Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 17 OCTOBER 1876

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Suppl1f. [17 OCTOBER.] Pastoral Leases Bill. 963

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY. Tuesday, 17 October, 1876. Pastoral Leases Bili.-Navigation Bill.-Resnmptions from Runs in the Settled Districts.-Victoria Bridge Bill. PASTORAL LEASES BILL. Mr. BELL said he rose to move the ad­ journment of the House, with the view to make an appeal to the Government in regard to the principle contained in the Pastoral Leases Bill, which was passed through com­ mittee on the previous evening, with the hope that some time having elapsed since the second clause on the Bill was passed, honorable members opposite might have given sufficient time to the subject to have enabled them to reconsider the bearing of the result that would ensue from the division on that clause. He thought that, as there was only a thin House on the previous day, it was only right that they should consider the advisa­ bility of recommitting the Bill ; but, of course, if a majority of the House objected to such a course, the clause to which he had alluded must go, and they would have to abide by it. He must say that he looked upon the result of passing that clause with great alarm; for he knew what the effect of it would be, principally upon men holding runs at a great distance from the capital ; namely, that it would very much damage a 964 Pastoral Leases Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Pastoral Leases Bill. large number of men now engaged in a very that that Bill would ruin hundreds and hun­ useful pursuit in the colony. He was sure dreds, and the Government knew it, and in­ that the Government had no other desire than troduced it in the first place for that to pass a measure most suitable to the interests purpose ; but now they began· to see the of the colony, and he now asked them to misery and rapine that it would pro­ consent to a recommittal of the Bill, with the duce, and wished to have it recom­ view to reconsidering the second clause, mitted. He saw some honorable members before the Bill was read a third time. opposite laughing, but they knew that what The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS said he said was a fact. Let them fancy for one that, with regard to the remarks of the hon­ moment a thousand Crown tenants being orable member for Dalby, he could only say locked out of their holdings, to make way that the Bill was set down for its third read­ for what? Why, for a thousand other ing on the following day, If it was at . all tenants. Let them fancy for one moment considered an objection that the decision on the women and children who would be turned the previous day was arrived at in a thin out of their homes-homes where many of House, he had no objection to its being tested them had been born. Let them think of the in a full House, if the honorable member tens of thousands of stock that would have wishing for a recommittal of the Bill would to be removed from those holdings,-where promise that there should be a full House on were they to go ? Why, he contended that the following day. When the third reading nothing short of an enemy invading the was called on it would be perfectly com­ country and sweeping away all the inhabit­ petent for the honorable member to move for ants by force would equal the result if the its recommittal, and he would promise the Bill was passed in its present form. He had honorable member, so far as the Government no doubt that when the Government saw the was concerned, that there should be no fac­ tremendous responsibility they had devolved tious opposition on their part. upon themselves by passing such a measure, Mr. STEVENSON said he quite sympathised they would take every opportunity they with the honorable member for Dalby in could of evading that responsibility ; but he drawing attention to the matter-- should like to see that responsibility fixed, The SPEAKER : I must remind the honorable not only on the Government, but on their member that he is not in order in referring supporters. Bitter as the trial would be to a matter which is put down for considera­ through which the colony would have to pass tion on a future day. on the eviction of Crown tenants-bitter and Mr. W ALSH asked if he was to under­ severe as that would be-let the colony stand that when an adjournment was moved, endure it, if only for the advantage of show­ no discussion was allowed to take place on ing what iniquitous measures might be any matter under the sun ? if so, it was a new introduced and carried by the majority which proceeding altogether. He believed that the the Government at present commanded. honorable member for Clermont was just as The SPEA.KER said with regard to the point muchjustifiedinaddressing himselfto the ques­ of order raised by the honorable member for tion now under discussion, as either the hon­ the Warrego, that it was not competent, under orable member for Dalby, or the honorable cover of a question of adjournment, for a Minister for Lands had been. Before he sat member ao discuss the subject of any Order down, he might say that he sincerely trusted of the Day, for the consideration of which that the Government would not make fish of. the House 'had appointed another time. one and flesh of another; because when, on Mr. DE SATGE said that the honorable the previous day, he had asked the honorable member for the W arrego had said in effect Minister for Lands to consent to a recom­ that he would cut off his nose to spite his mittal of the Bill for another purpose than face. He thought, with regard to the oppo­ that now stated, the honorable gentleman re­ sition to the Government, the country had its fused to do so. He believed that it was at own say not only in that House but in the instigation of the Ministers themselves, another place, and he hoped for the sake of or if not of them, of one of their principal the country that a drag might be put on the supporters, that the appeal was now made. State coach in that respect. If the honorable He strongly protested against the Govern­ Minister for Lands intended to reconsider the ment, or any Government bringing in a Bill Bill on the following day, he would advise which, although it might be keeping faith the honorable gentleman to take the sugges­ with some of their supporters, would be the tion of the honorable member for the Ken­ means of doing irreparable injury to a large nedy, and endeavor to divide the northern and most valuable class of the community. from the southern districts, as by that means Let the Government stand the consequences the honorable member might benefit men in of such a measure ; and if the country would the northern districts considerably. sanction the existence of such a Government Mr. STEVENSON presumed that he might -a Government th11t would bring in such ad speak, as honorable members had done so, captandum Bills as the one referred to, he although he had been told, some little went with the Government so that the country time ago, that he was out of order. might reap its own reward, and the Gov·· It appeared to him that the mission of ernment might be fairly punished. He knew the present Government was, in their Navigation Bilt. [17 OcTOBER.] Resumptions from Runs, Eta. 965 opinion, to play into the hands of capitalists, because he wished to draw the attention of the and to oppress the squatters as much as pos­ House to some matters connected with it. sible. A great deal had been said about He believed that the motion would have to removing stock, but he thought that honor­ be amended on account of his having allowed able members opposite were n-ot aware of the a day to intervene. It was his intention on difficulties of that removal, as it would be the previous day to revive the Bill, as it very hard to find a place to remove stock to, was laid aside with the amendments in it, so the whole of the western district being at that it might go through during the present present taken up ; in fact, some squatters session; but he had since learned that as there were now over the border of the colony, was no connection between the Bill he wished having crossed the Herbert River into South to introduce and the one laid aside, owing to Australia. The question was one of the greatest the intervention-of a day, the proper course importance, and therefore he . hoped the would be for him tointrodncea Bill in commit­ Government woRld take into consideration tee. With that view, he would ask the House to the recommittal of the Bill. allow him to amend his motion by inserting Mr. IvoRY said he would advise the the following words after " That," Ministry to re-commit the Bill, although for " this Rouse will, at its next sitting, resolve his part he should not try to force the re-com­ itself into a Committee of the Whole, to consider mittal upon them ; they had accepted the the desireableness of introducing a Bill to conso­ responsibility of the Bill, and the consequences lidate and amend the laws relating to the Marine of course rested upon them. They had been Board, navigation, pilotage, harbors, lights, and repeatedly warned regarding the measure, the keeping and carriage of gunpowder." and all the facts connected with the passing o£ it had been placed before them, but they It was also his intention to move for the re­ had insisted, with a majority at their backs, introduction of the " Stamp Duties Bill" in on systematically not answering one of the the same way. Re might mention that the arguments raised by honorable members of position in which he was placed arose from the Opposition, but to do as they had done his ignorance of the fact that on the previous all through the present session, namely, sit day he might have done it, in accordance still and vote. At the second reading, hints with the practice of the Imperial Parliament, were thrown out that the Opposition were but that if a day lapsed, it was rendered neces­ going to make a great stand against the sary to re-introduce a Bill in a Committee of resumption of the ten years' leases, but the the Whole House. Opposition knew that it was of no earthly Mr. P.nxER said he did not see any neces­ use to adduce reasons against the Bill when sity for a discussion upon the point, as it was the Government had made up their minds laid down by the 56th Standing Order that that they and their supporters should remain "No question or amendment shall be proposed quiet and vote. If the Government were which is the same in substance as any question, prepared to take the responsibilities of such which, during the same session, has been resolved a measure, all he could say was, let them in the affirmative or negative." do so. He should like to know how the honorable Mr. BAILEY thought that when an appeal member intended to get rid of that Standing was made to the Government to do an act of Order. Had thehonorablemembergoneonwith grace, honorable members opposite should the Bill on the previous day, he might have got remember that the worst way of getting it over the difficulty under the practice of granted was to insult, if possible, every hon­ the Imperial Parliament, although he could orable member on the Government side of not have done so under their own Standing the House. lf those who felt deepest in re­ Orders. It was simply an example of sharp gard to the present question wished to ask practice on the part of the Government-an a favor from the House, the least they could attempt on their part to snap a judgment, as do would be to ask it without any insult to the lawyers would say. He did not believe those from whom they asked it. that either Bill could be introduced again Mr. J. ScoTT said, in regard to the remarks during the present session. of the honoroable member for Wide Bay, The SPEAKER said that, as the House did that the Opposition had not asked for any not consent to the amendment, the question favor; what they asked for was a matter of could not be put. justice to the colony, and not to individual members of the House. Question put and passed. RESUMPTIONS FROM RUNS IN THE SET'l.'LED DISTRICTS. NA. YIGATION BILL. The SEcRETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS moved, The CoLoNIAL TREASURER said that when pursuant to amended notice- the motion standing in his name was called That in order to encourage the settlement on, that he move for leave to bring in a Bill of population in the Settled Districts of the to consolidate and amend the laws relating to colony, and in pursuance of section 10 of " The the Marine Boa.rd, navigation, pilotage, har­ Crown Lands Alienation Act qf 1868," this Rouse bor lights, and the keeping and carriage of resolves to resume from the leases of the under· gunpowder, he had called out " Not formal," mentioned Runs the areas hereinafter. specified, 966 Resumptions from Runs [ASSEMBLY.] in the Settled Districts. as described in the Schedule laid on the Table o£ and Nindooimba., from 20,000 to 19,000 ; but this Rouse o£ the lands proposed to be resumed he believed t.he best way to effect those mat­ from the Runs iu the said districts. ters of detail would be that after the reso­ He said that as the list of runs had been de­ lution had been discussed, one of his honor­ scribed more at length in the schedules which able colleagues should move the necessary had been laid on the table of the House, he amendments. did not think it was necessary for him to read Mr. DE SATGE said the honorable gentleman it through, as it would have to be read when had not made it at all clear what the amend­ the question was put. It was not his inten­ ments referred to were to be ; he had merely tion to make any lengthened remarks on the mentioned that some runs would have to be subject, as it was so intimately connected deducted from the whole number because with the various Land Bills which had re­ they contained blocks of less than eight cently been before the House, and was merely square miles. He should like the honorable a matter of detail connected with the Land member to say what reductions he meant. Bill and the Bill which had been passed through He thought that the honorable gentleman, committee on the previous day. The areas in moving the resumptions, should have which it was proposed to resume, with some de­ stated to the House whether they included ductions which the House might think fit to the whole of the unreserved portions of the make, as they were blocks containing less than runs, or if they did not, what proportions eight square miles, amounted in the whole to were left ; he believed it was the opinion of 2,761,502 acres; and the estimated acreage honorable members that the areas comprised in each district was-In the Moretons, the whole of the unresumed portions of the 918,684 acres ; in the Darling Downs, 971,869 runs. acres ; and in the Wide Bay and Burnett, The SEcRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS: Yes. 870,949 acres. They represented the area at Mr. DE S.A.TGE would ask, then, why leave present included in the Settled Districts the small areas under eight square miles? under the ten years' leases Bill; and the Bill The honorable member had not made that which had been passed through committee clear, but he said that in some areas there 'l"llS on the previous evening provided for the a certain amount taken off, and that in tenure of the country resumed at the Coochin Coochin the amount was reduced expiry of the leases. 1'he area of land fit from 23,000 acres to 22,000 acres, and in Nin. for agricultural settlement, compared with dooimba there was to be another. He might the actual amount to be resumed, was not also ask why the resumptions were tabulated very considerable, but it included, no doubt, in some instances as so many acres, and in a large portion of country very available for others as so many square miles-why the re­ occupation and settlement, and those resump­ duction of square miles into aeres had not tions must be taken in connection with the been followed out in all instances? He thought Land Bill which had passed through that that in a schedule of such importance the House. The object of that legislation had ~rea in all instances should have been given been, that whilst the quantity of land in the m acres. areas was somewhat smaller than formerly, The SEcRETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS said, in the number of areas thrown open would be explanation, that clause 10 of the Crown very much increased; and although remarks Lands Alienation Act of 1868 ran thus :- had been made that the description of tenancy "No land within the part so leased to any required was not what might be called liberal, pastoral tenants shall be resumable during the he trusted that in practice it would be found term o£ the lease except by a resolution o£ both to be the reverse. He trusted that it would Rouses o£ Parliament when it shall be lawful for promote actual settlement, and that although the Governor in Council to resume any tracts o£ it diminished the quantity of land to be land not less than eight square miles in area in taken up by an individual, it would conserve one block and in respect of such land so resumed the public estate for the future profit of the to make a proportionate reduction o£ the yearly people of the colony. Before he sat down rents paid by such pastoral tenants." he might say that there were a few amend­ Mr. DE SATGE said the honorable gentle­ ments, the mode of putting which he should man had not explained why, in the case of the consult the House upon. There were some Coochin Run, the block had been reduced to runs, such as Coochin Coochin, Westbrook, eight square miles. Eton Vale, and others, in which the area was The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS : less than eight square miles ; and according Because it consists of more than one block. to the Land Act of 1868, blocks of less than M:r. BELL said he regretted the honorable eight square miles could not be resumed, and Minister for Lands had not taken the same although the acreage of them taken together view of the larger areas on the different runs would permit of them being resumed, still it contained in the schedule as he had of the was thought that in accordance with the Act smaller areas comprised in some of the blocks, of 1868 they should not be resumed, but be and so let the whole of the runs revert to the allowed to fall into the hands of the Crown Crown by the effiuxion of time under the Act by effiuxion of time. According to that the of 1868. If the Government had done that, area of Coochin Coochin would have to be they would have meted out that share of ;reduced from 23,000 acres to 22,100 acres, justice which was the only quantum which l'lesumptions from Runs (17 OCTOBER.) in the Settled :Districts. 967 the lessees of those runs could fairly expect. Lands had his schedule correct now, as he He believed that the Government had failed perceived it was very different from the one to show why those lands should be taken which appeared in the journals of the House away from the lessees before the expiration -for what on the 5th :::eptember appeared as of their leases. There had been no immediate miles now appeared as acres. necessity shown for the action now taken The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, with regard by the Government, and the only hope he to the remarks of the honorable member for could see for the Crown lessees was, that Dalby on the question of compensation for there might be some time given to them, improvements on runs resumed, he could only and that that time might be sufficiently repeat what he had said on the previous even­ long to run eventually to the end of ing-that the lessees would be entitled to their leases before the land was put up compensation, even if the Land Bill now under for sale or thrown open to selection, as the consideration in another place became law. Government of the day might decide. He The rights of all parties holding runs were had some sympathy with those Crown lessees especially reserved, and he could assure the who lived within the range of the schedule honorable member for Dalby there was no of runs to be resumed, and he did not hesitate doubt about their position. The Postmaster• to say that he had some hope that the General, in the other chamber, endeavored Government would not rush too quickly into to remove all possible doubt, and had done the resumption of those runs, as he had under­ so; and neither of the Bills now before Parlia­ stood the honorable Minister for Lands to ment would in any way affect the owners of say that it was the intention of the Govern­ runs upon the resumptions. That was his ment to allow full time before the lands were opinion, not given now, however, for the resumed from the Crown lessees. He had first time, for he had given it when the not much to say on the present question; question of compensation for resumptions but he wished to enter another protest against arose last session. His honorable colleague, what he considered another breach of faith the Minister for Lands, had pointed out some towards the pastoral lessees in reference to im­ inaccuracies in the list in consequence of provements. Honorable members were aware some of the lands proposed to be resumed that under the Homestead Act of 1872, com­ being in blocks of less than eight square pensation for improvements was allowed to miles. It was somewhat doubtful whether Crown lessees; but under the Bill recently the Act was open to the construction that had passed by the House, there was no provision been put upon it; but in matters of this kind made for any such compensation, as the Home­ stead Areas Act was rP.pealed by that Bill, and it was better to err on the safe side, and on with it the provision fo"i' compensation for the side of mercy, rather than hard justice ; improvements. Under the proposed resump­ and it would, therefore, be advisable to make tions, he assumed in strict justice that the some verbal amendments. The first was Crown lessees would be as much entitled to with regard to Tandary Run, and he would compensation for improvements as they would propose that after the word "Tandary," be under the Homestead Areas Act of 1872. If the words " or Tarromeo Run" be inserted. under that Act they were to be compensated, Mr. BELL said he should like, with the and that Act was to be repealed by the Bill permissicn of the House, to say a word or just passed, he thought compensation ought to two with reference to what the Attorney­ have been provided for insomeotherway which General had said. That honorable gentle­ he had failed to discover. The subject had man scarcely appeared to understand the posi­ been alluded to, he believed, in another place, tion he desired to convey. Under the Act of and the honorable Postmaster-General had 1868, there was no compensation allowed for then pointed out that as the Crown Lands improvements to those men who had pre­ Act of 1868 and the Homestead Areas Act of empted to the extent of 2,500 acres; under the 1872 were repealed by the Bill just passed by Homestead Areas Act of 1872, compensation the Assembly, consequently compensation was allowed. The Darling Downs District for improvements would naturally follow with had been made a homestead area of, and he the repeals. Although no reference had been presumed the people there were entitled to made to that in reference to the resumptions, as much under the present Homestead Areas it appeared to him that either the honorable Act-for it amounted to that-as under the the Postmaster-General was in error, or those previous Homestead Areas Act. The same honorable members who had been led by that principle should apply to the latter as to the honorable gentleman had misunderstood him. former. If that was to be the case, he pre­ It seemed to him (Mr. Bell) that both of the sumed that the Crown lessees under these Acts he had mentioned having been repealed, resumptions, though not under the Home­ there was no hope of compensation for the stead Areas Act, would have a fair claim for Crown lessees; but he should be glad to hear compensation. He gathered from the words the opinion of the honorable Attorney-Gene­ of the Postmaster-General that he did not ral on the point, as there appeared to be take the same legal view as the Attorney­ some doubt on it. General. If this was so, the Crown lessees Mr. THOMPSON said he merely rose to ex­ on the Darling Downs were not entitled to press a hope that the honorable Minister for compensation for improvements. This, he 968 Resumptions from Runs [ASSEMBLY.] i1t the Settled 1Jistriats. felt sure, could not have been the intention Minister for Lands that if he allowed the of the Government. resolutions to pass without discussion, and The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the Act of without having the matter fully investigated, 1872 was an amendment of the Act of 1868, it would be a disgrace to the Ministry of and the provision in the 14th section applied which he was a member. He could see no to all lands resumed from runs. There was reason for this hasty legislation and the re­ no· mistaking the meaning of the section. It pudiation of all these immense runs. It did said- · not affect him (Mr. Haly) in the least. ·He " When lands under lease for pastoral purposes had not got a single acre in any of the re­ are resumed from runs the lessee shall be entitled sumptions, but he knew from experience to the value of the improvements effected by him that when men had gone to a con­ on the land so resumed such value to be agreed siderable expense, perhaps thousands and upon by the Crown lands commissioner of the thousands of pounds, fencing in their district and such lessee and in the case of their runs in the full belief that there was some failing so to agree the same to be decided by honor in the colony, and that they would arbitration as provided by ' Tke Crown Lands be allowed to go to the full extent of their AliBnation Act of 1868.' " ten years, when they actually gave up half In regard to improvements, therefore, effected of their runs, and paid the full amount of before the division of the run, if the rent as if it had been for the whole, it was lessee had made any pre-emption at all in very bad when they were now forced to the respect of any part of those improvements, he conclusion that the colony was so devoid of "'as not entitled to any compensation now ; honor and justice as to openly repudiate the but with respect to imnrovements after the ten years' leases. This was not a question of division of the run, he 'was entitled to com­ squatting, but a simple question of justice ; pensation from time to time, as the improve­ and when he heard the honorable member ments were resumed. for Dalby merely content himself with Mr. BELL: Under what law? making a protest, he thought it was time for The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: It is the Home­ him to get up, although he was quite unpre­ stead Areas Act, the latter part of the 14th pared to enter into so great and important section of which says- a subject. He should like to hear both sides " Provided always that where any lessee of a of the question discussed a good deal more ; run in the Settled Districts shall take or shall to hear how the new legislation would bear have taken aLivantage of the power of pre·emp· on the colony generally; and how people were tion given in lieu of compensation by section 14 to get grass and water when these thousands of ' Tke C1·own Lands Alienation Act of 1868 ' and thousands of sheep and cattle would have he shall not be entitled to the value of his im • to be removed. Unfortunately, under that provements under this section unless the said Bill, which he regretted to know was passed improvements have been erected since the divi· last night, things would be made worse. sion of the run under the said Act.'' What necessity was there for this repudi­ Mr. BELL: That 1s quite satisfactory, but ation? The Government were going to take what provision is made for those lessees who these lands from the men who had improved come under these resumptions ? them, and to put them up to auction. This The ATTORNEY-GENERAL : If these re­ meant that the Government intended to sumptions are carried, the lands will be squeeze as much more out of Lhe unfortunate resumed from lease, and this section applies men, and perhaps ruin them. When the to the lessees and gives them the privilege I Government were so devoid of honor, and have stated. The same power which takes so unfair as to do such a thing, he could not away gives a corresponding advantage. help saying, as an honest man, that they Mr. BELL : But this is under the Act of would be quite capable of sending a man to 1868. run up the bidding to the last penny. If The ATTORNEY-GENERAL : The Act of they would do one thing, they would do 1872 is to be read with the Act of 1868, another. He advised the Government to of which, in many cases, it is but an amend­ consider seriously before they went any ment. farther. The leases had only two short years Mr. HALY would like to know whether it to run ; and if the Government would pro­ was possible that an Act of this kind was to mise that the land should not be put up to be allowed to pass without any further dis­ auction until the full time had expired, he cussion. If the Act passed the House, it would vote with them, because he did not would be a disgrace to every member of the expect the lands to remain a week after the chamber, no matter on which side he sat. A lease had actually expired. Put them up to greater piece of repudiation, confiscation, and auction, then, by all means ; but until the suicidal policy was never committed in any two years had expired, he would be the last colony or country in the world. The At­ man to vote for such a course. There was torney-General, who was smiling at his words, one particular matter to which he wished to had no more idea of the misery the Act call the attention of the Government. By would create to individuals, and the mischief the action they were now taking, the colony it would do to the colony, than he (Mr. Haly) would lose hundreds, and thousands, and tens had of a point of law. He could assure the of thousands, of sheep. Already, instead of Resumptions from Runs [17 OcTolmtt.J in tfte Settled Districts. 969

