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Transcription Produced from Audio on the Said Proceedings and That This Is a Correct Transcript of the Same COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE PUBLIC HEARING MAJORITY CAUCUS ROOM 140 MAIN CAPITOL BUILDING HARRISBURG, PA MONDAY, JUNE 17, 2 019 10:02 A.M. PRESENTATION ON SENATE BILLS 500, 501 AND 502 TO EXPAND THE JUSTICE REINVESTMENT INITIATIVE BEFORE: HONORABLE ROB KAUFFMAN, MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HONORABLE TIM BRIGGS, MINORITY CHAIRMAN HONORABLE SHERYL DELOZIER HONORABLE MATTHEW DOWLING HONORABLE TORREN ECKER HONORABLE JOHNATHAN HERSHEY HONORABLE BARRY JOZWIAK HONORABLE JERRY KNOWLES HONORABLE PAUL SCHEMEL HONORABLE TODD STEPHENS HONORABLE JESSE TOPPER HONORABLE JUSTIN WALSH HONORABLE RYAN BIZZARRO HONORABLE GERALD MULLERY HONORABLE CHRIS RABB HONORABLE MELISSA SHUSTERMAN HONORABLE MIKE ZABEL 2 COMMITTEE STAFF PRESENT: THOMAS DYMEK REPUBLICAN EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIKE FINK RESEARCH ANALYST ELANA MAYNARD MAJORITY LEGISLATIVE ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT II TIM CLAWGES DEMOCRATIC EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR * * * * * Pennsylvania House Of Representatives Commonwealth of Pennsylvania 3 INDEX TESTIFIERS * * * NAME PAGE JOHN E. WETZEL SECRETARY, PENNSYLVANIA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS.... 7 KIRSTEN KENYON DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF RESEARCH, EVALUATION AND STRATEGIC POLICY DEVELOPMENT PENNSYLVANIA COMMISSION ON CRIME AND DELINQUENCY.... 18 HONORABLE FRANCIS T. CHARDO DAUPHIN COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY PENNSYLVANIA DISTRICT ATTORNEYS ASSOCIATION......... 2 3 MARK H. BERGSTROM EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PENNSYLVANIA COMMISSION ON SENTENCING............... 30 GREG ROWE DIRECTOR OF LEGISLATION AND POLICY, PENNSYLVANIA DISTRICT ATTORNEYS ASSOCIATION......... 46 APRIL BILLET-BARCLAY DIRECTOR, PROBATION SERVICES IN YORK COUNTY VICE PRESIDENT, COUNTY CHIEF ADULT PROBATION AND PAROLE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION OF PENNSYLVANIA..... 61 ANNA MCCAUSLIN DEPUTY STATE DIRECTOR, AMERICANS FOR PROSPERITY - PENNSYLVANIA............. 71 NATHAN BENEFIELD VICE PRESIDENT AND COO, COMMONWEALTH FOUNDATION..... 74 JESSICA BARNETT MANAGER OF POLICY RESEARCH AND EDITING, COMMONWEALTH FOUNDATION.............................. 77 JIM FOX BOARD MEMBER, PENNSYLVANIA BOARD OF PROBATION AND PAROLE.......... 95 4 1 5 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 * * * 3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN KAUFFMAN: But you all know I 4 like to get started on time, so with that I ’m going to call 5 this hearing of the House Judiciary Committee to order. 6 And first things first, we haven’t Been on the 7 House floor yet, so if we could all rise for the Pledge of 8 Allegiance. 9 (The Pledge of Allegiance was recited.) 10 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN KAUFFMAN: All right. And if 11 the Secretary would call the roll getting started out here 12 today. 13 (Roll Call.) 14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN KAUFFMAN: Thank you very much. 15 And with that we will get started. 16 This is an important hearing today and a very 17 robust agenda, so I do want to keep things moving along 18 today. But this is an important puBlic policy discussion 19 that needs to Be had and we are in possession of -- the 20 House Judiciary Committee is in possession of three bills 21 that are Being discussed this morning. 22 And so I’m excited to hear the testimony of all 23 those involved, the stakeholders from various perspectives 24 because, as we know, this is a deliBerative process where 25 we want to get the absolute Best product to get done for 6 1 all the people of Pennsylvania. 2 And so I want to recognize the Minority Chairman, 3 Representative Briggs, if he has any comments to start out 4 with. 5 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRIGGS: No. I just want to 6 thank the Chairman for having this discussion in June. 7 Just looking at the agenda right now, it does look like a 8 robust group, and it'll be great to listen to their 9 concerns. 10 Thanks. 11 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN KAUFFMAN: All right. In 12 getting started out today, the Secretary, he is his own 13 panel. And so -­ 14 JOHN WETZEL: That's not a weight joke, is it? 15 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN KAUFFMAN: Yeah, no, that was 16 not, aBsolutely not. I would never do that to you, John. 17 JOHN WETZEL: Sure. Sure. 18 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN KAUFFMAN: The Secretary and I, 19 we go Back. Of course, the Secretary started out in 20 Franklin County here. So I do have an affinity for the 21 Secretary and the great work he's done here in the 22 Commonwealth, and he is a leader here and around the 23 nation. 