2401 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2402 gest an integrated system to provide understand them but also appreciate them. resources for development and ielief to the common man." The Third Plan period has been a lucky period for the Railways. They have had a good The motion was negatived. going in all the three years of the Third Plan period. And from the Budget speech of the, THK DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Then we Railway Minister it appears that the Railways are going to have another very satisfactory go to the Railway Budget. year. The capital expenditure planned for the Railways during the Third Plan was of a high order. And the commercial press in the country owned by some leading commercial THE BUDGET (RAILWAYS), 1964-6.1 — and industrial magnates was very critical of GENERAL DISCUSSION the plans for many reasons, and one of them wag that the outlay proposed for the Railways SHRI ARJUN ARORA (Uttar Pradesh) ; during the Third Plan period was too high, and Madam Deputy Chairman, I take this they expressed doubts whether the Railways opportunity to congratulate the Railway would be able to fully utilise the funds. It is a Minister for producr ing this Budget which has matter of great satisfaction that the capital come as a break after a certain number of expenditure has been very properly phased by years during which passenger flares have the Railways, and it is satisfactory to find that continuously risen. .1 congratulate the after the sum of Rs 360 crores proposed to be Minister for producing a Budget which does spent during the year 1964-65 is spent the Railways will have only a sum of the order of not include a rise in passenger fares. There is, however, a small rise in the freight rates v/hich Rs. 320 crores for the last year of the Third Plan The Ministry and the Board have to be the Minister has described as adjustments. It is correct that the adjustments, are only nominal. congratulated for the correct phasing of the And they will yield the Railways only Rs. 7 capital expenditure during the Third Plan crores during the year for which the Budget period. The good effect of this planning is has been presented. That should be nothing evident from the fact that the whole transport particularly because the items chosen for position in the country has changed. freight rate adjustments are items on which the Two years back, during the debate on the freights were abnormally low. The private Railway Budget, everybody including my sector in the country has been crying hoarse humble self was complaining against the against these adjustments and all the Railways because they were not able to commercial press, the entire capitalist press, deliver the goods. But today the position is whether it is 'The Capital' or The Commerce' such that the Minister has correctly claimed or "The Eastern Economist' ha been s that tha Railways have reached a position in criticising the Railway Minister for these which all the goods offered for transport are adjustments. I submit, Madam, that these taken. Three years back, there was a hue and criticisms are unfair. These adjustments which cry in the country that the coal position was the Railway Minister has introduced have bad because the Railways were unable to come after there was a Freight Rate Structure move coal from the pit-heads to the Committee, after quite a great deal of thinking. consuming centres. Today there is no such The Railways in the country are doing the complaint, and though we are now reaching private sector a unique service. They are the end of the carrying their requirements at abnormally low rates and so. if the some nominal adjustments are made, people should be able not only to 1192 RSD—5. 2403 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ RAJYA SABHA ] General Discussion 2404 plant into an electric locomotive busy period for the Railways, the winter plant. One wonders why this sort of period, there is no complaint in any part of the thing could not be foreseen twelve or country against the Railways as far as coal fifteen years back. When we built movements are concerned. As. a matter of Chittaranjan to produce steam loco fact, the Railways have reached such a motives, the world had made its pre satisfactory position that it is the Railways ference for diesel locomotives and elec which charge the coal-mines and others with tric locomotives. Why did we go in not utilising the transport placed at their for a plant to make steam locomotives disposal. twelve 'years back when now we have to think of converting that plant Madam, I take this opportunity to into an electric locomotive plant? That is congratulate the Railways for this something which should have been foreseen. achievement. The year 1962-63 was Of course, it is satisfactory to find that the obviously a good year. The current year first big diesel locomotive came out of the promises to be equally good. The Railways' Manduadi Plant early this year. But my performance during the last few years has submission is that dieselisation and been such that we have reached a stage in electrification are which the industrial development of the things which should have been 3 P.M. country Js being helped by quick and cheap foreseen by our experts twelve transport. years back, when we took to manufacture of steam locomotives. During the emergency, the Railways did a The situation of locomotives in the country wonderful job. When the emergency came, the has improved a great deal, but there is still the Railways had to carry enormous amounts of need to import locomotives, and even this goods to an area in the north-east frontier Budget speech does not foresee and end to which is not very well provided with railway import of locomotives. That is something transport. But nowhere in the country was any which provides a matter for serious thought. complaint that the goods required by our defence forces were not delivered by the THE MINISTER OF RAILWAYS (SHRI H. Railways where they could. That was a very C. DASAPPA): What locomotives? satisfactory thing for which not only the Railway Ministry but also the millions of SHRI ARJUN ARORA: The Minister in his railway employees in the country deserve all learned speech has talked of import of possible praise. They worked overtime; they locomotives and he has envisaged that import worked intensively; they worked jn such a will continue during tbe period for which the satisfactory manner that the defence forces Budget has been produced. were properly supplied with all the goods that the Defence Ministry had to despatch. SHRI H. C. DASAPPA: No, no, we are fully self-sufficient in steam locomotives, not in others. While that is a satisfactory position with regard to the locomotives it appears that the SHRI AKBAR ALI KHAN (Andhra Railway Board has been living from hand to Pradesh); Not in electric locomotives. mouth. The Chittaranjan Locomotive plant is an achievement but it is not a very bold SHRI ARJUN ARORA; Being self-sufficient achievement. A hundred odd steam in steam locomotives, I submit Madam, is not locomotives have come out of that plant. a matter of pride or satisfaction because you Now, there is a talk of converting that are already talking of greater dieselisation and steam locomotive greater use of electric locomotives. If you are self-sufficient in what you 2405 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2406 [Shri Arjun Arora] their running time has been abnormally yourself consider antiquated things or increased. antiquated modes, you don't feel satisfied; at least I don't. AN HON. MEMBER: That is so. Then the area chosen for use of diesel SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Now that is not locomotives and electric locomotives has a satisfactory thing. Running time should be brought down and punctuality also been a very queer area. The whole of the belt which produces coal has been ensured. To give you only one example, dieselised and electrified. Where coal is Madam, express trains now take more than four hours between Allahabad and available for consumption, the Railways are using diesel and electricity in order to Kanpur. Fifteen years back it was the take coal to other areas. I do not know same thing. Now crores of rupees have been spent during this period to improve why this was done. If dieselisation and the track in that area and the railway line electrification had to be begun, on a small scale it .should have been begun in areas has been doubled. What is the use of doubling the track, what is the use of where no coal is available. But what the;' have done is that have converted the spending public money if public time is entire coal-bearing area round about not saved? Dhanbad, to the extent of cent per cent, SHRI SHEEL BHADRA YAJEE: U.P. into a dieselised and electrified area. Now has got a net of railway lines. that choice is difficult to understand. SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Increasing the SHRI SHEEL B HADRA YAJEE running time is not a same method to (Bihar): They are 'for your safety and ensure punctuality. That way you can that is why they do not move the trains ensure that your trains will si-ways arrive fast. before time. .1 suggest that the practice SHRI ARJUN ARORA: The Railways of incentives be applied to ensure have done another good thing in accepting punctuality after cutting down the the incentive scheme for their staff. They present long running time. have, in their workshops, the practice of Then the practice of incentives and payment by results. Incentives to greater payment by results can also be applied to production and greater productivity are check ticketless travel. At present the accepted phenomena all over the world, T.T.E. who sleeps all night and the T.T.E. and the railways have done well to who spends sleepless nights are treated implement that idea in their workshops. alike by the Railways. What the Railways But I wonder why they have limited the have done to check ticketless travel is to application of the incentive scheme to appoint more people, more teams. The their workshops alone. The fact that T.T.E. now findg himself treated very incentive schemes have produced good leniently by the Railways because there results in almost all the workshops should are teams, checking teams, working in his have given the incentive to the Ministry area from the divisional headquarters, and the Railway Board to apply that very then from the headquarters of the zonal principle to other spheres of work of the railway and also from the headquarters of Railways. T suggest that the Minister the Railway Board. Increasing the examine the advisability of using checking parties is no method to eliminate incentives for ensuring punctuality. At ticketless travel. I suggest that if tfie present Madarn, what has been done is T.T.E. who works hard, who works that in order to deprive people of the op- conscientiously knows that he is going to portunity of complaining against lack of be rewarded, his effort is going to be punctuality in railway trains, recognised, he will produce greater results than these parties which go out from Baroda House which houses the Northern Railway, 2407 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2408 and from the headquarters of the Railway in transit. Unless you are able to give the Board. After all, if the Travelling Ticket Railway Protection Force that power which Examiner's job is also taken on by teams from the police normally has to proceed against the the Railway Board, what will the people at culprits, the expenditure on Railway the lower level do? I suggest that this practice Protection Force is a waste. of incentives, which the Minister has correctly pointed out has produced good results in the workshops, should be applied to Ever since we achieved independence, check ticketless travel also, and also to ensure passenger amenities have been increasing and higher efficiency all over the railways. the Railways can certainly be congratulated for that. The provision of fans in third class The Minister has paid high tributes to the coaches is a welcome improvement, the pro- Railway Protection Force. I submit, Madarn, vision of wash-basins in the lavatories of third that the bouquets for the Railway Protection class coaches is a welcome improvement but Force are unjustified, because pilferage is on it appears that the Railways propose to stop at the increase in spite of the Railway Protection that. If they do so, it will be most disappoint- Force. The loss of goods in transit is on the ing. As a matter of fact, the number of increase in spite of this wounderful Force and lavatories in third class coaches needs an the amount of money that 'the Railways have increase. The number of wash-basins also to pay as compensation for loss of goods in should be increased. transit shows a continuous rise. How and why do you pay tributes to the Railway Protection Force? SHRI N. M. ANWAR (Madras): What is your ratio? One for every [THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI AKBAR ALI ten passengers? KHAN) in the Chair.] -

