[Wednesday, 51h April, 1978) 4393

BILLS (3Y: ?i-4ritIsatinr Asrnmbtij INTRODUCTION AND FIRST READING Wednesday, the 5th April, 1978 - Suitors' Fund Act Amendment Bill. Bill introduced, on motion by Sir The SPEAKER (Mr Thompson) took the Charles Court (Premier), and read Chair at 4.30 p.m., and read prayers. a first time. 2. Aerial Spraying Control Act QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Amendment Bill. Postponement Bill introduced, on motion, by Mr Old (Minister for Agriculture), and THE SPEAKER (Mr Thompson): I desire to read a first time. announce that because the Government Printer was unable to print a notice paper for today, it 3. Murdoch University Act Amendment will not be possible for questions on notice to be Bill. taken. I am prepared to allow a few questions Bill introduced, on motion by Mr P. V. without notice. Jones (Minister for Education), and read a first time.

SEWAGE TREATMENT WORKS ADDRESS-IN-REPLY: SEVENTH DAY Shentan Park: Petition Motion Debate resumed, from the 41h April, on the MR MENSAROS (Floreat-vinister for following motion by Mr MacKinnon- Industrial Development) [4.33 p.m.]: As the member for Floreat, I present a petition from That the following Address-in-Reply to 2 118 residents of the metropolitan area His Excellency's Speech be agreed to- concerning the stench emanating from the sewage May it please Your Excellency: We, treatment works at Shenton Park. the Legislative Assembly of the The petition conforms with the Standing Parliament of the State of Western Orders of the Legislative Assembly, and I have Australia in Parliament assembled, beg certified accordingly. to express loyalty to our Most Gracious The SPEAKER: I direct that the petition be Sovereign, and to thank Your brought to the Table of the House. Excellency for the Speech you have been pleased to address to Parliament. (See petition No. 7). MR CARR (Geraldton) [4.50 p.m.1: At the outset of my remarks this afternoon I should like ELECTRICITY SUPPLIES to refer to a Government decision which has not been well received in my electorate of GeraLdton. Contributory Extension I refer to the decision by the Government to Scheme; Petition shorten the rock lobster fishing season by six MR McPHARLIN (Mt. Marshall) [4.34 p.m.]: weeks. I have a number of criticisms of this I have a petition from residents of the Dalwallinu decision and of the way the decision was made Shire area bearing the signatures of 79 petitioners which I should like to bring to the attention of the who request the Government to review the new House. policy relating to the contributory extension I should like to make the point that I agree scheme of the State Energy Commission. with the need for a reduction of fishing effort in The petition conforms with the Standing the rock lobster industry and that is appreciated Orders of the Legislative Assembly, and I have throughout all sections of the industry. There has certified accordingly. been expert advice which suggests that something The SPEAKER: I direct that the petition be like an 18 per cent reduction in the fishing effort brought to the Table of the House. is required. If there is to be a reduction of effort (See petition No. 8). there are a number of options as to how the effort should be reduced. Mr P. V. Jones: Who provided the figure of 18 QUEST IONS WITHOUT NOTICE per cent? Questions without notice were taken at this Mr CARR: I believe it was a Canadian expert stage. who was out here a year or two ago. 440 440[ASSEMBLY]

Mr P. V. Jones: That is right; Professor Capes, fishermen at the Abroihos Islands last year. The and he came up with the figure of 18 per cent? answer went on to say that it was fairly informal Mr CARR: That is my understanding. In and only about 100 fishermen were in attendance. bringing about the reduction of the fishing effort The reports I have received indicate that this a number of alternatives were open to the meeting was very informal and very brief and Government. Firstly, it could have introduced a very few Fishermen were able to attend. boat buy-back scheme, a scheme by which boats Mr P. V. Jones: That is not right at all. and pots belonging to fishermen wishing to leave Mr CARR: That is the answer the Minister the industry could be bought out of the industry gave in this House on behalf of the Minister for by a fund. The fund could be established by Fisheries and Wildlife. That is all I can go on. levying the catch within the industry, perhaps Mr P. V. Jones: The answer referred to the with Government assistance. When a Fisherman number of meetings at the Abrolhos Islands. wanted to leave the industry his pots could be bought out of the industry, thus reducing the Mr CARR: No, it did not. It referred to the effort. The second possibility would have been for fishermen within the Geraldton region. the Government to delicense some of the pots. For Mr P. V. Jones: The answer I gave was that one example, if a boat has a tOO-pot licence, and we meeting was held at the Abrolhos Islands; but it need an 18 per cent reduction, we could have was not the only meeting because in another reduced the number of pots for which that boat is answer to another question I indicated there was a licensed by I8 per cent. meeting at Geraldton. Mr Shalders: That would have caused serious Mr CARR: That is right; there was a seminar. problems for the Fishermen with a low number of The answer given was that one meeting was held pots who are only viable at this time. and then it goes on to mention the seminar which of Mr CARR: That would have been one of the was a research seminar. The main topics problems with that particular scheme. I am not discussion at this seminar were the life cycle of trying to argue too strongly for one option against the rock lobster and predators such as octopus, another. It seems to me that the Government has not a reduced Fishing effort. opted for one scheme far too quickly without Mr P. V. Jones: Do you not think that affects sufficient consultation. the industry? Mr P. V. Jones: That is not right. Mr CARR: I have checked the original question and it did relate to rock lobster and I will come to Mr CARR: That is right; fishermen in the Geraldton region, not just the that in a moment because I have details of the Abroihos Islands. I am left with the distinct consultations. impression that insufficient consultation took Mr P. V. Jones: You are suggesting that one of place. the possibilities could have been a buy-back Mr P. V. Jones: It is an impression, not a fact. scheme, but such a scheme was considered and is still being considered by the Government. Mr CARR: I would be delighted for the Minister to prove the facts to be wrong; but they Mr CARR: I am suggesting that the are certainly based on the answers he gave. The Government's decision was made without much Minister does not seem to be very interested in consultation. The third possibility would have consultation, because recently he went to the been to enlarge the legal size so that some rock Abrolhos Islands for three days out of season. He lobsters which are currently of size would then be was prepared to go there, but not at a time when thrown back as being too small. the rock lobster fishermen were going to be there If the Government intended to opt for the to consult with him. His time in Geraldton was so shortening of the season there were options brief that there was no opportunity for the available other than the particular six weeks that fishermen to speak with him. The Minister did were chosen. There is certainly a fair amount of not attend a public meeting which took place and feeling in the Geraldton region that the six weeks which a large number of fishermen attended. He shortening of the season should have been the six sent the Director of Fisheries to represent him. It weeks prior to the 15th March opening of the seems that there should be a great deal more Abrolhos Islands season. It seems to me that this consultation and more concern shown by the decision was made with very little consultation. Government. I asked a question in this House and was given I should like to look quickly at the effects of the an answer that the Rock Lobster Advisory short season. The first effect is unemployment. I Committee met once with the rock lobster mentioned this last night and I will not go into it [Wednesday, 5th April, 1978]44 441

in great detail now, but there are deckhands and is concerned. I am quite sure the Government factory workers who would normally have been does not know in which direction it is heading. It out of a job for three months, who will now be out has taken this measure apparently with the idea of a job for 41h months. Not only will people in of reducing the fishing effort by I8 per cent. Geraldton be badly affected by this decision, but Mr P. V. Jones: You had better check that there are people living in coastal settlements who figure. will be affected also. There are settlements Mr CARR: I understand that there will be only situated on the coast where the owners of small a 6 per cent reduction in fishing effort as a result shops, hotels, and small businesses rely heavily on of this measure. It looks as if further reductions in the fishing trade and the amount of time that fishing effort will be needed and maybe the fishing trade will be available to them has been Government will come up with a buy-back reduced by 1h months, hence harming the scheme. I certainly hope the Government will economy of a number of those little towns. spend a great deal more time consulting with the The very short notice that was given has had industry next time. another effect on these fishermen. Those who had I want to turn my attention to two Federal bought new boats on the basis of certain Government election promises which have shown expectations, in some cases have found themselves themselves to be empty. The first one I refer to is in trouble meeting their commitments. The the so-called fuel equalisation scheme which, of reduced effort has not really occurred anyway, course, is not an equalisation scheme and is not because a number of the fishermen increased their going to equalise prices. It is a scheme designed to fishing effort during the last couple of months. provide a small subsidy to some places throughout Normally a number of the islands fishermen who Australia and a document is available listing fish on the coast in November, December, and about 10000 localities throughout Australia into January have a lay Off for a couple of which will benefit from this subsidy. In Western months, or at least a month, to prepare for the Australia it is a matter of concern to us. Perth Abroihos Islands season. This year they worked and the surrounding areas, including Pinjarra and the coast much longer to make up for the six Mandurah, will receive no subsidy at all. weeks' closure. Ports throughout Western Australia and places Mr P. V. Jones: You are making it sound as near ports again receive no subsidy. Areas though the industry was not aware of the situated near railheads will receive very little discussion and interest in reducing the fishing subsidy. The effect of this measure will be that effort. most people in Western Australia will receive no Mr CARR: But the decision was made just like benefit at all, or will receive less than Ic per litre that. The decision was made very quickly. by way of subsidy. I should like to read out a Mr P. V. Jones: You mentioned the buy-back number of areas throughout this State which will scheme, but if you were close to the industry you receive no benefit whotsoever from the so-called would know the industry was participating in the fuel equalisation scheme. These places are: discussions. Albany, Bunbury, Busselton, Collie, Harvey, Denmark, Geraldton, Carnarvon, Esperance, Mr CARR: I am much closer to the industry Mt. Barker, than is the Minister who has just spoken and in Port H-edland, Broome, Derby, and fact I am much closer to the industry than is the Wyndham. Minister for Fisheries and Wildlife, except when There will be no benefit in any of those places. he has little holiday trips over to the islands. I I think there is a suggestion that fuel prices in want to make it clear I support a buy-back those towns are already at the same level as they scheme. are in the metropolitan area. I can assure members that in my electorate Mr P. V. Jones: That is what there is a Professor Capes difference of 5c or has been looking at. 6c a litre, and we are gaining no benefit. Many other places are even worse off. .Mr CARR: I believe it is the most viable I will give a few examples of the situation scheme. throughout the agricultural areas. At Jarrahwood Mr P. V. Jones: On the basis of his report-a and Boddington the subsidy will be .c per litre; buy-back scheme. at Margaret River, Salmon Gums, Northam, and Mr CARR: If the Government intends to opt Guilderton it will be 0.3c, while at Augusta and for a buy-back scheme, why has it gone for a Merredin the amount will be 0.5c. shorter season? I do not think the Government So the list goes on. Places a long way from knows which way it is going as far as this matter Perth have large differences in the fuel prices and 442 442[ASSEMBLY] are gaining next to no benefit from the scheme. Whitlamn regime when vaster sums than ever We have some rather illogical subsidies. For before were granted to local authorities. example, the subsidy at Mt. Magnet is 2.3c. A Mr Rushton: Don't get on to that again! little further on, at Cue, it is 2.7c, while even further away and in a more remote Mr CARRt: The Minister cannot deny that! I area-Meekatharra-it is I.9c. Why will be fair enough to say that subsequent to the Meekatharra has a smaller subsidy when the Whitlamn Government's action, the Fraser petrol must go through the other places to get to Government appeared as if it would continue the Meekatharra isbeyond my understanding. policy of granting an increasing amount of money to local authorities. If I can be fair enough to say It is an extraordinary scheme and was that Whitlamn started giving the money and submitted by the Federal Government during the Fraser continued giving it, then why cannot the election but it has done nothing to achieve what Minister admit that Whitlam did give more than was promised. It seems to me the electorate was was ever previously given? sold a pup ,during the December election campaign. Mr Tonkin: Because he is too small!. Sir Charles Court: Will you oppose the Mr CARR: I am prepared to say I was quite legislation when we introduce it? happily looking forward to the fulfilment of the promise that local government would receive 2 per Mr CARR: I think the answer would be a cent. It is true that this was to be done over three much more comprehensive piece of legislation years from the present amount of 1.52 per cent. which really did go some way towards equalising Now that promise has been deferred; for how fuel prices instead of the Government mouthing long, we do not know. promises at election times, promises which provide very little benefit when put into effect. Mr Rushton: You forget- On the other hand, apart from the measure Mr CARR: The election promise was that it which is supposedly reducing the price of petrol would be done during three years. There would be by a small amount in some places, the Liberal three steps-one, two, three. That has been Government has increased the price of petrol deferred. throughout Australia by virtue of its crude oil Sir Charles Court: Do not distort the situation. policy. Its Budget decision last year increased fuel The Prime Minister has confirmed that the by I Ic a gallon to everyone throughout the election undertaking will be honoured. country and a policy announced at the same time Mr CARR: I do not know what newspaper the will mean a further 10c a gallon increase each Premier reads, or the broadcasts to which he year for the next four years. listens, but the only communication I have had is In the light of all this it is apparent not very through the ABC which reported that Senator much benefit will be gained from the present Carrick said in Adelaide that the promise had scheme. It certainly will not remove the been deferred. inefficiencies in petroleum marketing revealed by Sir Charles Court: The commitment was made the Collins Royal Commission. Only last week the for the life of the Parliament. Australian Automobile Association made representations to the Prices Justification Mr CARR: That was not- Tribunal pointing out that it considered these Sir Charles Court: That was what it was. Look inefficiences to be costing the industry $160 for yourself. million a year. To put it another way, the Mr CARR: I ask the Premier whether that inefficiency is costing the Australian motorist assurance was made subsequent to Senator more than leca litre. Carrick's announcement that the promise had The next item to which I wish to refer is the been deferred. Federal Government election promise to provide 2 Sir Charles Court: Senator Carrick's statement per cent of the income tax to local authorities. was factual and in accordance with the Subsequently the Government deferred that undertaking given by the Prime Minister. promise, and this is a matter of very grave Mr CARR: The Premier's interpretation is concern to local authorities throughout Australia beyond me. and, of course, Western Australia. It appeared to me that local government in recent years had Sir Charles Court: You read the undertaking. been doing very well financially from grants from Mr CARR: I want this Government to take Federal and State Governments. Local some sort of action-to be protesting. On opening government experienced a new era during the night the Minister said that he would not protest. [Wednesday, 5th April, 19781 4434

