Jaap de Hoop Scheffer “NATO IS NOT LAUNDRY DETERGENT; NATO IS A UNIQUE POLITICAL AND MILITARY ORGANIZATION”
Security Index editorial board member Konstantin Eggert interviews Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, the NATO Secretary General1
SECURITY INDEX: Only a year ago many people suggested that at the Riga summit NATO would take its relationship with the three Balkan states, Albania, Macedonia, and Croatia, as well as possibly Ukraine and Georgia, much further ahead, probably even offering MAP’s to these countries. Now this will not happen. Do you feel a sense of disenchantment? de HOOP SCHEFFER: No, I do not, because I think that NATO has been consistent in the run up to the Riga summit. You know that the whole discussion preceding the summit has been debating the transformation of NATO: the legal transformation, the military transformation. You’ll certainly see that the nations in the Western Balkans you mentioned will see an encouraging, positive signal of confirmation that NATO’s door is open, you’ll certainly see in the Riga commu niqué that Ukraine and Georgia are mentioned as both nations are having so called “intensive dialogue.” But it has never been the intention of NATO to consider the Riga summit as an enlarge ment summit. From the beginning it was clear that this was not going to be the case.
SECURITY INDEX: Some observers already claimed that this reluctance to take any kind of INTERVIEWS demonstrative steps towards Ukraine and Georgia is because some of the leading members of NATO do not want, at the current time, to spoil relations with Moscow, which will be irritat ed. What would you say to that? de HOOP SCHEFFER: My answer will be that I don’t agree with those observers because I think that NATO enlargement has always been a discussion of performance, discussion of the inspiration of nations wanting to become NATO members, or NATO partners for that matter. And that has always been an autonomous process. That does not mean that there is no dis cussion of these topics in the NATO Russian Council, which will celebrate its fifth anniversary this year. We have discussed, for instance—that was before the Russian Georgian spat, by the way—we have discussed Georgia. Georgia maps out its own future. The Alliance follows that process. Georgia’s in intensive dialogue, so is Ukraine. The whole process is performance based, but I think that those observers are not right if they say that there’s direct link. As I said when I was in Moscow speaking to President Putin, speaking to Defense Minister Sergey Ivanov as well, we have a very important partnership with Russia. We should invest in that part nership and that is not, as you know, the 26 plus 1 partnership, NATO and Russia, that is a 27 partnership, which is a basic difference with other partnerships NATO has. SECURITY INDEX: You mentioned in Riga, speaking at the Riga Conference, that the next NATO summit will take place in about a year and a half, in spring 2008. What are the chances of the three Balkan states as well as Georgia and Ukraine of getting MAP, of moving signifi cantly forward towards membership in 2008?
SECURITY INDEX No. 2 (82), Volume 13 11 de HOOP SCHEFFER: My expectation is that NATO will have a summit in the first half of 2008, spring. I do not know is my answer, and that is not because I want to be defensive, I simply do not know. I get this question also from the nations concerned, of course many times. My answer always is: this is a performance based process. NATO has of course its criteria, its benchmarks, its gauges. And the Intensive Dialogue is one of the phases. I can not possibly say what will happen in 2008, if one or another will be ready for NATO membership, if a one or another will be ready for the MAP. I simply do not know, because if I knew now, I would depart from the basic performance based principle. SECURITY INDEX: Many people point out the fact that this kind of massive support of Georgian public opinion for NATO membership influences Georgian chances in a kind of posi tive way, while the split in Ukrainian public opinion has a kind of negative impact on future chances. Is this so? Is the role of public opinion really so important? de HOOP SCHEFFER: In the end, the people decide where they want to go. Governments can inspire, governments can provide direction, but in any democracy it’s the people who decide in the end. I do know, and you know, that when you look at public opinion in Ukraine for NATO member ship, that is still a challenge. And if you ask me a challenge for whom…it is a challenge for Ukraine. Ukraine is in Intensive Dialogue, we have a distinctive partnership with Ukraine, we’ll go on sup porting Ukraine whatever and whenever they ask. I will explain NATO in Ukraine, what NATO is, like I do in Russia. I don’t sell NATO, NATO is not laundry detergent, NATO is a unique political and military organization. SECURITY INDEX: You have mentioned the fifth anniversary of the NATO Russian Council in 2007. And you mentioned in your speech that you wanted to see Russia as a privileged and important partner. However, many people in Moscow, myself included, feel that the relationship is rather.. if not in crisis then in a kind of blind alley. What do you feel about that? de HOOP SCHEFFER: It’s certainly neither in crisis nor in a blind alley. But what I do feel, and as you say, in the next year we’ll celebrate five years of the NATO Russia Council, as well as ten years since the Founding Act—we’ll have a double anniversary, in fact. I think, as I said in my speech, this relationship needs investment. If you don’t invest in the company, as we know, if you don’t go on investing, the results will be less than you expect. What should we do? And if I say “we,” I specifically mean NATO and Russia and this relationship we should both invest in. Invest in prac tical cooperation, our political cooperation, not shy away from the subjects we do not agree upon. These include Georgia, where there is a spat with the Russian Federation. My message is to both: to Russia, the time has come to abandon the measures against Georgia and the Georgians; to Georgia, it’s important that the debate, as far as the tone and the level of the debate is con cerned, that the volume be