As a frequent passenger on the Northern SHRI ARJUN ARORA: One for every Railway, I found—and many people on other fifteen passengers will be a good enough ratio. zones of the Railways have found—that the only contribution that the Railway Protection Unless that is done, Sir—I am sorry I did not Force makes is to occupy a compartment notice the change—we will be stagnating all which may perhaps be better utilised to relieve the same. After all, whatever has been done overcrowding in third class compartments. for the provision of fans, etc. in the third class Either improve the working of the Railway coaches is a matter of great satisfaction, but Protection Force or abolish it. At least do not what is not being done is a matter of grave come year after year to pay tributes to it. The concern. Overcrowding in third class compart- Railway Protection Force itself knows that it ments is still a big enough problem to need all is powerless. All that the Railway Protection possible attention. Unless that is done, Sir, the Force can do in the case of pilferage is to try impact of the amenities is lost on the people to apprehend the culprit. But the Railway because if a passenger who has bought a third Protection Force under the law has no power class ticket is net ensured a seat in the railway to proceed against, the culprit. All that it can compartment, the fan in the railway do is to hand him over to the local police, and compartment offers him no satisfaction the local police may not always be available whatsoever; it is of no utility to him if he has because local police has been told that it is no to travel on the footboard. I will be satisfied more responsible for protection of railway and the Railway Minister should be satisfied property and goods only when he takes the country to R position in which anybody, who buys a third class ticket, is ensured a place to sit. 2409 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ RAJYA SABHA ] General Discussion 2410

