New South Wales

Legislative Council

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Fifty-Sixth Parliament First Session

Thursday, 22 November 2018

Authorised by the Parliament of

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Visitors ...... 1635 Visitors ...... 1635 Documents ...... 1635 Department of the Legislative Council ...... 1635 Reports ...... 1635 Department of Parliamentary Services ...... 1635 Reports ...... 1635 Motions ...... 1635 Dyslexia Awareness Month ...... 1635 Brent Kelly Foundation...... 1635 Marsden Law Group Fiftieth Anniversary ...... 1636 Cruise Ship Terminals...... 1637 Tribute to the Hon. Murray Wilcox ...... 1637 Asbestos Disease Awareness Day ...... 1637 Bangalow Agricultural Show 121st Anniversary ...... 1638 Spark Festival...... 1638 New England North West Xplorer Services ...... 1638 Tropical Fruits Inc. Support Group ...... 1639 Documents ...... 1639 Tabling of Papers ...... 1639 Committees ...... 1641 Standing Committee on Law and Justice ...... 1641 Report: Adequacy and Scope of Special Care Offences ...... 1641 Select Committee on Electricity Supply, Demand and Prices in New South Wales ...... 1642 Report: Electricity Supply, Demand and Prices in New South Wales ...... 1642 Visitors ...... 1644 Visitors ...... 1644 Documents ...... 1644 Auditor-General ...... 1644 Reports ...... 1644 Petitions...... 1644 Petitions Received ...... 1644 Business of the House ...... 1645 Postponement of Business ...... 1645 Special Adjournment ...... 1645 Special Adjournment ...... 1645 Announcements...... 1645 Maurice Rebecchi, Manager of Chamber and Support, Retirement ...... 1645 Business of the House ...... 1645 Order of Business ...... 1645 TABLE OF CONTENTS—continuing

Personal Explanation ...... 1645 Private Members Business ...... 1645 Bills ...... 1646 Crimes Legislation Amendment Bill 2018 ...... 1646 Messages ...... 1646 Workers Compensation Legislation Amendment (Firefighters) Bill 2018 ...... 1646 Second Reading Speech ...... 1646 Second Reading Debate ...... 1650 Visitors ...... 1651 Visitors ...... 1651 Bills ...... 1651 Workers Compensation Legislation Amendment (Firefighters) Bill 2018 ...... 1651 Second Reading Debate ...... 1651 In Committee ...... 1657 Adoption of Report ...... 1663 Third Reading ...... 1663 Budget ...... 1664 Budget Estimates and Related Papers 2018-2019 ...... 1664 Members ...... 1664 Valedictory Speech ...... 1664 Visitors ...... 1669 Visitors ...... 1669 Questions Without Notice ...... 1669 Department of Planning and Environment Mining Titles Unit ...... 1669 State Infrastructure ...... 1669 Department of Planning and Environment and Ridgelands Resources ...... 1670 Cancer Research...... 1670 Primary Industries ...... 1671 Sydney Opera House...... 1672 Department of Planning and Environment and Ridgelands Resources ...... 1672 Early Childhood Education ...... 1673 Department of Planning and Environment Mining Titles Unit ...... 1674 The Nationals Advisers ...... 1674 Jobs Growth and Cost of Living ...... 1674 Coastal Integrated Forestry Operations Approval ...... 1675 Minister for Roads, Maritime and Freight Ministerial Staff ...... 1675 Primary Industries ...... 1676 Gambling Addiction...... 1676 Minister for Roads, Maritime and Freight Ministerial Staff ...... 1677 Early Childhood Education ...... 1678 Deferred Answers ...... 1679 Matthew Fraser Comments ...... 1679 TABLE OF CONTENTS—continuing

Silica Exposure ...... 1679 Child Prostitution ...... 1680 Waternsw ...... 1680 Manufactured Stone Industry Safety Standards ...... 1681 Regional Cultural Fund ...... 1681 NSW Koala Strategy ...... 1681 Prisoner Escort Duties...... 1681 Bills ...... 1681 Government Sector Finance Legislation (Repeal and Amendment) Bill 2018 ...... 1681 Saint Paul's College Bill 2018 ...... 1681 Public Works and Procurement Amendment (Enforcement) Bill 2018 ...... 1681 Health Legislation Amendment Bill (No 3) 2018...... 1681 Crimes (Administration of Sentences) Legislation Amendment Bill 2018 ...... 1681 Conveyancing Legislation Amendment Bill 2018 ...... 1681 Combat Sports Amendment Bill 2018 ...... 1681 Assent ...... 1681 Committees ...... 1681 Legislation Review Committee...... 1681 Report: Inquiry into the Operation of the Legislation Review Act 1987 ...... 1681 Documents ...... 1682 Tabling of Papers ...... 1682 Condolences ...... 1682 Death of the Hon. Elizabeth Ann Symonds, AM, A Former Member of the Legislative Council .. 1682 Motions ...... 1690 Seasonal Felicitations...... 1690 Bills ...... 1703 Workers Compensation Legislation Amendment (Firefighters) Bill 2018 ...... 1703 Messages ...... 1703 In Committee ...... 1703 Adoption of Report ...... 1708 Messages ...... 1708 Adjournment Debate ...... 1708 Adjournment ...... 1708 Wellbeing Indicators ...... 1708 Brent Kelly Foundation...... 1709 Gender Equity ...... 1710 Forestry Industry ...... 1711 Northern Beaches Hospital ...... 1711 Western Sydney Infrastructure ...... 1712 Liberal Party Preselection ...... 1713 Bills ...... 1714 Children and Young Persons (Care and Protection) Amendment Bill 2018 ...... 1714 TABLE OF CONTENTS—continuing

National Disability Insurance Scheme (Worker Checks) Bill 2018 ...... 1714 Returned ...... 1714 Adjournment Debate ...... 1714 Adjournment ...... 1714

Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1635

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

Thursday, 22 November 2018

The PRESIDENT (The Hon. John George Ajaka) took the chair at 10:00. The PRESIDENT read the prayers. Visitors VISITORS The PRESIDENT: I welcome to the public gallery members of the Aboriginal Languages Establishment Advisory Group, including Aunty Maureen Sulter, Chris Ingrey, Aunty Diane McNaboe, Rhonda Ashby and Clark Webb. I also welcome Haylene Grogan and colleagues from Aboriginal Affairs. They are guests of the Hon. in her capacity as Minister for Aboriginal Affairs. Documents DEPARTMENT OF THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Reports The PRESIDENT: I table the annual report of the Department of the Legislative Council for year ended 30 June 2018. The Hon. : I move: That the report be printed. Motion agreed to. DEPARTMENT OF PARLIAMENTARY SERVICES Reports The PRESIDENT: I table the annual report of the Department of Parliamentary Services for year ended 30 June 2018, together with the Financial Performance report of the Parliament of New South Wales. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: That the report be printed. Motion agreed to. Motions DYSLEXIA AWARENESS MONTH The Hon. (10:02): I move: That this House notes that: (a) October marks Dyslexia Awareness Month and aims to raise public awareness of the most common form of learning difficulty; (b) dyslexia occurs on a continuum from mild to severe and according to the Australian Dyslexia Association, approximately 10 per cent of the school age population has dyslexia; (c) individuals with dyslexia have trouble with reading and spelling despite having the ability to learn; and (d) despite individuals with dyslexia being capable of learning, 80 per cent of people still associate dyslexia with low intelligence. Motion agreed to. BRENT KELLY FOUNDATION The Hon. (10:02): I move: (1) That this House notes that: (a) on Saturday 10 November 2018 the Brent Kelly Foundation held its inaugural Hearts Under the Stars foundation dinner at the Australian National Maritime Museum; Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1636

(b) the Brent Kelly Foundation is a registered national charity formed to raise community awareness and access to lifesaving defibrillators; (c) the charity was formed by Lisa Kelly after her husband, Brent Kelly, aged 39, passed away, suffering a severe heart attack at Fagan Park in May 2017 whilst running with his daughter; (d) the foundation's purpose is to collaborate, assist and influence all levels of government, the health, medical and research industry, corporations and community groups to allow every Australian access to a lifesaving defibrillator when having a sudden cardiac arrest; (e) more than 33,000 Australians experience cardiac arrest every year and early access to CPR and defibrillation can influence survival rates by up to 75 per cent; (f) more than 2,500 defibrillators will be installed at community sporting facilities over the next four years as part of the $4 million Local Sport Defibrillator Grant Program introduced by Minister Ayres in 2017; and (g) those who attended as special guests included: (i) the Hon. Shayne Mallard, MLC, representing the Minister for Sport, and Minister for Western Sydney, Mr , MP; (ii) Mr John Alexander, MP, Federal member for Bennelong; (iii) Professor Jamie Vandenberg, Victor Chang Cardiac Research Institute; (iv) Mrs Lisa Kelly, Brent Kelly Foundation; and (v) Ms Juleen McTaggart, Brent Kelly Foundation. (2) That this House congratulates: (a) the Minister for Sport on the Local Sport Defibrillator Grant Program, which is saving lives; and (b) the Brent Kelly Foundation for its work in raising public awareness, and its advocacy for wider availability of defibrillators. Motion agreed to. MARSDEN LAW GROUP FIFTIETH ANNIVERSARY The Hon. SHAYNE MALLARD (10:03): I move: (1) That this House notes that: (a) on Friday 10 November 2018 the Marsdens Law Group celebrated its fiftieth anniversary at the Cube, Campbelltown; (b) Marsdens was established by the late John Marsden, AM, in a newly emerging township of Campbelltown in 1968; (c) Marsdens went on to grow along with the rapidly growing suburbs of south-west Sydney and the Macarthur region; (d) Marsdens early partners were John Marsden, AM, Jim Marsden, AM, and former New South Wales Premier John Fahey, AC; (e) John Marsden, AM, was a strong social justice advocate campaigning for homosexual law reforms, affordable access to justice and Indigenous recognition; (f) today Marsdens is still proudly deeply rooted in the south-western communities with five offices and 180 personnel; (g) the Marsdens Law Group is now headed by Jim Marsden, AM, who received a medal of the Order of for his community work in 2013; (h) Marsdens has always exemplified the Marsden family philosophy of giving back to the community and care for social justice; (i) Marsdens has had a long partnership with the Western Sydney University supporting students through the John Marsden Memorial Awards; and (j) attending the fiftieth anniversary function were over 500 guests including: (i) Ms , MP, Premier; (ii) the Hon. Shayne Mallard, MLC; (iii) Mr Chris Patterson, MP, member for Camden; (iv) Mr Stuart Ayres, MP, Minister for Western Sydney, Sport and WestConnex; (v) Senator the Hon. , Foreign Minister; (vi) Mr , MP, member for Campbelltown; (vii) Councillor , Mayor, Camden Council; Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1637

(viii) Councillor Lara Symkowiak, Camden Council; and (ix) Councillor Wendy Waller, Mayor, Liverpool Council. (2) That this House congratulates the Marsdens Law Group on its success and on celebrating its fiftieth anniversary. Motion agreed to. CRUISE SHIP TERMINALS The Hon. Dr PETER PHELPS (10:03): I move: (1) That this House notes: (a) the opposition of The Greens member for Balmain to the location of a cruise ship terminal at White Bay; and (b) the opposition of The Greens New South Wales to the creation of a new cruise ship terminal at Botany Bay. (2) That this House calls on The Greens New South Wales to make up their minds. Motion agreed to. TRIBUTE TO THE HON. MURRAY WILCOX The Hon. (10:04): I move: (1) That this House notes: (a) the loss sustained to the State of New South Wales by the death on 8 November 2018 of the Hon. Murray Wilcox, AO, QC; (b) that Murray Wilcox: (i) was a committed environmentalist, serving as President of the Australian Conservation Foundation from 1979 to 1984; (ii) was an outstanding advocate and jurist; (iii) served as a Justice of the Federal Court of Australia from 1984 to 2006; (iv) served as an additional judge of the Supreme Court of the Australian Capital Territory from 1983 to 2006; and (v) served as Chief Justice of the Industrial Relations Court of Australia from 1994 until his retirement in 2006. (c) that as a Justice of the Federal Court, Murray Wilcox handed down the important Noongar Native Title decision in Bennell v State of Western Australia [2006] FCA 1243: (i) which provided an insight into Aboriginal life, including laws and customs, around the time of settlement in 1829, and into the beginning of the last century; (ii) which found that laws and customs governing land throughout the whole Single Noongar Claim, taking in Perth, and many other towns in the greater south-west, were those of a single community; and (iii) that the claimants shared a language and constituted a united society which had continued to exist despite the disruption resulting from being forced off their land and dispersed to other areas as a result of white settlement and later government policies. (d) that Murray Wilcox was appointed an Officer of the Order of Australia in the 2010 Australia Day Honours "for service to the law as a judge and a law reform commissioner, particularly in the areas of environmental, native title and industrial law". (2) That this House also notes that, since his retirement from judicial office, Murray Wilcox was active on a range of Aboriginal justice and environmental issues, and was a well-respected and active member of the community in the Blue Mountains. (3) That this House extends its condolences to the family of Murray Wilcox: his wife, Christina, his daughters, Felicity and Anne, his daughter-in-law, Wendy, son-in-law David, his grandchildren, Philip, Kate, Joanna, Elijah, Mahalia, Tallis and Griffin, and his great-grandson, Sonny. Motion agreed to. ASBESTOS DISEASE AWARENESS DAY The Hon. (10:04): I move: (1) That this House notes that: (a) Friday 30 November 2018 is Asbestos Disease Awareness Day; (b) asbestos-related diseases include mesothelioma, asbestosis, pleural plaques, and lung cancer, which may take between 10 and 50 years to appear after exposure to asbestos fibres; and Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1638

(c) over 700 Australians are diagnosed with mesothelioma every year. During 2016 there were 672 deaths caused by mesothelioma in Australia, with the five-year survival rate being as low as 6 per cent. (2) That this House: (a) congratulates the Asbestos Diseases Foundation of Australia on their vitally important work on raising awareness of the dangers that exposure to asbestos fibres can do to an individual, and for providing support to those suffering from asbestos related diseases and their families, especially Barry Robson, their long- serving and very passionate president; and (b) supports the Asbestos Disease Awareness Day on Friday 30 November 2018. Motion agreed to. BANGALOW AGRICULTURAL SHOW 121ST ANNIVERSARY The Hon. BEN FRANKLIN (10:05): I move: (1) That this House notes that: (a) the Bangalow Agricultural and Industrial Society held their 121st show on Friday 16 and Saturday 17 November 2018; (b) the theme for this year's show was "chooks", and focused on celebrating everything poultry related; and (c) this year's show included ride-on-mower races, horseriding musical chairs, the Tart of the Show cooking competition, the Marathong—a sausage carrying, thong wearing relay—and the team stockman ironman events. (2) That this House acknowledges and thanks the Bangalow Agricultural and Industrial Society President, Ivan Ewert, and all of the Show Society Committee for their hard work and dedication to making the Bangalow Show an incredible success. Motion agreed to. SPARK FESTIVAL The Hon. NATALIE WARD (10:05): I move: (1) That this House notes that: (a) on 29 October 2018 the Spark Festival 2018, Ageless: Innovation at any Age, was held at Stone and Chalk, Sydney Startup Hub; (b) a major organiser of the event, Dr Abby Bloom, is also a founding board member of the Longevity Innovation Hub, a not-for-profit institution with the sole purpose of placing policies before all three levels of government that will lay the foundations of a prosperous and compassionate society that ages well; (c) the 2018 Spark Festival connects people, ideas and resources across the entire innovation and start-up ecosystem and is inclusive of start-ups, small business, corporates, government universities, students and investors, to celebrate Australian innovation; and (d) the event was attended by Ms Kathryn Greiner, AO, also a forum member of the Longevity Innovation Hub and the Hon. Natalie Ward, MLC, representing the Minister for Innovation and Better Regulation, Mr , MP. (2) That this House acknowledges: (a) the keynote speaker, Stuart Anderson of Flow Hive, Byron Bay, who, with his son Cedar Anderson, invented the Flow Hive system; (b) the State Government's support as one of the sponsors of the Spark Festival 2018; and (c) the Berejiklian Government's support and investment in innovation and entrepreneurship that helps drive economic growth for New South Wales. Motion agreed to. NEW ENGLAND NORTH WEST XPLORER SERVICES The Hon. SCOT MacDONALD (10:05): I move: (1) That this House notes that: (a) Friday 23 November 2018 marks the 25 year anniversary of the return of passenger trains to Armidale and Moree with the inauguration of the Xplorer service in 1993, during the time of Bruce Baird as Minister for Transport and in response to the concerns of affected communities; and (b) in 2003 the Armidale community had to fight once again in a campaign led by The Friends of the Northern Railway group to keep its trains, in response to the Parry Report when it proposed to cut regional train services. (2) That this House acknowledges: Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1639

(a) that a small ceremony will be held on Friday 23 November 2018 to mark the 25 year anniversary of the return of Xplorer services to Armidale and Moree; and (b) the work of Mr Matthew Tierney, founding president of Friends of the Northern Railway, and members of that organisation for their dedication to the cause of maintaining and improving rail transport services in the New England North West. Motion agreed to. TROPICAL FRUITS INC. SUPPORT GROUP Ms (10:07): I move: (1) That this House notes that: (a) Tropical Fruits Inc., established in 1988, is the premier lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer [LGBTIQ] community group in the Northern Rivers, New South Wales, that holds regular events for diverse members and guests; (b) Fresh Fruits is an initiative of the Tropical Fruits Inc. and is supported by ACON Northern Rivers and headspace Lismore; (c) the group aims to provide support for LGBTIQ young people through social support, education programs, mentoring and community awareness initiatives; and (d) Tropical Fruits New Year's Eve festival brings thousands of visitors and tens of millions of dollars to Lismore and surrounding areas and: (i) is kicked off by a parade through Lismore City which is an opportunity for bonds to be formed between the LGBTIQ community and the larger community; (ii) sees thousands of hours from hundreds of volunteers help create one of the safest and most profitable community events in this State; and (iii) is an event that attracts national and international visitors to the Lismore area during an otherwise quiet time for local businesses. (2) That this House congratulates Tropical Fruits Inc. on its inspiring work supporting the diverse and inclusive Northern Rivers community. Motion agreed to. Documents TABLING OF PAPERS The Hon. : I table the following papers: (1) Annual Reports (Departments) Act 1985—Reports for year ended 30 June 2018: Department of Family and Community Services—volumes 1, 2 and 3 Department of Transport, incorporating Transport for NSW—volumes 1 and 2 Fire and Rescue NSW Ministry of Health, together with financial statements—volumes 1, 2 and 3 New South Wales Crime Commission NSW Police Force Office of Environment and Heritage, incorporating Heritage Council of New South Wales Office of Local Government Office of the NSW Rural Fire Service Office of the NSW State Emergency Service. (2) Annual Reports (Statutory Bodies) Act 1984—Reports for year ended 30 June 2018: Biodiversity Conservation Trust Centennial Park and Moore Park Trust Chief Investigator of the Office of Transport Safety Investigations Crown Entity Financial Statements, incorporating financial reports of: Electricity Retained Interest Corporation – Ausgrid (ERIC-A) Fund Electricity Retained Interest Corporation – Endeavour (ERIC-E) Fund Restart NSW Fund Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1640

Social and Affordable Housing NSW Fund Environment Protection Authority Health Care Complaints Commission Jenolan Caves Reserve Trust Lord Howe Island Board New South Wales Treasury Corporation NSW Environmental Trust NSW Trains—volumes 1 and 2 Parramatta Park Trust Rail Corporation New South Wales—volumes 1 and 2 Roads and Maritime Services, volumes 1 and 2 Royal Botanic Gardens and Domain Trust SAS Trustee Corporation, together with financial statements State Transit Authority of New South Wales—volumes 1 and 2 Sydney Trains—volumes 1 and 2 Trustees of the Parliamentary Contributory Superannuation Fund Western Sydney Parklands Trust Zoological Parks Board of New South Wales, trading as Taronga Conservation Society Australia. (3) Annual Reports (Departments) Act 1985 and Annual Reports (Statutory Bodies) Act 1984—Reports for year ended 30 June 2018: Report of the Treasury for year ended 30 June 2018 including reports of: Alpha Distribution Ministerial Holding Corporation Electricity Assets Ministerial Holding Corporation Electricity Transmission Ministerial Holding Corporation Electricity Retained Interest Corporation Endeavour Energy (ERIC-E) Corporation Electricity Retained Interest Corporation Ausgrid (ERIC-A) Corporation Epsilon Distribution Ministerial Holding Corporation Liability Management Ministerial Corporation Ministerial Holding Corporation Ports Assets Ministerial Holding Corporation State Rail Authority Residual Holding Corporation. (4) Annual Reports (Statutory Bodies) Act 1984 and Health Practitioner Regulation National Law (NSW)—Report of Health Professional Councils Authority volumes 1, 2 and 3 for year ended 30 June 2018, incorporating: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Health Practice Council Chinese Medicine Council of New South Wales Chiropractic Council of New South Wales Dental Council of New South Wales Medical Council of New South Wales Medical Radiation Practice Council of New South Wales Nursing and Midwifery Council of New South Wales Occupational Therapy Council of New South Wales Optometry Council of New South Wales Osteopathy Council of New South Wales Paramedicine Council of New South Wales Pharmacy Council of New South Wales Physiotherapy Council of New South Wales Podiatry Council of New South Wales Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1641

Psychology Council of New South Wales. (5) Annual Reports (Statutory Bodies) Act 1984 and State Insurance and Care Governance Act 2015—Report of Insurance and Care NSW for year ended 30 June 2018 together with financial statements. (6) Energy and Utilities Administration Act 1987—Report of NSW Climate Change Fund for year ended 20 June 2018. (7) Health Administration Act 1982—Report of New South Wales Health Foundation for year ended 30 June 2018. (8) Health Practitioner Regulation National Law (NSW)—Reports for year ended 30 June 2018: Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency National Health Practitioner Ombudsman and Privacy Commissioner. (9) Health Services Act 1997—Report of Administrator of the National Health Funding Pool for year ended 30 June 2018. (10) Independent Pricing and Regulatory Tribunal Act 1992—Report of Independent Pricing and Regulatory Tribunal entitled "Maximum prices to connect, extend or upgrade a service for metropolitan water agencies – Sydney Water Corporation – Hunter Water Corporation – Central Coast Council: Final Report – Water", dated October 2018. (11) National Health Reform Act 2011 (Cth)—Reports for the year ended 30 June 2018: Administrator National Health Funding Pool National Health Funding Body. (12) Rail Safety National Law (NSW)—Report of Office of the National Rail Safety Regulator for year ended 30 June 2018. (13) State Owned Corporations Act 1989—Reports for year ended 30 June 2018: Essential Energy Forestry Corporation Hunter Water Corporation Landcom (trading as Urbangrowth NSW) Port Authority of New South Wales (comprising Newcastle Port Corporation, Port Kembla Port Corporation, and Sydney Ports Corporation) Sydney Water Corporation (trading as Sydney Water). (14) Report of Family and Community Services entitled "Child Deaths 2017 Annual Report: Learning to improve services". I move: That the reports be printed. Motion agreed to. Committees STANDING COMMITTEE ON LAW AND JUSTICE Report: Adequacy and Scope of Special Care Offences The Hon. NATALIE WARD: I table the report of the Standing Committee on Law and Justice entitled "Adequacy and scope of special care offences", dated 22 November 2018, together with transcripts of evidence, submissions, correspondence and answers to questions on notice relating to the inquiry. I move: That the report be printed. Motion agreed to. The Hon. NATALIE WARD (10:08): I move:

That the House take note of the report. I thank honourable members for their participation in the inquiry and their contribution to a somewhat complex report. The standing committee was asked to inquire into and report on aspects of the adequacy and scope of special care relationships recognised under the special care offence in section 73 of the Crimes Act 1900. The committee inquired into special care offences that ensure the safety of school students in relation to their application to teachers and other school workers, including whether the offences should apply to a school worker who is a volunteer, a schoolteacher who is a recent ex-student of the school and when a special care relationship existed but is no longer in effect. The question was asked whether it should apply to youth workers and workers in youth residential care settings. The committee was asked to inquire into whether the offences should be expanded to recognise adoptive parents and adopted children as special care relationships and whether additional safeguards should be included, including, but not limited to, the Director of Public Prosecutions sanction of prosecutions. Finally, the committee was asked to inquire into whether the incest offence in section 78A of the Crimes Act should be expanded to Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1642

include adoptive relationships. The terms of reference were referred to the committee by the Attorney General on 14 February 2018. The committee received 17 submissions and held one public hearing. The special care offence aims to protect young people from being abused by someone in a position of authority. In recent years, the offence has been amended to ensure the protection extends to capture a wide array of special care relationships. This presented the committee with some complexity about the school setting. A wide array of views and concerns were offered by stakeholders, which presented the committee with a challenging exercise as we grappled with the implications of the offence in many different situations and contexts. However, one consistent concern expressed by stakeholders was that the current wording of the offence is broad and has the potential to capture innocent relationships that were not intended to be deemed as criminal conduct. The inquiry worked through those serious matters and examined the issues closely and carefully, considering the overarching intention of the legislation. The recommendations that committee members eventually came to is that we were keen to clarify that under section 73 of the Crimes Act the offender is in a position of authority in the relationship. We recommended that amendments be made to clarify that aspect, among others, and to ensure that the reference to any other person employed at the school includes unpaid workers such as volunteers. I take this opportunity to thank the Hon. , the Hon. David Clarke, the Hon. , the Hon. and Mr for their contributions to this inquiry. It was a challenging task. I thank them for their engagement. In particular, I thank the committee staff, who tolerated me with a number of drafts of the report to ensure that we got it right. Their patience was very much appreciated considering the parliamentary schedule at this time of year. Debate adjourned. SELECT COMMITTEE ON ELECTRICITY SUPPLY, DEMAND AND PRICES IN NEW SOUTH WALES Report: Electricity Supply, Demand and Prices in New South Wales The Hon. PAUL GREEN: I table the report of the Select Committee on Electricity Supply Demand and Prices in New South Wales entitled "Electricity supply, demand and prices in New South Wales", dated 18 November 2018, together with the transcripts of evidence, tabled documents, correspondence, answers to questions on notice and supplementary questions relating to the inquiry. I move: That the report be printed. Motion agreed to. The Hon. PAUL GREEN (10:12): I move: That the House take note of the report. As Chair, I am pleased to present the committee's report into electricity supply, demand and prices in New South Wales. Rising electricity prices and the future security of our energy supply are pressing issues for the people of this State. Electricity is like shelter and water: It is an essential service. It keeps the lights on in our homes and powers our businesses. The select committee was established on 10 August 2017 to inquire into and report on electricity supply, demand and prices in New South Wales, particularly the reasons for the recent large increases in the price of electricity; the impact of deregulation on electricity prices in 2014; the alleged collusion and price gauging by energy retailers; the effectiveness or impact of any current regulatory standards and guidelines; options for future government oversight and responsibilities in the reregulation of electricity prices; the adequacy of planning to meet future electricity demand, including high-efficiency, low-emission coal technology as well as the use of nuclear, gas, solar and wind energies, and energy storage through batteries, pumped hydro, hydrogen and improved transmission between regions; the adequacy of programs to assist low-income earners, pensioners and senior cardholders to afford electricity as well as the impact of additional fees, such as late payment fees, including energy bills; and any other related matter. First and foremost, I thank the committee members: my Deputy Chair, the Hon. , Mr , the Hon. Ben Franklin from The Nationals, the Hon. John Graham from the Labor Party, the Hon. Taylor Martin from the Liberal Party, the Hon. Adam Searle from the Labor Party, and the Hon. Matthew Mason-Cox from the Liberal Party. The Hon. : Independent. The Hon. PAUL GREEN: Yes, . The committee received 247 submissions and conducted six public hearings at Parliament House in Sydney. The committee also conducted site visits to the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation's Lucas Heights facility, Origin Energy's Eraring Power Station, Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1643

Beijing Jingneng Clean Energy, Goldwind Australia's Gullen Range Wind Farm and Gullen Solar Farm, Snowy Hydro's Tumut 3 Power Station and Colongra Power Station, Cape Byron Power's Condong Power Station— The Hon. Ben Franklin: Hear, hear! The Hon. PAUL GREEN: I note the interjection from the alleged new member for Ballina. And, lastly, we visited Neoen's Hornsdale Power Reserve, South Australia. We used a lot of energy travelling around the State. The select committee made four findings. First, it can be reasonably argued that the significant market share held by a small number of vertically integrated firms has undermined competition in the New South Wales electricity market. Secondly, certain retailers may have leveraged the complexity of the electricity market to charge higher prices to disengaged consumers. Thirdly, as New South Wales transitions to greater reliance on intermittent renewable energy generation, new investment in baseload power is required to undergo secure, reliable and affordable energy. The New South Wales Government will need to look at all options for maintaining baseload power well into the long term, and this includes the possibility of public investment in coal-fired power stations in the future. Fourthly, the proposed change to the national electricity rules to require at least three years notice of closure for large generators will help better manage the retirement of existing coal-fired generators as they reach the end of their life by providing the market with sufficient time to replace the energy production that is being withdrawn. It is concerning to note that the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission [ACCC] provided evidence that showed that over the past 10 years retail electricity prices in New South Wales have increased by 52 per cent in real terms. During the inquiry the committee received evidence about the impact that price rises are having on consumers. The committee heard that some people are literally sitting in the dark because they cannot afford to pay their electricity bills. I was personally concerned by the comments of one witness who had been forced to cut back on food for her family in order to pay her power bills. It is also concerning that the ACCC found that electricity retail profit margins are very high in New South Wales compared to other jurisdictions, both domestically and internationally. Continued rises in electricity prices mean that households may have to cut back or forgo other important services, which is concerning. Meanwhile, businesses faced with rising energy costs will likely be constrained in their ability to invest, offer employment and support economic growth. This situation is unacceptable and unsustainable. Continued energy cost increases are like a slow-leaking artery that will eventually be fatal, sadly not only to businesses but also to the New South Wales economy and its employment growth. As a State, we are blessed to have a variety of sources that can be used to generate electricity. However, despite our abundance of energy sources, it is clear that the electricity market is not working in the best interests of all consumers. The electricity market is very complex and continues to be confusing, with a variety of factors that determine the final price paid by consumers. The committee found that certain retailers may have leveraged the complexity of the electricity market to charge higher prices. The report contains a number of recommendations that seek to minimise this complexity and empower consumers to get their electricity at the cheapest price possible. The State's electricity market is in an undeniable period of transition. Renewables such as wind and solar will, over time, provide us with an increasing amount of our electricity. Additionally, the State's existing coal-fired power stations are scheduled to retire over the next decade and a half. It is critical that as this occurs, energy security, reliability and affordability must be ensured. Households, small businesses and farmers must not be thrown under the bus as a consequence of a lack of long-term planning and investment. Rural and regional families are already at a great disadvantage, paying as much as 25 per cent more for their electricity than their city counterparts. The New South Wales Government must take an active role in helping to develop the necessary policy and infrastructure plan to secure our long-term energy future. People must be put before profits. In the short term, baseload power must be guaranteed to help minimise price spikes and supply issues. It is for this reason that the committee has recommended that the Department of Planning and Environment expedite the assessment of AGL's coal-fired Bayswater Power Station upgrade project. I believe that technology neutrality is imperative if the market is to develop energy generation further. The Government has a responsibility to ensure accessible, affordable and reliable energy above all things to the community—a community that is facing an increasing and unsustainable rise in its cost of living. Having a you-beaut, environmentally friendly, gold-standard electricity supply means nothing when you are struggling to put food on the table, pay the mortgage or rent and educate your kids. New South Wales has three vertically-integrated providers that control 86 per cent of the retail market and generate 82 per cent of the State's electricity. A market that is so concentrated clearly needs to be subject to stringent monitoring in order to ensure that consumers are paying a fair price for their electricity and not paying for super profits to be made. This report makes a number of recommendations to ensure that the Government adopts a more robust approach to market monitoring so that it has the information it needs to make better regulatory and policy decisions. I thank Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1644

the many participants in this inquiry who provided a submission and appeared before the committee. I also thank my colleagues on the committee for their commitment and hard work during the inquiry. I note specifically the hard work of the Hon. Adam Searle, who is very passionate and forthright about this issue. He questioned in a very pedantic way— The Hon. : Thorough. The Hon. PAUL GREEN: Thorough; I withdraw "pedantic". The Hon. Adam Searle cross-examined the providers in a very thorough way—his legal experience shone through. He was most helpful and his membership of the committee will be very good for the people of New South Wales. I thank the secretariat staff: Alex Stedman and Alex Cobb, who are in the gallery, and Brett Rodgers. They not only did a fantastic job with this report but also made sure that we found great places to be fed and watered. The Hon. Rick Colless: What happens on committee tours stays on committee tours. The Hon. PAUL GREEN: That is right—it stays on committee tours. I thank Alex Stedman, who did an incredible amount of work to ensure that this was a great report. It will be a legacy report on which both major parties will base their policy. The New South Wales public will have to be told before the March 2019 election exactly what they will get. Will they get renewable energy, coal-fired energy or nuclear power? This report provides an opportunity for both major parties to set their policies for the people of this State. I have travelled the State and I am convinced that people want base price electricity; they do not want the bells and smells. The people of New South Wales want to compare their electricity prices and choose their provider—just like when they shop in Woolworths and see the base price for goods. They want to know that they are getting a fair product for a fair price. I was blessed to lead this important inquiry for New South Wales. Members of the Christian are dinner-table politicians. Mortgage stress and unemployment pressures on families who are doing it tough are dinner-table topics. This report will prompt many discussions around the dinner table. In 2019 energy policy will decide who governs New South Wales. I thank the secretariat staff for their consistent work in supporting the committee. As this is probably my last speech for this term, I thank everyone for their commitment to me and to my chairmanship of various committees. I commend the report to the House. Debate adjourned. Visitors VISITORS The PRESIDENT: I welcome to the public gallery students and teachers from the Junee Public School, who are guests of Stephanie Cooke, who is the member for Cootamundra in the Legislative Assembly. Documents AUDITOR-GENERAL Reports The CLERK: According to the Public Finance and Audit Act 1983, I announce receipt of the Auditor- General's Financial Audit Report entitled "Justice 2018", dated November 2018, received out of session and authorised to be printed this day. Petitions PETITIONS RECEIVED Newcastle Bus Services Petition calling on the Government to return bus services linking Beaumont Street, Newcastle, and nearby communities, received from the Hon. Scot MacDonald. Makarrata Commission and Treaty Petition stating that sovereignty over the land that forms Australia was never ceded and that dispossession of the land has had many negative impacts on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, and calling on the Government to commit to establishing a Makarrata Commission and a treaty with Aboriginal people, received from Mr David Shoebridge. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1645

Business of the House POSTPONEMENT OF BUSINESS The Hon. ADAM SEARLE: I move: That Business of the House Notice of Motion No. 1 be postponed until Tuesday 26 February 2019. Motion agreed to. Special Adjournment SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: That this House at its rising today do adjourn until Tuesday 26 February 2019 at 2.30 p.m. unless the President or, if the President is unable to act on account of illness or other cause, the Deputy President, prior to that date, by communication addressed to each member of the House, fixes an alternative day or hour of meeting. Motion agreed to. Announcements MAURICE REBECCHI, MANAGER OF CHAMBER AND SUPPORT, RETIREMENT The PRESIDENT: Today is the final sitting day for several honourable members. It is also the last sitting day for someone who has worked in the Legislative Council longer than anyone else here, with the exception of Reverend the Hon. . The Manager of Chamber and Support, Mr Maurice Rebecchi, began working as an attendant in the Legislative Council on 2 April 1984—following his father, who worked as an attendant in the other place, the Legislative Assembly. In December, Maurice will end his 34 years of working with the Legislative Council as the longest-serving employee in the department. I personally thank him for his years of service to all members and wish him and his family all the best in his retirement. At the end of the sitting today, I invite all members and Chamber and Support staff to join me in my office to farewell Maurice. Business of the House ORDER OF BUSINESS The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: (1) That Government Business take precedence of General Business this day. (2) That at the conclusion of consideration of Government Business Orders of the Day this day, Private Members' Business item No. 2653 standing in the name of Ms Sharpe relating to the passing of Elizabeth Ann Symonds, AM, take precedence until adjourned or concluded. (3) That at the conclusion of proceedings on Private Members' Business item No. 2653 this day, a Minister be called on to move a motion of thanks—seasonal felicitations. Motion agreed to. Personal Explanation PRIVATE MEMBERS BUSINESS The Hon. GREG DONNELLY (10:32): By leave: Honourable members would be aware that for some years now the order of private members' business for Thursdays has been arrived at through negotiations involving party Whips and crossbench representatives. This is done on Wednesday evenings. The following morning at the end of formalities the Government Whip moves and has endorsed by the House a motion listing in the agreed order the private members' business items to be dealt with that day. This structured way of dealing with private members' business, as I think all will agree, has been a vast improvement on the bad old days where members sometimes lost hours of precious time arguing and voting on whose item should get priority. The Hon. Dr Peter Phelps, who, as Government Whip at the time, successfully argued for and then helped entrench this practice, deserves acknowledgement and thanks for bringing about this sensible order to our Thursdays. Last Wednesday evening the agreed procedure was followed. The following day the usual motion was moved in the House and agreed to, listing the order of private members' business items to be dealt with that day. As Deputy Opposition Whip, I made my usual informal inquiries over the course of the morning and during lunch to confirm that things were on track and it was steady as she goes. My inquiries confirmed that this was the case. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1646

