House of Commons Debates

VOLUME 146 ● NUMBER 230 ● 1st SESSION ● 41st PARLIAMENT

OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD)

Wednesday, March 27, 2013

Speaker: The Honourable CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) 15271

HOUSE OF COMMONS

Wednesday, March 27, 2013

The House met at 2 p.m. [English] LEADER OF THE OF CANADA Prayers Mr. Randy Hoback (Prince Albert, CPC): Mr. Speaker, after days of widespread criticism against the opposition's attack on Canada's national interests, senior NDP officials have finally begun ● (1405) to speak out. [English] In his first week on the job, Saskatchewan's NDP leader, Cam Broten, stood up against the Leader of the Opposition when he The Speaker: It being Wednesday, we will now have the singing publicly stated: of the national anthem led by the hon. member for Ottawa—Orléans. I support the Keystone XL pipeline because of a triple bottom line assessment looking at environmental, economic and social reasons.... [Members sang the national anthem] However, we all know the Leader of the Opposition is not listening to his provincial counterparts. He is too busy taking his marching orders from big union bosses who do not support high- STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS paying unionized jobs in Saskatchewan's natural resource sector. The Saskatchewan people will never support his policy of paying [Translation] for massive increases in government spending through carbon taxing the Saskatchewan economic boom, nor will they ever endorse an RIGHT TO EDUCATION IN FRENCH IN SASKATCHEWAN NDP leader who has trashed high-paying unionized natural resource Mrs. Maria Mourani (Ahuntsic, BQ): Mr. Speaker, the teaching jobs during his meetings with U.S. congressional leaders in situation for students at École Boréale in Saskatchewan is Washington. deplorable. Although the school is a priority of the Conseil des Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall has it right. The Leader of the écoles fransaskoises, the Government of Saskatchewan is refusing to Opposition has betrayed Canada's national interests. provide the infrastructure required for the students' education. *** However, this French-language secondary school could poten- tially have over 400 students, but today only three students have [Translation] agreed to put up with this contempt. The other students and their THE BUDGET families have resigned themselves to attending English-language schools. In , we treat the historic anglophone minority with Mr. Alain Giguère (Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, NDP): Mr. Speaker, in respect and dignity. Why this double standard? the riding of Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, as in the rest of Canada, people are crippled by unemployment. People who lose their jobs often find Samantha, Ryan and Jonathan are true heroes. These young themselves with no future. people have persisted over time, come hell or high water, to assert It would have been useful to have a plan to create jobs and their right to education in French. They are proof that Canada does measures to modernize our waste water treatment infrastructure and not treat all its children the same way. increase public transit in the suburbs, but there is nothing, no effort whatsoever. I salute their courage, their determination and especially the strength of their commitment to a cause that transcends boundaries, What is worse, this budget attacks measures that were helping in the cause of dignity and the right to live in one's own language. combatting the economic downturn. It reduces credit unions' ability to support small business. The Conservatives are also attacking To these young people and to all francophones outside Quebec, I labour-sponsored funds, which support venture capital, and stunting say, “Your fight is our fight, brothers and sisters.” regional economic growth. 15272 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Statements by Members Changes to job training will once again force the provinces to do Here is to removing the stigma of autism. more with less—more austerity and more of the load to carry. Why sabotage something that is working? *** If you cannot help, at least do no harm. We needed this ideology- driven budget like we needed a hole in the head. ● (1410) *** FRANCO-ONTARIAN NEWSPAPER GEORGETOWN CITIZEN OF THE YEAR Mr. Royal Galipeau (Ottawa—Orléans, CPC): Mr. Speaker, the future belongs to those who fight. A century ago today, the first issue of the daily newspaper Le Droit rolled off the presses. Hon. (Wellington—Halton Hills, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I am proud to be able to represent the good people of Created by laymen and Oblates in reaction to the hated Halton Region and Wellington County in the House of Commons. Regulation 17, the purpose of this newspaper was to support continued education in French in Ontario. Yesterday, the Georgetown Lions Club named Mr. Graeme Since then, Le Droit has become a unifying force for Canada's Goebelle citizen of the year. For 45 years, Graeme has served his francophones in minority situations. community by volunteering with countless organizations and [English] charities. Through his professional and philanthropic endeavours, including the Georgetown Hospital, the Cancer Society, YMCA and My grandmother learned to read by perusing its pages, and so did many more, Graeme has contributed to making Georgetown the I. I was their paper boy from 1959 to 1964 and served as a summer strong community it is today. correspondent in 1967. [Translation] It is people like Graeme and his wife Roslyn that make Wellington Le Droit enabled Ontario's francophones to get quality informa- —Halton Hills one of the best places to live, and why Halton Region tion on both world wars, on linguistic minority struggles and on the and Wellington County have consistently had the lowest crime rates decisions of the last 30 federal parliaments. in Canada. In fact, for the last several years Maclean's magazine has To the people who put this newspaper together, congratulations named Halton Region and Wellington County two of the three safest and thank you for contributing to the French fact in Ontario. communities in Canada. Recently, MoneySense magazine named Halton Hills the fifth-best small community in Canada. Certantibus Futura.

*** It is people like Graeme Goebelle who make all the difference. [English] Congratulations to Graeme and his wife Roslyn. AUTISM Hon. Hedy Fry (Vancouver Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, April 2, *** 2013, will be the first official World Autism Awareness Day in Canada. B.C. FISHERIES Last October, the House passed Liberal senator Jim Munson's bill to mark the day. In 2007, the United Nations declared April 2 as World Autism Awareness Day in order to bring world attention to Ms. Jean Crowder (Nanaimo—Cowichan, NDP): Mr. Speaker, autism, which affects tens of millions globally. constituents in Nanaimo—Cowichan expected to see support for fisheries in this latest budget or, at the very least, some action on the Persons with autism have told me of the discrimination they face 75 recommendations from the Cohen commission on salmon. in society. Many of them function well but are often misunderstood. Instead, the Conservatives turned their back on B.C. fisheries and We must understand the nature of autism in its full spectrum. Those fish habitat once again. with autism always find it difficult to get jobs. They are seen as mentally challenged, when many of them have extraordinarily high IQs. After devastating cuts in previous budgets that reduced habitat Awareness and understanding are key to providing the necessary protection and the number of enforcement officers on the water, the supports that persons with autism need, so they can, wherever new cuts would reduce front-line services even more. B.C. has seen possible, function autonomously in society. the Kitsilano Coast Guard station close and regional fisheries offices close in many communities, leaving B.C. with only five offices and Today will be “Light It Up Blue” when landmarks will be lit up in the fewest staff since 1983. As well, the consolidation of marine blue, just as BC Place, Rogers Arena and Science World were last communication traffic services raises concerns that the B.C. coast year in Vancouver Centre. will not be adequately served. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15273

Statements by Members DFO is the federal department responsible for tsunami debris, Le Droit is the leading source of news for francophones in the especially large pieces that are a hazard to navigation. With the many Outaouais and Ontario. The newspaper was founded when the use of large resource projects planned in B.C. that need input from DFO French in Ontario schools was banned, and ever since then it has staff before proceeding, we need investments in staff, not reductions. been involved in all battles to defend the francophone community. Cutting fisheries and habitat protection is the wrong priority for British Columbians. As representatives of the region, the members for Gatineau, Hull *** —Aylmer and Ottawa Centre join me in thanking the newspaper for always being the standard-bearer for the francophone cause. PLEASANTDALE SCHOOL Mr. Ed Komarnicki (Souris—Moose Mountain, CPC): Mr. Over the years, Le Droit has been able to reinvent itself and Speaker, today I congratulate teacher Sarah Driscoll and the team of remain faithful to its readers without compromising its main mission: grade seven and eight students at Pleasantdale School in Estevan for providing information. Thanks to the great work of the people who winning a day with the infamous Rick Mercer on Monday, March put the newspaper together, it has built a solid reputation for 25, and for helping spare children from the ravages of malaria by independence and rigour. Its daily coverage of political, economic raising $5,439 in the Spread the Net student challenge. and cultural news speaks for itself. The best compliment we can pay They did this through bake sales, penny and bottle drives and a to Le Droit is to say that it has remained faithful to the people who grade seven and eight school dance. As Mercer noted, “Every now live here, especially through its extensive coverage of local events. and then a school comes along and they punch way above their weight. They raise more money than anyone could ever imagine and The entire NDP team joins us in congratulating the artisans, past Pleasantdale is one of those schools”. He said, and I agreed, “You... and present, who have made Le Droit an authoritative news source are amazing, you raised over $5,000 and that is over 500 bed nets. for 100 years. That is saving 500 lives, that is twice as many people that are in this school and you...did that for children on the other side of the world”. *** For those who wish to watch the program, it will be aired on April 2. ● (1415) Indeed, congratulations to Pleasantdale School in Estevan and [English] everyone who was involved.

*** NATURAL RESOURCES ABORIGINAL WOMEN'S RIGHTS Mr. Rodney Weston (Saint John, CPC): Mr. Speaker, our Mrs. Stella Ambler (Mississauga South, CPC): Mr. Speaker, for Conservative government is proud to stand in support of Canada's more than 25 years, aboriginal women on reserves have been natural resource sector and the thousands of it employs. without legal protections that all other women in Canada take for Our support is in stark contrast to that of the leader of the NDP, who granted, protections they especially need in situations of family attacks the growth of this sector as a disease and goes to Washington violence. When a relationship breaks down, a spouse can ban a and claims that Canadians are against pipeline projects. woman from her home without her consent.

Aboriginal peoples, international organizations and even the The fact is that my constituents in Saint John and families right Manitoba NDP have called for this to change. We have introduced across New Brunswick stand with our Conservative government in matrimonial property rights legislation to protect aboriginal women support of a west-east pipeline. This pipeline will bring jobs, and give them the same rights as all other women in Canada. This economic growth and long-term prosperity to New Brunswick and bill would allow judges to enforce emergency protection orders for all of Canada. Our Conservative government supports this project the safety of the woman and child. and, unlike the leader of the NDP, we will be unabashed in our support in New Brunswick, Ottawa and on the world stage. Yet shockingly, the New Democrats and the Liberals are opposing it. This is shameful. First nations women need these rights. *** I am proud to say that our Conservative government continues to stand up for aboriginal women. [Translation] *** [Translation] WOMEN'S RIGHTS

FRANCO-ONTARIAN NEWSPAPER Mrs. Sadia Groguhé (Saint-Lambert, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I Mr. Mathieu Ravignat (Pontiac, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the would like to take this opportunity to draw parliamentarians' newspaper Le Droit is celebrating its centennial today. Congratula- attention to Amnesty International's “I love my body, my rights” tions. campaign on sexual and reproductive rights. 15274 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Statements by Members The purpose of this campaign, which is running throughout 2013, We thank Kevin Page for serving Canadians with such honour and is to raise public awareness of forced marriage and pregnancy. Many courage. activities have been organized in order to prepare for the International Conference on Population and Development, which *** is scheduled for 2014 and will focus on women's rights. THE ECONOMY Even today, 10 million young girls under the age of 18, sometimes even as young as seven or eight, are forced into marriage without Mr. Corneliu Chisu (Pickering—Scarborough East, CPC): Mr. their consent, usually to much older men. They are then often forced Speaker, our government remains focused on what matters to to get pregnant, which frequently puts their health and life at risk. Canadians, the economy. Last week, the Minister of Finance stood in the House and delivered Canada's economic action plan 2013, a plan As parliamentarians and as citizens first and foremost, we cannot for jobs, growth and long-term economic prosperity. accept this. We must fight these manifest injustices and do everything we can to protect women's rights. Constituents in my riding were happy to hear of the support for *** apprentices, expanded support for small businesses, investment in world-class research and innovation and tariff relief on baby clothing [English] and sports and athletic equipment. INFRASTRUCTURE Unfortunately, the Leader of the Opposition and his party have Ms. Joyce Bateman (Winnipeg South Centre, CPC): Mr. been busy focusing their priorities elsewhere. Their plan is for $56 Speaker, thanks to our government, the economic action plan has billion in reckless spending, a $20 billion job-killing carbon tax, introduced the largest long-term federal commitment to infrastruc- trash talking Canada on the international stage and supporting cop ture in our nation's history: $70 billion over the next 10 years. No shooters like Gary Freeman. wonder the FCM said that our budget delivered significant gains for Canada's cities and communities. Investment in Canada's public While we on this side of the House have a real plan for hard- infrastructure will create jobs, economic growth and provide a high- working Canadians, the Leader of the Opposition and his party seem quality of life for families across Canada. to have their priorities mixed up. We will continue to work hard for [Translation] Canadians and remain focused on the economy. Through our investments in infrastructure, the average age of *** public infrastructure has dropped from 17 to 14 years. ● (1420) Over the next two years, we will invest close to $10 billion in infrastructure. That is more than the previous Liberal government [Translation] spent in the 13 long years it was in office. [English] CONSERVATIVE PARTY OF CANADA The municipalities are on board with our infrastructure plan. Will Ms. Mylène Freeman (Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, the NDP do the same for Canadians? NDP): Mr. Speaker, although I have received numerous compli- ments on my tourtière, no one has ever told me it would make me a *** wonderful wife. I must admit that I have never had the opportunity to cook for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, who would fit right in PARLIAMENTARY BUDGET OFFICER on Mad Men with his view of women. Hon. Scott Brison (Kings—Hants, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I rise to pay tribute to Kevin Page, Canada's first parliamentary budget This vision unfortunately represents the Conservatives' philoso- officer. The PBO was created to expand public access to information. phy. They are remaining silent on this issue, and meanwhile, the Mr. Page was, and remains, perfect for that role. He is a talented member for Langley is leading a backbench revolt. He is openly economist with a deep understanding of government finances. calling for more freedom so that he can attack a woman's right to Canadians knew that they could count on him for the real numbers, choose. whether it was on F-35s, Afghanistan, the sustainability of the OAS or by how much EI rates would actually go up. Canadians deserve better than a party torn between its old macho As the PBO, Mr. Page consistently defended the right of Canadian men making sexist comments and these young men trying to trample taxpayers to know how their money was being spent. He went to on women's rights. court so that the law which would give us that right to information would be enforced. He stood up to protect the vital role of This saga makes it clear that it is the Prime Minister's Office in Parliament and its power over the purse, a power that is the Ottawa that decides what will be said in Saskatchewan, Alberta and foundation of our democracy and our Constitution. the Yukon. Kevin Page is a public servant in the very best sense of the phrase: The NDP is pro-choice. We believe in a woman's right to choose always placing the public good before any personal career ambitions. and in an MP's right to freedom of expression. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15275

Oral Questions [English] ● (1425)

WORLD AUTISM AWARENESS DAY Right Hon. (Prime Minister, CPC): Mr. Hon. Mike Lake (Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, CPC): Speaker, I know that the NDP is in favour of raising taxes in order to Mr. Speaker, April 2 is World Autism Awareness Day and 15 years sink us deeper in debt and increase spending. However, that is not since my son Jaden was diagnosed. As I have shared many times what Canadians want. here, life with autism really is an adventure, unique for every family living with it. Today the OECD indicated that Canada is keeping its taxes low. Our world today is one in which our 13-year-old daughter That is our commitment to the Canadian people. babysits our 17-year-old son, a world in which I often discover my iPad YouTube viewing history filled with Barney episodes and home [English] video clips of airplane takeoffs and landings posted by random strangers from around the globe, a world in which visitors to our Ms. Megan Leslie (Halifax, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I understand home experience odd and memorable moments, like the dinner this why the government's backbench is frustrated. Answers like that past summer when Jaden suddenly decided to guzzle Italian salad have been frustrating me for quite some time. dressing straight from the bottle. The truth is clearly spelled out in black and white on pages 331 From time to time, when I tell someone Jaden has autism, they and 332. This is not a make-believe tax, unlike the kind the will mention Rain Man and ask if he has some kind of special power. Conservatives love to accuse us of; these are billions in actual new The answer, of course, is yes. No matter what someone's mood is, he taxes that will impact real people. can bring a moment of complete joy without uttering a single word.

I have even seen him bring members from all sides of this crazy With all these half truths, can the Prime Minister not understand place together on occasion, and I cannot think of a more special why Canadians are angry and his backbench is frustrated? power than that. Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC): Mr. Speaker, we will have a vote on the budget tonight, a budget that has ORAL QUESTIONS been very well-received by Canadians.

[Translation] I know we will have very strong support on this side of the House. TAXATION I hope members on that side of the House will finally give up these attempts to convince people they would somehow be better off with Ms. Megan Leslie (Halifax, NDP): Mr. Speaker, despite the higher taxes, somehow be better off at raising tax rates on employers, finance minister's claims, there are tax hikes worth billions of dollars somehow better off by hiking the GST back up to 7%, somehow in his latest budget. better off by making a carbon tax at $20 billion. He should read the second annex to the budget: a tax on credit unions, a tax on safety deposit boxes and a tax on hospital parking. The OECD and others have recognized that Canada is on the right track, balancing our budget, keeping our debt low and keeping our The Prime Minister promised that there would be no tax hikes. taxes down. Why did he let his Minister of Finance contradict him? Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC): Mr. *** Speaker, the exact opposite is true. ETHICS I know that the NDP wants to increase the GST for consumers across Canada. It wants to raise taxes for job creators and, more Mr. Charlie Angus (Timmins—James Bay, NDP): Mr. Speaker, specifically, it advocates a carbon tax of more than $20 billion. it is the Prime Minister who has hit Canadians with higher taxes and Our commitment, recognized today by the OECD, is to balance his caucus is in revolt. the budget while keeping federal taxes low. Ms. Megan Leslie (Halifax, NDP): Mr. Speaker, with answers Speaking of rogue Conservatives, we now have yet another like that, it is no wonder Conservative backbenchers are revolting. Conservative ethics scandal. We have the ministers of trade, aboriginal affairs and industry who all accepted calls from a former New customs tariffs will increase product prices across the board. colleague. They received insider information about the joint venture between Progress Energy and the Chinese state-owned Petronas. The Conservatives are also looking to take $205 million from credit union customers and millions of dollars more from those who are sick and from their families who use hospital parking. There are rules around this kind of behaviour. Why did these ministers not immediately convey this information about these calls Why did the Prime Minister not keep his promise? to the Ethics Commissioner? 15276 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Oral Questions Hon. (President of the Treasury Board and American government on an ongoing basis on this matter that is Minister for the Federal Economic Development Initiative for important, in our judgment, to trade, to jobs and to energy security Northern Ontario, CPC): Mr. Speaker, in fact, that is exactly what on both sides of the border. happened. It was this caucus, this party, this government that actually created the Federal Accountability Act back in 2006. We are the ones Obviously, I would be delighted to work with all Canadians who who created the restrictions on lobbying. We wanted to ensure there favour these good things for our country. If the leader of the Liberal was more transparency and accountability. That is exactly what we Party could point me to any, I would certainly be willing to take that did. list. Members of our caucus reported this matter to the commissioner. [Translation] We are acting by our own rules. I wish the opposition would do the same thing. Hon. Bob Rae (Toronto Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, sometimes tough economic times create opportunities. Mr. Charlie Angus (Timmins—James Bay, NDP): Mr. Speaker, that is the problem. The Conservatives are following their own rules. They are not following the rules that belong to all Canadians. Being We have premiers going to Washington as private individuals, and Conservatives really does mean that they never have to accept others are as well. I think it is important that the United States is fully accountability. aware that it is in Canada's national interest to have the opportunity to export what we produce in this country to the United States and This is another blow to the credibility of the Minister of Industry, elsewhere. who is already neck deep in ethical scandals. He has two ethics violations and has two other investigations under way. Why not have a real team Canada, one that includes members of the opposition, premiers and other people, under the leadership of Why is the Prime Minister not setting an ethical standard for the the , of course? members of cabinet? Hon. Tony Clement (President of the Treasury Board and Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC): Minister for the Federal Economic Development Initiative for Mr. Speaker, I can assure the House that this government is Northern Ontario, CPC): Mr. Speaker, as I already explained, this coordinating its activities with the other governments in Canada, the matter was referred to the ethics commissioner by us. We are vast majority of which strongly support this project. We will following the rules that were duly passed by Parliament. continue to convey that message.

However, on the other side of the House, that party, the NDP Obviously, if the members of the Liberal Party agree and are caucus, had a $300,000 payment by the unions, contrary to our laws, willing to join in on this effort, I am always happy to accept such an contrary to the finances act. That is its record. I will put our record offer of assistance. against its record any day of the week. [English] The Speaker: The hon. member for Toronto Centre. Some hon. members: Hear, hear! Hon. Bob Rae (Toronto Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I know it is hard for the Prime Minister to believe this, but actually I think this is *** a good idea. There is no catch to this and no side to this. There is simply a statement that says we have an opportunity to reinforce the THE ENVIRONMENT importance of the economics of this federation. We have an Hon. Bob Rae (Toronto Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, they may opportunity to reinforce co-operation between the provinces, want to wait for the question before they stand up and applaud. between the provinces and the federal government, and dare I say it, even among those in the coalition of the willing in the House who I would like to ask the Prime Minister a question, and I have a believe that actually getting our products to market is a good idea. simple proposal to make to him. We have had the leader of the Democrats in the House of Representatives say that her under- standing from a recent conversation with the leader of the New I would like to ask the Prime Minister to lead the way. Democratic Party was that Canadians were opposed to the pipeline Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC): Mr. to the United States. I wonder if the Prime Minister would consider Speaker, as I said, we are working with every level, with the private this. Instead of simply having hockey coaches talk to the President of sector and with other levels of government, certainly, to commu- the United States about the importance of this issue, would the Prime nicate this message. I would be delighted, as I said, to work with any Minister consider leading a delegation of team Canada, members of members of the Liberal Party who share our objectives. this House who agree that this is an important question for Canada and the premiers of Canada? Would the Prime Minister consider I think what I am saying to the leader of the Liberal Party is that I leading that delegation? think this is a good idea. I wish he had such good ideas a bit earlier. ● (1430) Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC): Mr. While I am on my feet, I do want to thank him for his service, for Speaker, I can certainly assure the leader of the Liberal Party that our bringing his intellect, his patriotism and his tenacity to the House of government is making its views known at every level of the Commons. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15277

Oral Questions TAXATION That is helping with end-of-life care for seniors. That is pretty Ms. Peggy Nash (Parkdale—High Park, NDP): Mr. Speaker, important. going-back to the budget, the Conservatives' doublespeak has reached new heights. After promising no new taxes, pages 331 and To answer specifically the hon. member's question, these are 332 of the budget have in fact a long list of tax increases. There are companies that are supplying parking to hospitals and they were increases to credit unions, new taxes on safety deposit boxes and a getting a special tax reduction. We do not think that is necessary. $1.1 billion tax hike on imported consumer goods. [Translation] Now that the minister of state has had 24 hours to reflect on Ms. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe (Pierrefonds—Dollard, yesterday's answers, would he now acknowledge that he was wrong NDP): Mr. Speaker, unlike some of his colleagues, the minister of and admit that the budget included new tax hikes? state can still talk about his file. Congratulations. However, could he Hon. (Minister of State (Finance), CPC): Mr. stop changing the subject? Speaker, I congratulate the hon. member for getting up to page 331 of the budget. Raising taxes on credit unions is bad news for seniors because many of them are members. Their dividends will be taxed, as will What I would like to say are the facts, and let us let the facts their life insurance premiums, most likely. If the Conservatives are answer this question. Since 2006, we have actually eliminated 1,900 wondering where I got this information, they can take a look at pages different tariffs. What has that accomplished? That has provided 367 and 368 of their own budget. $525 million in tax relief every year since then. That is what we do with taxes. We lower them. Why is the minister of state not aware of the contents of his own budget? Why is he saying that taxes are not being raised? ● (1435) Ms. Peggy Nash (Parkdale—High Park, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I [English] guess girls can cook but they cannot read budgets. Hon. Ted Menzies (Minister of State (Finance), CPC): Mr. Canadians can check for themselves on pages 331 and 332 of the Speaker, speaking of credit unions, I would remind the members of budget. All the new Conservative taxes are laid out there. the official opposition that in budget 2010 they actually voted against both of those budget implementation acts. We actually Yesterday the minister claimed that no one would find tax approved what the credit unions had asked us for. As credit unions increases in this; yet we have found plenty of them. Let me try a are growing, and we continue to support credit unions, they actually specific example. Could the Minister of State for Finance acknowl- wanted to be federally regulated. We put that in the budget. edge that the budget raises taxes on life insurance? Hon. Ted Menzies (Minister of State (Finance), CPC): Mr. We support credit unions, unlike the opposition. Speaker, as part of our low tax plan we continue to reduce taxes in every way. In fact, $65 million in tax reductions comes from the six [Translation] free trade agreements we have signed since forming government. Mr. Guy Caron (Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Bas- That is over and above the $525 million that I referred to in the ques, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of State is skating around this previous answer. That is a grand total of $590 million in tax relief issue, so it is no surprise that there is a snowstorm of opposition to every year, and I believe that the NDP voted against most of that. the Conservatives in Quebec that is snowballing across the country. [Translation] Ms. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe (Pierrefonds—Dollard, The Minister of Finance was clear. He said that he would not NDP): Mr. Speaker, when we see how the cabinet keeps its increase taxes. The Prime Minister was clear. He said that he would members from talking, we can understand why the minister of state not increase taxes, yet this Conservative budget includes new taxes is avoiding talking about tax hikes in the budget. However, the on hospital parking, labour-sponsored funds, credit unions, bicycles, Conservatives are using these tax hikes to dip into seniors' wallets. safety deposit boxes and small businesses. The Conservatives and the Minister of State flat out deny what is on pages 331 and 332 of Seniors are more likely to use health services, and they are the the budget. ones who will pay for the higher parking taxes when they go to the hospital. Then there is the fact that the Conservatives are raising My question is simple. Why are the Conservatives refusing to tell customs tariffs on everyday products. Canadians the truth? Why are the Conservatives raising taxes on products and services [English] that seniors use? Hon. Ted Menzies (Minister of State (Finance), CPC): Mr. [English] Speaker, we are happy to tell Canadians the truth. Hon. Ted Menzies (Minister of State (Finance), CPC): Mr. Speaker, one thing that has been overlooked by the opposition is the The fact is, we have reduced 150 different taxes for Canadians. fact that we are supporting palliative care in the budget. We have a The average Canadian family of four is paying $3,200 less every very good program that was initiated at the hospital here in Ottawa. year. 15278 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Oral Questions I will quote the OECD from today that says: CANADA REVENUE AGENCY Canada has, over the last five or six years, already decreased the tax burden on Mr. Murray Rankin (Victoria, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the minister low incomes a lot, especially for families with children. seems a bit angry and frustrated, much like one of his party's ● (1440) backbenchers.

[Translation] While the government is increasing taxes on hospital parking, Mr. Guy Caron (Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Bas- safety deposit boxes, small businesses, credit unions and groceries, it ques, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I was wondering how the Minister of is still not imposing sanctions on people who evade taxes. Their State would be able to defend the indefensible. He does so by talking figures on tax evasion do not cut it. about anything but the 2013 budget. How can the Conservatives claim to be combatting tax evasion The Minister of State for Finance is repudiating the work done by while they are making cuts to the Canada Revenue Agency's budget? the Minister of Finance. He is repudiating the taxes in the 2013 budget. He would rather make up stories about a future NDP [English] government's policies than talk about the tax hikes his government Hon. (Minister of National Revenue and Minister put in this budget. for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, CPC): Mr. The Conservatives owe it to Canadians to be honest. Will they Speaker, we are keeping tax rates low by closing tax loopholes have the courage to do so, or will they continue to deny the truth? and making the system fairer for Canadians. We will launch the stop international tax evasion program to improve identification of tax [English] evasion to protect honest Canadians. Since 2006, our government Hon. Ted Menzies (Minister of State (Finance), CPC): Mr. has introduced more than 75 measures to improve the integrity of our Speaker, the reality is that the opposition actually has the opportunity tax system. this evening to support the budget and support the accelerated capital cost allowance for small businesses. Why did we put that in the If opposition members are serious about cracking down on tax budget? It is because businesses asked for it. Businesses want to evasion, then they will support our budget. expand and grow their opportunities in this country. Mr. Murray Rankin (Victoria, NDP): Mr. Speaker, they are making up numbers on tax cheats, making up answers about tax There is a lot in this budget that Canadians asked for. We have increases and even their own backbenchers do not trust the Prime never had a budget with so much broad support across the country. Minister. The only people who seem to be opposed to this budget are those sitting opposite. The reality is, Conservatives are raising taxes on almost every- [Translation] thing while cutting the people who go after tax cheats. How can they expect any credibility with their claims of cracking down on Mr. Alexandre Boulerice (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP): enforcement when $100 million is being cut from the CRA and Mr. Speaker, that is nonsense. 3,000 staff are being eliminated? Let me tell it like it is. The only real reason the Conservatives are Hon. Gail Shea (Minister of National Revenue and Minister abolishing the labour-sponsored funds tax credit is because the funds for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, CPC): Mr. are a union initiative. They could not care less about how these funds Speaker, our government is committed to ensuring value for benefit economic development or help people save. A workers' group Canadian taxpayers' money, and not one audit position will be is dangerous to them. eliminated. As a matter of fact, we will add to those positions. That is why, since 2007-08, we have reduced spending on overhead Even Canada's Venture Capital and Private Equity Association is activities, such as travel and office supplies, hospitality and denouncing the Conservatives' decision. The association does not consultants. understand the mixed signals the Conservatives are sending. Like the association, the NDP wonders why the Conservatives are Budget 2013 savings apply only to our internal operations, such as attacking investments in our own backyard. administrative costs. That is why we do expect the opposition to support our budget, because it is good value for taxpayers. Hon. (Minister of State (Small Business and Tourism), CPC): Mr. Speaker, I do not understand why my *** colleague is against this measure, which is good for small investors. Investors in Canada and Quebec will stop subsidizing very well- ● (1445) capitalized labour-sponsored funds to the tune of $140 million a [Translation] year. THE BUDGET Now, these labour-sponsored funds will have to be competitive and have good returns to attract their investor clients. My colleagues Hon. Bob Rae (Toronto Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the budget opposite should support this measure, which is good for entrepre- is always important to Quebeckers, but this one contains two items neurs and small investors. that are going to cause them some serious problems. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15279