[Shri Arjun Arora.] THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (Saw AKBJLR ALI The Minister yesterday announced in the KHAN): Your time is up, Mr. Arora. other House the doubling of air-conditioned De-luxe trains. Well, cnat will give some SHRI ARJUN ARORA: I will take only a relief to some people but it will not give any couple of more minutes. relief to many people. I expect from tlie hon. Railway Minister an announcement about Before 1 sit down, Sir, .1 must refer to doubling the Janata trains. certain important matters affecting the railway staff and the workmen. laere is in the SHRI H. C. DASAPPA: I have referred to Railways an unusual phenomenon of that also that more janata» should be put on temporary officers. Well, anybody acquainted the track. with labour psychology knows that being temporary means insecurity. And there are in SHRI ARJUN ARORA: More is not the Railways officers who have been doubling. If air-conditioned trains are temporary for the last eight years. While doubled and we are promised, only more engagement of temporary stall, temporary Janata trains, well, that is not something officers is something understandable for work which one should expect from a Gandhian of a temporary nature, employing people for Railway Minister. your normal work and keeping them temporary for eight or nine years is not a fair Then, Sir, I congratulate the Railway labour policy. It is not even a fair employer Minister for adding one more train between policy because a person, not secure in his Delhi and Madras. Links between North India office, does not give you his best. The and South India are very necessary not only conductors on the railway trains are not given for national integration but also for economic running allowance merely because they are development. called conductors and they are recruited from the T.T.Es. The guards are given the allowance. It is wrong to call the conductors SHRI N. M. ANWAR: Part of the Kamaraj Plan. nonessential. They provide the passengers the amenities to which they are entitled. Gone are the days when they could be termed non- SHRI ARJUN ARORA: I do not know if it essential. Today in the absence of conductors is Dart of the Kamaraj Plan or the Dasappa there will be chaos as far as the first-class pas- Plan, but an additional train between Delhi sengers are concerned and people will not get and Madras is something for which I their seats even after reservation. They are congratulate the Railway Minister. For a long now essential staff. The conductors are also time the people of U.P. have been requesting denied night allowance, which is paid to the the Railway Ministry to provide three coaches guards and drivers. T.T.Es. are also denied from Lucknow to Madras and from Varanasi night allowance. How do you expect the to Madras. Now that this new train is given, I T.T.Es. to check ticketless travelling when hope the Railway Board will see the justi- they are considered nonessential? You fication of this demand and there will be a consider them nonessential in the payment of through coach—mixed coach— from night allowance and they are prone to consider Lucknow, Kanpur, Jhansi, Madras and work on the night as non-essential and occupy another from Varanasi which may join the a berth to sleep. The distinction in the new train at .Itarsi. If that is done, the people Railways between essential and non-essential of U.P. will have a great deal of satisfaction. staff is invidious because the Railways will The people of U.P. have not been given a not run and th«y will not be able to single mile of new railway track during the Third Plan. At least give us some three coaches. 2411 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2412 give the people the service which they capacity and track capacity of the render if one section of the Railway Railways and the Statistical Department labour is considered unnecessary and of the Railway Board have proudly non-essential. compared our performance on the B.G. to the performance of other leading railways The dearness allowance of the Railway in the world and we all should be proud staff has recently been increased. .It has of that because our performance tops the been increased with effect from 7th Ust. Of course, .1 did not find the February. The All-India Railway-men's Japanese Railways mentioned there. I do Federation and the I.N.T.U.C-controlled not know whether the figure of the Japa- Indian National Railway-men's nese Railways is available to them. But Federation have both declared that the these performances by themselves do not increase in the dearness allowance which show that the Railways have succeeded was announced on 7th February is totally in meeting all the problems that we are inadequate and will not satisfy in the least facing because in the country at the same the demands of the workers. This increase time the industrial production has slowed in the dearness allowance is a nominal down and there has been a failure in the one and compared to the rise in the agricultural sector. So much so the de- prices, the increase that is announced is mand also has gone down to a certain very insufficient. It will not lessen the extent, that is, it has not gone up to the hardships from which the Rail-waymen extent that was expected. That also was a are suffering and have suffered during the factor which should be taken into last three or four years. So the Railways consideration while planning for the should give greater thought to this future. At the same time that does not question. mean that there has been no achievement and it would be wrong to say that the With these words, .1 once more con- achievements are also negligible. The gratulate the Railway Minister for what railway workers have done their part he has done and I hope he will do more. properly in this effort. For example, in the Golden Rock Workshop 500 box type SHRI P. K. KUMARAN (Andhra of wagons which were programmed to be Pradesh): Mr. Vice-President, the hon. Railway Minister has drawn before us a completed within four years were comfortable picture of the Railways' completed in two years. Similar instances performance during last year. During the ean be quoted from many places on the last 12 years the industrial production in Railways. That means the railway staff India has gone up by 105 per cent. During has been doing the maximum in co- the same period the movement of traffic operating with the administration. or freight traffic in India has gone up by 128 per cent. That means the Railways As far as the financial results of the have more or less succeeded in moving Railways are also concerned, there is all the traffic offered, that they have good improvement. On the whole I think succeeded in satisfying all the sections— there is satisfaction. It has been importers, exporters and internal acclaimed in the press also but there are merchants also. So also the passenger two categories of people who are traffic has increased by 36 per cent, and dissatisfied, who are not properly treated the passenger K.M. has increased by 26 by the administration—by the Railway per cent. That shows that the number of Board and the Railway Minister. One is short distance passengers has increased. the railway employee and the other, the In the report it says that the suburban Third Class passengers. Take the case of traffic has increased beyond control. the railway employee first. In the year There is a very good improvement in the 1946, the First Pay Commission made a utilisation of tonne Report 2413 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ RAJYA SABHA ] General Discussion 2414 L&nn f. Ji. Jvumaran] and they recommended The second category of sufferers is that of an increase of wages. At that time the cost the third class passengers. It is claimed by the of living index, with 1939 as the base year, was Railway Minister that overcrowding in the ii60 points. The Pay Commission envisaged Railways has very much gone down, by 3 per that the cost of living index will come down to cent, in the case of broad-gauge and in the case 160. So for 160 points hey recommended of metre gauge it has come down from 30 0 to Rs. 30 as basic wage, that is, Rs. 15 was the 14-5 per cent or by about 16 per cent. I do not old basic wage and for every 20 points over know how. Anyway it is not discernible to the IOO, they recommended 5. So Rs. 15 the naked eye. The third class passenger plus Rs. 15 for 160 points, they recommended contributes the maximum amount as far as Rs. 30 as basic pay and for the remaining 100 the income of the Railways from passenger points they recommended Rs. 25 as the traffic is concerned. Now what is his fate? dearness allowance. So, for a Class IV em- After purchasing his ticket he has to hang on to ployee in those days it was recommended Rs. the footboard, endangering his life. It is very 30 as basic plus Es. 25 as dearness difficult to get in. There are reservations allowance. Over and above 260 points, and all these things. But very few people are in they recommended Rs. 5 for a rise of 20 points a position to avail of that facility. Also of four annas for a rise of one point. Today if fraudulent reservations are going on and for the present cost of living index is taken into that the hon. Minister is going to bring in a Bill. consideration, the latest December figure is I do not know whether that Bill will solve that 138-5 on 1949 base. If it is converted into 1939 problem. It is a universal practice, base, the figure would come to 493 for which especially at centres like Bombay, Madras the railway employee is now eligible for Rs. and at Delhi also. Thus third class reserva- 113-25, that is 233-6 points over 260 tion has become a costly affair and unless which should fetch him Rs. 58-25 plus you pay blackmarket prices to people who the original Rs. 55. Now, he is paid only Rs. operate strictly within the rules of the 87 including the latest pittance of Rs. 2. That Railways, you are not able to get a seat in the means he is getting Rs. 26-25 less than what he train. ought to get. That is, in terms of 1947 wages, his wages have gone down by 23 per cent. So To improve the fate of the third class my request is that this should be considered. passenger, my suggestion is that the number of After all the railway employees are not con- travelling ticket checking inspectors should be cerned with the amount of rupees they get. increased and one T.T.I, should be posted for They want that whatever amount of pay you every two compartments, if not for every give them^ if they take it to the market eompartment. The present system of having they should get enough provision for central squads, divisional squads, headquarters meeting the expenses of the family, for the squads and different squads going up and upkeep of their families and for looking after down the country, checking and cross- the education of their children, etc. So, checking and then collecting some excess fares is not necessary. This excess fare is not having failed to control prices, it is your duty to real income. This exces fare is only the see that this dearness allowance is linked up s income which the Railways have failed to with the cost of living index as collect at the source, at the booking office or recommended by the First Pay Commission, at the gate of the starting station. Unless the not by the Second Pay Commission. The checking system, that I have suggested, is Second Pay Commission formula wiH not introduced and the squad system is abolished, benefit the railway employee; and they the problem cannot be solved. Have one have already rejected that formula. central squad operating from the