decreased. I see that has been happening over the past weeks. Coming back to investment in the NATO Russian relationship, investment from the NATO side, investment from the Russian side… It’s a relationship between adults. The Russian Federation is very much adult, the NATO organization is adult. The Russian Federation is a member of the P5, is a permanent member of the UN Security Council. So Russian cooperation in necessary for the res olution of many conflicts in the world: nonproliferation, North Korea, Iran, the Middle East, Kosovo. Both partners have invested in this relationship, and that is the way we should go forward. SECURITY INDEX: Many people said that NATO would have to have an energy security poli cy. And Russia is mentioned specifically: its efforts to use energy as a kind of political tool. Aren’t you afraid this could become a basis for an anti Russian policy in NATO? de HOOP SCHEFFER: Definitely not. Not because when I mention energy security policy in relationship to NATO the line I always follow is that NATO should define the terms. And you will not hear me mentioning energy security in direct relationship to Russia or Russian policy. I mean, NATO is not the European Union, NATO is not an energy agency, NATO is NATO, a polit ical military organization, which in its strategic concept has a reference to a free flow of ener gy. And if you see a reference to energy security in the Riga Communiqué, it has nothing to do with the NATO Russian partnership, it has everything to do with finding NATO’s added value.
12 NATO IS NOT LAUNDRY DETERGENT; NATO IS A UNIQUE POLITICAL AND MILITARY ORGANIZATION And if I speak about added value, let me repeat in front of your microphone the example I have given. I could imagine NATO and partners like Russia participating … in the Mediterranean exercis es with NATO warships. NATO and its partners could look into protection of sea lanes along which natural gas or oil is transported. It’s about NATO’s added value and I would certainly not qualify any reference in the NATO Communiqué to energy security as being a threat to Russia, not at all. SECURITY INDEX: In relation to the Russian Belarusian energy crisis in the beginning 0f 2007, what specifically could NATO do to address the issue of energy security? de HOOP SCHEFFER: The gaz dispute and crisis between Russia and Belarus was, and remains, a bilateral matter. Thankfully, it was resolved rapidly through negotiations conducted between Moscow and Minsk. However, the dispute reminded all of us, producing, consuming and transit countries alike, of our dependency upon uninterrupted and reliable flows of energy. At the Riga Summit in November last year, NATO articulated its support for a coordinated international approach to determining the most important risks to energy infrastructures and to promoting their security. This decision at Riga was fully consistent with NATO's Strategic Concept in which the Allies recognise that the increasingly global dimensions of security and stability necessitated the monitoring and assessment of, inter alia, the disruption of the flow of vital resources. What NATO has agreed to do, as a first step, is to engage in consultation among the Allies on energy security issues and establish where NATO could best add value to safeguard the secu rity interests of the Allies and, upon request, to assist national and international efforts. We have consulted with Russia as well as on how best to ensure the security of critical energy infrastructure. These consultations will enable us to identify possible specific measures that could be taken in this important area. SECURITY INDEX: Discussion about the NATO operation in Afghanistan took up a lot of time at the Riga Summit. Not all countries want to contribute enough troops and send them in the line of fire. Does it mean that tensions in the Alliance jeopardize the outcome of the Afghan operation? Wasn't it too soon that NATO went "out of area"? de HOOP SCHEFFER: NATO has 33 000 troops in the UN mandated International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan. These troops come from 37 nations (all 26 Allies and 11 non NATO nations) and are deployed throughout the country and with the full support of a vast percentage of the population there. Allies are committed to provide in extremis support to each other, should the need arise. Our engagement there reflects the common recognition by NATO member nations and our ISAF partners that our security is intimately bound to the emergence INTERVIEWS of a sovereign, democratic and prosperous Afghanistan at peace. NATO is working for a com prehensive solution to challenges facing Afghanistan, including the need for reconstruction, development and strengthening democratic institutions. To this end, NATO cooperates closely with the Afghan government, as well as the UN, the EU, the World Bank and other key donors. As for the question about going "out of area", I believe it is essential to understand that for all of us, geography and distance are no longer factors in enhancing our security, and that is why NATO had to go "out of area": quite simply, if we do not deal with the problems when and where they arise, those problems will end up on our own doorstep and be even more difficult to deal with. SECURITY INDEX: In recent years there is an ongoing discussion about NATO playing a more active role in the Middle East apart from the Mediterranean Dialogue, what could this role be? de HOOP SCHEFFER: NATO has indeed an active dialogue and cooperation program with the countries from North Africa and the broader Middle East. Both Mediterranean Dialogue and the Istanbul Cooperation Initiative are important and useful tools to promote trust, confidence and mutual understanding as well as to engage in concrete cooperation on issues of common interest such as the fight against terrorism. Our Summit in Riga has clearly confirmed NATO's readiness to develop its ties with partners, including countries from this strategic region of the Middle East. SECURITY INDEX: In 2002, targets were set for European alliance members to try and decrease the technological gap with the US. It seems not much progress has been made so far. Why? Is this technological divide now completely unbridgeable?