Oral Questions The first problem is the attack on labour-sponsored funds, which launched in 2007 and will end on March 31, 2014, provided have provided an important foundation for venture capital in the $33 billion. The money that is being invested this year came from province of Quebec. that program. The second major problem is that the government is spending less on infrastructure this year than last year, and it will spend even less Our new program is for April 1, 2014, and subsequent years. As I next year. said, in Quebec, the federal government cannot work directly with municipalities. Municipalities in Quebec have to send their projects Those are the two major problems that this budget poses for to the Government of Quebec, which sends the invoice to the federal Quebeckers. government. We pay the province when we receive the invoice. Hon. Denis Lebel (Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, Minister of the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec, Minister of Intergovern- *** mental Affairs and President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I have spoken with a number of [English] municipal representatives in Quebec in the past few hours about the new infrastructure plan, and that is not how they are interpreting things. People see this as the largest plan Canada has ever seen. ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS As far as investment in infrastructure is concerned, the current building Canada program will come to an end on March 31, 2014, Ms. Jean Crowder (Nanaimo—Cowichan, NDP): Mr. Speaker, and the new plan will be ready on April 1, 2014. We hope that every under the Conservative government, the situation for first nations province will sign on as soon as possible. students on reserve is only getting worse. A new report released yesterday shows that some on-reserve schools are receiving almost [English] 50% less than the provincial schools, and yet the budget did not Hon. Bob Rae (Toronto Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I appreciate include any money to close this increasing funding gap. the answer from the minister, but the fact remains that in 2013-14, that is to say the fiscal year under way, the government is actually going to be spending $1.5 billion less in the fund that last year was The government has an obligation to fund first nations students at $1.7 billion. This year it is simply going to be $200 million. an equitable rate. Why are Conservatives ignoring the funding needs of on-reserve schools and the students? How can the minister stand up and say this is great news for the municipalities, when, in fact, they are going to be spending $1.5 Mr. (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister billion less? of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, for the Hon. Denis Lebel (Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency and for Communities, Minister of the Economic Development Agency of the Federal Economic Development Initiative for Northern Canada for the Regions of Quebec, Minister of Intergovern- Ontario, CPC): Mr. Speaker, we spend an average of approximately mental Affairs and President of the Queen's Privy Council for $13,500 per student on reserve, and this is comparable to provincial Canada, CPC): Mr. Speaker, my colleague knows very well that in funding for education. Quebec, we cannot work directly with municipalities. We have to go through the province. Municipalities have to send their projects to the province, and the province sends the projects to the federal In last year's budget, we invested significant resources for first government. We pay when we receive the invoices, and that is that. nations education, and the opposition voted against it. Tonight they have a chance to redeem themselves by voting in favour of first If the province does not send us the invoice at the right time, we nations education in Canada's economic action plan, version 2013. will pay it later. That is just cash management. [Translation] [Translation] Hon. Bob Rae (Toronto Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I will give the minister another chance to explain to people why the government Mr. Jonathan Genest-Jourdain (Manicouagan, NDP): Mr. will be spending $200 million under budget 2013-14, when it spent Speaker, on the other side of the House, there is no political will to $1.7 billion last year. establish a respectful relationship with aboriginal peoples. The new minister's rhetoric does not compensate for the budget's silence on The minister must recognize that having less money in this year's aboriginal affairs. The Assembly of First Nations is holding a forum budget than in last year's is a problem. In our opinion, that is what is on treaties right now as a follow-up to the January 11 meeting. wrong with the government's plan. However, we still do not know which of the Conservatives is Hon. Denis Lebel (Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and responsible for following up. Communities, Minister of the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec, Minister of Intergovern- mental Affairs and President of the Queen's Privy Council for Who is responsible for following up on the commitments made at Canada, CPC): Mr. Speaker, the building Canada fund, which was the January 11 meeting, and what will be the final result? 15280 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Oral Questions ● (1450) Waters Protection Act website. They are preparing to do the same Mr. Greg Rickford (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister thing again. of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, for the It is time that the Conservatives stopped muzzling scientists who Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency and for do not support their policies. the Federal Economic Development Initiative for Northern Ontario, CPC): Mr. Speaker, our government's plan focuses on Will the minister commit to protecting and releasing all the jobs, growth and prosperity for everyone, including aboriginal documents resulting from the 25 years of research conducted by the peoples. Responsible resource development should include abori- round table on the environment and the economy? ginal peoples, especially in northern Canada. [English] That is why we are maintaining our shared priorities such as education and the allocation of new resources for skills training. Hon. (Minister of the Environment, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I think I followed my colleague through that rambling Unfortunately, the NDP is more interested in increasing the cost of question. living for Canadians living in northern areas with its carbon tax. Treating the forestry and mining industries like a disease and going As I just said, the national round table e-collection is being abroad— distributed to over 20 libraries, including university libraries, right across the country. At the same time, all round table web holdings The Speaker: Order. are quite appropriately being archived on the Library and Archives The hon. member for Beauharnois—Salaberry. Canada website. *** I am pleased to see this body of work preserved and available, as it should be, through university libraries. THE ENVIRONMENT Ms. Anne Minh-Thu Quach (Beauharnois—Salaberry, NDP): *** Mr. Speaker, even with a new Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and JUSTICE Northern Development, we are not seeing any meaningful results. Mr. Phil McColeman (Brant, CPC): Mr. Speaker, Canadians are Muzzling scientists, refusing to combat climate change and doing concerned about crime. away with the round table on the environment and the economy were not enough for the Conservatives. Now, they want to attack the two The Ontario Superior Court today released a decision in the matter decades of work done by this independent research group and the of R. v. Kachkar. Mr. Kachkar was found not criminally responsible findings it made. by the court. Will the minister get rid of all the environmental policy Could the Minister of Justice please provide the government's recommendations that he does not like before putting this research position on cases where individuals are found not criminally on the Internet or will he respect the integrity of this research? responsible? [English] Hon. (Minister of Justice and Attorney Hon. Peter Kent (Minister of the Environment, CPC): Mr. General of Canada, CPC): Mr. Speaker, while we do not comment Speaker, my colleague has completely mis-characterized reality. In on specific cases, I can say the government is taking action with fact, the national round table's entire e-collection has been regard to accused individuals found not criminally responsible. The distributed to over 20 libraries, including university libraries, across not criminally responsible reform act would ensure that the the country. As well, all national round table web holdings will be protection of the public is paramount, create a new designation for archived on the Library and Archives Canada website. As well, all high-risk individuals, and ensure that victims have a greater voice in official NRTEE publications have been uploaded, in both official Canada's justice system. This is in addition to the 30 measures we languages, onto three online virtual libraries. have already passed to keep our streets and communities safe. Our government is proud of our capacity to protect both the Canadians can rest assured that this government will continue to environment and the economy. stand up for the victims of crime. [Translation] *** Mr. François Choquette (Drummond, NDP): Mr. Speaker, we [Translation] know that the only time the Conservatives talk about the environment is in television ads. REGIONAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT It should come as no surprise that Canadians no longer have any Mr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP): Mr. Speaker, there are confidence in this Conservative government. three unmistakeable landmarks no matter where you go in Quebec: a church, a “caisse pop” and a post office. The Conservatives have a tendency to make compromising information disappear. Let us not forget about the sudden We are not going to talk about churches because they are not a disappearance of the word “environment” from the Navigable political issue. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15281

Oral Questions However, in the 2013 budget, the Conservatives are directly Canada, CPC): Mr. Speaker, it is hard for the NDP when we talk attacking caisses populaires—credit unions—and, since 2012, the about the economy. Every time a difficult decision has to be made, it post offices have been paying for the Conservatives' relentlessness. becomes ideological. Everything is always about ideology to them. Sixteen post offices in Quebec have closed in less than a year, and In my opinion, an operating deficit of $253 million is not an the epidemic is still raging. ideological matter but an economic one. What will be left of our regions once the Conservatives have We are going to let the people at Canada Post make the decisions finished their dirty work? and ensure the sustainability of postal service across this country for ● (1455) a long time to come. Hon. Denis Lebel (Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and [English] Communities, Minister of the Economic Development Agency of Mr. Brian Masse (Windsor West, NDP): Mr. Speaker, crown Canada for the Regions of Quebec, Minister of Intergovern- corporations under the government are in a stranglehold. They are mental Affairs and President of the Queen's Privy Council for not at arm's-length from the government. Canada, CPC): Mr. Speaker, as my colleague knows quite well, the Canada Post Corporation is an organization that operates according After serving the community for 100 years, Canada Post to the rules set by its board of directors. announced the closing of the Sandwich Towne post office, a It is important to remind these people that the Canada Post disrespectful move, considering the community has offered to work Corporation is having to deal with a 20% drop in its market in recent with Canada Post to find a solution, but to the tin ear of the Ottawa years. In 2011, it had an operating deficit of $253 million. Conservatives, the community's concerns simply go unnoticed. They would resolve this by devising a $21 billion carbon tax. As Why is the government so callous about these service cuts? Why for us, we will let that organization make courageous decisions to is it ignoring students, seniors and persons with disabilities being secure the future of the postal service across Canada. hurt by these reckless Conservative cuts? Hon. Denis Lebel (Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and *** Communities, Minister of the Economic Development Agency of CANADA POST Canada for the Regions of Quebec, Minister of Intergovern- Ms. Paulina Ayala (Honoré-Mercier, NDP): Mr. Speaker, mental Affairs and President of the Queen's Privy Council for people in my riding are writing to me to ask why the Conservative Canada, CPC): Mr. Speaker, he can say what he wants, but as a government is shutting down their post office. Since the beginning crown corporation, Canada Post operates at arm's-length from the of last year, 30 post offices across Canada have been shut down, federal government. As such, Canada Post has assured me that all including 16 in Quebec and no fewer than 10 in Montreal. permanent employees will continue to have jobs and will continue to work for the Canadian population, but as I said, they have to face We know that the Prime Minister prefers FedEx, but why does he very difficult times, because their market has decreased by 20% want to prevent people from using Canada Post's countrywide since 2007, and that is not an easy situation for them. service? Hon. Denis Lebel (Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and *** Communities, Minister of the Economic Development Agency of ELECTIONS CANADA Canada for the Regions of Quebec, Minister of Intergovern- mental Affairs and President of the Queen's Privy Council for Hon. Bob Rae (Toronto Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I wonder if Canada, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I think that it is important to tell the the Prime Minister has considered again the question of the power of hon. member exactly what the situation is with the postal service and Elections Canada with respect to the issue of , the Canada Post, a crown corporation that operates independently and former member of the Conservative Party. I would like to ask the makes difficult business decisions. Prime Minister whether he would now reconsider the wisdom of calling a byelection just at the time when Mr. Penashue's I said earlier that Canada Post had an operating deficit of investigation under Elections Canada is still going on. $253 billion in 2011. If my colleague would like, I can send her the Mr. (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister figures by Purolator. of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities and for the Mr. Réjean Genest (Shefford, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the Federal Economic Development Agency for Southern Ontario, Conservative government is quietly privatizing Canada Post. CPC): Mr. Speaker, I too would like to add my thanks to that Canadians want to keep their post offices because this is a local member as he poses yet another final question as leader of the service that is important to them and their businesses. Closing post Liberal Party. offices for ideological reasons is hurting our regions' economy. On the question at hand, we have in Labrador a great leader in Can the minister tell us how many more Canada Post offices the Peter Penashue, who has delivered jobs for his constituents through Conservatives are going to close? the Lower Churchill project. He has stood firm in his support of the Hon. Denis Lebel (Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and abolition of the long gun registry and has defended the polar bear Communities, Minister of the Economic Development Agency of hunt and the seal hunt. He is a great defender of rural rights and rural Canada for the Regions of Quebec, Minister of Intergovern- values, and we are confident that he will be returned to this place to mental Affairs and President of the Queen's Privy Council for continue his good work. 15282 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Oral Questions ● (1500) Why are Conservatives hurting our businesses and making Canadians pay $330 million more on thousands of everyday items? JUSTICE Hon. (Minister of International Trade and Minister Hon. Bob Rae (Toronto Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, President for the Asia-Pacific Gateway, CPC): Mr. Speaker, it is a surprise to Clinton, President Obama and Prime Minister David Cameron have hear that question coming from the NDP. In fact, this is the first all indicated that over the last few years, they have had a change of question the official critic for trade from the NDP has asked me heart on the subject of gay marriage. In light of the fact that there are about trade in four months. today thousands of Canadian couples who have celebrated their relationships, and those relationships have been recognized by the When they claim that they are in favour— provinces, by the states and by civil authorities, could the Prime Minister tell us whether he, in fact, has had a similar change of heart Some hon. members: Oh, oh! to his colleagues around the western world? The Speaker: Order. Order. The hon. Minister of International Hon. Rob Nicholson (Minister of Justice and Attorney Trade still has the floor. General of Canada, CPC): Mr. Speaker, as members know, there is legislation before Parliament right now that deals with this issue. Hon. Ed Fast: Mr. Speaker, when the NDP talks about fair trade, it actually means no trade at all. I would hope that the members of the opposition would get on board with us and get that thing passed through Parliament. That is Let us think about this: the member for British Columbia Southern what we all should be doing in that area. Interior recently said that trade agreements threaten the very existence of our nation. *** [Translation] What credibility— INTERNATIONAL TRADE Some hon. members: Oh, oh! Ms. Hélène Laverdière (Laurier-Sainte-Marie, NDP): Mr. The Speaker: The hon. member for Prince Albert. Speaker, when the Minister of Finance went to South Korea to avoid talking about his budget, he claimed that Canada was close to *** signing a free trade agreement with that country. However, negotiations have been deteriorating for years and are far from over. ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS With the Conservatives at the helm, Canada's trade surplus has Mr. Randy Hoback (Prince Albert, CPC): Mr. Speaker, for turned into a $67 billion annual trade deficit. many years we have heard first nations say they want and deserve greater transparency and accountability for their chiefs and council. When will the Conservatives admit that they have failed to put in place a trade policy that benefits Canadians? Our government introduced the first nations financial transparency [English] act so that first nations members can have access to basic financial information about their elected chiefs and council, access that all Hon. Ed Fast (Minister of International Trade, CPC): Mr. other Canadians expect and deserve. Shockingly, the NDP and Speaker, it is pretty rich for NDP members to stand in this House and Liberals opposed this bill. claim that they support trade. Can the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Aboriginal They send their leader down to the United States, where he Affairs and Northern Development please update the House on the ignores all of the science on the Keystone XL project, undermines status of this bill? our efforts to grow our economy and badmouths Canadians and our economy. In fact, he asks Americans not to do business with Canada. Mr. Greg Rickford (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, for the The NDP is not only anti-trade and not only anti-investment; now Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency and for it is anti-science and anti-common sense. It has no credibility on the Federal Economic Development Initiative for Northern trade. Ontario, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I would be happy to. I want to thank Mr. Don Davies (Vancouver Kingsway, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the member for Prince Albert for his question. what is hurting the Canadian economy is Conservative incompetence on trade. Despite opposition from the NDP and Liberals, I am pleased to report that we have delivered on our promise to aboriginal The Conservatives' ideological approach to trade is now becoming communities and their members from across Canada. totally incoherent. The Conservatives say they want to break down barriers, but now announce in the budget that they are hiking tariffs The first nations financial transparency act will receive royal on 72 countries, including Gabon and Botswana, which are hardly assent today. Passage of this legislation into law represents a developed nations. milestone for first nations community members and leaders who have been calling for this kind of change. We are proud of the work Canadians need a consistent trade policy, one that actually delivers that has been done with first nations to ensure that this legislation good deals for Canada and creates value-added jobs in this country. will benefit them now and for generations to come. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15283

Oral Questions ● (1505) taxpayers. It also falls under clear-cut audits that are currently under [Translation] way to make sure that all of that money was spent properly. We look forward to those jobs filling that building in the near future. CANADIAN HERITAGE Hon. Bob Rae (Toronto Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have a *** straightforward question for the government. Today, we are hearing rumours that the board of directors plans on changing the name of CBC/Radio-Canada. NATURAL RESOURCES Given the reputation of CBC/Radio-Canada, can the government Hon. (Yellowhead, CPC): Mr. Speaker, the oil tell us today if the name “CBC/Radio-Canada” will be kept for the sands are an absolutely incredibly important resource that creates years to come? thousands of jobs and growth right across this country. While the [English] NDP leader attacks the growth in this sector and actually calls it a disease, the Conservative government keeps fighting for jobs in the Hon. James Moore (Minister of Canadian Heritage and building trades, jobs in manufacturing and jobs in the local economy. Official Languages, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I really hope that is not his last question. My question is to the Minister of Natural Resources. Can he No, the name of CBC/Radio-Canada is not going to change. The update the House on the latest development in our government's name is actually established in the Broadcasting Act, section 35, and efforts to create jobs and grow the economy in Canada's resource we have no plans to change it. sector? *** Hon. (Minister of Natural Resources, CPC): Mr. [Translation] Speaker, yesterday the U.S. defence department released a study that AGRICULTURE AND AGRI-FOOD concluded that the oil sands would have no significant effect on the environment. This is yet more independent evidence that Keystone is Mr. François Lapointe (Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska environmentally sound. Unfortunately, the NDP leader rejects the —Rivière-du-Loup, NDP): Mr. Speaker, in 2008, the member for science behind Keystone and instead flies to Washington to attack Lévis—Bellechasse came to Montmagny on behalf of the Minister Canadian jobs and our national interests. of Agriculture and Agri-Food—

Some hon. members: Oh, oh! On this side of the House, we support science, jobs and Canadian [English] prosperity. The Speaker: Order, please. There will be time in a few more minutes to carry on that part of the conversation. *** The hon. member for Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska— Rivière-du-Loup. THE ENVIRONMENT [Translation] Mr. Dennis Bevington (Western Arctic, NDP): Mr. Speaker, Mr. François Lapointe: Mr. Speaker, in 2008, the member for confidential documents on the Giant Mine cleanup demonstrate it Lévis—Bellechasse came to Montmagny on behalf of the Minister actually costs less to protect the environment than to just let polluters of Agriculture and Agri-Food to announce $3 million in financial off the hook. The Treasury Board now pegs the cost of cleanup of assistance for a company called PureCell Technologies Inc. the arsenic trioxide at double the government's previous claim, $903 million. The company has since changed its name to PurGenesis Technologies. The number of promised jobs has multiplied, yet the factory remains empty. Will the government admit it is wrong? Protecting the environ- ment protects the taxpayer as well. For $1 billion, surely we can find This program was supposed to help market products that were a better way to treat this poison other than freezing it underground. ready to be put on the shelves. Five years later, the product is not even in production. What is more, PurGenesis Technologies has Mr. Greg Rickford (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister received another business start-up loan. of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, for the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency and for Why did PurGenesis Technologies receive financial assistance for the Federal Economic Development Initiative for Northern a product that was not ready? What mechanisms are in place to Ontario, CPC): Mr. Speaker, it is clear that the need to clean up this ensure that these jobs we have heard so much about will be created? mine is urgent. That is why we have taken immediate action to [English] address some of the urgent needs, and we are working to ensure that Hon. (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food and a full remediation is put in place. We expect to receive the report Minister for the Canadian Wheat Board, CPC): Mr. Speaker, this from the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board is a repayable loan. The member opposite did allude to that. The very soon and we will continue to take the necessary steps to protect company is legally obligated to pay back every cent to Canadian the health and safety of workers in nearby communities. 15284 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Tributes [Translation] not that organized even when we were in government. That parliamentarian of the year award, amidst all our travails as the so- AIR CANADA called third party is a large and unique signal of the respect the Mrs. Maria Mourani (Ahuntsic, BQ): Mr. Speaker, after being member for Toronto Centre has earned across the partisan divide. brutally thrown out on the street—in violation of the Air Canada Public Participation Act—and after being forced to go before the As members can imagine, our national Liberal caucus meeting this courts to have their rights recognized, while Ottawa defended Air morning was filled with many emotions as we thanked our leader for Canada's untenable position, the former Aveos workers are now the the work that he has done over the past two years or so, years that victims of the federal government's dogged determination. were both difficult and crucial but not without a bit of humour. Like The government is demanding that they repay their employment Bette Midler, the MP for St. Paul's over there gushed this morning insurance benefits on the pretext that they received compensation that the leader has been the “wind beneath [her] wings”. However, from Air Canada eight months after the sudden closure of Aveos. the member for Cape Breton—Canso said that maybe someone just That is a betrayal. How shameful. passed a bit of gas. Will this government stop attacking workers? The leader himself addressed the caucus with some poetry. "You, ● (1510) the unwilling,” he said, “led by the all-knowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long [English] with so little, we now feel qualified to do anything with nothing”. Ms. (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development and to the Minister of He went on to say, “I know I have not answered all of your Labour, CPC): Mr. Speaker, we sympathize with those who have questions. The answers I have given only serve to raise big new lost their jobs through no fault of their own. EI is made available to problems. In some ways, I feel just as confused as ever, but I believe eligible individuals in a timely manner because of the amount of I am now confused on a higher plane and about more important time that it takes to finalize bankruptcy proceedings. Individuals are things”. It was indeed quite a caucus meeting. made aware that any severance that they receive in a bankruptcy process will be considered earnings and, therefore, could be As other parties in the House like to remind us, the Liberal Party deducted from their EI. has endured some difficult times since the election of May 2011, *** perilous times because survival was not guaranteed. More than anyone else, the member for Toronto Centre has given the Liberal HON. MEMBER FOR TORONTO CENTRE Party the opportunity to have a future. The Speaker: Pursuant to order made on Friday, March 22, the House will now proceed to tributes for the hon. member for Toronto [Translation] Centre. More than anyone, the hon. member for Toronto Centre has given I will recognize the hon. member for Wascana. the Liberal Party hope for the future. Hon. Ralph Goodale (Wascana, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, for the next ● (1515) few minutes the House will be focusing some attention on the hon. member for Toronto Centre. [English] [Translation] He was the right person in the right place at a critical time. With He certainly does not need our help to draw attention, but today, his deep well of experience, his storehouse of knowledge, his his last day in the House as leader of the Liberal Party, he deserves a understanding and judgment, the vast array of Canadians and tribute. international personalities whom he knows and who know him and [English] whose respect he has earned, his oratorical skills in both official languages, his spontaneity in question period, his easy interaction Amid all the eulogistic things that are likely to be said today, I with the media, the deep respect he shows for Parliament and the remind members at the outset that the MP for Toronto Centre is not institutions of our democracy, the consistent principles that guide his dead, neither will he be retiring anytime soon. He is just changing conduct when the cameras are rolling and equally when they are not, roles. his kindness and decency; these are characteristics that have shaped We are going to pay a tribute to him because, and I hate that word his leadership. “interim”, his leadership over the past 22 months has been anything but interim. It has been robust and unstinting, skilful and substantive, Far beyond the House, people struggling with issues such as and readily applauded by the media, the public, our caucus, the party mental illness, for example, people who have been marginalized by and indeed by his opponents in the House. life's circumstances, aboriginal peoples searching for new hope and respect, and many others, have seen in this Liberal leader a reason to In the middle of his job as leader, we named him Canada's believe in the potential and compassion that Canada can offer. parliamentarian of the year. When I say “we”, I mean all of us in this Perhaps more than any others, the member for Toronto Centre lives House together. His peers in all parties voted him number one. God by what Laurier would describe as “sunny ways”, that positive knows the Liberal Party could not have stacked that vote. We were instinct to see the glass always half full, not half empty. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15285

Tributes Yes, tough times come along in politics. One reaction is to get “You're making quite a name for yourself”, he said. “Let me give angry, to grow bitter, and if one does that, one will diminish and you some advice”. fade. The best lesson from the member for Toronto Centre is to always rise above the petty, look for the best in people, even one's If hon. members can believe this 35 years later, the member, who opponents, be fair and always try to build a more inclusive society was then known as the member for Broadview, replied, “I need all and a better country. the help I can get, sir”. [Translation] Dief gave him some advice. He said, “Some people will tell you to take your time, to sit back and wait your turn. My advice is don't take It was with that attitude that he motivated our caucus and our any nonsense from anybody”. party, kept us united and helped us to grow, while keeping us visible and relevant. Unfortunately, he followed Dief's advice and it was the old Progressive Conservative Party and the other parties that faced the [English] music. Perhaps his greatest ally in all this work is his spouse and partner, However, provincial politics called. These were the days of hard Arlene. A soul mate, helper, adviser, comforter, confidant and pillar campaigning. From October 1978 to November 1982, the hon. of strength, she and their daughters, Lisa, Judith and Eleanor, have member fought four elections. In the course of his long career he been absolutely indispensable to what has been achieved. Today we would fight seven more. In Ontario, he took a party with a deeply say “thank you” to all of them. ingrained opposition mentality and brought it to power. Many people were surprised at his evolution from protest to power and, by his We have a future to fight for and hope for another day because of own account, not least the member opposite. the member for Toronto Centre, and we are grateful. When his party was unable to grasp the difference between protest Hon. John Baird (Minister of Foreign Affairs, CPC): Mr. and power he wisely shifted to the right, not far enough, however, Speaker, I am very pleased to offer remarks on behalf of the Prime but he did shift to the right. There are at least two or three members Minister and my colleagues in the government caucus to pay tribute opposite who I wish he had brought to the right with him. Indeed, to the member for Toronto Centre as he steps down as leader of the there are not many politicians who could start a speech like he did Liberal Party. one night last fall. He started his speech, “My fellow red Tories, my fellow New Democrats, my fellow Liberals”. The member for Toronto Centre will not know this, but about 20 years ago, I was thinking about running for the Ontario legislature. In a more serious vein, today allows us the opportunity to pay There were two people who especially motivated me. One was Mike tribute to the hon. member's entire family. As he has often joked, he Harris and the other was the member opposite. Now I affectionately was born in a log embassy. However, what is no joke is the service to refer to him as my former premier and I can also say, certainly one of Canada performed by the hon. member's late and distinguished the more fiscally responsible premiers in my lifetime in my province. father, Saul. His obvious intellect, capacity to think on his feet and speak Saul Rae was part of Canada's delegation to the Quebec extemporaneously raised the level of debate in this place. The central conference back in 1943. In the pictures of Mackenzie King, Sir role he has played in debate each and every day in this place will be Winston Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt, taken in Quebec, we can greatly missed. While I often do not agree with the member opposite, see him there. The times have shown that the same spirit of public we call those days weekdays, I have come to respect him, to seek his service that made Saul Rae a valuable confidant of great men has counsel and to learn from his perspective. Therefore, it is a real passed in abundance to his children. It is a spirit that we all may honour for me to join in paying tribute to the member for Toronto celebrate today, regardless of party or faction. Centre. ● (1520) A fierce partisan, a skilled debater, he is one of those rare In paying tribute to the member opposite, I would be remiss is I members of the House who not only commands respect of both did not single out someone who deserves at least as much credit, if colleagues and opponents, but also of past generations of not more credit than he does. I am of course referring to his wife parliamentarians, as well as those now sitting. Arlene. We can see that he is always in a better mood when she is around. That is why we see her in the halls of this place so often. The With a long political career, dating back to 1978, the hon. member member opposite is truly blessed to have someone who has been so has served with such elder statesmen as , Allan J. supportive of all his time in public service. It is fitting to recognize MacEachen and Stanley Knowles. He served with them and no that the burden of public service is not borne only by those who hold doubt sparred with them, for as a parliamentarian, he was an ever- office, so we pay tribute to his wife and to his three daughters, armed opponent. Judith, Lisa and Eleanor. I must say that in part I blame that old lion of the Prairies, the I have been privileged in my dealings with the member for Right Hon. John George Diefenbaker. The member for Toronto Toronto Centre. While the hon. member and I have had our Centre served with Diefenbaker and he will no doubt recall this differences of opinion in the House, as one would expect, I have conversation. Shortly after his first election to the House, Mr. found him at the same time to be forthright and insightful on the Diefenbaker, already impressed, asked to see him. occasions when I have sought his private views. 15286 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Tributes Upon this last matter, I am utterly convinced. One could argue We too have differed from time to time on various issues. I will with the hon. member for Toronto Centre, one could disagree with not highlight any of those, only to say that we have shared a him, but one could, however, never question his love for Canada, for common cause and a common purpose in our respect for this place, it is deep, profound and true. our further commitment to the country and our love of its people. Mr. Nathan Cullen (Skeena—Bulkley Valley, NDP): Mr. [Translation] Speaker, I would first echo the comments from my colleagues, both the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the member for Wascana. They Mr. Louis Plamondon (Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, were eloquent and caring in their tribute to my friend from Toronto BQ): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to join my colleagues in paying Centre. tribute to the leader of the Liberal Party, who is stepping down. I will quite intentionally keep my comments quite short for two very important reasons. On behalf of the official opposition, I heard One of the hon. member for Toronto Centre's best qualities is his instructions earlier today when we were preparing this tribute that great eloquence. He has not been quite eloquent enough to convert a each of the speakers would adopt the general approach of about two sovereignist like me into a federalist like him, but this perfect minutes. I suppose my friend from Toronto has inspired us all to say gentleman who sits in this House is actually a great orator with a more by demonstration of his own exercise in question period today. wonderful sense of humour.

I will try to restrict myself for the second important reason. I know His knowledge of the issues and his ability to speak about them the Liberal caucus has a dinner planned for this evening and if we make him a formidable opponent. With his great respect for the extend too far in our comments today, it will cut into that dinner. British parliamentary system and his political opponents, he has There is a rumour that the member for Beauséjour is actually paying always behaved in a dignified manner and been appreciated by for the dinner and I know my friend from Toronto will want to take everyone. every opportunity and every minute he can of the unique and unusual generosity from the member. He put his personal interests aside to serve those of his party and, ● (1525) in so doing, was able to deal with the many challenges that come [Translation] with acting as the interim leader. As the quiet strength behind his party, he was able to keep the ship afloat and his troops united during He is not retiring today. He is simply stepping down as leader of this long transition period. the Liberal Party. I will keep my memories for another day, when he truly retires, which I hope will be in the distant future. The hon. member for Toronto Centre dealt with the media on a daily basis, but we all know that he is in his element when facing the [English] media. It is fitting to talk about the member's ability to be both sharp and pointed in his attacks and criticisms of the government of the day, as When we return to the House after the Easter break, he will step he is open and gracious in his own self-deprecation and self- aside for a new leader. awareness. I recall a debate he and I had the pleasure of sharing in at the National Arts Centre not too long ago, where he commented to Today is therefore a good time to commend him for the the very large, gracious and happy crowd that he always wanted to outstanding job he has done in the House and to say that we hope be the leader of the Liberal Party in the worst way and he finally had to see him continue the good work he does for his constituents. that opportunity. He was able to show his grace and determination in sometimes difficult circumstances, using his ability and his obvious skills as an orator and a parliamentarian in the true sense of the word. Well done, Bob. Thank you for the great work you do every day to support our democracy. Thank you to the hon. member's family as I would personally like to extend my appreciation to him, through well for the help and support they have given him throughout his you, Mr. Speaker, for his consistent and determined effort to raise the career. issue of the plight of missing and murdered aboriginal women. I know this is an issue and a cause that affects all Canadians. As ● (1530) someone who comes from the northern parts of the country, to hear a Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP): Mr. Speaker, member from the urban capital of Canada talking about it with such I am very honoured to join my colleagues in paying tribute to my passion and such grace has been important and moving for me. colleague and friend, the member for Toronto Centre. Mr. Speaker, to Arlene and to the family, there have been sacrifices made on their behalf as well over the past number of [English] months. They will get a little more of him back and I am sure that is a great and celebratory thing. It is not often noted enough in this It is a great honour for me to serve in the House with the member place that we are often here only by the strength and efforts of our for Toronto Centre in his time as leader of the Liberal Party. The only families and our friends, who make us available to live the life of thing that distinguishes his term from that of others is he has escaped public service. I want to thank Arlene for what she has offered. attack ads. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15287

Tributes I took my seat here in June 2011, and I was very happy to find despite our differences of opinion and our profound philosophical seat 309. There were only 308 members in the House. Seat 309 has differences, we must respect each other. We must find a way to show its special characteristics. I knew it had recently been vacated by my some dignity here, even though we do not always agree and we do friend from Sackville—Eastern Shore. However, my friend from not share the same views. Toronto Centre said to me, “See that seat where you are now, that is where I started in 1978, 33 years ago”. He gave me great advice. He [English] said, “You play your cards right and 33 years from now, you can be where I am today”. I pictured myself at 90 as the leader of the third For the members, from time to time I have offended people. When party. one says as many things as I do, some of them will seem to be Our friend from Toronto Centre has changed parties over the inappropriate and sometimes even hurtful. For that I apologize and years. I once had great hopes he would become a Green. At the point express, perhaps on this occasion, the fact that we do not always that he was arrested for blockading the logging roads in Temagami, I reach the heights to which we like to ascribe ourselves. thought, “There stands a Green”. Then he had to go and blow it today with that whole Keystone XL joint sales job. The point is that I thank the Prime Minister for his words in question period today, no matter where we disagree, as other members around the House which I appreciated. have said, we can disagree without being disagreeable. It is simply not possible to end this tribute without mentioning I thank the minister for his very kind words. Knowing something Arlene Perly Rae, whom I love like a sister. The member for Toronto of his own political past in Ontario, I know how difficult this Centre I love like something else, but I do love him, as I do many transition is to being a generous, kind and thoughtful person. people in the House. His role, his contribution to Canada cannot be overstated; it can only be underestimated. We all pay tribute to a Hon. Ralph Goodale: He's not there yet. great Canadian today. Hon. Bob Rae (Toronto Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am not at a Hon. Bob Rae: He is getting there. I know how difficult it has loss for words, but I do want to thank members. I will not take long. been for him. All I can say is on this side we are all rooting for him I was very happy to hear the comments by my colleagues. as he goes through this change. My first reaction was, what took them all so long? However, my second reaction was to express thanks that I know cannot be For my colleague in the New Democratic Party, I fully understand expressed by my wife and family for the very kind comments my that for many New Democrats my even being here is something of a colleagues have said about them. difficulty for them. It is sort of like living next door to one's first husband for one's whole life. However, I appreciate very much the I cannot readily find the words to express the extent to which this thoughts that were expressed by my colleague from Skeena and his life of politics I have led for many years has only been possible ability to say kind words. I hope some of them are true, but I really because of the love, support and partnership that Arlene and I have do appreciate what has been said. had. Also, to have had it added to by three wonderful children, my mother, who I know is watching on television, my sister and brother has been very special and meaningful to me. It is not always possible I think all of us will understand that one develops a very special to find the words to express the thanks and gratitude for that love, relationship with the people who are here and I want to express my affection and support. deep thanks to all my colleagues.