2415 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 J General Discussion 2416 headquarters of the Railway. They can SHRI SYED AHMAD (Madhya Pra- occasionally check and if in a desh) : Even then they are very often compartment where a T.T\I. has been late. posted a ticketless traveller is found, then take it up harshly with the T.T.I, and give SHRI P. K. KUMARAN: That may be; him the maximum punishment. Then this but express trains somehow manage io ticketless travel can be controlled and come in time. But in the other trains the this leakage of revenue also can be passengers are suffering and so they go stopped. Of course, there will be some in for bus travel. reduction in the excess fare collection. Next, I would like to refer to a matter Another thing I would like to suggest is concerning that fast developing industrial that in order to give more facilities to belt between Nagpur and Calcutta. There long-distance passengers some a number of industries are coming up. restrictions have got to be imposed on There are the steel factories coming up, some passengers entering the long dis- the coal washeries are coming up. And tance trains like the Grand Trunk Ex- there are other works coming up. There a press, the Calcutta Mail and other trains. number of employees working in these Restrictions should be imposed on the establishments and they find it very short-distance passengers and these difficult to get accommodation to go to passengers should be carried by fast their native, places. Therefore, I would moving local trains moving from point to suggest that one express trains has got to point. Now, what is happening is that be introduced between Nagpur and even goods trains, crack trains, special Howrah and another express train from trains and block trains are given special Delhi to Vizagapatam via Bina, Katnis attention and they are given preference Bilaspur and Raipur. Also, the Janata even over mail trains. And the old train running now between Bombay and passenger, trains suffer. There is a Madras should be converted into a daily passenger train starting from Olavakode train and once a week this train should going to Madras. There is another from run right up to Cochin. From Bombay Waltair to Madras and yet another from there are a number of complaints that Raichur to Madras. These passenger passengers going to Kerala do not get trains are usually late by six or seven accommodation in the trains. Yesterday I hours. They are allowed at the leisure of got a big memorandum from them and I the Railway and at the convenience of the think the Railway Minister also would section control. So any passenger who have received a similar one, a big bundle goes from Cuddapah to attend the court giving a number of suggestions for im- al Rajampet will miss his court. And so proving the service and they propose people get into the mail train even at restrictions which we dare not propose. night time, taking all the risks involved in But it is very necessary that something that. In order to overcome this difficulty, should be done in this regard. The local trains should be run and they should holiday period is coming and from April move quickly. They should be fast trains the season commences and so I hope the and they should be run punctually. Railway Board will consider the question of converting the Janata train into a daily As far as running time is concerned, I train and once a week it should run agree with my hon. friend, Shri Arjun straight to Cochin. Arora that some sort of a fictitious extra time is given for the running time at .1 would like to make another sug- important sections. That is there probably gestion. There is a train between to enable the Railways to claim that they Vijyawada and Dronachalam. It starts at are running their trains punctually. But 3 o'clock in the day from Vijayawada and that is not a correct thing. reaches Dronachalam 2417 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ RAJYA SABHA ] General Discussion 2418 [Shri P. K. Kumaran] at about 4 next stipulated time. Here is one example. On 4th morning. You can easily convert this into a December, 1963, at Bilha station on the fast express train and it should start from Bilaspur-Drug section, a goods train worked Vijayawada after the arrival of the G.T. by a diesel engine No. 18184 ran past the Express and the Calcutta Mail and then run outer and home signals an<} collided with a on as a fast express train like the old Kurnool goods train standing at Bilha station. The loss Express was running and it can easily reach to the Railways because of the collision must Gun-takal and thus connect up with the have been nearly a lakh of rupees. The driver, Bombay-Madras express and mail trains. Mr. D. S. Nara-yana, who was working the diesel locomotive, was working overtime continuously during the preceding month. .If Next, I have to say a few words on the you look at his duty sheets, you will find that subject of wastage. I would suggest that the he has done more than 380 hours in the Railways should encourage the formation of preceding thirty days. The incentive is there labour cooperative societies and the contract that if he does overtime, he will get money at transhipment places, for loading and un- and since it is a question of getting money, he loading and so on, should be given to these is prepared to work but what happens is this. labour- cooperative societies. Somehow or Even though the mind is willing to work, other, the local officials seem to prefer the there is something else called the nervous contractors. Maybe the reason is obvious. For system which is exhausted and standing example, the work at Reclamation and behind the wheel he starts sleeping. It Mathurakati scrap yard on the Southeastern naturally happens and people are exhausted. Railway which was originally estimated to So, it is necessary to see that people are not cost Rs. 1,80,000 was given on contract and made to work beyond the duty hours already the Railways have paid the contractor prescribed and this idea of overtime has got to as much as Rs. 5 or Rs. 6 lakhs and still the be controlled. The solution is to employ more work is not completed. The same contractor people. continues to be preferred. Such things should be avoided and as far as possible labour I will give you another example from the cooperative, societies should be encouraged same division. On the 13th February, 1963, a on such works. head-on collision between 800 Down goods train and 3CA passenger train occurred at Bau • ridand station in the Anupur-Chirimiri Now, I come to the question of accidents. section. The A.S.M. on duty had set 'the point We have now the report on the accidents, the and had locked it and the A.S.M. later on said, Accidents Review Report. ,1 am only "I thought I had set the correct point and touching on the problem. It is stated there locked it". That station was working under an tHat 70:5 per cent, of the accidents are judged AOS. The interlocking was removed and the as having been caused by the failure of the station was working under his supervision. railway staff. This is a thing which I find very Instead of six Assistant Station Masters, he difficult to accept. I will illustrate my point by was managing with three Assistant Station giving one or two examples. I find that over- Masters and this particular Assistant Station time allowances are paid to the running staff Master wag on twenty-four hour duty on the in many divisions, and it amounts to as much 12th and broke off duty at midnight but he as 25 per cent, of the total wage bill. That was again called back in the morning. The means that those men are being made to work administration failed to appoint people and he overtime, over and above their committed this mistake. He actuallv said. "I was tired. I thought I had locked 2419Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2420 the correct point" whereas he had not and this give some relief to the patients. It is not head-on collision took placa. When people are possible to shift the hospital from that place. made to work overtime it results in serious accidents and serious loss or damage to pro- There is a small stretch of line of about six perty. If it is a passenger train, then there may miles running from Reni-gunta to Tirupathi. It be loss of life also which nobody can replace. is a metre gauge line running up to Renigunta. The other losses can be replaced but not loss The very large number of pilgrims who of life. contribute all the money for the university, hospitals, schools and other things being run Another thing to improve the working is to in Tirupathi find it veiy difficult to get down have more compact zones. My opinion is that at Renigunta Or change into other trains or these four railway zones the Central, the buses. This question was raised in the past Western, the Southern and the Northern, ateo. If this stretch of six miles coula be which together constitute nearly 24,000 miles converted into a mixed gauge so that the or so should be reorganised into six zones; broad gauge trains can go up to Tirupathi, portions of the Southern and Central Railways deposit the passengers and come back to should be organised into one zone with Renigunta, it will be of great help to the Secundcrabad as the headquarters as is now passengers. This is quite a longstanding demanded by the people of that area and the demand from the people of that area as well as metre gauge portions of the Western Railway from the pilgrims who have been going there. and the Northern Railway should be constituted into another zone. Thus you will find that each Railway will have more or less A line from Ongole to Hyderabad has been 3,500 to 4,000 miles which I think is a com- another long-standing demand. I would pact and well-knit unit and can be easily request the Railway Minister to have at least handled by any single authority operating the survey conducted. This line could run from a centre. from Ongole to Hyderabad via Nagarjuna- sagar and if this line could be linked with Im Secunderabad, there is the Gandhi Kazipet from Nagarjunasagar the congestion Hospital just across the shunting yard at Vijayawada which the Railways face will separated by a narrow road. These shunting be be relieved or easily reduced, and the engines release steam pressure which makes a traffic from north to the south can be diverted terrific noise. There were cases when pregnant through this line. The people of Andhra have women waiting in the hospital, because of this been agitating for a line from Visakhapatnam shock treatment given to them, they deliver to Kothagudum. The other lines which the and this kind of treatment is not considered people of Andhra have been demanding and good either for the mother or for the child. At which have been supported by the Andhra times the smoke coming from the engines Pradesh Government are, Nandyal to Katpati enters the hospital building and does not go via Mydakur, Nel-lore to Mydakur and out. The atmosphere there is polluted. It is a Hyderabad to Pakala. I would also remind the big hospital consisting of 550 beds and a Railway Minister that the Mysore-Coorg- number of students are also there. I would Tellicherry line has been surveyed and I suggest to the Railway Minister to allot some would request him to see that at least in his diesel engines in place of the steam engines. It period that line is constructed. may not be possible to remove the shunting yard because there is a bridge or something. SHRI H. C. DASAPPA: Further prompted This can be considered later on but by your friend there. immediately some diesel engines can be allotted te this place wliich will 2421 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ RAJYA SABHA ] General Discussion 2422

