Kessedhek rag Henwyn Tyller ha Arwodhyow Place-name and Signage Panel
Dydh / Date: 15 mis Ebrel, 2016 / 15 April 2016, 10am. Le / Venue: Stevel/Room 2N:06, Lys Kernow / County Hall, Truru / Truro.
AGENDA / ROL NEGYS
1. Diharasow / Apologies
2. Kovnotyansow / Minutes
3. Materow ow sordya / Matters arising
4. Materow Ughella / Strategic Issues
5. Arwodhow yn stret / Street signs Outstanding translations
6. Geryow rag Gerlyver / Words for Dictionary Paper from Jan Emondson
7. Henwyn leow / Place names a) Proposed Change to Parish Names Policy – See Paper from Ken George b) Referrals to Research Panel c) Misc Names Raised since last meeting d) Redruth Names e) Intermediate Names
8. Negys aral / Any Other Business
9. Dydh an kuntelles nessa / Date of Next Meeting – 20/05/2016
Paperow a vern / Background papers Kovnotyansow kuntelles a veu synsys 18/03/2016 Minutes of the meeting held 18/03/2016 – Previously circulated Rol Henwyn Stret Gesys – Update to be circulated. Rol Geryow rag Gerlyver – To be circilated Parish Names Policy – Paper to be circulated.
Ober A-dheu / Future Work Finish Parishes St Keverne
KESKOWETHYANS AN TAVES KERNEWEK CORNISH LANGUAGE PARTNERSHIP
KESSEDHEK ARWODHYOW HA HENWYN-TYLLER SIGNAGE AND PLACENAME PANEL
Kovnotyansow an kuntelles synsys: dy’Gwener 15ves mis Ebrel 2016 Draft Minutes of the meeting held: Friday 15th April 2016
Present: N Meek (Chair), K George, J Edmondson, P Hodge
In attendance: S Rogerson
# Item Action
1. Diharesow / Apologies
J Holmes, R Lyon, L Jenkin
There was a suggestion to offer members the option to attend meetings by Skype. NM
2. Kovnotyansow / Minutes
The minutes of the meeting on Friday 18th March 2016 were read and agreed.
3. Materow ow sordya / Matters arising
Kerrow Moor (settlement) = Hal Kerrow
Kerrow Moor was brought back to the panel to discuss separating the elements where previous policy would be to make the settlement a closed compound, which would cause mutation of Kerrow.
In both signage and place-name policies, place- names are not mutated after feminine generics. If it
is the moor of Kerrow (separated) as Hal Kerrow it
would not mutate. If it is a place-name (closed) it does have mutation – Halgerrow.
There was agreement to review the policy on
mutation after feminine generics in much greater detail. It was decided to ask the Akademi Kernewek Research Panel if they had any information which KG
could assist, particularly in regard to inspecting Welsh
and Breton cases.
Grugwith (St Keverne) = Krugwydh
Meaning krug (barrow) + gwydh (trees). In the
provisional etymology, there was a request to remove
‘hill’ as a meaning of krug.
The change from OC cruc (977) to grog (1332) was noted.
Grougath Downs = Goon Grugwydh
Three Brothers of Crugith = An Tri Broder a
Grugwydh
Trefgrued = Tregrugwydh
Grogley (St Breock) = An Grugel
As noted with Grugwith (St Keverne) above, the
change from krug > grog is found in Grogoed 1332.
Most of the historical forms are fairly recent, but a
16th century form le Grogill marshes shows the
French definite article (le); this provides a defensible reason to use an ‘the’ and if feminine, would suggest a mutation from k>g.
Welsh <-yl> and Breton <–el> are diminutive suffixes.
Lawellan/Lawellen (Withiel) = Nans an Velin
The translation An Velin was approved by the panel on 21/08/2015. This was brought back for reconsideration after identifying a ‘Mill Vale’ in Withiel parish, this suggested it could be nans and subject to
n>l alteration. The panel approved the change to
Nans an Velin.
Levellan Bridge = Pons Nans an Velin
Lavellan River = Dowr Nans an Velin
2 Withiel (Withiel) [settlement] = Gwydhyel
Originally translated using the 1692 form Eglos- Withiel on 20/07/2012 as Egloswydhyel.
1888 OS map shows Withiel Church as St Uvel’s Church, this was thought to be a mistake with St Eval nearby.
The historical, ecclesiastical and civil parishes are all the same here.
According to the policy on class 2 parishes, the translation should follow the saint. According to the Church of England, Clement is the registered saint for KG Withiel. This part of the Policy is currently being re- researched.
Eglos was found as a qualifier in the 1384 form (Withiel church) possibly a shortening of Treveglos.
Withiel (settlement) = Gwydhyel Civil parish = Pluw Wydhyel
There are not many examples of pluw mutation in
Cornwall (Pluwgolon, Pluwvaugan, Pluwgolom), but it
is an abundant feature in Brittany.
