Nine Voices Reflect on Open Government Interviews by Jordi Rovira

OPEN GOVERNMENT

Proactive Disclosure in the Transparency, 1 Access to Information and Good Governance GOVERN Act: Possibilities and Shortcomings. Manuel Villoria.

Obertura i reutilització de dades públiques. 2 Martín Álvarez Espinar.

La justícia penal davant la corrupció. OBERT 3 Antonio del Moral García. Contractació oberta 4 2019 Agustí Cerrillo i Martínez. 2019 T 5

GOVERN OBE R Nine voices reﬂect on open government Jordi Rovira (coord.)

ISBN 978-84-393-9822-6

5 9 7 8 8 4 3 9 3 9 8 2 2 6 GOVERN OBERT 2019 2019 T 5

GOVERN OBE R Nine voices reﬂect on open government Jordi Rovira (coord.)

ISBN 978-84-393-9548-5

5 9 7 8 8 4 3 9 3 9 5 4 8 5 GOVERN OBERT 2019 2019 T 5

GOVERN OBE R Nine voices reﬂect on open government Jordi Rovira (coord.)

ISBN 978-84-393-9548-5

5 9 7 8 8 4 3 9 3 9 5 4 8 5 Legal notice

This work is subject to a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 licence. Licensees may copy, distribute, broadcast and make derivative works based on it without restrictions, provided they credit the holder of the rights (the Secretariat of Transparency and Open Government of the Government of Catalonia’s Ministry for Foreign Action, Institutional Relations and Transparency). The full licence is available to consult at http://creative- commons.org/licenses/by/3.0/es/legalcode.ca.

First edition: January 2019 ISBN: 978-84-393-9822-6 DL: B 30502-2018 Jordi Rovira, coordinator, interviews and writing Sergio Ruiz, photography Laia Guarro, layout Jordi Sales, correction Technical Office, linguistic supervision

Contents

Prologue Democracy and open government Alfred Bosch i Pascual 6

Nine voices reflect on open government Interviews by Jordi Rovira

Raül Romeva 8

Gemma Calvet 14

Carlos Guadián 20

Karma Peiró 26

Carles Ramió 32

Iolanda Fresnillo 38

David Fernàndez 44

Begoña Román 50

Simona Levi 56 6 Open Government

Prologue

Democracy and open government We live in a complex, globalised society in which citizens have no control over a large proportion of the decisions that affect their lives. A crisis of confidence in our institutions, and in politics as a mechanism to transform our situation into the search for the common good, has become apparent in this context. Faced with spurious authoritarian solutions to this problem, the Government of Catalonia undertakes to be a world leader in democratic quality.

All studies indicate that there are countries that are able to com- bine economic growth, high levels of taxation and high-quality egalitarian public services with very low levels of corruption and high levels of public participation and trust. Countries like Swe- den, Denmark, Norway and Estonia always appear at the top of the list in studies of good governance, democratic quality and socio-economic results. These countries are our benchmarks.

They have all been committed –some of them for decades– to transparency, open data and making information available to the public. In Catalonia, we passed Law 1/2014, of 29 December, on transparency, access to information and good governance four years ago. It was a firm commitment to improve in these areas, with three very clear objectives: to increase public trust and participation in public management and politics; to ensure public oversight and accountability; and to improve good governance and the ethical culture of public administrators and those involved in government. In some areas, such as the regulation of the transparency of private sector public service providers and the influence of lobbyists on public decision makers, the above-mentioned Law is at the forefront of its field in Europe.

In this book, nine experts on transparency policies reflect on the Prologue 7

path we have travelled over the past four years, and of course, on the areas for improvement that need to be prioritised. Four years on from the enactment of the Law, very important steps have clearly been taken in terms of the public information that citizens can access the participation mechanisms available to them, the transparency of lobbyists’ activities and constructing an ethical culture in public bodies.

The thoughts contained in the interviews in this book will undoubtedly help us to identify the areas where we have to focus our efforts towards continued improvement and towards leadership in transparency policies and democratic quality. The challenge is clear. Raül Romeva, who as Minister for Foreign Affairs, Institutional Relations and Transparency, was one of the driving forces behind the application of the Law, reminds us of this in an answer he gives in his interview in this book:

“The best way to prevent any regression is for all of us to be able to build a Catalonia that is a benchmark for democratic quality. Our imprisonment is largely related to the fact that we have pursued, and we will continue to pursue, this goal.”

Alfred Bosch i Pascual Minister for Foreign Action, Institutional Relations and Trans- parency 8 Open Government

Interview with Raül Romeva, former Minister for Foreign Affairs, Institutional Relations and Transparency of the Government of Catalonia “We must be able to work in a climate of transparency and sincerity” Raül Romeva, in the unusual setting of Lledoners, prison where he is on remand accused of rebellion, reflects on the importance of institutions creating trust and the role of citizens.

As a former minister for transpar- 20 September 2017 in front of ency of the Government of Cat- the offices of the Ministry of alonia, don’t you think that the the Economy and what Jordi circumstances surrounding your Sánchez and Jordi Cuixart did, imprisonment are very unclear? but was not broadcast on any More than unclear, all the indica- national television channel in tions we’ve had so far suggest Spain. complete intransigence. It’s an in- At a Spanish level, and to a certain transigence that even runs counter extent in Catalonia, the media act to the experience of our lawyers. as the fourth authority of the state Whenever there are proceedings or in supporting Spanish unity, more an appeal, we use many arguments than as a true news service, and that are very well-founded, but they they work for Spanish unity. Unfor- are never accepted, always rejected. tunately, considering the narrative they produce, it isn’t surprising It is often said that elsewhere that people think that there is ha- in Spain there is a lack of trans- tred towards Spain and civil disorder parency in the news about the in Catalonia. All day every day, on Catalan independence process one channel or another, and often and your imprisonment. For ex- on more than one channel at a ample, the television documen- time, there is a discussion, debate tary 20-S depicts the events of or news item which aims to dehu- Interview with Raül Romeva 9 10 Open Government

manise the republican leadership, the political class attempted to to spread false information about obtain the public’s trust. Do you events that supposedly show that think that it succeeded, or are the situation in the streets of Cat- there too many issues to take alonia is one of extreme violence, into account to build that trust? or to speculate on the intentions The workings of a democracy are or reasons that lead many people based on a delicate balance be- to embrace the republican cause. tween trust and mistrust. From a There is obviously a lack of trans- republican perspective, citizens parency concerning events, argu- must take an active part in de- ments and the ideological positions cision-making, and that means of republicanism, as well as obvious trusting institutions. However, we falsifications of certain facts, all of must at the same time be vigilant; which constantly reinforce the op- we need a certain amount of mis- posing narrative.

Spain has traditionally been a “We must be vigilant, country very much lacking in we need a certain transparency. Can this be simply explained as an effect of four amount of mistrust decades of Francoism, or are to control abuses of there other factors? Tradition and history obviously de- power” termine the present, wherever you are. The Franco regime was a dicta- trust, if you like, to control abuses of torial, violent, bloodthirsty, invasive power. The economic crisis showed and regressive regime. It is also that the decisions taken at a global true that the Spanish transition to level were not subject to oversight democracy imposed a silence and by citizens, and often not even by an agreement to forget what was politicians. In conjunction with the involved in maintaining the adminis- wrongdoing by some in the political trative and judicial structures of the world, this increased public mistrust. dictatorship, with its mechanisms The surveys of trust make that very and inertias, and a large proportion clear. Within the framework of open of its political culture. Wide-ranging government and democratic quality, public policies were and still are transparency must provide citizens needed in order to disseminate his- with tools, improve our institutions, torical memory and the democrati- and increase trust. However, results sation of structures, as happened are not achieved overnight, but as a in states with a longer democratic result of perseverance and cultural tradition. That did not happen in change. We know that countries Spain, unfortunately. like those in Scandinavia, which have a more transparent culture, Before the Catalan and Spanish are those with the highest levels of transparency laws were passed, trust and democratic quality. So, if Interview with Raül Romeva 11

we want to become benchmarks as possible is placed in the public in democratic quality, we must per- realm, and particularly information severe with transparency policies, related to influences on politicians. although it is obvious that we must We have already made progress in also take things further. this area in Catalonia.

In an article published in the In his study Ridao also said that magazine InDret, the jurist and not all the opportunities availa- political scientist Joan Ridao ble were being used to estab- concluded that the Catalan Law lish a fully effective regulation goes beyond the Spanish Law on transparency. Do you think and other regional legislation. that’s the case? And if so, do Does what is being achieved you think that this is due to a also go further? lack of resources or a lack of Undoubtedly. I’ll give you an exam- political will? ple. Investigative journalism based Unfortunately, resources are limited, on data obtained as a result of and in the case of Catalonia, this is the right of access to information particularly true because of the un- is bearing fruit in Catalonia. In this derfunding that the Spanish system area, it is also important to empha- of government entails. Nevertheless, sise the importance of journalism in obvious progress has been made. highlighting, explaining and contex- If any citizen asks the Government tualising information, in other words, of Catalonia for public information using accurate information to make tomorrow, there is an organisational news as close to reality as possible. and computerised system that en- This task is much less transparent sures that they will receive an ap- and more difficult in Spain because propriate response. Not only that, the exceptions to the right of access if for some reason the system fails are very wide-ranging, the bound- and the answer is incomplete or in- sufficient, the citizen can appeal to the Committee for the Guarantee of “Transparency must the Right of Access to Public Infor- provide us with mation, which will certainly uphold their rights. And the Government tools, improve our of Catalonia would accept that institutions and decision, unlike the Spanish government, which has filed almost increase trust” one hundred appeals against its own advisory body, the Council of aries are more blurred and issues Transparency. such as lobbies are not regulated in the Law. If we want to understand We often see how political par- the complexity of the environment ties lack transparency with rein which decisions are made, it is gards to their inner workings. important that as much information Citizens may think that if they 12 Open Government

PROFILE Raül Romeva i Rueda (born Madrid, 1971) holds a degree in Eco- nomics and a doctorate in International Relations. A member of the European Parliament for the Catalan ICV party (2004-2014), in 2015 he led the Junts pel Sí electoral list and was the Government of Cat- alonia’s Minister for Foreign Affairs, Institutional Relations and Trans- parency. He was re-elected as a member of the Catalan parliament for the ERC party in 2017. He has been held on remand accused of the crime of rebellion since 23 March 2018.