14,000,000 there were only 7,000,000; disease even the skeleton of a Land Bill was brought was spreading amongsb cattle as well as forward, and that was, he believed, one of sheep, and all this was the result of bad the reasons why many members on his side legislation ; and here the House was asked to of the House voted against them. He pass worse legislation than ever. It was thoroughly agreed with the course now taken nothing less than repudiation and confisca­ by the Minister for Lands. He regretted tion. He noticed that runs were being re­ that the resolutions had not been accompanied sumed from which Brisbane would some day by some proposal to compensate the lessees, have to get its water supply. He had long not for the actual improvements, but for ago predicted that Enoggera Creek for breach of faith in taking the leases from them supplying Brisbane with water would be a two years before the' time they expected failure, and he believed every medical man them to expire. There was a very good pre­ agreed with him thab it was not fit for the cedent. He did not expect the Government supply of' a large town, and that sooner or to give the lessees a money compensation, or later they must go somewhere else for pure even compensation in land, except in the way water. He was sorry that he had not in his of pro-emption. They had a good precedent, possession an article written in the Brisbane however, in 1868, when they only took half Courier some years ago on this subject by a the runs from them, and gave them the right professional man, showing that the water to pre-empt, under certain conditions, so much from Enoggera Creek was not fit for human land at a fixed price according to the classi­ beings to drink. If that creek was not healthy fication of the lands How much more, then, now, when we had had such a splendid could this be done now when they proposed season, what would it be when, as he had to take the whole of the runs at one fell seen it since he had been in the colony, two swoop? He was quite certain no lessee of years passed without rain falling in theWest any of these runs would have expected Moreton district. They would then have to any compensation in the event of the go to the Brisbane river, and the Govern­ leases running to the full time ; it was tho­ ment were now resuming the very land that roughly understood that they were then they would require, and would have to re­ gone. Had five or six thousand acres purchase it, to procure a proper water supply been taken out of each run, he did not for the capital of the colony. He believed think anything would have been expected, the Government had already been informed but he did consider it hard that, when they that there was no water in the locality so took in some cases as much as 150,000 acres wholesome as the Brisbane River water. In­ from one run at one swoop, there was not stead of retaining this land, which they would some compensation proposed for what he have to re-buy, the Government ought to let could not but call breachoffaith. These lessees it go to the end of the proper term, and he would no doubt have a right to compete for had no doubt that during the two years that leases with others, but that was not an ad­ would elapse, the question of pure water for vantage, or a very slight advantage indeed. Brisbane would be forced upon the House; He would have been glad to have seen these he only hoped it would not be forced by resolutions take a wider range. He would some severe epidemic. He was, however, have been glad to have seen some of the un­ certain that it would be forced upon them in settled districts brought in. They had suffered some way that Enoggera Creek was not fit in no way, and many of them derived quite to supply Brisbane with pure water, and that as much benefit from railways and public the Government would have to go to the works as the lands in the settled districts. A head of the Brisbane before many years. merely arbitrary line had been drawn, and he What the Government were now proposing knew many runs close to it which had was to take the land from the unforbunate never been touched at all. Some of these grazier, to put it up by auction, and to force might have been resumed, and by extending them to buy before the ben years were up. the area the operations of the law would have He hoped the Government, and members on fallen much lighter on individuals. He still both sides, would consider the question most thought lessees were entitled to compensa­ seriously, because it would be a dishonor to tion for the breach of faith which shortened Queensland if they resumed these runs before their leases by two years. the ten years were up. Mr. MoRG.A.N said he had no objection to Mr. GRAHAM said he also must disclaim lessees getting compensation for improve­ having any interest whatever in these resump­ ments, although he did not consider they had tions. He considered the Minister for Lands any perfect right; still, as a matter of common acted very wisely this year in first of all justice, the country could afford to give them bringing the three land measures before the something. He denied in toto, however, that House before the resumptions were brought there was any breach of faith with the lessees, on, thus giving the House and the country as the honorable member for the Darling some opportunity of knowing how they pro­ Downs had implied. The Land Act of 1868, posed to deal with this large and valuable among other provisions, laid down that by public estate under consideration. Last year the vote of both Houses the whole or part of a different course was adopted. The reso­ the leased lands of any of the runs should be lutions were put on the table first, and before resumed. Where, then, was there any breach 970 Resumptions from Runs [ASSEMBLY.] in the Settled Districts. of faith P He confessed he could not see it. open; but now he began to think the thing He believed the Government meant to deal was overdone, and that there might be too fairly, and not throw these runs open to much land thrown open. That would be a selection without considering the interests of great mistake indeed. There was, however, the present lessees, so that there should be so much meddling with this interest that it the least possible hardship falling upon would unsettle the whole colony, and in the them. present state of the colony they could not The CoLONIAL SECRETARY said he rose afford to meddle wantonly with this or any merely to put the honorable member for interest. Of course, the lands of the colony Leiehhardt right. The honorable member, could not be locked up from the settlers and in common with other honorable members, selectors, but he objected to the Government seemed to connect the second clause of the taking up the land for the mere purpose of Bill passed last night with the resolutions re-selling and re-leasing it. The horror­ now before the House. Those honorable able member for Darling Downs very members seemed to think that the resump­ properly remarked that there were some tions would come under the operation of the runs bordering on the settled districts that clause as to offering leases by auction. The required looking after. He, too, thought these Pperation of that clause was not intended to resumptions might be extended very far from 'apply to these resumptions, bul. only to runs the settled districts. The difference between that had expired by effiuxion of time, or that the settled and unsettled districts was after had become determined by forfeiture. It all only an imaginary line very often. There was an error, therefore, to suppose that these was, for example, the Kilkivan Run, and the were to be offered by auction at the present next run, which he believed was Baramba, time. The honorable member for Warwick and which was in the unsettled di~tricts, was had just shown that in the Act of 1868 there the finest run in the country ; and yet a stone was a proviso that any portion of these runs might be thrown from one to the other. He could be resumed ; and it was under that could not see why such runs as that should A.ct, and und!:'r the terms of the lease, that not be taken in, because they shared in the they were resumed now. They were wanted benefits that were derived from railways and for settlement, and the Government had a increased means of traffic. A.s they were right to resume them. revolutionising the whole of the lands of the Mr. McLEAN said he intended to vote for colony, they might at least enlarge the this resolution, because he knew that in the boundaries of the settled districts. · locality he had the honor to represent, there Mr. FRYAR said it was rather singular, was an urgent necessity for land being after the full discussion the Bill had thrown open for settlement. Not long ago, in committee last night, that one honorable to his knowledge, there was not a single acre member after another should rise and speak of good land to be had for settlement. on the assumption that these resumptions Mr. O'SuLLIVAN said he supposed he were to be offered at auction or re-lease. The should have to vote for these resumptions, fact was, the Bill showed very plainly that the but it looked to him as if they were all of a Government had no power to offer these piece with the rest. He thought the honorable lands to lease, for the second clause provided member for Warwick was mistaken. By the that lands might be so offered when they A.ct of 1868 these resumptions were not re­ expired, or when they were forfeited, but sumable except where there was a demand not otherwise. The position of the resump· for the laqd, and he had understood that tions would be this :-If they were resumed the lessees would always give way when there at the present time, and with the law as it at was a demand. 'Vhat he understood, how­ present stood, the lessee would have no ever, of these resumptions was, that they further claim or title to them ; but if the Bill were taken from the present holders to be passed through committee last night became leased again. In that case, surely, they law, then the present lessee had a title, as would be entitled to compensation, besides set forth in the 6th clause :- compensation for improvements. His own idea was, that this meddling with the leading " 6. Whenever the whole of the land comprised interests of the colony would unsettle it; in any existing lease of any run in the said the squatter interest was already so much 'Settled Disiricts' shall have been heretofore or shall be hereafter resumed from lease under the unsettled by the legislation of this session provisions of the tenth section of the said that he believed it would injure the whole ' Crown Lands Alienation Act of 1868 ' the colony; it would injure every shopkeeper following consequences shall ensue that is to and storekeeper. They could not afford to say- part with this interest at the present time. " (1.) The land comprised in the lease and so Of course, whenever there was land wanted resumed shall be subject to alienation for settlement it must be had, and he had under the provisions of the laws in been at issue with t':le leaseholders because force for the time being relating to the he was always under the impression that alienation of Crown lands and shall be there was not enough land open for the small liable to be withdrawn from the lease by farmers and men of that cla·ss to settle upon. such alienation or by reservation for any He wished, therefore, to see the lands thrown public purpose Resumptions from Runs [17 OCTOBER.] in the Settled Districts. 971

