IN CONVERSATION “I am a Scientist Who Just happens To Be A Woman”

Dr. Rohini Godbole is a professor at the Centre for High Energy Physics, Indian Institute of Science, Apart from connecting the dots Born in 1952, Prof. Godbole has Bengaluru. She has of particle physics, Prof. Godbole the essence of “Poor India” when is a member of the International education was a luxury and not every worked on different Detector Advisory Group (IDAG) sector of the society could have it. aspects of particle for International Linear Collider, Rohini was a student of an all-girl phenomenology CERN. She is an active member of school where science was not even the Women in Science initiative of in the syllabus. She appeared for the over the past three the Indian Academy of Science (IAS). exam for the state scholarship in the decades. She is recipient of various prestigious 4th grade but did not get it. Determined awards and fellowships including to get it next time (7th grade) young Satyendranath Bose Medal (2009), Rohini stumped on the fact that there UR appointment with Prof. Fellowship of National Academy of will be a full-fl edged paper on science Godbole was at 4:00 p.m. Sciences (2007), and Fellowship of in the scholarship exam. But thanks to at Centre for High Energy O Academy of Sciences of Developing her teachers who taught her science Physics, IISc. Half an hour early World, TWAS (2009). after school hours she ended up getting waiting for S.K. (one with the camera) the scholarship and became the fi rst to come, Hema, Karthik, Srinath and girl student to get it (“clearly because I started discussing the sequence of Physicist’s World science was not taught in our school questions to be asked. And when we Prof. Rohini Godbole in one sentence is an that time” she exclaims). went to her offi ce a smiling face peeped “elegant amalgam of knowledge, futuristic at us saying, “Hello! Come inside.” vision, and experience”. Explaining her Impressed by her alacrity and “Are there enough chairs for all of journey from an all-girl school in Pune to determination, one of her teachers you?” she asked and gently pushed Lilavati’s Daughter, Professor Godbole whose husband was a renowned science her own chair towards us to make us describes herself as a “scientist who just expert offered her to come by to her comfortable. happens to be a woman”. house and learn science from her

20 SCIENCE REPORTER April 2017 Dual-Degree Uncertainty! support from family and understanding Prof. Godbole recounts of the immediate society matters but A meritorious student in both unfortunately for a woman in our that after her talk mathematics and science, Prof. society things are not so simple, society Rohini almost did a double-degree women came to her and is all about “drop out” and then “justify in her undergraduate course. But in it”. A woman in research has aims appreciated her saying, the end, she dropped the idea (“some and aspirations, she works hard but if sanity prevailed”, she chuckles) and “When you were speaking something comes down the line of life went forward with physics. She gave we sort of felt connected she “gives it all up” mostly because it the examination coming out as the is “expected” from her. Prof. Godbole that if you with your university topper! strongly feels that women in research circumstances can do it Being the alumnus of IIT Bombay, should take decisions as per their then we can also do it. But Prof. Godbole has many experiences evaluation and own thought process and and memories to share. To let us know not what they are “expected” to decide with women from western about the less number of girls in the or what is mentally forced on them. college she recounts that there were universities, it felt like they “It takes a big chunk of luck for 27 rooms in the women’s hostel and a woman to be a good scientist, have have different standards not all were occupied. There were 17 a happy marriage and a happy family students in her class out of which only and situation from us.” together,” she says. In our society, the three were women and as a surprise for defi nition of research is not clear up everyone all three were in top fi ve of to a great extent. If a woman who is the class. a doctor goes to hospital in the middle of night for emergency case, nobody husband. Professor Godbole emphasises Perspiration and Inspiration around her will object as it is the part that he was one of the best teachers of Prof. Godbole has been the recipient and parcel of the job but if a woman her life. “He used to take us for star of Distinguished Alumnus Award of who is a scientist has to go for taking a readings, collecting plant leaves, make IIT Bombay. Since her college days, reading or to perform an experiment at us read Marathi magazines of science,” IIT Bombay has given nearly 75-80 of the same time, people won’t understand she recalls. Around him, she realised those awards, out of which fi ve have the need. that science helps one to understand been awarded to women alumni. Acceptance of the fact that science why and how of things. Slowly and Intellectual ability alone can’t be the is important and requires equally steadily Rohini started to feel, “This reason behind one’s achievement. demanding life as other professions is what I want in my life” (to pursue Prof. Godbole infers that women who will encourage women to come out and science). initially came into science and climbed perform better. With the changes in up the ladder were highly driven, who society, acceptance of women scientists Unveiling Talent overcame the society barriers and has increased but holistic support from pushed their limits. men to their wives is still ambiguous. Prof. Godbole’s offi cial induction in Emotional support and encouragement research happened when she got the from spouse undeniably plays an National Science Talent Scholarship. As “Drop Out & Justify” important role. a young student, Rohini got exposure to “Leaky Pipelines” is a metaphor used to different standards of life and research. describe the continuous loss of women She felt that a lot of things are there to in STEM (Science, Technology, “Perception” aspire for rather than just getting good Engineering, and Mathematics). If water Prof. Godbole recalls that her young marks in school exams. (young girls) is poured into one side of colleagues used to ask her, “Oh! Now The desire to understand things a pipe which is leaking throughout its you have a student?” Her own female beyond what is given in a book, and length (women leave at various stages), students sometimes surprisingly used thinking out of the box came to her when very little water (women in higher order to say, “Ma’am, we feel so good that she started interacting with people and of the chain) is seen emerging out of the being a woman you can talk science visited different places. She describes pipe. In science courses there are 35%, just like the male faculty.” She would this period as the “awesome” three 10% in faculty positions when it gets reply: “What difference does it make years of her life. These interactions, to research institutes, the number grows when it comes to science? I study the exposures paved her way towards lesser, and even lesser at managerial same science as they do, if I understand research and became the building levels. it more I can speak better.” blocks of her transformation from a Discussing the factors behind this Science is not gender-biased; it’s “student” into a “researcher”. leak, Prof. Godbole pointed out that us who make it that way, she says.