Mr Rushton: Because I had no need to do so. Mr Rushton: We have that in the Labor Party. Mr CARR: He said the Government would Mr CARR: Oh change the record! He warned fulfil the promise when it was appropriate. I want there were strong forces in the bureaucracy in to know why it is not appropriate in this year's Canberra who believed local government was Budget. It was appropriate to make the promise in rating at levels lower than were appropriate. I November and December that steps would be know the Minister disagrees with that as do I and taken in three Budgets. Why is it not now Dr John Power. However, Dr Power warned that appropriate to put the promise into effect and there were those elements in the community and provide an increase in this year's Budget? I ask he suggested then that the local government the Minister that question. associations should combine to upgrade their It is good enough for other Ministers to protest secretariat and establish a strong lobby in to the Federal Government when something goes Canberra. He made the point that the Secretariat wrong. The Minister for Transport is not of the Australian Council of Local Government backward in asking for money, so why does not Associations has a miniscule budget based on the Minister for Local Government show more Canberra standards. interest in his portfolio and stand up more I say that with several hundred local authorities strongly on the matter? He claims to be throughout Australia it would not need a large concerned about local government, but I am contribution from each to establish a strong lobby convinced this is not so. The Minister for Local to demand the money which belongs to it. Government will accept anything on the altar of this disastrous so-called new federalism. Mr Rushton: Explain why it should be demanding in the Federal scene. Sir Charles Court: This Minister for Local Government is the best this State has ever had! Mr CARR: The State Government is not Mr CARR: I protest strongly and call on the making strong representations to gain more from Government to do so. I also call on the Local the Federal Government. I quote the cattlemen's Government Association and the Country Shire union-representing a relatively small number of Councils' Association to protest about the people-which, by establishing a strong lobby, deferral. has made considerable gains from Canberra. Sir Charles Court: All you do is protest. Why Instead of waffling on here about centralism not do something positive? and so on, the Minister should be advocating that local government upgrade itself so that it can Mr CARR: Local government has a better be represented in Canberra. responsibility to upgrade its secretariat in Canberra. In the remaining minutes available to me I wish to touch briefly on the question of dress in this Mr Rushton: You want to centralise the whole Chamber. of local government. A member: Or lack of it! Mr CARR: Here we go again with the Minister's favourite record. I am not saying that Mr CARR: It is pure coincidence that I am all local government should be centralised in raising this matter on the day after you have Canberra. acquired a new wig, Mr Speaker. Sir Charles Court: Not much! In the Chamber I have always tried to dress in Mr CARR: I am saying that the organisation the clothes I find comfortable and appropriate. in Canberra, which was established there by local This applies to functions I attend outside the government to represent local government, should Chamber as well. I dress in clothes which I hope be expanded so that more adequately and fully it are respectful to other people with whom I am can represent local government. It might have associated and I think that generally I wear surprised the Minister to hear of this deferral, but clothes which are in accordance with the values of it did not surprise everyone else. I will quote a the community at large. lecture given in July last year by Dr John Power Therefore I was very disappointed on the 16th who was then the Director of the Australian March to receive a letter from you, Mr Speaker, Centre for Local Government Studies at the advising me that the clothes I was wearing that Canberra College of Advanced Education. He is day in the Chamber were not of an acceptable one of the Australian authorities on local standard. That was the second occasion on which government and at the seminar he warned that I I4ad worn a safari suit in the Chamber. I was there were many people in the Canberra wearing the suit as I believe safari suits are meant bureaucracy who were anti-local government. to be worn, and certainly in the manner in which 444 444[ASSEMBLY] they are usually worn; namely, with an open- in the matter, and if the Speaker said that it is necked shirt over the collar of the suit. appropriate for members to wear open-necked The first occasion I wore a safari suit was on shirts with safari suits, it would be acceptable to the opening night of Parliament and no mention the House. The power of initiative is with the was made then by you about the fact, and I Speaker in this matter should he decide to presumed the dress was acceptable. I might say- exercise it. The SPEAKER: Order! May I put you right on One of the silliest aspects about dress in this that point? In order not to embarrass the Parliament is that we have three sets of stupid honourable member and others in the same rules. position in front of our invited guests, I did not Mr Sodeman: That is your opinion. take the honourable member to task. The fact that I said nothing at the time did not mean that Mr CARR: Yes, I am giving my opinion. the dress was acceptable. That is something which Mr Tonkin: What else do we do in this place? is the responsibility of members of the Chamber, That was a fatuous remark. and all I am doing is interpreting their wishes when I answer questions or lay down the rules as I Mr CARR: In this Chamber members are understand them. If you or any other member required to wear a shirt and tie. In fact, I noticed wishes to change the rules, let him give notice of a from your answer, Mr Speaker, we are expected substantive motion, have it debated and carried td wear long-sleeved shirts, and a coat is optional. by the House, and then members may come in in However, I understand, it is permissible to wear a their singlets if that be the majority decision. roll-necked jumper underneath a coat. One Mr Skidmore: Can we have little designs on the wonders why a tie and shirt or a roll-necked singlets? jumper under a coat is permissible and an open- Mr CARR: I can assure you, Mr Speaker, I necked shirt is not. Perhaps it is thought that would not have been embarrassed if you had members of the House might become excited at raised the matter on opening night. Possibly it the sight of a few hairs exposed at the neck. would have been yourself you would have been In the Legislative Council we have another set frightened of embarrassing. On that very warm of rules. In that Chamber a coat is a must; the night I received a number of compliments President insists on it. A member does not have to regarding the Clothes I was wearing. I was told wear a shirt or tie in another place, but he must they appeared to be sensible and comfortable in wear a coat. That seems to me to be quite strange. the prevailing conditions. I wonder how many In the dining room we have another set of rules, people approached you, Mr Speaker, on that although they are substantially the same as the warm opening night and suggested that your rules applying in the Legislative Council. One is clothes were cool and appropriate for that required to wear a coat in the dining room, but I weather! have seen people wearing shorts. I know many of Anyway, I was disappointed with the answer to our guests are embarrassed by the rules applying my question when you advised the House on the in the dining room. A person who is not wearing a 21st March that I would not be allowed to wear a coat can usually obtain one from the House safari suit in the manner usually acceptable; Controller, and on occasions we have seen some namely, with an open-necked shirt over the collar peculiar sights, such as a small slight person of the suit. wearing shorts topped by a coat supplied by our It seems to me personally that our rules are Deputy Controller, and which is about five sizes stupid and out of date; and that they are not too big. I feel this situation causes much more practical in the hot weather we encounter in this embarrassment than would be caused by people place at this time of the year. not wearing coats. It seems to me, Mr Speaker, that while you Members of the Legislative Council come here have said that the rules are completely within the to listen to debates, and vice versa. Surely one set hands of the members, your answer to my of rules should apply throughout Parliament question Qevertheless implied that the Speaker's House. The other point I wish to raise is that of guidance had been sought on a number of equality. Would the Minister for Lands be occasions and that when the Speaker has given a permitted to take her place in the Chamber direction in a matter it must be taken to be the dressed in a bikini, or is she trusted to wear what attitude of the House unless the House otherwise she considers is appropriate and sensible? decides. The answer gives the impression that the Obviously she is trusted to do this, so why are not Speaker does have a considerable amount of say other members trusted in this way? [Wednesday, 5th April, 1978] 4454

Sir Charles Court: The people who have had The politicians who are probably to blame for their farms burnt out will be very impressed with the situation have tried to put the blame onto the your speech tonight. medical profession. This is entirely unfair. The Mr Tonkin: Take your coat off! blame should be put where it belongs. Health costs have been spiralling without abatement. In Several members interjected. Western Australia health costs have increased The SPEAKER: Order! over 100 per cent every three years since 1965, Mr CARR: I want to conclude by referring to a and that is without having regard for inflation. famous remark made by Martin Luther King. In This means that from 1965 until the present time, view of the comments made by the member for the cost of health in this State has been rising by Greenough last night, it is appropriate to quote 100 per cent in any three consecutive years. What the original. Martin Luther King said- a terrible admission! What a shocking admission I have a dream that one day my four little that health costs have risen so much. children will grow up to live in a world where Probably I have failed in my attempts to get they will be judged not by the colour of their this message across. I have tried to point out that skin but by the content of their character. we were and still are expanding at far too great a 1 would like to paraphrase that quote, and I pace; at a pace far greater than is necessary. My certainly mean no disrespect to Martin Luther pleas seem to have fallen on deaf ears. King because I realise our subject of dress is During my fi rst three yea rs i n much less important than his subject of racism. Parliament-from 1971 to 1974-my pleas fell on My comment is- the deaf ears of the Tonkin Government, and now I have a hope that one day this Parliament they are falling on the deaf ears of the Court will grow up to become a place where Government during its second term. It gives me members will be judged not by their mode of no pleasure to say, "I told you so; you should have dress but by the integrity of their heeded what I told you." In all fairness, some contributions. attention should have been paid to my comments, I ask you, Mr Speaker, to give consideration to and shortly I will tell the House about the amount the matter of dress in the Chamber, and perhaps of attention they received, and this was precious to give a different ruling. little. The SPEAKER: I advise the member to follow We must attack the problem where it the suggestion I made earlier. If he wants to commences. I take exception to the fact that so amend the standard of dress in this Chamber, he many people-politicians on the Federal scene may move a motion to that effect. and on the State scene-are prepared to bash the doctors. Taken as a percentage of the population, DR DADOIJR (Subiaco) t5.18 p.m.]: Recently I would say that members of the medical throughout Australia we have heard a great deal profession are more humane than are the of criticism, and I think very unfair criticism, of members of any other profession. There are the medical profession in general. I take exception stinkers amongst the medical profession and there to this criticism for the simple reason that the are those who charge too much; those who abuse majority of the members of the medical profession the system and welch on the rest of us. However, are ethical people. There are always a few who go the majority of its members are beyond reproach. overboard, a few who overcharge, but this and we could not say that about the members of happens in every walk of life. many professions. I am proud to be a member of Let us look at the overall picture. I have been the medical profession, and it does not give me telling this Parliament now for the last seven any pleasure to hear the profession knocked. years that the cost of health has been rising at far I have spoken on this same subject many times too great a pace and that certain steps should be over the last seven years and I have tried to taken to prevent this. My comments were made in suggest ways to attack it from different angles. the best interests of the people of Australia, and However, I made no progress. In fact, I wonder in particular of the people of Western Australia. whether the forum of Parliament is of any use Western Australia must always be the best. We whatever. I do not mean to denigrate Parliament must have more hospital beds than everybody else but I wonder what I have achieved by standing up and our hospitals must be the most luxurious and here year after year trying to suggest ways to the most costly in the country. So we have the solve this problem. Only token notice has been most luxurious, the most costly, and the most taken of my remarks. We hear that such-and-such utilised beds in Australia. We have more than is will be done, but nothing ever happens. This necessary and this is the real tragedy. happened firstly while the Tonkin Government 446 446[ASSEM BLY] was in power and the present Leader of the Dr DADOUR: Yes, I said that there are Opposition was the Minister for Health. He was a always some rotten eggs. failure in that position, and I will say no more Mr Harman: And do they smell. than that about him. Dr DADOUR: There are not very many of Mr Pearce: Nonsense! them-about five only. Dr DADOUR: No nonsense about it. Mr H-arman: One thousand were involved. Mr Pearce: Tell us about it now. Dr DADOUR: But how many lay people Dr DADOUR: I am sad to say that I can tell compared with the number of doctors involved? the member what went on, and it does not make Mr Harman: Specialists, too. me happy to see what is going on. Dr DADOUR: That is even worse; some of Mr Barnett: What do you think of the present them are the worst grabbers of the lot, as well as one? the hospital administrators. Dr DADOUR: I was prepared to leave the Let us move on. Mr Hunt has been abusing the present one alone, but he is going on in the same doctors. The doctors have received 18 per cent of merry way. He had many difficulties last year. that $5400 million. Has anyone ever taken time and so I left him alone. He has this year to make out to see what has happened to the other 82 per Up for last year. I am trying to be fair. cent? What is happening to the $250 million spent by the State Government? That is one- Mr Tonkin: He breathes a sigh of relief'. quarter of our gross expenditure. Mr B. T. Burke: Royal Perth Hospital has Mr Bertram: It is largely wasted. never grown so much as it has under this Government. Dr DADOUR: That money goes mostly to the teaching hospitals, and that is the root of the Dr DADOUR: Let us look at the running costs whole problem. The politicians have been trying of health. I have here the figures for 1976-77. to throw the blame onto the doctors, and now it is Federally $5400 million was spent on health, and squarely back into their own court; it is their own that represents 10.6 per cent of the gross national total incompetence and dishonesty because that is expenditure. This means that the running costs of where the majority of the money is going. I have health are 10.6 per cent of our gross national continually warned this Parliament about the expenditure. The figures are even worse on the problem and the fact that it has been building up. State scene. Nobody can deny that; in fact, it could be said I Mr Barnett: Under this Minister? have been paranoid about it. However, no-one can Dr DADOIJR: Under the Government. Since I deny that I have been consistent. I have been have been here, in excess of 25 per cent of our extremely consistent, and now the truth is coming total State expenditure has been on health. out. What has happened is the result of bureaucratic Government. Mr Harman: Those figures don't mean anything unless they are compared with the Mr Bertram: Hear, hear! figures for other places. What are the Dr DADOUR: I have no doubt at all in my comparisons? mind that the Public Health Department and the Dr DADOUR: I can tell the honourable Medical Department in this State are member that we spend more on health than do the mismanaging our health services. Governments in the Eastern States, although I do Mr Ridge: That is an expression of opinion. As not know the exact amounts. I will come to that a member, you have a right to express your views matter soon, but I am trying to get over a point here, but it has been a pretty rare occasion for here. you to come to me or the department to give us the benefit of your so-called expert advice. We hear a lot from the Federal Minister for Health (Mr Hunt) who is really being led by the Dr DADOUR: I ask the Minister not to Federal Leader of the Opposition. The Leader of interfere any more. the Opposition is the man who introduced Several members interjected. Medibank and he is quite paranoid about it. What The SPEAKER: Order! Will the member a terrible admission to have been responsible for resume his seat. There is far too much audible Medibank! He has been led up the garden path. conversation and too many interjections. The What do the doctors get out of it? member is a fair way from the Hansard reporters Mr Bateman: The ones over East don't get a and from the Chair- bad little cut out of it. Mr B. T. Burke: That is no accident! [Wednesday. 5th April, 1978]47 447