I was also very pleased that my daughters were able to be here to I especially want to express my thanks to the member for hear some of what was said, because I do not think they realize what Wascana. We have been together in difficult battles. He has been my a great guy I really am. deputy leader. One can imagine how challenging that can be An hon. member: It's clear now. sometimes in terms of the stuff we have to try to do. I really do appreciate the kind and thoughtful way in which he has helped me to Hon. Bob Rae: It is clear now. I appreciate that. I think they all lead and helped me to provide a sense of direction for our party and know that now. our caucus. I am very appreciative of his words today, and I am very appreciative of his friendship and of his colleagueship. An hon. member: You get a transcript?

Hon. Bob Rae: The transcript is going to be put in gold. As has been said, I feel a bit like Tom Sawyer, who as we all will ● (1535) recall had an opportunity to attend his own funeral and in so doing [Translation] was astonished at the things that were being said about him and the emotions that were being shown. To all those who feel like they have I thank all of the members who spoke today. I want to say to the gone through some kind of deathbed conversion in saying such member who just spoke, the leader of the Bloc Québécois, that I very things about me, I simply want to say that I am not dead yet. I am much appreciated his comments. We do not agree on the still around. I am going to be here on April 15. I am going to be back fundamental question of the existence of the country—of Canada sitting somewhere in this place, although I am not quite sure where. I —but throughout my political career I have always tried to show that will be here to continue my work as a member of Parliament. 15288 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Routine Proceedings It continues to be a great honour to serve the people of Toronto 4th report of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, entitled Centre, and it continues to be a great honour to serve in this "Linguistic Duality During the 150th Anniversary Celebrations of Parliament. It is true, I have been a rising star now in five separate Canadian Confederation in 2017". decades, and the star is still rising. I can feel it. I want to express my (1545) deep thanks to members of the House for taking such valuable time ● out of the Conservative Party's political agenda to express their [English] thanks to me and to the work that I do. Pursuant to Standing Order 109 of the House of Commons, the Some hon. members: Hear, hear! committee requests that the government table a comprehensive *** response to this report. ● (1540) [Translation] ROYAL ASSENT Mr. Yvon Godin (Acadie—Bathurst, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I also The Speaker: Order, please. I have the honour to inform the have the honour to give a supplementary opinion on behalf of the House that a communication has been received as follows: New Democratic Party of Canada. Government House I invite Canadians to read the report on the 150th anniversary of Ottawa Canadian Confederation in 2017. We are completely opposed to the March 27th, 2013 government using the next Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality Mr. Speaker: in its recommendation to encourage the departments and groups I have the honour to inform you that the Honourable Marshall Rothstein, Puisne involved to refocus their projects and planning on preparations for Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada, in his capacity as Deputy of the Governor General, will proceed to the Senate Chamber today, the 27th day of March, 2013 at 4 the celebrations. We believe that this is detrimental to the p.m., for the purpose of giving royal assent to certain bills. development of minority language communities across the country. Yours sincerely, The purpose of the roadmap is to provide communities with the Stephen Wallace opportunity to develop their schools in some way. Secretary to the Governor General As for funding for the celebrations of the 150th anniversary of Canadian Confederation, it is the responsibility of the Government of Canada to provide the moneys required, and it should not use ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS moneys for the roadmap for that purpose.

[English] Therefore I invite Canadians to read our report. 41ST GENERAL ELECTION FINANCE Mr. James Rajotte (Edmonton—Leduc, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I The Speaker: I have the honour to lay upon the table a report of have the honour to present, in both official languages, the 16th report the Chief Electoral Officer entitled “Preventing Deceptive Commu- of the Standing Committee on Finance, in relation to Bill C-48, An nications With Electors - Recommendations from the Chief Electoral Act to amend the Income Tax Act, the Excise Tax Act, the Federal- Officer of Canada Following the 41st General Election”. Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act, the First Nations Goods and [Translation] Services Tax Act and related legislation. This report is deemed permanently referred to the Standing [English] Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. The committee has studied the bill and has decided to report the *** bill back to the House without amendments. [English] CANADIAN HERITAGE GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO PETITIONS Hon. (Fundy Royal, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I have the Mr. Tom Lukiwski (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of honour to present, in both official languages, the eighth report of the the Government in the House of Commons, CPC): Mr. Speaker, Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage in relation to its study on pursuant to Standing Order 36(8) I have the honour to table, in both the status of amateur coaching in Canada. official languages, the government's responses to five petitions. *** Pursuant to Standing Order 109 of the House of Commons, the committee requests that the government table a comprehensive [Translation] response to this report. COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE As well, Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official OFFICIAL LANGUAGES languages, the ninth report of the Standing Committee on Canadian Hon. Michael Chong (Wellington—Halton Hills, CPC): Mr. Heritage in relation to the main estimates for the fiscal year ending Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the March 31, 2014. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15289

Routine Proceedings CORRUPTION OF FOREIGN PUBLIC OFFICIALS ACT to provide the funding necessary to ensure the experimental lakes Hon. John Baird (Minister of Foreign Affairs, CPC) moved projects can continue. that Bill S-14, an act to amend the Corruption of Foreign Public Officials Act, be read the first time. ● (1550) (Motion agreed to and bill read the first time) *** SEX SELECTION

PETITIONS Mr. LaVar Payne (Medicine Hat, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I am SEX SELECTION pleased to present the fourth petition on behalf of my constituents, that the House condemn discrimination against females through sex Mr. Russ Hiebert (South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, selection pregnancy termination. They ask all members of Parlia- CPC): Mr. Speaker, I stand today to present petitions from hundreds ment to support Motion No. 408 and condemn sex selection. of constituents who are calling upon Parliament to condemn the worst form of discrimination against females and who are asking members of Parliament to support Motion No. 408. BANK REMITTANCE FEES SHARK FINNING Mr. Murray Rankin (Victoria, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased Ms. Linda Duncan (Edmonton—Strathcona, NDP): Mr. to present petitions in support of Bill C-380, a bill which would stop Speaker, I am pleased to table petitions from Canadians concerned the import of shark fins into Canada once and for all. This was about the overcharging of remissions of money from Canada. This is introduced by my colleague, the NDP deputy Fisheries and Oceans of great concern to people who are sending money overseas in critic. support of their families who are in distress, sometimes paying as much as 25% of the remittance. I would also like to acknowledge the hard work of Fin Free Victoria, a group that includes students from Glenlyon Northfolk School in my riding, which has gathered thousands of signatures. The petitioners are calling upon the government to follow forth with the undertakings to the G8 and to reduce these remission fees to The bill will come to a vote in the House of Commons this only 5% when remitting through banks. evening and I encourage all members of this House to vote in support of the bill. SEX SELECTION CANADA LABOUR CODE Mr. Murray Rankin (Victoria, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I am also Mr. Stephen Woodworth (Kitchener Centre, CPC): Mr. pleased to present petitions to this House in support of the bill Speaker, I have three petitions to present today, which total 150 introduced by my colleague from Verchères—Les Patriotes. Bill people from mainly the Kitchener—Waterloo area and about 16 C-464, an act to amend the Canada Labour Code and the people from British Columbia. Employment Insurance Act , would grant extended parental leave for multiple births or adoptions as a way of levelling the playing field for parents with multiple children. The petitioners ask that the House condemn discrimination against females occurring through sex-selective pregnancy termination. The Speaker: The hon. parliamentary secretary to the govern- They point out that 92% of Canadians believe that such a thing ment House leader is rising on a point of order. should be illegal. Millions of girls have been lost through this sex- Mr. Tom Lukiwski: Mr. Speaker, this is for the benefit of my selective procedure, creating a global gender imbalance. Also, I colleague opposite who is relatively new to this place and probably noticed when I went through the petitions that about 60% of the does not understand or does not know the rules and procedures. As petitioners are women. we know, members are certainly allowed to present petitions, but they are not allowed to endorse or support publicly the petitions that BLOOD DONATION they are presenting. I would mention that for the future.

EXPERIMENTAL LAKES AREA Ms. Megan Leslie (Halifax, NDP): Mr. Speaker, there is a Hon. Ralph Goodale (Wascana, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have the lifetime ban on blood donation from men who have sex with men. honour today to present four petitions, including hundreds of The petitioners are asking the government to reconsider that lifetime signatures from people all across the city of Regina and in the ban through Canadian Blood Services. They are asking the vicinity who are concerned about the budget reductions that would government to eliminate policy based on homophobia and outdated eliminate the experimental lakes project in northwestern Ontario. practices and to create equal deferral periods for high-risk sexual activity regardless of sexual orientation. The petitioners indicate that this has been an absolutely crucial site for the most vital freshwater research in North America, perhaps in the world. They think the cancellation and closure of this facility I am pleased to present this petition, and both the petitioners and I would be a retrograde step. The petitioners call upon the government look forward to the minister's response. 15290 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Routine Proceedings [Translation] ● (1555)

EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE ROAD SAFETY Ms. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I Ms. Olivia Chow (Trinity—Spadina, NDP): Mr. Speaker, spring am pleased to present to the House of Commons a petition that has arrived and there are a lot more cyclists, and I am pleased to opposes the provisions contained in the Act to implement certain present a petition on their behalf. provisions of the budget that deal with the power to define “suitable employment” and “reasonable and customary efforts to obtain The petitioners ask the Government of Canada to introduce a employment”, as well as the creation of the social security tribunal, regulation under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act that would make side because these provisions will impoverish entire economic sectors of guards for trucks mandatory in order to prevent cyclists, motorcy- our country and will not improve access to employment insurance or clists and pedestrians from being pulled under the wheels of these the matching of workers' skills with job vacancies. vehicles. It would be good for the environment, as it reduces fuel [English] usage, and also good for safety.

LYME DISEASE PARKS CANADA Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP): Mr. Speaker, Ms. Olivia Chow (Trinity—Spadina, NDP): Mr. Speaker, my I rise today to present two petitions. second petition is from people in the Ottawa area. The first petition is from residents of Caledon, Erin and Brampton, The petitioners point out that the Rideau Canada is a UNESCO Ontario, who are in support of my private member's Bill C-442, an world heritage site and a historical site. It represents a significant part act respecting a national Lyme disease strategy. of our Canadian heritage. They ask that Parks Canada return the hours of operation of this waterway to the 2011 service level. SHARK FINNING Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP): Mr. Speaker, SEX SELECTION the second petition is pertinent to a vote we will have this evening on Mr. Jeff Watson (Essex, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise Bill C-380 to ban the importation of shark fins. Upon discussing the and present a petition on behalf of dozens of Canadian citizens from matter with the hon. member for Oakville, he pointed out that there southwestern Ontario and Manitoba who in particular note that are now approximately 100 million sharks a year that are killed for millions of girls have been lost through sex-selective abortion, this practice of finning. creating a global gender imbalance and causing girls to be trafficked into prostitution. The petitioners say that Parliament needs to The petitioners in this case are from my own riding, from the condemn this worst form of discrimination against females, and they islands of Pender, Galiano and Salt Spring. call on members of Parliament to support Motion No. 408 to [Translation] condemn sex selection.

EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE *** Mrs. Anne-Marie Day (Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I am tabling a petition that opposes certain QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURN provisions of the 2012 budget that deal with employment insurance, Mr. Tom Lukiwski (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of including the definitions of “suitable employment” and “reasonable the Government in the House of Commons, CPC): Mr. Speaker, if efforts”, as well as the creation of the social security tribunal. Questions Nos. 1166 and 1169 could be made orders for return, these [English] returns would be tabled immediately.

BANK REMITTANCE FEES The Speaker: Is that agreed?

Mr. Peter Julian (Burnaby—New Westminster, NDP): Mr. Some hon. members: Agreed. Speaker, I am pleased to present a petition today from dozens of residents of the Ottawa area. These Canadians are very concerned [Text] about the excessive fees and gouging that is taking place when they are transferring money abroad. Many new Canadians live on low Question No. 1166—Hon. Scott Brison: incomes, and they are being gouged up to 25% of the amount they With regard to the internal services program activity listed in the Public Accounts are sending to loved ones and family members who live overseas. of Canada Volume II: (a) what was the total net expenditure on internal services for On their behalf, I would like to table this petition. the government for each year of 2009-2010, 2010-2011, and 2011-2012; (b) what was the total gross expenditure on internal services for the government for each year of 2009-2010, 2010-2011, and 2011-2012; (c) what was the breakdown of net They say it falls upon the government to bring in legislation that expenditures on internal services for each federal department and agency for each would limit the fees on remittances to 5% of funds, instead of the year of 2009-2010, 2010-2011, and 2011-2012; and (d) what was the breakdown of 25% and sometimes more that currently exists. gross expenditures on internal services for each federal department and agency for each year of 2009-2010, 2010-2011, and 2011-2012? I would like to thank the good volunteers of ACORN Canada who have been raising this issue for low-income Canadians. (Return tabled) March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15291

S. O. 52 Question No. 1169—Hon. Irwin Cotler: marine rescue sub-centre by the Canadian Coast Guard, a special With regard to C-54, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the National operating agency of Fisheries and Oceans Canada. Defence Act (mental disorder): (a) in developing this legislation, on what (i) studies, (ii) case law, (iii) doctrinal sources did the government rely; (b) what statistics does As of April 15, less than 19 days from now, the St. Lawrence the government track with respect to people found not criminally responsible (NCR) River estuary and the northern part of the Gulf of St. Lawrence, on account of mental disorder; (c) for each of the last ten years, broken down by which are currently served by the Quebec City marine rescue sub- province and territory and by type of offence, (i) how many people have been found centre, will become the responsibility of the Joint Rescue NCR, (ii) which people found NCR have been released without conditions, (iii) which people found NCR have been released with conditions, (iv) how long has each Coordination Centre Halifax. person found NCR spent in treatment prior to release, (v) which people found NCR and released have been convicted of a subsequent offence, (vi) what was the nature of The reason for the emergency debate is this. The government the subsequent offence, (vii) which people found NCR and released have been found announced the transfer last Friday at 5 p.m. From what we heard, the NCR of a subsequent offence, (viii) what was the nature of the subsequent offence; transfer was to take place in the fall. The Commissioner of Official (d) for each of the last ten years, what was the recidivism rate for all federal Languages investigated and, sometime around April 22, he was to offenders; (e) broken down by province and territory, (i) which treatment facilities accept people found NCR, (ii) which of these facilities are privately owned, (iii) what verify whether the recommendations he made to the government had is the capacity of each facility, (iv) how many people are currently housed in each been implemented. All of a sudden, we learn that the transfer will facility; (f) what analysis has the government performed to determine whether this take place on April 15. legislation will result in a need for increased capacity in these facilities; (g) what are the conclusions of this analysis; (h) what steps is the government taking to ensure The House of Commons will adjourn tomorrow until April 15. adequate capacity in these facilities; (i) what funds are currently designated for (i) the That is why an emergency debate must be held immediately. It is not construction of new facilities to house people found NCR, (ii) the expansion of existing such facilities; (j) what government programs exist to fund any such just a question of official languages or someone whose rights have facilities that are privately owned; (k) what funds have been allocated to any such been violated. We are talking about the rescue sub-centre put in place programs for each of the past ten years; (l) what steps is the government taking to for fishers, for people travelling on the St. Lawrence River. That is mitigate Charter litigation with respect to people found NCR who may be unable to something else. secure space in an appropriate facility; (m) has Bill C-54 been examined by the Department of Justice to ascertain consistency with the Charter; (n) which officials The rescue sub-centre was created 32 years ago for safety reasons performed the examination, (i) when was the examination initiated, (ii) when was the examination completed, (iii) what were the conclusions of this examination; (o) when and because of the language spoken in the region. This is important was the Minister of Justice presented with these conclusions; (p) was a report of because lives are at stake. That is why a press conference was held inconsistency prepared; (q) was a report of inconsistency presented to Parliament; today, attended by the media, people from Quebec and francophones and (r) has there been an assessment of the litigation risk relative to the enactment of from across Canada. The only bilingual rescue sub-centre in Canada this legislation and, if so, what are the conclusions of this assessment? is being closed down. (Return tabled) We do not want to leave any stone unturned, so that we do not [English] have to come back one day and say, “We told you so.” That would Mr. Tom Lukiwski: Mr. Speaker, I ask that the remaining be a disaster. questions be allowed to stand. I believe it is your responsibility, Mr. Speaker, to grant this The Speaker: Is that agreed? emergency debate. You have the power, pursuant to Standing Order 52(2). This request complies with the law and with our Standing Some hon. members: Agreed. Orders. *** Mr. Speaker, I do not think you want to be the one who refused such an important debate. People's lives are at stake here. That is MOTIONS FOR PAPERS what the experts are saying. We personally consulted people in Mr. Tom Lukiwski (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of Quebec City. We met with experts, and they all told us that this is a the Government in the House of Commons, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I ticking time bomb and a serious threat. ask that all notices of motions for the production of papers be allowed to stand. I trust that you will make the smart decision to grant this emergency debate so that we leave no stone unturned. If the The Speaker: Is that agreed? government decides to close the sub-centre, it will bear the Some hon. members: Agreed. responsibility. It will not be on us or on you. ● (1600) *** The Speaker: I would like to thank the member for Acadie— REQUEST FOR EMERGENCY DEBATE Bathurst for raising this question. SEARCH AND RESCUE I have no doubt that this is a very important issue to the hon. The Speaker: The Chair has notice of a request for an emergency member. However, I should point out that we have already had four debate from the hon. member for Acadie—Bathurst. days of debate on the budget, so we have had the opportunity to talk about many things that are the government's responsibility. Today, [Translation] we are still debating the government's budget policy in general. I Mr. Yvon Godin (Acadie—Bathurst, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I believe that the members will have the opportunity to speak to this wrote to you today to ask permission pursuant to Standing Order 52 issue today, as they have had the opportunity to do over the past few (2) to hold an emergency debate on the closure of the Quebec City days. 15292 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Speaker's Ruling For those reasons, I do not believe it is necessary to agree to the and vetting of draft government legislation by the Minister of Justice member's request. as evidenced by a number of legal challenges to legislation believed to be inconsistent with the charter and the Bill of Rights. *** [English] [English] PRIVILEGE The member contended that even though the matter is before the courts, the sub judice convention does not prevent the House from DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE—SPEAKER'S RULING considering this question of privilege, as it is in no way dependent on The Speaker: I am now prepared to rule on the question of the findings of the court, nor will the debate on the question of privilege raised on March 6, 2013 by the member for Winnipeg privilege interfere with the court in carrying out its duties. Centre regarding the Minister of Justice's statutory obligation to Acknowledging that questions of privilege must be raised at the examine government bills and regulations to determine whether they earliest opportunity, the member for Winnipeg Centre assured the are inconsistent with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms House that he brought this matter to the attention of the House as and the Canadian Bill of Rights. quickly as he could bring the research together, given the complexity of this question of privilege. I would like to thank the hon. member for Winnipeg Centre for having raised this matter, as well as the Minister of Justice and [Translation] Attorney General of Canada, the hon. Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, the hon. House Leader of the Official In response, the Minister of Justice insisted that the matter was not Opposition and the members for Saanich—Gulf Islands, Winnipeg raised at the first opportunity since the court action in question was Centre, Mount Royal and Gatineau for their comments. filed on December 14, 2012, leaving the member many opportunities to have raised this matter in the intervening months—as many other [Translation] members had done in both committees and in the House. Second, the In raising this question of privilege, the member for Winnipeg minister argued that the Chair has no jurisdiction over questions of Centre explained that, pursuant to certain statutory requirements, the law, which are for the courts alone to decide. Third, the minister Minister of Justice is required to examine all government bills and suggested that the sub judice convention dictates that since the regulations in order to determine whether they are actually matter is before the courts, the House should allow the courts to inconsistent with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Bill resolve the matter before undertaking any debate on the matter. of Rights. He cited section 3 of the Canadian Bill of Rights, which [English] states: ...the Minister of Justice shall…examine every regulation…and every Bill The Minister of Justice noted that the member for Winnipeg introduced in or presented to the House of Commons by a Minister of the Crown, Centre had failed to provide any evidence that the House and its in order to ascertain whether any of the provisions thereof are inconsistent with members were in any way impeded in carrying out their duties. The the purposes and provisions of this Part and he shall report any such inconsistency minister stated categorically that “this government has never to the House of Commons. introduced any legislation that I believe was inconsistent with the [English] Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms or the Canadian Bill of The hon. member then claimed that if the allegations contained in Rights”. an action filed in the Federal Court by Mr. Edgar Schmidt, a He went on to remind the House that the member for Winnipeg Department of Justice official, are proven to be true, the minister has Centre had acknowledged that he had “no evidence” to suggest that flouted these statutory requirements. He contends that the minister the minister provided deliberately inaccurate information to the manages the risk of inconsistency in a cavalier fashion, and he House about government bills. argues that by allowing legislation to be introduced in the House that has a possibility of being inconsistent with the Charter of Rights and [Translation] Freedoms or the Bill of Rights, the minister misleads Parliament, thus leaving members with no reliable assurance that proposed The Chair has listened attentively to members’ interventions on legislation is not in violation of the charter and the Bill of Rights. this matter and it seems to me that this question of privilege involves three key points: namely, the timeliness of the question of privilege; The member asked that the Chair find that the minister's approach the sub judice convention; and the Speaker’s role in determining had thus effectively impeded members in performing their duty to matters of law. exercise due diligence in considering government bills. I note that to do so, the Chair would first need to establish whether the Minister of [English] Justice had acted in accordance with his statutory obligations. Regarding timeliness, both the member for Winnipeg Centre and ● (1605) the opposition house leader explained that it was only after some [Translation] time-consuming initial research that the member felt compelled to raise the matter in the form of a question of privilege. That said, while the member for Winnipeg Centre went on to admit that there exists no evidence that the Minister of Justice Furthermore, I was interested in the statement of the member for deliberately, or even implicitly, gave the House inaccurate informa- Gatineau, who noted that this question of privilege was raised only tion, he claimed that there are serious deficiencies in the examination after efforts to consider the matter in committee had failed. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15293

Speaker's Ruling While I might come to a different conclusion if the question at [Translation] issue related directly to a specific incident in the House with regard to this particular question of privilege, I am satisfied with the Numerous previous Speakers’ decisions point to a very clear explanations offered and will not rule this question out of order practice for the Chair to follow in instances such as this. In a ruling purely on the basis of timeliness. given by Speaker Fraser, on April 9, 1991, which can be found at pages 19233 and 19234 of the House of Commons Debates, he said: The suggestion has also been made that the sub judice convention, in and of itself, prevents the consideration of this question of The Speaker has no role in interpreting matters of either a constitutional or legal privilege at this time. nature. House of Commons Procedure and Practice, second edition, at In a ruling given by Speaker Jerome, on June 19, 1978, which can page 627 states: be found at page 6525 of the House of Commons Debates, he The interpretation of this convention is left to the Speaker since no “rule” exists to addressed a complaint that the government of the day may have prevent Parliament from discussing a matter which is sub judice. acted illegally. He stated:

[Translation] The hon. Member also alleges the Government acted illegally in the manner in which postal rates have been increased. Hon. Members will be aware that I have a As Speaker, I must endeavour to find a balance between the right duty to decide questions of order, not of law, and furthermore, I understand that this of the House to debate a matter and the effect that this debate might issue is now before the courts. In my opinion, therefore, it is an issue to be settled by have. This is particularly important given that the purpose of the sub the courts, and the Chair should not intervene. judice convention is to ensure that judicial decisions can be made free of undue influence. While O’Brien and Bosc states on page 628, [English] in reference to a March 22, 1983, ruling by Speaker Sauvé, House of Commons Procedure and Practice, second edition, at …the sub judice convention has never stood in the way of the House considering a prima facie matter of privilege vital to the public interest or to the effective page 261, also provides valuable insight. It states: operation of the House and its Members. ...while Speakers must take the Constitution and statutes into account when preparing a ruling, numerous Speakers have explained that it is not up to the it also speaks of another aspect of this convention that is too Speaker to rule on the “constitutionality” or “legality” of measures before the critical to ignore when at page 100 it states: House. The sub judice convention is important in the conduct of business in the House. It protects the rights of interested parties before the courts, and preserves and maintains In a ruling on a similar matter, Speaker Milliken, on April 12, the separation and mutual respect between the legislature and the judiciary. The convention ensures that a balance is created between the need for a separate, 2005, at page 4953 of the Debates, did articulate the limited kinds of impartial judiciary and free speech. legal or constitutional matters the Chair could rule on. [English] He stated at that time: Strictly speaking, in the case before us, while the sub judice What they may decide is whether the terms of a bill are in compliance with a prior convention does not prevent debate on the matter, the fact remains resolution of this House, a ways and means motion, for example, or a royal that the heart of this question of privilege is still before the courts, recommendation in respect of a money bill, but beyond that, Speakers do not which have yet to make a finding. I believe that it would be prudent intervene in respect of the constitutionality or otherwise of provisions in the bills for the House to use caution in taking steps that could result in an introduced in this House. investigatory process that would, in many ways, run parallel to the [Translation] court proceedings, particularly given that the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada is already a party to the court More recently, I have also been called upon to make rulings which proceedings and would be a central figure in any consideration the effectively asked me to interpret the law. On October 24, 2011, at House might give this matter. page 2405 of the Debates, I stated:

Arguments over the timeliness of the intervention of the member …it is important to delineate clearly between interpreting legal provisions of for Winnipeg Centre and the extent of the restraints we might choose statutes—which is not within the purview of the Chair—and ensuring the to impose on ourselves because of the sub judice convention are soundness of the procedures and practices of the House when considering ancillary matters. It seems to me that the central element of this legislation—which, of course, is the role of the Chair. question of privilege asks the Speaker to determine if the [English] government is meeting its obligations under the law, as set out in section 3 of the Canadian Bill of Rights and section 4.1 of the Given the Chair's limited scope to consider legal matters, and Department of Justice Act and their relevant regulations. The based solely on what is within my purview to consider, I cannot member for Mount Royal distilled this issue down to its fundamental comment on the adequacy of the approach taken by the government element in stating: to fulfill its statutory obligations. I can therefore find no evidence What is rightly before this House, raised as a question of privilege, is whether that the member for Winnipeg Centre's privileges have been minister has satisfied himself of the constitutional compliance of legislation. breached and cannot see how this rises to a matter of contempt. This is the very matter the member for Winnipeg Centre has Accordingly, I cannot find a prima facie question of privilege. placed before me for my consideration in raising this question of privilege. I thank all members for their attention. 15294 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Privilege ROYAL ASSENT that his parliamentary privilege was affected in that on March 21, he was denied what was his expected and promised slot to deliver an S. ● (1625) O. 31, also known as a member's statement. The reason he states that [English] his promised slot was removed was that the topic “was not approved”. A message was delivered by the Usher of the Black Rod as follows: Mr. Speaker, the hon. Deputy of His Excellency the Governor General desires the I am troubled by this turn of events, and I and most members immediate attendance of this honourable House in the chamber of the honourable the believe that it is larger than what might have been the subject matter Senate. of that S. O. 31. I suggest that all members of the House should be troubled by the turn of events last Thursday. S. O. 31 reads as Accordingly the Speaker with the House went up to the Senate follows: chamber.

And being returned: A Member may be recognized, under the provisions of Standing Order 30(5), to The Speaker: I have the honour to inform the House that when make a statement for not more than one minute. The Speaker may order a Member to resume his or her seat if, in the opinion of the Speaker, improper use is made of this the House went up to the Senate chamber the hon. Deputy of His Standing Order. Excellency the Governor General was pleased to give, in Her Majesty's name, the royal assent to the following bills: Bill C-28, An Act to amend the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada Act— According to the rule, it is clear that the Speaker, and only the Chapter 1. Speaker, can order a member to resume his or her seat if the Bill C-370, An Act to amend the Canada National Parks Act (St. Lawrence member's statement is over one minute or is improper for some other Islands National Park of Canada)—Chapter 2. reason. Denying an S. O. 31, according to the words of the Standing Bill C-293, An Act to amend the Corrections and Conditional Release Act Order, is the exclusive prerogative of the Speaker. No other member (vexatious complainants)—Chapter 3. of the House has the authority, delegated or otherwise, to deny a Bill C-58, An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the private member the opportunity to make a member's statement. federal public administration for the financial year ending March 31, 2013—Chapter 4. Bill C-59, An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the federal public administration for the financial year ending March 31, 2014—Chapter When members' statements were first introduced in S. O. 31 in 5. 1983, then Speaker Sauvé stated on January 12, 1983, that this Bill C-53, An Act to assent to alterations in the law touching the Succession to the period was intended to provide members with an opportunity “to Throne—Chapter 6. voice serious issues of international, national or local concern”. Bill C-27, An Act to enhance the financial accountability and transparency of Although the S. O. 31 came into force in 1982, its genesis is in a rule First Nations—Chapter 7. that existed in the House from Confederation until approximately Bill C-55, An Act to amend the Criminal Code—Chapter 8. 1940. The practice was that members could seek unanimous consent of the House to move a motion without notice. Unanimous consent Pursuant to an order made on Friday, March 22, I wish to inform was almost always given and was so routinely given that the House the House that because of the statements made earlier today, the time had to eventually restrict it to matters of “urgent and pressing for government orders will be extended by 30 minutes. necessity”. [Translation]

It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House However, the matters of urgent and pressing necessity prerequisite that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are was so routinely ignored and so many members were rising, that as follows: the hon. member for Thunder Bay—Superior North, more formal rules were considered and adopted. Therefore in 1982, a Regional Economic Development; the hon. member for Haute- special procedure committee concluded that the former practice Gaspésie—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, Firearms Registry; the requiring unanimous consent was used for purposes for which it was hon. member for LaSalle—Émard, Aerospace Industry. never intended. They opted for a new Standing Order that would *** become Standing Order 31, which would enable members to make statements on current issues on a daily basis during the first 15 [English] minutes of the sitting. PRIVILEGE S. O. 31 Previous Speakers have been guided by a number of well-defined Mr. Brent Rathgeber (Edmonton—St. Albert, CPC): Mr. prohibitions. On January 17, 1983, when introducing statements by Speaker, it is really an honour for me to add a couple of comments in members, then Speaker Sauvé stated that members may speak on support of the member for Langley, who yesterday alleged that his any matter of concern, and not necessarily on urgent matters only. As parliamentary privilege had been breached. well, personal attacks are not permitted and congratulatory messages, recitations of poetry and frivolous matters are all out of Members will appreciate that this is a unique situation and an order. Marleau and Montpetit state at 363 that these guidelines are important point of privilege, and that it deals with the collective still in place today, although Speakers tend to turn a blind eye to the rights of all members of the House. The member for Langley alleges latter restrictions. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15295

The Budget Therefore, nowhere in the Standing Orders or in the enunciated Accordingly, I would ask that under the circumstances you find a guidelines do the members' statements need to be vetted by any other prima facie case of breach of privilege with respect to the member member or committee of members. Since 1983, additional restric- for Langley. tions have been placed on members' statements by the previous occupants of your chair. Subsequent Speakers have ordered members In a Parliament where the government and the opposition control to retake their seats when offensive language has been used, when a such a large portion of the parliamentary calendar and agenda, Senator has been attacked, when the actions of the Senate have been private members' bills, motions and S. O. 31s are the very few criticized, when a ruling of a court has been criticized and if the mechanisms that members have to bring forward matters of character of a judge has been attacked. importance for their constituents.