21 SCIENCE REPORTER April 2017 Prof. Godbole says, “If things were that bad and women overcame those diffi culties, we are in a better place and can achieve a lot. So, let’s hope for the best and keep working hard. Let’s wish that after some time such discussions would not be required and we all will be seen as scientists who happen to be women.” Illustration: Maninder Singh Discrimination Of course, discrimination happens. The Faculty Report of MIT in 1999 shows differential treatment of women faculties in terms of salary, space, Various institutes provide crèches awards, resources, etc. The United “Lilavati’s Daughters” for children but only when there is a States National Academy of Sciences in Prof. Godbole’s words about the book: certain percentage of women in the 2006 came across the fact that women “I am very proud of it and very glad campus. Prof. Godbole says, “It should in science and engineering are impeded that we did it.” be made compulsory to have a good by biased institutional structure in Lilavati refers to the twelfth crèche in every science institute – not academia. century in which mathematician just where women are working. Don’t All these are examples of what Bhaskaracharya talks about a number the men scientists have children? The Prof. Godbole calls “explicit obvious of problems with his daughter, Lilavati. need for a crèche is gender-neutral. discrimination” but luckily in India we Lilavati was never married but her Circumstances should be created to don’t see such differential treatment, intellectual legacy lives on in the form make working easier for a woman here the scientifi c society indulges in of her daughters – the women scientists scientist. After all, science benefi ts “subtle discrimination”. For example, of India. from diversity.” if in a conference a speaker has to be Initially, Prof. Godbole recalls decided panel members do not come that as a scientist she never looked at up with names of women scientists on Condescending Attitude women in science as an explicit issue their own. She talks of instances where The Government has many schemes for (not because it was not important but for presenting a collaborative work the women who took a career break but the somehow she was too busy doing male researcher was preferred over the attitude is a bit condescending (“poor science). female. women, they need help”). For example, In 2001, she was invited to Paris Prof. Godbole shares that she has Knowledge Involvement in Research to give a talk at Women in Physics seen good mentors suggesting their Advancement through Nurturing Conference (International Union of female PhD students to join some soft- (KIRAN) scheme of government Pure and Applied Physics) about related money research position or some long- emphasises helping those women experiences and obstacles faced by term post-doc so that they can look scientists who are facing diffi culties women in pursuing physics. She recalls after their family and husband. This, because of “transfer of husband to other that nearly 10 people from different parts according to her, is the beginning of the location”. “Come on! Seriously?” she of the world were invited to deliver the second lane of science where growth of exclaims. “Women scientists can also talks; from Western universities, Japan, a scientist stops after which a woman have transfers irrespective of their Science Minister from China and one cannot change gear and come back to husbands’ transfer; does it mean that woman scientist from Egypt. IUPAP the main road where Bhatnagar Award those husbands also need a KIRAN being a big organization, people from and Swarnajayanti Fellowships are scheme to help them in relocation? all over the world attended it. Prof. offered. Answer to the question, “Why No, that will be too bold to say! There Godbole recounts that after her talk don’t we have higher women fraction should be a gender-neutral scheme women came to her and appreciated her in recipients of prestigious awards?” helping them both, either of them can saying, “When you were speaking we is because “we already lost them fi ve have job transfer and should receive sort of felt connected that if you with years back!” government support simultaneously.” your circumstances can do it then we