The SPEAKER: -and I am sure (bat the we have more teaching hospital beds than we Hansard reporters, like me, are having difficulty actually need. hearing the member over the extraneous This is a tragedy. It costs over $200 per bed per interjections and noise. day in Western Australian teaching hospitals. Mr Tonkin: Why do they not make you come to That is over $100000 per bed per annum, so for the table? every eight or nine beds in a teaching hospital, we Dr DADOUR: All I ask is that members are talking about a cost of some SI million per opposite let me get on with my speech. They are year. trying to make me have a go at the Minister. Mr Tonkin: What is the cost in nonteaching Mr Tonkin: Why do they not make you hospitals? Minister for Health? Dr DADOUR: The cost is much lower in such Dr DADOUR: I do not want to be Minister for hospitals. Health. Mr B. T. Burke: How does the Western Mr Tonkin: You have declined the offer, have Australian situation compare with other States? you? Dr DADOUR: Our costs are much greater. Dr DADOUR: That really makes me laugh! I Mr B. T. Burke: Why? think I had better get in the dog house. The Dr DADOUR: It is because of the sheer growth of these teaching hospitals has been unnecessary luxury of these establishments. permitted to escalate without any real inhibitions. It is a completely amoral situation. The State is Mr Ridge: That is not correct! bleeding the people of their income by means of Dr DADOUR: It is correct. unfair taxation. Mr Ridge: It depends on how these costs are Let us look at how much money is spent assessed and what charges are included. building these unnecessarily luxurious teaching Dr DADOUR: What I say is correct; the hospitals. Where does the money come from? A Minister can have his say later. little comes from the Federal Government and the Mr Ridge: Stick to the facts. balance from the State Government. Where does the State Government find the money? The Dr DADOUR: I am sticking to the figures I majority, of course, comes from Internal Revenue. have been able to obtain from the Eastern States. That means all the service charges are in excess of Mr Harman: You are getting their blood up! what they are purported to be. The people are Dr DADOUR: That is all right; let them be. being heavily taxed to build these teaching The running costs of these hospitals is the most hospitals. important single influence on our health Let us look at the amount of money which has expenditure. Health must be treated as simply been spent on building hospitals over the last few another item of expenditure; we should leave years in Western Australia. In 1974-75, the emotions out of it. But do not ever blame doctors Commonwealth contributed $4.3 million and the for what has been spent on health, because it is State $26.1 million, making a total spent on not the doctors' fault. I agree that some doctors hospitals of $30.42 million. In 1975-76 the have taken advantage of the situation, but so have Commonwealth contributed $11.9 million and the many lay staff; in addition, departments have State $23.51 million, making a total of $35.41 been overspending large amounts of money. It million spent on hospitals. During the year 1976- must be patently obvious to even the stupidest 77, the Commonwealth contributed $12 million, person that overexpenditure has occurred and is while the State's contribution was $28.9 million, still occurring. It seems the Government has very resulting in a total of some $41 million spent on little control over this matter. hospitals last year in this State. This year, the I warned my Government both in the party Commonwealth contribution is to be only some $6 room and in Parliament that this situation was million, so probably the total spent will be down a developing and I provided solutions to the little on previous years. problem. However, not one of those solutions or From where does this money come? It is the my advice has ever been heeded. The Minister State's money. We are spending money on asked why I did not approach the department. I luxurious items which are not necessary. The have no access to the medical records in the sheer luxury of some of these teaching hospitals department. What access do I have? They simply is not necessary. Western Australia is far become immediately suspicious if I go near the ahead of the other States in the cost per bed, yet place! The Minister knows as well as I do that it is 448 448[ASSEMBLY] an impractical suggestion. What can I possibly Mr Barnett: Are not the doctors responsible for gain by going to the department? that? Mr Skidmore: You could have a ride in the lift. Dr DADOUR: The beds are available, so the Dr DADOUR: That is about all, and I would beds are filled; that is why we have such a high be lucky if I did not get stuck in the lift. Do not admission rate. I repeat: There are more beds let us muck around with this matter. I am led to than are needed. I am led to believe it is even as believe we have many more teaching hospital beds high as 9.1. Why do we have such a high than are necessary, yet more beds are in the admission rate? It means that for every five proces of being provided at the moment. This is a members present, one will end up in hospital this terrible, horrible admission from a member on the year. Government side. Mr Barnett: There are a lot of pressures Mr Barnett: Do you have any idea of how many brought to bear because of unemployment and the teaching hospital beds we should have? workers' compensation situation which could have something to do with it. Dr DADOUR: I do not wish to go into the precise number because I am not in a position to Dr DADOUR: I am referring to the year 1976, provide the member for Rockingham with so do not come that bull with me. The member for accurate figures. However, I do know there are Rockingham is a little out of date; he should not quite a number of teaching hospital beds over and come that one. above the requirement. Has the reason for this statement been Mr Barnett: Would you say it would be 20 per investigated? I say that it could not have been cent in excess? because if the statement had been analysed there would have been an immediate halt to the hospital Dr DADOUR: It could be as high as 20 per building programme. That is a horrible admission cent or 30 per cent, but I cannot be sure. I because we in this State pride ourselves on being understand that between 1972 and 1977, one of healthy people. I keep asking myself what we are the teaching hospitals improved its staff to in- doing to curtail this spending. We are not doing patient ratio from five to seven. I am also led to an ything to stop the building but we are also believe that the doctor to in-patient ratio at one of doing nothing to stop spending to keep these beds. our teaching hospitals is one doctor to every 1.3 Certain people will react in in-patients. That means for every 10 doctors there a token and hurt are 13 in-patients, or roughly one doctor to each way to what I have said. They will try to say my patient. The lowest paid doctor in the figures are incorrect. But one thing which they cannot say is incorrect-and which is my whole establishment receives $15 000 per annum plus purpose in speaking-is that the blame rests fairly overtime, which can run into an additional and squarely on the heads of the politicians. $2000. Therefore, it can readily be seen the teaching hospitals are involving the State in a Mr Ridge: Yourself included. great deal of expenditure. It leads one to wonder Dr DADOUR: My word, myself included, whether this should be the case. because I have failed to get the dumb, dumb I wish to refer now to the Llewellyn- Davies- message over. Kintail report which was produced in 1976 and Mr Ridge: That is perhaps because you have which, I am led to believe, is still secret. I have not done it very well. been able to obtain a copy of the document and I Dr DADOUR: I take the blame for it; there is was very surprised and upset to note that the no need for the Minister to get hurt. He was just projection of population for three areas was trying to incite me more. The blame rests fairly distinctly incorrect. This data was supplied by and squarely on the three Ministers who have working parties established by the teaching held the position since I have been a member of hospitals. I wonder just how accurate all these this place-the present Leader of the Opposition, statements are. I wish to make only one quote Mr Baxter, and the present Minister. The blame from this report. It is as follows- can go on the lot of them. They have shown Numbers of hospital admissions are in inertia and a failure to get moving on the subject. excess of 200 per annum per thousand Mr Ridge: It will take more than what you are population, which is one of the highest saying to hurt me. admission rates in the world. Dr DADOUR: I am saying what I know to be That represents an annual admission rate of true. After I have finished speaking there will be 200 000 people for our population of around one a token reaction. Somewhere in my speech I have million. Why is this? Are we a sick nation? probably said something that is not quite accurate [Wednesday, 5th April, 1978)49 449 and that will be pulled to pieces; and so nothing consisting of three to five people-no more-and will be done again. But I do not think so. I really they must be beyond the political arena. We must believe the people will not accept this any longer. not get the abortion of a commission which the When they find that their hospital benefit Minister for Health in the Tonkin Government contributions are rising, not because of the doctor produced in the form of the Teaching Hospitals part of it but because of the hospitalisation being Commission, which was a shocker. so expensive, they will stop mucking about and I go even so far as to say that we should not listen to what I am saying. have teaching hospitals as we know them at Mr Speaker, we are spending all this money present. I would divide the larger hospitals such and it will go up by 30 per cent or 40 per cent this as Royal Perth Hospital, Sir Charles Gairdner year. The $5 400 million on the Federal scene and Hospital, and now Fremantle Hospital into 300- the $250 million on the State scene will rise by bed hospitals with two or three on the same site about 30 per cent. The latest figures I have are under different administrations. Members may for the year 1976-77, For the year 1977-78 the say that the administration will increase but it figures will be in excess of those Figures by at will not. There are so many administrators in the least 30 per cent. What does all this money we are existing hierarchy that the situation is just stupid. spending avail us? We are all going to die I would use these 300-bed hospitals as teaching younger and we are not going to live any longer hospitals and all new hospitals would not have because the money has been spent incorrectly. It more than 300 beds-preferably fewer than has been spent on treating disease rather than on 300--so that every person who works in an the prevention of disease which is where we establishment can know every other person who is should be spending the money. I keep saying this working there. to this Parliament but I do not seem to get Three hundred beds is the optimum size for a anywhere. hospital. Above that size things start to get Mr Ridge: You are not reading the statistics topheavy and Parkinson's Law operates. If we very well because more money is being spent on keep hospitals to 300 beds patient care will come preventive medicine than ever before. first; and it must come first. In some of our teaching hospitals patient care is not comning Dr DADOUR: I want to hear about it. I wanit first-teaching comes first and patient care comes to hear that some of the money has been set aside second. This is a terrible admission and it is for preventive medicine. I want to see value for inherently wrong. be done to improve the our money. Nothing will problem are, firstly, the situation because for seven years now I have seen My answers to the crushing of the bureaucracy and, secondly, the nothing done to overcome the problem; and I do formation of a health commission and the not know why people are frightened to tackle it. breaking !p1sS-exisdiig. establishments which have The way we are going at the moment our more than 300 beds into 300-bed hospitals parliamentary, system must fail and in 20 years' although the hospitals may physically be in the time the member for Fremantle may be our next same area. I would run them as different hospitals Czar because we do not seem to be getting and use them as teaching hospitals. I would have anywhere here. The answer to the problem 'is to brain surgery in one hospital, heart surgery in come back to basic priorities for what is needed in another, and so on, until we have one hospital for regard to health and to leave emotion out of it as each speciality with their higher expertise much as possible. This will mean the crushing of throughout the metropolitan area, with a free the bureaucracy. There is no "may he" about this. interchange of patients. The bureaucracy has taken over completely in this The numbers of people supposedly working in area; we seem to be floundering and getting the teaching hospitals have been built up for the nowhere. following reasons: Extra residents' jobs have been The problem should be taken out of the Created for the extra residents coming out of our political and departmental arenas. We should university for the first year of preregistration have a hospitals commission independent of practice. Then more residents' jobs have been politics and of the department and answerable created for doctors coming from other States and only to the Minister and it should be similar to from overseas. Doctors are still definitely coming the Hospitals and Charities Commission in from overseas. Late last year in the British Victoria. That will be the answer to the problem Medical Journal there was an advertisement for but at the beginning of the operations of this doctors to come to Perth and it was exactly the commission we must be extremely careful that we same advertisement as that which appeared in get the right people. I envisage a commission magazines the previous year when we kicked up a 450 450[ASSEMBLY]

fuss about it in this Parliament. Nothing was done improved facilities. They may need these facilities and we have more of these jobs advertised. but all I can say is, "beware" and remember One The third matter of concern is that all honorary Flew Over Ihe Cuckoo's Nest. Their staff has doctors in our hospitals now are forced to be paid. increased by 233 this year and I wonder why. They are no longer honorary but must receive Another area of concern is the Public Health payment. I think there are a couple of exceptions Laboratories and the main problem here is where doctors have refused to take payment and duplication. The laboratories duplicate much of refuse to lose their honorary status but the the private sector work. The laboratories' are majority have been forced to accept payment. spreading like a cancer under the pretence of Let us look at the nursing situation. We have being decentralised, The Public Health student nurses spending more time in the Laboratories employ an extra 219 people this classrooms. I do not say there is anything wrong year. In 1974 1 attended a committee at the with that as they have mare to learn flow than in Queen Elizabeth 11 Medical Centre where the days gone by. However, more people are now Director of the Public Health Laboratories and being employed to cover the wards so we have a the university's Professor of Pathology were build-up of student nurses in the establishment. interviewed. These two men are located in the We also have a build-up in nursing same building and I made a recommendation at administration and nursing ward administration. the committee meeting that their two departments We have a greater number of people employed in should be joined, firstly for economic reasons and this area than in years past. Our establishment secondly because we would still have the people at was once described to me by a nursing sister as the top together which means we have that extra the best in the world. I corrected her and said it bit of expertise available. / was the worst. I.submitted this recommendation to the The third area I wish to mention is the Premier and he chose to ignore it. At that time in paramedical Field. This is an area where the State 1974 my proposition would have saved $2 to $4 Government seems to have no liaison, or very million a year. I wonder how much it would save little jurisdiction, over the tertiary institutions and today. this is so very, very wrong. Here we have demand equalling supply instead of supply equalling These are some or the things I have been trying demand. We have too many paramedical people to achieve over the last seven years. I have been turned out by universities and technical colleges. trying to improve Government management in the We get too many physiotherapists, occupational health Field and to reduce its spending of moneys. therapists, social workers, and pharmacists. It is obvious that the people in charge have not including ward pharmacists. We therefore have to done very much at all otherwise they would not make demand equal spI instead of vice versa have permitted the hospitals to continue in the and so we have a liite market. If we had manner they have and will continue to do so. The controlled numbers being tukned out in this area situation will be worse if something is not done we would not have to emplo these people where now. they are not needed, as present. we do. Let us consider what has been done. A staff All these people I have ment ned are required ceiling has been put on some of the teaching to have secretarial and cleric assistants plus hospitals which means they cannot employ certain domestics to look after them. S it can be seen staff in certain areas without approval. how the numbers have built up. Mr Ridge: All of it. I think the greatest need for cone rn of all is In Dr DADOLJR: Did you say "balls"? the three levels of administratioi that is, the medical, nursing, and lay administration. These Mr Ridge; I said "All of it." 1 do not use the are the areas where we find the empire builders. type of language you seem to be accustomed to These people say, "If there is money available using in this House. why should we not grab it and be in the sweep Dr DADOUR: I am led to believe that no too?" So we find everyone taking as much as he money can be spent without ministerial approval can get. This is the tragedy of the situation and, on the north wing of the Royal Perth Hospital in as I said, it is in this area where we find the the member for Balcatta's electorate, In 1974-75, schemers and empire builders we do not want. $104 million was spent on it, in 1975-76 the Recently we have heard members of the Mental figure was $1.16 million, and I do not know how Health Department indicating they want a cut of much was spent in 1976-77 or how much will be the chop too. They are putting in a bid for spent in 1977-78. [Wednesday, Sib April, 1978] 4515

Mr B. T. Burke: I am worried they wilt be Dr DADOUR: I shall wait until it comes before knocking down part of my house next. the House. I shall take it to those people myself. Dr DADOUR: That will not be long. It is The Minister introduced some amendments to the apparent that something is going to be done. It Health Act. I asked him a specific question at appears to me that the Minister for Health is all that time, which was, "Have the doctors been set to go, so let me put him in his place. I have consulted concerning these amendments?" The five minutes left to me. Minister said, "Yes, I believe so." That was the most inaccurate statement I have ever heard. An Opposition member: Hear, hear! Mr Ridge: Why was it inaccurate? I believed it Dr DADOUR: The fault lies with the Tonkin to be so. Government and then at the feet of the present Government. Very little has been done and I do Dr DADOUR: The Minister Can go to town not know why, although perhaps the Government shortly; but have no fear, it will be a running considers it is better not to rock the boat. battle. I took 20 Bills, plus 20 second reading speeches to the AMA to be distributed amongst I have had many people come to me saying, the doctors for peer control. We hear a great deal "Do not tell me this money being spent on the about peer control. It was reported to me that the hospital system is still going on." Many people doctors did not know about a number of the complain to me about the lavishness of proposed amendments. They had not been Government spending. consulted. As a result, I was presented with three Mr Bertram: Parliamentary colleagues? amendments. Dr DADOUR: I was prepared to leave the Mr Davies: The General Practitioners Society present Minister alone because, as everyone was asked, I think. knows, he had a lot of pressure on him last year. Dr DADOUR: I do not care about them. They However, it is obvious the Minister does not are not my kettle of fish. intend to leave me alone. He intends to have a go. In the last session of Parliament members will Mr Davies: 1 think they are gaining power. recall that two Bills were introduced. One related Dr DADOUR: I do not know about that. to welfare and the other contained four Because of the situation I have just mentioned, amendments to the Health Act. Neither of these my job was not made any easier when I was in the Bills was proceeded with. party room, and the Bill was put aside until this Mr Ridge: Because the session of Parliament session when some common ground "could be expired before the Bills got to the stage of being found to enable it to be reintroduced. I do not discussed at the second reading stage. know the situation in regard to that at the present time. Dr DADOUR: I am sure the Leader of the Opposition, in his capacity as shadow Minister for Mr Ridge: What is your kettle of fish, if I may Health, did answer at the second reading stage of ask? You told us "it" was not your kettle of fish. one of those Bills; therefore, I must correct the Is the AMA your kettle of fish? Minister for Health and Community Welfare. Dr DADOUR: That is correct. Mr Ridge: I do not believe he did. Mr Ridge: Well, it has been discussed with Dr DADOUR: The Leader Of the Opposition them. did do so. Dr DADOUR: I believe I am performing my Mr Davies: On the hospital one; but not on the job as best I know how. I do not go near the community welfare Bill. Minister, nor do I go near- Dr DADOUR: The Bill relating to community Mr Ridge: And I think it is a great pity that welfare did not get to the second reading stage you do not. because there were too many problems. Dr DADOUR: The Minister has never invited Mr Ridge: Stay around for a few days. me, so I am not going to go running after him. Dr DADOUR:. I will oppose it if I have to Mr Ridge: Why do I have to extend an invitation? If you have a problem, you have a oppose it. right to approach me. Mr Ridge: It is in precisely the same form. Dr DADOUR: The present Minister for Health Dr DADOUR: If the nuns and all the voluntary and Community Welfare will be just as inept as people are happy with the Bill, I will agree with his predecessors. This is what I am afraid of. 1 it. believe that nothing will be done int this area, Mr Ridge: They are happy with it. because 1 do not think the Government knows 452 452[ASSEMBLY] what to do. We are bleeding the State of its planning of the industry and it must make a money. We are spending money on luxurious commitment with respect to guiding the industry. hospitals-hospitals on which money should not Unless we do that, our mining industry like so be spent. many of our other industries will simply be Mr Skidmore: It would be better spent on steamrollered by the centralised and highly building homes for Aborigines. planned economies of other countries. I speak Dr DADOIJR: I do not want to talk about that here of the State-owned mining industry of subject. I should like to see the money put into Brazil; I speak here of the centrally planned and housing where it is needed. co-ordinated industries of the communist bloc countries; and I speak also of the centrally Opposition members: Hear, hear! planned and co-ordinated industries of Japan. Dr DADOUR: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Unless we adopt an approach along the lines I have mentioned, we will soon be easy prey for MR GRILL (Vilgarn-Dundas) [6.04 p.m.]: these particularly centrally controlled and highly Last week the Premier returned from Japan after developed industries. For those reasons, I applaud having conducted negotiations on behalf of the the new turn that seems to have been taken by the Western Australian iron ore producers with Government and, as I said before, I do not wish to Japanese steel mill owners. I do not want to dwell on the success or otherwise of the mission. comment on the success or otherwise of that particular trip. I shall leave that to other people I do feel further that such missions to other who are in a better position to comment. countries should not be undertaken in an atmosphere of panic or at the last moment. They I sincerely applaud the action taken by the should be part and parcel of an ongoing process Premier. I applaud the steps he took when he which should start at the beginning of the mining went to Japan, not only because he spoke to the operation and not when the mining operation is Japanese about iron ore, but also, and more finished. importantly, because it seems to me to represent a We need long-term planning, rational new turn, and a refreshing turn, in the approach deployment of resources, and research and the Government is taking to the mining industry. planning in respect of production and marketing. I have always believed and my party has always In the past, to a large degree, such planning has long believed, that the mining industry of this been almost non-existent and, in some cases, has State, and in fact of the whole nation, requires not been completely absent. only Government involvement in planning, not I would like to deal with only Government co-ordination during the setting some of the examples up of the mining operations, but also Government of the lack of co-ordination and planning in the eastern goldfields. The short-sightedness of intervention at the time of negotiations. Governments has led to very severe economic Some years ago this action would have been situations over a period of years which have been refuted by many people on the opposite side of the very hard for the goldfields people to weather. House; but it is good to see the change in the Firstly, let us consider the nickel mining attitude of the men on the Government benches industry which, in my view, got off on a very bad and it is good to see that they are now involving footing. There was a scramble to get into themselves to some extent at least-not to the exploration; there were all sorts of entrepreneurs extent I should like, but at least to some rushing around flogging off land which was extent-in the planning and co-ordination of the obviously of no value; there were giant rip-offs on mining industry in this State. They have a very the stock market; there was a helter-skelter rush long way to go, but at least the unfettered, free to get into production and an almost total lack of market principle is being thrown out the door and rationalisation in the industry in the early stages; I think it is not before time. and later the companies were gambling on the The free market approach, with its unfettered spot market. nature, where every man was out for himself was What has all this led to? It has led to a wasteful and would have to be wasteful in terms situation where small operators have had to close of this country's scarce resources and in terms of following the downturn in prices. Almost the scarce manpower. We, on this side of the House, whole of the Windarra operation is closed and believe that the Government must become many people in Laverton have had to move out. involved in monitoring the mining industry. It Half the industry at Norseman is on the verge of must become concerned with rationalising the closure and 1 200 people in the nickel industry industry. It must be totally involved in the have lost their jobs. People have been uprooted. [Wednesday, 5th April, 1978]45 453

