Minnesota Youth Gang Research Project Minnesota Historical Society

Jessy 1 21

Tape~ it I ~~ Interview with JESSY 20 year old Mexican American Willmar 9-0 Mafia Crip & Westside ICrips

Interviewed by Kate Cavett Hand in Hand Jessy's Home Project Friday November 21, 1997 [Jessy's brother attended some of the interview] 57.10 KC: You and I just reviewed the release with you, is that correct? J: Yes KC: The first thing I need for you to do is give me a name I canSociety use. But before I do that I need to tell you that if I ask you a questions Researchand you don't want to answer it, just tell me. Just say I don't want to answer that. Don't give me some bullshit. OK what name do you want me to use? 58.27 J: Umm, Jessy Gang KC: Jessy, cool. Ok, Jessy, and, if I happen to use your, you know, the wrong name, when we transcribe they come out right. HowHistorical old are you? J: 20 years old. KC: Where were you born.Youth Just kind of give me a little bit about where you were born and what your life was like before you ever heard about gangs. J: I was born in Benson an it was pretty base I guess, ya know, livin in a small town with my family. My mom and my brother and my two sisters, it was awright, I guess. KC: When did you move to Willmar? J: Ah, probablyMinnesota when I was about two. KC: So, you basically lived in Willmar all your life. WhenMinnesota did you first hear about gangs? J: Ahh, probably like when I moved to Utah and I came back, I came back to live with my Mom and I knew about it. KC: What did you learn about gangs in Utah. J: I just see other people, like in ah, where we lived and stuff, you see other people like gang bang and stuff They talk about it and everything, that was about it, I didn't really get involved with it.

59.43 KC: What did you think about what you saw? 1: I thought it was alright. It looked alright, like an alright life. It didn't look like, I don't know it was jus like looked kinda like jus a bunch of friends, ya know, I didn't really think about, I didn't really think about like the bad, like the real bad stuff, I didn't get really into it, I jus seen it. It was jus like a group of friends, that was it. KC: So, you saw something. How old were you when you came back to Willmar? 100.13 J: About 13. 12 or 13. KC: So, when did you first start getting attracted and getting involved withProject gangs? 1: Ahh, when I came back here I met some Cuban,.some Cuban guys from like, I think they were from Milwaukee or Chicago. And, that's when I got involved with it. I started hangin out with them more often an then it was like they were bringin all this stuff up to me an they were askin me ta be down with them an everything an I was like ''yeah, I guess", ya know, that was it. KC: So what gang were you first involved with? Society 1: They were Crips from Milwaukee and ChicagoResearch and that's what I, they jumped us in, but like, I don't, .that was the first time I had got any affiliation with it all, was when I was out there with them. KC: Out there, 1: In Tricourt. It's a trailer park hereGang in Wil, here. KC: So you were living in the trailer park. 1: No, I wasn't livin. I was living downtownHistorical in the downtown area, but I would go down to I would like ride my bike down to Tricourt an hang out with them. the older people, older kids. Youth KC: How old were these Cuban guys? 1: Ahh they were probably like 20. No, not that, about 17, 18 around there. 101.27 KC: Tell me about your initiation, what was it like when. First of all, what all did you have to do before they invitedMinnesota you to be initiated. I mean how did you have to prove yourself? 1: There was jus like, ta jus do the line with em, it was like, there was quite a few of em, but itMinnesota wasn't that big then, either. There was jus, they had jus came back cuz they lived here to before an I knew em when I was younger an they had jus moved back from Chicago an Milwaukee an everything. An, they jus told me ta walk a line, an at first I kinda knew what they were talkin about, but I didn't expect it, like right away, an then right when I, .the first step I took it was like they started swingin an that was it. KC: Describe and, sometimes what I really want you to do, is like, tell me the story, you know, kinda like describe in as much detail, like initiation and things like that when you can give

me as much detail and really paint the picture and tell the story. That helps me a lot with doing education and those are the cuts of kinds of things that we can use for education. J: Alright, well, I was, we were all standin around an they all lined up on each side of me an they told me to walk through, so, so I started walkin through an then, they were hittin me and kickin me an stuff. An aah, I was gettin towards the end of the line an one of the older, he was a older guy, he was probably like 23 or so, he had a brick but he missed cuz I seen it comin, cuz he was like right at the end an I seen him take a wide swing an I knew he had somethin, so I ducked down an he missed me, but, cuz he wanted to hit me with a brick in the chest. And, I kinda umm that was then they were all like happy an stuff. We started drinkin an some other guys came, it was like my adopted brother, he was there an he was claimin another set an then they like jumped him out an everything.Project an they wanted to jump, an he wanted to get jumped in an everything, but they never did. They just beat him up an that was it, an then he, he was like, wanted to be part. An it was like no, so he never got. He just got beat up an that was it. KC: Ummm. Doesn't seem fair. What set was it that you were jumped into? J: It was 9-0 Mafia Crips. Society KC: 9-0 Mafia Crips. So you're in 9-0 Mafia CripsResearch and you're 13 years old. J: Yep. KC: What happens next in the life of this gangster? J: I jus, I started partyin a lot. I didn't really get into that much trouble, little, like got caught for cars, .like stealin from carsGang and stuff like that an assaults. I have quite a few assaults. I quit goin to school, stuff like that, to go hang out. I'd go to school once in a while, but I'd like, I had problems, I hadHistorical problems with my Mom an then ahhh. There was jus a lot of drinking, a lot of drinking charges an stuff. That's how it started, an then ahhh, we moved fromYouth here, me and my mother an my, I don't know, for a year I think my brother was back, he came back too. So then we left here an went to Glencoe, an then. That's kinda like, .there wasn't really a lot of gang activity down there, ya know, but that's when I got started gettin into more serious trouble down there. I got into some armed robberies an stuff, when I moved down there. I was about 15. 104.52 Minnesota KC: So then were you locked up? J: Yeah,Minnesota I went. They sent me to a treatment place, to deal with like anger issues an stuff cuz my mom was in, well my mom was in Idaho an they wanted to put me in the. They wanted ta certify me, so I waited for a few month while I was in Brainerd. Brainerd ahthe lockup. I was in there an they.! waited in there for my certification, they came an they didn't want to certify me. Cuz, my P.O., I had my P.O. from down here an she kinda stepped up for me and told them that I, ya know, she didn't think that I needed to be certified. An, they were pushin the certification cuz it was such a small town, I think,

ya know. An it was like, it was strong armed robbery that was we did a lot of times, we did it a lot of times ta one person. And, then aah. I went up North to Mille Lac's's Academy an then they. They put me in these groups an stuff ,an I was there for almost a year, probably. An, umm, then I got released from there. I made it through the program, they said I made it through the program really fast, I was like on of the fastest people to make it through the program. An, that was jus that was when I that's when I started gettin like goin back, kept goin back an back an back, after that I kept repeating the whole thing goin to like Prairie Lakes an other correction facilities. KC: Was this just crime related or was this gang and crime related? 1: Umm, when I came back it was more when I came back here whenProject I got outta there we talked about some of the gang stuff a little bit, but they didn't really focus on that cuz it was such a small town, an I don't think they really an, I didn't bring it up to nobody. But, I guess you could say it was it was kinda it was gang related because there was, this kid that I was with he was always like talkin about that too, like gang stuff, an we'd discuss it an then we jus went out an did the robberies. An, his brother was gang affiliated with a gang too. Society 106.50 Research KC: So, what I think I'm hearing you saying is, you spent a lot of time in and out of correctional facilities, but basically when you're in there they've never talked to you about it or talked to you about why it's not good or anything like that. 1: No that .if you talk about anythingGang like that, they'd discipline you, like you go to the wet cell. Or, they'll get you have to get sentences, an then if you don't do those you go to the wet cell anyway. Historical KC: What's the wet cell?: 1: Well it's like a little cellYouth they put you in. There's like a little bed an a toilet an it's only cells with it's a single cell with running water. They're the only cells in the facility that have running water, so they call em wet cells. That's where they lock you up at, for KC: I worked at a correctional facility, I was a CD counselor in a correctional facility for adolescents, were there ever any, what I would call therapy groups, or any groups where with a counselor youMinnesota could talk about what life was like in the gang, what your experiences were, what was good for you, what was bad, where you could kind of process itMinnesota and step back and look at it and say "do I want to go back to this"? 1: No they didn't they didn't focus on stuff like that they focused on like being being a criminal. I mean that's what all they had little groups, but they were only like 15 minutes an that's just for people ta, brown nose an stuff like that, tell on people an get their points an get their levels so they can get out, that was it. And, that was that seemed like the most important thing to them was jus to get kids to jus, I don't know, go in there an get out. It didn't really matter if they dealt with em or not, they jus kinda were there an

they were there, people were there jus to get paid, that's it. 108.26 KC: If you were an adult, and you wanted to help kids that were locked up, what do you think should be done? J: Well, I think that people should be more looking at more the issues behind the crimes. Like for some people, sometimes it's a lot of anger, ya know, it's not always jus cuz they're a bad kid or a they're bad person, it's got stuff to do with that they haven't dealt with anger, that people that they're angry at or jus anger that they haven't dealt with. An, it's jus, ya know, it's kinda eaten em up. They gotta deal with it some wayan some people don't know how ta haven't had like a male role model an theyProject don't know how to express themselves without ya know, that's the first way they know how to express themselves so they gonna keep doin it until someone teaches em different. An, then even after they get time they'll still hire, ya know, but if people are willin to work with kids ta, ya know, keep, ya know, givin em encouragement ta do that, I think that would change a lot of the, cuz they don't need so many correctional facilities, ya know, I think they need more treatment stuff, more stuff to deal with kids, ya know,Society on a one on one basis. Ya know, like a group where they can be open aboutResearch stuff That's how it was in Mille Lac's, an that, that helped for awhile when I got out, ya know. It was good, I did good for awhile, but then it was so there was no support here, ya know like the support down there. So, it was so easy to back to the drinking an everything, gettin into trouble an everything like that. An, that's whatGang I did, I went right back to it within, probably a couple months, an that was good for me a couple months because that's the longest I been out a trouble for awhile. So, a coupleHistorical months is good, but then, right away it was back to Prairie Lakes. Right after like two months after I got out. KC: Do you think if you wouldYouth have had ongoing support to practice the things that you had learned in treatment that you would have been able to stay clean longer? 110.18 J: I think so, yeah. Because, that's like a lot of it was like gettin frustrated with not bein able to talk with people, cuz my mom was like she wasn't really there a lot. She was at like work or she was out,Minnesota an so that's an then my friends would always be over, that didn't help very much. There was really no one to talk to so I jus kinda go back to the same stuff,Minnesota again, an that's why I felt comfortable with my friends, again, ya know, an that's what I knew before, an then where I was at it was like a kinda like a family structure, you help each other an you, ya know, stuff like that, ya know, it's a structured place, ya know what you gotta do an on the outs you don't really know what cha gotta do, ya know. They jus send you out, an they don't send you out with nuttin, ya know, nuttin .they jus what you learned, that's not good enough. Ya know, ya gotta have people to help you, ya know, teach or express what you learned, do stuff like that.