act like that, they will hardly be edly be able to work in a climate of committed to transparency pol- transparency and sincerity, notwith- icies when they are in govern- standing any justifiable exceptions. ment, will they? There is a very interesting author, In order to be able to trust some- Byung-Chul Han, who has consid- body, whether a party, an organi- ered this balance in some depth. In sation or an individual, they must his book The Transparency Society, not be completely closed off. If he summarises it using a very inter- you have the feeling that they are esting phrase: “trust is only possible hiding information or what they are in a state between knowing and not telling you isn’t true, it’s difficult for knowing.” you to trust them. However, once When you were a member of the European Parliament, did “Countries which you notice different practices have a more or attitudes among your foreign counterparts from countries transparent culture where transparency laws have are those with the been in force for many years? Yes, especially among colleagues highest levels of from Northern Europe, and not only trust and democratic in transparency but also in democratic culture, public participation quality” and accountability related to the public responsibilities that they hold you trust them you may have to be - areas in which we sadly we have a willing to accept that they won’t great deal of work to do. explain everything to you, and that they have their reasons for not Considering the use made of the explaining something to you. It is current open government policy difficult to strike this balance, but by some of the media, such as in any case, if we want to create a publishing politicians’ salaries, climate of trust, we must undoubt- don’t you think that these poli- Interview with Raül Romeva 13

cies often only encourage super- Register, which is a bureaucratic ficial discussions? burden on activists and small or- Didn’t we have those superficial dis- ganisations. Transparency must be cussions before? Didn’t people talk the same in all cases, for both large about politicians’ salaries over din- corporations and activists, because ner and on the Internet before the they all have an influence, but the Transparency Law? Transparency Government must be responsible for enables us to talk about real situa- publishing the agenda; that means tions rather than rumours. However, that small organisations or individ- it does not put an end to gossip uals, which do not have the same or demagogy, but maybe it makes resources as large corporations to meet new bureaucratic obligations, are not burdened with new bureau- “Transparency cratic obligations. enables us to talk Can open government and about real situations transparency policies be re- rather than rumours. versed? Recent years have seen reversals of rights and laws that However, it does not we used to think were fully con- put an end to gossip solidated. And here I’m including many issues related to your and demagogy” imprisonment. The best way to prevent any regres- these a bit more difficult. Once the sion is for all of us to be able to build information has been published offi- a Catalonia that is a benchmark for cially, the debate has to focus more its democratic quality. Our imprison- on the facts. ment is largely related to the fact that we have pursued this goal, and we Catalonia has legislated and will continue to do so. The real de- regulated the Register of Inter- sire behind republicanism is for more est Groups. However, this reg- freedom and more democracy. ulation makes no distinction between large companies and banks, like El Corte Inglés and La Caixa, and a local organisation with twenty partners. Isn’t it unfair that the different interest groups are treated the same, regardless of their importance? Yes, that’s one of the possible areas where the Law could be improved. Simona Levi, at Xnet, highlights this issue. The solution entails transparency as to agenda rather than of the 14 Open Government

Interview with Gemma Calvet, director of the Transparency Agency of the Barcelona Metropolitan Area (AMB) “We have a comprehensive, pioneering Law that is a model of good legislative practice” Gemma Calvet’s experience as a lawyer, as a member of Parliament and, above all, as a promoter of the Catalan Transparency Law, has placed her at the forefront of the body that is ensuring its implementation in the metropolitan area.

You sponsored the Transparen- Which international bench- cy Law. When you introduced the marks did you use and that we draft law, you said that, like so still have to consider in terms of many other laws, it could be im- transparency? English-speaking proved. How can it be improved? countries, for example? I believe that the emphasis is on We didn’t only look at those coun- the Transparency Law having been tries. However, the English-speak- passed with a broad political con- ing perspective is based on a vision sensus after two years of hard work, of integrity, of institutional integrity and although at that time it could be and good governance by means of said that there was room for improve- codes of conduct and ethics, but ment, today we can say that it is a also in the area of conflicts of in- very comprehensive and pioneering terest and issues related to active law and it is today a model of good publication, which reinforce criteria legislative practice for many countries, of transparency, and that guide especially European and Latin Amer- institutions such as Transparency ican countries. So, from the point of International, as well as interna- view of transparency and good gov- tional organisations such as the ernance, I believe we can say that the World Bank, the United Nations and Law is an effective instrument. even the European Union. Interview with Gemma Calvet 15 16 Open Government

In your opinion, what makes new item is the Register of Interest the Catalan Transparency Law Groups. I think that the Government more ambitious than the Span- of Catalonia’s decree to regulate ish Law? this was very important. However, What makes it more ambitious is this is an issue that requires a col- the fact that it broadens the number lective will in its incorporation in the of subjects bound by the Law and various organisations, municipalities places us within the contemporary and supralocal bodies like that of paradigm of public-private collabo- the metropolitan area. ration by introducing a requirement for transparency that is incumbent If we make the metropolitan on all institutions, including private area more transparent, given its institutions, that interact with or great complexity, will we have manage public funds, or interact passed the most important test? with services that are in the gen- When the AMB’s Transparency eral and universal interest. And Agency was established, an inter- that means adhering to the real nal body to ensure compliance with situation in the public realm of the the Law was created. So, in the two twenty-first century, which involves building a paradigm for collabora- tion between the public and private “The penalty sectors, in which the transparency system guarantees requirement for all social actors has a uniform and harmonised that it is no mere raison d’être. All of this cannot be formality but instead achieved overnight, because it is a requirement that needs some years must be to be implemented. Although per- observed” sonally, I think that we are generally making very good progress. and a half years since it has been Any other new features? operational, a whole range of mech- That’s one. The other is the penal- anisms have been launched, such ty system. In my opinion, this is a as the memorandum on the right of law that, thanks to its new penal- access, procurement transparency ty system, guarantees that it is no clauses, both mandator, a gender mere formality, but instead must be equality programme, an active pub- observed. And although the penal- lication system and a statement on ty system is a last resort and has regulations with interest groups, to be used as a final measure, it is among other things. So, a number true that it involves a level of regu- of instruments have been created in latory requirement that is different that respect to ensure real change from other types of law such as the in opacity, transparency and legal Spanish one, which does not in- certainty, because citizens need clude such a measure. And the third to know that the metropolitan Interview with Gemma Calvet 17

area runs services that are very agement. It is indirect governance important for them, since it takes from the democratic point of view, in thirty-six municipalities working since it is the thirty-six mayors in together through an agreement for the metropolitan area who govern, mutual cooperation, financing and although the structure is ultimately management of those services. run by the specialists and the area But besides all that, they are also director rather than the politicians. committed to absolute transparency both in procurement and in the They do not have as much management of public funds. knowledge of the day-to-day workings. Some experts say that it is much As a result, the major challenge more difficult to monitor and for the Transparency Agency is for oversee large cities than small the metropolitan area to be able to villages. Is passing the test as adapt its dynamics of management, a metropolitan area particularly finance and decision-making to our significant? contemporary world. We could say The Barcelona metropolitan area is that, over almost three years, we one of the most complex adminis- have succeeded in introducing trative bodies in Spain today, be- and designing a whole range of cause it is the only metropolitan area mechanisms, but we still have to anywhere in Spain –there are plenty implement them. So, we have a lot in Europe and around the world–. It of work left to do in the metropol- employs a supralocal governance itan area. model that has been subject to excessive self-regulation, and it was And is the reluctance to change, as a result of the new paradigm of open government and trans- “The municipalities parency, more marked in the in the metropolitan metropolitan area because of all this complexity that we’ve been area are committed discussing? to absolute trans- I think the reluctance is the same. We’re talking about a very parency both in deep-rooted administrative culture. procurement and in However, the impact is different, because the everyday workings of the management of sectors such as mobility, the envi- public funds” ronment and urban planning –areas that the metropolitan area adminis- ters in all thirty-six municipalities– re- created as a kind of administrative quire a great deal of public procure- oasis, with a major budgetary im- ment to take place very quickly on pact and a high level of financial a day-to-day basis, and therefore management and resource man- the decision-making procedure has 18 Open Government

PROFILE Gemma Calvet (born Barcelona, 1966) is a lawyer, consultant and political analyst. A graduate in law and the holder of a European Master’s degree in social policies and human rights, she has been a lawyer for objectors to military service, social movements and pris- oners. She was Director General for Drug Addiction for the Basque Government (2000-2003) and a deputy in the Catalan Parliament for ERC-Catalunya (2012-2015). She sponsored the Transparency Law, and has been the director of the Transparency Agency of the AMB since 2015.

to be delegated and decentralised. as their expenses, as these must be This means that all of those powers listed in a way that is much more that the management currently has accessible. It is also very important will have to be diluted in order to benefit another model of administrative management that is not as “The outstanding central or personalised, and which issue is for political does not have so much administrative power from the financial point of parties to make a view. The workings of public pro- much greater curement in the metropolitan area must be adapted to suit the profile commitment to of a government body, which could transparency be a municipal council or of another type. And that means internal re- on their websites” forms, which are already underway. to increase the allocation of pub- In 2017 the Anti-Fraud Office of lic grants to aid the work of both Catalonia condemned the lack municipal groups and metropolitan of transparency in the founda- and parliamentary groups. And in tions of political parties. Can that respect, institutions such as the citizens expect politicians to be Public Audit Office for Catalonia, the transparent if they can see that Court of Auditors, the Committee they’re not even transparent for the Guarantee of the Right of within their own parties? Access to Public Information and I believe that the outstanding is- AMB’s Transparency Agency have sue for all institutions in Catalonia, issued instructions aimed at rein- Spain and elsewhere is for political forcing transparency. parties to make a much greater commitment to transparency on Is the empowerment of citizens their websites and to publish what in recent years (the 15-M move- those in senior posts earn, as well ment, the Catalan independence Interview with Gemma Calvet 19

process, etc.) the ideal back- antee and transparency bodies, like drop to also stake a claim to AMB’s Transparency Agency, the everything surrounding the new Anti-Fraud Office and the recently paradigm of transparency? established Spanish network of It is very important that citizens do guarant or bodies must work effi- not break the bond of trust with de- ciently, not only with words, but also mocracy, with the public realm and with actions. with politics. Transparency is the bridge to credibility. So, at a time that is so worrying in Europe, where some citizens are shifting towards alternatives on the extreme right, it

“It is important that citizens do not break the bond of trust with politics. Transparency is the bridge to credibility” is more important than ever that this transparency and this good governance provides certainties and credibility for citizens, so that they can believe that the system really is working properly, despite its imperfections. And that is essential right now.

