Thursday Volume 501 26 November 2009 No. 6

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Thursday 26 November 2009

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David Taylor: Perhaps that answer reflects the £350 House of Commons million pension board deficit in the priests’ retirement fund and the consequent need to raise the retirement Thursday 26 November 2009 age to 68. Can my hon. Friend say whether, taking into account deaths and future retirements, the overall trend is for a falling number of stipendiary priests and whether The House met at half-past Ten o’clock that is balanced out by an increase in the number of non-stipendiaries?

PRAYERS Sir Stuart Bell: As my hon. Friend will know, as with every other final salary pension scheme the cost of the clergy pension scheme has increased significantly over [MR.SPEAKER in the Chair] the past decade because of increased life expectancy, lower investment returns and increased regulation. The BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS Church is committed, however, to ensuring that its clergy receive an adequate income in retirement. LEEDS CITY COUNCIL BILL AND READING BOROUGH On the second part of my hon. Friend’s question, it is COUNCIL BILL a fact that deaths and retirements mean that the overall Ordered, number of stipendiary priests has been falling. However, I remind the House of two things: first, the Church is That the promoters of the Leeds City Council Bill and Reading Borough Council Bill, which were originally introduced in this immensely well served by thousands of non-stipendiary House in the Session 2007-08 on 22 January 2008, should have clergy; and secondly, it is doing some very good work leave to proceed with the bills in the current Session according with vocation events to help people, especially younger to the provisions of Standing Order 188B (Revival of bills). people, to explore their calling. —(The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.) Robert Key (Salisbury) (Con): Please can the hon. SESSIONAL RETURNS Gentleman tell us how many professional statisticians Ordered, are employed by the Church of England at Church That there be laid before this House Returns for Session House and by the Church Commissioners? 2008-09 of information and statistics relating to: (1) Business of the House; Sir Stuart Bell: I am certainly aware of one statistician who gives me excellent advice. If there are others within (2) Closure of Debate, Proposal of Question and Allocation of Time (including Programme Motions); the recesses of Church House, I will be happy to search them out and give the hon. Gentleman a written response. (3) Sittings of the House; (4) Private Bills and Private Business; Sir Patrick Cormack (South Staffordshire) (Con): As (5) Public Bills; so many parishes, including my own, are dependent on (6) Delegated Legislation and Legislative Reform Orders; retired clergy for keeping their services going, is there (7) European Legislation, etc; not a lot to be said for raising the retirement limit and (8) Grand Committees; allowing clergy to serve in full post until they are 75? (9) Chairmen’s Panel; and Sir Stuart Bell: The hon. Gentleman makes a very (10) Select Committees.—(The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.) interesting point, to which at this time I have no answer. However, it is certainly a problem that the Church would like to consider, because we need to deal with it. His suggestion is welcome and I will check it out for Oral Answers to Questions him. Stipendiary Priests

CHURCH COMMISSIONERS 3. Miss Anne McIntosh (Vale of York) (Con): What the average number of churches is in a rural parish which is in the charge of a stipendiary priest. [301667] The hon. Member for Middlesbrough, representing the Church Commissioners, was asked— Sir Stuart Bell: We do not keep records of which parishes are rural and which are not. However, I know Parish Priests from the latest edition of “Church Statistics”—the hon. Member for Salisbury (Robert Key) will be very aware 1. David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): of this—that there are, on average, 2.1 churches to a How many parish priests in England are expected to benefice, with figures ranging from 1.3 churches per reach retirement age in each year up to 2015. [301665] benefice in Portsmouth diocese to 3.6 churches per benefice in Hereford diocese. The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Stuart Bell): I expect the numbers of retirements of parish Miss McIntosh: Taking that with the hon. Gentleman’s priests between now and 2015 to be as follows: 224 in answer to the hon. Member for North-West Leicestershire 2010, 304 in 2011, 336 in 2012, 310 in 2013, 313 in 2014, (David Taylor), it appears that more parishes are going and 278 in 2015. to be covered by the same stipendiary priests. I know 661 Oral Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 662 that the Second Church Estates Commissioner has visited media, and he refers to his own bishop’s visit. There Teesdale, where I was brought up, and parishes in have recently been killings of Christians in Gojra and North Yorkshire are very similar. Parish priests are tensions in Nigeria, and they are matters of great concern being extremely hard pressed. What can he do to make to the Church. The Archbishop of Canterbury has led their lives a little easier in getting around to administer the response, corresponding with the Pakistani Church to parishes? and Government, and a delegation led by the Bishop of Bradford will meet Ministers and visit Gojra next month. Sir Stuart Bell: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for The idea that we ought to draw the media’s attention to reminding us of our last exchange, when I mentioned the matter more is positive. my visit to Teesdale churches. She asks about stipendiary priests, but I should point out that the Church is also Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): In the past I well served by many thousands of others, including have travelled to Pakistan and Nigeria with that excellent non-stipendiary ministers, chaplains and retired clergy. organisation, Christian Solidarity Worldwide, and I Taking that into account, at the end of 2007 more than must tell my hon. Friend how important Christians 20,000 ministers were licensed by Church of England abroad view the Anglican Church in this country as dioceses—that is one minister for every 2,500 people in being and how much they look to it for leadership. England. Is not that a remarkable fact, Mr. Speaker? Anything that can be done to increase the budget and our representation in those countries to ensure that they Mrs. Ann Cryer (Keighley) (Lab): I thank my hon. are listened to is vital. Friend for the information regarding stipendiary and non-stipendiary priests. Does he have a precise figure Sir Stuart Bell: My hon. Friend again draws the for how many non-stipendiary priests there are in the attention of the House and the wider world to the Church of England—and may I pay tribute to them? excellent work that the Church does in difficult My second late husband, John Hammersley, spent his circumstances. He mentions funding, and although the last four years of working as a Church of England vicar Church Commissioners do not fund that particular in the Oxford diocese training and preparing for ordination work, the Church none the less applies significant resources as a non-stipendiary priest, and he was terribly impressed to it through various budgets, including the expenses by their abilities. budgets of its officers, bishops and archbishops. Clearly, such work takes much time and involves significant Sir Stuart Bell: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for travel and other costs, as he is aware, but it is vital work referring to the good work that the non-stipendiaries do and it is vital that the House is aware of it. and how much that work is appreciated in the Church. In response also to the earlier question from the hon. Member for South Staffordshire (Sir Patrick Cormack), the clergy work load is always under review and it is ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE part of the bishops’ pastoral care for the clergy. My hon. Friend’s point is very well made. The hon. Member for South-West Devon, representing Christian Minorities Abroad the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission, was asked— 4. Mr. Andrew Pelling (Croydon, Central) (Ind): Whether the Church of England allocates funding for Spending Limits (General Elections) the purposes of assisting persecuted Christian minorities abroad. [301668] 5. Mr. Graham Allen (Nottingham, North) (Lab): What recent consideration the Electoral Commission Sir Stuart Bell: Supporting persecuted groups, whether has given to the current limits on expenditure by Christian or not, is an integral part of the Church’s candidates in general elections; and if he will make a work at all levels. Centrally, funds are not separately statement. [301669] allocated for that work, but I can assure the hon. Gentleman and the House that the officers and advisers Mr. Gary Streeter (South-West Devon): The Political of the Archbishops Council, together with bishops, Parties and Elections Act 2009 has introduced significant dioceses and the officers of the archbishops, provide changes to the limits on candidates’ spending, including substantial and continuing support to persecuted Christians for the first time the concept of a long campaign period abroad. during which their spending is regulated. The Electoral Commission issued briefings on the proposals while the Mr. Pelling: I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman Bill was before Parliament, which are available in the for that positive answer. I know that my own Bishop of Library and on the commission’s website. Croydon spoke at the international interfaith conference in Kazakhstan a year ago on this matter. Does the hon. Mr. Allen: The monopoly of political power between Gentleman feel that it is appropriate for the Church to the Government and the media threatens not only this do its very best to draw the attention of the media and place but the grass roots of our politics. Many of us of Her Majesty’s Government to the persecution of Christians, all parties know the decline in the membership and for example in northern Iraq and in Orissa? activity of local parties. Will the hon. Gentleman make it his aim to extend the ability of the grass roots of our Sir Stuart Bell: The hon. Gentleman is certainly right parties to thrive, not least by raising the amount that about the work that the Church does, which does not Members of Parliament can spend on their campaigns get adequate media attention in the age of the 24-hour locally rather than at national level? 663 Oral Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 664

Mr. Streeter: The hon. Gentleman makes an important PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMISSION point, and he has campaigned diligently on the issue over the years. However, as the House has recently The Chairman of the Public Accounts Commission was considered the matter in some depth as the 2009 Act asked— went through, the Electoral Commission is not currently examining it and sees no opportunity for a review of National Audit Office candidates’ spending before the next general election. 7. John Robertson (Glasgow, North-West) (Lab): Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) Whether the Public Accounts Commission has (LD): One of the challenges for the Electoral Commission discussed with the Comptroller and Auditor General in trying to have a long-term limit on expenditure is not the prospects for cost savings at the National Audit knowing when the general election will be. Has the Office. [301671] commission made any representations on, or study of, the benefits of a fixed-term Parliament to making electoral Mr. Austin Mitchell: I have been asked to reply on expenditure more predictable? behalf of the Public Accounts Commission, which took evidence on 20 October on the National Audit Office’s Mr. Streeter: Not as far as I am aware, but I will of strategy for 2010-11 to 2012-13. The NAO proposed course pass on the hon. Gentleman’s comments to the that its net resource requirement, which was £79.3 million Electoral Commission. in 2009-10, should remain at that figure for 2010-11, and the commission agreed. The NAO is also committed to cost reductions that will reduce corporate costs by 5 per cent. per year, while streamlined processes and CHURCH COMMISSIONERS better use of staff resources will reduce the cost of front-line audit and assurance work by 2 per cent.

The hon. Member for Middlesbrough, representing the John Robertson: I thank my hon. Friend for his Church Commissioners, was asked— answer. He will agree that that came out of an evidence Grant Applications session; no one sat down at a table and talked about cost reductions in general. Will he relay the fact that the House would like those gentlemen and ladies to sit 6. Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con): Whether the down, talk and work out how they can save on costs? Church Commissioners provide guidance to parishes However, that should be done amicably and everyone and cathedrals on making applications for grants from should have an equal place at the table. Departments, national lottery funds and charitable bodies. [301670] Mr. Mitchell: The NAO reports regularly to the commission on how it proposes to make savings, and we The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Stuart work on a ratio of £10 in Government spending saved Bell): As I told the House on 23 October 2008, Official for every £1 spent. So far it has been agreed that cost Report, column 449, the Church provides such advice savings will be achieved by reducing expenditure on via the Churchcare and Parish Resources websites. In non-essential, back-office functions, using in-house resources addition, the lottery providers give specific advice on rather than consultants wherever possible, and introducing their own schemes via their websites. a standard analytical framework for value-for-money work to use staff resources better. The NAO intends to Michael Fabricant: The hon. Gentleman will know ensure that quality is maintained through its internal that cathedrals, including Lichfield cathedral, have made and external quality control processes. We, at the several applications to people at, for example, the Heritage commission, will be keeping a close eye on that. Lottery Fund, and have often been successful, but when they are unsuccessful it has cost the cathedrals tens of thousands of pounds. Large applications have to be made and decided upon down in London. Surely, there ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE is an argument for the Commissioners, who are based in London, to have a relationship with the Heritage Lottery Fund, so that they can advise cathedrals around the The hon. Member for South-West Devon, representing country. the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission, was asked— Sir Stuart Bell: The hon. Gentleman makes an important Vote Counting (General Elections) point and has highlighted an important paradox: cathedrals have never been in better condition, nor better cared for, 8. Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby) (Con): What but might soon be at risk if they cannot carry out their representations the Electoral Commission has received planned repairs. In relation to the specific point, he will on the timetable for the counting of votes at general recall that we had an exchange about Lichfield cathedral’s elections. [301672] application to the Heritage Lottery Fund for funding for a scheme to improve visitor facilities. Colleagues at Mr. Gary Streeter (South-West Devon): The Electoral Church House supported the application, but unfortunately Commission has received several representations about a ballot was held in which Lichfield cathedral was the timing of counts at the forthcoming UK parliamentary unsuccessful. However, his point about the centrality general election. The issue has also been discussed at was well made, and I shall take it back to Church recent meetings between the commission and individual House. Members of Parliament and with representatives of the 665 Oral Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 666

BBC. The commission has written to all returning officers Let me emphasise that all cases alleging assisted asking for information about when they intend to begin suicide are assessed on their facts and merits. counting in the general election. As of 13 November 2009, it had received responses from 429 out of Mr. Harper: I am grateful for that answer. One of the 650 constituencies, of which 225 will begin their count things that concerns me about the DPP’s interim guidance on polling day and 48 the day after. Some 156 were is that serious disability is one of the factors that he will undecided. Details of responses received by constituency consider in assessing whether a prosecution is not in the are available on the commission’s website. public interest. I wonder about the message that that sends out to people with a disability about the extent to Mr. Robathan: I am grateful for that response and which we want a society that helps them live independently glad that the Electoral Commission is considering the and gives them a good quality of life rather than matter carefully. The truth is that Parliament and politics encourages them to take their own lives. are less popular and of less interest than they used to be. If we are to forgo the count on the evening of The Solicitor-General: I cannot for one minute think polling day, people will not even have a Government the that any innuendo of that kind could be appropriately next day. We must have a count as soon as possible drawn. The court asked the DPP effectively to list, as a afterwards, and I hope that my hon. Friend will take policy, all the factors that were capable of being taken that as a representation. into account. That is as far as the reference to disability goes. It would probably be odd to leave out disability Mr. Streeter: I do receive that as a representation. My caused by, for example, life-limiting illness in a case of hon. Friend knows that returning officers, whose role is someone assisting a suicide. The cases are complex and independent in statute, make the final decision about sensitive, but no innuendo such as that suggested by the when a count is held. The Electoral Commission’s foremost hon. Gentleman could possibly be drawn. The DPP is concern is that the count be accurate and the voters consulting publicly to try to get every factor and to have confidence in the result, but my hon. Friend’s balance them. As the hon. Gentleman well knows, it representations are certainly well received. was not the DPP’s wish to produce any guidelines. Let me emphasise again that each such case, when it arises, Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): It will be considered carefully on its merits. is extremely rare that I find myself in agreement with the hon. Member for Blaby (Mr. Robathan), but he refers to part of the tradition of our system. Although Rob Marris (Wolverhampton, South-West) (Lab): The it is impractical in a handful of constituencies, will the Judicial Committee in the House of Lords put the DPP hon. Member for South-West Devon (Mr. Streeter) in an invidious position in asking him to declare the law. press the Electoral Commission to encourage returning That is a matter for Parliament, not the DPP. Do the officers to hold counts on the night of the election? Government have any plans in the near future to revisit section 2 of the Suicide Act 1961? Mr. Streeter: The Electoral Commission does not look to influence the decision of returning officers, and The Solicitor-General: No, we do not. My hon. Friend the hon. Gentleman knows that the requirement to is right that the law has not been changed. check signatures and dates of birth on postal voting statements accompanying postal ballot papers is the Bribery Bill issue that has arisen about the forthcoming general election. Naturally, the commission will look at the 12. John Barrett (Edinburgh, West) (LD): What outcome of the next general election and the processes, recent discussions she has had with the Attorney- and make appropriate representations after that. General on the implications of the proposed Bribery Bill for the role of the Attorney-General. [301676]

SOLICITOR-GENERAL 13. Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) (LD): What recent discussions she has had with the Attorney-General on the implications of the proposed Bribery Bill for the role of the Attorney-General. [301678] The Solicitor-General was asked— Assisted Suicide The Solicitor-General: The Bribery Bill will no longer require the consent of the Attorney-General or the 11. Mr. Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con): What Solicitor-General before a prosecution for an offence discussions she has had with the Director of Public under the measure can start. Instead, it will require the Prosecutions on his interim policy for prosecutors on consent of the director of the relevant prosecuting assisted suicide. [301675] authority. The Bill does not alter the role of the Attorney- General in any other way. The Solicitor-General (Vera Baird): After the House of Lords required the DPP to produce his interim John Barrett: I thank the Solicitor-General for that policy for prosecutors on cases of assisted suicide in answer, but what can she do to assure the House that July, my office was consulted by him, as is appropriate never again will the Government use bogus reasons for for a superintendent Department. The DPP’s interim not proceeding with Serious Fraud Office offences? policy is now the subject of public consultation and a I simply mention the murky BAE Systems-Saudi final policy will be issued next year. arms deal. 667 Oral Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 668

The Solicitor-General: I suppose precedent would be a protocol to make its limits very clear. Our current law a help because there never has been such behaviour by complies with the OECD convention, which the OECD the Government. I remind the hon. Gentleman of what makes very clear. the House of Lords said about the decision. First, it made it clear that the director of the SFO, not any Mr. Edward Garnier (Harborough) (Con): Why does member of the Government, made the decision. It was the Solicitor-General propose a difference between the also clearly stated that: function of the Attorney-General on extra-territorial “It may indeed be doubted whether a responsible decision-maker crime under the Bribery Bill and on other offences could, on the facts before the Director, have decided otherwise”. committed overseas?

Malcolm Bruce: This is a problem for the Government— The Solicitor-General: So far as I am aware—it is and, indeed, for the House and the country. I engaged not my Bill, but a Ministry of Justice Bill—the with the OECD investigation into bribery, in which it recommendations of the Joint Committee have played a said that role there. I am obviously answering on behalf of the prosecution departments today, as I always do, but a “systematic deficiencies… make clear the need to safeguard the independence of the SFO”. good deal of note has been taken of what the Joint Committee said, and that was its position. How will that happen if reform of the Attorney-General’s power does not take place? Transnational Bribery

The Solicitor-General: The only power would be a 14. Hugh Bayley (City of York) (Lab): What plans the power to use a direction in a case where national Government have for legislation to amend the law on security was at stake. There is a process to go through transnational bribery; and if she will make a statement. before that happens. It has not happened for many, [301679] many years. Normally what would happen, even in a case where national security was at a premium, is that The Solicitor-General: The Bribery Bill, already referred the director would take it into account when evaluating to, will provide a modern and comprehensive scheme of the public interest. bribery offences to equip the prosecutors and the courts to deal effectively with bribery both at home and abroad. David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): Does the Solicitor-General believe that the proposed Hugh Bayley: When I introduced my draft International Bribery Bill would deal with the Leader of the Opposition’s Bribery and Corruption Bill in February 1998, it was promise to make amendments to the inheritance tax opposed by the hon. Member for Lichfield (Michael regime which will benefit only the people on his Christmas Fabricant), who sits on the Conservative Front Bench card list? today, and who described it as “fundamentally naïve”. Has my hon. and learned Friend discussed the Bribery The Solicitor-General: I do not know that much Bill with the Opposition Law Officers and will they now about the Leader of the Opposition’s Christmas card support it? list. The Solicitor-General: I do not think there is anything fundamentally naïve about this Bill. At first sight, it Mr. Speaker: That is as well—let me say to the hon. looks as if the Bill is going to hit the spot and will be and learned Lady that its relationship with questions 12 much more modern, clearer and less fragmented than and 13 is, at best, I think, opaque. what applies currently. Whether the Opposition will support it, I do not know. It will be introduced in the David Howarth (Cambridge) (LD): The Solicitor-General other place by my noble Friend Lord Bach, and when it seems to have missed the point that my right hon. comes here it will be dealt with by the Under-Secretary Friend the Member for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce) was of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for making—that because all reform of the Attorney-General’s Watford (Claire Ward), who I have no doubt at all will office has been removed from the Constitutional Reform have conversations with the Opposition. May I congratulate Bill, the power of the Attorney-General to superintend my hon. Friend the Member for City of York (Hugh in general the prosecutions put forward by the directors Bayley), who has had a long-term interest in this issue has been left unaffected. Has the Solicitor-General received and has focused primarily on ensuring that bribery and any guidance, information or assurance from the OECD corruption go out of overseas development funding? I that it is satisfied with the arrangements that will now hope that he will be pleased with the Bill when it comes be in place, because if she has not, the lack of independence through. of the directors will continue to be a blot on the reputation of this country and may leave British business Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Has the in a very difficult position? Solicitor-General had representations about alleged systematic bribery in overseas offices by entry clearance The Solicitor-General: The hon. Gentleman really officers, allowing people effectively to buy visas to enter does not live in the real world. He should try telling this country? Richard Alderman or Keir Starmer that they are not independent: they are extremely independent individuals, The Solicitor-General: No, I have not, although I and rightly so. There is a detailed protocol, which I have read, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman has, about commend to the hon. Gentleman, so that he can understand some suggestions along those lines. When they are this area rather better than he appears to do now. The brought to the attention of the authorities, they will, of superintendence function has specifically been cast into course, be taken very seriously. 669 Oral Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 670

Pro Bono Work The Solicitor-General: We have frequent and regular meetings with the DPP, and we discuss a range of 15. Mr. David Amess (Southend, West) (Con): What issues. If there were particular concerns about prosecutions assessment she has made of the effectiveness of her for burglary—perhaps the hon. Gentleman has some to policy on raising awareness of pro bono work. [301680] raise—we would talk to the DPP about them, but under the terms of the protocol to which I have alluded The Solicitor-General: Our eighth national pro bono between the Attorney-General and prosecution week, which is dedicated to raising awareness of pro departments. In 2008-09, the Crown Prosecution Service bono work, took place two weeks ago. The number of conviction rate for burglary was 87.1 per cent. nationally, activities increased to 128 from 82 a year before. The and 91.3 per cent. in Norfolk. Attorney-General and I hold a pro bono reception to showcase such work to MPs, and we have introduced a Mr. Bellingham: I am pleased to hear that, but does guide to pro bono, which we have distributed to every the Solicitor-General share my view that burglaries are MP. That guide informs MPs about sources of pro invariably incredibly traumatic, and often lead to dreadful bono work in their constituencies, so that, if they cannot scars that last many years and tear families apart? Does handle a problem, they can contact a lawyer who she agree that as long as there is sufficient evidence to can help. prosecute, burglaries should always be prosecuted through the court, and never dealt with by out-of-court procedures Mr. Amess: As Members of Parliament, we have such as cautions or penalty notices for disorder? constituents who come to our surgeries with legal problems, and we try to get them legal aid and access to pro bono, The Solicitor-General: I agree with the hon. Gentleman which is not easy. Why has access to justice become so completely. I imagine that he refers to dwelling-house expensive under Labour? burglaries, which can be extremely injurious to the people who suffer them. There is an annexe to the The Solicitor-General: I do not think that it has. I DPP’s guidance on when to use conditional cautions, receive the same sort of inquiries, and I can usually find and burglary is not included among the offences for a local lawyer to help if I cannot deal with the matter which they should be used. myself. If the hon. Gentleman looks at the guide to pro bono, he will find many networks that have local Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): Yesterday, I had a membership. Therefore, people can get something pretty meeting with Slough Town Against Crime, which is an close to their needs pretty quickly. alliance of shops, police officers and public bodies. One of the participants suggested that prolific shoplifters Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): As the processes who have been barred from shops and have shoplifted of the Infrastructure Planning Commission get under again ought to be prosecuted for burglary. Will the way, has my hon. and learned Friend had discussions Solicitor-General raise that matter with the DPP, as it with the Department for Communities and Local would be a practical way of tackling the appalling Government about ensuring that individuals and problem of prolific shoplifting, which is blighting Slough communities have access to proper legal advice? town centre? The Solicitor-General: I have not had such discussions, but I understand the nature of the issue. From general The Solicitor-General: This is an old, knotty problem knowledge, I am aware that some bodies help with in the law. In order to be a burglar, someone must enter planning applications, so I am sure that citizens will be as a trespasser. There have been prosecutions when able to find assistance if they want to be represented. people have gone from the public side of a shop to the private side, behind the counter. That has been deemed Mr. Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): Does to be entering as a trespasser, and I can see an analogy the Solicitor-General accept that de facto pro bono with the case cited by my hon. Friend. I think that the work has increased substantially as a result of the local chief Crown prosecutor would have to examine Government’s restrictions on the level of legal aid fees each case in order to make a sensible decision, but my available to members of the Bar? hon. Friend’s idea does have merit.

The Solicitor-General: No, the number of acts of Domestic Violence legal assistance has increased significantly through the reorganisation of the legal aid system. For instance, 17. Mr. Graham Allen (Nottingham, North) (Lab): there were 2.5 million acts of assistance in the last year If she will meet the stronger families project in but one, and 2.9 million this year, and they have increased Nottingham to discuss means of increasing the rate of in both the civil and criminal areas. Pro bono is in prosecution in domestic violence cases. [301682] addition to all the work done under legal aid, and it is an important part of a lawyer’s experience and training. As with most volunteering, it is good not just for the The Solicitor-General: I should be very happy to look recipient but for the person who does it. at that very good early-intervention project, whose aim is to help young children who would otherwise suffer Prosecution Policy (Burglaries) trauma as a result of their experiences of domestic violence. 16. Mr. Henry Bellingham (North-West Norfolk) (Con): As I am sure my hon. Friend knows, we continue to When she next expects to meet the Director of Public work to improve prosecution performance in this area. Prosecutions to discuss prosecution policy in respect of The number of domestic violence prosecutions undertaken burglaries. [301681] by the Crown Prosecution Service has risen from nearly 671 Oral Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 672

35,000 in 2004-05 to nearly 68,000 now, and the proportion Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): Is the of successful cases has risen from 55 per cent. to 72 per Solicitor-General satisfied that the Crown Prosecution cent. over the same period. Service—engaging in discussions with the police—can get a grip on the problem of the mistaken use of Mr. Allen: The perpetrators of domestic violence out-of-court disposals, given the importance of ensuring include a high percentage of cowards and bullies, even that the interests of justice and, indeed, the needs of in comparison with the perpetrators of other criminal victims are satisfied, and that appropriate measures offences. Those two groups are particularly susceptible have been taken? to a strong, clear message from Government about the consequences of their actions, but the performance The Solicitor-General: The right hon. Gentleman has indicators in the local area agreement relating to domestic raised an important issue. I am aware of at least one violence have been dropped, and there has been a chief Crown prosecutor who has already started to resulting drop in detection in the Nottingham area. Will make representations about what he regards as the my hon. and learned Friend emphasise once again how overuse of fixed penalty notices when he feels prosecutions important the Government consider this offence, and would be appropriate. We should perhaps also have will she consider again the possibility of restoring the regard to the overuse of taking offences into consideration. performance indicators? I am confident that the CPS will play a full role in examination of the position.

The Solicitor-General: I cannot emphasise too strongly Miss Anne McIntosh (Vale of York) (Con): Does the how important the Government consider prosecuting Solicitor-General not share my concern, which is also domestic violence. My hon. Friend was good enough to shared by the Justice Secretary, that there are too many tell me that he was worried about the removal of the out-of-court settlements and fixed penalty notices for sanction detection count rate, and about the possibility the crime of shoplifting? I might also ask why the hon. that it had had a bad effect on arrest rates. I have looked Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) did not support into the matter for him, and have established that although my Bill in the previous Parliament, as it would have sanction detection rates are no longer a target, they are benefited her constituency. still counted in Nottingham. The figures that I have found do not quite agree with those that he has given. The Solicitor-General: I cannot comment on the use As there is no offence of domestic violence, it is quite of out-of-court settlements in particular cases, but I difficult to quantify it in the terms to which he has know that the hon. Lady has been very concerned about referred. However, if he is not satisfied with my answer I this matter for some time. Clearly, systematic shoplifting shall be happy to meet him, and I should also be very should be prosecuted, although perhaps the occasional pleased to visit Nottingham. instance should not. I know that the hon. Lady agrees that there needs to be a proper balance. My hon. Friend Crown Prosecution Service the Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) has raised a very interesting point that would add gravity to this: 18. Mr. David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) the threat of prosecuting systematic shoplifters for (Con): What recent assessment she has made of the the higher-sentence offence of burglary, rather than effectiveness of the Crown Prosecution Service. [301683] for theft.

The Solicitor-General: Her Majesty’s Crown Prosecution Service inspectorate assesses the effectiveness of the LEADER OF THE HOUSE CPS, and reports on a wide range of operational issues. The Director of Public Prosecutions and the chief executive of the CPS engage in regular area performance reviews The Leader of the House was asked— with their chief Crown prosecutors, and a series of Modernisation Committee monitoring and evaluation reports are produced. The CPS performance reports on violence against women and on hate crime are due to be published soon. 20. Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby) (Con): When she next plans to arrange a meeting of the Select Committee on the Modernisation of the House of Commons. Mr. Evennett: Was the Solicitor-General not rather [301685] disappointed to read a recent report by Her Majesty’s CPS inspectorate which found that nearly a third of The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of 367 advocacy assessments were rated lacklustre, less the House of Commons (Barbara Keeley): Modernisation than competent or very poor? Has the CPS given her of the House is taken forward in a number of ways. The any indication of how it will improve its standards in parliamentary reform Committee, chaired by my hon. future? Friend the Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright), is the most recent development, and it has now reported. The Solicitor-General: I do not know how that advocacy The Procedure Committee also looks at ways of reforming compares with other kinds of advocacy. Those ratings the House. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman agrees apply only to the CPS. They should be compared with that all that is important work. those applying to the Bar and to defence lawyers to establish whether they are any less lacklustre. However, Mr. Robathan: What the House of Commons desperately I take the hon. Gentleman’s point, and I will keep my needs is sensible and considered reform. When this eye on the position. Government came into office in 1997, they set up the 673 Oral Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 674

Modernisation Committee, under the cloak of which to establish a new Committee on parliamentary reform. they have severely restricted the ability of the House of It was established, it has reported, and we are now Commons to hold the Executive to account and, considering its proposals. furthermore, have stopped us scrutinising legislation properly.Will the Government now scrap the Modernisation Mr. Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Does Committee, which has not met for over a year, and give my hon. Friend agree, however, that we need to discuss us a proper opportunity, through making time available the report of the Committee chaired by my hon. Friend in the House of Commons, to debate the Reform of the the Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright), and that House of Commons Committee report that has just we also need quickly to secure cross-party agreement to been published? introduce the reforms before the next election? We must do this quickly. Barbara Keeley: I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman. The Modernisation Committee has achieved a number of things that have all helped with House scrutiny. Barbara Keeley: Of course the House will need to debate the report and come to a decision on any changes, but we should reflect on the fact that the report was Mr. Robathan: Name them. published only two days ago.