KC: Do you think ifin any of the correctional facilities that you were at that, it would have helped to have been able to talk about the values of the gang, and do some processing. Not the glamorizing, not the war stories, but, you know, am I gonna go back to the gang, what'll I get, what won't I get, umm, is this the life that I want? 111.38 J: They had that, like that in like Sauk Center kinda, but they didn't really enforce anything, it's like if you talked about it and you glamorized it was not big deal as long as you talked, ya know, and they say, oh how you feel, ya know, ya say high self or low self That's not really a great way to express yourself I mean what they didn't want no one wanted to get in depth with it. Ya know, and the counselors they didn't care just to get in depth with it, so we'd have like it was supposed to be an hourProject and a half group, we'd do it in a half hour, then we'd go back playing basketball or war story in or doin whatever, ya know, doin whatever we feel comfortable doin. Cuz, nobody really liked to be in the group an if anybody did get into depth, they get a lot, ya know, they get a lot a shit about it afterwards and then an the counselors, they didn't really do nuttin ya know, they didn't discipline nobody about it or nothing, they didn'tSociety encourage people to be open about anything. It's just the same, same as PrairieResearch Lakes. KC: How many correctional facilities have you been in? J: Umm, about 4 or 5. KC: What's the total amount oftime that you've been in corrections? J: Umm, probably like I've been out I'veGang been in a lot, an there like usually long times four months an three months and six months, eight months, stuff like that, probably about three years total or four years. Historical KC: Have you been in any corrections since you've been an adult? J: Yeah, I just got outtaYouth jail last year, I'm goin back this year. KC: You've already been sentenced, or are you planning on it? J: No, there, there I got, I got some more charges this year. Probation violations an stuff. KC: Anything besides probation violations? J: Yeah, I got some assaults an I got an assault an some criminal damage .like this recent stuff that I've beenMinnesota in it's been more gang related. It's been like the heavy stuff like I got I got a lot of minors too, minor consumptions for drinking with like the criminal 2 criminalMinnesota damages and an assault an I got a aggravated DWI, an I had some theft an another minor this Friday, this an that. That's why I said I gotta probably I'm gonna go back this year again. 113.55 KC: Sounds like you're getting into lots of trouble. Are you on the fast track or the slow track to go to Cloud? J: Ummm I think, I think that's what they're talkin about now, I think they're gonna want

me to go up there an maybe do the rest of my sentence from last year an then run it concurrent with the sentence this year. KC: How much is your sentence? 1: Umm it was 26 months an I did 8 last year an then I got out around the end of the year last year. KC: Where did you do the 8? 1: I did 8 months in the County Jail, so right away. I did 8 months in the county jail here an then like other counties they strip you out to other counties. So I was like all around this area. KC: So, how much time do you want to spend in Cloud? Project 1: I don't really wanna spend any. KC: So, how come you're working so hard to get yourself into Cloud? 1: I don't know it's jus I don't think about stuffya know, it's like I jus I don't know, I don't think about what I do really I don't like it doesn't bother me it jus happens. It happens sometimes things jus happen real fast, ya know. It's like, with the with the assaults an stuff the assault and the criminal damage an stuff,Society that jus, that was jus happened like I wasn't even thinkin. I got outtaResearch the car an an then I threw a forty an it hit at someone's window. Some kids were throwin gang signs at us an I didn't think they were gonna call the cops, cuz I've never called the cops on nobody, ya know ifI've been if people bother me I don't call the cops. Ijus don't think about stuff like that. Like other people, how they're gonna react toGang it, Ijus think about the way I react to it an then maybe that's how everybody else should react to it, ya know, cuz everybody's tryin to act like they're hard or somethin ya know, an thenHistorical I expect, well I'm not callin the cops ya know, why are people gonna call the cops on me, ya know. But, I guess they look at it different. Youth 116.10 KC: Okay. You were 13, you were initiated are you still with the same set? 1: Yeah, but they're not, like they're not around no more. They come down an see me an I see them. Umm, the that, that guy that really like had, like had brought me into it an everything, an tookMinnesota care of me , like when I was down here by myself an stuff the one I hung around with the most, is he's he lives in another town I don't see him very often, I seeMinnesota him once in a while ifhe comes to town. We'll talk an stuff, but I'm not active, like like I was or anything. I do now, with this Westside thing, I do, I hang out with em a lot and I know all of em. An, so I don't know that's about the most affiliation I got right now is with them. KC: So, when you were initially initiated, 7 years ago, how many were in the 90's Crips? 1: There was about 20 of us, it was a it was a smaller clique KC: Let's do some demographic stuff. How many are in Westside?

1: Huh, there's a lot, I don't know, probably everybody I know, there's a lot of people. KC: 100? 200? 1: A little over 100. KC: Is Westside an affiliation of several different Crip groups? 1: No it's a lot ofthe kids a lot of the guys that are in it now, they were never really into the gang stuff until jus recently too they got into it. An, they don't like, they don't throw, they don't throw like a lot of gang signs an stuff, they do once in a while, but they're not really like that they're not hard into it or anything like that. They haven't been into it for a long time. So. KC: Okay. What other gangs are there in Willmar right now? Fall 1997Project - what's the gang scene look like? 1: There's a lot of Vice Lords, an ah, some Latin Kings. KC: About how many Vice Lords? 1: Ummm, probably like 15, that I've that I've had run in that I've met, that I've seen. KC: How many Latin Kings? 1: Ahhh, probably about the same, probably about 100, maybeSociety less. I don't know, I don't really talk to em, I don't see em that much. Research KC: Yeah, ya know, it's just kinda your estimate. You're an expert, so, I'm asking for your estimate, and experts don't always know exactly -- they just take their best guess. Any GD's? 1: Yeah, there's some, there's .theyGang like live out in the other side of town though, I don't really talk to em that much see em once in a while. KC: About how many GD's would you say?Historical 1: Probably about 40. 30 or 40. KC: Any Bloods? Youth 1: No not that I know. KC: What other gangs are there in Willmar? 1: Ahh, there's D Nots an it's like there from Texas, most of em. An there's some .there, oh yeah there's some TCB's, some Tri City I don't know -- some people say it's Tri City an someMinnesota people say it's Texas City Bombers. I umm there folks up, but I don't know. It's kinda their I don't know I don't really understand their their jus a lotMinnesota different. 119.29 KC: So, about how many D Nots? 1: D Nots, well there's quite a few about 60 or 70 D Nots. KC: And, how many Texas City Bomber's would you say? 1: Like 10 10 or 15 of em. KC: What about Thirteens? Something Thirteens?

1: I I don't know. KC: And then there's another gang? 1: Ummmm, I don't know. KC: Any others that you can think of? 1: Ummm, no, not really. KC: What is the ethnic or cultural background of most of the gangs? 1: Umm Latino, a lot, there's some ummm some Blacks. Those are like mostly the GD's an the Vice Lords, an ahh, there's a good majority ofthe White kids now, too. The Caucasian kids are, they gettin into, I don't know if, I don't know what .they get into, too. I mean they've we've seen, I've seen a lot of em together, like with us an stuff They come with us an stuff like that. Project 120.59 KC: So, the Black kids, what gangs area they going into? 1: They're goin in . usually like Vice Lords an like ahh GD's, most of the stufffrom like Chicago. Because, there's some guys around here from Chicago, now, that's pretty much what they are. Society KC: The Caucasian kids are going with Westside whoResearch else? 1: They're goin with, well there's Caucasian's on both Latin Kings too, an there I don't know, there's a lot of em with those Latin Kings, too. But, there's a lot with us, too. He's lives in Austin now, an he was he's pretty (????). He's been to lock up bef a lot of times, an he's only 16, ya know, anGang he's probably down more than most of the people that are my age, that I know. And, all cuz like with the Caucasian's an stuff, he's pretty, I mean he's into it, he knows he's been Historicalinto it for a while, too. KC: This is a Caucasian kid who's 20 years old. 1: 16. Youth KC: Who's 16 years old, who's seriously into which Gang? 1: He's done with G's to Imperials. Imperial GD's an it's like the only White set from GD, really is Imperials. KC: So, is he in lockup in Austin? 1: No. He lives downMinnesota there. He moved outta town cuz things were gettin really, really bad around his house an stuff, too. KC: Do you know how to get ahold of him? 122.30 Minnesota 1: Yeah. I think I got his number around here somewhere. KC: I drive to Austin. Okay. You said that there were a lot more kids coming in to Westside now, this Fall, this year, is there a recruitment effort taking place or why are more kids being attracted? 1: I think it's jus about jus ta jus ta be down with people, jus to be down with certain

people, cuz we don't look at it like I don't look at it I don't look down on anybody that's got my back, ya know, I don't think of em as, as jus cuz they're smaller or nuttin like that I don't I jus if if someone's got my back, I got their back. That's how I look at it, cuz I don't really gotta I don't gotta Crip set down here, ya know, so I can't I still I'll claim it an if I'm gonna get in a fight, I'll claim it, I don't care, but ya know it's like I think that's what it's about, is people need people need other people ya know, cuz otherwise things .there's a lot of those Kings, ya know, an they can't they won't fight one on one, so it's like they gotta, they gotta turn somewhere. An, the police ain't do it they don't do nuttin about it, so .they .ya know, that's why they come with us, an they hang out with us. Project KC: Is Westside a Crips organization? 1: They're down for Crips, yeah all of em are that I've talked to. KC: What are their colors? 1: They wear blue, too, like that. Blue and silver, usually. KC: Do they, what do they represent? Right or Left? 1: They don't, like it's not like that. They,oh well if they did,Society they'd like oh I know one, this Mexican dude, he goes ta .he does hisResearch stuff to the left all the time, ya know, cuz the Kings they put their's to the right. So they jus put a tops KC: Which is different than other Crips, cuz other Crips represent to the right. 1: Yep, yeah so, cuz he told me the other day, cuz I was at his house, he's like '

1: Naw, there's not. We jus look at it, jus like I said, it's jus like, ya know, like a backup, like someone get your back, ya know. We don't, I don't know we ain't really into tellin each other what ta do, cuz everybody got their own life, ya know, so we let it be like that, but if we need somethin an they they're there .they're gonna be therr, they have ta be there. Ya know, like if we gonna, if someone gets in a fight then we expect everybody to be there, but if they ain't then we jus, ya know, we don't really associate ourselves with em, umm. KC: Is there rank? 1: No, not really. KC: How many people are running Westside right now? Project 1: I don't know probably like jus a few. There's only a few people that really say well like it depends on like what's goin on, ya know, like we tell if if there's problems an stuff, if stuff starts to get like close to home an stuff then, ya know, then we put, we tell people, ya know, what's up - to chill out or whatever. If they're bringin it around ta like houses an stuff, other people's houses, bring your problems an stuff, like that. But, we don't like look at one person an ask em what we're supposedSociety ta do. Cuz, everybody .we pretty much jus take care of whatever we gottaResearch take care of ourselves, ya know. An, if it gets ta be like 10 on 1 or somethin, then we're gonna go deep too, ya know. If someone comes deep at us, we'll go deep back, but other than that, it's jus like jus bein with each other an just hangin out, drinkin an stuff KC: OK When you say "we take care Gangof it ourselves", that sounds like there are smaller clicks, that there are smaller organizations. 127.44 Historical 1: Yeah there's like, I gotta few friends that I'm that I go out with a lot, like three or four guys that I hang out withYouth a lot. And, then there's like other people that I don't talk to that much over there, but ifl need somethin they'll they'll back me up they stick up for me when I'm not around if someone talkin bad about me, there gonna say somethin about, ya know, ta back me up, so that they're not talkin down on me. But, that I don't see em every day, sometimes I don't see em for months, ya know. That's jus how it is with so many people, yajusMinnesota don't see em all the time, unless we're all like .unless like on a summertime .we're usually together at one place, ya know, stuff like that. KC: DoMinnesota the Crips have meetings on a regular basis? 1: No. KC: Do Westside have meetings on a regular basis? 1: Nope. KC: And, of course, the GD's or the Kings do. 1: Yeah yeah, they do. KC: Do you know the names of the rank in the Kings?