These are worrying times. Corruption and democratic disen- chantment are some of the causes of xenophobia. And today, it is very important to channel this in another direction at a time when citizens are using the right of access to public information to take an active role in the public realm, and also with regards to the traceability of public money. And that’s a job for everyone. But obviously, the guar- 20 Open Government

Interview with Carlos Guadián, expert in open government and participation “There is a long way to go in open government”

A specialist in open government and participation, Carlos Guadián outlines the benefits, the resistance, and even the perversions behind a paradigm shift that is gradually transforming the government.

What stage are we at in terms of World Wide Web, established five open government? levels in relation to open data. A lot of progress has already been made in terms of opening up gov- What are they? ernment bodies and making them The first level, the basic one, would more transparent to the public, be a PDF or a file containing the especially in the oversight of their data, while level five is linked data. activities, but it’s true that although What would be ideal in the budget some work has been done, there is for a municipality would be to be still a long way to go. And in many able to click on expenses to obtain cases, some things only happen be- a breakdown and from there be cause of the obligation to comply able to go as far as the final invoice. with certain laws. This can be seen That way we could see who was in the fact that almost all the towns paid, under what conditions, with and cities in Catalonia have trans- a link to the associated tender, etc. parent and open data portals that Data that give the information a are often templates –provided by specific context is what provides the Open Administration Consorti- an overall global perspective. um of Catalonia– with data for each municipality, although the data often And are citizens aware of the lack context and are disconnected. tools they could be using? Be- Regarding transparency and open cause if you provide them with data, Tim Berners-Lee, father of the data, but they’re not consulted… Interview with Carlos Guadián 21 22 Open Government

At the moment, the public doesn’t presented interesting projects, like know that a government body is investigating the main accident transparent and gives citizens the blackspots in Barcelona, locating tools they need to monitor what the them, making heat maps, etc. administration does. It shouldn’t depend on whether these tools are Which countries are the leaders used on a massive basis by the in open government which we citizens or not. It’s also true that should be looking at? not everyone has the knowledge On the one hand, there are the or skills to put things into context English-speaking countries, which and investigate. That’s why there have always been very conscious are journalists, organisations like about access to data. Evidence Civio and neighbourhood associa- of this tradition is the very first epi- tions that have the knowledge and sode of the 1980s British comedy resources to analyse data files. series Yes, Minister, entitled ‘Open government.’ And as well as this This all means that everyone English-speaking tradition, there are needs to change the way they the Nordic countries, which have al- think and start being more pro- ways recognised citizens’ rights in active. the area of information. And from This is already becoming apparent there, and especially when Obama among civil servants, with organi- was elected to the White House sations like the Public Innovation Network, for example, which works towards innovation and changing “Rather than this mentality within the government progress in public bodies themselves. They are working in a different way, with more participation, what broad-based teams, etc., but citi- has happened in re- zens are the key factor. Citizens are often not aware of everything they cent years is actually could be doing. In 2017, Barcelona a regression” City Council launched a Barcelona programme for open data in col- laboration with some secondary –a turning point, as he made open schools so that students could government the cornerstone of his complete projects and make pro- government– the idea of open gov- posals for the city. ernment has expanded. It was the logical development of the work And so get used to working with that had been done up to that time open data. in government and electronic ad- It’s a very good way to train people ministration, where technology was because, as school students grow being applied in the government in up, they become aware of these order to give citizens a central role data repositories. The students in management. Interview with Carlos Guadián 23

At a provincial council seminar launched a proposal called “1001 in May 2017, you said that public Ideas to Improve the Administra- participation had developed to a tion”, so that people could send much lesser extent than trans- in their ideas and vote on them. parency policies and access to We got a lot of participation, and information. the winning idea was the abolish- The issue of participation is a sensi- ment of the employment status of tive one, particularly when consid- civil servants. And that’s because ered from the perspective of differ- some types of participation can ent government bodies. Rather than be manipulated, especially digital progress in public participation lev- participation, where a small group els, what has happened in recent years is actually a regression. “Opening up data Why? has proved to be Because there is less scope for public participation. There have beneficial and been experiences in which the provides economic public has made a decision, such as whith the survey about the tram returns. In the long line on Avinguda Diagonal, one of term, it leads to Barcelona’s most important streets, which ended up being won by an savings” alternative that wasn’t even on the table. Citizens should obviously be consulted and they must be of people can make a lot of noise involved, but they often don’t have and distort reality. So, this partici- the knowledge or the resources to pation must be enhanced because be able to make the best decisions it is very important, but it must be for the municipality or society as a a thermometer and only used as a whole. reference point when making decisions. That is why there has been And when that’s the case, oth- a regression, because this partic- ers can take advantage of the ipation is being streamlined to a situation for their own benefit. much greater extent. It’s no longer Some time ago, during the Oba- as open and innocent. ma presidency, the United States created a platform in which people There’s less naivety. made proposals to be brought to Exactly. Because over time, you re- the Senate, and that led to the alise that manipulation is possible legalisation of marijuana, which by a group of people, by a specific is now a hot topic in the United interest group... those who end up States and Canada, as well as in participating are those who really other countries. At that time, I was have a direct interest in a particular working at a consultancy and we result. 24 Open Government

A request for the right to access of people from having to look for involves a cost for the admin- specific information that has been istration but is free for citizens. requested, which saves time and Bearing in mind that public human resources spent on adminis- funds are limited, to what ex- tration that can be devoted to other tent should some limitations be things. So, this is an initial internal established in order to prevent benefit within the administrations abuse? themselves which, in the long term, Right now, collapse is not going will lead to savings in budgets. to happen because the number of requests for access are minimal. Are there any figures that prove That’s because the barriers people it? come up against are quite signifi- There is evidence to back this up cant and requests for information in Canada and in the United States, are often denied. There are some for example, where significant sav- very strong filters on access to infor- ings have been reported. mation that should be removed so that people can find it easier. In some cases, instead of in- creasing trust in the Govern- Is there any evidence of the real ment, couldn’t open government benefits of opening up public have a perverse effect and en- data? courage gossip with everything Opening up public data has proved that entails? to be beneficial and provides eco- There may be a bit of everything. It may have a perverse effect, although it can also encourage over- “A few years ago sight of the public realm. in Spain, as the But more transparency can levels of transparen- mean more information, that cy increased, trust in brings political scandals to light. And that will affect citizens’ politicians declined” trust in the government. Data from the World Bank and from nomic returns. Firstly because of Europe, that analyse levels of trust the economic ecosystem it gen- in politicians and levels of transpar- erates when new actors become ency, show that in countries like involved in putting this data to use. France, Germany and the United But also, because it involves tidy- Kingdom there is a tendency for ing things up, since the countless the level of trust in politicians to in- databases scattered across the var- crease as the level of transparency ious government bodies have to be also increases. That isn’t the case standardised and brought together. here, however. A few years ago in Procedures are thus automatically Spain, as the levels of transpar- established that prevent a number ency increased, trust in politicians Interview with Carlos Guadián 25

PROFILE Carlos Guadián (born Barcelona, 1969) has a diploma in public management and administration and a degree in political sciences. He has coordinated oGov, a platform dedicated to open government, and is a member of organisations including the Open Knowledge Foundation, the Public Innovation Network, the Technological Circle of Catalonia and the Barcelona Open Data Initiative. He has written or contributed to books on open government, participation and digital democracy, and works in Ideograma, a political and corporate communications agency. declined. I’m sure if we looked at Yes. The more public data is, and the trend now, it would be changing. the more transparency there is, the However, when public information more difficult it is to hide corruption was first opened up, there were a within the administration itself. lot of political scandals that would Finally, who are the enemies of open government? “The more public Anyone who has an interest in cer- data is, and the tain data not being in the public do- main. And sometimes, we are the more transparency enemy due to not using these tools there is, the more we have at our disposal and not participating when we are asked difficult it is to hide to. So, citizens are often their own corruption within the worst enemy. administration” not have come to light without open data and an incipient transparency. However, what should happen is that, in addition to transparency, there needs to be more trust in politics, despite the perverse effect observed in the beginning.

In countries which have had years of open government, is there evidence to show a cor- relation between greater transparency and less political corruption? 26 Open Government

Interview with Karma Peiró, journalist “With greater transparency it is easier to reveal cases of corruption”

This journalist, a leading figure in data journalism, is well acquainted with the potential of data for her profession and the problems that still persist in obtaining data from the administration.

