Notices of Motions and [5 SEPT., 1962] Questions without Notice 103

meeting the continual demand for ampli­ ARMIDALE MILK SUPPLY fication and extension of the water supply PETITION system in its area. I pay £22 and some Mr. HuGHES presented a petitiOn from odd shillings a year for water for my wife certain citizens of Armidale praying that and myself. That amount may be all right for us, but consider the plight of a pen­ private enterprise be permitted to continue sioner who has his own home. The water to operate the local milk supply until its board does not sell water unless more than capacity to do so has been demonstrated a stipulated amount is used, when it makes to be unsatisfactory and the issue has been determined by the majority of the people at an extra charge for the excess. Its system is to apply a rate to the annual rental value a referendum. of each property. This hurts a lot of people Petition received on motion by Mr. and I have heard many complaints about it. Hughes. By the time people pay their council rates and water rates they are up for more than £1 a week, as I am, and for a person who NOTICES OF MOTIONS AND is on a pension that is quite a lot of money. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE Another cause of hardship is the increases that are continually made by the Valuer­ POKER MACHINES General in property valuations. Mr. SEIFFERT: I ask the Minister of Some consideration should be given by Justice whether, in recent times, a number of persons who have appeared before courts the Government to the system of selling on charges of embezzlement or misappro­ Crown land by auction. Though these sales priation of funds have blamed their defal­ might be in restricted areas, in my humble cations on over-indulgence in poker opinion they could have the effect of in­ machines or their fascination for these creasing the value of land generally. If machines. Is it a fact that, prior to the this is so, it is not right. People who legalising of poker machines, it was not un­ are working to get a borne together should common for persons of a similar type to not have to pay the large amounts de­ blame their misappropriation of funds on an over-indulgence in betting on the dogs, manded today for building blocks. the trots, or the horses? If these are facts, Debate adjourned, on motion by the to ascertain the true position, will the Min­ Hon. R. L. Day. ister have a survey made of the number of charges of embezzlement and misappropria· House adjourned, on motion by the Hon. R. R. Downing, at 6.26 p.m. tion that have come before the courts in the past ten years, and also over ten or twenty years prior to the legalisation of poker machines? Mr. MANNIX: From time to time people ifirgi.alntiut As.srmbly. are committed to prison after being found Wednesday, 5 September, 1962 guilty of embezzlement and similar crimes. It is true that they make all sorts of ex­ cuses for having been led into a particular Armidale Milk Supply (Petition)-Notices of Motions and Questions without Notice-Local Government line of crime. I do not know the extent Department-New South Wales Ambulance Trans­ of the records that are available to me to port Service Board-Hunter Valley Conservation Trust-University of Sydney-University of New undertake the survey suggested by the bon. England-Bursary Endowment Board-Department of Education-River Murray Commission-Rural member for Monaro, but I shall examine Reconstruction Board-Personal Explanation (Des­ the position to see whether it is possible to truction of Foxes)-Governor's Speech: Address in Reply (Second Day's Debate)-Adjournment. produce some statistics of the type sought by him. From matters that come before me from day to day administratively, it Mr. SPEAKER took the chair at 2.30 p.m. would seem that when unemployment is The Prayer was read. on the increase there is a corresponding rise 104 Notices of Motions and [ASSEMBLY] Questions without Notice in crimes such as embezzlement, false pre­ that no such opinion was sought from the tences and the passing of forged cheques. Crown Solicitor and no such opinion has There has been a marked rise in crimes of been submitted to Cabinet. this sort in the past two years. STAMP DUTIES ACT SYDNEY OPERA HOUSE Mr. MURPHY: I ask the Deputy Pre­ Mr. ASKIN: I ask the Minister for Pub­ mier, Treasurer and Minister for Indus­ lic Works whether yesterday the press ran trial Development and Decentralisation prominent articles declaring that, following whether he has been the recipient of com­ advice from the Crown Solicitor, the State plaints about undue delays caused by varia­ Government has found that it is powerless tions in interpretations of the application to control the cost of the Sydney Opera of the Stamp Duties Act. Has his atten­ House. Is the truth of these articles sup­ tion been called to a lengthy article that ported by a press statement today that a appeared on 30th August last in the Daily German tender has been accepted for the Telegraph in which it is alleged that a lighting of the opera house, despite the fact revenue squeeze, involving undue use of that it is £200,000 higher than a tender red tape and variations of long established by a reputable British firm that has a branch interpretations of the Stamp Duties Act, is in Australia? causing loss and inconvenience to members of the legal profession and their clients? Mr. HILLS: Wrong again. If the Minister has not read the article, Mr. ASKIN: I am asking whether this will he undertake to have it examined and is a fact. I am not making a statement. inform the House of the true position? The Minister for Local Government and Mr. RENSHAW: Unfortunately I did Minister for Highways betrays his inexperi­ not read the article in the newspaper, but perience. Is it a fact that in this morning's my attention was drawn to it. I have press the Minister for Public Works has asked the Stamp Duties Office to supply given an equivocal denial of the charge information to enable me to inform the that the Government has lost control of House of the true position. Immediately costs? To settle doubts and suspicions, I have the information at my disposal I will the Minister table the report of the shall inform the House. Crown Solicitor so that the public will know the actual position? SCHOOL TRANSPORT Mr. P. N. RYAN: My attention was Mr. ROBINSON: I ask the Premier called to a report in one of yesterday after­ whether free school travel for the third and noon's newspapers, and again to an article subsequent children of each family was in the same paper today, in relation to promised at the recent general elections. matters affecting the opera house. It is Is it a fact that the proposal included an completely untrue that the Government has undertaking that free travel would be made lost control of the costs of the project, and retrospective to the beginning of the 1962 I intimated as much in a statement that I school year? Will the Premier inform the made to the press last evening. The Gov­ House of the action proposed to be taken ernment has, and will continue to have, by the Government to honour this im­ complete control over expenditure on the portant promise and will he make an early building of the opera house. It is not a statement, which is eagerly awaited by fact that a contract has been let for the thousands of children and their parents in stage lighting, which again is referred to New South Wales? in today's press. Furthermore, there is no submission on this matter before Cabinet, Mr. HEFFRON: I followed the hon. as was alleged in the press yesterday. Tak­ member's question carefully and I am quite ing 'the third allegation, that the Crown up to date with the facts. My colleague, Solicitor has made a special secret report the Minister for Education, has a statement to Cabinet, again I can say categorically to make on this subject and rather than cut Notices of Motions and [5 SEPT., 1962] Questions without Notice 105 across what he is going to say I suggest that Mr. SPEAKER: Order! the hon. member direct his question to the Mr. ENTICKNAP: I would not have Minister for Education. I am sure that the thought that the hon. member for Wollon­ hon. member will be given a satisfactory dilly had that sense of responsibility. answer. Mr. LEWIS: Look who is talking. CUDGEGONG ABATIOIR Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Yesterday I made Mr. NOTT: I ask the Minister for Agri­ a passing reference to interjections that are culture whether it is a fact that the Cudge­ completely irrelevant. I make the observa­ gong (Abattoir) County Council, the auth­ tion that this one today is in exactly the ority responsible for building an abattoir at same category. It has no bearing whatever Mudgee, forwarded plans and specifications on the reply of the Minister. I do n'ot pro­ to the Department of Agriculture on 4th pose to permit this kind of conduct. No July, and by letter of 20th August was in­ Minister and no back-bencher on either formed that .the plans could not be ex­ side of the House can object to an interjec­ amined until the Minister's abattoir consul­ tion that is revelant and pertinent but these tant, Mr A. E. Towns, returned from leave absurd interjections contribute nothing to in about one month. Is it a fact, too, that Parliament and add nothing to the stature plans have been approved by the Depart­ of the member making them. ment of Primary Industry and the only re­ Mr. ENTICKNAP: It is a serious matter quirement prior to the calling of tenders is and I know that these delays are worrying approval of the plans by the Department of to the county council and the hon. mem­ Agriculture? Will the Minister make in­ ber. The application arrived at the depart­ quiries with a view of expediting a decision ment on 4th July. Two inspectors, both on this matter? men well versed in matters of this kind, Mr. ENTICKNAP: It is true that the have gone into it, and their examination department received plans for the construc­ will be completed within less than a week. tion of an abattoir to the value of almost At the same time the matter has £500,000 from the Cudgegong County gone to Mr. Towns. Unfortunately Council on 4th July. Delays occurred, we have the · services of Mr. Towns first because of its siting and second only on a part-time basis, and be because of an investigation into the is perhaps the best man in his field in New high. cost. Now investigations are being South Wales and, indeed, in Australia. made to ascertain whether the plans are When he returns from leave the plans will satisfactory. The department has had no be dealt with by him and we shall do our alternative but to have a competent con­ utmost to expedite the matter. sultant investigate these matters. It has struck trouble with other abattoirs that SCHOOLS IN WOI .LONDILLY have been built. We have found that ten­ ELECTORATE ders have been let and later consultants Mr. LEWIS: Is the Premier aware that have had to alter the plans and consider­ the Minister for Education has made re­ ably reduce the type of work to be con­ peated promises to build schools at Moss structed. It is rather important when Vale and other centres of population and building a £500,000 project that the whole that those promises have been dishonoured undertaking is thoroughly examined. It is by the. Government? In view of the num­ annoying, I know. ber of those broken promises and the grave concern felt by citizens, will the Premier Mr. LEWIS: We believe that. demand the resignation of the Minister for Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Education and appoint to his position a man who can get the work done? Mr. ENTICKNAP: I am glad you do. Mr. HEFFRON: My very distinguished Mr. LEWIS: You ought to see the Minis- colleague, the Minister for Education, will ter for Public Works. be holding his portfolio and will be in this 106 Notices of Motions and [ASSEMBLY] Questions without Notice House for a much longer period than the make the small arms factory at Lithgow hon. member for Wollondilly is likely to one of the training schools within our tech­ be here. The bon. member is one of those nical education system? marked down for special attention when the Mr. HEFFRON: Naturally, I shall be opportunity again presents itself. That happy to look into the matter raised by the kind of question is characteristic of him. hon. member for Hartley and to do what­ He has made a special point, since he has ever is necessary. On many occasions I been a member of this House, of being per­ have said that it is tragic that competent sonally offensive to Ministers and other boys and girls who are leaving school are hon. members on this side, and even at this unable, after years of study and expense to stage of his political career if he has their parents, to become apprentices in suit­ enough sense to realise that it pays to be able trades. Though •they are capable of courteous he will probably get attention going much further in various trades and that will make him happier. The Minister professions, and despite the nation's need and I, who preceded him in the office, have for skilled workers, it is a tragedy that com­ carried out as quickly as the financial paratively little attention has been given to arrangements we work under have allowed enlarging the private sources of apprentice­ all promises to build schools. ship for these young and intelligent people. During the regime of this Govern­ Australia cannot afford to let them go un­ ment the number of schools built trained, for everywhere work is waiting to puts into the shade the puny efforts be done. However, this work cannot be of the party to which the hon. mem­ done until the necessary training is provided. ber for Wollondilly belongs when it was in office. When Labor started to administer During the sixteen years that I was this State, particularly when I became Min­ Minister for Education special and con­ ister for Education, our schools were a sistent attention was given to the develop­ positive disgrace. Over the years we have ment of technical education ; as a result attended to the job of improving them and technical colleges and corresponden~ we have now built up a system of educa­ courses are available throughout the State. tion in this State from kindergarten to uni­ Other actjvities, such as Apprenticeship versity the like of which is not known in Week, are now accepted in our community, any other State of Australia-and perhaps and we certainly do not lack equipment or in few other countries. In those circum­ teachers in any of our colleges. The only stances it does little credit to an bon. lack is opportunities. More and more em­ member to ask an insulting question that ployers could be taking on apprentices, reflects on a very conscientious Minister. thereby doing the boys and girls a good The hon. member for Wollondilly should turn by giving them the opportunity to find something better to do than to indulge learn a trade and, at the same time, doing in abuse and ridicule, characteristics that the nation a good turn. We all know that are so common to him. the number of school leavers is growing, and we all appreciate the apprehension of EMPLOYMENT OF SCHOOL LEAVERS the bon. member for Hartley and the parents of the children. Mr. ROBSON: I ask the Premier whether it is a fact that many children I assure the hon. member that I have who left school last year are still without already taken up this matter with the Prime a job? Is it a fact, also, that i"t is estimated Minister at the most recent Premiers' Con­ that about 62,000 children will leave school ference ; indeed, I gave it a definite airing this year? If these are facts, will the at the Loan Council as well. I know that Premier appeal to private enterprise to take my colleague the Minister for Education is on as many apprentices as possible in the doing everything that is humanly possible coming year? Will he also ensure that the and I know that an instruction has been public service takes similar action? issued to all the departments of government Further, will the Premier make representa­ to engage as many apprentices as possible. tions to the Commonwealth Government to This is no matter of politics: it is a matter Notices of Motions and [5 SEPT., 1962] Questions without Notice 107 of striking a blow so that, instead of being TAMARAMA BUS SERVICE worried about our inability to get skilled Mr. WALSH: I ask the Minister for workers from overseas, we shall train many Transport whether, some time ago, the pro­ of those here who have the ability and will prietor of the private bus service running to become first-class tradesmen. on route 79 from Tamarama to the city Mr. JACK BEALE: I wish to ask a completely discontinued Sunday services. Is supplementary question. Will the Premier the Minister aware that his action has say whether certain aspects of the present almost isolated some residents of Tama­ apprenticeship system in New South Wales rama and Bronte on Sundays, causing prevent private employers from engaging them serious physical inconvenience and probably causing, also, a spiritual deteriora­ apprentices? Is this particularly so with country employers? Will the Premier say, tion in the area, by reason of the fact that all the churches attended by these people also, whether the present system prevents from undertaking apprenticeships not only are situated on the higher parts of Waver­ those immediately leaving school, but also ley? If these are facts, will the Minister take action to compel the proprietor of this those who completed their school studies private bus service to give a better service some years ago. If these are facts, will the to the people of my electorate in the Tama­ Premier take up this matter with the Minis­ rama and Bronte areas or, failing that, will ter for Labour and Industry, with a view to having discussions with private enterprise the Government institute a government bus service that will give local residents the to see whether more young people can be service to which they are reasonably encouraged to enter industry as apprentices? entitled? Mr. HEFFRON: No system is 100 per Mr. McMAHON: It is true that the cent perfect, but I know enough about the Tamarama-Sydney bus service has been run situation to appreciate that if employers, by private enterprise for a considerable whether in the country or in the city, but number of years. It is true, also, that the particularly in the cities, had the will to original franchise entered into with the pri­ train apprentices, most of the young people vate bus operator provided for a direct whom I mentioned and about whom the service between Tamarama beach and the bon. member for Hartley is concerned could city and a flat fare because it was an express be apprenticed to a trade. There is no service. Since then transport arrangements excuse for this not being done. The lack and the travelling habits of the people have of apprentices stems very largely from the undergone a substantial change. Hon. fact that many employers do not want to members constantly hear criticism of gov­ bother about training apprentices. ernment transport, but here is an example Mr. JACK BEALE: A lot of them do. of reduced bus services by private enter­ prise. The proprietor of this bus service Mr. HEFFRON: That may be so, but made an application to the Commissioner a lot of them do not. An employer who for Motor Transport for curtailment of his fails to train apprentices is not doing his job service on the ground of economic loss for industry. He adopts a short-sighted occasioned by lack of patronage on Sun­ point of view, and sooner or later this atti­ days. The department, after investigation, tude will have more telling repercussions acceded to the proprietor's application and than are being experienced today. There permitted him to terminate the service on is a job for employers to do, and it is plain Sundays. Since then many requests have that it can be done. been made by bon. members for me to receive deputations about this matter. I Mr. JACK BEALE: It is a real problem. am having it thoroughly investigated, be­ cause at present another application is Mr. HEFFRON: It is not a real problem. It is a real and most important task that before me by the bus proprietor to curtail has been neglected by people who, if they further his services in the evenings during had the will, could put it right tomorrow. the week. I intend, as soon as I have all 108 Notices of Motions and [ASSEMBLY] Questions without Notice

the facts associated with these matters, to FLUORIDATION call into consultation with myself and the Mr. BOOTH: I ask the Minister for Commissioner for Motor Transport those Health whether it is a fact that a great hon. members who have made representa­ deal of controversy surrounds the introduc­ tions for deputations, and we will thoroughly tion of fluoride into the water supplies of investigate the matter. New South Wales. Will the Minister have inquiries made into the system that operates LOCAL-GOVERNMENT BOUNDARIES in Scandinavian countries, where fluoride COMMISSION is introduced into the milk supply, particu­ Mr. MORTON: I ask the Minister for l~rly as milk is made available freely to Local Government and Minister for High­ school children in New South Wales? ways whether it is a fact that shortly he Mr. SHEAHAN: I do not agree that will introduce into this House legislation there is a great amount of controversy to create a local-government boundaries about fluoridation. I admit that there is commission. Will the Minister, when he is some, but there is not a great amount. introducing that legislation, name the mem­ Anyone who reads the latest reports on the bers of the commission? If up to the pre­ subject from Great Britain, particularly sent the Minister has not considered this the summary which has been published in aspect of the matter, will he kindly do so, the information publication of the United so that when the legislation is being debated Kingdom Information Services in the Aus­ bon. members will be aware of all the tralian Capital Territory, will find that the facts? controversy has greatly waned in Great Mr. HILLS: In His Excellency's speech Britain. It is, of course, being kept alive yesterday reference was made to a proposal by a small element in the community by the Government to introduce legislation that has created in some areas some for the establishment of a boundaries com­ disquiet about the matter. The pro­ mission consisting of three members-an posal by the bon. member for Kurri independent chairman, a person nomin­ Kurri about putting fluoride tablets in milk ated by the Minister for Local Govern­ is one that I have not personally investi­ ment, and a person nominated jointly by gated. I shall ask for some information the Shires Association and the Local Gov­ on the subject and will have the suggestion ernment Association. examined. I can foresee great difficulties in fluoridation in tablet form. For instance, Mr. WILLIS: That was not in the Gover­ the number of authorities involved in add­ nor's speech. ing fluoride to the milk supply of school children or any other persons could be very Mr. HILLS: I suggest that the bon. great. However, as soon as I have received member might read the Governor's speech. expert opinion on the matter I shall let the Mr. SPEAKER: And I suggest that the bon. member know. hon. member for Earlwood might not in­ Mr. ROBSON: As a supplementary terrupt in that disorderly fashion. question, I ask the Minister for Health whether the majority of people in New Mr. HILLS: I have had discussions with South Wales are against fluoridation? the presidents of the Local Government Association and the Shires Association, and Mr. SHEAHAN: I am afraid that the they are quite satisfied with the proposal bon. member is not in possession of the concerning their nominee. If, during the data on the subject that has been supplied introduction of the legislation, it is possible to me. He might have the result of some for me to intimate to the House who the Gallup poll of his own as a basis for mak­ independent chairman and the person nom­ inated by the Minister will be-on the ing that statement, but I am inclined to be­ understanding, of course, that both Houses lieve that the great majority of people in of Parliament agree to the legislation-! New South Wales are in favour of shall do so. fluoridation. Notices of Motions and [5 SEPT., B62] Questions without Notice 109