1: Naw, nope. They jus I don't know they jus it's weird cuz they, they, when I was in jail last year, they this one guy was in there an he was tryin to tell me to go be down with him an I told him, ya know, that I was I told him I was Crip, an I'm gonna stay Crip, ya know. I don't care ifthere's any here or not. Cuz he was tellin me ''well, there's none here". An I was like then I'd when I got outtajail I'd see em an I was with one of my friends an his little brother's a King an he's like, ''well, I gotta go to this meeting or I'm gonna get beat up" an I was jus I don't know, I don't know, like that sounded kinda weird, ya know, cuz that's like yeah I don't know, that's like someone gonna run your life, ya know, this is crazy. I don't I don't wanna I wouldn't wanna do that to someone else an tell em he better be here or else, ya know, cuz the people I Projecthang out with they're so ind, like the kids are like independent, I mean they don't they don't look if they get beat up, they're gonna get beat, up ya know, an if we back em up, that's fine, an ifwe don't then they're jus gonna take the ass., from em I guess. Ya know, they don't need us to be beatin em up, we're all friends and stuff 129.40 KC: Then they're just gonna take what? Society 1: Well jus take the, of they got beat up jus takeResearch the beating, ya know, if no one was to back em up. But, I wouldn't say "hey, you better come to my house otherwise by 5, otherwise, ya know, I'm gonna kick your ass or whatever. I wouldn't do nuttin like that. KC: Sounds like a lot more independence. 1: Yeah. Gang KC: But, lets say you get beat up, then can you call other Westsiders to retaliate and go beat up whoever beat you up? Historical 1: If that ever happened, yeah I could. They've I've don it for friends, too. I've gottin ta like a lot of the gang stuffYouth well with the Kings an stuff, they didn't really want no problems wit me, because they know me an stuff an they don't they told me they tell me still that they don't want no problems with me. But, one of my friends got hit with a tire iron, so then I .that made me mad, so then I, we went after them we retaliated on them, ya know, the same. KC: Why don't the KingsMinnesota want to mess with you? 1: Ahh they just say, ya know, it's like, they jus told me, like well we know your brother fromMinnesota the pen--- an, ya know, nobody's got no problems with you cuz most of the guys that most of those Kings is like, they're my size, they're older then me, but they're my size an I'll give em a ass whoppin an they know it. Ya know, that's .they won't step to me one on one, but they'll come deep, like 5, 6 in a car, an then they'll talk shit to me. An, I don't I tell em, ''well, if you're gonna get out the car, get out the car" ya know if not, get the fuck away, ya know, get away from me, ya know, because I ain't gonna .jus, I ain't someone jus to stare at ya know. If they want a problem with me, they should do

somethin. An, I've seen a lot of those older guys, like I see em by myself an they don't say nuttin, or they'll walk away from me when I start sayin stuff to em .they'll walk away. An, that makes me more made, cuz it's like, I'm not into guns and knives an stuff like that, I'm into like I know how to fight so I'd rather fight, ya know, an ifI go to jail for that, ya know, it's a lot better than goin to jail for stabbin someone or shootin someone, ya know. An, that's what I tell em, ya know, I'm not into guns an they know that, ya know. They've pulled guns on me an stuff an Ijus don't get into that stuff. 131.47 KC: Is there a lot more guns here in Willmar than there has been? J: Yeah there's a lotta there's a lot more people this. I don't know,Project kids jus carry em around, it's like no big deal an, so yeah know, it's like back in the days carry a knife an you were bad, now, it's like carry a gun an you're bad, ya know. An, that's how kids are, they carry guns around they flash em wherever they feel like it, ya know. An I don't know if people are, people just don't call the cops on em or nuttin, stuff KC: How come? J: I don't know cuz like the drive by's and stuff that were goinSociety on in the summer it was like .there was like a month or somethin like Researchthat .there was jus shootin all the time. People were shootin at other peoples houses an stuff An, that's why, I think it scared people in the community an they jus thought, ya know, I don't wanna get shot at they don't know how they don't really how into kids are, ya know, ya can't really say this kids a punk or this kids a wannabe,Gang cuz ya know, it doesn't it doesn't take a whole lot of brains to shoot someone, ya know, so ya know, what can ya ya can't ya can't trust people, ya know. You never know, theyHistorical might jus be stupid or they might really be down, ya know, ya never know. KC: All the shooting that wentYouth on this summer, what level of involvement was it? Were they just affiliates that were trying to prove something or were they long term committed hard core gangsters? 133.15 J: I think it was jus tryin to make a point that, ya know cu this place this place got shot at too, ya know an Minnesotait was jus right down the hall a apartment got shot at. An, so I don't know I a lot of people were thinkin that it was cuz a me, around here, but I don't think so.Minnesota I mean the .ya know ifsomeone's shot, they shot ya know. That's ya know, if they I told em an I went to the house the kids were at, ya know that shot or that they said that they shot, I went to their house an I told em ya know, don't go by place shootin, if you wanna shoot me, shoot me now, ya know, cuz I'm right here. An, if you wannajump me, then jump me, cuz I'm gonna walk down the road an .an I told em where I was goin, exactly what road I was gonna take an they're like -- no, we don't want no problems, we don't want no problems with then later in the night they see me an stuff an they're flashin

guns in their cars an stuff like that. I don't know .that was those Kings, ya know, an it's like the people that I guess I don't know why they're shootin, jus to get a point across that if they wanna play with guns then everybody's gonna start .ya know, the people-I guess on the Westside, ain't scared to shoot either, ya know. Stufflike that. KC: So, if they were shooting at you, or potentially shooting at you, then they see you as high up in Westside? 134.26 1: Ahh I don't know yeah, I guess. They know where I well, see that's the reason I don't think they were shootin at me, if they were they were jus tryin to scare me, cuz before all this stuff happened, before my mend got hit with the tire iron, there was some King there was a King, he was a younger kid, he's the one that's my bestProject mend's little brother, he came up here an he knows where I live an stuff An, they all know where I live, I mean they've seen me on my balcony before, an they didn't even they shot around the whole, other side of the building, ya know, so it's like that's why I didn't think it was a cuz a me, cuz they, if they wanted to shoot at my house or they wanna shoot me, they know where I live. An, I think they woulda shot at my house, but then again,Society I don't know maybe they were scared huh. Research KC: Has there been a truce agreed upon, or things have just settled down or the gangs have gotten scared or why have things changed? Or, have things changed? l , They've changed with the gun stuff, ya know a lot that was that was jus that one, like I said, it was jus like that one monthGang or month an a half, that there was a lot of shooting an stuff An then ahh some like the guy that's spose to be head of the Kings or whatever, the big shot, his girlmend came over hereHistorical an some other girls an me an one of my mends were sittin on the balcony, she's like "come down here, I gotta talk to ya" an I was I said no, an then she she'sYouth like I ain't strapped" and she lifted her shirt up. An I told her I ain't worried about that, ya know, I ain't worried about you bein strapped, an she's like, she told me, she's like she's like sayin that I knew who was doin the shootings an stuff an accusin me of it. An, I was like well, I don't know who's doin em she goes ''well, I don't know if you know who's doin em, but if you do, jus please tell not to shoot at my house, ya know, cuzMinnesota my kids are there". An, I said well I know how you .well, I know what cha mean, ya know, an then ahh I don't know, after that, I guess, I don't know if theyMinnesota went around to other people too and told em, or what, but then after that it kinda, it slowed down a lot. An then it was jus like the fighting an stuff, an that that never even went very far to fighting. I think it went from like the the signs bein thrown to their gun fight, cuz ya know, I know .all the people I know are will they wann they wann fight one on one, ya know. But, those dudes, they don't wanna fight like that, I mean, they wanna take out bats or they wanna do it five on one, or, ya know somethin like that. A lot a people I know ain't into that, ya know.

136.39 KC: So the Kings are the ones that want to be more violent? J: Well, yeah, they wanna be like with the guns an stuff they do, but, ya know, with the anything else it's jus don't go with em, ya know. An they told em .they were, like for a long time they were like, durin the summer they were like sendin messages to me all the time, an that made me more even more madder, becuz they told me stuff like - "remind David that Kings don't fight they kill", ya know. An, I told em - well I'm still walking, ya know. I've told em all I'm still walking, waz up? Ya know. Ifya gonna claim it, ya know, an ya gonna say that you gonna live by that lifestyle, well then do it ya know. If I that big of a nuisance to em they should a done it, ya know. But, they haven't. An they tell me stuff like that, an like if! don't tell my boys to chill out seeProject cuz they think that I'm running a this one kid, he' from, he lives outta town, he thinks that I'm running the whole show cuz he was tellin everybody to tell me some friends of mine went out to eat an he seen em an he said you tell Jessy, ifhe don't tell his boys to chill that we gonna come over an we gonna shoot em, ya know, an it's like an, they kinda like laughed about it, cuz they said, well why is everybody think it's you, ya know?Society An, I said ''I don't know" ya know. Research 137.51 KC: We won't ask you why everybody thinks it's you, okay. Is there competition in the drug market between the Kings and the Westside? J: Ahhhh somewhat, yeah, there is. GangWith like not with everybody, but with some of the guys yeah there is. Umm the Kings is one it's like a main, one main group or whatever, an they try an I don't know if they try Historicalan portray themselves as high rollers. An, I don't think anybody in Westside really does, if they do they do, ya know, an it's like a low key thing. It's not like theyYouth want everybody to know an these Kings they run around flashin drugs an money or whatever. Ya know, tryin to let everybody know that they got it, like that they have all of what everybody needs or whatever, an that that was I think that has some of the stuff ta do with it, too some like the Jr. High, Sf. High kids kids that were still in school, think that had somethin to do with that with them fighting an stuff KC: Explain that one moreMinnesota to me tell more of how the Jf. and Sf. High kids how that tied in. J: Well, cuz that's like the best place .if you're gonna sell drugs it's the get place to go, cuzMinnesota even the jocks, everybody in High School, ya know, smokes weed at least smokes weed, ifnot more, an that's the best place to go an, ya know, some of those Kings that were goin to school there, ya know, they tryin to make themselves like feared they're tryin to make people scared of em so that they buy drugs from em or whatever. An, it wasn't like that, ya know, cuz, I don't know, they, people were complain about it, ya know. They don't know how ta do it, an, they're rippin people off an shit like stuff like that, so that was it.