Following question time last Thursday, without notice a motion was moved to suspend standing orders to call on forthwith a private members' business item. As honourable members would be aware, the specific item on the previous evening, and by an agreed motion of the House that morning, had been settled as the fourth private members' business item to be dealt with that day. As Deputy Opposition Whip, my reaction to what I saw as an act of turning the House's agreed practice on its head was immediate and robust. The Hon. Don Harwin: Point of order: While I probably am entitled to withdraw leave, I will not do so at this point. I will say that if this is a personal explanation by leave, according to the forms of the House it should not include matters of debate. It should be limited to purely a personal explanation. The Hon. GREG DONNELLY: To the point of order: This is all context leading to the specific statement I wish to now make. The PRESIDENT: Personal explanations come under Standing Order 88, which states: When there is no question before the House a member may, by leave of the House, make a personal explanation. The subject of a personal explanation may not be debated. To summarise rulings made by past Presidents, leave must be sought by the member; the member can only proceed if leave is granted; and leave can be withdrawn at any time. A personal explanation may not be debated; a personal explanation cannot be made during the course of the debate; a personal explanation is used to explain any matter which reflects upon a member in a personal way; a personal explanation should not be used to explain matters on behalf of any other person; and a personal explanation cannot be utilised to explain or reply to a matter upon which a member has been misquoted or misunderstood. That type of explanation is covered by Standing Order 89. I understand that the Hon. Greg Donnelly is setting a foundation. I strongly recommend that the member proceed to the reason for his personal explanation. He has laid enough foundation. The Hon. GREG DONNELLY: As Deputy Opposition Whip, my reaction to what I saw as an act of turning the House's agreed procedure on its head was immediate and robust. I did not take a backward step. Hansard shows that an exchange of words took place between me and the President during the division count. The exchange led to the President calling me to order for the first time. I wish to place on record my apology for that exchange. My demeanour and tone were meant to be directed more at what had just happened in the House, not at the President directly. The position and role of the President of this House is important and must be respected by all members at all times. I thank the House for its consideration. The PRESIDENT: I thank the honourable member for his apology. Bills CRIMES LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL 2018 Messages The PRESIDENT: I report receipt of a message from the Legislative Assembly agreeing to the Legislative Council's amendments to the abovementioned bill. WORKERS COMPENSATION LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (FIREFIGHTERS) BILL 2018 Second Reading Speech The Hon. DAVID CLARKE (10:38): On behalf of the Hon. Don Harwin: I move: That this bill be now read a second time. I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in Hansard. Leave granted. I am pleased to introduce the Workers Compensation Legislation Amendment (Firefighters) Bill 2018. The reforms in this bill are designed to simplify the process for firefighters with specified cancers to make claims for workers compensation, by establishing a presumptive right to workers compensation benefits. Similar presumptive legislation has been introduced in many other jurisdictions across Australia and around the world. The New South Wales Government has given careful consideration to the design and operation of this legislation. We have studied what has transpired in other jurisdictions and we have consulted widely to come up with the best possible proposal for New South Wales firefighters. This bill introduces a presumptive right in the workers compensation scheme for firefighters diagnosed with one of 12 prescribed cancers. The bill reduces the existing evidentiary burden placed on a firefighter to prove the work-relatedness of illnesses. This is achieved by reversing the onus of proof for firefighters who meet the minimum service period for each cancer type. This bill puts the onus on the workers compensation insurer to prove that the firefighter's cancer diagnosis was not work related. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1647

Unlike some other jurisdictions, this bill does not impose a 10-year post service limit on making a claim or receiving a cancer diagnosis. Firefighters who are diagnosed more than 10 years after leaving active service will retain their right to the presumption. This is in line with the presumptive legislation introduced by the Western Australian Government in 2013. Objectives of the bill I now turn to the objectives of the bill. The Workers Compensation Legislation Amendment (Firefighters) Bill 2018 seeks to:  simplify the process for making a claim for workers compensation by employed and volunteer firefighters diagnosed with any of the specified cancers. It does this by establishing presumptive rights to workers compensation benefits unless proven otherwise by an insurer;  specify 12 types of primary cancers to which the presumption applies;  specifies minimum qualifying periods of service for firefighters and volunteer firefighters; and  allows for eligible firefighters to receive the benefit of the presumptive provisions for the specified cancers diagnosed on and from 27 September 2018—the date on which the Government announced its intention to introduce this bill. Details of the bill I now turn to the details of the bill. Schedule 1 introduces a new section into the Workers Compensation Act 1987. Section 19A titled "Presumptions relating to certain cancers—firefighters". Section 19A (1) provides that for an eligible firefighter, it is presumed that the disease—one of the specified cancers—was contracted in the course of their firefighting employment and that the employment was a substantial contributing factor. It is important to note that this provision ensures that the presumption will operate within the existing legislative framework— including the application of section 261 of the Workplace Injury Management and Workers Compensation Act 1998, which sets time limits for making a claim after the date of injury or death, and allows the State Insurance Regulatory Authority to approve claims beyond those limits. An eligible firefighter is defined by section 19A (2) and 19A (3) as a worker who, at any time, has been engaged in firefighting employment for the qualifying service period and contracted one of the 12 specified cancers. These cancers and the qualifying service periods are as follows:  Primary site brain cancer—5 years  Primary leukaemia—5 years  Primary site breast cancer—10 years  Primary site testicular cancer—10 years  Primary site bladder cancer—15 years  Primary site kidney cancer—15 years  Primary non-Hodgkin lymphoma—15 years  Multiple myeloma—15 years  Primary site prostate cancer—15 years  Primary site ureter cancer—15 years  Primary site colorectal cancer—15 years  Primary site oesophageal cancer—25 years Firefighting employment includes employment in one or more of the following agencies:  The NSW Rural Fire Service [RFS]  Fire and Rescue NSW  National Parks and Wildlife Service, under the Office of Environment and Heritage  The Forestry Corporation of NSW, and  Sydney Trains The presumption applies if, in the course of that employment, the eligible firefighter has performed activities including: extinguishing, controlling or preventing the spread of fire; bushfire hazard reduction work, within the meaning of the Rural Fires Act 1997;and the provision of training or instruction in the performance of extinguishing, controlling or preventing the spread of fire or bushfire hazard reduction work which resulted in exposure to smoke or other hazards of a fire. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1648

This is defined in the bill as "firefighting activities" and makes it clear that this Government recognises that firefighters, who are exposed to the hazards of a fire, are at a greater risk of contracting the specified cancers. Section 19A (4) provides that the presumption does not apply if the total aggregate period of firefighting employment is less than the qualifying service period. The qualifying service period is specified in schedule 4 of the 1987 Act for each cancer, and is counted from the date of injury. Section 19A (5) provides that, for eligible firefighters, periods of service as an official volunteer firefighter can be counted toward the total qualifying service period. However, if a firefighter has served as both an eligible paid firefighter and also as a volunteer firefighter at the same time, the periods are not to be added together. In addition, eligible firefighters are able to count periods of interstate or overseas firefighting service undertaken as part of their employment with any of the prescribed New South Wales government agencies towards the qualifying service period. Section 19A (6) clarifies that for the purposes of section 261 of the Workplace Injury Management and Workers Compensation Act 1998, only the date of injury as defined will be considered. This is regardless of when the eligible firefighter or other person making the claim became aware of the injury. The "date of injury" means the date of diagnosis by a medical practitioner or, in the case of a terminal cancer condition, the date of death, whichever occurs first. The existing requirements under section 261 of the 1998 Act to make a claim within six months of the date of injury, still apply. However, section 261 does allow for claims to be made beyond six months where the failure to make a claim was caused by ignorance, absence from the State or other reasonable cause. Where a claim is made more than three years after the date of injury, the claim can be accepted by an insurer with approval from the State Insurance Regulatory Authority. Section 261 will continue to apply to all workers compensation claims across the scheme. Schedule 2 - Volunteer Firefighters Schedule 2 of the bill introduces a new section into the Workers Compensation (Bush Fire, Emergency and Rescue Services) Act 1987. Section 10A titled "Presumptions relating to certain cancers—firefighters" applies the presumption to the relevant provisions of that Act. For example, section 10A (1) applies the presumption to the specified cancers contracted in the course of fighting a bushfire. A bushfire is defined under section 5 of the Workers Compensation (Bush Fire, Emergency and Rescue Services) Act 1987 as: A bush or grassfire or a fire in or at any building or a fire of any kind at which a rural fire brigade or fire fighter operates or is in attendance for the purpose of its control or suppression. This ensures that the presumption applies to any fire attended to by a rural fire brigade or firefighter, which may include a fire in a building or a fire at the scene of a motor vehicle accident. Section 10A (1) links the presumption to the injuries which are covered by the Workers Compensation (Bush Fire, Emergency and Rescue Services) Act 1987 under section 7 (1) and 7 (3) which apply to personal injury received by a fire fighter arising out of or in the course of fighting a bush fire, or to an injury being a disease which is contracted, aggravated or exacerbated or which deteriorates in the course of doing anything referred to in subsection (1) or (2) if the doing of that thing was a contributing factor. Section 10A provides eligible volunteer firefighters with the same presumptive provisions as eligible employed firefighters under the new section 19A of the Workers Compensation Act 1987. This ensures that those who volunteer to serve our communities as an official firefighter as per part 5 of the Workers Compensation (Bush Fire, Emergency and Rescue Services Act 1987) are provided the same protections as eligible employed firefighters. This includes all eligible volunteer firefighters with the NSW Rural Fire Service, but does not include Fire and Rescue NSW community fire unit volunteers as they do not meet the definition of "official firefighter". The provisions will operate in the same manner as the principal legislation and should be considered in the same way as I have described the operation of those provisions. Retrospective and Transitional application The Government announced the presumptive legislation for firefighters on 27 September 2018 and the bill applies the new provisions from that date. Under transitional provisions of this bill, an eligible employed firefighter or eligible volunteer firefighter who is diagnosed between 27 September 2018 and the commencement of this legislation, is taken to have a date of injury which is the same as the commencement date. This allows impacted firefighters to obtain the benefit of the presumption under this bill. Further, the transitional provisions allow an eligible firefighter who has previously claimed for one of the 12 specified cancers to make a further claim with the benefit of the presumption. The right to make a further claim exists where the original claim was denied by an insurer on the basis that the firefighter was unable to prove the work relatedness of the cancer. The bill also makes a general amendment to part 20 of schedule 6 to make it clear that regulations of a savings and transitional nature relating to an amending Act can take effect on a date earlier than the assent date of the amending Act if the regulations provide for an earlier date. It will only apply to transitionals relating to amending Acts made after 27 September 2018.This amendment is consistent with other savings and transitional regulation making powers in the workers compensation legislation. I note that the private member's bill introduced by the member for Fairfield on 27 September 2018 contained a provision to introduce unlimited retrospectivity. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1649

This approach is inconsistent with every other jurisdiction in Australia and is likely to add a significant financial burden to the RFS and Fire and Rescue NSW. Funding for these two agencies is raised through a combination of contributions from the Emergency Service Levy, council rates and consolidated revenue. The lion's share of funding for RFS and Fire and Rescue NSW operations comes from the collection of emergency service levies [ESL], which is attached to home and contents and associated insurance policies. The Fire Brigades Act 1989 specifies the breakdown of funding as follows: ESL, 73.7 per cent, council levies, 11.7 per cent and consolidated revenue, 14.6 per cent. Actuarial analysis of the introduction of full retrospectivity of these provisions suggests that it would add in excess of $350 million in additional claims liability. That represents a $101 hike on ESL charges and a $16.50 hike on council levies. The Government does not support this proposal—not just because of the cost but also because it is inconsistent with the application of the presumptive provisions in every other jurisdiction in Australia. It is worth running through the history of what has happened across Australia. In 2011, the Commonwealth and Australian Capital Territory Labor Governments introduced presumptive legislation with no retrospective application and no coverage for former firefighters. In 2013, the South Australian Labor Government introduced its presumptive legislation with no retrospective application and limited coverage for former fighters, limited to 10 years post-employment. This was amended in 2014. In 2013, the Western Australian Coalition Government introduced its presumptive legislation with no retrospective application. This was amended in 2016. Similar to our proposal, the Western Australia law extends the presumption to former firefighters, with no post-employment time limit on diagnosis. In 2013, the Labor Government introduced its presumptive provisions with no retrospective application and a 10-year post-employment time limit on diagnosis, which was subsequently amended in 2017. In 2015, the Northern Territory Labor Government introduced its presumptive legislation, with very limited retrospectivity—back to July 2011, the date that the Commonwealth legislation commenced—and a 10-year post-employment time limit on diagnosis. In 2015, the Queensland Labor Government introduced its presumptive provisions for firefighters with no retrospective application and no post-employment time limit on diagnosis—consistent with our proposal and the laws which apply to Western Australian firefighters. In 2017, the Victorian Parliament voted down a bill which included presumptive provisions for firefighters. The bill also included a controversial merger proposal which led to the Victorian Opposition and other non-Government members of Parliament voting against the bill. The Victorian Liberal Opposition has subsequently confirmed that if elected in November, it will introduce standalone presumptive legislation for firefighters. Consultation I thank Minister Grant, Minister for Police, and Minister for Emergency Services, for his strong advocacy and support for this reform. I also acknowledge the work of his Chief of Staff, Greg Dezman; throughout the consultation and development of the bill. Significant consultation has been undertaken in the development of this bill and the Government thanks Stephen O'Malley, David Heslop and Bronwyn Jones from the NSW Rural Fire Service; Alison Donohue and Malcolm Connellan from Fire and Rescue NSW; Sam Toohey and Bronwyn Weir from the Office of Emergency Management; Ray Fowke and Brian Leahy from the Office of Environment and Heritage (NSW National Parks and Wildlife Service); Luke McIlroy and Jennifer Ringor from the Forestry Corporation of NSW; and Matthew Coates from Sydney Trains. I also acknowledge the advocacy and contribution of the Rural Fire Service Association, in particular its President, Ken Middleton; Acting Chief Executive Officer [CEO], Trevor Anderson; and Commercial Services Manager, Sharon Ellicott. I also acknowledge the contribution of the immediate past CEO, Bernard Cox. The RFS Association has demonstrated exceptional professionalism and integrity throughout the consultation process. Our volunteer firefighters are lucky to have such a great membership organisation representing them and standing up for their interests. I understand that the Fire Brigade Employees Union [FBEU] does not support the Government's bill on the basis that it does not apply full retrospectivity. I put on the record that both Minister Grant and Minister Dominello have, separately, met with the Fire Brigade Employees Union State Secretary, Leighton Drury, to discuss matters relating to presumptive legislation. The FBEU was also involved in the stakeholder consultation process led by the State Insurance Regulatory Authority [SIRA] over the past 12 months. Finally, I thank Carmel Donnelly, Darren Parker, Petrina Casey, Matthew Barrett, Elizabeth Dixon and Gavin Robertson, from SIRA, along with the SIRA board and the Secretary of the Department of Finance Services and Property, Martin Hoffman, for their contribution to this reform. I also acknowledge the contribution of Minister Dominello's ministerial staff, Matt Dawson, Jane Standish and Tom Green, as well as the department Liaison Officer, Emily Wooden. Summary This bill ensures that our firefighters who work to protect the lives and property of the people and community of New South Wales are provided with protection and support when they and their families need it most. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1650

I call upon the members opposite to support this bill. I commend the bill to the House. Second Reading Debate The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ (10:39): I speak on behalf of the New South Wales Labor Opposition on the Workers Compensation Legislation Amendment (Firefighters) Bill 2018. I begin by acknowledging New South Wales firefighters for their tremendous efforts over the years and their unwavering dedication as career firefighters in New South Wales. The bill has come before this House following the introduction of Labor's Workers Compensation (Firefighters' Presumptive Rights to Compensation) Bill 2018. New South Wales firefighters have lobbied the New South Wales Liberal-Nationals Government for years seeking the introduction of legislation to provide greater support to firefighters who have contracted occupational diseases. Every time the Government failed to act and the firefighters' concerns were pushed to the side. Following the gutting of the workers compensation scheme by this Government, the inaction on firefighters' concerns came as little or no surprise to many who were in need. The New South Wales Labor Opposition has been working closely with stakeholders for more than a year to develop legislation that would provide firefighters the legislative protections they so direly need and deserve. Despite claims that the Government had been working on legislation for more than a year, in consultation with stakeholders, a number of key stakeholders do not appear to have been consulted in the lead-up to the introduction of this bill, nor was their input sought prior to the bill being drafted. The first anyone heard about this bill was when the Government expedited the drafting of its version of the legislation following Labor's announcement in the lead-up to the introduction of Labor's Workers Compensation (Firefighters' Presumptive Rights to Compensation) Bill 2018. NSW Labor invited bipartisan support for the bill and welcomed the Government to work with Labor to introduce legislation that would protect and support firefighters who develop occupational diseases. Rather than working together towards a common goal, the Government concluded that it would instead take the low road and vote down Labor's legislation. What sets our sides apart when it comes to the protections of firefighters throughout New South Wales is that those of us in NSW Labor are not afraid to get stuck in and to give it our all to ensure that firefighters are appropriately supported. The New South Wales Labor Opposition will support the legislation before us today, as we on the Labor side are not opposed to putting partisan politics aside in order to get things done. New South Wales firefighters deserve the best possible protections and should be supported, with no strings attached, should they contract an occupational illness. The primary purpose of this bill is to provide protections for all firefighters across New South Wales who have contracted an occupational disease throughout their career. Unfortunately, the legislation before us today falls short of that objective as it will protect only firefighters who have been diagnosed with an occupational disease from 27 September 2018 onwards. Any firefighter who contracted an occupational disease and was diagnosed before 27 September 2018 will not have the presumed protections set out in this bill while it remains in its current form. That is why NSW Labor will seek to move amendments to allow for a six-month amnesty period for firefighters to make claims under this legislation. The amnesty period will ensure firefighters who contracted an occupational disease prior to the 27 September 2018 cut-off date as prescribed in this bill will not be unfairly discriminated against as a result of this Government's short-sighted selfishness, all because it wants to save a buck. The amnesty period would allow firefighters six months to lodge a claim following the commencement of this legislation and provide at least some retrospectivity to the men and women who should not have their illnesses discounted as a result of an arbitrary date set by this Government. Throughout Australia there is a history of legislative protections for firefighters and the introduction of presumptive legislation. It is imperative that New South Wales introduce similar protections for our firefighters and it is our duty to ensure that the legislation being introduced provides sufficient coverage to ensure everyone in need will be protected by the bill before us today. There are two key differences between the bill before us today and the bill Labor recently introduced. The bill before us today will protect only firefighters who contract an occupational disease and are diagnosed after 27 September 2018 whereas Labor's bill provided retrospective protections to ensure every legitimate compensation claim could be reasonably supported. Furthermore, Labor's bill provided protections for individuals to lodge a claim up to 10 years following the cessation of their service, as is similar with other jurisdictions. The bill before us contains no such provision. The Minister for Finance, Services and Property has detailed in his second reading speech in the other House that the Government does not support the retrospective protections on the grounds that it would add in excess of $350 million in additional claims liabilities and would be inconsistent with the other States and Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1651

Territories. Those of us who sat on the Legislative Council Standing Committee on Law and Justice and have constantly reviewed this Government's changes to the Workers Compensation Act and compulsory third party insurance scheme know how inaccurate is any figure this Government comes up with in regard to what it anticipates will be additional claims. So I think we can take that with a grain of salt. However, it always comes down to money with those on the Government side of the Chamber rather than doing what is right. They spend billions of dollars on stadiums but are happy to throw the firefighters of New South Wales to the wolves. Going back 20 to 30 years, our firefighters' protective clothing and safety equipment was nowhere near the quality or safety rating of that used today. For those such as Mr Gino Debono, who is now 55 years old and who has dedicated 30 years to the service of Fire and Rescue NSW, that is a problem of which he is all too well aware. Gino was diagnosed with brain cancer in October 2015. He has undergone two invasive surgeries and 30 days of radiation therapy and is now thousands of dollars out of pocket as he is required to pay for his own treatment. Like all firefighters, Gino always wore his protective equipment, did things by the book and took every precaution available to keep himself as safe as possible. Evidently the safety equipment and protective clothing was insufficient and he has contracted an occupational disease, for which this bill would not support him. Mr David Proust is a fit 59-year-old who has always taken care of his health and wellbeing, especially during his 20 years of service to Fire and Rescue NSW. David has a grade 4 glioblastoma. This is a terminal brain cancer, which he has contracted throughout his dedicated career with Fire and Rescue. David has six children aged from 26 years to 37 years and he is the proud grandfather of 10. Two of David's sons are active serving firefighters with Fire and Rescue NSW. David thanks his lucky stars that the protective equipment and clothing provided nowadays is far superior to the equipment he was provided with back in the day. His children stand a better chance than he did. David was diagnosed with cancer in May 2018. He has undergone one invasive surgery and 30 days of radiation and is routinely undergoing chemotherapy, blood tests, MRIs and so much more. To date, the Proust family is more than $10,000 out of pocket for treatment, and who knows how much more moving forward. David has been given six months to five years to live as a result of the occupational disease he contracted over a 26-year career with Fire and Rescue. He too will not be protected under this bill: That is, of course, unless Government members agree to support the amendments Labor will be moving in this House today to provide a six-month amnesty period to support firefighters such as Gino and David who would otherwise be unfairly discriminated against. We on the Labor side are not asking for the world; we are only seeking due compensation and support for those who contracted an occupational disease while putting their lives on the line to keep all of us in New South Wales safe. I sincerely hope the members of this Chamber will consider doing the right thing and support Labor's amendments to provide a six-month amnesty period for firefighters affected by occupational diseases. I commend the bill to the House. [Business interrupted.] Visitors VISITORS The DEPUTY PRESIDENT (The Hon. Shayne Mallard): I welcome to the President's gallery former Clerk of the Parliament Mr Les Jeckeln. He is always welcome to the House; we like to see him here. Bills WORKERS COMPENSATION LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (FIREFIGHTERS) BILL 2018 Second Reading Debate [Business resumed.] Reverend the Hon. FRED NILE (10:48): On behalf of the Christian Democratic Party I speak in support of the Workers Compensation Legislation Amendment (Firefighters) Bill 2018. This bill reforms the workers compensation legislation to establish presumptive rights to compensation for firefighters in respect of 12 specified cancers and simplifies the claims process for firefighters by introducing a presumption that the cancer was caused by exposure to fire hazards in the course of their employment. Extensive research on the occurrence and prevalence of cancers among firefighters has identified a strong link between the activities of firefighting and 12 primary cancers. Consultation has been undertaken with Fire and Rescue NSW, the Rural Fire Service [RFS], National Parks and Wildlife Service and the Forestry Corporation. Similar legislation exists in all other Australian jurisdictions, with the exception of Victoria. The main reforms that will be implemented by the bill include a legislative framework to allow for a presumption that recognises the link between 12 types of primary cancers and the hazards of firefighting. Under the reforms, eligible injured firefighters who meet the minimum qualifying periods of service, whether as Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1652

employees or as official RFS volunteers, will not be required to prove the cancer was as a result of their work as firefighters. This would be presumed. New provisions will apply from the date of injury for eligible firefighters who were employed and/or volunteered, were engaged in firefighting activities and were diagnosed with one of the specified cancers. Qualifying periods are to be aggregated but any concurrent periods of paid and volunteer service are to be counted as a single period. New provisions are to apply from the date of injury, being the date of diagnosis or death from one of the prescribed cancers, whichever occurs first. This will apply to injury on or after 27 September 2018. The bill allows retrospective application prior to 27 September 2018 for eligible firefighters who made a claim that was denied by the insurer on the basis that the firefighter could not prove that their work was a substantial contributing factor to one of the specified cancers. The bill also will impose no post-service time limits on the application of the new provisions for a firefighter who meets the minimum qualifying periods of service to be diagnosed with a specified cancer. The Christian Democratic Party is pleased to support this legislation, which deals with the seriousness of cancer that has plagued brave individuals who have put their lives at risk to protect the community. Those who serve as firefighters should be appreciated on the same level as other emergency service personnel, such as police and medical responders. Due to the hazards that they routinely face, firefighters are exposed to conditions that can cause a variety of cancers and other major health defects. This bill amends the legal framework of the workers compensation regime to establish a presumptive right to compensation in relation to a list of 12 specific types of cancer. The bill also will streamline and simplify the claims process through which firefighters can apply for compensation. The drafters of this bill engaged in a consultation process with Fire and Rescue NSW, the Rural Fire Service, the National Parks and Wildlife Service and the Forestry Corporation. Under the proposed reform, firefighters will not have to prove that the cancers they are suffering were caused by their work as firefighters. New provisions under this bill concern employed and volunteer firefighters and will allow them to make an application from the date of injury. Concurrent periods of paid and volunteer service will be counted as a single period when determining whether or not an applicant satisfies the qualifying period for an application. If the minimum qualifying periods are met, there will be no post-service time limits for the application of the new provisions. I am heartened to see that there is also a retrospective element to this bill, namely, that firefighters who made an unsuccessful claim to their insurer prior to 27 September 2018 will not be left in the cold. The public, particularly firefighters, will be watching this bill closely. I have been contacted by firefighters and their families who have expressed their concern about how this law will operate. The Fire Brigade Employees Union has expressed concern about the extent to which the provisions in this bill are retrospective because they rightly fear that many firefighters who are presently suffering from cancers induced from their work will not be covered. In a statement online, the union referred to the example of one of its members from the Metropolitan North 2 zone. The union writes that this firefighter: ... our member in MN2 ... was diagnosed with brain cancer in May this year and given less than 12 months to live. The union states that this person will not be able to draw any solace from the passage of this bill. The union supports presumptive legislation such as is in this bill. However, it also strongly feels that the bill is not perfect and falls well short of other proposals. I received a letter from Sheenagh Blacklaw, who wrote to me about her husband, a New South Wales firefighter who rose to the rank of station master. Andie Blacklaw was diagnosed with a stage four malignant tumour and went through the gruelling process of fighting the cancer. Sheenagh Blacklaw recounted how the hospital became like a second home to the family as they stayed with Andie during this period: This long and painful battle encompassed the whole family, myself as his wife, his 3 young daughters, respective grandparents, friends and other members of our close knit community. Happily, Andie survived. But many suffer as he did and do not make it through. Sheenagh's story tells us that these cases impact a far broader section of the community than many people may appreciate. The pain and suffering affects the family, friends and the immediate community in which the firefighters work. It is a shame that we have not been able to assist these individuals and families who are in pain earlier. I note that there is a question about the retrospectivity of the bill. It seems to be the key concern of those who have contacted my office. I ask that the Government clarify this aspect of the bill, as there appears to be considerable confusion on this point. I am pleased to commend the bill, noting the questions I have raised in my contribution. Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE (10:56): On behalf of The Greens I speak to the Workers Compensation Legislation Amendment (Firefighters) Bill 2018. I say at the outset that there is no confusion by anybody who has read the bill as to how the retrospectivity works. I acknowledge and endorse the analysis done by the Opposition in that regard. The Greens support this legislation. For many years we have supported presumptive legislation Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1653

guaranteeing the right to workers compensation for firefighters in respect of a series of occupational cancers. My colleague has run this case robustly and consistently at a Federal level. I acknowledge the work he did to bring the first presumptive legislation in the Commonwealth Parliament in 2011, which has formed the model for a series of legislation in other States. The Commonwealth legislation provides protection for firefighters who are exposed on and from 4 July 2011. As each and every other jurisdiction has slowly moved, almost always after pressure from the firefighters unions in each State and Territory, the demand from the firefighters has been to at least make it retrospective to the date that the Commonwealth legislation provides. There is a reason why firefighters, their families and their loved ones are so passionate about having presumptive legislation in respect of occupational cancer. I note this information provided by the Cancer Council: Studies suggest firefighters are at an increased risk of developing certain types of cancer, owing to exposure to carcinogenic particles associated with fire-fighting. However, proving causation can be difficult, because exposure to these particles can vary, and there may be multiple exposures from more than one event. Most Canadian provinces have presumptive legislation, including 14 cancers—also include lung, pancreatic and skin cancer/melanoma. 24 US states have presumptive legislation, although it is neither uniform in the cancers addressed, nor the requirements necessary to receive compensation The Cancer Council points out that the Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment (Fair Protection for Firefighters) Bill 2011 was the first occasion when presumptive legislation was delivered in Australia. The Cancer Council then says, in reference to the 2011 Commonwealth committee's inquiry, which led eventually to that presumptive legislation: Given the quantity and quality of evidence presented, the committee is confident that a link between firefighting and an increased incidence of certain cancers has been demonstrated beyond doubt. Adjudication under workers' compensation requires an examination of the weight of evidence, not scientific certainty. These are quotes from stakeholders to that inquiry: Firefighters … are expected to take risks that would be unacceptable in any other work environment … They may be trained to manage these risks and to protect themselves, but the working environment cannot be made safe because they deal with situations that are inherently dangerous and may lose control. In the interest of society and as safety professionals, however, they essentially waive the right to refuse dangerous work and routinely accept the risk … it is … ultimately in society's interest to compensate for this risk because the work has to be done. I endorse those comments. The work of the Fire Brigade Employees Union [FBEU] in pressing for this presumptive legislation should not be in any way misunderstood. It has been a consistent, passionate and constant advocate for getting presumptive legislation in New South Wales, and it has a proud record of protecting its members' rights to workers compensation. For example, many members will recall the occasion when firefighters surrounded this Parliament. In 2012, when this Parliament was threatening to strip away their basic workers compensation rights— and we have seen the tragedy for workers in other industries as a result of those changes—they stood firm. In fact, in what I think was one of the most emblematic and powerful demonstrations of union solidarity, they undertook their first general strike since the 1950s, surrounded this Parliament and hosed us down as a situation of danger. They won the battle not only because of their solidarity but also because the community understands that we need to ensure that our firefighters are protected. They literally run into fire and danger, and it is our obligation to protect them. The FBEU recently said in one of its SitRep reports: Debate on the Government's Workers Compensation Legislation Amendment (Firefighters) Bill 2018 resumes when the NSW Parliament returns next week. SitRep 29 reported on the Bill's failure to cover firefighters who contracted cancer prior to 27 September this year but who had not yet submitted a workers comp claim – firefighters like our member in MN2 who was diagnosed with brain cancer in May this year and given less than 12 months to live. He is one of many serving firefighters who will not be covered by the Government's Bill, simply because he prioritised surgery and chemotherapy over some legal paperwork. That is the nub of the dispute between the Government, the Opposition and The Greens—and it looks like the Government, the Christian Democratic Party, the Opposition and The Greens—as to the extent to which we as a Parliament provide retrospective cover to firefighters who have contracted occupational cancers. We are talking about the most serious, life-threatening and appalling illnesses. We are talking about firefighters who have contracted brain cancer, leukaemia, bladder cancer, kidney cancer, non-Hodgkin lymphoma, colorectal cancer, oesophageal cancer and the like. If a firefighter has contracted one of those occupational cancers after exposure to hazards at work—and there are different periods of exposure for different cancers—for a period that pretty much every study has said is likely to lead to occupational causation, then they should be compensated, regardless of whether or not they develop the cancer before or after 27 September 2018. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1654

I note the Opposition's amendment seeks to increase retrospectivity and I have seen some government costings on this. It is suggested that the costs are in the order of hundreds of millions of dollars, but I find it difficult to understand on what basis that actuarial conclusion was made. We are talking about firefighters who die from a list of cancers. If there are that many firefighters who have these occupational diseases—the average claim is $350,000 or something—and it is going to cost the State something in the order of $200 million to $300 million, then we should acknowledge the scale of the problem and do everything we can to help them and ensure that they are given fair and just compensation. I will be frank: I think those costs are wildly inflated. I understand how actuarial costs happen, and I do not necessarily blame the Minister's office or the department for the results of the actuaries. Actuaries tend to look at the seven worst-case scenarios, put them all in a row and then add 30 per cent on top just to be sure. That is how they tend to come up with these kinds of figures. In many ways those kinds of assessments from actuaries prevent us from doing good public policy and appropriate legislation. The Greens have two amendments that we will be pressing in the event that the Labor Opposition amendment does not succeed. The first is to make the legislation retrospective for any cancer developed on and from 4 July 2011. This would make New South Wales consistent with the Commonwealth and the Northern Territory. Hopefully, it will set at least a basic national standard so that other States can move to that point. If we do not succeed on that, and I hope we do, then we will be seeking to move that a review be undertaken by the Law and Justice Committee. Twelve months of claims' experience will allow us to see how many of these cancers are coming forward. We will then have a far better handle on the actuarial costs. We can then get rid of these grossly inflated costs and actually move to ensure that we do provide fair and just retrospectivity for firefighters. To MN2, the firefighter who was diagnosed with brain cancer in May of this year, I say on the record, "I believe you should be compensated. The Greens believe you should be compensated and I would hope that a majority of members in this Chamber believe you should be compensated." The Hon. ROBERT BROWN (11:03): I make a brief contribution to the Workers Compensation Legislation Amendment (Firefighters) Bill 2018 on behalf of the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party. We will be supporting the bill, we will also support Labor's amendments to the bill and, if Labor's amendments do not get up, we will consider The Green's amendments. Labor has foreshadowed that its amendments relate to retrospectivity claims. This bill has bipartisan support. It should have had bipartisan support in the other place last month when the matter was brought before the House by the Opposition. It is perhaps regrettable that the Government opposed it for no other reason than politics. On that occasion the Government could have moved an amendment if it did not agree with the entirety of the bill and the matter could have been resolved much sooner. The Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party have always supported our full-time and voluntary firefighters; indeed, all our emergency workers. They perform an essential emergency service in our community, which in many cases is dangerous, and they deserve our support. Many of these people leave their homes in the morning, not really knowing whether they will return at night. They place their lives on the line when attending all types of emergency situations—whether it is a raging bushfire, entering into an asbestos-riddled building engulfed in flames or responding to a hazardous material spill or other contamination leakage. They do not complain, they just do their job. Every member of this Parliament has an obligation to make sure that the risks to which these people are exposed are identified and that they are protected. Research shows that firefighters are at a greater risk of developing certain types of cancers as a consequence of repeated and prolonged exposure to carcinogenic chemicals, with which they are regularly in contact in the course of their duties. Concerns have been raised with our office by the Fire Brigade Employees Union and affected individuals regarding retrospective legislation and access to compensation. Any firefighter who contracted an occupational disease and was diagnosed before 27 September 2018 will not have the presumed protection set out in this bill. It is an absolute disgrace that this Government would deny these people compensation because, according to the Government, it would not be fiscally possible to compensate everyone since it would cost $350 million. I remind members that when Mike Gallacher negotiated with us about the changes to the police insurance compensation scheme, at the end of the day the Government was all too ready to cough up an extra $300 million. I negotiated that directly with Mike Gallacher. There was no argument: $300 million. Mr David Shoebridge has pointed out that the figure of $350 million may or may not be correct. Think about that in the context of the money this Government is spending on bread and circuses. We are talking about people's lives. Of course, it would not be fiscally responsible for a Liberal-Nationals Government when the money could be spent rebuilding two perfectly functioning stadiums at a cost of $2 billion or more! It is probably not obvious because I am struggling to breathe. What about moving the Powerhouse Museum 20 kilometres down the road for a billion and a half dollars? Easy. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1655