SCHOOL TRANSPORT Hon. members are fairly well acquainted Mr. CHAFFEY: Following the question with what the Premier's promise means. If asked by the hon. member for Casino of there are three children in a family attend­ the Premier about school bus services, is ing school, payment under the existing sub­ the Minister for Education in a position sidy scheme is being made in respect of all to make a statement to the House, as fore­ three. However, the payment of the subsidy shadowed by the Premier? implies that a certain commitment must be met by the parents of those three children. Mr. WETHERELL: I recall the ques­ Under the new scheme the parents will not tion asked by the hon. member for Casino have to make any payment for the third -whether the Premier's pre-election child. I believe that is the position. That promise was to be implemented. In the is as far as I need go here today. All the first place, every hon. member ought to details have been worked out, but the de­ know that when the Premier makes a partment must await the return of the com­ promise to do something, it will be done. pleted forms before implementing the I, too, made the promise after hearing the promise made by the Premier in his policy Premier make his own statement on the speech. subject, and I also will honour every promise that I make. Mr. ASKIN: As a supplementary ques­ tion, I ask the Minister for Education whe­ Mr. CRAWFORD: When? ther it is a fact that the proposed conces­ Mr. WETHERELL: As soon as pos­ sion is not to apply to children in the sible-the same as this party's admini­ metropolitan area who travel to school by istrations have done on every occa­ private bus. If this be true, is it also a sion. The Premier promised that free fact that no mention was made of this pro­ transport would be provided for the third child and subsequent children in a family posed exclusion in the policy speech made where those children are attending school by the Premier before the last elections? If and are at present paying bus fares. It these are facts, will the Minister give the has been decided that that phase will be House any substantial reason why children implemented immediately, and today and who are compelled to travel by private bus tomorrow forms are being sent out to services, not having any government ser­ headmasters of all schools. They must be vice, should be substantially worse off finan­ completed, and when they are ~returned cially than those who travel by government the new form of payment, as promised by buses?. the Premier, will be made available to the Mr. WETHERELL: The Premier pro­ parents of those children. A promise of mised to make provision, within the present retrospective payment was made in the subsidy scheme, for the 'third child and Premier's policy speech and that undertak­ subsequent children. The Premier referred ing, also, will be kept. When the com­ to the expansion of the subsidy scheme. He pleted forms are returned the department did not promise in his policy speech to will make retrospective payments as soon as make this concession available to those possible. I should not like people to say referred to by the Leader of the Opposi­ that because we cannot make these pay­ tion. However, this matter has been raised. ments in a fortnight we have gone back on It has not yet been resolved, but I am our promise-and somebody might then sure that it will be determined at a very ask the Premier to withdraw my portfolio. early date. In fact, it is an outstanding I should not like that to happen. How­ issue, and not a great number in the city of ever, that payment will be made as soon as Sydney would be affected by it. At a later it is possible for us to do so-and that will date I hope to be able to make a further not be long. announcement in relation to it. 110 Notices of Motions and [ASSEMBLY] Questions without Notice CAMDEN-CAMPBELLTOWN RAILWAY as distinct from residential dwellings. Upon SERVICE this being determined to be the position, Mr. BENNETI: I ask the Minister for an order-the one to which the bon. mem­ Transport whether he is aware that the ber has referred-was gazetted in an effort Camden-Campbelltown railway service will to seek ·to restore 'the intention of the Legis­ terminate in January, 1963. If so, will he lature when it introduced section 5A. inform the House whether arrangements Mr. COX: As a supplementary question, have been made for the employment of the I ask the Minister whether regulation 75, firemen, permanent-way workers, guards which was issued by the Government after and others employed on this stretch of line? Mr. Justice Jacobs's decision, has not in fa.ct restored the situation to what it was Mr. McMAHON: It is true that notifica­ prior to Mr. Justice Jacobs's decision. Are tion has been given of the closing of the railway service from Campbelltown to Cam­ the circumstances now such that a very substantial number of residental flats that den. The staff are still employees of the were created by building alterations effected Department of Railways and, though I have before the introduction of the Local Gov­ not been given any information about where ernment (Regulation of Flats) Act 1955, they are likely to be appointed, I assume are not now eligible for decontrol, though that these matters have been taken into prior to Mr. Justice Jacobs's decision they consideration by the Commissioner for were deemed to be, and thousands of leases Railways. The closing of the line does not were registered? If these are facts, will the mean that these men are to be retrenched, Minister say what the Government pro­ or anything like that. They will be absorbed poses to do to establish the regularity of in the department. the leases that have been lodged with the Rent Controller and registered under sec­ LANDLORD AND TENANT ACT tion 5A, although it now appears that they are not eligible to be so registered? Mr. MADDISON: I ask the Minister of Justice whether, as a result of a recent de­ Mr. MANNIX: If they are, I will. cision by Mr. Justice Jacobs, and the sub­ sequent promulgation of a regulation in Government Gazette No. 75, the provisions REDEVELOPMENT OF THE ROCKS of section 5A of the Landlord and Tenant AREA Act, relating to decontrol, do not apply Mr. SLOSS: I ask the Minister for to self-contained residential flats created by Local Government and Minister for High­ building alterations effected before the ways whether this Government's scheme introduction of the Local Government for the redevelopment of The Rocks area, (Regulation of Flats) Act, 1955? Does within the electorate of King, has reached this mean that owners of a very large num­ the stage of completion. Is it a fact that ber of flats thought to be decontrolled are the Minister has twice conferred with me still subject to all the hardships of this about the rehousing of residents in this Government's landlord and tenant legisla­ area? If these are facts, will the Minister tion? If these are facts, will the Minister give further consideration to convening a !>tate what action the Government proposes conference with the Minister for Housing, to take to correct this situation and to pre­ with a view to the resumption of any vent these anomalous circumstances from Government-owned property within the creating injustice, hardship and chaos? residential section of the new area so that it may be used to house the people dis­ MANNIX: The judgment delivered Mr. placed by this necessary and progressive by Mr. Justice Jacobs interpreted section scheme? 5A of the Landlord and Tenant Act. The judge, being obliged to interpret the Act in Mr. HILLS: It is a fact that the Gov­ accordance with the meaning of the words ernment is considering proposals for used therein, reached the conclusion that redevelopment of the The Rocks area. The residential accommodation referred to flats committee that was appointed by the Local Government Department [5 SEPT., 1962] Address in Reply 111 Government bas now made to me its recom­ BURSARY ENDOWMENT BOARD mendations, which are receiving considera­ Report for year ended 30th June, 1961, tion. Before any determination is made by tabled and, on motion by Mr. Wetherell, me, this issue will be resolved on a Cabinet ordered to be printed. level. In referring to the aspect raised by . the bon. member, one of the conditions was DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION that the successful tenderer, the company, was to be responsible for housing affected Report for 1961 tabled and, on motion tenants. As bon. members are aware, about by Mr. Wetherell, ordered to be printed. 75 per cent of the land in the area is owned by the Crown and is under the control of RIVER MURRAY COMMISSION my colleague, the Treasurer, through the Report for year ended 30th June, 1961, Maritime Services Board. Quite obviously he tabled and, on motion by Mr. P. N. Ryan, has the direction and decision in this matter. ordered to be printed. As bon. members also are aware, my col­ league, the Minister for Housing, has inti­ RURAL RECONSTRUCTION BOARD mated his interest in assisting to rehouse Report for year ended 30th June, 1961, these people. We have had some prelim­ tabled and, on motion by Mr. Compton, inary discussions, and I have intimated that ordered to be printed. I will confer with him before any decision is made about rehousing these residents. PERSONAL EXPLANATION As I have said, this matter is to be dealt DESTRUCfiON OF FOXES with on Cabinet level and the Ministers concerned will have a direct say in the Mr. HuGHES: I wish to make a per­ issues involved. sonal explanation. Last night on the adjournment of the House I referred to a letter that I had received from the Minister for Agriculture. On reading Hansard I find LOCAL GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENT that I made the statement that three points Report for year ended 30th June, 1962, were mis-statements and untrue. It was tabled and, on motion by Mr. Hills, not my intention to be so ;forceful ; I ordered to be printed. meant that those statements were incorrect.

NEW SOUTH WALES .AMBULANCE GOVERNOR'S SPEECH: ADDRESS IN TRANSPORT SERVICE BOARD REPLY Report for year ended 30th June, 1961, SECOND DAY'S DEBATE tabled and, on motion by Mr. Sheahan, Debate resumed (from 4th September, ordered to be printed. vide page 83), on motion by Mr. Bowen: That the following Address in Reply to the HUNTER VALLEY CONSERVATION Speech which His Excellency the Governor TRUST has addressed to both Houses of Parliament on opening this Session of the Parliament of Report and statement of accounts for New South Wales be now adopted by this 1961 tabled and, on motion by Mr. House:- Enticknap, ordered to be printed. To His Excellency Sir ERIC WINSLOW WOOD­ WARD, Knight Commander of the Most UNIVERSITY OF SYDNEY Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George, Companion of the Most Financial statements for 1961 tabled and, Honourable Order of the Bath, Com­ on motion by Mr. Wetherell, ordered to mander of the Most Excellen-t Order of be printed. the British Empire, Companion of the Distinguished Service Order, Knight of the Venerable Order of St. John of UNIVERSITY OF NEW ENGLAND Jerusalem, Lieutenan·t-Gen'eral on the Report and financial statements of Retired List of the Australian Military Forces, Governor of the State of New Council for 1961 tabled and, on motion South Wales and its Dependencies, in the by Mr. Wetherell, ordered to be printed. Commonwealth of Australia. 112 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply

MAY IT PLEASE YOUR EXCELLENCY,- land in the outer fringes of the city, within We, Her Majesty's loyal and dutiful subjects, a radius of about 25 miles from Sydney, the Members of the Legislative Assembly of is taken up by new Australians. New South Wales, in Parliament assembled, desire to express our thanks for Your Excel­ We in Parliament in both the State and lency's Speech, and to assure you of our Commonwealth spheres do not do enough unfeigned attachment to Her Most Gracious for new Australians. We do not appre­ Majesty's Throne and Person. ciate bow important they are for the future 2. We beg to assure Your Excellency that our earnest consideration will be given to the of this country. Many people have the measures to be submitted to us, and that the impression that the new Australian is some necessary provision for the Public Services will kind of second-class citizen who has been be made in due course. sent here merely to make up the numbers. 3. We join Your Excellency in the hope That is not so. People in positions such that, under the guidance of Divine Providence, as ours should go to great lengths to make our labours may be so directed as to advance the best interests of all sections of the com­ it quite clear that native Australians, and munity. new Australians who come to this country, are in a partnership. Australia cannot hope Upon which Mr. Askin had moved: to maintain a healthy immigration pro­ That the Address be amended by the addi­ gramme in the future unless conditions in tion of the following words to stand as para­ graph 4:- this country can be made attractive to per­ sons overseas who might be likely to come We regret that Your Excellency's advisers have not seen fit, following receipt of the here. Royal Commission's report nearly a year ago, We must organise an effective partner­ to give a definite assurance that during the ensuing Session the Government will com­ ship between ourselves and new Austra­ pletely overhaul the Landlord and Tenant lians. I am always very proud to attend legislation so as to eliminate the numerous naturalisation ceremonies in my electorate anomalies and harsh injustices contained in and meet our new citizens. I tell them that that legislation. we expect them to become assimilated into Mr. SOUTHEE (Biacktown) [3.37]: At our social groups and that they should the outset I should like to thank the join political parties of whatever views electors of Blacktown for electing me appeal to them. I impress only one thing to this House. I appreciate the respon­ on them and that is that we have a demo­ sibility that I as a member of Par­ cratic system in this country, and I am sure liament have to my constituents and to the they appreciate that fact and value that best of my ability I shall discharge my state of affairs. It is of no use to bring duties diligently. I sincerely compliment people to this country unless they are the mover and seconder of the motion for assimilated into our life, and we ourselves the adoption of the Address in Reply. It can play a big part in bringing about that augurs well for the Government that young assimilation. men of the calibre of the bon. member for The general development in my electorate Randwick are being elected to this bas been greatly assisted by the housing Chamber. The Government need have no projects that have been carried out there. fears for the future while young men of I believe that there are more Housing Com­ his quality are joining its ranks. mission dwellings in my electorate than in My electorate of Blacktown is changing that of any other bon. member. No doubt from a rural area to a vast residential dis­ hon. members think that I am making trict. Numerically, it is the biggest elec­ many claims for my electorate but, fortu­ torate in the State but that is taking only nately for me, all those claims are true. those on the electoral roll. My electorate At present there are 4,938 Housing Com­ would contain perhaps more people not on mission homes in my electorate, one of the the roll than any other electorate. Those people are the new Australians living in most remarkable figures for any area the district. Most new Australians com­ throughout the nation. Despite what the ing here have not at any time been able Opposition may say about housing I am in to own land. That is why most of the a position to know what goes on in the Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962] Address in Reply 113 housing field in other States, and I have State. I am pleased that that has been carefully studied their housing programmes. done, as It Is important that our develop­ Therefore, I can say with confidence that ment should be maintained. However, it our housing scheme is miles ahead of that must be remembered that the Department of any other State of the Commonwealth. of Public Health must find many problems Moreover, the type of home that the Gov­ in a fast-developing district such as mine. ernment builds is something of which we For example, because of the large number all can be proud. of children there it has been found neces­ The people who go to areas where the sary to provide five baby health centres. Housing Commission builds homes are Last Saturday I deputised for the Minister quickly assimilated into the local life. That for Health in opening at Rooty Hill one of i:; a very good thing. We have heard of the most up-to-date baby health centres in slum clearance, but I wish to go on record the State. A feature of that building is its by saying that despite the fact that people air conditioning which is necessary in the have come to my electorate from all parts western metropolitan area where we have of the metropolitan area, the incidence of extremes of heat and cold during the year. crime there is very low. I believe that we The development of secondary industry must get people 'from slum areas 1nto is necessary in fast-growing electorates like decent homes in a decent environment. mine, and I believe that that position will There is no question then of their ability naturally adjust itself. Vast tracts of land to become decent citizens. have been reserved for industry, and indus­ Many problems are posed in an elect­ trial concerns are already moving into .the orate such as mine where there has been area. We can overcome many transport such a great expansion in housing. For problems if industries can be established example, educational facilities also must be adjacent to the large centres of population. expanded. Hon. members know that in In my electorate almost all the blue-metal order to qualify for a Housing Commission quarries serving this vast city are estab­ home people must be married and have a lished. They already employ many men, family, and in many cases the families are and other industries opening up will em­ quite large. I wish to place on record that ploy more. However, as my electorate is the Minister for Education has done a one of working people, we require still remarkable job in my electorate. There are more industry. If we get them bon. mem­ more children going to State schools in bers may be assured that there will be a the area I represent than in any other competent working force to operate them. electorate. This week there are 16,000 I pay tribute to the Government for set­ children going to State schools in my area. ting up, after the last general election, a They attend thirty different schools, five Department of Industrial Development and of which are high schools-two not yet Decentralisation. Because of my industrial completed. Within a distance of half a background I know something about de­ mile there are three primary schools, each centralisation. Before I entered this House one with over 1,000 pupils. That is the I travelled extensively over the State and I sort of development that the Government have seen the tragedy of towns going back­ can well be proud of. However, with de­ wards industrially. There are also other in­ velopment of that sort come other prob­ dustrial tragedies that should be considered lems. I shall detail the bright side of things by the decentralisation authorities. Pre­ first, but there are other aspects of in­ viously I had much •to do with cement tensive development that we shall have to towns where, although there was plenty of do something about. work for men, there was none for women We are fortunate in my electorate that and girls. We believe that family life is we have secured a new hospital, and I pay one of the most important elements in our civilisation, and in the towns I am speaking tribute to the Minister for Health for the about-and I shall not mention them by fact that this new hospital, which has just name-we must get the co-operation of been started, will be one of the best in the private enterprise with the Department of 8 114 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply

Industrial Development and Decentralisa­ given rather good treatment to the Munici­ tion in an attempt to provide work for pality of Blacktown-I hope that he will women and girls. do even better in the future. At the same time, tremendous development is taking Hon. members opposite have made many references to other States, but despite their place not only in my own electorate but also in many other areas around the city. comments New South Wales is a State to We are decentralising the city, for not be proud of. Its citizens have always made only are the people moving out to live but the best use of its rich natural resources. industries are also being established. There­ However, it has become a great State not fore, in the interests of one form of decen­ from its natural resources, great buildings tralisation, they should be given assistance. or great population, but from the things that make States great-good social and Loan moneys must be made available industrial laws. Indeed, the Commonwealth for sewerage in these developing areas, and other States have always looked to e~pecially those that are becoming closely New South Wales for a lead in social and settled. The Blacktown electorate has industrial legislation. Recent Labor gov­ rather a peculiar arrangement for its sewer­ ernments have effected so many improve­ age scheme, which will be in two parts. ments in this regard during their twenty The levels in the locality demand that part years of office that the people of the State of the sewerage will go to a special treat­ showed their appreciation at the last elec­ ment works, and the other half will go to tion by returning Labor with an increased what is known as the northern outflow, majority. which is under the control of the Metro­ Though I realise that an bon. member politan Water Sewerage and Drainage is not interrupted during his maiden speech, Board. The Blacktown sewerage works I might appreciate some interjections. I will be the responsibility of the Blacktown am used to the burly-burly of making Municipal Council in co-operation, I under­ speeches under fire, with the opportunity stand, with the Department of Public to carry on from there. Works. This work will proceed when the Treasurer is good enough to give us the Commonwealth-State relations could well money. I make a special appeal for action be examined in areas where there are con­ in this regard because so many people­ centrations of migrants. The Common­ including so many young people-live in wealth Government brings migrants to this the area. For them the best treatment is country, but when they are distributed the only treatment they must get. throughout the Commonwealth, the States become responsible for providing them Though I mentioned earlier that the with housing, employment, hospitals and citizens of the Blacktown electorate are education. Some areas have a concentra­ law-abiding, I do not want the Premier to tion of migrants and, therefore, are entitled take that as implying that we do not want to special grants from the Commonwealth a new police station or a court house. I Government to cover the services that must have had much experience with people­ be provided for them. young people in particular-and I know that a police station in an area always Local government plays a most import­ assures the citizens that a member of the ant role in the community, but developing police force is not far away. Blacktown areas are at a tremendous disadvantage has no full-time police station, and crimes compared with the older areas close to the must be reported to Parramatta. I do not city, where only maintenance is required. know that I agree with the new mobile In the developing areas on the fringe of policy of the Police Department. I might the metropolis working people are trying to be old-fashioned, but I like to see a police establish their homes, and the roads, foot­ station in the area, manned twenty-four paths, kerbs and gutters provided by local hours a day to handle all types of matters, government must be financed from rates including reports ranging from serious and insufficient loan moneys. I admit that crime to drunkenness. The population of the Minister for Local Government has the Blacktown area justifies the provision Mr. Southee] Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962] Address in Reply 115 of a court house. I found out from the of course, that this Government, which in local police sergeant that very few police the past has been notorious for its failure are stationed in the area, and that on the to produce silent trams, may achieve in day following our conversation five of them his electorate the super-distinction of being would be attending the court at Parra­ able to boast about non-existent trains. matta to give evidence. That would mean bringing in other police on their days off. Mr. RENSHAW: The trams are all silent Police must be provided in these developing now. areas not only to catch criminals but also Mr. JACK BEALE: Mr. McGirr did not to protect the law-abiding people. Black­ produce them when be said be would. Un­ town has many law-abiding people and very doubtedly the Government bas now elimin­ few of criminal type. My appeal is for the ated them altogether. The bon. member for protection of the good, honest people in my Nepean also sought the assistance of the electorate. The Department of Motor Chief Secretary, in his capacity as Minister Transport has promised a full-time motor for Tourist Activities, in the development of registry in the Blacktown electorate. That the township that. is adjacent to what he will be most valuable to all the citizens called one of the greatest bodies of water there. in the world-Warragamba Dam. I think I could raise many other things that he asked for a report on that. I hope for affect my electorate, but I shall raise them his sake, and for the sake of his consti­ with the various Ministers at the appro­ tuents, that the report on that township is priate time. Since the Blacktown electorate not ultimately filed with that bon. gentle­ was instituted in about 1941, it has grown man's report on his trips to New Zealand so much that at each succeeding election and other oversea countries, for which the a slice of it is cut off. As a result it is House is still waiting. Anyway, the bon. now more compact and easy to handle. member for Nepean wants to watch out Last year Blacktown progressed from being for Chapman's Ghost. a shire to being a municipality ; in a few The bon. member for Blacktown was years it will be a city. The services must rather slow in leaving the barrier last night, keep pace with this development, and the but be has made a vigorous contribution to Government's aim should be to provide for the debate today. One thing that in­ a city. terested me was that he wants improve­ Mr. JACK BEALE (South Coast) [4.0]: ments in his electorate that bear a marked Mr. Deputy Speaker, first I should like to similarity to the improvements sought by offer my congratulations to the three new the former member for Blacktown. It members who have made their maiden would seem that the Government bas not speeches. I hope they find satisfaction in given enough aid to the district. The bon. their service in this House, but, as the member said that undoubtedly be owed Leader of the Opposition said last night, his electoral success to housing develop­ I can promise them that they will have a ment in the electorate. It is interesting to much livelier time in future debates. The note that the wonderful work performed most novel contribution to the debate was by the previous member, Mr. Dennis, in made by the new member for Nepean, the field of housing as mentioned by the who seemed to want to invoke supernatural present bon. member for Blacktown­ aid. He will need it to get anywhere with not to mention hospital development­ this Government. He spoke of Fisher's was probably a major factor in his elimina­ Ghost. Perhaps !he thinks that Fisher's tion from tbis Parliament. I listened Ghost will help him in his efforts to get attentively to the bon. member's comments the railway in his electorate electrified. He about sewerage in the Blacktown electora'te. seemed to have a premonition in suggest­ The last report of the Metropolitan Water ing that if he stayed here as long as Sewerage and Drainage Board I have read Fisher's Ghost is alleged to have remained discloses that in the Blacktown area 20,382 in his electorate, he would still want to get residences have a water service, but only this line electrified. It may well happen, 341 have a sewerage service. If those 116 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply figures are correct, it is clear that sewerage any of the problems of this State, and is urgently needed in the district. The he effectively silenced members on the hon. member for Georges River, who is an Government side. This discourtesy to the expert in these matters, interjects that the Leader of the Opposition is typical of the figures are correct. If so, they show that behaviour of the Deputy Premier since he the area is lacking in a service which is has been in charge of the affairs of this urgently needed to meet the requirements House. He deserves to be taken to task of public health and hygiene. for this attitude in insisting that the Leader The new hon. member for Randwick of the Opposition go straight ahead with seemed to be bewitched by the Govern­ his speech. ment's black magic-this latest dazzling Mr. RENSHAW: That is not so. fantasia contained in the Governor's speech. I suppose he can be excused be­ Mr. JACK BEALE: What is the reason? cause of his newness in this House and in The Government is trying to hoodwink the politics. However, I hope in my speech people into believing that it is on the job, to enlighten him on some of the facts of and that it is "business as usual". political life in New South Wales. Mr. RENSHAW: You do not know what This House is meeting rather late in you are talking about. the year and, as the Leader of the Oppo­ sition said yesterday, this is undoubtedly Mr. JACK BEALE: I do. You can due to dissension within the ranks of make a speech later on and see whether Labor-in the party, in this House and you can answer some of these things. You outside it-and disputes between the have enough to answer for in the financial organisation and Cabinet. The Govern­ affairs of this State-a lot to answer for. ment did not want to meet the House Mr. RENSHAW: I will answer for them. earlier by reason of hot potatoes such as the opera house, .transport, education, Mr. JACK BEALE: I hope you do so. health and dozens of others. This Gov­ Mr. Deputy Speaker, in this speech I pro­ ernment has always preferred to govern pound ten grounds for rejection of the by regulation and by propaganda. Address in Reply, and also I propose a fur.ther amendment. I believe the address Mr. RENSHAW: When we do meet you should be rejected by the State Parliament are never here! What is the difference? on ten main grounds: First, His Excel­ Mr. JACK BEALE: I am here more lency's speech does grave disservice to the often than the Deputy Premier. constitutional monarchy by putting the State Governor in the position of having Mr. RENSHAW: I want to extend a wel­ to voice poli-tical propaganda in the ad­ come to you, today. dress. Second, it is a series of disjointed Mr. JACK BEALE: The Deputy outbursts of boastfulness and abuse, lack­ Premier is so often overseas and absent ing any central theme or any realisation from this State that we miss him dread­ of the great economic and sociological fully. It is nice to see him on the job problems confronting the State of New for a change and I welcome him. It has South Wales. Third, like Pilate, the been traditional to extend to the Leader Government "washes its hands" of all of the Opposition the courtesy of a day's major responsibilities ; yet, like Pilate, grace before calling upon him .to make a it cannot avoid their consequences. contribution to the Address-in-Reply de­ Fourth, it makes no mention of the bate, and it was most discourteous of the greatest single issue confronting Aus­ Government yesterday to insist upon his tralia-Great Britain's proposed entry into proceeding with his speech. Undoubtedly the European Common Market-and fails the supporters of the Government thought .to recognise its own serious responsibilities that he would be embarrassed. Far from towards all those industries which could be being embarrassed, he showed that he was significantly affected by the common prepared at the drop of a hat to discuss market. Fifth, its reference to the primary Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962] Address in Reply 117 industries is superficial and fragmentary, Having made those ten points, I fore­ despite the fact that ·these industries are shadow the following amendment to the confronting tremendous challenges in terms Address in Reply: of future markets and despite the further We regret that His Excellency's advisers fact that most of the ingredients of pro­ have failed to reveal the scandalous waste of duction costs-freight rates, electric power, public moneys by the State Government caused by its mismanagement, gross inefficiency and water, etc., are State matters. Sixth, failure to use proper business methods-such the Speech denies the responsibility of as an effective contract system for public the State Government for tht!' creation works-waste of such dimensions, as demon­ of employment opportunities ; yet the strated by the opera house fiasco, as to rob the people of this State of the money which could seeking of new industries and the otherwise provide urgently needed schools, hos­ growth and development of commerce pitals, houses, and other vital undertakings and and industry in this State are its jeopardises the operation of essential services. prime charge. Seventh, it brings for­ Dealing with my first point, that His Excel­ ward no overall plan Qf State develop­ lency's speech does a grave disservice to ment, no priorities for public works and constitutional monarchy, let me say that no incentive programme for industrial ex­ this Government has become notorious pansion. Its vague reference to oversea for making the State Governor the companies, in terms of their establishment spokesman for purely political propa­ in New South Wales, is all humbug ganda. That is all the Government is and is an abject confession of failure. doing. If hon. members read it from Eighth, its casual reference to all cover to cover .they find that it has fields of education is one of smug self­ been used for the Government's own politi­ satisfaction and total failure to recognise cal purposes. Apart from that, it is a series the serious difficulties confronting the of pious platitudes and word spinning. The educa.tion system in all its strata: primary, kudos is given to the Heffron State Gov­ secondary and tertiary, public and private. ernment for anything that is good, even if Ninth, the Government, in His Excellency's it is heaven-sent. The federal Government speech, claims personal credit for increas­ is blamed for anything that is bad. This is ing home building last year, deliberately the technique that has been used for years concealing the fact that this was due to the and years by this Government. It never special proviSion of £2,400,000 made acknowledges in any way the help that it available by the Commonwealth Govern­ receives from the Commonwealth Govern­ ment in February, 1962. It fails to state ment. Time and time again the Governor's that the recent census has revealed that speech fails to mention what the Common­ New South Wales has had the slowest home­ wealth Government has done. This year's building rate of all mainland States in the speech mentioned record housing, but the years 1954-1961, a rate paralleled by the Government fails to acknowledge that last only other Labor-governed State, Tasmania. year an extra £2,400,000 at least was pushed My tenth point is that His Excellency's into housing in this State by the Common­ speech is painfully silent on all political wealth Government to give it a boost. hot potatoes, notably the disastrous waste The Government claims to be building of public money on the opera house project coal-handling equipment, but it says nothing -money which could have built extra about the contribution of grant money and schools and hospitals-the future of the loan money by the Commonwealth Govern­ northern toll road and other major traffic ment to help those projects forward. There distributors, the threat of increased fares, is no inkling in the Governor's speech that freights and taxes, the suppression of the last year this Government received huge aborigine as a second-class citizen, the crisis funds from the Commonwealth. It re­ in local-government finance, the failure to ceived £99,200,000 in taxation reimburse­ decentralise, except by proposed propa­ ment, and from all sources from Common­ ganda junkets of State Cabinet, and many wealth grant moneys it received other matters. £134,800,000. This year the total will be 118 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY) Addrers in Reply increased to something like £142,300,000, with sufficient economy to build an opera but there is no recognition of that in the h~u~e and, in addition, to provide many Governor's speech to Parliament. m1lhons of pounds more for vital public works. The same attitude is adopted faithfully by the Government supporters who have The Government's attitude was demon­ spoken in this debate. They have all been strated by the Premier's brazen statement new members ; the Government has not yesterday that the opera bouse "has not put up a Minister to speak, apparently be­ cost the State one solitary penny". He cause it believes that the speech of the means, presumably, that because the opera Governor is quite satisfactory. All the new house is being financed from special lot­ members from the Government side say teries, the money is not coming out of the that the Labor Party has been responsible State Treasury and, therefore, can be for all good legislation and that this Gov­ thrown to the winds. This is monumental ernment has an unsurpassed record of effrontery to the people of this State who achievement. They ignore the undemocratic are footing the bill for this work. What­ gag-the-press bill, the compulsory union­ ever the source of the money, it comes ism legislation, the landlord and tenant from the pockets of the people of this State, legislation, the housing situation, and the and the funds must be carefully husbanded opera house, and make no reference and strictly accounted for. Is it any dif­ to the tragedy of soldier settlement or the ferent from, for example, the £4,900,000 local-government crisis. After the new raised by the general lotteries last year, members finished praising Ministers and the originally established for the purpose of Government for what has happened, they hospitals but now, along with the had to refer to long lists of works needed £2,700,000 from betting taxes, paid into in their electorates and throughout the general revenue. Is there any reason why State-a recital that debunks their eulogy that should be treated any differently from of the record of a government that has the money raised by the special lotteries? been in office for twenty-one years. The opera bouse poses a large number of still unanswered questions for the The Sydney Opera House, the dream of Premier and the Deputy Premier and an architect who entered a competition, may Treasurer to answer. I want to know where be of unique design but it is not unique the bridging finance will come from. The as an example of wasteful expenditure by Director of State Lotteries said that the Government of New South Wales. It £5,500,000 had been raised until recently is typical of waste by this Government. by the opera house lotteries and that they This matter was debated to some extent were bringing in an income of about in the House yesterday, but there are still £2,000,000 a year. The Premier has said quite a few questions that have to be that the opera house will be finished in answered. It must be pointed out quite 1965, three years from now. If the lot­ clearly to the people of this State that until teries bring in £2,000,000 a year, that will now the State Government has rested on be another £6,000,000 to be added to the the cynical belief that because the opera £5,500,000 already raised, making a total house is a symbol of culture-and we all of £11,500,000, which is still short of the know it is-it would become a sacred cow £12,500,000 mentioned by the Premier as and be immune from public criticism. Any­ the finishing costs of certain parts of the one who dared to criticise it could be project-not the whole project, mind you! acccused of lacking culture-and that is If the cost amounts to £15,000,000, as happening to some extent. This is typical most people believe, where will the bridg­ of t~e State Government's propaganda ing finance come from? macbme, but this time the enormity of the blundering is too big to remain hidden. Suppose the construction goes for another The question I put to the House is not year, to 1966. Another £2,000,000 will have whether there should be an opera house­ to be found. The Government will still there is no question about that at all­ have to bridge a gap of some millions of but whether public moneys can be used pounds. Where will it come from? Will Mr. Jack Beale] Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962] Address in Reply ll9

the people of the State be left short, in Let us look at the next problem of em­ a particular year, of homes, hospitals, ployment. Hon. members will recall that schools, bridges, water supplies and sewer­ last year after the Premiers' Conference we age services? That is a question that the were told that, including loan money and Government has to answer, and the public £135,000,000 from federal grants this State wants it to be frank about it. How will would have available to it from all sources the remaining works, including provision the huge sum of £337,000,000. In this of parking areas, be financed, since the House the Opposition argued that this current lottery income is insufficient to money should be put to work immediately meet the annual demand? How much will in a crash programme to reduce unemploy­ the opera house cost to maintain after its ment, but the crash programme did not completion? Some say £500,000, some say move very quickly. I remember on this oc­ £1,000,000 a year. There is not a country casion last year crossing swords with the in the world where opera stands on its Deputy Premier and Treasurer over my sug­ own feet. It is subsidised in every country. gestion that he should budget for a deficit. Where is that to come from? Are we to He was clearly most reluctant .to do so, but have opera-house lotteries for evermore? finally he did budget for a deficit of While they continue money is not avail­ £1,800,000. able for ordinary lotteries. Government Mr. RENSHAW: That is not so. supporters should not kid themselves into believing that people buy opera-house Mr. JACK BEALE: I have the Hansard lottery tickets just ·to put money into the report here. I do not expect the Deputy cpera house. In the past few days when Premier and Treasurer to remember what I have been down by the lottery office I happened a year ago, but he can look into have asked people who were buying tickets the reports of the debates on that occasion. whether they were doing so as a means of Mr. RENSHAW: I should like the hon. investing their money in the opera house, member to prove his assertion. and they have all said that they were buy­ Mr. JACK BEALE: I have only limited ing the opera-house lottery tickets because time. of the big prize. That money could have been raised for any other purpose, and Mr. RENSHAW: I would still like you to it is hollow and false to say that you are do it. not robbing State finances when lottery Mr. JACK BEALE: I have limited time. revenue is being used for the opera house. I made the assertion and I stand by it. What form will the management of the Mr. RENSHAW: You said you have it opera house take? What will happen to there. You said you were going to quote those city halls, including the Sydney Town it Hall, that an! now used for concerts and Mr. JACK BEALE: Let the Deputy opera? Will they require public subsidy? Premier and Treasurer ask his officers to bring a copy of Hansard to him now. It I believe tha:t in 1965 or 1966 the appro­ is pamphlet 4, da-ted 23rd August, 1961. priate opening performance in the opera He has officers to do this. house should be "Fantasia", the story of a Mr. RENSHAW: You said you would government that moves in a dream world quote it. of socialism, unconscious of the hard Mr. JACK BEALE: I have given the realities of the real world, and with a lord­ reference and the Minister ha·s a huge-and like attitude of disdain to all things and all good-propaganda staff. He can look this people. I say that the Premier, the Trea­ item up himself. surer and the Government have a lot of Mr. RENSHAW: Tell us the truth. questions to answer because throughout the Mr. JACK BEALE: I am doing so, and State the public is shocked and concerned I am sticking to the truth. The Deputy about what it believes to be a major Premier would do well to stick to it at scandal. times also. Last year he ultimately budgeted 120 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply for a· deficit of £1,800,000. Obviously he I notice in His Excellency's speech that did not have much faith in the future of this Ministers are most concerned about unem­ country. In actual fact, the deficit rose to ployment. What an understatement from something like £3,000,000. On this occa­ what should be a responsible government. sion I again advocate that he budget for a Apparently it is running dead on what is a man-sized deficit. This is the time to do it, great social issue. We have had difficulties if we have faith in this country. The in this country because the federal Gov­ federal Government budgeted for a deficit ernment acted to combat a boom and to of £118,000,000 because it had the cour­ stop a bust. We all know that action had age to do so and had faith in the future of to be taken. I did not agree with all the Australia. If the State Treasurer has the things that were done, nor did the Deputy courage and the faith he should adopt the Premier and Treasurer. Everybody has his same policy, otherwise, his only other own ideas as to which section of the com­ course is to increase taxation. This year munity should have been hurt, if I might the Government will have far more money use that expression, so that this boom might available to it from Commonwealth sources. be combated. The federal Government The Deputy Premier and Treasurer said acted with great courage because an elec­ yesterday in this House that he would have tion was imminent. It acted responsibly only an extra £4,000,000 available this year. and today the country is better off because of its actions. The Government, through Mr. RENSHAW: From revenue, I said. His Excellency's speech, says that the res­ Mr. JACK BEALE: That is the way ponsibility for all these economic matters these things are done repeatedly, publicly rests largely with the Commonwealth Gov­ and in this House, by the Treasurer, the ernment. Here is the same old cry passing Premier, and other members of the Gov­ the buck to the Commonwealth Govern­ ernment. The Treasurer said that the State ment. This shows a sheer lack of ability would have only £4,000,000 more this year. on the part of the State Government, or it This is misleading to the public. From indicates political mischief and suggests that taxation reimbursements this year the State the Government is running dead on this will get an additional £4,500,000. That is issue-unemployment-and I use that the amount to which the Treasurer was re­ phrase in its sporting sense. ferring. But ·the State gets grants for many other purposes. Let hon. members look Mr. RENSHAW: You said a moment ago into the Commonwealth payments book. that the Commonwealth was responsible.

Mr. RENSHAW: In the budget? Mr. JACK BEALE: The Commonwealth had to act to avoid the bust. I am saying Mr. JACK BEALE: I am not talking that unemployment is very much the res­ about the sum of £6,800,000 that is ponsibility of the State Government. New included in the federal budget. I am South Wales has 35,000 registered unem­ speaking now about grants of a revenue ployed-the highest of any State in the nature for specific purposes and grants of Commonwealth and, on a percentage basis, a capital nature for more coal-handling the highest in any State except Queensland, equipment and things of that nature. This which has seasonal work difficulties. year the State will receive £142,300,000 as against £134,800,000, a difference of Mr. RENSHAW: But the Commonwealth's £7,500,000. Of course,

down. This local industry has problems being said by Government members, that to overcome. I hope that the Minister for the Commonwealth Government has all the Industrial Development and Decentralisa­ money. tion will visit the area shortly and help solve those problems. How does one keep Mr. RoBSON: That is true. these factories alive? In particular, how Mr. JACK BEALE: Well, Jet us look at would he keep this one alive? the financing of local government which,. Mr. RoBSON: Why does not the hon. as a result of what is called a gentleman's member take it up with the Minister? agreement between the State Government and the Loan Council, has its loan moneys Mr. JACK BEALE: .It has been taken controlled by the council. A limit has been up with the Government. set on local-government borrowings. Over the years the small councils, those that raise Mr. RENSHAW: But the hon. member loans of less than £100,000, have had their did not move on the matter. borrowing activities strictly curtailed. How­ Mr. JACK BEALE: I have taken it up ever, in February this year, the Prime Min­ with the Government. In fact, I took it ister moved, and the other members of the up with the Minister. Loan Council agreed to his proposal, that instead of these bodies having their loans Mr. RENSHAW: Not with me. restricted to small sums such as £10,000 or Mr. JACK BEALE: I ask the Minister £20,000, they be permitted to borrow, be­ to look through his files. I realise that he tween February and 30th June this year,. has many files, and am aware that many up to £100,000. This is the first occasion people are on his back about various mat­ in modern times when such a borrowing ters throughout the State. What is the limit has been permitted, and it has helped Government doing about the unemploy­ the smaller councils immensely. ment problem? When Mr. Albert Monk Mr. CRoss: Was that approval granted was overseas he made a statement that the for a short period? unemployment level in Australia is about 2 per cent or 2t per cent of the work force. Mr. JACK BEALE: For the short period He is reported to have said that those in I mentioned. Councils that were limited authority overseas laughed at him, for in to borrowing a total of £6,800,000 have other countries the unemployment ratio is been able to borrow another £5,700,000, much higher. However, that is not good making their total Joan raisings for the enough for my party, which, in both State and federal spheres, favours full employ­ financial year £12,500,000. As a result of ment. We are fighting for it, and the Gov­ this action by the Commonwealth Govern­ ernment's policy should be the same as ours ment-the federal Government is the key on this issue. I do not think the Govern­ to it all-the smaller councils have benefited ment is doing enough about it. It is simply by the injection of £5,700,000 more money passing the buck all of the time to the into local works, such as water and sewer­ federal Government. age projects. Mr. RoBSON: The right place, too. Mr. RENSHAW: What does the bon. Mr. JACK BEALE: Let us look, also, member mean by saying that the federal at the record of the Minister for Local Government is the key to it all? Government and Minister for Highways, for he, too, has a responsibility on unem­ Mr. JACK BEALE: Did the State Gov­ ployment. One of the new members said ernment do anything? in his maiden speech that the unemployment Mr. RENSHAW: If this Government had problem could be solved overnight if local exceeded the quota permitted by the Loan government had access to other avenues of Council, the general loan allocation would finance. He was simply saying, as is always have been reduced accordingly. Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962] Address in Reply 123