It is true that certain practices and customs have evolved to I would submit that if the House does not jealously protect the provide some order and predictability to the 15 minutes prior to rights of members to bring forward matters of concern to their question period. It is also true that it is written in the commentary: constituents and if it does not strictly enforce those rules, the roles of the private member, Parliament and ultimately democracy have all In according Members the opportunity to participate in this period, the Chair is guided by lists provided by the Whips of the various parties and attempts to been equally compromised. recognize those Members supporting the government and those Members in (1635) opposition on an equitable basis. ● The Speaker: I thank the hon. member for his further contribution ● (1630) on the question currently before the Chair. However, the Speaker retains discretion over the acceptability of each statement and has the authority to order a member to resume his Resuming debate, the hon. member for Prince Albert. or her seat if improper use is being made of these Standing Orders.

I have a couple of observations regarding the Chair being guided by lists provided by the whips of the various parties. GOVERNMENT ORDERS

First, it is the Speaker who has the discretion to deem a member's [English] statement unacceptable. Nothing in the rules allows this discretion to THE BUDGET be delegated, and there is no suggestion that the Speaker has delegated the authority to any other member of Parliament. FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF MINISTER OF FINANCE

Second, the wording in the usage is “guided by”, not “bound by”, The House resumed from March 26 consideration of the motion so I would submit it is permissive, not mandatory. Therefore, while that this House approve in general the budgetary policy of the the Speaker may be guided by lists provided by the various whips, government. the Speaker is in no way bound by these lists. Mr. Randy Hoback (Prince Albert, CPC): Mr. Speaker, it is great to be here today. It has been a busy afternoon in the House of I can see that these lists are certainly convenient for the Chair in Commons, so it is nice to get on with the debate and the country's providing an orderly introduction of the 15 members who will be business. presenting S. O. 31s on any given day, but nothing in the Standing Orders or in practice authorizes the whip to choose the 15 speakers. I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Nanaimo— Alberni. Moreover, it is submitted that convenience for the Chair through providing an orderly rotation so that when one member sits, the next The people of B.C. are just as excited about this budget as the one stands can violate neither the letter nor the spirit of the standing people of Saskatchewan, because there are so many good things in it order. for our constituents and Canadians right across Canada.

For these reasons, I support the member for Langley in his case Canada has been doing very well throughout the global crisis. The that his parliamentary privilege has been compromised by having to World Economic Forum ranked Canada's banking system as the submit his proposed member's statement for vetting. This is a safest in the world. We have a good, solid banking system, so our process that is not contemplated by the standing order and would constituents can take comfort in knowing that their deposits are safe appear to be completely contrary to the stated purpose of the and secure. Another thing to point out is that Canada has a AAA member's statement, which is to allow members to address the House credit rating, the best credit rating in the world. Canada has been for up to one minute on virtually any matter of international, doing very well in light of the financial crisis that has been going on national, provincial or local concern. around us.

We do not know if the rejected statement from the member for One of the other things we should talk about is job creation. While Langley would have fitted into one of those broad categories. Since other countries are losing jobs and suffering massive unemployment, he was not allowed to deliver it, we will never know. That is a we are creating new jobs here in Canada. We have created 950,000 violation of not only the member's right to deliver a statement but net new jobs since the start of the 2008 global crisis. That is amazing also of the right of this House to hear his statement. if we look at what is going on around the world. 15296 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

The Budget Saskatchewan is in a unique situation when it comes to jobs. The The nice thing about this fund is that it is fairly wide open with unemployment rate in Saskatchewan is sitting right at 3.7%. That is respect to utilization. Municipalities can use it for a variety of basically telling me that anybody who wants a job in Saskatchewan projects. As I said, it can be used for a water project or to build a can get a job. road or pave a street; those options are there. That is the nice thing about this fund. When I go back to my riding and talk to business owners about what they require in order to see more expansion and growth, the I was talking to a couple of reeves over the weekend, who were common theme is the lack of employees. They are looking for ways very excited because these funds are bankable and predictable. It is to get not just new employees but skilled employees. They need something they asked for, and we actually gave it to them. plumbers and electricians. They need people with their journeyman status. ● (1640)

Canada's economic action plan 2013 addresses those needs. The Then there is $14 billion for the new building Canada fund. One first action our government took was to bring in the Canada job thing we have to recognize is that Canada is an exporting nation, but grant. This program would allow a maximum benefit of up to we need to keep building infrastructure. We need to take advantage $5,000. The federal government will put in $5,000, the business will of the resources we have, but in order to do that, we have to build put in $5,000 and the provincial government will put in $5,000 for infrastructure. We have to build roads. We have to put in skills training. infrastructure to get to the mines. We have to put in infrastructure When I talk to people like some of the ag machinery dealerships in to get the product to market. These are things that will be addressed my riding, they tell me that they need more heavy-duty mechanics. by the $14 billion fund. Canadians recognize it as an important need They can embrace a program like this and take advantage of it. With and as something that will help our economy grow for a long time the free skills training, they can create heavy-duty mechanics out of a into the future. common employee. Those are the kinds of things that businesses require, and they are there in economic action plan 2013. We have the $1.25 billion renewal of the P3 Canada fund. The Province of Saskatchewan is embracing that fund. I know other Another thing people in Saskatchewan are looking for is a way to provinces have embraced it. Here is a practical way to get projects get their journeyman status more quickly. This has been addressed in built in a way that allows both the private sector and the public sector economic action plan 2013. We need more journeymen mechanics, to participate, and the benefit is for the taxpayer, without a doubt. plumbers and electricians in Saskatchewan. I am looking at remodelling a house, and I have to wait up to four months just to Of course we have $6 billion under the current infrastructure get a plumber. I have to wait up to three months for someone to put programs for the provinces, territories and municipalities from 2014- in a furnace. The skills shortage in my riding of Prince Albert is 15. extreme, and this action plan will hopefully help to alleviate some of those concerns. When we look at the new building Canada plan, there is over $53 billion over 10 years for infrastructure. That is a substantial amount I want to point out some things that are unique to my riding of of money, and it is probably the longest period of time that any Prince Albert. money has been consistently given to the provinces and munici- palities for infrastructure needs. It has never been done in the history Aboriginal youth come to Prince Alberta from northern ridings of Canada for this length of a period of time. looking for work. These are the people we need to get into the skills training program, and we have set up funding to do that. We are going to see more of that going forward. More aboriginal people are Saskatchewan is an agricultural province that has gone from going to be participating in the economy. When we talk to chiefs agriculture to mining. It has lots of resources, but it also has great with James Smith Cree Nation and Muskoday First Nation, this is world-class research. Genome Prairie is a good example, and it is something that they want. They want to participate in the economic nice to see core funding of $165 million going to the Genome boom going on in Saskatchewan, and this plan will allow their band projects that will be spread across Canada. That is groundbreaking members to do that. This is going to be great for Canada as a whole. research from which we will see benefits for years and years to come, and I am happy to see it in the budget. Another thing in the budget is the new building Canada plan. When I talk to my mayors, councillors and reeves, they tell me they We are also supporting and helping businesses to invest in want to see some sort of bankable method of payment from the innovation, thus making them more competitive and creating more federal government. The community improvement fund is a high-paying jobs here in Canada. consistent fund of $32.2 billion over 10 years. Municipalities will be receiving funds they can bank on. They can use the money for a Those are the items in the budget that will provide long-term variety of different projects. They can use it for water or sewer, as growth and prosperity, not just for members sitting here but for our may be done up in Nipawin, or they may want to use it for road kids and our grandkids. construction in Kinistino. These are indexed funds that they can count on going into their coffers year after year. They are bankable We cannot forget families. The family structure is such an and predictable, so municipalities can budget around them and plan important structure. We have to look at the variety of ways we can on them and use them according to their needs. help families. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15297

The Budget One of the things in the budget that is really great and unique is years many of those 100 first nations will still have to wait for safe enhanced tax relief for families that are adopting children or those drinking water for their families? using home care services. That is important. That is actually something that families and taxpayers can use. They can look at it Mr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for her and say they have a government that appreciates their needs and speech. It is unfortunate that she would not vote for what was in the requirements. It is in the budget, so I cannot see how members budget to actually provide the GST tax dollars to the municipalities. would ever vote against something like that. If I look at the NDP record, when it came to putting this in place, the members actually voted against it. I am a hockey player, and many of us have hockey kids. If parents can get baby clothes tariff-free and get cheaper, tariff-free hockey equipment, that again is supporting the family structure and is very When it comes to aboriginal communities and safe drinking water, positive. I think we all agree that it needs to be improved upon. Unfortunately, I cannot control what was done before me. I cannot control what the We have $1.9 billion over five years going for homelessness and Liberal government did. However, we are making strides to make it housing. The $1.9 billion is a substantial amount going into better. We are working with the aboriginal communities. We are something that is drastically needed. making it better and stronger. We recognize that there are needs for improvements, and we are taking steps to address those needs. I wish I had a lot more time, because I could go on for 10, 15, 20 or 30 minutes, but I am going to speed up on some of the things I also see happening here that are important to highlight. Mr. (Westmount—Ville-Marie, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I notice that my hon. colleague talked about the importance Last year I did the Nijmegen march. I went to Groesbeek of infrastructure, and I agree with him. In fact, it was Paul Martin Cemetery in Holland. Not a blade of grass was out of place. Every who started to take money from the excise tax on gasoline to devote tombstone was correct. The respect the people from the Netherlands to infrastructure, which was a good thing. give to our soldiers is amazing. With the increase and doubling of the funeral service reimbursement, we can do that here in Canada for our Why is it that we are going to have to wait a couple of more years? veterans also. That is very important. Taking it from $3,600 to If infrastructure is so pressing, why is the amount of money put $7,300 is something that our vets deserve, and it is nice to see it in toward it so light for the next couple of years? This reminds me of the budget. when the Conservative government, in 2011, during the last election, In closing, I would highlight something that is very important to promised that it was going to double the tax-free savings allowance me because I come from Saskatchewan. It is the fact that we are from $5,000 to $10,000 once the budget was balanced, some time in going to get to a balanced budget. What other country in the world is the future. Conservatives did the same thing with income splitting in going to talk about getting to a balanced budget after going through a families for income tax purposes. Once again, that was going to be global recession since 2008? In 2015-16, we are going to have a done after the budget was balanced. balanced budget. If everything is so urgent, why is it that on infrastructure, the In Saskatchewan we have had a balanced budget. The premier has amount of money for the next two years is so little? done a great job in making sure spending is kept under control— ● (1645) ● (1650) Hon. John Baird: He's a good premier. Mr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Speaker, let us review what we are Mr. Randy Hoback: I thank the Minister of Foreign Affairs. He doing in the new building Canada plan. actually is a good premier, because he has balanced his books and has put a priority on where the money should be spent. If we look at the growth in the province of Saskatchewan, we see it is a province We have $32.2 billion over 10 years for the community that is growing fast. Again I will repeat that the unemployment rate improvement fund. It consists of an indexed gas tax fund and is 3.5%. If we could do that here federally, we can just think of what incremental GST rebates for municipalities to build roads, public we could do and what the response would be across the country. transit, recreational facilities and other community infrastructure. We Ms. Linda Duncan (Edmonton—Strathcona, NDP): Mr. have $14 billion in the new building Canada fund. We have $1.25 Speaker, I listened with great attention to the member's speech. billion in the renewal of the P3 Canada project fund. There is $6 The member spoke of the government's increase in the gas tax and billion under current infrastructure programs for provinces, terri- indexing, as requested for quite some time by the NDP. We tories and municipalities in 2014-15. That is a substantial amount of appreciate that Conservatives finally listened to that, as requested by money going toward building infrastructure. It is amazing, because the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. this was not done in a lot of previous governments. However, he also spoke about the priority being to build Mr. Ben Lobb (Huron—Bruce, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I always infrastructure for Canadian exports. I wonder if the member could enjoy hearing the revisionist history provided by the NDP and the speak to the years of waiting by more than 100 aboriginal Liberal Party, which voted against the largest investment in communities for access to safe drinking water. Given the dollars infrastructure in the history of this country with the stimulus allocated in the budget, could the member speak to how many more program we brought in a number of years ago. 15298 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

The Budget In Huron—Bruce we have had great success with infrastructure The evidence is that Canada's economy has expanded for six investments. The municipalities in my riding are now planning for consecutive quarters. Canada's unemployment rate is well below that the future. They are talking to architects and members of the of the United States, the strongest showing in more than three community to come up with new ideas on what their priorities are, so decades. The World Economic Forum has ranked Canada's banking I think this is well timed. and monetary system the most stable in the world for the fifth consecutive year. Canada's debt-to-GDP ratio is the lowest in the G7 I would ask the member for Prince Albert how the Canada job nations by far, at about, if I have the correct figures, 35.8%. The next grant program is going to work for him, his community and his closest would be Germany, at 58.4%.The average in the G7 is riding. I think that is a program that will help keep their economy in 80.4%. Our net debt-to-GDP ratio is the lowest of the G7, by far, and high gear. is the envy of most other nations. Finally, all the major rating Mr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his agencies—Fitch, Moody's, Standard and Poor's—confirm our solid excellent question, because it is very true. AAA financial rating. All members of the Conservative government did pre-budget consultations. When I did, I talked with the business community. One thing they wanted and required was more skilled workers. They asked for assistance in getting an unskilled worker to become a In budget 2013, our commitment is to continue to pursue jobs, skilled worker. This program is one way to do that. It would provide employment and economic prosperity. On the job front, the Canada financial assistance for both the employee and the employer to get job grant is up to $15,000 per person. It is $5,000 federally, matched the worker to that next level to get a higher-paid skilled job that will with provincial and territorial partners and with the employer. That is take him or her through to retirement. to match the unemployed and the underemployed with high-demand jobs in our country. It is striking that in the past year, some 250,000 Mr. James Lunney (Nanaimo—Alberni, CPC): Mr. Speaker, it job opportunities were not filled because of a lack of skilled labour is a real pleasure to enter the debate on budget 2013, our economic in the right place at the right time. That is a real drag on our action plan. economy. It is a missed opportunity for unemployed and under- Before I begin, I would like to congratulate the member for Prince employed people, because they lack the skills training. This budget Albert for his excellent speech. Also, since a few moments ago has very targeted initiatives to create opportunities for Canadians to members paid tribute to the outgoing leader of the Liberal Party, I get the skills they need to engage in high-demand jobs. This program would like to acknowledge the member for Toronto Centre for his is expected to benefit some 130,000 Canadians. tremendous contributions in the House and for his affable ways. He is a great retail politician. I think we all give him credit for that.

Speaking to this issue, I want to back up and provide some ● (1655) background. Budget 2013, of course, builds on the measures in the previous two budgets. We have to reflect on what happened in 2008, when we were hammered by an economic tsunami: a global economic crisis, une crise mondiale, as some would call it, beginning with the subprime mortgage meltdown and the economic The budget is focused squarely on creating jobs, growth and collapse in the United States. The government was compelled to economic prosperity. In broad terms, the EAP 2013 would have come up with a strategy to respond quickly to provide unprecedented numerous programs to create jobs. It would renew the building economic stimulus and support for displaced workers and unem- Canada fund and would lay out the largest infrastructure funding ployed and underemployed Canadians and to stabilize our economic program in Canadian history, at about $53 billion over 10 years. It institutions. The plan worked. This economic action plan is would provide measures to promote our competitiveness, science following up on those measures. They were the right measures for and technology research, genome research, and innovation, through the right time in a troubled period. the Canada Foundation for Innovation, with some $225 million. That would benefit our university communities and our research Since the peak of the recession, in July 2009, these measures have communities. created more than 950,000 net new jobs, and 90% of those are private sector jobs. Canada was late, shall I say, later than our economic partners, going into the recession, and we were the first, as predicted, to come out of the recession. For forestry there would be some $92 million for innovation in Let me remind members that before the economic tsunami hit us forestry. That would be very important for the coastal forest industry in 2008, our Conservative government had paid down some $39 in British Columbia. billion on our national debt. That was important. It was a wise and responsible decision. It prepositioned us to absorb the body slam, if I can mix my metaphors, of an economic tsunami, but it prepositioned us to take that better than many nations did. The outcome of our economic action plan has put Canada in the enviable position of This budget would keep us on course for a balanced budget by doing much better than most developed western economies. 2015-2016, with diminishing deficits year by year. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15299

The Budget There would be opportunities for apprentices. The budget would I would be remiss if I did not draw attention to the Pacific Salmon create the opportunity for apprentices to get involved in government- Foundation getting the $6 Pacific salmon stamp. That is all going funded projects. For example, we would put some $258 million per back into community projects for the salmon enhancement project, year into affordable housing, and there would be incentives to “bringing them back, stream by stream”, working with local encourage the hiring of apprentices so that they could advance their volunteers. The PSF has tremendous local support. I go to skill level through the journeyman level and participate in meeting fundraisers for it every year. This would give it nearly $1 million the need for those skilled trades. There would be measures to match more in funding for those great projects in my community. graduates with job experience, with some $70 million for internship programs. ● (1700) There would also be training programs for aboriginal students on reserve and for post-secondary education. AFN National Chief [Translation] Shawn Atleo has laid out an ambitious goal for education for first nations students. One of his targets is education and economic Ms. Hélène LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard, NDP): Mr. Speaker, opportunities. We want to support him in helping first nations young listening to this speech is a little like reading a Sears catalogue; this people gain the skills to participate in the economy of tomorrow. It is item costs this much and that item costs that much. However, I do the key to a better future. Some $240 million would be set aside to not see a coherent plan for infrastructure. It seems to me that a lot of help first nations youth in B.C. and across Canada access the skills opportunities are being missed here. There are no priorities. The and training they need to participate in large economic projects, such government is doing a little of this and a little of that. as those in the resource sector, that in many cases are happening right in their own neighbourhoods. There are no priorities in this so-called plan. Moreover, this plan The commitment to long-term, stable infrastructure is extremely should include a discussion with the provinces to see how we can important to our communities. Just in the last couple of months, we better invest our money in infrastructure of the future all across have had many announcements in my own communities. Small Canada. communities have benefited from a program called the community infrastructure improvement fund. Under that program, there were projects like one in Oceanside Place in the Regional District of Does my colleague think there is a plan behind all these Nanaimo. Replacing all the lighting in that skating arena with high- infrastructure projects? Were priorities and objectives set? intensity lights to lower electrical use and emissions and provide better lighting at the same time. [English] Through the same program we had announcements in Parksville about replacing the community sports field and upgrades to improve Mr. James Lunney: Mr. Speaker, this is not the first accessibility. The Lions Club put in an outdoor adult gymnasium. infrastructure program we have rolled out for the provinces. In fact, Our Parksville Lions Club members are tremendous community in 2007 we had the largest infrastructure program in Canadian citizens. They have run a Lions venture park there for years for history, $33 billion over seven years, which is now being replaced by children, and now they are expanding outdoor exercise opportunities a $53-billion program over 10 years. for adults. I am very pleased that the infrastructure program is there to help them with that project. We are used to working with our partners, the provinces, the Out in Ucluelet, we had announcements for the Ucluelet Chamber territories and the municipalities, in determining their priorities. of Commerce through the community infrastructure fund. From Ottawa, we cannot tell people where the best investments are.

The gas tax fund is important to our communities. We have had The gas tax fund in British Columbia, by the way, is managed by major water upgrades across Vancouver Island. I note many the UBCM, the Union of British Columbia Municipalities. It announcements in the Nanaimo and Parksville areas and at collectively manages that fund. It gets together and talk about how Qualicum Beach, with major water storage enhancement, over the that money will be invested in communities across the area, the last number of years. municipalities appeal for those funds and they come up with great This budget would implement pooled registered pension plans. solutions that help in our area. Our colleague, the minister of state, was out in my riding and did a great job introducing that. B.C. brought in legislation to advance I will read a quote for the member's benefit. I think she would be pooled registered pension plans. very pleased to hear this: I note that one of the members opposite talked about the previous Liberal government starting a $1 billion gas tax fund. We appreciate The Canadian Urban Transit Association...today applauded the federal govern- giving the Liberals credit for that. We raised that to $2 billion, and ment's Building Canada Plan as a major step for planning and developing public transit in Canadian communities....We're really pleased to see this kind of now we would index it to help communities come up with the commitment for public transit infrastructure...Never before has a federal government infrastructure they need. invested so much in public transit...This budget provides a solid— 15300 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

The Budget ● (1705) My hat is off to the great folks at the Yukon College and the The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Order, please. Other Yukon government, who have worked in close partnership with us to members still need to pose questions. ensure this becomes a reality and to our government for recognizing those priorities of the territory by making this a specific budgetary Questions and comments, the hon. member for Westmount— priority. Ville-Marie. Mr. Marc Garneau (Westmount—Ville-Marie, Lib.): Mr. The other thing we heard clearly from our students who were Speaker, listening to my hon. colleague, everything is sweetness looking forward to opportunities in the workforce was that they and light and everything is exactly what all Canadians want. wanted to be able to take advantage of not just jobs in the unskilled portion of the labour market, but they wanted opportunities at the However, there is always a price to pay for these things. Since the semi-skilled, skilled and highly-skilled levels of the economy, which government came into power in 2006, by this summer it will have is booming in Yukon right now. added close $160 billion to the debt. The debt is something that, unfortunately, we cannot hide. It is not going to go away. It is going This is a direct opportunity to provide that for Yukon people. It is to have to be paid back at some point. not just Yukon people for Yukon jobs. It will be highly-skilled and semi-skilled jobs for Yukon people, keeping people right in our What does my hon. colleague think a government should do with territory to study for their career path and opportunity. This is respect to addressing the debt that will be passed on to our children wonderful news in the budget. I am looking forward to the future and and our grandchildren and that now exceeds $600 billion? seeing the development of Yukon College's Centre for Northern Mr. James Lunney: Mr. Speaker, as I started my remarks, I Innovation in Mining. The people in our communities will be able to talked about how we paid down $39 billion on the debt. Many of the take full advantage of this and they certainly look forward to it. members of the opposition have said that we squandered a surplus. We cannot pay down debt until we balance the budget. I would be remiss if I did not talk about another thing our government responded quite well to, and that was what Yukon What we are doing through the great work of the Minister of people wanted out of the exploration, mining and resource Finance and Minister of State for Finance and consulting with development boom of our territory. They wanted to ensure they Canadians across the country is moving toward balanced budgets by would see some rewards out of the exploration and resource maintaining the transfers to the people who depend upon them, the development that was going on. This past summer, our Prime provinces for the social programs they require, for health care, and Minister signed a historic resource revenue sharing agreement with they are being increased as promised. We are also maintaining the Yukon territory that would allow the people of Yukon to see transfers to individuals and we are moving toward a balanced budget greater benefits from resource extraction in the territory. Again, that on target for 2015 through these very prudent measures that are is another signal that our government understands the needs of the included in budget 2013. north. It understands the benefits to the people and the reasonable Mr. Ryan Leef (Yukon, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my requests that the great folks of the Yukon territory have when it time with our hard-working member from Calgary Centre. comes to labour market opportunities. I will start my remarks today with a great quote from our Prime We are certainly seeing that through the lower than national Minister when he was up in the Yukon territory this summer. He average unemployment rate and the vitality and growth of our said, “that great national dream—the development of northern communities. Right now, it is a wonderful part of our country to be resources—no longer sleeps. It is not down the road. It is happening in. Certainly all signs are indicating, as the Prime Minister put it, that now”. the north's time has come. Economic action plan 2013 and this year's budget is a direct reflection of those comments and sentiments and is our government's ● (1710) focus on the north as a priority. The other thing I want to highlight is we have maintained our I would like to highlight the fact that this year's budget, economic commitment from the 2011 campaign. I remember clearly telling the action plan 2013, has a direct line item to support Yukon College's great people of Yukon that we were going to focus on returning Centre for Northern Innovation in Mining. Our government and our Canada to balanced budgets. We were going to do so in two key Prime Minister recognize that mining and responsible resource ways. First, we would not raise taxes for Canadian families. Second, development in the north will provide that vital opportunity for we would not cut the transfer payments to the territories and balance people of the north. It will create Yukon jobs for Yukon people. This our budgets on the backs of the provinces and territories through technical and trades facility investment will allow Yukoners to stay transfer payments. at home while they study. It will allow them that critical opportunity to access the kinds of jobs that will be available for them in the job Once again, we have not only maintained that commitment, we market. It will give them the opportunity to come out of school and have actually increased the transfer payments to the provinces and go right into the workforce. What we heard time and time again, as territories. Our territory has certainly benefited from that. This year's we did consultations across the territory, was that the jobs were there payment is $861 million, up from $809 million last year. Our social and Yukon people wanted access to those jobs. However, they transfer payments have increased. Our health care transfer payments needed the training where training was not available. have increased. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15301

The Budget Why is that important? It is important because it allows the ● (1715) territory and our municipalities the ability to control their own path [Translation] forward and to control their own destiny. They can make longer term plans for what they want to achieve as a territory, in partnership with The new roadmap reflects a commitment that will increase the their municipalities and the great communities that exist in Yukon. It vitality of Canada's official language minority communities. It helps also allows them to meet their education and health care targets and strengthen linguistic duality. Canada's two official languages are an their social and environmental responsibilities. integral part of our history, our culture and our national identity. I am proud of our Franco-Yukon community. I know the people of Yukon and the Yukon government certainly appreciate our commitment to ensure that the transfer payments to [English] the territories are not cut, as we have seen under previous Liberal I am proud of the contribution that our Francophone community governments. makes to the vibrant culture of the Yukon Territory. It is important to I can highlight those quickly. If we look at past transfer payments, me that we continue that road map, which is something that was I did highlight that the grand total this year was $861 million, of defined as extremely important to the Francophonie of the Yukon. I which $817 million was through the territorial formula financing am glad that is contained within this budget as well. program. When we reflect on that, it is an increase of $316 million I look forward to celebrating all the good news in budget 2013, from what we received under previous Liberal governments. the economic action plan, throughout this year, as we move forward The health care transfer gives $32 million to the territory. That is and secure Canada's and the Yukon's long-term future for jobs, an increase of almost $10 million, or 43% more than what we growth and long-term prosperity. received under Liberal governments. Our Canadian social transfer is [Translation] an increase of $10 million, or 32%. Mr. Jonathan Tremblay (Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute- In all areas, our government has maintained its commitment not Côte-Nord, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I do not know what reason we have to balance the deficit and not to bring us back to balanced budgets by to be proud of this government, which has been running a deficit slashing transfers to the territory. That is certainly a significant step since 2008, despite many promises to balance the budget. The forward. Conservatives keep putting it off, and now it has been put off until it is time for the next election in 2015, which is a bit suspicious. We are maintaining our commitments. We are not raising taxes on Canadian families and we are achieving a return to balanced budgets In his latest budget, the Minister of Finance has once again shown by 2015. We are working hard at that and we are well on our way. us that he is abandoning the regions and economic development. My That is great news to celebrate. Conservative Party colleague may not agree, but the Conservatives decided to cut the budget for the Economic Development Agency for When we did consultations across the territory this summer, I was the Regions some time ago. happily joined by several ministers. I did a number of consultations on my own as well. We certainly heard from community to They are currently cutting labour-sponsored funds. In Quebec, community how popular the building Canada fund was and how venture capital is derived mainly from these funds, which are important it was to ensure the territory was surviving through the essential to economic development. global economic crisis that we saw in the 2008 recession. We heard Will the hon. member admit that the minister made a big mistake consistently from our folks in Yukon that they wanted the return of and ask him to reverse his decision to eliminate these funds? the building Canada fund. [English] We now have the building Canada fund back at record levels. It is Mr. Ryan Leef: Mr. Speaker, I do agree with my hon. colleague the largest and longest infrastructure fund that the country has ever that I do not agree with him. seen. I know our municipalities are going to be very happy about that. It is something for which they lobbied hard. It is something they The member asked what we have to be proud of, and so I will read encouraged us to keep. They encouraged us to keep the name. They a couple of things that we have to be proud of. liked it so much and it reflected what they were trying to achieve. Here is a quote from the National Association of Career Colleges: The municipalities are all celebrating the indexing and the Thanks to the reforms proposed in this budget, including the new Canada Job permanency of the gas tax fund right now because these things will Grant, an increased number of unemployed and underemployed Canadians will be allow our municipalities to make core plans and project their destiny able to obtain training that they need to access jobs that are in demand now, and will well into the future, beyond the nose of a mandate for tomorrow and be in the future. [...] The 2013 budget introduced by this government will benefit beyond a one-year budget cycle. This is allowing our municipalities, Canadian job-seekers as well as employers seeking qualified and skilled employees. our towns and our communities to project well into the future. I am proud of that. I am proud of the third-party endorsement for There are a whole host of other things contained in the budget this bill, which has been like no other. from which Yukon and our nation will benefit. I obviously do not I did not get to touch on housing, which is obviously important to have time to get into all of those things, but I did want to highlight the north, and we have a record investment in that. that. I wanted to highlight some of the key things of which we were asked. Here is what Habitat for Humanity has to say: 15302 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

The Budget The Harper government's renewed investment in affordable housing comes as for Calgary Centre to talk about something that matters to every great news for low-income families looking to buy a safe, decent and affordable Canadian and every Calgarian, and that is opportunity. Our budget, Habitat home and for young Canadians who receive apprenticeship training on Habitat build sites, developing trade skills that lead to good jobs. economic action plan 2013, paves the way for every Canadian woman, man and child to have a bright future filled with opportunity. The list goes on and on. I have never seen third-party endorsement That is something we prize as Conservatives and something we prize so significant for a budget, as we have for economic action plan in Calgary. We get it. This budget gets it. Canadians get it. 2013. I am certainly very proud of that. ● (1720) Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Winnipeg North, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I This is a budget that has an $18.7-billion deficit on the road to want to provide comment in regard to health care. being balanced in 2015. Some in my riding would like us to go even further, faster, and that is because Albertans have seen very positive When we think of health care in Canada, former Prime Minister benefits from balanced budgets. A balanced budget is what boosted Brian Mulroney almost destroyed the national health care plan Alberta from the economic doldrums of the 1990s to become the because he was prepared to allow tax point transfers as opposed to economic engine of Canada. It is what took Saskatchewan from providing up-front cash. It was Prime Minister Chrétien who being a have-not province to prosperity, with the highest growth rate instituted guaranteed cash allotments, and yes, there was a bit of in the country. Today, it is enticing kids to come home, to live, work reduction. However, Paul Martin established a health care accord and raise their families again in Saskatchewan. That is why our that guaranteed annual funding increases to health care. government will balance our budget in 2015. Today, because of Liberal administrations, we have the highest number of cash dollars going to individual provinces. On the other hand, the current Conservative government, in dealing with health Ralph Klein, who is much thought of these days, started care services, refuses to meet with the premiers across this country to Canadians down this path by rejecting tired recipes for economic come up with a new health care accord. disaster. As John Maynard Keynes pontificated, when times are bad one borrows, and when times are good one pays back. However, that The member asks for relevance. It was this member who talked never works. Our Conservative government's action plan keeps about health care and now he has to answer a question regarding it. Canadians firmly on the path to jobs, growth and long-term The question is: When is the Conservative government going to have prosperity. It is a common sense budget with time-tested techniques a new health care accord to assure Canadians that the government is that work, regardless of what people hear from the opposition. prepared to continue to have annual increases in the financing of our national health care program? Mr. Ryan Leef: Mr. Speaker, I always appreciate my hon. While the NDP is for carbon taxes, we are for cutting taxes. While colleague's interventions. the opposition claims to stand up for workers, we are the party that I do remember the Liberal government's leadership. I remember has created nearly a million jobs. While the NDP would introduce a that it cut transfers to the territories. We were laying off doctors and $21 billion carbon tax, we have cut taxes 150 times since 2006. In nurses. I remember that quite well. Our government is not putting the fact, we have left the average Canadian family with $3,300 more in territory in that position. their pockets than when we took office. Where the Leader of the Opposition goes to Washington to, guess what, sabotage trade and My hon. colleague asked when our leadership is going to meet attack our industry, we are taking the most ambitious approach to with the premiers. trade that this country has ever had, seeking 66 free trade deals around the world. It is clear that the results are in. I can say first-hand that the Prime Minister of our country meets directly with the premier of my territory. I have been present when he has done that. The ministers are in and out of my territory all the time meeting with the territorial representatives and ministers there. I am happy to say that under the leadership of our Prime Minister, They are meeting with the premier. The premier has been here with Canada has the best economy, the best growth record and the best his ministers as recently as this year. The relationship between the job record in the G7. While people in Europe, Greece and Cyprus are racked with uncertainty because of the very fragile financial situation territorial government and our government is tremendous. They are talking about the health care transfers. they are in, Canadians see a future that is laden with opportunity that is waiting to be seized. However, we realize that more needs to Again, I mentioned that the health transfer has an increase of $10 happen. There are still Canadian citizens in my riding who are million, which is 43% more than that of the Liberal government in without work. We get that. This budget gets that. Canadians get that. less than six years— The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We have reached the end of the time provided for questions and comments in this Let us hear what is being said about the Canadian jobs plan. particular round. Engineers Canada stated, “The steps the federal government is proposing will ensure that Canada has the talent it needs to drive our Resuming debate, the hon. member for Calgary Centre. economy”. The Canadian Chamber of Commerce stated, “The Ms. Joan Crockatt (Calgary Centre, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I am measures...are a significant step forward in the federal government’s rising today in the House of Commons as the member of Parliament attack on Canada’s skills challenge”. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15303