In December 2015, a year after problem. It’s not that the adminis- compliance with the Transpar- tration hasn’t done its homework, ency Law became mandatory, because it has; it’s that citizens you wrote an article in which haven’t learned that they have this you said that “public institutions right. The fact is that it’s an environ- are satisfied, but citizens make ment that’s very difficult to enter. Be- little use of it.” What’s the situ- cause for years, decades and even ation like today? centuries, citizens were used to the We’re still in the same situation. It’s idea that only the government could been three years since the Law have access to certain information, was passed, and two years since not the citizens themselves. compliance has been mandatory, and I’d say that the administrations That they don’t have the right. are more or less satisfied with what Yes, because the government con- they’ve done, although citizens trols it. It’s like when the media have don’t make use of it. a scoop. And in any case, citizens will only ask for what the authorities It’s easy to say that if the public let them ask for. What we now have doesn’t use it, it’s not the admin- to do is make the public aware… istration’s fault. Exactly. When I give talks, I always …that it has the right to access say that communication is the all of this information. Interview with Karma Peiró 27 28 Open Government

Another factor comes into play at vide the information and that if it’s this point. How do citizens ask to incomplete the citizen can report see public information? And is it them! That’s obviously a big change easy or difficult? At the moment, it’s in attitude. very difficult to make these queries. As a result, people obviously give In your article, you quoted Edu- up at the first obstacle and forget ard Gil, an expert in open data, about it. But we journalists forget who said: “If we don’t get the about it as well! We’re at the begin- public involved, we’re just doing ning of a process and we need the it for the sake of appearances, institutions to mature. The internal which doesn’t lead anywhere.” discussions in the administration on If we focus on Catalonia and its gov- compliance with the Law are incred- ernment, I can only praise the Sec- ible because it means they have to retariat of Transparency’s goodwill change their entire way of working. and positive attitude for the steps it is taking. Whether it takes root is That involves changing habits another question entirely. and a new working culture. Imagine a small town council where Is there transparency when po- just a few people have to do a lot of litical parties don’t publish their things, and they’re suddenly asked data or when a politician falsi- to do all this. And so of course, they fies their CV? ask for more resources. Another Among politicians, transparency has become fashionable, even among their publicists. You see “For years, decades it everywhere, but it’s not just a and centuries, word. Is there transparency when politicians are enhancing and even citizens were used to falsifying their CVs? Is there trans- the idea that only the parency when we see the corruption that affects a governing party? government could Of course, the Spanish government have access to says that it has planned and designed a number of transparency certain information” strategies to prevent corruption…

downside, internally, is that staff In the end they’re just headlines… must be trained in everything that You can have digital plans and strat- open administration entails. They egies, but then you have to be con- have to get used to the idea that sistent in terms of how your party’s citizens have the right to request in- politicians behave. And now people formation that previously only they are pretty tired of that. As Eduard had access to. And, what’s more, Gil said, maybe too much is being the Law says that the administra- done for the sake of appearances, tion has thirty working days to pro- and policies will lose all meaning Interview with Karma Peiró 29

if not applied. I’d separate all that level. It should also be made easier from the work that’s being done in for them to ask for the information. Catalonia according to the Trans- In some government bodies you parency Law. And it has to be said have to fill in a form and receive vir- that the Catalan Law was designed tual accreditation, which all takes time. Sometimes you even have “It’s very difficult to to physically go to an office. Let’s make it easier, please! make queries for public information. Has there been enough education about an open data culture? So obviously people I was working at an Internet provider give up” in 1995, but until social networks appeared in 2005, those of us that worked with the Internet were very to be much stricter than the Span- much in the minority. If we add a ish one. Even so, the Spanish Law few more years, in which people is not being complied with... And if took on board social networks, this we were to check compliance with means that we have only been net- the Catalan Law, we’d find some working massively for around eight shortcomings. In its latest report, years now. And suddenly, fake the Catalan Ombudsperson said news, big data, open data, artificial that small municipal councils are intelligence, etc. have arrived. We failing to comply 100%. If we look are going through a period of diffi- at whether public institutions –uni- cult change because we’re very an- versities, hospitals, etc.– post all alogue, and meanwhile, the digital the public information that the Law process is happening very quickly. stipulates, we see that this is not the We’re still a little green in that re- case. So, we need to be enquiring spect. The younger generations will and list everything that is lacking, take to all of this very naturally in and as citizens, pursue the adminis- the future. trations to make them publish what the Law says they have to. Some people think that, just because they can send an email, Do you think that the general look at WhatsApp and know public is aware of the paradigm how to search for something shift, or is it just a small group of on Google, they are digitally journalists and activists? cultured. But talking about open Obviously not, and it’s very difficult data means talking about many problem. I don’t know what we other things, doesn’t it? could do to make the Transparen- Yes, we’re also talking about de- cy Law a mainstream issue, but it mocracy and how we should get involves asking citizens to make an involved, or not, with where we live. effort and to learn what their rights And whether we have the right to under the Law are, even at a basic complain or not, or the sense that 30 Open Government

PROFILE Karma Peiró (born Barcelona, 1968) is a journalist specialising in technological issues. She was editor-in-chief of En.red.ando magazine, the chair of the Group of Digital Journalists (1999-2001) and head of participation at 324.cat and La Vanguardia Digital. She was co-or- ganiser of the Data Journalism and Open Data Seminars (2013-2015) and editor of Nació Digital (2015-2018) and she has also worked for various universities. She is currently joint director of the specialist diploma in Data Journalism and Visualization at Ramon Llull University.

each of us has of being fellow cit- a massive effort to understand the izens and of what our obligations complexity of the Transparency Law, and our rights are. to overcome the obstacles you find in your way, etc. Finally, when you An excess of data is also misin- get hold of the open data, you have formation. to see what format you have it in, Complete misinformation. You only whether it’s a PDF that cannot be need to remember when WikiLe- reused, whether you have to ask aks uploaded all those diplomatic cables on its website. I looked at those pages and thought: “what’s “We need to be on heart is this?” We didn’t under- enquiring and pursue stand what those documents meant until after a few major newspapers the administrations to had spent weeks, months, exam- make them publish ining them. what the Law says What stage is data journalism at they have to” and what effect is it having on the profession? Data journalism has always been the administration again, among a around, although the modern dig- whole host of other hurdles. ital tools and all the data available on the Internet is new for us. I’d like A whole series of problems. to say that it’s having a big effect So, imagine that a journalist gets on journalism as a profession, but lucky and gets hold of a spread- it isn’t, because journalists have to sheet with open data at the first make a massive self-taught effort time of asking. You still have to find to find out how the tools work and out what that spreadsheet means, obtain knowledge that was not know how to analyse the data, and taught anywhere until recently. And see whether there’s a story behind it. as well as that, you have to make In short, journalists tell stories, and Interview with Karma Peiró 31

when you have a possible story great deal of work to do to adapt thanks to the data, that’s when you to the press. have to go to the neighbourhood, find specific people and personal- In 2013, just before the Spanish ise the data. That’s data journalism. transparency law was passed, What data journalism isn’t is taking the data analysis specialist Mar data from a report and gattaching Cabra told Capçalera magazine it simply as a complement to a text. that the Law would increase investigative journalism. Has that The pace of the administration happened? and the press regarding re- I don’t know what people expected, quests for information are very but I agree with what Mar Cabra different. said, and I want to highlight interest- At a seminar, the Committee for the ing experiences like Civio, a public Guarantee of the Right of Access to platform with journalists, program- Public Information, which ensures mers and statisticians, among oth- that the public administration re- ers, who are bringing some very sponds to a request for information, interesting cases to light, and Dat- adista, a journalism project that has shed light on a case of corruption “Talking about open on the Mediterranean coast. Those data also means are examples of what can be done, and we can learn a lot from them. talking about They are initiatives with very limited democracy, resources, with activists who are passionate and convinced in de- and how we should nouncing corruption. get involved, or not, Does more transparency mean with where we live” less corruption? Let’s say that with greater trans- complained that it didn’t receive any parency it’s easier to reveal cases requests from journalists, and that of corruption. And with more trans- the press didn’t use the Transpar- parency and more tools to bring ency Law. Perhaps that’s true, but cases to light, there is an interest in I don’t want it to have many com- pursuing and reporting corruption. If plaints from journalists either, since the public is also aware and knows that would mean the administration that it has mechanisms provided by was not working properly. What I the Law, it will be more difficult to mean is that if a journalist ends up be corrupt. at the Committee, it is because three months have passed since the request. And when the Commit- tee response arrives, it’s been half a year... The administration has a 32 Open Government

Interview with Carles Ramió, expert in management and public institutions “Up to now, the administration has behaved like a secret society”

An expert on the inner workings of public administrations, he em- phasises that efficiency and effectiveness are not in themselves sufficient to make them socially and politically legitimate. According to this expert, the administration has not yet become fully digital.

Does the paradigm shift in open much more important than it seems government and transparency because it directly affects the sys- policies involve a different way tem’s legitimacy. In this country we of understanding the administra- have had sufficiently effective and tion or understanding politics? fluid public administrations to pro- Both of those things. In principle, vide high-quality public services it seems to be more of a technical that are efficiently managed. Public issue with the administration, but administration theorists have said everything that affects the Admin- for years that there is a problem of istration also has a political founda- political and social legitimacy and tion. So, it’s as much political as it is that it is necessary to provide good technical. But transparency seems services in order to achieve this le- to be something new, when in fact gitimacy. there have been transparency laws all over the world for years. The To make people happy. first one, in Sweden, dates back to Well, we’ve done that now, but we 1766. Spain was the last… have even less legitimacy than we used to. And that means that public

…in the western world. management is not only legitimised Along with Malta, Cyprus and the by the quality of services and effi- Vatican City. All of the Latin Ameri- ciency. Here, two variables come can countries have had such a law into play: first, we have a complicat- for a long time. Transparency is ed social culture in both Catalonia Interview with Carles Ramió 33 34 Open Government

and Spain because we have a bu- ed, modern and meritocratic. Those reauphobic society, to some extent are major flaws in our administration. allergic to public institutions, and secondly, in Catalonia more so, as Of which we have quite a few. we have an institutional culture with Quite a few, so it’s not enough for us even shallower roots. So however to provide good and efficient public well it works, people don’t value it. services, instead, the public administration must also make an effort And why is that? to become appealing, to be attrac- Because the administration is as- tive to society. That is achieved by sociated with nineteenth-century transparency, accountability and Spain, with the classic response of the assessment of public policies, “come back tomorrow”, as if it had which are things that we had very not been modernised. The lack of little of until very recently. And until legitimacy, and political conflict and recently, the public administration corruption, affect its image, which is hid behind a curtain and, of course, a problem. People don’t like bureau- the public was puzzled. Up to now, cracy in abstract terms, but they do the administration has behaved like specific aspects because they like a secret society, as if they were speak highly of the services pro- freemasons. And when you put a vided for them, unlike European up curtain, people become suspi- cious and ask: “Why are they hiding? Is it because of nepotism? Is it “Transparency is because they’re corrupt?” First of much more important all, citizens want to know how and why decisions are taken, and who than it seems, takes them, and second, what the because it directly money is spent on, down to the last cent. So, my idea of transparency affects the system’s is very simple: the public wants to legitimacy” know these things. Those are the two key issues.