Mr. JACK BEALE: That was because Mr. RENSHAW: The Government has of the gentleman's agreement. It takes two asked the respective lending authorities to to enter into an agreement. help the councils. Mr. RENSHAW: It takes only one when Mr. JACK BEALE: What happened? that body controls the finance. The situa­ A year ago, as soon as approval was given tion may be likened to a bank manager's for the Shoalhaven Shire Council to borrow terms for an overdraft-the client accepts a larger sum of money, the two local mem­ the conditions if he wants the overdraft. bers, State and federal, went around this town, month in and month out, to banks, Mr. JACK BEALE: The Deputy Premier superannuation boards and other lending says that no help has been given by the authorities. Time and time again they Commonwealth Government. Here is one a·ttempted to raise money, but they could example of what it has done. It said in not obtain any help from the State Gov­ February this year, "All these small coun­ ernment. cils can get a move on with these works by raising as much money as they can borrow." Mr. RENSHAW: I know the bon. member These councils have had to struggle to went to the Rural Bank. raise the £5,700,000. They did so. It was helpful to them, and thus they boosted the Mr. JACK BEALE: Of course, I did. employment level. In this financial year Mr. RENSHAW: Evidently the lending there will again be no limit on the loan bodies have not told the bon. member that raising of the small councils. At least, they the Government went to them and sought will be able to raise as much as they can money for the councils. The bon. mem­ up to a limit of £100,000. ber should go back into his electorate to Mr. CRoss: That is for the current find out what is going on there. I know more about his electorate than he does. financial year? Mr. JACK BEALE: Yes. However, Mr. JACK BEALE: I know what is going where is the help from the State Govern­ on there, and the Treasurer might look ment? The councils have received approval into his own department's activities and find to borrow more money but no help has out what is going on there. been forthcoming from this Government. Mr. RENSHAW: The bon. member is If I go to the Treasurer and say, "My putting on a comic opera performance now. council wishes to borrow a certain sum of money, but it is finding it difficult to raise Mr. JACK BEALE: I challenge the Min­ the money", he replies, "I cannot help ister openly to tell the House what he has you." done for the Shoalhaven Shire Council, which has been told that this year it can Mr. RENSHAW: That is not so. borrow up to £600,000. I have gone with Mr. JACK BEALE: What do I do then? the federal member, the council represen­ Do I go to the Premier? tatives and a large group of industrialists who are dependent upon augmentation of Mr. RENSHAW: For the bon. member's the local water supply for their continued information, the Government has helped activities, to lending authorities all over many small councils by seeking out lend­ the place. After tramping about week in ing authorities and inducing them ·to lend and week out since March, in this financial money to those councils. Some local authori­ year we were able to raise loans of ties in the bon. member's electorate have sought help. However, in view of the bon. £375,000. Unfortunately, we shall have to member's attitude I do not think I shall go short unless the Government does some­ waste any more time helping him. thing. I therefore ask the Deputy Mr. JACK BEALE: Wha·t did the Trea­ Premier, Treasurer and Minister for Indus­ surer do to help ·the Shoalhaven Shire trial Development and Decentralisation Council? He did not help it to raise one whether he will help the Shoalhaven shire penny piece. raise the additional £225,000. 124 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply Mr. RENSHAW: I am willing to look at This year £80,800,000 will be underwritten the matter to see whether I can help, but by the Commonwealth so that it can be the way the bon. member is going about raised for State works. the matter he would be the last one that I Mr. RENSHAW: Underwritten by the would help. Whenever the Government helps the bon. member be goes about say­ people. ing that somebody else has assisted him and Mr. JACK BEALE: An additional gives the Government no credit. £31,000,000 is required, and it is essential that this sum should be raised in small Mr. JACK BEALE: The Government amounts. The State has the machinery to did not raise one penny for the Shoalhaven distribute the money if the Commonwealth shire last year, and this year that shire could extend the underwriting to cover bas again received no help. Nevertheless, small works for local and semi-government it has raised about £375,000 out of the bodies. At present local-government £600,000 required. At the end of last year bodies have to go round the financial in­ the Council of the Shire of Shoalhaven was stitutions-banks, superannuation ·boards still £35,000 short and a private concern, and other organisations-in an attempt to the Shoalbaven Paper Mills Proprietary get the money that they need. I criticise Limited, had to foot the bill. We informed the Government because it bas not recog­ the Minister for Industrial Development nised the problem and tried to deal with and Decentralisation that we still required it on a State-wide basis. £35,000 to complete by 30th June the main works programme, including the water Mr. RENSHAW: We have not only asked supply scheme that had the approval of the the Commonwealh to underwrite these Government, but a private concern had to moneys ; we have also asked that revenue­ foot the bill for the additional £35,000. producing works be allocated an interest rate of their own. Mr. RoBSON: Does not the Rt. Hon. R. G. Menzies hold the purse strings? Mr. JACK BEALE: The Commonwealth • is underwriting loan funds, so an attempt Mr. JACK BEALE: I have no doubt will be made to divert all expenditure to that the Deputy Premier is quite happy works for which these funds are allocated. about the present Commonwealth-State New South Wales is a sovereign State and financial relationship. He is able to blame it has a chance to mop up pockets of un­ the federal Government for all this State's employment within the State by helping financial shortcomings. Local government local-government bodies to raise the money may get about £12,500,000 for small works, but there is no doubt that it would that they need. ·get much more if the Goverment helped. Mr. RoBSON: If the State held the purse Perhaps we could get about £16,000,000 strings we could do that, but the Common­ to spend on essential works like water sup­ wealth has the money. ply and sewerage systems, and so on. Mr. JACK BEALE: This Government Mr. RENSHAW: The bon. member should bas the m~ans, through its administration approach the banks. of loan funds, to do what I ask. As far Mr. JACK BEALE: I should like the as Commonwealth-State relations go, this Deputy Premier to study the problem I Government has not acknowledged the have put before him to find ways and means federal Government's assistance in housing. of helping the smaller local-government There was an increase of £2,400,000 in bodies to get the money that they urgently the allocation for housing for the last finan­ need. I try to help councils, but the cial year. The State has the right to deter­ -Government should try to ensure that this mine how much of the loan funds under­ money is raised in a better fashion. It is written by the Commonwealth will be made a bad thing that the Commonwealth should available for housing and essential works, be only underwriting loans for State works. and last year of th~ £79,300,000 of loan Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962) Address in Reply 125 funds £17,000,000 was allocated to hous­ to the Minister for Housing taking part in ing. This year of the total of £80,800,000 this debate to answer some of the matters of Joan funds this Government-of its own that I have raised in my speech. I am volition-has allocated £15,000,000 to sure that he was not in favour of the re­ housing. I am glad that the Minister for duction in the allocation to the co-operative Housing is at present in the House to listen building societies, and we should like to to these points that I am making. hear what he has to say on the matter. New South Wales has the slowest home­ Mr. RENSHAW: Does the hon. member's building rate-on a percentage basis-of figures include the supplementary vote? any State in the Commonwealth. The last Mr. JACK BEALE: Yes. Although more Commonwealth census discloses that be­ loan money has been made available by the tween the years 1954 and 1961 this State Commonwealth this year, the amount allo­ built fewer houses, on a percentage basis, cated to housing by this Government has than any other State. I cannot give the been reduced by £2,000,000. figures in detail now, but I can supply them to the Minister. Though New South Wales Mr. LANDA: The Commonwealth reduced has a good building industry, which is the housing allocation. anxious to build homes, it has the slowest Mr. JACK BEALE: It certainly did not. rate of building development in the Com­ The Commonwealth made £80,800,000 monwealth. I should like the Minister to available to the State, and the State decided look at these facts. how much should be allocated to housing. Mr. LANDA: They are not facts. Mr. RENSHAW: All the States decided Mr. JACK BEALE: I invite the Minis­ the allocation. ter to examine the census figures of 1954 Mr. JACK BEALE: Yes, and the States and 1961. The hon. member for Randwick, reduced the allocation for housing. The after complaining about over-crowding in co-operative building societies receive 30 the schools and the attendant problems of per cent of the loan money allocated to teacher training, fell back on the time­ housing. Last year they received £5,100,000 worn cry, "The issue comes back to and the Housing Commission got money". Of course, the implication is that £11,900,000, making a total of £17,000,000 the federal Government has all the money for housing. This year the co-operative bags. Hon. members are aware that class­ building societies will get £4,500,000 and rooms throughout New South Wales are the Housing Commission £10,500,000, so crowded, and that many people are worried that this Government has reduced the funds about the shortage of qualified teachers. available to the co-operative building socie­ Where will .the money come from to im­ ties by £600,000. Local newspapers plement the Wyndham report? This State throughout the State have published articles Government administers not only the public to the effect that the State Government has education system, but also the private allocated £4,500,000 to co-operative build­ ing societies, but have not mentioned that education system. It will run more opera­ that sum is £600,000 less than last year's house lotteries, but what will it do to allocation. divert more money to education-primary, The Minister for Housing weht overseas secondary, tertiary, private and independent to try to get money for housing. I know education? I think the Minister for Educa­ his visit had to be cut short because of tion has much •to answer for. I am not certain reasons, but I believe hon. mem­ sure whether he has resigned after hear­ bers will want him to tell us how success­ ing the comments of the hon. member for ful he was, as money is badly needed for Wollondilly. Certainly he has refrained housing in this State. I shall not labour that matter further, because we on this from coming into the House again: the side of the House put up a souhd housing hon. member for Wollondilly will answer scheme. Nevertheless, we shall look forward the Premier on that matter. 126 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address i11 Reply

I should like to refer to the Premier's unless a change is made in the system of answer today to a question about appren­ apprenticeship the development of our State .tices asked by the bon. member for Hart­ will be retarded. I put facts and figures ley. My supplementary question seemed before the Premier in my question today. to be rather inoffensive and constructive, but The system of apprenticeship is a challenge the Premier appeared to be under a mis­ to private enterprise, the unions and the apprehension. I said that the lack of ap­ Government. prentices was a real problem, or a real I am glad that the Minister for Mines is difficulty. The Premier might 'have re­ in the Chamber. We all realise, as two new ferred to it as a challenge. I think it is bon. members have said, that no adequate a challenge to private enterprise and the survey has been made of this State's mineral Government. Many employers have told resources. Another new bon. member said me that under our present system they ex­ that we must make the best use of our perience difficulty in getting apprentices. I natural resources. We all know that Aus­ am of the opinion that conferences should tralia is a vast treasure chest of minerals. be held between private industry, the unions However, it is a huge country, and much and the Government to hammer out these money will be needed to tap these mineral things. It is especially hard for small resources. No adequate explanation is employers in country areas to get appren­ given in the Governor's speech of the Gov­ tices. Many young men leaving school ernment's failure to make an adequate sur­ are dazzled by the good wages being paid vey of our mineral wealth, and I say in dead-end jobs, and they do not become advisedly that the Government stands con­ apprenticed. However, some of them come victed of inactivity in this field. Coking to their senses a couple of years later and coal is the life-blood of the steel industry, say tba.t they would like to learn a trade. and coal-handling plant is being installed The problem of getting enough appren­ with the backing of the Commonwealth tices has not been solved. Until it is solved, Government by way of grants and loan industry will Jack the required number of moneys. Do we know our own resources? trained men. The Government is :fully Are we sure of the resources that are avail­ aware that qualified tradesmen are urgently able to our industries? needed in industry. Mr. SIMPSON: This Government stands Mr. BENNETT: The introduction of day­ for exploration of mineral wealth. light training bas helped a lot in solving the problem. Mr. JACK BEALE: I say that the Gov­ ernment, which bas been in office for Mr. JACK BEALE: There is still twenty-one years, is twenty-one years too a shortage of trained men, particularly late. No proper survey of mineral resources technicians. An industrialist told me that for has been made in New South Wales. The years be had been seeking boys for his Government has failed to realise that since industry. He bad been in touch with the World War II we have been living in a Commonwealth Employment Agency and for two months he inserted advertisements brand new world. Has the Government weekly in The Sydney Morning Herald. made a survey of iron-ore deposits in New He received inquiries from two boys who South Wales? had not passed the intermediate. He can­ Mr. SIMPSON: Yes. not get suitable boys as cadet trainees. He cannot get trained tradesmen. Un­ Mr. JACK BEALE: I should like the skilled workers have much more diffi­ Minister to join in the debate and tell us culty than skilled workers in finding about it. What about oil? His Excellency employment, and I have always told young says in his speech that oil has been found people in my electorate to get a background of training-to learn some trade, or to enter just over the border-in another State. We a profession, if they can. This vast social are lagging behind the other States in oil problem will not be solved overnight, and exploration. Except for the island State of Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962) Addr('sr in Reply 127

Tasmania, New South Wales has the Stewarts & Lloyds (Australia) Proprie­ .smallest oil-search programme in the Com­ tary Limited, which began in 1934, is one monwealth. What are we doing about it? of the newest indu.stries in the Waratah electorate. Its original work force of 200 Mr. SIMPSON: What do you mean by men and annual steel consumption of 38,000 .. 'we"? tons have now risen to 3,000 employees and Mr. BooTH: Does the bon. member mean 275,000 tons of steel a year, in the manu­ the Queensland Government? facture of seamless pipes. Newbold General Refractories Limited is another important Mr. JACK BEALE: A good government -a Liberal-Country Party government­ industry within my electorate. It employs approximately 500 men and produces the has done something about it. equivalent of 2,000,000 standard bricks a Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The bon. year, using 40,000 tons of coal annually. member has exhausted his time. Even in a heavy industrial area such as Waratah, Newbold General Refractories Mr. GREAVES (Waratah) [4.59]: First, Limited is no small undertaking. This I should like to congratulate the bon. mem­ firm intends to expand its brick production ber for Randwick and the hon. member for and for some years it has been filling in the Nepean upon their maiden speeches. I Hexham swamps to raise the ground above know how they felt, because I feel exactly flood level. Portion of this ground is now the same now. I thank the electors of above flood level and Newbolds have built Waratah for electing me to represent them upon it another factory, which will produce in this Parliament. Waratah is one of the the bricks for the L.D. furnaces that will biggest industrial electorates in the Com­ come into operation shortly at the Broken monwealth, and I compliment the former Hill Proprietary works. I shall have some­ member, Mr. Purdue, upon his remarkable thing more to say about them. achievements in representing it in this par­ liament for the past six years. I believe In the Waratah electorate is located the that he would have achieved almost the im­ Newcastle abattoir, which employs 440 possible had he won the seat a third time. men and has an annual income of more I have lived in ·the Newcastle district all my than £2,000,000. It belongs to the Council life, and I am fully aware that the industrial of the City of Newcastle. Commonwealth electorate of Waratah has become part and Steel Company Limited began operations parcel of the everyday activities of the great in 1918 with 140 employees. Today it em­ city of Newcastle. ploys more than 2,000 persons. This repre­ I have made a list of industries within sents a remarkable achievement by this the boundaries of the Waratah electorate. organisation, which makes special steels such There is, first, the Broken Hill Proprietary as those used in the ·manufacture of tools. The Broken Hill Proprietary Company Company Limited, employing 10,500 men Limited produced its first steel at New­ and women, the chemical works, John castle on 9th April, 1915. It has so ex­ Lysaght (Australia) Limited and Common­ panded since that time that it is now cap­ wealth Steel Company Limited, which em­ able of producing 1,200,000 tons of steel ploys over 2,000 persons. The electorate also a year. bas Rylands Bros. (Australia) Proprietary Limited, Stewarts & Lloyds (Australia) Pro­ Hon. members are aware of the island prietary Limited, employing 3,000, and reclamation scheme under way in the Newbold General Refractories Limited. All Waratah electorate. Under this scheme the amenities associated with industrial ex­ 6,400 acres of very valuable land will be pansion are also within my electorate. We made available for industrial expansion have the boys' high school, the technical within the Newcastle district. A parlia­ college and the university college, as well mentary delegation recently visited New­ as the Shortland site for the University of castle and inspected this project, where much Newcastle. In my electorate also is the sand and silt are being pumped from the Western Suburbs Hospital, and the Mater river bed on ·to the adjacent islands to raise Hospital. them above flood level. This action has 128 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply a double benefit ; it reclaims land for in­ the necessary fuel for the plant, Broken dustrial purposes and deepens the river so Hill Proprietary Limited will build three that ships of 30,000 and 40,000 tons will 140-tons-a-day high-purity oxygen plants be able to berth in that part of Newcastle to supply the needs of the L.D. furnaces. Harbour. Two basic oxygen L.D. furnaces will re­ In about 1950, land was set aside for the place the old open-hearth furnaces that have establishment of a university in Newcastle. been in operation at Newcastle for many Under an exchange agreement which was years. The new furnaces will produce 200 subsequently ratified by Parliament, the tons of steel each in a cycle of about fifty Broken Hill Proprietary Company Limited or sixty minutes. It is stated in the B.H.P. undertook to remove an 11-acre bulge in review that the cost of steel produced in the course of the river and to re-align its the new plant will be 35 per cent less than banks. In exchange for this watercourse by the old method. Also, the new fur­ known as Platt's channel, the Broken Hill naces will be smaller than the old ones, Proprietary Company Limited transferred consequently there will be more room for to the Government 337 acres of land, in­ charging the new plant. cluding 293 acres of fine building land. The two L.D. furnaces working together The company bas removed the bulge, and will produce 400 tons of steel at a time, 200,000 cubic yards of mud and sand have and they will continue in production over been pumped on to the adjacent land to the twenty-four hours of the day. Deduct­ reclaim it. On this site a high-speed four­ ing four hours a day for emergencies, stand rod mill is now being built and it it is reasonable to assume that there will be will be in operation next year. It is inter­ twenty heats a day and therefore a daily e~ting to note this dual expansion in indus­ output from the two furnaces of 8,000 try and education, side by side. The new tons of steel. Incidentally, I worked at rod mill displaces the old one built in the the open hearth myself for more than steelworks in 1918, which is now out of twenty years and therefore I have had some date. The new high-speed mill will pro­ experience in steel making. By comparison duce much more than four times as much with the new equipment, the old furnaces steel as the old mill. It is interesting to each produce approximately 160 tons of note the adoption of modern methods in steel every ten hours. Therefore, if we industry. assume two heats a day for each furnace Since the land exchange agreement took and calculate output on a basis of twelve place between the Broken Hill Proprietary furnaces, daily production is 4,000 tons Limited and the Government, a number of of steel. Hence output will be doubled local committees have been established to with the two new furnaces in operation, recommend suitable sites for a university and 720 fewer men will be employed for Newcastle. The first committee, after at the open hearth. This will mean that much press publicity, finally decided that over a period of twelve months production the place selected in 1950 by the Labor will be more than doubled and the cost of Government as the site for a university in production will be considerably less. An Newcastle was the correct one. open-hearth employee receives an average annual income of £1,200. Thus, the annual In addition to industrial expansion there saving in wages to the company will be has been an increase in university educa­ £864,000. When one takes into account tion. Yesterday His Excellency the the cost of long-service leave and other Governor mentioned that large sums of award requirements, the saving to the money would be spent on expanding the company will be over £900,000 or, in steelworks at Newcastle. Naturally, His round figures, about £1,000,000 a year. Excellency's reference to this matter was quite brief. I am able to expand a little It has been said that Australia makes the on this topic and I shall do so by telling cheapest steel in the world. That is so, the House about a new process known as the and the reasons are obvious. In Australia L.D. process, which was introduced many we have extremely high-grade iron ore. years ago in Upper Austria. To provide Even the new deposit that is being worked Mr. Greaves] Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962] Address in Reply 129

in Western Australia has an iron content station. With us were delegates from of 62 per cent, and the percentage rises all over New South Wales, and we to as much as 82 per cent in our other iron inspected this modern power station and ore deposits. In most oversea countries saw how close to it were the coalmines iron ore content is between 40 and 45 per that supplied the fuel for the station. We cent. Thus, in Australia we have almost saw the conveyor belts carrying coal from double the quantity of iron in our ore. In the mines to the boilers. All this was an addition, we have limestone deposits in eye-opener to the visiting delegates-who abundance as well as bauxite, coal and the came from all over New South Wales­ other ingredients that go into the making and it was quite obvious to us that because of high-grade steel. The only exception of the new methods of industry we must is nickel. It should be obvious, there­ consider what is to be done about the fore, that the construction of the two new future displacement of labour. L.D. furnaces will have a great bearing We also have to consider the matter of on the future steel production of Australia. automation. As a delegate of my union Steel output will be so fast that special I attended the last congress of the Aus­ provision must be made to analyse the tralian Council of Trade Unions, and there content of each heat, so that it can be the question of automation came up for determined within five minutes after the discussion. A report was submitted by a steel has been tapped. special committee set up by the Australian The two new units at the steelworks at Council of Trade Unions to make a careful Newcastle will replace old plant and, as I investigation into automation. The matter have said, production will more than was very thoroughly debated, and it be­ double. When this sort of thing happened came quite obvious to the delegates to the in the United States of America discussions congress-representing the whole of the were held between representatives of the trade-union movement in this country­ trade unions and the companies. An agree­ that a thirty-five-hour week was essential to ment was reached that the new production ensure that there would be no unemploy­ method would not be introduced bolus­ ment through ,the increased production that bolus but would be brought about gradu­ will take place in the future by the adoption ally so that, with the natural wastage of of improved methods. I have listened to this labour, t\lere would be as little displacement debate very carefully, and I have heard of the existing labour force as possible. some talk about unemployment. I believe At Newcastle discussions have already been that we must consider the effects of auto­ held between the unions and Broken Hill mation in industry because it will allow Proprietary Company Limited. The com­ industry to produce more than ever before pany has stated that it will not lay any men by the application of modern machines and off, but the 720 employees displaced by the methods. new plant will be given jobs in other parts I came through the 1930's and I am of the works. To cope with the increased quite sure that bon. members of this House steel production a new blast furnace is also would not like to see the economic con­ being built at Newcastle. This modern ditions of those days repeated. Indeed, it furnace will have a weekly capacity of would be foolish to allow such a depression 5,000 tons. It is expected to come into to happen again. I believe the electors of operation by 1963. the Commonwealth, including those of I am particularly concerned about the New South Wales, realised the drift in our wastage or displacement of labour through economy and voted in no uncertain terms this particular method of operation. If we at the last federal general elections against consider industry generally we shall find the policy of the Commonwealth Govern­ that what I have put is quite correct. Let ment. I am pleased a Labor Government us consider the special example of the was re-elected in New South Wales but I power industry. Recently, with the mem­ should like to see a Labor Government in bers of the Electricity Authority of New Canberra as we are reaching a- stage where South Wales, I visited Vales Point power the problem of unemployment must be 9 130 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply dealt with not