The only thing that this Liberal-Nationals Government has shown fiscal responsibility for is fattening the pockets of lobbyists and their mates from the big end of town. We support this bill and we hope that the Government will show some compassion and support Labor's amendments. If it cannot stomach Labor's amendments, I hope it will support The Greens amendments that would provide our firefighters with the protections they need and deserve and bring this State into line with the Federal Government, as Mr David Shoebridge postulated. Why should members of this House be marked forever with the stamp of "miserable bastards" because we did not do our bit to bring this State into line with the Federal Government? I will not be part of that. We will support the amendments. The Hon. COURTNEY HOUSSOS (11:10): The purpose of the Workers Compensation Legislation Amendment (Firefighters) Bill 2018 is to establish presumptive rights to compensation under the Workers Compensation Act 1987 for firefighters in respect of certain cancers. The effect of the presumption is that the disease will be presumed to have been contracted in the course of the worker's firefighting employment. As it should, the bill places no time limits on the rights of firefighters to make a claim after they have finished their firefighting service. However, they will be required to have undertaken a minimum period of service prior to a cancer diagnosis. Importantly, the bill also includes voluntary service. Firefighting service will include firefighting activities within the Rural Fire Service, Fire and Rescue NSW, the National Parks and Wildlife Service, the Forestry Corporation of NSW and Sydney Trains. Federal legislation dealing with this matter passed unanimously in 2011. It is disappointing that New South Wales is one of the last States to address this very important matter. I congratulate the shadow Minister for the portfolios of Police, Emergency Services and Corrections, , on his work. It is disappointing that only a matter of weeks ago the Government voted down his private member's bill on this very issue in the other place and introduced this bill instead. This is likely to be the last piece of legislation that this Chamber deals with before the election. It is an incredibly important piece. That is why I wanted to place on record my acknowledgement of the heroic efforts of firefighters. They risk their lives each and every day running into burning buildings to save others. I doubt that I could do it. The bill addresses the longer term effects on their lives and on their families well after their service to the public has finished. It is an important statement from this Parliament to pass this significant piece of legislation before we rise for the election. Labor is proposing a range of amendments to improve the bill. Of course, I will be supporting them. It does not make sense that there is no level of retrospectivity. It will mean that a firefighter who has already contracted a cancer clearly related to his employment will not get treated in the same way because of a matter of days or a matter of hours. I will obviously be supporting the Labor amendments to correct that. I commend this incredibly important bill to the House. I place on record my sincere thanks to all firefighters from every agency in New South Wales whether they are working in a paid or voluntary capacity. They do incredibly important work for public safety in this State and we commend them for it. The Hon. DAVID CLARKE (11:14): On behalf of the Hon. Don Harwin: In reply: I am pleased to deliver a reply to the debate on the Workers Compensation Legislation Amendment (Firefighters) Bill 2018. I thank honourable members who contributed to the debate. As members heard, the bill will support the Government's commitment to providing the best possible protection and support for all of our firefighters and their families across New South Wales when they need it most. The bill establishes presumptive rights to workers compensation benefits for eligible firefighters in respect of 12 types of primary cancers. Those presumptive rights will apply to employed and official volunteer firefighters who meet the minimum qualifying periods of service. The amendments will simplify the process of making a claim for workers compensation by employed and volunteer firefighters diagnosed with any of the specified cancers. It does this by establishing presumptive rights to workers compensation benefits unless proven otherwise by an insurer. The amendments will specify 12 types of primary cancers to which the presumption applies and specify minimum qualifying periods of service for firefighters and volunteer firefighters. The amendments also will allow for eligible firefighters to receive the benefit of the presumptive provisions for the specified cancers diagnosed on and from 27 September 2018—the date on which the Government announced its intention to introduce the bill. Primarily, the bill will legislate presumptive provisions to recognise 12 types of primary cancers and their minimum qualifying service periods. The proposed amendments will apply to all firefighters, including those workers employed by the Office of Environment and Heritage, the National Parks and Wildlife Service and the Forestry Corporation of NSW who meet the definition of employed firefighter. Presumptive cover reverses the onus of proof for workers compensation claims, meaning that eligible firefighters who are diagnosed with certain primary cancers are assumed to have contracted the cancer through the course of their employment unless the employer can prove otherwise. To be very clear, the minimum qualifying service periods and the primary cancers are as follows: five years for primary site brain cancer and primary leukaemia; 10 years for primary site breast cancer and primary Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1656

site testicular cancer; 15 years for primary site bladder cancer, primary site kidney cancer, primary non-Hodgkin lymphoma, multiple myeloma, primary site prostate cancer, primary site ureter cancer, and primary site colorectal cancer; and 25 years for primary site oesophageal cancer. Secondly, the bill introduces a new section 19A to the 1987 Act that allows eligible firefighters to receive the benefit of the presumption. That presumption is that they are entitled to workers compensation when they are diagnosed with one of the specified cancers and the date of injury is on or after 2 September 2018. The eligible firefighter's date of injury will be the date of diagnosis or the date they die from one of the specified cancers, whichever occurs first. Thirdly, the bill allows for retrospective application prior to 27 September 2018 for eligible firefighters who made a claim before the commencement of the amendments and has their claim denied by the insurer on the basis that the firefighter could not prove that their work was a substantial contributing factor to the cancer. Fourthly, the bill allows for consecutive and broken periods of eligible service to be aggregated; however, concurrent periods of employed and voluntary service will be counted as only a single period of service. Finally, the bill will impose no post-service time limits on a firefighter to make a claim post service or employment. However, the existing provisions for making a claim will still apply in that the firefighter will be required to make a claim within the fixed time periods following diagnosis. As is currently the case, a longer period is available to all injured workers to make a claim with the approval of the State Insurance Regulatory Authority. It is important to note that the presumption provisions will operate within the existing workers compensation legislative framework. Extensive research in Australian and North American workers compensation jurisdictions identified and shows conclusively a link between the activities of firefighting and 12 primary cancers. Over the past 12 months, the Government has consulted closely with Fire and Rescue NSW and the Rural Fire Services, as well as other agencies which represent more than 100,000 current and former firefighters who will benefit from this reform. The amendments supported by those entities and other government agencies will introduce a presumptive right to workers compensation, unless proven otherwise by the liable employer. The amendments proposed in the Workers Compensation Legislation Amendment (Firefighters) Bill 2018 will ensure better support for all firefighters and their families in aiding their recovery and return to health. This demonstrates the Government's commitment to improving the workers compensation system for the people of New South Wales. We have studied what has transpired in other jurisdictions and we have consulted widely to come up with the best possible proposal for firefighters in New South Wales. In 2011, the Commonwealth and Australian Capital Territory Labor Governments introduced presumptive legislation with no retrospective application and no coverage for former firefighters. In 2013, the South Australian Labor Government introduced its presumptive legislation with no retrospective application and limited coverage for former firefighters limited to 10 years post-employment. This was amended in 2014. In 2013, the Western Australian Coalition Government introduced its presumptive legislation with no retrospective application. This was amended in 2016. Similar to our proposal, the Western Australian law extends the presumption to former firefighters with no post-employment time limit on diagnosis. In 2013, the Tasmanian Labor Government introduced its presumptive provisions with no retrospective application and a 10-year post-employment time limit on diagnosis which was subsequently amended in 2017. In 2015, the Northern Territory Labor Government introduced its presumptive legislation with very limited retrospectivity to July 2011, the date that the Commonwealth legislation commenced, and a 10-year post-employment time limit on diagnosis. In 2015, the Queensland Labor Government introduced its presumptive provisions for firefighters with no retrospective application and no post-employment time limit on diagnosis consistent with our proposals and the laws which apply to Western Australian firefighters. In 2017, the Victorian Parliament voted down a bill which included presumptive provisions for firefighters. The bill also included a controversial merger proposal which led to the Victorian Opposition and other non-government members of Parliament voting against the bill. The Victorian Liberal Opposition has subsequently confirmed that if elected in November it will introduce standalone presumptive legislation for firefighters. The bill ensures that our firefighters who work to protect the lives and property of people and the community of New South Wales are provided with the best protection and support when they need it most. Unlike some jurisdictions, the bill will ensure presumptive provisions are available to all eligible firefighters who are or were in a paid role or in a current or former volunteer role who meet the definition of an official firefighter, and through that employment for voluntary service they are or were engaged in firefighting activities and have been diagnosed with one of the specified cancers with a service period that meets the minimum qualifying period for the cancer. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1657

The bill does not place any time limits on making a claim after diagnosis following employment or service. The bill will allow for retrospective application prior to 27 September 2018 for eligible firefighters who made a claim and liability was on the basis that the firefighter could not prove that their work was a substantial contributing factor to the cancer. The bill seeks to prevent unnecessary delays by simplifying the claims process and acknowledges the extremely important role of all firefighters and official Rural Fire Service volunteers in New South Wales. Once again, I emphasise the importance of the bill that addresses and acknowledges the important role of all employed firefighters and official rural fire service volunteers across New South Wales. We acknowledge and applaud the dangerous and difficult work they do every day on behalf of our communities. This Government is committed to commencing the provisions contained in the bill. If the bill is approved we will work diligently to publish a proclamation regulation as soon as possible with a commencement date of 1 January 2019. This will align with the proposed commencement of the dispute resolution provisions contained in the Workers Compensation Legislation Amendment Act 2018 which will also commence on 1 January 2019. On my last day as a member of this Parliament I am honoured to commend, on behalf of this Government, an outstanding bill. I thank Minister Dominello for his efforts in leading these important reforms to the workers compensation system. I commend the bill to the House. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT (The Hon. Shayne Mallard): The question is that this bill be now read a second time. Motion agreed to. In Committee The CHAIR (The Hon. Trevor Khan): There being no objection, the Committee will deal with the bill as a whole. I have Opposition amendments on sheet C2018-163 and The Greens amendments on sheet C2018-179B. The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ (11:27): By leave: I move Labor Opposition amendment Nos 1 and 2 on sheet C2018-163 in globo: No. 1 Existing diseases Page 5, Schedule 1 [3] (proposed clause 1 (2) (a) and (b) of Part 19K of Schedule 6), lines 14–21. Omit all words on those lines. Insert instead: (a) a claim for compensation has been made under the relevant compensation Act in respect of the disease before the commencement of the eligibility provision, and liability for the claim has been denied on the ground that: (i) the disease was not contracted in the course of the worker's employment, or (ii) the employment was not a contributing factor, or a substantial contributing factor, to contracting the disease, or (b) a claim for compensation is made under the relevant compensation Act in respect of the disease within 6 months after the commencement of the eligibility provision. No. 2 Existing diseases Page 5, Schedule 1 [3] (proposed clause 1 (4) of Part 19K of Schedule 6), lines 25–34. Omit all words on those lines. Insert instead: (4) A further claim for compensation may be made under the relevant compensation Act in respect of an existing disease if the claim has been made, and liability for the claim has been denied, as referred to in subclause (2) (a) (whether or not the claim has also been the subject of proceedings in the Commission or a court). Labor is moving the amendments to create an amnesty period that will ensure firefighters who have contracted an occupational disease prior to the 20 September 2018 cut-off date as prescribed in the bill will not be unfairly discriminated against as a result of this Government's short-sightedness. The amnesty period will allow firefighters six months to lodge a claim following the commencement of this legislation to provide some retrospectivity to the men and women who should not have their illnesses discounted as a result of an arbitrary date set by this Government. The Parliamentary Secretary in his response to the second reading debate gave an astounding list that I assume he thought may help the Government's case, but it can only hurt it. He went through a list of jurisdictions where this legislation has been introduced, the most recent one being the July 2011 Federal legislation. We are now in 2018 and it has been eight years since legislation was introduced to give firefighters coverage. That shows how long this Government has taken to protect our firefighters. If the Government had acted immediately Mr Proust and Mr Debono would be covered by legislation Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1658

and we would not be having this debate today. South Australia introduced its legislation in 2011 and, according to the Hon. David Clarke, made it retrospective in 2013 so that everyone was covered and in that State Mr Proust and Mr Debono would have been covered. Western Australia introduced its legislation in 2015 and made it retrospective in 2016, and in that State they would have been covered. Tasmania introduced its legislation in 2013 and made it retrospective in 2017, and in that State Mr Proust and Mr Debono would have been covered. The Northern Territory introduced its legislation in 2015 and in that State both of those families would have been covered. The reality is that this Government has been dragged kicking and screaming to the table on this legislation. The firefighters whose cases I have cited have had to have invasive surgery. They do some of our most important work and are already $10,000 out of pocket. They are paying the price for this Government's indecision and short-sightedness. At the end of the day we know our firefighters carry out a risky job and, just like the police and soldiers on the front line, we ask them to do something that puts their lives at great risk. We should feel a responsibility to cover them. The Government said it will cost $350 million. I will set aside the fact that the Government has never been right with its figures in any of its reviews of insurance schemes. Recently under the compulsory third party [CTP] insurance scheme in nine months it has nearly collected— The CHAIR (The Hon. Trevor Khan): Order! The Hon. Lynda Voltz is close to being outside the leave of the amendments. When she touches on other areas she is moving away from the amendments. The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ: The Government's main argument to these amendments is costs. Its costing is $350 million. The CHAIR (The Hon. Trevor Khan): I am not arguing with that. The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ: An indication of the Government having wrong figures is the compulsory third party [CTP] scheme that ran for nine months. It took nearly $1 billion but so far it has only paid out $50 million. The Government argues about the tail but in reality if a scheme is changed to have only a six-month claim period there is no tail. The Government gets its figures wrong every time. Even if we accept that it will cost $300 million or $350 million that pales to insignificance compared to the way this Government has spent money on stadiums. It was a $600 million stadium that then escalated to a $1.6 billion stadium package and it is now a $2.45 billion loan, with $315 million in disruption costs alone at the Sydney Cricket Ground. That is before we add the cost of the Parramatta pool and the cricket stadium. The Minister for Sport has $400 million sitting there. The CHAIR (The Hon. Trevor Khan): I remind the Hon. Lynda Voltz that she should be addressing the amendments she moved. She is engaging in a valid argument for a contribution to the second reading debate but it does not address the appropriateness of the amendments that she has moved. I invite her to address the substance, as it were, of the amendments and the rationale for them. The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ: The amendments will allow a six-month amnesty to capture those people who are dying from a serious cancer, who have been undertaking invasive surgery and who have been given a life expectancy of 12 months to five years. They are out of pocket by having to pay for their own medical expenses. This Government says it cannot afford to cover them because it will cost $350 million. It is not unreasonable for people in the public to ask why the Minister for Sport has $400 million available for an indoor sport stadium in the central business district but the Government says in this Chamber it will not cover our firefighters who fight fires on the front line and who are now dying. It is about the Government's priorities and these amendments address what should be this Government's first priority—protecting our firefighters in the bushfire season. We know that bushfires are dangerous and many lives can be lost if things go wrong. Firefighters take great risks doing their job and they should be covered. Even if the Government's figures are right—and I do not think they are—it is not outside what this Government can pay. The Government has plenty of money floating around that it is handing out hand over glove in other places. It is not unreasonable for the Government to look after our firefighters. The Hon. DAVID CLARKE (11:35:0): The Government does not support Opposition amendment Nos 1 and 2 that extend the retrospective application of the presumptive legislation. The Government bill provides limited retrospective application of the presumption. The Government bill provides the opportunity for a firefighter who previously made a claim for compensation for one of the specified cancers and whose claim was denied—because they were not able to prove that the cancer arose out of their firefighting exposure—to make that claim again. When the firefighter makes the claim again, the Government bill allows them to rely on the presumption. This means that they do not have to prove the cause of the cancer; it is presumed the cancer was contracted because of their firefighting activities. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1659

This policy position addresses any inequity suffered by firefighters who previously tried to make a claim for compensation but who could not gather the evidence to meet the burden of demonstrating causation. The Opposition amendments go further than this and make the retrospective application of the presumption to all firefighters, regardless of the fact that they had not previously made a claim. Actuarial assessments indicate that this would cost more than $350 million—an amount payable by the people of New South Wales. These amendments are inconsistent with the existing legislative framework and the application of similar legislation across Australia. The proposed amendments are not supported. Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE (11:36): The Greens support Opposition amendment Nos 1 and 2. If the Committee allows me, it may be convenient for me to move The Greens amendments. I would ask the Committee, if Opposition amendments are not successful, that The Greens amendment No. 1 on C2018-179B be put. If that is not successful, then I ask that The Greens amendment No. 2 on C2018-179B be put in that order. The CHAIR (The Hon. Trevor Khan): If the Committee is agreeable, I will put Opposition amendment Nos 1 and 2 together. I will then put The Greens amendments, subject to the Opposition amendments having gone down, seriatim. Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE: By leave: I move The Greens amendment Nos 1 and 2 on sheet C2018-179B in globo: No. 1 Existing diseases Page 5, Schedule 1 [3] (proposed clause 1 (2) of Part 19K of Schedule 6), line 13. Omit "27 September 2018". Insert instead "4 July 2011". No. 2 Existing diseases Page 6, Schedule 1 [3] (proposed clause 2 of Part 19K of Schedule 6). Insert after line 9: (4) As soon as practicable after the period of 12 months from the commencement of this clause, the Law and Justice Committee of the Legislative Council is to review the operation of clause 1. (5) The review under subclause (4) is to consider: (a) the cost of claims for compensation resulting from the operation of clause 1, and (b) the equity and ongoing costs of extending the application of the eligibility provisions to existing diseases contracted on or after 4 July 2011 as provided by that clause. (6) The Law and Justice Committee is to report to Parliament on the outcome of the review under subclause (4). The Greens support Opposition amendment Nos 1 and 2. I said in my contribution to the second reading debate that The Greens are sceptical about the actuarial costing of an additional $350 million liability. The Opposition amendments state that regardless of when a firefighter contracted, diagnosed or died from one of the 12 occupational cancers, they will have a right to make a claim for compensation within a short period of six months from the date of passage of the bill. The Government is right to the extent that it says that if a firefighter contracted and died from the cancer two decades ago their family would have the right to make a claim within that six-month window. If a firefighter contracted and was diagnosed with the cancer two years ago that firefighter, or his or her family if he or she had passed away, has the right to make a claim within six months. I think it is grossly unlikely that within a six-month window enough of those claims would be brought from deceased or suffering firefighters to come anywhere near $350 million. There is a six-month window within which to make the claim. If I had any criticism of the Opposition's amendment, it would be that six months is probably not long enough for the message to get out among the firefighting community and among former firefighters so they would have time to make a claim. The Opposition amendment opens up retrospectivity to any firefighter or the family of any firefighter who had contracted one of the occupational diseases and who had been working in the industry long enough to be covered by these new expanded definitions. Because of the way that amendment extends back in time indefinitely, The Greens support it. Again, I think it is almost ludicrous to suggest that the likely cost of that will be anywhere near $350 million. I covered The Greens' two amendments in my contribution to the second reading debate so I will not go over them at length. The Greens amendment No. 1 would change the Government's proposed date of retrospectivity, 27 September 2018—the date it announced its decision. Instead, the legislation would be made retrospective to 4 July 2011. Any firefighter who died from or was diagnosed with one of the occupational diseases from 4 July 2011 would be covered as a result of The Greens amendment No. 1. Why is that fair? Because it is the standard that has been set in the Commonwealth and the Northern Territory. The Government argues that there is no retrospectivity in other States, such as Western Australia and Tasmania. That is true to some extent, but those States moved years before us—in 2013 and 2012. The Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1660

Commonwealth and those other states did not have the same argument about retrospectivity because they moved seven, six and five years before now, so the retrospectivity argument was not the same. Firefighters in New South Wales have been asking for this since it was passed in the Commonwealth seven years ago; that is why The Greens have suggested the date of 4 July 2011. If neither of those amendments succeeds—and I hope we do not get to that point—The Greens' final amendment is to refer this matter to the Law and Justice Committee to review how the retrospectivity in the bill has currently operated. That is to be done as soon as practicable 12 months after this legislation commences. Under that review, the Law and Justice Committee is to consider the cost of claims for compensation resulting from the operation of clause 1. It would look at the claims experience, find out how many matters have come forward, and then consider the equity and ongoing costs of extending the application of the eligibility provision to existing diseases contracted on or after 4 July 2011 as provided by that clause. In other words, if the inflated actuarial assessments are the reason this is not being done now, let us get some claims experience. If that is the final hurdle, let us look at how many claims have come forward, look at the experience in other jurisdictions and work out how much it actually will cost—not the grossly inflated figures we are dealing with at the moment. Next year let us finally do it with all the cold, hard facts to hand. The Government has said that under its bill retrospectivity will extend earlier than 27 September 2018, and there is a tiny amount of retrospectivity for firefighters who had made a claim and had it denied before that date. That is not genuine retrospectivity because almost all of those firefighters will have gone to their lawyer; their lawyer will have got an expert report from their treating cancer specialist; that expert report will say, "You're not going to win this case because causation is just too hard"; and claims will not have been brought. It is not the case that those firefighters have brought claims and had them denied; most of them will not have brought a claim. They would then be doubly penalised because they did not put in a claim that was probably unmeritorious under the existing legislation. If I were one of those firefighters or a family member of one of those firefighters and I were watching what is happening here today, I do not think I could stomach it. The Hon. DAVID CLARKE (11:44): The amendments moved by The Greens would have the effect of extending the retrospective application of the presumption from 27 September 2018, as announced by the Government, to 4 July 2011. The Government opposes these amendments. The Government's bill provides limited retrospective application for the presumption. It provides the opportunity for a firefighter who previously made a claim for compensation for one of the specified cancers and had that claim denied because they were not able to prove that the cancer arose out of their firefighting exposure to make that claim again. When the firefighter makes the claim again, the Government's bill allows them to rely upon the presumption. This means that they do not have to prove the cause of the cancer; it is presumed the cancer was contracted because of their firefighting activities. This policy position addresses any inequity suffered by firefighters who previously tried to make a claim for compensation but who could not gather the evidence to meet the burden of demonstrating causation. The Greens' amendments go further to make the retrospective application of the presumption to all firefighters with a date of diagnosis from 4 July 2011, regardless of the fact that they had not previously made a claim. Actuarial assessments indicate that this would cost more than $250 million—an amount payable by the people of New South Wales as an increased cost on their insurance rates. The Workers Compensation Legislation (Firefighters) Amendment Bill 2018 introduces presumptive legislation for firefighters that goes further than nearly all of the other States and Territories in Australia. That is, when introducing their legislation, all States and Territories apart from the Northern Territory provided for no retrospectivity in the application of the presumption. Regarding The Greens amendment No. 2, I indicate that the Minister is supportive of a review in similar terms to that amendment. I am informed that the Minister will work with Mr David Shoebridge and the Hon. Natalie Ward to draft terms of reference for a review by the Law and Justice Committee. However, the Government does not support the amendment. The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ (11:47): Obviously the Labor Party supports The Greens' amendments. Regarding The Greens amendment No. 2, as a member of the Law and Justice Committee who has looked at actuarial information provided to that committee for more than a decade, I think The Greens have got Buckley's chance of getting any real actuarial information. That has been our experience. It sounds nice to have a review but the reality of the Law and Justice Committee over the past decade is that we have struggled to get actuarial information to the extent that members of the committee have discussed bringing in our own actuaries to try to get to the bottom of things. The Hon. ROBERT BROWN (11:47): I have foreshadowed that the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party will support the Opposition's amendments and The Greens' amendments. The Government has indicated that it believes The Greens' amendment No. 2 has value. Of course it has value: It would bring to the table the facts of the matter on this $250 million or $350 million. My comment regarding these amendments is that members cannot honestly, as a bunch of Christians—and others—stand here in this place with a stopwatch and Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1661

say, "You win; click—you lose." Whether $350 million or $250 million—does it matter? If we had some mechanism whereby we could press a button to get an instant poll of the ratepayers of New South Wales, we could ask them, "Is $250 million or $350 million worth one life? Two lives? Five lives? What is it worth?" I have had two close family members, a niece and a brother-in-law, die of brain cancer. It is sneaky. You cannot predict when it will happen. You can have it treated and it can come back years later. I have a nephew now with the same damn thing. So I would urge my colleague Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile: Have some compassion, brother, and vote for the amendments. Reverend the Hon. FRED NILE (11:49): Speaking to the Opposition, we have sought some advice from the Government as to the amount of extra money that would have to be found from the budget—the $356 million, which some members question. The Government has advised that $102 would be added to every emergency services levy policy, $16.50 would be added to every individual's council rates and $52.3 million would have to be found from consolidated revenue. That is trying to be realistic. The Hon. Lynda Voltz: That is just not true, Fred. Reverend the Hon. FRED NILE: These are the figures provided by the Government. I can only trust the Government to be giving us accurate figures and advice. The other question in my mind—because I have been here, as members know, for 34 or 35 years or something—is that I have seen over the years where the Government gets amendments that it is very unhappy with, especially in the financial area, and then the bill stalls and does not go anywhere. That is my concern. I do not want the firefighters to lose out on having any improvement which this bill gives them. I cannot force the Government to implement the bill with the amendments—that is up to the Government policy. I do not have it in front of me but I have seen this happen over the years where a bill was amended, strongly opposed by the Government in this economic area, and the bill then stalled—it did not get implemented. You cannot force the Government to implement the bill with your amendments. I am a realist and I have seen this happen over the years where the bill is stalled and does not get promulgated or some other strategy is used by the Government. I hope that does not happen and I have no advice from anybody in the Government that that is a possibility, but I would like the Parliamentary Secretary to give a guarantee that if the amendments were carried the bill would proceed and the amendments would proceed through the other place, or the bill would be stalled. The Parliamentary Secretary can answer my questions in a moment. I put him on the spot with the proposition I just put to him. We are all very sympathetic to the firefighters and we could spend hours discussing various people we know who have had cancers, including my own father who died of lung cancer. It is quite an emotional thing when you are discussing policies that affect people's lives, especially in this case of firefighters who risk their lives every day on our behalf. If anyone has a priority out of all the workers, firefighters should be at the top of the list. That is how the Hon. Paul Green and I feel about these amendments. It may be an emotional response and not a financial one that something should be done and that these amendments should be carried. That would be where we are leading in our thinking at this stage. The Greens amendment No. 2 is something we have often supported in the past. I do not see that as a dramatic intervention. There may be some problems with amendment No. 1 but the Government may come up with some proposition whereby it could accept No. 2. We will see how the debate and the voting proceeds on the amendments. The Hon. ROBERT BROWN (11:54): If I may be so intemperate as to offer some advice to someone who has far more experience than me, the Government uses this threat often. The threat is probably made privately in meetings. I know it has been made to us: "Oh, if these amendments go through we'll pull the bill." My response to the Government has always been, "Okay, bring it on. Let's see you attempt to pull a bill like this. Let's see you put your cards on the table." I know the member at the table who has carriage of this bill cannot make a decision here. He has to take direction from the Minister who has promulgated the bill. To Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile I say: Fred, good on you, mate. That is good; that is putting them on notice. That is the way you have to deal with this Government. I am sorry to have to say that, but that is the way we have to deal with this Government, so bring it on. I hope Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile carries through. It will be interesting to see what the Government representative has to say about whether the Government would honour the bill if the amendments were carried. That will be very interesting. But in either case I say to my colleague Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile: Let's take them on, Fred. They will not dare kill a bill like this just to try to spook you out of supporting the Opposition amendments. The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ (11:56): Regarding the figures the Government has put forward as to the insurance levy I again urge members to look at the workers compensation reviews that have been undertaken by the Legislative Council Standing Committee on Law and Justice and find out how much leeway there is in the workers compensation scheme. We are not talking about a small scheme. We are talking about a scheme that currently holds billions and billions of dollars. With the compensation figures Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile was Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1662

talking about, use the compulsory third party example I gave: Over nine months, almost $1 billion has been collected in compulsory third party and only $50 million has been paid out to people with injuries. There is a huge amount of money in those schemes because the schemes are built to have long tails. That is exactly what is indicated by the situation of firefighters with these types of cancers. The point is the scheme always has flexibility within it to adjust. If one looks at insurance levies for cars alone, that is more than $1 billion. For the Government to imply that people's house insurance will go up by $150—I cannot remember the exact figure used by Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile in his example—because of the inclusion of some retrospectivity on firefighters is inconceivable when one considers the amounts that are collected by this scheme. Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE (11:58): Dealing with Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile's contribution—and his concern is about the cost—I think the Opposition is right to look at the most recent experience of a new scheme that has been established, which is the no-fault element of the compulsory third party [CTP] scheme. The Chair of the Legislative Council Standing Committee on Law and Justice would probably join with me—although she can probably speak for herself—in expressing frustration at how long it has taken to get the actuarial projections for claims under that scheme in the first 12 months of its operation. It is often hard to predict what the actuarial response will be in the first 12 months of the operation of a scheme because nobody knows about it and it depends upon how well it is communicated and how effective the lawyers and others are at putting claims on in a short period. We now know that the actuarial projections for the CTP scheme showed in their worst-case scenario that $150 million would be paid out in the first nine months of the scheme—actuaries think the worst-case scenario is when people are actually paid benefits—but because it was a new scheme and because there is always a delay in claims being made, only $50 million was paid out. That is one-third of what the actuaries had assumed. The actuaries projected five alternative scenarios based upon different delays in people making claims due to this being a new scheme. Even their lowest estimate, which assumed people would be delayed in making claims on the new scheme, is higher than the amount actually paid out. When we look at actuarial estimates in this case, we see they project that something like $350 million would be paid out with a window of opportunity to put claims on of six months. This is wildly inflated. I do not blame the Government for putting those actuarial figures to us; I am sure that they came from the actuaries. However, history shows that the actuarial projections are wildly inflated. The CHAIR (The Hon. Trevor Khan): The Hon. Lynda Voltz has moved Opposition amendment Nos 1 and 2 appearing on sheet C2018-163. The question is that the amendments be agreed to. The Committee divided. Ayes ...... 18 Noes ...... 17 Majority ...... 1 AYES Brown, Mr R Donnelly, Mr G (teller) Faehrmann, Ms C Field, Mr J Graham, Mr J Green, Mr P Houssos, Mrs C Moselmane, Mr S Nile, Revd Mr (teller) Pearson, Mr M Primrose, Mr P Searle, Mr A Secord, Mr W Sharpe, Ms P Shoebridge, Mr D Veitch, Mr M Voltz, Ms L Walker, Ms D

NOES Ajaka, Mr Blair, Mr Clarke, Mr D Colless, Mr R Cusack, Ms C Fang, Mr W (teller) Farlow, Mr S Franklin, Mr B Harwin, Mr D MacDonald, Mr S Maclaren-Jones, Mrs Mallard, Mr S (teller) Martin, Mr T Mason-Cox, Mr M Mitchell, Mrs Phelps, Dr P Ward, Mrs N

PAIRS Mookhey, Mr D Amato, Mr L Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1663

PAIRS Wong, Mr E Taylor, Mrs

Amendments agreed to. Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE (12:08): I withdraw The Greens amendment No. 1 on sheet C2018-179B. Amendment withdrawn. The CHAIR (The Hon. Trevor Khan): Mr David Shoebridge has moved The Greens amendment No. 2 on sheet C2018-179B. The question is that the amendment be agreed to. The Committee divided. Ayes ...... 18 Noes ...... 17 Majority ...... 1 AYES Brown, Mr R Donnelly, Mr G (teller) Faehrmann, Ms C Field, Mr J Graham, Mr J Green, Mr P Houssos, Mrs C Moselmane, Mr S Nile, Revd Mr (teller) Pearson, Mr M Primrose, Mr P Searle, Mr A Secord, Mr W Sharpe, Ms P Shoebridge, Mr D Veitch, Mr M Voltz, Ms L Walker, Ms D

NOES Ajaka, Mr Blair, Mr Clarke, Mr D Colless, Mr R Cusack, Ms C Fang, Mr W (teller) Farlow, Mr S Franklin, Mr B Harwin, Mr D MacDonald, Mr S Maclaren-Jones, Mrs Mallard, Mr S (teller) Martin, Mr T Mason-Cox, Mr M Mitchell, Mrs Phelps, Dr P Ward, Mrs N

PAIRS Mookhey, Mr D Amato, Mr L Wong, Mr E Taylor, Mrs

Amendment agreed to. The CHAIR (The Hon. Trevor Khan): The question is that the bill as amended be agreed to. Motion agreed to. The Hon. DAVID CLARKE: I move: That the Chair do now leave the chair and report the bill to the House with amendments. Motion agreed to. Adoption of Report The Hon. DAVID CLARKE: On behalf of the Hon. Don Harwin: I move: That the report be adopted. Motion agreed to. Third Reading The Hon. DAVID CLARKE: On behalf of the Hon. Don Harwin: I move: Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1664