Barbara Keeley: The commitment to more draft Bills, Mr. Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con): The Minister earlier sittings on Thursdays, sittings in Westminster has acknowledged that although the Modernisation Hall—[Interruption.] Select Committee reports can be Committee has not met for some time, the process debated in Westminster Hall. Deferred Divisions— continues. Can we therefore have an early opportunity to make a decision on the Procedure Committee’s report The Leader of the House of Commons (Ms Harriet on the principle of electing our Deputy Speakers? Harman): Topical debates. Barbara Keeley: Recommendations have been made Barbara Keeley: Yes, topical debates. For Select on that and are being considered. Committees, there has been the introduction of core tasks and the creation of the Scrutiny Unit. For oral parliamentary questions, notice has been reduced so Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): Having served that they are more topical. There are also earlier sittings, on the Modernisation Committee, the Procedure Committee the carry-over of Bills, the connecting of Parliament and, more recently, the parliamentary reform Committee, with the public and Public Bill Committee evidence-taking. may I say that it makes eminent sense for the Modernisation I rest my case. Committee to be rolled into the Procedure Committee and for us to bolster the powers of that Select Committee, Mr. Ian McCartney (Makerfield) (Lab): A Justice which has done valiant work and could do so even Department Bill is due to come before the House in more? early January. Can my hon. Friend give me a commitment that the compensation scheme for the victims of Mumbai, Barbara Keeley: I do not think that I can add to what Sharm el-Sheikh, Bali and other terrorist incidents, I have said on that matter. which was promised by the Prime Minister and other colleagues and which the Government were supposed Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) to put in the Queen’s Speech, will be included in the (LD): That is very disappointing, because a lack of Bill? urgency is being shown by those on the Government Benches, given just how little time is left to make these Mr. Speaker: Order. As always, the right hon. reforms stick before the end of this Parliament. The Gentleman’s ingenuity is to the fore, but the relationship Modernisation Committee was a great betrayal, because between that question and the question on the Order it was meant to bring forward reforms to improve the Paper is at best tangential, and at worst non-existent, so accountability of Parliament. The promise was that we I suggest it is not answered. would get proper management of the business throughout the year in return for the programming of Bills, but Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con): As the instead we have just had guillotines by the back door. longest-serving member of the Modernisation Committee Many of the reforms that the Minister talked about in this House, and as a past Chairman of the Procedure have come from the Procedure Committee. It should be Committee, may I ask the Deputy Leader of the House left to get on with reforming the procedures of this whether she thinks it is time for the Modernisation House and the Government should make clear how Committee to meet again, not least to discuss the proposals much urgency will go into ensuring that these reforms in the Reform of the House of Commons Committee are introduced. report, bearing in mind that many of them originated in the Modernisation Committee under the inspired leadership Barbara Keeley: I have said that we are expecting to of the late Mr. Cook? have a debate and to come to decisions about any changes on which we need to proceed. A great deal of Barbara Keeley: The hon. Gentleman put a question work is going on in this place; I have read out a number to me on this matter some weeks ago. As he has said, of the things for which the Modernisation Committee there is a continuum of modernisation. On that earlier was responsible, and a great deal of consideration is occasion, I said that we would bring forward our proposals being given at the moment to reform. 675 Oral Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 676

Expenses and Allowances Barbara Keeley: The Government have accepted the following recommendations: that there should be regular monitoring of the number of questions answered later 21. Mr. Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con): than the answering period of five days; that better Whether she plans to bring forward proposals for guidance should be provided for Ministers and officials legislation to implement recommendations contained on answering questions; and that further work should in the report on MPs’ expenses and allowances from be done by the Procedure Committee on challenging the Committee on Standards in Public Life. [301686] unsatisfactory answers. It certainly is a good idea to list performance by Department so that people can The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of see that. the House of Commons (Barbara Keeley): The Government have accepted the recommendations in the Committee’s Mr. Nigel Dodds (Belfast, North) (DUP): As well as report and will bring forward any legislation that may the admonishment referred to by the hon. Member for be necessary to implement them. Isle of Wight (Mr. Turner), are the Government considering any sanctions that would deal with the issue of questions Mr. Harper: I note that answer, but it is rather unspecific. that are not answered in a timely or substantive way? The Kelly report contains some specific proposals that require primary legislation, so can the Deputy Leader Barbara Keeley: It is a question of transparency of the House give us any more detail about when those monitoring and reminders at this stage. We have also specific measures will be brought forward, given that recently published guidance on answering written questions relatively few sitting days are left before the end of this in a guide to parliamentary work that is published on Parliament and therefore it will not be able to introduce the Cabinet Office website. There has been a great some of those measures if she does not get a move on? amount of activity in guidance, monitoring and transparency and we hope that that will do the trick. Barbara Keeley: We are in discussion with the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority and Mr. Shailesh Vara (North-West Cambridgeshire) (Con): the Committee on Standards in Public Life about what In June, I raised the issue of inadequate answers to legislation is necessary. When we reach agreement as a written questions, because the practice was simply to result of that discussion, we will introduce the necessary refer to information being available in the House Library. measures. The then Deputy Leader of the House, the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), said that he would write to Parliamentary Questions every Minister to ensure that that practice did not continue. However, since then matters have not changed, as Members on both sides of the House will confirm. In 22. Mr. Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): What fact, I have received five replies that conform to the old steps she is taking to ensure that hon. Members’ practice. parliamentary questions are answered by Ministers in as full a manner as possible. [301687] For example, a reply on carer’s allowance on 7 July from the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Jonathan 25. Mr. Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con): What steps she Shaw), simply said: is taking to ensure that hon. Members’ parliamentary questions are answered by Ministers in as full and “The information has been placed in the Library.”—[Official Report, 7 July 2009; Vol. 495, c. 740W.] timely a manner as possible. [301690] Again, a reply on 12 October from the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, the The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of hon. Member for Dudley, North (Mr. Austin), simply the House of Commons (Barbara Keeley): My right hon. said: and learned Friend the Leader of the House has today responded to the Procedure Committee report on written “A set of tables containing the information requested has been parliamentary questions. That response sets out how placed in the House Library.”—[Official Report, 12 October 2009; Vol. 497, c. 356W.] the Government plan to improve the quality and timeliness of answers to written parliamentary questions. That is not acceptable. Rather than simply going to a Committee and giving evidence, as she has just mentioned, will the Deputy Leader of the House have stern words Mr. Turner: Which Minister did the Deputy Leader with her colleagues and ensure that we receive the of the House admonish for tardiness most recently, and proper information, particularly on behalf of members have things got better since she intervened? of the public who do not have the easy access to the Library that Members have? Barbara Keeley: The hon. Gentleman is talking about a very recent meeting with a Minister from the Department Barbara Keeley: It was not me who gave the evidence for Work and Pensions. As it took place only very to the Committee, but my predecessor. I have quite recently, we would not be expecting that quick a recovery recently had a meeting with an individual Minister and to be made, but we hope for an improvement. officials, when I used very stern words; I am prepared to do that. I am always happy to consider individual cases. Mr. Dunne: I note the Minister’s comment about the If the guidance that my predecessor set out has not production of the report. Does it include a league table been followed, I would be very happy to take up the of the quality, timeliness and performance of Departments? cases that the shadow Deputy Leader of the House has If not, why not? raised. Let me reiterate that the Government’s recent 677 Oral Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 678 response to the Procedure Committee’s report supports difficult to say with certainty which clauses of a Bill further work on challenging unsatisfactory answers. I were not considered at all as a result of programming, shall take that forward and hopefully the Procedure but in Public Bill Committees no clauses were not Committee will decide to do so, too. reached for debate.

Mr. Bone: Is the Deputy Leader of the House not HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION totally embarrassed by that answer? Barbara Keeley: No, I am not. The important thing is The hon. Member for North Devon, representing the the last point that I made—that, in Public Bill Committees, House of Commons Commission, was asked— there were no clauses that were not reached for debate. Microphones (Chamber) Mr. Douglas Hogg (Sleaford and North Hykeham) 23. Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con): If the House (Con): Will the hon. Lady give thought to the suggestion of Commons Commission will take steps to install from the noble Lord Rooker that, when a Bill has been additional microphones for the use of hon. Members inadequately discussed or not discussed at all in this who are unable to stand when speaking in the place, a certificate should accompany it when it is sent to the other place? In that way, the other place can Chamber; and if he will make a statement. [301688] know which parts of the Bill have not been discussed or need to be discussed more fully. Nick Harvey: The Commission is very sympathetic to the requirements of Members who are unable to stand when addressing the House and whose words might Barbara Keeley: Many of the things that we are therefore not be heard fully. I have therefore asked the talking about this morning in respect of reforming how relevant officials to investigate having microphone coverage Bills progress through the House are under consideration throughout the Chamber. From the information available, at the moment, but I do not think that there is anything I understand that the improvement sought by the hon. specific on that particular recommendation. However, Gentleman should be possible, although significant physical the other place knows how much debate on a Bill there work might be needed in the Chamber. I shall of course has been here, so the process that has been described inform the hon. Gentleman and the House when the does tend to happen anyway. full investigation is complete. Dr. Evan Harris (Oxford, West and Abingdon) (LD): Michael Fabricant: I am grateful for that answer. We The Deputy Leader of the House should know that have at least two colleagues in this Chamber who find it Government new clauses and amendments are not discussed impossible or difficult to stand. They speak with clarity in Public Bill Committees—clearly they cannot be, because of mind and voice, yet listeners and viewers at home they are moved after that stage. The Library has told me often cannot hear them clearly because of the positioning that, on four Bills alone, nearly 200 amendments, including of the microphones. We all look forward to receiving an 50 Government new clauses and amendments, were not update on precisely when that information, and the scrutinised. Does she accept that we cannot go on like microphones, will be provided. this? The Wright committee has set out a way to avoid the problem so that we do not have to demonise Nick Harvey: I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman. Government and the Government do not have to infantilise A range of options might be possible. They are being Members of this House. investigated at the moment and once the best option is identified I am sure that we will be ready to crack on Barbara Keeley: We have had a number of exchanges and do it. this morning about the Reform of the House of Commons Committee. We have had the Committee’s report for two days, and we will be considering the recommendations LEADER OF THE HOUSE in it that relate to the hon. Gentleman’s question.

Select Committee Reports The Leader of the House was asked—

Programming (Bills) 26. Mr. David Amess (Southend, West) (Con): What plans she has to allow more time for consideration of 24. Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): How Select Committee reports by the House. [301691] many clauses of Bills were not debated as a result of the provisions of programme orders in the 2008-09 The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of Session. [301689] the House of Commons (Barbara Keeley): The Government have already created additional opportunities for debating The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of Select Committee reports by establishing sittings in the House of Commons (Barbara Keeley): All parts of a Westminster Hall. That provided an extra 52 hours of Bill are subject to parliamentary scrutiny at all stages of debating time for Select Committee reports in 2008-09. its passage. In many cases, Bills also undergo pre-legislative I should like to remind the House that the Government scrutiny. Elements of a Bill that are not debated in will always consider requests from Select Committees detail at one stage may clearly be considered at another for a tag on the Order Paper for any Government stage and, in any event, may be divided on. It is therefore business that may be relevant to their work. 679 Oral Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 680

Mr. Amess: The Minister knows perfectly well that, building management system changes, voltage optimisation, since we have had a Labour Government, it has been draft proofing and behaviour-change programmes. That practically impossible to scrutinise anything other than will allow for a challenging but realistic environmental through the Select Committee procedure. Will she now target, supported by an action plan to be set before the agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for North-West House in 2010. Hampshire (Sir George Young) and give more time to debating Select Committee reports on the Floor of the David Taylor: Like hundreds of colleagues, for nine House? years I have had the pleasure and privilege of working in the superb surroundings of our fine and iconic Barbara Keeley: It is always open to the Chairs of building, Portcullis House. Sadly, it has the lowest possible Select Committees to ask for a topical debate when they band G energy performance rating of 203. What is the produce a report, given that such reports are often Commission doing to ensure that buildings on the topical. That would be a way to give more time to Select parliamentary estate rise up league tables to become Committee reports, over and above the extra sitting public sector exemplars to the commercial and industrial hours and days that arise from debating them in sectors? Westminster Hall. Nick Harvey: The Management Board recognised in Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con): When Select 2007-08 that there was a need for improvement in the Committee reports come before Westminster Hall, they House’s environmental performance. A new post of are very often timetabled in a way that makes proper head of environment was filled on 31 December 2008, debate impossible. The most recent Health Committee and the aim since then has been to lay foundations for report came before us right on the edge of Prorogation: Parliament to make an improvement, and a good-practice instead of having a proper three-hour debate on inequalities gap analysis has been undertaken. As I said, that will in health, we had to try to work out when the House result in a comprehensive plan being brought before the was going to rise. We lost half of our debate because of House in 2010. Prorogation and we did not have enough time, so is it possible to bring the report back for further consideration? Mr. Andrew Mackay (Bracknell) (Con): Notwithstanding the comprehensive list that the hon. Gentleman has just Barbara Keeley: As I have just said, it always open for read out, it seems to many of us in the Palace of Select Committee Chairs to ask for topical debates. If a Westminster that when the weather is uncharacteristically debate is unfortunately chopped about because of voting warm outside it becomes even hotter inside. Most of us around Prorogation, I am sure that the Leader of the have something in our homes called a thermostatic House would be open to looking at that. control. Could that not happen here, and save the taxpayer a lot of money?

Nick Harvey: I assure the right hon. Gentleman that HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION there are thermostatic controls in the Palace of Westminster and in Portcullis House, although it would be fair to acknowledge that they are not always hugely efficient. The hon. Member for North Devon, representing the House of Commons Commission, was asked— Hugh Bayley (City of York) (Lab): A few weeks ago when the House of Commons Commission considered Energy Efficiency (House of Commons) the proposal of the 10:10 campaign that the House should cut its carbon emissions by 10 per cent. in 2010, 27. David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/ it was decided—sadly—that it was impractical. Was Co-op): What steps the House of Commons Commission that decision taken by consensus among all members of plans to take to improve the energy efficiency of buildings the Commission from all parties, and did the Commission on the House of Commons part of the parliamentary receive any representations from the right hon. Members estate. [301692] for Witney (Mr. Cameron) or for Sheffield, Hallam (Mr. Clegg), who proposed to the House two days later Nick Harvey: In the last 18 months, the House service that 10:10 should be supported? has reconfigured building management systems and installed new remote energy meters and kitchen ventilation Nick Harvey: The Commission received a variety of and lighting controls, as well as energy-efficient lighting representations but felt that it was not possible honourably and movement sensors. It has also initiated an IT upgrade to commit the House to doing something in the course and a server virtualisation programme, and begun an of 2010 that we could not be confident of achieving. As insulation trial as part of the cast iron roof project. An I have already indicated, we are determined to make estate-wide environmental assessment is currently under improvements way beyond that, but we cannot guarantee way to identify future options, which include further doing so during the calendar year 2010. 681 26 NOVEMBER 2009 Business of the House 682

Business of the House Pursuant to the answers we have just heard, will the Leader of the House give a clear indication of when she 11.31 am expects to find time for the House to debate and vote on the recommendations of the Wright Committee—the Sir George Young (North-West Hampshire) (Con): Committee on Reform of the House of Commons? May I ask the Leader of the House to give us next Unlike the right hon. and learned Lady, I welcomed the week’s business? report when it was published, particularly since many of the ideas reflected what the Opposition had already The Leader of the House of Commons (Ms Harriet proposed. In written evidence to the Committee in July, Harman): The business for next week will be: she said that she wanted a quick report MONDAY 30 NOVEMBER—Second Reading of the “so that the proposed reforms can be considered for implementation Financial Services Bill. early in the next Session.” TUESDAY 1DECEMBER—Motion to approve European I share that enthusiasm, so can we expect to have a documents relating to financial services, followed by a debate and votes on the proposals before the end of general debate on fisheries. January? WEDNESDAY 2DECEMBER—Remaining stages of the I see in the future business set out in today’s Order Equality Bill. Paper that the right hon. and learned Lady has tabled a THURSDAY 3DECEMBER—A general debate on European motion on the appointment of the chairman and other affairs. members of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority. Given the speed with which we need to move The provisional business for the week commencing if we are to get the authority up and running, will she 7 December will include: give time next week for that debate? MONDAY 7DECEMBER—Second Reading of the Energy Will the right hon. and learned Lady give a statement Bill. on the timetabling of her Equality Bill? Yesterday, on a TUESDAY 8DECEMBER—Opposition Day [1st Allotted point of order, my hon. Friend the Member for Forest Day]. There will be a debate on an Opposition motion. of Dean (Mr. Harper) noted that her Bill will have only Subject to be announced. one day on Report, despite the size of the legislation WEDNESDAY 9DECEMBER—Statement on the pre-Budget and the number of amendments, excluding Government report, followed by remaining stages of the Child Poverty amendments, that have already been tabled. The right Bill. hon. and learned Lady has given several promises to the THURSDAY 10 DECEMBER—Estimates Day [1st allotted House that her Bill will provide an exemplar of good day]. There will be a debate on students and universities scrutiny; we would expect nothing less from the and a debate on the relationship between central and parliamentarian of the year. Will she give an assurance local government. Details will be given in the Official that she will translate her fine words into action? Report. May I repeat my call for a stand-alone debate in [The details are as follows: Students and universities; Government time on Afghanistan? Yesterday, the former 11th Report of the Innovation, Universities, Science and head of MI6, Sir Richard Dearlove, accused the Prime Skills Committee of Session 2008-09 HC 170; Government Minister of Response—8th Special Report of Session 2008-09, HC 991. “squeezing the defence budget for approximately eight years.” The Balance of Power: Central and Local Government; The right hon. and learned Lady has said on several 6th Report form the Communities and Local Government occasions that she recognises the need to find time for a Committee of Session 2008-09, HC33; Government debate on Afghanistan. As Downing street has briefed Response—Cm 7712.] that a decision from President Obama on troop levels is At 6 pm the House will be asked to agree all outstanding imminent, will she promise to ensure that the House has estimates. an early opportunity to discuss the implications of that I should also like to inform the House that the decision for our forces on the ground? business in Westminster Hall for 10 December will be: Finally, may I ask once again when the right hon. and learned Lady will give us the date of the Easter recess? THURSDAY 10 DECEMBER—A debate from the Work She said last week that it would be announced “in the and Pensions Committee on tackling pensioner poverty. usual way”. If that is the case, why did she not do it in the usual way when she gave us the date of the Christmas Sir George Young: I am grateful to the Leader of the and February recesses more than four weeks ago? Is her House for giving us the forthcoming business. reluctance to announce the date in any way related to Today there is a written statement from the Secretary the careless whisper from the Home Secretary, who this of State for Communities and Local Government on week betrayed his fears that next year’s poll would be the local government finance settlement for next year. “a watershed election, à la 1945, à la 1979, more so than 1997”? Last year, as in most years, there was an oral statement Does the right hon. and learned Lady share those on the Floor of the House, allowing us to question the anxieties, or is she made of tougher stuff than the Minister on behalf of hard-pressed council taxpayers in Home Secretary? our constituencies. Why has that convention been broken for the last settlement before an election? Ms Harman: The right hon. Gentleman asked about Will the Leader of the House confirm that there will the written ministerial statement on the local government be a debate after the pre-Budget report on 9 December? settlement. He will know that I have announced the Given the delicate state of the UK economy, does she date of the pre-Budget report; all the issues can be not think that the House has a right to debate the raised when the Chancellor is at the Dispatch Box on Chancellor’s plans? the occasion of the pre-Budget report. 683 Business of the House26 NOVEMBER 2009 Business of the House 684

The right hon. Gentleman asked when the pre-Budget covers England and was extended, by agreement, to report, which will be the subject of a statement, can be Wales; I have had discussions with the Scottish Executive debated. I know that the House is concerned to ensure and they have now, I am glad to say, agreed that it that we have a weekly opportunity to discuss the important should apply to devolved authorities as well as to reserved issues of the economy and the public spending that is authorities. That is a late agreement, but with the agreement needed to support the economy as it comes out of of the House we have proposed it in a new clause for recession and into recovery. I judge that the fiscal discussion on Report, so I hope that hon. Members will responsibility Bill, which will shortly have its Second bear with us and understand why it was not possible to Reading, will offer an opportunity to debate all the introduce it in Committee. issues that arise on the pre-Budget report. The rest of the amendments are about crossing the t’s The right hon. Gentleman asked about the Wright and dotting the i’s on issues about which there is no Committee. I pay tribute to and thank all the hon. quarrel; they are just technical issues. There is an ongoing Members who have served on that Committee; they discussion about religion, freedom of speech and sexual have done a very good and thorough job. Of course the orientation, and there have been many hours of debate House will need to debate the report. I remind the right on those subjects. Indeed, I know that the hon. Member hon. Gentleman that it was we who brought a motion for Oxford, West and Abingdon (Dr. Harris) participated before the House that enabled it to agree to set up the in that debate. There is no final agreement on the issue, Committee. but I am satisfied that the Equality Bill will be properly The House will need to debate the report and come to scrutinised, then go to the House of Lords and, I hope, a decision on any changes arising from it. It was published pass into law. only two days ago, and the Government respect its The right hon. Gentleman raised the question of complexity and its reach. We will give it full consideration Afghanistan, and President Obama’s statement is expected and tell the House how we propose to proceed, but I next week. I know that the House will have an early want to allay any concerns that somehow nothing has opportunity to make its comments known and to raise happened since 1997, and that everything remains to be issues on the Floor of the House after the President’s done. There has been a continuous process of reform statement next week. and modernisation of the House; we have brought proposals to the House, and they have been put into Several hon. Members rose— effect. The right hon. Gentleman is right to identify the Mr. Speaker: Order. I remind the Leader of the fact that the normal time within which a debate is held House and the hon. Gentleman whom I am about to in the House after such a report is two months, which call that a very large number of Back Benchers want to would take us to the end of January. contribute. The right hon. Gentleman also asked about the appointment of the chair and board members of the Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority. We (LD): The Leader of the House said that the House strongly agree with him that IPSA needs to be able to would have an opportunity to debate the President’s get on with its work as soon as possible. There is a statement on Afghanistan, but as she sat down she did chair-designate and an acting chief executive; the board not quite make it clear how or when that opportunity members have been identified by the Speaker’s Committee will come. It would be extremely helpful if she could for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority; clarify that point. a motion has been laid before the House, and we expect It should be totally unnecessary for the Opposition to to debate it next week so that IPSA can get on with its ask for a debate on the pre-Budget report. The fact that very important work. other financial matters are before the House does not The right hon. Gentleman raised the question of mean that it should not scrutinise the PBR properly. parliamentary scrutiny of the Equality Bill. Following On programming and the Equality Bill, it is the hon. Members’ references to that issue on a number of Leader of the House who introduced the new scope, occasions, I have looked very carefully into it. I would involving Scotland, and the House will need to debate say that the Bill has received unprecedented scrutiny by that. As for the chances of dealing with all the other the House—and rightly so. It was the subject of a amendments, she may think that those involve dotting report not only by the Joint Committee on Human the i’s and crossing the t’s, but it is up to this House, Rights, but also by the Select Committee on Work and when scrutinising the Bill, to decide whether the i’s and Pensions. There was a Public Bill Committee, in which t’s have been dotted or crossed. Will she therefore evidence was taken from the public, and there were also ensure that the Bill receives the proper scrutiny that she many hours of debate. To make the Bill an exemplar of promised? good practice my hon. and learned Friend the Solicitor- The Leader of the House says that the Energy Bill General, the lead Minister on the Bill, has already will come before the House, but why has she scheduled tabled all the amendments and new clauses that we seek House business that requires the Secretary of State for to put before the House on Report. That was done Energy and Climate Change to be here when he should yesterday, so the House has been given much more be in Copenhagen setting the agenda for a climate notice than usual of the issues that will come back to it change conference deal? Why has that business been set for debate on Report. to clash so that the Secretary of State has to be in two It was not possible to debate in Committee one places at once? particular issue, so it will be put before the House on Will the Leader of the House tell the House when the Report. That is the question of extending to Scotland Flood and Water Management Bill will receive its Second clause 1, which gives public authorities a statutory Reading? My constituents experienced flooding in obligation to narrow the gap between rich and poor. It Stonehaven, and I know from that just how serious the 685 Business of the House26 NOVEMBER 2009 Business of the House 686

[Sir Robert Smith] Geraldine Smith (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Lab): Five young people are alive today because of the tragic situation is, but many constituencies in England have death of a wonderful little boy, George Higginson. now experienced dramatic flooding, so the Bill will be George was an organ donor. His father feels that it an important step in trying to respond to the crisis. would be beneficial if people had an opportunity to Finally, will the Leader of the House show more sign up as organ donors while voting at elections, enthusiasm for the Wright Committee’s report, and particularly the general election. more willingness to take forward its agenda and ensure that this Parliament, in its dying days, delivers that Ms Harman: It is a desperately sad and difficult reform to the people of this country? decision for all families when a child dies, and it is an Ms Harman: I have not been able to announce anything incredibly generous thing for them to agree to organ specific about the opportunity for the House to raise donations that can save other people’s lives. My hon. points following the announcement by the President of Friend makes a very sensible suggestion, and I will talk the United States on Afghanistan, but I am “signalling”, to the Justice Secretary to see whether cards for signing as it is described in the newspapers, that there will be an up for organ donation could be made available in polling opportunity for the House to debate the matter. However, stations. hon. Members know that oral statements are not announced in advance—[Interruption.] We do not usually announce Mr. Robert Syms (Poole) (Con): May we have a them in advance. Anyway, I am not doing so today; I statement on a wider review of student visas? Only am signalling that there will be an opportunity. We all seven months after the rules were changed, all the know that every week in this House we need an opportunity language schools, particularly those in Bournemouth to raise questions about Afghanistan, and we will ensure and Poole, are very upset about some of the proposals, that next week, on the important occasion of the President which could mean their closure. That would be devastating of the United States making his comments, we will be for the local economy. consistent on the matter and ensure the House has the opportunity it needs. Ms Harman: I will refer this matter to my hon. Friend As for the debate on the pre-Budget report, the point the Minister for Borders and Immigration and ask him here is the substance, not the form. The question is this: to write to the hon. Gentleman on that specific issue. will the House have a chance to debate the issues raised on the pre-Budget report? The question is not about what form that will take, but about the substance, and I Julie Morgan (Cardiff, North) (Lab): May I draw my would say that it will be possible to raise the substance right hon. and learned Friend’s attention to the threat on Second Reading of the fiscal responsibility Bill. I to 200 very successful jobs in Llanishen in my constituency? have looked at these issues carefully and I am satisfied The jobs are in Pelican Healthcare and Great Bear that that will be the case. Healthcare, which make disposable medical products Obviously, the point of Report stage of the Equality for the whole of the UK. Those jobs are at risk because Bill is not simply to repeat the 30 hours of debate that of the differences in electronic prescribing practices have already taken place—there has already been careful between Wales and the rest of the UK. May we have a scrutiny by those who served on the Committee—but to debate on the anomalies that are threatening those jobs deal with issues that have come forward from Committee. in my constituency? As I have said, my hon. and learned Friend the Solicitor- General has ensured that the House can see the Ms Harman: I know that my hon. Friend is foremost Government’s proposals for Report. I hope the Bill will in defending the jobs of people who live in her constituency, have the full backing of the House. and I will raise that issue with the Health Secretary As for the Copenhagen summit and the Energy Bill, and ask him to liaise with his Welsh counterparts and the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine with her. (Sir Robert Smith) will know that the Prime Minister will be attending Copenhagen—as will President Obama, which is welcome news. Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): May we have an urgent debate on climate change and civil liberties, and On the subject of the Flood and Water Management in particular, the right of British people to eat beef Bill, there was a statement in the House last week, and wherever and whenever they want? Does she agree that the Prime Minister dealt with the question of the floods. trying to stop British people eating beef is like trying to We will be introducing that Bill—and obviously, we pay stop the French eating cheese? tribute to all those who are working to protect people in the flood-stricken community in Cumbria. Ms Harman: We want to eat healthily, tackle climate Several hon. Members rose— change and be nice to animals, and we have to work Mr. Speaker: Order. No fewer than 42 right hon. and together on all those issues. hon. Members are seeking to catch my eye—a record in my limited experience to date—and the House will be Gwyn Prosser (Dover) (Lab): I heard what the Leader conscious that the continuation of the Queen’s Speech of the House said about the Equality Bill programme, debate, to which there are lots of willing contributors, but what will she do to ensure that we debate the will follow, so I appeal again to each right hon. or hon. important amendments that would end the scandalous Member to ask a single short supplementary question, exploitation of seafarers, which happens even when and of course, to the Leader of the House to offer us a they are sailing on British ships between British ports? pithy reply. This is an issue that needs addressing. 687 Business of the House26 NOVEMBER 2009 Business of the House 688