139.39 KC: So, as Westside has grown over the summer, then there are more dealers that are coming out of Westside and they've taken some of the Kings market away. J: Yeah. KC: Is that pretty much what you're saying? J: Yeah. KC: What would you say would be the age breakdown in the different organizations? Mostly we've talked about Kings and Westside, I mean, how many of the Kings are over the age of 19, 20 and how many are still in school? J: See, that's the thing, the Kings is, there's only a few there's onlyProject a few of em that are older in this, well like, maybe like 10 of em are older, like over 18, ya know. An that's why they're makin all these little kids do all their dirty work an, that's why it's hard for anybody to do anything to them, cuz they're younger, ya know, ya can't really do nuttin to em. Ya know, they can shoot at ya or they can come to your house an mess wich ya, an ya know, whatever, an it's like it's gonna be your fault if you hit em, cuz you're spose to be the adult, ya know. But, when ya got like 10 people cominSociety after ya, ya know, what are ya what are ya gonna do except fight back, ya Researchknow. An, that's what these older guys on the other side they're like they know that, an they're the ones that are tellin em what to do an all this an that. KC: What's the age breakdown for Westside? J: Umm the majority of em are overGang 18. Ya know, all friends from school. A lot of em are graduated together, older some of em are older. There's some older guys, too. But, not really probably like 20 be about theHistorical age. 141.21 KC: So, like 60 guys are overYouth the age of 20 and 40 are the new kids that have decided to affiliate over the summer. J: Yeah, like that. KC: Like that. Is that 60/40 a good break, or what would you say would be better? J: I'd say probably, I'd probably say about about 70 70/30, because it's like, it was started by older people,Minnesota ya know, we were, the older people that are, ya know, it's it was like kinda they started like gettin sick of it, ya know, an we had already been dealin with it.Minnesota Me an some friends, already we already been like dealin with this for a long time, since I came back an everything since I got outta jail, when I was in jail an we had to put up with that, ya know, cuz there was, we were out numbered an stuff. KC: So, you're talking about putting up with the King stuff. 1: Yeah with like them always talkin like they're bad, an ya know people get sick of that ya know, an they gonna, ya know, figure out some way ta deal with it, ya know. An, that's like how most of em dealt with it. Is they say, awright, well ya know, they ain't

gonna claim no hard core set, but, ya know, they gonna be themselves, an their gonna, their gonna do what they gonna do to, ya know. If they wanna fight, they'll fight or whatever like that. KC: Where does the name Westside come from? 142.37 J: I don't know I haven't really I haven't really asked ya know, I don't I know em an stuff an I hang around with em, but I don't really like I don't get into it, like they do. Ya know, they're I don't know maybe they're secret or somthin I don't know. KC: Okay. So, is Westside Rolling Sixties? J: No. Rolling Sixties is ummm I know a .I got a friend, he's gotta a tattoo on his arm, he's a white kid, too. He's about 21, an a he's got Rolling SixtiesProject on his arm, too, an he's not affiliated with Westside at all, ya know he knows us all well, like yeah he knows us all, but he's not like, he don't come into town an like back anybody up, he's jus he's from the Cities, too, ya know. KC: Yeah, cuz when I was trying to do some asking about, okay, how many sets and everything, I was told that there was the Westside SocietyRolling Sixties Crips and the Latin Kings were the two bigs. So, Westside isResearch not Rolling Sixties? J: No it's not, it's not a Crip set at all. It's not anything affiliated with Crip. It's jus it's friendship is what it is, it's not like like Kings and Vice Lords or that goin together or anything, like that, ya know. 143.55 Gang

KC: What do you get out of it? How do youHistorical feel about being affiliated with a gang? It sound like you've done it for a long time, you know a lot, you're real involved, there's something personally thatYouth you get out of it. J: Umm some of well the feeling is like security, ya know, I feel secure, so I don't have it's like, ya know, my brother's been gone, so I'm kinda like out here, an I I get to a, close with people ya know, to be like where I'm at a brother I feel like it's one of my brothers, ya know, so then I feel safe like that. An, I know that if there down with me, they're gonna haveMinnesota my back an I don't have ta worry about stuff as much, ya know. That's what I that's a lot of it is that, ya know. Jus bein part of, ya know, somethin somethinMinnesota else ya know, jus a I don't know whatever they they don't have much here, ya know, it's like that's what I do an, that's what I like ta do most of the time, ya know. Go out an party, an have a good time, an stuff like that. That's about it. KC: So, that's what's fun. But, now when brother comes back, if he has you back, he's in jeopardy of going back inside, so what are you gonna I mean, you know, you've got him to have fun with, but he doesn't party like you party anymore. He can't and if he gets high, he's gonna go back to those things, and then he's gonna go back inside. So, him

coming back to town, will that make a difference? J: It will with the with the feeling part, the feelings that I the intimate feelings with myself that I can't talk to other guys about, like when I'm, ya know, ifI'm mad about somethin or ifI'm havin a problem with my girlfriend, I don't tell my friends about that stufflike that. It's all superficial stuffwith my friends, an with my brother it's gonna be more intimate of a intimate relationship like that, ya know, with the talkin an everything an the feeling stuff, ya know. Cuz, I know he's changed a lot, he's not as hard as he was when he before. An now he's like ya know, he shows me that he cares a lot more, an like he'll give me a hug or whatever, an tell me he loves me an stufflike that. I got that now, but I'm still gonna keep the affiliation, even tho he's out, but I'm notProject gonna bring him into it, I'm not gonna try and persuade em into bein like that or partyin with my friends or things like that, because I know I know where he's at an I know where I was at. An, I had a choice too, ya know, stay straight an be out with my girlfriend, ya know, my family an stuff, I had that choice too, but I ya know, I chose the the other life, an it's easy ya know, ya don't ya think well sh, I'll go out with my friends ya know, but I ya know, '11 drink a few beers or whatever, come home, have a good Societytime ya know, come home an that's it. But, you don't think about it then, I gonnaResearch out with my friends, we gonna be drivin around, we gonna end up injail, ya know or we gonna get in a fight an we gonna end up in jailor we gonna get in a conflict with someone an they gonna call the cops an we gonna end up in jail, an that stuff jus happens like, ya know, it's like that, it jus happens. An, I know it you sometimesGang you jus don't see it comin an I don't wanna put my brother in that situation where he don't see it comin, cuz he's got his family ya know, an he's been doin good so far, so I wouldn'tHistorical wanna discourage him of that. 147.20 KC: So, it sounds like you'veYouth made a very clear decision that you have a commitment to the gang and that that's a significant piece of your life that you need to stay with. J: Yeah. yep it's yeah. KC: Talk to me about the sense of power that you feel, you know, with your affiliation with the, I'm going to use the word "rank", with the status that you have with the gang. Talk about that. Minnesota 147.47 J: UmmMinnesota I have, I get a Iota respect from people, ya know. The younger people an older people an people my age. They respect the fact that, ya know, I don't push what I am onto other people. I don't, ya know, I don't say - "hey you gonna be this, you gonna be that". Cuz, I know what kinda people I want to have on my back an I want to be down with me, I know those people an I know that, ya know, if there is someone like that, I'll get close with em an I'll be cool with em, ya know. But, I get like I feel like I don't know .jus, ya know, more up there, ya know, than other people, because I feel like I'm one up

on someone because I gotta a Iota back, I gotta a lotta people that respect me, an I gotta a lotta respect for other people. An, that that gives me like up there too, that puts me up there with my friends, cuz a lotta my friends they don't, ya know, it's like there's that respect stuff isn't there, ya know, it's like they're young an they ya know, I act more mature than some of my friends, ya know, an a lotta people respect me for that, an give me a lotta respect for that. An, then with the gang part it's jus some of it's I know some of it's cuz people are scared of me. They know about me an they know about my past, an they know my affiliation an sometimes an I tell people ya know, that that's not what I'm all about, ya know. I am I'm down for my I'm down for my clique, ya know, for my set, ya know, an I always will be, ya know, but I'm not gonna use that against anybody, ya know. I'm not gonna say ya know-- if you don't do thisProject for me, if you don't do that for me or anything if someone comes to my house I act jus ya know, normal with every like straight with everybody, ya know, take your, you know, your shoes off, ya know, don't talk like that in front of my girlfriend stuff like that, it's jus, ya know. An, most of the time I you really don't have to say jus one time come in my house ya know an people are we're sittin here an if we're drinkin orSociety whatever, doin whatever, an my girlfriend's here, ya know, it's .ya know itResearch kinda (unclear) ya know, cuz they can't really swear a lot an everything like that. But, people respect me, ya know, an that's the power I get from that that I feel. KC: Can you get that respect anyplace other than in the gang? J: Umm I get it from, I get it not jusGang from the g I get it from a lot of people. I get it from like police officers have told me, ya know, when you're straight you're a nice guy, ya know it's ya know when you're drinkinHistorical an stuff you can be a real, you can be a real asshole, ya know. An, I can be, I know that. An, I get in their face an we get in each other's faces, ya know.Youth But, a lot of people tell me ya know, that, that they respect me, ya know, that they got respect for me an that not cuz what I've done or anything, but, because of the person that I can be, if! try. I I like that, I like to hear stuff like that, too. Especially when it comes from police, ya know, cuz they know me so well that, ya know, they I know they ain't gonna put up with a lot of stuff every time that I get a minor I go to jail Minnesotamost people they jus let em go home, so I have ta ya know, I've made a lot of I've had to bailout a lot too. I know that they told me, ya know, jailers an police officers,Minnesota judges they've told me, ya know, they've all told me at one point, ya know, that I could be a lot better than how I am I could act a lot better than the way I do an, I know that but 150.56 KC: Cuz what I hear you saying, Jessy, is that you --- you get respect for who you are, and for the knowledge that you have and the maturity that you have so why do you need the gang for that respect?

1: I don't need em, Ijus it makes me feel safe, that's a safe that's like that a safe thing for me. That's something that I can always go back to, ya know. Like if if somethin does go wrong, ya know, if people do loose respect for me, whatever, I still have respect an that from my affiliation, I'll still have that respect. KC: Do you know how to have fun without your gang friends? 151.42 1: Naw not rea I could, I don't like to. Umm, I don't like to go out with my girlfriend, I like to bring my girlfriend to parties, I don't like to bring parties here a lot. I like to go out with my friends, ya know, to meet other, ya know other people an stuff, stuff like that. Ya know, I never really tried to have fun without there's always gottaProject be at least 10, 15 people with me to for me to have fun, otherwise it's gonna be a boring party, or ya know, like that there's gotta be people that I trust, ya know. I don't like I don't like to party with jus anybody, ya know, it's like cuz I don't know ifI don't know somebody I don't like to party with em. It's gotta be people that I know, an that's that's another safety thing, is I'm not gonna get drunk in front of a bunch of people that I don't know, cuz I don't know who they know an I don't know who they'reSociety affiliated with, I don't know where we're gonna end up, ya know, an ResearchI don't wanna get jumped like that when I'm drunk. KC: So the safe place to have fun is only with your gang kids and the respect and the power you get, although you know you can get it other places, but you like it best when you get it. Well, I'm sure you get more powerGang as a gangster, other than just being respected as a mce guy. 1: Yeah I do yep. An, I I think I like theHistorical it's like I said ya know, I don't really got that structure of a straight, ya know a straight kid, ya know, I did lots of time stuff. I get like. I get more like I feel Youthbetter after negative respect that I get, than I do with the positive I mean it makes me feel good, ya know, to hear it once in a while, but I wouldn't want a police officer walkin up to me everyday an sayin ya know bein nice to me like that. Ya know, ifI hear it once in a while, when I'm in like a, ya know, I'm in a bad spot or somethin, people tell me that, that makes me feel good, it makes me think, but ya know, that only lasts for soMinnesota long cuz you don't hear it all the time, it's jus once in a while. Ya know, you don't got someone tellin you that all the time. Like on the weekends my brother'sMinnesota here ya know, it's different. An, I don't go out that much anymore, really I haven't gone out for a long time, a lot of my friends left, ya know. They went, they went out of town or whatever, they moved to Colorado, a lot of people. KC: So, you're clearly saying "I like the negative power because it's constantly there". 1: Yeah --- it's jus like somethin I'm use to, ya know, it doesn't take very much, ya know, it could be little things that even make me feel good. Ya know, like if I took the blame for someone or I didn't let one of my friends go down for somethin, ya know, that I know