It seems to me that with some sort of planning industry and unless we have ongoing exploration, many of the present problems could have been we will not have any mines in the future. All avoided. We have a ridiculous situation. The members appreciate that exploration by Windarra operation is closing down. It has prospectors in Western Australia has been the involved a lot of money in exploration and basis of the industry. However, in this regard two development on the ore body itself. We have an vital factors are involved. Firstly, we must have open cut where the whole overburden has been prospectors; and, secondly, we must have land taken off and the ore body has been laid open for upon which they can prospect. mining. The mining operation from now on should In this State the situation has developed where be relatively cheap. In other words, we have a we do not have as many prospectors as we should nickel mine fully developed and the costs of have and,' more importantly, we do not have development have been amortised to a large enough land available to them. The day before I extent. The plant there is not being used and the came to Parliament this week, an old prospector whole mining town is closing down so that all the visited me at my office. He had been prospecting infrastructure, including most of the houses, will successfully some years ago and was a good be of no use. Men must leave the area and prospector. He had made a lot of money and had businesses are closing down. moved to Perth where he had gone into business. The ridiculous aspect is that only 100 or so However, because he became sick of the business kilometres away we have another mine going into he got out of it and decided to return to production. It seems so silly and such a waste. prospecting. The Agnew operation is going into production. First of all he went to the Murchison and What a waste of manpower, infrastructure, and around Meekatharra, but he could not find any money have been involved! A geat deal of it could ground not already pegged. He told me that most have been avoided by some sort of rational of the ground he was investigating was pegged, planning within the industry. A great deal could but was not being worked. have been avoided also had companies been He then moved to Mt. Magnet and found prevented from gambling, and instead of short- tremendous tracts of land there tied up by one term contracts, long-term contracts should have company. It was impossible to obtain any kind of been arranged. exploration permit regarding that land, because I realise that a few years ago the spot market the processes within the Mines Department were was attractive. The prices were high; but surely such that the land could not be dealt with. the situation called for a stable basis for the industry, and long-term contracts should have Sitting sus pended from 6.15 to 7.30 p.m. been arranged. Mr GRILL: Prior to the tea suspension I was talking about a prospector who returned to the Mr Coyne: Does not the member realise that goldfields in an endeavour to find land on which two mining giants are competing with each other? he could prospect. He First went to Meekatharra Mr GRILL: The honourable member is right. and found none. He then moved further down the That is part of it; but a great deal of the problem Murchison and went to Mt. Magnet, where he could have been ameliorated in this area had found the land had been pegged and to a large long-term contracts been written. As members are extent taken up by one mining company under aware, Agnew is a prime example of this. It has what appears to be a TR, so bureaucratic red tape long-term contracts. But now it is being involved prevents his prospecting on that land. He moved in costs which the mining company, not so far from there to Payne's Find, without any luck. away, and in the electorate of the honourable He went back to Perth and decided to try the member, has already incurred. Yet that mine is eastern goldfields where, being the scene of his closing down. That is not rational and indicates a past successes, he thought he would probably do lack of planning in the early days. well. He went to Coolgardie and found no land he Mr Laurance: Perhaps long-term contracts could take up that was not already pegged. were not available then. It is easy to have Everywhere he went he found land which was hindsight. pegged but which was not being used and upon Mr GRILL: It is, and I certainly take the point. which the normal working conditions were not However, had the Government been monitoring being applied. the situation it would have realised the position. He then moved to Kalgoorlie and found all the I would like to dwell on another aspect of the Golden Mile was pegged, notwithstanding the fact industry: that is, prospectiig. As members that only a very small portion of it was being appreciate, prospecting is the basis of any mining worked. He consulted the maps in the Mines 454 454[ASSEMBELY]

Department and found the land was taken up. take leases of this nature away from a company Nevertheless, he prospected around and found which had held them for 50 years. what he thought was an interesting proposition at What it amounts to is that a large amount of the apex of a corner where three land tenures land in the goldfields has been tied up by under the Mining Act coincided. One was owned companies and prospectors, large and small, who by one of the large mining companies in are not working their land and who are sitting on Kalgoorlie and the other two were owned by it by reason of a gentlemen's agreement that one prospectors. does not go around jumping other people's claims. He found the large mining company-and one I submit that practice is not in the best interests would not need to be a magician to guess which of Western Australia. If prospectors are not able company it was-had had the land tied up for 18 to move onto the land and prospect it, we will not years and had not done any work on it for the have any growth to speak of in the mining whole of that period. He found one of the industry. In the past, it has mainly been prospectors had had his land tied up for nearly 17 prospectors who have found the major ore bodies. months without any work whatsoever being done I say those people who want to work the land on it, and the third piece of land was tied up by should be given the opportunity to do so, and it is another prospector who had not done any work on obvious the Government must take a hand in the it for three years. matter. In my view, the Mining Act should be It might be asked why he did not take the amended to provide that those companies, matter up under the forfeiture conditions in the prospectors, and leaseholders who do not work Mining Act, but we must take into account that their claims within a reasonable period there is a natural reluctance on the part of automatically forfeit them unless they apply for prospectors and people in the eastern goldfields to an exemption. Otherwise, I can see a situation be seen as persons who jump claims; and that is where the land will be eternally tied up by people what they are called if they apply for forfeiture of who do not have any interest in working it but someone elses claim. They do not like doing it who have some general vague idea that a big and they resist it. It leads to ill-feeling in the mining company might come into the area and industry. On the other hand, the wardens who sit find a bonanza, and they will be able to flog the in the area do not like ordering forfeiture of claims off to the company. I say again, let the mineral claims under the forfeiture conditions, people who want to work the land have a fair go. and they do so only with great reluctance. I would like to turn to the goldmining industry, Generally speaking, they do not do it at all. and it might be fair for me to outline generally Only a few years ago it was my lot to take a the situation in the eastern goldfields at the forfeiture application against the leases which present time. belonged to a grand old company on the Golden I would like to make a few comments about the Mile; namely the Great Boulder leases. The Great basic types of ore found in the gold fields. There Boulder company had closed down its mines are two types of ore, and those who know about 1969-70. It had made numerous something about goldmining might forgive me for announcements in the Press to the effect that it being a bit pedantic. There is refractory ore which saw no future in going on with gold production, needs roasting, and free milling ore which does but it kept uts leases and remained there. not need roasting and is merely pulverised and put Some years later a miner came to me and asked across a strake or cyanided. me to make out an application for forfeiture. I Most of the ores of the Golden Mile are asked'him, "Have you complied with the Act'?" refractory-type ores which need to be roasted. For He said, -Yes, I have." I asked, "Has the mining treating the ore in the goldfields at the present company complied with the Act?" He said, "No, time we have the State Battery. The advantage of it has not." It was a matter of record that the the State Battery is that it is cheap; however, it company had not complied with the Act for has several disadvantages. Firstly, it treats only something like two or three years. small tonnages; secondly, it is not particularly The application went before the warden, who efficient; and, thirdly, it does not treat any had to concede to a large extent the merit of the refractory-type ores. Also in the goldfields we claim, but he rejected it on the flimsiest of have some private plants. The North Kalgurli technical grounds; not because the application treatment plant was converted to a nickel should not have been granted in accordance with treatment plant some years ago and it is still a the conditions of the Mining Act but merely treatment plant for nickel from Redross and because of the precendent it would have set to Selcast. There is the Oroya plant belonging to [Wednesday, 5th April, 19781 4555

K~algoorlie Mining Associates and that treats free- production. It would mean that those companies milling ores of the type, as members know, not which have refractory-type ore could also get into predominating on the Golden Mile. production. It would provide an efficient The other plant which did treat refractory treatment plant for any other ores in the area. it ore-in other words, the bulk of the ore from the may well allow some big mines to get off the Golden Mile-was the Chaffers plant. That was ground. All those things could lead to a real sold off some years ago when Lake View and Star opening up of the Golden Mile, and the areas was in amalgamation with Goldmines of surrounding it. Kalgoorlie. The name of this company was There is support for such a mill in Kalgoorlie. changed on several occasions. However, that Most of the prospectors support it, most of the Chaffers plant was sold off a few years ago when small mineowners support it, and the public the Fimiston operation closed down and it leaves generally are very much in favour of it. It is not a the goldfields in the situation that it has no plant new idea on the gold fields; it has been bandied to mill the great bulk of the ores coming from the around for some time. Golden Mile; absolutely no plant whatsoever. From time to time the Mines Department has Apart from the ore from the Golden Mile, considered the proposition, but it has never gone within the radius of Kalgoorlie there are a ahead with it. If we accept the proposition that number of other small and medium-sized such a mill should be built, we have to think goldmining operations which mine refractory ore. about who may build it. It seems to me that it These operations also are unable to treat their ore would not be the prospectors who would build it because there is no plant. because they would not have the money to do so; Mr Coyne: There are no roasters, in other it would not be the big companies that would words. build it because they would build their own Mr GRILL: There are no roasters, and there is plants; and it would not be the speculators no plant set up in that configuration. That in itself because they never build anything-they would is a problem; the fact that there is no plant to rather speculate on the rise and fall of overseas treat refractory ore. currencies than put their money into goldmining. So the situation arises that there is only one The second problem is that really there is no logical body that could put up such a plant, and efficient plant for treating ore in the eastern that is the Government. goldfields apart from the Oroya plant which treats the free-milling ore from the Mt. Charlotte The idea has been around for some time and, as mine. This plant is utilised completely so anyone I mentioned, the Mines Department has looked at else who has a large ore body or has an ore body it. The Government's reaction to the challenge which has refractory-type ore in it cannot have it has been rather tardy; it has been unenthusiastic treated on the goldfields, and that is a tremendous and lethargic, but not altogether antagonistic. impost to bear. It means simply that the bulk of Finally, after some months and years of the ores from the eastern goldfields cannot prompting, the Government, through the regional presently be treated. administrator, requested that the Eastern Gold fields- Espera nce Regional Development On past occasions I have been critical of the Committee look at the feasibility of setting up Government for allowing the Chaffers plant to be such a plant. That was some months ago and sold off, and I will not go through that again. nothing has happened since then. However, certain solutions must be looked at in respect of goldmining. The first solution would be It seems to me that the whole approach taken to reconstitute the Chaffers plant, and that is by the Government was wrong. The approach was fairly impossible at the present time as most of it far too amateurish; it was not a professional has been sold off. The second possibility is to approach. The matter was placed in the hands of build a custom mill. Such a mill would treat ore the regional administrator. Admittedly this from various producers. It would not treat ore gentleman has some engineering ability, but he exclusively from one producer but rather it would has no mining background whatever and I do not treat ore from various producers and charge a fee know what funds he was given to go ahead with for doing so. It would pay out on the basis of the the feasibility study. In any event nothing has analysis and sampling of the ore as it went eventuated from it. through the treatment plant. This idea has It seems to me, and I think it would seem to obvious attractions and some obvious most logical people, that a study of this sort which disadvantages. It would mean that the small and has such important ramifications to the people of medium producers in the area could get into the eastern gold fields should have been 456 456[ASSEM BLY] approached in a professional way. The resources looking at this project and has indicated to us that of the Mines Department and of the Department it is looking at an operation of 10000 tonnes a of Industrial Development should have been month, using the Associated Leases and the thrown into the study and it should have been Perseverance shaft. The company would be able carried out thoroughly and properly. I have. said to get into such production without the gigantic beore that I believe the Government's whole cost necessary to open the whole of the Golden approach was wrong and I begin to doubt whether Mile, and it intends to use some of the old the Government can act decisively on a question roasters that have remained at that plant for some or this nature. time. I would now like to turn to the present situation The- company has given the member for in respect of the goldmining industry in -Kalgoorlie and myself an undertaking that it will Kalgoorlie which I mentioned earlier. There is make a definite decision in respect of reopening only one major mine operating at present; that is, this section of the Golden Mile by the 30th June. the Mt. Charlotte mine. According to its owners, I personally believe the company is keen and that mine was saved by the Fraser Government's enthusiastic to get on with the job, and I wish it devaluation of I 7'A per cent some time ago. Since well. that time the mine has gone ahead and $2.8 The only other major mining company in the million has been spent doing up the old plant and area is North Kalgurli which operates on leases installing new plant. The mine has 10 years of on the edge of the Golden Mile. It has no reserves, and its present prospects are good. treatment plant and has been out of production Currently it is running at a good profit, and with for some time. The shaft and plant of the the recent upsurge in the price of gold it will run company are in good order but, as already at a much greater profit than it was doing earlier mentioned, there is no treatment plant. The in the year. company is presently undertaking a feasibility The other and more interesting aspect of the study in respect of its operation. It put forward a situation in Kalgoorlie is that on the Fimiston plan to the Government only a few weeks ago leases-namely, the Golden Mile situation-no whereby it will reconvert its nickel treatment mines are operating in spite of the fact that there plant into a gold treatment plant. Basically that are good reserves there. According to the owners proposition was put forward to the Government to of the leases there are reserves of seven years. the enable the company to keep 105 workers in grade is reasonable, and they have hopes of employment. getting back into production. However, as I I think the prospect has merit, and the mentioned before, they cannot get back into Government should be urged to accede to the production because there is no way to treat the request of the company. That does not mean ore. Presently the feasibility of reopening the necessarily that North Kalgurli will go into Golden Mile is being considered and Kalgoorlie production, because the feasibility study in Mining Associates put forward two prospects to respect of the operation still has not been be looked at. The first is to reopen the whole of completed, and the conversion of the plant to a the Golden Mile; a very ambitious project gold cyanide extraction plant to treat refractory requiring $30 to $35 million-worth of capital ore could still present problems. Certainly we expenditure, comprising $7.5 million for a new support the notion that the company reconvert the electricity power plant, $7.5 million for new nickel treatment plant to a gold treatment plant, development underground, and $15 million or so and I suggest the Government should provide for new general plant, plus another few million some assistance for that to be done. totalling about $35 million. dollars ovcr that, The situation in the goldfields, as I mentioned It is a very ambitious project. The company on another occasion, is serious, and I cannot stress hopes to treat 56 000 tonnes of ore in a four-week too greatly to members how serious it is. Towns period, and in my view the project is somewhat are closing down, men are leaving the area, grandiose at this stage. businesses are folding up, I 200 jobs have been Mr Coyne: It will cost SI1I million to reopen the lost, and all the great mines of the Golden Mile Hill 50 mine. are now closed. Mr GRILL: The other possibility they are In my view the situation calls for urgent 'and looking at is something much more practical to dramatic action, and it seems to me that such my mind, and is something we have urged the action has been almost entirely lacking. The company to look at for some time; that is, tb Government perhaps has not been entirely reopen on a limited scale. The company is now derelict in its duties, because on Tuesday, the [Wednesday, 5th April, 19781 4575