Ms Harman: I know that my hon. Friend, as Member John Battle (Leeds, West) (Lab): Before the introduction of Parliament for Dover, is an outstanding champion of the flagship National Minimum Wage Act 1998, the for those who work in the ports and seafarers. I understand Government set up the Low Pay Commission. May I that he has already arranged a meeting with the Solicitor- draw my right hon. and learned Friend’s attention to General to see what progress can be made on this issue. early-day motion 191, which is supported by Members on both sides of the House? Mr. Mark Lancaster (North-East Milton Keynes) [That this House believes that the Government should (Con): May we have a debate on education so that we establish a High Pay Commission to examine the effects can discuss the problems faced by Radcliffe school in of high pay on the economy and society; acknowledges Milton Keynes, whose future is uncertain because the that over the last 30 years median earners have seen Secretary of State is refusing to make his mind up about incomes increase at less than the average while the super-rich whether it should become an academy? including UK chief executive officers have seen their pay increase to 76 times that of the average worker; notes Ms Harman: I will raise that issue with my right hon. three main concerns over the effect of high pay in Britain: Friend the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and the link between excessive pay and the financial crash, the Families and ask him to write to the hon. Gentleman. If questionable link between economic performance and hon. Members want to raise questions about an individual high pay and the social effects of inequality due to the school with me, they will get a more complete answer if increase of wealth concentrated at the top of society; and they give me notification in advance. Indeed, following calls for a public inquiry to bring all of the facts, evidence that practice might have saved the Leader of the Opposition and arguments into the public domain.] yesterday. I urge my right hon. and learned Friend to provide Government time to debate that issue, to enable us to Mr. Ian McCartney (Makerfield) (Lab): May I apologise vote to set up a high pay commission so that we can to you, Mr. Speaker, and to the House for my earlier tackle widening wage inequalities as a matter of urgency. yellow-card offence? Will my right hon. and learned Friend clarify that the Ms Harman: There will be a debate this afternoon on Government intend to table amendments to the Crime the Queen’s Speech, to be led by the Chancellor of the and Security Bill, which we will consider in the new Exchequer, in which those issues can be raised. We need year, to introduce a compensation scheme for the victims to ensure that top pay does not spiral out of control not of Mumbai, Bali, Sharm el-Sheikh and other international only in the private sector but in the public sector. terrorist atrocities against British citizens, and to close the loophole that disbars them from compensation? The Government gave a promise. Will my right hon. Mr. Ian Liddell-Grainger (Bridgwater) (Con): and learned Friend make it clear today—of all days, as Notwithstanding climate change and beef eating, may it is the first anniversary of the Mumbai atrocities—that we have a general debate on farming? Any change in that will be done? stocking levels in places such as Exmoor and the levels will be devastating for management, and it will have an Ms Harman: My right hon. Friend is very persistent, impact across the United Kingdom if the Government and he has shown that in raising this issue for the change their policy on beef eating. second time this morning. It is a very serious issue, and we are at an advanced stage in considering the options Ms Harman: There is no policy change on beef for including provision for a compensation scheme for eating, so the hon. Gentleman should not be alarmed. victims of overseas terrorism in the Crime and Security Bill. Compensation is available for victims of terrorism in this country, but my right hon. Friend is raising the Martin Salter (Reading, West) (Lab): May we look case of victims of terrorism abroad, and the gap in the forward to an early and positive response to all the system. We are taking steps to deal with that. recommendations in the comparatively short and clear report from the Wright Committee, on which it was my Lynne Featherstone (Hornsey and Wood Green) (LD): privilege to serve? May I urge the parliamentarian of In business questions on 16 July the Leader of the the year to stand firm against the dark forces on both House said that the Solicitor-General would discuss the Government Front Bench and the Opposition Front how to handle the Equality Bill on Report, and would Bench who are already lobbying hard against a Back-Bench consult Members. No consultation has taken place and business committee, which is vital if this House is to we will have only one day, which is completely inadequate. re-establish public respect and control over its own Members on both sides of the House have tabled affairs? amendments that need to be debated. Will she ensure that they are debated? Ms Harman: We all recognise that, as well as restoring public confidence by dealing with the abuse of expenses Ms Harman: Amendments and new clauses have by a very few Members, we also need to strengthen the been tabled, and I am sure that they will receive sufficient work of the House. The Wright Committee—I pay debate. There have been discussions. We do does not tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Reading, usually go into what happens through the usual channels, West (Martin Salter) for his work on that Committee—will but I am confident that the substance and issues that be an important step in improving the way in which the need to be debated will be, and we can then all focus on House works, and thereby in restoring and strengthening putting the contents of the Bill into practice. public confidence. 689 Business of the House26 NOVEMBER 2009 Business of the House 690

Mr. Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con): May I add my Ms Harman: I will ask Business Ministers to liaise support to the calls for a general debate on farming? In with the hon. Gentleman about whether anything could 2000 there were 1,144 dairy farms in Lancashire; today or should be done about this. there are 634—a drop of 45 per cent. There has been a similar drop in my constituency. The Leader of the Mr. Chris Mullin (Sunderland, South) (Lab): May I House knows how important dairy farming is for food press my right hon. and learned Friend again on the security and the environment. Please may we have an Reform of the House of Commons Committee? She early debate? will know that the window of opportunity is narrow and the forces of inertia are great. Can she give the Ms Harman: I stress the importance of dairy farming House an assurance that measures to implement the and beef farming; I hope that my rather flippant answer proposals will be introduced before Prorogation? earlier will not be taken be amiss. There is no intention to change policy: we strongly support not only healthy Ms Harman: I can give my hon. Friend the assurance eating and tackling climate change, but farming and the that having set up the Committee we are very impressed countryside. with the work that is being taken forward by my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright). Mr. Tom Watson (West Bromwich, East) (Lab): The We welcome the report. We are pleased by how quickly impressive Boing Boing website tells us that the Secretary the Committee has been able to reach its conclusion, by of State for Business, Innovation and Skills is seeking to how substantial that report is, about how it has set out take delegated powers to allow him to amend the Copyright, the process for how the report should be dealt with, as Designs and Patents Act 1988. When will the Digital well as about the substance of the change that the Economy Bill reach this House so that we can make the report asks for. It was published only two days ago, and case for an independent regulator to do that job, and we will bring forward our proposals on how to deal with certainly not a politician? its consideration. We instigated this report, and we want to see changes brought forward. Ms Harman: I—[Interruption.] I am sure I had that in my notes somewhere. Oh yes, here it is: the Digital Anne Main (St. Albans) (Con): Thanks to your good Economy Bill, which was announced in the Queen’s offices, Mr. Speaker, an urgent question about First Speech, was published on 19 November. Capital Connect was answered by the Secretary of State for Transport, who said that he would monitor the situation. Since then, the disruption on its routes has Mr. Lee Scott (Ilford, North) (Con): Will the Leader spread and the operation of its timetable is still severely of the House consider having a debate on the amount compromised. When can we have a debate on this of money being paid out in medical negligence claims, problem and about the franchises that are causing it? which has ballooned in recent years? Ms Harman: It is Transport questions next week, so I Ms Harman: The Department of Health keeps under suggest that the hon. Lady raises that matter with review the amounts paid out by the national health Transport Ministers. service in medical negligence claims. We want to ensure that patient safety is such that patients are not the Mr. Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Is victims of medical negligence. That is what the starting my right hon. and learned Friend aware of the corrosive point should be. It is not just a question of saving the campaign that is being run against the BBC by the NHS money; it is a question of protecting the health of Rupert Murdoch empire of BSkyB and News International, patients. The best way to reduce medical negligence in league with the Conservative party? Can we have an pay-outs is to reduce medical negligence, and that is early debate about the independence of the BBC and something on which all the professions involved in how important it is not to sell off large chunks of it? medicine and the Department of Health work closely. Ms Harman: There is a major point of substance in Mr. Gordon Prentice (Pendle) (Lab): We read that a my hon. Friend’s question. We want to defend strongly News of the World reporter bullied by the then editor, the BBC and public service broadcasting, and not allow Andy Coulson, won a staggering £800,000 at an it to be picked apart in order that somebody who does employment tribunal this week. May we have an early not even live in this country should make a whacking debate on workplace bullying to underline the fact that profit. it is unacceptable, no matter where it comes from? Mr. Michael Jack (Fylde) (Con): In The Times this Ms Harman: I agree and I will have to reflect on how morning, an indication was given that the Government that can be brought forward in the business of the may be trebling the level of their telephone tax in House. connection with broadband extension, and that the details of this were to be published in a finance Bill Greg Mulholland (Leeds, North-West) (LD): Tetley’s scheduled for early in the new year. Can the Leader of ales have been brewed in Leeds since 1822, but now the the House tell us whether precedent will be broken in parent company, Carlsberg, is seeking to close the brewery that a finance Bill will be published ahead of a Budget, and brew under licence at another brewery, rumoured and if so, what does early in the new year mean? to be Black Sheep in Marsham. May we have a debate on honesty in product promotion? Tetley’s can only be a Ms Harman: I am afraid that I am not in a position to Leeds beer if brewed in Leeds with Leeds water: anything answer what is obviously a serious point raised by the else would not be Tetley’s. right hon. Gentleman, so I will have to write to him 691 Business of the House26 NOVEMBER 2009 Business of the House 692 about it. However, I would say again that if he is going was not seen as necessary. A letter was sent to Opposition to raise something that I might not be able to predict, spokespeople about this on 12 November, and there will he be able to predict that I cannot predict it and have been no objections from Front Benchers. make sure that he tells me in advance? [Interruption.] No, I see that that is not so. Ignore what I have just said—I will look into it. Mr. Lindsay Hoyle (Chorley) (Lab): I wonder whether the Leader of the House would not only support, quite Mr. David Chaytor (Bury, North) (Lab): The peak of rightly, the Government’s objective in rolling out high-speed UK oil production in the North sea was passed some broadband for everyone, but an important experiment years ago. In recent weeks, a growing number of that is to take place in Swinton, where we are going to international experts have said they believe that the have free WiFi. Will she support the provision of free peak of global oil production may already have been WiFi in the Chorley and South Ribble constituencies as passed. There is a growing consensus that in 2012 there a north versus south experiment, and could we have a will be a crunch in oil supply across the planet, with all debate on that? the terrifying consequences for global security and national economies. Will the Government give the same kind of Ms Harman: I will draw my hon. Friend’s point to the international leadership on the issue of oil depletion as attention of Business Ministers. I think that progress on they have given on climate change, and can we have a the digital economy will offer huge opportunities for all debate in Government time on the economic consequences areas of the country, and I know that he will want his of oil depletion? constituency to benefit from it. Ms Harman: My hon. Friend makes a number of Christopher Fraser (South-West Norfolk) (Con): I very important points, and I will raise them with the have called for a debate on 2012 Olympics on many relevant Ministers. occasions, and each time the Leader of the House fobs me off. Given the astronomical cost of the event and the Dr. William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): In the fact that the chairman of the Olympic Delivery Authority light of the recent increase in dissident republican attacks has said, in Northern Ireland, the murder bid on a young police “Next year is set to be our toughest yet as activity on site officer in Fermanagh, and the bomb planted outside reaches a peak”, the Policing Board in Belfast, can the Leader of the will the Leader of the House give time for this important House find time to have an urgent debate on the security debate as early as possible so that we can discuss in this situation in Northern Ireland and the threat that that Chamber the true cost of that event? poses to the peace of the United Kingdom?

Ms Harman: As well as raising these issues with the Ms Harman: The whole House would want to share Olympics Minister during Question Time, he can take the hopes for the peace process, which is supported by the opportunity to do so when the Chancellor comes to the overwhelming majority of people on all sides in the Dispatch Box as soon as business questions is Northern Ireland. Those who support any party, and finished. those who support none, all support the peace process except a very small minority who should not be allowed Keith Vaz (Leicester, East) (Lab): May I support the to prevail. I will discuss with the Secretary of State for call by the hon. Member for North-East Milton Keynes Northern Ireland whether he supports the hon. Gentleman’s (Mr. Lancaster) for a debate on education so that we view that there should be a debate at this stage. Obviously, can discuss the concept of “hard” and “soft” federations? we want to be able to ensure that the House can One of my local schools, Rushey Mead, is the best scrutinise the work of the Northern Ireland Office and performing in the city, and it is to be federated with a that hon. Members can debate and air their views, but school that is the worst performing. Does the Leader of we also want to ensure, above all, that we do what is the House agree that consultation with parents is absolutely conducive to the peace process. vital in our education system? Mr. Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): In the light Ms Harman: It is Department for Children, Schools of today’s Daily Mirror report, and that of The Independent and Families questions next week, so I suggest that the last week, about the buying of influence in the Caribbean schools Secretary is the right person to ask that question. and in Britain, can we have an early debate on that monster from the Caribbean deep, namely Lord Ashcroft, Mr. Andrew Mackay (Bracknell) (Con): In every single and his influence on politics—[Interruption.] previous year, the appropriate Secretary of State has come to the Dispatch Box to give an oral statement on Mr. Speaker: Order. I say very gently to the right the local government settlement, and there has been, hon. Gentleman, who is an immensely experienced entirely separately, a pre-Budget report from the Chancellor. parliamentarian, that moderation in the use of language Why is that not happening this year, and what have the in the Chamber is always desirable. Whatever he thinks Government got to hide? about the noble Lord, he should not call him a monster.

Ms Harman: I understand that there has been cross-party Mr. MacShane: If “monster”is now an unparliamentary discussion on this, and there is an answer. [Interruption.] term, Mr. Speaker, then we are limiting our vocabulary. This is a serious point. This settlement is the final one of May we have an early debate on this gentlemen, who the first three-year settlements, and it is unchanged forces right hon. Members on the Opposition Benches from January 2008. Therefore, following discussions to dissemble on his tax status and uses gagging writs to with Opposition Front Benchers, the usual procedure intimidate newspapers. It is only in the House of Commons 693 Business of the House26 NOVEMBER 2009 Business of the House 694

[Mr. MacShane] Ministers or seek to catch your eye, Mr. Speaker, in the debate that will follow immediately after business that this man’s corroding and, I believe, corrupt influence questions. on Caribbean and British politics can be debated and explored. [Interruption.] Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): The Leader of the House will be aware that a number of changes to the Mr. Speaker: Order. The right hon. Gentleman has membership of Select Committees proposed by the put his views very firmly on the record, but I urge him Committee of Selection have been objected to and as a not to use the word “corrupt”—I do not like it. result not passed in this House. Will she make Government time available to decide the membership of Select Ms Harman: There are Foreign and Commonwealth Committees? Office questions next week, at which issues to do with the Caribbean could be raised. Ms Harman: As my hon. Friend the Deputy Leader of the House reminds me, there is to be an Adjournment Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con): I am sure debate on that subject shortly, and of course we asked that the Leader of the House is ready for me to ask a the Reform of the House of Commons Committee to question about Buncefield, as the fourth anniversary is examine the selection of Chairmen and members of next week. May we have a debate on the safety of oil Select Committees. Good work has been done on that, depots in this country? I am sure that the House will be and I am sure that the points that concern my hon. surprised that even though the oil depot is completely Friend and hon. Members throughout the House will cleared—it is a clean piece of land apart from the be addressed. pollution—the control of major accident hazards safety licence still exists, and thus the oil companies can rebuild Mark Hunter (Cheadle) (LD): Not content with ripping it any time they wish. May we have a debate on how the off their customers with extortionate charges, high street safety of our communities is affected by COMAH banks now want to charge people for accessing their licences? own money via cash machines. If that is not bad enough, they are also, despite protests from business and community Ms Harman: I will ask my ministerial colleagues to groups, planning to abolish the cheque. Does the Leader liaise directly with the hon. Gentleman on his specific of the House agree that it is about time that the banks point about Buncefield. I know that from his constituency were reminded that their job is to serve their customers, experience, he will have had great reason to thank and not the other way round? Will she find time for a debate pay tribute to the fire services, and I should like to take on these urgent issues? this opportunity to pay my tribute to them, as they have done a remarkable job in my constituency this morning. Ms Harman: Many people will have been very More than 150 people had to be evacuated because disappointed that the case against the banks in relation there was a massive fire, which spread from a derelict to charges on overdrafts and other matters did not site and set fire to a block of flats in which they were succeed in the Supreme Court, but that does not let the asleep in their beds. We are very hopeful that no life will banks off the hook. People can apply for ex gratia and be lost, and if that is the case it will be an absolute discretionary payments, and the Government are absolutely tribute to the fire services. I will raise the issue of determined to ensure that we give every protection to Buncefield with my ministerial colleagues. the consumer. The banks need the trust and confidence of the public, and they need to do a good job. They are the lifeblood of small business and support the economy, Mrs. Ann Cryer (Keighley) (Lab): May we have an and they should not be ripping the country off. early debate on changes to immigration regulations to prevent mainly young men from acting as sponsors of a Mr. Graham Allen (Nottingham, North) (Lab): In wife from abroad following the acquisition of indefinite respect of the Wright Committee on the reform of the leave to remain and possibly an Islamic divorce? House of Commons and the “signals” that my right hon. and learned Friend talked about earlier, she will Ms Harman: That might well be worth raising at recall that the Committee is the first in this House to be Foreign Office questions next week. I pay tribute to my elected secretly by Members of all parties. She will also hon. Friend for her work in protecting vulnerable women know that it has reported in record time. However, the from being pushed into marriages and exploited. signal was that the setting up of the Committee was delayed until two days before the House rose for the Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con): In summer recess. Will she take this opportunity to be very supporting the responsible calls for a further day on the clear about when the House will not debate but decide Equality Bill, may I make a request of the Leader of yes or no on some of the recommendations? May I offer the House for a debate on the textile industry? In 1997, her this stage on which to make the most enthusiastic the number of employees in the industry in Great signal possible about the reform of this House? Britain stood at 313,000. By 2007, it had been reduced to just 93,000. It is a strategic industry, so may we have a Ms Harman: I have always supported positive reform topical debate on it at an early date? of this House since I came into it in 1982, when it needed massive change. I have always played my part in Ms Harman: The textile industry is indeed an important being an agent for change, not for the status quo. This part of our manufacturing, which is a very important House is very good, but it could do with improvement. I part of our economy. I suggest that the hon. Gentleman take the opportunity that my hon. Friend has given me could take the opportunity to raise the issue with Treasury to thank him for his work on the Committee and his 695 Business of the House26 NOVEMBER 2009 Business of the House 696 consistent work on this agenda. I know that he was part Ms Harman: That is an issue that I have discussed of Parliament First, which instigated the Committee. with the Secretary of State for Communities and Local One reason why people are pleased with the Committee’s Government, and I will see whether there is an opportunity work is that it is chaired not by myself as Leader of the to discuss not only the work of firefighters but fire House and a member of the Government but by a Back prevention. Bencher, and that its members were elected. It therefore has great credibility in the House, and we look forward Mr. Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Although we to bringing the matter forward for debate. all recognise that individual police officers do their best in very difficult circumstances, may we have a debate in Government time on the recent report from the chief Paul Holmes (Chesterfield) (LD): Yesterday, the Select inspector of constabulary, which states that British Committee on Children, Schools and Families visited a policing has lost its way due to the noise and clutter of children’s centre in a deprived area of London. One of Government targets, initiatives and new laws? the key problems that the staff identified was the lack of council housing, leaving children and their families Ms Harman: And indeed that might be an opportunity living in expensive, overpriced, damp, often temporary for us to discuss his belief that if there were elected and unsuitable private accommodation. May we have a representatives of the police, it would totally trample debate on the need to fund a massive programme of over the very important and valuable operational council house building? The 3,000 council houses independence of the police. That might be something announced by the Government will do nothing to tackle that we look for a topical debate on shortly. a waiting list that has gone up from 1 million in 1997 to 2 million today. Mr. Douglas Hogg (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con): May I reiterate the request by the shadow Leader Ms Harman: I strongly agree with the sentiments that of the House for a free-standing debate on Afghanistan? lie behind the hon. Gentleman’s comments. That is why There is a real sense of drift, about which we are all we have introduced the decent homes standard, under deeply concerned. We need to know more about the which homes in my constituency in London have been Government’s strategy for handing over security to the renovated and improved, damp tackled, roofs repaired Afghan national forces and about their sense of a and better lifts and windows put in, and why we have timetable. made it a public spending priority to have more public Ms Harman: The right hon. and learned Gentleman home building. That is important not only for those might have a sense of drift, but the Government do not. who will live in those homes but to support the building We are absolutely clear on the military, political and industry as the economy comes out of recession. Such economic strategies, and we ensure that, every week, projects would not be possible under the Opposition’s there is an opportunity for Members to express their plans, nor, I am afraid, if we went forward with savage views on, and ask about, Afghanistan. It is one of the cuts in public spending, as the leader of the hon. foremost priorities for the Government and the country, Gentleman’s party suggests. so it is a foremost priority for the House. Mr. Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): Who is Stewart Hosie (Dundee, East) (SNP): One of the preventing the Leader of the House from doing the strange reasons that the Government are now using to decent thing and announcing today a guarantee that we justify their decision not to transfer responsibility for will be able to vote on the Wright Committee report air weapons to the Scottish Parliament, which was a before the end of January? Calman recommendation, is that there is no legal definition of an air gun. To be helpful, therefore, and to avoid Ms Harman: I have said that the normal time for such student politics and school-boy errors, will she debating this sort of report is not two days after it has have the appropriate Minister explain to her colleagues been published but within two months. I have said that I the precise purpose and workings of part 2 of the welcome the report, and we respect its depth and reach. Firearms (Amendment) Rules 2007 entitled “Particulars We will need to consider it, and then we will bring the relating to air weapons”? Will the Government get on matter forward to the House. I hope that hon. Members with transferring the responsibilities and stop making will not talk themselves into a sense of mistrust and silly excuses? anxiety, because there is no need for it. We brought to Ms Harman: The Government have undertaken an the House the resolutions to set up the Committee and unprecedented devolution of power so that there can be identify its members. We have asked for this work to be what has been described as Scottish solutions to Scottish done, it has been, and we will take it forward with the problems and so that Scottish people can make the agreement of the House. decisions affecting them in their Parliament. The depiction of us as being on the back foot over this agenda cannot Richard Younger-Ross (Teignbridge) (LD): A few weeks be right. I do not know the technical issues about ago, there was a tragic death in a social housing property firearms, but I am sure that the matter has been looked in Torquay—I understand because there was no smoke into very carefully. However, I am also sure that if the detection. By contrast, last week in my constituency hon. Gentleman requested it, he could have a meeting Steve Pettit was saved by his neighbour Mike Maynard, with the Secretary of State for Scotland. who heard a smoke detector, broke into the flat and rescued him. Considering the praise by the Leader of Mr. Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con): May I the House for the fire services a few questions ago, may take the Leader of the House back to the Equality Bill, we have an urgent debate on the need for smoke and fire about which I wrote to her yesterday? I also phoned her detection in social housing? private office to draw the matter to its attention, so I 697 Business of the House26 NOVEMBER 2009 Business of the House 698

[Mr. Mark Harper] that point. It is a point of substance and we want to ensure that the agency takes representations where hope that it drew it to hers. She gave a cast-iron commitment appropriate. in the House—Official Report, 25 June 2009, column 962 —to open negotiations with Opposition parties. To Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): The ballot date, neither she nor the Solicitor-General have had for private Members’ Bills is taking place today, and those discussions either with Opposition Front-Bench several Members will be extremely happy. What they Members or through the usual channels about the perhaps do not know is that in item five of today’s timetable—[Interruption.] Order Paper, the Government are trying to change Standing Orders so that the number of days allocated Mr. Speaker: Order. I say to the right hon. Member to private Members’ Bills will effectively be reduced for Bracknell (Mr. Mackay) that he is an immensely from 13 to six. May we have a proper debate on that and experienced Member. It is plain bad manners to witter prevent the Government from sneaking it through at away when another colleague is addressing the House. the end of the day? Ms Harman: It is anticipated to be a shorter Session, Mr. Harper: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Leader of so this is a question of proportionality. the House gave those commitments, but those discussions have not happened. She repeated again this morning Dr. Evan Harris (Oxford, West and Abingdon) (LD): that they have taken place, but they have not. I suggest Under the right hon. and learned Lady’s leadership of that those negotiations be opened by her, that they take the House, fewer new clauses and amendments—including place and that we ensure adequate time to discuss to her Equality Bill—have been reached, debated and the Bill. voted on than under any other Leader of the House in history. Is she not embarrassed by that, and does she Ms Harman: I am sure that Members who are concerned not recognise that the way to deal with the embarrassment about the Equality Bill, who want to play a part on is to provide the time needed on her Equality Bill—the Report and who played a part in Committee will be able exemplar—and to accept the recommendations in the to talk to the Bill Minister about how the debate will be Wright Committee report to deal with the problem so arranged. However, in my view there has been sufficient that the House gets to scrutinise in legislation what it debate prior to, and in, Committee and there will be needs to, rather than the Government choosing what sufficient debate on Report. If hon. Members who are the House scrutinises? spending so much time raising the question about the debate in the House spent that much time outside the Ms Harman: Obviously, the House must scrutinise all House campaigning for equality, we would all be much Bills and it must do so effectively. Also, the Government, nearer our goals. elected and commanding a majority in the House, must get its business. One of the bits of business that we want Mr. Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD): to get through not only the House of Commons, but the May we have an early debate on the work of the UK House of Lords, is the Equality Bill. I know that the Border Agency, which would doubtless allow many hon. Gentleman supports it, and I look forward to a hon. Members the opportunity to ventilate their frustrations good debate on Report. in dealing with what is probably one of the most inefficient and inhumane agencies of government? It would also Mr. Rob Wilson (Reading, East) (Con): May we have allow someone from the Home Office to explain why a statement from the Secretary of State for Culture, the agency will not engage with, or take representations Media and Sport regarding England’s 2018 World cup from, Members of the Legislative Assembly in Northern bid? Football fans across the nation cannot fail to have Ireland or Assembly Members in Wales, despite taking noticed the rancour, division and bitterness that is representations from MSPs. Surely it is not for bureaucrats dominating the bid. Should the Secretary of State not to determine to whom people should turn when faced be banging some heads together? with the intransigence of such an agency. Ms Harman: I shall raise that point with the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport. Ms Harman: The UK Border Agency has a very big responsibility on behalf of people in this country and Mr. Speaker: I would like to thank and congratulate has greatly improved the work that it does. The hon. right hon. and hon. Members. No fewer than 44 Back- Gentleman raised a point about those from whom it Bench Members have questioned the Leader of the will receive separate representations, and I will ask House, which in my experience is a record. It is a tribute ministerial colleagues in the Home Office to deal with to both succinctness and a co-operative spirit. 699 26 NOVEMBER 2009 700

Points of Order I made clear to the right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr. MacShane) at the time my disapproval of his immoderate language, and I think it would be better if 12.27 pm the word were simply withdrawn. As in so many things, Mrs. Caroline Spelman (Meriden) (Con): On a point there is precedent on the subject: specifically, “Erskine of order, Mr. Speaker. In response to a question from May” pages 438 and 439, which exhort Members to my right hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell recognise that reflections must not be cast upon the (Mr. Mackay), the Leader of the House just said that conduct of Members of either House except on a cross-party discussions were held about issuing the local substantive motion. No such substantive motion had government finance settlement as a written ministerial been tabled or was in play on this occasion. The right statement, rather than an oral statement. May I confirm hon. Member for Rotherham is no longer in his place, that that is not the case? She implied that, because this but I feel sure that my ruling, the observation of the is the third of a triennial settlement, there is in essence right hon. Member for Bracknell (Mr. Mackay) and no need for an oral statement. However, last year—the the wider sentiment of the House will have registered second year—there was an oral statement. Do you with him. agree, Mr. Speaker, that departing from the custom in Mr. Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): On a point the House of having an oral statement on local government of order, Mr. Speaker. You were in the Chair yesterday finance would deny Members a chance to raise questions when I raised with the Chancellor a very serious matter: with the Government about the level of the grant that namely, that contrary to precedent, having issued an their authorities receive? indemnity to the tune of £62 billion to HBOS and RBS, and having chosen to do it in secret—his choice—he did Mr. Speaker: Before I respond to the hon. Lady, not inform me as the Chairman of the Public Accounts given that the Leader of the House is here, I shall let her Committee or the Chairman of the Treasury Committee. put her two penn’orth in. The Chancellor told me in reply that he did not need to do so because of legislation. That legislation was not on The Leader of the House of Commons (Ms Harriet the statute book till some months after he issued the Harman): Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. indemnity. In any event, it covers a different sort of As I understand it, the Secretary of State for Communities transaction. That is a serious matter. Nobody in Parliament and Local Government wrote—perhaps he did not have was informed, even in confidence, of what was going verbal discussions—to Opposition Front-Bench on, contrary to ancient traditions and conventions. spokespeople on 12 November explaining the course of May I write to you in detail and ask you to defend the action that he intended to take, but has since received privileges of the House? no notice of objections. Hon. Members and other interested parties have the opportunity to make their views known Mr. Speaker: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his during the consultation period. point of order. As the Chancellor of the Exchequer is with us—[Interruption.] Order. As the right hon. Several hon. Members rose— Gentleman is with us, I offer him the opportunity to respond if he wishes. Mr. Speaker: Order. Before I take other points of The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Alistair Darling): order, I should say, on the basis of hearing the hon. I am very grateful to you, Mr. Speaker. I anticipated the Member for Meriden (Mrs. Spelman) and the Leader of hon. Gentleman’s point of order, not least because he the House, that a charitable interpretation would be wrote to me earlier today—he will, of course, get a that there has been something of a breakdown in reply. It is right that the Banking Act 2009 came into communication. I also say to the hon. Member for force during the course of this year. However, when I Meriden that instinctively I am always keen that there replied to him yesterday, I made the general point that be the maximum opportunity for matters to be debated such operations are conducted by the Bank of England. properly on the Floor of the House. However, my Yes, of course I issued an indemnity for reasons that I generosity of spirit is not the only factor involved, and explained yesterday, but the operations were not disclosed she will know that, I am afraid, I do not determine such because, as I set out yesterday, of the prevailing conditions matters. They are determined between the usual channels, at the time. I said that the decision about when we and it would not be right for me to seek to second-guess disclosed the matter publicly was a fine one, although I those channels or indeed the Leader of the House. remained of the view that the Governor was right. Clearly, I will reflect on the procedures for advising the Mr. Andrew Mackay (Bracknell) (Con): On a point of Chairman of the Treasury Committee and the Chairman order, Mr. Speaker. You will have clearly heard earlier of the Public Accounts Committee, because it must be the right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr. MacShane) right that Parliament is kept informed, but equally it refer to a Member of the other place as “corrupt”. That has to be right that, especially in the tempestuous was not only wrong, but unparliamentary. The right conditions we had just over 12 months ago, we had hon. Gentleman has now left the Chamber. What regard to the effectiveness of the Bank’s operations. I arrangements can be made for him to return to the will reflect on what the hon. Gentleman said. I would, Chamber and withdraw the unwarranted remarks? of course, have said exactly the same had he chosen to intervene on my speech, which I hope to make in the Mr. Speaker: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman not-too-distant future. for that point of order. [Interruption.] Order. The House must calm down a bit. The right hon. Gentleman has Mr. Speaker: I am grateful to the Chancellor of the raised an important point of order, to which I would Exchequer for that considered and reasonable reply. As like to respond. He has raised a very important matter. Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, the hon. 701 26 NOVEMBER 2009 702

[Mr. Speaker] Mr. Speaker: Very briefly.