even if I know my friend did it, I wouldn't tell on em . like that, that gives me a lot of respect, too, ya know. A lot of people respect me for that, cuz they know I ain't gonna tum tricks for nobody, ya know, an I know that I won't either. That makes me feel good too cuz that's an important thing, it's like that stuff is important when you don't have the structure of, ya know, the upper class or whatever. That's like a for us it's like, for us it's like for rich people. 154.75 KC: Okay. So this say this again, because it's really good. You were saying, again, that this is like the power for like upper class for rich people? 1: Yeah it's the same it's the way I feel. I think the rich people feel the same way I feel, if they were in my situation --- I would feel the same way as them if IProject was in their situation. Ya know, with the way I get my respect or whatever, they might get their's from working hard or havin a lot of money, an I get mine from doin what I do, ya know, whatever I hafta do ta get it I do. An, I don't I try not to disrespect, ya know, I'm not really big on that, but ifI hafta say somethin to someone I'm gonna say. I'm gonna tell em ya know, but I don't I don't go outta my way to be like hard with people,Society ya know, especially older people an stuff, where as sometimes peopleResearch are like that I'm not like that, but that's jus .an, people think that I'm a bad person cuz a that, but that's the only way I really know, ya know, I don't know a whole lot a other ways ta get positive reactions from people, ya know, I gotta do somthin bad, an if that's the reaction I get, that's the reaction I'm used to an that's the reaction I'mGang happy with. KC: Would you like to be a rich person to get power and respect? 1: Ahh, sometimes, but not I think that'dHistorical be a pain too. That'd be a hassle to be rich all the time, cuz then ya never know who ya know, it's like jus like I guess it's like the same way I guess, too, but IYouth look at it different cuz that's what I know, but it's like ya never know who's your friend then, when you're rich, ya know. I don't want it to be like that, ya know. An, that money does stuff to other, ya know, money does stuff ta people an then ya know an I don't got money, so I know pretty much who I am an what I can do, but ya know, I'm still gonna stick with the affiliation an stuff, because that's jus what I'm use to. Minnesota KC: When you started saying this you said something like the words, and I'm afraid that the micMinnesota pulled out, something like - I get the power like the rich people do. Say those words and say more about that again. 157.17 1: Well, it's like I get my respect from what I, like what I do, ya know, bein a gang banger, an I get my respect like that, ya know. An, that's how, I guess that's how rich people get their way by bein rich, ya know, an I'm not rich an, I probably never will be rich, so I'm not gonna try an push myself ta get use ta bein havin respect from that kinda ya know

that kinda level, from a level up there, cuz I'm never gonna get ta that level. I'm happy where I am, an that's where I know, I'm probably gonna stay for the rest of my life, ya know, so I'm jus gonna, I'm use to it an I don't think I, I don't see any reason to change that, ya know, I don't cuz that's jus how I am ya know an, I don't know. 158.04 KC: Does racism play into this? I know you're a Mexican kid and you live in a very much White community, does racism make a difference? J: Yeah, it does, umm, I got, I hang around with these girls these umm these girls a lot an ahh the police tell me stuff like, ya know, ---so, what's up with the White girls, ya know, why are you always with the blonde hair, blue eye girls, ya know, the White girls. An, my girlfriend, she's got ya know, she's White too, an I don't Projectknow. It kinda it makes me mad, ya know, that they think that I'm jus usin em, an they tell the girls, ya know, why do you hang around these guys, you guys are high cla upper class girls, from upper class lifestyles an these guys are like low class, ya know, their their families, ya know, their families are totally different than yours an --- they say stuff like that, ya know ----their money situation, they talk about, ya know, how weSociety don't have the money that the girls do. An, they tell the girls that, ya know theyResearch tell girls like we use an stuff. An, that's jus like, that's not jus police, that's jus everybody, ya know, people in general. A lot of people say that stuff, an they say stuff like that. That makes me mad too, ya know, it's like they don't know they don't know what are motive is, ya know, they don't know why why we hang with these girls,Gang ya know, some, ya know, sometimes it got, it has to do with relationship stuff, ya know. Ya know, some, some of my friends are goin out with the girls, ya know, an I hang out withHistorical em, I don't disrespect em, I don't, ya know, I wouldn't treat em no different than I treat anybody else, ya know, I don't use em for anything. I don't haveYouth to use em for anything, I got my girlfriend, ya know. An, then I don't like people to say stuff like that either, cuz I wouldn't say that about a if it was the other way around, if it was a White guy with a Mexican girl. Cuz, I've seen it before an I don't say, I don't talk down on em about it, ya know. An, that's that's how it is down here, there's a lot of racism, ya know. KC: So, it sounds like youMinnesota get disrespected for the people you hang out with a lot. 1: Yeah, sometimes. Ya know, people talk down. It's not, an it's not like Hispanic people either, it's usually like Caucasian people, ya know, they'll tell me -- ''why are you with a WhiteMinnesota girl?" or they'll tell the girl -- ''why are you with him?" Ya know, like jealous, player hatin an stuff, I don't that get me mad, ya know, like the, I don't know. KC: What other experiences of racism have you had here in Willmar? 1: I don't know, I think, I think .I don't know if it's racism, maybe it's my reputation. But, I do get targeted a lot for a lot of stuff. An, I think I'm a, I'm a easy target for police, cuz of my record, cuz of my criminal history. An, I don't take a lot, I've never

taken anything I've gone to court for to jury trial, ya know, if I did it I'll say I did it, if I didn't do it, I'll say I did, ya know, jus because that's what they're gonna want, ya know, an that's the then they give me these, ya know, plea bargain an stuff an I know it's like .they're jus doin it ta, ya know, so that I go to jail I know that. But, I'm not gonna give them the satisfaction of givin me the full time that they wanna give me either, ya know. A lot of times like they'll put me in jail on the weekends an I'll bailout right away, ya know, jus to throw that in their face that, ya know, jus to be, ya know, a smartass. An, ya know, when I drink an stuff I tell the police when I'm drunk an stuff - ''I'll be out, I'll bail out tomorrow, ya know don't worry about it, you can put me in for a minor -- that's a misdemeanor, that's not even, that's a petty misdemeanor or somethin, it's nuttin to even go to jail for, especially when the jails are full. An, they put me in thereProject anyway, an it's like I guess it's kinda racist, I don't 201.54 KC: It sounds like you're creating a lot of freedom in your life. Like, I'm gonna be who I'm gonna be and I'm gonna be free to be that. Can you talk about that? 1: I'mjus I don't know when I go to like I think that comesSociety from like bein locked up, ya know, they want you to be someone that you'reResearch not, they want cha ta kiss their ass, ya know, they want cha to do stuff like that, an I don't .that frustrates me an then that makes me resent that more, makes me resent the system more an everything. Cuz all that stuff, I recent it, I don't wanna have nuttin to do with it, I wanna be that's part of the gangs thing too, ya know is, I wannaGang bang because I wan em to know that they can keep lockin me up an lock me up an lock me up and lock me up an I'm gonna keep comin back, I'm gonna keep bangin an I'm gonnaHistorical still be a Crip. An, that's jus how I am, cuz I don't know, they try an discourage me or somethin an that's an they don't they try and discourage me or somethinYouth that I know, an send me back to the outs with, ta be somethin I don't know nuttin about, an I don't think I don't think that's right, ya know, I don't think they should do that. An, that's why I'm makin all this freedom for myself, cuz I know J do as much stuff as I can. I I party as much as I can, cuz like in the back a my head, I know that - that this year I'm goin to jail, like last year when I got outta jail, I said I thought - I'm goinMinnesota to jail next year, I know I am, cuz that's how I am, I mean, I'm like a habitual criminal or somethin, ya know, Ijus keep goin back I don't know ifI'm dependentMinnesota on the system, ya know, maybe I'm institutionalized or somethin, but Ijus I know that I'm always gonna go back., so I take advantage of the freedom that I do have, an I won't I don't wanna ya know, ifI go to jail an I got bail, I'll find a way to get the bail money an I'll get outta jail. An, that' jus my way of .like, throwin it in their face they they locked me up, I'm goin get out an be the same person. KC: Have you ever had treatment? Have you ever had any exposure to concepts of addiction? 1: Umm, I went to like drug rehab, but I jus I bullshitted my way through there all easy.

It was simple, ya know, I was, I was smokin weed every day. Go buy this tea for 25 dollars an drink it an give em a test, an clean an act like nuttin was happenin an, they didn't even they didn't even do nuttin, they didn't care. I mean you can you can tell pretty much when you're using somethin to clean your system, ya know, it's pretty obvious, but they didn't really care. An, then, I jus I was spose ta finish my treatment an I left town an they didn't even they didn't do nuttin, they didn't violate my probation or nuttin. The only one I that really had any impact on me, was when I was in Mille Lac's, an that's cuz it was like a an that's what you did 8 hours a day was treatment. You talked about problems all day an all night an- go to school for a couple hours, an go right back downstairs an your in this little room talkin, ya know, with a bunch of other people, an that was .that was awright. I tried to get in some anger classes,Project but that didn't work either, jus recently. KC: Jessy, you said it in different words, but let me throw out a concept to you, and you may or may not have a reaction. One of the things that we're beginning to see is that people get addicted to gang life. I mean you've been through enough rehab that you kind of understand basic concepts of addition, which means I can't,Society it's very difficult to not continue to go back to it. Do you think that thereResearch could be a piece that you're addicted to being in the gang? 205.31 J: Ya, ifl sit in this apartment too long, I get I throw like I get like crazy like, any little thing like flies will make me mad Gangan I'll anything will make me mad jus like I get, I mean I get really mad, mad, .mad enough to break stuff, ya know, ifa fly's buzzin around my head an I can't kill it, I'll kick the tableHistorical or kick a chair I gotta be out with my friends, otherwise I feel like I'm jus locked up, ya know, like, cuz that how it is when you're locked up. You can't Youthsee your friends, ya know, an that's to me that's one of the most important things is to be with my friends, ya know, an ta be out partyin an havin fun even if it's not right, ya know, that's me. KC: Ya know, I also hear you talking about accepting a lifestyle of taking full advantage of being free when you're free, but knowing you're always going to be going back to prison. J: Yeah, that's how MinnesotaI feel. 206.25 end of tapeMinnesota Tape 21 .10 KC: We've talked about the power and the respect, we've talked about the freedom that you use. We've talked about the fun that you have and that that's the way you know how to have fun, what about love. Do you get a sense of love from the gang?

.27 1: Ummm, not not not these, not the people I'm with now. Before, when I first was in, yeah it was like, I had like a .they would gimme stuffya know. I got a lotta stuff. Clothes an stuff, ya know, whatever. It was like, ya know, ya hang out an have a good time an if you didn't have money, it was no big deal, ya know, an it was jus like, ya feel like - god ya know, that's my family ya know, cuz that's how a family should take care of you, ya know. They should have you no matter what, ya know. Through thick an thin, an that's kinda how it was in the gang, ya know. I mean they didn't come an see me or send me cards or anything, when I was locked up, but that's not the way we run stuff that's not the way we are, ya know. But, I always knew I always know that, that they respect me an that they're thinkin about me. Cuz, I know when my friendsProject I got some friends locked up now, an I'm thinkin about them, ya know, an ya know, an I do the, usually, ya know, pour out the liquor an all that, ya know, for all my friends ya know, but, ya know, yajus hafta wait an see what happens, ya know. Ya know, ya either ya gonna see em up there or you're gonna see em when they come out. An, that's that's gonna make you feel good, ya know. It's jus like when your friends goSociety away it's jus like losin a family member to you, ya know. Depending onResearch how tight you are an the people that are gone now is people that I was real tight with, too. An, those were people that I was with every day, all day, all the time, ya know. An, that's, that's a love thing right there ya know, we don't say it to each other, but you can feel it, ya know. You can feel when someone when someone knows thatGang you're down for them an ya know that they're down for you. You can jus you know, you got that feeling inside that "hey that, I can trust this kid, ya know, I can trust this guy taHistorical watch me, ya know, if I'm drunk I can take em with me anywhere an I know that I'm gonna be awright, an he knows that he's gonna be alright. That's the kindYouth oflove that we have with each other. KC: But, you said it's not the people now. If you walk into a correctional facility and somebody says "what's your affiliation?" What would you say right now? 1: I say I'm 9 0 Mafia, Crip. KC: Are there any other 9 0 Mafia Crips here in Willmar with you? 1: No no, not really.Minnesota They're around, they come down here, ya know, I had a friend come down from the Cities jus recently, I haven't seen em like three years, an all of a sudden he jusMinnesota popped up. An, he lives not far from here, so I go out an see him once in awhile. We drink an have fun, party an stuff. KC: Where does he live? J: They live in Benson right, like it's not that far from here. KC: Culturally, what are 9 0 Mafia usually? 1: A lot of Blacks an Latinos. Lot of the majority of em are Black. There's a lot of Latinos too.