A very good ~technical college is situated an alderman I moved a motion for the in my electorate. Indeed, everything in building of an overbridge at Donald Street, Newcastle seems to be in the Waratah elec­ and the council agreed that this crossing torate. The technical college is one of the should be given priority. Representatives best of its kind in New South Wales. New­ of the council have discussed this crossing castle, the industrial capital of New South with the Minister for Local Government Wales, must have a technical college of high and Minister for Highways, who bas in­ calibre to train ·tradesmen to work in the spected the site, and I should not be sur­ heavy industries throughout the district. The prised if something were done about it in 7,000 students attending the technical col­ the near future. lege have a choice of 120 courses. New­ Trunk Route 82 is a road which has castle has one of the best and most efficient been authorised by the county council. It hospitals in New South Wales, and Dr. will be a main road linking the suburbs of McCaffery is a very good hospital superin­ Newcastle with the city by a direct route tendent. It has been said many times that the Newcastle hospital would be ideally from Wallsend, through Lambton and . Waratah. If in conjunction with Trunk suited to the establishment of a medical school. The Minister has agreed that it has Route 82 an overbridge is built at Donald all the necessary services and that the next Street, direct access will be available for traffic from Newcastle suburbs into the medical school should be established there. city. Traffic congestion is one of the in­ Newcastle is a prosperous industrial city. escapable problems in a growing city such In the past few years its production has as Newcastle. I have mentioned the city's trebled, and its industries, which are still large population and growth to focus atten­ expanding, having grown enormously. This tion upon these problems, which I am con­ rapid growth has brought with it attendant fident the Government will do everything problems. Since 1950-51 the population of in its power to solve. the Newcastle-Hunter Valley district has increased by 45,000, or about 15 per cent, I thank both State and federal members but the bulk of this growth, representing for the assistance they gave me during the about 22 per cent of the total increase, has election campaign, and I thank the electors occurred in the Newcastle district itself. A of Waratah for their telegrams and letters university college is situated in the Waratah congratulating me on my election. I must electorate and is attended by 1,200 under­ have received 350 messages of congratula­ graduate students, 45 per cent of them tion and, though I was extremely busy at attending full-time courses and the re­ the time, I endeavoured to answer all of mainder doing part-time studies. Newcastle them. If through some oversight I failed also has a large teachers' college. My pur­ to reply to a message of congratulation, I pose in speaking of the Newcastle district extend my apologies to the person who and the Waratah electorate is to emphasise sent it. I say to the electors that I will the importance of the district· to the State. work for the Waratah electorate. I will work for the industrial capital of New South Newcastle, a very large city, has a popu­ Wales-Newcastle-and I will do every­ lation of 208,000. This includes people in thing in my power to see that the best is part of the Lake Macquarie shire. It has done for that great city. I congratulate the problems that are common to most big Government, and I support the motion. cities. The rapid growth of population and industry in the past ten years has brought Mr. CHAFFEY (Tamworth) [5.40]: The about much traffic congestion. The metro­ House is considering the motion moved by politan area of Newcastle is divided by a the hon. member for Randwick and railway line and it is common for delays seconded by the bon. member for Nepean to occur at level crossings. I have been a .for the adoption of the Address in Reply member of the Newcastle City Council for to the speech delivered by His Excellency the past three years, and on numerous occa­ to Parliament yesterday. I join with sions level crossings have been discussed at previous speakers in congratulating those council meetings. Shortly after becoming two hon. members upon the manner in 132 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply which they fulfilled their responsible task. to be regretted that, because of the nature I offer my congratulations also to the bon. of ·the visit it will not be possible for member for Blacktown and the hon. mem­ Her Majesty to spend more time among ber for Waratah who delivered their maiden the people or to make visits away from our speeches in this House today. Although capital cities. I express the hope that the there will be occasions of violent difference time will not be far distant when it will be between us on some controversial issues. possible for Her Majesty to return again nevertheless my colleagues and I look to to this country when greater opportunity for the time when these bon illembers wili be these things might present itself. able to contribute something to the proper working of this Parliament. Last week the State bad a visit from the King and Queen of Thailand-a most sig­ I am somewhat intrigued by the manner nificant 'event in view of what is taking in which they approached their task place in South-east Asia. The warm feel­ in this debate. They seemed to take ings of our people towards these Royal upon themselves the responsibility of visitors were well demonstrated in many defending or making explanations for the ways. The King and Queen of Thailand executive Government. No doubt it was made a tremendous impression here, and the worst brief that the bon. member who everybody who bad the opportunity of hear­ moved the motion for the adoption of the ing His Majesty speak must have been Address in Reply bas ever had. Parliament impressed by his sincerity, his depth of is not a rubber stamp for the executive, and thought and his approach to the problems as bon. members here, our responsibility is confronting him, as well as by his ability to to check upon the work of the executive say most effectively just what be wanted to to ensure that it is not engaging in all sorts express. I am sure that this visit will do of wild-cat schemes that could be against much good for our countries. It will give the public interest. Much as we might feel the people of Australia a better under­ that it would have been a better parliament standing of the position of Thailand in had the gentlemen that these bon. members South-east Asia. I hope that Their Majes­ defeated been here, my colleagues and I ties left these shores assured of the good­ welcome them in a spirit of goodwill and will of the people of Australia towards look forward to debating our differences, their country. though we shall never indulge in personal enmities, if I can put it that way. In the past year many other significant events have taken place. Sydney bas been . We all join with His Excellency in the forum for ·the World Poultry Science feeling joyful at the prospect of another Congress, which was attended by delegates visit, next year, by Her Majesty the Queen from all over the world. Then the Aus­ and His Royal Highness the Duke of Edin­ tralian and New Zealand Association for burgh. My colleagues and I take second the Advancement of Science held its con­ place to none in our loyalty and devotion gress here, bringing together leading per­ to the throne. The Queen is our sovereign. sonalities and authorities in their respective Under our constitutional system, she is the fields. Their visit and discussions were of person to whom we all owe allegiance, and great benefit to us, individually and collec­ as the sovereign bead of the greatest col­ tively. Undoubtedly these two functions lection of people in the world she will have a remarkable, beneficial effect fulfils a vital role in world affairs. upon local activities with which they are Many countries have inherited from associated. Any serious-minded person Great Britain the parliamenttary system must look at present realities and give and the system of rule under a thought to the problems that will confront constitutional monarchy, with the three us in the future. Since World War II we separate arms of the legislature, the execu­ have seen tremendous scientific develop­ tive and the judiciary. We can feel hon­ oured at this projected Royal visit, when ments. Many of them were begun under we will have the opportunity of being able the pressure of war, but they have been to give expression to our feelings. It is further advanced so that today they ensure Mr. Chaffey] Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962] Address in Reply 133 improved general standards in industry, in in this State have been let down in certain living conditions and in all manner of respects by a failure on the part of some activities. political parties to face up to their respon­ sibilities. In addition, one sees all these space activities involving the firing of rockets. In 1960, just two years ago, after quite This situation could get out of hand if it a number of years of persistent persuasion is not properly controlled. It is impossible -to put it mildly-from hon. members on for us to visualise what the future will bring this side of the House, His Excellency the in this field of research. Therefore, we in Governor announced when opening Parlia­ this House must be aware of what is occur­ ment that a civil defence measure would ring ; we must move with the times and be be brought down. Such legislation had ready to counter any developments that been promised by the Government for a may involve the security of the nation. The number of years, but this was the first size of our population, our geographical occasion on which an official statement was situation and our relationships with the made that it would come to fruition. Un­ peoples in countries to the immediate north, fortunately, that is the last that has been those in South-east Asia, will have a big heard of the promised legislation and this bearing on our future. Obviously those State still does not have a civil defence relationships will have special significance measure to give legal status to the director when one pays regard to what is occurring and all the other civil defence officers in some of those areas already. However, who would have tremendous responsibili­ as has been demonstrated in the past, our ties thrust upon their shoulders in a time of people will accept their responsibilities. national crisis or emergency. Though these We as public men should never lose sight people are able to fulfil a most important of the fact that the nation must be pre­ role in times of flood, in particular, or pared, and we should encourage others also storm and fire, their ultimate role will in­ to be vigilant. volve being ready for a time of national Australia has its obligations as a mem­ emergency when our people are threatened ber of various organisations, especially by enemy action from the outside. This, as ANZUS and SEATO. Our repre­ much as anything else, is a point on which sentatives, who are charged with the re­ the Government should be condemned for sponsibility of conferring with the repre­ having failed to accept its proper responsi­ sentatives of allied nations, need as much bility. encouragement as can be given them, first During the post-war years we have all in the initial preparation of agreements and seen a continuing concentration of popula­ later by seeing that they are held in respect tion and vital industries along the eastern when we are called upon to fulfil our seaboard. Moreover, we have witnessed a obligations. This involves a responsible drift of population from country areas to approach by more than one of the parties the metropolis. When one approaches this to the arrangement. I am one who was problem from the viewpoint of the civil most disturbed by recent happenings in defence authorities, one concludes that the West New Guinea. That dispute has now plan in time of crisis is to evacuate been resolved, but one cannot help having the population from the metropolis and dis­ considerable doubts about the real effec­ perse the city dwellers throughout the tiveness of the United Nations Organisa­ countryside. Of course, I am assuming that tion. I am thinking in particular of the the civil defence authorities will be able to crisis that developed in the Congo region organise, in all the chaos and confuson that in Africa. Such developments can in the naturally will arise at such a time, the trans­ long run result in a real threat not only to port necessary to carry the people our own people but also to those in other countries who think, live and govern them­ to the outer parts of the State. Then coun­ selves in somewhat the same way as we try communities will be required to absorb do. Therefore, all sides to agreements must the entire population of suburbs. They be party to their effective preparation. We will be required to accommodate the people, 134 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply feed them, clothe them, provide the neces­ was no urgency and that amending legisla­ sary medical services, and find tasks to tion would be brought down at a later date occupy them. If this is to be the thinking of when bon. members would have the oppor­ our civil defence authorities, why cannot tunity to see what is was ali about. I we effectively disperse people now, in peace­ would not trust that statement for one time, when we have real control of our moment. I just do not believe it. ,resources? Why not encourage people to Let us look at what happened when the go into these areas now, instead of having Government first brought before the House to front up to this problem in a time of -in April, 1960-a bill to authorise the national crisis? construction of the Sydney Opera House. It For a number of years my colleagues and took that long to get parliamentary autho­ I have been bringing this matter of decen­ rity for what the Government was actually tralisation, which is tied in with the security doing. The Government has gone along of the nation, to the forefront. Once again on its own merry way breaking the law, I emphasise the necessity for the Govern­ despite the fact that its attention has been ment to do its job properly by establishing continually called to the state of affairs that the civil defence authorities on a proper has existed. When that bill was before the legal basis, under legislation that will define House Parliament was being asked to their powers, duties and functions. The validate agreements, contracts and other director of civil defence should be repre­ undertakings entered into by the Govern­ sented on every decentralisation planning ment. But this House was not allowed to authority, for I am sure that he can con­ see the documents it was being asked to tribute much to any balanced plan that is validate. considered by such bodies. When the bill was debated this was the procedure. The Premier introduced it and Mr. SPEAKER: Order! As there is a din­ then some Opposition members voiced their ner tonight at which bon. members can pay strong criticism. The debate on the second tribute to a former member of this House reading of the measure was gagged after no who retired from it after thirty-four years other Minister or Government supporter of service, I shall now leave the chair until had spoken, and after the gag had been 8p.m. moved the Premier did not pay the House [Mr. Speaker left the chair at 6 p.m. The the courtesy of replying to our criticism. House resumed at 8 p.m.] When the bill was in Committee two im­ Mr. CHAFFEY: I said in the House portant clauses were gagged through, one yesterday that what has happened in regard of them, the validating .clause 5, being to the opera house is one of the most in­ especially important. It was gagged conceivable of political blunders, one that through with no bon. member being given could not be expected in any part of the an opportunity to speak at all. That is the world, let alone in New South Wales. This sort of treatment that this House is getting. State has been made the laughing stock We were told yesterday that we could of other States and other countries, and expect to have all the relevant information the Government is bringing the name of available to us when the next opera-house the Crown into disrepute. We cannot find bill comes before us. I do not believe out the truth about the matter in Par­ that for one moment. If the Government liament and, consequently, I sought the is honest in this matter why are not those establishment of a select committee to in­ documents available in this House now? quire into and report upon various points Why are we not informed about what the that are very much in doubt at the present Government has in mind? time and leave the Government open to The Minister for Public Works, in reply question as to its integrity and its capacity to a question, said that no advice was to fulfil its constitutional obligations. The sought from the Crown Solicitor and Premier, in opposing the motion of urgency no such advice was submitted to by which I sought opportunity to put the Cabinet. The Minister can correct me in matter before the House, said that there this if what I am saying is wrong, but that Governor's Speech:. [5 SEPT., 1962] Address i~ Reply 135 is the interpretation I place on his statement lottery money and putting it into the special to this House. If legal advice has not deposit account in the Treasury. The law been sought from the Crown Solicitor, then stated ~that all the profits of the lot­ from whom has it been sought? This teries had to be paid to consolidated matter is a Government responsibility and revenue, but the Government authorised the in Cabinet there are some Ministers well departure from the Jaw and gave the direc­ versed in the law-for example, the tion to do so. Somebody must have Attorney-General, the Minister of Justice directed the Director of State Lotteries to and the Minister for Health, a former do what he did, and how he became a party Attorney-General. However, I remember to transferring that money to the special that in 1960 the Minister for Health denied deposit account in 1the Treasury-contrary having any knowledge or responsibility in to the law-I do not know. Nor do I kno·W connection with the opera-house measure. how the Treasurer has accepted it and how These three gentlemen are all members of the advisers to the Treasurer would allow the legal profession and appreciate to the it to be accepted, well knowing the law. full the legal and constitutional responsi­ This Government has been showing com­ bilities involved. If the Crown Solicitor plete contempt of the Jaw in 1this matter has not been consulted, has the Solicitor­ but it is always ready to hide behind the General or the Crown Law Office been con­ sulted? Who is advising the Go.vernment flimsiest provisions of the law if it wants to excuse itself from giving approval to some­ on the matter? If any legal advice has thing that really needs to be done. In cir­ been tendered, why cannot this House be cumstances of that sort Ministers will always informed of it. say that they regret that the law says so­ Some doubts have been cast on some and-so and therefore such-and-such a thing agreements entered into and the extent to cannot be done. They make no attempt to which the Crown has tied its own hands. have amending legislation passed. The The Minister for Public Works has Government has admitted that the cost of said that the Government still has the Sydney Opera House has ballooned to complete control of the work on the colossal proportions. That is alarming to opera house, but I have not seen much everybody and it is obvious that the public evidence of that. It seems to me that the funds of this State will be used for years thing has got completely out of control. to come in the maintenance of that institu­ However, if any commitment has been en­ tion. It would be interesting to know how tered into, this House is entitled to know the seating capacity of the opera house about it. Until the Government discloses will compare with that o.f some of the the true facts Ministers cannot expect any­ theatres in this city, and what the final cost body to believe what they say about the of the building will be. We should also matter. Has the Government something to like to know how many of the major con­ hide, that it is unwilling to come out into struction projects in the city could be com­ the open about the opera house? The pleted for the same money. A comparison whole procedure, right from the outset, has of that nature would give a good indica­ been quite contrary to the accepted and tion of the extent Ito which the public is constitutional practice that should be fol­ not getting value for the tremendous lowed in an undertaking of this nature. I amount of money that will be expended have said these things before and they can­ before this project is completed. not be emphasised too strongly when this In election campaigns Labor candidates House is to be forced to validate actions invariably seek support on the ground of the Government without being informed that, if elected, they will have a voice in about what it is expected to validate. government. Those who have a voice in The Premier said yesterday that no government--every member of the Cabinet, public money was involved and that it every member of the Executive Council­ would not cost the public funds one penny. are not exercising their responsibility in What absolute nonsense. Before the 1960 this matter. The opera house is a govern­ bill the Government was illegally taking ment responsibility, and every member of 136 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply the Cabinet, quite apart from the individual in others. Its own political fraternity, when responsible Minister, must accept joint re­ in power in another place, took sovereignty sponsibility for it. Hon. members who away from this State. support the Government do not have a The opera house is a challenge to every­ voice in government. They are elected to body-not only to hon. members here, but have a voice in Parliament. While they re­ also to people outside-to get a true under­ main dumb on this issue and let the Gov­ standing of exactly what has taken place. ernment-the executive-get away with This Government has brought the name of what it is doing they are equally guilty with the Crown into disrepute. The original the Government of any, offence that it has contract for construction of the opera house committed. I emphasise that point as was signed in the name of the Crown before strongly as I possibly can. a penny had been made available by this The opera house is to become a big issue Parliament for the purpose. The contractor in this State. I am not trying to use it signed the agreement secure in the know­ merely for the sake of ·having an argument ledge that, though no funds had been voted with the Government; many hon. members for the work, it was a contract with the have only recently realised just what is in­ Crown and, if necessary, he could sue the volved in the procedures that have been Crown for breach of contract, and that any followed. Even at this late stage, respon­ judgment awarded against the Crown sibility rests upon this Parliament to stand would be honoured by expenditure of the the Government up and to make it disclose public funds of New South Wales. That the facts. Any hon. member who does not sort of dealing, or what might be termed support this approach is guilty of with­ fixing, does not go in my book. I want to holding the facts from the public, and pre­ place on record here again that I cannot venting them from being truly and properly voice too strongly my complete objection informed. Informed public opinion is essen­ to and condemnation of the way in which tial to the proper workings of our parlia­ the Government has handled this matter. mentary system. When the people are The Leader of the Opposition, in his denied the truth, it is little wonder that determined, exhaustive and detailed criticism peculiar electoral results emerge-results of the Government's policy and adminis­ that are quite contrary to evidence which trative record in various departments, has for years has suggested that this Govern­ already built up a tremendous case for the ment should have been kicked out of Government to answer. He pointed out office. The opera house is a shining that the key of effective government is example of the Government's complete lack proper control of government finance. Over of responsibility. It will forever remain a the years, in spite of the continuing cry of monument of this regime's irresponsible lack of funds, each year, especially over handling of public funds and its complete the past twelve years since the change of brushing aside of the law and its responsi­ government in the federal field, increasing bilities under the law. amounts have been made available to this The hon. member for Randwick, who State. The federal Government could not moved the motion for the adoption of the have been more generous to the States in Address in Reply, spoke of the sovereignty general, and to this State in particular. of the New South Wales Parliament. The More will be said about this when the Government's handling of this affair repre­ Budget comes before the House. All the sents a hand-over of sovereignty. A State claims about this State's being starved of signing an agreement that passes control out funds is completely untrue. Indeed, the of its hands is handing over its own federal Government has gone out of its sovereignty, and despite the talk about the way to allocate to the States far more sovereignty of this State, this Government finance than it is obliged to allocate, and its supporters have become party to either under the financial agreement setting losing it. The Government has handed up the Loan Council or under the formula over the sovereignty of New South Wales for sharing the proceeds of income m some matters, and it has given it away tax. This Government receives those large Mr. Chaffey] Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962] Address in Reply 137 sums, and almost immediately its Ministers applied half way through the debate on the scream out for further Commonwealth estimates before we have reached the assistance. estimates of some important departments. When uniform taxation was last con­ By the application of the gag the Govern­ sidered, the Premier of New South Wales ment has forced this House to approve of at the time suggested to the Common­ the expenditure of hundreds of millions of wealth that it should collect income tax pounds. Last year the estimates-- on all salaries and incomes under £800 a Mr. REX JACKSON: What rot! year, and the State should collect income tax on higher incomes. Nobody would fall Mr. CHAFFEY: I will get the Premier for that laughable suggestion, and few to tell you to go to the butcher's shop people would take it seriously. The Labor again if you keep on interjecting. Government wanted another authority to become unpopular with a big group in the Mr. SPEAXER: Order! The hon. mem­ community while the field remained open ber has interjected once only. Any inter­ jection is disorderly, but he has not kept to it to slug the wage~payer. That has been part of the problem in New South Wales. on interjecting. This Government has made it difficult for Mr. CHAFFEY: I remembered one inter­ the wage-payer to assume his responsi­ jection before dinner. bilities. If the wage-payer falls by the way­ side, how on earth can the wage-earner Mr. SPEAKER: I was not in the chair cenefit? then. For many years this Government has Mr. CHAFFEY: The hon. member for followed the practice of spending public Bulli interjected "what rot". The fact is money without parliamentary authority. It that last year ·the estimates were gagged has always opposed the setting up of a before bon. members even reached a con­ public accounts committee that would be sideration of the estimate of the Department a watchdog for Parliament in investigating of Education. public expenditure. The Public Accounts Committee of the federal Parliament does Mr. CRABTREE: Hon. members opposite. good work in throwing the spotlight on had wasted so much time beforehand. many weaknesses in administration. Mr. SPEAXER: Order! Up to a minute A committee of that nature, quite apart ago the House was exemplary in conduct. from being normal parliamentary practice, I hope hon. members keep it that way. could be most helpful to Ministers and to administration. The outside viewer Mr. PUNCH: Hon. members on the Gov­ often sees things that are not apparent to ernment benches were not game to inter­ those enmeshed in administration. Most ject. Ministers would concede that members on Mr. SPEAXER: Order! I just made an both sides of the House are most helpful observation and the hon. member for in the normal activities of their department Gloucester deliberately defies me. I call and their administration. When we dis­ him to order for the first time. cuss cases with departmental officers around the country we generally look at matters Mr. CHAFFEY: A department such as from the administrative point of view of the Department of Education raises peren­ the Minister, and if a decision goes a cer­ nial problems affecting all bon. members. tain way, we accept it as being reasonable. and virtually every member of the com­ Hon. members do not quibble about those munity in some way or other. Hon. mem­ matters and I believe that often they con­ bers are always being approached by vey most helpful information to a Minister parents and other people on behalf of or to an officer of his department. schools on difficulties confronting them I suppose that this year bon. members will from time to time. At times we are asked go through the same experience as in the to voice these matters in Parliament, yet past few years, when the gag has been when the education estimate comes before 138 Governor's Speech: {ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply Parliament debate is gagged and bon. mem­ know how shire councils fared in 1947•. bers are not allowed to discuss it. The 1948 and 1949 under a federal Labor ad­ same thing goes on with estimates of some ministration, compared with what they are of the other big departments and of some getting today for the same purpose. It is business undertakings, which can have a ten, twelve or even fifteen times more. great effect upon the financial position of Earlier today a Government speaker in the the State. debate was talking .about the new coal­ When the House met after the last gen­ loading equipment at Newcastle as if this eral elections extra funds had been made Government were doing the whole thing available to all States by the Common­ itself. Quite a substantial amount of wealth and I asked the Deputy Premier money has been made available by the and Treasurer whether he intended to bring Commonwealth Government over the past in a supplementary Appropriation Bill two years for this specific purpose. to authorise their expenditure. He replied Mr. McCARTNEY: Made available on that he would not do so, as it was a mere loan. book entry-something in and something out. My conception of things is that the Mr. CHAFFEY: I have not seen the expenditure of that money, once it came State accounts yet, but the Commonwealth to the State as revenue, required parliamen­ budget has been brought down and the tary sanction. Even at this belated stage I Commonwealth financial documents are shall be curious to see how it is accounted available. I know how much the Com­ for in the Budget. The Commonwealth monwealth made available for this equip­ Parliament passed an Act to authorise what ment. Government supporters say that the had been done. That is the proper accep­ State is being starved for funds. Let them tance and acknowledgment by an executive prove it. This State is getting the money government of its responsibility to from the Commonwealth Government but parliament. a Government supporter today is giving If the Commonwealth had exercised its the impression that the Commonwealth is rights under the financial agreement it not assisting in the supply of modern coal­ would be entitled to 20 per cent of the handling equipment at Newcastle. This funds raised by public loan. The present impression is completely false and phoney. federal Government has never exercised He is not telling the public the truth when that right-in fact, it has gone even further he tries to spread those stories around. It the other way. When the public loan will be very interesting to see how the Gov­ market has not been able to meet the de­ ernment, which he supports, and in which mands for capital works within the States the bon. member for Kogarah has a most the Commonwealth has supported the re­ effective voice, will present its accounts for quirements of the States, as determined by last year and its forecast for the ensuing the Loan Council, from its own revenue financial year. funds. Of a total loan allocation of about Mr. CRABTREE: Tell us about the £2,000,000,000 over the past ten or twelve hospitals. years, £800,000,000 has been provided out of Commonwealth revenue. That is an­ Mr. CHAFFEY: I shall come to hos­ other example of the extent to which this pitals. There are qui,te a number of matters Government has received exceptional assis­ I have yet to deal with. This House must tance from the Commonwealth-quite the give consideration to a number of matters reverse of the position when this Govern­ contained in His Excellency's speech. The ment's own colleagues were in power in Government has no mandate for some of Canberra. the subjects mentioned, for during the elec­ I could mention other additional finance tion campaign, it did not mention them for the States. Another shining example to acquaint the people of its intention. is the funds made available to the States Again, as always, one must be alert to try under the Commonwealth Aid Roads to find out items that should have been Grant. The Minister for Lands would mentioned, but have been omitted from His Mr. Chaf!ey] Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962] Address in Reply 139

