T Meet' Euro6 Emissions Targets | Auto Express

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Exclusive: Car makers 'can't meet' Euro6 emissions targets

Consumer news News Exclusive: Car makers 'can't meet' Euro6 emissions targets

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With the VW Group emissions scandal in full swing, car makers ask EU regulators to lower NOx emissions targets for new cars

The car industry has admitted that makers can’t meet 2020 diesel pollution targets and want to almost double Euro 6 10 Coolest Cars 10 Stars from limits under new tests, Auto Express understands. Under $25,000 Commercials - Kelley Blue Book Who Are They… More like this Its been revealed by an EU insider that the European Answers Automobile Manufacturers Association (ACEA) is asking for a by Taboola NEWS “conformity factor” of 1.7, whereby cars would be given Euro 6 status for emitting 0.136g/km of nitrogen oxides (NOx) from 2020. Most read Policymakers are planning a zero-tolerance approach on the 0.080g/km Euro 6 limit from 2020, but have agreed a two- 1. FEATURES English councils make phase implementation with softer regulations in place for Best new cars record parking profits 2017 to 2020. for 2016

NEWS • VW emissions scandal: everything you need to know NEWS • VW emissions scandal: everything you need to know FEATURES 2. Vauxhall Astra However, the insider said the ACEA wants to push this Special further and is asking for compliance for cars emitting 2.75 times the Euro 6 limits during the first three-year period. That’s equal to 0.220g/km – a figure that wouldn’t even 3. FEATURES VW emissions scandal: meet Euro 5 legislation. Best new car all owners to receive deals 2015/2016 compensation Our source also revealed the ACEA feels the battles currently facing VW are a US conspiracy against European PRODUCT REVIEWS NEWS diesels. Its demands came at a behind-closed-doors 4. Cheap Christmas meeting on 1 October ahead of the Real-World Driving Emissions (RDE) tests, which will be officially introduced on 1 car gifts under January 2016 – although only for monitoring purposes in year £50 one. From 2017, RDE will be used for Euro 6 compliance tests on new type approval vehicles and in 2018, all new NEWS cars sold in the EU must pass RDE tests. 5. Mercedes E- All new cars to be zero Class 2016: full emissions vehicles by • How to test cars for real-world mpg and emissions 2050 details and latest images NEWS Julia Poliscanova, clean vehicles officer for Transport & Environment – a campaign group involved in the technical Euro 6 discussions – said progress on deciding the finer workings had been slow.

She told us: “It’s simply unacceptable that instead of concentrating on fitting the right technology and meeting UK car journey data the standard on the road, the industry is still busy stored for two years, but weakening the law so it can concentrate on manipulating the is it legal? tests instead.”

Ads • Best low emissions green cars on sale now Kid Rock's An ACEA spokeswoman defended its position, adding: “In Home Is Not At order to say what would be the right conformity factor, you need the full RDE package. The industry is not in a position All What You'd to confirm what it should be.” Expect Get Auto Express updates What do you think of the car makers asking for (Lonny) more flexibility on Euro6 standards? Let us know in the comments section below...

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Andrew • 2 months ago Exclusive: Our source tells us that AE is desperately trying to spread the blame even though a single manufacturer has been caught cheating. 7 • Reply • Share ›

Mike • 2 months ago which car makers are we talking about, surely not all of them ? Germans ? This story pops just in time to deflect VWs current issues ? 6 • Reply • Share ›

Parget er > Mike • 2 months ago Volkswagen. The Lance Armstrong of the automotive world.

They'll just have to build petrol hybrids and pure electric then. Fine by me. 4 • Reply • Share ›

veryveryoldfella > Pargeter • 2 months ago Pure electric... power generation itself is a cause of pollution, just imagine how much we would need if we all changed over enmasse. power generating grid cope with the demand? There are no easy answers to this problem, glib comments don't help. BTW I run a 1.4 petrol so have no axe to grind as such. 1 • Reply • Share ›

Janner > veryveryoldfella • 2 months ago UK Power gen is 44% NOx and particulates free (Renewables and nuclear), and 30% gas, which is substantially particulates free with much, much lower NOx than and internal combustion engine. remaining 26% isn't so clean but is being replaced in the near term.

Typical driver would use about 2,500 kWHrs of electricity per annum 25 million 'average UK cars' or 62.5 TWHrs against a UK year of 336 TWHrs so an 18% increase in electricity production.

The answers are here now and over the next few years - hybrids, range-extenders and all-electrics; prices are coming down and range going up. A rapid take up of electric cars would take around 15 years for most new cars to be electric and a further 20 years for very few ICE cars to be left on the road. electricity generation to be increased and a charging infrastructure to be improved.