KC: You refer to the police several times. What do you think of the police? J: I don't I don't care for em. I mean, I could do without seein em every day drivin by my house, ya know but, well that's there job, ya know an I guess they uhh if that's what they chose to do, that's what they chose to do, ya know. I don't, I don't hate I don't hate really any of em ya know. I know that usually when they come, I'm in the wrong, ya know, I know that I'm not gonna deny an say they're out to get me, ya know, cuz there's I guess, ya know, there's probably some of em that aren't, that really don't like me for some reason, or another, ya know. An, that's on them. Ya know, I don't see em every day an I don't live with em, so I don't care what they think, really, ya know. I don't associate I don't make it my I don't make it my objective to know what they're doin, like they do with me, ya know. I'm sure they .they wanna Projectknow what I'm doin, an where I'm at all the time, ya know, because,. because ofwho I am. An, that's there job, but I don't go outta my way to talk to em or be a dick to em, or even be nice to em. If! see em an they say hi, I'll say hi but that's about it. KC: There have been some men who have served time in prison and after several times in prison have come out and have been consultants to law enforcement,Society saying "ok, this is what you should do to catch thieves breaking intoResearch houses" and things like that. If you were to be a consultant to law enforcement, what would you tell the police to do to stop the gang activity? 5.06 J: I'd tell em ta ya know they gotta putGang more effort, ya know, forget about that jail they want, forget about all that, an focus on .if they want this gang stuff to stop they gotta start, ya know, gettin into .gettin targetinHistorical the younger kids 11, 12 not wait until their in Jr. High, cuz it starts in 5th grade. Now, I gotta nephew, an, ya know it's not gang, but, it's not gang related,Youth but they were talkin about NWO an that wrestling stuff, but that's how that's jus the same thing, ya know, that's probably. I see it as a start, ya know. An, I told my nephew, he's only 11, he's like the NWO is all the Latino's, the Chicano's an stu££: an the .there was another one, WWF, was the White kids an they was fightin each other, an I said well didn't your teachers, ya know, I asked him ifhis teachers had said anythingMinnesota about that, that it I said that's, that's racism, ya know, no matter what, whether it's wrestling or not, it's racism you got Mexicans against Whites, thatMinnesota jus, that's jus racism. An, I think they should be goin to the schools of the younger kids an, ya know, teachin em about racism, ya know, an, ya know, showing them that, ya know the different life styles. Cuz, a majority of correctional facilities that I was in didn't have no books for our for Latino's, ya know. Then I wrote to (unclear) an told em, an they said that they're not required to have books about my, .my background, my ethnic background. An, I disagreed with em, cuz I told em there was a lot of other literature in there ya know, there was everything about Columbus, ya know, an Martin Luther King an

all that. An, I said I didn't see nuttin about, I seen maybe two books in the Sauk Center Library about Latino's. An, I think that's where the police should maybe, ya know, instead a I mean they this they gotta be more concerned about us older people cuz we're more serious about it, but ya know at the same time they gotta stop it at the younger kids, too, before it gets outta hand, because it's gonna get worse, ya know, it's gonna get a lot worse. An, I can see that, cuz I see kids my nephews age smokin weed an stuff like that, ya know, an it's like yeah ya know. KC: Your talking about prevention. 7.17 J: Yeah. KC: Here in Willmar, what are the preventative things what could the Projectcommunity do to help, let's focus on the Mexican kids, the Mexican kids not want to be in gangs? J: I think they need to focus on the family setting a lot more, an maybe have a , I don't know, like maybe Caucasian people, ya know, older Caucasian males that would be willin to work with younger Hispanic kids, ya know. To let em see a different lifestyle maybe instead a, ya know, cuz we all know, as MexicanSociety kids growin up, we know about the racism, we know about the parties anResearch the drugs an ya know, a lot of us know about that, that's, ya know, but, there's another side too, ya know, there's another lifestyle. An, that doesn't mean you hafta sell it to your race or anything like that, it's jus another way ta live, ya know. An, it's not jus all the White people it's like jus I'm sure there's like Hispanic people too in theGang Community that could do a Iota good, but I think they need to be encouragin people more to get involved with the younger kids, cuz there's not a whole lot of involvement. They sendHistorical em to like, like that Alanon an stuff they send em to places like that, but that that ain't nothing either man, that's jus a bunch ofBS too. I think it is. I thinkYouth people need to sit down an talk with kids, ya know, see what's goin on in their lives with all kids, jus see what's goin on ya know in school, have more time, ya know, whether they can get out an talk to people, ya know, counselors or whatever, have more counselors available an, ya know, like I said have like look at the issues from the past, ya know, for kids, ya know, look into their backgrounds, ya know see what their family'sMinnesota like an then if they're at risk, give em some opportunities to change, ya know, or some people to set ro ya know, some role models or somethin, somethinMinnesota like that. I think that's what they need ta do. KC: Good stuff. __ and I were talking and I asked, where do the Mexican families celebrate, where do they gather, where do they get to know each other. You know, where do they celebrate Cinco de Mayo, and he said there is none of that, there are no Mexican celebrations here.

9:27 J: No, there aint. Nuttin like that. The only place your gonna meet if you want to meet other Hispanic people your gonna need to go to church, the Hispanic church, otherwise you go to the park, an, then, ya know, the only good place is still probably the church, cuz in the park it's all really the parties, an ya know the drinkin an stuff like that an drugs. That's a open area, ya know, people are gonna feel free to do what their gonna do an that's not a good example for the kids either, ya know. An, then a lot a people don't don't, pushed on their kids ta I wouldn't wanna. I wouldn't wanna push anything on, if I had kids to push em on to go to church or anything, but I think they should give em that option an if their willin to do it, ya know, support em in that, an ya know, help em do that, ya know, if that's what they wanna do. Kids now think I thinkProject there's like, there's not enough support for kids nowadays, at all. Ya know, it's jus lock em up put em in Prairie Lakes, put em in Prairie Lakes. An then, kids jus when you put a kid in the correction facility that makes em, that makes em think even get even bigger head about who he is as a gang member, ya know, an that's gonna make wanna, do a ya know, be hard get into it harder ya know an put more dirt in, so thatSociety he can get more up there. Ya know that's what I did, ya know, Ijus I went Researchto correctional facility once, an the first time I was scared, but everybody that was there that had been there before that was older was like already affiliated hard, ya know, an they been there a lot. An then, that's what I did, I made myself up there too, I put myself up there, brought myself up there so that next time I go to correction facilityGang they know that I'm affiliated an it's not gonna be as hard as the first time. An it's jus gon, ya know, hopefully it'll keep gettin easier, ya know. As you get older facilities change,Historical ya know, an ah things change environment of it. It goes from like Prairie Lakes to bein violent, maybe Stillwater or somthin, where it's gonna be more violence.Youth KC: It sounds like when you went into the correctional facility you had some very good mentors that mentored you into being a gangster. 1l.26 J: Yeah. KC: What if you had someMinnesota good mentors that would mentor you into being a non-gangster? J: I think ah I think ah I woulda been a lot different. Cuz, when I was little I was, I wasn't like, I was never mean or nuttin. I was quiet, ya know. Liked to play with toys an stuffMinnesota like that an then it jus all changed I'm a totally different person now than I was when I was younger, I ya know. Cuz, I didn't have any role models or anything, ya know. An then, when I seen police it was cuz, they were there to arrest somebody, ya know, an that made me not like them either, ya know. An they never, ya know, they don't .there's not enough mentors an stuff for kids nowadays. An, ya know that's kinda sad, an maybe maybe it is a racism thing, ya know, maybe the police don't wanna put that effort

if they think that the Latino the Mexican people are so, so much the gang bangers an everything why don't they try an help em, ya know, that's what I don't understand. I don't understand why they're not tryin to get money ta, ya know, maybe build even a like a youth center or somethin anything like that. They jus wanna build a bigger jail so they can put more people, in jail. They ain't focusing on anything else, an the jails, they don't have nuttin for the guys that go in there, ya know. People go in there ignorant an they come out ignorant, ya know. I don't think that's right either. I think they should have more educational stuffin there, ya know, cuz there's, I've met people in jail that don't wanna be goin to jail all the time, they ya know, that's not what they want, ya know. It's jus .that's what they know, they gonna steal or their gonna do whatever, burglaries or whatever they're in there for, an that's how they knowProject how to make money. Some, a Iota kids, like myself, I don't know how ta work, ya know. I don't, I hate to work, I jus started this job an it sucks, ya know. KC: Well, and if you know that numbers aren't your favorite thing and the jobs a lot about numbers, go get yourself another job and find one that you can like. 1: Ahhh it's not about liking, it's about not knowing how notSociety really knowing how. I don't know how ta have that my mind set inta that'sResearch a that's not a priority to me, ya know. That wasn't, ya know, if you're gonna lock a kid up, ya know, if you're gonna lock up someone in a correctional facility don't make em jus sit in a room all day, you gotta teach, you gotta teach em how ta do stuff, cuz, if not, they're gonna they're gonna keep goin back to the facility .an then the schoolingGang programs that they have ain't that great either that's not gonna that's not good enough, ya know. They need tajus start teachin kids how ta work an stuff, ya know .maybe Historicalnot like boot camp, that's kinda hard, ya know, but like, ya know, if you put more kid in the treatment centers an dealt with their issues an got em a job, I think it,Youth they'd have a lot the thing wou it'd be a lot better, ya know, the whole thing. The violence an everthing it'd come down ifkids knew how ta live a healthy life, instead of the life they grew up with. KC: What are you angry at? You've referred that you need to deal with your anger, what are you angry at? 14.39 Minnesota 1: I think there are a lot ahh a lot a things. Mom some some, like some family stuff ya know, a lot of it. It's like my mom and my dad, my mom tellin me about how my dad use taMinnesota be abusive an stuff an I don't like ta hear that. An then she then, as I was gettin older, I got more violent an more verbally abusive to my mom, I never got physically abusive with my mom, I don't I could never do that, but I got verbally abusive, I've, I've called her every name that I could think of, ya know, I called her hoe, slut stuff like that, an I was 14, 15 years old. An, I was mad at my mom because she use to tell me, ya know, you're jus like your dad. An then she'd tell me all this bad stuffmy dad an then compare