" {2.) All the provisions o£ the fourth section as they could hope to have at the present o£ this Act relating to the withdrawal time. If these resolutions passed without of land from the leases therein men· any change in the law, evils would arise in tioned shall extend and apply to the land the North where lands had been resumed, so resumed and the lessees thereof aud was now, so to speak, in nobody's hands, " (3.) Except as aforesaid the lease of the the present holders being continually annoyed run shall be deemed to be still subsisting by other people bringing mobs of cattle and unaffected by such resumption." through. This sub-section was introduced to The third 'sub-section of this clause seemed meet difficulties of that kind. It certainly conclusive. There was no power whatever did not take away any of the present rights to offer these lands for lease. vVith respect from the present holder, but gave them addi­ to the resumptions in the Burnett district, he tional rights which they would not otherwise might inform the honorable member who had possess. Under all the circumstances, he just spoken that the Baramba Run to which thought it necessary at the present time to he referred was actually withdrawn at the withdraw these lands from sale, and he hoped present time. Notice was given more than the resolution would pass. six months ago, and the schedules had been Mr. PALMER said the Minister for Lands laid on the tables of the two Houses for the had not shown the necessity for the resump­ appointed sixty days, and had not been ob­ tion of such quantities of land. He had jected to. This was the only way in which the never heard it pointed out, nor seen it shown, lands could be resumed in the unsettled dis­ that there was a demand for it. Before tricts, and to his knowledge several runs had putting these resolutions on the table, the been resumed in this way. They could not be honorable gentleman was bound to show the resumed by resolution of the two Houses, House conclusi1ely that there was a demand and a different process was required to be for such an enormous quan~ity of land as gono through with the settled and unsettled was proposed to be resumed. As far as he (Mr. districts, because they were under different Palmer) could see, the word "resumption" Acts. In passing the Act of 1868, honorable was falsely used; "confiscation" would be a members who were then in the House would far better term for it, and much nearer the no doubt remember that there was a truth. He confessed he was at a loss to elause introduced providing that the land understand the policy of' the Government. could be resumed during the ten years' They appeared to him to be exceedingly lease, and if that clause was intended to be liberal in one respect ; while they resumed put in force when necessary, there was no land in the style of a freebooter, utterly repudiation in asking to resume them at the reckless of the consequences to the party at present time. If it was not intended to be present holding the lands of the colony, put in force, it was very strange that one according to their Land Bill they proposed portion of the country and the House should be to retail it in the spirit of a petty shopkeeper. hoodwinked by a provision of that description That was their idea of liberality, and, so far being placed in the Bill. On the whole, from having a tendency to increase, it had a seeing that the lands had been held eight tendency to restrain population from settling years out of ten, and that it was considered on the land, and to hold the land down in necessary under that new system to make small portions. What had been done on the such a provision, the lessees had had a very Opposition side of the House to remedy this fair run. It was well known to honorable had been, after all, very little, and the Bill members that the system had increased still remained a monument of the liberality enormously; lands had been taken up that of the Great Liberal Party. It appeared to were never calculated upon; every year, him that so long as people called themselves although the lands had been well picked over liberal they might do what they liked : the and the best were taken up in the earlier most tyrannical acts would pass muster so years, showed a greater select.ion of lands. long as they gave themselves the name of a The selections last year were greater, both in Liberal Ministry. He maintained that it number and area, than they had been since had not been shown in any way why the passing of the Act in 1868. There were such enormous resumptions as this should over 2,700,000 acres it appeared, and it might take place, while they very well knew that be naturally supposed that, as the best half of the halve of runs resumed over a was to be resumed on the first settlement great part of the colony, not an acre had been and selection, the worst half or portion of it selected in many of them. Why, then, were still remained, and that a large proportion of they to unsettle the whole of the pastoral it would be country which, although avail­ interests in the settled districts by resump­ able in some sense for the pastoral tenants, tions of this kind P What was to be gained was hardly available for the uses of smaller by them P The House had never been shown settlers, who would, consequently, taking a yet. It had been argued by some member smaller quantity, need land of a better quality. who had addressed the House, that under the A great deal of this land would not be fit tor provisions of the 1868 Act, it was intended selection, and the Bill passed last night, to resume those lands before the falling in of giving power to the lessees to retain what the leases. He was in the House at the was not actually selected, was about as much time of the passing of the Act, and he could 972 Resumptions from Runs [ASSEM:BtY.] in the Settled Districts. state, without fear of truthful contradiction, being resumed ; and he was astonished at the that the idea then was that the lands would opinion which had been expressed by the be resumed if they were wanted for sale, and honorable member for Burke. If he re­ no one would object to that; but it had never collected rightly, when that honorable mem­ been shown to the House yet that they were ber occupied a seat in that House before, he wanted for sale, and that there was a demand was an advocate for free selection all over for land, except in certain small limited the colony. He then wished to assimilate localities. The Darling Downs had been the the land laws of this colony to those in force bane of the country in this way, and all legis­ in New South Wales, and he (the Premier) lation on the land question had been legis­ was somewhat astonished at that honorable lation for the Darling Downs. The Govern­ member stating that in some districts of the ment were now proposing to resume the land colony there was no demand for land. He before the end of the leases, and that was a could not understand how the honorable clear breach of faith. It was a breach of the member could have so changed his opinions; Act of 1868, no necessity having been shown and he had no doubt that some day or other for it. He did not intend to make a long they would see the whole of the lands thrown speech upon this subject, for it was evident that open for settlement as they were in New any opposition in the House to the resump­ South Wales. He had no hesitation in saying tions would be useless ; those resumptions -in fact, he could prove-that large numbers must go as they were proposed by the Gov­ of men had gone over the Border into New ernment; but he would, before they were South Wales in consequence of the greater passed, enter his protest against them as facilities offered for settlement there by the utterly unnecessary and utterly uncalled for. lands being thrown open, and there being If small resumptions had been taken up none open on the Darling Downs. That where they were wanted, more good would was well known to honorable members have been done by way of settlement than opposite. would be done by this enormous quantity Mr. DE SATGE said he had only one remark of land being open for selection where to make on the amendment, and that was in no necessity had been shown for it. reference to a matter which seemed to have The PREMIER said, with regard to the been lost sight of. They proposed now statement of the honorable member for Port to resume upwards of two million acres, Curtis respecting the demand for land, he and they forgot that the people of the coun­ could say there was a great demand for land try would have a further choice from eight for settlement in all those districts ; and he million acres on one reserve under the Rail­ might point out with respect to pastoral way Reserves Bill, and altogether the land lessees demanding compensation for the lands thrown open in those reserves would amount resumed, that some honorable members to perhaps twenty million acres. He would, opposite seemed to be of opinion that the ten therefore, ask the Government and the years' leases were indefea~ible ; but they were country whether they did not think that such nothing of the sort. They could 'be re­ an amount of land being thrown open in such sumed under the Act of 1868, and section a reckless manner, when it was not absolutely 14 of that Act gave the holders a pre­ required, would not only cause the eyes to be emptive right in consideration of their im­ picked out of it, but be certain to result in provements. The honorable member for its depreciation P With regard to the argu­ Dalby seemed to be under the impression ments of the honorable the Premier, if he that the pastoral lessees who held land only knew the amount of land that had been under the ten years' leases should get an taken up on some of the runs in the Wide additional sum as compensation for improve­ Bay and Burnett district, of which the hon· ments ; but the Act of 1868 clearly enacted orable member for Burnett could speak, he that they should have a pre-emptive right to would see how unnecessary some of these the extent of 2,560 acres in consideration of resumptions were. Take Widgee, for in­ improvements effected under the currency of stance ; there had been no land taken up their leases. In reference to the resumptions there at all in the resumptions already made, now proposed, he might state, that although except by the lessees, and if they could judge the land might be resumed, it did not neces­ by that run-if other runs were in the same sarily follow that the whole of that land position,itwasevidentthere was not the slight­ should be thrown open simultaneously by est necessity for these resumptions on the scale proclamation. It would be thrown open as proposed ; and if half the amount were re­ it was required for settlement. On the sumed in these districts-he did not refer to Darling Downs the whole of the lands the Darling Downs-and the other half were proposed to be resumed were required allowed to remain in the hands of the lessees for settlement ; the whole of the resump­ until expiration of the leases, it would fetch tions in East Moreton were also required far better prices; while on the other hand, for settlement; and he believed if the whole by throwing open these two million acres, of the lands in those districts were thrown and twenty, million acres under the Railway open at once, it would be all snapped Reserves Bill, that would depreciate the ll.P before a month. He was glad to see the whole of the lands of the colony. If they House was likely to agree to those lands had free selection all over the country, it Resumptions from Runs [17 OcToBER.] in the Settlerl IJiat1•ict8. 973 would be a measure of justice to some ex­ terised "as argument" was that he knew, tent, and he could quite understand the hon­ and could prove, and it was notorious, that an orable member for Burke advocating a mea­ enormous demand existed for laud. , Was sure of free selection in preference to this, that an argument ? It was the kind of which was picking out certain districts for argument they were subjected to whenever that spoliation throughout the colony, without houorable gentleman addressed the House. any regard to system in throwing open the He, last night, stated it was notorious that lands. He believed that the effect of throw­ the honorable member for Port Curtis had ing open these two million acres which were stated on the second reading of a Bill that now proposed to be thrown open, and the such and such was the case, and when that eighteen or twenty million acres more that honorable member turned up "Ha.nsard," he would be thrown open under the Railway found he never made a remark on the subject. Reserves Bill, would be to make too light of Those were the statements of the honorable the lands of the colony and their value. the Premier, and they were of a piece with They would part with them at a time when his usual arguments. Another of his argu­ the colony was not in a position to afford in­ ments was, that he was astonished at the vestment in land, when the money market honorable member for Burke having changed was depressed, and when there was a greater his opinions. Now, he thought if honorable reduction in the value of the staple product members paid any attention to the remarks of the colony than there had been for years. of the honorable the Premier, which he was They were, therefore, taking the very worst rather afraid they did not usually do, they time to throw open their lands-not for the w0uld bear him out in saying that the obser­ poor man, or for the gradual introduction of vations he had taken down forined a very labor and for settlement on the laud, but it fair resume of the arguments, so-called, of was one more measure to defeat the man of that honorable gentleman. He should not small capital, and to attract only the rich ma!l. vote against these resumptions himself, and Mr. IVORY said he was certain the honorable his opinions had been so often ex pressed on the Premier must have felt a thrill of satisfac­ the subject, that it was no use expressing tion pass through him when the last speaker them again. opened his remarks ; he meant with regard to The SEcRETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS said the compliment that honorable member paid he wished to say a few words on the amend­ to the remarks of the houorable tht> Premier ment, but before doing so, he would remark that by charaeterising them as arguments. That possibly the most convenient way of dealing was about the last thing he would characterise with this series of amendments was to go them as ; they were in the honorable gentle­ into committee upon them, and he should man's usual grandiloquent style, and he (Mr. like the advice of the House upon that. Ivory) had got a short resun.e of his speech, Ther<> were at least seven or eight amend­ taken down almost vm·batim, and if ments, and it would be very inconvenient they called them arguments, then they bad to make them in the House ; yet it would be very much worse taste than he gave them necessary to make them in that way, unless credit for. He started by saying-one of the honorable the Speaker could suggest a his cogent arguments was that the Opposi­ mode by which the convenience of the House tion were opposed to resumptious. Now, would be consulted. He hoped there might he (Mr. Ivory) was certain no member on be some expression of opinion on the subject, that side of the House ever stated anything and it would probably be more convenient to of the kind. They bad all admitted the move the Speaker out of the chair and take reverse; they had all admitted that resump­ them in committee. He thought he was tions were required, and they were perfectly bound to say something in reference to the willing to give them ; they were perfectly remarks which had fallen from the honorable prepared to agree to anything in fairness ; member for Port Curtis. That honorable but until some arguments were brought gentleman affirmed that he (the Secretary for forward to show why such large resumptions Lands) had not advanced sufficient reasons as should take place, they said the Government justification for those resumptions; and he were not acting in the way they ought to do. must confess he had considered that, as those Another of the honorable the Premier's resumptions had been so long under the remarks was, that although they were resum­ notice of honorable gentlemen, they must ing the land, it did not necessarily follow necessarily have been taken in connection that they were going to make use of it. It' with the whole argument on the land they were not going to make use of it, why question, which had been so fully discussed; ask for these resumptions-why disturb the and it was hardly necessary for him to re­ present tenants at all? Tht>re was not the open that discussion. He was very much slighest doubt there were numerous runs surprised to hear the honorable gentleman comprised in thi~ schedule upon which not a speak in the terms he had chosen to adopt with single selection had yet been made on the regard to the proposal of the Government previously resumed half, and in that case now under uonsideration. He understood what was the use of disturbing the tenure of him to say it was a wholesale system of con­ the other half? Another statement of the fiscation, or spoliation, or something of the honorable the Premier which was charac- kind. 974 Res~tmptions from R~tns [ASSEMBLY.] in tke Settled IJist1·iats.

Mr. PALMER: Hear, hear. in those railway reserves, but those reserves The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS said : had not yet been adopted ; they had not yet Then the honorable gentleman went on to received the final ultimatum of the House, but assert that thew hole policy of the Government, he hoped they would be carried in~o effect. as evidenced by their action in connection And he would remind the honorable gentle­ with this matter, was one worthy of aped. man that the Government did not at present dling shopkeeper. Now, how are these two propose that these areas should be open for statements to be reconciled P One was that conditional selection ; and when, on the one this was a grand system of confiscation, which hand, they opened such a large area for sale after all only amounted to throwing open by auction and ±or homestead selection, surely something under three millions of acres in it was in accordance with the arguments of this vast area of country they had to deal honorable members opposite that an equiva­ with. And yet the proposal to throw that valent proportion should be thrown open for area open for selection, in districts which had conditional selection. At any rate, if they been occupied five-and-twenty or thirty were not able to offer such a large area for con­ years-which had been held long beyond the ditional selection as in the railway reserves, originally contemplated time of leasehold­ why should objection be taken to what they was stigmatised as a process of confiscation. now proposed to offer? After all, it was only Mr. PALMER: Hear, hear. three million acres. Exception had been The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS said: taken to the absence of any statement on his And yet at the same time they were treated part as to the demand for land, but he did to an illustration or assertion of the fact that not think it necessary to recapitulate state­ this grand system of confiscation and spolia­ ments which had been in the hands of hon­ tion, was being carried out in a spirit of ped­ orable members during nearly the whole of dling shopkeeping. the session. The report of the Under Secre· Mr. PALMER: I said the proceeds of the tary for Lands distinctly showed what was resumptions would be disposed of in a ped­ their exact position with regard to settlement, dling way. and it was not necessary for him now to refer The :SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS said in detail to that which every honorable mem· He did not know what the honorable gentle­ ber was conversant or familiar with. .Alto­ man considered a peddling disposal of an area gether there had been an amount of of land. He had always supposed that the inconsistency. He liked the open, candid disposal of thousands of acres wres by no way in which the honorable member for means a peddling process. Kennedy sometimes argued his question; but Mr. DE SArGE: Eighty. he confessed he should be afraid to follow The SEcRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS said him in the direction he now proposed, simply he should like to know why the honorable because he was prepared to perform a far gentleman despised eighty acres? They found greater act of what he (the Secretary for that in the case of the large majority of the Lands) supposed the honorable member for homestead selectors, who were the many and Port Curtis would call spoliation and confisca­ not the few, and who had really taken up the tion-that was to give free selection all over the land with the view to making their homes country. The Government preferred to have upon it, the average acreage that had it at the present time within districts where b~en taken up by these men was exactly population was settled, and where there was nmety-one acres. It was a matter of a demand for land. That was the sort of choice with them, and it was shown by free selection they required. They did not figures extending over a series of years, that wish to go into the comparatively unoccupied the average area which those men, who really wilderness, and interfere with gentlemen made the country, chose to take up, was there in their pastoral pursuits. That was about ninety acres; and when the Government no part of their proposal. They thought proposed to afford unusual facilities for set­ that portion of the country might be very tlement-facilities never yet proposed by well left for pastoral occupation ; but in that House, for the many, and not for the settled districts, where there was a large the few, he said it was a great and demand for land, and where people preferred a liberal measure which was not to select, it was justifiable to throw this area worthy to be stigmatised-as the honorable open. It was a wise policy to provide in this gentleman had been pleased to stigmatise it way for settlement when there was a demand -as a peddling shopkeeping measure. It for land for that purpose, and at the same time was one in which there was evidence of a not to interfere unnecessarily with portions desire to open out large tracts of country, of the country to which that class of settle­ and afford facilities to the many-to the large ment had not extended. He thought hon­ numbers of the laboring classes rather than orable members should be a little more con­ to the few capitalists. But at the same sistent in the illustration of their policy. time, they offered considerable facili­ He considered that this measure was a ties to the capitalists to settle under moderate one, and he hoped it might also the Railway Reserves Bill. The horror­ prove to be a sufficient one. He saw nothi!lg able member for N ormanby had referred immoderate in proclaiming that the remam­ to the land which would be thrown open ing portions of those lands should be thrown Resumptions from Runs [17 OcToBER.] in the Settled Districts. 975 open for settlement, when in doing so they difficulty of advising them as to which was did not interfere with the tenure of the prtJ· the best way to proceed. He did not think sent holders. Instead of making the re­ it was in the Speaker's province to do so, sumptions in such a way that the leaseholds and he did not think the honorable the would be absolutely withdrawn, they pre­ Speaker would undertake to say whether ferred to leave the leasehold intact, but sub­ they should go into committee for the ject to the right of selection. If, therefore, purpose of making these alterations. He the land was not selected, it would remain in said there was nothing in the practice of the hands of the leaseholder until by effiuxion Parliament requiring it should be done in of time the lease expired. That, surely, committee, and it seemed to him that the was not confiscation! That, surely, was not Government wanted time wasted again in spoliation ! And the honorable member for committee, and have another real business Port Curtis, who was thoroughly conversant day lost. And there was another reason. with the question, tried to delude his These amendments seemed to him to be the followers into believing what he did not most extraordinary he ever heard of, and he believe himself. trusted the honorable member for Mulgrave Mr. P A.LMER : How do you know what I would pay attention to what he was saying. believe? The Government now proposed an amend­ The SEcRETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS said ment, and what was the result of it P It was the honorable gentleman knew this was a put in apparently because they had made a measure of justice which was inevitable, and blunder by putting in the name of a run why should he, at the head of his followers, which did not exist, and probably a name lead them to suppose he really believed what which did not exist in the Land Office books; he did not believe. He hoped, in discussing and they now proposed to amend it, and the this question in regartl to small matters of result would be that it would be either detail, the House might decide, on the honor­ "Taromeo," or "Tandary," according to the able Speaker's advice, what course was best way that honorable member voted. He did to be adopted to effect the object they had in not hesitate to say it was a threat, and if not view, in making whatever aiterations might intended as a threat, at any rate it could be be necessary. carried out; and he doubted whether the Mr. WALSH confessed that he could not honorable member could conscientiously vote understand why these amendments were pro­ at all if this amendment were allowed to be posed until the honorable the Minister for put. He threw back the words which were Lands rose and made one of his extraordinary, used by the honorable the Attorney-General extravagant, and spirited speeches, which last night-that it was one of the most m­ was quite unnecessary, and then he saw the decent amendments that he ever heard ema­ object of it, and why he had induced one of nate from any member on the other side of his colleagues to give him this opportunity of the House. Now, they understood the object again addressing the House. The honorable of the amendment. As far as he could see, if gentleman had a very important duty to per­ the honorable member for Mulgrave voted form, and that was to bring forward other against the Government, it would be " Taro­ subjects, and so distract honorahle members meo," and if he voted with them, it would from the real question. He (Mr. W alsh) be" Tandary." thought the honorable member for Port The motion was then put mad passed. Curtis made a very reasonable speech, and The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the next other honorable members had also made amendment was in line-- reasonable speeches. That honorable mem­ The SPEAKER : The honorable member has ber did not scream; he did not go into already proposed one amendment. hysterics almost in his speech ; and it The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: It is an was evident the honorable the Minister for amended question. Lands seemed to think there was some­ Mr. W A.LSH: The honorable member has thing wanting in the debate; and he there­ spoken. fore got these amendments moved. There was The ATTORNEY- GENERAL : I have not no necessity whatever for it, and he believed spoken on the amended question. the whole thing could have been passed by The SPEAKER : The question now before this time, had it not been, in the first instance, the House is the same as the original for the difficulty that honorable gentleman had question. raised,and which he (Mr. W alsh) feltmusthave The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said if that were depressed the honorable the Speaker. The the case, it would require a separate member amendments could be made in the House, to move every amendment. He respectfully and there was no necessity to go into commit­ submitted that as the question has been tee, unless they wished to waste the whole amended, it was a separate question. evening, by giving every member an oppor­ Mr. WALSH : Amended at the instiga­ tunity of talking as often as he pleased ; and tion of the Government. he believed that was what the Government The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said it did not desired-to get the measure defeated in that matter by whom. By general consent, the way. There was no necessity for the pretext long list of runs had not been read through, of placing the honorable the Speaker in the but it was part of the main question, and 976 Resumptions from Runs [ASSEMBLY.] in tke Settlerl Districts. supposing there were thirteen amendments, this was an inconvenient course of proce­ and there were only twelve members dure, that if this amendment were carried,, present to move them, and one could not be he would undertake to get the other amend­ moved-- ments made in the other House. Mr . .J. ScoTT rose to a point of order. He Mr. PALMER said this was a very easy submitted that the honorable member was way of disposing of the matter-to get the entirely out of order, because, if the course amendments made in the other House. It he proposed were taken, the result would be was the first time he had ever heard a Min­ that one member could move an amendment, ister of the Crown proposing such a thing. and the whole House could speak on it, and He would point out. to the honorable the the question would never be settled; there Minister for Lands that he had amended the would be no end to it if that were ad­ schedule in the hands of honorable members ; missible. but what was he to do with the schedule on The SPEAKER : I am certainly of opinion the table of the House P There was no that it would be more correct that each amendment there. amendment should be moved by a separate The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: This is only member, unless the House consents to the omitting parts of the schedule. course proposed. Mr. THOMPSON said the honorable Minister Mr. PALMER said they seemed to be getting for Lands had asked the opinion of the the business into a very nice mess. It House as to how the Government should would be impossible for the clerks at the conduct their business, but he thought the table to follow all these amendments which Government should lead the House. Why were being put to the House ; and the proper did they not move for a committee where the plan for the honorable the Secretary for amendments could be made P Surely they Lands to have pursued was to move that the did not expect the whole House to wade House go into committee. He could not do through a matter like this. it in the House ; and it was ridiculous get­ The CoLONIAL SECRETARY moved- ting one member after another to move amendments they knew nothing about. That on the lOth line, the figures "23,000 " be omitted, with a view of inserting "22,100." The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he under­ stood that the amendments would be allowed The SPEAKER: With the permission of the to be made, and that the motion could then House, as there are numerous amendments, be put in its amended iorm. I will put the question in a different way. I will put the question- Mr. PAL:MER: Who asked for it P The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he under­ That ip. the lOth line, the schedule be amended stood the honorable the Minister for Lands to by omitting the figures "23,000 " and inserting ask for it, and he was surprised the proposal "22,100." was not acceded to. Amendment put and passed. HoNORABLE MEMBERS of the Opposition : Mr. McLEAN moTed, by way of amend­ It was never asked for. ment-- The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said it was the That "and B " on the 11th line be omitted. first time he had heard it had not been asked Mr. W ALSH : Perhaps the honorable for, and it was the first time his honorable member will explain what it is for. friend had heard of it. That was an obvious Mr. McLEAN said the reason why he way of avoiding the difficulty. He sub­ moved the amendment was, brcause of the mitted, as a matter of order, that every area being redueed. amendment made a new question, and there Amendment put and carried. was no necessity for adopting the absurd Mr. EDMONDSTONE moved, as an amend­ practice of getting a different member to ment- move every amendment. He would point That in the 11th line "20,000" be omitted, out that the amendments were more in with the view of inserting "19,000." number than the number of members on that Question put and passed. side of the House, and therefore, if this Mr. FRASER moved- practice were held to be c.Jrrect, all the amendments could not be made. He remem­ That the letter " B " in the 13th line be bered last session, or the session before, the omitted. Speaker reading the whole motion through Mr. WALSH rose to a question of privilege. from beginning to end, and every amendment It appe~red that the Government supporters made it a new motion-an amended motion, were moving amendments on the motion in­ and every member could speak on every troduced by the Government, and, in fact, amendment. defeating it. He did not understand this Mr. BELL thought justice would be done kind of procedure at all. He wished to know to these unhappy Crown lessees after all. if this was the measure of the honorable He believed this was a measure of justice member for Bandanba, and whether the Gov­ that had crept in by the direction of an all­ ernment had abandoned it ? providing Providenre to oblige the reproduc­ The SECRETARY l'Q..R PuBLIC LANDS said he tion of the schedule and fresh thirty days' might be allowed to state in rxplanation, as notice. Eesumptions fi•om Runs [17 OcTOBER.] in the Settlerl Districts. 977