22 SCIENCE REPORTER April 2017 Acceptance of the fact that science is important and requires equally demanding Bringing Women to Science Prof. Godbole should conduct a gender life as other professions will Support from family and spouse: audit over a certain period of time. This encourage women to come Lilavati’s Daughters is about 100 will make pro-active understanding of out and perform better. women scientists with one thing in gender balance in institutes and will common: “support from family either help to take necessary measures for reducing the gender gap. can also do it. But with women from from parents or spouse”. This factor western universities, it felt like they accounts in a great way in a woman’s Gender-Neutrality: Prof. Godbole says, have different standards and situation career and life. “I am not a feminist, I am a humanist. from us.” Reservation is not the Solution: Prof. In a society we cannot have extremities; This idea appealed to Prof. Godbole feels that for bringing women it always harms the balance. It’s not Godbole – if you need to inspire people in science reserving seats for them is women’s science or men’s science, you need the examples from next door. not the solution. In a survey when she it is just science. Participation and Soon, a Women in Science Committee interacted with women from different representation should be from all over was formed in the Indian Academy of parts of the country, they strongly the society.” Science. Prof. Godbole says, “If you opined that they want to work in Prof. Godbole narrates the story ask any person walking on the road to research institutes because of their of Anandi Gopal, a young girl from name fi ve scientists of India, answers ability not because they are given a Kalyan who got married at the age of will be A.P.J. Abdul Kalam, C.V. seat. 9 to Gopalrao 20 years elder to her. Raman, C.N.R. Rao but no names of Preference to Scientifi c Age over Gopalrao helped her through studies women scientists of India (they may Physical Age with gender-neutrality: despite social resistance. Anandi say Madam Curie!). The reason is not Out of two people applying for the same eventually became the “fi rst” lady that there are no women scientists from post-doc, with the same qualifi cations doctor of India. this country, the reason is that we don’t (a) 32 years old (without any career- Prof. Godbole says, “If things know them.” break) and (b) 35 years old (with 3 were that bad and women overcame This scenario propelled Prof. years career-break), the applicant with those diffi culties, we are in a better Godbole to write about Indian women no break is preferred. Prof. Godbole place and can achieve a lot. So, let’s scientists of modern India. She shares says, “Selection criteria should be hope for the best and keep working her own experience of 1984 when based on scientifi c age not physical age hard. Let’s wish that after some time she came to Bangalore to deliver a and it should be gender-neutral, i.e. if such discussions would not be required lecture and stood star-struck on seeing a woman/man, who has taken a career- and we all will be seen as scientists who Sulochana Gadgil, a highly acclaimed break after PhD, his/her scientifi c age happen to be women.” Indian meteorologist. She told herself, should be taken into account. How With this hope and positivity “if she can do it so can I”. many years he/she has done science exuding, Professor Rohini Godbole Prof. Godbole feels a great sense after their PhD is relevant.” wished us all the very best. of gratifi cation when young women Gender Audit: In order to keep in mail her telling about themselves, how check the dynamics of changes in the Ms Khushboo Pandey is a PhD Student at the they decided to move forward with number of women doing PhD and the Interdisciplinary Center for Energy Research their research after they thought of number of women in faculty positions, (ICER), Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore- giving it up. all academic institutes according to 560012; Email: [email protected]

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