That this bill be now read a third time. Motion agreed to. Budget BUDGET ESTIMATES AND RELATED PAPERS 2018-2019 Debate resumed from 19 June 2018. The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts) (12:20): In reply: As the Fifty-sixth Parliament draws to a conclusion, I have to say there has not been as much debate on this excellent budget as I would have liked. But now is not the time or place: We are all anxious to hear the valedictory speech of the Hon. Ernest Wong, whom we have enjoyed serving with. With those few remarks, I commend the motion to the House. The PRESIDENT: The question is that the motion be agreed to. Motion agreed to. The PRESIDENT: Order! According to resolution of the House of Thursday 15 November 2018, proceedings are interrupted to enable the Hon. Ernest Wong to make his valedictory speech without any question before the Chair. Members VALEDICTORY SPEECH The Hon. ERNEST WONG (12:21): Before I make my valedictory speech, I acknowledge the original custodians of this land and pay my respect to their elders both past and present. The 5½ years that I have been in Parliament have been a profound experience for me—a true personal journey. Why do you enter Parliament? Clearly, it is to make a difference. The question is: In what way do you make a difference? Throughout my time in the Legislature, I have had two overriding concerns: social equity and social justice. They have been my guideposts through all my time in Parliament. Anti-discrimination has been of paramount importance for me as a member of the Chinese community and the ethnic community as a whole. The Australian Federation was defined, prior to and at the time of its inception, on the basis of distinguishing itself against people from China. Despite the small Chinese community already in Australia, in June 1888 representatives from the then British colonies on the Continent met to discuss what they called the "Chinese Question". At the end of the conference, they issued a resolution, which read: In the opinion of this Conference the further restriction of Chinese immigration is essential to the welfare of the people of Australia. The Immigration Restriction Act was passed just after Federation. Its limitation of immigration to those from the British Isles made strangers in the land that had in fact become their home. That was maintained by leaders of both major and minor Australian parties throughout the twentieth century. In 1941, during World War II, Prime Minister John Curtin declared in the House of Representatives: This nation will remain forever the home of sons of Britishers who came here in peace to establish in the South Seas an outpost of the British race. In 1966 the leader of the [ALP] in Federal Parliament, Arthur Calwell, stated that in his opinion, "Asians present a menace to our society". Thirty years later, declared in 1996, "All Asian immigration should be stopped". Today Australia is home to more than 1.2 million people of Chinese ancestry. But such pronouncements from political leaders and others over time never fail to give Chinese Australians a feeling that somehow they are not part of Australia or that somehow they are not "authentic" Australians. This is so unfair and so iniquitous, and I have always stood against it. It was from that standpoint that I brought the issue to the forefront in 2015 in an Address-in-Reply debate when I reminded this Chamber: Chinese Australians are ... Australian citizens first and foremost ... [and] as Australian citizens, we look to Australia's interest. Social justice is the bedrock of the teaching I received as a boy. In the final stages of my school education I went to a Jesuit secondary college in Hong Kong, which is where I grew up. One of the key principles of the Jesuit heritage is the call to a faith that does justice and which expresses solidarity with the poor and marginalised. It is a basic belief that Christian faith cannot have integrity without action for social justice. Even more, the approach extends to those elected by the people. I believe we have a duty and a responsibility to help vulnerable people who are not in a position to help themselves. The iniquity of discrimination is most fundamentally changed through multiculturalism. Multiculturalism is the foundation for affirming the civic validity of immigrants. For immigrants, knowing their culture is accepted Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1665

means that they can turn their attention to making a contribution in the country to which they have come—without looking over their shoulder to see who thinks they are unwelcome. This is why I have made this a major theme of my contributions to Parliament. Rather than having a negative impact on a nation, multiculturalism creates an environment for the most positive of outcomes. To his great credit, Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser captured the positives of multiculturalism when as far back as 1981 he declared: Multiculturalism is ... a source of social dynamism ... [and] Australian multiculturalism is a unique achievement ... [through which the nation] has been enlarged in capacities, talents and outlook by millions of men and women from every corner of the globe. Even today, articles in management journals highlight the contributions of immigrants to the economies of the nations they settle in. Nataly Kelly, writing this year in the Harvard Business Review, pointed out: It has been well documented that immigrants contribute disproportionately to entrepreneurship ... [in the USA] ... they represent 27.5 per cent of entrepreneurs ... [even though they make up] only 13 per cent of the population ... immigrants believe in their ability to figure things out and adapt once they get there ... Multiculturalism is the environment that allows that to flourish, so it saddens me that multiculturalism now appears to be in retreat. Even though the Australian Labor Party [ALP] has come to endorse multiculturalism— with Chris Bowen, as Minister for Immigration, declaring in 2011 "If Australia is to be free and equal, then it will be multicultural"—the political successors of Malcolm Fraser now seem to disown the policy. Seven years after Fraser championed multiculturalism, John Howard, as the Leader of the Liberal Party in the Federal Parliament, told the Canberra Press Club that "multiculturalism ... is a ... divisive policy". In 2006 Peter Costello, the Treasurer in Howard's Government, went further and spoke of a "confused, mushy ... [and] misguided multiculturalism" and added that immigrants should realise, "Becoming a citizen of another country changes their identity." Last year the Assistant Minister for Immigration, , declared in a major policy statement on multiculturalism that while the Turnbull Government embraced "diversity", the same Government was intent on maintaining "the importance of [Australians] being an integrated ... people." Nonetheless, for the sake of the Chinese community from which I have received so much support, as well as from the community at large, the true arrival of multiculturalism will remain an aim of mine and a goal towards which I will continue to devote my energies. A crucial element in the development of multiculturalism, I believe, is rectifying the extraordinary under-representation of immigrants in Australia's Federal and State parliaments. I have made the airing of this a key objective in my contribution to Parliament. In October this year I drew members' attention to the fact that, whereas in the 2016 Census nearly 6.1 million people, or 26 per cent of the Australian population, were recorded as born overseas, at a Federal level only 24 out of 226 members, or 10.6 per cent of the House of Representatives and the Senate, were born overseas. Of those 24 members from overseas, 10 were born in Britain. The situation is even more pronounced in the New South Wales Parliament. In 2016, the overseas-born population of the New South Wales population was 2.1 million, or 28 per cent of 7.5 million, but there were only about 10 overseas-born members of Parliament, or just over 7 per cent of 135 parliamentarians. Among all the nations of the world, Australia has the third-highest percentage of overseas born people, yet it as if there is a sign outside Parliament stating, "No immigrant need apply"—just like the signs that barred Catholics years ago. It is such a noticeable feature that academics such as Juliet Pietsch from the Australian National University have published entire books on it, noting that it is the gatekeepers within the two major parties that stand in the way of immigrants gaining preselection of winnable seats. It will only be when the make-up of Federal and State parliaments genuinely reflects the proportion of immigrants in the community that we will witness the arrival of a multicultural policy that truly opens an unhindered path for newcomers to contribute to the economic advancement of this country. My commitment to social justice has been fundamentally directed to confronting the level of poverty that exists among us. Poverty is all around us, even though we go about our daily lives as if it does not exist. The most recent study from the Australian Council of Social Service reported that in 2015-16, 3.05 million people were living below the poverty line. Of these three million people, 739,000 were children. It was from this position of action for social justice that this year I brought the issue of poverty directly to the attention of this House and challenged colleagues to set a clear poverty reduction target that breaks the cycle of deprivation in which so many fellow Australians are trapped. Sadly, it is impossible for an individual to address every form of poverty, so I have focused on what I believe is the most pressing and harrowing manifestation of poverty—homelessness. For this reason, I made it a personal endeavour to introduce a motion to set up a committee of inquiry into homelessness. I brought to the attention of members that it was beyond dispute that New South Wales was in the midst of a growing homelessness crisis. Data released the previous December by the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare showed that in 2016-17 homelessness services in New South Wales had supported more than 74,000 clients, which is an increase of 43 per cent in three years. In fact, homelessness in Sydney, in particular, Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1666

has increased faster than in any other capital city in Australia, with a 26 per cent increase in the number of people sleeping rough in the city of Sydney since 2011. In addition, I emphasised to members that charities have reported increases of up to 44 per cent in the number of older women seeking homelessness services in the past five years and that young people made up 19 per cent of those experiencing homelessness. I went to great lengths to get the numbers to support the motion while imploring members to be aware that as legislators and policymakers it was our responsibility to make a commitment to create legislation that would prepare the groundwork for a fully integrated approach that would encompass collaboration between all tiers of government, government agencies and private organisations. Despite all my efforts, I had to face the bitter disappointment of not only seeing my motion rejected but also witnessing colleagues who I thought had a Christian outlook contributing to its failure. I missed my Adjournment speech last night, so I take this opportunity to share with my colleagues a short synopsis of my Commonwealth Parliamentary Association [CPA] study trip before I present the formal report. My recent CPA study trip presented me with an incredible opportunity to visit Hong Kong, the United Kingdom and Singapore to focus on an issue that has long been of great concern to me, which is the issue of homelessness, and especially how each of those nations is addressing and responding to this crisis. While I will be preparing a more extensive report regarding my trip, I will talk specifically today about how the United Kingdom is addressing homelessness and its long-term strategy for preventing it. What is not unique to the United Kingdom, or indeed other Commonwealth countries, is the complexities and contributing factors that underpin homelessness all over the world. Nowhere is this more prevalent than right here on our shores. While I may not have had the bipartisan support I needed to establish a parliamentary inquiry into homelessness in this State, I am no less committed to championing a need for this on behalf of the millions of Australians who are currently, or who are at risk of becoming, homeless. On 27 April 2017 the United Kingdom's Homelessness Reduction Bill became an Act of Parliament. However, it only became effective on 3 April 2018. The bill sees the biggest changes to homelessness laws in the United Kingdom in 40 years, with a specific aim of introducing key measures to prevent and relieve homelessness. While this is a great starting point, the Homelessness Reduction Act 2017 requires a more robust approach to advisory services whose core business is providing information and advice on preventing homelessness; securing accommodation, if homeless; the rights of people who are homeless or threatened with homelessness; and any other support provided by a local authority or any other local organisations that are available for people who are homeless, or who are likely to become homeless, and how to access that help. As is the case in this country, homelessness in the United Kingdom has increased in prominence in the media and in the political agenda over the past year or more, with all major political parties mentioning homelessness in their manifestos for the June 2017 general election. In addition to addressing homelessness, the current conservative government under Theresa May pledged to halve rough sleeping by 2020 and eliminate it altogether by 2027. Ms May has established a high-level Rough Sleeping and Homelessness Reduction Task Force, supported by an expert Rough Sleeping Advisory Panel. She has allocated £28 million to be invested in the rollout of the Housing First initiative for three Housing First pilots in Manchester, Liverpool and the West Midlands. Housing First is a global phenomenon that originally commenced in the United States and has since gained traction in other countries such as Finland and, more recently, the United Kingdom. Housing First is a relatively recent innovation in an international policy shift with regard to the treatment of the homeless and is an alternative system of emergency shelter and transitional housing progressions. Rather than moving homeless individuals through different levels of housing, whereby each level moves them closer to independent housing—for example, from the streets to a hostel, from a hostel to a transitional housing program and from there to their own accommodation—Housing First moved a homeless individual or household immediately from the streets or emergency accommodation. Housing First approaches are based on the concept that the homeless individual's or household's first and primary need is to obtain stable housing and other issues that may affect the household can and should be addressed once housing is obtained. In contrast, the more traditional model of housing readiness is where an individual or household must address other issues, such as alcohol and/or substance misuse or job readiness, which may have led to the episode of homelessness, prior to obtaining housing and in order to sustain a tenancy. The Government established its Rough Sleeping Strategy in August 2018, outlining how it intends to end rough sleeping by 2027. Backed by £100 million of funding, it takes a three-pronged approach to ending rough sleeping through prevention, intervention and recovery. The Rough Sleeping Strategy signals a significant shift to cross-department working and shows that the Government recognises that homelessness and rough sleeping are not just about housing. The strategy sets out a more advanced understanding of the complexity of rough sleeping and people's needs and pledges more assistance Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1667

for women, non-United Kingdom nationals, the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community and victims of modern slavery. During the meetings I had with service providers and serving members of Parliament, I raised the idea of the need for Australia to establish a unique portfolio tasked with addressing the homelessness crisis only. This would enable the opportunity to connect critical support service providers, government departments or agencies and service delivery organisations to operate cohesively and within a centralised portfolio. This was met with overwhelming support from all parties. My responsibility and our responsibility is to the people of New South Wales doing it the toughest, and it is on each and every one of us in this place to support and pursue this idea until it becomes action. I for one intend to keep applying the pressure until this happens. Homelessness, I might add, does not only afflict the poorest among us. Sometimes even those in better circumstances can find themselves without a roof over their heads. Three years ago I hosted a forum in the Parliament's theatrette for people who had been the victims of sunset clauses in contracts to buy strata units off the plan. These clauses allow the developer to rescind a contract after a certain date, usually in the event that construction is not finished on schedule. The forum was organised in response to a huge demand from local residents who reached out to me for assistance, almost on a daily basis. Every single person who attended this forum had been affected by these sunset clauses. In the hope of saving their dwellings, some of the buyers had launched a class action, but, after exhausting hundreds of thousands of dollars on legal advice, the verdict went against them. They lost their dwellings and they lost their money. I am proud of the fact that I helped these people to have their voices heard and to have shone a light on some of the worst ways in which people, who are simply trying to get a home, can be treated. I am pleased to say that the demand was heard and the sunset clause amendment legislation was approved by this Parliament. Poverty, however, does not only manifest itself in homelessness, although it is the most dire manifestation. Another manifestation is hunger. During my term as a member of Parliament, I have gone out of my way to highlight this issue in Parliament and to point out that it affects the most vulnerable among us. In May this year I successfully moved a motion bringing to the attention of members the Rumbling Tummies report issued by Foodbank. The key findings of the report are: more than one in five children nationally had experienced food insecurity over the past 12 months; one in five parents living in food-insecure households say that their children had to go a whole day each week without eating fresh food; and 15 per cent of children from food-insecure households go to school without a packed lunch or lunch money. It breaks my heart to read figures like that. It is offensive that we have statistics such as these. What are we doing when people live like this? As much as anyone concerned about social justice might want to focus on those enduring hardship in their own country, it is hard to turn our eyes away from the forms of injustice meted out to those overseas—and the appearance of those forms of injustice in Australia. I mean, most particularly, slavery and the modern manifestations of it. It comes as a shock to realise that refusal to pay wages, workers being threatened with physical assault, workers confined to tiny single spaces, and debt bondage—practices that have nearly been stamped out overseas—have been re-emerging in this country. I am appreciative of the opportunity to do something about this scourge through the establishment of the Select Committee on Human Trafficking. When I became a member, I felt that it was a genuine application of faith that does justice. It was particularly rewarding to see our efforts become law in the passage of the Modern Slavery Act 2018, sponsored by the Hon. Paul Green. While the Legislature has taken up most of my time, over these past five or six years I have been able to complement my parliamentary work with assisting the vulnerable in the community. I have established, in collaboration with a small number of volunteers, the Special Children Services Centre [SCSC] to provide services and early intervention programs for children who have an intellectual impairment. These children are from families with a range of ethnic backgrounds—Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, to name a few. The centre is a charity organisation aiming to assist children with special needs, especially children with intellectual disabilities and developmental delay, by providing professional training, therapy programs and other practical services. Looking back at my time here, I must say to colleagues that ethnic communities, though they might not constitute the majority of votes in every election, are nonetheless a major part of the society that makes up Australia. Therefore, I urge all parliamentarians to reach out to them, to listen to them, and extensively communicate with them so as to understand their view of how to live in Australia and the values that they have inherited from their culture. In turn, this may contribute to better policies and legislation in Australia. Ethnic communities are not just window-dressing practice to gain votes and funds, as seems to happen in every election. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1668

As I come to the end of my last speech in this House, there is a question that has been asked of me many times over the course of the past few months and one which, I must admit, I have asked myself more times than I care to remember. Put simply, it is this: Will I miss this place? I will miss this place because it is a place where I believe I can speak on behalf of my community on what is right and what is wrong—although we are still very restricted by party lines and the position of caucus. With that said, I have still found there are a host of other forums in this place where I can be a voice for those pockets of the community who may otherwise not have had the opportunity or platform to speak out and be heard. Sadly, there are still many communities in New South Wales that find themselves without a voice due to a number of factors, which include isolation, a lack of knowledge in how to access basic help and services, language barriers and cultural suppression. These are just a few of the daily challenges faced by members of our community who are desperately seeking someone on whom they can rely to represent them and make their voice heard. Without the opportunity to have served in this place, their stories would go unheard and the injustice they are subjected to would go unacknowledged. These simple values are the values I am proud to represent. Like many Chinese in Australia, I hold these values in the highest regard. I am a very proud Chinese Australian and feel very humbled to have had the great privilege of serving in this place as a proud and strong advocate for my community. My approach to contentious issues over the years often has been viewed as not being aggressive enough. However, aggression should not be mistaken for passion. In general, Chinese people are more humble and less vocal in their approach to important subject matters. This is one of our many cultural attributes. We are by our very nature humble and passive people, but we are no less sensitive, vulnerable or passionate about causes of great significance. It is the Chinese way to take a somewhat suppressive approach to contentious issues, not because we are less passionate but rather our focus is to approach these matters with respect, consideration and dignity. We believe we can get greater results and are able to make more of a difference in the most harmonious way possible. As the old saying goes: you get bees with honey. On the flip side, when I sit and reflect about this place, there are certain things I am not going to miss. At times I have been overwhelmed by the disingenuousness and duplicity of many in this place. They talk about politics being a dirty game, but you can never truly appreciate the extent of the dog-eat-dog attitude or the "self before others" philosophy until you have served as a member of Parliament. In this place we need more humanity than politics, we need more heart than ego, we need more consideration than being a winner, and we need to display the traits of humans more than animals. I extend my thanks to all those who have assisted me in my parliamentary career: my family, who have given me so much support and been so understanding of the time I have spent away from home, my parents and family members in Hong Kong, who also constantly have supported me, and my colleagues from both sides of the House. Alison Kelly has helped me not only in organising my office since the day I started my term in this place but also with a great deal of policy advice. Thank you, Alison. I thank also Winnie Huang, who has helped me throughout all these years in liaising with the Chinese community, and John Wilkinson, who, even though he has come on board in the later part of my parliamentary term, I had already known from the research he had undertaken before he arrived. I thank the President of the Legislative Council, the Hon. John Ajaka, and his predecessor, the Hon. Don Harwin, for their nonpartisan approach in presiding over debates in this House. I thank the Clerks of the Legislative Council, particularly David Blunt and Stephen Frappell, and Ms Kate Cadell, Senior Council Officer in the Office of the Clerk . It would be remiss of me not to mention the great work of the Hansard team recording all my speeches and contributions to debates. I extend my thanks to my colleagues on Portfolio Committee No. 6 and to the committee secretariat. I particularly thank the attendants, who have made life so much easier for me and all of us. I thank the information technology department, which is always there to help in any crisis; the library, the reference staff and research service, both of which have provided so much valuable assistance; security, in particular the special constables; the catering staff, who have so often helped with functions; and the cleaners, who have always made my office inviting to walk into. I wish all my colleagues good luck for the next election, but of course I will be expecting a Labor Party victory. Last but not least, I wish you all the merriest of Christmases and a more than happy new year. The PRESIDENT: I will now leave the chair. The House will resume at 2.30 p.m. The PRESIDENT: Order! According to sessional order, proceedings are now interrupted for questions. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1669

Visitors VISITORS The PRESIDENT: I welcome into the public gallery parliamentarians from five of the Association of South-East Asian Nations [ASEAN] member States, who are here as part of the 2018 Guest of Parliament program managed by the International and Parliamentary Relations Office at the Parliament of Australia. Questions Without Notice DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT MINING TITLES UNIT The Hon. ADAM SEARLE (14:30): My question is directed to the Minister for Resources. Given revelations in the Newcastle Herald today that the Minister's department lost a valid agricultural land objection by an elderly farmer to a mine being situated on 40 hectares of his property only to find it again after the mine licence had been approved, how did his departmental officials come to lose the farmer's objection, what steps has he taken to investigate why it was lost and by whom, and is this one of the matters that has now been referred to the Independent Commission Against Corruption? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts) (14:30): I have in front of me the article to which the honourable member refers. It has a great big photo of Rebecca Connor and there is an assertion that there is a link between the matters raised by Rebecca Connor and this particular incident. As all of the matters that relate to yesterday's article from Rebecca Connor have been referred to the Independent Commission Against Corruption by the departmental secretary, as I advised the House yesterday, all I will say is that that reference has now happened. For me to make any further comment would be inappropriate. The Hon. ADAM SEARLE (14:31): I ask a supplementary question. Will the Minister elucidate his answer and indicate whether the matter in today's Newcastle Herald is one of the matters that has been referred? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts) (14:32): I have requested a briefing on whether it is in fact linked. I have not received that briefing yet and I would be reluctant to say anything further. If it is not linked, obviously I will be doing whatever I can to make sure that there is a satisfactory outcome for all the stakeholders concerned as quickly as possible. I would rather not go any further just in case there is a linkage. The Hon. Trevor Khan: Point of order: The Deputy Leader of the Opposition has made at least three or four interjections. It is a bad way to start our final question time. I invite you to call him to order, Mr President. The PRESIDENT: Order! I was about to give a warning to the Hon. Walt Secord. I uphold the point of order. I call the Hon. Walt Secord to order for the first time. I do not want honourable members to think they will not be removed from the Chamber simply because this is our last question time. STATE INFRASTRUCTURE The Hon. SHAYNE MALLARD (14:33): My question is addressed to the the Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, Minister for the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government. Will the Minister update the House on how the Government is investing in the infrastructure needed in New South Wales, and whether there are any alternative policies? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts) (14:34): Make no mistake: We are the infrastructure government. We are building a stronger and better future for the people of New South Wales and we are delivering the infrastructure that this State needs. When Labor members were in office, all they did was announce projects and then cancel them. The projects they tried to build had massive cost blowouts and then they cancelled them. The PRESIDENT: Order! The Clerk will stop the clock. The Minister will resume his seat. Members who took what I said to the Hon. Walt Secord as an invitation to come to the aid of the Minister by interjecting are advised that I issue the exact same warning to them. The Hon. DON HARWIN: As I said, the projects Labor tried to build had massive cost blowouts and then Labor cancelled them. Members opposite stalled the State for 16 long years, falling behind on infrastructure and putting New South Wales further in debt. It is because of the work of this Government that New South Wales is finally back in the black and back on track. We have kickstarted infrastructure projects all over the State. We have cranes in the sky and jobs on the ground. New South Wales is moving again because our Government has cleaned up the mess that Labor left. Since coming to government, we have delivered nearly 60 new schools and major upgrades. Labor's record is it closed more than 90 schools across the State. There are 60 new ones from us Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1670

and 90 were closed by Labor. We have delivered 78 major upgrades to hospitals and health facilities across New South Wales. What did Labor members do? They closed more than 2,000 hospital beds and shut down 37 maternity units across regional New South Wales. Yesterday we heard about how they failed to meet their promises about hospitals at Wagga Wagga, Tamworth and Parkes and on the northern beaches. What about transport? We are building the Sydney Metro. We are building light rail in Sydney, Parramatta and Newcastle. We are delivering 47 train station upgrades. The PRESIDENT: Order! The Clerk will stop the clock. The Minister will resume his seat. Ministers should not be compelled to scream over Government members who feel obliged to echo everything a Minister says and to call out as a team the words "Shame!" and "Hear, hear!" over and over again. I cannot hear the interjections of Opposition members over the interjections of Government members. Let us have a nice, quiet final question time. I remind Government members that if I am to call Opposition members to order for interjecting I need to be able to hear them. I will not hesitate to call Government members to order if they continue to interject. The Minister has the call. The Hon. DON HARWIN: We are also delivering a new intercity fleet and a new XPT train fleet for country passengers. Labor members opposite promised 12 rail lines in nine transport master plans, but we know their record. They only built one half of one rail line. That is all they did. We had to finish the South West Rail Link. We know that it right-hand man and chief of staff of their former transport Minister David Campbell was responsible for Labor's record failure, the member for Keira—and Labor wants to put him in charge of the State's finances. Goodness gracious me! This Government also has delivered more than 2,500 kilometres of new or upgraded roads since inheriting a $30 billion infrastructure backlog from Labor. We are delivering WestConnex, NorthConnex, duplication of the Hume Highway, and upgrades to the Pacific Highway, the Great Western Highway and the Princes Highway. We are delivering projects that Labor could never deliver—the projects that have been talked about for decades. We have acted to deliver the northern beaches tunnel, the F6 extension and the Albion Rail bypass, all of which have been opposed by Labor and all of which will be cancelled if there is a Labor Government. We are the infrastructure government, and we are building a stronger, better future for New South Wales. All we get from the Labor Party is a blast from the past. The biggest risk to the strength and prosperity of our State is the Labor Party. [Time expired.] The PRESIDENT: Order! I remind the Hon. that during question time the President, and the President alone, directs what members do. DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT AND RIDGELANDS RESOURCES The Hon. WALT SECORD (14:40): My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Resources. Given community concerns about the close association between Hunter mining titles officials and the mining industry, what administrative steps has the Minister taken to ensure that the officer named in the application for the variation of the Ridgelands community fund had no associations with any other mining interests? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts) (14:41): With respect, I am not confident that that matter is not connected to the matters that have been referred to the Independent Commission Against Corruption, so at this stage I am not going to add anything to my answer. The PRESIDENT: Order! I advise the Hon. Walt Secord that the use of props is disorderly. CANCER RESEARCH Reverend the Hon. FRED NILE (14:41): My question without notice is directed to the Hon. Niall Blair, representing the Minister for Health, the Hon. , MP. Will the Minister update the House on the progress and outcome of Government initiatives to raise awareness and combat the spread of cancer? Will the Minister provide information about the rates of cancer broken down by sex, age and profession as well as the types of prevalent cancers and inform the House whether those rates are on the increase or decrease? The Hon. NIALL BLAIR (Minister for Primary Industries, Minister for Regional Water, and Minister for Trade and Industry) (14:42): I thank Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile for his question, which he has asked me as the representative of the Minister for Health in this place. The impact of cancer on society is an important subject that concerns not only Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile but also everyone in every community across this State and country. The member asks about initiatives to raise awareness about cancer and how we can address it by way of research and prevention, thereby reducing the incidence of cancer in society. Many members of our society as well as governments do everything they can to raise awareness about cancer and to raise money Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1671

for research. I will be participating this weekend in one of the community events that is part of the Tour De Cure in the hills of Orange in Central West New South Wales. The Hon. : Are you back on the bike? The Hon. NIALL BLAIR: Unfortunately, I cannot ride, but I will be helping with the event on Saturday and Sunday. We know that many people have different motivations for raising awareness of and money for cancer research—and it does not matter what type of cancer we are talking about. We are seeing more types of cancer that affect different demographics across our communities. Members of this Chamber and their families are not immune to the effects of different types of cancers; the disease is well and truly above politics. Everyone in our society has to deal with the effects of cancer, and we do all we can to support our families and our communities when addressing cancer, particularly when it comes to researching and preventing the disease. It is important that we support those who are being treated for cancer. Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile has asked for a lot of up-to-date information and statistics on the prevalence of cancers in our society. I do not have that information to hand, so I am more than happy to take the substance of the question on notice and refer it to the Minister for Health, whom I represent in this House, for an answer. PRIMARY INDUSTRIES The Hon. TREVOR KHAN (14:45): My question is addressed to the Minister for Primary Industries, Minister for Regional Water, and Minister for Trade and Industry. Will the Minister update the House on how the Government has supported primary producers, fishers and other stakeholders through policy reform? The Hon. NIALL BLAIR (Minister for Primary Industries, Minister for Regional Water, and Minister for Trade and Industry) (14:46): I thank the member for his question and his continued interest in primary industries in this State. In the four minutes that remain for me to answer this question I cannot do justice to the level of support that we have provided to our farmers, and particularly our fishers, across the State. When we came to government eight years ago, this place was a mess. We knew that we had to work quickly to clean up that mess. Over the past eight years, this Government has made some tough decisions and some big changes— none bigger than the changes we made in biosecurity reform, biodiversity reform, commercial fishing reform and water reform. We have done many other things, but those reforms were needed to address some outstanding issues—particularly those left behind by Opposition members when they were in government. The Biosecurity Act came into effect on 1 July 2017, pulling together 14 different pieces of legislation into one—which was no easy task. However, we now have an Act that enables better protection from and management of pests, weeds and disease right through the supply chain from paddock to plate, to port and back again. The Biodiversity Act came into effect on 25 August 2017, ending decades of anger and frustration from our farming community and finally getting the balance right between environment and agriculture—which was, again, no easy task. Commercial fishing reform came into effect at the end of 2017. Again, we tackled an industry that had put up with a Labor Government that was too nervous to make a change and too nervous to get it right. We put $16 million on the table to help fishers finally link their access shares with the quantity of fish they caught or the days they fished. When we came to government, fishers had no certainty about their future after years of governments making the wrong decisions or no decisions. Literally thousands of fishers had left the industry on the watch of Labor members opposite. Since 2011, we have recovered more than 1,000 gigalitres of water; spent close to $1 billion securing town water supplies across the State, including at Broken Hill; delivered metering, transparency and environmental protection reform; created an independent regulator; and led the nation in research into water management rules and future water planning. While I am proud of the effort, dedication and commitment that our Government has made in these areas, and many more, I know that more work needs to be done. We have a lot of dedicated people who have worked with us since coming to government, particularly in many of our agencies and also the industry advocacy groups, to make sure that we carried out these reforms. None of the reforms has been easy. If they were easy, Labor members would have done it. But they squibbed it. We have listened to the communities and those in the industry. We have consulted with those who were impacted by the inaction of those opposite and we have made the hard decisions. We have introduced reforms that will put these industries into a much better shape moving forward through the next decades, and we will be judged by the people in those industries in March next year. We are the Government that has listened to them and made the hard decisions. We still do not know what Labor members opposite stand for. The Government knows that they want to rip up biodiversity legislation but we do not know how they will stand up for farmers. We stand up for our farmers and we stand up for our fishers. That is the message we will be repeating during the next four months. [Time expired.] Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1672

SYDNEY OPERA HOUSE The Hon. MARK PEARSON (14:50): My question is directed to the Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts, representing the Premier. Does the Government intend in the near future to utilise the World Heritage listed Sydney Opera House sails as an advertising billboard for gambling operations such as horseracing or greyhound racing, where catastrophic injuries and deaths are rife, such as those that occurred at a recent Melbourne Cup race and the two previous cups? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts) (14:51): The Government promotes and supports the State as a major events capital, recognising that these events are key drivers of investment for the New South Wales economy. The Hon. : Are there any alternative policies? The Hon. DON HARWIN: We know what the alternative policy was: Your leader was out there actively supporting it. That was your policy. Mr David Shoebridge: Point of order— The PRESIDENT: Order! The Minister will resume his seat. The Clerk will stop the clock. Mr David Shoebridge: I fully understand that there will be some responses to interjections but literally pointing at the Hon. Peter Primrose and yelling at him is going too far. The PRESIDENT: I refer to a previous ruling of then President Harwin in 2013: It is out of order for a Minister to respond to interjections when answering a question. I call the Hon. Don Harwin to order for the first time. The Minister has the call. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I would not mind having an early mark. The PRESIDENT: It is a good ruling. The Hon. DON HARWIN: It is an excellent one. The Government is proud of the range of renowned cultural and sporting events that Sydney attracts and hosts throughout the year, including the Vivid festival, the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras, the Sydney Festival, the State of Origin and the National Rugby League Grand Final. Many Sydney hotels reported being at or near 100 per cent occupancy over The Everest weekend, with visitors flocking to Sydney for the race and boosting trade for local retailers, restaurants, bars and transport and tourism operators. The Opera House sails have been lit up on many occasions to highlight major sporting and cultural events in the past, such as for the Wallabies, the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras, the Ashes cricket Test series, the Vivid festival and for Chinese New Year. The Everest, to which the honourable member was clearly referring, is a major event that in its first year injected approximately $50 million into the New South Wales economy, providing jobs for locals and attracting visitors from all over Australia and around the world. In lighting the sails to promote this event, the Government recognised the enormous economic and tourism benefits of The Everest for New South Wales. The Opera House will continue to consider sails-lighting requests against its guidelines, which acknowledge that the Government may decide to light the sails on occasion to promote special events and to encourage tourism. The Everest projection on the Opera House sails was about the Government promoting a major sporting event that, as I said, in its first year injected more than $50 million into the New South Wales economy. In conclusion, any requests to light its sails in line with its policy will be considered. DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT AND RIDGELANDS RESOURCES The Hon. (14:54): My question is directed to the Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts. The Hon. Dr Peter Phelps: Great Minister. The Hon. PENNY SHARPE: No-one likes a suck-up. Given the Minister's confirmation yesterday that the Secretary of the Department of Planning— The Hon. Dr Peter Phelps: He's on my preselection panel. The Hon. PENNY SHARPE: We know you need his vote, but no. Given the Minister's confirmation yesterday that the Secretary of the Department of Planning and Environment has referred allegations of corruption and misconduct in his department to the Independent Commission Against Corruption and the Minister's ongoing refusal to answer questions about the department's involvement in the Ridgelands community fund, will the Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1673

Minister back Labor's call for a full external inquiry into the resources and geoscience division of the Department of Planning and Environment? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts) (14:55): I did not do any such thing yesterday. The allegations that have been raised will be considered by the Independent Commission Against Corruption—and that is the end of the matter. We will await its consideration to see whether it will pursue an investigation. If it pursues an investigation, obviously we will have a look at its recommendations and findings. EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION The Hon. NATASHA MACLAREN-JONES (14:56): I address my question to the Minister for Early Childhood Education, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, and Assistant Minister for Education. Will the Minister update the House on the Government's achievements in early childhood education since January 2017? The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Early Childhood Education, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, and Assistant Minister for Education) (14:56): I thank the honourable member for her question and for her interest in this very important portfolio and policy area. This Government has been, and continues to be, committed to providing the very best early childhood education and care for all children in New South Wales. The Start Strong funding model was implemented in 2017, and is designed to significantly reduce preschool fees, making 600 hours of early childhood education more affordable for families with children in the year before school and for children from Aboriginal families and disadvantaged backgrounds. In the 2017-18 New South Wales budget $217 million was committed over four years for Start Strong for preschool education in community preschools and long day care services, extending Start Strong to 2021. This was the single biggest investment of State funds in early childhood education in our history, and we have seen the success of this investment. Since January 2017, the proportion of children enrolled in an early childhood education program in the year before school has remained above the national benchmark of 95 per cent, as has the proportion of Aboriginal children enrolled in the year before school. The Government also achieved significant improvements in 600-hour enrolments, with more than 98,000 children participating in 600 hours of year-before-school early childhood education in 2017. Last year Start Strong reduced average daily fees for all children across New South Wales by 25 per cent, with the most significant impact being on eligible equity children in our community preschools whose fees decreased by 41 per cent. This is indicative of the success of the policies adopted by the New South Wales Government to encourage participation in early childhood education, which we know has such a significant impact on the social, cognitive and emotional development of our children. In this year's State budget the Government allocated an additional $197.8 million to extend Start Strong subsidies to all three year olds in community preschools in New South Wales, continuing the Government's record investment in preschool education. This extension to Start Strong will ensure universal access to early childhood education for all three- and four-year-old children from all backgrounds, regardless of circumstances, enrolled in community preschools. This year the Disability and Inclusion Program was introduced to ensure that children with disability and additional learning needs are supported to participate meaningfully in early childhood education programs on the same basis as their peers. This program is providing more support for preschools to engage children with disability and additional needs; increased funding for children who need it the most; and a streamlined approach for children and families by aligning the Disability and Inclusion Program with support arrangements available under the National Disability Insurance Scheme and the Start Strong funding model. The Government is committed to not only ensuring access to early childhood education for all children in New South Wales but also ensuring that those children have access to a high-quality program. With more than 5,500 services, New South Wales has responsibility for a third of all services in Australia. The assessment and rating process under the national quality framework is crucial to ensuring a high level of quality is maintained in these early childhood education services. As at 30 June 2017, the New South Wales Government assessed and rated 91.4 per cent of services in New South Wales. That increased to 96.2 per cent as of 30 June this year, which is more than in any other State in the country. I am proud to say that New South Wales has played a significant role in combatting fraud in the family day care sector. At the end of 2016, the number of family day care services in New South Wales had grown by more than 300 per cent. Since that time, we have put a number of successful strategies in place to safeguard the quality of the family day care sector, which has resulted in a decrease in the number of services operating in New South Wales and stronger barriers to entry. I am proud of all that we have achieved in this space in the past few years. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1674

DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT MINING TITLES UNIT Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE (15:00): My question is directed to the the Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, Minister for the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government. Given that, as disclosed in today's Newcastle Herald, an August 2016 agricultural land objection of an 83-year-old farmer to a proposed mine in western New South Wales was lost or ignored by the Minister's department and the mine and licence was then approved regardless, what is the Minister doing to protect that man's rights? Will he refer the matter to the Independent Commission Against Corruption? The PRESIDENT: Order! The question is asked of the Leader of the Government and no other member. The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts) (15:00): I refer Mr David Shoebridge to the answer I gave to a virtually identical question asked earlier today by the Leader of the Opposition. THE NATIONALS ADVISERS The Hon. COURTNEY HOUSSOS (15:01): My question is directed to the Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, Minister for the Arts, and Leader of the Government. Given the Minister's deferred answer, provided on 20 November, that Deputy Premier was the best person to ask about the neo-Nazi infiltration in the Berejiklian Government, is that because the Deputy Premier has a close association with a Nationals operative who has aided, abetted and ultimately benefited from the infiltration? The Hon. Scott Farlow: Point of order: It is well traversed that questions relating to party affairs are not within the remit of the Minister, particularly when that Minister is not even a member of the party that is being referred to. The Hon. Walt Secord: To the point of order: First, the question is directed to the Leader of the Government. Secondly, it emanates from a deferred answer on this subject matter provided in this Chamber on 20 November. It has been previously answered twice by the Minister—or not answered. The PRESIDENT: I call the Hon. to order for the first time. I call the Hon. Mick Veitch to order for the first time. I refer to the ruling of then President Burgmann in 2000: Questions must relate to the conduct of public affairs within the Government's responsibility which could be dealt with by legislative or administrative action. The question is out of order. JOBS GROWTH AND COST OF LIVING The Hon. SCOTT FARLOW (15:03): My question is addressed to the Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, Minister for the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government. Will the Minister update the House on how the Government is supporting jobs growth and reducing cost-of-living pressures across New South Wales, and are there any alternative policies? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts) (15:03): The Liberal Party and The Nationals are the parties of jobs. Under our Government, New South Wales has become the jobs capital of Australia. We have the lowest unemployment rate in the country, at 4.7 per cent. Since 2011, more than half a million jobs have been created in New South Wales—more than in any other State in the Commonwealth. This includes more than 350,000 jobs since the last election, smashing our target of 150,000 jobs. More than 240,000 full-time positions have been created since the last election. That is more in 3½ years than Labor managed in its last decade in office. That tells the story of Labor's mismanagement of this State. New South Wales had the lowest jobs growth on mainland Australia for a decade under the previous Labor Government. Unemployment was above the national average for 62 of Labor's last 68 months in office. The facts are clear: Labor kills jobs. This Government has got on with the job of cleaning up Labor's mess and building a stronger, better future for the people of New South Wales. Labor returning to power would put all of that work at risk. I was asked also about how the Government is reducing cost-of-living pressures in New South Wales. We have heard the concerns about cost of living across the community and we have acted. The Hon. Penny Sharpe: Stronger and better light rail? The PRESIDENT: Order! I call the Hon. Penny Sharpe to order for the first time. The Hon. DON HARWIN: There is certainly stronger and better light rail than under Labor. Parramatta did not have any under Labor. Newcastle did not have any under Labor either. On average, the Government's compulsory third party insurance reforms will save motorists $120 a year. I am trying very hard not to shout but Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1675

it is a bit hard with the noise in the Chamber. We have reduced charges for public hospital parking. That will result in patients who need the most support saving as much as $200 a week. The Hon. Natalie Ward: Point of order: Those opposite may not wish to hear about jobs in New South Wales but I, for one, do. I ask that they keep quiet so that I can hear the Minister answer the question. The PRESIDENT: I was intending to uphold the point of order. That was more of a debating point, but it was an excellent debating point. I remind members that interjections are disorderly at all times. The Hon. DON HARWIN: We have boosted energy rebates by 20 per cent to assist our most vulnerable households and have provided assistance to people to access the best energy deal. The Hon. Scott Farlow: Point of order: I, too, am interested in hearing the Minister's response to my question but I cannot because of the countless interjections from members opposite. I ask that they be called to order. The PRESIDENT: It is bad enough when members interject while the Minister is giving his answer. It is much worse when members interject while a point of order is being taken and I am considering it. I uphold the point of order. There are 22 minutes left in question time. I do not want to have members removed before seasonal felicitations because they will not have the opportunity to thank me for the wonderful job I am doing. I ask members to come to order. The Hon. DON HARWIN: We have reduced water bills across Sydney by $100 a year. We have introduced the Active Kids program, the Creative Kids program, and the list goes on. Further, we have reduced the tax burden on families and businesses, whether it is through our stamp duty and payroll tax reforms or the abolition of six taxes and charges. I thought I would look at how the Opposition's plans to reduce cost-of-living pressures compare. I looked on the Labor website for its positive policies but all I could see was "Page not found". Labor said it had hit the "reset" button under its new leader, but instead it hit "Restore factory settings". Labor members opposite are back to their old tricks—all spin and no substance, cancelling projects, killing jobs, undermining confidence and denying the people of New South Wales the infrastructure, services and support they deserve. All we have seen is a policy for free birth certificates. The Labor Party has had nothing to say on the cost of living for the past eight years and now those opposite are trying to play catch-up. Doing your homework the night before it is due just does not work and neither will Labor's policy on the run. [Time expired.] COASTAL INTEGRATED FORESTRY OPERATIONS APPROVAL Ms DAWN WALKER (15:07): My question is directed to the Minister representing the Minister for Lands and Forestry. In regard to the draft Coastal Integrated Forestry Operations Approval [IFOA], when will this new IFOA be implemented and where? The Hon. NIALL BLAIR (Minister for Primary Industries, Minister for Regional Water, and Minister for Trade and Industry) (15:8): I thank the member for what I believe will be her last question. It is probably no fluke that it is a question in relation to forestry. The members on the Government side of the House and I, as the Minister representing the Minister for Lands and Forestry in this place, know that this has been an area of particular interest for the member. She has been unwavering in her belief and also her advocacy for what she believes is right in relation to this issue. I wish her all the best. She is respected on this side of the House for the way in which she has addressed the issues that she has been responsible for in her time in this House. I commend her for that and wish her all the best for the future. It is my understanding that the Coastal Integrated Forestry Operations Approval is applicable to all of the public lands in which native forestry is undertaken and that it already has commenced. If there is anything else I can provide that may assist the member, I will speak to the Minister's office and obtain further information. However, I believe I have answered her question. MINISTER FOR ROADS, MARITIME AND FREIGHT MINISTERIAL STAFF The Hon. GREG DONNELLY (15:11): My question is directed to the Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, Minister for the Arts, and Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government, representing the Premier. What administrative steps has the Minister or the Premier taken to ensure there are no Nationals staffers with links to the alt-right working in the office the Minister for Roads, Maritime and Freight? The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts) (15:12): I thank the member for his question. I will inquire of the Premier for him. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1676