The SECRETARY FOR PuBLic LANDS : It If he would look at the schedule he would does not require any. find " Colinton, East and West Run, 94,080 Mr. BELL said he heard it did not require acres." · any. Then it would be totally informal, so Mr. PALMER: Coochin Coochin. that there might be nothing done this session The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said : Well, take after all. Coochin Coochin. That stood " about 23,000 Mr.• r. ScOTT asked the ruling of thehonor­ acres," as per descriptions maiked A and B, able the Speaker as to whether the question had and it had been amended by omitting " and been formally put. He submitted the mJtion B," and it now read "Coochin Coochin Run, had never been formally put ; it had never 22,100 acres, as per description marked A," been read over either by the mover or the so that they knew exactly the boundaries. honorable the Speaker. They seemed to be In the case of Nindooimba, an amendment getting very irregular in their proceedings. had also been made so as to stand " 19,000 The motion ought c~rtainly to have been rea_d acres, as per description marked A" ; and by the mover of It, and, at all events, It these were the only two instances in which ought to have been read once by the honor­ the area of each piece was not mentioned. It able the Sneaker. He remembered on a was only whero the area was very small it was former occasion, when there was a long list, not mentioned; and all the other amend­ the Speaker said he would read it over once, ments would be with regard to pieces which and ask the permission of the House to allow that to stand for altogether. The were not required. whole of the motion had never been read, Mr. WALSH said the explanation of the and it seemed to him their proceedings were honorable the Attorney-General went for altogether wrong. nothing. If these amendments were made­ The SPEAKER : I would point out that I and important amendments had had been understood the honorable the Minister for made-then the provisions of the Act had not Lands, in moving the motion, to request the been complied with, that the proposed House to agree to taking the motion without resumptions should be laid on the table of reading the schedule ; and since it was not the House. That was as clear as possible. read by the honorable member who moved the He wanted to see the resumptions pass ; he motion, I do not think I was bound to read wantert to see everything done in the way of it myself. throwing open the lands of the colony for the Mr. J. ScoTT said he understood the hon­ benefit of the people, and for exposing the orable member that the schedule should be Government for the way in which they do read once, and that would do, not that it it. should not be read at all. Amendment put and passed. The SPEAKER : The honorable member did The CoLONIAL TREASURER said he thought not read the schedule himself in moving the it would be more convenient to both sides of motion, and the motion I put is precisely the the House that the further consideration of motion he moved ; and I understood he re­ the matter should take place in committee. quested permission, in order to save time, to allow the motion to be put without reading He therefore moved:- the schedule-taking the schedule as read. That the question be amended by the omission Mr. P ALMER said he should like to know, if of all the words following the word " That," at the amendments were carried, how they ,were t.he commencement, with a view to the insertion, in their place, of the worcls " The Speaker do now to get the schedule on the table amended ? leave the chair, and the House resolve itself into The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: There are no a Committee of the Whole to consider these amendments in that schedule. resolutions." Mr. PALMER said he rather thought there were. Mr. PALMER said, before this was done, the The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS said motion should certainly be read once in the the schedules were laid on the table merely House. It had never been read yet, and he for the information of the House. submitted that before the question could be Mr. P ALMER said if the schedule were laid put, they must have the motion before them, on the table merely for the information of the and recorded in the journals of the House. House, then they were resuming three mil­ There was nothing before the House lion acres of land without any boundaries except what the honorable the Speaker whatever. That was what the statement of the had read; the rest was all a blank. honorable the Minister for Lands amounted He thought the sooner the Government got to. This schedule must correspond with out of their difficulty the better, but there the one which defined the boundaries; and if was one objection he had, which waR, that the it did not, they were resuming three million motion had never been read even by the acres anywhere and everywhere all over the Minister who had proposed it ; they were colony, wherever they liked. , actually amending a motion which had never The ATTORNEY·GFNERAL said the boner­ been read to the House, and he did not think able gentleman misunderstood the motion. in his experience they had ever come across The boundaries were merely described in tl1e a case of the same sort before; why, they schedule that had been laid upon the table. might just as well bring in a Bill and not 4c 978 Resumptions from Runs [ASSEMBLY.] in the Settled 1Jist1•icts. read it. He thought the Government had SETTLED DISTRICT OF MORETON'. better retrace their steps. To be resumed from the 94,080 acres Colinton East and West Mr. W A.LSH said the point raised by the Run. honorable member for Port Curtis was a 120,320 Mount Stanley East and most serious one. He did not know whether ViTest Run. the Government considered that it was ma­ 107 sq. m. Kilcoy Run. terial that the practice of Parliament or their 120 Eskdale Run. Standing Orders should be obeyed, but still, 127 " Cooyar Run. as the question had been raised by the hon­ 59,670 acres" Cressbrook Run. orable member, some notice of it should be 150 sq. m. Emu Creek Run. taken by the honorable the Speaker. He 6,601 acres Waverly Run. should be very sorry to see the trouble of 33,000 Tamb,ry Run. reading the schedule repeatedly inflicted About 23,000 " Coochin Ooochin Run, as upon the Speaker, but if an honorable member per descriptions marked demanded that it should be read, he did not .A and B. see how the honorable gentleman could help 20,000 Nindooimba Run, as pel' reading it. As the objection had been raised, " " descriptions markedA.,B. he apprehended that the question must be 38,000 Telemon Run. 44,000 " Durundur Run. formally anrl properly put. He recollected 11,600 " Bromelton Ruu. that on one occasion the then Speaker, 11,000 " Grantham Run. the late Mr. Eliott, put it to the House, after " 18,000 " Tarampa Run, as per de- a long motion had been read once by the " scriptions marked A, B. mover, whether it was necessary for him to do 72,000 Mount Brisbane Run. so again, and the House consented to his not " 26,000 " Buaraba Run. doing it. But in the present instance, an 11,500 Undullah Run. honorable member had called the Speaker's 35,000 " Helidon Run, as per de- attention to the fact that the motion had not " scriptions marked A, B. been properly put, and he (Mr. Walsh) should, 52,000 Fassifern Run. foro ne, ever stand up for the forms of the House " 58,500 " Melcombe Run. " 58,000 Franklin Vale Run. being observed. He thought the honorable " " Speaker was bound to rule that no amend­ SETTLED DISTRICT OF DARLING DOWNS. ment could be made until the motion had About 47,500 acres Canning Downs Run. been formally put. 6,850 , Goomburra Run, as per The SPEAKER said he thought that the -descriptions marked .A, point of order raised by the honorable mem­ B,C,D. bers ior Port Curtis and the Warrego was 15,450 West brook Run, as per de­ an important one, for although the honorable scriptions marked .A, B. Minister for Lands had asked the House to 51,600 Oecil Plains Run, exclusive consent to the schedule not being read, he " of 29,400 included in thought it was very doubtful whether the the Western Railway House could consent to passing a motion Reserve. without its first of all having been read. ., 9,300 Ellangowan Run, as per de­ " scriptions marked A, B. Mr. PALMER said that if the motion had 11,000 St Ruth Run, exclusive been read once it would suffice, but it had " of 20,000 included in not been read at all. He did not say that it West em Railway Re­ must be read from the chair, but it must be serve. read by somebody. He did not wish to give 35,000 North Branch Run. the honorable the Speaker the trouble of 83,000 " Y andilla Run. reading it, but he thought the honorable 54,000 " Tummaville Run. Minister for Lands should have read it, and " 12,600 " Talgai Run, as per descrip· that the Speaker should then have followed " tions marked A, B, C. the example of a former Speaker, and have 6,800 Pilton Run. asked the House to accept the motion as 74,560 " Rosalie Plains Run. read. " 40,624 " J oudaryan Run, as per des· The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS said " criptionsmarkedA, B, C. that in order to save any further discussion, 46,500 Canal Creek Run. he had better read the motion, but he trusted 9,180 Peel's Plains or Felton Run, as per descriptions his reading it once would be deemed suf­ marked A, B, C. ficient. The motion was :- 18,500 Eton Vale Run, as per de­ That, in order to encourage the settlement of " " scriptions marked A, population in the Settled Districts of the colony, B,C,D. and in the pursuance of section 10 of " Tke Crown 37,000 Beauaraba Run. Lands .Alienation Act of 1868," this House 81,000 " Jimbour Run, as per de- resolves to resume from the leases of the " scripti,;,ns marked A and undermentioned runs the areas hereinafter spe· B, and exclusive of cified, as described in the Schedule laid on the 92,000 acres included table of this House, of the lands proposed to be in the Western Rail­ resumed from the runs in the said districts. way Reserve. Resumptions front Runs [17 OcTo:eEn.] in fh.e Settleil JJistricts.