Excellency's speech. The Leader of the are able to ascertain the facts. Parliament Opposition has already effectively dealt has the power, if it is exercised, to get these with a number of these questions. It is facts, but Parliament cannot function pro­ useless for the bon. member for Kogarah perly if a majority of its members have and other bon. members to try to make pledged themselves to an outside body. out that they are effective in this House: These lessons must be somehow brought they are not doing here what they ought to home to the people. be doing. Though they may have strict There are those who have big responsi­ views on some things, express their bilities in ~be training of youngsters, and opinions very forcefully, and vote a par­ very often the presentation of their case ticular way in caucus, their views mean to bon. members shows a complete lack nothing if when a measure is before Parlia­ of understanding of the way in which this ment, •they vote in a way contrary to their Parliament is supposed to work. They beliefs. seem unaware that limitations are placed on Mr. RIGBY: That is democracy. bon. members. They cannot move in this House a motion that will involve the Mr. CHAFFEY: It is not democracy at expenditure of public money, for such all. An bon. member who did so would motions must first be recommended to the be flouting the responsibilities that are im­ House by the Governor. When sup­ posed upon him by the electors when they posedly knowledgeable persons responsible return him to this Chamber. for training younger minds do not under­ stand the basic principles of the system in Mr. RIGBY: The bon. member-- this Parliament, it is little wonder that cases Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I call the bon. are presented in a completely wrong way, member for Hurstville to order for the first for those who present them misunderstand, time. on the one hand, what Parliament is sup­ posed to do and its limitations and, on the Mr. CHAFFEY: He has pledged him­ other hand, its very wide powers, if they self to a body outside Parliament and has are exercised properly. I have made a most given his first priority to that pledge in­ interesting but brief study of the effective stead of honouring his constitutional re­ use of parliamentary committees in other sponsibility in this House. parliaments, all of which have led finally Mr. ROBSON: What rot! to better and more responsible government. If the establishment of these committees is Mr. CHAFFEY: Hon. members opposi•te resisted by the executive Government and should look at the pledges that they have Parliament is not allowed to find out what signed. I shall have more to say when the Government is up to, then all manner these measures, with which we must deal, of things are covered up and one does not come before the House. I had something get a proper, balanced approach to the re­ to say about the Public Accounts Com­ sponsibilities on the ministerial level and mittee and I mentioned a move for the down through the various channels of the establishment of a select committee so that public service. There is no likelihood of the people of this State can be informed daylight being let into what they are sup­ on these matters. One of the features of posed to be responsible for. the past twenty-one years of government As has already been said, this Govern­ has been the extent to which the com­ ment exhibits no shame at all in taking mittee system has not been allowed to over, for the sake of expediency, policies operate in this Parliament. This institu­ tion is quite different from oversea parlia­ that have been announced in the first in­ stance by the Leader of the Country Party ments and parliaments in other Australian and later by the Leader of the Opposition. States. This State's parliamentary system It must be said, too, that these policies that is the weaker for it, because members can­ have been taken over had been resisted by not apply themselves effectively to ques­ the Government during the whole of the tions that come before them unless they previous Parliament, and even before then. 140 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply

The establishment of a ministry of indus­ suitable arrangement by making an appro­ trial development and decentralisation was priate recommendation to His Excellency part of our basic policy. This Govern­ the Governor. ment long resisted it, but then, realising that it had to do something to counter the Earlier I had something to say about growing realisation that it had failed to respect for the law. I understand that soon give effect to true decentralisation that a measure will be coming before the House would produce results, had to make some in connection with retail trading hours. move like this to divert public attention. People have been persecuted and penalised This Government's policy does not go as for breaking what has been virtually one man's policy. Apparently there is to be far as ours, the details of which were effec­ some variation of it. Even so, irrespective tively and admirably presented to this of the form of the variation, it will be House by my colleague the bon. member pretty poor solace for those who have been for Armidale, who doubtless will have more persecuted-especially those continuously to say on the subject during this debate. persecuted-by the present administration I deal now with superannuation. In this for having attempted to give service to the instance, also, this Government, having re­ public. Here again the Government has sisted reforms for so long, on the eve of not been consistent, for the law is applied the election, after our policy had been in one way at one particular spot and in announced, adopted it. A similar comment a different way at another. For example, applies to the housing guarantee proposals ; one area of this city is noted for what might though the Government resisted this be described as virtually its open shop­ scheme, it finally adopted it. I have not ping activities. Little wonder that recently yet seen any statement of the Government's somebody wrote a popular song about that intention to adjust the railway superannua­ centre. This is a matter that was not tion fund, which apparently is in difficulties. mentioned by the Premier or any of his supporters during the recent election cam­ I shall now touch on a matter with which paign. Hon. members will recall other I have been hesitant to deal, for reasons examples of breaches of the law by the that will be obvious to everyone. The posi­ Government. tion has now been reached where this sub­ ject cannot be allowed to go unmentioned Much has been said from time to time any longer. I refer to the office of Chief about having a "voice in government". In Justice of this State. Once the appointment other words, the view is held that the Legis­ was made, no criticism emanated from us, lature is of no importance and can be in spite of our own private feelings on how by-passed by having a voice in govern­ the appointment was made and the circum­ ment. To begin with, the phrase implies stances surrounding the decision. The stage bribing people with their own money. The has been reached where this office is not implication is that he who supports the effectively occupied, and this must be hav­ Government will gain more for his elec­ ing a damaging effect upon the proper torate than one who supports the Opposi­ administration of justice. tion. This state of affairs is a reflection on anyone who makes such a statement. Mr. ASKIN: The Government knew the If in fact this sort of thing is occurring, office would not be effectively occupied Ministers of the Crown are not fulfilling when they appointed the gentleman. He their oaths of office and, even worse, it was a sick man then. reflects upon the many able, responsible members of the public service who are Mr. CHAFFEY: That is true, and un­ charged with administering their depart­ fortunately his condition has worsened. ments and handling public funds. When a Minister of the Crown acknowledges that The time has arrived when the Govern­ he supports this view, he should be required ment should recognise what has happened. to explain what he means by it. Other­ It must be aware of the undercurrent of wise, are we on this side of the House opinion, and it is time that it came to a to accept as a straight-out statement of Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962) Address in Reply 141 fact that because an hon. member sits on law with contempt. Again, one finds evi­ this side and puts forward a case on behalf dence of this teeing-up process between in­ of a constituent, a local-government body, a dustrial bodies and •the executive Govern­ hospital board or a parents and citizens' ment for fines to be imposed on people and association in his electorate, it will not be the proceeds shared. The situation might be dealt with on its merits? likened to the activities of a couple of I cannot say that I have observed such highwaymen holding up an innocent things happening. Even though there might citizen who is trying to go about what be some delay· before the required action should be regarded as his legitimate busi­ is taken, generally speaking when it is ness of attempting to serve the public. He warranted, eventually it is ·taken. The is held up by the Crown on one side and Minister for Public Works is reported as on the other by an industrial union. Be­ having made a statement along the lines tween them they carry off the proceeds. I have mentioned. On 19th February last It is high time that this House called for the Minister is reported in the Ric,hmond some record of how much has been paid River Express as saying that if the people out in this way. of the Casino electorate changed to Labor Traditionally my colleagues and I in this on 3rd March they would ensure that the House and those in the federal Parliament electorate would receive a better share of pay special attention to the problems of the the State's finances by having a voice in primary industries because of their import­ the Government. If the people fall for ance to the nation. Country Party members such statements, there will soon be a rapid have a special awareness of the breakdown in the machinery of responsible problems of their electorates. People government. I am bringing this newspaper who I'ive in country towns recognise report to the attention of the Minister to that if the primary industries are eco­ give him an opportunity to reply to it if nomically unhealthy, the nation will suffer. he so wishes. I was indeed sorry to see If rural income falls, the turnover in busi­ such a remark recorded in a newspaper. ness in the town suffers ; little money is Mr. P. N. RYAN: The hon. member spent in the town and finally the whole of should not believe everything he reads. the nation is affected. Rural income is the basic wealth that starts the cycle through Mr. CHAFFEY: I do not, and that is the retailer, the manufacturer, the im­ why I am giving the Minister an oppor­ porter, the professions and the business tunity to clarify the matter. The report people. They all take their share of the appeared in that newspaper and conse­ wealth as it goes in the cycle. That basic quently the quicker it is denied-if it can income is turned over many times during be denied-the better. Unfortunately I a year. Because we of the Country Party have seen similar statements appearing in are aware of the effects that flow when ,rural official advertisements of the Australian income is reduced, we always pay particular Labor Party and I have heard them made attention to any matter that affects primary by candidates. I regard this as an incorrect industries. This does not mean that we approach to a primary responsibility. are not conscious of the problems confront­ ing other sections of the community Time and again I have had much to say engaged in trade, commerce, secondary about tampering with the industrial arbitra­ tion machinery by emasculating the judicial industry, the professions and the public powers under the Act. Directions are service. given against which there can be no appeal The mining industry is a major primary to a judicial authority for final determina­ industry and is growing in importance. The tion. Last night the Leader of the Opposi­ discovery of oil in commercial quantities, tion dealt most effectively with the non­ uranium and some of the new minerals is collection of fines that have been imposed widening the field. Last year the value of under our arbitration legislation. If the the mineral output of Australia was over provisions are not to be enforced, it is little £200,000,000. Less than 50 per ceht of wonder that some militant bodies treat the this was from coal. When one considers all 142 Goverrwr' s Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply

the various minerals and metals, and the The position is complicated, also, by the uses to which they are put in homes, the fact that New South Wales would not enter manufacturing industries, the building into any federal organisation for the mar­ trade-in fact in almost every process ex­ keting of eggs overseas. New South Wales, cept the production of foodstuffs-one under the influence of the Minister of the becomes aware of the growing importance day, decided to go it alone. The result bas of the mining industry. Also, the fishing been that Australia has two representative industry is of considerable importance. bodies overseas, each trying to sell the Aus­ Where a primary industry is in difficulty tralian product in the one market. Over­ the Country Party starts to apply its mind sea countries play one organisation off to the problem. If we are not in govern­ against the other and sometimes obtain a ment we want to find out what the Govern­ substantially lower price for the product ment proposes to do. than would have been obtained had a single A glaring example of the lack of atten­ federal approach been made. I under­ tion to its responsibilities is the Govern­ stand that New South Wales is coming ment's approach to the margarine industry. round to that way of thinking. It will The Government, by its failure to uphold have to face the position and I hope that the law and to honour the gentleman's the vanity of any Minister will not influence agreement with members of the Australian the proper action that should be taken for Agricultural Council to limit the manu­ the benefit of the industry. facture of margarine, is incurring the Ron. members have beard and read much hostility of other States. I know the strong in recent weeks about the United King­ attitudes and feelings of the other States dom's entry in the European Common Mar­ that are effectively honouring the law and ket. Most people's views differ according the agreement. New South Wales is not to the occupation in which they happen to honouring the agreement and is thereby be engaged. The United Kingdom's entry affecting the industry in adjoining States. into the common market will have varying If this State does not do something economic effects according to the different to correct the position and deal with those industries affected. It could easily be the who are breaking the law, the other States death-knell of some industries, especially will lose patience and decide not to put up if the United Kingdom enters the common with border-hopping competition. They market on the terms originally proposed. are curbing their own margarine industry Everyone who is not completely politically under the agreement reached between all prejudiced must pay credit to the Minister the States and to which New South Wales for Trade, the Rt. Ron. John McEwen, for was a party. The Country Party expects the wonderful job he has done overseas on the Government to bring something to light behalf of Australia. He has not only early in the session, or come under heavy warned Australia of the dangers that face fire for its attitude to the margarine in­ it, but also has pointed out forcefully to dustry. the United Kingdom and to the member The poultry industry is another that has countries of the European Economic Com­ run into difficulties. It bas been affected munity the possible effects upon particular by the large post-war expansion and the industries in Australia. Today, the concept rapidly-growing oversea demand, especially is completely different from that obtaining in Europe, in the immediate post-war twelve months ago. The Prime Minister, years. The poultry i·ndustry is one that also, has stated the case for Australia most can be built up in a short space of time, effectively. Both these gentlemen are now but as oversea markets have declined, the overseas trying to negotiate the best pos­ industry in Australia has almost reached sible terms for Australia should the saturation point. The usual results have United Kingdom join the common market. followed, with some producers going out At the same time they are pursuing an of the industry and others seeking other expanding trade drive in other countries, outlets for their product. The broiler in­ particularly those in South-east Asia. How­ dustry has provided a way out for some. ever, we cannot go on spending money Mr. Choffey] Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962] Address in Reply 143

blindly on the assumption that we shall for Industrial Development and Decen­ continue to receive the same revenue, for tralisation mentioned at Glen Innes the something is going to take place that must State's sponsorship of a major research affect our export earnings, derived prin­ project at the Australian National Uni­ cipally from primary products, which are versity. That project was directly con­ generally marketed as bulk commodities. nected with decentralisation, and is an The system of disposal is different from indication that this Government is not satis­ that of the secondary industries product, fied that it has all the answers here in New which is generally disposed of on an indi­ South Wales but is looking to somebody vidual-to-individual basis. else to point the way it should go. The earnings of wool and wheat alone Mr. HuGHES: And it did not even have only just covered tl.tt: cost of the approach one of its own universities. materials that have to be imported to sus­ tain secondary industry, so that if our Mr. CHAFFEY: That is so. The Min­ export earnings are affected not only will ister said that the Australian Labor Party the primary industries suffer but also the has always supported policies aimed at secondary industries and all the people securing the widespread dispersal of popu­ who have to rely upon a prosperous com­ lation and economic activity. I do not munity for their livelihood. The persistent know what he meant by that, because after interjector at the back of me, the bon. twenty-one years of office there is very member for Kogarah, mentioned the federal little evidence that this Government has leader of his own party. Last year after the brought about any decentralisation. In Commonwealth Minister .for Trade had fact, industries in the country have closed very effectively drawn attention to the and, as I said earlier, the population in threat presented to Australia by the United country areas has declined. I wish to quote Kingdom's proposal to enter the European now what the Labor leader said in 1941 Economic Community, the federal Labor in his policy speech delivered before the leader said that his only regret about the general elections held in that year. At that matter was that the Minister should have time, which was the beginning of a long done it sooner and should have done more sequence of bad government in New South about it. Only a few months ago the same Wales, this leader said: federal leader of the Australian Labor Party Always a part of Labor's policy, dece~­ said that the Commonwealth Government tralisation of industry, now that we are at should not have done anything about the war, has become even more important. The heavy and secondary industries vital to our threat, but should have waited until the war effort and to our national existence are United Kingdom had joined the European at present grouped in frighteningly vulner­ Economic Community before it started to able areas along, or close to, our coast line. complain. Fortunately, our Minister for It is essential that new industries being launched should be situated inland, in selected Trade, the Right Ron. John McEwen, had and suitable country areas. his sights set in the right direction, and he Our whole policy, so far as decentralisa­ was not diverted by the things that appeal tion is concerned, in fact, spring from the to the hon. member for Kogarah. He is realisation that a State, to be healthy, must slowly but surely getting his message across, have a balanced economy, a balanced popu­ lation and a balanced outlook. All these and nobody in Australia could have done things are threatened by the present concen­ the job as effectively as he has done it. tration in relatively small and few areas of all industry except the farming and pastoral Mr. CRABTREE: He never looked for an industries. additional market in his life. That is an announcement of policy made Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I call the hon. twenty-one years ago, but nothing has been member for Kogarah to order for the first done to implement it. Instead, just time. :the reverse has happened and there has Mr. CHAFFEY: On the matter of de­ been an over-concentration of industry centralisation, I notice that recently the on the seaboard. Will the Govern­ Deputy Premier, Treasurer and Minister ment continue to give only lip service 144 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply to decentralisation, or will it correct tremendous additional cost. Some projects some of its policies and discourage the that have not been proceeded with have dangerous centralisation that is

seeing what was being done in Germany Mr. P. N. RYAN. (Marrickville), Min­ and elsewhere on the Continent, he was ister for Public Works [9.35]: I add my inspired to do something about technical congratulations to those already extended education and he was able to convince to the new members who have made their those 'associated with him here that techni­ maiden speeches in this debate. I con­ cal education was most desirable. If the gratulate them upon the very high standard Technical Education Bill had not been put that they have exhibited. Certainly, they through and the technical education system have demonstrated a sense of responsibility, had not been started then, goodness knows and they will indeed be an effective voice where we would have found our technicians in the Government and will worthily re­ when the second world war broke out, par­ present the people who sent them :here. ticularly for the aircraft industry. They will continue to demonstrate that sense of responsibility not only in this In spite of what Government supporters House but also outside it. might say, the Hon. David Drummond for­ mulated the pilot scheme for decentralisa­ The irresponsible statements that have tion of education administration: he formed been made and the wild charges of mal­ the first area directorate at Newcastle. If administration, bungling and other descrip­ any Government member wants to query tions that have been directed against the that he can go to the department, where he Government, particularly in relation to this will soon find out the facts. For the Pre­ great project, the Sydney Opera House, mier to get up today and refer to puny have caused me to speak in this debate. efforts is unpardonable. I can understand The Acting Leader of the Country Party something being said in the heat of debate has demonstrated that irresponsibility in a and an hon. member being carried away real way, as I propose to show. He said when provoked, but what the Premier said at the conclusion of his speech that this today was· unfair and not in accordance Government has come into disrepute be­ with fact. I want to put those facts on cause of the bungling and mishandling that record to preserve the grand record of the he says it has exhibited in this important Hon. David Drummond as Minister for matter. He said that the people hold the Education. Government and this House in disrepute, but let me say positively to him and to the This House and the community alike are House that when the smoke of battle has confronted with a challenge to preserve this cleared, if anyone is held in disrepute it institution for the future and, indeed, the will be those who have indulged in irre­ very standards by which we live. There is sponsible statements and made rash charges no more glaring example of a government's without making any attempt to examine failure in its responsibilities than the sub­ the facts. ject-matter on which I started my speech tonight. Hon. members know that I have Mr. ASKIN: Does that include Mr. Mulvihill? always spoken very heatedly on this subject, but the things that I forecasted and was Mr. P. N. RYAN: The Leader of the concerned about early in the piece have all Opposition, too, will come into that cate­ developed as I feared they would, and now gory, as I shall demonstrate. The Premier the project is blowing up in the face of the has indicated to the House that soon a bill Government. It is time that it shouldered will be introduced to amend the Sydney its responsibilities, fulfilled its obligations, Opera House Act. At that time-which is and was honest with Parliament and, the appropriate time-a complete answer through Parliament, the people, and sup­ will be given to the increased costs of the plied the facts so that everyone will know opera house. The Government does not exactly what is happening. As I said be­ hide its concern and has at no time indi­ fore, what has the Government got to hide, cated that it was not concerned about the and why does it not give the facts, if there rapid increase in costs. is not something fishy going on? Mr. RuDDOCK: It is concerned? 148 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply

Mr. P. N. RYAN: It is, and has been, I want to say at the outset that I do not concerned. But as I propose to demons­ propose to give a detailed answer on trate to the House, we have not been neg­ increased costs. That will be done at a lectful in our administration. On the con­ later stage. This is not the appropriate trary, I shall demonstrate to bon. members occasion. Hon members will recall that that we have exhibited the utmost efficiency when this matter was mooted an expert in this regard. The Leader of the Oppo­ committee was appointed consisting of very sition laughs, but the fact that I propose reputable people in this State who have to reveal to the House is that never before given of their time freely and have made a in this State has such an array of com­ great contribution to work that already has petent expert opinion been marshalled to­ been done on this project. For the edifica­ gether and associated with a public work tion of hon. members and in order to as has been directed towards the comple­ remind them of the machinery of adminis­ tion of this project. I mention that be­ tration that has been adopted in this matter cause maladministration has been the key­ I propose to list the members of the Sydney note of the speeches of both the Leader Opera House Committee. The chairman of the Opposition and the Acting Leader of the committee is Mr. Haviland to whom of the Country Party. When one has re­ the Leader of the Opposition referred last gard to flaming headlines such as those in night. He is a very senior public servant an afternoon newspaper yesterday, in bold with an outstanding record as a public type, alleging blundering and saying, administrator. He was the Under-secretary "Government loses control of opera of the Department of LocaL Government house," and claiming that it has no power and was appointed as chairman of the or authority to let tenders and so on, and Sydney Opera House Committee in 1954. when one sees tucked in on the same page, The next member of the committee is Mr. published before the House met, a report E. W. Adams, C.B.E., recently retired as that the Liberals will be quick to move Town Clerk of Sydney. He is a highly and that a motion of urgency will be skilled civic administrator. moved for the consideration of this matter, Another member of the committee one realises that a conspiracy has been de­ is Mr. Harry Arthy, joint manag­ signed to try to obtain cheap political capi­ ing director of Berlei Ltd., a leading tal and advantage out of this great project. Sydney business man. An original mem­ The Acting Leader of the Country Party ber of the committee was Professor yesterday moved a motion of urgency for H. Ingram Ashworth, O.B.E., M.A., the establishment of a select committee to F.R.I.B.A., Dean of the Faculty of Archi­ examine all manner of things concerning tecture at the University of Sydney. Other the opera house, including matters that members are Miss Doris Fitton, O.B.E., have already been decided by this Parlia­ director of the Independent Theatre ; Mr. ment and things which he voted for him­ N. B. Freeman, C.B.E., managing director self in this Parliament. of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Pty. Ltd.; Sir Bernard Heinze, director of the State Con­ Mr. CHAFFEY: That is not true. servatorium of Music; Mr. Neil Hutchinson, Mr. P. N. RYAN: It is correct. The executive director of the Australian Eliza­ hon. member demanded that the whole bethan Trust; the Hon. J. D. Kenny, ramifications of the competition and the M.L.C., general secretary of the Trades and Labor Council ; Mr. Erik Lang­ ratification of all matters associated with ker, O.B.E., a trustee of the National the Sydney Opera House Act should be Art Gallery ; Sir Charles Moses, C.B.E., examined again by a select committee. general manager of the Australian Those things have been decided by the Broadcasting Commission; Dr. Cobden Parliament. My object this evening is Parkes, C.B.E., of the Department of briefly to refute the continued charge Architecture at the University of New against the Government of lack of South Wales and formerly Government management. Architect; Dr. Lloyd Ross, State secretary Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962] Address in Reply 149

of the Australian Railways Union ; and the Country Party. I want to establish that Dr. H. S. Wyndham, C.B.E., M.A., Ed.D., the Government has not only taken the Dip.Ed., Director-General of Education. usual care but, indeed, has taken extremely He is the State's leading educationist and an great care in the control of the design and outstanding administrator. the construction and the cost of the Sydney I mention those persons as members of Opera House. the Opera House Committee because they Mr. HuGHES: The control has not been form an integral part in the administration very effective. in this project. After the competition for a design was held-and I mention that ·there Mr. CRAWFORD: The present estimate is were some 233 entrants from thirty coun­ three times the original estimate. tries-the successful entrant was chosen. To refresh the minds of bon. members I want Mr. P. N. RYAN: Let the bon. mem­ to refer to the qualifications of Mr. Joern bers not jump to conclusions. That has Utzon, the winning architect. He is recog­ been the trouble in this matter. The con­ nised as one of Denmark's most brilliant sultants, of world stature in their profes­ sion, not only designed and planned ·this pro­ young architects. Associated with the winning architect was the firm of consult­ ject from their own resources, but they also ants that has been referred to as Messrs. engaged specialist consultants in every field Ove Arup and Partners of London. This to assist them to come to their conclusions. firm of consulting structural engineers has The mechanical engineering advisers who a world-wide reputation. The senior partner, were engaged were Messrs. Steenson and Mr. Ove Arup, C.B.E., is an engine·er of Varming, of London. The electrical engi­ neers were Messrs. Zeuthen and Sorensen. international standing, and another partner, Mr. R. S. Jenkins, is recognised as a world The acoustical consultant was a world­ wide expert. The stage equipment expert on the mathematical side of concrete shell investigations. consultant was Professor Walter Unruh, of Berlin, who is recognised as one of the Mr. AsKIN: Were there not any Aus­ world's top experts in this field. The con­ tralians who could have done the job as sulting engineer's representative in Aus­ well? tralia is Macdonald, Wagner and Priddle, of Sydney. This firm has the largest Mr. P. N. RYAN: Certainly there were civil and engineering practice in Australia Australians who could have done the job, and enjoys a reputation which cannot be but these are the people who were selected questioned. The resident architect, Mr. by the committee. They are world re­ Skipper Nielsen, from Mr. Utzon's Den­ nowned authorities. One of the principal mark office, has a reputation in his own reasons behind the selection of .these country as a brilliant young architect, and eminent leaders in their profession was the has declined offers of remunerative employ­ determination of the committee and the ment there because of his desire to remain Government that this great construction on the opera-bouse project. The resident project, unique in .the history of the world engineer, Mr. Ian MacKenzie, of New and presenting architectural and engineering Zealand, holds a master's degree in engi­ problems never before attempted, should be neering and was recruited from the staff of undertaken with every possible care to en­ sure that the winning design of Utzon Ove Arup & Partners, in London. The clerk would be translated into a reality and a of works, Mr. Wagner, is known as the structure that would not only bring renown most experienced clerk of works in Sydney. and honour to Sydney, but at the same time Mr. Roberts, clerk of works, also enjoys provide all the facilities of a modern opera a high reputation and has declined many bouse. offers of other positions in order that he I mention these matters at some length may devote his time to the opera house. because maladministration bas been the keynote of the criticism of the Leader of Mr. AsKIN: There is no mention in His the Opposition and of the Acting Leader of Excellency's speech about these matters. 150 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply

Mr. P. N. RYAN: The Leader of the Leader of the Opposition and any other Opposition might not like to hear this, but member of the Opposition to indicate how when I relate these matters to the machinery this organisation could have been improved, of administration I give the lie direct to his including •the engagement of the architect charge that the Government has not and a consultant of world standing, the attended to this matter in the most efficient opera house commit•tee, the technical ad­ way. visory panel associated with the committee, the specialist consultants that have been Mr. ASKIN: It goes beyond a question engaged to advise the consuHant and the of efficiency. It is a scandal. architect on all aspects of specialist work Mr. P. N. RYAN: The bon. member is on •the opera house. Their report to the prepared to make those remarks, but he Minister for Public Works, the construct­ says that he and his party are in favour of ing authority, and thus to the Government, the opera house. He cannot have it both is a product of a streamlined administra­ ways. tive control that defies criticism on the basis directed at it by the Leader of the Opposi­ The Leader of the Opposition interjecting, tion. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I just want to re­ Mr. H. E. JACKSON: Who are the finan­ mind the House that last night the Leader cial experts? of the Opposition was heard in relative silence and that the Minister is entitled to Mr. P. N. RYAN: Those men who are the same consideration. The comment that engaged in the various specialist aspects all this was not referred to by the Governor in the work of constructing the opera is a good comment, but the same thought house ; on the structural engineering side, was passing through my mind twenty-four Rider Hunt & Partners, quantity surveyors, hours ago when the bon. member was mak­ also a leading organisation both in Lon­ ing his speech, so that if we are going to don and Sydney, are the people responsible apply the rule to one we are going to apply for the estimates in relation to qua.p.tities it to all members of the House. No doubt involved in the structural building work. in future the standing orders should be Mr. ASKIN: Is the Minister quite happy applied along those lines. For the time about everything? being the Minister is entitled to reply to those allegations that have been made about Mr. P. N. RYAN: I am very unhappy the opera house and, indeed, to deal with about the attitude adopted by the Leader the usual subjects that normally come of the Opposition in this matter, for it is within the scope of the debate on the adop­ evident from his remarks here and from tion of the Address in Reply. other statements tha•t he has made that he Mr. P. N. RYAN: I wish not to labour wants to have a bit both ways. He wants this matter at all but to suggest that we to say, in one breath, that he is in favour should calmly analyse the situation. I am of the construction of the opera house-- endeavouring to establish that in this par­ Mr. ASKIN: At £4,800,000. ticular project we have assembled the greatest array of technical and professional Mr. P. N. RYAN: No, not at £4,800,000. experts that ·it has been possible to obtain on a project. Indeed the building of the 'Mr. AsKIN: That is what we voted for. opera house has been the special concern Mr. P. N. RYAN: The Leader of the of the Government, which has been at Opposition voted for that but he demon­ pains to see that, -from the consultant to strated at length, when rthis matter was the Government, there has been a con­ before the House, that on the basis of tinuity of co-operation between all asso­ confidential information he thought that ciated with the work. In .this way we have the cost would be about £10,000,000. demonstrated to the House and the people that we have exercised our authority in Mr. ASKIN: The Premier said that tha•t the best way possible. I challenge the was ridiculous. Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962] Address in Reply 151 Mr. P. N. RYAN: I am talking not of the Opposition and the Acting Leader of about what the Premier said, but about the Country Party in this debate on the what the Leader of the Opposition said. motion for the adoption of the Address i111 If the Leader of the Opposition wan•ts his Reply. attitude to be analysed, he must stand up to criticism. He has not been fair dinkum Mr. CRAWFORD: The Minister has not in this matter. He wants to support the said anything to change my opinion. opera house because he knows that there Mr. P. N. RYAN: The hon. member is a great public demand in this State never had an opinion to change. for this unique building which will be the greatest contribution to the cultural pro­ Mr. CRAWFORD: And the Minister has gress of this country that has ever been not said anything. built, but at the same time he wants to Mr. P. N. RYAN: The bon. member indulge in carping political criticism that never had an opinion to change. In this will weaken public confidence and if pos­ matter the attitude of the Government is sible gain for him some cheap political that we have nothing to hide. We believe advantage. I can assure the Leader of the that the increased costs involved will be Opposition that he will be disappointed accepted when they are explained. The in that regard. We know that costs have regrettable feature in this controversy that increased but we know also, as a result has developed has been the desire of some of very complete inquiry and control on people, for some reasons-mainly political these matters, that these costs can be justi­ -to cast some doubts on the wisdom of fied. There is no question of that. the decision to build the opera house and There is no doubt in the mind of the especially to embarrass the Government Government that when this matter is com­ with a charge of mismanagement of the pletely explained, even if the Leader of project. I assure the bon. member that the Opposition is not satisfied, the people of every administrative effort has been made this State will accept the fact that this to ensure the success of this difficult and building should be built and that value unique public work. No one denies that will be obtained for the money spent in its construction presents difficulties. The completing it. consultants themselves, when they accepted the task of building the opera house, knew Mr. Cox: Will the Minis-ter guarantee this and stated it. As a matter of fact, that it will not cost more than £12,500,000? it has taken them almost three years of intensive experimentation, model testing, Mr. P. N. RYAN: As I have already intimated, it is not my intention to go prototype testing and very complicated into the details of the rise in costs and the analyses of stresses and so on in relation reasons for it. We are in a position to to the stability of the superstructure, to say that today the firm estimate is arrive at a building procedure for stage two. £12,500,000. This was announced by the It has been a most difficult task. The Premier and we are confident that the pro­ opera house is not like an ordinary build­ ject will be completed within this limit. ing. The builders had nothing with which There are various reasons for the increase they could compare the work involved here ; in cost beyond £4,800,000 and these will they had to start from the ground and to be explained. Increased costs resulted from progress as they went along in their extra work and things of that character. evaluation. Mr. GRIFFITH: The Minister cannot Mr. H. E. JACKSON: It is guesswork right justify that. through. Mr. P. N. RYAN: I am not attempting Mr. P. N. RYAN: The hon. member tu justify it. That is not the purpose of says it is guesswork. my entering this debate tonight. I am concerned with the charges of maladminis­ Mr. H. E. JACKSON: Even including the tration and blundering made by the Leader value. 152 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply

Mr. P. N. RYAN: Up to a point. The Mr. H. E. JACKSON: Mr. Speaker, on a estimate was based on incomplete know­ point of order. The Minister is reading ledge of all the facts involved in its con­ from a current Hansard, and I submit that struction. is against standing orders. Mr. H. E. JACKSON: Quantity surveyors Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The Minister is work not on guesswork but on facts and quoting from what was actually said last figures. night. Mr. P. N. RYAN: They worked on the Mr. H. E. JACKSON: He is reading from knowledge available to them at the time Hansard. and their estimate was honest. At the time an estimate was given to the Government Mr. SPEAKER: Order! For greater ac­ based on the advice, given in good faith, curacy he is referring to it. I think prob­ of these people who were charged with the ably the Minister· is able to give the gist responsibility of assessing the costs. of the remarks without actually reading them. Mr. CRAWFORD: They do not even now know the cost. Mr. ASKIN: With all respect, Mr. Speaker, that is not a corrected Hansard Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I call. the hon. pull. member for Barwon to order for the first time. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the Opposition might have varied his re­ Mr. P. N. RYAN: If the hon. member marks on reflection, but at least this is what is unwilling to accept that this project is Hansard thought he said at the time and one of great complexity, never before apparently it is also what the Minister attempted, well, the hon. member must thought. accept that any engineer who thinks for a moment about the implications of the con­ Mr. AsKIN: I wish the Government struction of the opera house will agree would believe some of the remarks attri­ that it presented grave engineering buted to it. problems. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Yesterday the Mr. Dow: Has the Minister read the Leader of the Opposition spoke for almost criticism by The Bulletin? three hours and devoted much of his time to criticising the Minister's administration Mr. SPEAKER: Order! It is not question of this project. Tonight the Acting Leader time. of the Country Party also devoted consider­ Mr. P. N. RYAN: In this matter the able time to it. On both occasions there Leader of the Opposition has claimed that was very little interruption. The Minister the Government has misled the people is entitled to present his reply and I am and that he himself has been misled. sure the Opposition wants to hear it. He should be heard in silence. The Leader of the Opposition is only whistling in the dark when he alleges that Mr. P. N. RYAN: I shall not quote as a result of the investigations of a com­ from Hansard. It does not matter to me mittee of inquiry appointed by his party if the Opposition wants to amend its leader's remarks, for it does not alter the the Government was goaded into doing fact that the Liberal Party appointed a something. His party's committee found special committee of investigation. Last only what the Government already knew. night I heard the Leader of the Opposition There was nothing strange about its con­ say that this committee found that there clusions. Last night the Leader of the was a tremendous amount of experimental Opposition said: work involved in the building of ·the opera house, all of which involved increased My party appointed a committee which made a thorough investigation into the opera costs. Well, that was a profound state­ house project. ment! This fact was known several years Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962] Address in Reply 153 ago-in fact from the outset. There was to ensure that this great project, which has nothing new in this statement, nothing re­ brought to light many problems never pre­ vealing. The Leader of the Opposition viously confronted either by architects or said also that the committee consulted ex­ engineeers, would have the benefit of the perts. I do not know who they consulted ; most expert professional people in their certainly they did not consult the Govern­ fields. ment's technical advisers. That is the machinery of •administration Mr. ASKIN: They consulted the that has been established. The Leader of Minister. the Opposition asked me a question today which filled in a further part of the pattern Mr. P. N. RYAN: That is true, they of this rather obvious conspiracy entered •Came and interviewed me. I am glad the into by two political parties and an after­ .Leader of the Opposition mentioned that, noon newspaper yesterday . because the two gentlemen who called to ·see me did not seem over concerned about Mr. AsKIN: On a point of order. The the matter. All they were concerned about standing orders are explicit on the question was the cost. They said that if I could of imputing improper motives. The fact give them an assurance that there would that the Government has squandered public be proper control of expenditure they money to the extent of the difference be­ would be quite happy and they would be tween £4,800,000 and £12,500,000 does not pleased to support it. I gave them that as­ justify the Minister in imputing improper surance, and I give the House a similar motives to me. In accordance with Stand­ assurance now. It is just hoodwinking the ing Order 152, I ask that the Minister be House and the people for the Leader of directed to withdraw his remarks. the Opposition to make a serious state­ Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The use of the ment here, as part of his case against the word "conspiracy" suggests a criminal Government, that the Liberal Party com­ offence. To that extent I think it can be mittee of investigation revealed anything regarded as unparliamentary and therefore that was not already known to everybody I ask the Minister to withdraw. associated with the opera house project. In fact the action taken by the Government Mr. P. N. RYAN: I withdr·aw any im­ stems from facts as disclosed to the House plication of criminal intent. What I meant at the beginning of work on the project. to say-- The Government has experts reporting to Mr. AsKIN: Mr. Speaker, on a point of it on every aspect of the work. If this is order. not efficient control and most efficient ad­ ministration, I have never heard of effi­ Mr. SPEAKER: Order! ciency. Mr. AsKIN: I am taking •a point of order. No other public work in the history of I cannot do it while you are on your feet, New South Wales has had such special but I will take another point of order later. treatment or has had associated with it such an array of experts. To say that the Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Having asked the Government has lost control of costs, has Minister to withdraw, I propose to hear no power to direct the calling of tenders him. Until I hear what he has to say I and has no control over the consultant, is a am not having any further points of order. complete negation of the facts. No one with any knowledge of public tendering or Mr. P. N. RYAN: I withdraw and I contracting, or of negotiations with consul­ shall refer-- tants and architects would make such a Mr. AsKIN: No explanation. silly statement, for they would know that there would be no evidence to support it. Mr. P. N. RYAN: --to what are pro­ In reply to criticism about controlling the perly to be described-- administration of the opera house, let me say' that machinery has been established Mr. AsKIN: No explanation. 154 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The Minister has Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of withdrawn his remark, which is what the the Opposition is canvassing the ruling that Leader of the Opposition has asked for. I gave a few moments ago. I could see no If the Leader of the Opposition proposes qualification by the Minister to his with­ to take control out of my hands I do not drawal; none whatever. intend to let him do so. Mr. P. N. RYAN: This article re­ Mr. AsKIN: I could not do that. ferred to something in a rather sinister way Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I do not propose and was the subject of a question asked that the Leader of the Opposition should of me in the House this afternoon by the do that for a minute. He may not tell me Leader of the Opposition. It related to what attitude I am to take with the Minis­ an alleged secret report to Cabinet by the ter. The Minister has withdrawn and, as Crown Solicitor. The report was alleged to have been requested recently, and it was far as I am concerned, there the situation said that this request arose from some· ends. I ask the Minister to continue. revelation made by a committee of inquiry Mr. P. N. RYAN: It is strange that this set up by bon. members opposite. I say opera-house project, which is of interest to to the House that no such report about this. people throughout the world and will be a matter was requested of the Crown Solici­ landmark in this country, enhancing the tor by Cabin-et, and no such opinion was. standing of Australia, should be the sub­ ever submitted to Cabinet by the Crown ject of such a coincidence as happened yes­ Solicitor. This is a cheap attempt to em-· terday, when an afternoon newspaper pub­ barrass the Government by allegations that, lished a long list of allegations--completely on the admission of those who are· untrue-in the middle of which •appeared trying to do the embarrassing, ar·e not facts. a small paragraph intimating that a politi­ My purpose is to establish that, in the ad­ cal party, not the Government, would take ministration of the opera house, the Gov­ quick action when the House met yester­ ernment has set up an organisation com­ day. When the House met, prompt action posed of people of the highest standing was taken by a member of the Opposition, both here and abroad, and I invite the· completely in line with the article that Leader of the Opposition or any other bon. appeared in the press. It all adds up to a member opposite to intimate how the Gov­ most unusual coincidence, which I describe ernment could have been more efficient in as an attempt by someone to extract some its control. If the bon. member for Wol­ mean, contemptible political advantage out londilly, who is obviously enjoying the of a great national project. The Leader of spectacle of his leader's embarrassment-- the Opposition may take a point of order Me. LEWIS: I am enjoying the spectacle on that if he likes. of the Minister making a fool of himself. Mr. AsKIN: I ·always thought you were a half-wit. It is proven now. Mr. P. N. RYAN: If he is enjoying his leader's embarrassment, he is entitled to Mr. MANNIX: On a point of order. As that enjoyment, but the members of the a matter of decency, I •ask the Leader of opera house committee and of the technical the Opposition, especially in view of the advisory panel are of the highest standing office that he holds in this House, to with­ and repute. We have leading consulting draw the unparliamentary remark, which is engineers from London and other outstand­ certainly not appropriate to this Minister, ing specialist advisers of world repute. I who is obviously conversant with his sub­ would be much happier to accept the con­ ject. sidered opinions of highly regarded pro­ Mr. AsKIN: In view of the objection I, fessional people than I would be to listen to unlike the Minister for Public Works, will the bon. member's abuse and criticism of conform with the proper, recognised pro­ what has been done about the opera house. cedure and withdraw without •any of the qualification that the Minister imposed Mr. LEWIS: On a point of order. I take when he withdrew. exception to the way in which the Minister Governor's Speech: [5 SEPT., 1962] Address in Reply 155 is accusing me of abuse and criticism of Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the administration of the opera house. I the Opposition was permitted to continue have not said a word about that. his speech in silence. Tonight the Minister is replying to what was said by him, and Mr. SPEAKER: Order! What standing whether what he is saying is tedious repeti­ order is involved? This sort of thing must tion is a matter of opinion. In my opinion stop. An objection to something that is it is not tedious. I ask the Minister for said by way of fact is not a point of order Public Works to proceed. unless it is covered by the standing orders. If it is so covered, the bon. member may Mr. Dow: Oh! say so. If it is not, I point out that honest mistakes are made in this House all Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I call the bon. day long. At times I call hon. members member for Burwood to order. to order, but it is not my right to interf.ere Mr. P. N. RYAN: I listened in silence with speakers. Ron. members cannot rise to the accusations of the Leader of the under the guise of taking a point of order Opposition. I had many opportunities to to express concern and dissatisfaction with interrupt him when he was so inaccurate what a Minister or other hon. member is and so far off the beam. If the truth saying, or to express dissatisfaction with the hurts, and if the Leader of the Opposition manner in which it is said. does not like it, there is nothing I can do Mr. P. N. RYAN: If some bon. members about it. I can understand his embarrass­ rush in with rash statements, they are likely ment and lthe wishes of ·bon. members to be hurt. All this will rebound on the opposite to take points of order, but that Opposition, for they are criticising the does not alter the facts that I have estab­ opinion of experts. We have had advice lished on the control and administration of from experts, and that is the best answer this matter. I have shown clearly that the to the charges made by the Opposition. We Government has not been lax in this regard, have set up a panel of worthy experts to though the Leader of the Opposition would advise the Government on the building of very much like it if the Government had the opera house, the administration of its been lax. I can well imagine his disappoint­ finances and all the other problems involved. ment at finding no weakness in the Gov­ The charges of the Leader of the Opposi­ ernment's armour, for had he been able tion cannot embarrass the Government, to find a chink in it he would have because it knows for certain that it has been able to slip in and obtain the political behind it the cream of world opinion. advantage that he hoped to gain. The Leader of the Opposition is disappointed, Mr. Dora: On a point of order! Mr. and the Government knows that its Speaker, I wish to raise a point of order administration of this matter has been well that is definitely covered by the standing planned ; it knows that the administration orders-the standing order that deals with of the opera house is composed of people tedious repetition. I refer to the tedious upon whom it can rely. The Government repetition by the Minister of the argument makes no secret of the fact that there have that the Government is backed by the been great problems ; and we have made opinion of world experts. Ron. members no secret of the fact that we are concerned have heard him mention that argument six about the increase in cost. We have taken times ; he has mentioned nothing else for action to ensure that every item of expendi­ the past ten minutes. ture is carefully examined. The process Mr. SPEAKER: Order! We have to be of estimating and arriving at further fair. Last night the Leader of the Opposi­ estimates has been long and tedious tion spoke for two hours and forty because of the nature of the work involved ; minutes. I should say that his repetition this is work that has never before been was not tedious. attempted. Indeed, the consultant himself took three years to work out a building Mr. Dow: Sir, I am not referring to the programme for stage two which covers the Leader of the Opposition. superstructure of the opera house. Tedious 156 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply experiments have been involved, and no one that charge, I say that they were rash would expect a firm estimate to be made statements made without any appreciation unless all the facts are available. of the problem and without any attempts to obtain accurate factual knowledge of Mr. MoRTON: Would the Minister tell the situation. I know I will never convince the House how the price of £4,800,000 was the Acting Leader of the Country Party arrived at? because he has a one-track mind in this Mr. P. N. RYAN: Apparently the hon. matter, but it must be patently obvious to member for Mosman was not in the the average fair-minded citizens in the Chamber when I commenced my address. community, and indeed to the majority of I have already pointed out that this is members of this House, that the machinery properly a matter to be dealt with when of administration we have established in the amending legislation comes before the this matter is the best possible assembly House at an early date. of expert opinion that could be obtained. I wish to make this important point in con­ Mr. GRIFFITH: It was a shot in the dark. clusion-and I say this in reply to sug­ gestions in the press and suggestions made Mr. P. N. RYAN: I shall deal with that by some speakers in this debate-that the matter to the satisfaction of the House. relationship between the consultant and the Certainly estimates were made without a contracting authority or ,the client, which full knowledge of what was involved in the in this case is the Government, is the same programme. The Government, the architect relationship as exists between consultant and the consultant were not aware of all and client in any normal contract of that the factors involved in this unique struc­ character. ture. Costs have risen in many fields. The hon. member for Armidale inter- Some of the items of equipment were estimated on the basis of quotations, but jecting, when tenders were called the prices were Mr. SPEAKER: Order! much greater than the original quotations. Mr. P. N. RYAN: We are naturally-­ Those are unfortunate things, about which we are not pleased or happy. A clear and The hon. member for Burwood inter- complete explanation of those rising costs jecting, will be made. I tell the hon. member for Mosman that the Government has nothing Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Gentlemen, there whatever to hide, and that when amending arc times when I find myself continually legislation comes before the House a com­ calling to order members of the Opposi­ tion. When I ask myself why this plete analysis of the rising costs will be given. My object in speaking this is so, I examine the situation. Look evening-- at the situation yesterday, last night, today and tonight. Any fair-minded ob­ Mr. MORTON: What you have established server would realise that one side of the is that when the price of £4,800,000 was House bas been setting a commendable given, it was given inaccurately. It should example, and would see the number of not have been given. times I have had to call to order the other side, from which there has been a con­ Mr. P. N. RYAN: I cannot agree with tinuing series of interjections and inter­ that. As I told the bon. member for Mos­ ruptions. I am doing my best to be fair man, some aspects of the matter require to both sides, and this barrage of inter­ ·detailed examination. This is not the time jections must cease. The Minister has indi­ tc go into that, and I do not propose to cated that he is trying to conclude his do so. My object in speaking this even­ remarks. Let him do so, and ,the points ing was to reply to the charge of mal­ before the House will be elucidated. administration which was the keynote of the speech made by the Leader of the Mr. P. N. RYAN: The relationship be­ Opposition and was echoed by the Acting tween the consultant and the client, which is Leader of the Country Party. In reply to the Government in this case, is the normal Governor's Speech: (5 SEPT., 1962] Address in Reply 157 relationship that exists between consultant The stage lighting contract, which the and client. It does not in any way include, Leader of the Opposition is concerned about as has been suggested, any lack of auth­ and was the subject of a question by him ority or control by the client. Certainly today, has not been decided, yet the press we are influenced by and have great regard and all the other propaganda indulged in for the consultant's expert advice in the indicate that the Government has done matters that are his responsibility. How­ something improper, when, in fact, it has ever, we are not obliged to accept that not done it at all. This all adds up to a without question. Our authority in that combined attempt to discredit a great work. regard remains clear. We have the ability I almost forgot to mention that the evening to control the cost of the project and we newspaper that indulged in this propaganda have controlled it in the various machinery even went to the despicable extent of alleg­ moves we have established for the purpose. ing that the late Premier, the Hon. J. J. It has been alleged in the press and in Cahill, was blamed by somebody for this other places that we have lost control of alleged blunder. That is a regrettable thing; letting tenders. We are able to let tenders. no one in his senses would even think that The Leader of the Opposition asks, "What the late Premier, who certainly was en­ is the secrecy about the negotiated contract thusiastic about and pioneered this project, for stage two of the opera house?" There could ever be suspected in any way of is no secrecy whatever about it. That was being guilty of any blunder or insincerity in a firm recommendation of the consultant, this matter. a firm recommendation of the technical advisory panel, and a firm recom­ Mr. AsKIN: I agree with that. It was mendation of the opera house committee a Cabinet responsibility. itself. It has been examined by officers Mr. P. N. RYAN: Most certainly no of my department and by myself. Every member of the Government ever thought factor has been taken into consideration, of such a thing, yet the design to embar­ and having regard to all the circumstances rass the Government went to the low stan­ assoCiated with this-- dard of dragging his name into this matter. Mr. AsKIN: Were tenders called? It is regrettable that an ·attempt has been made to take some cheap political advan­ Mr. P. N. RYAN: The Leader of the tage of this project, which has excited the Opposition just heard me ; I said it was a interest of people throughout the world and negotiated contract. That means that will be a monument to the progress of this tenders were not called. Surely the Leader State. I make no secret of the fact that of the Opposition knows the difference be­ the Government recognises, and always has tween tenders and negotiated contracts. recognised, the problems involved in its construction. We face those problems from Mr. ASKIN: I know. They were nego­ our own knowledge, as well as from the tiated at the Hotel Metropole. knowledge that has been conveyed to us Mr. P. N. RYAN: They were not nego­ by the experts engaged in its construction. tiated at the Hotel Metropole. That is the The cost of it is greater than we expected, it is true, but we know, after careful exami­ irresponsible nonsense that you are indulg­ ing in repeatedly. I have just told the nation of all the factors, that the cost can be justified. The people of this State can House that people of world repute have recommended this procedure-the con­ be assured that though the firm final esti­ mate of £12,500,000 is great, they will be sultants-and it has been endorsed by every getting value for their money. professional and technical man who has examined the proposal. There is no secret If one compared the cost of this building about it, and we do propose to enter into with comparable buildings-if there are any that contract. We have given approval to comparable with it in the world-it would do so. The contract has not yet been be found that we 'are most certainly getting entered into, but when the terms have been real value for our money. We will have completed I believe it will be entered into. an amenity that will provide not only for 158 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY] Address in Reply opera but also for concerts, dramatic pre­ The Opposition wants to go ahead with sentations, international conferences and all the debate and is strongly opposed to the kinds of cultural organisations which can adjournment. The Minister has had his meet there. It will be a cultural centre in say and he has taken advantage of all the the true sense of the word, and will be of privileges available to members on both great benefit to the State and this country. sides of the House to ·press his case. My I am certain that when these facts are colleagues are ready to go ahead and to clearly understood and appreciated by debate the issue. This is a question which people who are sincere in their approach affects all the people of the State because to this matter they will realise that the the Premier on behalf of his Government Government has exercised efficient and has said that the project will cost at least proper control over all its construction. £12,500,000. We say that it will be When the project is completed the Govern­ £15,000,000 and I am told privately by ment and, I feel certain, members of the some Labor members that I am much below Opposition, too, will acclaim a great the mark and that the total cost will be achievement in the interests of the cultural £17,000,000 or £18,000,000. I do not neces­ development of Australia. sarily accept that figure. However, the Motion (by Mr. Renshaw) proposed: Opposition believes that this enormous figure, when we were told originally that the That this debate be now adjourned. estimated total cost would be £4,800,000--- Mr. ASKIN (Collaroy) [10.29]: I oppose Mr. MuRPHY: On a point of order. I the motion. We have lost half an hour to­ submit that the only remarks that the night as a result of your decision, Mr. Leader of the Opposition can make now Speaker, to enable certain hon. members to are on the motion for the adjournment of attend a social function. I am not able to the debate, and that he is not doing so at criticise that tonight ; I have to do that present. through the proper channels. We have just Mr. SPEAKER: I accept the point of order heard the Minister for Public Works offer raised by the hon. member for Concord. what I regard to be just an excuse for the Government, and my colleagues and I want Mr. ASKIN: I cannot take back all the to go on with the debate. I want to go words that I have spoken, but I bow to your on with the debate. The Opposition is ruling, Mr. Speaker. I shall now address ready to debate what the Minister has said myself exclusively to the motion for the and to refute the sheer humbug and hypo­ adjournment of the debate. We on this crisy of which the Minister has been guilty side of the House want to get on with the in the House tonight. We want to debate business of Parliament. It is still early in the matter now, particularly to the extent the evening-only half-past ten, and we are of a half-hour which we lost today. I say, not worried about the time. We would like with the utmost good faith, consistent with to go ahead now. The Government pro­ my respo·nsibilities, that we of the Opposi­ poses to introduce a new procedure of tion believe that the financing of the opera sitting for four weeks and getting up for house represents a bungle of the worst pos­ the fifth week and we say-and this is sible order by the Government. We believe appropriate to the motion-that we want there has never been a greater financial to get on with the business of Parliament and to deal with the various measures be­ scandal in the history of any parliament of fore the House. Some of our members this Commonwealth than this one, for which here tonight want to discuss all sorts of this Government must be held guilty. We things. hope it is just maladministration ; we hope Mr. SPEAKER: I point out to the hon. it does not become a matter of culpability, member that he has said all this before. for the sake of the Minister and his col­ Has he something new to put? leagues who might then be called upon to Mr. ASKIN: I want to make one other weigh in some of the money lost by the point. I can appreciate the motion to ad­ taxpayers on this project. journ the debate at this comparatively early Address in Reply [5 SEPT., 1962] Adjournment 159

hour, having regard to the tired, elderly Question-That the debate be adjourned _gentlemen on the Government benches. But -put. The House divided: on behalf of the youthful members of the Ayes, 49; noes, 34; majority, 15. Opposition who are ready to go ahead, I .oppose the motion. AYES Mr. Bannon Mr. Morey Mr. GRIFFITH (Cronulla) [10.34]: Mr. Bennett Mr. Murphy Mr. Booth Mr. Neilly Mr. Speaker-- Mr. Bowen Mr. Nott Mr. Cahill Mr. Quinn Mr. WYATI (Lakemba), Government Mr. Coady Mr. Renshaw Whip: I move: Mr. Compton Mr. Rigby Mr. Crabtree Mr. Robson That the question be now put. Mr. Dalton Mr. P. N. Ryan Mr. Downing Mr. T.V. Ryan The House divided: Mr. Earl Mr. Seiffert Mr. Flaherty Mr. Sheahan Ayes, 48; noes, 34; majority, 14. Mr. Fowles Mr. Simpson Mr. Greaves Mr. Sloss AYES Mr. Green Mr.Southee .Mr. Bannon Mr. Mallam Mr. Hawkins· Mr. J. J. T. Stewart Mr. Bennett Mr. Mannix Mr. Heffron Mr. K. J. Stewart Mr. Booth Mr. Morey Mr. Hills Mr. Tully Mr. Bowen Mr. Neilly Mr. Rex Jackson Mr. Walsh Mr. Cahill Mr. Quinn Mr. Kearns Mr. Wattison Mr. Coady Mr. Renshaw Mr. R. J. Kelly Mr. Wetherell Mr. Compton Mr. Robson Mr. McCartney Mr. Wyatt Mr. Crabtree Mr. P. N. Ryan Mr. McMahon Tellers, Mr. Dalton Mr. T.V. Ryan Mr. Mahoney· Mr. Ferguson Mr. Downing Mr. Seiffert Mr. Mannix Mr. Mallam Mr. Earl Mr. Sheahan Mr. Ferguson Mr. Simpson NOES Mr. Flaherty Mr. Sloss Mr. Askin Mr. H. E. Jackson Mr. Fowles Mr. Southee Mr. Jack Beale Mr.Jago Mr. Greaves Mr. J. J. T. Stewart Mr. Brain Mr. Lewis Mr. Green Mr. K. J. Stewart Mr. Brown Mr. Maddison Mr. Hawkins Mr. Tully Mr. Bruxner Mr. Morris Mr. Heffron Mr. Walsh Mr. Chaffey Mr. Morton Mr. Hills Mr. Wattison Mr. Cox Mr. O'Keefe Mr. Rex Jackson Mr. Wetherell Mr. Crawford Mr.Padman Mr. Kearns Mr. Wyatt. Mr. Cross Mr. Ruddock Mr: R. J. Kelly Mr.Doig Mr. Stephens Mr. McCartney Tellers, Mr. Fife Mr. Taylor Mr. McMahon Mr. Murphy Mr. Ford Mr. Waddy Mr. Mahoney Mr. Nott Mr. Freudenstein Mr. Weiley Mr. Griffith Mr. Willis NOES Mr. Healey Mr. Askin Mr. Jago Mr. Hearnshaw Tellers, Mr. Jack Beale Mr. Maddison Mr. Hughes Mr. Punch Mr. Brain Mr. Morris Mr. Hunter Mr. Robinson Mr. Brown Mr. Morton Question so resolved in the affirmative. Mr. Bruxner Mr. O'Keefe Mr. Chaffey Mr. Padman Motion agreed to. Mr. Cox Mr. Punch Mr. Crawford Mr. Robinson Debate adjourned. Mr. Cross Mr. Ruddock M.r. Fife Mr. Stephens Mr. Ford Mr. Taylor Mr. Freudenstein Mr. Waddy ADJOURNMENT Mr. Griffith Mr. Weiley Mr. Healey Mr. Willis Motion (by Mr. Renshaw) proposed: Mr. Hearnshaw That this House do now adjourn until to­ Mr. Hughes Tellers, morrow at 11 o'clock, a.m. Mr. Hunter Mr.Doig Mr. H. E. Jackson Mr. Lewis Mr. Cox: Mr. Speaker-­ Question so resolved in the affirmative. Mr. DoiG: Mr. Speaker-- 160 Adjournment [ASSEMBLY] Adjournment

Mr. CROSS: Mr. Speaker-- Question-That this House do now ad- journ-put. The House divided: Mr. WYAIT (Lakemba), Government Whip [10.46]: I move: Ayes, 49; noes, 34; majority, 15. That the question be now put. AYEs The House divided: Mr. Bennett Mr. Morey Mr. Bowen Mr. Murphy Ayes, 49 ; noes, 34; majority, 15. Mr. Cahill Mr. Neilly AYES Mr. Coady Mr. Nott Mr. Compton Mr. Quinn Mr. Bannon Mr. Mallam Mr. Crabtree Mr. Renshaw Mr. Bennett Mr. Mannix Mr. Dalton Mr. Rigby Mr. Booth Mr. Morey Mr. Downing Mr. Robson Mr. Bowen Mr. Murphy Mr. Earl Mr. P. N. Ryan Mr. Cahill Mr. Neilly Mr. Ferguson Mr. T. V. Ryan Mr. Coady Mr. Nott Mr. Flaherty Mr. Seiffert Mr. Compton Mr. Quinn Mr. Fowles Mr. Sheahan Mr. Crabtree Mr. Renshaw Mr. Greaves Mr. Simpson Mr. Dalton Mr. Rigby Mr. Green Mr. Sloss Mr. Downing Mr. Robson Mr. Hawkins Mr. Southee Mr. Earl Mr. P. N. Ryan Mr. Heffron Mr. J. J. T. Stewart Mr. Ferguson Mr. Seiffert Mr. Hills Mr. K. J. Stewart Mr. Flaherty Mr. Sheahan Mr. Rex Jackson Mr. Tully Mr. Fowles Mr. Simpson Mr. Kearns Mr. Walsh Mr. Greaves Mr. Sloss Mr. R. J. Kelly Mr. Wattison Mr. Green Mr. Southee Mr. McCartney Mr. Wetherell Mr. Hawkins Mr. K. J. Stewart Mr. McMahon Mr: Wyatt Mr. Heffron Mr. Tully Mr. Mahoney Tellers, Mr. Hills Mr. Walsh Mr. Mallam Mr. Bannon Mr. Rex Jackson .Mr. Wattison Mr. Mannix Mr. Booth Mr. Kearns . Mr. Wetherell . Mr. R. J. Kelly Mr. Wyatt NoES Mr. McCartney Tellers, Mr. McMahon Mr. T. V. Ryan Mr. Askin Mr. Lewis Mr. Mahoney Mr. J. J. T. Stewart Mr. Jack Beale Mr. Maddison Mr. Brain Mr. Morris NoES Mr. Brown Mr. Morton Mr. Askin Mr. Lewis Mr. Bruxner Mr. O'Keefe Mr. Jack Beale Mr. Maddison Mr. Chaffey Mr. Padman Mr. Brain Mr. Morris Mr. Crawford Mr. Punch Mr. Brown Mr. Morton Mr. Cross Mr. Robinson Mr. Bruxner Mr. O'Keefe M~. Doig Mr. Ruddock Mr. Chaffey Mr. Padman Mr. Fife Mr. Stephens Mr. Cox Mr. Punch Mr. Ford Mr. Taylor Mr. Crawford Mr. Robinson Mr. Freudenstein Mr. Waddy Mr.Doig Mr. Ruddock Mr. Healey Mr. Weiley Mr. Ford Mr. Stephens Mr. Hearnshaw Mr. Willis Mr. Freudenstein Mr. Taylor Mr. Hughes Mr. Griffith Mr. Waddy Mr. Hunter Tellers, Mr. Healey Mr. Weiley Mr. H. E. Jackson Mr. Cox Mr. Hearnshaw Mr. Willis Mr. Jago ·Mr. Griffith Mr. Hughes Question ·so resolved in the affirmative. Mr. Hunter Tellers, Mr. H. E. Jackson Mr. Cross Motion agreed to. Mr. Jago Mr. Fife House adjourned at 11.1 p.m. until 11 a.m., Question so resolved in the affirmative.· Thursday.