The Budget The Canadian Taxpayers Federation applauds the government's Under the Conservatives, our economy has proven itself more plan to overhaul job training and to keep a lid on spending. It stated, steady and resilient than any of the G7 nations. As it has flourished, “It's good to see Ottawa getting training money directly in the hands we have protected more natural parkland than any government in of young workers so they can land a good-paying job”. Finally, Canadian history. These are areas like Sable Island, the Nahanni and Christopher Smillie of the Canadian Building Trades of the AFL- the boreal forest. CIO, who represents 200,000 workers, stated, “This budget is kind of Nirvana for a group like ours that represents these skilled workers.... It's...[a] common-sense approach”. Where should we look when we want trustworthy information on the budget? Do we look to the reckless attacks of the opposition or We are the first government in Canadian history to actually reduce instead to the honest, non-partisan comments of people like Smillie, greenhouse gas emissions, and we are halfway to our goal of who stand for hard-working Canadians and are excited about the reducing emissions 17% by 2020. Under the previous Liberal new opportunities that this budget promises? There is a simple government, gas emissions actually increased by a staggering 30%. reason the skills training has been so well received and that is because it started with Canadians. We listened to what they said. ● (1725)

The Canadian Chamber of Commerce saw a massive skills The economic action plan maintains our momentum. It includes shortage looming due to a demographic shift caused by retirements. commitments to supporting environmental management and green In my own riding, during pre-budget consultations the Calgary tech. Environmental funding in this budget includes: $248 million to chamber, seniors groups, corporations and even the volunteer sector strengthen the Meteorological Service of Canada; $20 million to made it clear that the number one issue they saw facing Canada was conserve ecologically sensitive land; $4 million for more responsible the skills shortage. marine management; support for community partnerships to conserve fisheries habitat; renewed funding for Sustainable Devel- We heard these warnings, and we have acted. The Canada jobs opment Technology Canada; restoring bridges in national parks; plan will offer opportunities for more carpenters, electricians, protecting against invasive species; and tax support for clean energy plumbers, pipefitters, welders and others. It was same story that generation through the accelerated capital cost allowance. we heard from coast to coast to coast. Calgarians' concerns are the same as Canadians' concerns. We get that. The budget gets it. Canadians get it. That is why our Minister of Finance has been acting so decisively. We are introducing the Canada jobs grant that provides $15,000 per person Were these just empty gestures? Not according to Sustainable in combined federal, provincial and employer money to help as Development Technology Canada. Its president, Vicky Sharpe said: many as 130,000 Canadians get job skills that are actually in demand. What a shock. It is employers not the government who decide the skills that are needed. We are lowering barriers to get apprentices accredited, boosting apprentices on federal projects, and giving unemployed aboriginal youth a leg up to get the training they The investment announced....will continue Canada's leadership in commercializ- need for a brighter and better future. ing innovative clean technologies, supporting a thriving part of Canada's economy.... For under-represented groups in the workforce, we are introducing a $40 million-a-year opportunities fund for persons with disabilities. As Conservatives, we believe in creating opportunity for Canadians. Our goal is a sustainable economy, not band-aids that She said that the moves will help them continue innovating, mask what needs to be done to keep our country moving forward. bringing in as much as $62 billion and 126,000 jobs by 2020. Wow. We get it. This budget gets it. Canadians get it. That says it all. That is environment and economy working together. Finally, in the area of the environment, our government knows that to preserve the richness of opportunity we have now for future generations, careful stewardship of the natural environment is vital. Conservatives, like most Canadians, are environmentalists but we are not radicals. We recognize that the environment and the economy To conclude, it is time that the opposition myths that pit the work together to produce our high standard of living and it is only environment against the economy are put to bed. Let us start seeing with a strong economy that we can stand strong in protecting the the environment and the economy as partners in making Canada a treasure that is Canada's natural world. The environment and the land of opportunity for future generations. Our government's recipe economy are not at war. When one thrives, so does the other. This for success is low taxes, job creation and protection of the has been clearly in evidence for the past seven years of Conservative environment. We get it. The budget gets it. Best of all, Canadians leadership. get it. 15304 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

The Budget ● (1730) This question about greenhouse gas emissions comes from the Ms. Linda Duncan (Edmonton—Strathcona, NDP): Mr. party that saw its emission levels increase by 30%. All the while, it Speaker, I thank the hon. member for her first speech on the federal was trying to tell the Canadian public that it adhered to the Kyoto budget. accord. Our government has actually decreased emissions while growing the economy in a global recession and creating almost a When I hear about the commitment of the government to the million jobs. That speaks for itself. environment and to a clean energy future, I practically choke. It has come to my attention just this week that even the Alberta minister of Ms. Michelle Rempel (Parliamentary Secretary to the the environment had to go to the Canadian Council of Ministers of Minister of the Environment, CPC): Mr. Speaker, it is always a the Environment and beg the federal government not to downgrade pleasure to ask my colleague, who has a neighbouring riding, about the standards for coal-fired power plants. the importance of the energy sector to our economy, as opposed to my other colleague from Alberta who fails to understand the As the member is from Calgary, she well knows that the oil and importance of that, both to her riding and to the Canadian economy gas sector has spoken out very loudly in favour of the federal as a whole. government coming on board with a Canadian energy strategy. The premier of our province has called for the support of the federal I wonder what my colleague's constituents think about the Liberal government to the Canadian energy strategy. We see nothing in this government's best idea for the environment being dogging Kyoto or budget even recognizing the fact that Canadians want that and the fact that we are the first government to publish standards for nothing for the program that all Canadians have asked to come back, coal-fired electricity. Also, I wonder how her constituents feel about as the member claimed that she was consulting her constituents, on the leader of the NDP's anti-jobs trip to the United States. the eco-energy home retrofit program. I am wondering if the member could again stand up and defend As well, how does the budget positively impact both her the great commitment of the government to the desire of Canadians constituents and mine? for a clean energy future. Ms. Joan Crockatt: Mr. Speaker, because the member is from The Deputy Speaker: I am sorry, we are out of time. Alberta, I am sure that she is all too familiar with the position of her own party that the energy industry in Alberta is a disease, when the Resuming debate. The hon. member for LaSalle—Émard. whole sector has a very proud record of environmental achievement. We are exporting environmental technologies from Canada. We have [Translation] some of the best environmental technologies on the entire planet. We are proud of that. Ms. Hélène LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I was born 55 years ago today. It is absolutely deplorable that we hear day after day in the House from this party that our energy industry is not measuring up to high I was born in a Canadian society that had made choices such as environmental standards. That includes our pipelines and our west the choice to have an accessible universal health care system and a coast tanker traffic. It is time we started getting some good pension plan so that our seniors could live in dignity. It was a society information out to the public. that had chosen to have an employment insurance program to help ● (1735) workers who lost their jobs. It was a society in which people could Mr. Ted Hsu (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, in still live in safety and prosperity, knowing there were social response to the remarks by my colleague, it is dishonest for the programs in place to meet their needs. government to claim credit for the decrease in Canada's greenhouse gas emissions. The biggest credit for change in greenhouse gas Canada chose to have these programs for the past 55 years and emissions must go to the recession that started in 2008-09, which has even before that so that we could have a society where no one would decreased manufacturing across the country. Credit should go to be abandoned. provincial governments, such as the Government of Ontario and the Government of Alberta. The member's own province of Alberta has It is now 2013. What is the government doing to this Canadian put a price on the emissions of fossil carbon. Credit has to go to society where no one was abandoned? municipal governments. The member's own city, Calgary, has taken many actions for which it could commend itself. Therefore, the economics of natural gas versus coal have changed. Last Thursday, the Conservative government tabled its 2013 budget, whose title, “Jobs, Growth and Long-Term Prosperity”, is The member must, to be honest, admit that the government cannot misleading. In fact, this budget contains very few new measures. claim credit for the decrease in greenhouse gas emissions in Canada. Instead, it is merely a government public relations exercise. Ms. Joan Crockatt: Mr. Speaker, government does not always have to do everything. Government leads the way. Our approach is The Conservatives chose to go with an austerity budget rather than different from the Liberals and the NDP. They want high taxes, high invest to truly address Canada's current economic challenges. This spending and bloated government. We believe that we show the way insipid budget speaks of a tired government that has run out of ideas. for industry and individuals to make better quality decisions. This budget is all talk and no action. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15305

The Budget When I talk to people in my riding, they share their concerns. Since 2007, the NDP has been proposing a national strategy for They are concerned about pension reforms, not only for themselves, the automotive industry in order to maintain and increase the number but for future generations. They are concerned about the employ- of well-paid jobs. ment insurance reforms. They are seeing the social safety net that they could rely on in tough times unravel more and more. They are In closing, I would like to point out once again that this budget is concerned about the cuts to health care and about this government's an empty shell that has no vision for the future of Canada. This is not constant attacks against environmental protection. a bold and innovative budget. In fact, this budget resembles the government: it is a dull, tired budget mired in an ideology that will I am just as concerned about the Conservative government's lead Canada to a dead end. decision to keep making devastating cuts to health care programs, ● (1745) pensions and employment insurance. The Deputy Speaker: It being 5:45 p.m., it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to I would like to move on to co-operatives, a subject that is very dispose of Ways and Means Motion No. 15. important to me. Last year we celebrated the International Year of Co-operatives. The Conservatives took the opportunity to cut the co- [English] operative development initiative and dismantle the Rural and Co- The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to operatives Secretariat. adopt the motion? Hidden in budget 2013 is a measure that will harm caisses Some hon. members: Agreed. populaires and credit unions, and that is the elimination of the tax credit for those institutions, which are in fact the economic driver of Some hon. members: No. a number of regions in Canada, even Canada as a whole. The Deputy Speaker: All those in favour of the motion will Again, this measure illustrates the not-so-hidden intentions of this please say yea. government to undermine the co-operative movement in Canada. Some hon. members: Yea. The shift of responsibility for co-operatives to Industry Canada, in response to the report by the Special Committee on Co-operatives, The Deputy Speaker: All those opposed will please say nay. still has not produced any meaningful results. Some hon. members: Nay. When will this government stop attacking the co-operative The Deputy Speaker: In my opinion the yeas have it. movement and when will the Minister of Industry do his job? And five or more members having risen: I would now like to move on to the aerospace industry. Last spring and fall, in my role as the industry critic, I met a number of players in The Deputy Speaker: Call in the members. the aerospace industry and I visited a number of businesses. Their ● (1825) message was clear: the aerospace industry is at a crossroads and (The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the needs a clear sign from the government, namely a predictable, long- term vision of federal programs to allow Canada's aerospace industry following division:) to be competitive. (Division No. 649) ● (1740) YEAS Budget 2013 responded in only a limited way to the recommenda- Members tions of the Emerson report and did not give that clear sign that this Ablonczy Adams Adler Aglukkaq government is serious and committed to recognizing the aerospace Albas Albrecht industry's strategic importance to Canada. Alexander Allen (Tobique—Mactaquac) Allison Ambler Anders Anderson When Chris Hadfield took command of the international space Armstrong Ashfield station, the government, after dragging its feet for more than a year Aspin Baird Bateman Benoit and almost jeopardizing Canadian satellite expertise, finally released Bergen Bernier funding for the RADARSAT Constellation program. Bezan Blaney Boughen Braid Breitkreuz Brown (Leeds—Grenville) However, there are serious questions being asked about the future Brown (Newmarket—Aurora) Brown (Barrie) of the Canadian space program because the government continues to Bruinooge Butt deprive the space agency of the funds it needs and the direction that Calandra Cannan Carmichael Carrie would allow Canada to excel in this sector. Chisu Chong Clarke Clement I recently went to Windsor, Ontario, the heart of the auto industry. Crockatt Daniel Davidson Dechert Workers are worried about the future. A number of plants have Del Mastro Devolin closed their doors, which has led to many job losses. Over the years, Dreeshen Duncan (Vancouver Island North) Dykstra Fast this sector has been neglected by successive governments, and it is Galipeau Gallant only when confronted by a crisis that the government reacts. Gill Glover 15306 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Private Members' Business

Goguen Goldring Godin Goodale Goodyear Gosal Gravelle Groguhé Gourde Grewal Harris (Scarborough Southwest) Harris (St. John's East) Harper Harris (Cariboo—Prince George) Hassainia Hsu Hawn Hiebert Hughes Hyer Hillyer Hoback Jacob Julian Holder James Kellway Lamoureux Jean Kamp (Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission) Lapointe Larose Keddy (South Shore—St. Margaret's) Kenney (Calgary Southeast) Latendresse Laverdière Kent Komarnicki LeBlanc (Beauséjour) LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard) Kramp (Prince Edward—Hastings) Lake Leslie Liu Lauzon Lebel MacAulay Mai Leef Leitch Marston Martin Lemieux Leung Masse Mathyssen Lizon Lobb May McCallum Lukiwski Lunney McGuinty McKay (Scarborough—Guildwood) MacKay (Central Nova) MacKenzie Michaud Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue) Mayes McColeman Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord) Morin (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine) McLeod Menegakis Morin (Laurentides—Labelle) Morin (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot) Menzies Merrifield Mourani Nantel Miller Moore (Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam) Nash Nicholls Moore (Fundy Royal) Nicholson Nunez-Melo Pacetti Norlock Obhrai Papillon Patry O'Connor Oliver Péclet Pilon O'Neill Gordon Opitz Plamondon Quach O'Toole Paradis Rae Rafferty Payne Poilievre Rankin Ravignat Preston Raitt Raynault Regan Rajotte Rathgeber Rousseau Saganash Reid Rempel Sandhu Scarpaleggia Richards Rickford Scott Sellah Ritz Schellenberger Sgro Simms (Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Wind- Seeback Shea sor) Shipley Shory Sims (Newton—North Delta) Sitsabaiesan Smith Sopuck St-Denis Stewart Sorenson Stanton Stoffer Sullivan Strahl Sweet Thibeault Toone Tilson Toet Tremblay Turmel Toews Trost Valeriote–— 133 Trottier Tweed Uppal Van Kesteren Van Loan Vellacott PAIRED Wallace Warawa Nil Warkentin Watson Weston (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country) The Speaker: I declare the motion adopted. Weston (Saint John) Wilks Williamson Wong Woodworth Yelich Young (Oakville) Zimmer–— 149 PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS NAYS Members [English]

Allen (Welland) Andrews CANADA LABOUR CODE Angus Ashton Atamanenko Aubin The House resumed from Friday, March 8 consideration of the Ayala Bélanger Bellavance Bennett motion that Bill C-464, An Act to amend the Canada Labour Code Benskin Bevington and the Employment Insurance Act (parental leave for multiple Blanchette Blanchette-Lamothe births or adoptions), be read the second time and referred to a Boivin Borg Boulerice Boutin-Sweet committee. Brahmi Brison Brosseau Byrne The Speaker: Pursuant to an order made on Friday, March 8, Caron Casey 2013, the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred Cash Chicoine recorded division on the motion at second reading stage of Bill Chisholm Choquette Chow Christopherson C-464 under private members' business. Cleary Coderre Comartin Côté ● (1835) Crowder Cullen Cuzner Davies (Vancouver Kingsway) (The House divided on the motion, which was negatived on the Day Dewar following division:) Dion Dionne Labelle Donnelly Doré Lefebvre (Division No. 650) Dubé Duncan (Edmonton—Strathcona) Dusseault Easter Eyking Foote YEAS Fortin Freeman Members Fry Garneau Garrison Genest Allen (Welland) Andrews Genest-Jourdain Giguère Angus Ashton March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15307

Private Members' Business

Atamanenko Aubin Breitkreuz Brown (Leeds—Grenville) Ayala Bélanger Brown (Newmarket—Aurora) Brown (Barrie) Bellavance Bennett Butt Calandra Benskin Bevington Cannan Carmichael Blanchette Blanchette-Lamothe Carrie Chisu Boivin Borg Chong Clarke Boulerice Boutin-Sweet Clement Crockatt Brahmi Brison Daniel Davidson Brosseau Bruinooge Dechert Del Mastro Byrne Caron Devolin Dreeshen Casey Cash Duncan (Vancouver Island North) Dykstra Chicoine Chisholm Fast Galipeau Choquette Chow Gallant Gill Christopherson Cleary Glover Goguen Coderre Comartin Goldring Goodyear Côté Crowder Gosal Gourde Cullen Cuzner Grewal Harper Davies (Vancouver Kingsway) Day Harris (Cariboo—Prince George) Hawn Dewar Dion Hillyer Hoback Dionne Labelle Donnelly Holder James Doré Lefebvre Dubé Jean Kamp (Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission) Duncan (Edmonton—Strathcona) Dusseault Keddy (South Shore—St. Margaret's) Kenney (Calgary Southeast) Easter Eyking Kent Komarnicki Foote Fortin Kramp (Prince Edward—Hastings) Lake Freeman Fry Lauzon Lebel Garneau Garrison Leef Leitch Genest Genest-Jourdain Lemieux Leung Giguère Godin Lizon Lobb Goodale Gravelle Lukiwski Lunney Groguhé Harris (Scarborough Southwest) MacKay (Central Nova) MacKenzie Harris (St. John's East) Hassainia Mayes McColeman Hiebert Hsu McLeod Menegakis Hughes Hyer Menzies Merrifield Jacob Julian Miller Moore (Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam) Kellway Lamoureux Moore (Fundy Royal) Nicholson Lapointe Larose Norlock Obhrai Latendresse Laverdière O'Connor Oliver LeBlanc (Beauséjour) LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard) O'Neill Gordon Opitz Leslie Liu O'Toole Paradis MacAulay Mai Payne Poilievre Marston Martin Preston Raitt Masse Mathyssen Rajotte Rathgeber May McCallum Reid Rempel McGuinty McKay (Scarborough—Guildwood) Richards Rickford Michaud Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue) Ritz Schellenberger Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord) Morin (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine) Seeback Shea Morin (Laurentides—Labelle) Morin (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot) Shipley Shory Mourani Nantel Smith Sopuck Nash Nicholls Sorenson Stanton Nunez-Melo Pacetti Strahl Sweet Papillon Patry Tilson Toet Péclet Perreault Toews Trost Pilon Plamondon Trottier Tweed Quach Rae Uppal Van Kesteren Rafferty Rankin Van Loan Vellacott Ravignat Raynault Wallace Warawa Regan Rousseau Warkentin Watson Saganash Sandhu Weston (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country) Scarpaleggia Scott Weston (Saint John) Sellah Sgro Wilks Williamson Simms (Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor) Wong Woodworth Sims (Newton—North Delta) Yelich Young (Oakville) Sitsabaiesan St-Denis Zimmer–— 147 Stewart Stoffer Sullivan Thibeault PAIRED Toone Tremblay Nil Turmel Valeriote–— 136 The Speaker: I declare the motion defeated. NAYS *** Members [Translation] Ablonczy Adams Adler Aglukkaq AIR PASSENGERS' BILL OF RIGHTS Albas Albrecht Alexander Allen (Tobique—Mactaquac) Allison Ambler The House resumed from March 22 consideration of the motion Anders Anderson that Bill C-459, An Act respecting the rights of air passengers, be Armstrong Ashfield read the second time and referred to a committee. Aspin Baird Bateman Benoit The Speaker: The House will now proceed to the taking of the Bergen Bernier Bezan Blaney deferred recorded division on the motion at second reading stage of Boughen Braid Bill C-459 under private members' business. 15308 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Private Members' Business ● (1840) NAYS [English] Members Ablonczy Adams (The House divided on the motion, which was negatived on the Adler Aglukkaq following division:) Albas Albrecht Alexander Allen (Tobique—Mactaquac) (Division No. 651) Allison Ambler Anders Anderson YEAS Armstrong Ashfield Aspin Baird Members Bateman Benoit Bergen Bernier Allen (Welland) Andrews Bezan Blaney Angus Ashton Boughen Braid Atamanenko Aubin Breitkreuz Brown (Leeds—Grenville) Ayala Bélanger Brown (Newmarket—Aurora) Brown (Barrie) Bellavance Bennett Bruinooge Butt Benskin Bevington Calandra Cannan Blanchette Blanchette-Lamothe Carmichael Carrie Boivin Borg Chisu Chong Boulerice Boutin-Sweet Clarke Clement Brahmi Brison Crockatt Daniel Brosseau Byrne Davidson Dechert Caron Casey Del Mastro Devolin Cash Chicoine Dreeshen Duncan (Vancouver Island North) Chisholm Choquette Dykstra Fast Chow Christopherson Galipeau Gallant Cleary Coderre Gill Glover Comartin Côté Goguen Goldring Crowder Cullen Goodyear Gosal Cuzner Davies (Vancouver Kingsway) Gourde Grewal Day Dewar Harper Harris (Cariboo—Prince George) Dion Dionne Labelle Hawn Hiebert Donnelly Doré Lefebvre Hillyer Hoback Dubé Duncan (Edmonton—Strathcona) Holder James Dusseault Easter Jean Kamp (Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission) Eyking Foote Keddy (South Shore—St. Margaret's) Kenney (Calgary Southeast) Fortin Freeman Kent Komarnicki Kramp (Prince Edward—Hastings) Lake Fry Garneau Lauzon Lebel Garrison Genest Leef Leitch Genest-Jourdain Giguère Lemieux Leung Godin Goodale Lizon Lobb Gravelle Groguhé Lukiwski Lunney Harris (Scarborough Southwest) Harris (St. John's East) MacKay (Central Nova) MacKenzie Hassainia Hsu Mayes McColeman Hughes Hyer McLeod Menegakis Jacob Julian Menzies Merrifield Kellway Lamoureux Miller Moore (Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam) Lapointe Larose Moore (Fundy Royal) Nicholson Latendresse Laverdière Norlock Obhrai LeBlanc (Beauséjour) LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard) O'Connor Oliver Leslie Liu O'Neill Gordon Opitz MacAulay Mai O'Toole Paradis Marston Martin Payne Poilievre Masse Mathyssen Preston Raitt May McCallum Rajotte Rathgeber McGuinty McKay (Scarborough—Guildwood) Reid Rempel Michaud Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue) Richards Rickford Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord) Morin (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine) Ritz Schellenberger Morin (Laurentides—Labelle) Morin (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot) Seeback Shea Mourani Nantel Shipley Shory Nash Nicholls Smith Sopuck Nunez-Melo Pacetti Sorenson Stanton Papillon Patry Strahl Sweet Péclet Perreault Tilson Toet Pilon Plamondon Toews Trost Quach Rae Trottier Tweed Rafferty Rankin Uppal Van Kesteren Ravignat Raynault Van Loan Vellacott Regan Rousseau Wallace Warawa Saganash Sandhu Warkentin Watson Scarpaleggia Scott Weston (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country) Sellah Sgro Weston (Saint John) Simms (Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor) Wilks Williamson Sims (Newton—North Delta) Wong Woodworth Sitsabaiesan St-Denis Yelich Young (Oakville) Stewart Stoffer Zimmer–— 149 Sullivan Thibeault Toone Tremblay PAIRED Turmel Valeriote–— 134 Nil March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15309

Private Members' Business The Speaker: I declare the motion defeated. Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue) Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord) Morin (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine) Morin (Laurentides—Labelle) Morin (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot) Mourani *** Nantel Nash Nicholls Nunez-Melo BAN ON SHARK FIN IMPORTATION ACT Pacetti Papillon The House resumed from March 25 consideration of the motion Patry Péclet Perreault Pilon that Bill C-380, An Act to amend the Fish Inspection Act and the Plamondon Quach Fisheries Act (importation of shark fins), be read the second time and Rae Rafferty Rajotte Rankin referred to a committee. Ravignat Raynault Regan Rousseau The Speaker: The House will now proceed to the taking of the Saganash Sandhu deferred recorded division on the motion at second reading stage of Scarpaleggia Scott Bill C-380. Sellah Sgro Simms (Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor) ● (1850) Sims (Newton—North Delta) Sitsabaiesan St-Denis Before the Clerk announced the results of the vote: Stewart Stoffer Sullivan Thibeault The Speaker: I believe the hon. member for Etobicoke— Toone Tremblay Turmel Valeriote Lakeshore may wish to explain which way he intended to vote. Williamson Young (Oakville)–— 138 Mr. Bernard Trottier: Mr. Speaker, in my enthusiasm, I NAYS inadvertently voted twice. My intention was to vote no. Members

(The House divided on the motion, which was negatived on the Ablonczy Adams following division:) Adler Aglukkaq Albas Albrecht (Division No. 652) Alexander Allen (Tobique—Mactaquac) Allison Ambler YEAS Anders Anderson Armstrong Ashfield Members Aspin Baird Bateman Benoit Allen (Welland) Andrews Bergen Bernier Angus Ashton Bezan Blaney Atamanenko Aubin Boughen Braid Ayala Bélanger Breitkreuz Brown (Leeds—Grenville) Bellavance Bennett Brown (Newmarket—Aurora) Brown (Barrie) Benskin Bevington Bruinooge Butt Blanchette Blanchette-Lamothe Calandra Cannan Boivin Borg Carmichael Carrie Boulerice Boutin-Sweet Chisu Chong Brahmi Brison Clarke Clement Brosseau Byrne Crockatt Daniel Caron Casey Davidson Dechert Cash Chicoine Del Mastro Devolin Chisholm Choquette Dreeshen Duncan (Vancouver Island North) Chow Christopherson Dykstra Fast Cleary Coderre Galipeau Gallant Comartin Côté Gill Glover Crowder Cullen Goguen Goodyear Cuzner Davies (Vancouver Kingsway) Gosal Gourde Day Dewar Grewal Harper Dion Dionne Labelle Harris (Cariboo—Prince George) Hawn Donnelly Doré Lefebvre Hiebert Hillyer Dubé Duncan (Edmonton—Strathcona) Hoback Holder Dusseault Easter Jean Kamp (Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission) Eyking Foote Keddy (South Shore—St. Margaret's) Kenney (Calgary Southeast) Fortin Freeman Kent Komarnicki Fry Garneau Kramp (Prince Edward—Hastings) Lake Garrison Genest Lauzon Lebel Genest-Jourdain Giguère Leef Leitch Godin Goldring Lemieux Leung Goodale Gravelle Lizon Lobb Groguhé Harris (Scarborough Southwest) Lukiwski Lunney Harris (St. John's East) Hassainia MacKay (Central Nova) MacKenzie Hsu Hughes Mayes McColeman Hyer Jacob McLeod Menegakis Julian Kellway Menzies Merrifield Lamoureux Lapointe Miller Moore (Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam) Larose Latendresse Moore (Fundy Royal) Nicholson Laverdière LeBlanc (Beauséjour) Norlock Obhrai LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard) Leslie O'Connor Oliver Liu MacAulay O'Neill Gordon Opitz Mai Marston O'Toole Paradis Martin Masse Payne Poilievre Mathyssen May Preston Raitt McCallum McGuinty Rathgeber Reid McKay (Scarborough—Guildwood) Michaud Rempel Richards 15310 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Private Members' Business

Rickford Ritz Hiebert Hillyer Schellenberger Seeback Hoback Holder Shea Shipley Hyer James Shory Smith Jean Kamp (Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission) Sopuck Stanton Keddy (South Shore—St. Margaret's) Kenney (Calgary Southeast) Strahl Sweet Kent Komarnicki Tilson Toet Kramp (Prince Edward—Hastings) Lake Toews Trost Lauzon Lebel Trottier Tweed Leef Leitch Uppal Van Kesteren Lemieux Leung Van Loan Vellacott Lizon Lobb Wallace Warawa Lukiwski Lunney Warkentin Watson MacKay (Central Nova) MacKenzie Weston (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country) Mayes McColeman Weston (Saint John) McLeod Menegakis Wilks Wong Menzies Merrifield Woodworth Yelich Miller Moore (Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam) Zimmer–— 143 Moore (Fundy Royal) Mourani Nicholson Norlock PAIRED Obhrai O'Connor Nil Oliver O'Neill Gordon Opitz O'Toole The Speaker: I declare the motion defeated. Paradis Patry Payne Plamondon *** Poilievre Preston Raitt Rajotte CBC AND PUBLIC SERVICE DISCLOSURE AND Rathgeber Reid Rempel Richards TRANSPARENCY ACT Rickford Ritz Schellenberger Seeback The House resumed from March 26 consideration of the motion Shea Shipley that Bill C-461, An Act to amend the Access to Information Act and Shory Smith Sopuck Stanton the Privacy Act (disclosure of information), be read the second time Strahl Sweet and referred to a committee. Tilson Toet Toews Trost The Speaker: The House will now proceed to the taking of the Trottier Tweed deferred recorded division on the motion at second reading stage of Uppal Van Kesteren Van Loan Vellacott Bill C-461 under private members' business. Wallace Warawa Warkentin Watson ● (1855) Weston (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country) Weston (Saint John) (The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the Wilks Williamson following division:) Wong Woodworth Yelich Young (Oakville) (Division No. 653) Zimmer–— 155 YEAS NAYS Members Members

Ablonczy Adams Allen (Welland) Angus Adler Aglukkaq Ashton Atamanenko Albas Albrecht Aubin Ayala Alexander Allen (Tobique—Mactaquac) Bélanger Bennett Allison Ambler Benskin Bevington Anders Anderson Blanchette Blanchette-Lamothe Andrews Armstrong Boivin Borg Ashfield Aspin Boulerice Boutin-Sweet Baird Bateman Brahmi Brison Bellavance Benoit Brosseau Byrne Bergen Bernier Caron Casey Bezan Blaney Cash Chicoine Boughen Braid Chisholm Choquette Breitkreuz Brown (Leeds—Grenville) Chow Christopherson Brown (Newmarket—Aurora) Brown (Barrie) Cleary Coderre Bruinooge Butt Comartin Côté Calandra Cannan Crowder Cullen Carmichael Carrie Cuzner Davies (Vancouver Kingsway) Chisu Chong Day Dewar Clarke Clement Dion Dionne Labelle Crockatt Daniel Donnelly Doré Lefebvre Davidson Dechert Dubé Duncan (Edmonton—Strathcona) Del Mastro Devolin Dusseault Easter Dreeshen Duncan (Vancouver Island North) Eyking Foote Dykstra Fast Freeman Fry Fortin Galipeau Garneau Garrison Gallant Gill Genest Genest-Jourdain Glover Goguen Giguère Godin Goldring Goodyear Goodale Gravelle Gosal Gourde Groguhé Harris (Scarborough Southwest) Grewal Harper Harris (St. John's East) Hassainia Harris (Cariboo—Prince George) Hawn Hsu Hughes March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15311