Electric cars are fun, fast and really cheap to run.

1 • Reply • Share › veryveryoldfella > Janner • 2 months ago I agree they are fast, fun and cheap to run, I test drove a Tesla Model S. Price, and a long waiting list seems to me to be the only reasons to cause hesitation after driving one. I think you may well be right about the future, I hope I am around to see it. • Reply • Share › pazuzu001 > veryveryoldfella • At the moment, the biggest limit (in my opinion) is the infrastructure. If one drives no more than 200-250 miles/day, overnight recharging at home is fine. Regular long(er) range journeys are very dependent on where the charging points are and how many networks one subscribes to. • Reply • Share › soldierboy001 > pazuzu001 • 2 months ago Ah yes the infrastructure, OK if you have a drive, but what about all those flats, terraced onto the street with 2/3 cars per household etc.? • Reply • Share › pazuzu001 > soldierboy001 • 2 months ago That's still infrastructure - though it's a different issue with it that you raise. • Reply • Share › soldierboy001 > pazuzu001 • 2 months ago I am talking about charge point infrastructure not housing infrastructure. The last place I lived due to the way that the estate was designed unless you had a garage allocated you had to park where ever there was an available space, 2 and 3 car families faired even worse. • Reply • Share › pazuzu001 > soldierboy001 • 2 months ago Yes, I agree. Charge points are charge points and are infrastructure - no matter whether they are located "next to your house" (and dedicated to it) or out in the sticks and fully shared (the way Tesla tends to do, precisely to discourage use from people who are not on long drives!). • Reply • Share › veryveryoldfella > pazuzu001 • Tesla' supercharger network is their answer to range anxiety, but your concern is a valid point for anyone else not able/willing to spend £50K plus. • Reply • Share › pazuzu001 > veryveryoldfella • The supercharger network is severely limited e.g. in Southern Europe, and if electrics take off is going to be painfully insufficient... • Reply • Share ›

T DIPower > veryveryoldfella • 2 months ago If we stopped refining petrol and diesel there would be no shortage of electricity. Refineries use an enormous amount of electricity.

So you got a refinery consuming enough electricity to drive electric cars billions of miles at about 85% efficiency but instead it's wasted in inefficient internal combustion engines that are at best 20-30 % efficient.

The anti Ev brigade don't want to know about that though do they ? • Reply • Share ›

G.Power > Pargeter • 2 months ago Agreed, if diesels or even petrol won't cut it then it is time to move on. • Reply • Share ›

Scot t Burge > Mike • 2 months ago Peugeot and Mercedes actually asked for stricter emission regulations, so I feel as if I'm in the same boat as you. Not entirely sure who AE actually asked. 1 • Reply • Share ›

LeeMint s > Scott Burge • 2 months ago Is that true Scott? Are we to assume then, that PSA & MB are optimistic about reaching Euro6 targets? If so, bravo to both manufacturers! • Reply • Share ›

James • 2 months ago Get the stinking diesels off the road, they are also very noisy from outside adding greatly to noise pollution. 5 • Reply • Share ›

T ancred > James • 2 months ago You could say the same about some people! nonsense. Diesel cars that meet Euro 6 standards are the cleanest diesel engines ever produced and infinitely cleaner than the black smoke pots of the 1980s. Hybrids are simply impractical for most people and also very expensive. 4 • Reply • Share ›

Milan Nemec > Tancred • 2 months ago Euro 6 can be fulfilled in real-world conditions only with AdBlue, of course, you need PDF filter as well, otherwise you will not pass even Euro 5. There is also other stuff needed, making the diesel cars very expensive = less buyers. Hybrid cars are cheaper as diesel - you do not have to go for plug-in, a simple and cheap MILD hybrid would be enough to start with and can be followed by a full hybrid later. Electric cars are nonsese = we make electricity from coal and atom = not very environmental... 2 • Reply • Share ›

Michael Simpkins > Milan Nemec Nuclear Power stations although dangerous are the alternative to the coal and oil powered stations. Besides Oil won't last forever so we have to find alternatives. Plus governments will demand change and this is where your argument ends 1 • Reply • Share ›

disqus_zzz > Michael Simpkins • Nuclear Power stations are safer than fossil fuel fired power stations.