28th March, the Premier made the following answer would be "What about the shareholders?" statement- They haven't been paid a dividend for years. The State Government is maintaining close Mr GRILL: I do not know about that. contact with two Kalgoorlie goidmining However, the company also has overseas partners. companies which are studying the possibility as the honourable member would be aware. It of resuming production from their leases at seems to me the Government really has not done Fimiston. what it should have done in this area. The Premier, Sir Charles Court, said In my view the Government should have done yesterday that he was pleased that the two things. Firstly, it should have been up there companies had been carrying out the studies with the companies examining the situation. It is since the gold price started to rise just not good enough to sit on the sidelines and dramatically last year. leave everything to the company. Secondly, the But he said that it would be some iti.me Government should have been offering some sort before KMA and North Kalgurli would be in of incentives for the goldmining companies to get a position to decide the economic back into operation. The Government was the of mining at Fimiston. prepared to take such action in respect of practicability Redross nickel mine when it was about to close Although the price of gold had increased down, On that occasion the Government said it considerably in the past six months, there was prepared to forgo royalties 'to the extent of was no long-term guarantee that the current something like $330 000. I think there is an prices could be maintained. urgent case for concessions of that nature to be Both companies needed to exercise careful given to the goldmining industry; however, so far judgment to ensure that a heavy investment the industry has not been offered any such of capital would not lead to financial concession. difficulties if the gold price slumped again. In my view the Government should be up in the Sir Charles said that if the companies area and actively looking at ways and means of submitted realistic proposals, the reactivating these mines. As I said before, it is not Government would give urgent consideration good enough for the Government to be passively to measures it could take to assist. sitting on the sidelines saying it is keeping in He said that he had also been approached contact with the goidmining companies. That is by the WA Trades and Labor Council to j.ust not good enough, and it is really quite sad. convene a meeting of all groups involved in At this stage the Federal Government has not goldmining, so that all points or view could been informed of the situation in respect of the be considered. feasibility studies being carried out; and I can say that without qualification because the companies This might be more appropriate when the themselves have told me. It would seem to me mining companies had evaluated their that if the State Government is aware of these position and there was some positive plan to feasibility studies, as it says it is, it should at least consider. have made the Federal Government aware of the Such a meeting would be convened if the situation so that ir the latter Government could circumstances warranted it. provide any help it could be provided promptly. Perhaps the Government has not been derelict in However, that has not been done. its duties, but certainly it has not been jumping In all or these spheres it is my view that out of its skin to assist. I believe the urgent although the Government has taken some hesitant situation we have on the goldfields at the present steps along the lines of actually getting involved in time warrants some dynamic action by the the goldmining industry, it has a long way to go. Government. The Minister for National Resources (Mr Mr Coyne: Is there any way that the profits Anthony) said on the 15th January, 1977- from the Mt. Charlotte operation could be Australia's mining industries were poised channelled into other ore bodies that are known to for a great new surge of development... exist and would be profitable? Then he gave some nebulous reasons why that Mr GRILL: I presume Kalgoorlie Mining should be the case. He then pulled out that old Associates would probably use part of its profits chestnut about the Whitlam Government having from the operation at Mt. Charlotte to keep the stifled industry for three years and said now that Fimiston operation going. he was at the helm everything would be all right. Mr T. D. Evans: The member should know the Of course, we have seen what happened. Not only 458 458[ASSEMBLY] have we seen what happened, but we have seen Mr Pearce: If the Government had acted 12 that this man was not in touch with the industry. months ago we would not be in the position we The top man in the country had no notion at all of are in now. what was going on in the mining industry and in Mr WILLIAMS: Absolute rubbish! This year the overseas markets. It seems to me that it has been necessary to supplement our water situation is absolutely ludicrous. How could any supply with the use of underground water proper planning be carried out when we have supplies; in fact, 45 per cent of all water used is some fool like this saying the mining industry is now underground water. While there has been poised for a surge when in fact it is poised to go some controversy about the use of underground down the shaft? It is pathetic. water, I believe that in certain circumstances, It is obvious he feels that, having taken the such as we are experiencing at the moment, it is helm, all he has to do is sit back and allow the justified. This should be permitted; such water invisible band to right everything. With that sort should be used to supplement our normal water of philosophy, the industry has no absolute hope supplies from the storage dams throughout the at all. various parts of our State to meet the requirements of metropolitan and country areas. MRt WILLIAMS (Clontarf) [8.00 p.m.]: I rise to support the motion for the adoption of the However, I believe the underground water Address-in-Reply, so ably moved by my usage should be monitored carefully and regularly colleague, the member for Murdoch. and I request the Metropolitan Water Board to take very positive steps to ensure that this in I feel it would be inappropriate, bearing supervision is faithfully and accurately carried mind the difficult year we have experienced, if out. some mention were not made of water and the water supplies within our State. Members will Mr Pearce: Does that include private bores? realise we have now suffered the three driest Mr WILLIAMS: No, it does not. Two other seasons ever recorded. This has necessitated much vital points which must claim priority are, firstly, lightening of the belt to achieve a significant to make sure the environment is not adversely reduction in water consumption figures for the affected and, secondly, to ensure that the level of current year. Under the water saving policy it has salinity does not creep up to any great extent. But been necessary for the first time since 1959-60 to above all, I feel that what has been achieved this disallow the use of mechanical sprinklers. year has been gratifying and certainly is a fine Bearing in mind there are some 252 000 example to the Government that, with the proper services and a fairly substantial increase annually, education, the attitude of the public can be it is pleasing to see that the targets set by the maintained. board in an effort to reduce our consumption Mr Bryce: Is this speech going to be distributed considerably has been achieved. It is also pleasing to the electorate? to note that when pressure for conserving water Mr WILLIAMS: It could well be. When the was at its peak and the co-operation of the public consumer is kept well informed and is perfectly was sought, the consumption of water was aware of the seriousness of the situation, the reduced by 40 per cent. This reduction could not Government's task is made that much easier when have been achieved without the generous co- implementing a programme to assist in the operation of the public in making a conscious conservation of water. effort to conserve water in response to the Further, I wish to make brief mention of the Metropolitan Water Board's appeal for the care recently issued Binnie Report. I sincerely hope and use of water. I believe merit and, certainly, some sections of this report become operative. commendation should be forthcoming to the public and the media for the wonderful co- One of its recommendations is to implement a operation they have given. pay-as-you-use system. While this may be desirable in many ways, there are a number of The average water consumption in Perth is 650 aspects connected with this type of system that kilolitres per unit per annum. This is one of the can cause tremendous problems for the average highest figures in the world today. It must be householder. realised that if this State is to develop, it is essential for the public to be made aware that Mr Jamieson: You can say that again three they are using too much water. Therefore, in times'. order to achieve this aim, its use must be Mr O'Connor: You are not wrong. restricted and, certainly, wastage must be reduced Mr WILLIAMS: For example, if a total pay- to an absolute minimum from now on. as-you-use system came into operation it would (Wednesday, 5th April, 1978145 459 mean a substantial increase to the average with the common object in view of improving the householder in the amount he would pay annually traffic flow, reducing the accident rate and for his water. Conversely, it would mean a making it more efficient to travel by road. reduction in cost to the major shopping centres In spite-of the excellent design and engineering and also the city block. of most road systems problems still exist in the Therefore, because of the obvious implications maximum utilisation of these capital investments in such a system we must move carefully. It must to achieve the objective I have just outlined. I be realised that to turn on the tap and provide believe there are, two major inhibitors to traffic water for a household involves the Metropolitan flow, the first being certain methods of entry and Water Board in considerable costs. From exit from major roads and the second, problems information received from the board, the cost of with driver behaviour. Traffic flow on major providing these head works to the 252 000 highways, particularly at peak hours, is slowed householders in the metropolitan area is greatly by having too many minor roads providing approximately $9.2 million per annum. Therefore, exit and entry. I believe it is necessary for everyone to contribute Cars annually towards the cost of providing the head making frequent left turns onto and off works for the privilege of enjoying being able to the highway considerably slow the movement of turn on a tap and have water supplied to the traffic in the left hand lane. Cars making right home. turns onto and particularly off the highway in heavy traffic cause considerable congestion. A car Perhaps water could then be charged on a pay- turning right from the right hand lane of a dual as-you-use system on the basis of the following carriageway might have to wait a considerable rates, depending on the usage: For example, it period for a suitable break in the two lanes of could be suggested the rate should commence at oncoming traffic to complete his exit. During this Sc per 1 000 kilolitres for the first 50 000 wait he may hold up 20 or 30 cars behind him in kilolitres, l~c per 1 000 kilolitres for the next the right hand lane. This method of exit can 50 000 kilolitres, 12c per 1 000 kilolitres for usage greatly slow the movement of traffic in the right between 100 000 and 150 000 kilolitres, and 14c hand lane, supposedly the fast lane on a major per 1 000 kilolitres up to 200 000 kilolitres. Once highway during peak hours. If anyone doubts this an individual uses over 300 000 kilolitres per statement he should drive in peak hour traffic annum, the water should be paid for at l~c or along Great Eastern Highway from the Causeway more per 1 000 kilolitres. However, the eventual to Belgravia Street, or from Canning Bridge to recommendation of the Metropolitan Water the Causeway. Board will be a difficult one. To overcome this problem I have the following I believe, however, that we should move into a suggestions: Firstly, right hand entry and exit on part pay-as-you-use system in an endeavour to major highways should be restricted essentially to encourage consumers to conserve water. In the traffic-light-con trolled intersections with the past, water has been freely used in Western provision of a separate right turning lane. In order Australia. One sure way of assisting to conserve it to accomplish this it is also necessary to contruct for the time when it is required-such as the a median strip to separate the opposing traffic present-is to charge people on a higher rate per flows. kilolitre when they are using tremendous amounts of excess water. Secondly, at least 50 per cent of the minor Mr Bryce: The member for Clontarf advocates roads joining a highway should be converted to high rates for water. culs-de-sac. This leaves some minor roads to provide adequate left hand entry and exit from Mr WILLIAMS: The Deputy Leader of the the highway which should be sufficient to service Opposition should listen to what I said. local residents and to keep interruptions to the Mr Pearce: Green lawns for Nedlands and dead traffic flow to a minimum. lawns for the rest of us. Mr Pearce: Every right hand turn is a left hand Mr O'Connor: No, he said, "Pay-as-you-use". turn if you are coming the other way. You cannot Mr Pearce: Pay as you do not use! differentiate. Mr WILLIAMS: I now change to another Mr WILLIAMS: subject. For years, Governments, through the One of the most frustrating Main Roads Department, have spent millions of problems on the road today- dollars on improving road systems, creating Mr Sodeman: You eliminate all of them if you highways, freeways, and secondary arterial roads keep going straight! 460 460[ASSEM BLY]