Routine Proceedings

Jacob Julian Ashton Aspin Kellway Lamoureux Atamanenko Aubin Lapointe Larose Ayala Baird Latendresse Laverdière Bateman Benoit LeBlanc (Beauséjour) LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard) Benskin Bergen Leslie Liu Bernier Bevington MacAulay Mai Bezan Blanchette Marston Martin Blanchette-Lamothe Blaney Masse Mathyssen Boivin Borg May McCallum Boughen Boulerice McGuinty McKay (Scarborough—Guildwood) Boutin-Sweet Brahmi Michaud Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue) Braid Breitkreuz Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord) Morin (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine) Brosseau Brown (Leeds—Grenville) Morin (Laurentides—Labelle) Morin (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot) Brown (Newmarket—Aurora) Brown (Barrie) Nantel Nash Bruinooge Butt Nicholls Nunez-Melo Calandra Cannan Pacetti Papillon Carmichael Caron Péclet Perreault Carrie Cash Pilon Quach Chicoine Chisholm Rae Rafferty Chisu Chong Rankin Ravignat Choquette Chow Raynault Regan Christopherson Clarke Rousseau Saganash Cleary Clement Sandhu Scarpaleggia Comartin Côté Scott Sellah Crockatt Crowder Sgro Simms (Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Wind- Cullen Daniel sor) Davidson Davies (Vancouver Kingsway) Sims (Newton—North Delta) Sitsabaiesan Day Dechert St-Denis Stewart Del Mastro Devolin Stoffer Sullivan Dewar Dionne Labelle Thibeault Toone Donnelly Doré Lefebvre Tremblay Turmel Dreeshen Dubé Valeriote–— 127 Duncan (Vancouver Island North) Duncan (Edmonton—Strathcona) Dusseault Dykstra PAIRED Fast Freeman Nil Galipeau Gallant Garrison Genest The Speaker: I declare the motion carried. Accordingly, the bill Genest-Jourdain Giguère Gill Glover stands referred to the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Godin Goguen Privacy and Ethics. Goldring Goodyear Gosal Gourde (Bill read the second time and referred to a committee) Gravelle Grewal Groguhé Harper Harris (Scarborough Southwest) Harris (St. John's East) Harris (Cariboo—Prince George) Hassainia Hawn Hiebert ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Hoback Holder Hughes Jacob [Translation] James Jean Julian Kamp (Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission) COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE Keddy (South Shore—St. Margaret's) Kellway Kenney (Calgary Southeast) Kent JUSTICE AND HUMAN RIGHTS Komarnicki Kramp (Prince Edward—Hastings) Lake Lapointe The House resumed from March 26 consideration of the motion. Larose Latendresse Lauzon Laverdière The Speaker: The House will now proceed to the taking of the Lebel LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard) deferred recorded division on the motion to concur in the 19th report Leef Leitch Lemieux Leslie of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights regarding Leung Liu the recommendation not to proceed further with Bill C-273. Lizon Lobb Lukiwski Lunney ● (1910) MacKay (Central Nova) MacKenzie Mai Marston [English] Martin Masse Mathyssen Mayes (The House divided on the motion, which was agreed on the McColeman McLeod following division:) Menegakis Menzies Merrifield Michaud (Division No. 654) Miller Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue) Moore (Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam) Moore (Fundy Royal) YEAS Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord) Morin (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine) Members Morin (Laurentides—Labelle) Morin (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot) Nantel Nash Ablonczy Adams Nicholls Nicholson Adler Aglukkaq Norlock Nunez-Melo Albas Albrecht Obhrai O'Connor Alexander Allen (Welland) Oliver O'Neill Gordon Allen (Tobique—Mactaquac) Allison Opitz O'Toole Ambler Anders Papillon Paradis Anderson Angus Payne Péclet Armstrong Ashfield Perreault Pilon 15312 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Private Members' Business Poilievre Preston [Translation] Quach Rafferty Raitt Rajotte Rankin Rathgeber Standing Order 30(7) states that this business “shall be added to Ravignat Raynault the business of the House on a day to be fixed, after consultation, by Reid Rempel the Speaker”. The Standing Orders then set out two conditions for Richards Rickford Ritz Rousseau the selection of the new date. First, the Speaker must attempt to Saganash Sandhu “designate that day within the next ten sitting days” and, second, the Schellenberger Scott Speaker must not permit “the intervention of more than one Seeback Sellah Shea Shipley adjournment period”. Shory Sims (Newton—North Delta) Sitsabaiesan Smith [English] Sopuck Stanton Stewart Stoffer The debate therefore has to take place tomorrow at the latest, Strahl Sullivan following private members' hour. However, I would remind the Sweet Thibeault Tilson Toet House that pursuant to an order made on Monday, February 25, Toews Toone 2013, the House will adjourn at 2:30 p.m. I am reluctant to interfere Tremblay Trost with that schedule, as it precedes an adjournment period for which Trottier Turmel Tweed Uppal members will no doubt have already made their travel plans. Van Kesteren Van Loan Vellacott Wallace Since we are now past 7 p.m., the House would normally be faced Warawa Warkentin with having to reschedule the item, an option that is clearly not Watson Weston (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country) possible for the reasons I have just outlined. Weston (Saint John) Wilks Williamson Wong [Translation] Woodworth Yelich Young (Oakville) Zimmer–— 244 Last week I was informed that there were consultations and that it was agreed that the second hour of debate on Motion No. 412 would NAYS be added to today's proceedings. Members [English] Andrews Bélanger Bellavance Bennett Brison Byrne Being now faced with an unforeseen situation and bound by the Casey Coderre provisions of Standing Order 30(7), I wish to inform the House that Cuzner Dion private members' business will indeed take place today, with the two Easter Eyking Foote Fortin items scheduled for debate as indicated on the notice paper. In doing Fry Garneau so, the Chair is mindful of his obligations to “make all arrangements Goodale Hillyer necessary to ensure the orderly conduct of private members' Hsu Hyer Lamoureux LeBlanc (Beauséjour) business”, as set out in Standing Order 94. MacAulay May McCallum McGuinty I thank hon. members for their collaboration. McKay (Scarborough—Guildwood) Mourani Pacetti Patry It being 7:12 p.m, the House will now proceed to the Plamondon Rae Regan Scarpaleggia consideration of private members' business as listed on today's Sgro Simms (Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Wind- order paper. sor) St-Denis Valeriote–— 38 *** PAIRED [Translation] Nil The Speaker: I declare the motion carried. DISCOVER YOUR CANADA ACT The House resumed from November 6, 2012, consideration of the motion that Bill C-463, An Act to amend the Income Tax Act (travel PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS expenses), be read the second time and referred to a committee. [English] Mr. Massimo Pacetti (Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak about my private member's bill, DELAY OR INTERRUPTION OF PRIVATE MEMBERS' HOUR—SPEAKER'S RULING which I call “Discover Your Canada”. The Speaker: On Wednesday, March 6, 2013, due to many This bill seeks to amend the Income Tax Act in order to make recorded divisions taken that day, private members' hour was travel within Canada more affordable for Canadians by providing cancelled pursuant to Standing Order 30(7). For that reason, the income tax deductions on the expense of purchasing tickets for second hour of debate on Motion No. 412, standing in the name of taxpayers and their children, for non-business travel by airplane, the member for Nipissing—Timiskaming, did not take place. train or bus, if travel covers at least three different provinces. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15313

Private Members' Business [English] conditions to ensure that the deductions are not abused are written into Bill C-463. During the many speeches we will be hearing on this bill, some members of Parliament will erroneously discuss the potential high As a result, the upper threshold of deductions will not be reached cost of the bill. However, this bill is intended to be about unifying by most eligible travellers, as was confirmed by a Parliamentary Canadians and not about finances. As an accountant and former Budget Office study I requested for this bill soon after it was chairman of the finance committee, I am usually the first person to introduced. want to ensure that the numbers add up. I have written Bill C-463 in order that the federal treasury would not be impacted and that this According to newspaper articles, the government says that this bill bill would be revenue neutral, while perhaps even being an will cost money. However, even if the government is able to justify economic generator. its estimate of the cost of this bill, nothing can compare to the $5.2 billion that Canadians spent in the United States in 2012. Therefore, the primary focus of this bill would not be financial. As During the second quarter of 2012, during trips to the United is evident in the name “discover your Canada act”, I want more States, Canadians spent $3.4 million, the most money in 20 years. In Canadians to have the option to travel across this country, something June, they spent a record $1.9 million. This increased spending is a that is usually only an option for the more affluent. I want as many result of the increase in duty free allowances, which went from $50 Canadians as possible to be able to visit other parts of their great to $200 for a stay longer than 24 hours, and from $400 to $800 for a country, and not as a layover to a foreign destination, not as a two- stay of 48 hours. We are talking about travel abroad. hour drive up to the cabin, and not as a business trip, where all they will see is an airport or perhaps a conference room. We want According to the government, this will result in the loss of Canadians to see a part of Canada that is as distant and as different hundreds of millions of dollars in 2013-14. This is another gift for from their own little corner of this great land as possible. the American industry. I first got this idea years ago while I was in Vancouver chairing the It is easy to add tax deductions. Administering them will cost the finance committee during its pre-budget consultations. Anyone who Canada Revenue Agency nothing extra. The Parliamentary Budget has been to Vancouver can tell us that there are some impressive Office said so as well. sights to behold. As a visitor walking the streets after a long day of witnesses telling us how the government should spend its money, I The last thing I want is for this bill to create more red tape. looked up and was astounded by what I saw. I thought that if more Quebeckers would see what I am seeing right now, none of them When a new income deduction is proposed, there is always a would want to separate. It was every bit as beautiful as my measurable cost, but it is not so easy to calculate the economic hometown of Montreal, but it was also very different. The vastness spinoffs. of the Pacific Ocean was different from the charm of the St. The Parliamentary Budget Office acknowledges that Bill C-463 Lawrence River. The grandeur of the Rocky Mountains was different will generate economic and financial spinoffs, but it cannot calculate from the soothing humility of Mount Royal. The modern architecture those with certainty. was different from the classic beauty of Old Montreal. Pictures can never do justice to Canadian scenery, and one can never truly Generally speaking, I can say with confidence that increased appreciate and feel like it is part of his or her natural heritage until he travel within Canada is bound to generate positive economic and or she can see it and touch it in person. financial spinoffs.

In the past, even prior to being a member of Parliament, and Increased revenues from provincial and federal sales taxes are one afterwards of course, I have been to places in Canada as far east as such fiscal benefit. Newfoundland, as far west as British Columbia and as far north as Yukon and the Northwest Territories. I have found in each place a I know that when I travel, I need to stay somewhere, I need to eat, newer and deeper appreciation for Canada. I am certain that all and I want to take in some local attractions. I like to enjoy a night out Canadians would have a better sense of their own national identity if on the town, and I enjoy bringing souvenirs back to family and they just had a chance to see parts of this country that are out of friends. All this costs money and all this will contribute to reach for some of them now. This is why I have chosen to refer Bill government revenues in the form of federal and provincial sales tax. C-463 to the heritage committee instead of the finance committee. Increased economic activity from more Canadians travelling The discovery of Canada act would not be about dollars and cents; it domestically will also benefit the tourism industry in Canada in would be about allowing Canadians to take ownership of their addition to industries that see spinoff benefits from increased national heritage by providing them with a bit of assistance and tourism. incentive to see their own country. According to Industry Canada, almost 600,000 jobs in Canada are ● (1915) directly generated by tourism in every province and region of the [Translation] country. Having said all this, it would be unlike me not to discuss costs at If that is not specific enough, I encourage each member in this least a little bit. The deductions I propose in the Discover Your chamber to visit the Tourism Industry Association of Canada Canada Act are not extravagant. The deductions are also capped, and website, where a breakdown of tourism jobs per riding is available. 15314 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Private Members' Business I took examples from the ridings with the largest cities in the It has long been said that Canada has too much geography and not country. Tourism represents 4,905 jobs in Elmwood—Transcona, enough history. In 2017, Canada will have precisely 150 years of 5,460 jobs in Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, 9,445 jobs in Vancouver history behind it. Our nation's history is no longer in question, but South, 10,080 jobs in Calgary Centre, 11,150 jobs in Trinity— our geography remains both a source of pride and a challenge to our Spadina, and 11,170 jobs in Laurier—Saint-Marie in downtown nation's cohesiveness. Facts are facts: there is no inexpensive way Montreal. These are just a few examples. There is a list of all the for people to traverse such a massive country as Canada. As ridings across Canada. parliamentarians, we should recognize this reality and react accordingly. These are real jobs for real people in each and every one of our communities. We need to be cognizant of what stimulating this I have chosen 2017 for the coming into force of the bill, because I industry can mean to local economies and the national economy as a believe that for Canada's 150th birthday, we should give Canadians whole. The possible benefits are too big to ignore in my opinion. the greatest gift we could possibly give them: we should give them Canada. ● (1920) [English] The government will be investing all kinds of money in celebrating Canada's 150th anniversary, so I am asking the I could go on, but as I stated earlier, the bill is not about dollars government to think about offering Canadians a choice of where and cents. they choose to spend their money and not have the government decide for them. Since I introduced the bill back in November, what has struck me most of all is how much Canadians have rallied around this idea. We do not know how much money the government will put According to a Harris/Decima study released on November 7, 2012, towards the anniversary, but this investment is minimal. There will total support for the discover your Canada act stood at 70%, and it events across Canada, as I just stated. We should have Canadians enjoyed strong support throughout the country. plan today where they want to travel to get to know Canada much better so that they will not be watching the events on a TV screen For example, the Atlantic region registered 78% approval, Quebec because they cannot afford the trip. They will be able to watch and registered 68% approval, Ontario registered 69% approval, participate in these events, up close and in person. Saskatchewan and Manitoba registered 66% approval, Alberta registered 76% approval and British Columbia registered 74% We should remove some of the financial barriers that stop them approval. from exploring this great land and tell them to go out and discover your Canada, because one thing I have learned is that financial The same study showed that 39% of Canadians would be more incentives are one way to get people to change their behaviour. likely to consider travelling within Canada if the discover your Canada act were to become law, while only 5% would be less likely Thank you for your time, Mr. Speaker. I am open to questions. to consider travelling within Canada if the discover your Canada act were to become law, for a net gain of over 34%. ● (1925)

The same study also notes that the bill has the potential to address [Translation] Canada's growing international travel deficit, which grew by $91 Mr. François Lapointe (Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska million in the second quarter of 2012 alone. —Rivière-du-Loup, NDP): Mr. Speaker, there is something peculiar in my hon. colleague's choice not to submit this bill to Beyond the numbers, I have been humbled by messages of the Standing Committee on Finance. Eighty per cent of the study that support I have received from Canadians from all over the country we received from the Parliamentary Budget Officer has to do with who want to see the bill pass. One lady from Alberta wrote to tell me the bill's financial aspects. One billion dollars has been mentioned. that “Despite not being one of your constituents, I am writing to tell Although it is not this entire amount that would have an impact on you that I support your recent private member's bill, the discover the public purse, I have difficulty seeing how my colleague can your Canada act. I live in Alberta. However, I have strong ties to justify not referring a bill that could have such an impact on the Quebec through my maternal grandparents. In such a vast country as public purse to the Standing Committee on Finance, first and Canada, I would welcome this initiative in assisting my travel within foremost. our own borders. Canada has so much to offer”. Mr. Massimo Pacetti: Mr. Speaker, I started my speech by saying I cannot go on all day quoting letters and emails, but this is just that it had nothing to do with finance. I know that it will cost money one of several letters of support I received. They all have the same because it will be an initiative to get Canadians to travel. The more theme: a desire for us as Canadians and as parliamentarians to people travel, the more they will spend. implement this idea. My bill gives the example of someone who takes the bus across It is not because they want to save money or because they are three provinces. This is not going to take two or three hours. It will looking for a handout, but simply because they love their country take at least two or three days. Someone who takes the bus will stop and like the idea of more Canadians visiting more places within and spend money on food and drink. That traveller might even stop Canada to strengthen their bonds to this country and to each other, during the trip to sleep in a hotel, not on the bus, or go see the sights. especially when we have a travel deficit in this country. This bus trip might involve all kinds of expenses. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15315

Private Members' Business Another example is someone who travels by airplane. People [English] usually travel by airplane to go long distances. When you travel far, you spend money. I know that when I travel long distances, I stay in hotels for two or three nights. This bill is really just a novelty, a gimmicky distraction costing taxpayers over $200 million a year, without really encouraging All these analyses and all these costs are not in the Parliamentary tourism within Canada. While the member says his intent is to Budget Officer's figures. I find it unfortunate that the member did not promote tourism, not only is his ill-considered proposal unfair, but read that. The numbers are not in the billions of dollars; they are in there is absolutely no evidence it would have any effect whatsoever. the range of $10 million to $30 million, not to mention all the revenue that would go to the government. If I have crunched the numbers properly, when it comes to revenue, the bill's impact will be neutral. In fact, the Tourism Industry Association of Canada has already dismissed this Liberal idea as completely out of touch with the Ms. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP): Mr. challenges faced by the Canadian tourism sector, saying, “we don’t Speaker, I would like to know why my colleague chose the rule of think this is a particularly useful mechanism because Canada’s crossing at least three different provincial boundaries. I think that if challenge is not a lack of domestic travel”. Indeed, our challenge is you start out at the far end of the Northwest Territories, cross just one finding ways to compete in the international travel market. border and go to southern Saskatchewan, for example, you have travelled a fair distance. I just looked into purchasing airline tickets on the Air Canada site. In contrast, our government promotes travel in Canada by funding It costs more to fly from Toronto to Rouyn-Noranda, which is in my cost-effective programs and events proving that, unlike the Liberals, riding, than it does to fly from Toronto to Vancouver. There is no the Conservative government supports the tourism sector, while logic to the three provinces rule. It is quite commendable to want to safeguarding taxpayer dollars. travel to far-flung parts of the country, but that does not cover the three provinces rule. Let me start by briefly highlighting our government's role in I do not understand why the member chose three provinces. It puts supporting the tourism industry in Canada. some regions at a disadvantage. ● (1930) Mr. Massimo Pacetti: Mr. Speaker, that is a good question. This Canada's strong economic performance during the global bill is not perfect and will not affect air fares because we did not recession has been the envy of the world. While these initiatives work with the airlines. may not have always been the most talked about, Canada's economic action plan provided funding to several organizations to stimulate the The reason for the bill is to help Canadians get to know one growth of tourism during the global economic downturn and it another. What I have seen is that Canada is divided into three helped promote our country as a destination for Canadians and regions: eastern, central and western Canada. I would like Canadians visitors alike. to start travelling between the east and the west, passing through central Canada. That is the reason for choosing three provinces. During this time, economic action plan funding was provided to I do not want someone from Rouyn-Noranda to travel in Ontario, things like the National Trails Coalition, Parks Canada and its because that is easy to do. I know that the member is absolutely right National Historic Sites, the Canadian Tourism Commission for about the price of an airline ticket. However, I will leave that for greater domestic and international marketing and a grand total of 79 another bill at another time. Canadians have to start getting to know festivals and events through the marquee tourism events program. one another and discovering Canada. The only way to do that is to Our economic action plan also increased tourism-related infrastruc- get them to travel as far as possible in the regions. When I talk about ture through investments in everything from local parks to the regions, I am not talking about going from an urban area to a convention centres. rural area. I am talking about travelling to eastern, western and central Canada. That is how people can get to know one another. That is the reason for this bill. Furthermore, our government already supports programs to [English] discover Canada, programs geared to encourage Canadians to Mr. Bernard Trottier (Etobicoke—Lakeshore, CPC): Mr. explore what is happening culturally outside their own backyards. Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak to Bill C-463 brought forward by the Liberal member for Saint-Léonard— Saint-Michel. In particular, the Department of Canadian Heritage invests over [Translation] $105 million every year to provide almost 100,000 youth with opportunities to learn about their country and connect with one I know that the member for Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel is a another through its youth programs. I should add that these programs proud Canadian, and I commend his efforts to give Canadians the can benefit all Canadians, regardless of what region they live in, a opportunity to get to know their country better. point I will return to later in my speech. 15316 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Private Members' Business In addition, the government supports programs to foster Canadian represent a windfall, again an unfair tax advantage without actually identity for people of all ages such as celebrate Canada, which increasing tourism within Canada. encourages Canadians to come together in their communities to discover and appreciate the wealth and diversity of Canadian society Furthermore, the proposal only recognizes the cost of tickets for and understand the significance of the rich heritage Canadians all traveling by bus, train or air, not other major travel expenses, such as share. These types of measures and programs achieve two important lodging or car rentals, that may continue to be an obstacle for people results: they boost our economy and they promote tourism in to travel. Canada. Beyond what our government already does to boost tourism in Finally, as I have already mentioned, the cost of the proposal Canada, the bill before us today is fundamentally flawed. Providing would be significant. Preliminary estimates suggest that based on an income tax deduction for travel expenses of up to $2,000 for existing travel patterns and expenditures, the passage of Bill C-463 individuals and each of their dependants under the age of 16 raises would cost about $215 million a year. concerns about fairness. In a time of a certain fiscal restraint that we have now, it is not the Let me explain. time for a novelty Liberal subsidy, or as National Post columnist Under the proposal, only travel within Canada that crosses three Kelly McParland put it, “silly ways to spend even more borrowed provincial boundaries is eligible. Here is the first problem with that. money trying to manipulate Canadian behaviour, just like the old This requirement may disproportionately benefit some regions and days”. favour particular travel routes. Given the shorter distances between provinces in Atlantic Canada, less travel would be required to meet Our government has been working diligently to keep taxes low the eligibility criteria. and the economy strong in the face of turbulent economic challenges from across the world. Our economic action plan has delivered Furthermore, the three provincial boundaries rule would unques- results for Canadian families. We will stay the course. tionably favour particular routes. For example, travelling from Halifax to Toronto by train or bus would cross three provincial I would ask every member of the House to vote against the bill. It boundaries and qualify for tax relief, whereas air travel, assuming the is plainly not in the best interests of Canadians. flight uses U.S. airspace, might not qualify. The list of inequities continues. The value of the deduction would [Translation] depend on the mode of travel: 100% for travel by bus; 75% for travel Mr. François Lapointe (Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska by train; and 40% for travel by airplane. From the onset, this makes —Rivière-du-Loup, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has no sense. pointed out an inconsistency. Specific types of transportation were It bears repeating that the breakdown of how the deduction would chosen. Ferries are one example. be calculated makes no sense. Why should someone travelling by bus get a higher deduction than someone travelling by train or plane? I would like the member to expand on how this lack of reflection Why does it exclude travelling by car or even by boat? There is no causes certain problems— question this bizarre distinction is completely unfair. The Acting Speaker (Mr. Barry Devolin): I would remind the Not only that, but Bill C-463 would provide more tax relief to member that he has the floor to resume debate. higher-income individuals who tend to travel more and spend more on travel than lower-income families. Not only would higher-income The hon. member for Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska— individuals generally claim more, but the tax relief stemming from Rivière-du-Loup. the proposed deduction would also be higher for individuals who were in higher personal income tax brackets, which vary from 15% Mr. François Lapointe: Mr. Speaker, I am happy to have been to 29% federally. recognized to speak to this subject. ● (1935) The bill before us has the best of intentions, but the result is Our government has been very clear. We believe in tax fairness for questionable and rather inconsistent. Unfortunately, the NDP will not all Canadians. This discrimination alone is reason enough to vote be able to support this bill. I will take the time to summarize the bill against the bill, but there are many other reasons to vote against this so that those at home will understand what we are talking about. bill. On this side of the House, that is the government side, we believe This bill provides that taxpayers may deduct, from their taxable a law that is meant to encourage interprovincial travel should, at the income in a given year, the cost of purchasing tickets for the very least, encourage Canadians to travel. With respect to Bill taxpayer or a child or children of the taxpayer for non-business travel C-463, there is no evidence that the proposal would encourage that involves crossing at least three different provincial boundaries. individuals to travel more often, over $200 million a year with no The bill is designed to encourage Canadian taxpayers to travel within result. Not only that, but individuals who plan to travel anyway the country in order to increase domestic tourism by providing a would gain significant benefits from the deduction. It would maximum deduction of $2,000 a year from taxable income. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15317

Private Members' Business It is complex and yet it is not. Basically, people need to travel a lot credit. Once again, this bill favours the mode of transportation that and need to cross three borders. If they can prove that they were not causes the most pollution. It does not address this problem. travelling on business, they can get a non-refundable deduction of up ● (1940) to $2,000. We can imagine another ridiculous scenario that the bill does not The NDP has found six major flaws in this bill. cover. Imagine that a family crosses three borders. Family members leave Quebec, go to New Brunswick and want to go to Prince This bill is fiscally irresponsible. It would allow for up to $1 Edward Island. One of the children tells his father that he wants to go billion in tax deductions, but this measure would directly cost $110 to PEI by ferry. However, the tax credit does not apply to ferries. The million. A little earlier, I heard my hon. colleague say that if people father will have to apologize to his child and tell him that they will travel, they will spend more money, but that principle does not apply not be able to go to PEI because the method of transportation for here, especially in light of the current situation with the tourism getting there is not covered by the tax deductions for non-business, industry. family travel. This bill has all sorts of problems like this one. Tourism within Canada is being squeezed dry. Domestic travel The asymmetry of the provinces, which is specific to Canada, is accounts for a majority of the travel in the country and this another factor that is completely unfair to the western provinces. I proportion continues to increase. There is no reason to believe that can cross three provinces and get a tax credit by going to spend a creating more travel in an industry that has already been squeezed weekend with my family in the Maritimes, since I live in eastern dry would suddenly create enough economic activity to compensate Quebec. It would be impossible for someone who lives in British for the $110 million. Columbia to even think about getting a tax credit for making a short The Canadian Tourism Commission is asking for about $110 weekend trip by train when he has two or three days off. It is not fair million to create a real international marketing program. The tourism to the western provinces. The bill does not address this problem. The industry is always lamenting the fact that we do not have enough bill does not address the tourism industry's main problem. foreign tourism. Canada's tourism industry is already struggling to The tourism industry is calling for more international tourism. stay afloat with domestic travel. Domestic tourism is being squeezed dry. Canadians are doing all There will surely be cases of fraud. How can someone prove that they can right now. There is a lack of marketing to ensure that they travelled for work but stayed a few days at the destination to domestic tourism stays the same and even continues to grow and to visit the beach or do some shopping? How do they sort that out come convince hundreds of thousands of new international travellers to tax time? It does not appear as though that aspect of this bill was come to Canada. thought through. With the emergence of BRIC, more and more people are Consider the increased amount of paperwork if, for example, the travelling. They have money and we are not reaching out to claim government has to contact a taxpayer or a business if there is any our portion of it. That is the real problem. If this bill is passed, doubt that travel or an application for a tax refund was associated $110 million will be invested, but it will not be invested in solving with business travel instead of leisure travel. How would we manage the tourism industry's real problem. that? The bill does not address that problem. We would like to ensure that agreements with the provinces and The other important point is that this is a regressive policy. Only municipalities result in affordable infrastructure, so that low-income families that are well off can spend thousands of dollars on families can afford train tickets and go on a trip. That is our goal. We transportation costs. The study we received showed that 70% of the would also like to see the tourism industry finally gain increased tax benefits associated with this bill will go to families that earn a revenues from international tourism. minimum of $50,000. We want to share Canada and get Canadians None of these solutions and priorities are part of the bill. We to travel. However, we must help the lower-income families who cannot support a bill so badly put together. It is not right to introduce will never be able to see Vancouver, not the well-off families who a bill and expect a committee to fix it. could afford a trip to Vancouver regardless. What about families who travel by car? What about families who This bill does nothing to address the fact that it is not easy to travel in two provinces by train, then take a ferry to a third province? travel within Canada. One of the major problems with the tourism Do they suddenly stop being eligible for the tax credit? What if a industry is that transportation services are irregular and inadequate. man goes on a business trip with his family tagging along, and they For example, train service out east between Montreal and the vacation together for seven or eight days? Should they report that Maritimes was recently reduced by 50%. Providing a credit on a they were travelling for business or for pleasure? service that is no longer available is like the chicken and the egg. This bill has it backwards. First we must ensure that our Such a convoluted and unmanageable solution is not acceptable. infrastructure can provide adequate service. Some people think that if a bill is flawed, it can just be sent to committee to be fixed up. Another point concerns the harmful effects of greenhouse gases. For the same reason that those who are well off will be more likely to However, when a bill creates more problems than it solves, there be able to cross three borders—since that is what the bill requires— is no way we can support it at second reading and send it to they will also be more likely to travel by plane to claim this tax committee. 15318 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Private Members' Business Sadly, that is the position New Democrats find themselves in Last December Mr. Goldstein told The Globe and Mail the today. The bill was poorly conceived and poorly drafted. It would be Conservative cuts are hurting the sector. costly and difficult to implement, and it would not solve the problems facing Canada's tourism industry. While other countries are making tourism a priority and investing in marketing to attract international visitors, Canada lags behind. ● (1945) Australia, for instance, outspends Canada by three to one in terms of [English] tourism marketing dollars, yet according to the Canadian Tourism Hon. Scott Brison (Kings—Hants, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, it is with Commission every dollar invested in direct advertising is actually pleasure that I rise today to speak to Bill C-463, the discover your earned back 37 times over. Canada act. I want to thank my colleague from Saint-Léonard— Saint-Michel for introducing this legislation and for giving the The Canadian Chamber of Commerce has also asked the House an opportunity to discuss the importance of our tourism sector government to make tourism a priority. In a recent report on and to address Canada's travel deficit. tackling the top 10 barriers to competitiveness, the chamber identified uncompetitive travel and tourism strategies as one of the The goal of the bill is to make it easier for Canadians to travel most serious barriers to success in the Canadian economy. That within their own country. It would amend the Income Tax Act and report cited that tourism is a major industry in every reach of the create a tax credit of up to $2,000 for Canadian taxpayers who cross country, but it is struggling. at least three provincial or territorial borders on personal travel. This credit would help reduce the cost of holiday transportation by Instead of damaging the sector's ability to market itself abroad, the covering eligible travel expenses. Taxpayers would be able to claim government should recognize the risks associated with Canada's the amount not only for their own expenses but also for their travel deficit and reverse these cuts to our tourism sector. We need a children. This would provide much needed support for Canada's real tourism strategy and this legislation could be part of that. Bill tourism sector. C-463 gives the House the opportunity to help reduce our travel deficit by encouraging more Canadians to discover their country and According to the Tourism Industry Association of Canada, this spend their tourism dollars here at home. Canadians are onside. sector represents more of Canada's GDP than the agriculture, According to Harris/Decima, a public survey conducted last fall forestry and fisheries combined. It generates $78.8 billion of showed 70% of Canadians support the idea of a tax credit for travel economic activity annually. It is responsible for more than $15.9 within Canada. billion of export revenue despite this growing travel deficit. It ● (1950) generates $10 billion in federal government revenue and fosters over 600,000 jobs across the country. It is not just about dollars and cents and business. It is about national unity and the reality that encouraging more Canadians to Tourism plays an important role in the economy in my riding in travel within our country and to understand regions within our Nova Scotia. People come to Kings—Hants from all over the country is important. country and all over the world to marvel at the world's highest tides, to come to the beautiful Annapolis Valley, to come to Windsor, the I have heard some of my colleagues from both the Conservative birthplace of hockey, and also to enjoy our growing food and wine Party and the New Democratic Party speak to the bill. I can accept industries. that perhaps they can identify a design flaw or a problem that could be addressed at committee. However, the reality is that the intention Many of us in the House represent Canadians who make a living of the bill is sound. The direction of the bill makes sense. Canadians in the tourism sector. We know how vital this sector is to the want to find more ways to support their ability to travel within Canadian economy. We also know how worried participants in this Canada. sector are about the future of this industry and the growing travel deficit. I would urge members from all parties to support the legislation and to send it to committee. If there are technical design flaws that There is a gap between how much money Canadian tourists are could be addressed at committee, that is fine. We are open to that. spending abroad and how much money international tourists are My colleague is open to that. However, we need to send it to spending here in Canada. This gap is growing, and the government committee in order to have a broader discussion on how we can used budget 2012 not to address it but to slash support for tourism in strengthen tourism in Canada and, more fundamentally, how we can Canada. By cutting the Canadian Tourism Commission's budget by unite the country by giving more Canadian families the opportunity $14.2 million each and every year, the government is cutting the and the incentive to travel within Canada. commission's ability to promote Canada abroad and to attract international tourists to Canada. I heard my Conservative colleagues say earlier tonight that it would complicate the tax system by providing an incentive for David Goldstein, president of the Tourism Industry Association of somebody to do something. My goodness gracious, the Conserva- Canada said: tives have grown the tax code by one-sixth since coming to power, The travel deficit has widened dramatically since 2002.... We used to be the with tax incentives for almost everything. The reality is that they seventh in the world in 2007 when it came to international arrivals. We are now the 18th. We used to have 20 million international visitors in 2002 and now have 16 have done that because people like a tax incentive to pursue one million.... behaviour or another. The reality is that travel within our own The fact that we are now contributing almost a third to Canada’s trade deficit is country is a meritorious and positive economic activity, but it is also somewhat shocking.... good for national unity. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15319