citizens. And we could ask: what The key to political control. have the countries around us done That means seeing the deci- to legitimise their public administra- sion-makers’ agendas. And not just tion that we haven’t done? And the the institutional agenda, but also answer is: transparency, accounta- who they talk to, who they go to bility and the assessment of public lunch with, and who’s called them. policies. As well as other associated Transparency must be complete in factors, like a public management that respect. I like the transparen- statute, less clientelism high up in cy around the White House, where the administration, and public ad- everything is visible and where jour- ministration recruitment systems nalists can walk around unimpeded that are much more highly regulat- and see who’s visiting the President Interview with Carles Ramió 35

of the United States. Everything has And citizens want to understand. to be fully documented and certi- To do that, you have to analyse, fied, everything is recorded so that and cost things and present them everything there can be checked. as if in a household budget. These things are impossible to determine Obama tried to implement open right now. But if you can, then the transparency and government culture changes. We have a number that went beyond the White of customs here, which are perfectly House. ethical and legal, but which citizens Yes, but you can be transparent with don’t like. data and opaque in decision-making and where the money goes. A Like what? great deal of progress has been Like working lunches. People don’t made in Catalonia in that respect. like them. I always tell the story that, But since we haven’t chosen the when I was director of the Public most progressive law possible, and Administration School of Catalonia, since there is some resistance to its I hosted the director of the Irish implementation, we still don’t know School. After a work meeting that the few things that citizens want to had lasted four hours, I invited him know. Because the critical issue is to an institutional lunch. He was un- knowing what the money is spent comfortable and said that things like on, down to the last cent. And we that didn’t happen in his country. I don’t know that. Public budgets are didn’t pay much attention to that, very formal accounting systems that but afterwards, when the director of the Italian school came…

“The administration …he said the same thing. has to be attractive. And when an Italian was concerned, that made me very wor- That’s achieved by ried and I also began to think transparency, about what was happening. The thing is that in those countries they accountability and have to render account, they are the assessment of totally transparent with expenses. And the public don’t view those public policies” working lunches in a favourable light. So, they don’t have them. don’t say how much things cost, And because they are completely so citizens don’t understand them. transparent, they are viewed much Not even the public operators un- more favourably by society, which derstand them. And people want establishes the rules. And that’s to know how much things cost. how you change your political and Being completely transparent with institutional culture, because, ulti- expenses stops corruption almost mately, the citizens are the ones automatically. in charge. 36 Open Government

PROFILE Carles Ramió (born Girona, 1963) is a specialist in public management and institutions in southern Europe and Latin America. He is a professor of Political and Administration Science at the UPF, where he has been vice-rector and dean of the Faculty of Political Science and Public Management. He was president of the Consortium for the Evaluation of Public Policies (2006-2007) and director of the Public Administration School of Catalonia (2007-2011). He is the author of some fifteen books.

Between participatory and di- direct participation systems. They rect democracy, which is best are unable to deal with complex for decision-making? Do citi- problems, motives are spurious so zens have enough knowledge they return very strange and uneven and sound judgement? results. Participation is here to stay, The administration has plenty of data and the technological systems to make them public, but they are “Being completely complex data that are incompre- transparent with hensible to citizens. Open data are usually like that. But there are so- expenses stops cial intermediaries who will analyse corruption almost them. They are people who do it for ethical and civic reasons. automatically”

And will they then be able to but for decision-making in smaller participate properly? and more cohesive societies, fac- Maybe our perspective of par- ing more immediate problems. I see ticipation is slightly naive. More participation as happening more lo- participation doesn’t mean more cally, at a neighbourhood level. quality or better decision-making. In fact, I always joke that perhaps Are codes of conduct for people we need less participation. I’m in senior positions important, or not at all convinced about referen- just for appearance’s sake? dums. Lately, every time a referen- They are very important, as long dum takes place somewhere in they’re not just for appearance’s the world, the result is the reverse sake. The Catalan ethics oversight of what common sense dictates. committee for senior government Brexit, for example, or the referen- officials is completely internal and dum on the peace agreements in is made up of senior officials and Colombia. Josep Maria Colomer some senior civil servants. By con- wrote that in heterogeneous and trast, in the Basque Country they large societies there is no place for have a mixed committee where, in Interview with Carles Ramió 37

addition to the minister and sen- its front office and the way it inter- ior officials, there are some highly acts with citizens for the better, but respected external members. The the back office, the rest of the ad- Government of Catalonia’s com- ministration, has been oblivious to mittee might work very well, but the one in the Basque Country has more credibility. It’s a question of “Maybe our image. You have to be transparent perspective is slightly and be seen to be transparent. naive. More partici- Open government and transpar- pation doesn’t mean ency are related to digital technologies, but some citizens are more quality or better still very analogue. Could the decision-making” situation arise where we have some citizens who are more active than others depending the changes. They still work as they on their digital knowledge? did forty years ago. So, we have a People always talk about the digi- modern window but a kitchen that tal divide, but time overcomes that. is a real mess. There is resistance Who doesn’t use digital technol- and inertia, and we have allowed ogies these days? All young peo- technologists, computer scientists ple do. A lot of older people have and consultants to set the agenda, picked it up. It goes without saying when in reality the agenda should that the Internet and smartphones be political and led by reformist and have played an enormous role in innovative managers. breaking down the divide; so, although analogues will always be there, they will increasingly be a minority. I’m not so concerned about the digital divide as I am about the digital transition of the public administration.

So, open government doesn’t exist. The public administration has been investing in ICTs for over twenty years. ICTs and 2.0 have had a seismic effect, but when it affects a company, this either changes the way it works or it goes out of business. But what happened when the earthquake affected the government? Well, it drastically changed 38 Open Government

Interview with Iolanda Fresnillo, sociologist “The Transparency Law has not been communicated well”

Iolanda Fresnillo’s experience and knowledge is such that she can attest that the Transparency Law still has plenty of loopholes. And she concludes that the Government –and citizens– still have a lot of work to do.

Is there a new concept of ad- And what’s more, they think that ministration and a new way of you’ll manipulate the information relating to the public underpin- they give you. There’s certainly this ning the Transparency Law, or fear in certain parts of the public is it just a trite slogan? administration. The Transparency Law is a step forward because it imposes obliga- A fear of losing status? tions on the administration, but po- A fear of being questioned and sub- litical will is fundamental. Change in ject to oversight. Until now, they’ve the public administration is a matter done their work without anyone tell- of change in attitude of the structure ing them what to do, and they’ve of the public administration. And I’m only had to answer to a politician. not only thinking in political terms, But from now on, they will also have but also technicals terms, where to answer to the public. And obvi- you sometimes find even more ob- ously, there’s political will, but until stacles… you touch a nerve. Whenever you ask for information about a topic …more reluctance...? that doesn’t suit them or informa- Yes, because there are those who tion that they don’t want to give, view you as someone who wants the Transparency Law becomes to check on the work they’ve been an obstacle. doing for years, as a citizen who knows nothing about the subject. Can a law like this one help cre- Interview with Iolanda Fresnillo 39 40 Open Government

ate transformational culture, or were very unsatisfactory from the is it just a part of the machinery point of view of the quality of the needed to achieve that? information. The Law is part of the machinery needed for a transformational cul- Wasn’t what they gave you use- ture, but even so, many other parts ful? are needed. It wasn’t that it wasn’t useful, it’s that there was a lack of respect Headlines are very easy some- because the response was as a times, but ultimately the admin- PDF where you couldn’t select the istration is very large and chang- links. I had to type them out myself. es are slow, isn’t that right? They haven’t even thought about fa- Yes. The administration is very cilitating things for me as a citizen slow when it comes to accept- who also represents a platform. In one of their answers, they said that the request for information was not “The Law is part of specific enough, and that they were the machinery filing the request. End of conversa- tion. According to them, they are needed for a complying with the Law. transformational cul- And why doesn’t a society as ture, but many other active and empowered as Cat- parts are needed” alan society use the tools that the Law provides? Because it isn’t easy. If a person ing change, especially to the ex- who’s trying to access certain in- tent that is needed. Many people formation isn’t extremely motivated in the administration, in both the and super-organised, they’ll give up technical and political areas, have straight away. You have to physi- accepted the Transparency Law in cally go to a government office to the sense that they now have to register so that they can identify you, provide the information that they and that’s already a major obstacle. previously had all to themselves. However, they think that it doesn’t Do you think we have to take matter how they provide this infor- control of the new paradigm mation, in what format, etc. If the of transparency, or does the aim of the Law is to make all as- administration still need to do pects of the public administration more work? accessible to citizens, it implies The thing is that the Transparency much more than that. My two ex- Law is much more than just the periences of requesting information Transparency Portal. For example, using the Government of Catalo- it means that the administration by nia’s Transparency Portal have default must have certain data in been negative, as the responses the portal, available both in a way Interview with Iolanda Fresnillo 41

that is easy to understand and as As a communication consultant, raw data. I want to be able to ac- do you think the Transparency cess a budget from the City Coun- Law has been communicated cil or the Government of Catalonia, well? listed as raw figures and in an Excel It certainly hasn’t been explained to do my calculations, or, if I don’t well; but if it had been, it would have the necessary knowledge, to have been worse, as it would have receive infographics that mean I frustrated citizens greatly. If people can understand it. That’s the spirit were more proactive, they would behind the Law. come up against a wall, and that