Mr Pearce: That means all his constituents the extent of marking lanes with different speed coming home from work will end up in my limits, as has successfully been in operation in electorate. Europe and America. Leach Highway at the Mr WILLIAMS: One of the most frustrating moment is not being utilised to its capacity. problems on the road today, apart from the In making these various points it has been my member for Cosnells, is the driver whose intention to illustrate that I am not in favour of conscience allows him when travelling, for slowing down traffic on highways and freeways in example, at 50 kilometres an hour in an 80- the metropolitan area; quite the contrary. By kilometres-an-hour zone on both highways and improving the flow of traffic there will be fewer freeways, to travel in the right hand lane, thus frustrations and fewer accidents. Free flowing hampering the free flow of traffic. This type of traffic on highways is rarely involved in accidents. driver impedes the traffic flow to such a degree It is only when traffic is congested that drivers that drivers in the vehicles following become become frustrated and accidents occur. frustrated, irritable, and, frankly, annoyed; and My third point is Midland's importance as a they take unnecessary risks to pass him. major centre in the metropolitan region as Therefore, it is essential that drivers who are not exemplified by its two main functions as a service prepared to travel at the speed limit must be centre for the rural hinterland and as a town educated to keep to the left hand lane and allow centre servicing a large sector of the metropolitan the right hand lane to be utilised for the purpose region. Central Midland is taken up by an area of for which it was devised; that is, to improve the 119 hectares bounded by Morrison Road to the traffic flow. west and north, the railway to the south, and How often do we find, when approaching Lloyd Street to the east. It has been stated in the stationary vehicles at traffic lights, that both Midland regional centre study and Perth's eastern lanes are occupied by slow moving and heavy corridor report that Midland is to become the vehicles such as trucks and buses? largest subregional centre in the Perth Mr Barnett: Quite often. metropolitan region within a decade. Mr WILLIAMS: The member is right; too From a practical point of view this fact was a often. Because of their weight load these vehicles foregone conclusion long before the planning accelerate slowly thereby restricting the consultants undertook any study because of movement of all the following vehicles even to the Midland's physical and geographical location and extent of some vehicles being unable to clear the the evident multiplying pressure for way before a further light change. It is essential redevelopment, rezonings, developments, and that heavy vehicles occupy-only the left hand lane. subdivisions. It is of fundamental importance that Another important factor which adds to a programme be commenced immediately to congestion is the presence of tractors, low loaders, upgrade Midland's existing roads if it is to and cranes on the road early in the morning and progress towards becoming the city's largest late in the evening. They should be barred from subregional centre. the highways between seven o'clock and half past Apart from upgrading the Midland railway eight in the morning and between four o'clock and terminal, Midland has been a neglected centre for half past five in the afternoon to help increase the the past three decades. The railway terminal was traffic flow. a pilot scheme undertaken by the Government Further, how often do we see, when the lights and it has proved successful in assisting in the change to green, that the driver in the lead vehicle identification of Midland as a centre of then decides to change gear and moves off) significance. With such an efficient transportation Another example is the driver who is absorbed in link people have found it easier to relate to looking anywhere but at the lights. This again Midland. impedes the traffic flow and action should be Mr Pearce interjected. taken accordingly. Another glaring example of how our road Mr WILLIAMS: I am trying to assist the systems could be improved is Leach Highway member for Swan, if the member for Gosnells will which has three lanes in each direction and a only realise it. This has also assisted in maximum permitted speed of 10 kilometres an decentralisation from Perth and will ultimately hour. This is an excellent highway but it has too promote larger-scale developments in the Midland many secondary road intersections. To turn some area. If Midland is to be secured as a subregional of them into culs-de-sac would obviously improve centre and perform all the necessary functions of the flow, and with three lanes in each direction such a centre it must not be neglected. Within the surely the speed limit could be increased even to commercial centre of Midland many major [Wednesday, 5th April, 1978)46 461 projects have been continually deferred. Any extension of Alexander Drive to at least Great further delays in rectifying the road system will Northern Highway, and the extension of Morley inadvertently result in the abandonment of these Drive to Morrison Road will not only provide a projects. The growth of Midland as a centre of more direct link to the Midland centre, but will significance will depend almost entirely on the also assist in the expansion and rapid development results of Government stimulating development of the proposed Malaga industrial area. This area and redevelopment by encouraging public and occupies approximately 500 hectares. private interests in a positive and co-ordinated Mr Barnett: How much would all this cost? manner. Mr WILLIAMS: The area is approximately The neglect of Midland has created six critical the size of Kewdale and the proposed existing points which not only affect businesses there but residential areas of Lockridge, Beechboro, and also those residents in the eastern sector of the Malaga. metropolitan region who depend on the services that Midland provides. These problems include The Metropolitan Region Planning Authority acute parking and pedestrian and vehicle has stated that subregional centres should be complexes. Through traffic affects business unrestricted in terms of growth and gross leasable functions and other necessary services and present floor space in at least the foreseeable future. traffic conditions cause a loss of custom to more easily accessible areas such as retail shopping Point of Order facilities which include large discount Mr BRYCE: On a point of order, I can well departments. imagine that the member for Clontarf might want Expansion of the eastern corridor is inevitable, to produce a speech for distribution in his and if action is not taken immediately to solve the electorate, but members in this House are fully traffic access and circulation problems, Midland aware that only Ministers of the Crown are will be strangled by this perpetuation. permitted to read their speeches to the The stimulation and co-ordination of the Parliament. There have been numerous occasions Midland centre can be achieved only by previously where members have been brought to implementing the following roading options order for this reason. immediately: Traffic lights should be installed at The SPEAKER: I take it that the honourable the intersection of Morrison Road and Great member suggests that the member for Clontarf is Eastern Highway, after Tom's Tyres has been reading his speech? resumed in part or whole for this purpose. This is Mr Bryce: Most certainly. terribly important. Traffic lights should be The SPEAKER: I would imagine that the installed at the intersection of Morrison Road and member for Clontarf would be aware that he is Great Northern Highway. Lloyd Street should be not permitted to read a speech and I assume, if he extended to Morrison Road along the old railway is looking down, it is to collect his thoughts and reserve on land which is owned by the WAGR, perhaps refresh himself from what may be with traffic lights at the intersection of Lloyd copious notes. Street and Great Eastern Highway. This -will require the upgrading of Morrison Road and the Debate Resumed extension and upgrading of Lloyd Street. Nevertheless, this provides an immediate and Mr Pearce: Extremely copious! economical solution that will deviate most of the Mr Bryce: Perhaps I ought to remind the heavy truck traffic from the central core in an member that he speaks very well and does not expedient and efficient manner, and will create a need to read his speech. I am not being facetious. bypass-type system ininmising vehicle-pedestrian Mr WILLIAMS: Midland's potential growth conflict in making the Midland centre more has been stunted for many years and now that the attractive to developers and those people who are planners have completed their studies immediate serviced by the centre. action must be taken to implement the To date, there is no direct major east-west road suggestions I have made this evening. The link to Midland from the north-west of the encouragement of Midland to perform a wider metropolitan region, in particular the rapidly range of functions consistent with those of a expanding Beechboro and surrounds located no subregional centre, particularly the provision of further than 10 kilometres from the Midland department discount stores, specialty retail shops, centre. The construction of at least one business administration and the community and carriageway of the proposed northern perimeter its entertainment services, will require solutions to controlled-access highway from the proposed the physical problems that make Midland an 462 462[ASSEMBLY] inconvenient place in which to do business at the ultimately by 1976 it was no longer lawful for moment. people to push this drug nicotine through thesale Whilst at the same time Midland is of cigarettes by use of radio and television maintaining this growth, if it is to become the advertising. largest subregional Centre within the short time of We are being told by the State Government a decade, then the priorities I have stated this that we do not need legislation, but we should evening must be implemented forthwith. leave it to the advertisers and to the tobacco Mr Pearce: Have you made a submission to the companies to use their good judgment to abide by Minister for Transport? the desires of the public and the Parliament of Mr WILLIAMS: We must prove that we their own volition-of their own free will. I am believe in our planning strategy which necessitates utterly opposed to that proposition, because the subregional centres. After all, if Midland is to tobacco companies have shown themselves to be become the largest subregional Centre, it can no institutions which do not care two hoots about the longer be neglected for it is in the best interests of grave injury they are causing to the health of the metropolitan region as a whole that we get on people who smoke cigarettes. with the job immediately. The will of the people was expressed through the Federal Parliament in the manner which I MR BERTRAM (Mt. Hawthorn) [8.26 p.m.): have indicated. That then placed the ball fairly This being the Address-in-Reply debate one can and squarely in the court of the State Parliament speak on any subject of one's choice. It is my of Western Australia which has done nothing at intention to speak on several matters of all about the situation. It has gone through a few considerable public importance, but not exercises-the old exercises with which we are all necessarily in the order of importance. Firstly, I very familiar. The Government has gone off to a would question how and by what conscience the health committee and to Health Ministers' Government can find itself able to ask people to Conferences, and so on. All of us who know the subscribe to cancer appeals when it is in a position game are aware that is the best way of burying to do something very significant in respect of the the matter and dodging issues. amelioration of the scourge of cancer itself, yet refuses to do so. This Government should accept some of the blame for the fact that people are dying of cancer I shall quote from a publication produced by contracted as a result of smoking cigarettes. the Australian Cancer Society, subheaded, "For In 30 to 40 years' time the Government will be Health Professionals in the Field of Cancer". On page 445 it asks this question- blameworthy for the deaths of people as a result of cancer contracted from cigarette smoke. The How much longer are State Governments Government will have to accept the blame for the going to stand by and watch the people horrible deaths these people will suffer. expire? While the rest of the world tackles this problem are our politicians going to sit How Can one trust tobacco companies and on their hands? advertisers when, with the full knowledge of the wishes of the people as expressed through the It then goes on to say- Commonwealth Parliament which brought in laws Members of Parliament must not be to ensure that these companies would no longer be frightened of tackling smoking. All our pushing their drugs by means of the media-radio surveys have shown that the majority of the and television-they have been at pains to find people, including a majority of the smokers, ways and means of frustrating the will of the want action, and want it now. people during the years which have passed since I could correct that by saying the people want 1976? action; they have wanted it for years and they did It is another instance, of course, of the fact that get it. The Whitlam Government introduced if a company has sufficient money it can beat measures to see to it that no longer would it be nearly every law that this or any other Parliament possible for those people who push can produce. We had evidence of this last year cigarettes-that is to say, the so-called tobacco when somebody thought by a shrewd manoeuvre companies and their minions, the advertisrs-to he could, on a million dollar transaction, save a force them on people; in particular, onto those large sum or money, and he did that. But the who are more susceptible, who are of course the ordinary person down the street could not dodge younger people. around, skirt iround, and manipulate the law. Over a period of time this requirement of However, a millionaire could do that and did do banning advertising was phased in and I think that. As a result, the Parliament of this State had [Wednesday, 51h April, 1978143 463 to do something about revising the law to put a can reduce the tobacco consumption rate; not stop to that type of racket. by repressive, draconian measures, but As you know, Mr Speaker, and as all members simply by removing the enticements to know, these tobacco companies, at considerable smoke. expense, have found ways and means of utterly Further on the publication continues as follows- frustrating the will of the people as expressed by The lesson that can be learned from the Parliament of the Commonwealth. Having Norway is that 'smoking rates can be brought shown that form, we are now being told, as people down if a concerted effort is made at all and as members of Parliament, that these levels but most especially by Parliaments. companies are responsible and respectable and we So far no such attempt has been made by this should allow them to set up their own code of Parliament. On numerous occasions over the past ethics. I will not have a bar of that proposition. 10 years that I have been a member, I have Mr Pearce: Hear, hear! brought this matter to the attention of Mr BERTRAM: The Federal Government Parliament. It is not something of which members acted properly and it placed the onus on State have no notice. However, they have opted, with Governments of which this State Government is full knowledge of the situation, to do nothing certainty one, to ensure that appropriate about it. legislation was brought in, in order that the Members, particularly those on the other side Federal legislation did not appear to be absurd. of the House, tell people outside the House that What has this State Government done? It has they put people before dollars. The reason, in my done nothing. The tobacco companies at huge submission, that the Government is doing nothing expense from day to day produce types of about this particular question is that the tobacco advertisements which are nonsensical and companies are making quite sure that they are completely absurd. They are aimed at people, placing sizeable funds in the political coffers of younger people in particular, and they are the conservative parties in this country and in this designed to cause people to start smoking in order State. that once they have started they will not stop. In Sir Charles Court: You have no ground at all all probability, according to scientific evidence for making that allegation. which is available at the present time, these people will ultimately die of cancer or from some Mr BERTRAM: That is an expression of my other disease. However, I am concerned mainly opinion. with cancer. I should like to mention that Sir Charles Court: Well, it is completely wrong. according to the statistics contained in the Mr BERTRAM: I am prepared to bet on that publication which I mentioned previously-it is a and I am not a gambling man. fairly reputable and responsible publication and I Sir Charles Court: What are you asking us to have heard nobody suggest to the contrary-in do? 1950 the Australian cigarette consumption per Mr BERTRAM: I propose now to pass on to person, as I read the figures, was I1280 and in another question and that is in regard to the 1973, thanks to the pushers, it reached 3 080; parking of motor vehicles for secondary school almost three times the figur'e for 1950. students. The fact of the matter is people in I shall quote one or two paragraphs from this Western Australia over the age of 17 years who publication. I shall not quote all of it by any pass the tests required by law are permitted to means. It is headed, "Politicians and Lung drive motor vehicles. They are permitted to drive Cancer". It is directly aimed at us, just as the motor vehicles to football matches, shopping pushers aim their publicity at our children, mine centres, and to universities and schools. This is included. The article reads in part- happening. It is something which is not Lung Cancer is a medical problem which unexpected and it must be faced up to. The has political, economic, and social solutions. Government is aware of this particular problem. However, in Australia the politicians who It involves inconvenience to students but, of equal have the power to achieve a fall in the death importance, it involves inconvenience to the rate from this disease have chosen instead to public. It involves also a very real problem in dump the problem on the doctors who can at regard to the safety of students and of the public the present time save only five out of every generally. 100 lung cancer patients. Evidence is The Government is aware of the situation and beginning to appear in Norway and it is aware that it is a problem which is here for elsewhere that firm action by Government keeps, or at least until petrol runs out. However, 464 464ASSEFM BLY the Government has done nothing about the Sir Charles Court: Should these students not be situation. As I understand it, the Government has using public transport when it is provided at such neither attempted to formulate, nor put forward a concessional rate? Do you want us to spend any policy to improve the situation. money on huge parking facilities to encourage I realise there are other very pressing aspects of people to bring cars to high schools? education which have to be raced up to. I am aware also that some people would argue that a Mr BERTRAM: It will not be money of a huge number of these other matters, including the amount. We are not asking for a great deal of extraordinary number of unemployed school money to be spent at all. That is an old technique: teachers on the one hand and the high number of when everything else fails, throw in a red herring. students per teacher on the other hand, are urgent Sir Charles Court: I am waiting for that day matters. However, this is a problem which has too. been with us for some time. It will be with us indefinitely. This Government, which seeks to Mr BERTRAM: The point is that it is not encourage people to get excited about its exploits, suggested that vehicles should have gold-plated has done nothing about the situation. There is no parking areas. It is suggested that if a person policy in regard to it. lawfully takes a car along to a football match We do not know when parking facilities will be provision is made for a 17-year-old, a 70-year-old, provided for these secondary school students. We or anyone in between to park that vehicle. do not know who will take the initiative to provide I am led to believe that in nearly every case, or parking or who will decide where the parking in many cases-too many cases for one to be facilities should be situated. We do not know who satisfied-students lawfully driving their vehicles will pay for these facilities. However, the problem to school have no or inadequate parking facilities, has been here for a long time. There are literally causing inconvenience to themselves and to the hundreds, probably more correctly thousands, of public, and also creating a distinct possibility of secondary school students who are of the age danger. If a person parks a vehicle in substantially when they can lawfully, and I might add soft sand or, in certain weathers, in mud, or in a efficiently, drive motor vehicles. mixture of both conditions, the vehicle becomes Mr Bryce: Hear, hear! bogged anid all sorts of difficulties are experienced, particularly when there is congestion Mr BERTRAM: Within the law they may in that type of situation. drive motor vehicles wherever they like. However, secondary school students have either no facilities The problem must be tackled. It is no good the or inadequate facilities for parking when they Premier trying to hide behind the nonexistent arrive at their destination. Government policy on this matter. We are used to that; it does not impress us at all. It might be all In addition, when a high school is a specialised right when the Premier is talking to people school, students come from near and far and the outside, but not when he is here. He should use obvious, sensible thing for them to do is to travel his techniques in the appropriate forums. That is by car if they are in the fortunate position to be where he goes wrong. He can tell people outside able to do so. It is also fairly good logic-not that what he likes, and he does so and gets away with I hold myself to be an expert on motor it often; but here h& should use appropriate vehicls-to assume that this sort of travel, very arguments or better still, if he has none, he should often across country but not over long distances just keep quiet. per day, is probably a good way for a 17-year-old- driver to get his hand in. There are literally hundreds of students involved, as well as the public. The solution could This is a matter which needs some action by the be a partnership between the Government. It is no good the Government doing Govern ments-State and/or Federal-and local the same as it has done on the question of cancer, government. Others could also be a party to the and so on. In other words it is no good brushing solution. However, the fact of the matter is that it the problem aside, ignoring it, or submitting it to is a problem which must be tackled and not a committee. ignored or pushed under the carpet. Sir Charles Court: Are you advocating more If Cabinet can spend hours deciding whether it high school students should travel to school by will compel people to use number plates with the motorcar? I would be amazed if your party words, "State of Excitement" on them, it could do supported you. a lot better addressing its attention to something Mr BERTRAM: I do not think the Premier worthwhile and constructive rather than knows what makes our party tick at all. propaganda or its equivalent in nonsense. [Wednesday, 5th April, 19781 4656