PRIMARY INDUSTRIES The Hon. BEN FRANKLIN (15:12): My question is addressed to the Minister for Primary Industries, Minister for Regional Water, and Minister for Trade and Industry. Will the Minister update the House on any risks the New South Wales Government has identified to the future viability of primary industries in New South Wales? The Hon. NIALL BLAIR (Minister for Primary Industries, Minister for Regional Water, and Minister for Trade and Industry) (15:12): As members may know, I have a background in risk management and risk identification. It has not taken me long to identify the number one risk to the farmers of this State—they are sitting on the benches on the Opposition side of this Chamber. Those opposite directly pose a risk to the property rights of the farmers of New South Wales, and it does not stop with our farmers. They pose a risk to our fishers too. We know that those opposite, when they come to this side of the Chamber, want to get their hands on some of those areas and complete the unfinished business that they committed to over the years. Now that the Hon. Penny Sharpe has progressed her way up into the leadership group of the Labor Party, she will be making sure she fulfils the commitments she made in 2015, particularly when it comes to a big marine park in the Sydney area. Those opposite pose the biggest risk to our farmers in this State. The Hon. Trevor Khan: Point of order: My point of order relates to the outrageous interjections that are being made by the Hon. Penny Sharpe, who is constantly interrupting the Minister. I would ask that she be thrown out. The PRESIDENT: I remind members that interjections are disorderly. I also remind Ministers that encouraging interjections is also disorderly. The Hon. NIALL BLAIR: We know that Labor members opposite have committed to ripping up our biodiversity legislation because they want to return to the old days of the State Environmental Planning Policy No. 46 that was brought in by Bob Carr. That should be no surprise because the Opposition leader has an office full of people who were advising Bob Carr at the time. That is what we will see on offer from Labor members opposite. The picture of what is on offer is even worse in relation to water, with Labor committing to tearing up projects around the Menindee Lakes. If Labor's policy were implemented, that would ensure more productive water coming out of New South Wales. In fact, that is just scratching the surface. When Labor members opposite start talking about their policies, and if they are in government after the election, we will see what they are going to do to put at risk the viability, sustainability and rights of farmers and fishers. They have got form. They do not listen to those who advocate on behalf of those sectors. The Opposition has one member who represents the interests of farmers and fishers, but that person's voice is overwhelmed by the rest in caucus. We know that organisations who meet with the Labor Opposition do not even get an opportunity to raise their issues. That is clearly reflected by the number of questions we get from Labor members opposite in this House about farmers' issues. This Government will be making sure between now and next March that we remind everyone throughout regional New South Wales of the greatest risk to their viability, to their livelihoods and to the regional sustainability of the industries throughout primary industries: it is Labor members opposite. We have done our best to stand up for our farmers and our fishers and we have supported industries, such as our timber industry. Labor members opposite pose nothing but a risk. Over the next four months when we leave this place and head out into different parts of the State, we will make sure that we meet with as many of those organisations as possible. The Hon. Mick Veitch: You are going out in four months? I am going out tomorrow. The Hon. NIALL BLAIR: The member said he will start tomorrow. We started eight years ago, and he is starting tomorrow. We have been out and about since 2011 cleaning up the former Labor Government's mess. We will continue to remind everyone that Labor poses a risk. They are going to start work tomorrow. We have been going for eight years. [Time expired.] GAMBLING ADDICTION The Hon. PAUL GREEN (15:16): My question is directed to the Minister representing the Minister for Health. Recently a man committed suicide in the northern beaches area after a 13-hour binge on poker machines. Months before he took his life, his wife had pleaded with RSL workers to try to curb his gambling addiction. This week the Sydney Morning Herald reported a 9 per cent spike in suicide rates in just one year. Will the Minister explain what initiatives the Government is putting in place to protect at-risk individuals who suffer from gambling addictions and what can be done to hold establishments accountable for situations such as this? The Hon. NIALL BLAIR (Minister for Primary Industries, Minister for Regional Water, and Minister for Trade and Industry) (15:16): Although the question is directed to the Minister for Health because Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1677

of the link to suicide and suicide prevention, I will take the question on notice and ascertain whether it should be better referred to the Minister responsible for gaming. I represent both Ministers in this House. The part of the question that refers to gambling addiction and the relevant programs would be better referred to the Minister for Racing. I am happy to take the question on notice to ensure that the relevant Minister and the relevant agencies provide as much information as possible to the Hon. Paul Green. As I said in my earlier response to Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile's question, suicide affects every demographic—some more than others—in every part of this State. There are many contributors that can lead to a person thinking that getting on with life is too hard. The Hon. Paul Green has a particular interest in addressing this issue. I will take the question on notice, refer it to the appropriate Ministers and will provide information from perhaps both the Department of Health and the Minister for Racing. MINISTER FOR ROADS, MARITIME AND FREIGHT MINISTERIAL STAFF The Hon. WALT SECORD (15:20): My question is directed to the Minister for Primary Industries, representing the Minister for Roads, Maritime and Freight. In the light of community concerns over the office of —that a National Party ministerial staffer, who has been involved with the neo-Nazis within The Nationals was given paid leave to work for candidates with alt-right links in the recent United States mid-term elections—what steps has Minister Pavey taken to remove this individual from her office and limit his influence on her portfolio, responsibilities and decisions? The Hon. NIALL BLAIR (Minister for Primary Industries, Minister for Regional Water, and Minister for Trade and Industry) (15:21): I thank the member for his question and for demonstrating the new standards that are being implemented by the new leadership of the Opposition. The Hon. Walt Secord: Do you want his name? The Hon. NIALL BLAIR: Will the member let me answer the question, or will he continue to lower the standards of his whole team? The Hon. Walt Secord: Point of order: The Minister is reflecting on me as an individual, and by refusing to root out the individuals referred to in my question he also is lowering the standard of this Parliament. The Hon. Don Harwin: To the point of order: The Hon. Walt Secord took a point of order, then proceeded to make a debating point. The Minister did not use any offensive words and there is no case for withdrawal. I suggest that because so much of the member's contribution was taken up with a debating point and a reflection on the Minister, the Hon. Walt Secord's point of order should be entirely discounted. The Hon. Walt Secord: Further to the point of order: My comments were not a reflection on the Minister. This is a serious public policy debate about integrity. The Minister introduced the issue of standards to the debate. In fact, this whole question goes to standards. I will leave it at that. The PRESIDENT: First, although this was not raised, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition began interjecting immediately after he asked his question. That is disorderly. Secondly, I believe the Minister was responding to the Hon. Walt Secord's interjections. The Minister should not respond to interjections. Thirdly, when the Deputy Leader of the Opposition first spoke to the point of order, he clearly made a debating point. The Leader of the Government was correct in stating that the Hon. Walt Secord's point of order was mostly a debating point. I uphold that part of the Hon. Don Harwin's comment. When the Deputy Leader of the Opposition again spoke, it was to make a further debating point in relation to the point of order. As it went back and forth, it is difficult to decide who to call to order, so I will call no-one to order. The Minister was being generally relevant and he should not respond to interjections. The Minister has the call. The Hon. NIALL BLAIR: The part of the question that relates to the Minister for Roads, Maritime and Freight and administrative procedures or the operation of her office I am happy to take on notice, refer it to the Minister and come back to the member in due course. As a member of The Nationals and former chairman of The Nationals, I make clear that our party has no room for anyone with views or ideas that oppose what we believe in. Anyone who wants to know what The Nationals believe in should go to our website and read the "We Believe" document. It states that we oppose anyone who works against freedom or democracy and holds political or social views that would put those principles in jeopardy. That is in writing and that is what our members sign up to when they join the NSW Nationals. Every good person who has joined the party and has read that statement would join with me in condemning anyone in our party who holds a view or takes an action that is contradictory to those values that we believe in, which we have stated in writing. Further, I condemn anyone in my party, in the Labor Party or anywhere else in society who holds those views and who will oppose or put any sort of shadow over democracy or freedom, particularly through their social or political views. There is no room in The Nationals for people who hold those Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1678

views. The party organisation has dealt with those whose values do not match the beliefs of The Nationals. Those people are no longer in the party. I am happy to put that on the record. As part of the leadership group of The Nationals in the New South Wales Parliament, I will take any action to support our party organisation to ensure that anyone who does not hold our values no longer has a place in our party. I will take the rest of the question on notice and the Minister can provide an answer about the administrative procedures in her office. I want to make it clear that the small number of individuals referred to in the member's question, who are no longer members of our party, clearly did not live up to the standards and beliefs of our party. They do not reflect the membership of the NSW Nationals. I am proud of the vast majority of our members, who live by those values every day. Those values helped someone like me, who was not interested in politics, to find my way to The Nationals. I was frustrated about a particular issue in my community. I was looking to join a political party and read the "We Believe" statement. I found that I agreed with every one of the statements and I decided to commit myself to The Nationals. It is a two-way street: The party must ensure that its members uphold those statements. There is no room in our party, or in any party in this country, for people with those views, as stated in the member's question. If anyone thinks that this is not taken seriously by The Nationals, they are mistaken. The Hon. WALT SECORD (15:25): I ask a supplementary question. Will the Minister elucidate his answer in regard to his comments that people with those views have no place in his party and do not adhere to the "We Believe" statement? Will he move to expel Jock Sowter and Jeff McCormack? The Hon. Scott Farlow: Point of order: The supplementary question was not seeking an elucidation of the Minister's answer. It was a new question that did not arise from the Minister's answer. The PRESIDENT: The supplementary question went much further than the answer provided by the Minister. The Hon. Walt Secord specifically named individuals. The Minister did not go down the path of naming individuals: He spoke generally. The supplementary question is out of order. EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION The Hon. NATALIE WARD (15:27): My question is addressed to the Minister for Early Education, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, and Assistant Minister for Education. Will the Minister remind the House how the New South Wales Government is supporting more children accessing 600 hours of quality early childhood education? The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL (Minister for Early Childhood Education, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, and Assistant Minister for Education) (15:29): I thank the member for her question. I am delighted that we will finish question time this year with a question about early childhood education. I am conscious of the time. Even though I could easily take my full four minutes to talk about this matter, I do not want to interrupt the seasonal felicitations. I have always wanted to use that word in Hansard—and now I have. The Hon. Don Harwin: Or anything else that might be coming. The Hon. SARAH MITCHELL: That is true. I will be condensing my comments a little bit. Members on the Government side of the House understand just how important early childhood education is. When it comes to delivery, the record of this Government speaks for itself. We have continued to break new ground right across the board with record spending to make sure that early childhood education has not been left behind. Thanks to our record $474 million investment, more children will have the opportunity to attend quality early childhood education and reap the rewards associated with that. We know that children who access quality early childhood education are better prepared for the future socially, emotionally and intellectually. As I said in answer to an earlier question today, and I will not go over it all again, we are continuing our work to fund three-year-olds in community preschools, and participation rates are continuing to increase. Thanks to Start Strong, 40 per cent more children are now participating in preschool programs and getting the start in life they deserve. The Government is particularly proud of its continued investment in vital early childhood education infrastructure. I am pleased to advise that applications recently closed for the latest round of capital works funding, which is all about helping preschools in areas of high demand to increase places. I take this opportunity to remind the House that successful applications under previous rounds of funding included: KU Westmead, in the Granville electorate, which received nearly $900,000; the Warilla Baptist Preschool, in Shellharbour, which received nearly $200,000; the Adamstown Heights Preschool, in Charlestown, which received $343,000; and the Happy Days Kindergarten, at Wentworthville in the Prospect electorate, which received nearly $1 million to increase preschool places. Government members are committed to delivering outcomes for all of our children and giving them access to early childhood education. I am proud of the work that Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1679

we are doing. We lead the country in giving children access to two years of quality early childhood education without putting undue financial pressure on families. I cannot wait to keep working in this very important area. The Hon. DON HARWIN: That's all folks! The time for questions has expired. If members have further questions I suggest they place them on notice. Deferred Answers MATTHEW FRASER COMMENTS In reply to the Hon. WALT SECORD (18 October 2018). The Hon. NIALL BLAIR (Minister for Primary Industries, Minister for Regional Water, and Minister for Trade and Industry)—The Minister provided the following response: The comments referenced in Mr Secord's question were not made by an elected representative or employee of the New South Wales Government. Therefore this is not a matter for the New South Wales Government. Any questions relating to private citizens should be directed to that citizen. Any questions relating to membership of the NSW Nationals should be directed to the party secretariat. SILICA EXPOSURE In reply to the Hon. PAUL GREEN (18 October 2018). The Hon. NIALL BLAIR (Minister for Primary Industries, Minister for Regional Water, and Minister for Trade and Industry)—The Minister provided the following response:  New South Wales operates under model (national) work, health and safety [WHS] laws. Safe Work Australia is responsible for the laws.  Under the model WHS laws, the employer must ensure no person at the workplace is exposed to a substance (such as silica) that exceeds the Australian Workplace Exposure Standard for the substance.  The employer must also manage work health and safety risks by eliminating them so far as is reasonably practicable. If it is not reasonably practicable to eliminate the risks, those risks must be minimised so far as reasonably practicable. This includes ensuring workers have the correct safety measures in place to eliminate or minimise the risks in their work.  For silica, this includes the necessary training, instruction and supervision, providing the safety data sheets, having adequate ventilation systems, installing dust capture systems on portable tools, wetting down stone, providing personal protective equipment such as masks and respirators, and not using compressed air to remove or clean up settled dust.  Businesses should also conduct regular air monitoring to confirm that silica dust is not exceeding the exposure standard and provide health monitoring to workers.  SafeWork NSW Inspectors check what measures are in place during their visits. If safety measures are inadequate, they may issue improvement or prohibition notices to rectify or escalate for prosecution. Silica exposure is 100 per cent preventable if the correct safety measures are in place.  Following a 2016/17 pilot program, SafeWork NSW launched its five-year 2017-2022 Chemical Strategy in October 2017 with the initial focus on the top two priority chemicals/materials (from over 40,000 chemicals in Australia), one of which is silica.  The strategy consists of four key components for SafeWork NSW intervention:  awareness (webinars, factsheets, video safety alerts, social media)  interactions (workplace visits, conferences, events)  research (health monitoring, international modelling, medical testing)  legislation (review of WHS laws, workplace exposure standards, supporting guidance material and/or codes of practice).  Since the launch there has been:  state-wide training for 156 SafeWork NSW inspectors so they can spot and address the dangers of silicosis  351 visits undertaken, with 176 inspector notices issued  targeted industry presentations and meetings at 26 locations, with three safety forums scheduled for February 2019 in Western Sydney, Newcastle/Hunter and South Coast locations  distribution of 3,189 safety fact sheets to identified businesses, as well as via the relevant industry associations and government departments, and translated into Arabic, Chinese (Mandarin), Hindi and Vietnamese  promotion of a health monitoring webinar, which has received 337 views and 368 views of the silica webpage  safety rebates of $500 to 24 businesses to improve work safety systems Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1680

. general awareness through media releases issued in October 2017 and July 2018 and social media posts (23 October 2017, 24 October 2017, 9 March 2018, 26 March 2018, 2 July 2018, 23 July 2018 and 15 November 2018) with reach of 14,700 . introduction of a Manufactured Stone Industry Taskforce—convened by SafeWork NSW and comprising industry, peak bodies, medical professionals, unions and other government agencies including the Lung Foundation, Australian Industry Group and Unions NSW.  Dust Diseases Care is supporting SafeWork NSW's inspection program by providing subsidised health monitoring in Sydney and regional New South Wales. A total of 2,070 workers exposed to silica have undergone health monitoring provided by Dust Diseases Care last year, with Dust Diseases Care to continue supporting SafeWork's five-year Chemicals Strategy to June 2022.  A further multi-channel awareness campaign was recently released on 16 November 2018, that includes a press release, radio, print, digital advertising, social media and a video safety alert, with Taskforce members and industry stakeholders also distributing the content through their networks.  The radio advertisements are through the Triple M network and is in language for Arabic, Hindi, Korean, Mandarin and Vietnamese workers through the SBS radio networks. The factsheets have also been translated in these languages and are available on the SafeWork NSW website.  The Taskforce has completed the regulatory review component of its work, with the recommendations approved by me on 8 November 2018. The Taskforce's findings fall within three portfolios—work health and safety (WHS), Health and Education—and I have written to the respective Ministers to request support for these recommendations.  Silicosis has also been raised in submissions to the national review of the Work Health and Safety Model Laws being conducted by an independent reviewer, which is due to report in December 2018.  Senior WHS Officials will be meeting in November 2018 to consider the update from the SafeWork NSW Taskforce and other jurisdictions taking action on this issue. CHILD PROSTITUTION In reply to the Hon. PAUL GREEN (18 October 2018). The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts)—The Minister provided the following response: I am advised: The New South Wales Government strongly opposes child prostitution. It is a serious criminal offence to promote or engage in child prostitution, obtain a benefit from child prostitution, or use premises for child prostitution. Significant penalties apply under the Crimes Act 1900, including lengthy periods of imprisonment. If any person suspects that a sex worker is under the age of 18 years, the matter should be reported to the NSW Police Force immediately. A number of New South Wales Government and Commonwealth Government agencies also play a role in ensuring that brothels operate within the current legal framework, including local councils, SafeWork NSW, NSW Health and the Commonwealth Department of Home Affairs. WATERNSW In reply to the Hon. PENNY SHARPE (18 October 2018). The Hon. NIALL BLAIR (Minister for Primary Industries, Minister for Regional Water, and Minister for Trade and Industry)—The Minister provided the following response: WaterNSW measures water flows in rivers across the State through a network of gauging stations, and publishes this information on its website at https://realtimedata.waternsw.comn.au/. To calculate water flow, a rating table is established by making a number of concurrent observations of river level and flow/discharge over a period of time covering the expected range of levels at the river gauging section. As stream channels are subject to change due to environmental conditions (for example, the drying out of a river bed, weed growth, natural debris or changing dimensions of a channel) this will have an impact on the accuracy of data collected. To manage this, WaterNSW applies the National Guidelines and Australian Standards for stage-discharge relationship management to all of its gauging stations. The procedures used are part of an accredited Quality Management System maintained by WaterNSW. In applying these guidelines, WaterNSW regularly reviews and adjusts the raw data on its website. This ensures accurate water flow information is available for operational decisions at all times. With regard to specific sites in the eastern Macquarie Marshes, WaterNSW recently corrected the data recorded at gauging station 421146 Gum Cowal @ Bifurcations. This site contains a regulated structure that is predominately used to deliver environmental water into the eastern Macquarie Marshes. Investigations revealed there had been some changes to the channel which had changed the flows at some heights. WaterNSW subsequently updated the data at this gauging station to more accurately reflect flow conditions. This update has not impacted on WaterNSW's ability to deliver water to the environment. In July, WaterNSW fulfilled an environment flow into Gum Cowal on behalf of the Office of Environment and Heritage, delivering 10,900ML. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1681

MANUFACTURED STONE INDUSTRY SAFETY STANDARDS In reply to Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE (18 October 2018). The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts)—The Minister provided the following response: This is a matter for SafeWork NSW which is leading this taskforce. As such, this question is more properly directed to the Minister for Innovation and Better Regulation, the Hon. Matt Kean, MP. REGIONAL CULTURAL FUND In reply to the Hon. COURTNEY HOUSSOS (18 October 2018). The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts)—The Minister provided the following response: Funding for the $7.4 million Twyford Theatre Project is from the $1.6 billion Regional Growth Fund NSW KOALA STRATEGY In reply to Ms DAWN WALKER (18 October 2018). The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts)—The Minister provided the following response: The New South Wales Government has committed $45 million to its Koala Strategy which will provide more natural habitat for koalas, tackle diseases, improve research and fix roadkill hotspots. The New South Wales Government has also committed $20 million to purchase land with prime koala habitat that can be permanently reserved as national parks. Koala habitat will also be protected on other types of public land, for example on Crown land and travelling stock reserves. PRISONER ESCORT DUTIES In reply to Reverend the Hon. FRED NILE (18 October 2018). The Hon. NIALL BLAIR (Minister for Primary Industries, Minister for Regional Water, and Minister for Trade and Industry)—The Minister provided the following response: I am advised: Section 33 of the Mental Health (Forensic Provisions) Act 1990 (the Act) was amended to enable Correctional Officers to safely transport some defendants between courts and mental health facilities for mental health assessments. Bills GOVERNMENT SECTOR FINANCE LEGISLATION (REPEAL AND AMENDMENT) BILL 2018 SAINT PAUL'S COLLEGE BILL 2018 PUBLIC WORKS AND PROCUREMENT AMENDMENT (ENFORCEMENT) BILL 2018 HEALTH LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL (NO 3) 2018 CRIMES (ADMINISTRATION OF SENTENCES) LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL 2018 CONVEYANCING LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL 2018 COMBAT SPORTS AMENDMENT BILL 2018 Assent The PRESIDENT: I report receipt of a message from the Governor notifying His Excellency's assent to the abovementioned bills. Committees LEGISLATION REVIEW COMMITTEE Report: Inquiry into the Operation of the Legislation Review Act 1987 The Hon. NATASHA MACLAREN-JONES: I table the report of the Legislation Review Committee entitled "Inquiry into the Operation of the Legislation Review Act 1987", dated November 2018. I move: That the report be printed. Motion agreed to. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1682

Documents TABLING OF PAPERS The Hon. SCOTT FARLOW: I table the following papers: (1) Annual Reports (Departments) Act 1985—Report of Department of Premier and Cabinet for year ended 30 June 2018, together with financial statements. (2) Annual Reports (Statutory Bodies) Act 1984—Reports for year ended 30 June 2018: Barangaroo Delivery Authority Greater Sydney Commission Independent Pricing and Regulatory Tribunal Infrastructure NSW Natural Resources Commission New South Wales Electoral Commission Parliamentary Counsel's Office Public Service Commission UrbanGrowth NSW Development Corporation. (3) Report of Public Service Commission entitled "State of the NSW Public Sector Report 2018". I move: That the reports be printed. Motion agreed to. Condolences DEATH OF THE HON. ELIZABETH ANN SYMONDS, AM, A FORMER MEMBER OF THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL The Hon. PENNY SHARPE (15:33): I move: (1) That this House notes with sadness the death of Elizabeth Ann Symonds, AM, former member of the New South Wales Legislative Council. (2) That this House notes that: (a) Ann Symonds was a member of the New South Wales Legislative Council for 16 years, from 8 September 1982 to 30 April 1998; (b) Ann was Deputy Chair and then Chair of the Social Issues Committee from 1988 to 1998 when she was responsible for more than 10 parliamentary inquiries into youth violence, children's advocacy, sexual violence, children of imprisoned parents, guardianship, aged care and nursing homes, and hepatitis C; (c) Ann was a co-founder of the Australian Parliamentary Group for Drug Law Reform and had considerable impact on drug law reform during her time in Parliament, including her role as Chair of the 1997-98 Joint Select Committee of the inquiry into the establishment or trial of safe injecting rooms; (d) Ann was involved in many other issues including gun law reform, women's rights, support for the arts community, advocacy for services for Indigenous people, the antinuclear movement, and equal rights for lesbian, gay, bi, trans and intersex [LGBTI] people; and (e) in 2015, Ann was appointed a member of the Order of Australia for significant services to social justice, particularly through drug law reform, and to the Parliament of New South Wales. (3) That this House passes on its deepest condolences to Ann's family and the many community members who will miss her warmth, her courage, and her humour. (4) That this resolution be communicated by the President to the family of Ann Symonds. I move this motion to recognise the life and contribution of Elizabeth Ann Symonds to the people of New South Wales and to send the Legislative Council's condolences to Ann's family. Ann Symonds was a member of the New South Wales Legislative Council for 16 years: from 8 September 1982 to 30 April 1998. Ann was a woman of great passion, great courage and great humour. She was also my friend, my mentor and someone for whom the Labor family mourns greatly. I know from the reactions of the staff in the building, the community groups, the former public servants and her former colleagues from all sides of the Parliament that she will be deeply missed by all who worked with her over the 16 years she was here and the 20 years since she left this place. Ann was born on 12 July 1939 at Murwillumbah. She trained as a teacher at the Armidale Teacher's College and the University of New South Wales. An activist all her life, Ann joined the Labor Party in 1967 and Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1683

she became an alderman—as they were called then—in 1974, before becoming the first woman to be the Deputy Mayor at Waverly council. Ann was Deputy Chair and then Chair of the Committee on Social Issues from 1988 to 1998, and was responsible for more than 10 parliamentary inquiries during that time. She became the Chair of the Committee on Social Issues in 1995, as part of the incoming Carr Government. In this role, Ann conducted inquiries into youth violence, children's advocacy, sexual violence, children of imprisoned parents, guardianship, aged care and nursing homes, and hepatitis C. These were groundbreaking inquiries, which shaped social policy for the decades that have followed. In the early days of the current parliamentary committee system, Ann, Max Willis and other members of the committee led the way on pursuing a bipartisan approach as the most effective way to see meaningful policy development and legislative change. This culture of genuine collaboration and unanimous reports and recommendations continues to this day. As the staff who worked in the secretariat knew, Ann took the role of Chair very seriously, and asked a lot from members and the secretariats. Ann's commitment to the Committee on Social Issues resulted in the formation of close relationships with members and staff. Many friendships continued well after she left this place. I acknowledge Julie Langsworth, who became a great friend of Ann's, and thank her for her input to this motion today. Ann was most particularly concerned about the plight of children and young people. She was one of our greatest ever advocates for young people. In her foreword to the children's advocacy report, Ann described it this way: Advocacy for children is about systems and individuals recognising the rights and needs of all children and young people and responding to those rights and needs. It also involves allowing children and young people to have a say in the decisions that are likely to affect them. Ann's work on the rights and needs of vulnerable children and families included the inquiry into children of imprisoned parents. She was passionate about reforms to the criminal justice system. In fact, she nominated Corrective Services as the one ministry she would have liked to have headed up. This is one area where Ann was deeply involved before, during and after her time in Parliament. She never stopped advocating for the rights and needs of children of incarcerated parents and their family members. Ann was involved in many other issues: gun law reform, support for the arts community, advocacy for services for Indigenous people, the anti-nuclear movement, the rights of sex workers and equal rights for lesbian, gay, bi, trans and intersex [LGBTI] people. The reality also was that Ann's strong advocacy on many of these issues meant that she would never become a Minister in a Labor Government. However, she did not let this deter her work for change and Labor missed an opportunity for a reformist Minister to make her mark. Ann was a co-founder of the Australian Parliamentary Group for Drug Law Reform. In 1990, with Michael Moore, an independent member of Parliament from the Australian Capital Territory Legislative Assembly, a group of more than 100 members from across State and Federal parliaments formed a group—which she literally signed me up to on the first day I was in the Parliament. Ann had considerable impact on drug law reform during her time at Parliament. She moved New South Wales towards a more compassionate, evidence-based drug policy. She was Chair of the 1993 Joint Select Committee into Safe Injecting Rooms, which conducted the inquiry into the trial or establishment of a safe injecting room. Despite the evidence detailed in the report that safe injecting rooms can and do save lives, Ann was disappointed not to have succeeded in getting support for such a facility via this inquiry—the political will was not there at that time. Ann and others, including Dr Alex Wodak and Tony Trimingham, continued to advocate for the establishment of a safe injecting room. This included their act of civil disobedience in establishing their own first injecting room, called the "tolerance room", in the Wayside Chapel at Kings Cross. Some 1,116 young Australians had lost their lives to drug overdoses that year. The time was finally ripe after lengthy debate during the 1999 NSW Drug Summit at Parliament House—held in this Chamber—and the Carr Government, with John Della Bosca as Minister, established the medically supervised injecting centre. Ann made this observation about the importance of committee reports on the back of this experience: I always say to people, 'You have to do the best reports. Do not limit yourself in what you put in. You have to put forward what you really want, because you never know when someone will want to pick it up and do something with it.' And that was what eventually happened when an injecting room was set up. Ann as a parliamentarian was a sight to behold—smart, irreverent and passionate about everything she did. She was not beyond going after those from her own side when they displeased her. But a mark of Ann's approach to her time here was her capacity to get on with people from all parties. Political persuasions did not really matter too much to Ann. She made friends with and John Tingle. Besides sharing the joys of a dry martini, John and Ann were most definitely at the opposite ends of the debate on gun law reform. Nevertheless, there was a genuine mutual respect and good humour between them. At the retirement of Ann, John Tingle noted in his speech in this House that the important lesson Ann taught him was: Animosity reflected in the Chamber should never be carried outside it. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1684

Ann had a particular soft spot for National Party members Adrian Solomons and Doug Moppett. Ann and Doug were to grow particularly close, mostly due to their work together on the social issues committee. Ann referred to Doug during debate on the social issues committee reports as the "the only intellectual in the National Party". The feeling was mutual between Doug and Ann, as shown by his tribute to Ann upon her retirement when he said: Well done, Ann, thou good and faithful servant. The respite from your labours that you seek is well deserved and has been thoroughly earned. You go from this place gowned in our friendship, adorned by our unqualified admiration and crowned by our ineffable love. Some of Ann's strongest connections were with women members, and one of her closest colleagues was Meredith Burgmann. As Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile will remember, Ann was an unceasing, witty and sometimes fierce interjector when sitting on these benches. Ann and Meredith were often referred to as Marge Simpson's cranky sisters Patty and Selma. Ann also forged great relationships with Virginia Chadwick, Jenny Gardiner, Helen Sham Ho and Beryl Evans. I stand here today as someone for whom the life and legacy of Ann Symonds looms large. I came to this place after the departure of Carmel Tebbutt to the other place. It was, of course, Carmel Tebbutt who replaced Ann Symonds when she retired from this place in 1998. I have always felt that I have a responsibility to be a voice for the issues that Ann cared about in this place, not because they were Ann's but because they go to the heart of how we care for the most vulnerable and often the most marginalised people in our community. As a young woman in the Labor party and from the Left of the Labor Party I always knew that Ann had my back. On my first day here a bottle of champagne arrived with two very posh glasses, from Ann. It was followed by many visits and calls from Ann where she cajoled, dragooned and convinced me to do many things, including joining the Parliamentary Friends of Drug Law Reform and going to visit Guthrie House, which is the accommodation service for women leaving prison. She introduced me to Scarlett Alliance and Family Drug Support. She brought in the people from SHINE for Kids and too many other organisations and individuals to name. Just last week I was the parliamentary host for a new organisation that Ann had helped to found, the Penthos Foundation. It is a group working to support the mental health of people with profound grief, usually as the result of the loss of a child. Ann taught me that all relationships are valuable and that finding common ground is essential to moving an issue forward and it is more important than the idea of simply winning. She also taught me that preparation, persistence and tenacity are required to make real and lasting change. We may not win the first time we try to change something but we know that when the window of opportunity again opens we have to be ready to step through it. It is 20 years since Ann Symonds retired from this place. She struggled with ill health the entire time, but she never stopped pursing the issues she cared about. I thank her for her support, advice and the sneaky glasses of champagne. I send condolences to Rachel, David, Kathy, Michael and Meredith on behalf of the members of this place as well as the staff of the Parliament. We thank them for sharing Ann with us. Vale Ann Symonds. The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts) (15:43): I say at the outset how happy I am that the last matter of substantive business today, despite the sadness it causes, is to discuss the contribution of a former honourable member who embraced and embodied so many of the good qualities of our House. Time has not diminished them, even though there have been some changes. Some would regret the fact that after crashed John Tingle's martini party they had to end. I know that Ann Symonds and John Tingle understood that after the House was concluded there was nothing wrong with members getting together and sharing some conviviality and collegiality. Unfortunately, that was not how Lee Rhiannon saw it. I will not take that any further because today is about noting with sadness the death of Elizabeth Ann Symonds and discussing her contribution. Ann was a member of the Legislative Council for 16 years and dedicated her time in this place to a range of social issues that were dear to her. Those issues ranged from drug law reform and women's rights through to youth services and equity for Aboriginal people. As she said in her inaugural speech, she came to this place not out of a desire to enter Parliament but because, as she said, "The top people said, 'Ann you've got to put yourself forward'." While she was not successful at the 1981 election, a casual vacancy later arose and the rest, of course, is history. Like many former members, including three Presidents, Ann Symonds grew up in Murwillumbah. Having been born in Murwillumbah in 1939, Ann completed her teacher's education in Armidale and moved to Sydney in 1960. It was after settling in the eastern suburbs that she joined the Labor Party. She served as an alderman on the Waverley Municipal Council from 1974 to 1977 and as the first female Deputy Mayor of Waverley in 1977 before entering the Parliament. During her time in this place Ann did not serve as part of the Executive; however, she made a particularly fine contribution as the Deputy Chair and later the Chair of the social issues committee from 1988 to 1998. As a result, she was able to champion issues that were close to her heart. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1685

She joined this place in a different era not long after members were directly elected. Ann recounted in her contribution to the Legislative Council Oral History Project in 2016 that the time she was a member of this place was one in which there was a greater contrast between the functions of the Houses, and between the Legislative Council and the Executive with only one Minister in this place. Indeed, she recounted that when she was first elected Labor members of this House were not admitted to caucus—a position she supported—until they were popularly elected and full time. However, while practices might have changed, what has stood the test of time is the ability of members to work across the aisle and across parties to achieve positive policy outcomes. Ann recounted fondly her work with other female members, most notably Virginia Chadwick and Meredith Burgmann, on policy areas of mutual interest, particularly advancing women's rights in relation to homelessness, housing and women in prison at a time when there were fewer women in the Parliament. That advocacy across the aisle is not dissimilar to the collaboration that has occurred recently on issues such as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, intersex [LGBTI] reform. After leaving Parliament in 1998 her advocacy continued as part of the Drug Summit called by the Carr Government after the 1999 election. I think that was the time I first met her, although it may have been earlier when I was a staffer. I will put on record some observations made about Ann by former Liberal members. On 29 April 1998 Virginia Chadwick said in response to Ann's valedictory speech: One of the great things about being a member of Parliament, as Ann alluded to, is that many of us come to this place with preconceived ideas about people who belong to other political parties. One of the great joys is being able to find out that the world is not black and white, but is fairly woolly and grey. People like Ann make sure we remember that we are individuals first and foremost. They actually make it a pleasure for us to get to know others who have views that we assumed would be diametrically opposed to ours. More often than not, it turns out that there is more common ground than different ground. I would also like to mention some comments from the Hon. John Jobling: Even though Ann was strongly pro-Labor in her views, she had a wicked sense of humour and was very easy to get along with, all the while trying to subtly change your views on issues. I do not know if this is true, but he made the following observation: I think she was liked by more people outside Labor than within it. I will leave that for Labor members to judge; I am in no position to do that. That could not be said of the emotional and sincere comments that the Hon. Penny Sharpe made earlier. The Hon. Brian Pezzutti said: I am very sad she's gone. She was a beautiful person who I had lots of contact with in my time as a member of the upper House. She made a huge contribution, particularly to the social issues committee, especially working on adoption law reform. Finally, from my good friend the Hon. John Ryan, who had quite a bit to say: Ann was a wonderful combination of the intensely serious and beguilingly cheeky. She was the lover of many "unlovely" causes, where she was often ridiculed initially only to be proven right in the long term. She was a passionate advocate for harm minimisation approaches to countering alcohol and drug abuse, HIV and AlDS and alternative approaches in corrections. She provocatively and proudly called her herself a socialist and yet she won enormous respect from Coalition members even those who strongly disagreed with her because they admired her courage, conviction and enjoyed her disarming sense of humour. It didn't hurt that her wit was aimed just as frequently at the members who sat behind her as much as those on our side. Ann was so much more than a member of Parliament. She tirelessly networked and coordinated numerous social justice groups. At her invitation, I joined one of the groups she had established called Guthrie House which was an NGO that operated a house providing accommodation support for women at the verge of entering or just leaving corrections. She will be long remembered for her work championing the cause of mothers and babies in prisons and who knows how many lives she touched and changed. With those few observations of my own and on behalf of those four very fine former members of this House, on behalf of the Government, I thank Elizabeth Ann Symonds, AM, for her service to this Parliament and the people of New South Wales. We express our deepest sympathy to her family, friends and loved ones at no doubt what is a very difficult time. The Hon. ADAM SEARLE (15:52): As Leader of the Labor Party in this place, I associate myself and our party as a whole with the motion moved by the Hon. Penny Sharpe and the words she has given this Chamber, as well as the sentiments expressed by the Leader of the Government in this place. Ann was a warm and loving person with extravagant passions about people, politics and causes. She was great fun to be around and was inspirational for those of us interested in and serious about political life. As a person who came to political awareness and activism in the 1960s and1970s, she always retained a sense of optimism about what could be achieved through parliamentary politics to address the many issues that came to the fore in our society at that time. She was a passionate advocate for social change in many ways. I will not recount them all, but particularly drug law reform, the rights of children of prisoners and equal rights for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, intersex [LGBTI] people were just some of the causes for which she wore out the carpet in the corridors, knocking on Ministers' doors. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1686