Private Members' Business Why would we not support any initiative that would enable organizations and associations, as well as departments and agencies Canadian families to spend more time within their country and spend at all three levels of government. more of their money in other regions of the country? What a boon to national unity. I was born in 1967. A few months before I was born, my parents In 2011, tourism accounted for approximately 2%, or $31.1 were at Expo 67. Now I cannot say that their trip to Montreal that billion, of Canada's gross domestic product, some $78.7 billion in summer was totally responsible for what happened, but how many revenues, over 600,000 direct jobs and 3.5% of total employment in Canadians, in 1967, went to Montreal as part of Expo 67? At what Canada. Tourism-related businesses often work with destination point in our nation's history were we as united as a country as we marketing organizations, which exist at the municipal, regional, were when families from across the country went to Montreal in provincial and national levels. These organizations promote devel- 1967? opment and market Canada's various tourism destinations and experiences. I am not saying that this private member's bill would achieve the same level of national unity that Expo 67 did, but it is a start. It is a beginning. It is a recommencement of that spirit of voyageur that unites Canadians so that we will travel to other parts of our country Through various agencies, the three levels of government directly and we will experience other cultures. God knows how many more run many of Canada's most important tourism attractions, including parliamentarians would be born as a result of that. parks, museums, sports stadiums and convention centres. Govern- ments also establish policy and legislative frameworks and I want to tell members that I am proud to be voting for and administrative practices that support and affect how our tourism supporting Bill C-463 because I want it to be sent to committee. I businesses operate. want it to be studied. I want all parties to be able to contribute to shaping a national tourism strategy, the genesis of which might just be part of this legislation. The diversified nature of the tourism sector makes it critical that I think if there is a concern about eligibility, if there is a concern all partners find ways to collaborate to build world-class destinations about progressivity and about how we could ensure that low-income that offer first-class services and uniquely Canadian experiences. In people would benefit from this, let us address it. Perhaps if we would the fall of 2011, after consulting with the men and women who help ensure it is fully refundable, that would address the concerns, for to make Canada such a great place to visit, it became very clear that instance, for low-income Canadians. Certainly the tax credits offered a new federal tourism strategy was needed to help position Canada's by the government for disability tax credits, caregiver tax credits, tourism sector for long-term growth and global competitiveness. firefighter tax credits, all these different tax credits, have been non- refundable. I do not support that. I believe full refundability makes sense in order for this to be progressive. The strategy focused on four priorities. The first was to increase Whatever the issues that exist, they could be addressed at awareness of Canada as a premier tourist destination. Second was to committee. However, it is important that we support this piece of facilitate the ease of access and movement for travellers. Third is legislation, that we send it to committee so we can have a fulsome encouraging product development and investments in Canadian debate on how to move Canada's tourism industry forward and also tourism assets and products. Fourth is fostering an adequate supply how we could unite this country around the majesty and the beauty of skills and labour to enhance visitor experiences through quality of her geography. service and great hospitality. ● (1955) Mrs. Tilly O'Neill Gordon (Miramichi, CPC): Mr. Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to speak about Bill C-463, which is Canada's tourism industry has expressed support for the four sponsored by the MP for Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel. Before I get priority areas and recent federal actions to foster tourism, including into the details of the bill, I would like to begin today by taking a few investments in tourism, infrastructure and marketing, through moments to speak about the important contributions tourism makes Canada's economic action plan and the signing of an approved to our economy in every region of our great country. destination status agreement with China. Each year, millions of visitors from around the world and from across Canada travel our great country to discover its many natural and man-made wonders. The industry that serves those people is an In 2008 to 2009, during the global economic crisis, we invested important part of our economy. Indeed, thousands of Canadians rely more than $530 million in direct support for the tourism sector. This on tourism for their jobs and livelihoods. included more than $360 million in product development and tourism infrastructure, such as convention centres, and $113 million While large hotel chains, airlines and tour operators are important, in tourism marketing. An additional $782 million was spent, largely about 98% of Canada's tourism sector consists of small and medium- on artistic, cultural and sports-related activities that have an indirect sized businesses, such as lodges, wineries and spas. As such, it is impact on tourism. We also made significant infrastructure mostly made up of thousands of private sectors and not-for-profit investments in roads and bridges in support of this industry. 15320 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Private Members' Business ● (2000) mention as this debate progresses that our government opposes Bill C-463. In addition to this ongoing support, Canada's economic action plan provided economic stimulus to the visitor economy through direct funding from our key tourism events, national parks, cruise ● (2005) infrastructure and marketing. Under the plan, we also invested billions of dollars in transportation and community infrastructure and [Translation] in economic development that will provide enduring benefits to the sector. These actions supported the tourism industry through the The Acting Speaker (Mr. Barry Devolin): Resuming debate. economic downturn, and the sector continues to be resilient in the face of today's frequently volatile environment. This evening, the hon. member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue will Given these strengths, we do not believe the proposed amend- have five minutes. ments to the Income Tax Act would be necessary. Although Bill C-463 would be intended to encourage Canadians to discover Canada by recognizing the costs of travel involving the crossing of at Ms. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP): Mr. least three provincial boundaries, it is unclear whether and to what Speaker, that is too bad because I have a lot to say. extent the proposal would motivate individuals to travel more, or to change their travel plans to take advantage of the tax deduction. Bill C-463 seeks to amend the Income Tax Act to give taxpayers a Moreover, the proposal would have a number of deficiencies and deduction for the expense of purchasing tickets for themselves and would raise a number of equity and fairness concerns. In particular, it their children for leisure travel by airplane, train or bus if the travel would recognize only the costs of tickets for travelling by bus, train involves crossing at least three different provinces. We understand or air. Other travel expenses, such as lodging, which may be that the hon. member is trying to encourage Canadians to travel significant for travel outside an individual's home province, may within Canada and to discover other regions. This intention to well present a deterrent for people who might otherwise take promote travel within Canada and to have people discover other advantage of the proposed deduction. This deficiency would likely provinces that they might not otherwise is good. create pressure to extend tax relief to travel expenses that are not eligible under this proposal. Such extended tax relief would come at a significant fiscal cost. The deduction would provide significant However, is this the right solution? Absolutely not. I would say benefits to those who would have incurred eligible travel expenses in this is a flop. First, this bill targets people who already travel within any case. As such, it would represent a windfall gain to these Canada or who are likely to do so. For many Canadian families who individuals without increasing tourism. are already struggling to make ends meet, this measure will not make much of a difference. In my riding, families tell me they would like The proposed deduction would apply only for airplane, train or to come see me in Ottawa, but they do not have the money to get bus transportation. It would not apply to travel by other modes of here. transportation, such as motor vehicle or boat, which may favour certain urban centres or regions over others. The bill would also stipulate that the percentage that could be deducted from income In this bill, they are being asked to travel through three different would vary, depending on the mode of transportation: 100% for provinces. That makes absolutely no sense. Families who are travel by bus; 75% for travel by train; and 40% for travel by airplane. struggling financially are not going to discover Canada. This There is no policy rationale for why particular modes of measure does not help them one bit because it is a non-refundable transportation should be provided different tax treatment. Those tax credit. In order to benefit from it, one has to pay taxes. Families travelling by air or train would view the measure as unfair, and with a very low incomes will never be entitled to this credit, so this is rightly so. of no use to them. In addition, the proposed measure would likely provide more tax relief to higher-income individuals, for two reasons. First, the It is very clear that only well-off families would benefit from this deduction would apply to discretionary travel expenses that are bill. If you are poor, you will not travel across Canada, but if you are typically incurred by higher-income individuals. Second, the value rich and you can afford it, the government will help you visit of the proposed deduction would be greater for individuals who are Canada. This makes absolutely no sense to me and it is not the right in higher personal income tax brackets. approach to presenting a bill. To conclude, the bill would be inconsistent with existing tax policy, which generally does not allow taxpayers to deduct personal Let me focus for a minute on people living in Quebec and Ontario. expenses and could entail significant costs. Indeed, implementing The bill talks about crossing three borders, which means going to this deduction could cost about $215 million annually in foregone four different provinces. We estimated the distances involved using federal revenue, starting in 2017. It would also entail a cost for the Google maps. I used as an example someone living in my riding, in provinces that use the federal definition of “taxable income”, in other the city of Rouyn-Noranda near the Ontario border. In order to words, all provinces except Quebec. It is unclear to what degree the qualify for the tax credit, that person would have to travel at least proposal would induce individuals to travel more or to change their 2,300 km. However, someone living in B.C. or Alberta would only travel plans. For all these reasons, and others, my colleagues will need to travel 1,500 km. The province of origin creates inequalities. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15321

Private Members' Business Things get even worse for people from Whitehorse, Yellowknife Last fall, the federal government and the Newfoundland and and Nunavut: since they are travelling south, crossing three borders Labrador and Nova Scotia governments reached agreement on the becomes a near-impossible feat. The distances involved are truly terms and conditions for this federal loan guarantee. The first thing I vast. Obviously, it does not make much sense to base a tax credit on would like to say is that given that this agreement has been reached, I a requirement to cross three borders. am not so sure it is so important for the House to be considering this motion. It feels a little too much like a pat on the back for the One only has to look at a map of Canada to see that the three- government of the day. In my opinion, it is a lost opportunity to border rule is illogical, given the sheer size of our country and the make good use of the time in the House not only for the good of way it is divided, with huge territories and smaller provinces. Logic northern Ontario but for all of Canada. alone shows that the bill would be very difficult to implement, and that it would create inequality between provinces. I am a little surprised that if the government wished to discuss this Second, it is true that travelling can be a hassle. It is important to issue, no Conservative members from Atlantic Canada sponsored note that Canada's domestic transportation networks are not ideal. this motion. A member from northern Ontario had to use a precious Transportation services are lacking and often costly for Canadian northern Ontario spot for private members' business to address an families, and even for tourists. For example, the Northlander, which Atlantic Canada issue. Nevertheless, the motion is what it is. recently shut down, serviced northern Ontario communities as well as communities adjoining my riding. Obviously, rail service is a Let me say that we in the Liberal Party support the principle of provincial responsibility; nevertheless. there used to be a train where federal loan guarantees for regional resource development projects, now there is none. assuming that due consideration has been given to the concerns of aboriginal peoples, environmental concerns, and the economic Often, passengers who take the bus are looking to head in a impact and viability of the projects. Therefore, we will be supporting specific direction. That said, the fact that there are no buses that run this motion. from one end of Ontario to the other makes no environmental sense. One has to get to Montreal first and then cross Ontario before heading north. The bus routes make no sense. What is more, the tax [Translation] credit does not apply to cars. People have to make a few detours in order to qualify for the tax credit. That makes absolutely no sense. The Liberal Party is in favour of loan guarantees for such projects We are penalizing those who live in remote places where trains and and other provincial resource development projects. That is why we buses are scarce. We are forcing them to make a bunch of detours in support the motion. I feel the need to emphasize, however, that the order to qualify for the tax credit. Conservative government needs to let the other provinces and territories know whether or not it intends to extend similar ● (2010) guarantees for their large-scale clean energy projects and whether This penalizes people who live close to a transit line, in areas or not it intends to establish a national framework to that end. regularly serviced by public transit. [English] [English]

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Barry Devolin): The time provided for There are other possible projects in the region, in fact, for which consideration of this item of private members' business has now we might consider loan guarantees, such as bringing power from expired, and the order is dropped to the bottom of the order of Quebec into Atlantic Canada or bringing power to Prince Edward precedence on the order paper. Island, where electricity rates are very high. These are the other sorts Pursuant to Standing Order 37, the House will now proceed to the of natural resource projects, which are important in a regional sense, consideration of Motion No. 412 under private members' business. that we should be thinking about in the future for federal loan guarantees. I would hope the government would consider setting up *** a framework, something bigger than just a loan guarantee for one project, such as the one we are considering today. ● (2015)

HYDROELECTRIC PROJECT While we support the motion because we support its intent, we do The House resumed from January 31 consideration of the motion, not agree with some of the premises of the motion. We wish to point and of the amendment. out that the reality of the situation is not as sunny as the motion Mr. Ted Hsu (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would have Canadians believe. I believe that the less spin we have, am pleased to have this opportunity today to speak to Motion No. especially here in Ottawa, and the more reality, the better it is for 412 on the federal loan guarantee for the Lower Churchill Canada. hydroelectric project. The intent of this motion is to express support for using the federal government's sovereign credit rating to lower I would like to expand on that point. We agree that electricity the financing costs for regionally significant natural resource generation from these hydroelectric projects will displace the old oil- development projects. In this particular case, it is addressing the burning Holyrood thermal generating station. We understand that financing of the Lower Churchill hydroelectric projects in Labrador jobs will be created in the construction of this project and that a and in the maritime provinces. stable electricity supply will be available for industry and for export. 15322 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Private Members' Business ● (2020) I wish to conclude simply by saying that I support the motion. I hope that it will lead to a much larger discussion. However, the reality is not as sunny as the motion implies, because for one, electricity rates will go up. Ratepayers in Mr. Mike Allen (Tobique—Mactaquac, CPC): Mr. Speaker, it is Newfoundland and Nova Scotia will be on the hook for the cost great to have the opportunity to speak to the motion, M-412, brought of these projects and for possible cost overruns. The federal by my colleague from Nipissing—Timiskaming. government is not on the hook for cost overruns; ratepayers are. Yes, jobs will be created by the project, but there will also be a drag on We have a process in the House of Commons called an order of the economy from higher electricity costs. The picture is only partly precedence. The last speaker talked about why someone from sunny. Atlantic Canada was not bringing this to the table. I would love to have brought this to the table, but I am number 231 on the order of The Labrador Inuit and the Labrador Métis feel that they have precedence. I doubt in this four-year time arising that I will ever get a been left out and were not properly consulted. They feel left out of chance to bring a private member's bill to debate in the House. the benefits of the project. The Innu nations support the project and have signed agreements. Again, the situation is really only partly I appreciate the member bringing forward this motion because it is sunny. important to Atlantic Canada and important to all of Canada, when we talk about the economy and the jobs that it would create. There is To reiterate, it is important to bring out the complexities of any no question in my mind that this is a key project for Atlantic Canada. issue so that we talk more about reality in the House and less about It is a key project when it comes to clean, renewable energy. That is spin. Environmental groups have launched a court challenge over the why the governments of Canada, Newfoundland and Labrador, and Lower Churchill project. Large-scale hydroelectric generation Nova Scotia announced in 2012 that we had reached an agreement involves flooding, and that means damage to a watershed and on the terms for the federal loan guarantee. damage to habitat. The Red Wine caribou herd is affected. There is also potential mercury poisoning from the release of naturally occurring mercury when flooding occurs. As the Prime Minister said, the agreement represents a promise made and a promise kept. That is exactly what that is, and I am Hydroelectric resources, if developed sustainably, environmen- proud that we kept our word to the people of Newfoundland and tally, economically and socially, can be a great resource. In this case, Labrador that we would do this. it would be to the benefit of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. Last summer, we had a chance to be in Labrador for our Atlantic caucus meetings, and it was tremendous to fly over the site where the The Liberals support the federal loan guarantee for the Lower development will take place. What was even more important and Churchill falls hydroelectric project. Liberals support the principle of interesting was that, as we flew over the town, we watched the loan guarantees, assuming that due consideration has been given to development of the housing. What is going on in Labrador is the concerns of aboriginal peoples, to environmental concerns and to incredible, not only with this project but the tremendous develop- the overall economic impact and viability of the project. ment and mining potential and export business for Newfoundland. Newfoundland and Labrador is booming. However, large projects can affect entire regions, as this one does. We know that benefits can be uneven. There is some controversy. The motion is important because there are four key elements. Not everybody is in agreement. We have to acknowledge that, even First, it is an important part of a clean energy agenda. It is an as we express our support for the loan guarantee. Provinces can have economically viable project that would create thousands of jobs and disputes. economic growth. It would be significant to the Atlantic region, which would benefit from a stable and sustainable electricity source Canada, with its great geographic diversity, could benefit from the for decades to come. government thinking a lot larger than just one project. Canada would benefit if its federal and provincial governments thought about a pan-Canadian energy strategy. This set of hydroelectric projects I will talk a little bit about that because my colleague across the really illustrates how a lot of different provinces—Newfoundland way mentioned the pricing. This project would provide stable and Labrador, Nova Scotia, Quebec and so on—are affected by a pricing, because when we look at the alternatives, such as the oil single project. In this sense, it is too bad this motion addresses only station at Holyrood, the price will only go up. It is also the Lower Churchill hydroelectric project. environmentally friendly with substantial greenhouse gas emission reductions. We support the motion, but this is an opportunity we could have taken to discuss a much grander vision to link the energy and The first point I will deal with is the economic benefit. This economic futures of the different provinces and the diverse regions project would create 8,600 person-years of direct employment. of Canada as we work together toward a shared future of prosperity Almost 3,000 people would be working on the project at peak and sustainability. I would ask that the government think about this employment times, and it would have a Canada-wide employment of and perhaps have a bigger and longer-term vision for the country's 47,800 person-years. That is Canada-wide employment, and Canada- economic future and the future of using its natural resources for the wide income to business and labour would be $3.5 billion on this most benefit for all of its people, provinces and diverse regions. project. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15323

Private Members' Business This is continuing a tradition of significant projects. We only have tremendous number of Newfoundland and Labradorians who are to look at the Churchill Falls project, which started in 1967. At the actually in Fort McMurray now. time it was the largest civil engineering project ever undertaken in North America, with 300 metres underground. I do not know if any An hon. member: The biggest city in Newfoundland. of my colleagues in the House have been to Churchill Falls, but it is impressive. It is impressive to go down 300 metres underground. Mr. Mike Allen: It's the biggest city in Newfoundland, exactly. People with heart devices are not allowed to go down there because With that in mind, projects like this allow an opportunity for our of all the generators. Their heart devices would shut off. folks to come back. That is a tremendous opportunity for alleviating some of the strain on families and the challenges that the strain The system that they have to feed the power is just tremendous. presents. We visited the project a few years ago with the natural resources committee and I was duly impressed. At the time it was the third I have always said that folks are not going to come back for one or largest hydro station in terms of capacity in North America, almost two years, but if there is a project that is going to take five or six 5,400 megawatts. years to build, and then hundreds of jobs are available in each of these stations over 30, 40 or 50 years, that represents long-term, This project is another great development for Newfoundland and stable employment in the region and a great opportunity for folks to Labrador. The $6.2-billion project that we are talking about involves actually come back to the area. the development of the Lower Churchill. It involves the lines to connect to the mainland and, as well, the line to connect to Nova As I was indicating before, with the budget bringing in Scotia. implementation to develop the skilled trades that are going to be ● (2025) so needed for all these different projects, this is a tremendous opportunity and lays the groundwork for some of the key work that This maritime link that is going to bring this power into Nova is going to have to be done in the years to come. Scotia is going to be important in Nova Scotia's long-term plans to lower their greenhouse gases because, as we know, in Atlantic I want to conclude by saying that Motion No. 412 clearly sets out Canada there is a tremendous reliance on fossil fuel. the many benefits of this Lower Churchill hydro development. I New Brunswick has coal-fired power. I know my friend from prefer to look at this as the glass being half full. It not only offers Nova Scotia is in the House here today, and he knows the tremendous opportunities to the many folks who are out west, but it tremendous reliance in Nova Scotia on coal-fired power. This also offers tremendous opportunities to the untapped potential of our represents a tremendous opportunity in terms of lowering green- first nations communities to participate in this in terms of house gas emissions. employment and working with the governments to actually benefit the first nation communities. I will just go to Holyrood for a minute. This is going to allow Newfoundland to retire the Holyrood station. It burns somewhere in With projects like the Lower Churchill and other hydro the order of 6,000 barrels a day for every unit at the Holyrood developments in Manitoba, Quebec, and British Columbia, we are station. It goes through 250,000 litres a minute of seawater, and a strong leader in the efforts worldwide to expand the use of hydro 90,000 litres per day of fresh water. power as a way to reduce global greenhouse emissions. In fact, as members would know, Canada is the third-largest producer of hydro Let us just imagine 90,000 litres a day of fresh water. I know all power. my colleagues in the House appreciate the water resource that we have. Using the water resource to generate electricity as opposed to We have an opportunity here to benefit the Atlantic region. We using it for cooling and everything else that we need it for is a have an opportunity for all this power potentially being developed tremendous benefit to the region and to the environment. We cannot and going all through New Brunswick as a corridor, right down into talk just about emissions on this issue. the U.S., which is actually now starving for renewable power.

As well, retiring the Holyrood station will make the Newfound- This is a tremendous motion for this House to get behind, because land system 98% carbon free, eliminating 96 million tons of it helps the whole region. It helps Canada. I really want to thank the emissions. These are great stats, great metrics on a project that is member for Nipissing—Timiskaming for bringing this forward to going to mean a lot to Newfoundland and Labrador and also to Nova the House. It was a great job. I encourage all members to support it. Scotia. ● (2030) What this does is start the development. It is the first station, 824 megawatts. Potentially, the next one could be 2,500 megawatts. Mr. Robert Chisholm (Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NDP): Mr. When we look at these benefits and reflect on the recent budget of Speaker, as the member before me, I too am pleased to speak on the this past week, the thing we think about is the number of jobs that motion. I thank the member for Nipissing—Timiskaming for are going to be created and the specific jobs that will be created in bringing this motion forward. The federal guarantee is important trades. for the Atlantic region and, frankly, for Canada. The other great thing about this what we will call a bit of a social I will make a couple of points and then focus on the benefits for aspect. The folks who are in Fort McMurray realize that there is a Nova Scotia, the province I am from. 15324 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Private Members' Business First, we support the federal government loan guarantee for the It is important to recognize not only is this meant to replace or Lower Churchill project and we have since the 2006 election. Our greatly lessen the reliance on hydrocarbon-producing coal-burning leader at the time, in 2011, Jack Layton, wrote to the governments of plants, but it would also establish a dependable price that Nova Newfoundland and Nova Scotia indicating he would do what he Scotians have not seen for a period of 35 years. I just heard Liberal could to work with the federal government, whomever that would be Party representatives say that ratepayers are going to be paying the at the end of the 2011 election, in order to make sure this loan cost, but ratepayers are paying the cost right now of a dependency on guarantee went forward. coal and bunker C. They are paying it right up the nose and they are paying it every day on their bills. Second, the project offers extensive environmental benefits. We believe that the federal government must play a role in facilitating This was a courageous decision by the government of Nova the transition in a way that is fair to all provinces, and I will talk a bit Scotia, along with the government of Newfoundland and Labrador, more about that as it relates to Nova Scotia. to begin to actually do something about establishing some stability in rates for ratepayers, while at the same time to deal, and again in a The third and final message is that New Democrats believe the courageous fashion, with environmental and health concerns by the federal government should be taking a leadership role in supporting burning and production carbon. renewable energy and interprovincial co-operation across the board. We would like to see the federal government be more assertive and There continues to be naysayers in the province of Nova Scotia take seriously its constitutional role in developing equity and support and across the country. This deal has been supported by the federal across this country. We believe it could be doing much more, and government. It was the right decision to make for not only taxpayers this is an example of a type of project. Some would suggest this is a in Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador but for all nation-building project that would benefit the Atlantic region and Canadians. this is the kind of thing that should be going forward across the country. Provinces like Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia need to make strides to end their dependence on coal-burning power Nova Scotians have lived for decades now with a dependence on plants. The provinces do not seem to recognize the fact that the either coal or bunker C, and they have seen world market prices world has a serious climate change problem and Canada has to do its continue to go through the roof. At the same time, there is part. One way for Canada to do its part is to deal with how it gets its environmental damage that is caused as a result of burning coal, electricity. For Canada's economy, for the economy of the Atlantic which is surely known by all members here. The economic damage, region, it just simply makes sense. let alone the environmental and health damage of burning coal, is something we know we have to do something about. The Province Right now Nova Scotia is at the end of the power grid, or at the of Nova Scotia, along with the Province of Newfoundland and end of the line. We can only receive power from one end, and there Labrador, has reached an agreement which goes a considerable have been problems in negotiating prices both on the world market distance to accomplishing this. and with our neighbours because of that dependence. Now we are going to be in the middle of the loop, between Newfoundland and Back in April 2010, the Government of Nova Scotia released the Labrador, between Muskrat Falls and Quebec. We are going to renewable electricity plan. In addition to the commitment of having ensure that we negotiate the best deal for Nova Scotia ratepayers. We renewables provide 25% of all electricity by 2015, the plan specified are going to continue to deal with our neighbours in Atlantic Canada. a new goal of 40% renewable electricity by 2020. We are going to continue to deal with Quebec. Nova Scotia buys At that time, the government of the day saw three ways to do that: power from Hydro-Québec and it will continue to do that. It is one was with more intermittent sources, such as wind, complemen- another source within a range of sources. ted by natural gas; two was hydroelectric energy from Lower Churchill; and three was more clean energy imported by neighbour- However, this guarantee allows us to ultimately stand up for ing provinces. ourselves, to develop a source of power generation in Atlantic Canada that benefits Atlantic Canadians. It allows us to stand on our A number of months later, the Province of Nova Scotia signed an own two feet, to continue to develop our economies and contribute agreement, along with Emera Energy and Alcor Energy, and with the to the country as Canadians would expect us to do. involvement of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. In return for bearing 20% of the cost of building the hydro facility and I want to again thank the member opposite for bringing this associated transmission facilities between Newfoundland and important motion forward. Labrador, Nova Scotia ratepayers would receive 20% of the energy ● (2040) from Muskrat Falls for 35 years. This would be supplemented by what they referred to as a “supplemental block”, which would [Translation] provide another proportion of energy for the first five years of the Mr. Guy Caron (Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Bas- agreement. ques, NDP): Mr. Speaker, it is pleasure to rise in the House to speak ● (2035) to this motion. Just like my colleague from Kingston and the Islands, I have to wonder why we absolutely had to debate this motion now, In addition to the base and supplemental blocks, Nova Scotia given that the government has already announced its decision to Power would be able to purchase additional hydroelectric energy extend a loan guarantee to the Muskrat Falls project in Newfound- from Alcor at market rates. land and Labrador. I have to wonder about that. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15325

Private Members' Business Our position on this issue has been known for a long time. We either Newfoundland or Nova Scotia. That is a minimum because the stated it during the campaign. Our leader at the time, Jack Layton, percentage will increase over time since there will be greater publicly voiced our support for loan guarantees, under certain domestic demand. This will mean that there will be less electricity conditions, one of which being that such guarantees be extended available for export, possibly to the United States. One thing is equally to all provinces for the purpose of promoting renewable certain: by virtue of the agreement, Nova Scotia will always have energy. 20% of the hydroelectric production. I would like to talk about what the Newfoundland and Labrador agreement is not. The agreement is not a loan from the federal What reasons are there to support this project other than the fact government. The agreement is not a subsidy from the federal that it is beneficial for Newfoundland and Nova Scotia? There are government for Newfoundland and Labrador. The agreement is not also environmental reasons. This project will make it possible to funding for the project. It is a loan guarantee. Newfoundland and decrease dependence, particularly Nova Scotia's dependence, on Labrador and Nova Scotia, which is a partner in the agreement, will coal-fired plants, which emit a lot of greenhouse gases. This will finance the hydroelectric project. The federal government will make it possible to eliminate or greatly reduce the production of four simply provide a loan guarantee, which is similar to what happens coal-fired plants in Nova Scotia. when we apply to a bank for a loan and ask another party to provide a guarantee for that loan. That is all that will result from the federal ● (2045) government's announcement. We have to be clear that the federal government is not committing I am talking about the plants in Lingan, Point Aconi, Point Tupper any funds. Taxpayers' money will not go to this project unless—and and Trenton. There is also a plant in Tufts Cove that generates this is not very likely—the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador electricity using oil and natural gas. The project would also make it or Nalcor Energy, a crown corporation and owner of the Newfound- possible to eliminate the Holyrood oil-burning power plant in land public electricity company, goes bankrupt. There is virtually no Newfoundland. This project therefore has many environmental likelihood of that happening. In that sense, there is virtually no risk benefits. to the federal government. The Muskrat Falls project is a hydroelectric project on the Lower Churchill River. The project will generate an estimated 824 MW of Once these plants have closed, it is estimated that the project will electricity. It is not a huge project compared to some in Quebec, such decrease these provinces' greenhouse gas emissions by 16 mega- as the mega projects we have become accustomed to seeing with tonnes a year. By way of comparison, that is equivalent to 3.2 million Hydro-Québec. This is the first phase of the project, and it will be cars on the road. followed by phase 2 on Gull Island. The two projects combined will generate 3,074 MW of electricity. Most of the parties in the House are in favour of reducing Once again, it is an important project that will help meet the needs greenhouse gases in order to mitigate the effects of climate change, of the Atlantic provinces, even though it is not anywhere near the which are already being felt. We have to put words into action. We size of the projects we are used to seeing from Hydro-Québec. We have talked a great deal about the need to eliminate greenhouse consider this to be an important project for Newfoundland and gases, but now we need to support measures that go in that direction. Labrador and for Nova Scotia, the two provinces party to the Hydroelectric plants go in that direction, particularly the one in agreement. Muskrat Falls, which is the subject of the hon. member's motion. That is why we will support this motion. I should note that energy is presently being produced in Labrador. This will be the first time that energy produced in Labrador is transmitted to the island of Newfoundland, which presently receives I would now like to talk about the misinformation surrounding this no hydroelectricity from outside the island. It is important that we project. The federal government is interfering in a provincial understand this in order to realize the impact that the project could jurisdiction. I do not see any interference in the Muskrat Falls project have on the Atlantic provinces, especially Newfoundland and or in the loan guarantee that the government is giving Newfoundland Labrador and Nova Scotia. for that project. Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia will always own these projects. Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova The project would create a maritime link to the island of Scotia will manage the production and transmission of hydroelectric Newfoundland and then a maritime link between the island of power. The federal government has no control over the project itself Newfoundland and Nova Scotia. At that point, if Nova Scotia thinks or how it is managed. All it is doing is offering a loan guarantee. it is necessary, it would have the opportunity to enter into an agreement with New Brunswick, as well as opportunities for export to the United States. I am truly surprised to hear this argument. I am also surprised to hear that it is not necessarily the best project available and that the However, we must be careful. Not all the electricity that is government should not give the loan guarantee. There are still produced at Muskrat Falls or eventually at Gull Island will go to the debates about this in Nova Scotia and in Newfoundland and United States. Right now, under the existing agreement, 60% of the Labrador. Some people think that the loan guarantee should not be electricity produced at Muskrat Falls and Gull Island will be used by given. 15326 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Private Members' Business The decision has been made. The two provinces conducted Canadian families. That is exactly what the NDP wants for Canada. environmental studies and studies to find better alternatives to the It wants the federal government to make significant investments in proposed measures, to the construction of Muskrat Falls and the green energy development across Canada. We are talking about the power transmission. The provinces determined that it was the project future of our environment and our economy. that best met their needs and their objectives. Nova Scotia has significant targets in terms of reducing greenhouse gases. It is not up to the federal government to decide what project is the best for the We need to develop the green energy sector. I think it is provinces. The work has already been done. particularly important to focus on the state of this sector and the government's investments in it. The second element directly affects Quebec, and members from Quebec talk about it often. I am talking about competition or the argument that Hydro-Québec would have competition. As I said, The situation is not very impressive. According to a report Hydro-Québec has done a great job and truly built the Quebec we published by Pew Charitable Trusts, an American non-profit, non- have today. Every Quebecker is grateful for the role that Hydro- governmental organization, green energy accounted for only 4.3% of Québec played in the province's economic development. There will Canada's energy production capacity in 2009. Canada ranked 11th, be no competition, because Hydro-Québec has no connection to followed by Indonesia, China, the United States and Mexico. We are Newfoundland. There will be no competition because Quebec does light years behind countries like Germany and Spain, whose green not do business with Nova Scotia. There will be no competition—or energy production capacity is close to 30% of their overall energy there will be very little—with regard to exporting electricity, because capacity. the project will export no more than 300 megawatts of electricity from Muskrat Falls to the United States. Hydro-Québec exports According to another Pew report, the situation is similar for 27,000 megawatts a year. Competition cannot be the only reason to investments in green energy. Canada ranked 11th among oppose this bill, which will have a positive impact on the G20 countries in 2011. While China and the United States did not environment. have very good records with respect to their capacity to produce Jack Layton supported this project. The NDP included it in its clean energy in 2009, these two countries were leading the pack with 2011 election platform, and we did not shy away from that. For once, their investments in developing green energy in 2011. we are proudly supporting a Conservative government decision, namely a loan guarantee for a project that will clearly be managed by From 2009 to 2011, the United States almost doubled its overall Newfoundland and Labrador, in partnership with Nova Scotia. green energy production capacity from 53.6 gigawatts to 93 giga- watts, and China nearly tripled its capacity from 52.5 gigawatts to I regret not having the opportunity to respond to my colleagues' 133 gigawatts. Canada has only increased its green energy questions. I know that that is not the tradition for private members' production capacity by 2 gigawatts over the same period. In short, bills, but I was pleased to speak to this very important issue. not only are we lagging behind, but we are being overtaken. ● (2050) It is not just the countries at the back of the pack that are Mr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil—Soulanges, NDP): Mr. Speak- overtaking us when it comes to green energy investment in recent er, I am pleased to speak to the motion moved by the hon. member years. Germany, Spain, India, the United Kingdom and Brazil all for Nipissing—Timiskaming. My NDP colleagues and I support this invested more than Canada in 2011. All these countries already had a motion. green energy production capacity higher than Canada's. The environment is a cause that is important to me. I believe it is important to ensure that families and children in our country can live Now is not the time for talk, but rather for action. The government in a healthy and sustainable environment. must do more than move motions, as commendable as they may be. It must commit to getting Canada back into the global green energy Before being elected to the House, I was involved in environ- race. mental causes in a number of capacities. I was on the board of directors of the Conseil du bassin versant de Vaudreuil—Soulanges. ● (2055) I also worked as an environmental researcher and as a consultant in ecological development. [English] I am taking the time to emphasize my commitment to the environment because I think it is important to ensure that the federal government assumes its responsibility to protect the environment by Getting back into the green energy race is not a matter of national actively encouraging the development of clean energy and a green pride or of political games; it is a matter of ensuring our energy economy. security, of protecting our environment and of stimulating the economic growth of Canada. As stated in a Pembina Institute report By committing to invest in green energy development, the federal published a few months ago, the current government's failure to government would be contributing to the fight against climate provide leadership in the green energy sector is undermining this change, while stimulating the economy and cutting energy costs for country's competitiveness on the world market. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15327