I have received letters from constituents who state of affairs. I did not put those words in the take an extremely dim view of being forced to buy writer's mouth. My belief is the same, but she the yellow number plates upon which are the simply put it into words. I happen to subscribe to words, "WA-State of Excitement". I understand her belier. the proper words are, "WA-Relax in the State I cannot understand why if a person has so of Excitement". Ordinarily I would not raise that much money and wants blue number plates, or matter in this House, because it is not worth our happens to live a few miles out of town, he should time and attention to do so. be exempt from the compulsion involving the Mr Jamieson: It indicates a sex connotation to yellow number plates. We have no choice but to me. cart around these number plates on which are the Mr BERTRAM: It seems to be consistent words, "WA-State of Excitement", when, as I because the Government is far more interested in have said, the best part of 50 per cent of Western bamboozling with words and rhetoric rather than Australians-and probably many more-do not action-and particularly with words which are subscribe to that slogan, no matter what very often not all that accurate, substantial, or construction is placed upon it. As I have indicated worthwhile. previously, it is a legacy of a Government which People have complained about the compulsion prefers to govern by slogan, gimmickry, and aspect of having to place these number plates on words rather than by actions. their cars. As I have indicated it transpires that A few years ago if my memory is correct, The the Cabinet made this monumental decision about Superannuation Act of the State was amended for the yellow number plates. I am told-I do not the purpose of ensuring that those benefiting know with what accuracy, but someone can under the scheme-the superannuants-would interject if I am wrong-that if a person has a keep abreast or appear to be keeping abreast of country number plate this compulsion does not inflation. Some sort of indexation mechanism is apply. This is discrimination. Also if a person built into the scheme under the Act of this State. attaches so much significance to this monumental I am told that the effect of the indexation is not in subject of number plates he can obtain a blue many cases to help the superannuant to maintain number plate to give him status or whatever and the status quo, but to put him at a disadvantage in that way he is also exempt. In other words if a on the one hand, and the Fraser Treasury at an person places sufficient significance on number advantage on the other hand, both of which plates and his pocket is big enough he does not results are repugnant to most people, and have to push the State. certainly to those on this side of the House, even The best part of 50 per cent of Western if it does not concern those opposite. Australians, a lot of whom are not treated equally because we do not have an equal vote-I get one- I am told that with the inflation of the fourteenth of the vote of others- superannuation, superannuants are finding themselves caught in a position in respect of Mr Jamieson: I would say the decision of which they have no alternative and no room at all Cabinet was seven to six on this, too. to manoeuvre, unless they have half a dozen QCs Mr BERTRAM: Yes. The best part of 50 per to manoeuvre them out of it. They find their cent of Western Australians do not believe in the pension diminishes and/or they lose their fringe State of excitement and they take great exception benefits many of which come from the to being compelled to carry around that Commonwealth-or I should say, more correctly, propaganda. the Australian Government. Instead of keeping I read an article on the private man, and the up, they are falling behind, and that is a clear author complained about the bludgeoning the frustration of the indexing procedure in respect of public gets from advertisements. The article was which this Parliament did some work and went to written a few years ago when the number plate some effort to defeat. monstrosity had not been perpetrated. I wonder If I am anywhere near accurate in what I have what the author would have said about the fact said, the time is well overdue for some corrective that people are not only bludgeoned by procedure and for some mechanism to be worked advertisements, but are forced by law themselves out, by legislation or otherwise, whereby the to push advertisements especially when the superannuants are not put behind scratch but advertisement is meaningless, humbug, and have their position maintained. nonsensical, as is this one. One writer complained bitterly to me. She said The Government is no doubt under Pressure that in her opinion it was a slogan with political from the "Hancock National Party"-and in overtones, and that that was a very unhealthy using that expression I am referring to what is 466 466[ASSEMBLY] officially called the National Country Party, but I from the Government as to where the coalition will regard the two names as being now stands, since the National Country Party has interchangeable, except where the context makes become a party of a very different complexion. it it quite obvious I am referring to something else. I seems to be a party whose emphasis has very understand Mr Lang Hancock is paying much to do with mining and very little, if it ever something like $250 000 a month- had anything much, to do with matters in the Mr Jamieson: A month? country or concerning farmers. Mr BERTRAM: It is a fairly substantial sum. In one of his daily announcements the Premier If I might digress here, it causes one to wonder recently stated there will be an inquiry into the how the Cabinet will operate, because I am told Electoral Act which will be presided over by a by members on this side and there is some judge or a magistrate. The terms of reference evidence apart from that to cause one to think Mr seem to be very unsatisfactory, and I understand Hancock does not love the Premier very much, the editor of The West Australian newspaper and perhaps that feeling does not go unrequited as regards them as being neurotic, weak, and insufficient. far as the Premier is concerned. Members on this side of the House want to Mr McPharlin: Can you prove it? make it abundantly clear that they believe, as Mr BERTRAM: I reserve judgment. matters to do with voting are of fundamental Mr McPharlin: You cannot prove it. importance and as the best part of 50 per cent, Mr BERTRAM: One cannot prove many facts, and probably more, of Western Australians as the Premier well knows. We have the odd believe our electoral laws are antiquated and position where the "Hancock National Party" is unfair, this inquiry, if it is to be any good at all, sitting around the same table as the so-called should be presided over by a judge, because Liberal Party. That seems to be an extraordinary matters to do with disputed elections are dealt coalition. I have never thought much of the with by judges, not magistrates. This is a job for a coalition at the best of times, but this is judge, and the Opposition believes, without any reservations, extraordinary funding by Mr Hancock. I do not that a judge should preside over the complain. Let him fund it; that is his right; good inquiry. on him. But ordinarily if one is contributing In regard to the terms of reference, the $250 000 a month, or whatever the figure is, one editorial in The West Australian said- would also be expecting the party to conform The way has now been opened for the Act significantly to one's views and not some other to undergo a full process of reform. views. As Mr Hancock's views on fundamental Not just a little bit here, a little bit there, and a questions seem to be utterly opposed to those of little bit somewhere else. the Premier, one wonders how long the coalition In Western Australia we have exactly the same will continue in this situation, if it continues at position as exists in Rhodesia and South Africa, all. which is repugnant to the western world. The only lust taking that evidence and the situation as I distinguishing feature is degree. We do not have have briefly outlined it, it seems probable that one and never have had one-vote-one-value in this or two of the "Hancock National Party" State. While that was okay until 20 or 30 years Ministers may well find, shortly before the next ago, and it was par for the course to draw up election or in the relatively near future, that they boundaries and gerrymander and malapportion in are no longer in that party but are in some other order to secure the position of the coalition parties party. They need not have any grave misgivings in Parliament, it is no longer acceptable today. because I can assure them the Premier will That is the burning issue. The other issues to do welcome one or both of them. with postal votes and illiterate voters are merely We remember that the Premier created another subsidiary. They are important but subsidiary to four electorates and increased the costs of this the question of one-vote-one-value. Parliament by something like a quarter of a There is world concern about Rhodesia. The million dollars per annum. That is his all- same abhorrence has been expressed by President transcending desire, to govern without a coalition, Carter about South Africa. Here we have the so there should be no worries on that score. If same situation; it is only a difference of degree. those Ministers want to make the break, they can It is staggering that we could have a situation remain Ministers and they will not have many last year when legislation came before this House problems. designed to save the seat in Parliament of a That slight digression calls for some comment member of the Government; to wit, the member [Wednesday, 5th April, 1978146 467 for Kimberley. Leaders of the community those reading these remarks in Hansard should protested vehemently through protest marches, look at the answer to question 264 of the 4th writing to the Press, and all sorts of things, April, 1978, to see how much money has been because by that legislation certain people in this wasted unnecessarily because of duplication. To State who might have fifteen-fifteenths of a vote continue- were about 10 be deprived of their fifteen- (c) Optional Preferential Voting. fifteenths of one whole vote. (d) The Party Affiliation of Candidates to These leaders and others-and I refer mainly be placed on Ballot Papers. to the alleged leaders of the community and (e) The establishment of an Electoral leaders in the community-took an extremely dim Education Section within the Electoral view of that theft of their vote. The very same Department to acquaint electors, people are absolutely silent and mute, and say not particularly Aborigines and non-English a word, when for years literally thousands of speaking Australians with the electoral people in Western Australia have had stolen from laws. them, and are still having stolen from them, (f) The need for positive assistance to 14/l5ths of their vote-not 15/l5ths, as in the illiterate voters. case of certain people, If one is any more (g) The need for the expansion of the staff abhorrent than any other, then the difference is of the Electoral Department to assist in extremely marginal. enrolment and postal voting. As I have said, in regard to this Electoral Act Above all, the principal and fundamental concept inquiry the Australian Labor Party wants it to be is the question of one-vote-one-value. That is the dinkum, not like the Royal Commission into issue; the other matters are subsidiary. Important prostitution where a judge was paid a large sum albeit clearly subsidiary. of money and counsel made a fortune out of it on In the North Metropolitan Province it appears terms of reference which were completely from the latest count that the vote of the people hopeless. We were left in the position where not there is now discounted by 14 1. In other words, much of a job was done, and even the results of each constituent's vote is worth I/14 th of the that are forgotten. The problems of prostitution in votes of other Western Australians. Since I are probably just as bad as they ever this State happen to live in that province and the people I have been. We do not want that sort of nonsense. represent live in that province-as do the people We want a judge appointed and we want him to represented by the member for Scarborough and have an opportunity to show his mettle and so the member for Karrinyup-it is important that forth. this matter should be taken up. Unfortunately Additional things he should inquire into are as neither the member for Scarborough nor the follows- member for Karrinyup is in the Chamber at the (a) Election Expenses moment, but it staggers me that although they (i) disclosure of the source of funds for have this knowledge they have done nothing in all political parties this Parliament to correct the position. That clause could be put in to gladden the heart One needs to be quite good humoured in this of the "Hancock National Party". To continue- place, and quite often one's fancy is tickled in regard to the Premier's credibility. Very quickly I (ii) public funding of Party election would like to refer to a comment he made in this campaigns on the basis of their House last year just shortly before Mr Justice percentage of votes obtained at the Smith announced the result of the case he tried in previous elections the Court of Disputed Returns. (iii) limiting campaign spending to a realistic level At that time it was well known to most people, and very well known to those people close to the (b) The Amalgamation of State and Federal matter, what the judge's decision would be. It is Electoral Rolls. well known also that as a general rule the loser Even Queensland has had that provision for a pays the costs of these excursions into litigation. decade or more and we are still messing around That is not a bad rule, I suppose, while we have to with it in Western Australia, because of our go to court to fight out things that are wrong prevarication and humbug on this question. between us. So one fine day in this Chamber the People of Western Australia are losing millions of Premier announced that he, in his policy of dollars simply because we are loath to establish "evenhandedness", would see to it that the one electoral roll instead of two. I suggest that principal parties in that trial would be helped with 468 468[ASSEMBLY] their costs to the tune of $50 000 each. The Of course, no Labor Government has ever Premier worked for a while in a law office, and he controlled the upper House and therefore they prides himself on being a rather full bottle on have had no power; they have merely been in matters of law, so he would know that usually the office. The Premier understands that perfectly loser does the paying. Also, he would have a very well as the advertisement in my hand indicates, fair idea who the loser would be, and he believed because in the most blatant of print he says, that would be Mr Ridge in that contest. "Vote carefully. The Government you elect must Mr Pearce: And it was! have a majority in the Senate to govern Mr Ridge: You are guessing, aren't you? effectively." That was referring to the Federal election. However, the Premier well knows that, Mr BERTRAM: I do not want to go into that short of an earthquake, a typhoon, or something quarrel at this time; I will come to it later if time dramatic of that nature, the Labor Party has permits. At the moment I am discussing the absolutely no hope with the way things currently question of the Premier's credibility. He intended stand of ever getting a majority in the upper to give $50 000 to each party in the dispute. That House. did not sound bad to people around the streets, putting aside the fact that anybody was to receive Mr Bryce: The storm did not blow away the anything at all. Nobody pays for my costs when I Legislative Council. embark on litigation. Usually people pay their Mr BERTRAM: I would like to speak about own costs, and that is a good principle. many other things, including "Piggy Malone and Let us look at what I think occurred. The the special bureau", but I shall refer to them at judge's order was that Mr Ridge would pay Mr another time because the gong has gone and I Bridge's costs-that is a paraphrase of his actual have less than a minute remaining. order. So the Premier's action was not I have with me some very interesting photos evenhanded at all. It was $50 000 paid to Mr which I also wanted to touch on; along with other Ridge to pay his own costs, and $50 000 saved by matters. However, time does not permit me to do Mr Ridge which he would otherwise have had to so on this occasion. pay to Mr Bridge. So for practical purposes it was thoroughly uneven in that one person received MR NANOVICH (Whitford) [9.11 p.m.]: 1, $100000 and the other did not receive a cent. too, rise to support the motion so ably moved by That is the Premier's exemplification and the member for Murdoch. manifestation of his peculiar brand of accuracy, Mr Bryce: You don't have to start that way. sometimes referred to as his credibility. Mr NANOVICH: Just let me get going. The I then have another little item I would like to contributions to the Address-in- Reply so far have conclude on. I was stirred to read an been based mainly on the economic situation not advertisement which appeared in The West only in Western Australia and Australia, but in Australian of Friday, the 9th December, 1977, on the entire world. In this respect I would like to page 5. We see there the Premier's outstanding read a few of the comments made by the countenance and the advertisement is headed, "A Governor in his Speech. He said- Message from Sir Charles Court to all West Australians." I do not know who inserted this The national economy shows signs of advertisement, but no doubt a question would recovery. elicit this information for us. Difficulties persist, but lessening inflation We often hear the Premier arguing that it is and lower interest rates clearly indicate absolutely important to have a strong Opposition, improvement. although he does not define what is meant by a Western Australia is well placed to strong Opposition. My idea of a strong Opposition influence the rate and extent of the nation's is one that has sufficiently satisfied the people return to better times. that it is a worth-while and credible alternative A little further on, he went on to say- Government so that it can go to the people with a reasonable chance, a fair chance, of becoming the We are creating new jobs faster than any Government. Is this what the Premier believes to other State, although the unemployment be a strong Opposition? I do not believe that is level remains unacceptable. what he believes because it is now 146 years after Then he said- the first Parliament sat in this State in 1832, and The Government presented a balanced the nonconservative parties in this State have Consolidated Revenue Fund Budget to never controlled the upper House. Parliament in which some $17 million was [Wednesday, 5th April, 1978] 4696