I came to know Ann well when I worked for the Hon. Jeff Shaw, who was a Minister and member of this Chamber. She was indefatigable, not to say exhausting, knocking on his door and knocking on the door of the Hon. Bob Debus, the then Minister for Corrections. She was always advocating to push the envelope to make the changes to create a fairer, safer, more humane society for us all. As Ann used to impress on people, including me as a young political activist, the way we and society treat the most vulnerable in our communities, the people who need help the most, who are often unlovely people and very difficult people, and how we deal with those issues is the measure of how good our society is Mr David Shoebridge: Stop looking at me! The Hon. ADAM SEARLE: I was not looking at you.. That is a lesson that Ann liked to impress on people who wanted to enter politics. She saw herself first and foremost as an activist for social change, definitely not as a career politician. Her pursuit of issues that she cared about and those she believed passionately needed to be addressed came first, not her personal advancement. The Hon. Penny Sharpe has made the point that her adherence to those causes and her principled and unrelenting pursuit of change in those areas are probably what cost her a ministerial career, which of course cost the State having a very good person who would have made a fine contribution to Executive Government. Ann was an unashamedly radical on the Left of politics. She was an inspiration to many younger activists who have followed her into politics and into this place. She never took a backwards step. She always said what she thought needed to be said to whomever she thought it needed to be said, irrespective of their rank or any of those sorts of considerations. Ann continued to pursue the issues close to her heart, even after she departed elected office, and she particularly continued to remain in contact with me about issues associated with drug law reform, about which she felt very passionately. If I had to sum up one word to describe Ann, it would be passionate. She made a huge impression on a whole generation of activists in the Labor Party, not only on the Left. I was extremely fond of her and I believe she, perhaps not directly, has had a profound impact on the Labor side of politics. Our condolences go to her family at this time. Mr (15:57): I speak on behalf of The Greens, in particular, my colleague Jan Barham, who asked if I could put some words on record in support of this condolence motion on the passing of Ann Symonds. I apologise to the House for reading from my phone, but this comes directly from Ms Barham: I first met Ann when I came to work with Ian Cohen in the Legislative Council in 1995. I knew of Ann from the amazing body of work she had done previously as a social justice campaigner. She had been on the Social Justice Committee and I was inspired by her passion and commitment to seeking reform for the disadvantaged and vulnerable. I had the pleasure and privilege of working closely with Ann during the Safe Injecting Rooms inquiry and with the Parliamentary Friends for Drug Law Reform Group. After Ann's retirement, I maintained a friendship with her. We would meet for coffee and a chat and she provided inspiration in terms of my priorities for public life. When she visited her birthplace on the North Coast, we would meet up and she would tell me great stories about the past, and who had her back and who caused her grief. I realised in these stories there was wisdom and guidance. And Ann's willingness to mentor women, and thankfully me, in the rough and tumble of politics was part of her generous spirit. She had been through a lot, but always stood her ground and knew what was right. Ann was also fabulous at searching out allies for the causes and was respectful of others and that meant she could gain support for important outcomes. When I returned to Parliament in 2011, I reconnected with Ann and had the privilege of sitting on the Drug Law Reform Group committee with her. I would meet up with her at the fabulous apartment and we again would share stories about what was happening behind the scenes and art and theatre and we would laugh a lot. Ann Symonds was one of the most inspirational people I have ever met and I am honoured to have had her friendship. She will be sorely missed, but New South Wales is a better place for her activism and passion. I am pleased to have been able to read those words from my colleague Ms Jan Barham onto the record. We send our condolences to Ann's family and friends. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT (The Hon. Trevor Khan): According to sessional orders, proceedings are interrupted to permit the Minister to move the adjournment motion if desired. The House continued to sit. The Hon. JOHN GRAHAM (16:00): I want to add my thoughts to the motion moved by the Hon. Penny Sharpe, and I thank her for moving it. Ann Symonds has been described by others as kind, funny and big hearted, and I agree. For me though, one of the things about Ann was she was always in company. I do not ever think of Ann being by herself. It was always Ann and Bruce and Janette, that is Bruce Childs and Janette McHugh; or Ann and Meredith, that is Meredith Burgmann; or Ann and Sue, or Ann and Sue and Paul, that is Sue and Paul Tracey. That is my personal observation about Ann, but it was also key to her politics and how she worked. She was part of a bigger Labor movement. She was one of those people who brought the social movements of the 1960s and the 1970s into the Labor Party. That is how I think about how she operated but it was also part of the broader political development around that time. Ann was also a traditional Labor person. When she left this place in 1998 she said: I have enjoyed being a representative of the Australian Labor Party. I look forward to its return to its traditional values. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1687

She saw herself as a traditional Labor person. What are those traditional values? She highlighted them, and in particular said: We are facing a terrible new tyranny of ideas. People in the enlightenment fought against the tyranny of the divine right of despots. Our tyranny is about market values dominating society. If we do not return to human values we will be in big trouble. Those were the values that, at the end of her significant career, she saw as most significant. She was powerful and I think the word "inspirational" has been used, which is what she was to me. She with others defined the tradition at the time, which I certainly view myself as working on in this House. Her commitment to drug law reform has already been highlighted, and I will not add to that other than to say that after the election Labor is committed to holding another drug summit following the success of the first one. When people gather for that drug summit we will certainly think of Ann. I recognise her work in prisons. As the son of a probation and parole officer, I am in awe of the work she did for prisoners. I highlight her very powerful work on guns. She was a tireless advocate against guns and her perspective was that communities are largely protected by justice and tolerance. Her relationship with John Tingle has already been highlighted. She was a passionate advocate against guns. I put on record John Tingle's recollection of that relationship because it says a lot. He said: It was inevitable that we should become friends. When I came into this place she was a much loved friend of my late mother. Our friendship was inevitable because I discovered we shared a mutual passion for firearms, albeit from opposite ends of the barrel. That says it all: Ann was a passionate advocate but had respect for her adversaries. I will leave the last words to the late "Johno" Johnson, a son of Murwillumbah where Ann was born. "Johno" said: We loved you while you were here and we will love when you're gone. She has gone from this place. She has now gone from this world. She was much loved. We offer our condolences today. Reverend the Hon. FRED NILE (16:05): I put on the record my admiration for Ann Symonds when I was one of her main opponents in this Parliament. She was someone who took no prisoners. Mr David Shoebridge: She did not believe in prisons. Reverend the Hon. FRED NILE: She was committed to her position and when we were on committees and in the Chamber we often argued. I will not talk about the issues we disagreed about because members can work that out. I admired my opponent for her skill, diligence and arguments, and she kept me on my toes trying to keep up with her. I have fond memories of Ann Symonds. After she left the Parliament we had a number of quiet chats. She never had any personal animosity towards me as her opponent. God bless Ann Symonds. Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE (16:06): When I think of Ann I think of a woman who was funny, intelligent, irreverent but above all persistent. We had many meetings either in this place or in other parts of the State about prison reform, drug law reform, Aboriginal justice and gun control. Ann was often the first at the meeting, waiting for us to arrive. She would then make a quiet, considered, ego-free contribution to the debate— driving it, I always felt, in a way that showed a fundamental commitment to social justice and a deeply held political view that was based upon ensuring that those with less got more. Before I came into the place I remember speaking with two of my colleagues, Sylvia Hale and Lee Rhiannon. Part of their advice to me was that if Ann Symonds is speaking I should take the time to listen. When The Greens heard about the very sad passing of Ann, Lee Rhiannon was one of the first people to contact me. She asked whether I would read some of her thoughts onto the record. Lee worked with Ann in this Chamber. With the indulgence of the House, I will read the words of Lee: Ann Symonds believed in collective action. From her younger days as a teacher standing up for public education, working with the Waverley community to turn the Bondi Pavilion into a community and cultural centre to her diverse work as a Labor MP Ann put people at the centre of her political work. While many of the horrors of the judicial system that Ann campaigned against are still to be remedied, her achievements for women in prison and young people stand to this day. Winning the right for gaoled women to have regular time with their children was ground breaking. Much of Ann's outstanding work has not been recorded. Not because it was insignificant but because Ann's style was unassuming and her commitment was to bring others into the struggle. In 1983 Ann provided great assistance to the Women for Survival movement that staged the 700 strong women's only peace camp at Pine Gap and supported actions around the country. Also in the late 1980s Ann assisted gun control groups to come together and form a national organisation and helped to organise a number of protests that laid a solid groundwork for reform when politicians of all persuasions came to realise the necessity for strong gun control laws after the Port Arthur massacre. I wish to associate myself with the motion introduced by the Hon. Penny Sharpe and with the sentiments in that motion and the sentiments expressed by each of the members who have spoken to that motion. It is testament to Ann's fundamental decency that it really does not matter which politics we are coming from; we acknowledge a woman who was not in it for herself but in it for those who did not have a voice. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1688

The Hon. PETER PRIMROSE (16:09): I thank the Hon. Penny Sharpe for bringing this matter before the Parliament today. On this occasion it is appropriate that we acknowledge someone who, as an honourable member, was able to bring together so many of us in this place around so many important issues. There were so many occasions on which I had the privilege of working with Ann: prior to coming into Parliament, through the Nuclear Free Zones Secretariat; in Parliament, as a member of the social issues committee with Ann; and on a number of policy matters and pieces of legislation in this House. All the sentiments that have been expressed by members indicate Ann's ability to bring people together at the same time and to be laser focused on the important issues with which she was dealing. One thing that I learnt from Ann was the ability to perceive personal troubles and turn them into public issues. I think few people, including me, have the ability to do it so well. It has been mentioned in many different ways that Ann would see matters about which everyone else said, "Isn't that sad? That's dreadful. How terrible that has happened to that person." Ann was able to turn those into issues of concern to governments and to say, "There are things we can do about that." That was exemplified particularly through her work on the Standing Committee on Social Issues—I saw it on many occasions. Matters that had been perceived only as things we should be sad about in relation to individuals suddenly became issues that governments were responsible for doing something about. On 24 September 1997 Ann spoke in debate on one of the committee's reports, entitled "Children of Imprisoned Parents". She said: The committee has as its terms of reference the problems of young people. The members of the committee dealt with young people in a manner devoid of political debate, and were concerned about the policy issues that arose as a result of the hearings. … The report makes 97 recommendations relevant to children of imprisoned parents. The report is about children who have done no wrong. Children whose parents go to prison have committed no offence. As our research revealed, children are too often indirectly punished as a result of their separation from their primary carer. The fact that we recognise the pain and suffering of a child separated under these circumstances is one thing; whether we are prepared to change policies to overcome that unnecessary pain and suffering is another. The Daily Telegraph was unsympathetic to the needs of these children when we released our report on 21 July. It did not accept the need to consider the children in this situation, even though they are totally innocent. I am grateful that that is not the response of the members of the committee, and I believe that it will not be the response of the Government when it considers our recommendations and findings. I ask the House to consider some of the words: "us", "we", "pain", "children", "research", "complex problems", "change policies", "consider", "unnecessary pain", "working together" and the Government doing something about it. Ann was hard-headed. She was assertive; she was assertively caring. She was dealing always with complex and often emotional issues. However, she based her findings and her arguments not solely on emotions but also on research and consultation. That is the colleague I knew. That is the person whom I came to respect so much. That is someone whom I will genuinely miss. That, to me, was my friend Ann Symonds. The Hon. SHAYNE MALLARD (16:15): I wish to associate myself with this condolence motion and with the moving speech given by the Hon. Penny Sharpe and the eloquent contributions from members. As we know, Ann Symonds served in this Chamber for 16 years, from 1982 to 1998. I came to know Ann during that time when I worked as the executive officer to President Willis in 1993 to 1994. Ann reached out across the aisle to staff as well as to members of Parliament whom she identified as people she could be friends with. In those days she was a regular around the President's office and was attracted to those whom I would view as progressive Liberals on the Government side back then—such as Max Willis, Virginia Chadwick and John Ryan, among others—who worked on the Standing Committee on Social Issues then and going forward. As a trouble-causing, progressive Young Liberal State President, I was easily drawn to Ann on the issues that she cared about and we became friends. As chair of the social issues committee and on behalf of committee members, I acknowledge Ann's 10 years as chair of that committee. Her leadership of the committee is probably unprecedented. As the motion of the Hon. Penny Sharpe indicates, over that time there were more than 10 inquiries into important issues such as youth violence, children's advocacy, sexual violence, children of imprisoned parents—about which we have just heard—guardianship, aged care, nursing homes and hepatitis C. Another inquiry dealt with adoption. Max Willis considered that inquiry and the Jigsaw legislation one of the great achievements of his time in Parliament. They were all worthy inquiries—important reports that impacted upon Government policy across the divide. In more recent times, Ann had been regularly in contact with me regarding drug law reform, which is something I care about greatly. I respect her and the work she did in drug law reform. She was lobbying me quite heavily to convince Trent Zimmerman, the Federal member for North Sydney, to sign up to be co-chair of the Australian Parliamentary Group for Drug Law Reform because there was a vacancy. As much as I tried to cajole Trent—I have a lot of influence on him—he said, "I'm a bit busy with marriage equality." Now that that has been achieved, maybe I should take it up again. On behalf of Ann, I might do that. She did say to me, "That will happen and then we'll get him into the job." Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1689

During her time here Ann had considerable impact on drug law reform, including, as the motion indicates, chairing the 1997-1998 Joint Select Committee into Safe Injecting Rooms—now more correctly known as medically supervised injecting centres. In my view, that committee contributed significantly to the outcome of the Drug Summit, on which Ann worked, and then the trial of the now permanent Medically Supervised Injecting Centre in Kings Cross. That centre has saved hundreds of lives and therefore Ann has saved hundreds of lives. I strongly care about the area of drug law reform, which I will carry forward in her memory and the work she has done as much as in my own belief that harm minimisation is the right thing to do. Ann demonstrated some of the values and principles of compassion and humanity that reach across the aisle. That is something very special about this place. Assembly members ask me how I have such relationships with my colleagues in the upper House. They do not exist so strongly in the lower House. As the Hon. Penny Sharpe indicated in her contribution, Ann pioneered the consensus model of committee work in the 1990s—I did not know that, but I can see it now—along with Max Willis, John Ryan and others, who, as I said in my inaugural speech, in my view were giants in this place. That model carries forward for future governments because unanimous, worthy, comprehensive reports that members care about make a real difference. It brings out the best side of politics, which does not often get reported in the media—more is the pity. I have fond memories of Ann from the 1990s, when I worked here as a Young Liberal President, pushing for a republic, euthanasia—we had a debate back then about euthanasia—and progressive drug law reform policies. She gravitated to us and our friendship lasted until today. As I say, I have fond memories. Ann was a wonderful woman. I offer my condolences to her family. The Hon. CATHERINE CUSACK (16:20): This is a very sad occasion. I thank the Hon. Penny Sharpe for moving this motion. I was fortunate enough to know the Hon. Ann Symonds. She was first and foremost a very beautiful person in every way. She was a great friend of the Hon. Virginia Chadwick, as has been alluded to. I remember Virginia saying to me that there are two parties in this place. And the two main parties are not the Labor Party and the Liberal Party; they are the nice people and the nasty people—and Ann Symonds is first and foremost leading the nice people in this Parliament. Virginia and Ann were both utterly loyal and faithful to their political parties but they enjoyed a tremendous friendship. It is described as being across the aisle but I would put it differently: The pair of them were first and foremost outstanding parliamentarians. It was as parliamentarians that they recognised those qualities. They served in this place at a time when they were pioneering for women. They were both women who saw things nobody else saw. They had tremendous wisdom and a rapier wit that was never cruel but always very insightful and clever. They were tremendous representatives of all the values of parliamentarians. I recall that when Virginia passed away a member of the Labor Party was kind enough to describe her as a titan of this Parliament. I would say that description is also befitting of the Hon. Ann Symonds. Much is said of her contribution particularly in relation to reform for prisons and for women. Back in the day she was working with Neville Wran, Helen L'Orange and others to establish the Women's Coordination Unit, the first of its kind in Australia. There were many firsts for women in this State. It was a critical time during which equal rights were very much at the forefront. There were a lot of reluctant people—a lot of reluctant men generally. It was about not so much her beliefs and her passion, but her skill in navigating the difficulties and challenges and not being defeated or embittered by them and just continuing on. Many members on this side of the House have talked about how the Hon. Ann Symonds reached out to us in government. The fact that her party was not in power did not lessen her commitment. She still used all those skills and, in the nicest way possible, reached out on behalf of the causes she championed. In particular, I spent quite some time talking to her about SHINE for Kids and women in prisons. Those organisations speak about how they would not be in their current position but for the Hon. Ann Symonds and the guidance she gave them. I think she chaired the organisation for a while. But of course all those issues only ever came to the fore in the first place because of her landmark report as Chair of the Legislative Council Standing Committee on Social Issues. When Virginia passed away, her funeral was in Newcastle but a large memorial service was held in the Strangers' Dining Room at which Ann spoke. I will recount this story because it really says it all about those women and that time and what this House is capable of—things that I hope are not forgotten. Ann talked about the struggle that she and Virginia faced as women trying to prove themselves for all women and how nothing was a problem so you never complained or showed signs of stress. However, on one occasion she had a very difficult family emergency and asked the Labor Party for a pair that night. I do not think she had a good relationship with the Whip at the time—I cannot remember the details—and she was denied a pair. I think she went to Virginia's office. She was very distressed, in tears, and Virginia said, "You go, Ann, and you go for as long as you like. I'll be your pair." Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1690

That is such a testimony to the character of those women. They never lost touch with the things that are important and recognised the opportunity that they had in this place. Their speeches were pithy. There were no notes; they were great orators. Ann was so composed and so dignified and yet so determined in the causes she championed. She made a real difference in terms of her work, but I feel the manner in which she presented and treated her colleagues in this House has left an indelible mark not just on us as individuals but on our standards in this place. Everybody who had the privilege of meeting her would say the same thing. I give my condolences to her family but I also feel very thankful that this place had the likes of Ann Symonds in it. I again thank the Hon. Penny Sharpe for moving this motion. The Hon. PENNY SHARPE (16:26): In reply: I thank everyone who contributed remarks. There is not really much more to say except: We love you, Ann. The PRESIDENT: The question is that the motion be agreed to. Motion agreed to. Motions SEASONAL FELICITATIONS The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts) (16:27): I move: That this House notes its thanks to the members and staff of the Parliament and wishes seasonal felicitations to all. I do object to that term. It should be "Christmas felicitations". But anyway, there you go. The PRESIDENT: The Minister has got that on the record. The Hon. DON HARWIN: The motion was written for me by the Clerk, even though I requested "Christmas felicitations". But anyway, there you go. The PRESIDENT: In fact, I think the Minister has got that on the record at least twice. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I cannot help but think about four years ago and the last Christmas felicitations of the Fifty-fifth Parliament, which for me was a very special day and a very special time sitting in your chair, Mr President. I said a few things that made an enormous difference to my life and made my life much better, and I have not taken a backwards step since then. But today I first acknowledge, Mr President, your exceptional performance in the chair this year. I extend my very best wishes to you, Mary and your whole family for Christmas and the new year. Thank you for all the excellent work that you have done in the chair since your election almost two years ago. To the Chair of Committees and Deputy President, the Hon. Trevor Khan, it would be a close-run race between you and Jenny but you have been the best Chair of Committees I have seen in my 20 years of experience. It would be a very near-run thing. Both Trevor and Jenny have been exceptional, efficient, effective and respected around the Chamber as well. I also thank the temporary chairs of committees. It is great to be a temporary chair of committees. I never was one, I once tried to get in on the sly, but the Hon. Meredith Burgmann was not about to let that happen. Never mind about that. I am sure that they all do a good job but the Hon. Shayne Mallard and the Hon. Taylor Martin have done particularly well in the chair, on the dais and in Committee stages. It is not an easy thing to do in a member's first term but they have both done it exceptionally well. I congratulate them on that. I acknowledge how extremely privileged the House is to have a faithful and reliable servant in the Clerk of the Parliaments, Mr David Blunt. His exceptional service to this House is well known by all members and I thank him and his capable team in the Department of the Legislative Council for their efforts throughout the year. I particularly thank our much-loved friend Kate Cadell, who interacted closely with all of my staff when I was President. I miss seeing her so often. All of the Legislative Council department staff do a great job, from the Deputy Clerk and right through the ranks. It would take me too long to mention everyone who has had such a major impact over the course of the Fifty-sixth Parliament, so I will not. Even though their names are omitted, I am grateful to all Legislative Council department staff for their efforts. The Department of Parliamentary Services was set up shortly before I became President eight years ago and it had a bit of a wonky start. It has proved itself to be a fine addition to the parliamentary architecture. It is a great credit to the then-President, the Hon. Peter Primrose, who ganged up on the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly and the Department of the Legislative Assembly to get it up. He did Parliament an enormous favour in the process. It is led by Mark Webb, and to him I say, "Job well done." I acknowledge all of his staff, in particular the staff of Hansard, the Parliamentary Library, Building Services, the People and Engagement Branch, Finance, Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1691

Members Services, and the special constables who are contracted by the department. They have served us exceptionally well and they all deserve great credit as well. It has been a privilege and a delight to serve as Leader of the Government in this place over the past two years and I thank the Premier for her confidence in me to lead the Government members in this House. I could not have done it without the incredible support of the Deputy Leader of the Government, the Hon. Niall Blair. I greatly appreciate him and thank him for everything he has done over the past year. I also recognise my ministerial colleague the Hon. Sarah Mitchell, who is not in the Chamber at the moment because she is off doing far more important things: It is her daughter's first birthday today. She is probably on the way home by now. She has done a fantastic job as Minister. I wish her and her family a very merry Christmas. I hope they and the Hon. Niall Blair, Melinda and Lachie enjoy a well-earned break.. I spent eight years as a Whip in this place, so I know how hard the task can be. I commend the Hon. Natasha Maclaren-Jones for her work throughout the year, which has not gone unnoticed by any Government member. The Hon. Ben Franklin also has served as my Parliamentary Secretary for Renewable Energy. He did a fantastic job, particularly on the Far North Coast. I appreciate his advice and the support he has given me in my office as much as I appreciate the friendship he has given me over an extraordinarily long period of time, which predates his membership of the National Party—but I will leave that alone. On several occasions I have pointed out his passion for the arts in regional New South Wales. Although this is the last time we might see each other in this House, I know he will continue to serve the people of New South Wales in the other place for many years to come. At least, I hope that is the case and I wish him all the very best. The Hon. Walt Secord: I have got plans. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I bet you do. I will come to you. Do not worry about that. I thank our parliamentary secretaries for the work they have done sharing the substantial legislative workload this year during Government business, particularly the Hon. Scott Farlow. He has done a great job. The Hon. Niall Blair and I could not do it without him. This year we dealt with 93 Government bills and circulated around 700 amendments. It has been a fairly busy year, and the parliamentary secretaries have taken on quite a bit of the workload by assisting the Ministers with the Government's legislative program. I acknowledge the Hon. Adam Searle, a worthy adversary throughout the past two years. He has done such a good job as Leader of the Opposition that he deserves to keep the job after the election. He is the best Leader of the Opposition—well, let us not gild the lily too much. In any case, there is a good working relationship between us. I appreciate that and I wish him all the best for Christmas, if nothing else. The Hon. Adam Searle: Back at you. The Hon. DON HARWIN: Absolutely. As for the Hon. Walt Secord, as we all remember, a picture says a thousand words. The Hon. Niall Blair's response to this photo was possibly the highlight of the year. It was captured on social media and received thousands of hits. It was an extraordinary and special moment, and I certainly will not repeat the incredibly bad line that was attached to it. I thank the Liberal Party members and the rest of my party, which I joined 35 years ago. To all Liberal members of the Legislative Council: I cannot thank you enough. Without your efforts, dedication and support, we would not be here providing the best Government the State has ever had. I thank the members of The Nationals in this place for their support and assistance in my time as Leader of the Government. We are the strongest Coalition in the country, and our State is all the better for it. Without you, we would not be providing the best Government the State has ever had. I also acknowledge the retiring members of this House and thank them for their service to the people of New South Wales. They are the Hon. Rick Colless, the Hon. David Clarke, the Hon. Scot MacDonald, Ms Dawn Walker, and the Hon. Ernest Wong. Rick will be deeply missed in this place. He has always provided an authentic voice for regional New South Wales. He was also fabulous to work with as Deputy Whip when we were on the other side of the House. We even ended up as next-door neighbours in Vincentia for a few years. That was probably unexpected, but there you go. To you and Geraldine, all the best in your retirement. I know you have many happy years ahead of you. To the Hon. David Clarke: if I referred to the Hon. Adam Searle as a worthy adversary, I do not know exactly where to start with you. It was 19 years and 51 weeks ago exactly today that I confounded expectations and defeated you 98 votes to 82 to claim the honour of coming to this place. However, there were many times over the 12 years that followed when my friends and I came off second best. In spite of all that, we have had a completely civil and professional relationship. I am in awe of all the work you have done in the community. I am particularly grateful for your very strong support and wise counsel while I have served in this role. I wish you and Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1692

Marisa a very happy retirement. I was distressed to hear that you plan to remain an active member of the Liberal Party. Just kidding. The Hon. Adam Searle: You are inspiring him. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I always have. The 2011 election was extraordinary. In the ballot for this place we gained an unprecedented 11 of the 21 seats. The Hon. Niall Blair was number 10 and the Hon. Sarah Mitchell, in a nail-biting finish with Pauline Hanson for the very last seat, was number 11. The Hon. Jenny Gardiner and I were sitting at the counting centre at Riverwood— The Hon. Ben Franklin: I was there too. The Hon. DON HARWIN: You were there too. We had our hands clasped together, hoping and praying that it would all happen. When Sarah won, we were jumping for joy. How lucky were we? We won 11 seats and ended up with Niall and Sarah! But eight years on, the transition was always going to be very difficult and we will be losing the Hon. Scot MacDonald. Hopefully, there will be no more, but we certainly know we are losing Scot. Yesterday, Scot, your valedictory speech moved all of us in this place. You and Aileen have been absolutely superb contributors to our party. I thank you for your service to the Liberal Party, to this Parliament and to the people of New South Wales. I wish you all the best in the next chapter of your life. We heard before about the number of bills and amendments we have dealt with. It is appropriate for me to note that each day we put out a business paper and we have very rarely departed from the bills listed, or indeed the order. That is light years away from the chaotic way the legislative program worked 10 to 15 years ago when the Hon. Rick Colless and I were the Opposition Whips. I acknowledge the role of my deputy chief of staff, Mark Jones, who advises me on managing the business of the House. He probably does more than just advise me! I think I speak for all honourable members in expressing the highest appreciation for the contribution Mark has made to the smooth functioning of the House. Some incredible people have filled your role, including Virginia Knox and Sussana Montrone. There is absolutely no doubt that you are in their league. To my chief of staff Andrew Kirk—the Hon. Walt Secord's favourite—you are the best in the business. I can never say thank you enough. The people of this State have no idea how much you have done to make New South Wales a better place. Also, a huge thank you to my other staff: Christian Dunk, George Ober, Sam Tedeschi—blame Sam for the bad jokes, but we do love him—Ben Lathwell, Chris Lawrence, Emily Gunning, Stuart Grant, Charles Barden, Sandra Brophy, Dan Teudt, Jan Sullivan, Brendan Fletcher and George Weissel. Your work this year has been phenomenal, and I know that you deserve so much credit for all that we have achieved. To the team in energy—Deputy Secretary Liz Develin, Katherine Hole, Amy Kean, Cameron O'Reilly and the rest of the team—thank you. We are regarded in the sector as the jurisdiction that is doing the best job in managing the energy transition to a cleaner energy future while not compromising on reliability and affordability. I really appreciate your work. The team in water utilities is an absolute pleasure to work with: Director Prue Gusmerini, Sydney Water and Hunter Water chief executive officers Kevin Young and Jim Bentley, and WaterNSW chief executive officer David Harris. They have all done a great job shepherding their organisations though the current drought in this State and they are working hard to make sure that as far as possible our water supply is protected. Thank you to Lee Shearer for your efforts leading the resources regulator team and the Acting Deputy Secretary at the Division of Resources and Geoscience, Michael Wright. The team in Arts have been working exceptionally hard to help deliver our ambitious arts agenda: our record $1.5 billion cultural infrastructure spend for development of our plan for future progress, our transformative agenda for the arts in regional New South Wales and Western Sydney, and an increased emphasis on Aboriginal arts. A big thank you to Deputy Secretary Alex O'Mara and executive directors Craig Limkin, Michael Brealey and now Elizabeth Scott, and Alex Bowen at Create NSW, for your exceptional work on delivering on all those priorities. The cultural institutions are also a huge part of the Arts job, and this year I have had the State Archives and Records Authority and the National Art School added to the portfolio—very sensible moves and they have a lot of synergy with the arts. A huge thank you to Louise Herron, Michael Brand, Maud Page, John Vallance, Mark Goggin, Kim McKay, Dolla Merrilees, Adam Lindsay, Stephen Alderton and their teams for exciting and delighting all those who visit, experience and learn at our cultural institutions. Finally, of all of the departmental staff, most importantly, Carolyn McNally, who is just an absolutely first class and outstanding support to me and other Ministers as my departmental secretary. I think she is incredible. In conclusion, to all honourable members: it has been a pleasure to work with all of you—even you, Walt. Importantly, we all understand that while we should not leave anything out on the field while we are in combat, we should not take it off the field. Indeed, that is perhaps what distinguishes us a little bit as a House. To Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1693

all of you, merry Christmas, have a happy New Year and I look forward to returning next year after seeing what unfolds. The Hon. ADAM SEARLE (16:47): On behalf of the Labor Opposition, I associate my side of the House with the motion moved by the Leader of the Government. I begin by giving our special thanks to the Clerks, in particular to the Clerk of the Parliaments, Mr Blunt, whose continued support, guidance and wisdom are not only valued and appreciated by every member of this Chamber but without whom we could not do our jobs. I thank all the workers in the Parliament who help us in our daily duties: the cleaners, the catering staff, the special constables, attendants, the information and technology staff, without whom our iPads and phones would not operate, the staff of the library, and in particular for those who are not in government, its research function, as well as the staff of members of the Legislative Council. I recognise the work of Hansard, who make amazing efforts to translate what goes on in this place into readable text, to record not only accurately but mostly sensibly the deliberations of this Chamber. For the record, any imperfections in the record are our fault, not theirs. I thank Maurice, whose 34 years of service in this place were recognised this morning, and his team of Chamber attendants who make the place run smoothly and assist us daily. To all honourable members, I wish you well and thank you for your contributions during the year. Mr President, on behalf of this side of the Chamber, I thank you. You continue to hold the respect of all Labor members for your firm but fair stewardship of deliberations in this Chamber. Our thanks also go to your deputy, the Hon. Trevor Khan, for his work as the Deputy President and for his work as Chair of Committees when he has to maintain good order and good humour during the handful of occasions on which we have sat late into the night. Trevor, you are not really as cranky as you try to make us think you are. I thank my deputy, the Hon. Walt Secord, and all of my Labor colleagues for their support, their advice and their assistance to me in my role as the Leader of the Opposition over the term of this Parliament. I could not have done the role without their support. I recognise the hard work of all of my team and indicate my pride in having led them in this Parliament. It is a great privilege and honour to lead the Labor Party in any Chamber. I count myself blessed for having been given the opportunity. I recognise the recent election of my friend and colleague Penny Sharpe to the deputy leadership of the Opposition, not in this place but in every place. I have known Penny since our Young Labor days in the 1990s and more recently during our time in Parliament. The shadow Cabinet portfolios we have had custodianship of have caused us to work closely on a range of issues, including climate change. Penny is a tough and progressive champion for change, for social justice and for protecting the natural world and all who depend upon it. I welcome her election and look forward to her serving as a Deputy Premier in a Daley Labor Government next year. I acknowledge the role of Opposition Whips, the Hon. Shaoquett Moselmane and the Hon. Greg Donnelly. Herding cats is very difficult but they do it well, as they amply demonstrated during a division last week. I thank my other shadow ministerial colleagues Peter Primrose, crafty old fox that he is, Mick Veitch and Lynda Voltz. I recognise the Hon. Courtney Houssos, the Hon. Daniel Mookhey and the Hon. John Graham for their committee work and for working with the shadow Cabinet. I also thank the Hon. Ernest Wong for his contribution during his time in Parliament. I thank my friend and staff member Rob Allen, who keeps me on the straight and narrow, which is an almost impossible task. Rob Allen, Luke Maxfield, who works for my deputy Walt Secord, and Michael Baker, who works with us both, do a lot of the research and other logistical work that underpins our efforts in this Chamber. Without them, our team would be in a shabby state. I acknowledge the hard work of my part-time staff members Jessica Sparks and Felicity Wade, who ably support me in my duties. My thanks also go to Trish Marinozzi, who works for the Whip's office, and all those who work for Labor members in this Chamber. There are too many of them to name individually but, as I have remarked previously, I was once a Labor staffer in this place in opposition as well as in government. I know that without the work they do to support us we could not function properly. I will reflect briefly on the difficulties caused by the under-resourcing of oppositions by all governments. We are lucky on our side of the Chamber because our staff are committed to a cause beyond their own personal ambitions. We are lucky to have such hardworking and dedicated staff whose creativity and efforts to go the extra mile assist us to do much better than the resources allocated to us would usually permit. Hopefully, members opposite will soon discover the joys of being on this side of the Chamber. I thank the Leader of the Government for his professionalism and good humour, even during those difficult late-night sittings. I thank the Deputy Leader of the Government, the Hon. Niall Blair, and his colleague Minister Sarah Mitchell for their friendship and their dedication to the jobs they have been given in the Parliament and the Executive Government. In previous years I have noted the meteoric rise of the Hon. Niall Blair from chair of his party to a junior Minister to leader of his party in this Chamber. I place on record that in the next few months Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1694

members on my side of the Chamber will do everything we can to help him become leader of his party more generally. I thank crossbench members from The Greens, the Christian Democratic Party, the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party and the for their courtesy and consideration of the issues that we have sought to advance during this year and during this Parliament not only in our legislative deliberations but also in our committee work, which is a vital function of this Chamber that is not generally recognised outside of it. This Chamber is less partisan in nature than is the other place. That lends itself to a closer association between members and an ability to work across party lines on issues that lead to findings and recommendations in our many reports, not all of which but most of which are unanimous. That is an important function that is highly underrated in our system of parliamentary democracy in New South Wales. As I approach the conclusion of my remarks, I reflect that this is not only the last sitting of this year but of the whole Parliament. It is hard to believe that four years has gone by. The Leader of the Government acknowledged the contributions made by retiring members. With the looming election, it is not entirely clear exactly who will be returning to this place, which side of the Chamber the major political representatives will be sitting or where in the Chamber they will be sitting, if they return. That uncertainty is one of the hallmarks of our calling. Despite the cut and thrust of political debate on legislation or other issues, it is important to take the time to reflect that we are all human beings. That can sometimes be lost sight of. As we are giving seasonal good wishes, it is time to acknowledge that we are all people and we are all doing our imperfect best to strive for the common good through our roles in this place. I hope that all honourable members will join me in thanking any workers who will be working on Christmas Day and Boxing Day. Our side will be looking to restore the traditional approach to Boxing Day trading, should we be elected to office. I wish members and workers in this building all the best for Christmas and the new year. As members enter into what may be a long, hot and indeed wet summer, I hope that everybody has a safe festive season and a happy and productive new year. I hope that those who are returning next year will do so energised and in good spirits. The Hon. NIALL BLAIR (Minister for Primary Industries, Minister for Regional Water, and Minister for Trade and Industry) (16:56): As leader of The Nationals in this place I support the motion moved by the Leader of the Government, the Hon. Don Harwin. I thank the Hon. Don Harwin for his support, his camaraderie and his communication. It is easy to work together with someone when they talk to you about what is happening. I thank him and all of his team for making sure that we are the strongest Coalition in the country, particularly as we operate in this House during some challenging times. Mr President, we have heard many times about how you operate in the chair. You are fair and you are firm. We all respect you and congratulate you on another fantastic year. We also congratulate you on the Tuesday night carvery. It has been a fantastic addition that I think has added to the camaraderie of all members of both Houses. I thank the Deputy President and Chair of Committees, the Hon. Trevor Khan. We have heard about the mammoth efforts he has put in during some of those long debates in the Committee stage. We thank him for his wonderful efforts and also his patience with members from all sides of the Chamber. I thank the Government Whip, the Hon. Natasha Maclaren-Jones, who is supported by the Deputy Government Whip, the Hon. Wes Fang, for making sure that we all turn up. I probably do not do my fair share of Chamber duty; I have always got to duck out and make a phone call. I thank them for putting up with me for that. To the Leader of Government business, the Hon. Scott Farlow, I say well done and congratulations. I look forward to seeing him go on to bigger and better things in the future. We know that the House operates smoothly because of the people who work behind us, particularly Mark Jones from Minister Harwin's office. We have heard his work being recognised but he is also supported by staff in my office such as Amy Monahan. I apologise to Mark for some of the sprays I gave you throughout the year. The issues were not his fault, but he was the first person I could speak to about them. To those opposite, I start with the Leader of the Opposition, the Hon. Adam Searle. Thank you for the way you are able to address and communicate on difficult issues. At times we are under a lot of stress. You are able to understand an argument but hold firm when necessary. I thank you for your leadership. To the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, the Hon. Walt Secord, we know how you play the game. We know that a lot of it is a front. We know that you know exactly what you are doing; I respect that. We know that certain things need to be done in particular ways in this House. He is always pushing the envelope, but we respect that. To the Hon. Penny Sharpe, congratulations. I know what it is like to be the deputy leader of a party sitting in this House. It is a welcome step and adds more value to the way in which representatives of this House should be viewed. At times we do not receive the same level of respect from our lower House colleagues, but Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1695