Member for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh) has immense Dr. Harris: Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. experience of the subject, and that should be respected. I apologise for not making my question clear enough. He has explained—and the Chancellor has confirmed—that My point of order is not about the amount of time, but there is correspondence between them. The hon. Member the assertion that discussions had taken place. If that for Gainsborough has written to the Chancellor, and I remains on the record and is not the case, the House is think that he should await the reply with eager anticipation, in the position of being misled. Those discussions did and I should be grateful it he copied me in on it. Let us not take place. Will not the Leader of the House correct see where that takes us. the record? John McFall (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op): Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I support Mr. Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I the covert operations, but I fear that perhaps next week, understand what he is saying, but I still maintain that at a report from the National Audit Office will be published, stake is essentially a disagreement about who said what, which indicates that the £61 billion had been given. when and whether it was reflected in practice. That is Given that the Governor of the Bank of England not a matter for me. If the Leader of the House wants disclosed that at a Treasury Committee sitting, I fear to come back on the hon. Gentleman’s point, she is free that the Bank of England and the Treasury have been to do that. I give her one last chance, but she is not caught with their fingers in the till. There is a serious under any obligation to do so. I do not think that she question mark over public and parliamentary relations wants to say anything further, and she is under no in the Treasury and the Bank of England. Given that obligation to do that. the loans were repaid in January 2009, I do not understand why they were not disclosed. I feel that both Parliament Mr. Andrew Pelling (Croydon, Central) (Ind): On a and the Select Committees have been short-changed. point of order, Mr. Speaker. On the continuing discussions There is a need for a protocol that affects Select Committees about the usual channels, it is surely important for the and Parliament. I look forward to its being developed House’s reputation that Back Benchers, particularly as a result of the correspondence. independent Back Benchers, are given the opportunity to speak on issues such as the local government financial Mr. Speaker: The right hon. Gentleman is a distinguished settlement. In places such as Croydon, we get the minimum Chairman of the Treasury Committee, and it is therefore increase in grant, and we have extra asylum seekers to with sadness that I have to tell him that, although he has deal with because of changes in Government policy. put his views firmly on the record, they did not amount Can you advise me on the way in which the usual to a point of order. I know that he will not in any way channels can start being used for the benefit of the seek to entice me to participate in a debate on policy. House rather than for ensuring that Back Benchers do Any impression that might have been conveyed to that not get the chance to contribute? effect is certainly accidental. Dr. Evan Harris (Oxford, West and Abingdon) (LD): Mr. Speaker: I am grateful for what the hon. Gentleman On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In business questions has said. I am always seeking to champion the rights of a few minutes ago, in response to my hon. Friend the Back Benchers, and it is always a pleasure to hear his Member for Hornsey and Wood Green (Lynne views. Featherstone), the Leader of the House said that discussions We now proceed to the main business—[Interruption.] had taken place about the timing of the Equality Bill, as If the hon. Member for Taunton (Mr. Browne) would she promised in an earlier business questions session. allow us to proceed with the main business, that would However, I have it on good authority from the Deputy greatly assist us. Chief Whip of the Conservative party, the Conservative spokesman on the Bill, our spokespeople on the Bill and the Chief Whip of the Liberal Democrats that no such discussions with spokespeople or the usual channels have taken place. Would it be in order for you to invite CORPORATION TAX BILL the Leader of the House to withdraw her assertion that Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing discussions had taken place? Otherwise, something that Order No. 60(2)), has the effect of misleading the House is left on the That the Corporation Tax Bill be proceeded with as a tax law record. rewrite Bill.—(Kerry McCarthy.) Mr. Speaker: Unfortunately, I do not think that it Question agreed to. would be in order. The hon. Gentleman is engaged in a rather rebarbative pursuit of a point of difference with the Leader of the House. He has placed his views very clearly on the record—they will be intelligible, I hope, to TAXATION (INTERNATIONAL AND OTHER all hon. Members. The amount of time that is allocated PROVISIONS) BILL is a matter for the usual channels. The hon. Gentleman Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing makes his view clear. I have indicated my preference for Order No. 60(2)), maximum debate, but I know my place, and such matters That the Taxation (International and Other Provisions) Bill be are not, sadly, determined by me. proceeded with as a tax law rewrite Bill.—(Kerry McCarthy.) Dr. Harris rose— Question agreed to. 703 26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 704

Debate on the Address Britain still in recession when the rest of the world is recovering? Why is Britain still in recession when America, France, Germany, Japan, Italy, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, [6TH DAY] the Czech Republic, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Debate resumed (Order, 25 November). Poland, Portugal, Russia, Sweden and virtually every Question again proposed, single other country in the world have come out of That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, as recession? The Government have absolutely no answers. follows: Most Gracious Sovereign, Mr. Jeremy Browne (Taunton) (LD) rose— We, YourMajesty’s most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Mr. Osborne: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman does. in Parliament assembled, beg leave to offer our humble thanks to Your Majesty for the Gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament. Mr. Browne: Given that the state of the British economy is as bad as the hon. Gentleman describes, why is it that I am unequivocally in favour of Labour losing the next The Economy and Business, Innovation and general election, but the right hon. and learned Member Skills for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke), who is winding up the debate, does not share my view? Mr. Speaker: I inform the House that I have selected the amendment in the name of the Leader of the Mr. Osborne: What my right hon. and learned Friend Opposition. Standing Order No. 33 provides that, on is completely against is having to rely on the Liberal the last day of the debate on the motion for an address Democrats—and with an intervention like that, we can to Her Majesty, the House may also vote on a second see why. amendment, selected by the Speaker. I have selected the The Government have no answer to the central question amendment in the name of Mr. Nick Clegg for that of why Britain is still in recession when the rest of the purpose. The vote on that amendment will take place at world is recovering. If one pauses to think about that the end of the debate, after we have disposed of the question, one realises how the entire edifice of the amendment in the name of the Leader of the Opposition. Government’s argument over the past two years—the argument that Britain was better prepared; the argument 12.40 pm that the great helmsman, the Prime Minister, would Mr. George Osborne (Tatton) (Con): I beg to move steer us through the storm; the argument advanced by an amendment, at the end of the Question to add: the Prime Minister that, thanks to his policies, Britain “but humbly regret that the Gracious Speech fails to provide a would, in his words, be “leading the world” out of credible plan to tackle the fiscal deficit and national debt, contains recession—has come crashing to the ground when we no measures to help families and businesses in the recession, fails face the simple fact that Britain has not led the world to provide real measures to begin to tackle rising entrenched out of recession, but the rest of the world has left poverty, fails to lay out plans to reform the public services and Britain behind in recession. That is what has happened. improve outcomes in the NHS, and fails to include proposals to Confronted with this truth and unable to provide a combat Britain’s falling economic competitiveness; condemn the convincing answer to how the Government got it so absence of any measures to bring down youth unemployment and wrong, one would have thought that they would use this the number of people out of work and any measures to provide help for savers and pensioners; regret the absence of measures to Queen’s Speech as a moment to pause and rethink. address the failed tripartite system of regulating the financial system; and further regret the absence of a plan for sustained Mr. Chris Mullin (Sunderland, South) (Lab): I may economic growth.” be able to assist with the hon. Gentleman’s inquiries. I Today we discuss the economy and two Treasury Bills had lunch the other day with someone who works for a soon to come before the House, and we also bring the very big bank in the City, as one does, and he told me week-long debate on this empty Queen’s Speech to a that he thought the official figures were wrong and that close. Apparently, we have something to look forward we were already out of recession. That was his opinion, to at the end because my right hon. and learned Friend which he said was also the opinion of his bank. Last the Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke) has just informed night—[Interruption.] me that it has been 20 years since he last wound up a debate on a three-line Whip in the House of Commons. Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Michael Lord): Order. I In a few hours’ time, we will get to hear that. think that the hon. Member has made his point. We have this debate, of course, the day after the Office for National Statistics confirmed through its Mr. Osborne: I look forward to reading the diary revisions that the British economy continued to contract entry about that one. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman in the third quarter of this year. While we all hope, was served a lot of very good wine at the lunch. indeed expect, some kind of recovery by the end of the My point is that a lot of hope was placed in the fact year, Britain is still officially in recession a full 20 months that when the Office for National Statistics came to after it entered it. That makes it the longest recession revise its figures for the third quarter, they would show since the second world war and, of course, the deepest that the economy was, in fact, expanding rather than recession as well. contracting. Well, we have had the first revision, which The economy has contracted by far more than the is often the most significant one, and the figures show 3.5 per cent. that the Chancellor forecast in his Budget that the economy is still contracting. We all wish that this spring. That poses a question that should hang over that were not the case, but those are the official figures, our debate today and every contribution to it: why is no doubt endorsed by the Government and the Treasury, 705 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 706

[Mr. George Osborne] time that we had strong national leadership. Instead, we have a Queen’s Speech that even the Government’s own and that is the reality with which we have to deal. The supporters say has everything to do with the narrow fact is that Britain is still in recession when almost every interests of a beleaguered Prime Minister and nothing other country in the world, including the United States, to do with the national interest. has now come out of recession. This is what a member of the Cabinet could not resist One would have thought that the Government would boasting to The Times newspaper two days before the use the last opportunity in this tired Parliament to Queen’s Speech was even delivered. It will be, he said, address the fundamental problems that hold back a the sustainable and strong recovery: the lack of credit and the lack of confidence in the British economy—the lack “most political in 12 years”. of credit to finance the recovery, the lack of confidence Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would like to use the protection that the country can deal with its debts and go for of parliamentary privilege to name the Cabinet Minister growth. But no, the Government have not addressed I believe responsible for saying that. I have done my those fundamental problems and instead they chose to research, cross-checked with past records, and I believe use this Queen’s Speech to try to establish their famous those remarks were made by the Secretary of State for political dividing lines. Children, Schools and Families. It is exactly the pattern Many Back Benchers have taken part in these six of behaviour that we have come to get used to from days of parliamentary debate on the Queen’s Speech, him. In June, for example, he told everyone he was but as it happens, the most accurate analysis of what going to have the Chancellor’s job in a couple of days’ this Queen’s Speech was really about was provided by time, while earlier this month he briefed on how he was the very first Labour Back Bencher to be called by the winning his spending battle with the Treasury. Chair to speak in the main debate. The right hon. Member for Norwich, South (Mr. Clarke) said this, just I wonder whether the Chancellor—I do not expect minutes after the Prime Minister had sat down last him to say anything—has noticed the similarity between week: the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families “Instead of legislating in a way that sets out a constructive and one of those James Bond villains, who sits in his ambition for the future, I fear this Queen’s Speech shows that we secret lair, stroking the cat, cooking up his dastardly are dominated by the political fear of our opponents. That is not plans for world domination, and then, just before he the right way for Labour to win” —[Official Report, 18 November puts them into effect, he is unable to resist the temptation 2009; Vol. 501, c. 37.] to show off and tell everyone about those plans. We in 2010. There we have it: no constructive ambition for know what happens next in the films: Bond escapes, the the future and not the best way to govern the country. plans collapse, and our villain departs in an escape pod That is not a Conservative MP speaking, but a former and abandons the imploding mother ship. We fully member of the Labour Cabinet. Some Labour Members expect to see the Secretary of State for Children, Schools will, of course, dismiss their former Home Secretary as and Families attempt the political equivalent in the next one of the most usual of the usual suspects, always few months. It is precisely because Cabinet members plotting to unseat the leader of the Labour party—and have told us that this Queen’s Speech is so cynical, so always, to our great relief, failing in those plots. transparently an attempt to draw artificial dividing The truth is, however, that the right hon. Member for lines, and so little motivated by what would serve the Norwich, South is not the only one who thinks that the national interest, that we must approach each measure Queen’s Speech was little more than a cynical exercise in with considerable suspicion about its motives. political calculation. My attention has been drawn to The Treasury has put two Bills before us: the Financial the blog of the hon. Member for Hyndburn (Mr. Pope). Services Bill and the fiscal responsibility Bill. Do either It goes under the inspired title of “The Audacity of of those Bills even begin to rise to the economic challenge Pope”— inspired because it presumably attracts millions that we face? Will they provide the credit and confidence of unwitting visitors who thought they were hitting on that is so badly lacking? Will they tackle the deficit and something a bit more presidential. If we look at this go for growth? No, they will not. As we will debate the Labour Member’s blog, we discover that “Pope” has the Second Reading of the Financial Services Bill on Monday, audacity to say this about the Government’s programme I will not dwell on it today, except to comment on the that we are being asked to vote on tonight. He says: Walker review published this morning. Everyone wants “The Queen’s Speech… will be designed to put the Tories on the boards of banks to do their job better and to the spot apparently. We are told that there will be clear dividing understand more fully the risks that they are running. lines between us and the Tories… The people I represent don’t want this kind of yah-boo politics, they want to know what we are We do not want a repeat of what happened at the Royal going to do for them. The purpose of the Queen’s Speech is to... Bank of Scotland, where an all-powerful chief executive outline a vision of what the Government can do for our country; went unchallenged by his own board, by Government its purpose is not to score points off the other parties.” regulators, and by a Government who instead chose to The hon. Gentleman then says: knight him for services to banking. “Am I alone in thinking that this strategy is, well, not brilliantly I spoke to David Walker this week, and we support thought out?” his plans to shake up the bank boards and improve their I can reassure him that no, he is not, as this has been the risk controls. We also support his proposals to make most transparently cynical, empty and political legislative those banks disclose the number of their employees programme put before this Parliament in living memory. who are on high salaries. What happened to all the talk Our country is in recession as the rest of the world from the Government that they would disclose people’s recovers; the great social problems of our age go names as well? Lord Myners said just two months ago unanswered; our political system has lost all trust. It is that the pay and the identity of the highest-paid bankers 707 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 708 would be disclosed by the Government. However, when humour. We must at least give the Chancellor credit for asked about that on the radio this morning, David keeping a straight face when he tells us that a Government Walker said that who have tripled the national debt and run up the “the idea being canvassed by Lord Myners…is not supported by largest budget deficit the country has ever known will a shred of evidence of the kind that I am interested in.” be introducing a fiscal responsibility Bill. I have looked That is not what one would call a ringing endorsement around the world for precedents for such a Bill, and I of the Chancellor’s City Minister from the Chancellor’s have asked for research to be done. I can tell the House City adviser. Perhaps Lord Myners will be the next today that I have found one precedent. The paragon of GOAT to slip the tether. When it comes to the Government financial rectitude and transparency that introduced a and the banks, surely the public are entitled to ask why fiscal responsibility Bill is Nigeria. the Government talk tough and make promises, but What Britain needs is an entirely new fiscal regime, then fail to deliver. As we wait to see bonus payments with an independent office for Budget responsibility, so over the coming months, we will remember the Prime that the figures are not fiddled and Ministers are held to Minister’s promise that the era of the big bonus is over. independent account for the promises they make. That We will look in detail at the Financial Services Bill is what the Conservative party will introduce in government. next week, but we know that it will do nothing fundamental Instead, what Britain gets today is a Bill that has invited to alter the tripartite system of regulation that failed mockery and ridicule before it has even been debated; a Britain so spectacularly. Why? The simple and political Bill that proclaims to the country that the Government reason is that the Prime Minister is the sole architect of will halve the soaring budget deficit, but does not say the structure and does not want to admit that he got it how; a new law that achieves a constitutional first of wrong. We also know that the Financial Services Bill imposing no legal sanction on the person who is likely will do nothing to address the real financial scandal in to break it. No other Chancellor in the long history of our country today—that tens of thousands of businesses the office has felt the need to pass a law in order to are still facing a credit crunch. convince people that he has the political will to implement This Queen’s Speech has been littered with contributions his own Budget. from Members on both sides of the House who have As one commentator observed this week, there are firms in their constituency facing bankruptcy because only two conclusions. Either the Chancellor has lost they cannot get reasonable access to credit, on reasonable confidence in himself to stick to his resolution, and is, terms. The Bank of England’s figures show lending to so to speak, asking the police to help him, or he fears business continues to contract, and the chambers of that everyone else has lost confidence in his ability to commerce say credit conditions are getting worse. keep his word, but hopes that they might believe in the A year ago, the Chancellor talked at length in the statute book if not in him. Neither is much of a Queen’s Speech debate about all the Government recommendation for the Chancellor of the day. programmes that would help. Let us look at what has happened to them 12 months later. What happened to Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): Was there the capital for enterprise fund? It has helped seven not one important point behind this idiotic Bill? The businesses. The Chancellor told us that the trade Labour Government are now saying that they need credit insurance scheme would provide £5 billion of to either cut spending or increase taxes to the tune of credit insurance; instead, it has provided £18 million of £100 billion. Does my hon. Friend think that Government credit insurance. What about the guarantee for asset-backed Back Benchers have realised what that means? securities, which, we were told, would tackle the heart of the credit crunch? Not a single guarantee has been provided by that scheme. Mr. Osborne: My right hon. Friend makes a very If we want answers to the central question of why good point. I do not think that Government Members Britain remains in recession while the rest of the world have begun to wake up to the mess of the public recovers, we can start by looking at the dismal failure of finances or what will be required. Let me be a little this Government to deliver on their promises to get generous: I think the Chancellor is beginning to realise, credit flowing in our economy. because, every day, Bank of England and Treasury officials are telling him the real situation. However, he Peter Luff (Mid-Worcestershire) (Con): My hon. Friend has a big problem: he has not convinced in any way his has been uncharacteristically generous to the Government. next-door neighbour, the Prime Minister, who is still Will he also remind the House that the automotive intent, as his conference speech revealed, on coming up assistance programme, which was promised as a £2.3 billion with new, uncosted spending pledges, instead of dealing scheme in January, turned out to be a £400 million with the very serious problem that this country faces, guarantee, and so far just one loan of £10 million has and recognising that public spending must be cut. been made, to Tata? Mr. Andrew Pelling (Croydon, Central) (Ind): It is Mr. Osborne: My hon. Friend speaks not only with probably more important to be concerned about Opposition his experience as Chairman of the Select Committee on Back Benchers rather than Government Back Benchers, Business, Innovation and Skills, but as a west midlands bearing in mind that the hon. Gentleman will likely Member, and he is absolutely right that the promise have the Chancellor’s responsibility in a few months’ of credit assistance to the car industry has not been time. But is it not also important to be cautious about delivered on. the timing of public expenditure cuts, given the fragile Let us turn to the other big Treasury Bill: the fiscal economy that he has described? Is one way out to go for responsibility Bill. I congratulate the parliamentary growth, by pursuing a Reaganomics-type approach of draftsmen who gave the Bill its title on their sense of having lower taxes, rather than higher ones? 709 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 710

Mr. Osborne: I am not a believer in Reaganomics. I That, he said, would have to take place “over the am a fiscal conservative, as is the leader of my party. lifetime” of the next Parliament, The best comment on the matter that I have read “which is the period for which a government is elected. Beyond recently came from Richard Lambert, the CBI director that is a statement of intent and hope rather than a plan for which general: someone can be held accountable.” “History tells us that these are really difficult nettles to grasp My views on the issue are the same as those of the but if you grasp them in a clear and bold way, then the pain lasts Governor of the Bank of England. I have no idea for a shorter period than if you just limply grab hold of them…Our whether they are the same as the Chancellor’s views. strong instincts are that the risks of going too soon are less than Perhaps he will intervene on me again. I should like to the risks of waiting too long…Two full parliaments of chancellors know, just as a matter of interest, whether the Chancellor being responsible just seems too much to expect.” of the Exchequer of this country agrees with the Governor I agree with what he says. of the Bank of England. To return to the fiscal responsibility Bill, who on earth does the Chancellor think that he will convince Mr. Darling: The hon. Gentleman quoted Richard with that piece of legislative fiction? Are economists Lambert, who, he said, had expressed the view that the convinced? No, as one former Monetary Policy Committee deficit should be eliminated in the space of one Parliament. member has said: I asked him whether or not he agreed with that. My “Fiscal responsibility acts are instruments of the fiscally position is quite clear. I think that the amount of irresponsible to con the public.” borrowing must be reduced by half, but what concerns What about the markets? The verdict of one leading me is that we do not get ourselves into a position in City analyst is that which we seriously damage the economy by removing support in a way that would harm businesses and “the government’s plans for legislation to cut the deficit are not enterprise. The hon. Gentleman seems to be saying that convincing and are probably just camouflage—a sort of ‘fiscal figleaf’—for the lack of genuine action in the upcoming PBR.” he would go further than what I am proposing. I simply ask him to clarify that. What about the public? Surely they will want to know what happens to the Chancellor who breaks his own Mr. Osborne: If the Chancellor’s concern is about law. Will he be fined? Will he be imprisoned? No, he will seriously damaging the British economy, I wish he had not. The Prime Minister only wants to kick the Chancellor had that concern a couple of years ago. out; he does not want to lock him up. I agree with the Governor of the Bank of England. This fiscal responsibility Bill will have exactly the That is who I agree with. The Chancellor, very strikingly, same effect as the amazingly similarly named code for has not said publicly that he agrees with the Governor fiscal responsibility which his predecessor, the Prime of the Bank of England. So we have someone in charge Minister, introduced when he was Chancellor. That was of monetary policy and someone in charge of fiscal the code that gave us all that nonsense about golden policy, but we have no idea whether those two people rules, prudence with a purpose, and 40 per cent. debt-to- agree with each other. GDP ratios, and all the while the national debt has been allowed to triple. No one was there fixing the roof when I suspect that this fiscal responsibility Bill was not the the sun was shining. idea of the Chancellor of the Exchequer at all. I suspect that the Chancellor would happily be rid of the ridicule that he will invite when he takes the Bill through Parliament, The Minister for Further Education, Skills, Apprenticeships but the Prime Minister will not let him, because, as we and Consumer Affairs (Kevin Brennan): We are all in this all know, it was the Prime Minister’s idea, cooked up in together. the bunker in No. 10. It bears all his hallmarks: form over substance, spin over reality, passing a fake law Mr. Osborne: We are all in this together, as it happens, instead of having the courage to deliver what you and the sooner the Government understand that in the promised. last few months they have left in office, the sooner they The fiscal responsibility Bill is like so much of the can start to salvage some of their reputation. A big rest of this Queen’s Speech. The Government are trying choice faces the Chancellor of the Exchequer: is he to make illegal what they have so far failed to promise going to stand up to the Prime Minister of the day? Is and deliver. The Bill is there to create a feeble dividing he going to be like Roy Jenkins and do the right thing line. The issue with which we must deal is the budget even if it is politically inconvenient? Is he going to be deficit, which is larger as a proportion of our economy Roy Jenkins or not? than the deficits in the United States, France and Germany—even larger, now, than those in Ireland, Iceland The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Alistair Darling): and Hungary, the three countries that have been most I wonder whether I can ask the shadow Chancellor a exposed to the credit crunch. question in the light of what he said about Richard How much longer can the Government ignore the Lambert’s remarks, which he quoted with approval. Do growing clamour of concern from the international I take it that it is his policy to eliminate the deficit in one markets and, indeed, domestic businesses which believe Parliament? that we are risking Britain’s international credit rating? How great does the spectre of higher taxes, higher Mr. Osborne: My view is shared exactly by Mervyn long-term interest rates and higher unemployment have King, who told the Select Committee that there would to be before the Government change course? have to be, in the next Parliament, We know that there is a fierce battle afoot between “a really significant reduction in the deficit, the elimination of a the Chancellor and the Prime Minister. The Prime large part of the structural deficit”. Minister appears to be pursuing a policy of scorched 711 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 712 earth and poison pills. The Chancellor may live in a to that definition, the “bills of social failure” are far terraced house next to the Prime Minister, but he has higher now, under this Labour Government, although become the semi-detached member of the Government. there are low interest rates at present because of the We look to him to protect the nation’s interests against monetary policy action taken by central banks. When this Prime Minister, who is clinging to survival. and if the rates start to climb—and some of the long-term rates have already begun to do so—those bills will Rob Marris (Wolverhampton, South-West) (Lab): The become even larger. That is why dealing with the deficit hon. Gentleman has courageously said that he agrees is a prerequisite for the building of a strong and lasting with a policy of eliminating the Government deficit recovery, and providing a platform of stability for other within one parliamentary term. The leader of his party policies for growth. has said that he is against big government. Will the hon. Yes, we need lower and simpler business taxes instead Gentleman give us an idea of what size he thinks of the Government’s corporate tax regime, which is government should be—that is, what Government spending driving companies abroad. Yes, we need to get Britain as a proportion of GDP should be—in, say, five years’ working, and we have the reforms to do it—devised by time? the person who used to advise the Prime Minister. The Government’s policies have left one in five young people Mr. Osborne: I am not going to set some artificial without work. And yes, we need to sweep away the red target for the size of government as a proportion of tape that strangles our small businesses. GDP, not least because it will depend on the size of the What happened, in the Queen’s Speech, to the radical GDP, which may alter every year. It may shrink, which regulatory budgets that the Prime Minister told us is what as we have seen it do in the last two years. I am would pretty clear about the fact that the current level of over 50 per cent. is unsustainable, and I would imagine that “transform the culture of Whitehall”? most Labour Members agree with that. They have been completely abandoned. What happened Let me correct the hon. Gentleman. What I said was to the Regulatory Policy Committee that Lord Mandelson that I agreed with the Governor of the Bank of England, set up with such a great fanfare? It has not met for seven who has said that there needs to be months. The Business Secretary has not found any space for it in his diary between the shooting weekends. “an elimination of a large part of the structural deficit” [Interruption.] I know all about Peter Mandelson. that We should be sending a message loud and clear: “takes place over the lifetime of a parliament”. “Britain is open for business. If you invest here, create Let us look at what the international community is jobs here or set up businesses here, we are on your side.” now saying about the Government’s plans. According We need another enterprise revolution, yet there is to the verdict delivered by the Organisation for Economic nothing in the Queen’s Speech to bring it about. “An Co-operation and Development this week, end to boom and bust”, the Government promised, and “an announcement of concrete and comprehensive plans upfront we have had the greatest boom and the deepest bust. would enhance macroeconomic stability” “Leading the world out of recession”, they promised, in the United Kingdom, and would strengthen the and now a recovering world leaves Britain behind. recovery. The director general of the CBI has said: “Better prepared”, they have claimed for the last year, “The UK’s rating must be put beyond doubt”. and now we face the largest deficit crisis in the developed world. I should like to hear from the Chancellor, when he stands up to speak, whether he thinks that it is a matter All Labour Governments leave office with unemployment of Government policy to try to protect that credit higher than when they entered office, and leave the rating. I should like to know whether he thinks that it is economy in a greater mess. This Labour Government a top priority for the Treasury. That is the issue that is have done it in horrific style. The sooner we get rid of being discussed out there in the international market, them the better; the sooner we can change our Government, and by domestic businesses deciding whether to invest the sooner we can have a lasting recovery. in this country.