The fossil fuel industry is responsible for more deaths via mining accidents (including oil rig helicopter crashes and explosion - over 1000 coal miners die each year in china + about 500 in Europe), air pollution (causes/contributes to about 7 million deaths globally a year + about 28,000 year in the UK) and accidental explosions i.e natural gas leaks/ carbon monoxide poisoning and oil refineries every single year than nuclear power ever has in its 60 years history. see more

• Reply • Share ›

Milan Nemec > Michael Simpkins e.g. Germany leaves Nuclear Power by 2018, Spreading these stations is a very sensitive issue which causes public protests, loss of preferences for politicians, etc.

e.g.Sergio asked publicly not to buy their electric Fiat 500, as they make 10 000 USD loss per vehicle..

In a democracy, you cannot force a private company to sell a product where it makes loss with every sold unit, e.g. Electric vehicles for the next 10 years. Or are we in communism or a dictatorship?

The reason why everyone leaves Tesla alone is simple - you can not make profit now selling Electric vehicles. Believe it or not, the next 15-20 years will be dominated by ICE improved in efficiency and using hybrid technology, maybe natural gas, but ICE are not going away anytime soon... see more

• Reply • Share ›

disqus_zzz > Milan Nemec • 2 months ago I agree Euro 6 can be fulfilled in real-world with AdBlue.

Nuclear power is the safest, cleanest way to generate electricity on the scheme of things.

Then Electric cars even if powered by a Coal fired electricity grid are more efficient than ICE and they don't dump air pollution for the most part at the centre of densely populated area. In addition it easier to fit pollution controls to 100s of power compare to 34 million motor vehicle.

Also you need to include the energy need to refine and transport refined fuels to make a fair comparison. • Reply • Share ›

Janner > Milan Nemec • 2 months ago We make electricity from renewables and nuclear (44%) and gas (30%) - coal stations are rapidly being retired.

Very environmentally sound. • Reply • Share ›

Roger • 2 months ago AutoExpress tries to change subject from VW diesel cheat to other manufacturers. They only have: "others must do the same"-boring defence.

Hello AE! How has, your main sponsor, VW guided you to talk about this matter? 6 • Reply • Share ›

Fadyady • 2 months ago This situation has arisen only because of the European car makers over dependence on the diesel technology. Diesel is a much dirtier fuel and even with all the gimmicks that fool the tests can not be clean enough for urban use. Just because diesel gives more miles per gallon and thus emits less carbon does not make it clean when you take into consideration other toxins which is why Volkswagen tried to game the EPA - after all they've been getting away with these corrupt practices condoned by the European authorities. Now that the VW-Audi have been caught pants down they're trying to present this as a US conspiracy against European diesel technology. They've already managed the support of the European authorities like ACEA and the SMMT. Give it time and the German government - who'd been conniving with the VW Group's corrupt practices being well aware of them all along - will join the chorus. 2 • Reply • Share › javier • 2 months ago make the cars compliant and if people dont buy the diesels they dont buy them and the market decides 1 • Reply • Share ›

Michael Simpkins • 2 months ago Petrol and Diesel cars can't be improved even if you keep shedding weight and make engines smaller to match the figures the EU require. Which is why the fuel cell and Electric will take over. 1 • Reply • Share ›

Andrew > Michael Simpkins • 2 months ago Until we realize that we need to burn carbon to produce hydrogen. It's slightly better with electricity, but we still don't like those wind turbines, do we? Oh, and then we have the nasty batteries to deal with.... 2 • Reply • Share ›

Michael Simpkins > Andrew • 2 months ago Still cleaner then Petrol and Diesel 1 • Reply • Share ›

Milan Nemec > Michael Simpkins Petrol can be improved, there still is a lot of room for development = lower real consumption/emmisions. The norms have to be changed towards real world consumption plus higher limits, you cannot regulate scientific inventions from Brussel... Do not be fooled by hydrogen or electricity, they are at least 15 years away as a mass market product and do not solve anything NOW... 2 • Reply • Share ›

Michael Simpkins > Milan Nemec Petrol will never improve as it still emits regardless of what you do. Tesla in 2 years time will launch the Model III. Fuel Cell cars are launching this year in the UK. Just face it the ICE is old news and will RIP • Reply • Share ›

Milan Nemec > Michael Simpkins That is a very short-sighted opinion. How many millions sold electric/hydrogen cars do you expect by 2020? Average petrol ICE has an efficiency of cca. 30 percent. Toyota hybrid ICE has 40, mazda Skyactiv II 2018 will have 48, the potential of ICE with full hybrid = no plug-in percent while car price remains fine and infrastructure is there. Electricity = coal factories, let us face it, petrol is better than coal, as long as we do not have clear electricity, the whole Electric mania is just a mania...

1 • Reply • Share › Janner > Milan Nemec • 2 months ago Fossil fuel car 1mile/kWhr (9.7kWHrs per litre) Electric cars 4.5 miles kWHr much more efficient and clean at the point of use. UK has less than 30% coal and no oil powergen and coal is being phased out. Petrol is not better than renewables, nuclear and gas! • Reply • Share ›

Janner > Andrew • 2 months ago Wind turbines are much better than fossil fuel stations.