About 13,798 acres Clifton Run, as per de· Mr. MolLwRAITH said that the motion, as scriptions marked A, B, put by the honorable Speaker, was not the C, D, E, F, G, H. motion read by the honorable Minister for 70 sq. m. East Prairie Run. Lands at all, who had read it with the " 30,000 acres Irvingdale Run. amendments. " 128,380 Rosenthal Run. Mr . .r. ScoTT said he thought there was 8,270 " South Toolburra Run. only one course open to the honorable Min­ 10,094 " West Prairie Run. ister for Lands which was, to withdraw the motion and introduce another in its SETTLED DISTRICT OF WIDE BAY AND BURNETT. place; the proceedings had been altogether irregular. 28,500 acres Conandale Run. The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS appre­ 54·,300 " Tahiti Run. hended that, although in reading the resolu­ 14,350 " 'l'oweran Run. tions he had recognized the amendments 54,080 " Kolonga Run. made, yet the honorable the Speaker having 72,080 " Molangul Run. 50 sq. m. Moolboolomon Run. ruled that there was an informality, they had 17,280 acres North Kenilworth Run. to commence again. 16,000 " Cambroon Run. Mr. PALMER raised a point of order that 58,000 " Teebar Run. the honorable Minister for Lands had not 9 sq. m. Glenbar Run. read the motion at all as it was on the paper, 12,870 acres Warrah Run, and he had called attention to the fact; but 107 sq. m. from Gigoomgan Run. still the honorable gentleman had read the 16,000 acres Tantitha Run. resolutions with the amendments in them. 25 sq. m. Sarahanna and Agnes V ale The honorable Speaker, however, had read Run. them as they appeared on the paper. He 6,000 acres Lower Doongal Run. did not see any other course but to withdraw 32 sq. m. Toomolongyore Run. the motion. 66 " Stanton Harcourt Run. Mr. WALSH said he had been waiting for 20,200 acres Doongal Run. an opportunity to offer another reason why 197 sq. m. YabbaR.un. the honorable Minister for Lands should 39,000 acres Walla Run. Toogoom Run. withdraw the resolutions. It was proposed 14,000 " by them to resume sixty-five miles from his 8,360 " Tagigan Run. 69,300 " KolanRun. run, Munduran, or about the last acre left, 34 sq. m. Imbil Run. although not one had been purchased ; but 65 " l\'[unduran Run. the description given in the schedule was 23,350 acres Cnrra Run. that of a boundary fully one hundred miles 8,300 " Kulognm Run. away. 10,960 " Clifton Run. The SPEAKER thought the remarks of the About 43!- sq.m. Bingera Run. honorable member would be more in order 43,000 acres Widgee Widgee Run. when the motion was under consideration. 34,000 " Gin Gin Run. At the present time a point of order had been " 38,900 " Kilkivan Run, as per de· raised that the honorable Minister for Lands scriptions marked A, B. had not read the motion as it was on the , 16,500 , Wonbah Run. paper; the honorable member had certainly With the permission of the House, he would read it with one or two alterations. add the following words as a second resolu­ Mr. W ALSH said the Government must tion:- withdraw the resolution, and bring it in in a new form ; but he was going to point out (2.) That the foregoing resolutions be commu· nicated to the Legislative Council for their con· that while they proposed to withdraw sixty­ currence, by message, in the usual form. five square miles of his run, to the very last acre he believed, they had actually described The question was then put, when the boundaries as some 100 miles away. So Mr. W ALSH asked what had become of imperfect was their measure, that they had the amendments which had been made ? not in one single direction indicated the boundaries of the land they intended to The SPEAKER said that they were now resume within 100 miles of where they lay. starting afresh from the beginning. He confessed he was doing himself an injury Mr. W ALSH said that by solemn motion of in thus exposing the error, but he would that House, certain amendments had been prefer suffering that to seeing an injustice agreed to, and they could not ignore them at done to the colony. The description of the wish of a Minister. Those amendments Munduran Run was:-" It commences at the were absolutely records of the House, and summit of Mount Larcom "-that was 100 therefore the motion could only be put with miles from Munduran Run-" bounded on the amendments. the south-west by the Mount Larcom Range" The SPEAKER said that the motion had -that was about 120 miles south-west of the never been put in its proper form, and that run. Then the description went on to a place being the case, no amendments could be made which everybody knew-" passing through a in it. tree marked MXII to the shore of the Nar· 980 Resumptions from Runs [ASSEMBLY.] in the Settled Districts. rows." The Narrows, as was well known, ridiculous on the face of them, and had got was the water highway between Gladstone into an entanglement out of which they were and Rockhampton, and that was at least 100 unable to get He hoped the country would miles beyond the boundary of his run. He exactly understand how the delay in the busi­ mentioned this subject to induce the Govern­ ness of the country arotie, and see that it was ment to withdraw their resolution, for he not owing to the Opposition, but owing to could point out imperfections in other de­ the gross incompetency of the present Min­ scriptions of runs that would be affected by istry. this persecuting measure. It was something Mr. HALY said the Government ought to amazing that the Government, while they have taken his advice and withdrawn the proposed to take away his run to the very resolutions early in the evening, for he was last acre, had described the boundaries of a convinced even then that they knew nothing run lOO miles from it. about them. They were in a fog then, and had The CoLONIAL TREASURER said that, as it got into a worse fog since, and did not know was the honorable the Speaker's ruling that how to get out of it. If they took his advice, consideration of the resolution must com­ they would withdraw the resolutions and re­ mence de novo, he supposed the amendment consider them, and bring them in again, not that the House should go into committee this, but next year, for he was certain Christ­ must be proposed again. He begged, there­ mas would arrive before they would get out fore, ~o move as an amendment to the original of their present fog. questiOn, The MINISTER FOR LANDs said he re­ That the question be amended by the omis­ gretted they had not met with a little more sion of all the words following the word " That," forbearance from the other side of the House at the commencement, with a view to the inser­ in this matter. The motion was unusually tion, in their place, of the words "The Speaker long, and involving many details seldom given do now leave the chair, and the House resolve whiletheHousewas out ofcommittee. He took itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider occasion to point out this fact when he sub· these resolutions." mitted the resolution, and it was quite true a Mr. WALSH said it would be a more rational certain amount of informality attached to the motion to propose that the House should pro­ proceedings through his not reading the ceed to the Orders of the Day. The Govern­ resolution. But that was condoned by the ment were evidently in a muddle, and had House, and no serious objection was taken to been so for hours, and now they proposed to it, and the business proceeded with the go into committee, simply that the House consent of the House. It was, perhaps, some­ might enjoy a few hours' confusion while the what of a violation of the practice of the House; Chairman of Committees was in the chair. but it was tacitly admitted, and the debate The Government, in short, wanted to waste went on. Then the honorable member another evening. Having discovered that for Port Curtis raised the question formally, they had been bungling all the night, it would that the motion should be read, and that be much better for them to move that the objection must be considered effective. If it Orders of the Day be read. Let the House was a mistake at all, it was one committed by get out of the entanglement and do something the toleration of the House. He had been for the good of the country; at present they permitted to proceed, and it was hardly fair were preparing to heap confusion upon con­ that after the proceedings had arrived at fusion. He could see that the Government the stage they did, objections should be taken. knew so little of their duty in connection He contended that, it being an unusual with this matter, and there was so little sym­ motion, he was not wrong in submitting the pathy on the part of their followers, that matter for the Speaker's opinion, as he now when they got into committee they would did. He (the Minister for Lands) wished to be in such a towering mess that the Speaker mention, now that the member for Port Curtis would have to be sent for sooner or later to had taken exception to his not having read hear the announcement that no progress had the motion, that he was proceeding to do so been made. Out of kindness to the Govern­ when the honorable the Speaker ruled that, ment, therefore, he moved- there having been an informality in the pro­ ceedings, any amendment must be ignored, That the Orders of the Day be now read. and the proceedings begun de novo. Under Mr. IvoRY said he hoped it would not be these circumstances, he might claim the said any more that the members on his side toleration of the House, and he thought of the House obstructed the business of the his honorable colleague was not wrong in country. It must be patent to the House submitting his amendment; it would, perhaps, that the present Government were unable to be best now it the subject were at once conduct the business of the country, and had discussed in committee. He frankly admitted been systematically making a series of the error pointed out by the honorable mem­ muddles during the whole session. They ber for W arrego respecting the Munduran had brought in Bills in a wrong manner ; Run. Though responsible in the House for one Bill was brought in twice or three times, everything connected with his department, it and had to go back again ; and now they had would be at once seen that this was an error brought in schedules which were absolutely committed in the Survey Office, and no doubt Resumptions from Runs [17 OcTOBE:&.] in tAe Settled JJist1·icts. 981 some other run of the same name had been glaring as they were, he would not have pro­ described. This error, of course, must be mised to vote for the resolutions. The hon­ remedied, but that was no reason why the orable gentleman at the head of the Govern­ whole of the proceedings should be stopped. ment told him he had changed his mind, be­ He hoped, therefore, the House would agree cause he said he would vote for these resump­ to going into committee. tions. He could not see from what source Mr. PALMER said the speech of the Minister the Premier had obtained the information for Lands showed that they must not go on that he had changed his mind as to the with the subject before the House until the necessity of free selection. He was well schedules had been taken back to the Survey aware that if the honorable gentleman had no Office. If such a gross mistake as this facts of his own, he knew how to create them, and occurred, how did they know that every one he (Mr. O'Sullivan) must assure the House of the items was not equally incorrect? and the country that the honorable gen­ "With such a mistake as that pointed out by tleman had done so on thiS'" occasion. Had the honorable member for W arrego, the he first heard the speech of the Minister for House had no guarantee of the accuracy of Lands, it was very doubtful whether he anything. He and other members on that would have committed himself to saying that side were well aware that the Munduran he would vote for the resolutions. The Run was wrongly described, and that what honorable gentleman had no grounds what­ was given was probably a description of ever for saying that he had been unfairly Mount Larcomb Run, near Gladstone. treated by the Opposition. The honorable Certainly it was not a description of M un­ member for Warrego had put him on the duran Run. The whole of the schedules must right road, and he ought to be very grateful. therefore be returned to the Survey Office, When he (Mr. O'Sullivan) said at an earlier and be compared with the original surveys, portion of the evening that he would vote for and then come back to the House guaranteed these resolutions, he was under the impression by the head of the Survey Office as correct. that they would be thrown open to free selec­ If the honorable member for W arrego had tion; but, instead of that, he found now from the not had the honesty and manliness to point Minister for Lands that they would not be out the error, his run would not have been open for selection at all, nor would the rail­ resumed at all. The honorable member way reserves be open for free selection. was quite right in saying that his run The MINISTER FOR LANDS : I never said could not be within a hundred miles of anything of the kind. the run described in the resolution. Mr. O'SuLLIVAN said the Minister for If this glaring mistake could occur in a run Lands had further stated that eighty acres of they knew of, how many others might there land were enough for any settler. not be equally incorrect? The Minister for The MINISTER FOR LAN vs : I did not say Lands must not only take the schedule back, that. but must not bring it forward until he could Mr. O'SuLLIVAN said a Chinaman could guarantee that it was correct in every parti­ not live upon that quantity of land, and the ticular. With respect to the forbearance most industrious men in the colony, the spoken of by the Minister for Lands, it was Germans, could not do so. The honorable the duty of the Government to conduct the gentleman informed the House that the business of the House; but the way in which average amount ofland taken up under the Act the present Government conducted their of 1868 was ninety-one acres, but the reason of business was to get into every conceivable that was evident-the settlers could get no muddle during the whole of the session. more. It was not from want of a will, but There had never been a Ministry in Queens­ from want of means in many instances. He land amongst "whom so many blunders had knew himself, for a fact, that men had re­ been made. The Government blundered fused more than eighty acres, when they were systematically and apparently on prin­ ready and anxious to take up double. In ciple, and it was about the only principle reality, therefore, it was no benefit at all to they had got. Another irregularity slurred the colony to have these resumptions; the over by the Minister for Lands was not only only thing to do was to have them thrown that he did not read the motion at the proper open to free selection. He could assure the time, but that when he did read it, he did honorable the Premier that he had not not read it as it was printed, as the Speaker changed his mind upon this point. On look­ did. This was another thing probably de­ ing around him he found that there were two manding the forbearance of the House. In members on his side who were in the House his opinion they had forborne enough, and in when the Act of 1868 was passed, and he went a serious matter of this sort, it behaved the in for free selection ; and he could well remem­ House to be very careful in resuming lands ber that tl:~e honorable members for W arrego with such boundaries as they had had a spe­ and Port Curtis were in favor of free selec­ cimen of. If the House did not take care, tion ; and since then he had heard the horror­ the Government would be resuming runs in able the leader of the Opposition say it would the very centre of Queensland. be a good thing for the colony when every Mr. O't:iuLLIVAN said that, had he known acre was open to selection. In the face of the bll.lnders i~ the sched-qle had been so these facts, how co-qld the :Preinier say he 982 Resumptlons from Runs [ASSEMBLY.] in tke Settled Districts. had changed his mind; and why should the that these resumptions were not made honorable gentleman think it worth while to in the way they should be. The resolu­ make a statement which, from his position, tion before the House referred to the would go forth to the country, about such a schedule, and the schedules gave a good deal humble individual as himself? He (Mr. of extraneous information; now, he did not O'Sullivan), however, had not the slightest see how they were to amend the motion notion . of allowing such an assertion to go without amending the schedule. If the Gov­ forward without a direct contradiction. ernment took the matter back, they would The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the horror­ have the advantage of bringing it on again in member for W arrego had discovered what an amended form, and putting the whole was no doubt a mistake in the schedule, but thing in globo. It was a very cavalier way he had not pointed out any others, and pro­ of resuming people's properties to put a bably there were no more. He admitted schedule on the table of the House with the that, it having been pointed out that there faults which had been exposed by the hon­ was a serious mistake in the schedule, it was orable member for Warrego. When he (Mr. desirable the House should have an opportu­ Thompson) had once to introduce a similar nity of satisfying itself that there were no proposition, he had a separate resolution for other mistakes. He rose, therefore, to sug­ each run, and the resolution distinctly gest that the debate should be adjourned till pointed out the particular piece ofland which to-morrow. By ihat time there would be was to be taken. Some of these schedules full particulars of every run, and the House commenced by stating " Part of this run is would be in a position to find out whether situated in a timber reserve" ; or, "this re­ there were any further mistakes. The hon­ sumption is exclusive of alienated land," m·able member for Warrego had moved a and so on. This was not at all the motion that would have the effect of adjourn­ solemn instrument of resumption that ing the matter for an indefinite time .. should take place on an occasion of this sort. Mr. W ALSH : But that is not my inten­ Of course, if they were going to make a tion. wholesale sweep, the shorter it was and the The ATTORNEY-GENERAL : I know nothing less said about it the better. This only about intentions. I only state the fact. showed the necessity of carrying out the Mr. W ALSH: The Attorney-General is im­ forms of the House, because if the motion puting unworthy motives. That is not my had no't been read, they should never have mtention. thought of looking at the schedule, and that The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he was im­ mistake would probably never have been dis­ puting no motive whatever. He merely covered. He thought if the Government stated that the result of the honorable mem­ were trying to be a reform Government in ber for W arrego's motion would be the reference to Parliamentary practice, the less indefinite postponement of the question. The they said about it the better, especially after matter as it was would not come under their what they saw yesterday. consideration for a week, as no notice of Question-That the Orders of the Day be motion could be given till to-morrow. now read-put. Mr. P ALMER: It will take you till next Mr. WALSH : My motion was that we week to get the corrections made. proceed to the Orders of the Day. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he was The SPEA.KER : I put the motion in the authorised to state that the Government form given in the Standing Orders. The would, to-morrow, be in a position to correct question is-That the Orders of the Day be the errors and give particulars of every run now read. on the schedules. It the honorable member The House divided with the following for Warrego's motion was carried, the session result:- would be proLracted for, at least, a week, and AYES, 16. probably more. By the Standing Orders of ~'i:essrs. Palmer, Bell, Thompson, Walsh, Mcll· the other branch of the Legislature, every wraith, Macrossan, Haly, Amhurst, J. Scott, matter of this nature was referred to a Select Stevenson, Graham, W. Scott, Ivory, O'Sullivan, Committee, and there were sixty or seventy DeSatge, and Buzacott. matters upon which evidence would have to be taken. He suggested, therefore, that the NoEs, 18. honorable member for W arrego should with­ Messrs. Douglas, Thorn, Dickson, McLean, draw his motion, and allow the debate to Stewart, Griffith, Tyrel, Beattie, Groom, Fraser, be postponed till to-morrow. If the horror­ Bailey, Murphy, Fryar, Kingsford, Morgan, able member would not do that, let them put Edmondstone, MacDonald, and Foote. the matter to a division whether the House The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, in order would allow the matter to be postponed in­ that this matter might be disposed of, he definitely, or till to-morrow. moved:- Mr. THoMPSON thought enough had been said about the forbearance which the Min­ That the debate be adjourned. ister for Lands asked them to exercise, and Mr. PALMER: Till when? he would say nothing more on that subject. A MEMBER of the Government: To-mor· .What he wanted to do was to ;point out row. Resumptions from Runs [17 0CTOBE!l.J i1r tke Settled Districts. 983

Mr. WALSH thought the Government Mr. GRAHAM said the honorable the At­ should take sufficient time to consider the torney-General had stated that that probably matter, because he was sure they would be was the only error in the schedule, but he found committing the same blunder to-mor­ should strongly advise the Government to row as they had to-day. He was quite take time. From the extremely jubilant and certain that there would not be time in the airy manner of the honorable member for Land Office to correct the many blunders that · Warrego, he (Mr. Graham) had no doubt he existed in these descriptions by to-morrow ; had another trump in the heel of his fist, and and besides that, members of the House that he had only been restrained from going required more than twenty-four hours to further to-night by the fear that he would look into these propositions of the Govern­ utterly overwhelm tbe Government. ment. He would ask members of the Oppo­ Mr. P ALMER sald he presumed there would sition whether, seeing the position they had be no objection to the adjournment of the been placed in this evening by the confessed debate, seeing the muddle the Government blunder of the Government, they would be had got into ; but he could not see how they able to get anything like the information they would be prepared to go on with the question required by three or four o'clock, or any to-morrow. The schedule would have to be time to-morrow, to enable them to approach corrected and reprinted, even from the the subject and deal with it in a statesmanlike amendments that had been made through the way. If honorable members were going to bungling of the Government that evening. vote simply because they were members of The ATTORl'fEY-GENERAL: No. the House, whether they were right or Mr. PALMER said the Attorney-General wrong, of course, they did not want any had got the Government into more muddles information ; but there were honorable mem­ in the conduct of the business of the House bers who did want information, and he said than any other member of it. He stated twenty-four hours was not sufficient time to that without fear of contradiction-of sound allow. He thought the Government should contradiction-that the A.ttorney-General, by take at least a week to endeavor to correct his nisi prius proceedings in that House, had the glaring blunders which existed in the got the Government into more muddles in descriptbns of these proposed resnmptions. the conduct cf the business of the House In the Darling Downs district there were no than all the other members in it put together. doubt blunders, and more than that, there He had done it over and over again this was gross favoritism applied to those runs ; SE'SSion. and that, he believed, was what the Govern­ The ATTORNEY-GENERAL : If you repeat it ment were afraid of, and they wanted to often enough, people will believe it. prevent honorable members from having time Mr. PALMER said they believed it now, to consider it. both in the House and out of it. Mr. BELL thought it would be almost The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: No, they don't. necessary now to send out a staff of surveyors Mr. PALMER: \Vho made the mistake that to make a fresh survey of all these runs, in­ a Bill that had been sent down by message stead of taking the descriptions from the could be read a first time without going into existing maps and plans, because it was im· committee? Was that the Attorney-General? possible at present to say whether these mis­ Who made the assertion that it was not at takes had arisen in the office in taking the all necessary to pass the preamble of a Bill P descriptions from the plans, or in the original Was that the Attorney-General ? surveys. The surveyors might have made The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: And right too. blunders, and he thought before the House Mr. PALMER said, but he, the Attorney­ could be thoroughly satisfied, the Govern­ General, had to give in though. The horror­ ment should commence de novo. It would able gentleman might be very good in court; be quite time enough to bring this resolution he (Mr. Palmer) had no doubt he was, but he in next session. He thought it would keep knew very little about the conduct of business very well until next session, and if there was in that House. He said the schedule must any moiety or portion of these lands that the be properly printed, and the Government Government found it absolutely necessary to could not have all the descriptions in this dispose of in other ways than by selection schedule compared and corrected and re­ or sale, and it should be so dealt with, printed by to-morrow. If they chose to they would have no difficulty in getting a adjourn the debate, and brought it on again resolution passed to meet such object. He before they were properly prepared, they quite agreed with the honorable members for would get into another muddle with just the Port Curtis and W arrego, that correct de­ same result. scriptions were of vital iniportance, and they The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS said now required actual and accurate descrip­ he thought the motion might stand for the tions made by surveyors upon the land. He adjournment of the debate until to-mol'Tow, thought the Government ought to think of but he freely admitted that the Government this seriously, and if they d1d, he had no would not bring the business on again until doubt they would get the support of some it was in a complete form. Re emphatically honorable members on that side of the expressed his regret that the gross mistake House. which had been pointed out in the schedule 984 Retumptions from Runs, Etc. [ASSEMBLY.] Victoria Bridge Bitt.

should have occurred. It ought never to he had no doubt he would go on repeating it have appeared in the schedule, and he was for the next six months, until at last he could happy that the fault had been pointed out; get somebody to believe it. He was glad to and he should take care that when the have this opportunity of pointing out that schedule and the full details were again it would be just as well for the honorable before the House, they were in proper con­ member not to make such accusations so dition; whatever time it might take, he should freely, unless he had some better foundation not bring them before the House until they for them. He did not know any other were. instances the honorable member could allude HoNORABLE MEMBERS : Hear, hear. to, and if there were more, no doubt they The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he had would be stated, and would be found to have moved the adjournment of the debate without about the same foundation. making a speech, and he wished to know Mr. PALMER: One to-night. if he could speak now P He believed he Question-That the debate be adjourned­ could. put and passed. HoNoRABLE MEMBERS : Speak, speak. The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he only rose moved- because he thought the honorable member That the resumption of the debate stand an for Port Curtis had tried to take an advan­ Order of the Day for to-morrow. tage of him when he could not speak. That He said this was merely a formal motion. It honorable member had made an assertion, did not necessarily follow that the debate which he (the Attorney-General) interrupted would be taken to-morrow. by saying that if he repeated it often enough Mr. W ALSH said, after the announcement it would be believed ; and that was the of the honorable the Minister for Lands, he reason, he supposed, why the honorable thought he might as well promise that it member would go on repeating it. It was a would not be taken to-morrow. custom of his to make assertions, and when HoNORABLE MEMBERS : He said so. they were denied, to repeat them again, and Question put and passed. as he was very persevering, he might go on repeating assertions that were groundless VICTORIA BRIDGE BILL. until at last they were believed. The honor­ The CoLONIAL TREASURER said in intro­ able member was pleased to charge him with ducing this Bill to the House for its second wasting a great deal of the time by mistakes reading, he had no wish to re-open the old in the conduct of the business of the House ; vexed question concerning the action . of but he (the Attorney-General) was not former administrations, or of the Corporation aware that he was responsible for the of Brisbane in the past. He had no desire conduct of the business of the House. The to inflict on the House a recital of the history honorable member was unable to give any of the past in respect to this subject, and to instance, but he was pleased to say there occasion a debate which would be composed . were two, one in reference to a Bill sent of apologists fo! th~ Government ?n one down to that House. side and apologists for the CorporatiOn on An HoNORABLE MEMBER: Two Bills. the other. However much they might, in The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said there might looking at past occurrences, deplore what had have been two Bills, but it was the same taken place, and regard it as something to be thing. They were both sent down by mes­ avoided in the future-inasmuch as he be­ sage, and they were read a first time without lieved that both by forme!' administrations having been introduced in committee; and and by the Corporation there had been a whose fault was that P There was only one great want of ordinary business foresight and precedent to guide them in that House, and vigilance shown in the construction of this that was a precedent established by the hon­ bridge-it was not his intention to dwell upon orable member for Port Curtis himself, which that. He proposed simply to point out to the they were advised to follow, and did follow, House the reasons which had induced the and then they were wrong. Were the Gov­ Government, during the present session, ernment, or was he to blame for that, when to introduce this Bill, and also to put before the only precedent they had was one set by the country what the Government conceived the honorable member for Port Curtis, who to be the equitable considerations not O:f?-lY set himself up to-night as such a paragon of connected with this bridge, but also With perfection in the manner of conducting the similar constructions throughout the colony. business of the House P In the other case, The present Bill was introduced in pursuance the Chairman of Committees ruled in contra­ of a resolution of that House, arrived at on diction to the only authority he (the Attorney­ the 2nd of September last year, to this General) could find, that the enacting part of effect:- a Bill was part of the preamble. That was a "That tlris House will, at its next sitbing, matter on which they could easily agree to resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, for differ, and he maintained his opinion, and the the purpose of considering the following reso· Chairman of Committees could enjoy his. lutions, viz. :- That was the only point on which the honor­ "'That in the opinion of this House, the time a.ble JUeiJlbe~· co~d wa~e l}i~ assl);rtion1 a~d hu anived when the Victoria Bridge, acroee the Vi£'toria Bridge Bill. [17 OcToBER.J Vict01•ia Bridge Bill. 985