me to my dad an say I'm equal to my dad, that made me mad, ya know. That made me think low of myself, ya know. I think that's with a lot a kids, ya know, it's like a self esteem think, too, ya know. They don't know how to express their feelings an they've .their self esteem has been jus shot to hell, ya know. An, takes time to get your self esteem back up ya know then sometimes it only lasts for a little bit an ya gotta you're jus not use to it, it's too scary so, you gotta go back to that low self esteem an everything that's negative, ya know cuz you don't know how to deal with positive stuff That's how I look at it. I don't know how to deal with positive stuff, an I don't know how ta be faithful to my girlfriend er not drink er stuff like that. I gotta stuff that I gotta do, cuz I feel uncomfortable any other way bein straight, ya know. I'm not a straight person. KC: So are you lying to me in this interview? Project 1: No, I, I, well like, ya know, ya know what I mean like KC: Yeah no 1: My lifestyle I jus I'm not, I'm not really, I can't be faithful ta my girlfriend, ya know, an that's what people expect a me, ya know. Ta be working an be faithful an that's not the kind a lifestyle I'm I ahh live. I'm not use ta workin,Society I'm use ta bein out partyin an with other girls an stuff like that, ya know. Research KC: But, you work. I mean you're an entrepreneur, you run another kind of business - don't you? 1: Dol? KC: That would be my assumption. Gang 1: KC: Ya know, I'm gonna I'm gonna challengeHistorical you. In that, I think you're giving me a straight interview. I think you can be straight. I agree with you that it's not what you've practiced doing and soYouth when you do something different than what you're use to, it feels uncomfortable. But, if you decided to do it, you could do it. 1: Well, I'm pretty I'm pretty confidant that I could too, but it's jus it's awkward, ya know, an I don't like bein I like to have security, I like to be stable I like to know what I'm doin an I don't like to take, learn new things an stufflike that, really. Cuz, I've been like this for 7Minnesota years an that's a long time to be livin the way I've been livin, for me it is, an for ya know, it's not like a big town an stuff, so it's like it doesn't take much ta have a really bad life, ya know, because I don't I'm sure it's worse than other places, but forMinnesota here, for what I'm goin through it's bad enough for me, that I know that's what I'm use to. KC: Ok. Let me through out an idea. What would happen if what I'm hearing you say is this is the only way I know how to be an when I try to be different it feels really awkward and really uncomfortable and I have to do it all by myself and that's, well I'm a man, I can't say that's scary, but it would sound scary to me. What would happen if you were in

some type of a treatment program where they would help you learn to be different and you had the support like you did when you were at Mille Lac's treatment program, you had the support daily, you had the people to talk to, you had the people to give you ideas on how to do it, and you had somebody walking hand in hand with you learning to live this new lifestyle of being straight. Would that help you be straight? 18.51 J: Yeah I think so, because, I mean, I thas I think that would help. Ya know, I've done it before, but, it's like when, I was doin good in there, but when I came out there was nothing, my brother was still locked up, an that's my main support was my bro has always been my brother. When my mom left, he took care a me, ya know, but an that's how I got in trouble, ya know. Because that was that was part ofProject the anger, too the armed robberies is, all goes back to the anger. An, I think if people were willin ta to stuff like that with other people, I think it would make a big difference an all kinds of statistics or whatever, everthing that goes on, everything that people are concerned about. If people would jus look at, look at the problem, ya know, instead a sayin build another jail, put em in jail, put em in prison. If people would try an understand where we're comin from, I think it'd be a lot better, ya know, I thinkResearch it'd be a lotSociety more helpful they'd, they'd make a lot more progress. KC: If people would try and understand, but is that about understanding and then helping you understand and giving you the support that you need to change. Is that what it's about? 1: Somewhat yeah. r d like to haveGang more support, ya know, with within the community. Cuz, I know, .there's people that I don't even know, that know me an that's kinda that, that makes me mad too, ya know, it's likeHistorical because, ya know, how are people gonna say they know me, when I don't know them, ya know. Or, someone hears my name - "oh yeah, I know Jessy. " Youthbut, they don't know me, they know what they heard, that's all. KC: So, you've got a reputation. 1: Yeah. KC: Significant one. 20.34 1: Uh umm. Minnesota KC: Jessy, what if you, what ifwhen you came out of Mille Lac's and you had support for a year, where you had somebody that you could check in with several times a week, that youMinnesota could talk to anytime that you needed, that would have helped you learn a different lifestyle, do you think you would have been different? 2l.01 1: I think so. Ahh, cuz, when I came out I didn't wanna go back to bein the person I was, ya know, they make ya know, they make ya think about stuff an, when you're in treatment like that. That's what, that's what they make you think. They, ya know, it's

not like jail ya got the choice, you can think or you can do your time, ya know, an when I was in jail I thought about stuff, ya know, an ahh .when I was in Mille Lac's they make you think, so it's like .ya know they make you think about, the other people, the people you're affecting, not jus yourself, an when they put you in jail, it makes, it makes a person self centered, ya know, it made me self centered, cuz I lotta things I don't care about, like my girlfriend an stuff. KC: You don't care about her? 1: Well, I mean, I don't care how she feels an stuff, like that. KC: Why don't you care about how your girlfriend feels? 1: Well, I care about how she feels, like .I don't wan I don't like to make her feel bad, but I don't really cares about what she thinks about, like, my life, cuzProject she tells me stuff like - why you---why you do this? or why you why do you, ya know, go with your friends all the time? An, I don't, it's like, I'm gonna have I'm free now, I'm not in jail no more, I need ta get out an do stuff. An, that's how I feel like, like it don't matter. Ya know, this thing with my family, too, ya know, I'm self centered when it comes to that too, ya know, CUZ, I got a lot a nephews and nieces, brothers an sistersSociety an that. An all my nephews an nieces, my nieces especially, they loveResearch me, ya know, they see me an it's always big hugs an stuff an stuff like that, an I like that, ya know, but I don't think about them, ya know. I don't think about how their gonna feel when they don't see me for a year an then I pop in an out, ya know, like I have been lately. KC: Why? Why don't you think about it?Gang 22.46 1: Because I'm so I'm so set that I'm gonnaHistorical go back that I need ta do what I wanna, like what I wanna do, ya know. Like, I wanna go out an party an I don't I don't care what happens, ifl get a minor,Youth I get a minor. KC: So, what's it gonna take for you to decide that you're not gonna go back and live a lifestyle that's gonna keep you out, instead ofa lifestyle that's gonna take you back? 1: Hopefully.I don't know, this is hopefully this'll be the last time I mean, I hope my brother does good, ya know. An, ya know, he can be that hopefully he can be that role model for me that I'veMinnesota been missing for awhile. Ya know, I know who I am, I'm, I know who I am, ya know an I'm not, I don't need to jus lean on him, but I need ta maybe see that he's gonna get positive, he's gonna get a positive reaction for everything he does, anMinnesota not jus for certain things. An when he get out, ya know, an he does it on his own, ya know, hopefully that'll attract me the attention that he gets, the positive attention he gets, will attract me to takin that lifestyle up, too. An maybe stayin straight but, right now, I don't think, I don't think about goin, bein like that. 23.52 KC: And, you know what my biggest fear is, cuz I really like your brother? My biggest fear is

that he's gonna try to help you so hard that he'll get pulled back in or he'll step up some time to try to help you and he'll get accused and then he'll go back in, too. That's my fear. J: I think about that too. That's why like, I don't know. I worry I I think about that like what if, ya know, cuz I know he's like me, he's not gonna snitch, he won't turn tricks, an what if somethin does happen, where, ya know we're both involved maybe, but I do it an he gets blamed for it, ya know, I'm gonna wanna, I'm not gonna want him to say he did it. I'm gonna wanna say I did it, ya know. An it don't it probably won't even matter because he's, because of his past it won't matter whether I take the blame for it or not, cuz he's gonna their gonna, ya know take his freedom away, too they gonna take his family they gonna take him away from his family, too, ya know.Project An, I worry about that too, an that's why I say I'm jus gonna, ya know, he's gonna be the part that I haven't had for the last few years, ya know, that he's been gone he's gonna fill that back up, ya know, where I can talk to him about stuff 24.55 KC: Well, my fear is that he's not even with you when you do it,Society but because of his record he gets focused or he tries to slow you down or stopResearch you, and. . . . . What else do I need to ask you? You did talk about the police doing prevention, but what about traditional police stuff Besides focusing on the younger kids and helping getting them into prevention, what else can the police do in traditional police tactics to stop gangs? Gang J: I don't know. KC: What are the police doing here in Willmar?Historical And, does any of it work? J: They don't really they say that they got like people that are drivin around, ya know, jus plain clothes cops an stuffYouth That I've been arrested by police an I've asked, ya know, who's that? An they tell me --- don't worry about it--- ya know --- well, is he a new cop? --- don't worry about it, he knows who you are an that's all that matters --- an stufflike that. An, it's like, ya kow, what's that all about, ya know. I don't understand that because, I don't know if that's what their talkin about with this gang stuff, ya know. But, they've told me ---Minnesotathey like have you --- ya know, they've asked me an I don't see em like really puttin a big effort into it. I think they're jus waitin for everybody to get everybody else in trouble, ya know. So that they do it the easy way. They ain't like makin anMinnesota effort to go out an, ya know, talk to people an see what's goin on in people's communities, ya know. They throw those little gatherings once in awhile or whatever. But, how are you gonna talk to 250 people at one time, ya know. Cuz, I'm sure everybody's got questions. Ya know, the whole community, everybody in the neighborhood's gonna have a question, ya know. An, ya can't jus tell em a bunch a stuff that they don't know nothing about an expect em to deal with it. Ya know, I think the

police need to get more involved in the community, instead a, ya know, jus drivin around an stuffwhat they do, ya know. 26.57 KC: How would it make a difference in your life, if the police were more involved in, it's called Community Policing, knowing the community, knowing people, helping people. Would that stop your gang banging? 1: No that's that's a choice people make, ya know. I don't think they can't stop nobody from doin nothing really. They can help slow it down, ya know but, I don't think, I don't think if the cops were comin over here an talkin to me, it's gonna make me stop banging. Cuz, I, probably for one, I probably wouldn't let em in, ya know, but, I don't I jus don't think it would help for me, personally. Project KC: So, is there anything that the police can do to stop the Latin Kings and Westside? 1: Probably not jus hopefully they can catch, hopefully all they ya know all they can really do is jus catch the younger kids an try to help them. Cuz, for most of us, ya know, we're old enough, we know what we're gonna do an ifwe're gonna stop an ifwe're not an, that's up to us, ya know. But, we don't .they're not gonnaSociety be able to influence us like they maybe be able to influence younger kids. That'sResearch the only way they, it ain't gonnajus stop but, they can decrease it a lot if they get involved with kids. KC: What happens if the police arrest you and arrest other older significant leaders and they throw 20 people in jail. Will that stop the gang situation in Willlmar? 1: Umm I, I don't think so, because, Gangwell for one if they put us altogether in ajail it's gonna be a lot more problems they're gonna have to deal with in jail, but it's like kids are gonna, ya know, I don't know I don'tHistorical look at myself as a mentor to anybody in a bad way. I try an ya know, stay, like keep my gang issues away from younger kids, like my nephews an stuff an theYouth kids in the apartment building. I don't bring, I don't wear like colors in the hallway an stuff. I don't let my friends hang out in the hallways an stuff like that. I don't set that, kinda like whatever you call, ya know. KC: Atmosphere. 1: Yeah I don't set that atmosphere in my building er in the building, ya know, but, .I don't know, ya never know,Minnesota you can't really say who looks up to you an who doesn't, cuz, I don't ask kids if they look up to me, an I, I probably wouldn't, I wouldn't encourage em to look up to me. But, ya know, if someone ifl got arrested, ya know, there there's gonnaMinnesota be someone that's gonna take my place or there's gonna be someone that's gonna, ya know, resent the fact that maybe I got arrested or maybe one of the other, ya know, the leaders of the Kings or whatever, maybe they're gonna. the younger 15, 16 year olds are gonna resent that, an that's gonna make things worse too, ya know. 30.01 KC: So, am I hear you saying, that if let say they arrest 10 Latin Kings, 10 upper/older Latin