I congratulate you on your elevation to the position of Deputy Leader of the Labor Party. I thank the Opposition Whip, the Hon. Shaoquett Moselmane, and Deputy Opposition Whip, the Hon. Greg Donnelly. They had a great record until earlier in the week. That has been resolved with the personal explanation that we heard earlier today. I reflect on The Nationals team that I lead. I start with the Hon. Sarah Mitchell. It has been 12 months since we did felicitations and Sarah was being induced. I think I joked at the time that she would prefer to go through labour than sit through question time. She is heading home to celebrate Matilda's first birthday. She is a fine example of someone who is able to balance a young family with her ministerial responsibilities, especially when travelling from Gunnedah, which is not five minutes away from an airport or a train station. Sarah regularly gets up at 4.30 in the morning to travel to Tamworth to catch an early flight and she returns home whenever she can. She is supported by her husband, Ant, who does a lion's share of domestic duties to ensure that she gets the balance right. She is also well supported by staffers who have made sure that her ministerial journey has been a successful one, particularly Siobhan, Sally-Anne, Esther, Nick, Sally, Tom, Douglas, Sam and James, and her department liaison officers. We know what the Hon. Trevor Khan does in this House as Chair of Committees and Deputy President, but he has a special role in The Nationals. He is never afraid to speak out and he is never afraid to tell us what the counterview is, which is usually his view. But that is what every party needs. He brings a level of intelligence to the debate and a perspective that challenges not only us but also our membership. We are better for having his presence in our party and for his contribution to our team. To the Hon. Ben Franklin: I have said a couple of times this week that I hope I do not see him in this place next year. He is certainly shining a hell of a light on some of the issues in his local area and he has stepped up to the call to advance the position of our party and the Government to ensure that we return to this side of the House next year. I am sure he will get there, but if he does not, it will not be because of a lack of work or effort or for not doing the things that a good member should do. I wish him all the best in that endeavour. Unfortunately the Hon. cannot be here this afternoon; she is attending her aunt's funeral. Once again, she is another member of my party who travels enormous distances. She covers southern New South Wales as Parliamentary Secretary and she goes through countless windscreens. Anyone who knows Bronnie knows she is always dropping the car off to get another windscreen fixed. She is also working very hard to ensure that we hold our electorates but also to win one or two back across New South Wales. I acknowledge the Hon. Wes Fang. We all bring something to the party and Wes has brought something different again. We hope we see him back in this Chamber next year. We are optimistic and hope that he comes back. He has fought hard for his position and he is doing what he needs to do to ensure that we are all attracting the votes we need. The last person I wish acknowledge in The Nationals is the Hon. Rick Colless. He is a Parliamentary Secretary and a good friend. It will not be the same place without Rick. I do not just say that as the Deputy Leader of The Nationals. Everywhere Rick goes, whether to a community or an organisation, he leaves a lasting memory and everyone says the same thing: He is trusted, he is hardworking, and he does not have a bad word to say about anyone—except The Greens! He will be missed. He has been a giant in our party. We will have to get someone up to speed on carbon and soils and a whole range of other things. He will leave a wonderful legacy in this place. We thank him for that and wish him all the best in his retirement. Others have mentioned the Legislative Council team, which is led by the Clerks, David Blunt and Steven Reynolds, and Kate Cadell. I thank them for their wonderful support and advice. We have heard the acknowledgement of the Chamber support staff. They do a wonderful job, led by Maurice. I share a similar haircut to Maurice. I heard earlier this week that he used to have a mullet. We have all been there, but he is a muso and I think he could get away with it better than most. Maurice, thank you for all you have done and good luck in your retirement. You leave a wonderful legacy in the rest of the attendants who are still serving us, particularly Richard, Mike, John and Mark. The way they operate and conduct themselves and the way they support each other is because of your leadership. Good luck and thank you. I acknowledge the rest of the procedural office team. Their workload will start to ease now that the Hon. David Clarke is leaving. To Beverly Duffy and the committee team, thank you. Whether it is by way of valedictory speeches or acknowledgments in committee reports, every member respects and thanks the committee staff for their work on some of the best things that happen in this place. To Susan, Usher of the Black Rod, and her staff, you have had a good association with the Hon. Walt Secord this year and have got to know each other quite well. Thank you once again. To the rest of the staff who serve us in Parliament—from the cleaners to those who look after parliamentary services—we thank them. Without them, we would not be able to do what we do. This is the first time I have spoken in seasonal felicitations at the end of a parliamentary session leading into an election. It will allow me to give members a quick snapshot of the four years that I have had the pleasure of being a Minister in this House. It highlights the role that this House plays as a House of review. As a Minister, Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1696

I have been asked 1,115 questions; I have led on 37 bills, five disallowance motions and one censure motion; and I have made one personal explanation. That clearly shows the type of scrutiny the Executive Government is put under by this House of review. I would not have been able to do that work without the team that sits behind me. I acknowledge my Chief of Staff, Sean O'Connell. The Hon. Don Harwin said he had the best in the business, but we could debate that for many hours. Sean has a lot of experience. He is my number one adviser and my number one protector, and I thank him for all he has done. To lead in a number of areas of policy matters I need a team of policy experts who can provide the right advice. I thank my Director of Policy, Hollie Baillieu, and my other policy experts—Sam, Charlie, Miranda and Asher—for their hard work, knowledge and stakeholder relationships. I want to thank my Communications Director, Evie Madden, and also Amy Minahan, both of whom generally travel with me. I am not a good flyer. I am quite particular about how I travel and I try to fit in as much as I can when I am on the road. I also try to get some exercise. I know that Evie and Amy definitely have my back. They have made my job a lot easier and I thank them for all they do, particularly Evie in her role in communications. I am also not great with the media and she has had to deal with many of my tantrums. I thank her for that as well. I also acknowledge Stuart Bocking, the co-driver. I am still not sure what Stuart does in my office, but I am sure it is very good—that is a joke! I hope he is laughing. He has a pretty special role in my office. I also thank Beth and all of the departmental liaison officers who have worked in my office over the years. I thank Charis Ombico, who leads the gatekeeping and makes sure that I know what meeting I am going to and that I do what I have to do. I also briefly thank all of the agencies that sit in behind my work, led by the Secretary of Industry, Simon Draper. I also thank the heads of my agencies that sit underneath there: Scott Hanson, Director General of the Department of Primary Industries, and then Deputy Secretaries Liz Livingstone, Zoe de Saram, Shaun Smith and Tim Holden. I also thank David Harris, who heads up WaterNSW, and David Witherdin, who looks after Local Land Services. I want to give one last message to all members of this House as we head into the Christmas break. We know that some of us may not be here after the election and we do not know who that might be. I am sure that when we look across this Chamber we are all here to do the same thing and are working for the same outcome— that is, to better the lives of the people of New South Wales and to make this State a better place. We just differ on how we think that should happen and we have different priorities on how that should happen. I acknowledge all the parties in this Chamber—the Australian Labor Party, The Greens, the Christian Democratic Party, the Animal Justice Party, the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party, as well as The Nationals and the Liberal Party— that are all working towards the same outcome. As the Leader of the Opposition said, we are also all humans, and we clearly reflect society. Every day in society we see new additions to families, loss in families, sickness, people who are struggling with personal demons and battles, and challenges in a whole range of our lives, all of which has happened in this Chamber. The fact that 42 members spend a lot of time together in corridors, travelling on buses or planes, or sitting in committees makes us no different. We all know what each other may or may not have been through throughout the years and this is the time to reach across on all sides and say, "Enjoy the break. Look after your family." To members who will not be back, I thank them for their service. They have all left a piece of history and a legacy in their own way. We wish you all the best. To members who are coming back, I say: I will be waiting for you next year. The Hon. WALT SECORD (17:14): As Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Legislative Council, it is my great pleasure to make a contribution to this year's seasonal felicitations. Apparently, this will be the last day of the Parliament before we begin preparations for the 2019 State election, so I suggest that we appreciate the calm before the storm. I officially extend best wishes to those who have worked so hard on all sides of the Parliament, as well as the parliamentary staff and our personal staff. We know that the Legislative Council electorate staff, especially Opposition ones, work long hours. We also know that they provide members with terrific support. The honourable and wily Peter Primrose often tells the amusing story of when he is in the country and local government officials ask if he can get his "department" to look into a particular matter. He smiles and hands the documents to his sole staff member, Amanda McCormack. She is his entire department. I recognise the hard work and advice of the Clerk, David Blunt, the Deputy Clerk, Steven Reynolds and all the other parliamentary Clerks and other staff. I especially thank Kate Cadell in Mr Blunt's office, who conducts herself with a high level of efficiency and professionalism, which makes dealing with her a pleasure. I also thank the staff of the Procedure Office and committee teams. It is often said that committees are the backbone of this Parliament. I can attest that the committee teams are the most patient people I have ever encountered in this building, especially those who worked on the Portfolio Committee No. 4—Legal Affairs inquiry into museums and galleries in New South Wales, which has been dubbed the "Powerhouse Museum inquiry". Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1697

Speaking briefly about that inquiry, I wish to remark on the hard work of its chair, the Hon. Robert Borsak, and the deputy chair, Mr David Shoebridge. Admittedly it is one of the few occasions when I have undertaken committee work alongside the Hon. Robert Borsak and Mr David Shoebridge. I now have a better appreciation of their skills. I commend the Hansard staff, the Chamber staff, the special constables, the cleaners and our long-suffering but diligent attendants, who are here well before we start and long after we finish. I note the impending retirement of Chamber attendant Mr Maurice Rebecchi after a record 34 years of service here. As for Labor staffers, I single out the Legislative Council leadership staff team, Luke Maxfield, Michael Baker and Rob Allen, for their support over the past 12 months, especially on legislation, motions and preparation for question time. Luke Maxfield brings Zen-like qualities to the job, and Michael Baker has an earnest approach. This is complemented by Rob Allen, who brings the historical knowledge and the aggressive edge and political rat cunning to our parliamentary work. Together, they are a formidable trio. I wish to take a moment to acknowledge the passing of Mr Rob Allen's mother on 6 November. She surpassed 101 years of age and kept the faith until her last breath in Springwood. Unfortunately for The Nationals, longevity is in the Allen genes. Luke Maxfield, Michael Baker and Rob Allen are a true brains trust. They provide advice and assistance to us without fear or favour. We agree and disagree, but they are always available and valued. They make contributions into our lives on all—whether it is reminding the Hon. Adam Searle to get a haircut, or asking about the welfare of our long-suffering partners and making sure we are not neglecting them. I salute the canteen staff, who are forced to work on late-night sittings and who watch the proceedings as keenly as does the press gallery. My thanks go to the President, the Hon. John Ajaka, and the Deputy President, the Hon. Trevor Khan. I know that I make their jobs damn hard, and I apologise, but there is a German phrase Geschäft ist Geschäft—business is business. As the referees in this Chamber, you both recognise the importance of your role in this State's House of review. I also acknowledge the contribution of the Opposition leader, Adam Searle, the Government Whips and the Opposition whips. As I said in last year's seasonal felicitations, all members in this Chamber are well aware that I engage in political activity in a take-no-prisoners manner and I will continue to do so. Admittedly, on a personal level 2018 was much better than 2017. As I shared with the Chamber last year, 2017 was gut-wrenching. It was the year of the loss of my father, my niece, my father-in-law and then, several days after Parliament rose, my best friend from university in Canada. I believe that there will be five, six or seven departures from the Chamber this year but those departures will not be as dramatic or as permanent. Some of our colleagues will not return due to retirement, forced retirement or not getting elected. I am sad about that. But since 1991 I have never encountered a person who has left politics and who, upon reflection, has not regretted leaving politics. It can be the best possible job that you will ever have and sometimes it can be one of the worst jobs that you will ever have. That said, I hope to return to Parliament on the other side of the Chamber: on the Government Treasury benches as part of a Daley-Sharpe government. Admittedly, it has been a turbulent year; we replaced a Labor leader with a new one. We are rallying behind and his deputy, Penny Sharpe, with renewed optimism. Michael and Penny already have taken to the challenge with real gusto. Immediately after their elevation, I described Penny Sharpe in the media as a "trailblazer". Shortly afterwards, she laughed and suggested another form of words. Penny said to me: You mean lesbian when you say 'trailblazer'—and while I am the first one to admit it publicly, there have been other lesbians on the floor of the Parliament; they were just not out. Penny Sharpe was very observant. Members would be aware that a number of years ago, I was the only Australian Labor Party right-wing member of Parliament who marched in the Mardi Gras with Bill Shorten. But I have to admit that I still find myself continually responding and shifting and changing my views and understanding in the world. We predicted that 2018 would be much more intense and hard fought at a political level as we got closer to the 2019 election; that is true. But above all I remind myself every day that I am fortunate to be in a position to serve the community of New South Wales. I remind myself every day that I was born in very humble origins from a bicultural relationship: the first member of my family to go to high school, to go to university, to do postgraduate work. I stand here at the other end of the world, hoping to become part of the Executive as a member in a Labor Government. It is all the more reason to work hard and diligently to try to improve the world and to serve the community as best we can. It is also a time to remind us to reach out to our friends and to keep in contact with our family, despite our pressing workloads and the demands of public life. So I say to our Christian colleagues: Merry Christmas. I say to my Jewish friends and my extended Jewish family members and in-laws: Happy Chanukah. I say to those of other faiths and those who do not consider themselves religious: Have a safe and happy holiday. Enjoy your time and enjoy the friendships we have because they will not last forever. I hope everyone has a restful December-January and returns rejuvenated for the intense four months ahead. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1698

On a final personal note: for those who follow my support for the Cat Protection Society of NSW and my rehabilitated arthritic street cat, Brutus, a brief update. On 12 October, I had the honour of hosting a major event here at the State Parliament marking the sixtieth anniversary of the Cat Protection Society and I gave a major speech. It was an honour and probably one of the most pleasurable speaking engagements I have ever had. They clapped at points of the speech where I did not expect them to clap, they laughed at other points where I did not expect them to laugh, and they groaned at other points. I have to admit I was startled to get a cheer when I said: This planet was not created just for our benefit. We are here to share this world. I believe that all creatures have rights. I believe that animals enrich our lives and our engagement with them helps us to become better human beings. They also increase our longevity and general well-being. They cheered—extraordinary. I guess I was surprised because I thought that was a widely held view, but apparently it is not. As for my cat, Brutus, he has completely settled into life with my partner, Julia, and her toy poodle, Honey. It seems that Brutus and I can be domesticated and my partner, Julia, has made 2018 one of the happiest years of my life on a personal level. One final cautionary note to members here: I will give the last adjournment debate speech in this Parliament. I thank members for their consideration. Reverend the Hon. FRED NILE (17:24): I am grateful for the opportunity to say a few words in the House on this important occasion. I wish all members and staff a very merry Christmas and a happy new year on behalf of myself and my colleague, the Hon. Paul Green. I thank our staff for their support during this year: Paul Green's staff, Marie Mirza, Danielle Dickman, Hanna Green and Emily van Esch; my staff, Edwin Dyga and Kat Hawken; and the volunteers who help us as well. In a moment I will read the Christmas story, as I usually do, from the Bible that was presented to me when I was first elected 37 years ago in 1981. I still remember then Premier Bob Carr's words—he was quite surprised that his reforms of the upper House resulted in me being elected. That was not part of the plan. He made a speech in the other place saying, "Anyhow, Fred Nile won't last." I am still here 37 years later and he has moved on. He had quite a lot of contact with me over the years. I remember one day my car phone rang; I said, "Hello?" and he said, "This is Bob Carr here." He was on his car phone heading to the airport; he obviously was very busy. He said, "I just heard Carlton on 2GB making fun of you. That upset me so I'm just ringing you up to say don't let him get to you; don't worry about him." I was very pleased to think that in his busy life, heading to the airport, he took those few minutes to ring me and express his concern for me. In spite of the comment about not lasting, I developed a good relationship with the Hon. Bob Carr, who was the Premier of New South Wales, as members know. The Bible that I have is the one that was presented to me when I was first elected, as was the custom in those days. I am not sure whether the custom has faded away now. All members used to be presented with a Bible when they were first elected to the upper House and it would have in it the signatures of the people who were in charge at that stage. In 1981 they had not elected a President and so my Bible was signed by the three commissioners who had been appointed at that time: "Johno" Johnson, Paul Landa and Clive Healey. It also includes the oath of allegiance on the cover so it is a very precious book, as well as being the Bible—the holy word of God—but also the one that was presented to me on that occasion 37 years ago. I would like to read a passage to remind us why we are adjourning: to celebrate Christmas. And what is the important thing about Christmas? That is the birth of Jesus Christ. The passage I will read is headed "The Birth of Christ" in the Gospel of Matthew, starting at verse 18: Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying— and this is quoting from Isaiah— BEHOLD, A VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND SHALL BRING FORTH A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, God with us. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1699

That is the summary of why we celebrate Christmas, the birth of Jesus Christ our Saviour. I also thank everyone for their support during the year. I have already mentioned my colleague the Hon. Paul Green. I thank the President, the Hon. John Ajaka, for his assistance this year. He has been very helpful and I have been glad to be his Assistant President. I also thank the Hon. Don Harwin, who was President at one stage and is now Leader of the Government, and the Hon. Scott Farlow. I also thank the Hon. Trevor Khan for his leadership as Chair of Committees. He performs his role very well with good humour. I also thank the Labor leaders, who have already made their contributions—the Hon. Adam Searle and the Hon. Walt Secord—for their help. I also thank the Clerk, David Blunt, and Steven Reynolds. I thank the staff of Hansard, catering staff, security, our police on duty and all the attendants—Mark and others—for their help during the year. I pray that God will bless each one of you and that you will have a merry Christmas and a happy new year. God bless you. Mr JUSTIN FIELD (17:31): I make a short contribution on behalf of The Greens to these seasonal felicitations—Christmas felicitations. A lot has been said about the contribution of all members. I am a relatively new member but in hearing the contributions of others I recognise just how much work we all do in this place. Sometimes it gets lost in the differences, but when it is all added up—the contributions made in debates in this place, in the work of committees and in the community—it amounts to a lot. So much is done on behalf of our communities by people in this place and the people who support us in our teams, offices and parties. I acknowledge the work everyone is doing for the people of New South Wales. Mr President, you have kept us on track. I have certainly found you to be fair. I think I have been called to order once; I will try harder next time, I promise. I thank David Blunt and the staff of the Legislative Council for all their support and advice. I thank the attendants for their quick action last night. My colleagues and I have had a discussion about it; we are going to invite them to the next delegates council meeting of The Greens to give us some assistance. I thank all the workers at Parliament who make our lives easier—keep us fed, and keep us in paper. I offer special thanks to the security staff. They have supported me through some experiences this year, and I appreciated that advice and support. A few people, because of their advocacy, experienced some of that behaviour, whichsays something about politics at the moment. Next year will be a double-whammy election year. I hope everyone gets to have a break before the craziness starts. The break gives us an opportunity for a bit of reflection—to reflect on what we do here, to reflect on what politics is and what it could be, and to reflect on our contribution to it. This time of year also gives us an opportunity to give thanks for our good fortune and to recognise that many others are less fortunate. There are 40,000 people who are homeless in this State. Many children do not have access to adequate food. The most basic things—shelter, food and clothing—are not available to so many. That is not a criticism at all, but we have a unique opportunity to do something about that in this place. So let us reflect during some time off and come back next year—with whatever the make-up of this Parliament is—and see what we can do together with humanity to fix that for the people of this State. I hope everyone gets some time to get out into the wild, go for a walk in our national parks, spend some time swimming and snorkelling in our oceans, go fishing, walk the beach, smell the flowers and listen to the birds—please do that. My experience is that people who spend time in nature are more inspired to protect it. Nature needs advocates on all sides of politics and throughout our community more than ever before. To those who do not return to this place next year, I wish good luck in their retirement. To those who do not make it back, I send luck and best wishes for whatever they take on in the future. To my colleagues: I know we have had a difficult couple of weeks but thank you for your support. I look forward to our future together over the next few months, the next term and far into the future. We have been so well supported by our team of staff, who have been there working hard. I know that everyone has hardworking and passionate staff, who are committed not only to supporting us in our offices but also to the project that we all share for the benefit of the environment or the people of this State. I acknowledge the work that our staff have been doing over the past 12 months, in particular. On behalf of The Greens, I wish everyone a very merry Christmas and a happy new year. I wish everyone a happy and healthy holiday period. See you next year. The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK (17:36): I was not going to say anything today because obviously you people are quite sick of me by now, but— The Hon. Ben Franklin: No. The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK: Thank you—I acknowledge that. The Hon. Lynda Voltz: He's after preferences. The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK: I promised I would not run in Ballina, but then again I do not know what my party is going to do. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1700

The PRESIDENT: The Hon. Robert Borsak has the call. The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK: Thank you, Mr President. I will not speak about your moustache right now. The Hon. Don Harwin: It's unspeakable. The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK: You are quite right: It is unspeakable. To the Clerk and all his staff, and all the staff of the Parliament, I say thank you very much for a fantastic year and, now that we are coming to the end of a term, a fantastic four years. Thank you for your guidance, for grabbing me by the collar on many occasions and saying, "Excuse me, you should get up there right now. You've got things to say. You've got things to do. If you are going to get this right, get up and do it now." Thank you very much indeed. If it was not for your professionalism, knowledge and understanding, I would make a bigger fool of myself than I am doing now. My "colleague in crime", Robert Brown, has been very sick lately and has been passing it around. I think the Hon. Trevor Khan and he will have to stop being so close. There are some others who are probably getting too close to Brown—I do not know whether the Hon. Rick Colless is one of them. The Hon. Robert Brown said some good words about Rick, and that is understandable. I say to the Hon. Robert Brown: Thank you very much for your support, mate. It is a tight team in the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party. We work very hard. Robert Despotoski, our chief Minister in crime in this place and the chief rumour-monger, does an excellent job keeping us informed—or ill informed—about what is going on around the place. Without Senada Bjelic, our personal assistant, we would be absolutely buggered. Anyone who has anything to do with my very focused firearms adviser, Steve Larsson, will wish they had never met him. The Hon. Penny Sharpe: He is right into the container deposit scheme. The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK: That one too. Thank you. I thank our most recent addition, Holli Thomas, who is coming up to speed very quickly and complaining that she is starting to get bored now. We will have to give her a bit more to do. I thank all of them for their support and hard work during the past four years and, in Holli's case, the past six or eight months. I have worked closely with many people in this place, particularly as Chair of Standing Committee No. 4 and my long-running inquiry into the Powerhouse Museum. That has been an interesting inquiry—and it is not over yet, Mr Harwin. The Hon. Don Harwin: I would be shocked if it was. The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK: You would be shocked if it was? That is right. The Government needs to give the Clerk a larger budget in the next term to ensure that these things run properly and run well. We found out some interesting things during that inquiry, which has been extremely useful. We issued the interim report before Christmas last year and the Government ignored it. Fancy that! Anyway, I thank the Hon. Adam Searle for his consultations and wit—and I will say no more about it. Thank you very much. It has been excellent; it really has. The Hon. Walt Secord: Counsel. The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK: Counsel is the right word. The Hon. Adam Searle gives good counsel. I thank the Hon. Walt Secord for his wit. If I could get as many calls to order as he does, I would be doing very well indeed. I have only ever been called to order once in the past eight years, and I really had to cajole the President to get it. I thank the President for that. I thank everybody in the Opposition for their counsel from time to time. It has been useful and helpful. David Shoebridge is not in the Chamber, which is a shame. David does not believe in 95 per cent of what we believe in, and I can accept that. But there is about 5 per cent that an honourable man like he and I can agree on. When David says yes, he sticks to his word; and when he says no, he also sticks to it. That is important. It is important to understand this House has a job to do that is different from that of the other place. If ever there is a person who stands up for what he believes in and stands by what he says, it is David. I acknowledge him and thank him very much for the heartfelt support he has given me in Portfolio Committee No. 4 and in all the inquiries we have worked on together. I also thank our good friends in the Christian Democratic Party, the Hon. Paul Green and Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile. Thank you for your friendship and hard work, certainly in the past four years. I thank Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile for being a stalwart advocate for his beliefs. I appreciate it. The Hon. Paul Green is up for re- election, and I hope he is here with us for the next four-year term. I believe he will be. I thank the Hon. Don Harwin for his leadership. It was a bit of a rough start after he came out of the chair, but he has really blossomed into his role. Good on you for the way you have grabbed it and run with it. Niall, thank you, mate. It is hard for The Nationals, especially when they have young upstarts like us having a go at them. We will continue to do that and not stop. I am sure that The Nationals will continue to play hardball—as they should. Equally, they will be Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1701

met by us on the same basis. Thank you very much. You are all true warriors and we appreciate the hard work and effort you all put in. To my friend Ben Franklin, what can I say? Ben and the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party are awkward friends, but not quite as awkward as we are with The Greens. I have had a running joke with Ben about us not running in the seat of Ballina because we could probably strip a few per cent from him if we did. I honestly wish him well. I hope he wins his seat and joins our friend Phil Donato and many other Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party members in the other place. Maybe he will be in government and maybe not—who knows? Good luck with it, mate. To the rest of the Government members, it has been my pleasure to see how you have all matured and worked better as a team, especially in the past four years. It has really started to come together for the Government. Good on you all. To the Whip, thank you very much for whipping me around a bit. The Hon. Natasha Maclaren-Jones: A pleasure. The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK: Yes. It has been very interesting. I am not the quickest when it comes to procedure, but I do get it in the end. That is why the Clerks are so important for helping me out. To my old mate, the President, it is no use wiping your nose—the moustache will still be there no matter how hard you wipe. It will be there until you shave it off at the end of this month. The PRESIDENT: I was wiping away tears. The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK: Thank you very much for your friendship and your fair custodianship of this House. You have done a fantastic job. Equally, the Hon. Trevor Khan does an excellent job. Thank you very much for your good humour, especially in Committee when you know you have not got the numbers. You smile and make an excellent professional contribution. I cannot overstate my appreciation for that. Thank you very much. I have certainly enjoyed the past four years and all the committee work I have been doing. I think at one stage I was running five different committee hearings. It has been fantastic. I thank the Government for ignoring the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party over the past four years. It has been good for the development of our personal party processes and the way we have campaigned. It has given the party time to think about why it is in Parliament, and in this House. We have the opportunity to do something that will improve the functioning of this House in the next Parliament, if we are lucky. It has also given us the opportunity to think about why we are in either House. Through planning and campaigning, in November 2016 we managed to get our first ever member elected to the other place in the electorate of Orange. We all know how that happened and why it happened. I did not think we could win that seat, but we did. It sent a message to our party that we should be trying harder, working harder and doing more. That is what this four years has given us: a chance to think about why we are here since we were first elected in 1995, what we are doing and who we can represent. It has been important for us to see that we can do things in the other place. I was just as surprised as most members here and in the other place to discover that we could win a seat. After seven or eight recounts, we won by 56 seats—sorry, 56 votes; I would love to have 56 seats. That election has caused us to focus on what our role is, and our party members in this place and the other place will continue that process down the track. I thank ex-Premier O'Farrell for reneging on all the deals we made with him in the first term. That also got us thinking about why we are here and what we can and cannot do. I thank Premier Baird for trying to ban the greyhound racing industry. I also thank for being the member for Orange and for winning our first seat in the Legislative Assembly. I thank Premier Gladys Berejiklian for the recreational fishing lockouts. I cannot think of a better opportunity for our little party to garner support among people we see as basic to the support requirements of our party. How could anyone purport to lock out something like 750,000 licensed fishos in this State and think they could get away with it? That has been good for us and it has been exploitative for us. We have managed to gain from it and we will continue to work on it over the years, and certainly towards the upcoming election. It has worked out well for the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party. In closing, I wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a safe and happy holiday season and new year. Do not drink too much because we know what that can do to you—we have had some examples. I am just as bad as the rest of them. I have been caught sleeping on the benches a couple of times. It is nice to go on radio and explain why I dozed off in the House. It is very important to have great family time. We all realise that we should not ignore our families when we are in this place. We should be thinking about them all the time, not only during the holiday season. It is now time to turn of the phones and the iPads and spend a bit of time with our families. It does not matter whether you do that with your partner, your wife—or your cat, Walt. We do not know where we are going to be tomorrow; we do not even know whether we will be here tomorrow. So spend the time now, love while you can and enjoy the company of your families. If we do not have a balanced life, we will regret it later on. What happens after Parliament is not important; what is important is what we do right now. We can build on Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1702

that in the future, if and when we are lucky enough to do so. I encourage members to hunt, shoot, fish, farm and love nature, but also to love their families and themselves into 2019. The PRESIDENT (17:50): As we come to the end of this Fifty-sixth Parliament I take the opportunity to thank all honourable members. It has been an incredible honour and a privilege to serve as the twenty-first President of this House. I thank you for your continued trust in my presiding over this Chamber and your continued "silent" cooperation. I thank the leaders of this Chamber: the Leader of the Government, the Deputy Leader of the Government, the Leader of the Opposition, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, and members of the crossbench: The Greens; the Christian Democratic Party; the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party; and the Animal Justice Party. I thank the Government Whip and Deputy Government Whip, the Opposition Whip and Deputy Opposition Whip for continuing to follow all the instructions they are given, and for doing it in such a professional manner. I greatly appreciate the support of the Deputy President and Chair of Committees, the Hon. Trevor Khan. When we were first elected to this place in 2008 basically within a day or two of Parliament sitting Michael Costa referred to us as the "Bobbsey Twins". At the time I did not quite understand why; I truly understand it now. We have done some incredible work together. It has always been an honour to work with you and by your side. I also thank your staff—Matthew Yeldham and Richard Karaba—for their great work. They not only provide you with great assistance but I also get some help of which you may not be aware. I thank the Assistant President, Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile, and all the Temporary Chairs: the Hon. Shayne Mallard, the Hon. Taylor Martin, the Hon. Courtney Houssos, the Hon. Ernest Wong, the Hon. Paul Green and, the very latest, Mr David Shoebridge. You all make my life much easier in this chair and you have supported me enormously. I thank my chief of staff, Nicolle Nasr, who has been with me for almost eight years. I thank the rest of my team: my deputy chief of staff, Tom Anderson, Tori Crisp, Tina Daniels, Nicholas Smerdely, Barry Heyder and, the latest edition to the family, Glenn Smith. To the honourable members who will not be returning next year, I genuinely say that you will all be greatly missed. Please be assured that your footprint remains very clear in this place. As Presiding Officers and members, we are all too well aware that the success of the Parliament is only possible because of the contributions of all staff. I thank the Clerk of the Parliaments, David Blunt; the Deputy Clerk, Steven Reynolds; the Clerk Assistant, Beverly Duffy; the wonderful Senior Council Officer Kate Cadell; and the very effective team in the Department of the Legislative Council. I thank the Usher of the Black Rod, Susan Want—who yesterday afternoon and evening gave a perfect example of the work required of her—and our Chamber support team, Mark, Richard, Mike and John, who are led by Maurice, who is leaving us after an incredible 34 years. They always seem to know what is required, and when it is required, without ever being asked. I thank the entire staff of the Department of the Legislative Council. There are almost 45 of you, so forgive me for not naming each and every one. I thank the Chief Executive of the Department of Parliamentary Services, Mark Webb, and his team of directors: Julie Langsworth, John Gregor, Robert Nielsen, Mike Price and Lee Kwiez. I thank the very capable Department of Parliamentary Services, including our very new chef, Vanessa, and her wonderful team—especially for the carvery and much more. Much has been said about the amazing work of Hansard, security, building services, information technology, the library, finance, human resources, catering, education and the cleaners. That list demonstrates the enormous amount of work they do to ensure everything runs smoothly in this place. I thank the entire staff of the Department of Parliamentary Services. There are almost 200 of you, so forgive me for not naming each and every one. One does not truly appreciate the work they do until you get that enormous folder before budget estimates. When you are trying to anticipate every question that is going to be asked, you realise the amount of work they undertake for each and every one of us. I am especially proud of our work to create the new Education Centre for the Parliament, which was opened this week. The centre will allow the Parliament to extend its civic education program and increase the participation of school students from 16,000 to 30,000 per year. I thank my counterpart in the lower House, Madam Speaker of the Legislative Assembly the Hon. , for sharing this very important responsibility with me. I thank her for the continued work we do together. I take this opportunity to thank my family, and especially my beautiful wife, Mary—I am not mentioning you this time, Mick. The Hon. Mick Veitch: You can call me whatever you like, Mr President. The PRESIDENT: I am still paying for the last one. I thank my six beautiful daughters, my grandson, John, and my beautiful granddaughter, Violet, who is named after my dear late mother, Violet Ajaka. This time last year my mother was on my mind when I was making my seasonal felicitations speech because she was incredibly ill. We lost her on 2 December last year. This has been the first year without her beautiful presence in our lives. I wish each and every one of my colleagues a very merry and safe Christmas, and a very prosperous new year. As many of you have said, we are entering an election period. We will all be focused on that, but we Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1703

should not lose sight of the fact that the welfare and safety of our families comes first. Please take the time to be with your families and to be safe. The question is that the motion be agreed to. Motion agreed to. The Hon. DON HARWIN: As much as I would like to be doing something else, Mr President, I suggest that you do now leave the chair until the ringing of a long bell. [The President left the chair at 17.59. The House resumed at 18.47.] Bills WORKERS COMPENSATION LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (FIREFIGHTERS) BILL 2018 Messages The PRESIDENT: I report receipt of the following message from the Legislative Assembly: MR PRESIDENT The Legislative Assembly having considered the message dated 22 November 2018 in which the Legislative Council requested the concurrence of the Legislative Assembly with amendments to the Workers Compensation Legislation Amendment (Firefighters) Bill, informs the Legislative Council that the Legislative Assembly disagrees with the proposed amendments because: (1) Opposition amendments Numbers 1 and 2 would extend the retrospective application of the presumptive legislation in circumstances where the Government's Bill already provides limited retrospective application of the presumption. The Government's Bill also provides the opportunity for a firefighter who previously made a claim for compensation for one of the specified cancers and had that claim denied, because they were not able to prove that the cancer arose out of their firefighting exposure, to make that claim again. When the firefighter makes the claim again, the Government Bill allows them to rely on the presumption. This means that they do not have to prove the cause of the cancer; it is presumed the cancer was contracted because of their firefighting activities. (2) These provisions address any inequity suffered by firefighters who previously tried to make a claim for compensation but who could not gather the evidence to meet the burden of demonstrating causation. The Opposition amendments go further than this and apply the retrospective presumption to all firefighters, regardless of the fact that they had not previously made a claim. Updated Treasury figures indicate that this would cost up to $1 billion—an amount payable by the people of New South Wales. Further, these amendments are inconsistent with the existing legislative framework and the application of similar legislation across Australia. (3) The Greens amendment No.2 is unnecessary because following extensive discussions with the Hon. Rev. Fred Nile and the Hon. Paul Green from the other place, an agreement has been made that will ensure that proper due diligence is done on the full cost of total retrospectivity. Consequently, the Government has committed to conduct an inquiry into the full cost of retrospectivity within the first 100 Days following the upcoming election. This inquiry of the Legislative Council will be chaired by the Hon. Rev. Fred Nile and will review and report on the total cost of retrospectivity. SHELLEY HANCOCK Speaker Legislative Assembly 22 November 2018 In Committee The Hon. DON HARWIN (Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, and Minister for the Arts) (18:51): I move: That the Committee not insist on the amendments disagreed to by the Legislative Assembly. The Government has been in extensive discussions with Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile and the Hon. Paul Green regarding an agreement that would ensure that proper due diligence is done on the full cost of total retrospectivity. It is important that the full cost of this policy and the flow-on impacts for the budget bottom line for emergency services levy insurance policies and for council rates be understood fully and interrogated independently before they are introduced. As advised in the message, the assessment of Treasury suggests that retrospectivity could cost up to $1 billion. If the Committee does not take the position tonight of not insisting on its amendments, the Government would have no option but to withdraw the bill in its current form. This would mean that firefighters would have no presumptive coverage until Parliament resumes after the election in 2019. To that end I inform the Committee that the Government has committed to conduct an inquiry into the full cost of retrospectivity within the first 100 days following the upcoming election. This inquiry of the Legislative Council will be chaired by Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile and will review and report on the total cost of retrospectivity. In accordance with this agreement I am putting that to the Committee for further consideration and trust that it will return the bill to the other place as originally introduced by the Government. The Government would like to have this matter resolved before we Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1704