The Spanish government has traditionally been very opaque. “At the beginning of Other countries did not have our democracy, forty years of Francoism. Yes, but it’s not just because of the a very tightly-closed culture of Francoism. At the begin- public administration ning of our democracy, a very tightly-closed public administration was was created that created that only opens up when only opens up when the public insists. the public insists” When it is forced to. Exactly. For example, in the Eng- leads to frustration. And maybe lish-speaking world the ease with that’s what we need, for people to which people speak not only to get angry. In fact, the Law has not people on the same side but also been communicated well because to political opponents is in stark there is a great deal of ignorance contrast with the closed doors we about how to use it, even among have here. When we made a re- social movements. Proof of that is quest to the political groups in the when a platform we created used Catalan Parliament, we asked to the Transparency Law to ask for meet all of them. However, the only information, to find out what was ones who answered were those behind the construction of the Se- in favour of the proposal, and that garra-Garrigues canal. We had to doesn’t make any sense. We must consult lawyers to find out how to try to convince the others! And in ask the question so that they would this country, unlike in others, there answer us, and that just doesn’t are no systematic assessments of make any sense. public policy. That has to do with the lack of transparency; they Without the administration be- don’t bother to assess what they ing audited by the public, this do, even internally. So, if they don’t won’t change, right? do it, why should they explain it to Of course. If the administration is anyone else? not watched, kept on their toes 42 Open Government

and questioned by citizens and so- of our people have ended up in in- cial movements, they stay stuck in stitutional positions, among other their comfort zone. They don’t even places. Some of them are at Bar- leave it when there’s some interac- tion. We ask them for information about unusual issues such as debt “The lack of a sys- and public finances, a very sensitive tematic evaluation issue for government bodies, and they think that people won’t under- of public policies is stand it, they’ll misinterpret it and related to the lack of that would be worse. transparency” That shows a mistrust of the citizens. celona City Council, the institution Yes, totally. Mistrust and underesti- we asked for data on the council’s mation. I’ve been working on public debt. Initially we rubbed our hands, debt for the last twenty years, so I as they promised us that we would know as much about it as they do. have this information and they ac- Hand over the information, because cepted a debt audit as part of the I’m entitled to it! Municipal Action Plan. But nothing happened. We have asked for it, Activists also tend to view the demanded it, and we still don’t have administration and the polit- the data. I don’t trust it at all. ical class with mistrust. Can the Transparency Act improve That can lead to frustration, but this situation, or is the mistrust the message is that you have to chronic? keep fighting? This mistrust is not a strong founda- You have to keep fighting, although tion to build on, but that’s the way there must be change in the polit- it is. It couldn’t be any other way. ical culture, which is slower. How I’ll give you an example: the Debt do you change the political culture Audit Platform in Barcelona isn’t in municipal councils? For example, very active anymore because most by developing bolder strategies for

PROFILE Iolanda Fresnillo (born in Barcelona, 1973) has a degree in sociolo- gy and a Master’s degree in cooperation and development. She is the campaign and communications coordinator at the Globalisation Debt Observatory, a member of the Citizen Debt Audit Platform and a consultant on issues of development finance, international relations, geopolitics and communication. She works at the consultancy cooperative Ekona. Interview with Iolanda Fresnillo 43

participation and real democracy, The Transparency Law asks the such as binding participatory budg- same things of a multinational ets. Processes that, gradually, over company as it does of a local the years, help to change the po- association. Is this a distortion litical culture of that administration. of the Law, or is there some logic to it? Do citizens have enough tools It has a logic that needs to be to implement participatory de- changed. In reality, the Transpar- mocracy? ency Law not only entails commit- No. People need tools to be able ments for the public administration, to participate. I’ve been involved but also for companies and institu- in participatory budget process- tions that receive grants and public es where, instead of voting on a funds, subventions, etc. However, series of proposed projects, we the resources and the necessary worked with neighbourhood asso- oversight have not been put in ciations and other organisations at place. For example, there are in- face-to-face meetings, explaining stitutions that suddenly received the budget and what could and grants and then found that they could not be proposed. That’s a had to make a superhuman effort to specialist job, that can be com- comply with the Law. And they did plemented by digital democracy, it, often without the support of the especially in Barcelona. But you administration, as required by the have to lay the groundwork first, Law. On the other hand, there are because in the same way as there those with more resources, such as businesses or business foundations, which also have to do it… “There needs to be a change of culture We are seeing political regres- sions in terms of rights that ap- in the administration peared to be firmly established. and a change in Are transparency laws here to stay, or is there a danger that political culture one day they will be abolished? among citizens” I was one of those people who thought they were here to stay and that we could only move forwards needs to be a change of culture from here. However, lately I’ve be- in the administration, there also gun to doubt everything. I think we needs to be a change in educa- have to defend them, that we must tion and political culture among fight for them, that they can be en- the citizens. Participating isn’t dangered. just saying yes or no, it’s also the desire to understand if something is possible or not, how everything works, etc. 44 Open Government

Interview with David Fernàndez, journalist and social activist “Ineffective transparency is propaganda”

The former member of the Catalan Parliament for CUP, one of the most respected current voices of the alternative left, reflects on transparency as a result of his experience in social movements and having sponsored the Law.

You are well-known as someone privacy for our personal and private who often uses quotes, so we’ll life, but this seems to have been start with one from the activist turned on its head, doesn’t it? movement: “Sunlight is the best disinfectant.” We are now more exposed than That’s a phrase that was very com- ever. mon in the process involved in intro- Self-exposed, because we expose ducing the Transparency Law, and it ourselves publicly. And we have refers to the entire culture of abuse, called for transparency not in a nor- greed for money and lust for power. mal democratic context, but instead in the middle of the greatest crisis of And opacity. confidence we have ever known in Yes, because the abuse of power democracy and the institutions, and is done behind closed doors, it’s with the metastasis of corruption. fundamentally opaque, it requires And therefore, rather than a crisis silence and very little light. And of transparency, there has been a parallel environments, where deci- massive mistrust of authority. And sions are made. Power has always just like Google, they have all our been like that, hasn’t it? It’s virtually data, and no laws. Machiavellian. I don’t know if we’ve shed some light like the sun as dis- Isn’t ineffective transparency no infectant, or if we’ve struck a match transparency at all? in a darkened room. But it’s good It’s propaganda. Sweden’s Trans- logic. Transparency has a twofold parency Law, the oldest, dates logic. Under normal conditions, it’s back to 1766, and here we passed a claim, to power above all. And on ours, shortly after the Spanish one, the other hand, it’s a demand for as a result of the crisis. So there Interview with David Fernàndez 45 46 Open Government

has been no political will, and it we were still writing up this draft law has come after forty years of dic- in 2013 and 2014. And I remember tatorship, which were forty years of that two stumbling blocks always systematic and systemic corruption came up: private companies that based on clientelism and nepotism. provide public services (telephone, water, gas, electricity, etc.) and per- You were part of the political sonal data. And we voted against it class that attempted to win because we thought it didn’t go far some trust among citizens, and enough, because it had too many so you introduced the Law. How restrictions, too many exceptions much of it was posturing and and too many vague legal con- how much of it was real polit- cepts. They announced it as a very ical will? ambitious law, although it ended up That’s a very good question. I think as window dressing or as you say, that as a systemic response, it was posturing. There are still some areas a question of pure necessity, be- lacking transparency that are very cause they realised that there was difficult to find out about (financing a massive crisis and that they had and spending details for municipal to do something about it. In Febru- groups and the financing of the me- ary 2013, with massive publicity, 51 dia, for example), even though the measures against corruption and Law makes this information manda- for transparency were announced, and two and a half years later, the Anti-Fraud Office said that not even “We have called for 7% of these measures had been transparency in the fulfilled. Words blowing in the wind. There’s a side to politics which is middle of the greatest the spectacle of big headlines. But crisis of confidence then, when you look to see if we are more or less transparent today, in democracy and even though we have the right to the institutions ever access information and the tools for doing so, I think there is something known” of lip service, while another part is genuine. It is true that during the tory. The Catalan Ombudsperson’s process there were speakers from 2017 evaluation of transparency, other political backgrounds who access to information and good realised that the Law was neces- governance warned of stagnation sary, and that we were very late in in various areas, and persistent making these changes. shortcomings and deficiencies.

And that was healthy. What do you think about codes Yes. Even people who were com- of conduct for public adminis- pletely ideologically opposed to us trations? thought that it was shocking that Xavier Vinader always said that Interview with David Fernàndez 47

the fight against corruption is not gossip. For me, the only interesting a question of the judiciary or the thing about it is that shows who the police, but a fundamentally ethical political class really is, what profile struggle. So that means we are the people in Parliament have. If talking about a new political ethics we look at the average properties based on decency. Codes of con- and wealth of the 135 members of duct are therefore one instrument, the Catalan Parliament, they don’t but not the only one. Initially, if we represent 80% of the country. Nor look at it in positive terms, you’re do they represent even 50% of the reminding someone who holds a country, those who earn less than public position of what they can’t a thousand euros a month. do. So, it’s a defence of the boundaries, as that’s something they’re You’ve requested information. Is actually supposed to know from the the process too complicated? outset. Likewise it’s essentially an I must have made three or four re- acknowledgement. If we produce quests, and the experience has been a code of conduct it’s because a positive one. I’ve never been re- we know that maybe they don’t fused information, although they give behave like that, and we have to you as little information as possible constantly remind them of where and very isolated pieces. And it also the boundaries are. In that respect depends on how they give you the it’s appropriate. And since they ex- data, whether it is in open format or ist, they should be functional and not, if it’s reusable, etc. But should not simply a window dressing, be- we have to ask for the information, cause if it’s only symbolic and the or should we simply be able to find only reprimand is moral, there will it on a website and that’s it? Every definitely be impunity. time you ask for information, you’re letting them know you’re watching. When open government policies Víctor Lapuente, a researcher in invite gossip and superficial debate, don’t you think we’re just scratching the surface? “The system has sim- Yes, because it’s reduced to gossip plified and trivialised about how many properties someone owns or how much somebody the Transparency earns. When they did it to me, I was Law to knowing the poorest of all of them. However, the system itself has diluted, sim- details of how much plified and trivialised the Transpar- an individual ency Law to knowing details of how much an individual politician politician gets paid” gets paid. The system itself dis- empowers and disables this Law, government quality in Gothenburg, and renders it meaningless. We explains how, in Sweden, if you want have made it into reality show-style to know what the transactions on a 48 Open Government

public official’s credit card are, you education, training and information. make a phone call and it’s send But not information with two but- to you. Here you need electronic tons, one for yes and one for no - it must be the prior information. What needs to be decided? Who decides “We voted against what needs to be decided? What the Law because are the opposing interests? it had too many Peole making a lot of requests restrictions, excep- for information from a public administration with limited re- tions and vague sources can cause problems. legal concepts” Should there be any limitations? This debate came up during the debate about the Law. Some mem- identification, and you have to wait bers of Parliament called for an an- a month for their legal advisers to nual limit, and fortunately, no limit decide whether you’re fully or partial- was imposed in the end. Human ly entitled to it, and maybe if you’re nature is extremely ambivalent and lucky you’ll get an unreadable PDF... ambiguous, and is capable of good I’m not surprised that there aren’t and bad. So, any good law is open any requests! to abuse. When Manos Limpias or Vox abuse the private prosecution Let’s talk about citizens. Is the procedure, does that mean that pri- information that citizens have vate prosecution is a bad thing? No, enough to participate in real it’s still a very valuable tool in a jus- participatory processes? tice system based on participatory No. And that’s coming from a grass- dynamics. We have to accept the roots assembly activist who works risk. The fact is access to informa- in a cooperative. One of the inter- tion isn’t leading to an avalanche of national principles of cooperatives is ridiculous requests. What worried