The Policy should show that mutation does take place NM after
Gwenter (settlement) (Saint Keverne) = Gwynstir
At meeting on 16/01/2015 it was determined that Gwenter = Gwynstir. However, recently this interpretation has been questioned and it has been referred back to the panel for review.
There was no evidence of mutation in any of the historical forms; it would be highly unlikely to consistently miss a mutation.
Suggestions were between gwynn ‘white, fair’ and gwyns ‘wind’.
It was considered that the “t” in historic forms and in the current map form was the vestige of OC
Great Gwenter = Gwynstir Veur
3 Little Gwinter = Gwynstir Vyghan
Nanteague (St Allan) = Nansteg
4. Materow Ughella / Strategic Issues
None
5. Arwodhow yn stret / Street signs
Copper Row, Wadebridge = Rew Kobrek
Kober does not necessarily need to refer to the metal/mining; it could be referring to the colour.
This name does infer copper [beech], but is not shown in the English form. Rew Kobrek, adjectival form, ‘coppery’ suggested alternative.
Wicket Way, Blackwater = Hyns an Len
In reference to the cricket field being built on at this development. Wicket can mean several things in English, likely to mean the area of play. Semantically it meant a ‘small gate’, where the wickets were, probably not just referencing the stumps.
Suggestions included respelling ‘wicket’ with
Bellier’s Close (St Ives) = Kew Bellier
Unusually the English form includes an apostrophe, but was left unmutated as it was uncertain whether it is a personal name. The tithe apportionment shows a tenement named ‘Belliers’.
Pendragon Close (Liskeard) = Kew Benndragon
Choice between
If this meant an individual dragon, it would not
4 mutate. Like Penn-tarow from Bewnans Meriasek, it is not a closed compound; emphasis falls on the first syllable.
Pentrevah Road (Penwithick) = Fordh Penntrevow
On the basis that it was Penntrevow ‘chief homestead’, Penndrevow would be ‘end of the farmsteads’. This may be a remnant of a place name Pentrevow*, but there was no known place with the same name. It looks to be a constructed name.
6. Geryow rag Gerlyver / Words for Dictionary
A report was being prepared for the dictionary suggestions JE already agreed. Trelath + -va, -an to be considered for a cricket vocabulary. Krugwydh is a compound for addition onto the list of suggestions.
7. Henwyn leow / Place-names
c. Misc Names Raised since last meeting
Zawn Kelly (St Levan) = Sawen Kellys
The panel were asked to confirm that they were happy sawen ‘plunging cliff chasm’ was feminine. The Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru was expected to list the element to confirm the gender.
Kellys ‘lost’ can be found in the forms shown in the historical forms, although it would be expected with a
Suggest to the dictionary board to show that the gender is uncertain. Either follow the historical form and not mutate or correct to the likely gender.
Because some historical ‘zawn’ forms are feminine, this is the likely gender and the non- mutated forms are corrupted; examples found in Padel ’85. Otherwise, there is evidence for both genders and it is impossible to determine.
5 Treskellan (House Name) = Obscure
Two Trekelland names in Lewannick and Lezant both unmutated.
St Endellion name only has recent attestation. d. Redruth Names
Buckett’s Tenement (Redruth) = Bargen-tir Buckett
Name of unknown origin, may be Cornish.
Wheal Bucketts = Hwel Buckett
Croft Cupboard (Redruth) = Kroft Cabbard
Taken from the 1841 field name. May be ‘cupboard’ or the family name; unknown origin.
Duncef’s Tenements & Higher Wood Croft (Redruth) = Bargen-tir Duncalfe ha Kroft Koos Wartha
May be English calf, apostrophe suggests a personal name.
Gweelzemeer (Redruth) = Gwels Meur
Gwealzealmeer (1861 census) found as an alternative spelling, likely to be an aberration.
Pollard’s Tenement (Redruth) = Bargen-tir Pollard
Queried whether there was also a Cornish personal name root.
No mention of this name in the military survey. Majority of personal names in Cornwall probably come from English derivation. If this were Cornish, the –ard suffix does not correspond.
1699 Gascoyne map may have been influenced by English in Wendron parish, and not an original Cornish place-name. A pool is present at this location, which would support the poll ‘pool’ + ardh ‘high place’, but the recorded form supports the English name.
Pollard (surname) = Pollard
6
Pollard’s Tenement (Redruth) = Bargen-tir Pollard
Pollard’s Kroft (unknown) = Kroft Pollard
Pollard’s Tenement (Ladock) = Bargen-tir Pollard
Pollard’s Tenement (Perranuthnoe) = Bargen- tir Pollard
Pollards (Stratton) = Pollard
Pollard (Wendron) = Pollard
8. Negys aral / Any Other Business
None
9. Dydh an kuntelles nessa / Date of next meeting
Friday 20th May 2016, 10am, 2N:06, NCH
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