adjourn this year, with the protections that our firefighters want and deserve. I urge members to support the motion I have moved. The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ (18:54): The Opposition of course opposes this motion about the message from the other Chamber. It is amazing that we now have the Government coming back in here with the magical $1 billion figure as the cost. The Minister said in his second reading speech— The CHAIR (The Hon. Trevor Khan): Order! I am alive to the lateness of the hour and to the fact that it is the last day of the sitting. I am also very much aware that this is a significant bill and very important to a lot of people. I am not in any way seeking to detract from the debate, but interjections at this stage could get hopelessly out of hand. I encourage members to be restrained in their interjections. That is all I will say at this stage. The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ: As I was saying, here are the magic beans of the State Government. They come back to this Chamber with a message where they have picked a figure out of fairyland so that it is now $1 billion. The Minister in his second reading speech in the other House said: Actuarial analysis of the introduction of full retrospectivity of these provisions suggests that it would add in excess of $350 million … That is a rather large jump by the Government in just a few short hours. But, given the inaccuracy in the Government's actuarial figures on anything we have seen before the Legislative Council Standing Committee on Law and Justice where those figures have been constantly overinflated, I suspect this is like every piece of legislation we have had before us from this Government about actuarial costs. At the end of the day this cost is about people who are suffering from cancer today and who are paying for it out of their own pocket. And they are people who are doing it because they were front-line firefighters looking after the people of our State. That is the reality about the legislation in front of us. Those opposite would not say, "We are not going to compensate the Police Force because it might cost us a few bucks." They would not say, "We are not going to compensate our soldiers because it might cost us a few bucks." But somehow, when it comes to our firefighters, members of this Government walk into this Chamber with absolute bald-faced lies about the figures and say they are not going to look after our firefighters. The reality is the Government's legislation has no retrospectivity because nobody could put a claim in for these cancers as they were not covered by the Act. That is the reality. That is why Mr Proust, who in May was diagnosed with cancer and who has had invasive surgery and radiation treatment and has paid $10,000 out of his own pocket, will get nothing. He has a life expectancy of 12 months. He does not have 12 months to wait for this Parliament to go off and do its usual nonsense with the actuarial figures. By the way, unless the Government has actually stumped up the money to pay for someone to look at those figures it will not be much of a committee hearing. We have been through that before. Mr Proust will not be here for that. His family will continue to have to put their hands in their pockets to pay for his medical treatment that he needs because he looked after people on the front line in bushfires. And it is the same with Mr Debono, who was diagnosed with and is dying from cancer. There is absolutely no way this Government can come back and tell us that that is acceptable. There should be compensation. They are entitled to compensation. The Federal Government did it in 2011. Since 2011 this Government has known this legislation is needed. These two people would have been covered if this Government had done the right thing. Those opposite will not do the right thing. They will not even look at doing the right thing. They will not even take legislation back to 2011 when everybody else was eligible for it, when everybody else knew there was a problem. South Australia came on board. Western Australia came on board. Tasmania came on board. The Northern Territory came on board. Everyone has come on board except for this Government, in the biggest State in our country, with the biggest population—a Government that says it has a robust budget—and it will not look after firefighters. It is a disgrace. Labor opposes this. The Hon. ROBERT BROWN (18:59): I will speak from the Opposition side of the table because I want to face the people who are doing this tonight. You should be ashamed of yourselves for having conned the Christian Democrats into this flip. The only reason we are back here debating this motion is that Government members think they have the numbers. I cannot do anything about that—they may well have them. That is right: Just sit there and look at your phones. Do not look up. You are all a disgrace and I am ashamed to sit on the same benches as you. The Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party will oppose this motion. Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE (19:00): Firefighters run into danger. That is what they do. They run into fires and into danger and put themselves at risk. All they are asking is, if they suffer from one of 12 identified occupational cancers that we know from international literature they are likely to get when they run into fires and use the firefighting chemicals they have been using for decades, they want to be taken care of. And if they die Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1705

from those cancers—and many of them do—they want their families taken care of. That is what they are asking this Parliament to do. That is what the amendments we agreed to did. We did not put a time limit on this. We did not say, "If you are diagnosed or die after September you are covered, but if you were diagnosed before September, I'm sorry. You are on you own. You are not covered by workers compensation. Go onto social security and Medicare." That is the effect of these amendments. There are families who have lost a father or mother from a cancer that they suffered because of their exposure as a firefighter. If they will not be compensated, what will Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile say to those families? "Sorry, it was too expensive." What will the Government say to those firefighters and those families? "Sorry, it was going to cost too much to give you a $300,000 death benefit because your father or your partner died as a result of being a New South Wales firefighter." That is the answer that is being given by the Government and the Christian Democrats: "It is too expensive to pay for the death of the breadwinner in your family, despite the fact that their job was to run into fires and save us, our loved ones, and everybody else in New South Wales." The Government has told us that its new cost estimate is $1 billion, but we know what that figure is. That is the wildly-outside-the-range maximum potential liability that the actuaries have come up with. It is not the central estimate. At least there was some honesty in the earlier discussion about the central estimate, which is around $350 million and which is ridiculously inflated in itself. The idea that 2,000 or 3,000 firefighters or families of firefighters would lodge a claim within the six months that this retrospective window will be open is fanciful. The idea that the answer to this problem is to have a committee chaired by Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile, who is today voting down the firefighters and selling them down the river, is even more fanciful. The Greens will not support and give our votes to establish an inquiry chaired by the member who is supporting amendments that damage firefighters. I will also say on the record that this is a complex issue and requires dealing with actuarial assessments. I do not believe that Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile is the right person to be chairing that kind of difficult committee. It will not work and it will not deliver justice for firefighters. Firefighters deserve their Government to be in their corner when they suffer from cancer because of the work they do keeping us safe. These amendments betray them. To strip out the amendments that were being supported earlier today is a betrayal of those firefighters, pure and simple. And it is just for money. The Hon. ADAM SEARLE (19:04): I move, according to Standing Order 156 (2): That the motion of the Hon. Don Harwin be amended by omitting the word "not". This amendment is to make sure that an affirmative decision emerges from this Committee process. The position of the Labor Opposition, as articulated by the shadow Minister, is absolutely clear. This community asks firefighters to put themselves in the way of harm. If as a result of that calling and occupation they contract one or more of these scheduled cancers— Mr David Shoebridge: Which we know they do. The Hon. ADAM SEARLE: —which we know they do, we should provide a safety net for them and their families, rather than require them to go through lengthy and expensive litigation. Mr David Shoebridge: Which they normally lose. The Hon. ADAM SEARLE: I acknowledge that interjection. This is not a one-out. This may be a novel process for New South Wales, but it is in place in Victoria. Mr David Shoebridge: And in the Commonwealth, the Northern Territory, Western Australia— The Hon. ADAM SEARLE: Noted. The point is this is the largest State. We in this place and in the other place all say that we support our police, paramedics, firefighters and all those occupations where the community invites people to put their health and lives on the line. The least we can do is make sure they are looked after properly. I urge members to stick with the commitment this Chamber made earlier today and not sell out for 30 pieces of silver. The Hon. PETER PRIMROSE (19:05): Briefly, the arguments have been well put by other people on the Opposition side. I am talking to everyone on the other side. I have been here long enough to hear all members of this Chamber. When firefighters do the job we ask them to do, we praise them and say how great it is that they put themselves in harm's way. This disgusting episode is taking place just after we have just gone through Christmas felicitations and said, "Thank you and have a wonderful Christmas", but one of the groups of people who will not be enjoying Christmas with their families are the firefighters out there doing the jobs we ask them to do—firefighters, police officers and nurses. In relation to this matter, I will not even try to appeal to Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile. I will leave that to others. I ask the Hon. Paul Green to consider this matter very carefully. He voted one way earlier this morning. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1706

I know he is an honourable and sincere member. I have been on committees with him. I know he cares about what happens to people in the helping professions. If he does not take account of what the politicians say, he should take account of what the fireys say and what the victims of people doing their job have said. On this occasion, do not put politics first. Put morality first and do not vote with Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile. The CHAIR (The Hon. Trevor Khan): The Hon. Don Harwin has moved that the Committee not insist on the amendments disagreed to by the Legislative Assembly, to which the Hon. Adam Searle has moved that pursuant to Standing Order 156 (2) the question be amended by omitting the word "not". The question is that the amendment be agreed to. The Committee divided. Ayes ...... 12 Noes ...... 16 Majority ...... 4 AYES Brown, Mr R Donnelly, Mr G (teller) Faehrmann, Ms C Field, Mr J Moselmane, Mr S Primrose, Mr P (teller) Searle, Mr A Secord, Mr W Sharpe, Ms P Shoebridge, Mr D Voltz, Ms L Walker, Ms D

NOES Ajaka, Mr Blair, Mr Clarke, Mr D Colless, Mr R Cusack, Ms C Farlow, Mr S (teller) Franklin, Mr B Green, Mr P Harwin, Mr D MacDonald, Mr S Maclaren-Jones, Mrs Mallard, Mr S (teller) Martin, Mr T Nile, Revd Mr Phelps, Dr P Ward, Mrs N

PAIRS Graham, Mr J Amato, Mr L Houssos, Mrs C Fang, Mr W Mookhey, Mr D Mason-Cox, Mr M Veitch, Mr M Mitchell, Mrs Wong, Mr E Taylor, Mrs

Amendment negatived. The CHAIR (The Hon. Trevor Khan): The Hon. Don Harwin has moved that the Committee not insist on the amendments disagreed to by the Legislative Assembly. The question is that the motion be agreed to. Is leave granted to ring the bells for one minute? Leave granted. The Committee divided. [In division] The Hon. Greg Donnelly: Conscience vote for the Liberals and Nationals. Conscience vote for the Christian Democrats. [Interruption from gallery] Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile: Mr Chair, will you please silence the interjections and intimidation of members? The Hon. Greg Donnelly: Cut it out, Fred. You have got no balls, mate. Mr David Shoebridge: It is hardly intimidation. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1707

The CHAIR (The Hon. Trevor Khan): Order! Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile: Point of order: My point of order relates to intimidation by the Hon. Greg Donnelly. The CHAIR (The Hon. Trevor Khan): I just indicate two things. Firstly, we are at the end of the season and a degree of civility is required. Secondly, those in the gallery are invited to witness but not to participate. Ayes ...... 16 Noes ...... 12 Majority ...... 4 AYES Ajaka, Mr Blair, Mr Clarke, Mr D Colless, Mr R Cusack, Ms C Farlow, Mr S (teller) Franklin, Mr B Green, Mr P Harwin, Mr D MacDonald, Mr S Maclaren-Jones, Mrs Mallard, Mr S (teller) Martin, Mr T Nile, Revd Mr Phelps, Dr P Ward, Mrs N

NOES Brown, Mr R Donnelly, Mr G (teller) Faehrmann, Ms C Field, Mr J Moselmane, Mr S Primrose, Mr P (teller) Searle, Mr A Secord, Mr W Sharpe, Ms P Shoebridge, Mr D Voltz, Ms L Walker, Ms D

PAIRS Amato, Mr L Graham, Mr J Fang, Mr W Houssos, Mrs C Mason-Cox, Mr M Mookhey, Mr D Mitchell, Mrs Veitch, Mr M Taylor, Mrs Wong, Mr E

Motion agreed to. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: That the Chair do now leave the chair and report that the Committee does not insist on the Legislative Council's amendments. The Committee divided. Ayes ...... 16 Noes ...... 12 Majority ...... 4 AYES Ajaka, Mr Blair, Mr Clarke, Mr D Colless, Mr R Cusack, Ms C Farlow, Mr S (teller) Franklin, Mr B Green, Mr P Harwin, Mr D MacDonald, Mr S Maclaren-Jones, Mrs Mallard, Mr S (teller) Martin, Mr T Nile, Revd Mr Phelps, Dr P Ward, Mrs N

Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1708

NOES Brown, Mr R Donnelly, Mr G (teller) Faehrmann, Ms C Field, Mr J Moselmane, Mr S Primrose, Mr P (teller) Searle, Mr A Secord, Mr W Sharpe, Ms P Shoebridge, Mr D Voltz, Ms L Walker, Ms D

PAIRS Amato, Mr L Graham, Mr J Fang, Mr W Houssos, Mrs C Mason-Cox, Mr M Mookhey, Mr D Mitchell, Mrs Veitch, Mr M Taylor, Mrs Wong, Mr E

Motion agreed to. Adoption of Report The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: That the report be adopted. Motion agreed to. Messages The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: That a message be forwarded to the Legislative Assembly informing the Assembly that the Legislative Council does not insist on the Council's amendments. Motion agreed to. Adjournment Debate ADJOURNMENT The Hon. DON HARWIN: I move: That this House do now adjourn. WELLBEING INDICATORS Mr JUSTIN FIELD (19:33): As the year ends, it is a good time to reflect on whether we in this Parliament have improved the lives of people in New South Wales. But how do we measure whether we have been successful? The Liberal-Nationals Government might argue that a $4.2 billion surplus is a sign of good governance. In the lead-up to the State election next March, we can be sure that both major parties will be engaged in a war of words over surpluses and deficits, spending and savings and economic management. What we are unlikely to hear is a critique about whether this debate—the focus on growth, State product, housing starts and other traditional economic measures—is delivering for the people of New South Wales and improving our wellbeing as a society. Let us be honest: Not everyone in New South Wales is reaping the benefits of the current budget surplus. What is the point of having a surplus when 40,000 people in this State are homeless? We are short-changing our community by continuing to promote progress based on dollars and cents alone. In the last State budget, while the Government was spruiking a stamp duty windfall of $7.7 billion, the Australian Bureau of Statistics released data on homelessness which showed it was rising to unacceptably high rates. Between 2011 and 2016 there was a 37 per cent increase in homelessness in New South Wales. This is more than double the national average. For youth, the story was even worse. Statistics show a shocking 92 per cent increase in the rate of homelessness was experienced by people in New South Wales between the age of 19 and 24 years. A surplus means nothing to people when they have no roof over their head. It is no replacement for access to justice. It provides no comfort to those bearing witness to the destruction of the natural environment for profit. We need a new way to measure what we do in this place. We need alternative wellbeing indicators to easily measure how we pursue the improvement of wellbeing for the people of New South Wales and use those to guide our work and as a benchmark for success. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1709

The PRESIDENT: Members who wish to have a discussion will do so outside the Chamber. Mr JUSTIN FIELD: We can measure job security, wages growth, access to and affordability of health care, access to quality education for our kids, the ability to afford to live well, housing security, renters' rights, access to justice and a society free from corruption. Do we feel safe in our society? Are we free from discrimination? Do we have clean air, clean water and a healthy environment? Do we have a safe climate? Measuring those things is what should guide our work. There is a global movement among political parties, civil society groups and economists that governments move away from measuring their success in a purely fiscal framework and to develop new ways of measuring the wellbeing of the people they are governing and the environment they have a responsibility to protect. This year, as part of the New Zealand Green Party and Labour Party Confidence and Supply Agreement, the New Zealand Government embarked on consultation to develop a set of environmental, social and economic indicators that will effectively measure the wellbeing of people in New Zealand. This is just one example of a moving away from measuring success based on gross domestic product. Governments in Canada and the United Kingdom are already measuring wellbeing. In 2012, the City of Sydney Council adopted wellbeing indicators. The world is moving forward and measuring progress in a new form that serves the public's interests. Traditional budgets balance the books but they do not measure success in any meaningful way. It is time for a deeper exploration of whether our choices in this place make life better for people and our communities. In New South Wales and Australia generally, the current trend of political disillusionment and disengagement should be a trigger for us to reflect on what interests we are representing when we come to this House. I implore whichever party forms government next year to consider introducing wellbeing indicators alongside the fiscal indicators of the State budget. Wellbeing indicators would allow us as parliamentarians to understand the nuances in our community and to strive to improve people's livelihoods as well as strengthen citizen involvement and deliver regional and statewide planning that reflects the needs of the community. Measuring wellbeing is an opportunity to chart a different course, to make politics relevant to people and to ensure that the economy is serving the needs of people and not the other way round. New South Wales needs a broader measure of success with wellbeing at its heart. BRENT KELLY FOUNDATION The Hon. SHAYNE MALLARD (19:37): It was an honour to attend the inaugural Brent Kelly Foundation "Hearts Under the Stars" dinner earlier this month. The foundation was formed to raise community awareness about access to lifesaving automated external defibrillators [AEDs]. I acknowledge and give credit to this new organisation. The Brent Kelly Foundation was formed by Lisa Kelly after her husband, Brent, aged 39, passed away after suffering a severe heart attack in Fagan Park in May 2017. Brent, who had four children aged four, seven, nine and 11 at the time, was jogging with his 11-year-old daughter while helping her train for a cross-country event. Fagan Park is in a remote area of Sydney and it took the ambulance a considerable time to reach Brent. There was no defibrillator at the park and, sadly, he lost his life. The purpose of the foundation in his name is to collaborate, assist and influence all levels of government, health, medical and research industries, corporations and community groups to allow every Australian access to a lifesaving defibrillator when needed. The foundation is working tirelessly to establish a proactive fundraising campaign to assist with the installation of defibrillators. The ultimate goal of the foundation is to have a lifesaving defibrillator installed at all key public spaces across the country. But they are more ambitious than that. They want to see defibrillators in police cars, fire engines, taxis and to be common across all areas. In fact, they are working on developing an app in order to locate a nearby defibrillator when needed. They are also working hard to educate and inform the public about the important and vital role defibrillators play when a person has a sudden cardiac arrest. They want to establish a national awareness campaign on where and how individuals, businesses and community groups can locate the closest defibrillator in an emergency. It is hard and sad to think about it, but had a defibrillator been at the park or nearby, Brent may still be alive today. That is why this Government is committed to ensuring that no other family has to go through what Brent's family went through. The Brent Kelly Foundation must have had a positive impact. In June 2017 the Minister for Sport, Stuart Ayres, announced the Local Sport Defibrillator Grant Program. This will include more than 2,500 defibrillators installed across community sporting facilities over the next four years as part of a $4 million program. Clubs and councils are required to make a contribution of about 50 per cent in this purchase, up to a capped grant figure depending on their area. For the Far West remote areas the Government will contribute up to 75 per cent. The service providers for defibrillators are contracted to supply an automated external defibrillator [AED], familiarisation and support training for at least six years after the purchase. In the first round of the program, more than 420 applications for defibrillators were approved for sporting clubs and councils. The second Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1710

round has closed and Minister Ayres has begun to announce the successful grant applications. The ultimate objective is to see an AED in every sporting facility across the State, which is very laudable. I noted on social media only today that members of Parliament with community organisations such as surf lifesaving clubs have announced the awarding of grants. I take this opportunity to congratulate the Government on the Local Sport Defibrillator Grant Program that is saving lives and preventing avoidable deaths across the State. More than 33,000 Australians experience cardiac arrest every year and early access to cardiopulmonary resuscitation and defibrillation can influence survival rates by up to 75 per cent. One in 10 Australians die from a heart attack. Nearly 6,000 out-of-hospital cardiac arrests occur every year in New South Wales, a quarter of which occur in public places like parks and playing fields. That is why the Local Sports Defibrillator Grant Program is critical to saving lives. One of the challenges for the foundation is to remove the fear of using a defibrillator. In fact, a defibrillator was demonstrated to me by Professor Jamie Vandenberg of the Victor Chang Cardiac Research Institute on the night of the foundation's dinner. Amazingly, the defibrillator when opened verbally instructs on how to apply it to save life. I commend the Brent Kelly Foundation for its hard work in raising public awareness and its advocacy for wider availability of defibrillators in public places. I particularly commend Brent's wife, Lisa, who spoke beautifully at the foundation dinner about her husband and the work of the foundation that was founded in his name. Her dedication and commitment to educating the public about the importance of defibrillators is to be greatly admired. GENDER EQUITY The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ (19:42): This is possibly my last time I will speak in this Chamber. I thank the staff of the Legislative Council, the Clerks, the Deputy Clerks and Kate, who is fantastic and always polite and smiling. I want to mention some unfinished business, in particular, my great concern that this Chamber has never undertaken an inquiry into section 14 of the Mental Health Act. One of our committees should have considered that matter during this Parliament. People with a mental illness have a human right to be treated. For the past six years I have asked the Parliament to hold such an inquiry because it is probably one of our greatest challenges across the State. This Parliament also needs to pay closer attention to the place of women in our society. This Government is big on benchmarking but it must realise that some challenges are often more complex than that. Women in prison have far more complex needs than men have. Eighty per cent of women in prison have been the victim of violence at some stage. To set a benchmark to deal with our most vulnerable and difficult-to-deal-with people is a great challenge for those who look after the women's prison system. There has been a lot of talk in parliaments around the country about veterans but little attention is paid to women who have served in the Defence Force. Members may have noted an article in the Sydney Morning Herald that states that women in the Defence Force are far more likely to commit suicide than are men. Three and a half per cent of women in the Defence Force commit suicide, quite often from their experience in the Defence Force. When I was serving I remember one woman on a Navy ship who broke her leg to escape the situation she was in. When I put this to an adviser in a ministerial office he said obviously she was mad if she broke her leg. There was absolutely no comprehension of what women suffer in the community. It is very difficult for people to understand what it is like for women in non-traditional roles to constantly be at the receiving end of bad treatment, being isolated and not being taken seriously in their job—something that is true across all workplaces. I have seen a lot of that in sport. I am fascinated when men say, "We're letting women on the field." They are not letting women on the field. They own 50 per cent of the assets. For a long time men have been keeping us off something women own. It is not as if they are doing women a favour; they have been doing women a disfavour. I am sick of attending functions at which men tell me how great they have been. It is inconceivable that they do not understand how little effort they have put into women in sport. It is reflected in the funding of women's sport when they will get the last little bit of money, not the big grants. They will not get the big stadiums. They will not have the first consideration on any pool of money. If facilities need to be built for them, funds will have to come from a different pool than come straight out of consolidated revenue for the bigger sports for men. That is some unfinished business that still needs to be considered. I thank everyone in the Parliament. I think the committee process is fabulous but I submit an inquiry should be held in mental health, in particular, into section 14 of the Mental Health Act. This State would be a better place for it. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1711

FORESTRY INDUSTRY The Hon. ROBERT BROWN (19:49): I was a touch amused when the member for Murray, Austin Evans, gave a second reading speech to the National Parks and Wildlife Legislation Amendment (Riverina) Bill 2018 last week, particularly after the Hon. Rick Colless had warned me to look out for a big bang that was going to happen. The member for Murray spoke against Labor's initial decision to lock up the Riverina red gums under the National Park Estate (Riverina Red Gum Reservations) Bill 2010, and end 150 years of sustainable forestry. This I agree with. Shame on Labor. But then the honourable member went on to say the rapid passage of the national parks estate bill was "to secure Greens preferences". Correct again: two out of two. The loss of jobs in small communities and the impact on the livelihoods of families who were dependent on those jobs would be "consigned to the scrap heap". Correct. Mr Evans mentioned the "grubby deals" and the political decision "all done to appease inner city and North Coast environmental activists". Again he is correct. Mr Evans said the bill, "means we shut down an entire industry …for no reason". That is the key quote. All this from a junior member in this Coalition Government who tried to pass the marine park lockout laws to appease the inner city Green vote. This from a Government that introduced the greyhound racing ban, without a thought to what might happen to those rural communities with a strong greyhound racing culture. As the member said, they: … shut down an entire industry … for no reason. Talk about hypocrisy. As members can see, I was somewhat surprised. Since becoming the member for Murray last year, this is the first time Mr Austin Evans has paid any attention to the river red gums and their importance in the Murray—apart from setting up a Nationals Murray branch. What a try-on that was. The Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party is well aware of their significance. I have championed the forestry industry since first entering Parliament in 2006. I chased Barry O'Farrell round and round the bushes trying to get him to overturn it: No way. The Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party support Mr Austin Evans' bill. If it had been allowed to pass through the lower House and come up here, we would be on the "aye" benches. It seems that we are the only ones supporting it. Otherwise, the member would not have introduced the bill into the Legislative Assembly as a private member's bill; it would have been a Government bill. That is telling. We support a new model—as I understand, the Government does—in which all forests, including those in national parks, encourage active management and sustainable utilisation: Nil tenure. How many times I have spoken about nil tenure with the Hon. Rick Colless? And who can forget The Nationals members in this Chamber siding with The Greens and Labor to oppose the native vegetation clearing changes that I introduced for the NSW Farmers Association? The Mathoura foresters are not stupid—far from it. They will see Mr Austin Evans' bill as nothing more than lip-service from the member for Murray. Let us not mince words: The Nationals only won Murray after an eleventh-hour "dirt" campaign. They arranged a letter drop with Mr Howard and Mr Fischer, claiming a vote for Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party candidate in Murray would lead to a "Los Angeles-style massacre" in Australia: American-style gun laws. Lies, lies, lies; but they won it, so it might have been worthwhile to them. They should be ashamed of themselves. They will not get away with that lie a second time, I guarantee them that. Phil Donato will retain Orange. I think Helen will win Murray and I guarantee that we may have some company for them in the other place. I started the committee reform juggernaut in the Fifty-sixth Parliament—I got Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile to support me in that—with not one Government-controlled general purpose standing committee. I hope that I will be back next year. If I am, you have my assurance that that reform is nothing compared to what we will do in the Fifty-seventh Parliament. Merry Christmas to you all. NORTHERN BEACHES HOSPITAL The Hon. WALT SECORD (19:52): As shadow health Minister, I rise to make one of the last speeches in this Chamber before the March 2019 State election, which will be about priorities. The Liberal Party and The Nationals have the wrong priorities. They want to privatise the health and hospital system and prefer to splurge more than $2.2 billion knocking down and rebuilding stadiums whereas Labor will invest in schools and hospitals. Like my party, I believe in a strong and properly resourced public health system where hospitals are run for patients and not shareholders. That is why I take strong exception to the Liberal-Nationals approach to health. Labor supports a strong public health system whereas the Liberal Party and The Nationals support a privatised American-style model. Labor believes that investing in health makes good economic sense whereas the Liberal Party and The Nationals believe that every public need can be answered only by the private sector. That is not the reality and it misunderstands the role of government in essential services. Going to a doctor or hospital is not a lifestyle choice; it is an essential service and a core function of government. There are problems and Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1712

injustices when clinicians are instructed to triage for profit. Clinical standards and the care of patients cannot be set by commercial contracts, yet that is what is occurring under the Liberal-Nationals Government. The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. Voters need only look to the record of this Government. Members will recall that in 2016, the Liberal-Nationals Government made a surprise announcement that it would open up more than $1 billion in private tenders for construction and operation of private hospitals. The Government announced that it had plans for five privatised hospitals at Wyong, Shellharbour, Goulburn, Bowral and Maitland. One by one, they were dropped after fierce campaigns by NSW Labor, Labor members, Unions NSW, the Health Services Union and the NSW Nurses and Midwives' Association. But if the Berejiklian Government is returned in March, those privatisations will come out of the drawer. Members would be well aware that a public debate is currently raging on the merits of the privatised Northern Beaches Hospital created by merchant banker turned Premier, Mike Baird. The hospital started accepting patients on 30 October and was officially opened by the Premier on 19 November. From day one, it lurched from crisis to crisis. Doctors, nurses and health and hospital workers reported a litany of problems. But the Premier and the health Minister have said they are "hiccups" and "teething problems" and the hospital would herald a "gold standard of public-private partnerships of health care in New South Wales". But doctors and nurses know otherwise. There is still no fully functional blood bank. Nurses have reported that medical units have run out of syringes, intravenous lines, medical swabs, saline bags, needles, washcloths, alcohol rub and maternity pads, with new stock regularly taking longer than several days to arrive. In addition, the Australian Salaried Medical Officers Federation of NSW wrote to NSW Health on the weekend, pleading with the Berejiklian Government to properly staff the facility. It reported an occasion when there was an intern in charge of up to 60 patients. Elective surgery procedures have been cancelled and emergency department waits are extraordinary. Anaesthetists are the most recent group to speak out. So this is the "gold standard" of privatisation promised by the Liberal Party and The Nationals. The Northern Beaches Hospital is a mess and a basket case and must be fixed. Yesterday morning, the chief executive officer of the hospital, Deborah Latta, resigned unexpectedly. As an interim measure, I have called on the Berejiklian Government to appoint an independent external auditor to ensure that the hospital is providing basic patient care and adhering to its agreement with the New South Wales Government. But I fear that what we are starting to see is a repeat of the Port Macquarie privatised hospital debacle. In 1994, the Liberal-Nationals State Government led by Nick Greiner entered into a 20-year agreement with a private operator to build, own and operate the Port Macquarie Hospital. Problems plagued the hospital: funding for elective surgery ran out before the end of the financial year and there were lengthy lists for elective surgery. In 1996, the Auditor-General cited the hospital as an example of the public sector being left to shoulder the burden and all the risk. The Auditor-General reported: The government is, in effect, paying for the hospital twice and then giving it away. In February 2005, it was returned to public ownership by the Labor Government. It seems that the Liberal Party and The Nationals have not learned the lessons of history. Supporting public health is in Labor's DNA. It is the party that created public health, Medicare and the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. Labor has a proud record on rural, regional, coastal and country health. Between 1995 and 2011, Labor rebuilt or upgraded nearly every major hospital in New South Wales while governing a strong economy and maintaining the State's triple-A credit rating. Labor showed—indeed, proved—that a strong economy and a fair society are not mutually exclusive. In contrast, the Liberal Party and The Nationals close hospitals. So far this year, they have closed two in Sydney. Public health is not a cost; it is an investment. That is the approach that Labor will always bring to public health. Finally, tomorrow I will be given a guided tour of the Northern Beaches facility. I first sought the tour in early October and I look forward to the visit. My only regret is that there will be no more adjournment debates for me to update the House on what I find there; at least, not until after the election. I thank the House for its consideration. WESTERN SYDNEY INFRASTRUCTURE The Hon. NATASHA MACLAREN-JONES (19:57): I address the fantastic work the NSW Liberal-National Government is doing in Western Sydney, delivering the economic infrastructure for a growing New South Wales. Western Sydney is home to over a quarter of the New South Wales population and the region is experiencing rapid growth and development. In response to this, the New South Wales Government is committed to ensuring the long-term vision of Western Sydney is maintained by ensuring government infrastructure and strategies accommodate the growth in the area. The New South Wales Liberal-Nationals Government has committed to improving the railway systems in New South Wales, with more than 47 station upgrades and more on the way in our State. The Liberal-Nationals Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1713

Government is committed to improving train links—particularly in Western Sydney, where total rail trips to and from the region are set to grow by 20 per cent by the early 2020s. The new state-of-the art intercity trains for the Blue Mountains will provide wider and more spacious seating, improved accessibility and customer information to Western Sydney residents catching the intercity trains every day, along with tourists travelling to the Blue Mountains. With the new trains scheduled to be delivered to the Blue Mountains Line mid-2020, the trains will provide safety and comfort to those in Western Sydney. In addition to the Blue Mountains Line, the T1 and T2 lines have seen significant infrastructure improvements under the Liberal-Nationals Government. Since 2017, more than 300 extra weekly train services have been added to the T1 and T2 Inner West Line, accommodating areas such as Granville, Parramatta, Auburn and Lidcombe. On top of those services, the Parramatta Light Rail system will provide greater access to the suburbs of the Parramatta central business district. Stage one of the project includes a 12-kilometre track that will connect Westmead to Carlingford, improving the overall travel times of citizens within these suburbs and providing alternative forms of travel. I commend the work of , the member for Parramatta. While Labor was in office it promised the people of New South Wales 12 rail lines and had nine transport master plans and six transport Ministers, and only half the rail lines were actually delivered—another one of Labor's failed promises. Instead Labor axed 1,500 bus services in 2006, cut 416 daily train services in 2007 and slashed 233 weekly ferry services in 2010. Labor ignored the fact that our State is growing and did not take the transport needs of the people of New South Wales seriously. This Government understands that our State is growing and that it needs to deliver for the future. The WestConnex project is a fundamental part of achieving the New South Wales Government's aim to reduce traffic times, improve convenience and create more efficiency in New South Wales. That is why the Government is committed to the WestConnex project. The 33-kilometre WestConnex motorway will widen and extend the M4 and duplicate the M5 as well as cut out 52 sets of traffic lights along the commuter journey. This not only will create a free-flowing motorway but also will immensely reduce the journey time of motorists. The typical journey time from Parramatta to the Sydney Airport will be reduced by 40 minutes—thanks to this improvement. The Government has realised that with an increase in the State's population the demand for schools and hospitals also will increase. This is why the New South Wales Liberal-Nationals Government has committed to invest $6 billion to deliver 170 new or upgraded schools in New South Wales, with a large amount directed to schools in Western Sydney including the Merrylands Public School, the Parramatta West Public School, the Wentworthville Public School, the Kingswood Public School and the Penrith Selective High School, to name a few. Once again, Labor ignored the needs of our growing State while it was in office, closing more than 90 New South Wales schools. Not only did Labor ignore the needs of our State, it had a secret proposal to close a further 100 schools, axe 7,500 teachers, sell the surplus land and slash programs for disadvantaged students. When Labor had the chance to prepare New South Wales for the future, it failed. Those opposite did not consider the needs of our State nor the needs of our people. The New South Wales Government is committed to ensuring infrastructure is in place to keep the people of Western Sydney healthy and safe. The $632 million Campbelltown Hospital redevelopment will provide first- class health services for the region. In addition, the $765 million Westmead Hospital will transform health care in Western Sydney, providing a world-class facility that will not only boost jobs but also pioneer medical research. Some of the other works include the expansion of the Blacktown and Mount Druitt Hospital, continued work on the Nepean Hospital and redevelopment of the Liverpool Health and Academic Precinct and the Bankstown- Lidcombe Emergency Department. Under Labor, more than 2,000 hospital beds were closed as the New South Wales population grew by more than one million people. Labor promised hospitals in Wagga Wagga, Parkes, the northern beaches and Tamworth but delivered nothing. In 1995 Labor made many false promises. Those opposite claimed that they would halve public hospital waiting lists but in fact they doubled waiting lists with increases of more than 50 per cent in wait times. The Liberal-Nationals Government stands by the people of Western Sydney and is committed to providing world-class infrastructure and support for the region. This is a Government that understands the needs of the people of New South Wales. Western Sydney is a thriving area that will continue to grow, but only under the Liberal-Nationals Government. LIBERAL PARTY PRESELECTION The Hon. Dr PETER PHELPS (20:02): In the short time remaining, I advise members that this Sunday I will be facing preselection for the one remaining winnable spots on the upper House ticket along with my good friend the Hon. Natasha Maclaren-Jones. Of course I hope that I am successful. If I am, expect more of the same. If, however, I am unsuccessful, I would just say: Well, it's been fun. Thursday, 22 November 2018 Legislative Council Page 1714

[Business interrupted.] Bills CHILDREN AND YOUNG PERSONS (CARE AND PROTECTION) AMENDMENT BILL 2018 NATIONAL DISABILITY INSURANCE SCHEME (WORKER CHECKS) BILL 2018 Returned The PRESIDENT: I report receipt of messages from the Legislative Assembly returning the abovementioned bills without amendment. Adjournment Debate ADJOURNMENT [Business resumed.] The PRESIDENT: The question is that this House do now adjourn. Motion agreed to. The House adjourned at 20:04 until Tuesday 26 February 2018 at 14:30.