River Brisbane-being one of the main thorough· were taken over and considered as a national fares of the colony-together with the lands undertaking. Very recently the Govern­ granted towards the payment of the cost thereo, ment had constructed works of a somewhat and all tolls and revenues incidental to or accruing similar character, namely, over the Conda­ from both, should be transferred from the Cor· mine at Warwick, over the Pioneer at poration of Brisbane and vested in the Govern· Mackay, over the Mary, and they had it in ment of the colony, with a view to the discharge contemplation to construct one over the Fitz· by the said Governn:ent o~ the obligations ill:cur~·ed roy, besides various other bridges of a smaller in respect to the sa1d brtdge and the extmctwn of the tolls thereon. description, such as those over the Logan, the Brisbane, and the .A.lbert; and if those bridges "'That an Address be presented to the Governor, were to be constructed for public conve­ praying that His Excellency may direct a Bill to be brought into this House to give effect to the nience, and were not to be encumbered with foregoing resolutions.' " tolls, he repeated that in that case, if it were deemed, in the wisdom of the Upon these resolutwns, which were arrived House, desirable to take over the Vie· at without division, the present action of the toria Bridge as a national work, it cer­ Government was based in presenting this tainly ought also to be exempt from tolls. Bill, which was now submitted for second Whilst he did not wish to introduce any reading. One principle, he might say, which matters that need not necessarily be imported induced the Government to arrive at the into the debate, in reference to the claims of conclusion that it was desirable that the the Brisbane Corporation ; and whilst he did bridge should be taken over, was t~is :-T~at not wish it to be understood for one moment they considered the whole questiOn of _Its that he appeared there as the champion position, both at the time of its constructJou of those claims, or wanted to obtrude them and at present, might be regarded as that before the House; still, to afford the House of a national work, and not one of a some knowledge of the financial position of purely local character. They were of matters connected vvith the bridge, he should opinion, and he thought it would be be compelled to refer to the report of the borne out by a perusal of the r~port select committee to whom was referred in the of the committee which had been appomted previous session the petition of the Brisbane to inquire into the construction of the bridge, Corporation on the subject .. He might pre­ that during the time of its construction, the face any remarks he would have to make by Government of the day so far regarded it saying that that report was drawn up in a national work that they insisted, and direct opposition to the wishes and opinions perhaps properly so, upon its construction of the chairman, who thought it did not go being carried out with a view to the general far enough in some respects, and that it intro­ requirements of the colony, and not solely duced matters which ought not to have. been with regard to its local character, or introduced. He believed. t.herefore, that it for local benefit. And there was no,doubt would be conceded by honorable members that the action of the Government of the that he was acting very fairly when he day in so regarding it, and providing for its selected, as the basis of his arguments, a report being part of the main thoroughfare of com­ which might be considered as unfriendly to munication from the seaboard to the interior the claims of the Brisbane Corporation. The of the South-western districts of the colony, committee, when dealing with those claims, created a considerable item in the cost of its obtained a large amount of information with construction ; and in that light he contended regard to the endowment in lands due to the that it might fairly be regarded as having Corporation, but which they had not received; been originally intended to be a work of a and st 1ted in their report that under the Par­ national character, and not entirely of a local liamentary Buildings Act of 1864, lands were character. They had now, both at home and sold realising £27,846 10s., on which the in the colonies, outgrown the principle that Corporation received no endowment. The those who used or traversed roads ought to pay report proceeded further to say- for the cost of their construction by the means " That portions of the land included in ' Tke of tolls. Tolls in their day answered remark­ Parliamenta1·y Buildings Act,' were withdrawn ably well, and no doubt did good service ; from its operation by' Tke B1·isbane Waterway but still that principle was considered to be Act' and ' The Brisbane Drainage Act.' " one they had left far behind, and that restric­ tion upon the ordinarytraflicon their highways Also, that through the operation of the had been long looked upon with disfavor. Parliamentary Buildings Act, some valuable Now, if the bridges which had been constructed lands were withdrawn from the operation of by the Government in the past, and which the Municipalities Act, and that the Cor­ were now being constructed on a scale of con­ poration would be thereby deprived of the siderable magnitude in different portions of moiety which would, if those lands were sold, the colony, were constructed with a view to be due to them. The sixth clause of the afford increased facilities for communication report also said- without the restriction of tolls, he could not " That the works in connection with this bridge see on what grounds that restriction should were commenced on plans and specifications diffe_r· be maintained on the Victoria Bridge if it -ing frqm those approved of by the Governor 1ll 986 Victoria Bridge Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Victoria Bridge Bill.

Council. That a year after the contract for the ment in debt to the Corporation of a sum of bridge was entered into the Municipal Council £60,000. was requested by the Governmmt to modify An HoNORABLE MEMBER : Is that all? their plans and to bring the design more in ac­ The CoLONIAL TREASURER said that amount, cm·dance with the requirements of 'The Brisbane viz., £120,950, would reduce the amount due Bridge Act,' so far as relates to the na-vigation of the river by sea-going vessels. 'l'hat negociations on debentures to £60,9~0, or a sum equi­ followed, and finally the Bridge Committee agreed valent to 10s. in the pound would be to amend their plans by making the road-way six handed over to the Corporation ; if the feet higher, the swing-bridge larger, and to con­ endowments were paid and the recom­ struct a free wharf aboYe the bridge, whilst the mendation were carried out ; but instead of Government agreed to ask Parliament to grant handing it over to the C01·portion, the bridge, certain additional lands to the Corporation. That if taken over by the Government, would actu­ the Corporation carried out t,he alterations at a ally cost the colony £60,000 ; and against that cost estimated by your oommittee at £16,000, the bridge lands, which had been valued and built the wharf as required, but did not raise at £54,000, would accrue to the Government. the floor of the bridge, and the Government did He believed that if the bridge was declared not ask Parliament to make further grants of free at the present time the value of those lands land." would be greatly enhanced-even to double The report contained, also, the following their present value-in a few years, with recommendations :- judicious handling; and that the whole amount, or at any rate the greater portion of the debt, "Your committee, therefore, recommend that the above £1fl,OOO, additional cost of the bridge would be liquidated by their sale. He would entailed by the alterations suggested by the Gov­ point out that the Corporation were not, on the ernment, and the cost of the free wharf should present occasion, suing the House in foJ•ma be repaid to the Corporation. pauper-ts; but they were, on the contrary, quite willing to stick to their bargain, provided "7. The committee .further recommend:- they obtained from the Government the "That afte;' deducting the amount paid to the moiety due to them. To show the House Corporation under ' Tke Brisbane TVater­ that the statement he had just made was cor­ way A et,' and the value of the lands rect, he might mention that the bridge at the granted under 'Tke Brisbane Drainage Act' present time, with its tolls, was paying the Cor­ from the amount received for lands sold poration well, and was beginning to eshblish under 'Tke Parliamentary Buildings A.ct,' a sinking fund which would, in time, wipe (£27,84.6 !Os.) half of the balance be paid, out the whole liability. The expenses were with interest at the rate of fi"Ve per cent., to the petitioners." £6,062 10s., for interest ; collecting, and con­ tingencies, £937 10s.; in all, £7,000 per He had abstracted those recommendations, annum; and during the months of July which he thought should be before the House and August last the tolls amounted to £604 when considering the Bill; and it would be and £680 respectively ; in all, the bridge seen from them, that the Corporation were was producing from tolls alc,ne, £8,000ayear, entitled to a moiety of the money received taking the average receipts as those of July for lands sold under the Parliamentary and August. Tiuildings Act, which would amount to Mr. GRooM: August was the Exhibition £13,923, amounting with the foregoing month. £16,0!,0 to nearly £30,000. In addition THE CoLoNIAL TREASURER : In the month to those two sums, there was the outlay of September the receipts were within a incurred by the Corporation in making fraction of £600, and even that covered the the alterations in the bridge desired by Gov­ interest on the cost of construction. At any ernment, and altogether the report recom­ rate, he produced those figures to show that mended that they were justly en1itled to the Corporation were not bringing forward £40,198, which was due to them, with the matter from necessity, and that it was interest, at the rate of five per cent., added. not from any wish expressed on the part of He would again remark that that was not the Corporation that the Government were the report of a committee favorable to the bringing forward the present Bill ; they claims of the Corporation, but that it was a merely brought it forward on behalf of the report drawn up in direct opposition to the people settled in the southern and south­ wishes of the chairman. Now, the amount of eastern districts of the colony who had bridge lands handed over to the Corporation, occasion to use the bridge, and on whom out of which the cost of construction was the tolls charged were a great burden. It was expected to be defrayed, had been va'ued at not from any feeling in favor of the Corpora­ £54,000. It might be said that that valuation tion that they had introduced the Bill, but was excessive, and that the amount was not to maintain the principle which they had one that could at the present time be obtained. already affirmed in the· case of bridges con­ Assuming, however, that it was £40,000, the structed by them and those about to be con­ Corporation would be entitled to an endow­ structed atRockhampton and Mackay. Itwas ment when those lands were sold, amounting in view of those bridges that the Government to £20,000, which, with the items he had deemed it desirable, while they could do so mentioned before, would bring the Govern- without loss, to take over the Victoria Bridge. V-ictoria Bridge Bill. [17 OctoBER.] Victoria Bridge Bill. 987

He thought that it was a satisfactory thing, copy of certain resolutions o£ the Legislative financially speaking, that the bridge was not Assembly upon the subject of the Victoria Bridge, entailing a loss on the municipality at the and inquiring upon what terms the Corporation present time ; because he knew that, if he will be prepared to part with their interest in the went to that House to ask it to release the bridge and bridge lands to the Government 1\'Iunicipality of Brisbane from an amount of ! on condition of the bridge being thereafter free. lo~s, he should not meet with that support In reply thereto, I have the honor to acquaint which he now hoped to receive. As he had you that the letter has been carefully. considered by this Council, and I am authorised to submit already said, he wished honorable members the following for the co11sideration of the Gov· to entirely separate the present question from ernment :- the Brisbane Municipality; it was not intro· " 1st. That the Government become liable for the duced on their account, but they were payment of the debentures issue cl by the Corpora· parties to the work, and therefore they tion under ' The Brisbane Bridge Debentnre must be introduced more or less in dis­ Act,' amounting to £121,250 and the interest cussing the Bill. It was introduced in accruing therecm. the interest of persons residing beyond the " 2nd. That the Government undertake that municipality-those per~ons in the southern no claim shall be made upon the city rates or and south-eastern distvcts-who had to use revenues for or ii1 respect of such debentures or the bridge in order to communicate with the such interest. metropolis. The Bill might have been made "3rd. That the Government satisfy all the a mucll more simple measure, but for com­ provisions of ' Tlte Brisbane Brid_qe Act.' plications between the Corporation and the " I would draw your attention to the fact that the Council being cognisant of the advantage of a Bank of Queensland. In the first place, Free Bridge to the city, forego a claim against the the lands which were handed over to the bridge now amounting to over £20,000, eash Corporation for the purpose of paying the aclvanced. cost of construction had, together with the "I have, &c., city rates, been mortgaged to secure payment "J.AJIIES SWAN, of £121,250, which was represented by de­ · "Mayor. bentures, and was held by various persons in "To the Honorable the Colonial Treasurer, Great Britain ; and it would be necessary to " Queensland." arrange for the redemption of those bonds in He read that letter to show that the Corpora· 1891, and to offer a Government guarantee tion were cognisant of the proceedin~;s that for such ,.edemption with accruing interest. bad been taken; and that, whilst they had But, on investigation, it had been found not in any way solicited the Government to that before the mortgagees would surren­ take action, they were still prepared, in view der their security, the capiLal sum must of a free bridge, to hm.~d over the lands be provided for ; and the Bill before the which they had received to defray the cost of House authorised the Treasurer to deposit construction, to forego the £10,000 he had that sum, namely, £120,945, in the hands mentioned, and also the land endowment, of two commissioners, who would buy the which, under the Municipalities Act, would bonds at nominal value or retain the money have come to them. The fourth clause of the until the bonds were matured, and he under­ Bill contained the principle that the Governor stood that if one bondholder objected, this in Council mi~ht guarantee the payment of course would have to be pursued. The Bill the debt, and suggested the three following appeared a very large one, but the greater part modes by which the liability on account of of it was confined to the preamble, which was the bridge might be liquidated :- a matter of recital of the agreements between " (1.) Upon the execution by the said bank the Bank of Queensland and the Brisbane of a release of the said several mortgages Corporation, and also the debenture holders. and the lands comprised therein by The principle of the measure was contained Order in Council to guarantee the due in ten clauses, which were very simple in payment of the principal and interest their character. He might mention that, secured by the said several mortgages when a resolution on the subject was passed and by the said debentures by that House last session, his predecessor in "(2.) Upon the execution by the said bank office communicated with the Municipal of such release as last aforesaid to Council, with the object of learning if they authorise the Colonial Treasurer to pay had any suggestions to make in the matter, from moneys standing to the credit of and the following reply was received, on the Public Account a stnu not exceeding one hundred and twenty thousand nine which the present Bill was initiated. He hundred and forty-five pounds to two mentioned that, as he had not shown that the commissioners of whom one shall be Corporation had expressed their desire in any nominated by the Governm· in Council way that the Government should take over a11d the other by the said bank and the lands:- who shall hold the same upon trust for "Municipal Council Chambers, the due payment of the moneys secured " Tovn1 Hall, Brisbane, by the said debentures and the interest " 7th September, 1875. thereon under and subject to such "SrR conditions as may be agreed upon by "r'have the honor to acknowledge the receipt the Governor in Cmmcil and the said of your letter o£ yesterday's date, forwarding bank 988 Piotm•ict Bridge Bill•. [ASSEMBLY.] Victoria Bridge Bill.