SHRI M. N. GOVINDAN NAIR: if there is any specific charge against them, (Kerala): It is our common interest. they should be given an opportunity to defend themselves. But they should all be reinstated SHRI P. K. KUMARAN; Now, I will come to and I hope the Minister will announce it even the question of selection of certain workers. in the course of his reply. Last year, there was a selection for posts of Assistant Labour Welfare Inspectors on the Then there is the question of labour policy. Southern Railway. The complaint is that the On the Southern Railway there are three administration posted certain people whom it unions. In the year 1960 one union was wanted to select in advance. Posts were affiliated io the All India Railwaymen's created in advance, these people were Federation, another union was affiliated to appointed and on the plea that they were offi- the National Federation of Indian Rail- ciating they were called for interview and waymen and the third union functioning selected; otherwise, some so.rt of favouritism from Golden Rock was independent. In was prevailing. In the case of the Western I960, we decided to reduce the number of Railway, there has been a complaint that for unions to two and so the union that was selecting certain Grade II officers to fill up affiliated to the All India Railwaymen's Fede- twenty-one vacancies, they should have ration merged in the union that was functioning called eighty-four candidates but in order to from Golden Rock and thus two unions see that the people whom they favoured were came into existence. Unfortunately, the selected, they called four hundred and fifty leadership of the Federation did not like this people and I believe, if the report which I and sO they gave a call to their people to received is correct, that wrangling is going organise a third union on the Southern Railway 0*1 between the Selection Board and and that union was called tlie Southern the General Manager of tha Western Railway Mazdoor Union. But this Union, Railway. Such practices should be discouraged the Dakshina Railway Employees' Union, was a and rules which are already framed for this very old union, and Mr. Guruswamy was the purpose should be followed strictly so that President of the Union for a number of years the employees get confidence in the justice and in the other Union Shri Ananthan which the railway administrations wiH meet Nambiar and Shri Kaiyanasundaram were out in such cases. functioning as leaders. That also was an old union. Even if you try to ignore that union, it Now, recently, the Supreme Court has will thrive. So my request to you is, you try to struck down rule 149, originally rule 148 of talk to them and come to some sort of an the Railway Establishment Code. Since 1953, understanding with them. It is now run the Railways have been dismissing people and completely by the employees; the President, the first casualty of this rule 149 is the trade Secretary and all others are employees. Of union workers. ,If an accident takes place and course, Mr. Guruswamy was the last President ^ the Government finds it difficult to fix Now all the office bearers of this union are responsibility on anybody, they arbitrarily say working employees. So it is not correct not to that such and such man should have been res- come to an understanding with them. You ponsible and so, instead of conducting an must see to it that they are recognised. enquiry into that case, they dismiss him under this rule 149. This is also used against trade union workers. Thus, a number of workers There is another thing I would like to say. have been removed since 1949. Since this rule Now, the Railway Minister is always talking has now been declared invalid, I hope these of unity. Then why should he perpetuate men will be reinstated and these two Fede- I rations? Mr. V. V. Giri has given a 2423 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2424 good formula for bringing about a unity of the stopped. There are other aspects of corruption two Federations. I would like—just as in the but I would not like to go into them now. We case of vhe P. & T. —the Railway Minister to shall deai with them later on. take stepa to see that the two Federations are Thank you. brought together and al] the existing unions also are brought into one Federation. You can adopt any convenient formula, preferably the Girl formula. If there are certain unions which do not approve of that formula which you adopt and if it is a reasonable formula—of course the democratic process should be there—then certainly derecognise -them. They must give recognition to sill the unions and then try to apply the Giri formula and bring about unity. Unless there is a united union you cannot have full co-operation and unless there is co-operation between the Federation and the Railways the performance is not going to improve. There is still room, for improvement. Our country is going to develop and so our Railways also should develop in accordance with the necessities of industrial development.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI AKBAR ALI KHAN) : How much more time will you take?

