Wikipedia Policies Limit Editing Haymarket Bombingmorning Edition 7 Min 34 Sec

Wikipedia Policies Limit Editing Haymarket Bombing Morning Edition [7 min 34 sec] October 3, 2012

Voters who tune in to the debates Wednesday night will likely six weeks. Can you tell me what they talked about, if there was hear conflicting interpretations of history. What truly happened no evidence?" And I wasn't able to answer her question. in the past is the subject of an ongoing, loud debate in politics. Steve Inskeep delves into this topic with college professor INSKEEP: There it is. The first of the moments in this story where Timothy Messer-Kruse, who attempted to make a small edit on an accepted truth suddenly seems problematic. Wondering what the Wikipedia page for the 1886 Haymarket Square riot in was discussed at the trial, the professor found the trial Chicago. transcript.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: When President Obama and Mitt Romney MESSER-KRUSE: And I began reading through it, and it was debate tonight, many people will ask if their claims are true. almost as if I was reading about a different event than the one Each one has already been asking that about the other side. that I had learned about myself, in my own academic training.

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: They will try to distract you and INSKEEP: Apparently, there was evidence presented against the sometimes - how do I put this nicely? They will just fib. defendants. You could still question the fairness of the trial - just not in such a simple way. Messer-Kruse published academic MITT ROMNEY: The president tends to - how shall I say it? - say articles on his findings, and soon arrived at another of those things that aren't true. moments where the truth became problematic.

INSKEEP: How shall I say this? Politicians do sometimes misplace OK, so you repeat this thing that's been repeated for more than the facts like travelers who left their luggage at home, but it can a century; your student says, what? You decide to look it up. You also be hard to establish what the truth is. That's the subject of discover these documents. You have the documents in front of our next story - which is not strictly about politics, but is about you. Then you go to Wikipedia. What did Wikipedia say about facts that became intensely political. It's about the seemingly this incident? simple effort to record some basic facts on Wikipedia, the Internet encyclopedia. Our story begins in the class of a college MESSER-KRUSE: Well, Wikipedia did say such things as, no professor, Timothy Messer-Kruse. evidence was presented at the trial. And so I simply tried to make a small edit. TIMOTHY MESSER-KRUSE: Well, it does. I was teaching my labor history class - well, by now, 10 years ago. INSKEEP: He wanted to change the online encyclopedia, which anybody can edit as long as they follow Wikipedia's rules. INSKEEP: At Bowling Green State University, where his class covered a landmark moment in American labor history. MESSER-KRUSE: I think my original attempt to change Wikipedia stood for maybe a minute or two before it was reversed, and I MESSER-KRUSE: I was teaching about the very famed Haymarket was scolded for violating some of Wikipedia's five pillars of affair of 1886 in Chicago, in which anarchists and labor activists policy. had a meeting at Haymarket Square, and police intervened; and someone threw a bomb, and that explosion led to the death of a INSKEEP: Other Wikipedia users, elsewhere in the world, number of police officers. rejected his changes. He tried to change the facts again and again, but the text was changed back. Sure, he had original trial INSKEEP: You hear, in the professor's voice, how familiar this all documents - primary sources, as they're called; the raw material is; material that's been known for generations. Police made of history. But Wikipedia rules don't easily accept them. The arrests for the bombing, and eight men were tried and convicted rules demand a secondary source - for example, something of taking part in the conspiracy. published in a book.

MESSER-KRUSE: This was all in my labor history book, and the STEVEN WALLING: Wikipedia, just like any encyclopedia, is a text we were using said that the trial was a real travesty of collection of distilled knowledge. justice because no evidence was presented, linking any of the defendants to the bombing. And when I taught that class, a INSKEEP: That's what we heard when we called Steven Walling, student raised her hand and said, "Professor, that's very who works for the foundation that runs Wikipedia. interesting, but the textbook also says that the trial went on for