Kings and they arrest 10 upper/older West siders and they send them to different prisons around the state of Minnesota, that there are going to be other people that will step up into the leadership positions? 1: Yeah they're gonna want to. Or, there gonna they're jus gonna be jus takin care of everything until that person comes back. Ya know, cuz after you go to prison ya know the way you look at it, is if, when you get out of prison your even more (unclear) ya know, more bad ass, like that. I think that's how the kids look at it. An, ya know, I think if the police really wanted to stop it, I think, ya know, they need ta do somethin, ya know, ta get the people together, ya know. Cuz, I don't a Iota the Kings, the older ones it's like, ya know, I don't, like, some older ones, I don't got a problem with one of em, ya know, he's never said nothing to me an I've never said nothing to Projecthim, an he's supposed to be the leader. An, I think if they had, ya know, some of the more serious people sit down an talk about it an, ya know, everybody, ya know, jus decide to go their own ways, ya know, or whatever, an ya know, maybe that would help. Ya know, maybe that'd be settin they need the older people ta set an example for the younger people. Cuz, if that's the people that these kids are looking up to, me bein older anSociety those older Kings, ya know, their age, if that's what the kids are looking up to,Research then maybe they we need to set an example for the kids. Ya know, instead a maybe pushin, CUZ, if we started it, ya know, an everybody else is concerned about it, then maybe we should stop it too, ya know. I mean, I've told a lot of my friends to chill out, ya know, with all that stuff, ya know. With the throwing signs at ya know, yaGang know, if someone's not sayin nuttin to you, don't say nuttin to em. Ifthey throw somethin at you, then throw it back, ya know or throw it down or if they say somethin to you, sayHistorical it back if they swing at you, swing back, ya know, but, ya know, there's no, I don't really see I don't go out an look for problems, ya know I don't get problemsYouth unless I'm with jus me an my girlfrieind or there's a lot of them an a little of us. Ya know, then ya don't really see problems, an that's. I think, I think that's how they, the only way the police are gonna be able ta do anything about it, is gettin people together an talkin about it, maybe, an I don't even know if that would work, cuz I don't know, there's a lot a like fusion, animosity towards each other, that we don't, ya know, nobodyMinnesota even wants to be seen by we don't even wannna be seen in the same store as them. Ya know, that's how much we don't like them, that's how much they don't like us. 32.34 Minnesota KC: Interesting concept. Very interesting concept. So, I like what you just said. I like so much of what you say. I've never done an interview this long, but you're so great. But, let's play out that story, ya know, that the leaders, how many leaders of the Kings would they have to take out? Five? J: To put em in jail, or

33.12 KC: If they were going to arrest the true leaders of the Kings, how many would there be? J: There would be probably like that I know that are really like the ones that I've heard that are the real down, About six of em, five or six of em. KC: So, they arrest five or six of the Kings. How many of the Westside would they have to arrest that are the leaders? J: Well like four, three or four. KC: Ok. Three or four Westside, five or six Kings, ten people, they send them away. What would happen here in Willmar, would it be more war - other people stepping up to take over the control, or would things, would the younger kids get kinda scared and kind of fall away. Project J: I think if you took away the older people, I think ah for Westside I can say, if you took away the older guys from the Westside, it'd be a lot more wild than it is, ya know. Cuz, like, we I know a lot of em agree, the older ones agree that it's not about the violence an stuff it's, ya know, everybody likes money that's what it's all about, it's not about colors really any more, it's about money, ya know, an, it's like, ya know, that's our that's our click to em, that's somethinResearch we're gonnaSociety go back to every time. An, that's gonna be the reason for everything, but ya know, ifahh there'd be other kids ya know, kids would be gettin crazy, ya know, cuz, they're not gonna have people above them, even tho we're not, people that they're gonna think are above em tellin em what to do, ya know, like don't be startin shit,Gang ya know, don't start shit unless they start, ya know. An, don't be goin out looking for the problems, ya know, if they bring it to you then, ya know, defend yourself, ya know, do whatHistorical ya gotta do, ya know, we got your back, ya know. They're gonna hear that from me I'll tell em I'll tell anybody that. That if they bring it, that I'm gonnaYouth have someone's back, but I'm not gonna encourage people. I don't encourage kids to go - go out an bang, go out an retaliate, cuz maybe my friend got beat up, when my friend go beat up, I went by myself, I didn't get a bunch a kids, ya know, but they showed up anyway, they were all there, they knew about it, but, I don't know, I don't know how much the Kings I don't know how much I don't know they really run it, but I thinkMinnesota that a lot of it had to do with that too, when those girls came here an told us to chill out, an I think they did the same with their own, they told em, the younger kids to chill out, ya know, cuz, I've told the older guys, ya know, the one that I getMinnesota along I don't get along with em, but, that I know, I told him, ya know, I was like, ya know, the only problem that I have is that you got these little kids runnin around throwin signs, flashin guns at me. I'm a lot older an I've been through a lot more an I'll whoop all their asses, ya know, but ya know, I said thas not gonna solve anythin, I said, ya know, ya need ta tell em to chill out because ya know shits gonna get real crazy, ya know, an thas jus how it'll end up bein, ya know. Cuz, people can only, ya know, you can only put

up I can only put up with so much stuff before I really get pissed off, ya know. An, I've told my probation officer that too, I can only put up with so much shit for so long before I'm gonna snap, an then I don't, ya known, than I don't care, so I know if I get caught beatin someone up, I'm gonna go so I'm gonna make it worth it, an I don't want that to happen either. Ya know, everything has chilled out, ya know, it's been real chill. Ya know, ya still got the gang signs bein thrown an everything, but, ahhhh it's not the same, really. 36.36 KC: What are Westside signs? J: Westside.I don't know, they just throw .I throw like that, ya know, I throw a six point star. An they throw like that or somethin I don't know how they throwProject it, there's always different ways. KC: Jessy, what else do I need to ask you? J: Ah I don't know. KC: Anything else that you can think of to tell me? What haven't I asked you that you thought I might ask you? J: I don't know really. I didn't really know what Researchto expect, reallySociety so. It's good to get it out, ya know. I mean, I'm glad I'm talkin about it, ya know, cuz maybe what I say can or will help, ya know. Maybe they'll look at some of the stuff that I say, maybe the police or whoever. Ya know, maybe they will maybe they'll have some kind of influence, maybe it'll make em think about, theGang correction facilities an everything. Even if they do have correction facilities, maybe they'll put more treatment into it, than jus lock up. An, that'd be a big think that'd be a big stepHistorical towards, ya know, helpin the younger kids, ya know. I think it would, I think it would have helped me. 37.53 Youth KC: It would have helped you. But, what's gonna help you now, cuz your only 20 years old, you're a kid. J: I don't know. I don't know what's gonna help me. I've .I try an think about ways to change, ya know. I've, I don't get into it get into it, like make an effort ta do it. But, I think ifI was gonnaMinnesota change, I'd like to go to school, ya know, be a physiologist, ya know, an deal with, work with younger kids an stuff like that ya know. That'd be somethin I'd wanna do, because I know the counselors that were helpin me, they had a good education, anMinnesota they, ya know, they knew what they were talkin about but it was, it was ahhh workbook shit, ya know, it was school shit that they were talkin about. It's not that they been through it, cuz they didn't really know they didn't have no idea I spose that's why they didn't talk about the gangs, cuz they never had ta deal with it. They don't know how ta deal with it, ya know. But, I'd like to, because I've had the, ya know. IfI was gonna ever do somethin like that, I'd work with the younger kids, because I've had the

experience, I think I'd have a bigger impact on the younger kids than ahhh someone that jus went to school for it, ya know. 38.55 KC: Okay, so I have a group of kids that are wanting to get out of gangs, I work with kids in various settings and young adults that want to get out of gangs, tell me what approach should I take, how should I approach it, how should I work with them. 1: Umm it's mostly jus ahh ya know you gotta be jus really understanding, ya know. Some of the stuffkids talk about, some of the stuffkids have done, is bad, ya know, an that's, I mean where I was at a lot a people looked up to me cuz I was like, I was goin through the program real fast an I was ya know, I knew what was goin on an some other kids were struggling an I'd try an, ya know, I try I try to be Projectreal understanding with em an the staff they'd like me they'd like me ta do a lot of one on one's with people, ya know. They use ta ask me ta do a lot of one on one's. An that's where Ijus talk to kids one on ya know talk to the kids in my group, the same age as me, but ya know I talk to em one on one an see what's goin on, an it's like .it's gotta be a sincere thing, ya know, for someone to help em it's gotta be someone, ya know ya gotta make it so that they know that you're really that you're truly gonnaResearch not jusSociety cuz you're gettin paid, ya gotta let em know that you're doin it cuz ya care, ya know. Cuz that cuz, a lot a kids see right ya know, they're gonna say, "hey fuck, they're jus doin it cuz they're gettin paid an I'm gonna play along with it cuz I have to," ya know. But, when you got someone that cares, ya know, like I had a counselorGang that cared about me, two of em, that cared about me an I felt that an that's what made me think that whole time through treatment an when I was gettin out, I felt bad when I went backHistorical to the old lifestyle, cuz I felt I let em down, ya know, cuz they tried so hard with me, I mean they did everything for me ya know they let me get away withYouth some stuff too that I probably shouldn't a got away with, but ahhh ya know, they weren't they weren't into jus jus hard core disciplining me, cuz they knew that .ya know, they seen that that wasn't me ya know, maybe, ya know if they give me a chance that I could, ya know I did somethin wrong, but I accept it ya know. They'd let me they'd give me the chance to accept that an deal with it though, I'd have to deal withMinnesota it an that's hard for kids to do, is to deal with the past, ya know, ta deal with the things that they did wrong, cuz sometimes ta them, it's not wrong, ya know. An, to you it's wrong an to them it's not, an that's gotta be a mutual understanding that thatMinnesota you jus gotta accept that that that's their life an that's what they're use to. But, if you're really if you're sincere about it, ya know, they'll know that. Kids know that they're gonna feel that an that's gonna encourage them to do somethin, ta be somethin better maybe. That's what I think. 4l.22 KC: Sounds like you could do so much for kids.

1: I like kids. KC: Are you gonna have some of your own? 1: Yeah probably, some day. I don't really want to now, cuz I keep goin in an out, an that's not right .an I know that my kid would end up jus like me. An, I wouldn't want that to happen. That's I'm worried about my nephews, ya know, cuz I keep goin in and out, in and out, an they know, they're old enough now, they all know what's goin on. They know what jail is, I told em everything, I told em I was at work an they know I was at jail. KC: So, what are you going to do to change you, to keep you out? 42.01 1: I'm tryin to do this job stuff now this I guess that's the first step Projectthat's a big step for me, it a first step it's a big step too, cuz I don't like to work, man, but, I don't know I try it jus makes me feel good to do stufffor my nephews. We had a good Christmas last year. cuz I was working. That was great, ya know. Nephew: I see urn Brother: laugh Society KC: What a perfect place to stop, cause who's here Researchbut your nephew. 1: yup Brother: The wether is starting to pick up, it's snowing out there KC: Ohhhh, OK, I better be on the road. 42.36 Gang Historical Youth

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