SHRI P. K. KUMARAN; Just one minute more. I have received a report and it is up to the Railway Board to see that it is enquired into. Biri leaves are being exported from sta- tions like Kotarlia, Kirodimalnagar, Balpahar, Jharradih, Sakti, Raigarh, etc. in Bilaspur Division. They are booked to Mangalore and a few wagons are booked to Quilon and Tin- nevelly. Now in booking there was restriction on wagon loading. So they were divided into smalls and exported to Mangalore and in order to make the local officials connive at this these merchants paid large amount of bribes. They were offered because these leaves are reported to have been smuggled to Pakistan from Mangalore. This is my report and I hope the Railway Board will enquire into it anj see that such malpractices for private purposes like smuggling are

2425Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ RAJYA SABHA ] General Discussion 2426

2427 Budget {Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2428

2429Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ RAJYA SABHA ] General Discussion 2430

2431 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2432

2433 Budaet (Railways), 1964-65 I RAJYA SABHA ] General Discussion 2434

2435Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2436

2437Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2438

2439Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2440

2441 Budget .Railways),1964-65 [RAJYA SABHA] General Discussion 2442

2443Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2444

2445Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ RAJYA SABHA ] General Discussion 2446

2447Budffet (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2448

2449Bwd0et (Railways), 1964-65 [ RAJYA SABHA ] General Discussion 2450

2451 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2452

2453,Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ RAJYA SABHA ] General Discussion 2454

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI AKBAR ALI KHAN) : He wants the Minister to listen to his speech.