Mr. Henry Bellingham (North-West Norfolk) (Con): 1.10 pm Does my hon. Friend agree that the key point in relation The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Alistair Darling): to public confidence is the interest that the country will We have just listened to 30 minutes of the shadow be paying on its national debt? The rate was 5 per cent. Chancellor’s customary political knockabout, but we last year, and it may rise to 9 or 10 per cent. We are have not heard very much in the way of any specific talking about over £65 billion, and that is surely something alternative proposals he might have, which is a pity that the Government must address. because this occasion is an opportunity for us to discuss the future of our country. This debate is taking place at Mr. Osborne: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. A a critical time, because the decisions we take now and growing issue in British politics will be the amount of over the next few weeks and months, particularly on the Government money that is being used just to pay the economy, will determine our future for the next five, interest on this debt. That amount is larger than the 10 and 20 years. It is therefore very important that the schools budget. Labour Members may remember that debate is about how we can ensure that this country can when they stood for election to Parliament in 1997, the prosper in a globalised economy, and how we can secure phrase “the bills of social failure” was used to refer to sustainable growth over the long term, because that is the amount of money that the Tories were spending on one of the best ways of restoring health to our public unemployment benefit, debt interest and the like. According finances and creating jobs in the future. 713 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 714

[Mr. Alistair Darling] “Lord Mandelson has raised the prospect of an age of austerity…in Britain under Labour…In the gloomiest assessment to date…the Our approach has three strands. The first of them has Business Secretary said there would be ‘constraints for the next been to take action to help people and businesses in decade’”. order to ensure that the recession would be less painful If we are to discuss these matters seriously, we must and less deep than it otherwise would have been. The stop attributing the Labour Government policy of austerity Conservatives have always made it clear that they have and cuts to everybody else. Instead, come clean and let been against each and every such step and proposal. us get on with it. Secondly, as I made clear in the pre-Budget report 12 months ago, in my view it was essential that as Mr. Darling: My noble Friend Lord Mandelson talks recovery was established we reduced the deficit. I set out about growth in speeches about three or four times a a plan then, which was confirmed in this year’s Budget, week. Like the rest of us, he has been making the case to halve the deficit over four years, because I believe for the need for the Government to take action to get that is a reasonable thing to do, but we must do it in a growth, for example by ensuring we get more broadband way that protects front-line services and does not damage and we have the right infrastructure in this country. He the economy.Crucially, the third strand of our approach—I has been making the case. thought we might have heard more about this from the Opposition today—is to ensure growth, because that is Mr. Jeremy Browne: The record of economic growth very important for shaping our future. during the current Chancellor’s tenure in office is far At every stage, the Conservative party has made the from impressive. However, the leader of the Conservative wrong call. Too often, it has played politics rather than party has been explicit on this point: during his time as dealt with the real issues we faced. It was calling for leader of the Conservative party—not when he was a austerity, rather than having the ambition to go for student politician—he said GDP was no longer the sustainable growth. Interestingly, although the hon. party’s priority and that what mattered now was GWB, Member for Tatton (Mr. Osborne) managed to utter the or general well-being. We know the position of the word “growth” three or four times today, in his keynote Conservative party, therefore: the Chancellor is potentially conference speech just a few weeks ago he did not utter inadvertently misleading us, because we know it is not a the word once. That is odd given that we read in the party that has growth as its main economic priority. newspapers at the beginning of this week that growth is the new Conservative party mantra. Warm words will Mr. Darling: I have said that I am not convinced by never achieve growth. What is needed to ensure we the Conservative party’s proposals. Its policy changes achieve it are specific proposals. very often—two focus groups and it changes. It is going for growth now because it discovered its message on Mr. Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): austerity was not going down too well with the public. I am sure the Chancellor is serious in trying to deal with All the parties will be judged on what policies we have the critical state the country is in, but is he not disappointed to help people now, to ensure we get our borrowing that fellow members of his Cabinet see this Queen’s down and to secure growth in the future. What people Speech as an opportunity not to tackle the serious want to know is how the Government can intervene to issues he raises, but to create dividing lines—to introduce make a difference so we get long-term sustainable growth, legislation designed not to improve the state of the because that is what our ability to protect jobs and country, but purely to try to recover the Labour party’s secure new jobs for the future will depend upon. position? Mr. Darling: The measures outlined in the Queen’s Mr. Bellingham: Will the Chancellor give way? Speech will not only improve our quality of life, but will help us make some of the long-term decisions that are Mr. Darling: No, I will make a little progress, but then needed, such as in relation to energy, and also in relation I will come back— to the Bill that I shall discuss shortly, and which we will debate next week, to strengthen the responsibilities of Mr. Bellingham rose— the Financial Services Authority. These are important policy areas, but we do not have to create dividing lines, Mr. Darling: If the hon. Gentleman sits down nicely, because they already clearly exist. I have just made the I will let him back in later. I am mindful of what his point that there is a big difference between the Labour ancestor did to a former Prime Minister when he fell and Conservative parties. We believe that the Government out with him, so I will be very careful and make sure have a responsibility to help people and businesses as that I come back to him. we go through one of the deepest ever recessions, but We need to be reminded of the recent action we have the Conservative party does not; it would have done taken. That has made a difference, and people will look nothing at all in response to recent events. I believe the at how we reacted to what has turned out to be one of Government can make a positive difference to the rate the deepest recessions ever and make a judgment on of growth that we achieve in the future, but the Conservative that. Let us compare what happened in the last big party does not agree. There are clear differences, therefore; recession of the 1990s with current events. The extent to the differences of opinion are blindingly obvious, and it which Government intervention has made a difference is the people who must make a choice. is remarkable. It has made the downturn less painful Stewart Hosie (Dundee, East) (SNP): I am bemused than it otherwise would have been. In the 1990s, relative by those comments. Let me read out some quotations to GDP figures, twice as many households were repossessed, from The Herald. They appeared under the headline, and about two and half times more businesses became “Mandelson warns of austerity ‘for next decade’”, and insolvent. Crucially, relative to the fall in GDP, almost are dated 15 July: four times as many people would no longer be employed 715 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 716 if we had followed now the policies that were adopted the level of repossessions that was expected. The “time then. It should also be remembered that in the 1990s to pay” scheme has helped more than 150,000 businesses and 1980s interest rates were not 0.5 per cent., as they spread their payments of £4 billion-worth of tax, and at are today. In the 1990s they were 15 per cent., and they the end of the day, 95 per cent. of that is still repaid to were higher still in the 1980s. As a result of that difference the Revenue. The numbers involved in the scrappage between then and now, at present someone paying a scheme might be small, but it has had a tremendous mortgage of about £100,000 is saving over £200 a effect in boosting confidence. For example, Honda has month, whereas in the 1990s they would have been announced that production of one of its models will be paying over £900 more a month. That demonstrates the moved to Swindon from Japan, and Nissan has been difference that is made when a Government are prepared able to take on more people. The outlook at the beginning to take action to help people and businesses. of this year for the automotive industry was pretty grim, but the measures that we have taken have made a Mr. Redwood: Is the Chancellor aware that most difference in improving and lifting the level of confidence. private businesses either cannot get any credit at all or None of that would have happened had the Conservative are paying 10 to 20 per cent. in order to secure less party been in power. credit than they actually need? He should be in the real world. It is only the public sector that borrows at Mr. Osborne: Would the Chancellor please give me somewhere near 0.5 per cent., because they are printing his answer to the simple question that I pose: why is the money for themselves. The private sector is still in a Britain still in recession when almost every other country credit crunch. in the world has come out of recession? The Prime Minister said that he would lead the world out of Mr. Darling: I will talk about bank lending in a recession, so why has Britain lagged behind the world in moment, but let me point out something that the right coming out of recession? hon. Gentleman will remember, because he was a Minister in the 1990s and also, I think, in the 1980s—in both Mr. Darling: First—I shall come directly to the those recessions. There is no doubt that one of the question—I should say that I have always been of economic problems we faced at that time was very high the view that we would not see positive growth until the interest rates that held back our economy. That was turn of the year; I have said that on many occasions in undoubtedly painful and it had to be dealt with. this Chamber and elsewhere. I have always been clear that I was not expecting, even in the revision we saw Several hon. Members rose— yesterday—it is good that the revision is in the right direction and that the rate of contraction was less than Mr. Darling: I shall now give way to the hon. Member the Office for National Statistics had thought—to see for North-West Norfolk (Mr. Bellingham), before he us return to growth until the turn of the year. It was turns on me. inevitable that countries would come out of recession at different rates. This country has a very large financial Mr. Bellingham: The Chancellor was speaking about services sector, which in the long run will be of benefit enterprise and wealth creation a moment ago. Can he to us, provided that sector is properly supervised and tell the House what good the agency workers directive regulated. That sector has patently had to go through will do for small businesses, job creation and enterprise? some very difficult conditions, and that is bound to affect the rate at which we enter recovery. I do not think Mr. Darling: At every stage in relation to the directives there is any great mystery about that; I would have that have come from the European Union, we have tried thought that that was rather an obvious point. to do everything we can to ensure that we protect The hon. Gentleman made great play of the fact that British jobs and have a vibrant labour market. Although we have still to come out of recession. I think it is a unemployment in this country is too high and, good thing that other countries are coming out of unfortunately, will continue to rise for a while, one of recession, and I should say to him that every country the successes over the past few years is that because our that has done that has one thing in common: they all labour market is more flexible than it used to be, put in place a stimulus to their economy. That is something unemployment here is lower than in America, France that he opposed, and when America came out of recession and many other countries. That is a very important he tried somehow to pretend that nothing had been factor. done—even the Republican Administration took a different view, let alone President Obama and his subsequent Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con) rose— work. The stimulus is one of the reasons why America has come out of recession, and that is a very good thing, Mr. Darling: I shall make further progress, and give which I support. way later. Our support for individuals, whether we are talking Mr. Osborne: The Chancellor says that it was always about the cut in VAT, which the Institute for Fiscal obvious to him that because Britain had such a large Studies estimates has had the same effect as a 1 per cent. financial sector we would be among the worst affected interest rate cut, the 22 million basic rate taxpayers who and our recovery would be delayed. Why then did the are paying less tax, the pensioners who have seen the Prime Minister say that Britain would be leading the benefit of our increasing the amount of capital that world out of recession? What did he mean by that? they can hold before they lose eligibility for pension credit, or the increase in pensions, shows that we have Mr. Darling: The Prime Minister has given an done everything we can to help people through this extraordinary lead in getting international co-operation, downturn. For home owners, we have managed to reduce which has helped a great deal. I would like to think that 717 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 718

[Mr. Darling] countries mentioned by the shadow Chancellor as starting to come out of recession have considerably higher I have been fairly consistent on this. When the hon. unemployment than the United Kingdom. Gentleman and I were on our respective boating trips two years ago—my boat is somewhat smaller than the Mr. Darling: That is the case: unfortunately, one on which he was spending his time, and it does not unemployment is 10 per cent. in America, 10 per cent. seem to have quite the same facilities—I said, when I in France, 8.6 per cent. in Canada, 7.6 per cent. in came ashore briefly, that I thought this downturn was Germany and 7.4 per cent. in Italy. Unemployment is going to be quite long lasting and more profound than higher in many other countries. This is about not just many people thought. And that is how it has turned the economic responsibility of a Government, but their out. social responsibility to do everything possible to get However, I also say—I stand by this—that I am people, particularly young people, back into work. confident that we are coming out of this, and I believe that we will see growth around the turn of the year. I Mr. Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): have been absolutely confident about that. One of the My right hon. Friend mentioned that the shadow reasons for that confidence is that we have taken the Chancellor talked about the level of unemployment action necessary to stop the pain being greater, as it among young people, stating that one in five were would otherwise have been. Furthermore, we are prepared unemployed. Does my right hon. Friend have the figures to take the action to ensure that as recovery is established to hand on youth unemployment under the Conservative we not only strengthen our fiscal position, but get Government? growth for the future. We need to remember what happened in the 1980s, when we came out of recovery only to go back into recession again. It is important to Mr. Darling: My hon. Friend is right to say that try to avoid that problem. youth unemployment in the 1980s and 1990s was one of the reasons why not only were we held back economically, Several hon. Members rose— but whole communities were scarred. That was especially so because a lot of the people who had lost their jobs were from particular communities that had very high Mr. Darling: I will give way to the Liberal Democrat unemployment. It is really important that we spend this spokesman and then I will press on. money. The Conservative party’s stance right from the start has been to oppose the action that we have taken Mr. Browne: The Chancellor said that he had always and oppose the money that we put into the economy, predicted that the British economy would return to including the £5 billion to help people get back into growth at the turn of this year—presumably he was work. talking about the first quarter of 2010. However, my recollection is that the initial prediction under his Chancellorship was that the economy would return to Mr. Bone: Will the Chancellor give way? growth in the third quarter of 2009—in July 2009—so that was not always the forecast. The forecast was Mr. Darling: Not just now. The shadow Chancellor revised backwards six months in the light of events. Is was keen to quote people, but as we move towards a that not his recollection too? situation in which recovery is established he and his party are calling not only for opposition to the proposals Mr. Darling: If the hon. Gentleman looks at the that we put in last year, but for a start in cutting public forecasts that I made at the time of the Budget, he will expenditure now. I remind him that Dominique Strauss- see exactly what I said. Kahn of the International Monetary Fund said at the CBI earlier this week that it was I was making the point that there is no doubt that this downturn has been substantial, but I believe that “too early for a general exit…We recommend erring on the side of the measures we are adopting are helping. One of the caution, as exiting too early is costlier than exiting too late.” big things making a difference is that we have been able We should remember those words. If we get this wrong, to get people who have lost their jobs back into work far if we follow the advice of the Conservative party, more quickly than in the past. More than half the there is every chance that we will seriously damage the people who lose their jobs are back in work within three economy. months, and almost three quarters are back in work I am sure that the shadow Chancellor will have after six months. Let us compare that with what happened looked at yesterday’s debate on the economy in the in the past, when a whole generation went on the dole other place. I noticed that Lord Skidelsky, the author of and stayed on it, many people finding that they were an acclaimed biography of Keynes, said always last into jobs and first out when there was ever any difficulty. We were never prepared to accept that as “the fall in the deficit will come about as a consequence of the recovery of the economy and will not be the cause of it. If you try an inevitable consequence of a downturn. to cut the deficit now in the mistaken idea that it will boost confidence, you will simply be adding to unemployment. Do Rob Marris: May I ask my right hon. Friend to stress Messrs Cameron and Osborne want to hand the Government the the issue of unemployment more? I believe that in his slogan, ‘If you want higher unemployment vote Conservative’? 30-minute speech the shadow Chancellor mentioned it That is what their pronouncements can fairly lead people to once, in the penultimate minute. That surely shows that expect.” the Conservative party still does not care about His point was that if we get ourselves into a situation unemployment, and still seems to think it is a price where we start cutting expenditure and damaging the worth paying. Secondly, I should say that almost all the economy now, before recovery is established, we will all 719 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 720 pay a heavy price. I wonder why Baroness Noakes, who the turn of this year. It is also interesting that whereas wound up for the Conservative party in the other place external forecasters at the time of the Budget said that last night, said: my forecasts for next year were optimistic, the same “There is no settled view on when and how fast to cut the external forecasters are now predicting more or less deficit.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 25 November 2009; what I predicted for next year. Things have changed Vol. 715, c.390, 459.] during the course of this year and, provided we make That is not the policy of the Conservative party—its the right calls, they will change for the better next year policy is to start cutting now. The Leader of the Opposition and the year after. has made that clear, not least this week. Clearly, the Conservative spokesman in the other place takes a Mr. Andrew Pelling (Croydon, Central) (Ind): These completely different view. are still very modest numbers in terms of economic growth, which shows the dangers of cutting public Mr. David Chaytor (Bury, North) (Lab): To return to spending now and snuffing out the economy. However, the question of the deficit and the CBI conference, is I am very concerned about the story on the front of not the strange paradox of the CBI’s position, quoted today’s Guardian about moving public sector jobs away by the shadow Chancellor earlier, the fact that it is from the south-east. Croydon has 29 per cent. of its simultaneously calling for deeper and quicker cuts to jobs in the public sector. Is it the Chancellor’s intention the deficit while being the most passionate advocate for to take those jobs away from Croydon to elsewhere in big expansion in infrastructure? When it comes to Heathrow, the country? Crossrail, high speed rail or the vast public subsidies that would go into nuclear power, the CBI wants more Mr. Darling: It is important that all parts of the spending. It wants more spending on skills training and country share in the benefits of public spending. I know investment. Is there not some contradiction? that Croydon is a big employer, particularly through the UK Border Agency. Obviously, when we consider how to disperse jobs to different parts of the country, we do Mr. Darling: I noted that point when I last met the not want to damage a local economy without ensuring director general of the CBI. As I understand it, it is the that we take compensatory steps. Decisions will have to policy of many of their members that we should maintain be taken from agency to agency and from group of public expenditure, not least in the areas in which they workers to group of workers, but I think that the idea of have an interest. It is certainly the CBI’s view that dispersing jobs is important. infrastructure spending is important. It is important, not just now but in the future. A number of hon. Members mentioned financial services reform. We will return to it next week, and like Mr. Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) the shadow Chancellor I think that we should debate (Con): Given that the United Kingdom is lagging behind the Financial Services Bill more extensively next week—I all other major industrial nations in coming out of this sense that that is the mood of the House. Giving statutory recession, does the Chancellor feel that he would have responsibility for financial stability is very important. liked to have put even more money into a fiscal stimulus? As I have said on countless occasions, I do not share the If so, why did he not do so? shadow Chancellor’s view that the FSA and the Bank of England should be merged. The fact of the merger would create a lot of uncertainty, especially at a time Mr. Darling: I announced the measures to support such as this when there is still a lot of work to be done. I the economy at the pre-Budget report 12 months ago believe that organisations have distinct responsibilities and in the Budget this year. I believed that it was and that the organisations can work together. Indeed, necessary for us to support the economy. Some measures the new council for financial stability will ensure that will cease at the end of this calendar year, such as the proceedings are rather more open and transparent in end to the reduction in VAT, and others, such as those the future, which is important. I have also made the governing the time to pay, which I mentioned earlier point that other countries have many more regulators and which has been hugely beneficial to business, will than we do. continue. The legislation will also provide for the implementation The hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster of the Walker report. Like the shadow Chancellor, I (Mr. Field) raises an important point that is worth welcome the conclusions of Sir David Walker. We will reflecting on. Just as I think that we were right to implement them in full and the legislation will allow us support the economy as we did, and as we are doing at to do that when we need a statutory change. There the moment, I believe that to withdraw the support now might be an argument for having more bands, or wider would be utter madness and completely damaging. bands, in relation to the disclosure of income. I am not Of course, if we consider what has happened, the in favour of disclosing the names of individuals, for downturn in our economy and in other economies at reasons that I think that most people would understand, the beginning of this year was far more severe than but it is in the public interest for people to know the most people expected. Data have shown that most range of payments that are made. Sir David Walker has economies, our own included, suffered a severe shock in done a very good job of work, not least because one the first quarter of this year. To account for that, the thing that clearly went wrong over the past two years majority of external forecasters are revising their predictions was that it is obvious that a number of non-executive for this year and next. That is not surprising. Today, the directors simply did not do their jobs. They were not average external forecast for 2009 is much lower than it asking the questions that they should have asked and was in April. Some, such as the OECD, are forecasting they were not holding the chief executives to account. growth of minus 4.7 per cent. However, I believe that That has to stop and David Walker’s measures will go notwithstanding that we expect to see growth around some way towards ensuring that. 721 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 722

[Mr. Darling] at the other end of the income scale. If we look at the 50p increase, it is patently obvious that people at the top I said that supporting the economy is important and end would benefit, as they would from the proposal to so, too, is ensuring that we strengthen our fiscal position reverse the pension tax relief. as the recovery is established. The pre-Budget report The Leader of the Opposition said that his party will take place in just under two weeks, and the House cared about poverty and inequality, but it is not surprising will understand why I do not propose to go into any of that he was cheered at the Tory party conference. People the detail that I will need to set out at that stage. I shall there obviously knew that he did not mean it and that return to the question of the fiscal responsibility legislation he would not let the richest down. The Conservative at that stage, too. proposals would benefit people at the top end of the The House should be in no doubt that it is important income scale. Nothing has changed with the Conservative that we should ensure that, as recovery is established, party. we halve the deficit over that four-year period. I set out that proposal last year and repeated it at the Budget. Mr. George Osborne: For the sake of the record, will That remains the Government’s policy and it is something the Chancellor confirm that the Government are proceeding that we will do. It is very important, not just because with their cuts in inheritance tax for the next financial borrowing needs to come down—it has inevitably risen year? because of the downturn—but because it is part of the conditions that we need to ensure growth in the future. Mr. Darling: The hon. Gentleman will have to wait It has to be done in a way that does not damage until the pre-Budget report for details on all tax matters. individuals and businesses at the same time. What I am not proposing to do is to make changes to inheritance tax whose only beneficiaries would be a Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) handful of people. As the hon. Gentleman probably (LD): As the Chancellor says, the pre-Budget report is knows, they are the ones who stand to gain from his coming soon. It will be coming at a very difficult and proposals. Nor will I introduce a change to the married important time for the economy, and the House should couples allowance that would mean that the highest scrutinise it effectively. In business questions, the Leader earners would get 13 times as much as other people. At of the House said that she would not timetable debate a time like this, that seems to me to be grossly unfair for the pre-Budget report. Is that at the request of the and wrong. Chancellor? Does he not want to see his pre-Budget report fully debated, or is he willing to have it debated Mr. Osborne: I asked a very specific question. In the and is the Leader of the House not providing him with 2007 PBR—and people will remember that that was a the time for it? week after the Tory conference—the Chancellor announced a three-part cut to inheritance tax. The third part of Mr. Darling: I missed that exchange, exciting as it that cut is due to take place in April next year. I want to must have been. I am more than happy for the pre-Budget know whether the Government are still committed to report to be debated and I hope that the usual channels the plans set out in their previous Budgets. will make that possible, preferably before the House rises for the Christmas recess. There is certainly no Mr. Darling: As I said, the hon. Gentleman will have barrier on my part. to wait until the PBR for details on all matters of tax. The shadow Chancellor was telling us that he too He would expect that at this time, but I repeat that his believed that we had to be more responsible. However, policies are not just the wrong things to do for the he needs to have a good look, not only at his plans for economy. At a time like this, it cannot be right to go out reducing the deficit, but also at the plans announced by of his way to give the tax cuts that he is proposing to him and his colleagues for additional spending. It is people at the top end of the income scale. That seems remarkable that, at a time when they are telling us that absolute nonsense— we should not be spending so much, the Opposition have produced proposals on the married couples allowance Mr. Osborne: Will the Chancellor give way on that and inheritance tax, as well as on getting rid of the top point? rate of tax at 50p and changing pension tax relief— [Interruption.] Some Opposition Members ask when Mr. Darling: No,asIhavegivenwayonitalready. the shadow Chancellor said that, but he has done so at just about every opportunity. We see shadow spokesmen Mr. Osborne: Will the right hon. Gentleman give and spokeswomen jumping up and down promising to way? spend more here, there and everywhere. The Conservative party’s proposals on inheritance Mr. Darling: Once more, and that is the lot. tax remain its policy, but I have been looking at the impact and the total cost of all their proposals. What I Mr. Osborne: I want to press the Chancellor on this have mentioned so far amounts to only about £10 billion point. He is introducing a 50p tax rate next April. I of promises, but there are others as well. The more presume that that will go ahead and that we do not have interesting question is, who gains? We know that all the to wait until the PBR for confirmation. He has announced benefit from the inheritance tax proposals would go to pre-financed plans for a cut in inheritance tax next about 2 per cent. of the largest estates, and that 98 per April, and I want to know whether that cut will take cent. of the public would not benefit. place or not. Again, if we look at the Opposition’s married couples allowance proposal, we find that the highest earners Mr. Darling: I did not think that the hon. Gentleman would receive 13 times as much of the benefit as people would be adding anything new to the debate. 723 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 724

Rob Marris: His friends want to know. Dr. McCrea: I thank the Chancellor for giving way. He is talking about growth, which is very important, Mr. Darling: From a sedentary position, my hon. but does he accept that many small and medium-sized Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, South-West businesses are struggling? They need more consideration (Rob Marris) says that the shadow Chancellor’s friends so that they can get bank loans at a reasonable interest want to know. That is probably absolutely right. rate. What more can he do about that? I want to conclude by saying that the one matter about which I expected the shadow Chancellor to have Mr. Darling: I agree with the hon. Gentleman. The something to say was growth, yet he said absolutely figures show that the amount of commercial lending is nothing about it. We must make sure, for the sake of broadly the same now as it was just before we got into skills and employment, that we have the right infrastructure the banking problems in August 2007. Many businesses, in the future. That is essential, especially in the transport for understandable reasons, have repaid very substantial and energy sectors, where this country has been badly sums, but we still have to make sure that credit flows served over decades. We are beginning to make real into the economy—something that is particularly important changes, and to see real improvements. It is also essential as the economy begins to recover. That is why we are to support businesses, when it is right for the Government continuing to work closely with all the banks, and not to do so. If we do not, we simply will not see the growth just the ones that we own, to make sure that the credit is that we expect. available. It is also of critical importance that people are able to see how much that credit costs, not just in terms of interest rates but in terms of fees and everything else. Mr. Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) That is important in every part of the country, including (Lab) rose— in Northern Ireland. It is absolutely essential to have a policy on growth, Justine Greening (Putney) (Con) rose— and it is quite clear that the Opposition do not have one. Growth was barely mentioned in the shadow Chancellor’s Dr. William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP) rose— speech today, but the Government have taken action in relation to broadband provision, businesses, innovation Mr. Darling: I give way first to my right hon. Friend and planning to ensure that we do get growth in the the Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill future. (Mr. Clarke). People cannot say that they want to go for growth while in the same breath they commit to pull support Mr. Tom Clarke: I am very grateful to my right hon. from the economy. We have to make sure that we get the Friend. I believe that the Government behaved very economy into recovery. We need to get that recovery courageously when they repeated the commitment to established, and ensure that we reduce our borrowing devote 0.7 of gross national income to overseas aid by over a four-year period in a way that does not damage 2013. We have heard absolutely nothing from the official the economy. That is very important, but it is also Opposition on that. Does that omission concern him as important that we get growth for the long-term future. it does me? In today’s debate, we have had confirmation that the Opposition would not have done what was necessary Mr. Darling: That is another subject about which I 12 months ago. They have opposed every measure that have many Opposition Members talk, but my right hon. the Government have introduced. They had no answers Friend is absolutely right. Our commitment to development then, and it is clear that they have none now. is very important: it is part of our responsibility and it This Queen’s Speech sets out some important measures is in the interests of this country. that will make a difference to the economy. I commend I shall give way to both of the other hon. Members the Gracious Speech to the House. who rose, and then I shall stop.

Justine Greening: I am grateful to the Chancellor for 1.48 pm giving way, but an examination of spending habits Dr. Vincent Cable (Twickenham) (LD): My party’s suggests that people in the top 10 per cent. income approach to the Queen’s Speech is summarised in the bracket will gain nearly £800 a year from his VAT cut, amendment put forward by my party leader and my while those in the bottom 10 per cent. will gain only colleagues. Essentially, it is that the limited time that about £100. That VAT stimulus will be paid for through remains in this Parliament should be used for some a rise in national insurance payments that will tax jobs modest political reforms and that devoting it to the that otherwise would have gone to unemployed people. range of legislation proposed in the Queen’s Speech is Does he not agree that that is surely totally inequitable? not justified. However, two economic Bills—on fiscal policy and on banking—have been announced and it Mr. Darling: I do not agree. I know the view that the seems appropriate that we take the opportunity to hon. Lady takes on the VAT cut in general, but I think discuss them. that it has benefited the whole economy and the whole I shall start with the question raised by the Conservative population. It is nothing like as skewed as some of the spokesman concerning Britain’s place in the current proposals that she backs—such as those on inheritance economic crisis. It seems a good place to start: why is tax, for example. Britain in the worrying position of having suffered a I shall give way for the final time to the hon. Member recession that is deeper and longer than that faced by for South Antrim (Dr. McCrea). other developed countries? 725 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 726