PROFILE David Fernàndez (born Barcelona, 1974) is a journalist and activist. He is a member of the Coop57 cooperative, and a writer for and editor of Directa magazine. He was the spokesperson for the CUP in the Cat- alan Parliament (2012-2015), where he introduced the Transparency Law. He has written several books and, with Àlex Romaguera, has edited Llums i taquígrafs. Atles de la corrupció, el frau i la impunitat als Països Catalans (Lights and stenographers. An atlas of corruption, fraud and impunity in the Catalan Countries), published in 2016 by Llibres per la Unitat Popular and Edicions Pol·len. Interview with David Fernàndez 49

me about the parliamentary debate been very few cases, although is that it was used as an excuse. those who have taken the initiative have done a good job. People with It’s often difficult to see the a strong sense of activism and civ- results of the services or appli- ic culture. They are few, but they’re cations that have been created very active. thanks to open data. Is it rea- sonable to spend public funds Is the paradigm of a culture of –which are always limited– on transparency unstoppable? promoting it if the result is diffi- When Jair Bolsonaro won in Brazil, cult to see? Pepe Mújica, whom I admire very First of all, I can tell you that any much, said that there is no defeat work done is never a bad thing. It’s that lasts forever, and no victory that true that when we applied the Law, lasts forever. The fight is ongoing some of the institutions that experi- and constant. And in this country, enced the most stress were munici- either you establish limits on pow- pal councils, especially the smallest er and they pay attention, or the ones, who said they simply didn’t same thing happens again when have the resources to adress they’d your back is turned. And the same done in those years. Time will tell applies to rights. On the subject of if it’s been an investment that has transparency –in terms of public consolidated democracy by making power and, above all, its relations it more robust and transparent, or with the private realm– I hope that if, on the contrary, we’ve spent a lot the culture of democracy rather than the culture of transparency, will prevail. I’m very worried that the “I’m worried that culture of transparency is simply the the culture of reflection in the mirror of mistrust. Because then everything is reduced transparency is to a banal culture based on gos- simply the reflection sip, and that’s not transparency. Ultimately there are two dangers in the mirror of to any community: the tyrants who mistrust” want to order everyone around, and the thieves who want everything for themselves. And there are only two of money on bringing everything out extremely fragile tools to fight these: into the open for it not to get used political democracy and the ethics afterwards. of decency. And the day we forget, those is the day the tyrants and Most requests come from jour- thieves will come back. nalists, but have social movements been active as well? Initially, I’d say no, of course. Or at least I haven’t noticed. There have 50 Open Government

Interview with Begoña Román, PhD in Philosophy “Transparency without efficiency is distorted”

Behind open government, transparency and data, there are also ethics, morals and hazards to be taken into account. Begoña Román uses philosophy to analyse various aspects of the new paradigm.

Are transparency laws the result and immature that this only applied of a social demand or a political to the media. And then there’s been need? Or is it a combination of a demand from the public that they the two? don’t just want the right to informa- It’s a multilateral phenomenon, and tion about final decisions, but about therefore has multiple causes. It everything. In other words, about shows that as citizens we’re be- decision-making. coming aware that we have the right to participate. And participation in- The Transparency Law includes volves information, and that means moral terms like ‘transparency’ being much more proactive and giv- and ‘good governance’ that ing the information that we’re being entail respect and efficiency. asked for. But there’s no tradition Could a law with all those things of that in this country. We had the be a challenge if expectations Franco regime, with forty years of are not met? Could it fail? obfuscation. When expectations are too high, they’re a problem because they That left its mark. won’t be met. Furthermore, the The public demand for more infor- demands involved in the concept mation was always thought of in of ‘good’ applied to something like terms of a demand to the media. ‘government’ simplifies the com- And it’s not only the media, but also plexity involved a great deal. I also the administration. It’s a logical con- always complain that in ethics we sequence of life in a democracy, al- ask for a kind of sainthood. How- though our democracy is so young ever, human ethics entails risk man- Interview with Begoña Román 51 52 Open Government

agement, and we must weigh up include much more humble and the likelihood of hazards, preventive modest concepts. And it requires measures, the danger of creating continuous efforts aimed at good social alarm or breaching some- governance, and making sure we one’s privacy because the person pay attention to the mistakes and involved should be the first one to contradictions that will arise. be informed. But things happen too quickly... However, this effort requires a change of culture and a change That’s what happens when the- in the way of working. oretical terms are translated to Yes. The Korean author Byung-Chul street level. Han outlines a theory in his book And when technologies evolve much more quickly than our ability to think and digest something. “We are becoming aware that as And quicker than the speed of the administration. citizens we have the Exactly, so these grandiose terms right to participate. (‘transparency’, ‘good governance’) are not just empty words. They’re And participation tools that help us to do things better, involves information” although there will also be risks and, therefore, errors. The Transparency Society accord- So, we have to accept that it is ing to which we call on transparency a process with many obstacles to solve everything, and then when along the way. you put lights and stenographers Yes, and think, for example, that everywhere, out of the dark, with- the way transparency is being im- out any administration of light and plemented in some administrations shade, what you end up with is a entails bureaucratisation and an in- society that is pornographic and formation overload. Now everything exhibitionist. One that is completely is in the public realm, it takes you insensitive to light and shade. a long time to find the information you’re looking for. In that respect, The political class aims to create some spiral of silence theories say a climate of trust through trans- there are some silences that are parency. An acceptance of errors due to lack of information, but oth- humanises the people who make ers that are the result of too much them, and can create empathy to- noise. wards that person. Nevertheless, it’s difficult to take that step... Too much noise is the same as I personally believe transparency silence. means fulfilling citizens’ rights to This subject is serious enough to information, and it is also aimed at Interview with Begoña Román 53

creating trust and credibility for insti- out efficiency has the same lack of tutions. But we’re only human and credibility as efficiency without legit- we make mistakes and contradict imacy. And here you have to strike ourselves. We will always do that, a balance. Transparency without but that doesn’t mean that we’re efficiency is distorted because citi- negligent, but instead that we’re fi- zens want access to information so nite, limited, we can’t do everything. that they can make decisions. In the That’s life! administration, when they prioritise the work that needs to be made We’re not robots. public immediately, they must use Exactly! With regards to manage- assess the efficiency and effective- ment transparency, it’s important ness of that the information to avoid to manage crises so that people overload. apologise publicly and say that it won’t happen again. Because you You have sometimes referred don’t learn from anything as much to the Internet as the “dirtynet.” as from your mistakes. Transparency can also be used to sully people’s reputations. In some countries, politicians There’s a real desire to discredit resign because a lie on their everyone and I don’t know why that CV has come to light, and here is. But what’s more, we look for the they don’t for even more serious less appealing sides of certain peo- things. So how can we expect any management of transparency from some politicians? “There is an One way is for political parties and information overload. institutions themselves to create mechanisms that provide guaran- Now that everything tees which pressurise or advise is in the public realm, people who have made a mistake to resign, to stand down. That’s one it takes you a long way forward. And another way is time to find the to have citizens who are aware that this can’t be tolerated and who mo- information you’re bilise against the politicians involved. looking for”

Isn’t ineffective transparency no transparency at all? ple. Obviously, everyone has their That’s a very interesting concept. less appealing side, but a lot of so- Transparency is a tool for credibil- cial education is required, as every- ity, but politics has to be based on one has their own dark side. And two main cornerstones of legitima- if we have to be transparent, we cy. One is the legitimising concept have to be transparent about both itself, and the other is the concept positive and negative issues. Let’s of effectiveness. Legitimacy with- not criticise someone based on their 54 Open Government

less appealing side, because we’re find out more. Does that mean all human. If there is a dark side, we that we are more powerful? tend to penalise that, when in reality, Undoubtedly. We know more and everyone makes mistakes. in general, “knowledge is power” because it means freedom from ig- With the right of access and re- norance and superstition. However, quests for information, to what knowledge also means frustration extent are abuses by the public because you are free from igno- also unethical? rance but, on the other hand, you Some of the wording of the Trans- can’t change things, huge barriers parency Law may lead to possible abuses. At the Spanish Transpar- ency Agency, there’s journalist who “When you put lights has them working flat out, it’s al- and stenographers most like they work for him. That’s excessive. Therefore, I would place everywhere, without a limit on the amount of informa- administration of light tion a person can ask for. Six people can’t be working so that one person and shade, what you can produce a report. end up with is a society that is pornographic Those limits could be difficult for the public to understand. and exhibitionist” We must understand that all human beings have limits. In healthcare, for may need to be dismantled in or- example, what we could provide der to change some things. Obama technically is not sustainable finan- could tell us about that, for example. cially. We need to understand that I think that’s the great frustration for we must engage in healthcare eco- politicians. nomics. We need to know which information is essential, vital and a pri- Citizens aren’t equal, but trans- ority. And when faced with a pile of parency is universal. So, can we requests for information, you have say that transparency makes us to be able to administer a waiting a little more equal? Or is access list, like they do in healthcare, and to information easier for some do so in a transparent way. People people, and we are once again need to understand that the admin- unequal? istration’s resources are limited. Exactly. If transparency isn’t made easy, we’ll have a problem of class- Francis Bacon said that “knowl- es again. Knowledge is power. In edge is power”… fact, in healthcare they’ve often In fact, the quote was from Hobbes, found that equal access is guaran- and Bacon popularised it. teed, but equal use isn’t, because it’s a question of having greater The point is that now we can knowledge. Interview with Begoña Román 55

PROFILE Begoña Román (born Petrer, Alicante, 1965) is a doctor of philosophy and a lecturer at the Faculty of Philosophy at the University of Barcelona. She directed the Chair of Ethics at Ramón Llull University. Her books include Ética en los servicios sociales (Ethics in the social services), published by Herder in 2016, and ¿Quo vadis, Universidad? (Quo vadis, University?) published by the UOC in 2016 and co-au- thored with Francisco Esteban. She edited Por una ética docente (A case for teaching ethics) in 2003, Por una ética ecológica (A case for ecological ethics) in 2005 and Hacia una sociedad responsable: reflexiones desde las éticas aplicadas (Towards a responsible society: reflections from applied ethics) in 2006, all three published by Prohom Edicions.