SHRI H. C. DASAPPA-. I am getting the version of it translated because I am not able to follow it in Hindi 2455Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2456

2457Bud9et (Railways), 1964-65 [ RAJYA SABHA ] General Discussion 2458

2459 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2460

3461 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ RAJYA SABHA ] General Discussion 2462

2463Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2464

2A65 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ RAJYA SABHA ] General Discussion 2466

SHRI J. S. PILLAI (Madras): Mr. Vice- Chairman, Sir, Mr. Arjun Arora who initiated the debate paid encomiums to the Minister, and .1 echo his words. But in doing so I wish to point out certain defects in the running of trains; it is not to be taken as serious criticism of the Railways. Mr. Arjun Arora said that the running time ol the trains has been increased. It is a fact, but in spite of it every train is running late, not a single train reaches its destination in time. After I became a Member of this august body I had to travel to Madras about ithirty or forty times and not on one occasion did I reach Madras in time. So also every time I started from Madras to Delhi, the train reached Delhi very late, not late but very late. What is it due to? It is due to carelessness on the part of the railway employees. And this carelessness is to ba seen not only in the Railways but throughout, in every department of the Government. ,1 hope you would remember, Mr. Vice-Chairman—I shall give one instance to show how care- lessness is pervading everywhere—the other day when the Vice-President was delivering an Address to both the Houses, the National Anthem was played twice. This would never have happened during the time of the Europeans. So also I have seen this carelessness and indifference in the Railways; every Government servant wants to lead a happy- go-lucky life. Now wherein lies the remedy? 2467Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 2468 My suggestion to tha Government, rather should provide them with two or three to the Railway Ministry ig that, in future, sets of dress—I do not know how many the Minister and his two Deputies and the they are giving now. Members of the Railway Board, whenever they want to (travel, they SHRI H. C. DASAFPA: For one should travel by train alone. When tha journey they have three sets. Railways were in the hands of companies all the officers travelled, by train alone— SHRI J. S. PILLAI: Three sets both in at that time no doubt there were no the winter as well as in the summer? planes— but now the Minister and his Anyhow my suggestion is, you should Deputies and the officers who are in the give them more so that they may appear Railway Board, resort to plane. So there always clean. is carelessness on the part of the staff. En future—I reiterate what I have said—the Then another thing I want t0 tell the Minister and hig Deputies and th© Railway Minister is that in the matter of Members of the Railway Board should go employment they should give—I do not by train and train alone. When I say they want any special privileges for the should go by train alone, I do not mean Harijans—rather the harijans must be they should go by a railway saloon. In given at least some concession or meted case there is a saloon to be attached, what out fair justice. I have already told the will happen is that one third class com- Mninister how in one case, in order to partment will be detached in order to give promotion to a member of the so- make room for the saloon, and it will called high caste community, how they cause a lot of inconvenience to the third had overlooked a harijan) how he was class passengers. So I say that they should victimised. I hope the Mninister would go in the first class compartment. If they look into this matter also. Another want, they can reserve a coupe important point made by some previous compartment or a compartment with four speakers ig that the metre gauge should berths. be converted into broad guage. If that is done, then for those who want to go on pilgrimage from Varanasi to Another thing I wish to tell the Railway Raomeshwaram transhipment need not be Minister is that the food that not good. I necessary. do not blame them. You can get in Delhi Again, Sir, let me emphasise that if the good basmati rice, but we are given that Ministry wants that the trains should run big rice prevailing in Madras, the Kara to time, the Minister, his two Deputies rice the kara samba rice, the big rice. I and the Members of the Railway Board blame only the contractor who supplies it. should hereafter go by train and train The ghee given is only an apology for alone. ghee. For 75 nP. we get good food outside the railway station but here in the SHRI S. C. DEB (Assam): Mr. Vice- railway compartment, they charge us, for Chairman, Sir, I congratulate the Railway non-vegetarian food, Rs. 1.25 nP—I Minister for the performance of 1|he think—and for vegetarian food Rs. 1.10 Railways during the year under review. nP, and yet it is not worth the money that Hon. Members who took part in the is given to the Railway. Then the dress discussion dealt with many points. First the servers put on is very very unclean. I of all, I should like to draw the attention do not blame them because they are of the hon. Railway Minister to over- running from one end of the train to the crowding. In our area there is only one other end and naturally in a day it will mail train, that is, the Assam Mail, which become unclean. What will do? I suggest is always overcrowded. And when there that the Railway Minister is overcrowding, you certainly know that there will be some ticketless travelling. This sort 246gBudget (Railwavs), 1964-65 [ RAJYA SABHA ] General Discussion 247 0 af ticketless travel should be stopped. It is than what it used to do previously. Why a bad thing. Whatever check you have should it take so much time? You aire introduced! is not effective. Therefore, taking pride in moving so much why not have more trains because if you passenger traffic or goods traffic and all issue tickets you are normally bound to that. But in regard to speed of trains you provide accommodation; otherwise you are lagging behind. Why should it be so? should not issue tickets? After you have You cannot explain it in that way. Take issued tickets if you are unable to give any line and you will find that you are accommodation that is not a good thing allowing more time for trains to run.. for the railway administration, which is the biggest industry doing many things SHRI LOKANATH MISRA (Orissa): for the good of the country. So serious They believe in reaching late than never. thought should be given to that. SHRI SHEEL BHADRA YAJEE: Just like the Swatantra Party. Another thing, in this connection, is the SHRI S. C. DEB: What I was going to question of introduction of local trains on say was that even if a mail train is late by sections which aire very overcrowded. two hours it reaches its destination in Since these local trains are meant to time. For instance, if the Delhi-Kalka serve a particular area there will not be Mail is late by two hours when it reaches overcrowding. In this connection, I wish Kanpur, it will make up this time before to draw the attention of the hon. Railway it reaches Delhi. How does it happen? Minister to one fact. From Assam many Therefore, you can save time by passengers are coming and different sec- increasing the speed of the train. That tions of people are represented there. requires to be looked into. You find there your defence personnel, Government personnel, traders, pro- SHRI SHEEL BHADRA YAJEE: fessional men and the general public. There will be danger of accident. When they come to Barauni they get into difficulty. To connect it to Delhi, there is SHRI S. C. DEB: Then, Sir, I congra- only one through first class bogey and a tulate our railway administration and the sleeper coach. Both of them are crowded. Railway