[Dr. Vincent Cable] There is a particular difficulty with the position that the Conservative shadow Chancellor has taken. He Essentially, there are two reasons. One is that the assumes that the next Government, or this one, can consumer boom, which was based on inflated asset somehow create rapid economic growth. Going back to prices—particularly for housing—and consumer debt, the early days when the Prime Minister was in his was allowed to get out of control. There was a great ascendancy and the Secretary of State for Children, deal of complacency about that. Schools and Families was at his side, they claimed that The bigger reason, which the Chancellor has just they had in some way changed the fundamentals of given from the Dispatch Box, is that Britain is unusually British economic growth. The rather mundane truth is dependent on the banking sector. We had a major that the underlying rate of economic growth in Britain international banking crisis; British banks’ balance sheets has been pretty much unchanged since the Napoleonic account for roughly 4 to 5 per cent. of our gross wars. Different Governments claim that they have found domestic product—far in excess of the United States or a magic formula—Mrs. Thatcher did, as did the present most European countries. It was inevitable in those Prime Minister—but of course they do not fundamentally circumstances that a major banking crisis would inflict change anything. Underlying growth is likely to be quite great damage on the British economy. In that sense, the modest, in which case there will be a significant effect Chancellor was absolutely right in his analysis. It is on what it is possible to do in terms of fiscal policy. unfortunate that his predecessor, now the Prime Minister, If we enter a period of rapid growth, the Government’s went around claiming that we would get out of this aims will be too modest. There is a real danger that we recession much sooner than everyone else, because the shall get stuck in a slowly growing, recession-hit economy underlying structural problems were so obvious, and for a significant period, with high levels of unemployment. the Chancellor has correctly identified them. If that were the case, it would be disastrous to embark Let me proceed to two specific issues, one of which is on rapid deep cuts in public spending in the short run. the fiscal responsibility Bill. We have all had our fun It would be completely inappropriate. Because we do with it. The Conservative spokesman had a bit of fun not know what conditions will be, it seems foolish to set today, with jokes about the Chancellor being hauled off targets in stone in legislative form. to the Tower of London, and about unenforceable Does that mean that the legislation is completely legislation. I shall try to approach it in a different way, pointless? No, there is a role for legislation to strengthen to try to understand what the Government are trying the fiscal framework. I am probably not too far from to do. the Conservative spokesman in his belief that we need Is there a role for declaratory legislation, which sets an additional independent element in fiscal policy, as an objective that is not intended to be enforced or we have in monetary policy with the Bank of England. cannot be enforced? Does such legislation actually have However, my party’s approach would be more modest. a role? The point that has been made to me, and has There is probably an argument for giving the National also been made from the Back Benches, is that such Audit Office a stronger role in auditing what the legislation has been introduced in other contexts; for Government have done—not just their forecasts as at example, climate change. I think all parties have signed present. The NAO could make an assessment about up to targets in that context. That is a serious point. whether the Government have delivered on their targets. There are two differences, however. First, setting We have already had some strengthening of the legislation quantitative targets that have a major impact on long-term regarding the independence of the statistics office. That business planning is different from setting financial was a step forward and there is an argument for an targets in a rapidly moving economic world. There is a independent audit role—an Ofsted—on fiscal policy. I fundamental difference. The climate change targets are agree with that, although I should not create quite such important, too, because they link directly to treaty an elaborate institution as the Conservative spokesman obligations, so there is an argument for embedding proposes. None the less, there is a role for strengthening them in the law. I accept that. It is an interesting the institutional backbone of fiscal policy. precedent for the law being used to set good objectives I switch to the other, much bigger subject: what is that cannot be enforced. Let us apply it to the present happening in the banking system. Over the past couple case. Is it sensible or helpful for the Government’s fiscal of days, we have been reminded in several ways that objectives, which I think are to halve their estimate of major problems are still unresolved. There was yesterday’s the structural deficit within a Parliament, to be embodied Supreme Court ruling on banks imposing what many in the law? people regard as unfair charges. There were also the The Government have created a dilemma for themselves. revelations about the so-called secret loan. Today, we If there is a rapid economic recovery, which I know the have seen the pathetic report from a City insider—the Government hope for and some of their projections Walker report, which is an absolute disgrace. Before I suggest will happen, the objectives are far too modest, came to the Chamber today, I was in a television studio because if there is rapid growth it will be possible to with Lord Myners, whose eyes were rolling in reduce the fiscal deficit more rapidly. On the other hand embarrassment as he tried to explain away the fact that if, as I fear may be the case, the British economy does the Government are committed to that rather pathetic not recover rapidly, we shall have all kinds of impediment. and limited document. The banking system will not be working properly. The monetary policy stimulus will have to be terminated Mr. Graham Stuart: Does the hon. Gentleman agree within the next year or so, in all probability, so we shall that although the covert lending was probably right in not have growth. In those circumstances, the Government’s the circumstances, it was unethical for the Government modest objectives may be much more realistic. However, then to lean on another bank and broker a deal under we do not know which of those two futures will evolve. which shareholders could not be told about the covert 727 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 728 loan? One bank merged with another with a huge loss The Governor said exactly what we Liberal Democrats of shareholder value. Even if we accept that the covert have been saying: the structure of the British banks is loan should have happened, we cannot accept mergers not sustainable, and that is a serious problem. That of institutions without openness, truth and transparency problem does not centre entirely on the issue of the about what is really happening. links between the narrow banks and the so-called casino banks, but he is seriously concerned. He is absolutely Dr. Cable: I think that was exactly what I said yesterday right to be concerned, because some of our very large in relation to Lloyds bank. Equally, I said, and meant, global banks, which, for the most part, happen to have that it was right for the Government to support the large investment banking operations, are expanding, or banking system and that there was a role for covert wish to expand, on the back of the Government guarantee. lending. I have no difficulty with that. I just want to We know that in future crises, that guarantee will be make it clear, as I have done many times in the past, that called, as it was in this crisis. That is not an acceptable although I have major disagreements with the way the or sustainable position. Government managed the economy up to the crisis and At some point in the near future, the Government with the way they have managed the banking system will have an obligation to intervene to break up the very since, the intervention last October was right in almost large banks, so that those banks do not create such a every respect. It was right to give the guarantees, to degree of risk. I am not sufficiently expert on the make major Government equity investment and to partially banking system to be precise on how that is to be done, nationalise the banking system. I do not retract that in but it could be done in different ways. The Government any way. must respond. I do not expect them to respond to me, However, major problems are unresolved and the but I expect them to respond to the warnings of the Government have been failing by not addressing them. Governor of the Bank of England, who continues to The first—where the Conservative spokesman rightly point out that the issue is the major unresolved problem; started—is the failure of lending. As information trickles it has not been addressed. out, we are discovering that although Lloyds is broadly On the issue of bonuses and remuneration, I have meeting its gross lending objective, its net lending flows read the relevant sections of the Walker report. It pretty are very limited indeed. NatWest and RBS are failing much reiterates what was said some months ago by even to meet the limited lending objectives they were Lord Turner, and what was already largely agreed at the set. One noticed in the press last week that RBS was G20. The issue is implementation, and how we create a willing to cough up enormous sums to help Kraft to regime in which bonuses are paid predominantly in take over Cadbury, but that semi-nationalised bank is shares, rather than cash. My question for the Government still unwilling to lend to very large numbers of good, is whether legislation is necessary to achieve that purpose. solvent British companies. They have a good credit I am not a parliamentary draftsman or a lawyer. I was history and track record, yet they cannot get credit on under the impression that the financial services legislation reasonable terms. There is a major policy failure, which and the powers devolved to the Financial Services Authority is the failure of Government representatives in United were adequate to allow it to impose an appropriate Kingdom Financial Investments Ltd to make it absolutely regime on the banks. Is that the case? What legal advice clear that they have an obligation to act in the national available to the Government has told them that they interest. have to come back with yet another banking Bill to introduce measures that the FSA has clearly said are Mr. Mark Field: Although I accept what the hon. absolutely necessary to maintain the stability of the Gentleman says, does he not feel that a fundamental system? problem is that huge amounts of toxic assets in our The Walker report became a topical issue today, banks have still not been identified? That is the main particularly as it relates to transparency and disclosure. failing. He is right to point out that it has been manifested There has been a movement in the argument over the in the lack of credit for small and medium-sized enterprises, past few months. It was clear that Ministers expected but many people regard the unravelling of toxic assets and wanted the Walker report to propose full disclosure as work that is very much in progress. It will take in relation to not just the generality of what they call another two years. top-end employees, but those employees’individual rewards. The Walker report has clearly backed off from making Dr. Cable: The unravelling of the toxic asset problem that recommendation under pressure. may take a decade, which was the experience in many I think that Lord Myners is on record as having said other banking crises. In the meantime, there is absolutely that he saw no problem with individual disclosure. Why no reason why a clear steer should not be given to the should there be a problem with it? Board members of nationalised and semi-nationalised banks to maintain a public limited companies disclose their emoluments. lending policy that helps to sustain the British economy, What is there to hide? We are not talking about private but that is clearly not happening. companies that are completely independent. I can well The second big issue, which is not being addressed understand why an entrepreneur setting up an engineering properly, is the structure of the banks. The Chancellor company—a private company—might wish to protect always groans when I raise the subject with him, and their privacy and not declare all their income, except to comes back with his prepared line: “That’s got nothing the tax man, but why should that apply in the cases that to do with the structure of the banks, and it was small, we are discussing? The banks in question are ultimately narrow banks such as Northern Rock that collapsed.” I guaranteed by the taxpayer, and have an obligation. do not particularly want to turn this into a personal We have had an embarrassing light shone on dark argument with him; I simply suggest that he reads the corners in this House in the past few months. It has evidence that the Governor of the Bank of England been quite painful, but I think that most people now yesterday gave to the Treasury Committee. accept that it was legitimate to shine that light, and that 729 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 730

[Dr. Cable] “The net consequence is that the margin between savings rates and mortgage rates has been eroded. it is fundamentally healthy, in the long run, for there to But the demand for retail deposits is so intense that rates have be more transparency. That applies not just to Members been pushed up in some cases to uneconomic levels. And this is of Parliament, but to other people in society, particularly often by institutions that carry real or implied unlimited guarantees those who depend on a taxpayer guarantee. The because of their full or part state ownership.” Government should have absolutely no inhibition in Similar pressures and potential distortions operate in demanding individual disclosure. That is the central the wholesale and inter-bank markets. The building weakness of the Walker report recommendation. I note, societies that are able to access those markets face a however, that the Chancellor appears to be conceding bigger differential, as compared with the banks, than that £1 million is perhaps a little bit too high an amount they did a few years ago. I hope that the Minister who at which to set the poverty level in the City; he seems to replies to the debate can give me an assurance that the be willing to drop that amount a little, and that is a step Government and the Financial Services Authority are forward. On the question of individual disclosure, the fully seized of that, and of the importance of ensuring report is, frankly, pathetically weak. Stronger action fair conditions and regulations for the building society from the Government is needed. sector. It would be an utter tragedy if the action taken I agree with quite a lot of the things that the Conservative to rescue the public from banks that were responsible shadow Chancellor said, but he has a phrase that he for the financial mess had the perverse consequence of invented: “We’re all in this together.” The truth is that weakening the building societies, which were not responsible we are not all in this together. Some people have done for it. extraordinarily well out of the crisis. There is enormous The second issue that I want to raise, which has not prosperity in parts of the country, much of it unearned featured much so far this afternoon, is the importance and much of it lucky. At the same time, there is enormous of environmental sustainability and responsibility in poverty and hardship, and there are people struggling bank regulation in general, and in the lending policies with unemployment. We need to reflect our concerns of banks sustained by public funds in particular. Let us about those widening inequalities of income and wealth take the example of the Royal Bank of Scotland. The in the tax system, and in how we approach the regulation Guardian reported on 2 March this year that in the six of remuneration. months following the initial bail-out, RBS had been involved in financing loans worth nearly £10 billion to Several hon. Members rose— coal, oil and gas companies. That is more than a quarter Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Michael Lord): Order. Before of the amount that the bank had received from taxpayers I call the next speaker, may I remind the House that at that point. Its loans finance oil exploitation in conflict Mr. Speaker has placed a 10-minute limit on speeches? regions in Africa and south Asia, drilling in untouched That applies from now. areas of the Arctic, tar sands oil extraction, and open-cast mining. We need to question very seriously whether, at a 2.5 pm time when we rightly voice the priority that must be given to combating climate change, those are the investment Mr. Andrew Smith (Oxford, East) (Lab): I welcome priorities that public funds should be underwriting. the Government’s measures in the legislative programme, just as I welcome the steps that they have taken to get I ask the Government to consider the environmental the economy growing again. The extraordinary global conditions that they should place on the bailed-out crisis that we have been through has reinforced the case banks’ use of public money, and I commend to my right for strong Government action, and there is no doubt hon. Friend the Chancellor and his colleagues the excellent that the action that our Government and others have book by Nick Silver, chair of the actuarial profession’s taken has made the difference between recession and resource and environment group, who, in conjunction depression, and has shortened the period of recession. with a number of environmental non-governmental organisations, puts the case for RBS becoming a bank I would like to flag up two areas of concern, where of sustainability. a positive response from Ministers could make our programme even stronger. One is the position of mutuals, There are three main thrusts to the argument. First, an issue to which others have referred on other days in UK Financial Investments Ltd, as the custodian of the this debate. Successful mutual financial institutions have public interest, should ensure that RBS and others in particular strengths, in terms of a sensible balance which it holds a stake follow good practice for institutional between their borrowing and lending policies. They investors in relation to environmental, social and governance enjoy greater trust, especially among customers, than considerations. The Government also have environmental most banks. They are important to many communities and social obligations, so they should go further and and families throughout the country and, of course, seek positive incentives for environmentally sustainable they are critical for the housing market. investment policies, including targets for, and the monitoring It is crucial that mutuals should not suffer from of, cuts in damaging emissions. distortion of the financial markets because of the huge Secondly, as RBS is an important provider of finance amounts of money and effective underwriting that the to fossil-fuel and carbon-intensive industries, it, together Government have had to provide for the banks. There is with the businesses in which it invests, is attempting to widespread concern about that among building societies. externalise the risks of climate change which, sooner or That concern was voiced a couple of weeks ago by the later, will fall on taxpayers. Those are the same taxpayers Building Societies Association chairman, Graham Beale, who now own RBS, so those external costs are no who said that in circumstances in which financial institutions longer carried by a third party. We can cut the long-term were trying to refinance their balance sheets in the retail cost to the taxpayer by acting now on sustainability. rather than the wholesale market, That is the important message. 731 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 732

Thirdly, if we are to cut our carbon-reduction targets, Even more seriously, I believe that the reason why I we need a huge increase in investment in low-carbon was written to this week, 13 months late, is that the industries and renewable energy. I know that the National Audit Office was closing in. The NAO’s report Government accept that point, and clearly RBS could on the banking support measures is imminent, and play a big and environmentally beneficial role, making earlier the Treasury Committee Chairman spoke, on a good use of its expertise in renewable energy. The point of order, in much stronger terms than myself. He Environmental Audit Committee commended that said that he believed that the NAO was closing in and approach to the Government in its report on 10 March, the Government decided that they had to release the when it recommended that information now, 13 months late. That is a serious “the Treasury examine and report on how some form of environmental matter, and I shall not let it go. criteria for the investment strategies these”— I shall keep pursuing it, because this is why Parliament Government-controlled— is set up—to protect the interests of the taxpayer and “banks pursue might be imposed, and what impacts this might the people of this country. Occasionally Governments have on UK sustainable development objectives.” have to do things in secret and to protect the markets, I hope that the Government will see the good sense in but if they do they have to observe the protocols. They those ideas, and I am pleased that my good and right did not do so, and for the Chancellor to tell me yesterday hon. Friend the Chancellor is here to hear them. There that he was absolved from doing so by the Banking is enough of the Treasury chip still in my brain for me Act 2009, which by the way came into force months to know how resistant Treasury culture will be to those after the indemnity was given, is not good enough. I ideas, but they raise vital issues that will not go away. If shall leave the matter there, but we must return to it. there is a global danger even more potent than financial Like all other hon. Members who have spoken, I meltdown, it is climate change. It is surely right that, in want to express extraordinary concern about the fact pumping billions into the banking sector and looking at that, as of 31 October, total public sector debt stood at how to regulate it against financial irresponsibility, we £829 billion. That is 59 per cent. of total national put in place requirements for environmental responsibility output. My hon. Friend the shadow Chancellor made to help the world to avert climate catastrophe. the point that there is now a very real danger that the ratings agencies—Moody’s, Standard and Poor’s and so 2.13 pm on—may start to question the UK’s ability to pay its debt and downgrade the triple A rating that we currently Mr. Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): I am just enjoy. That would make it more expensive for all of us about to refer to the Chancellor, so, as he is leaving the to borrow. For the UK and for corporations, lower Chamber, I hope that he will not mind if I take issue investment in the UK and higher unemployment could with what he said earlier this afternoon. My point result, leading to a disastrous double-dip recession. relates to the very serious matter of the loan that was Let us forget party politics for a moment. There is no made to HBOS and RBS. I am not arguing with the choice: we have to address the deficit. The Government principle that the Government wanted to keep it secret tell us that they are, indeed, going to reduce the deficit so as not to destabilise the markets; I am saying that by half by the end of the next Parliament, but they have there are clearly established protocols, whereby, when offered only broad clues about what they intend to do, the Government decide to give an indemnity in secret—for with hints at tax increases and spending cuts. They are instance, on a matter affecting national security—they only hints, however; there are few detailed policies. must inform Parliament in confidence through the There was one detailed policy, which would have saved Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee and the only £300 million, and that was a pay freeze for top Chairman of the Select Committee on the Treasury. public sector earners. That is £300 million; it is nothing. There is a very good reason why. It is not my amour- Surely the people of this country, or Parliament, must propre, or that of the Treasury Committee Chairman, have some idea of what the Government, if they are who is equally upset about the matter; it is because if I, re-elected, will do to try to deal with public sector debt as the Chairman of the PAC, had been informed of the of £829 billion. matter, I would have told nobody. I would not have told I shall not get involved in great macro-economic anybody from my party’s Front-Bench team or anybody arguments with any ideas that I might have; I shall go else. I would, however, have discussed it with one person— right down to the micro level. I have now chaired the and one person only: the Comptroller and Auditor best part of 400 PAC sessions, in which we have looked General. He is the auditor of the Government, an at Government efficiency, and one way in which we can independent figure, and he would have checked matters climb out of this black hole—it is only one way in which out and ensured that the whole thing was kosher. That we will achieve only part of the object—is to carry out is why he is there, and he would have done so in Government programmes much more efficiently. complete confidence. I am worried that if a new Government are elected in Over the eight years that I have been Chairman of the May, or even if this Government are re-elected, Ministers, Public Accounts Committee, I have been told in confidence for instance at the Ministry of Defence, will be under of many instances, particularly concerning national Treasury instructions to cut x per cent. off their budget. security, when the Government have had to issue indemnity. So, the number of new aircraft carriers may be reduced I have never leaked a single thing. In the 150-year from two to one; there may be a question mark over the history of the PAC, no Chairman has ever leaked joint strike fighter; or the number of Trident submarines anything that has ever been given to them of that may be reduced from four to three. In other words, the nature. It is a serious matter—that, contrary to all those MOD will get up to its old tricks of moving programmes protocols and conventions, the Government decided sideways and delaying them. But what about the efficiency not to inform Parliament in confidence through the of the procurement executive? New Ministers will have Chairmen of those two Committees. to get to grips with that issue on day one, and they may 733 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 734

[Mr. Edward Leigh] demonstrate the continued importance of the Government performing a substantial role in bringing this country have to bring in outside help. We cannot allow the out of a worldwide recession. public sector, particularly the civil service, to continue It never ceases to amaze me that the Government’s with layers of management which simply do not exist in critics seem conveniently to have forgotten the cause, the private sector. scale and unknown depth of this recession. In the The PAC has, I think, made some progress in the past context of employment, this year alone 38 million jobs eight years. We can make only so much, but we have will be lost worldwide, in which case Britain has done identified proven savings—I wrote to the Chancellor exceptionally well to withstand the hurricane of job earlier this week on the matter—of £4 billion. However, losses devastating the jobs market around the world. we have now gone further and identified another £9 billion Without Government action, a further 500,000 jobs that we can save without changing a single policy. I would have been lost. Cutting VAT and cutting income know that this is the detail of the debate and that it is tax were designed to help people and support the economy; not as exciting as the party political debate, but £9 billion 150,000 businesses were given more time to pay their is a serious amount of money and it can be saved. The tax bills; and unprecedented measures have been put in savings have all been audited by the National Audit place to help 300,000 people stay in their own homes. Office, representatives of which come to our Committee. The Queen’s Speech sets out a programme of tough If any of the recommendations we have made in the action on the big issues that matter to people. There is past eight years had been carried out, we could have of course an alternative vision, which I would characterise saved not only the £4 billion, but another £9 billion. as fundamentally pessimistic. The claim that Britain is I shall give a few examples. Some £1.4 billion could broken is simply not true and I will offer my rebuttal in be saved by Departments sharing back-office services due course in this speech. Nor is it true to say there is no such as finance and human resources; and £2.5 billion alternative to looking towards an age of austerity. Leaving could be saved by all Departments matching the level of people to sink or swim in a recession is an untenable, staff cost reductions achieved by the Department for unforgivable and unworthy stance, and this Government Work and Pensions, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs can never be accused of taking it. and the Ministry of Defence. Even a relatively simple twist of the hellishly complex benefits system could save Of course, this is a difficult period for our country a staggering £110 million, which would be a start. If the but we need to remain optimistic. Britain has a bright whole of Whitehall matched the example of some future based on its greatest strength: the talent and Departments in reducing running costs such as those enterprise of our people. There will be difficult decisions for accommodation and IT, more than £1.3 billion as we move out of this recession, but the answer is not could be saved. There is more. Improving how the to drain the life blood out of our constituents nor drain public sector contracts and manages construction projects them of confidence and hope for the future. It would be could save more than £2.6 billion, and developing the a grave mistake to end the economic stimulus at this commercial skills of those who wield the Government’s time. We have learned that when Government do nothing, significant buying power could realise potential savings the market does not necessarily always provide. Choking of more than £700 million, through cannier procurement off recovery by turning off the life support prematurely of goods and services. Better use of consultants—the would be fatal to growth, jobs, prosperity and our Committee has done a lot of work on them—alone capacity to grow, not just for now, but for years to come. could save £400 million. That is £9 billion just there. I particularly welcome the proposed measures in the I am not making a sales pitch for the PAC. I believe Financial Services Bill, which demonstrate how the that there must be a total change in attitude in the Government can provide the regulatory framework for public sector; that Ministers and civil servants should a prosperous but stable financial sector. In the past year, assume that when they are spending public money, it is I have received more inquiries from small businesses in as if they are spending from their own personal bank my constituency than ever before. In the main, they accounts; and that the days of rapid rises in spending have been about bank lending. I have made those are now over. representations known to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor, including as recently as yesterday, and I am Actually, in a way, the days of targets may be over, delighted to acknowledge that the Prime Minister in his because targets work in a growing budget. Typically, in recent speech to the CBI said that RBS and Lloyds, the past 12 years, the Government have come out with a backed by the Government, will provide £27 billion of worthy objective and required the civil service to carry it new lending for businesses this year and next and that out. When that did not happen, the Government had to other banks will follow. That is exactly the leadership impose targets. It is going to be very difficult to impose language and action that small businesses up and down targets on a shrinking, contracting budget. The Government the country want. That is why the business community are going to have to trust professionals and cap their will always reject the notion of austere government. budgets in the health and education services, and they are going to have to ensure that our civil servants and I am acutely aware that the construction industry has managers deliver services to the front line, and not cut suffered during this recession. Re-igniting house building them while protecting their own jobs. That is not a good programmes would help not only the industry, but enough attitude from our public servants. those who seek to find homes for themselves in future. I should like to cite just a couple of ideas that resonate with many in the construction industry, namely placing 2.22 pm new obligations on banks proactively to lend to small Mr. Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) and medium-sized enterprises, and making mortgage (Lab): May I begin by saying that I welcome the economic finance available to key first-time buyers who are priced measures in this Queen’s Speech? I believe that they out of the market by exorbitant deposit requirements. 735 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 736

In my view we will never get the demand back into the opportunities; and some very good intentions, although housing market unless there are some special provisions we all know what the road to hell is paved with. The for first-time buyers. good things include the ban on cluster munitions, which Recently in my constituency, I had a meeting with is absolutely right albeit far too late, and the home-school Scottish Enterprise officials. The subject of discussion contracts, a very good idea from this side of the House. was the failure by some banks to lend to small businesses. I welcome those aspects of the Queen’s Speech. However, that should now start to change. I urged I am the Chairman of a Select Committee and I do Scottish Enterprise, as I do again today, to step up its not want to be too partisan today, but the dividing lines efforts, and stressed that, in a time of recession and worry me. My hon. Friend the shadow Chancellor set given the considerable public investment in Gartcosh them out well in his opening remarks and I say as a business park in my constituency, it was time that the parliamentarian, and more in sorrow than in anger, that full potential of this site was realised. In terms of a Government at the end of their allotted span should vision, location, connections and opportunity, this site be concerned about the good of the country, not trying has it all, and more importantly it has the capacity to to wrong-foot the Opposition. It is a shame that the employ around 1,200 people. That is what I want to see Government do not realise where their priorities should happen sooner rather than later, as a quarter of a lie. It amuses me sometimes with some justice when century is a long time to wait. When that does happen, things blow up in their face. For example, the free unemployment in my constituency will start to fall personal care proposals in the Queen’s Speech blew up dramatically. in their face, just like the 10p tax rate. Dividing lines do I am also pleased that there is much activity in the not always benefit those who seek to do the dividing. business start-up rate. In Lanarkshire, 2,000 individuals The tragedy is that the good intentions in the Bill are have been provided with pre-start-up advice. Total starts often also used to seek to divide. The commitment to are well ahead of the same period last year. There is still continue to enshrine in law the abolition of child poverty a healthy number of higher growth prospects in the by 2020 is an honourable aspiration, although one pipeline, but difficulties raising finance are obvious. We might ask why 2020 and not 2018 or 2022. As for the have a vibrant local business community in my constituency. intention to legislate to halve the deficit, halving or While I applaud the steps that the Government and reducing the deficit is clearly a good idea, but why other agencies have taken to help, there is always more halving? Why do we need legislation to do that in the that we can do. I know that the Chancellor is working first place? That point was ably made by the shadow hard to increase lending, and I ask him to continue to Chancellor and the Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman. work hard for small businesses. We may see more evidence To ask who would be prosecuted if we fail and what of that in his pre-Budget report. would be the legal sanction is to understand the folly of I end by paying tribute to North Lanarkshire council the proposal. Who is being prosecuted for the Government’s which successfully bid for 1,080 jobs from the Government’s failure to meet fuel poverty targets? As far as I am future jobs fund. This stimulus has helped bring the aware, no one is. country to the verge of recovery as predicted earlier this We do not need legislation on such issues. We share a year. I am glad that the Government are manifestly commitment across the House to achieve those things helping families through this difficult period. What it in different ways, to different time scales or by different proves is that business prospers when the Government methods. It is not the legislation that matters: it is the invest and regulate sensibly. There is no question but action that we should be taking. What we should have that the Chancellor and the Prime Minister have won heard from the Government is a clearer establishment the argument here in the United Kingdom, and their of their priorities, not their spurious legislative intentions. leadership skills during this economic crisis are admired around the world. Protecting our long-term competitiveness as a nation requires action, not law, as well as some difficult decisions. 2.31 pm To be fair to the Government, they are taking some of Peter Luff (Mid-Worcestershire) (Con): It is a privilege those difficult decisions, as well as some easy ones. I to follow the right hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston wish publicly to thank the Under-Secretary of State for and Bellshill (Mr. Clarke), who is one of the most Business, Innovation and Skills, the hon. Member for decent and loyal Members of the House. I share his Wrexham (Ian Lucas), for the announcement he made optimism about the prospects for our nation, but we yesterday about the filling of the post of chief construction need to admit that our society, politics and economy are adviser. That is a valuable response by the Government all broken and need a fresh approach. to a recommendation from my Select Committee that If more time had been available, I would have liked to will greatly help the construction industry to improve paint some of the background to the economy that its relationship with Government. I am really pleased underlies my concerns and to talk at length about the about that. issues confronting the unemployed, especially the young Let me say another public thank you to the Minister. unemployed. It was an unusual deviation from his normal Towards the end of the previous Session, he gave me a high standards for my good friend the hon. Member for rather churlish reply to a parliamentary question on the Wolverhampton, South-West (Rob Marris) to say that national competency strategy, but he has responded because we did not talk about unemployment much, we magnificently today with what appears to be a good do not care about it. Of course we care passionately strategy and the welcome announcement of a major about unemployment, but I do not have the time to talk national composite centre of excellence centred on Bristol, at the length that I would wish. which is the right place to put it. That sounds like a very The Queen’s Speech has four characteristics, which boring and anoraky subject to those who do not understand are some genuinely good things; some dividing lines, it, but composite technology lies at the heart of our which we would be better off without; some missed economic competitiveness, particularly in the aerospace 737 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 738

[Peter Luff] I am sorry that clauses 38 and 39 of the Bill do not address the provision of compensation for radio sector and, as the document—I have not read it in microphones flowing from new access arrangements for detail—rightly says, in the manufacture of wind turbine the electro-magnetic spectrum. In their “Digital Britain” blades. It is applicable in a whole stack of areas, including White Paper, the Government made a commitment to marine renewables technology, that require composites provide compensation for radio microphone users, but that do not corrode like metal. There are huge opportunities, they seem to be wriggling off that hook. I hope that that so well done the Government on that—although it commitment will be honoured in full. It would breach would be good to get the same amount of enthusiasm the sector’s human rights, apart from anything else, and behind getting the automotive assistance scheme up possibly destroy large sections of our entertainment, and working. broadcasting and sporting industries were that There are some difficult decisions to take in the compensation not to be offered as promised. That is context of the severe budget constraints that we all one of the missed opportunities in the Bill. know we face, Conservative Members included. If I Another missed opportunity relates to a Bill that died argue that we should not cut funding for university a sad and tragic death in the last Session—the Postal research, as I think that we should not, what conclusions Services Bill. I understand that the Government think do I reach on other aspects of Government spending? If that the linkage of part privatisation and settling the I also think that the budget of UK Trade and Investment pension deficit should be brought together, but no should probably be protected to help our exporters to longer feel able to propose that. We all know the reasons, export out of recession and bring wealth to the country, but I will not go into that today in the limited time what further compromises do I have to make? I was available. But what about regulation of the sector? We struck by the fact that the radical proposals by the could move to make the reforms suggested in the Hooper Institute of Directors to slash £50 billion from public review and bring Postcomm within Ofcom. Indeed, I spending also exempted UKTI from the axe. would suggest that the Digital Economy Bill provides a In the dying months of this Government, we need a vehicle to do that. Why not take the sections of the focus on action, not legislation. I worry that such declaratory Postal Services Bill dealing with regulatory issues and legislation takes time away from issues on which we do implement them as part of that Bill? The sector cannot need to legislate; it distracts us with unworthy debates live in this regulatory hiatus, with Postcomm dying on that we do not need to have. I think particularly of what its feet, not knowing its own future. Urgent action is is, for me, perhaps the most important Bill in the required. Queen’s Speech—the Digital Economy Bill. That raises A lot of other things could be done, too. For example, some hugely important questions that we started to I believe that an omission of some seriousness from the tease out with the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Queen’s Speech is measures to deal with illegal immigration, Innovation and Skills, the right hon. Member for East particularly that caused by fraudulent student applications. Ham (Mr. Timms), who is also Financial Secretary, a Why can we not move to a system of accreditation of couple of days ago. We do not know what the 2 megabits institutions? Good universities and further education per second universal service obligation mentioned in colleges know who they are admitting, but at present we the Bill really means, which is worrying. Is it a minimum? are not working on that basis and there has been a Is it an average, and if so, which kind—median or massive increase in what appear to be fraudulent mode? Is it an advertised speed? We all know what that applications from the Indian sub-continent. Why can means, coming from internet service providers. we not say that if an accredited institution is in receipt of a student, there should be an automatic assumption Are we right to put public investment into a massive that that student’s application should succeed? expansion of next generation access networks beyond that which the market would deliver? That is an important If we want to do good by small deeds, as I believe we issue for the House to examine. Should we not be should, why not legislate for a grocery market ombudsman, concentrating on the 40 per cent. of households who do as called for in early-day motion 192, which I signed not have access to broadband at all because they choose today? What a good step that would be to help the small not to? It is there, they could take it, but they do business sector. That is the type of small good deed in a not—why? Rather than worrying about imposing new wicked world that the Government should be doing, taxes—the 50p tax on fixed lines seems very regressive, rather than following grand strategies and making grand and, interestingly, represents one of the first occasions statements that are politically motivated and achieve on which the Treasury has authorised an hypothecated nothing. This Government should have died with dignity. tax, which could be a dangerous precedent—should we Instead, new Labour dies as it lives—partisan and divisive. not be sorting out the mess of the business rate system, It is a sad epitaph after such a confident beginning back which deters investment in new fibre optic cables? Is it in 1997. right for the Government to pick technologies to roll out next generation access? What will happen to satellite technology over the next few years? It might deliver 2.41 pm faster, cheaper options for more remote communities. Mr. George Howarth (Knowsley, North and Sefton, However, the Government are certainly right to attack East) (Lab): I welcome the measures set out in the illegal file sharing. Getting the protocols right and Queen’s Speech. There are some useful measures that ensuring that proper warnings are issued by ISPs before will serve the country well if they make it on to the they cut off the account holder is absolutely the right statute book. However, I wish mainly to draw a contrast thing to do. Protecting the UK’s creativity lies at the between what is happening today in our country and heart of one aspect of our economic prosperity, and I what happened in the 1980s and 1990s, when we had a congratulate the Government on their position on that. Conservative Government. 739 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 740