As far as lobbies are concerned, is involved in public tenders all the the Transparency Law treats a time– is not the same thing as a co- small organisation in the same operative of three people that wants way as it does a multinational to take part in a public tender. The company. Is this same treatment system is unfair, because you can’t inherently unfair? put David and Goliath on the same Yes, at least according to Aristot- level. le, because he made a distinction between equality and fairness. Citi- Finally, do data have ethics? zens’ equality of opportunities must There’s a vested interest behind all be guaranteed, but then you have data. What makes a piece of data interesting? All data is partial and there’s nothing wrong with that. “All data is partial What is wrong is hiding the inter- and there’s noth- ests behind some data. Data can’t speak for themselves, someone ing wrong with that. makes them talk by going to look What is wrong is for them so that the data say what they want them to say. Data in itself hiding the interests exists because someone has cre- behind some data” ated it and put it in the right place. Therefore, all data hides an ideology, and I want that ideology to be made to respect differences. Which dif- explicit. ference is morally relevant? That’s the question. If you want to guarantee equal opportunities, for example, a large multinational –which 56 Open Government

Interview with Simona Levi, activist “Transparency and participation are civic victories”

A stalwart but pragmatic fighter, a radical who engages in dialogue, Simona Levi is a leading figure in civic activism. The various initiatives she is involved in aim to provide citizens with oversight tools they can use for government bodies.

As a digital rights activist, what the Law, a small group like a ram- do you think of the Catalan blers’ club has almost the same Transparency Law more than obligations as a multinational com- three years after its entry into pany like Telefónica. Another of my force? criticisms is the Register of Interest Having a transparency law is obvi- Groups, which in theory seems very ously much better than not having positive, but poses a contradiction. one. The Catalan Law is very ad- vanced, although perhaps its main What’s that? flaw is that it’s gone too far the other A professional lobbyist will include way. their company’s details in the Reg- ister, so it doesn’t personally affect In what respect? them at all, while a social activist, In areas that I think are excessive. such as a neighbourhood activist, Issues of transparency and partic- for example, must provide their ipation should be considered as personal details and expose them- tools to remedy the asymmetry be- selves in that way. A few months tween institutions and civil society, ago, a Slovakian journalist was which needs to keep a close eye on murdered because of the country’s its institutions. On the other hand, transparency law. He had made a if we apply an idea of transparen- request for information using his cy that is equal for everyone, that’s own details, which ended up being going too far because, according to passed around. That’s why the Cat- Interview with Simona Levi 57 58 Open Government

alan Transparency Law, which is a or not. The very existence of such very good law, should be changed channels is a deterrent for institu- in that respect when it can be tional abuse. amended. Does Catalonia’s deep-rooted Is promoting open government libertarian tradition also ac- in a traditionally opaque country count for this mistrust towards a struggle between the desire the state and the administra- to be transparent and historical tion? inertia? Indeed, one of the reasons why I’ve Yes, and a certain degree of meth- settled in Catalonia is the citizens’ odology is also lacking. In order ability to organise themselves and to be effective, the administration the way they do it. A lot of progress must be updated with the mental is being made in this area. That structure of free software. Democ- was apparent in the events of 1-O racy could be changed completely in 2017. just by rethinking the internal communications architecture. Politicians In the empowerment of the peo- and institutions have bilateral and ple. closed discussions, which com- People here play this role of proac- pletely lack transparency and are tive oversight of governance. And ineffective. They should use open another thing that sets you apart standards and learn that sharing is part of being effective. However, there is still a long way to go. “We need to rethink communication, From an activist’s point of view, is mistrust of the administration use open standards, a prerequisite? and learn that The institutions must be reliable, although a cornerstone of democ- sharing is a question racy is oversight. In other words, of efficiency” mistrust of institutions. Institutions asking us to trust them is something that’s medieval. We need to open from other places where I have been up neutral channels where we can an activist is that here people fight check whether people are doing while also letting other people fight. their job correctly. Government bod- There isn’t the obsession you find ies that waste a lot of time engaging in other places of all of us having to in “education” about nothing should get together. What we do have to first create those channels so that do is live together and cooperate we can monitor them, down to the and I think that’s very healthy. In that last cent, the last protocol, the last respect, there’s a positive climate measure taken. And then civil soci- that favours my mental structure, ety will see whether they are of use which is independent. I like work- Interview with Simona Levi 59

ing with people without needing to At the Spanish level, the transpar- hook up with them for a lifetime. ency law is proving itself very useful. However, as an activist I work You’ve written that you don’t much better in Catalonia and in want to turn transparency “into Europe, since work meetings are a moralistic value that serves as real, and there’s a more modern window dressing for some.” dynamic despite their shortcom- Transparency and participation are ings. Everything is complicated in the two things that we have im- Madrid. The idea of political parties talking to organised civil society has become normalised in Catalonia “The institutions’ and in Europe, but not in Madrid. obligation is to Talking to the deputies of the four main political parties is very difficult, create channels of and each party has its own specific participation, which ways of dealing with civil society: the PP doesn’t talk to civil socie- civil society may or ty, the PSOE is condescending may not use” and then doesn’t change anything, Ciudadanos always say yes, but then guess what? They always do posed from civil society, and which the opposite. And finally Podemos the system is forced to respect. It’s goes round and round in circles until a citizens’ victory. Ten years ago... it drives you crazy. It’s impossible to work that way. … that was unthinkable. Unthinkable. However, not all insti- You’ve sometimes said about tutions have fully assimilated it. In the administrations that “they most cases, I think it’s more of a can’t guarantee implementa- simulation than a real desire. How- tion, because that would make ever, the Government of Catalonia them both judge and one of the is particularly sensitive to this issue. parties involved.” And you’ve ar- It’s a pleasure to work with people gued that the community, that working on issues of transparency citizens, have to monitor admin- in the previous legislature and in istrations. How? this one. They take what I suggest What we need is to force institutions into consideration and I have the to provide us with easily accessible impression that we’re achieving channels, because at the moment, something. In that respect, they’re citizens have to deal with too much quite exceptional. information, or it comes in a format that can be read but not reused, etc. On the other hand, you’ve been very critical with what’s happen- Tools like Digiwhist, which was ing at the Spanish level and of introduced in January 2018 and the Spanish transparency law. was partly created by Xnet, pro- 60 Open Government

PROFILE Simona Levi (born Turin, 1966) is a playwright, cultural manager, multi- disciplinary artist and activist in social movements. She is the founder of Xnet, a platform of activists working on digital rights, networked democracy and the freedom of expression to fight against corruption, and 15MpaRato, which inspired the investigation into the secret corporate credit cards used by senior Bankia officials. She is the director of the Master’s Degree Course in Civil Rights, Technopolitics and Digital Culture at the UPF-Barcelona School of Management.

vide access to public procure- the case of Barcelona City Council’s ment information since 2009 for Office for Transparency and Good all the EU member states, and Practices, I went there to make the seven other jurisdictions. What public ethical mailbox happen, so is your initial assessment one that citizens can report anything they year on? want anonymously. And I achieved It still isn’t working very well be- that. It has become the first mailbox cause the contents need to be of its type in an institution. So, it’s corrected and adapted. There are a lot of data missing which in theory should be public. We’re still in the “The Government Palaeolithic era of public data. Now, of Catalonia is let’s imagine the situation in 200 years’ time, when everything will particularly be published automatically, when sensitive to the issue everything can be reused, when you’ll be able to find out anything of transparency, in all kinds of detail. The institutions and I have the im- must be responsible for doing that, and public oversight must demand pression that we’re information and use it. achieving something”

In late 2015, you were an advis- er to the Office for Transparency a pioneering initiative, the first of its and Good Practices of Barcelona kind in the world. And on the same City Council. How was that ex- day I delivered the ethical mailbox, I perience? left the advisory board. From the outset I said that I wasn’t interested in the dynamics of adviso- And are there any other insti- ry boards because institutions often tutions interested in the ethical use them for window dressing. We mailbox? prefer to work on specific projects. In Yes, it has already been installed in Interview with Simona Levi 61

the Anti-Fraud Offices of Catalonia themselves have to do it, it will be and Valencia, and institutions in Ma- very hard to make them do it. I think drid, Valencia, Mallorca, and Galicia, that the current structures of polit- and the Government of Catalonia ical parties don’t make any sense. have also shown an interest. You So, it’s a good thing that we have can replicate it as many times as the Transparency Law because it you want, because we make rep- acts as a deterrent, although we licable, low-cost tools. We don’t still have a long way to go to end charge for it, we just provide them clientelism and the structures that with it and we give them advice on cause corruption. installing it. Are we just at the beginning of It has often been said that trans- the paradigm of transparency, parency laws are a tool for fight- good governance and open ing corruption. data? The Transparency Law is necessary Yes. Here we are moving quite fast, but, of course, it isn’t a panacea. but everything is moving more slow- The diagnosis is very clear: corrup- ly in other places and institutions. The truth is that in general, the mentality around transparency has “It’s almost changed quite a bit. That’s one of impossible the citizens’ achievements. Even so, the fact that we’re achieving things for political doesn’t mean that we should stop parties in their making sure they do what they’re supposed to, or that we should present form, stop asking for other things. as networks of patronage, not to be corrupt” tion originates, is perpetrated by and organised by political parties, and the structure of the parties is what enables corruption. In fact, it’s almost impossible for political parties in their present form, as networks of patronage, not to be corrupt. If we want to end corruption, we need to reform the structures of the political parties, and even the Parties Law and their role. The problem is that because the parties OPEN GOVERNMENT

Proactive Disclosure in the Transparency, 1 Access to Information and Good Governance GOVERN Act: Possibilities and Shortcomings. Manuel Villoria.

Obertura i reutilització de dades públiques. 2 Martín Álvarez Espinar.

La justícia penal davant la corrupció. OBERT 3 Antonio del Moral García. Contractació oberta 4 2019 Agustí Cerrillo i Martínez. 2019 T 5

GOVERN OBE R Nine voices reﬂect on open government Jordi Rovira (coord.)

ISBN 978-84-393-9822-6

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