24 So, Mr. Secretary, we'll get started with you, 25 and I'm sure there will Be lots of questions and 7 1 conversation here this morning. 2 Thank you. 3 JOHN WETZEL: Okay. Well, thanks for having me, 4 and I appreciate you having a hearing on this. I think, to 5 your point, I think this is really important puBlic policy 6 and really should Be vetted in this manner. 7 I suBmitted testimony. But for folks who aren’t 8 familiar with justice reinvestment, just let me Briefly 9 just touch on the process Because I think that the thing 10 that the memBers need to understand is that this is a 11 product of a process that had every stakeholder around the 12 taBle, from district attorneys, law enforcement, victims, 13 county judges, county probation, puBlic defenders, 14 everyBody around the taBle, wrestling with what's the best 15 policy given the changing nature of the population coming 16 into the criminal justice system. 17 And some of the Big takeaways here are that we 18 get our Best Bang for our Buck in the criminal justice 19 continuum from county proBation and parole. And this 20 really seeks to significantly invest in county proBation 21 and parole. 22 And certainly there's Been a lot of hearings 23 in -- with this Body, around the opioid epidemic. And one 24 of the consistent things I've heard is that we can't 25 incarcerate our way out of this. 8 1 And one of the key mechanisms -- Because drugs 2 are illegal, people are going to get arrested. And one of 3 the keys that we found throughout this process is that when 4 folks are put on county intermediate punishment, we get our 5 Best outcomes. So we get lower future re-arrests. We get 6 people off drugs. And we keep them in the community so 7 they are contributing. They are taxpayers. They keep 8 their joBs. Their kids aren’t going into foster care. 9 And so this really seeks to really Bolster that. 10 I mean, just at the Department, we've seen a douBling in 11 the amount of people coming in addicted to opioids. This 12 is a significant issue. 13 So to do that we really, I think, cautiously 14 targeted folks who would Benefit from treatment, and 15 especially expanding state intermediate punishment which is 16 a key component of this. 17 Understand that where that came from is -- and I 18 don't want to speak for the district attorneys, but there's 19 a lot of folks who come in county jails a Bunch of times, 20 six, seven, eight times, not necessarily for violent 21 offenses but they've exhausted every program at the state 22 level. 23 And what we know about the state intermediate 24 punishment program is it reduces future criminality. But 25 Because it was so complicated to assign people, it was only 9 1 used about 2 6 percent of the time. And the context of that 2 is that lower re-arrest rate, lower recidivism rate. 3 So this allows us to get those folks in program, 4 addresses criminogenic needs, who have exhausted all the 5 remedies at the county, while at the same time Building out 6 the infrastructure in the county By really funding county 7 proBation and parole. 8 So I think that’s kind of the context of this 9 process that started three or four years ago now. And I ’d 10 Be happy to answer any questions. 11 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN KAUFFMAN: I ’m actually 12 surprised. You left everyone speechless. 13 Mr. Secretary, mayBe as we move forward, if you 14 could mayBe speak to the individual bills just so that 15 the -- Because my guess is that possiBly the Committee 16 hasn’t had a chance to actually review the text of the 17 legislation. And mayBe you could just give a review of 18 these three pieces of legislation, not to put you on the 19 spot, Mr. Secretary, but -­ 20 JOHN WETZEL: It’s okay. I ’ve got Backup notes 21 with me. 22 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN KAUFFMAN: All right. I 23 figured. You always come prepared. 24 JOHN WETZEL: So, By numBer I proBaBly am not the 25 best person to do it. I know it’s Senate Bill 500, 501 and 10 1 502. Let me talk about the corrections component of it and 2 what it really does. 3 There's a component that creates a group of 4 individuals who -- the minimum sentence is two years or 5 less, who are eligible for presumptive parole. Now 6 excluded from that group are people who have committed a 7 violent offense. 8 And also, as a result of some work with Senator 9 Langerholc's, in the Senate last term, eliminates some of 10 the drug kingpin levels, so level three drug dealers are 11 excluded from that. 12 What's interesting about that group is that we 13 looked at 2014. There was a group. They spent on average 14 5.3 months Beyond their minimum sentence. And when you 15 look at recidivism, there's no value added. So they 16 weren't any less likely to commit recidivism, those who got 17 out at their minimum. 18 So this is a group that really makes a lot of 19 sense to target.
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