Adjournment Proceedings Too often, the NDP is wrongfully accused by the Conservatives of am currently chair of the cleantech caucus. I have always had a huge being against job creation or being against developing our economy. interest in renewable energy and cleantech projects. That is what I think the case of the green energy sector shows exactly the motivated me to get involved in the motion. opposite. It shows that we at the NDP understand how the economy works. We understand how to create economic growth. We I am particularly proud of our government assisting in this understand that Canadians want good sustainable jobs. We know initiative. Obviously, this would create jobs, improve our economy that part of the solution is to invest in the green energy sector to give and ensure long-term prosperity. It would clean up the environment our clean technology companies the support that they need. We also with one of the largest renewable energy projects in Canada's history. understand that if the government does not act now, no one will, and It would eliminate fossil fuel plants in Newfoundland and Nova Canada will keep falling behind. Scotia. Clearly, it would save some 4.5 million tonnes of GHG. Although my party and I support the motion, I think that it is I would be remiss if I did not extend my appreciation to the slightly ironic for the Conservative government to pat itself on the former, and I would hope soon-to-be future, member for Labrador back in matters of clean energy, while only last year it cancelled the who has been of tremendous help to me in this endeavour and of $400 million ecoEnergy retrofit program ahead of schedule and did valuable assistance with this project. I thank him for his hard work in not renew funding for Sustainable Development Technology making this project a reality and look forward to when he can return Canada. Even in this budget, it only allocated $1 million to SDTC and offer even more of the kind of leadership he has given his this year. All the funding for that program is years down the line, constituents over the last two years. No doubt, his efforts have made, when the Conservatives might not even be in power. and will make, a distinct difference to the people of Atlantic Canada and the people of Labrador. I do not wish to sound too cynical about the Conservative motion, but I think that it is not an exaggeration to state that the current With this future in mind and with the many benefits the project Conservative government and its Liberal predecessors have over- would bring to Canadians, I strongly support private member's looked the importance of a green transition for this country's Motion No. 412 and our government's commitment to these projects. economy and environment. I look forward to the day when the ribbon is cut at the Muskrat Falls hydro power generating station and I look forward to all members of Nonetheless, I will support the motion. I will support the motion the House supporting Motion No. 412. because I think that Canada needs to invest in and develop our clean (2105) and renewable energy sector. While other G20 countries are going ● ahead with massive investments, we are falling behind. Countries The Acting Speaker (Mr. Barry Devolin): The time provided for such as China and the United States, which are not role models in debate has expired. The question is on the amendment. Is it the matters of clean energy, are passing us in terms of stimulus funding pleasure of the House to adopt the amendment? for clean energy. We need to catch up and become leaders instead of laggards. Some hon. members: Agreed. Most of all, I hope the government will walk the walk in matters Some hon. members: No. of clean energy. I hope that the Canadian government will develop a The Acting Speaker (Mr. Barry Devolin): All those in favour of clear and effective strategy of investment in clean energy. I hope that the amendment will please say yea. the Conservative government decision to agree to a loan guarantee on the lower Churchill hydroelectric project is more than just a Some hon. members: Yea. political manoeuvre, because developing a vibrant clean energy sector in Canada is no political game. Developing clean energy The Acting Speaker (Mr. Barry Devolin): All those opposed would grow the Canadian economy and create good, lasting jobs. will please say nay. To conclude, I hope that my colleagues on the other side of the Some hon. members: Nay. House do understand, as the NDP does, that Canada can become a global leader in renewable energy and that it is the role of the The Acting Speaker (Mr. Barry Devolin): In my opinion the government to develop renewable energy to create economic growth yeas have it. and jobs, while building a sustainable economy that decreases our And five or more members having risen: carbon footprint for generations to come. The Acting Speaker (Mr. Barry Devolin): Pursuant to Standing ● (2100) Order 93, the recorded division stands deferred until Wednesday, The Acting Speaker (Mr. Barry Devolin): Resuming debate April 17, immediately before the time provided for private members' with his five-minute right of reply, the hon. member for Nipissing— business. Timiskaming. Mr. Jay Aspin (Nipissing—Timiskaming, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise as the sponsor of Motion No. 412 and I am pleased with the consensus that has arrived. ADJOURNMENT PROCEEDINGS I will just give a little background. I was involved in alternative A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed energy for about 10 years before being elected as a parliamentarian. I to have been moved. 15328 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Adjournment Proceedings [English] nothing but consultations on first nations education, when aboriginal students are funded at only half the level as other students in Ontario. REGIONAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT Mr. Bruce Hyer (Thunder Bay—Superior North, Ind.): Mr. Speaker, the Conservative's economic plan has failed many No budget is all bad or good; there are things in this one that I can Canadians. It has especially failed northwestern Ontario and will support. However, for a change, will the Conservatives be open to continue to fail our region under the 2013 budget. They have already considering some amendments to improve the budget this time? handed us the largest trade deficit in Canadian history, the largest budget deficit in Canadian history and stalled unemployment. Now (2110) the Communist Chinese are handed control of our key resources, ● science is sabotaged and environmental controls are scrapped. It is a plan where ideology kills evidence and science. Ms. Candice Bergen (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I am glad for this opportunity The Conservatives have spent tens of millions of tax dollars to address the member's question and to once again highlight the fine advertising the plan to the very taxpayers who pay for the ads. work our Conservative government has done and continues to do in However, the ads do not mention the cuts to critical services across northern Ontario. Canada, particularly in northwestern Ontario. They are cuts like closing the Thunder Bay citizenship and immigration office, and the upcoming closure of the Thunder Bay Marine Communication and We recognize the importance of having the tools in place to Traffic Services Centre after 105 years of life-saving service. Now address the economic development needs of local communities and calls will be routed over 1,000 kms away, to a call centre in southern businesses. We are focused on investing in initiatives that build on Ontario. regional strengths and capitalize on opportunities to create jobs, growth and long-term prosperity. The Thunder Bay Veterans Affairs Canada office is also closing. It served RCMP officers, 500 senior veterans and 600 younger veterans. Including family members, the Thunder Bay office has I am proud to report that our Conservative government, through served about 3,000 people, all the way from the Manitoba border to FedNor, has invested more than $346 million toward more than past Sault Ste. Marie. A toll-free number, or referring veterans to a 1,500 projects in northern Ontario, and we do not have to look very website, is not the service that those who have served our country far to see the results of our investments. deserve. There have been 25 positions that were lost at Human Resources and Skills Development Canada in Thunder Bay, which will further In the city of Elliot Lake, the impact of the Algo Centre Mall devastate EI recipients. The Canada Revenue Agency in Thunder collapse last year was deeply felt by the entire community, including Bay has closed its service counter. The Department of Fisheries and local businesses. It forced the relocation of 30 businesses and Oceans has lost fisheries biologists, which will impact the protection affected more than 195 jobs. The need for infrastructure investment of fish and their habitat. This is on top of the closure of the in this community was real and urgent. I am very proud of our Experimental Lakes Area. Thunder Bay is losing 75 people at the government's response. Canadian Grain Commission. Having no more research and no more inward inspections will damage Canada's reputation. With an investment of $1 million, we helped the community to Service Canada in my riding has seen over 20 jobs lost, impacting prepare and service a seven-acre parcel of land that will be the site of front-line service delivery to constituents. In total, over 130 people a new 80,000-square-foot retail centre. This investment, expected to have been axed so far in Thunder Bay, and that number will soon attract approximately $10 million in additional private sector funding grow to over 300 this year. to the region, makes good economic sense. It also serves as one example to highlight our government's ongoing commitment to help Let us turn to the problems of the budget that was tabled just a few communities build the infrastructure they need to grow their days ago. There are a lot. There is a tax hike on credit unions. There economy and create jobs. are no substantial new tax reductions for small business, just a job- killing hike in payroll taxes, EI premiums. By contrast, the United Kingdom just reduced those to zero for small businesses, to stimulate Our Conservative government is committed to supporting jobs. economic growth and job creation in northern Ontario, and we will continue to do this through our economic action plan and through the There is nothing in the budget to end the $1.3 billion in taxpayer efforts of organizations like FedNor. subsidies for the greedy and profitable oil and gas sector and still no price on carbon. There are no new doctors and nurses in rural areas. The Conservatives are recycling old money for youth unemploy- Mr. Bruce Hyer: Mr. Speaker, I want to underscore another part ment, when 13% of youth under 29 years of age are unemployed. of the government's plan that has real effect on the economy of There are no rules on exorbitant bank and credit card charges on Canada and northwestern Ontario, and that is its wilful ignorance, consumers and small businesses, just voluntary codes. There is even outright hostility, to facts or science that contradicts its nothing to deal with the pensions crisis, just more talk. There is ideological beliefs. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15329

Adjournment Proceedings One example is its obsession with closing the Experimental Lakes keep data from the registry about Quebec. The request is clear, Area in northwestern Ontario at a cost of tens of millions in lost simple and legitimate. research and billions in future environmental and health impacts that could have been prevented. On September 12, 2012, the Government of Quebec obtained an Another example just happened yesterday when the National injunction preventing the Quebec data in the gun registry from being Round Table on the Environment and the Economy, itself axed by destroyed. Here is an excerpt from that ruling: the government, revealed that the government was attempting to bury a lot of its valuable information. Although the firearms registry was established pursuant to the federal government’s criminal law power, it created a partnership with Quebec, particularly Erasing inconvenient facts and muzzling scientists and policy with regard to the Registry’s data. The principles of constitutional interpretation do experts undermines our ability to weigh evidence and to make good not allow a level of government, in the very specific and unique context of this case, to enact a legislative provision whose main purpose is to prevent other levels of policy decisions. government from using the fruits of this partnership in the exercise of their legislative ● (2115) powers. Ms. Candice Bergen: Mr. Speaker, our government is committed to ensuring that Canada's vast mineral wealth be developed as a vital The legal battle continues. Instead of acquiescing to Quebec's part of our national economy. I want to highlight the Ring of Fire, request and transferring the data, the federal government is digging which will be at the forefront of a mining renaissance in our country. in its heels and continuing to demonstrate a lack of openness, respect and understanding in the face of this request that is so important to The Ring of Fire has the potential to create over 5,000 direct and Quebeckers. It is even appealing the injunction, at a significant cost indirect jobs in northern Ontario alone, plus significant spinoff to taxpayers. benefits throughout the province. That is why our economic action plan 2013 and our Harper government has committed to $4.4 million over three years for initiatives like a Ring of Fire capacity-building Quebec's public safety minister, Stéphane Bergeron, decided to initiative through FedNor. move forward and stop waiting. In February, he introduced bill 20, which aims to create a Quebec gun registry. This bill will prevent a Clearly, we are committed to the people of northern Ontario. legal vacuum and will allow for data that were previously contained The Acting Speaker (Mr. Barry Devolin): I would remind all in the federal registry to be properly moved to the Quebec registry. hon. members not to use the name of any members, including the Prime Minister, when speaking in the chamber. Will the government listen to Quebec's request and agree to hand The hon. member for Haute-Gaspésie—La Mitis—Matane— the data over to Quebec? Matapédia. ● (2120) [Translation] FIREARMS REGISTRY [English] Mr. Jean-François Fortin (Haute-Gaspésie—La Mitis—Ma- tane—Matapédia, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I want to take this Ms. Candice Bergen (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister opportunity today to come back to the important matter of of Public Safety, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to have the controlling the movement and ownership of firearms. Such gun opportunity to answer the member's question, and to once again control is necessary. highlight our government's commitment to law-abiding long-gun owners in Canada. The government decided to destroy the registry, a tool that helps save lives, a tool with a proven track record. Despite six unanimous motions at the National Assembly calling on the government to give For far too long, law-abiding gun owners in Canada who were up its ideological crusade against this registry that was heavily used licensed to own firearms and use firearms for legitimate purposes by police forces, the government dug in its heels. throughout the country in rural areas, including in rural areas of Quebec, have been targeted. They were targeted by a wasteful and Quebeckers know that the registry saves lives. Community ineffective long gun registry. organizations that often see how useful and effective this tool is also ask that access to this type of registry be maintained. When the members of Quebec's National Assembly saw how inflexible the The long-gun registry cost $2 billion to set up, as reported by the federal government was about this, they unanimously asked that CBC. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever, nor is there any Quebec's portion of the data contained in the now dismantled testimony from front-line police officers, that the long-gun registry registry be transferred to the province. has or had any ability to stop any kind of crime, much less violent gun crime. There are a number of reasons for that. Primarily, the data In light of the government's determination and rush to destroy not contained in the database of the long-gun registry was completely only the registry, but all the data it contained, including information inaccurate. Only half of the firearms in Canada were actually in the on firearms owners in Quebec, the Government of Quebec had no database of the long-gun registry, because not every long gun was choice but to appeal to the courts to assert its rights. Quebec wants to registered. 15330 COMMONS DEBATES March 27, 2013

Adjournment Proceedings Therefore, police officers could not rely on the data. They testified [English] numerous times in committee meetings regarding the bill that the government and I introduced to end the long-gun registry. I was at Ms. Candice Bergen: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that the hon. every committee meeting and I heard from front-line officers over member does understand the licensing process, and I appreciate his and over again who said they could never count on the data. If they comments on that. went on a call and the data said there were no firearms there, they I would challenge him to bring any evidence forward that shows knew they had to make sure to check, because many times the data the registry portion of the firearms control program that was was inaccurate. previously established in Canada has or had any effect on stopping one single crime. We had a commitment that we made to the Canadian people and to long gun owners in Canada. We fulfilled that commitment. We The logic behind thinking that we can somehow stop a crime if we scrapped the long-gun registry and we destroyed the data. count the guns of law-abiding gun owners is completely flawed. It is impossible. That is why we committed to ending the long-gun Certainly, if Quebec wants to set up its own gun registry, it is free registry, and we had the support of the Canadian people. We to do that. However, I would suggest that in this time of the fiscal destroyed the data outside of Quebec. If Quebec wants to set up its restraint it is going to cost millions of dollars, if not billions, to do so. own registry, it is absolutely free to do so, but we will not be It will do nothing to stop violent crime. It does nothing to end supporting it. suicide, and it does not stop violence. ● (2125) The measure we have in place with regard to gun control in [Translation] Canada is the licensing mechanism. It may be that my hon. colleague does not understand the difference. Licensing means individuals go AEROSPACE INDUSTRY through a background check and a mental health check. Many times their spouses are consulted to see if they can legitimately, legally and Ms. Hélène LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard, NDP): Last spring and safely own a firearm. That is where we have the ability to stop summer, I had some very interesting meetings with various people from getting guns. stakeholders in the aerospace industry. They told me that the Canadian aerospace industry is a successful sector that provides The majority of people who get guns illegally are doing so 66,000 very good jobs in Canada. because they are involved in gangs, drugs and organized crime. That is where we have introduced legislation to get tough on organized Furthermore, this sector generates revenues of more than crime and introduce mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes. $22 billion. These people also told me that the aerospace industry Unfortunately, the member and his party do not support any of those is at a crossroads. The competition is getting fiercer and, measures. unfortunately, Canada is losing ground as the Conservative government stands idly by. They also told me that they could not We will continue to stand up for law-abiding gun owners. There is understand why the government purchases planes and helicopters only one party in the House that consistently stands up for long gun from other countries. owners, because we know the NDP would reintroduce the long-gun When the Deloitte & Touche report gave federal aerospace registry, and that is the Conservative Party. programs a D, the Minister of Industry ordered Mr. Emerson to [Translation] review the aerospace industry. His report provided 17 recommenda- tions for the aeronautics industry and eight recommendations for the Mr. Jean-François Fortin: Mr. Speaker, it is amusing to see the space program. The Jenkins report on military procurement was Conservatives talk about a costly and ineffective registry when the released after that. registry produced results. There were organizations that could very simply show the impact of adopting the registry. The Minister of Industry said that these reports would not collect dust and that the government would take action. We have been Yes, there are costs involved. Speaking of costs, do we need to waiting for the government to take meaningful action since remind the government that Quebeckers helped pay to set it up? Part December. The Conservatives will of course tell us that this is of the registry and the data it contained must be returned to Quebec, covered in the 2013 budget, but everyone knows that the budget is since Quebec requested it. an empty shell and there is no long-term vision. What the aerospace industry needs is a long-term commitment from the government as We can see that the Conservatives have no understanding of the well as long-term predictable programs. issue of transferring the data. The parliamentary secretary talks about a lack of understanding. I fully understand the mechanisms, since I The industry does not look at the future in blocks of four-year have hunting and gun licences. terms between elections. The industry plans over the course of 5, 10, 15 or 20 years. That is planning for the future. What it would like to I do not think that, for the government, that should be a barrier to see is a clear commitment from the government about the 17 transferring the data to Quebec. recommendations in this report that were made very carefully in response to consultations with players in the aerospace industry. We The government must transfer the data. are still waiting. March 27, 2013 COMMONS DEBATES 15331

Adjournment Proceedings Why is it that the government has not yet recognized that the and development leader. We are very proud to continue the support aerospace industry is a strategic sector for our economy and that it that we have been giving to our aerospace sector. creates very high-quality jobs, which add significant value to the ● (2130) manufacturing sector, export products and so on? How is it that this government is not giving a clear indication to the aerospace industry [Translation] that it is truly committed to supporting the sector, not just until 2015, Ms. Hélène LeBlanc: Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out that but beyond 2015, with a long-term vision? urgent action is needed. The Emerson report shows that the There is also the issue of space, but I will stick to the aerospace government fell asleep at the wheel. We do not expect planes or industry. We are still waiting for a clear signal proving that the aircraft, but we see that the government has been asleep at the wheel government recognizes this strategic and important sector of our for a few years and that it has some catching up to do. Now is not the economy. time to wait. Now is the time to act. The measures proposed in the [English] budget will take effect in 2014-15. Ms. Candice Bergen (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister What is more, we are wondering about the aerospace technology of Public Safety, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I am very happy to respond to demonstration program. Will this program be enough? Will the my hon. colleague's question regarding our government's support for government really take action? Once again, I would like to remind the aerospace industry. my colleague that neither the Minister of Industry nor the Prime Canada's aerospace industry is a world leader. Our aerospace Minister has sent a clear message saying that the aerospace industry productivity growth outpaced the rest of the G7 over the last 10 is a strategic sector that must be included on the science and years, and the industry as a whole has an enviable reputation, with technology program list. acknowledged leadership in business and regional aircraft, small gas [English] turbine engines, flight simulators, civil helicopters, aircraft landing gear and environmental control systems. Ms. Candice Bergen: Mr. Speaker, Canada's aerospace industry is anchoring thousands of high-skill jobs across our country. The industry contributes over $11 billion to the economy as well as another $14 billion from indirect and induced work. Its cutting- Our government knows that innovation, ideas and ingenuity are edge work supports 160,000 Canadian jobs. what will matter in tomorrow's economy. Innovation is the best way for high-wage economies like ours to compete with countries around Our government puts a high priority on the aerospace sector. Just the world and to create jobs here at home. last week, economic action plan 2013 provided close to $1 billion for the strategic aerospace and defence initiative and established a new Economic action plan 2013 demonstrates the government's aerospace technology demonstration program. The government is commitment to encouraging innovation in the aerospace and space also committed to consulting stakeholders on the establishment of a industries, with stable funding of nearly $1 billion over five years to national aerospace research and technology network. the strategic aerospace and defence initiative, the creation of an aerospace technology demonstration program and the launch of Our government is continuing to study the report's findings and consultations for the creation of a national aerospace research and will take action over the coming year to improve the focus and technology network. coordination of programs and practices relevant to the aerospace and space industries. We are supporting this important industry and we will continue to These initiatives are in addition to broader measures outlined in do so. Canada's economic action plan 2013 that are helping manufacturers [Translation] and businesses across Canada succeed in the global economy, including tax relief for new manufacturing machinery and equip- The Acting Speaker (Mr. Barry Devolin): The motion to ment, support for skills development and training, and investment in adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. leading-edge research infrastructure, to name just a few. Accordingly, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a. m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1). These investments benefit the whole economy, including the aerospace industry, which is a Canadian manufacturing and research (The House adjourned at 9:33 p.m.)

CONTENTS

Wednesday, March 27, 2013

STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS Mr. Clement ...... 15276 Mr. Angus ...... 15276 Right to Education in French in Saskatchewan Mr. Clement ...... 15276 Mrs. Mourani...... 15271 The Environment Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada Mr. Rae ...... 15276 Mr. Hoback...... 15271 Mr. Harper...... 15276 The Budget Mr. Rae ...... 15276 ...... Mr. Giguère 15271 Mr. Harper...... 15276 Franco-Ontarian Newspaper Mr. Rae ...... 15276 Mr. Galipeau ...... 15272 Mr. Harper...... 15276 Autism Taxation Ms. Fry ...... 15272 Ms. Nash ...... 15277 Mr. Menzies ...... 15277 Georgetown Citizen of the Year Ms. Nash ...... 15277 Mr. Chong ...... 15272 Mr. Menzies ...... 15277 B.C. Fisheries Ms. Blanchette-Lamothe ...... 15277 ...... Ms. Crowder 15272 Mr. Menzies ...... 15277 Pleasantdale School Ms. Blanchette-Lamothe ...... 15277 Mr. Komarnicki ...... 15273 Mr. Menzies ...... 15277 Mr. Caron ...... 15277 Aboriginal Women's Rights Mr. Menzies ...... 15277 Mrs. Ambler ...... 15273 Mr. Caron ...... 15278 Franco-Ontarian Newspaper Mr. Menzies ...... 15278 Mr. Ravignat ...... 15273 Mr. Boulerice ...... 15278 Natural Resources Mr. Bernier ...... 15278 Mr. Weston (Saint John) ...... 15273 Canada Revenue Agency Women's Rights Mr. Rankin ...... 15278 Mrs. Groguhé...... 15273 Mrs. Shea...... 15278 Mr. Rankin ...... 15278 Infrastructure Mrs. Shea...... 15278 Ms. Bateman ...... 15274 The Budget Parliamentary Budget Officer Mr. Rae ...... 15278 Mr. Brison ...... 15274 Mr. Lebel ...... 15279 The Economy Mr. Rae ...... 15279 ...... Mr. Chisu 15274 Mr. Lebel ...... 15279 Conservative Party of Canada Mr. Rae ...... 15279 Ms. Freeman ...... 15274 Mr. Lebel ...... 15279 World Autism Awareness Day Aboriginal Affairs Mr. Lake...... 15275 Ms. Crowder ...... 15279 Mr. Rickford...... 15279 ORAL QUESTIONS Mr. Genest-Jourdain ...... 15279 Mr. Rickford...... 15280 Taxation Ms. Leslie ...... 15275 The Environment Mr. Harper...... 15275 Ms. Quach...... 15280 Ms. Leslie ...... 15275 Mr. Kent ...... 15280 Mr. Harper...... 15275 Mr. Choquette ...... 15280 Ms. Leslie ...... 15275 Mr. Kent ...... 15280 Mr. Harper...... 15275 Justice Ethics Mr. McColeman ...... 15280 Mr. Angus ...... 15275 Mr. Nicholson ...... 15280 Regional Economic Development Government Response to Petitions

Mr. Aubin ...... 15280 Mr. Lukiwski ...... 15288 Mr. Lebel ...... 15281 Committees of the House Canada Post Official Languages

Ms. Ayala...... 15281 Mr. Chong ...... 15288

Mr. Lebel ...... 15281 Mr. Godin ...... 15288 Mr. Genest...... 15281 Finance

Mr. Lebel ...... 15281 Mr. Rajotte ...... 15288 Mr. Masse ...... 15281 Canadian Heritage Mr. Lebel ...... 15281 Mr. Moore (Fundy Royal) ...... 15288 Elections Canada Corruption of Foreign Public Officials Act Mr. Rae ...... 15281 Mr. Baird ...... 15289 Mr. Poilievre...... 15281 Bill S-14. First reading...... 15289

Justice (Motion agreed to and bill read the first time) ...... 15289 Mr. Rae ...... 15282 Petitions Mr. Nicholson ...... 15282 Sex Selection

International Trade Mr. Hiebert ...... 15289 Ms. Laverdière ...... 15282 Shark Finning

Mr. Fast...... 15282 Mr. Rankin ...... 15289 Mr. Davies (Vancouver Kingsway) ...... 15282 Canada Labour Code

Mr. Fast...... 15282 Mr. Rankin ...... 15289 Aboriginal Affairs Experimental Lakes Area Mr. Hoback...... 15282 Mr. Goodale ...... 15289 Mr. Rickford...... 15282 Sex Selection Mr. Payne ...... 15289 Canadian Heritage Bank Remittance Fees Mr. Rae ...... 15283 Ms. Duncan (Edmonton—Strathcona) ...... 15289 Mr. Moore (Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam) . 15283 Sex Selection Agriculture and Agri-Food Mr. Woodworth...... 15289 Mr. Lapointe...... 15283 Blood Donation Mr. Ritz...... 15283 Ms. Leslie ...... 15289 Natural Resources Employment Insurance

Mr. Merrifield ...... 15283 Ms. Liu ...... 15290 Mr. Oliver ...... 15283 Lyme Disease The Environment Ms. May ...... 15290 Mr. Bevington ...... 15283 Shark Finning Mr. Rickford...... 15283 Ms. May ...... 15290 Employment Insurance Air Canada Mrs. Day ...... 15290 Mrs. Mourani...... 15284 Bank Remittance Fees Ms. Leitch ...... 15284 Mr. Julian...... 15290 Hon. Member for Toronto Centre Road Safety Mr. Goodale ...... 15284 Ms. Chow ...... 15290 Mr. Baird ...... 15285 Parks Canada Mr. Cullen ...... 15286 Ms. Chow ...... 15290 Mr. Plamondon ...... 15286 Sex Selection Ms. May ...... 15286 Mr. Watson ...... 15290 Mr. Rae ...... 15287 Questions Passed as Orders for Return Royal Assent Mr. Lukiwski ...... 15290 The Speaker ...... 15288 Motions for Papers ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Mr. Lukiwski ...... 15291 41st General Election Request for Emergency Debate Search and Rescue

The Speaker ...... 15288 Mr. Godin ...... 15291 Privilege Motion agreed to ...... 15311

Department of Justice—Speaker's Ruling (Bill read the second time and referred to a committee) . 15311 The Speaker ...... 15292 ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS ROYAL ASSENT Committees of the House The Speaker ...... 15294 Justice and Human Rights Privilege Motion for concurrence ...... 15311 S. O. 31 Motion agreed to ...... 15312 Mr. Rathgeber ...... 15294 PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS GOVERNMENT ORDERS Delay or Interruption of Private Members' Hour— The Budget Speaker's Ruling Financial Statement of Minister of Finance The Speaker ...... 15312 Motion ...... 15295 Discover Your Canada Act Mr. Hoback...... 15295 Bill C-463. Second reading ...... 15312 Ms. Duncan (Edmonton—Strathcona) ...... 15297 Mr. Pacetti ...... 15312 Mr. Garneau ...... 15297 Mr. Lapointe...... 15314 Mr. Lobb ...... 15297 Ms. Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue) ...... 15315 Mr. Lunney ...... 15298 Mr. Trottier ...... 15315 Ms. LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard)...... 15299 Mr. Lapointe...... 15316 Mr. Garneau ...... 15300 ...... Mr. Leef ...... 15300 Mr. Brison 15318 Mr. Tremblay ...... 15301 Mrs. O'Neill Gordon ...... 15319 Mr. Lamoureux ...... 15302 Ms. Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue) ...... 15320 Ms. Crockatt...... 15302 Hydroelectric Project Ms. Duncan (Edmonton—Strathcona) ...... 15304 Motion ...... 15321 Mr. Hsu...... 15304 Mr. Hsu...... 15321 Ms. Rempel ...... 15304 Mr. Allen (Tobique—Mactaquac) ...... 15322 Ms. LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard)...... 15304 Mr. Chisholm...... 15323 Motion agreed to ...... 15306 Mr. Caron ...... 15324 PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS Mr. Nicholls ...... 15326 Mr. Aspin...... 15327 Canada Labour Code Division on motion deferred ...... 15327 Bill C-464. Second reading ...... 15306 Motion negatived...... 15307 ADJOURNMENT PROCEEDINGS Air Passengers' Bill of Rights Regional Economic Development

Bill C-459. Second reading ...... 15307 Mr. Hyer...... 15328

Motion negatived...... 15309 Ms. Bergen ...... 15328 Ban on Shark Fin Importation Act Firearms Registry Bill C-380. Second reading ...... 15309 Mr. Fortin...... 15329 Motion negatived...... 15310 Ms. Bergen ...... 15329 CBC and Public Service Disclosure and Transparency Aerospace Industry Act Ms. LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard)...... 15330 Bill C-461. Second reading ...... 15310 Ms. Bergen ...... 15331 Published under the authority of the Speaker of Publié en conformité de l’autorité the House of Commons du Président de la Chambre des communes SPEAKER’S PERMISSION PERMISSION DU PRÉSIDENT

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