A good starting point is the recent credit crunch and Labour Government, is one of the most deprived towns downturn that we have experienced as part of the in Britain. I am astonished that the Government can worldwide credit problems. There is no doubt that it has turn away £400 million of investment in a town that been a serious downturn with serious consequences, desperately needs regeneration. It still needs investment and we have heard a great deal of statistics relating to it in jobs, of which that package would have produced today. However, in 1991, at the height of the last thousands. Conservative Government’s downturn, unemployment The local authority, many residents and those who in Knowsley as a whole, including my constituency, support progress are now bitter about the action taken stood at 25 per cent. Now, as we start to move gently by the Secretary of State. I am calling for the Government out of the current downturn, it stands at 8.9 per cent. to work with me, Knowsley council, Tesco and Everton That is unacceptable, by the way, and I am not for one football club, which is involved in the project too, to minute crowing that it is only 8.9 per cent., because it consider whether a new application, perhaps slightly means that a lot of people who want jobs do not have scaled down, can be fast-tracked and put before the them, but the contrast is nevertheless worth pointing Secretary of State, so that the regeneration of Kirkby out. Some economists forecast that if the Tory approach and the necessary number of jobs can be delivered. to the economy were adopted, in so far as we can work One of the reasons why my right hon. Friend turned out entirely what it is, it is quite possible that unemployment down the application was the major opposition from would reach 5 million. [Interruption.] Some reputable Liverpool city council, St. Helens council and West economic forecasters have made precisely that point. Lancashire district council. The Liverpool city region My second point is about public services and investment, now has a multi-area agreement and a city region and the partnership between, in my case, Knowsley cabinet led by the excellent leader of Knowsley council, council and a Labour Government. Through the Building Councillor Ron Round. But what good has it done us? Schools for the Future programme, every secondary What good has all the borough’s work on that city-wide school in the borough has just reopened, or will reopen layer of government brought us? All it has brought us is over the next few months, as a brand-new learning opposition and no help from surrounding local authorities. centre at a cost of £150 million. Not only are they in I spoke to Councillor Round this morning, and I brand-new buildings, they have a completely different must warn the Government that he is considering whether education philosophy. It is important to relate the matter Knowsley can carry on within the city region cabinet, back to real young people by saying that even before which he leads and chairs. He might well conclude that that, the rate of A* to C GCSE passes increased in the he has to withdraw, and if he takes that decision, I will past decade from a pitifully low 17 per cent. to more support him. than 57 per cent. It is still climbing, and there is still room for improvement, but that shows the contrast Finally, there is the question of my support for the rather well. Government. I have been in government and out of government, but in more than 20 years of being a In addition, we can consider the health service. Two Member of Parliament, I have always been a loyal weeks ago, my hon. Friend the Member for Halton supporter of a Labour Government when we are in (Derek Twigg) and I had the privilege of visiting the power, and of a Labour Opposition when we have been brand-new hospital in Whiston, which will serve our in opposition. However, unless the problem in Kirkby is constituents. It is an astonishingly good building that resolved quickly, the Government cannot continue to cost £250 million, and it simply would not have been rely on my support. built without a Labour Government. To bring the debate back to a human scale, a few 2.50 pm weeks ago, a constituent of mine, Dave Ryan, who is a head teacher, went to a local NHS walk-in health centre Mr. Henry Bellingham (North-West Norfolk) (Con): feeling ill. While he was there, they discovered that he I declare my interests as recorded in the Register of was in the middle of a heart attack. He was then taken Members’ Financial Interests. We have just heard an to the cardiothoracic centre in Liverpool, of which my extraordinary speech, and I think that all hon. Members hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Walton greatly respect the right hon. Member for Knowsley, (Mr. Kilfoyle) has had some happy experience. Within North and Sefton, East (Mr. Howarth) for his commitment hours, Mr. Ryan had had surgery and was back on the to his city, his constituency and his constituents. Obviously, road to recovery. Let us contrast that with the hours of whatever course of action he takes, we will admire it waiting on trolleys and months of waiting for an operation, because he does it in the interests of his constituency. or even an appointment, that were typical of the Listening to the Prime Minister last week, it seemed Conservative Governments of the 1980s and 1990s. incredible that this was the iron Chancellor who 10 years I come now to the “however”: Knowsley council, ago proclaimed prudence and thrift and put in place together with Tesco, put together a £400 million investment golden rules. It is also difficult to believe that, at the package—all private sector money—for Kirkby in my start of the recession, the Chancellor’s Budget in March constituency. The package received planning permission 2008 included a forecast of public borrowing of £38 billion, from the local authority, went through a public inquiry or 2.5 per cent. of gross domestic product. He stated and then sat on the desk of the Secretary of State for then that net debt would remain below 40 per cent. and Communities and Local Government, who yesterday that it would be at that level till 2013. Fast forward announced that he had turned down that opportunity. 18 months and the figures are horrendous. The borrowing He has turned down £400 million of private sector forecast in the previous Budget was £175 billion— investment in Kirkby, which, notwithstanding the 12.5 per cent. of GDP. That is now likely to go up to improvements that I described earlier, and which we £200 billion and beyond. Our national debt is now have genuinely experienced as a result of having a 60 per cent. of GDP and increasing. It will probably 741 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 742

[Mr. Henry Bellingham] if we do not take the necessary action and confidence then dissipates, we could be facing a sterling crisis, reach 100 per cent. in a year or so. Public borrowing for rising interest rates and perhaps a gilt issuance strike last month—October—was 88 times the figure for the as well. previous year. The figure of £200 billion that I just Her Majesty’s Government have to rebuild the public mentioned may therefore seem optimistic. All the time, finances without putting the brakes on demand. That is tax revenues are plummeting. why even though public expenditure is going to have to I am concerned about the interest on our national be cut back and whoever gets into office after the debt that we are paying now and that we will pay in the election will have to think about tax increases, it has to years to come. It is currently around 6 per cent. of GDP, be done in a way that does not stifle the private sector, but it is likely to reach 10 per cent.—more than £75 but allows it to continue to maximise wealth creation. billion, which is more than the combined budget for That means more enterprise, more entrepreneurship schools and transport. In 1976, national debt as a and supporting small and medium-sized enterprises. It percentage of GDP was 10 per cent. when the then must mean lower business taxes, lower business rates Chancellor, Denis Healey, went to the International and better access to credit, and it must also mean Monetary Fund. Any amount over 10 per cent. means substantially less regulation. As my hon. Friend the that the debt begins to compound, and most credit Member for Tatton said a few moments ago, we need rating agencies start to get worried about any figure another enterprise revolution. over 12.5 per cent. because one is then heading into As I look around my constituency and talk to businesses uncharted territory, and there is a genuine problem large and small alike, they tell me that they are not about funding gilt sales. getting access to finance and credit, or the help from the There is an assumption that the debt will be bought banks that they expected. Indeed, they are not getting and that investors will still have the appetite to continue the support they need even from the publicly owned buying it. I wonder whether they will, because the UK banks, the ones owned mainly by UK Financial Investments Government alone are planning a record issuance of Ltd. Furthermore, they are very worried about business £220 billion of debt this fiscal year and exactly the same rates. I received two e-mails over the last couple of days amount in each of the next four years. That means that from businesses in my constituency, which explained the total worldwide sovereign debt for next year will that the business rates to be paid in the next financial reach £9.1 trillion, which is an extraordinary figure. I year are going up by 27 per cent.—and that comes on am concerned that, if UK interest rates go up by even a top of a 34 per cent. increase in 2005. The Government small amount, we will be in real danger of reaching a must look at the business rate burden on SMEs; they debt trap. It is therefore essential that the Government—and, must look at the rate of small firms’ corporation tax; indeed, the next Government—can convince the markets and they must look at the regulations being put on that serious action will take place to address the business. debt crisis. If we are to have any serious supply side reform, the Government must row back from their propensity to Mr. Mark Field: In relation to the horrific amount of put more and more burdens on small businesses. That is debt in the global economy, it is not clear where the debt why, in an intervention an hour or so ago, I asked the will be mopped up. For example, various sovereign Chancellor of the Exchequer about the agency workers wealth funds in the middle east and the Chinese directive, which will be a job-destroying directive. Agency Government have traditionally been able to take up workers themselves do not want it and small businesses such debt—but it is estimated that some third to a half do not want it, as it is going to add a great deal of cost of the £9.1 trillion will not be taken up by such areas. In to small businesses, while those very agency workers other words, a major problem is likely to arise in the that the directive sets out to protect want their independence bond markets before the world is too much older. and flexibility. They do not want a directive. Having said over many months that they would resist that Mr. Bellingham: My hon. Friend is much more in directive and do all they possibly could to stop it going touch with these issues than I am, but I certainly share through, the Government are now going to legislate to his concerns. The position here is looking grimmer than bring in protection for agency workers to give them the elsewhere because of the state of our economy. Indeed, same rights as normal workers. I think that is very bad apart from Greece, we are the only country in the EU news indeed. that ran a consistent budget deficit rather than a surplus during those boom years, which means that we are Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD) rose— singly ill equipped to deal with this financial crisis and recession. That is, of course, an appalling scar on the Mr. Bellingham: I will not give way, because I will not Government’s record. be allowed any more injury time. [Interruption.] I will As my hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr. Osborne) be allowed it, so I will give way. pointed out earlier, the UK’s growth between July and Lorely Burt: I am grateful. On the agency workers September was minus 0.3 per cent. For six consecutive directive, I completely understand what the hon. Gentleman quarters we have been in recession—the longest since is saying about workers such as professional contractors. records began. That figure for the quarter compares However, there is an underclass of people who are being with America’s 0.9 per cent. growth and the eurozone’s exploited, and I believe that we do need to legislate, in 0.4 per cent. growth. That shows how we are in a very the interests of all those people. parlous position. As the Government rebuild public finances, it is Mr. Bellingham: The hon. Lady makes a perfectly going to be very important to impress on the markets reasonable point, but I simply say to her that we are our determination to do so, but I feel very strongly that facing a truly horrendous situation. When the economy 743 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 744 starts to grow again and unemployment comes right holidays, redundancy pay and all the things we quaintly down, it might well be sensible to work with SMEs, associated with civilisation during the 20th century. business and business organisations on bringing in some Often such people work alongside others who do have form of protection for the agency workers that she such rights. I hope that the agency workers Bill will do mentions. She has accepted, however, that the vast something to put a stop to that ominous trend. majority of agency workers, particularly contractors to At the heart of the Opposition case on the economy the IT industry and to the food industry—a big sector is a dishonesty, which pretends that the public debt has in my constituency—do not want the directive because nothing to do with the bankers’ crisis and their friends it will reduce their flexibility. in the City—the derivatives traders, hedge funds and What else do the Government give us? They give us the rest—and that it is all due to the profligacy of the the Equality Bill. All Conservative Members are in Labour Government. The right hon. and learned Member favour of gender equality, but do we need such a for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke) was engaging in that again thoroughly bureaucratic, over-prescriptive approach, which last night at an event at the Institute of Directors, which is bound to put pressure on small and medium-sized I attended. In his very entertaining 20-minute speech, in enterprises, especially those in my constituency that rely which he had a great deal to say about public debt, I did on public sector procurement? They will have to show not hear him once concede that any of this—at one three years of accounts, and fill in a 42-page form and point he made a comparison to Mugabe’s economic questionnaire. Lots of businesses will ask whether it is management, and I realise that he was probably pulling really worth the candle. In my judgment, that will our leg a bit—has anything to do with the activities of destroy enterprise and wealth creation. Now is not the the banking sector. It does. I think that the Opposition’s right time to introduce such a measure. case would be that much stronger if they stopped referring On the supply side of the economy, we will get more to “Labour’s debt” and “the mess that Labour has got and more regulation from the Government and no us into”—I think I am quoting from a Conservative attention paid to the crying need to reduce business party crib sheet, because I have heard those phrases taxes. The Minister for Business, Innovation and Skills used repeatedly since this year’s Conservative party may put my mind at rest in his winding-up speech, but conference—and honestly faced the fact that much of as far as I am aware the Government are not planning this has to do with the activities of their friends in any action on business rates. The Opposition, on the the City. other hand, propose action on business rates, a cut to I do not know whether you saw it, Madam Deputy corporation tax and a bonfire of regulations. My right Speaker, but at the end of September and the beginning hon. and learned Friend the Member for Rushcliffe of October there was a three-party series on BBC2 (Mr. Clarke) has made it absolutely clear that we will entitled “The Love of Money”. have a one-in, one-out policy. That cannot come a moment too soon, because businesses are crying out Mr. Kenneth Clarke (Rushcliffe) (Con): I am glad that for it. the hon. Gentleman was paying such close attention to The Government keep saying that they rely on the my speech last night. I entirely accept that the hubris of wealth creators in this country. The wealth creators will our bankers, along with the complete failure of the get us out of this recession. I entirely accept that there is regulatory system that our Prime Minister had put in an argument to be had about the timing of reductions place, was the greatest cause of the deep recession that in public expenditure and increases in taxation, because we went into. Last night I was dealing with why our the last thing we want to do is stifle any stuttering economy is the slowest in coming out of it, and debt growth in the economy that might occur in the next plays a very big part in that. We can agree in criticising quarter. The Government say that they will rely on the bankers, but the hon. Gentleman cannot wave aside—as private sector to create jobs and growth, but they must the Government are trying to—the problem of debt, ensure that it is given the right encouragement. I have which is slowing us down in our recovery. no confidence that the Government are capable of that. Their record does not stack up well, and business is fast Mr. Mullin: I do not seek to wave aside the problem losing confidence in the Government. of debt. I am glad that the right hon. and learned We can guarantee such firms their future, and guarantee Gentleman has at last conceded—perhaps he will do so that enterprise revolution, only through a complete again when he winds up the debate for the Opposition—that change in policy, and for that a change of Government this crisis, or “Labour’s debt” and “the mess that Labour is needed. The measures in the Queen’s Speech do not has got us into”, as I keep hearing Opposition spokesmen stack up, and do little for business. When the business call it, has something to do with the bankers. I am community starts to look at the detail, it will be depressed grateful to him for putting that on record, albeit with and appalled by the Government’s total lack of one or two caveats. understanding of its needs. Let me return to the BBC2 documentary. It was about the banking crisis and the global financial crisis, 3.3 pm and how they had arisen. Episode 3 consisted of interviews with the American Treasury Secretary, Hank Paulson, Mr. Chris Mullin (Sunderland, South) (Lab): I start with American and European bankers, and with the more or less where the hon. Member for North-West French Finance Minister. They all said, more or less as Norfolk (Mr. Bellingham) left off, with the agency one, that the British intervention in nationalising the workers Bill, which I welcome. An insidious development three banks in the autumn of 2008 had been decisive in —the growth of outsourcing—has taken place in the halting the slide towards the breakdown of the global past 20 years or so, and with it has grown an underclass financial system. One of them went so far as to say that of people who no longer qualify for sickness pay, paid the global financial system had come within hours of 745 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 746

[Mr. Mullin] many of the same things that the hon. Member for North-West Norfolk was just requesting: less Government meltdown, and that if the British had not acted when interference, less red tape, less this and less that, and they did, it might indeed have melted down. As we smaller Government. I thought to myself, “Goodness, know, the Americans had their plan, but it was bogged it’s lucky there was some Government interference around down in Congress after they had spent 14 days talking last autumn, when the banks went belly-up. I didn’t about it. Incidentally, it is not only the people interviewed hear any talk about the need for smaller Government on that programme who have expressed that view. I have then, when the world economy faced potential ruin.” heard the Prime Ministers of Spain and Norway say Over the years, all the main political parties have something similar, and also the Australian Prime Minister. indulged to some extent in the pretence that we in this As I watched the programme, I asked myself “Why is country can have a European level of public services this a secret? How come no one in this country knows while paying only American levels of taxation. We are about it? How come only foreigners seem to know all guilty of having encouraged that belief. As a result, about it?” I concluded that that was, in part, a tribute to when there is an argument about cuts versus tax increases, our free press, who, as we know, have been preoccupied it is assumed across the board that only cuts will do. with other matters. On each of the occasions when our Indeed, there was a period a few months ago when the Prime Minister has gone to Washington in the last year, leaders of all three main parties appeared to be vying the press have decided from the outset—before he has with each other on cuts. The leader of the Liberal left British soil—that his trip will be a disaster. On the Democrats was, I was shocked to hear, calling for bold first of his two trips, they pursued him with a single and savage cuts at his conference, which cannot have question: “Prime Minister, will you apologise for the gone down too well with his punters. The leader of the recession?” They kept that up. I believe that Mr. Nick Liberal Democrats is a wide boy and a chancer as far as Robinson even took it into the Oval Office of the White I am concerned, and if he thinks that is going to get his House. The Americans were amazed. party any votes, he is wrong. If people want bold and During the second trip, which took place only a few savage cuts, they will vote for the Conservatives, not the weeks ago, the headline was “Obama Snubs Brown”. Liberal Democrats. As Members may recall, the President and the Prime I think that we do need to contemplate the possibility Minister were going to New York to attend a United that, sooner or later, the basic rate of income tax will Nations meeting. There was not to be a face-to-face have to rise—I am not talking about taxing the rich, meeting between them there; but the next day they were because that is often a cop-out as it does not raise the off to the G20 summit in Philadelphia, where there was necessary sums. The basic rate of income tax has come plenty of face time, and the story swiftly faded. Nevertheless, down consistently over the years. It was 25p in the it had dominated the headlines, even in the broadsheet pound as recently as 1995, but successive Chancellors newspapers. If Members wonder why we in this country have reduced it so it now stands at 20p. Sooner or later, know nothing about the British Government’s intervention a political party in this country will have to confront the in the banking crisis, it may have something to do with electorate with the reality that if we want European those distractions. levels of public services, we will have to pay European levels of taxation. That cannot just be paid for by the Stewart Hosie: Let me summarise what the hon. rich; the prosperous—or the relatively prosperous—will Gentleman has said: the United Kingdom Government have to contribute as well. There may well need to be a have no responsibility whatsoever for any of the failures, rise in the basic rate of income tax, therefore. the Prime Minister saved the world, and the 943,000 Finally, I want to say a few words about “broken youngsters who are on the dole should say thank you to Britain”. We have heard quite a lot on that subject from Labour for fixing the problem. I just wanted to get those on the Conservative Benches. Those of us who it right. represent less prosperous areas of the country know a thing or two about broken Britain. When I was first Mr. Mullin: As so often, the hon. Gentleman does elected to Parliament in 1987, at every single surgery not get it right. I am not arguing that. I am just saying that I held people from the poorer parts of my constituency that the British Government did quite a lot in bringing came to me begging to be evacuated from various this most recent—and particularly large—crisis to a notorious estates. All that has stopped over the last five halt, not just in this country, but around the world. to 10 years. There were parts of my constituency where Many distinguished foreigners appear to have noticed normal life had broken down to such an extent that we that, even if the hon. Gentleman and we in this country had to evacuate the few remaining residents and demolish have not. I was pleased to hear the Liberal Democrat entire streets—indeed, in one case, a large part of an spokesman, the hon. Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable), entire estate. I fear that there is a danger that we might acknowledge that today, as he has done on several return to that situation. That is broken Britain. previous occasions. That is why he is taken more seriously Sandhill View school in my constituency is a secondary than the hon. Member for Tatton (Mr. Osborne), who school. Twelve years ago it was achieving a GCSE result speaks for the official Opposition on these matters. rate on the five A to C grade measure of less than 10 per Let me mention something else I thought while watching cent. Today, that rate is more than 50 per cent. The that programme. I also thought it at the Institute of school has been completely rebuilt, it is under completely Directors dinner last night, at which I had a ringside new management and more than 50 per cent. of the seat. IOD director general Miles Templeman was pupils are getting those results, despite the catchment demanding less Government interference, of course, area being the same. So when somebody tells me that and as he was playing on home ground that was greatly nothing has changed and everything is bad and getting welcomed by his audience. In fact, he was asking for worse, I can put my hand on my heart and honestly say 747 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 748 that the poorer people in my constituency—I would be are to be extended? The Chancellor has said “no”, but surprised if this were confined only to my constituency—are he is not serving the interests of businesses by making significantly better off as a result of this Government. them wait until the pre-Budget report. Despite the I dread that in future we may go back to where we endless announcements about help for business, some were in the late ’80s, when there was mass unemployment, Government actions are holding business back. Businesses and a breakdown in the social fabric and in law and face an overnight increase in business rates of up to order. Some future Government would then have to 12.5 per cent. from April. That is a significant cost, clear up the mess, as this Government are still doing to especially for small businesses. Empty property rate some extent. I hope that we will not go down that path relief is due to be withdrawn on the same date, encouraging again. I am told that a new, merciful and compassionate unnecessary demolitions and destroying the capacity of Conservative party has arisen from the ashes of the the economy to grow in the future. greedy and mean Conservative party—I accept that We have long said that fundamental reform of business there have been some changes at the top, but I do not rates is required to make them more equitable. Let us believe that down below that is the case. I think that the take the timing of the VAT increase as an example. party has the same philosophy and wants one thing Despite modest, well-argued representations from business, only: tax cuts for the already prosperous. the Government refuse to change the timing of the VAT increase from midnight on 31 December. The Federation of Small Businesses has called for it to be deferred to 3.15 pm 1 February to avoid the peak January sales—a sensible Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): On the face of it, there measure, but one that the Government are ignoring. does not appear to be a great deal for business in this What a happy new year message that will be to retailers. Queen’s Speech, so I wish to focus on business. Legislation Another example is an increase in the burden of tax. is not always needed in order to make changes, as the The small companies tax rate is due to increase from hon. Member for Mid-Worcestershire (Peter Luff) said. 21 to 22 per cent. In last year’s pre-Budget report, even I trust that that proves so and that having introduced a the Government realised the counter-productive effect plethora of measures, some of which have worked and of that change and deferred it from last April to next some of which spectacularly have not, the Government April. I hope that they will reconsider this ill-timed are not resting on their laurels, thinking that we are additional burden on small companies and that the through the worst and that everything will be all right. Minister will comment on that. If the measures that they have announced had been I want to see a new sense of urgency in the Government, properly implemented, business would not be suffering with fewer announcements and more action. The sense in the same way as it is now. of urgency among businesses is palpable as they struggle Recent talk about recovery is encouraging, but we to stay afloat. I do not want to be unfair—some of the must be realistic and recognise that businesses are still Government schemes have worked, although some have suffering and our gross domestic product is still falling, not. One that has worked relatively well is the enterprise with the third quarter figure showing the decline slowing finance guarantee scheme. Will the Minister confirm to 0.3 per cent. The hon. Member for North-West what will happen to that scheme? Norfolk (Mr. Bellingham) cited a figure of 0.4 per cent. One scheme that has not worked is the automotive but I believe a revision was made yesterday—either way, assistance scheme. Guarantees of only £400 million the situation is bad and GDP is still declining. The level have been promised, compared with £2.3 billion of of bank lending to businesses continues to decline, with ostensibly available guarantees. For six months of this third quarter lending decreasing by £23.2 billion. The year, no money was forthcoming but 10,000 jobs in the level of unemployment is still increasing, with the figure automotive industry were lost. Jaguar Land Rover, in now at more than 2.5 million. Manufacturing investment my constituency, finally decided after months of being has decreased by more than a quarter and construction messed around by officials that the game was not worth investment has decreased by almost a third. the candle and got financial help elsewhere. Will this Despite all that, an array of business support is due scheme be quietly forgotten now? Will the Minister to end before the recovery has been secured: the trade respond on that point, please? credit insurance top-up scheme ends on 31 December The trade credit insurance scheme was most welcome 2009, just when it might have become useful as the when it was announced, but it has been an absolute credit insurance market stabilises; the vehicle scrappage disaster. Although the Government said that they expected scheme ends in February 2010—or earlier if the a £3 billion take-up by October, only £13 million has Government funding is used up; the enterprise finance been allocated. The conditions have been far too restrictive. guarantee scheme ends on 31 March 2010; an extension Will the Government consider relaxing the criteria so on empty property rate relief ends on 1 April 2010; and that struggling companies can benefit or will they quietly first-year capital allowances of 40 per cent. end in April forget that scheme, too? 2010, when we understand they will return to 20 per cent. Mr. Nigel Dodds (Belfast, North) (DUP): I agree Although we have heard various noises from the entirely with what the hon. Lady is saying about the Government about extending these schemes, no clarity various Government schemes and the need to consider has been provided. They have left it late before explaining which work and which do not. Does she agree that as their plans, which has left businesses with little time to well as Government schemes, the banks and the financial prepare. The worst thing that we can do to businesses is lending institutions need to be doing a lot more? Although leave them in a state of uncertainty. How can they make Government help is very welcome, more pressure needs provisions when they have no idea of what is coming? to be put on the banks to do more for businesses, Can the Minister tell business today which of the schemes because that is what businesses are crying out for. 749 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 750

Lorely Burt: I absolutely agree. My hon. Friend the represent only 1 or 2 per cent. of the total number of Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable) made that point sector employees? It is true that they were not overseen quite strongly, so I have not concentrated on the banks, properly, but surely we need a way forward that recognises but the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. that the vast majority of bankers were highly responsible. Let me finish by looking towards the longer term. I do not want to focus merely on the difficulties and Mr. Meacher: The hon. Gentleman makes my case challenges that we face. This country has a legacy of for me. It is of course true that the problems were innovation and enterprise that should give us confidence precipitated by only a small proportion of total banking for the future. It is now time for the Government to get staff, and that many of them, as he says, were involved ahead of the game and to begin to support enterprise in in proprietary trading. However, the financial sector is the longer term by creating an environment in which incredibly important to the whole economy, and the small and large businesses can flourish side by side. I fact that it cannot be—and was not—managed properly welcome some of the moves to generate wealth through by directors in the boardroom is something that desperately the knowledge and skills of our young people, such as needs to be addressed. I do not think that the measures the creation of a cluster of university enterprise networks in the Financial Services Bill—or, as I am about to to harness the value of the academic knowledge that is make clear, any of the reforms that have been suggested taught in our universities to drive future entrepreneurship so far—are adequate in that regard. and long-term economic growth. The Government’s policy on the banks seems to The upturn will bring some risks. In the downturns of consist of only three elements. The first is to limit 1980 and 1990, insolvencies rose significantly after the bonuses, although I think that I am right in saying that technical end of the recessions as businesses rebuilt the FSA already has the authority to intervene in that their working capital on returning to growth. Will the area. The second element is to increase regulation but—and Government make sure that they take adequate steps to I say this with great respect—we will judge the effectiveness prevent the destruction of jobs and livelihoods this time of that approach when we see it. The third element is to round? introduce some increase in capital ratios. I think that We all know that the state of the public finances everyone agrees that that is necessary, but by exactly means that there are limits to the help that can be how much will they be increased? That is the key provided, but there are no limits to what the Government question, and the answer has not yet been specified. can do when it comes to creating a level playing field, However, the Government’s policy still leaves the City reducing interference from Government and enabling as dominant as it is now, and the rest of the real businesses to drive forward the diverse, vibrant and economy hobbled and dependent. sustainable economy that is the key to our future. If I understand it correctly, the policy of the Opposition I and my colleagues on the Liberal Democrat Benches is very little different. They are proposing living wills, will do all that we can to offer support for any step that by which the banks can wind themselves down in the is taken to help and enhance this country’s business event of a collapse, higher capital reserves—exactly like future and prosperity. the Government—and more support for long-term equity finance, although again they have not said exactly how 3.25 pm they would bring that about. I do not disagree, but it, too, is minimalist reform. I do not want to be over-partisan, Mr. Michael Meacher (Oldham, West and Royton) but given the Tory party’s dependence for major donations (Lab): I want to concentrate on the banking system, the on City institutions and on the British Bankers Association, case for major reform of which continues to be greatly whose chief executive is a former Tory MP, and given understated. I strongly agree with my hon. Friend the that both those institutions have no wish for radical Member for Sunderland, South (Mr. Mullin) that we change, we are entitled to wonder how much even those should never forget that the root of the problem is to be modest reforms are likely to see the light of day. found overwhelmingly—not entirely, but very largely—in the behaviour of the banks. The truth is that the original financial crisis flowed The Financial Services Bill unveiled in the Queen’s from several causes other than the monstrous bonuses Speech gives the FSA the power to crack down on that generated thoroughly irresponsible banking practice. bankers’ bonuses and to tear up contracts that expose Such factors include mammoth bank size—beyond the the banks—and the taxpayers standing behind them—to capability of any reasonable manager to control—a excessive risk. That will obviously be very popular, but dangerous confusion of retail and investment banking it is also absolutely justified. However, the central question roles, excessive debt leveraging prompted by over-cheap remains: is that sufficient to prevent a recurrence of the money, global proliferation of toxic derivatives, the epidemic of bankers’ greed and recklessness that so suborning of credit-rating institutions by banks and nearly brought down the entire global financial system? other bodies whose creditworthiness they were supposed One has only to ask that question to get the answer that to be assessing, and an orgy of offshore speculation and it clearly is not. tax evasion taking preference over industrial investment and the real economy. None of those fault lines is being Certainly, the Bill offers important steps that will addressed. help to curb the most obvious and visible banking excesses that rile the public most, but they fall well short All the big four remain—to use the customary phrase— of the root-and-branch reform of the whole banking too big to fail, not least RBS, which at the time of the sector that I now think is so urgently needed. collapse had an exposure level 12 times the entire UK gross domestic product. Even with EU intervention, the Mr. Bellingham: Does the right hon. Gentleman agree bank is still far too large. The only dent in that behemoth that the mistakes in the banking sector were made by a structure was brought about by the EU Competition very small number of proprietary traders, and that they Commissioner. 751 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 752