Board for constructing a broad Even women with reservation in the third gauge line from Siliguri to Jugigupa. it class sleeping coach are deprived of will serve a better purpose if you extend accommodation because of rush of it up to Gauhati. Not only will it save passengers, particularly, your defence your energy, because in that part there is personnel. So to relieve that congestion, congestion more goods are movingJ you kindly introduce a through train from will be serving the Gauhati refinery. It Barauni to Delhi via Mokameh. will be good for other purposes also like security. Now you are moving mare goods trains. To relieve congestion *t Sir, Mr. Arora has drawn your at- Gauhati you have taken another goods tention to punctuality of trains. You are train station And at Lumding there is now allowing more time for important congestion. So to relieve that con-. trains from one important station to gestion I think it would be better to another station. May I a.sk you humbly introduce a broad gauge line from not whether you are allowing more time for only Jugigupa to Gauhati but you should the running of important trains only to take it up to Lumding. save your administration from complaints of accidents or is it for any other purpose? The Delhi Mail now takes I also congratulate the Railway more time from coming from Howrah to Ministry for having paid attention *> the Delhi difficult section from Lumding to 2471 Budget (Railways), 1964-65 [ 27 FEB. 1964 ] General Discussion 247" act Badarpur. This is a difficult section and it attention of the hon. Minister to the f has as many as 37 tunnels and I am glad that you ar© having «, line from there ia a plan now to strengthen this Kalkalighat to Dharmanagar. You should track. In this connection, I would like to extend it to Agartala so as to serve that say one thinf. In that section there is a area. In the same way from Silchar to distance of only 116 miles and it takes 10 Imphal, I repeat, a line should be hours for the train to cover this much dis- constructed through Kalkalighat to tance. When the track is strengthened, the Dharmanagar and it should be extended trains also should be speeded up. In the up to Agartala. Also from Silchar to other section from Silchar to Badarpur Imphal a line should be constructed to and then on to Karimganj, to cover a serve the Manipur area. distance of 34 miles the train takes 3 hours. Why should it be so? To cover a The hon. Member over there—he is not distance of only 34 miles why should the there now—spoke of Kashmir. Similarly, this area also is very im-portanlt and it train take as much as 3 hours? Because I n come from this neglected and backward should °t be neglected. It should not be area, I have to invite the special attention left neglected like this. Serious attention of the Ministry to this and other areas. should be given to these areas and these These areas should not be neglected. At lines should be constructed and facilities least the speed of the train should he should be given to the people there. Not increased. only that, for security purposes also this is most important. When you find yourself in some difficulty then you take In the same connection, I would like to up a work. Then you come to understand invite the attention of the hon. Minister to the importance of that work. Now, you another thing. From Karimganj to Silchar are constructing the broad gauge line from there are several trains, but there is no Sili-guri to Jugigupa because you are now mid-day train from Silchar to Karimganj. pressed for it. Immediately, you are One train comes from Silchar and stops pressed for a thing you will do it But I for 2 hours at Badarpur and then it starts say you should have forethought and you and goes on to Karimganj, and covers a should look ahead and so what will be the distance of some 11 miles. Therefore, I difficulties some 5 or 10 years from now. suggest that a through train should go I beseech you and I humbly suggest that direct to Karimganj without stopping for you should give your serious attention to 2 hours at Badarpur and that will be of these things. Our Railway Minister is great help to the people. always attentive and pays attention to rectify difficulties. So I say these To one more thing connected with that difficulties also should be taken care of area I would like to invite the attention of by him. the hon. Minister. On this section from Karimganj to Badar_ pur and thence to One more thing I will say and I finish. Silchar, good drinking water is not In his Budget speech the hon. Minister available. Therefore, I would request the said that third class sleeper coaches will Railways to kindly supply good drinking be increased. In our part of the country, in water on this section. Why should this Assam, in the Assam Mail there is a third part be neglected, I do not know. class sleeper coach but it is generally found in a damaged condition. So people Another thing I want to say. This is a do not get into it. So, I would like to backward area and there are also those suggest that some more sleeper coaches troubles from Pakistan. So from the should be provided in that particular train, security point of view, I would like to the Assam Mail train. Thank you. stress this point and draw the 2473Bwdget (Railways), 1964-65 [ RAJYA SABHA ] General Discussion 2474 SHRI M. C. SHAH: (Gujarat): Mr. from now ginger themselves up to carry Vice-Chairman, I must thank you for more traffic in course of time. We know calling me and thereby enabling me to our Plans are going ahead. They are register my name for the next day, I mean proceeding ahead and as a result thereof on Saturday. traffic is bound to increase in course of time. Therefore the Railways should try THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI their very best to satisfy the anticipated ALI KHAN): Mr. Shah, you will 'be coming demand of goods traffic. Of given time on Saturday also. You will be course, for the time being, it is an easy the first speaker on that day. position, but it is going to be again a problem when there is this increase in goads traffic. SHRI M. C. SHAH: Thank you very much. I should like to join my friends in Another thing that we should appre- congratulating the Railway Ministry for ciate is that the goods are carried by the the good performance that they have Railways at, a comparatively cheap rate done and the promises that they have when compared to the roadways. So given for the current year. Surely one of more and more people will like to take the best things that the Raiway Board and advantage of the services of the Railways the Railway Ministry have done and for to book their goods in spite of the several which our congratulations are due to advantages that the Roadways offer. them is about the movement of goods Comparatively the Railways have done traffic. Goods traffic, We all know, was a very well in catering to this goods traffic great bottleneck. It was impossible for and therefore, in that respect I think our our Railways to carry the goods traffic Railway Ministry and the Railway Board that was offered to the satisfaction of the deserve our congratulations. persons who booked. It is very pleasing to note that not only have the Railways THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI been able to carry the goods offered, but AKBAR ALI KHAN) : Mr. Shah, you can they are now in a position to meet even continue your unfinished speech on any further demands that may be coming. Saturday. The House stands adjourned It is very fine thing. But I may say as has till Saturday, the 29th February, 11 A.M. been remarked by one of the Chambers of Commerce, this is not going to be a The House then adjourned at continuous thing, that this state of affairs five of the clock till eleven of will not continue for long as it is. This the clock on Saturday, the 29th will be a sort of cushion period and the February, 1964. Railways may even

GMGIPND—R.S.—1192 R-S -[J. C. No. 11884/63-64.]—2-6-64—604.