" (3.) To authorise the Colonial Treasurer to fail to convince him. that it was not a measure pay from moneys standing to the credit that should have been introduced by a mem­ of the Public Account a sum not ber of the Government, but one that should exceeding one hundred and twenty­ have been brought in by a private member, thousa'nd nine hundred and forty five in the same way as the hono~able m.e~?er pounds to the credit of a special account for Kennedy had introduced .h1s .Propos1hon to be called ' The Briobane Bridge Account' which shall be opened in the for a bridge across the Burdekm R.1ver. There books of the Treasury for that purpoee vrere several metropolitan members on the and shall be credited with all interest Government side of the House who had been which mav from time to time accrue dumb during the last few ni~hts, when far thereon or" on any part thereof." wider measures had been d1scussed, and The commissioners would act as intermediate who, he presumed, ha? reserved the~­ parties between the Government who paid selves until the present Bill was brought m. and the mortgagees who released, pending When they came to some petty work, how­ the retirement of the debentures. That ever necessary it might be, sueh as the course was necessary, because one debenture Brisbane Bridge, then were aroused the holder might, unless he thought the Corpora­ sympathies of those bonorable members; but tion held the security, object to the matt~r when they were consid~ring a measur~ that being accomplished as sui!>"gested. He d1d would ruin a large and 1mportant class m the not intend to take up the tlm.e of the House colony then those honorable members were dumb.' He thought the introduction of a at any great length; he had ~o dou~t hon_or­ ahle members had given the1r cons1deratwn Bill to authorise tlie payment of £120,000-a to the matter, as the Bill had been on the sum of money that would be su~cient t<;> make table for a considerable time, and had arrived miles and miles of cheap ra1lway-m the at a conclusion, one way or another, on the present depressed state of . the colony was subject. He would only refer them. to the a piece of indecency. Was 1t, he would ask, debate of last session, which showed the for such a measure that the honorable unanimity of feeling which then existed a~ to Treasurer had reserved his long speeches? the desirability of the Goveriim.ent takmg He denied that with railways coming in from the bridge. He had endeavored to show the interior into the heart of the city that the that the expense of taking the bridge over present Bill was anything but a Brisbane would be to a considerable degree met by the measure ; the bridge was a further proof of assets and that the disbursement would be mismanagement on the part of those who met to a great extent by what was justly could not manage their own affairs ; it was due to the Corporation, according to the re­ a bridge worth, at the outside, £60,000, and port of the select committee of last ses~ion. yet now the House was ask~d to pay £120,000 The Government desired to see the bridge for it. He thought the time was unfit for free, for the sake of the gre!lt benefit it would the introduction of such a measure; but, above be to the whole comm.umty. It was not all it was a matter which should have been Brisbane they considered, although he had br~ught forward by a private m.embe~. The no doubt it would be said that it was another metropolis was fully represented m that gift to the Brisbane people. House, and, therefore, the Bi.ll sho11ld have Mr. WALSH: Hear, hear. been introduced in a pnvate manner, The CoLONIAL TREASURER had no doubt by a private member, on a ~rivate that the honorable member for the W an·ego business day. When the sympath1es of would dilate in his usual manner upon the honorable members on his side of the injustice that the people of Brisbane sought House were asked for, it should be when the to impose upon the country ; but he could question before them was a wide one. appeal to wider sympathies than those of the Within the last few days the eountry must, honorable member-to those of honorable he thought, have resounded with the doom members who objected to have the hig~wa:J:s pronounced by the act of the present Govern­ of the colony impeded by tolls. Agam, 1t ment and that was a case in which the was with the knowledge of the great boon symp~thies of honorable members might that would be conferred upon settlers and reasonablv have been arrested; but now, when others residing in the southern and sou.th­ they were· dealing with a purely local measure, eastern districts that the Government, actmg the Government sought the sympathies of those very honorable member8 who had appealed upon the resolution of that ~ouse, which _was so substantially affirmed durmg ~he prevwus to them in vain. He thought the Govern­ session, had been induced to brmg forward ment might have postponed the Bill until the the present Bill. He begged to move- tail end of the session-until those grave measures which were occupying the attention That the Bill be now reacl a second time. of the House had been disposed of, and not Mr. DE SATGE said the honorable member have introduced it in the manner they had who had just sat down had appealed to the done. After all, it was part of a system of l?g· wider sympathies of honorable members, and rolling ; he had come to that concl.usiOn he had no doubt that the members of the because he noticed that when the motiOn of Opposition would give him some ; but even the honorable member for Kenned:y, for .the the brilliant manner in which the honorable Burdekin Bridge, was under cons1derat.10n, jientlet)lan had introduced the Bill could not the Government and their supporters, ~ a Victoria Bridge Bill. [17 0CTOBEn.J Victorict Bridge Bill. 989 most extraordinary manner, hardly offered the Crown getting up and telling them that any opposition, knowing that the present Bill to his knowledge the Crown owed £60,000 to would be coming on during the session. the Corporation of Brisbane. It was per­ That, also, was the reason why such large fectly disgraceful on the part of any custodian sums had been put down for the Fitzroy and of the public purse to make any such admis­ Pioneer bridges ; for those districts had never sion. Let the members for Brisbane, those met with the sympathies of the Government faithful supporters of the Government, get up before-never until they wanted a sum of and make these claims, but not a Minister of £120,000 to give to the people of Brisbane the Crown. The reason why he (Mr. Walsh) a free bridge-and that, too, in the most moved that the House should now adjourn depressed times that had been known in was, that on the 6th of October, he moved for the colony for the last ten or twelve years. very important returns, which had not yet On the question being put-That the Bill been furnisl1ed. They were returns showing be read a second time, the correspondence that passed between the Mr. W ALBH said, that he should move the Corporation and the Government on the adjournment of the House, if the Government question before the House, and they dated could not find any one of their supporters to back from the beginning of the erection say a word in favor of the Bill-not even the of the bridge. If this return had been honorable member the Mayor of the city ; honestly supplied, he would have been under the circumstances, the Government able to show that the Corporation abso­ should either withdraw the measure or ad­ lutely refused to be interfered with in journ the House. He confessed, for his part, the construction ; that the Ministry of the that he wanted to see a far better case made day were prepared to make the bridge ; out than had been made out by the honorable that estimates were given, one for £20,000, the Treasurer, before he could give his sup­ and another for £30,000 ; that when the port tu the Bill; and he must say, in regard Government offered to do the work, the re­ to the honorable member's speech, that as presentative of the city of Brisbane, as the custodian of the public purse, he should have correspondence asked for and the annals been the very la~t to have made the statement of Parliament would show, requested the that the Government were indebted to the Ministry to mind their own business, and Corporation to the extent of £60,000. The said the Corporation of Brisbane could do honorable gentleman should have closed his their own work, and did not want any pockets and have defied the Corporation to assistance. He could show that the prove that they had a claim. That was what the Government were prepared to build the honorable gentleman should have done, and bridge, and that the Corporation pro­ not have told a tale which would probably be tested against the Colonial Secretary of at the expense of the tax-payers of the colony. the day, Mr. Herbert, interfering. Mr. He never saw such a scene in his life. Herbert endeavored to carry on a correspon­ Where was the Mayor of Brisbane that he dence showing that the Corporation were did not get up and show the claim of the wrong and that the Government would put Corporation to this mighty sum of money? them right, but they were snubbed all They seemed to have arrived at that stage of through the correspondence. If these corruption that money, money, was all the returns could be produced, he was sure Corporation thought of, asked, or voted honorable members would see the ques­ for their supporters--those who kept them tion in a different light. But they were in power. He did not hesitate to say as refused this altogether, although the Gov­ much ; he did not charge the Mayor of the ernment might have placed them upon the city with being actuated by that feeling table of the House within twelve hours of personally, but his constituents were; and he their being asked for. It was, to use a was compelled by his constituents to ~it there word that had been employed by the At­ and vote for the Government until this bridge torney-General, indecent to introduce the Bill question was passed ; and he had not the prior to laying the correspondence on the least doubt that as soon as this was over, he table of the House. Those members who would prove one of the most independent were not old colonists, and who wanted to members of the House, and he (Mr. Walsh) know what were the claims of the people of should be very glad to see it. It was a new the country, should procure and study this state of things, however, for a Minister of correspondence so improperly withheld. N at­ the Crown to try and prove that the Crown withstanding this, the Colonial Treasurer owed £60,000 to a corporation. It showed had the eourage, and he might also say want to what a depth of corruption they had sunk; of delicacy, to move the second reading of it was unheard of, and disgraceful. He once the Bill ; and not only that, but to state, heard a Minister of the Crown on the top of with all the authority of a Minister of the a coach boast that he had compelled. the Crown, that the Crown was indebted £60,000 Government of that day to pay a little more to the Corporation of Brisbane. He (Mr. money than they needed for resuming W alsh) did -not believe it ; he did not believe for railway purposes ; that was bad enough, the city had been so badly represented and probably there was a little badinage in for the last twelve years that they could have the remark ; but here they had a Minister of allowed such a claim to remain in abeyance, 990 Victoria Bridge Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] 7lictoria Bridge Bill. without at any rate making an application support of the Government for one reason for its settlement. He was a good deal only. Another thing he would like to point struck with the levity of the Colonial Trea­ out to honorable members was, that there was surer in introducing the motion. That was nothing in the Bill that he could see to pre­ another reason for adjourning the House. vent the Corporation, after the Government When the people's pocket was to be touched had paid the £120,000, from re-imposing the to the extent of £120,000, the Colonial Trea­ tolls. He thought there was a little wiliness surer should at any rate perform hi~ duty in that. Ostensibly this actionl was taken to with a grave face, and not with a levity of relieve the great travelling public from the manner quite unbecoming of the occasion. irksomeness of paying tolls. But there was If the honorable member for South Brisbane nothing in the Bill to prevent the Corpora­ had brought in this measure, he would have tion, when the bridge was handed back to done it with all the seriousness he could the Government, from demanding tolls. command with the know ledge that he was The PREMIER : Look at clause 3. not justified in asking for the money; and Mr. W ALSH said he had looked at clause 3, when one of the custodians ofthe public purse and it was just what he thought :- asked for it, he (Mr. W alsh) demanded that " 3. Upon such assignment and transfer being something a little more serious than the made as aforesaid the bridge and its appurtenan­ manner assumed by the Colonial Treasurer ces and all the materials thereof and the approaches should be depicted in conducting the busi­ thereto shall vest in Her Majesty and all tolls ness. The honorable gentleman might upon the said bridge shall thenceforth cease and laugh, but taxing the ratepayers of the be determined." colony to the extent of £120,000 for a He had looked also at clause 8, which profitless, gaudy, and unnecessary piece of said:- work that could have been done for £30,000, " 8. It shall be lawful for the Governor in and would have been satisfactory to the Council at any time after the said bridge and the people during their lifetime, was no laughing said lands shall have become vested in Her matter. There were many other defects in Majesty by proclamation to transfer the said the Bill, all of which were additional reasons bridge with its appurtenances and the approaches why the House ought to adjourn. If they thereto to and vest the same in the said Munici· were to go into the question, it would be pal Council. And thereupon the said Council simply a recommencement of that gross shall become and be charged with the care con· system of log-rolling that would bring the struction and management of the said bridge." country to a state of ruin, ay, and a state of Did not that restore to the Council the right ins<:Jlvency again. When he said again, he of imposing tolls P spoke from actual knowledge. How many Mr. KINGS FORD : No, certainly not. members on that side of the House had been Mr. W ALSH said he must retain his own bound to the Government during this session construction of the Bill. The bridge abso­ by the fact that the Government initiated and lutely became again the property of the introduced this measure. To how many had Council, which would have been twice paid been given a kind of secret, implied promise for it. They would have the same rights as that if they voted for the bridge they would before, and it was not likely they would allow get something? The railway extravagance the "Government to step in and say they was bound up with the extravagance of the should not again charge tolls. He threw bridge. The honorable member for Wide this out as an intimation to honorable mem­ Bay was compelled to vote for tlte bridge bers that if the Bill went into committee because he wished for a similar piece of ex­ they should look sharply after this part of it, travagance over the Mary. knowing that the same spirit which animated Mr. BAILEY: No, no. I beg to contradict the Council when they made the bridge to that statement. get a large revenue out of it, would animate Mr. W ALSH said he would again urge the them again the moment they got the bridge adjournment of the House. They were not back once more into their hands. The old in possession of the information-they animosity that had existed from the beginning were bound to have information that would between North and South Brisbane would enlighten members on both sides on the real necessitate that the tolls should be re-im­ question at issue. It had been especially posed. intended by the Government to keep them in Mr. BAILEY said he was very much dis­ the dark. If he thought a reasonable sum of posed to vote for the honorable member for money for the bridge .would put a stop to Warrego, agreeing with him that there ought that log-rolling system, and would open the to be a great deal more information given to mouths of members on the other side who the House before members were asked to vote were unable to express their opinions for the second reading of the Bill. He was on important matters connected with the not, however, desirous to vote against the welfare of the colony, but who could do Bill, being as desirous as anyone to see the nothing else until the bridge question main arteries, so to speak, of' the colony open was settled, he would vote for it, and it would and free. He objected most strongly to any­ be money well spent in relieving the consti­ thing like a toll system, and it was a disgrace tuencies who forced upon their members to a city like Brisbane that there should be a Victoria Bridge Bill, [17 OCTOBER.] Victoria Bridge Bill. 991 toll between its northern and southern por­ and as he had only had it in his hand for an tion. But he had to Learn a great many hour, he required something more to convince things before he saw the propriety of the him than what he had heard. total expense of this bridge being thrown Mr. GRooM said no doubt the Colonial upon the country. The assets, he believed, Treasurer had not made out so strong a case were merely some small portions of land. as ought, to have been made out before the Why did not wealthy and populous North country was asked to undertake the payment Brisbane bear something of the expense? of £120,000. He was not in the House He was not surprised that the Colonial when the Brisbane Bridge Bill was passed, Treasurer introduced the Bill with a certain but he was there in 1864, when the then amount of levity; gravity would have ill Secretary for Works (Mr. Macalister) moved become him. The honorable gentleman knew for the appointment of a Select Committee he represented Brisbane quite as much as to inquire into the mode of construction of the country generally, and it was well known the Brisbane bridge. When the honorable that the Ministry, as a body, represented member for \Varrego referred to this, he Brisbane peculiarly, and, therefore, had such (Mr. Groom) turned to "Hansard" to re· works as this under their special care. The fresh his memory, and he could very well statement made by the honorable member for understand that the Colonial Secretary of W arrego seemed a very plausible one, al­ the day (Mr. Herbert) did undertake to con· though generally he rather mistrusted the struct a bridge for the city of Brisbane, honorable member. On this occasion, how­ and that the offer was indignantly spurned. e>er, he gave him a certain amount of credence, The member for North Brisbane at that and no doubt his statements were to a certain time (Mr. Pugh) informed the House that extent correct. He believed ne>ertheless, there were three designs for the construction the honorable member would require no of the bridge. He (Mr. Groom) referred to reason at all for opposing the bridge, if he this matter because this. was the first time thought it would be for the benefit of·any the House ha 1 had the opportunity of speak­ particular set of people. The honorable ing about the bridge, and as it was to cost member was in the habit of opposing every­ £120,000, they should have some substantial thing that was for the benefit of anybody reasons for the outlay. vVhen some excep­ generally, and. he had no doubt when he tion was taken to the construction of the came to Wide Bay and his beloved Mary­ bridge, Mr. Pugh said:- borough, he would 0ppose everything to the " In accepting the design which was submitted bitter end. to the Government for their approval, the Cor· Mr. AMHL'RST said that by taking the poration merely acted for the best, inasmuch as third and eighth clauses, it would be seen that that design was accompanied by tenders, which as long as the bridge was vested in Her showed that the bridge conld be built for a sum Majesty she could not raise tolls, but there not exceeding £30,000." was nothing to prevent the Corporation doing The cost ofthe bridge, then, wa~ to be £30,000; so when they got it back. The scheme was a and yet, according to the Bill, they were snare, a trap, and a delusion got up by the asked to vote £120,000 ; and he must con­ present Government to gratify their sup­ tend that the country ought to be in possession portrrs. He was ashamed that the Bill had of some information why the cost had risen been brought in, and that the Premier had so much from the first estimate. Some good tried to hoodwink and blind people. No one reasons could, no doubt, be given. He re· seemed to know anything about the matter ; membered a deputation coming down from no one knew what the revenue of the land Ipswich to inform the Colonial Secretary was. Some time ago they were told that the that if the Brisbane bridge was erected bridge was to cost the country only £25,000. as it was proposed, large ships, like the He should oppose the Bill tooth and nail for "Great Eastern," would never be able to go up the rest of the session. to Ipswich; and it was in consequence of the Mr. FooTE said he had no intention at representations made to the Colonial Secre­ this particular time of going into the merits tary that the designs were altered by the of the Bill, but as the member for \Varrego Corporation. The Colonial Treasurer had insisted that this was a party question brought told the House nothing about this-nothing forward by the Government, he (Mr. about the origin and construction of the Foote) begged to say that he held himself at bridge-information which the House cer­ liberty to vote in any way he chose, and he tainly ought to have. did not regard the Bill at all in the light of Mr. WALSH: Take the correspondence. a party question. He trusted the House Mr. GaooM said the col'l'espondence moved would not deal with it in that light, but upon for by the honorable member migltt show all its own merits; and, whether the measure this, but on the other hand, perhaps, it would was carried or not, he trusted it would be not. He hoped some honorable member dealt with upon the real merits of the case. would give the House every information. For himself, he had not read the Bill, and The Mayor of Brisbane, no doubt, had made hoped the Government would not pass it to himself sufficiently master of the subject to a second reading at the present time. There supply the House with data in connection was a good deal of close reading in the Bill, with the case. The honorable member for 992 Victoria Bridge Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Victoria Bridge Bill.