Copyright © 2012 National Public Radio. For personal, noncommercial use only. See Terms of Use. For other uses, prior permission required. WALLING: We're not going to rely on individuals; we're going to INSKEEP: Do you think that some historians were wishing away rely on what reliable, published media have said about a the evidence? particular issue. MESSER-KRUSE: Yes, I do. INSKEEP: So Wikipedia is not a compilation of things that have happened in the world. It is a compilation of what reasonably INSKEEP: And here's the point where it becomes clear that we're reputable people have said has happened in the world. talking about something much bigger than edits on Wikipedia. History is a powerful force, a powerful political force. Even as WALLING: Yes. We do not rely on what exact, individual people scholars quietly refine their understanding of the past, politicians say, just based on their own credibility. loudly use it. You hear this every time a modern-day presidential candidate mentions Abe Lincoln, or what the Founding Fathers INSKEEP: Wikipedia does not want to risk some rogue editor really intended when they wrote the Constitution. If their claims inventing history. It relies, instead, on the passion of thousands seem dubious, their critics push back. of people who constantly check on each other, and cite books or articles in their footnotes. It's a fairly sophisticated version of PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: Nobody ever tells you what really crowd-sourcing - many people providing bits of information. And happened. Here's what happened. that process really bothered labor historian Timothy Messer- Kruse. He believed he had the truth - primary documents - right INSKEEP: That's one thing former President Bill Clinton was in his hands, but couldn't shove it past the crowd. trying to do, in his famous Democratic convention speech this past summer. Our constant debate over the facts is of great MESSER-KRUSE: Wikipedia is built on this philosophy that interest to David Weinberger, who wrote a book called "Too Big knowledge is best expressed when it's accumulated from many, to Know." many individuals. And, you know, it goes all the way back to Francis Galton - the great statistician's observation at an English DAVID WEINBERGER: There isn't universal agreement about county fair, that all the individuals who guess the weight of a anything - about anything on the planet, especially in areas like prize ox in some lottery, when you constructed the mean of all history. their estimates, it actually was the weight of the ox. The problem, though, is that with history, we don't have direct INSKEEP: For centuries, the historical record has been a constant experience of the past. work of interpretation, of editing and improving and hopefully, bending the story a little more toward fidelity; a little like that INSKEEP: Not everybody has the same, perfect view of the ox. process of thousands of people editing and re-editing Wikipedia.

MESSER-KRUSE: Or even a view of it at all. I mean, the ox died WEINBERGER: The truth is not a solitary thing that stands by 125 years ago. itself, the way ink gets pressed on paper; but rather, it comes from human sources. They're fallible, and they are subject to INSKEEP: Messer-Kruse has since published two books laying out different points of view and thus, they are in disagreement. And his view of the Haymarket bombing trial, but he still has trouble so it seems to me that Wikipedia, in its form - and the Web with the crowd. His books are outnumbered by other histories. overall - is a better representation of what human truth is like. Other historians have focused on some brutal facts that even Messer-Kruse has to concede. For example, the defendants were INSKEEP: Even if not everybody can be completely satisfied. not actually accused of throwing the bomb, but of conspiring in a Timothy Messer-Kruse, who challenged the common view of the plot; and they were tried amid great public hysteria. Messer- Haymarket trial, still cannot say that he has prevailed. If you look Kruse has a minority point of view. at the Wikipedia entry for the Haymarket affair, it includes his view now, below the quotes of other historians. Generations MESSER-KRUSE: There certainly was a lot of pressure, I think, to from now, his version of history might well become accepted venerate the memory of men who had already been celebrated truth. For now, he has to be satisfied that at least, he's part of as labor's heroes. the argument.

INSKEEP: Prominent people really did think the trial was unfair, Copyright © 2012 National Public Radio. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to National Public Radio. This transcript is at the time. And Messer-Kruse contends, that allowed provided for personal, noncommercial use only, pursuant to our Terms of Use. Any other use requires generations of writers to... NPR's prior permission. Visit our permissions page for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by a contractor for NPR, and accuracy and availability MESSER-KRUSE: Excuse, or wish away, a lot of the other may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of NPR's programming is the audio. evidence linking some of these men to a conspiracy.