allocated to activities specifically designed to improvement, and I cannot in any way see that a stimulate employment. socialist policy will cure the situation. Socialism Those are the signs of encouragement the will work only with a gun: "Take it, do it, or Governor told us about in his Speech, although he else." went on to say- Mr Pearce: Rubbish. The two-year drought still bears heavily on Mr Bryce: I think we had better vote to send certain of our rural areas. you on an overseas trip to Scandinavia or other He went on to refer to 32 shires that have been parts of western Europe. declared totally or partly drought affected. Mr NANOVICH: Therefore, I fail to see how I believe the economic situation at present is the policies of the Opposition could pull the State very worrying. I do not know whether one could out of the crisis upon which members opposite say the situation has possibly gone too far and is place so much emphasis. The only way the beyond repair; but I do not think that is the case. economy will be strengthened is by pursuing the I am sure people will realise the danger in which policies of the present Government. Governments the economy is placed at the moment, and I do not have to hand out money for unproductive believe the public not only of Western Australia spending. but of Australia and throughout the world will Mr Pearce: They give out dole money but will rally. not encourage employment. Over the past few weeks I have been listening Mr NANOVICH: Unproductive spending does to the comments of members of the Opposition, nothing to encourage the economy. particularly in respect of their criticism of the Mr Pearce: Why don't you spend more money Government over its handling of the economy, to promote jobs, as I said the week before last in and I have not yet on any occasion heard them Parliament? offer an alternative. Admittedly, the duty of the Mr NANOVICH: Has the member Finished? Opposition is to criticise the Government, but I believe its criticism has not been effective. I feel Governments are elected to create opportunities and to provide encouragement, and The previous speaker, the member for Mt. it is up to the people to accept the opportunities Hawthorn, spoke about strong Opposition. I offered to them. This is the message we must concur with the comment he read from a drive home to the people, because at the moment document wherein the Premier stated that he likes Governments make far too many monetary to see a strong Opposition. On Wednesday, the handouts. 15th March, the Leader or the Opposition moved The unemployment pay-out per annum-I do an amendment to the Address-in- Reply, and in not The West Australian on Thursday morning there think anybody knows the exact amount because it fluctuates-is in the vicinity of $700 appeared a heading on the second page-and I do on not mean to be rude by referring to the member's million to $800 million. In his speech Wednesday, the 15th March, the Leader of the name-which said, "Davies leads attack on economy". Opposition said- Bring me one such person; [ have yet to see Mr Bryce: It was page 3, not page 2. one. When people have suggested to me that Mr NANOVICH: I am sorry, I thought it was unemployed persons do not want to work I page 2. 1 appreciate it was his maiden speech as have issued the same invitation, and no-one Leader of the Opposition, and the media took the has yet been able to say, "This fellow is on opportunity to give him a fair go. However, the the dole and will not work because he is a answers by the Minister for Labour and Industry surfie." There may be some like that, but to and the Premier to the argument presented by the put every member of the unemployed in that Leader of the Opposition appeared at page 43 of category does little credit to any member of the same newspaper. this Parliament. As I said, if we are Mr Pearce: Unfair treatment by The West educating our young people to adopt that Australian! attitude, it is a sad reflection on our Mr NANOVICH: It is ridiculous when one education system. sees criticisms levelled at the Government Mr Pearce: That is very good; that is the best featured prominently in a newspaper and one has thing you have said so far. to turn to page 43 to find the answers given by the Mr NANOVICH: At no time has this Government to that criticism. Government or members of this Government I feel the economy is showing signs of accused every unemployed person of being a dole 470 470[ASSEMBLY] bludger. This Government is concerned at the funds, for example, to disabled persons and growth in unemployment: of course we are not pensioner groups within our community due to happy about that situation and we would like to the large amount flowing out in unemployment see it improved. However, I believe the problem benefits. Unemployment benefits are depriving does not stem only locally but is a national one. the needy people of our State. Currently, decisions are not being made; there is It has been estimated that, probably, something too much hesitating. Once this occurs, people in the order of 20 to 25 per cent of unemployment suffer from a loss of confidence and problems benefits is being abused. Therefore, we are grow. looking at an annual figure of some $150 to $200 Mr Pearce: Your Premier said he could cure it million which is being abused and wasted and on a State by State basis. He was the only could be saved and put to other better uses. Premier to say that. I do not believe that if we cut out the dole Mr NANOVICH: Had there been a realistic completely it would immediately solve the and sensible Government in Canberra at the time, problem, but it would go a long way towards the situation would be better now. The Opposition helping the State and country to get back on their quickly forgets that in three short years, the feet. Whitlam Government took us from a $300 million Mr Barnett: How do you think unemployed deficit to a $4000 million deficit. Do members workers should be cared for? opposite believe this staggering deficit gave this country the opportunity to recover and get back Mr NANOVICH: I do not think onto its feet within a few years? After a disaster unemployment benefits should be cut out directly, such as that created by the lavish spending of the but I think there are better means of channelling Whitlamn Government, it will take at least 10 moneys to these people. They should not simply years for the country to get back onto an even be allowed to say, "I have been down to the keel. industry you sent me to and I did not get the job, so I am back on the dole." Members can tell by Mr Bryce: Do you know how big that deficit is the jobs which have been advertised recently that now? some people just do not want to work. One of my Mr NANOVICH: How big is it? constituents who owns an industrial concern has Mr Bryce: It is very, very big. It is in excess of advertised time and time again for employees and $2 000 million. he cannot get them. He has had to revert to the Mr NANOVICH: It is declining. prison release scheme to obtain employees. Mr Bryce: Not by iii Mr Pearce: Because it is cheaper. Mr NANOVICH: I do not know where the Mr NANOVICH: Yes, it is cheaper. As a Deputy Leader of the Opposition gets his matter of fact, one of the prisoners turned out to information from, but it is declining. be his best employee to date. It is a pathetic Mr Pearce: That deficit money was going to situation that he is forced to go to the prison pay people to work; your Government pays people release scheme. not to work. Mr Pearce: Any member on this side can fill Mr NANOVICH: What a lot of rubbish that out that chap's requirements. I do it myself with is! industries in my area. They come in with the same story and I can provide them with people Mr Pearce: It is not rubbish; unemployment who want to work, within 24 hours. payments are up now. Mr NANOVICH: My constituent who 'Mr O'Connor: You have had your go; why do operates the business knows what he is talking you not let him get on with his speech? about and he is very concerned at the attitude of Mr Pearce: I would be quite happy to, but if he people who answer his advertisements or who are keeps sprouting on about economic matters, it is sent to him by the Commonwealth Employment only fair that I tell him something about the Service. economy. It will take a great deal of effort by the people Mr NANOVICH: I probably know more about of Australia before the economy gets back on its the economy than the member for Gosnells, never feet again. This Government is doing everything mind about sprouting off. I think we had better possible to stimulate the economy. Perhaps we bring in a lock and key and button up his lip. could consider tariff cuts to further stimulate The situation has become so bad that matters. However, I believe that if the people Governments cannot afford to give sufficient grasped the opportunities which are made [Wednesday, 5th April, 1978J17 471 available by the Government, the situation would the country today. We will do whatever work we improve rapidly. can find to get the country back onto its feet." My recent visit to the Pilbara clearly indicated These people should accept whatever job offers how some people are not prepared to work. Iron- come their way, despite the fact that they may be ore carriers were sitting out in the bay, not being outside their particular professional field. Even if loaded; millions of dollars worth of machinery it does not suit them entirely, they should still was lying idle, simply because of one man. accept the work. By so doing, they would enable businesses and the nation generally to recover and Mr Bryce: Whose fault was it? get back onto an even keel and, eventually, they Mr NANOVIC-: This man was told that he would find themselves back in their chosen field would have to go to another part of the industry of employment. But no, they are not doing that. for a matter of a week or so, but he defied the That is why the situation is not getting any better. order by his superior and said he would not do it. I should now like to refer briefly to my He was required under the terms of his electorate. Before doing so I wish to compliment employment to move from area to area if the Minister for Water Supplies. Recently I asked necessary, but he would not adhere to the him a question about the percentage of home agreement. He was requested on three or four users in the metropolitan area who have their own occasions to shift to another section in the water resources and the Minister replied that a industry but he declined to accept the order and recent reliable estimate was that on the 1st was fired. This resulted in a general strike, all December, 1976, the Percentage was 7.8. 1 think because of one man. it is now more than that and I shall be asking the Mr Bryce: Are you blaming the workers in the Minister more questions in that regard because it Pilbara for all strikes? is an important subject and I know that there has Mr NANOVICH: In this case I do, because been a real increase in the number of bores which the situation was brought about by one man, have been installed at homes throughout the metropolitan area. I claim that within the next Mr Bryce: Is that a generalisation? decade anything up to 30 per cent or 40 per cent Mr NANOVICH-: The entire mining industry of home users will be drawing water from their came to a halt because of this one man. own bores. Mr Bryce: Are you prepared to lay the blame Recently I watched the Minister on the for the industrial unrest in the Pilbara at the feet television programme "State File". He answered of the unions? a question about piping water from the north and, Mr NANOVICH: I believe very sincerely and although I do not know the exact cost per strongly that a person should have the right to thousand litres, the Minister made the proposition hire and fire. Does that answer the Deputy appear rather ridiculous because the cost would Leader of the Opposition's question? With that make such a project uneconomical. I can see there situation occurring in the Pilbara and with similar will be an increase in bores in the next decade difficulties arising throughout the rest of because in certain parts of the metropolitan area Australia and other parts of the world, we really it is a simple matter to get quick access to shallow have a problem. water. I realise that a number of school teachers are I believe we ought to be conserving water even not able to obtain a posting at the moment. more than we are doing at present. The However, there are probably architects, lawyers, Metropolitan Water Board is to be congratulated and electricians who are also faced with the same for the programme which has been initiated. I get situation; it does not apply only to teachers. What many shots fired at me by people asking me when a funny world this would be if everybody wanted the Government is going to lift the ban and allow to be a school teacher, an architect, a solicitor, a sprinklers to operate again. But the system is not motor mechanic, an electrician, a plumber, a so restrictive because there is nothing to prevent a bricklayer, a carpenter, or even a politician. There person from watering his garden with a hose all would not be enough room to accommodate them day. The problem arises because of the time all. which is consumed in doing so and when both a However, we are confronted today with a husband and wife work it is very difficult to situation where unemployed people with certain ensure that gardens and lawns are watered. qualifications are not prepared to accept a However, the campaign has been successful and position where they must work at unskilled I hope the dams are filled rapidly because of the labour. That does not help the situation. I believe heavy rains which I believe we will get towards everybody should say, "Okay, we have a crisis in the middle of winter. This will help to ease the 472 472[ASSEMBLY] situation, but we ought to take great care and the Joondalup subregional centre is ready to preserve our water resources. If we do so we will commence development. Only a few formalities be comfortably accommodated for many years to are holding up its commencement. However, the come. plans will be finalised in a very short period and I should like also to comment on the State we will have the Joondalup centre in its initial Housing Commission, It could build homes in a developmental stages. If the road were local authority area and make them available at constructed through to Hepburn Avenue within the discretion of the shire. I do not mean they five years it would be a most welcome move. should be for housing shire employees. In a shire I would like to make a point regarding the which has welfare workers-and the Wanneroc extension of Marmion Avenue to the northern Shire has a welfare worker who dedicates 95 per portion of the Wanneroo Shire. Marmion Avenue cent of her time to elderly people, pensioners, and is going to be a prime road and the recent disabled people-these homes could be allocated breakup of land previously held by the Mindary by the shire for occupation by unfortunate people Pastoral Company, an area consisting of 6000 who are asked to leave their homes because of acres, has meant that the area has been difficult circumstances. These people have subdivided into 16 portions held by separate nowhere to go and the shire could accommodate owners. These people will be wanting to them. They would do valuable work within the commence development of their land in a fairly community and the provision of these homes short space of time. This will necessitate the would lessen the burden on the State Housing extension of Marmion Avenue and now is the Commission. Of course, the shires would not time to do this. allow these people to occupy the homes for a If the developers were to discuss the possibility lengthy period, probably a maximum of six weeks of the early completion of the road with the Main until they are able to find other accommodation, Roads Department and other relevant and then the homes would be available for Government departments and managed to somebody else in difficult circumstances. I do not convince the authorities to complete the road now, know at this stage whether this could take place it would be much cheaper than waiting another under the provisions of the present Act or whether seven or so years. there would have to be an amendment to the Act to allow the commission to do this, but I should This Government was criticised very heavily by appreciate it if the Minister would take up this the Opposition on the subject of pre-schools. I matter and perhaps at a later date advise me believe however that the Opposition claimed the whether it could be done or whether the programme was an excellent one, but as I said commission would be prepared to review the earlier in my speech, it is their right to criticise proposition favourably. the Government and attempt to bring it down. The Opposition tried to turn the debate on pre- I should also like to commend the Minister for schools into an emotional issue and did little to Police and Traffic. The people of my electorate and also other parts of Wanneroo welcome the help the situation. fact that tenders have been called for the new I intend to quote some figures indicating the police station complex in Warwick. The two- number of four and five-year-olds waiting to join storey building, which will be situated on Erindale the pre-school system, and although these figures Road, will consist of an administration office, a are as correct as I could possibly establish I hope district office, CIB quarters, RTA no-one will criticise me too harshly if they are not accommodation, and holding cells. This building in fact 100 per cent correct. will enable the police to operate far more In the Padbury area there are 148 four-year- effectively than they can from their current olds and 51 five-year-olds; in Sorrento, 112 four- premises which are only of a temporary nature. year-olds and 20 five-year-olds; in Yagan, 136 In an earlier speech in this House I mentioned four-year-olds and 30 ive-year-olds: in Warwick, the urgent need for the extension of the Mitchell 160 four-year-olds and 64 flve-year-olds; in Freeway. Of course, this will take an enormous Carine, 127 four-year-olds and 15 flve-year-olds; amount of moneyand progress is very slow. This in Hillarys. 92 four-year-olds and 29 five-year- year it is anticipated that it will reach Hutton olds; in Craigie, 141 four-year-olds and 15 Five- Street and in the next few years it will reach year-olds; in Duncraig, 148 four-year-olds, and 62 Karrinyup Road. But there is an urgent need for five-year-olds: in Greenwood, 221 four-year-olds it to be extended further north and I urge the and 174 five-year-olds; in Kallaroo, 126 four- Federal Government to ensure that funds year-olds and 20 flve-year-olds; and in Mullaloo, continue to flow for this important road because 49 four-year-olds and eight five-year-olds. The [Wednesday, 5th April, 1978]17 473 rest of the children are in the Girrawbeen area or special provisions have to be made and in the areas 10 the north of Wanneroo. I have put into effect quickly. So far as the merely quoted the figures for areas in my actual rehabilitation of properties and electorate. the like is concerned, the normal The Wanneroo Shire Council is very interested procedures will prevail in which the in accommodating children of this age group. The Treasury stands ready to work with council is contemplating the development of all- other Government agencies to make purpose buildings and I believe a committee has available the necessary facilities for been formed which has met with members of the applications. It would be impracticable Pre-School Board. Certainly I shall be pursuing for me to be precise regarding the exact the Minister to ensure that some assistance can be forms of relief and the methods of given to the shire. If the shire is prepared to assessing them, because no two disasters construct these all-purpose buildings surely the are quite alike. In this case we are Government should be sufficiently responsible to dealing with a combination or' things: in give some assistance. If the Government can do some cases flood from the inroads of the this it will be a major breakthrough. I hope the sea, and in other cases the straightout Government takes up the shire's initiative and question of fire damage. assists the shire by providing funds for this However, I can say that as a result of purpose. discussions with the Commonwealth I wanted to make a few remarks for the benefit Government the Prime Minister has of the member for Cockburn. However I would already sent me formal advice that the rather wait until another time as the member is normal natural disaster relief finances not present and it is not my habit to criticise any will prevail so far as the Commonwealth member who is not in the House. I have enough is concerned, in accordance with the information here to prove that the member did formula that exists. Under that formula not do his homework. I support the motion. some things qualify for assistance by the Commonwealth subject to the State Debate adjourned, on motion by Mr Jamieson. having met its quota for the present House adjourned at 9.45 p.m. financial year, which in fact we have. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE In other matters we are on our own, but DISASTER RELIEF this will be determined when we can see more precisely the nature of the Financial Assistance damage. 1. Mr DAVIES, to the Premier: In the meantime, we are more concerned I preface my question with the remark about taking every possible step for the that the Opposition extends every protection of life and limb and with that, sympathy to the people who suffered as of course, personal property. It usually a result of the most disastrous storm takes a day or two before we can assess which hit the southern part of the State the full extent of the damage and then last night. start to make an appraisal of how best to (1) Will disaster relief be made provide personal relief beyond that available to people who sustained which is available locally and has loss from wind and fire during last already been given, and what relief night's storm in the south-west? should be provided in respect of the (2) If so, for what purpose? rehabilitation of assets. (3) What will be the eligibility criteria Mr Davies: Is it likely that a committee will for such relief?) be set up as in the case of previous Sir CHARLES COURT replied: disasters? (1) to (3) In accordance with normal Sir CHARLES COURT: We will consider custom in matters of this kind where a this overnight and make up our minds natural or other form of disaster is regarding how best to administer it. For involved which qualifies people for instance, in Port Hedland we set up a relief, the Government stands ready to local committee which met very quickly deal with the situation, first of all in and effectively. In the one room we had matters of urgent personal relief where representatives of insurance companies there is personal hardship. In such cases and the committee that had been set up, 474 474[ASSEMBLY]

comprising the local manager of the (a) assistance in the form of materials Rural and Industries Bank and a required to repair such fences could representative of the local authority, as be supplied by the Government to well as a Treasury man. In that case relevant local government people could have their problems dealt authorities; and with on the spot. However, that was (b) urgent liaison between State and easier because we were dealing with Federal Government departments something involving substantially one could be undertaken to facilitate location. the employment of currently On this occasion we have the problem unemployed persons under the supervision of local government or that typically arises in the south-west in other suitable supervisory which we have a widespread disaster authorities for the utilisation of area with many centres, and so we will such materials in the repair of all be working out ways and means of roadside boundary fencing in the dealing with this quickly and effectively shortest possible time? on the spot so that people will not have to do a lot of travelling. Mr OLD replied: (a) and (b) I thank the member for Murray Mr Davies: Is there likely to be a public for some notice of this question. The appeal? whole matter of storm and fire damage Sir CHARLES COURT: It is premature to is being investigated as quickly and conjecture on whether or not that will be thoroughly as possible by my necessary. One of the things one learns department, and recommendations from being involved in many such arising from this investigation will be occasions as this one, is that it is placed before the Government as soon as important to let the first 24 hours pass possible. to enable a certain amount of clearing up to be done so that a proper appraisal can be made, and then it is possible to WORKERS' COMPENSATION see more clearly exactly how much TLC Delegation assistance is necessary beyond that normally provided by the Government. 3. Mr BRYCE, to the Minister for Labour and Industry: Mr Speaker, the response from throughout Australia has been quite spontaneous and With reference to his meeting with the impressive as well as very encouraging Trades and Labor Council delegation this morning, did the Minister make a because, without any prompting from us, firm commitment to refer the issue of there have been many inquiries from people cuts in the rate of workers' in other parts of Australia as to how they can compensation to a committee of help. For the moment we have said that we inquiry? appreciate their interest and will note their offers and let them know as quickly as we Mr GRAYDEN replied: can how they can help. Certainly not. The Trades and Labor Council submitted views in respect of the proposed amendments, and I simply DISASTER RELIEF undertook to convey those views to Cabinet. Boundary Fences 2. Mr SHALDERS, to the Minister for Agriculture: PARLIAMENT HOUSE In view of the many kilometres of Emergency Lighting boundary fehicing which have been 4. Mr HODGE, to the Premier: destroyed on rural properties by last My question is related to last night's night's storm and the resulting hazards storm, although it is of a less serious to motorists of straying stock on roads, nature than previous ones which the would the Minister indicate whether- Premier has answered. Last night at [Wednesday, 5th April, 19781 4757

approximately 7.15 p.m. the power went The SPEAKER: On the face of it it appears off in Parliament House and 1, along to me that the subject of this question is with a number of other members, was outside the ministerial responsibility of left to try to find my way out of the the Minister for Agriculture. As I have building in pitch blackness. I stumbled serious doubts about its eligibility, I along for quite a while and almost fell suggest that the member give notice of down the rear stairs. The staff did the the question and I shall make up my best they could and I was supplied with mind as to whether it is suitable for what is apparently the normal admission. emergency lighting for Parliament House, until it blew out. Will the Premier look at the question of Providing some sort of suitable emergency lighting for Parliament House or else ensure that members are STATE HOUSING COMMISSION covered by workers' compensation? Storm Damage Repairs The SPEAKER: This question ought to have 7. Mr SHALDERS, to the Minister for been directed to the Speaker and, under Housing: the requirements of the Standing In view of the fact that hundreds of Orders, I ask that the member place it State Housing Commission homes have on the notice paper and I shall provide been damaged in the last 24 hours, can him with an answer. the Minister advise what action is being taken for those affected? ELECTRICITY SUPPLIES Mr O'CONNOR replied: I thank the honourable member for Return to Normal Supply some notice of the question. I conferred S. Mr JAMIESON, to the Minister for Fuel very early this morning with the and Energy: Manager of the State Housing Can the Minister indicate to the House Commission (Mr McKenna) and it when it is anticipated that the supply of appears that throughout the State in electricity will be completely back to excess of 1000 State Housing normal; and will industry be able to Commission homes have been affected, function fully as from tomorrow? most of them fortunately in a minor way. There are about 300 in the Mr MENSAROS replied: Dunbury area and perhaps the worst I am informed that present indications affected area is the Lockyer estate in are that the full load can be supplied by Albany where a number of roofs have the latest tomorrow. Only a few parts of been blown off and there is more the metropolitan area are presently not extensive damage than in most other connected. The reason is not the fault in places. the generating plants, which presently We have given authority for the people are all in working order, but the heavy in charge of various districts to act deposits of salt and dust which have to immediately to arrange for all the be washed away from the various parts necessary repairs to be done without of the transmission lines. reference to the commission in Perth. We have also already arranged for a number of people whose homes have BAUXITE MINING been rendered uninhabitable to be Parliamentary NCP Policy transferred to other homes. I know that some people at Coolbellup and other 6. Mr BRYCE, to the Minister for Agriculture: areas have been transferred, and the What is the policy of the parliamentary commission is doing everything possible National Country Party towards the to make sure that people are not proposed expansion of bauxite mining in inconvenienced more than can be the Darling scarp? helped.