Warrego went a little too far when he said honorable inember for W arrego, that it was there were members on the Government side an extraordinary thing for the honorable the of the House who would vote for this bridge Treasurer to state that the Government were for certain money considerations for their indebted to the Corporation in the sum of own constituencies. Members ought not to £60,000. In what way were they indebted to be charged in that way. They gave the hon­ that amount? He could very well understand orable member himself credit for a certain the spoliation Act, as it was called, that was amount of independence, aud he might, in introduced, when the whole of the lands within return, give them the same credit on his the municipality were taken to pay for the cost part. The Ministry wanted, for some reason of the building in which they were no.w or other, to retain the fathering of the Bill; seated. He could understand that at that time but it was not a party question, and he was a general outcry was raised in connection not sure that it was necessary the Bill should with that Act, but it was passed. Parliament be brought in by the Government because it in its wisdom thought it was a fair obligation made an inroad upon the Consolidated Reve­ on the part of the metropolis-that if the nue. What he now said was that, before the metropolis required to be embellished with Bill was read a second time, there should be such splendid buildings, portions of the supplied ample information why the cost had unsold lands should be sold to pay for their jump~d up from £30,000 to £120,000. The construction. That was affirmed; it might Colomal Treasurer stated that the tolls not be considered just at the present day, and amounted to £8,000 a-year, and that there it was scarcely a fair basis to go upon ; was a sinking fund being formed which but he should like to know how it could be would wipe out the debt altogether. If that proved to the satisfaction of the House that was the case, there was no necessity for the the Government were indebted to the Cor­ interference of the House at all. As far as poration of Brisbane £60,000; because if the the value of the bridge lands were concerned, Government did owe the Corporation that in 1864, Mr. Blakeney, one of the members amount, and the lands at South Brisbane for North Brisbane, estimated them at were to realise £50,000, then the whole thing, £20,000, and now they were said to be worth they might say, went to the wmd ; because, £54,000, and no doubt the increase in the according to the statement of the honorable value of property had been. sufficiently rapid the Treasurer, when the bridge was declared to account for the difference; but one of the free, land in South Brisbane would imme­ chief points he should like noticed was, diately rise in value. Like the honorable that if the Government were going to esta­ member for Wide Bay, he would not give a blish the principle of taking over the debt of pledge to vote for or against the Bill; and this particular bridge, it might be asked why he thought if the honorable member for the principle should not at once be extended \Varrego would withdraw his motion for to all corporations. Why should not all cor­ adjournment, the matter could be deferred porations be relieved of all their debts, and for a short time to enable those who were so begin on a fresh basis everywhere? interested in it-and particularly the repre­ And whatever debts they contracted after sentatives of B'risbane-to supply the House the consolidation-after paying off their with the origin of this bridge, and why its previous debts-they should liquidate. At cJst h'lttl. increased from the £30,000 men­ present, when they were called upon to pay tioned by Mr. Pugh in 1864, to £120,000. their debts, some did so most religiously, but Those were Mr. Pugh's words :- others did not pay one shilling of the large "In accepting the design which was submitted amount they borrowed from the Govern­ to the Government for their approval, the Cor­ ment. He found that the total liabilities of poration merely acted for the best, inasmuch as the corporations of the colony at the present that design was accompanied by tenders, which time amounted to something like £72,000, showed that the bridge could be built for a sum and there were some five or six: which not exceeding £30,000." owed thousands of pounds, and did not Mr. BE.A.TTIE : That is a mistake. even pay the interest, much less any­ Mr. GRoOM said the honorable membet• thing towards the principal. He thought for Fortitude Valley said that was a mistake, something should be done in reference but he (Mr. Groom) was only reading the to those cases. Either the principle should words of Mr. Pugh, who was then member be applied as a general one, and all cor­ for North Brisbane. He might state that porations should be relieved from their the late Mr. Blakeney, who was then a mem­ liabilities and start afresh, or they should be ber of the House, frequently interrupted the allowed to liquidate their liabilities in the Colonial Secretary of the day, and provoked best way they could. There were seventeen him into making this rather sharp retort.- corporations in the colony, which were pretty well represented by members in that House, "Referring to what had been said about pick­ and before they were called upon to sanction ings, he believed that the contractor and engineer would make from £30,000 to £40,000 out of the taking over a liability of £120,000, some job, unless steps were taken to prevent them." better grounds should be shown than had been shown by the honorable the Colonial That, of course, proved it was a mistake, and Treasurer. He quite agreed with the all these things went to show that they Ji"ictoria Bridge Bill. [17 OCTOBER.] Victoria Bridge Bil!. 998 should be supplied with reliable information try could have put a great deal of pressure and data to satisfy them that there was on the Corporation, especially if they were a really good case to justify honorable mem­ borrowers, and they agreed to those altera­ bers in voting for the second reading of the tions. It was in consequence of 1 he altera­ :Bill. He had no doubt the Mayor of Bris­ tions having been acceded to that the whole bane had made himself sufficiently master of of tl1e difficulties connected with the bridge, all the facts of the Pasc to place them before arose. The time lost through those altera­ the House, but, perhaps, he had been waiting tions brought the Corporation into the severe to hear what honorable members had to say crisis of 1866 ; and the Bank of Queensland, before doing so. He (Mr. Groom) would not which was supplying the contractor with pledge himself to vote either one way or money, was obliged to succumb to the pres­ the other, until sufficient data was laid before sure of circumstances, and was unable t<> the House. find any more money. The consequence Mr. WALSII said, with the permission of was, the whole thing was brought to a stand­ the House, he would withdraw his motion, on still; and further than that, the interest was the understanding that the debate be adjourned going on, the plant of the ::on tractors had to until they l1ad placed before them the be sold, nnd there was a stoppnge in every correspondence the House had ordered. way. 'l'his raised the co8t of the bridge up The CoLONIAL :SE: RETARYsaidhis honorable to over £110,000, bnt the Corporation were colleague, in introducing this measure, stated willing to forego £21,000 of it ; and he that he thought honorable members were so thought, with regard to the remark which well conversant with the first part of the fell from one honorable member, that North transactions connected. with the alteration of Brisbane was not inclined iO do anything in the bridge as to render it unnecessary for him the matter-that this was a very fair contri­ to enter at aoy length into a discussion of bution to the bridge, the Government having that question, which would have the effect of interfered in its construction at the time they raising np old sores. There was no doubt did, and having brought about the VPry that the very mention of that matter would serious consequ~nces which ensued. Be. to some extent raise up the old feeling of cause, he maintained, that if the bridge had jealousy which existed at one time between been allo1Yed to go on towards comple­ Ipswich and Brisbane ; and he thought the tion under the original contract, something House was well acquainted with those like £60,000would have been sufficient to com• circumstances, as the matter was laid before plete it. 'lhey had evidence to that effect the House last session, and a 1·eport was from Mr. J ones, the bridge engineer-that it brought up from the committee appointed to would not ha¥e cost more than £60,000 in the inquire into this question, as well as some way they intended to complete it. He might others connected with the Corporation of mention that the original design was not Brisbane. As, however, some honorable strictly adhered to by the Corporation, but members did not seem thoroughly to under­ this portion that the Government asked to stand the matter, he should very shortly have altered was the cause of the whole detail the main points of the arrangement. of the delay, and of the whole of the enor­ The contract was not, as stated by the horror­ mous expense that had been incurred. It able member for Toowoomba, for £30,000. had also been stated by his honorable colleague It was a very much larger sum-he thought that it was not as if it were the Corporation over £50,000. only that this Bill would benefit. There was no An HoNORABLE MEMBER : £52,000. doubt it would be a great boon to the citizens The CoLoNIAL SllCRETA.RY said £52,000, he of Brisbane, but it would also be a gre'lt boon thought, was the amount; and after the to many people outside. With regard to the Corporation had proceeded some length with financial Yiew of the matter, in the evidence the work, it was discovered by the people of taken before the Select Committee, it appeared Ipswich tha\ it would be impossible to take that the rates for the !1alf-year just preceding sea-going Yessels up to Ipswich through the amo1:nted to £3,120, and the cost of levying bridge ; and they insisted ou having the the tolls and other expenses amounted to swing made very much wider. and this en­ about £500, and the total annual interest was tailed an actual increase in the expense of £6,000, thus leaving a yery small loss some £16,000. This was only a portion of the at that time on the whole transaction. actual expense incurred by the Corporation. There was no doubt that as population in­ He might also mention that two or three creased the tolls would increase, and he under­ members of the Ministry at that time repre­ stood his honorable friend to say the bridge sented Ipswich and "\Vest Moreton-and they was paying more than tht> illterest now. It requested the Municipal Council of Brisbane would, therefore, be no loss to the Corporation to malre some alterations in the design, and to keep it on as it was, but he thought it he believed they were asked to do so would be a Tdry unjust thing to the citizens in such a hurried manner that they had of Brisbane, and residents in all parts of the not time to bring the matter before the colony who had to travel over that bridge, Corporation, and the Mayor and one of the and who contributed to the general taxation aldermen took upon themselves to do what at the rate they did, to have to pay the tolls the :Ministry required. No doubt the ].\finis· each time they crossed it. He thought on 4D 994 Victoria Bridge Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] "Victoria B1•iilge Bill. that ground they were entitled to considera­ the second reading of the Bill or not, but he tion. It was one of the main nutlets of the shoulJ certainly oppose it in committee as it colony, and for that reason, if any bridge at present stood ; and he thought any member ought to be free, it was the bridge over the who had the good of the country at heart Brisbane river. There was no doubt that would see it was utterly unfair to call upon if the Corporation had not been interfered the whole country to pay for the gross mis­ with, the cost of the bridge would be takes of the Corporation of Br1sbane, for now nearly liquidated bv the land that that was what the proposal of the Govern­ had heen givC'n to them, and they would be ment amounted to. And it was evident enabled to make it a free bridge. But from the manner in which it had been sup­ as the Government had interfered with ported by the honorablo the Treasurer and them, they should take the matter ttp, and the honorable the Colonial Secretarv that it place them in the same position they would was about the only Bill brought forward this have been in if they had n:Jt been interfered session they really had their hearts in. They with. He considered that was a just and were Brisbane to the backbone, and all the reason~.ble thing to ask. It had been stated rest of the colony was nothing at all. There that this Bill should not have been brought in had never been so much energy thrown by by the Government; but he thought after the those two honorable members into any Bill resolution the House came to last. session, it this session as into this measure to make was the duty of the Go1ernment to put the this bridge free and the property of the Gov­ matter in some way before the House ; and ernment, and then hand it back to the Cor­ he would point out that this was not an poration:__a consummation which he could ordinary question that could be dealt with by not !'lee would be at all desirable. If the a private member. He did not think the!'e country was called upon to pay for this was a private member who would undertake bridge through the nose, it should be the it. It was a measure that specially required property of the country for ever ; at all to be dealt with by the Government, whether events, they should not hand it back to the this Government or any other Government, Corporation, to do as they pleased with because they had to make overtures, and afterwards. The honorable the Treasurer, in ascertain the 1iews of the debenture holders; proposing the second rJading of the Bill, and he said any private person applying admitted that the Corporation had evinced a for that information w0uld scarcely get what want of foresight and ordinary vigilance, and he wanted. The honorable member for vVest yet, by some extraordinary method of rea­ :i\foreton had mentioned that he had only had soning, he came to the conclusion that the the Bill for half or three-quarters of an hour; Corporation were immaculate, and the Govern­ but it had been in the hands of honorable ment owed 6em £'30,000. He (Mr. Palmer) members fora fortnight or three weeks,-since had listened attentively to the various debates it had been read a first time. He had no on the subject, and he never remembered hear­ doubt it had been sent with the honorable ing before of the Government owing the member's papers, but it could scarcely be Curporation £60,000, and he could not expected that members could read all the imagine in what way such a conclusion could papers sent to them. However, the Govern­ possibly be arrived at. But he thought, in ment did not wish to press it until fair time bringing fnrward a measure of this sort, the was given for its consideratwn, and they were honorable the Treasurer was bound to tell quite willing to agree to the adjournment of the House what was the 1alue of the bridge the debate. lands. l\fr. P AMiER said when the honorable the The CoLONIAL TREASURER : By the last Colonial Secretary got up, he said he was resolution-£54,000. going to tell the House all about the matter, Mr. PALMER said, then he should have told but he had quite omitted to mention that the the House who appraised them. Government discovered, after the Corporation The CoLONIAL TREASURER : It was men­ had begun the bridge, that they were working tioned in the debate last session who on quite a different plan from that which the appraised them. Government had approved of. He forgot to Mr. PAL>IER said that he did not re­ mention that part of it. member the debates of last session, and he The CoLONIAL SECRETARY: I saicl it was should like to have more than one appraiser' not the plan agreed upon. of those lands, and he thought the Govern­ Mr. PAL:llER said he did not think the ment were trying to mislead the House by honorable member mentioned that the Cor­ stating the value by one appmiser. He poration were working on a plan which could state that in a eommittee of the House, the Government had ne1er approved of, and within the last week or ten days, he heard which they led the Government to suppose three different witnesses, all gentlemen sup­ had been approved of. He (M:r. Palmer) posed to be very good judges of land in thought he, the Colonial Secretary, might Brisbane, aml their values had differecl as have stated that fact, for no doubt he knew much as fifty per cent. in town property­ of it. He thought it was very necessary quite as much as fifty per cent., and thirty that this motion should be adjourned. per cent. in many instances ; and he thought He did not say whether he should \"ote for it was very unfair that the House should be [17 OcroBER.] Vidorir( Bridge Bill. 995 given the valuation of any one individual of in the hands of honorable members for along the lands in South Brisbane. \Yhy, he time, he had no doubt that many of them, should have thought that £54,000wouldhave like him~elf, had not even read it. He con­ bought the whole of South Brisbane in a fessed that he had not read the preamble, lump ! There was another thing they should and he hoped he should not be condemned to be informed of; that was, what was the value read it-for it would take a Philadelphia ()fthe bridge-not what it had cost the Cor­ lawyer to understand all the references in it. poration through their blunders-but what The question was one requiring more serious was the actual value of it, for he supposed consideration, and he should vote for the there was hardly a majority in that House who adjournmer.t of the debate. would commit the country to the serious loss :\fr. FRASER said there was only one po:nt <>f paying for the blunders of the Brisbane he should like to refer to before the debate Corporation. If they were impecunious, or was adjourned, and it was this :-That honor­ -commenced an undertaking they could not able members should not go away with the possibly go on with through mismanagement impression that this Bill was exclusively for and quarrelling among themselves, and thus the benefit of the Corporation of Brisbane. ·delayed the construction of the bridge, and If they did so, they would be very much mis­ heaped up interest, and piled up the agony to taken. He had never entertained the opinion the extent they had done, was it at all fair to that the Corporation of Brisbane were justi­ call upon the community at.large to pay for their fied, under any circumstances whatever,. in mistakes? If, as the honorable member for undertaking this piece of work. When he Toowoomba had stated, thev took up the brought the resolutions before the House las~ (:lebts of the Cm·[Joration of Brisbane in that year on which this Bill was based, he stated way, they \'!"ere bound to carry out the sys­ then, as he repsatecl now, that he did tem and take up the debts of every munici­ so in the interests of a large section of the -pality in the colony-there was no half~way community outside the municipality, who house. He had expressed himself in favor of were heavily taxed through the present posi­ purchasing the bridge and making it free, tion of the bridge; and in taking the question but in saying so, he carefully guarded himself into consideration during the interval that against being supposed to vote for paying for might elap~e before the discussion would the blunders of the Brisbane Corporation. come on again, he would impress upon honor­ He thought now it would not be a bad able members the desirability of fairly speculation for the country to purchase looking at the qnesti0n, and considering that the bridge at its value, but beyond it was not a matter which merely affected that he should not be prepared to go in the Corporation of Bri~bane. He had not committee. Then, instead of the informa-· the least sympathy with the Corporation of tion asked for by the honorable member for Brisbane in the matter, but there was a large Warrego, which might easily have been fur­ section of the community who were very nished if the honorable the Treasurer had seriously afteeted by the present position of been at all anxious to furnish it, and which aftflirs. The fact that had been brought would guide the House in some way, all they before the House lhat evening, that the tolls had been favored with, so far as he had heard, on the bridge were largely increasing, and was a letter from the Mayor of Brisbane last that it might become a paying concern to the year. Now, he did not suppose the Mayor Corporation, to his mind was one of the most and Corporation of this year were bound by ssrious aspects of the case, because he be­ the actions of the Mayor and Corporation of lieved that if the Corporation in a short time last year ; and if there had been any corres­ derived considerable revenue from this source, pondence with the 1\fayor and Corporation of they would not consent to the Government this year as to the terms they were willing to taking over the bridge, and there was no accept for the bridge, the House should be provision to compel the Corporation to hand informed of it. It appeared to him that so it over to the Government; so that it might long as Brisbane was concerned, the Ministry become a source of revenue to the Corpora­ were utterly reckless as to what expenditure tion and a heavy burden to an important they rushed into. Where was the money to section of the community. come from? Was it to be recouped after a ::VIr. KrNGSFoRD said he rose to move the while by the sale of land in South Brisbane adjournment of the debate. to the extent of £54,000-a valn'ltion which The SPEAKER : The honorable member he did not Lelieve in one bit? He had no cannot do so at present. doubt, if the Government had to buy the Mr. \YALSH said- if it would conduce to land, it would cost perhaps that; but when it the progress of business, he would withdraw had to be sold to the public, he very much his motion, on the understanding that the <1oubted that it would reach that valuation, or Government would accede to the motion of anything approaching it. He trusted honor­ the honorable n:ember for South Brisbane. able members would take time to consider HoxoR.ABLE ::\fEiiiBERs : Hear, hear. this question before they consented to the second reading of the Bill; for although the )fotion withdrawn accordingly. honorable the Colonial 1'reasurer and the Mr. KINGSFORD moved- Colonial Secretary had stated that it had been T1mt the debate be adjonrnccl. 996 FictoJ•ia Bridge Bi11. [ASSEMBLY.= T'idv.·ia Bridge Bill.

Mr. J\L~cnossA.:s said before the debate street, to fatten upon the earnings of hard was adjourned, he should like to call the worked taxpayers? ·when he brought for­ attention of the House to the difference ward his motion, he was called upon to prove between the action of the Govemment in this the necessity of the bridge-to make out a matter, and their action in another matter of case, and to prove what it would cost. But a somewhat similar character four or five not contented with that-not contented with weeks ago. He sup1)osed they thought that opposing the motion-the Premier, when he this Bill would be allowed to slide by mem­ found he was deficient of facts, created some, bers on their own side of the House, but he and produced a telegram from a person pur­ was happy to see that some members on that porting to be an engineer, stating that thE> side had independence enough not to permit length of the proposed bridge would be 4,050 them to saddle the country with a debt "IYith feet; but he (Mr Macrossan) could now prove which it should not be saddled. If any what he could not prove then, namely, that proof were required by the House or the the total length of the bridge from one high country that the Government at present in bank to the other, was scarcely more than one· power were purely and simply a Queen-street third of the distance stated by the honorable Government, their action on the present gentleman. That telegram was, he believed, occasio:J. vms sufficient to do so. produced by the Premier to prevent his The CoLoNIAL TREASURER: Hear, hear. getting the bridge, and he would ask the Mr. MACROSSA:S said the honorable the House to contrast the action of the Govern­ Colonial Treasurer cried, "hear, hear," and ment generally, of the present Queen street "·ell he might do so, because every word he Ministrv in the one case, with their conduct had spoken, and every action of his, and of in the other. He could prove that the length the honorable Colonial Secretary's, showed of the bridge over the Burdekin would be they were nothing but members of a Queen­ scarcely over one-third of what had been street Miniatry. represented by the Premier. He had also been told on that occasion, by the same honor­ The CoLoNIAL SECRETARY: Stale. able gentleman, that his motion ·might Mr. :M:ACROSSA.N said it was not stale. It go into committee, but that it would would be stale if the actions of the Ministry never come out. He might retort in the· proved otherwise, and it would never be same way on the honorable Treasurer, that repeated; but their action to-night proved his Bill might go iBto committee, hut that beyond doubt that they were nothing else. it would depend upon two or three honorable­ Now that magnanimous c, rporation, which members whether it ever got out ; he was not was so proud that it would not sue in forma certain that it would during the present session. pauperis for the Government to take over the He was certain of one thing-that the Govern­ bridge, what did it go to that House for at ment wou).d never do anything for theNorth. all, if that was not its object? Did the as long as there was a penny to be spent in Government wish to take over the bridge and Brisbane; and he thought the happiest day saddle the country with an expenditure of would be, when the time arrived for the re­ £120,000, or did the country wish it ? It moval of the capital from the little corner of had been said that the bridge was a highway, the colony in which it was now situated. So­ but he repudiated such an assertion ; he long as it remain10d in one extreme corner, utterly denied that that bridge was one of they would have in future what they had the highways of the colony. There was a hitherto had-constant demands for money to­ time when it was so, perhaps, but since then be spent in Brisbane. They had made rail­ there had been a railway made at a cost of ways for the Brisbane people, made a harbor· nearly half-a-million of money ; so that all at the cost of £100,000, made streets and the arguments in favor of the bridge being a drainage, and were doin?: so now ; they had: highway had been removed by the construc­ done all those things for the benefit of the tion of that-the Brisbane and Ipswich Rail­ citizens, and now it was proposed to buy a way. It was simply a local affair; and it. bridge for them. ln return for those things, was simply for the benefit of the people of the Brisbane people, as regarded tax-paying, South Brisbane, and for the enhancement of were not so heavily burdened as those to­ the value of property in Queen street, that "IYhom bare justice was refused. the Government were moving in the matter. The Question was put and passed. Let honorable members compare the action Mr. \VALSH said he trusted before the ·of the Government now with their action debate was resumed the return which the when he moved for a sum of money to make Government had promised would be laid on a bridge across the Burdekin. ·was there one of them who said a word in favor of that the table. work-a work which would have been of such Mr. KnwsFoRD said that that was what value to the people of the North, as it would the debate was aqiourned for. have spanned one of their main arteries, Mr. W ALSH said he was glad to hear and would have been to the benefit of thou­ that ordinarily silent honorable member sands of pioneers-of the men who were say so; but he wanted a promise from the making the colony, instead of for the benefit Government that the return alluded to would of a few men who had settled down in Queen be in the hands of honorable members before llepairs to [18 OcTOBER.] Parliament House. 997

the debate was resumed, so that they would be in possession of all the facts they could get before being called on to give a de­ cision. The PREMIER said that it was only the other day that the return was moved for in connection • with the bridge. It was rather voluminous, but he was in hopes that it would be laid on the table on the next day. As it would take some time to print, he had suggested the adjournment of the debate until the following Tuesday, in order to allow plenty of time.