Battery materials are recyclable and already much cleaner than oil extraction. • Reply • Share ›

T DIPower • 2 months ago Electric is the only solution, the technology is there but the cost is the deliberate obstacle to keep us in the past so manufacturers can still make billions from out dated technology.

I love my Nissan Leaf and electric drive is miles better than any ICE. Sure there are obvious limitations such as the 70 odd miles range, this however is going up to 90-110 miles with the 30 kwh battery option for 2016.

2018 will see the introduction of the 150-250 mile range affordable EV, who needs Diesel then ?

I've driven almost 13,000 miles in the Nissan Leaf since the 20th of January with a 10 min fast charge when I come off shift to get me 85 miles which gets me home with 20- 25% left. Now I have work charging.

I get into a fully warm car with heated seats and steering, defogged and defrosted windscreen.

I don't need, want or will drive diesel again as my main car.

1 • Reply • Share ›

Ed McA • 2 months ago Correct me if I'm wrong but surely manufacturers as Mazda have met these Euro 6 standards! • Reply • Share › derek • 2 months ago Modern emmisions are to strict and is making cars more complex, more expensive and more unreliable. No matter how clean an engine can run, if the engine runs poor it will be more dirty than a less efficient engine running well. Modern engine put all that nasty soot back into then engine to pull emmissions down but clogs the manifold up choking the engine, dpf filters clog up and need to regenerate using excess fuel and meaning you have to carry on driving which if your just getting home isnt great. • Reply • Share ›

Garais87 • 2 months ago So VW EU6 are ok and the guilty one was made VW EU5, but the truth is that other manufacture cant meet EU6 :D COOL :D other night I watched BBC and they were testing real life emission Passat EU5 against Focus EU6 and the Passat was 4 times over the EU5 regulations and Focus was 7 times over the EU6 regulations :D Ford = American??? :D • Reply • Share ›

Simon • 2 months ago I have a new diesel at the moment, but to be honest, I will probably return to petrol next time round. I dont do a lot of miles, and diesel engines do seem to be getting more complicated and presumably more expensive to fix if they go wrong. In case you wonder why I got a diesel, it was simply personal choice. I fancied a change. • Reply • Share ›

T ancred > Simon • 2 months ago Diesels are still a very good bet if you want an economical car to run. They are complicated engines but also more reliable than ever before. I don't regret using diesel at all and I'm tired of having the tree huggers dictating what I should be driving. 1 • Reply • Share ›

icandest roy > Tancred • 2 months ago Tell that to the children in built up areas coughing and spluttering with asthma due to the awful pollutants (not carbon) that diesels put out. New Euro 6 engines are fine, ones below that should be taxed heavily in Cities. 2 • Reply • Share ›

disqus_zzz > icandestroy • 2 months ago Think we should wait for real world tests on NOx level of Euro 6 Diesels before we judge. • Reply • Share ›

Anon > disqus_zzz • 2 months ago Agreed, as consumers we now know we need "real world" test results to judge. Note VW say their EU6 engines "comply" but won't say they don't cheat to do so. 1 • Reply • Share ›

disqus_zzz > Tancred • 2 months ago Firstly its not the stereotypical car hating tree huggers who tend to only care about co2/ climate change and completely forget about local air pollution - they probably part of the people championing diesel car after VED was linked to CO2 completely ignorant to the NOx problem (ironically biodiesel is worse for NOx emissions).

The people who are complaining about this its the people who want to do something about the 9500+ people who deaths are linked to air pollution in London alone each year and the 100s thousands of people with respiratory illness due to air pollution. They also blame the government for coercing people into buying diesel cars in the name of the environment and question why we still have diesel buses/trains. Personally I want to know why LPG/CNG was not encouraged as an alternative fuel.

1 • Reply • Share ›

soldierboy001 > disqus_zzz • 2 months ago As a person who used to drive both LPG and CNG trucks I can tell you the range was the Problem as these gas powered vehicles used more litres of gas per 100 miles, plus they were not as idiot proof, freezing temps, to refuel as petro/diesel. OK for short journeys but like electric at the mo has limitations. • Reply • Share › 6 comments • 3 days ago Andy — Going to shock the world by releasing something that doesn't look like your grandmas front room? Mercedes-AMG S 65 Cabriolet to head S-Class range 1 comment • a day ago Def90cars — I genuinely think this was written be someone pack of Top Trumps cards. I do like the "the S 65 …

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