SECURITY INDEX No. 2 (82), Volume 13 13 de HOOP SCHEFFER: I assume that the targets to which you refer are those activities set in train by Heads of State and Government at the Prague Summit in 2002, and which are known collectively as the Prague Capabilities Commitment (PCC). This package of measures was designed to improve Alliance defence capabilities in a number of key operational capability areas: creation of a rapid response force; Chemical, Biological Radiological and Nuclear defence; information superiority; combat effectiveness; and sustainability and deployability. Important progress has been made in all the identified areas and this was reflected in the announcements made at our last Summit in Riga, where the NATO Response Force, was declared fully operational. SECURITY INDEX: What about NATO's policy in Central Asia? A Special Representative for the region has been appointed. What does he do, and does this tie up with the energy security issue? de HOOP SCHEFFER: Central Asia is a strategically important region for the Alliance. NATO is interested in a stable and prosperous Central Asia, and ready to support the democratization process in the countries of the region, which is a key pre requisite for ensuring long term sta bility and prosperity. Central Asia is also extremely important for NATO in the context of NATO's contribution to the stabilization and reconstruction in Afghanistan. All five Central Asian Partner governments provide valuable support for the NATO led ISAF operation and there is potential for further developing co operation with the countries of the region in this respect. Since the appointment of a Special Representative for Central Asia and the Caucasus follow ing the 2004 Istanbul Summit, he has been working actively to enhance co operation between the Alliance and all five Central Asian countries. NATO has established high level working con tacts with the leaders of the region and as a result, most of these countries have significantly intensified their co operation with the Alliance. There is now even a positive development in the NATO Uzbekistan dialogue which was suspended after the Andijan tragedy. We are interested in further deepening our political dialogue with the Central Asian governments on regional security issues, including on the Caspian basin. We are also increasing our practi cal co operation in areas such as civil emergency planning and disaster relief, crisis manage ment, naval issues, and intelligence exchange. This practical cooperation will also contribute to the efforts of the international community to address the issue of energy security, in particular the protection of energy infrastructure, which is of great concern for Allies and Partners alike. SECURITY INDEX: You have mentioned that in the year 2009, for the 60th anniversary of the NATO Alliance, you envisage a possibility of adopting a new NATO strategy for the coming cen tury. Does it mean that the Washington Treaty of 1949 has to some extent become obsolete? How do you see the main points of this grand strategy today? de HOOP SCHEFFER: The Washington Treaty is as alive as it has ever been since 1949. I’d also say that the Washington Treaty’s Article 5 is the core of NATO, that’s NATO’s core busi ness. What I say is not referring to the century, because that would be a bit much, I think. If I see NATO transforming, developing, the moment may have come to think about a new guiding document. Not the Washington Treaty, not Article 5, to avoid any misunderstanding. That would stay as it is. A guiding document, call it a strategic concept, call it anything you’d like to call it, for NATO’s future. It’s finally the alliance who decides if they want it or not. But it is certainly not the case that the basics of NATO will change. Let’s not forget, finally, that at the Riga Summit NATO will adopt a document we call the Comprehensive Political Guides, that’s NATO jargon for [a written document outlining] what we have seen as NATO developments over the past years, what we would like to see as NATO developments in the future. There’s a whole transformation process. I think that at a certain stage, and I link it to the 60th anniversary of NATO in 2009, it might be a good idea to think about a new basic document, but certainly not about a new Washington Treaty, or Article 5. That’s NATO’s core business.
Notes
1 Konstantin Eggert’s conversation with Jaap de Hoop Scheffer took place on February 1, 2007.
14 NATO IS NOT LAUNDRY DETERGENT; NATO IS A UNIQUE POLITICAL AND MILITARY ORGANIZATION