The Treasury consistently—I think wrongly—refuses so to me on a few occasions—that the Government to consider the separation of retail from investment believe that the banks are best managed in the private banking, no doubt partly because of heavy lobbying sector, but how does he reconcile that with the fact that from the City of London. The effect is that it still leaves those same private banks are the main cause of the the taxpayer as the ultimate bailer-out of last resort for financial crisis? How does he reconcile that with the grossly irresponsible banking practices, some of which view recently expressed by the Minister with responsibility are already beginning to revive. for banking, Lord Myners, that before the crash, RBS was, in his exact words, John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) “the worst managed…bank this country has ever seen”? (LD): I am following the right hon. Gentleman’s remarks How have the banks been allowed to get away with carefully and I agree with them. Is it not the case that being given gargantuan sums on the specific condition neither the Government nor the FSA have really taken that they continued lending to home owners and businesses on board the point that utility banking, with its implied at 2007 levels, when the latest M4 figures—the relevant taxpayer support, has to be separated from the other money supply figures—show that bank lending to businesses issues? Until that core point is taken on board, whether is now actually negative? In other words, banks are we go with John Kay or Paul Volcker, the system cannot clawing back more money from businesses than they be regulated properly. are lending to them. As has been said, only today we learn that banks are Mr. Meacher: I completely agree. That is the single to be allowed to impose whatever overdraft charges biggest deficiency in the reform programme. they like on their customers with impunity, so that they Fundamental reform is needed, not tinkering. No can use the money to subsidise more profitable services action is being taken in respect of the shadow banking for their richer clients. We learn that in his report on system, which is driven by the investment banks, trading bankers’ pay, Sir David Walker—a former Morgan Stanley funds, hedge funds and private equity. They are too big, grandee, and a soft touch for the City if ever there was too powerful and too risky. No action is being taken to one—resists the obvious public demand to cap bonuses. address the finance sector, which is too large for a He merely proposes disclosing the numbers, but not country the size of the UK and is still crowding out even the names, of bankers on more than £1 million—the industrial and manufacturing investment. No action is feeblest option on the table. being taken to reform the financial architecture—to We learn that Lord Myners is exasperated at the dynamise innovation and long-term productive investment City’s unwillingness to agree to change. When did the rather than simply continuing to concentrate on mortgages Government last expect that they need only wag their and consumer credit. finger at the malefactors for the predators in the temple Above all, nothing is being done to regulate closely, of Mammon to doff their caps, say sorry and promptly or in some cases even prohibit, the derivative trading mend their ways? Oh, come on! As McEnroe would say, that lies at the dark heart of finance market fundamentalism. “You cannot be serious.” When will the Government There is no action even to require that new derivatives accept that voluntary exhortation is completely inadequate? should be approved by a sanctioning authority, which, To cap it all, £62 billion of our money was handed over considering that the massive toxic market in credit to RBS and HBOS covertly a year ago. The motive was default swaps and collateralised debt obligations nearly certainly not to prevent another bank run; it was to brought down the entire global system, one would have avoid the public’s confidence in the banking system as a thought was the absolute minimum regulatory requirement. whole being shaken by revelation of the sheer scale of Little or nothing is being done about offshore speculation, its failings and corruption. There is something deeply unless of course we have a Tobin tax, which could be rotten in the City of London, and until that is clearly operated domestically through the UK CHAPS system. and fully dealt with, this country will not be free of the If that saw the light of day, it would be an important risk of a bigger, further financial collapse. and valued reform, so I hope the Government will proceed as fast as they can. 3.38 pm No action is being taken to introduce greater competition David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): It has been in the financial sector, which is still frankly too large, said today that we are in this together. Some Members even after intervention from the EU. Surely what is might not be happy with that comment, but I happen to needed if we are to have real competition is the breaking-up believe that it is true. Whether we are elected from of the over-dominant big four by, say, a dozen banks, all England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland, the with particular specialisms. Those specialisms might general public have sent us here to do a job for them. include infrastructure—that, of course, is what the CBI Those who have listened to the programme set out wants—and should certainly include science and technology today will be interested only in hearing what the House research and development, investment in small and will do for the United Kingdom, for business, or for the medium-sized businesses, and other institution building people in business. in the real economy. Having said all that, we are, of course, enduring a Quite simply, the banks are out of control. It is not financial and economic storm. The economy must therefore the state that has taken over the banks, but the banks be kept centre stage. For that reason, I welcome the that have taken over the state. The taxpayer has bailed opening words of Her Majesty’s Queen Speech: out the Royal Bank of Scotland to the value of 84 per “my Government’s overriding priority is to ensure sustained cent. of its equity, yet the Government have no involvement growth to deliver a fair and prosperous economy for families and in the running of the company, even as regards the businesses as the British economy recovers from the global economic insistence that there should be an increase in lending to downturn.” business. The Chancellor keeps intoning—he has done A sound and secure business foundation is vital to that. 753 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 754

[David Simpson] some of them played fast and loose in the past, that does not mean that they should now sit on their hands We might be seeing the first, fragile signs of a recovery, and fail to support genuine businesses. but it is early days, and the extent of the recovery is a I say this to the Government: despite what the banks matter of debate, with almost as many theories as there are saying publicly and perhaps privately to the are so-called experts. However, we need to assess the Government, things are not happening on the ground. damage that has been done to our finances and economy Businesses are being strangled because of the attitudes and determine where we go from there. Although we of the banks. A small, family business in my constituency wish to see growth, we must guard against artificial, that employs 50 people contacted me in February this unsustainable growth. The Republic of Ireland illustrates year to see whether I could get it some breathing space the point. Aided by European funding, its economy with the banks. I rang the bank, and someone said, surged ahead as the Celtic tiger, but that growth was “Well, there’re two sides to every story.” However, we largely false, and we now see the affects of the recession managed to get the company some breathing space. It is in the Irish Republic; it is almost bankrupt. still going strong and has just employed another 10 Growth must be sustainable and built on solid people, but if the bank had its way in February, the foundations. We must grow a dynamic and innovative company would have gone. That is one story, but many economy that ensures a well qualified and properly in the House could tell stories like it. What the banks qualified work force. We should do everything possible are doing to businesses is unacceptable. to reduce the burdens on business and move away from We must remove bureaucracy and red tape, and anything a culture of bureaucracy and red tape, which stifles that will hinder the small business. I remember speaking business and, especially, the small-business economy. to Michael Gallagher of the US State Department Rather than stifling the incentives to engage in research about business. I referred to the large companies that and development, to concentrate on exports and to be they have in the United States and he stopped me and innovative, flexible and inventive, we must encourage said, “Look, David, it’s like this: our backbone—the such activity. backbone of the United States—is the small to middle-sized My party leader and First Minister of Northern indigenous businesses, which have existed for many, Ireland recently said that many years.”It is exactly the same in the United Kingdom. “the real drivers behind the economy are not the politicians nor The small, indigenous businesses are the backbone of civil servants but those entrepreneurs who are prepared to take a this great United Kingdom that we cherish, and we risk and start a business. It is their drive and innovation that will need to support them. make the difference. We in government need only give them the chance and then let them get on with it as unhindered as possible.” Large companies come in, and quite rightly so, and Her Majesty also referred to create large employment opportunities. They get millions “active employment and training programmes.” of pounds in Government assistance. When they come to this country, as we have seen in Northern Ireland, High unemployment will be the lasting scar of this they may last 10 or 15 years, but all of a sudden they recession, and we are told that unemployment numbers leave for some other country where the labour force and could reach as high as 3.3 million by the end of 2010. costs are a lot cheaper. Therefore, training programmes must be geared towards robustly tackling the issue. Schools and universities Dr. McCrea: Does my hon. Friend accept that as the must play their part by giving realistic career advice to general public, through the Government, are major pupils at an early stage of their education. We churn out stakeholders in some of the banks at the moment, it is too many graduates with no useful purpose in the about time the Government called the tune? Does he workplace. That leaves too many young people unemployed also agree that many businesses are being strangled and and almost unemployable, but we must not forget our crippled not only by the fact that they are not getting existing work force. Companies must ensure that they the loans necessary at a critical time to maintain a level develop corporate and individual skills, and they must of employment and strengthen their business, but because think strategically and invest much more in research of unacceptable interest rates? and development. We can attract high value-added jobs to the UK if we show that our people have the necessary David Simpson: I agree with my hon. Friend. The way skills and competences. the banks are dealing with companies is unacceptable. I shall turn to another area of concern, the financial If companies do not manage to clear an overdraft by a sector and the need for reform. Owing to the fact that certain date, the banks are imposing horrendous fines the financial sector is a crucial cornerstone of a free on them. If a company cannot deal with its overdraft at economy, the Government bailed out the banks at a certain time, it could face paying thousands of pounds taxpayers’ expense, but, as taxpayers now have a stake in fees and penalty clauses. That is unacceptable. in the banks, it beggars belief that some elements of the We want to see the Government making every effort sector have resorted to type and begun lining their own they can to deal with the banks. I do not know what pockets again. They seem to have forgotten that they control they have over the banks, but they need to use owe a debt to the public, whose taxes helped bail them every endeavour to ensure that small companies, whether out of trouble. We understand that banks need to be small retailers or small manufacturers, are helped. That prudent on lending, but too often they seem reluctant needs to happen. to help sound businesses that, in many cases, have been banking with them for generations. 3.49 pm I know from constituents that some banks, far from Mrs. Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab): Before I get into offering support, actually make life harder. That is my own remarks, I should like to pick up on one or two outrageous. The banks owe us all a debt—not a toxic comments made by previous contributors, particularly debt but a genuine debt—of gratitude. Just because my hon. Friend the Member for Sunderland, South 755 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 756

(Mr. Mullin). He spoke about the international global of a century. HBOS had slashed his overdraft facility situation and the fact that there is an attempt to caricature and increased the charges levied on it. Eight months on, this financial crisis as Labour’s crisis or mess, or whatever matters have not improved. Without that overdraft word from whatever crib sheet Opposition Members facility, he cannot pay his staff through to the beginning happen to be using. It is unfortunate that that caricature of next year. is being used on such a serious issue, because the reality I mentioned another constituent who had an import- is that the financial decision that had to be made last export business that had held strong for 30 years. To the year was probably the biggest that ever had to be made credit of the Royal Bank of Scotland, it phoned me the in international global finance. It was this Prime Minister next day and asked for details, but it should not have and Chancellor who made that decision and called it taken an MP raising the issue in the House of Commons right. It does no one any great credit to try to undermine for RBS or any other bank to intervene in that way. that. However, in that case, sadly, it was too late because the The hon. Member for North-West Norfolk bank had already withdrawn the facilities. (Mr. Bellingham) made great play of the claim that this I do not want to encourage frivolous lending—we do is the deepest recession since records began and that not want to get back to that situation—and I certainly somehow all the ills that we face today are the fault of do not want to second-guess the commercial decisions this Government. However, there is an inherent that have to be made. As I am sure the hon. Member for contradiction in his argument. If this is the deepest Upper Bann will accept, there are often two sides to the recession since records began, we need to challenge the story. However, finance needs to be rigorous, not flexible. hon. Gentleman and his colleagues in the Conservative The Government have put in place a programme of party to tell us why we do not have the levels of supportive and positive measures, which I welcome, but unemployment that we had during the lesser recessions more pressure needs to be brought to bear on the banks, that they managed; why we do not have the levels of particularly those in which we own a controlling stake, interest rates that we had in those previous recessions; to help small businesses by reducing lending charges. and why we still have more people in employment today than in those recessions. There are a lot of myths We should not underestimate how much importance floating around the Chamber. people put on the fact that they now have a stake in these banks. The other night, on my way home, when I There is also a lot of agreement about some aspects paid the taxi driver I handed over a Scottish £20 note. of the situation. Back in March, when I last had the Members who have ever tried to do that in London will opportunity to speak about the economy, I raised the know that it is sometimes quite difficult. issue of the importance of small and medium enterprises, much as the hon. Member for Upper Bann (David David Simpson indicated assent. Simpson) has just done—and I apologise for not paying the usual courtesy in recognising that I follow him. In my earlier speech, I examined how the downturn was Dr. William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP) indicated affecting SMEs in my constituency and across the country. assent. At the time, those SMEs were running out of credit. That was their major and basic problem. As we all Mrs. McGuire: In the case of the Bank of Ireland know, SMEs have little room to manoeuvre when the Northern Ireland it might be even more difficult. The going gets tough. Some of them faced then—and still taxi driver took my £20 and said, “I own part of this do—serious cash flow difficulties, and credit is the bank.” We should remember that people are making a oxygen on which those firms survive. correlation between their stake in these banks as a taxpayer and what they expect back from the banks. Eight months later, how are we doing? I have to tell Ministers that it is still a very mixed picture. The Scottish Is there is scope to consider some of these issues in Federation of Small Businesses recently gave evidence the Financial Services Bill? I feel very strongly that we to the Scottish Affairs Committee about the state of need to make it easier for customers to seek redress if SMEs in Scotland. Some 30 per cent. of businesses they believe that their bank has not treated them fairly. I consistently report an increase in the cost of existing have a constituent whose bank did not want to meet credit, 22 per cent. reported increased fees for new loans him, although he had been a customer for 40 years. and overdrafts, and more than 30 per cent. have said Again, it took my intervention, not only to get the that their banks have been less than helpful. Anecdotal meeting but to allow it to facilitate a situation that evidence suggests that it is now a little easier to get allowed him to continue in business. I can see that some funding, but the fees charged are increasing dramatically. colleagues recognise that scenario. Of most concern are the reports from small businesses Of course, I have welcomed the wide range of measures that banks are finding new ways to charge. Entrepreneurial that have been implemented to help companies. skills are being brought into the banks again and firms are facing increased fees simply for maintaining existing Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con): I am listening to the overdrafts. Larger arrangement fees are being charged, right hon. Lady carefully. I am sure that her sentiments and maintenance fees are even being charged for unused and experiences as regards businesses that contact us overdrafts—so firms are being charged for not borrowing. are shared by everyone in the Chamber. Given that her Nor is there any room for negotiation. Government put together the package to deal with the I have been following the progress of some firms in banks, what does she think they got wrong that leads to Stirling that have contacted me about the difficulties these situations where the money is not coming through? that they have experienced. In March I mentioned the case of a constituent who runs a small commercial Mrs. McGuire: I do not think that the Government property business. He had banked with the Bank of got it wrong. It is an easy hit to say that it is a Scotland in its various manifestations for nearly quarter Government problem. The banks are part of the partnership 757 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 758

[Mrs. McGuire] prospects just as much as financial deprivation, if not more in some cases. In an ideal world, parents give with Government. It is not my right hon. Friend the priority to the welfare and development of their children. Minister who is sitting in the bank manager’s office They give them a sense of security, love them demonstrably saying, “Sorry, you can’t have the loan.” We have put in and share family meals and conversation. They take a place the programmes and we need to ensure that they close interest in their children’s education, read and are being delivered through the banking system. There listen to them and provide interesting experiences. They is a whole range of measures, including the Scottish encourage hobbies, sport, clubs and playing musical business gateway, the enterprise finance guarantee scheme, instruments, and importantly, they set standards and the VAT reduction, and tax payment deferrals. I have values by example. lost count of the businesses that have complimented the Sadly, a minority of parents fail their children in that Government on how HMRC is relating to them. respect. It might be the result of drink or drug habits, In some instances, local businesses in Scotland—I am but sometimes it is simply because of the absence of not making a criticism of any particular aspect of instinctive parenting skills. An unhappy childhood can Government—are finding it difficult to access information. sometimes lead to neglectful parenting. A bad experience I ask Ministers to ensure that there is maximum at school can mean that parents may not know how to co-operation between Westminster, through the Secretary help their own children with their homework, or even be of State, and the First Minister and the Finance Secretary motivated to ensure that they attend school regularly. in the Scottish Government to ensure that businesses Such parents are also least likely to become involved in are getting the information they need, when they need it. school activities, join the parent teacher association or Another issue that was raised by the Scottish FSB is help at the fête and thereby make an important link the consolidation of banking between the two great big between school and home. Their children are least likely monoliths. It said that about 78 per cent. of business in to belong to a scout or guide troop, the Boys’ Brigade or Scotland is being conducted through those monoliths. I Girls’ Brigade, an armed forces cadet corps, sports welcomed the Chancellor’s statement earlier this month teams, choirs, drama groups, youth clubs or a church. calling for more competition in the marketplace; that Those children experience child poverty of a special will make a significant difference. kind, because they miss the sense of belonging that Finally, I welcome the decisive action taken by my flows from such life-enriching activities. They miss out right hon. Friends the Chancellor and the Prime Minister, on belonging to a team, being reliable and being able to who have guided us through unprecedented global financial rely on others, acquiring social and interpersonal skills, crisis. They took difficult decisions when they needed to and trying their best and being appreciated for it. They be taken, and they remained calm in the face of a do not learn to win and lose with good grace, which is financial tsunami, unlike some other political parties, an important life skill. Many of those learning activities which did not know from one day to the next what their are well disguised as having fun, but they are learned position was. However, I hope that my colleagues recognise nevertheless. that there is still more to be done. The SME sector did Each of our lives could be viewed as a Venn diagram, not get us into this financial crisis, but it will be crucial with the overlapping circles representing all the “belonging” to getting us out of it. components. Most of us would belong in any number 4pm of shared spaces—family, personal friends, acquaintances, Angela Watkinson (Upminster) (Con): It is a pleasure work colleagues, clubs and hobbies, the place where we to follow the right hon. Member for Stirling live, our religion—and our sense of belonging and (Mrs. McGuire), who was particularly helpful to me purpose come from those shared values and experiences. with a constituency case when she was a Work and The absence of them creates a void readily filled by Pensions Minister. membership of a street gang of similarly impoverished I wish to focus my contribution on child poverty. A young people and all the associated dangers that that Child Poverty Bill was, of course, announced in the can bring. We have seen many tragic consequences of Gracious Speech, but the subject also impinges to an so-called feral youths who, feeling that they do not extent on the Bill on improving schools and safeguarding belong anywhere or that nobody is particularly interested children. Child poverty has risen for the third year in a in them, develop misplaced loyalty to a charismatic or row, and there are now 4 million children living in manipulative gang leader with values wholly unacceptable poverty, a rise of 100,000 since last year. to the rest of the community, such as carrying knives and just being at odds with the rest of their world. The Child Poverty Bill defines child poverty in four ways and sets out worthy targets. There is a target of I pay particular tribute to the invaluable work done 10 per cent. of children living in relative low-income by Barnardo’s in identifying the minority of children poverty by 2020, which means households with less and young people at risk of becoming involved in than 60 per cent. of the median income. There is another criminal and antisocial behaviour. Barnardo’s supports target of 5 per cent. of children living in combined these children and their families, addressing their individual material deprivation and low-income poverty, which concerns and sticking with them to break the cycle— means households with less than 70 per cent. of the benefiting them, their communities and society as a median income. There is persistent poverty, defined as whole. children living in relative poverty for three out of four The child poverty resulting from inadequate parenting years, and finally absolute low income. is demonstrated in children’s lack of self-esteem and Those measures all relate to a family’s financial confidence, under-achievement at school and lack of circumstances, and I believe that there is a fifth category aspiration and ambition for a more fulfilling and productive of child poverty, which is cultural and emotional poverty. life. It is not necessarily the exclusive province of families That can hamper a child’s education and future employment in financial poverty. Well-off parents sometimes use 759 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 760 over-generous pocket money and a lack of supervision About three hours ago, I listened to the opening as an easy way out. Such indulgence and lack of behavioural speeches from both Front Benches. At that time, I boundaries can also lead to the same cultural and intended to say something, if I caught your eye, Madam emotional poverty and the feeling that nobody really Deputy Speaker, about a constituency issue that relates cares what they do or where they go. to flooding and the resources required for that. I still These children belong—I use the term deliberately, hope to talk about that and some labour market issues. because we do not want them to separate themselves However, having been provoked approximately three from the rest of society—to the next generation of hours ago, I would not do myself justice if I did not adults, and they should be prepared with the social and allow myself the opportunity to respond a little to the practical skills to enable them to take their place in the provocation. adult world, to find gainful employment and to be a Opposition parties must oppose, but when countries part of the future of our country. It is up to us to are in crisis, as we clearly were less than 15 months ago, prevent them from slipping through the net. political parties have a responsibility to look after the The Children’s Society goes further and asks for a nation’s interest first and other considerations, whether clear legal definition of parental responsibility, not just party or even constituency considerations, second. There in education, but in safeguarding and promoting the is much evidence in British history of that happening. I child’s health, development and welfare. I have not will not try to identify examples; I think we all know mentioned that to any barristers I know, but I imagine them. When I first became a Member of Parliament that it would be difficult to define such things in law more than 20 years ago, there were many occasions on because they are subjective and even more difficult to which issues were considered to be in the national enforce. However, the principle is a good one, and if it interest and colleagues took stances based on that. could be considered, and a way found, without intruding The Conservative party did itself a disservice in October on the privacy of the vast majority of families who last year by not recognising a national crisis that needed manage their affairs perfectly well, we ought to think a national response and a national solution. The whole about it. world said—broadly speaking; I use shorthand—that The importance of parental responsibility cannot be the proposals of the Prime Minister of Britain to the overestimated, and for children not benefiting from international economic forums and the actions that good parenting, we must find ways of making as many those forums and the main countries associated with opportunities as possible available to them. For example, them, including European Union countries, Japan, China, public libraries are an amazing source of entertainment India, the United States, took constituted the right and information. A good book can transport a child policy position. If the Conservatives had accepted that into another world, enchant, horrify, amuse or broaden at the time, they would not now be in a position the horizons of the mind. Our libraries are free of whereby, having opposed what seemed eminently sensible charge—no child living in poverty need be deprived of to the rest of the world, they are picking at the aftermath the wonder of books or the opportunity to develop to try to find differences with the Government. I essentially knowledge, vocabulary and spelling through the enjoyment accuse the Conservative party of a political response to of reading. an economic crisis. The Conservative party is now in the I know that our schools already have huge expectations position of arguing that, because of x, y and z, it would placed on them, but perhaps librarians could be invited be capable, should it be in government, of paying back into schools to promote book borrowing, reading clubs more debt more quickly than the Government, should and other library activities among families where books they be re-elected. That is economic nonsense. are not important. Even the simple possession of a As the hon. Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable) library ticket can give a child a sense of belonging—of said, growth rates in this country tend, broadly speaking, being part of something. Similarly, leaders of young to be secular. I do not believe that Governments can do people’s uniformed organisations might also be invited a lot to improve a country’s growth rate—perhaps a in to talk about their activities, or even to start a group little bit here and there. However, they can do a lot of on school premises to attract children previously excluded. damage in undermining the secular growth rate at a Police community support officers, youth offending particular point. Again, there is much evidence that teams and youth outreach workers could also play a Conservative party policy—I do not blame current part in getting excluded children involved. Conservative Members—did that in the early 1980s. We The Bill on improving schools and safeguarding children know the consequences for many communities throughout contains some promising elements, including on clarifying our country. That was repeated in the 1990s, albeit not parents’ responsibilities in their children’s education. with the same devastating consequences. However, they All community groups have so much to offer to children were still pretty devastating. in overcoming cultural and emotional poverty. Our The danger is, were a Conservative Government elected, challenge is to make those connections. If we do not, and they carried out the commitment made in opposition however much progress is made towards meeting the for political reasons as the economic policy of the four targets in the Child Poverty Bill, the fifth category country, it would at the very least damage our ability to of child poverty that I mentioned will remain. The bills recover from the current position. It would arguably of social failure, to which my hon. Friend the shadow cause further deep and serious damage. I urge the Chancellor referred in his introductory speech, will be Conservative party to try to think a little more in the high indeed. national interest. 4.9 pm Having got that off my chest to some extent, I greatly Mr. Doug Henderson (Newcastle upon Tyne, North) welcome the Bill to control flooding. We do not have (Lab): I refer hon. Members to my entry in the Register time to go into it in detail—there may be another of Members’ Financial Interests. opportunity for that, should it get a Second Reading. 761 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 762

[Mr. Doug Henderson] for this in the Queen’s Speech, but some background speeches have been made to illustrate the Government’s There is a need to change the structures that deal with position. flooding. I have had flooding in my constituency and I The Government are in the right territory on this: the ended up co-ordinating the activities of the Environment points system is fine, but I think there also needs to be a Agency, the local authority, the water company, social more frequent review of the points within every category services and several other people. That, however, is not so that the system responds to labour-market conditions really the role of an MP; an MP’s role is to have an more flexibly than at the moment. I would like to have interest in it and to know what is going on. A lead seen something to deal with that in the relevant Bill, but agency should be made responsible for it, but I do not it is not in it. think that there is one. All the agencies are trying to do everything, so there is a need for some structural change. Let me explain the link to training. If we allow so We await the detail in the Bill. many of our young people—I know many students cannot get work at the moment and the Government Secondly, resources will be required to tackle whatever have some plans to deal with it—to believe that we are recommendations are put forward in any particular not doing enough to help them to get work and that we part of the country. Our planning regulations need to are relying on migrants, we will create the conditions for be looked at as well. The House may well have considered deeper social conflict in the years ahead when we will this on another day, but people who think they can really need those migrants. We need more active training simply stick concrete or tarmac anywhere they want as schemes in order to help people—including some in part of a development really have to be stopped. There parts of my constituency whose families have not been needs to be a much more considered environmental in work for generations—back into work. It is crucial approach to these matters, so that at least some of the that at the same time as we meet some of our labour territory where the development is taking place has a demands from migrants—we will need to do so—we porous surface that will allow rainwater to drain in a also bring into work people from communities where more natural way. We rarely see serious flooding, apart they have not worked in the more recent past. We need from river floods, in the middle of fields; we now see a to combine those two aspects in our plans to meet lot of it in urban areas because of the inability of our labour demands over the next 25 years or so. We need to drainage systems to take the water away. I look forward start now; we cannot start doing this 10 years down the to this important Flood and Water Management Bill. line when the shortages are critical. I know that the Especially after last week’s events in Cumbria, I hope Government have their minds on this and I hope that the House will reach a consensus and allow the Bill to they will concentrate them a little more. If the Queen’s become law before the end of this Parliament. Speech helps them to do that, it will certainly have my support. Thirdly—I will also have to try to find more time for this on another occasion—I am vice-chairman of the Council of Europe Committee on Migration, Refugees 4.19 pm and Population. We deal with demographic issues as Stewart Hosie (Dundee, East) (SNP): I am delighted they arise—basically in the world, albeit in their relation to follow the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, to Europe. We look at asylum, refugees and all those North (Mr. Henderson) and to speak in this debate, things. In the Queen’s Speech, the Government rightly although I suspect that the measures announced in the identify training as an important issue. Some people Queen’s speech will play second fiddle to many of those might ask about the link between that and migration. I announced in the pre-Budget report and the Budget believe that the political world has to start raising the next spring. At that point, at least the Chancellor will importance of that link. We have got to stop talking be forced to describe, in more detail, the public finances about migration and immigration as burdens that have and our economic condition, which he failed to do to be shared among European countries. Migrants make today. enormous contributions to our economic way of life in this country and throughout Europe. We have got to We know that our deficit is at least £175 billion, or start recognising that. Figures given to the Davos conference 12.4 per cent. of GDP. That is forecast to fall, based on in 2008 showed that there will be massive changes what were considered very optimistic growth figures, to throughout Europe in the proportion of the population 5.5 per cent. of GDP by 2013-14. That will still be more that is over 65. It will be a much bigger proportion— than twice the level of the pre-crash deficit rate of 10 per cent. more at the moment; about 30 per cent. or 2.4 per cent. in 2007-08. On the treaty calculation, the 40 per cent. more in the future. national debt is forecast to hit £1.6 trillion in 2013-14, which will be £60,000 per household. Conversely, there will be a dramatic reduction in the As appalling as those figures are, they might yet be proportion of young 18 to 30-year-olds. I know that the wide of the mark, given that they were based on what British Army is looking at future recruitment patterns were considered to be, putting it gently, heroically optimistic and wondering where it is going to get enough young growth forecasts. That is not least because this recession people to join it in the necessary cohort. The answer is is already longer and in many ways deeper than the two either that it will have to recruit them from somewhere Tory recessions of the 1980s and 1990s, of which I have else or that we will have to cut the size of the Army. A personal memories—they were not pleasant experiences. lot of employers are looking at the same issue and Both those recessions lasted for five quarters, while this trying to find ways to recruit in the future. The political one has already lasted for six quarters, and their GDP world has to take a lead in this and say, “Yes, we need declines were 4.7 and 2.5 per cent. respectively, while migration.” I believe that managed migration is what we this recession’s GDP decline has already hit 5.9 per cent. need. I know that no specific provision has been made It is inconceivable that it will take any less time to return 763 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 764 to pre-recession GDP levels than the two full years that they were almost there, but those figures are based on it took, in both cases, after the crashes of 1980-81 and growth forecasts, which were pretty much knocked out 1990-91. of the park last year. The tragedy of the recession is that unemployment Government consumption has been the main element and youth unemployment are higher today than under supporting demand in the economy. It is 2.2 per cent. the Tories in 1997, just before Labour came to power. higher now than it was a year ago. Household consumption Between March and May 1997, all unemployment stood has fallen by 3.6 per cent., business investment by 20 per at 7 per cent., compared with 8.1 per cent. today, and cent., and gross fixed capital formation by 17 per cent. youth unemployment was at 12.5 per cent., compared If we strip out what has been keeping the economy with 18.6 per cent. today. Under Labour, 943,000 young afloat at this point—as we go into what is only a gentle people are now on the dole. That is bad enough, but the recovery—we will risk dipping the economy back into real killer is that in both previous recessions unemployment recession, or causing a double-dip recession. The real kept rising when the recessions technically ended: for challenge is to stimulate the economy, get people back three full years in the case of the 1980-81 recession, and to work, reduce social protection costs, increase revenue for two full years in the case of the 1990-91 recession. yield and, after that, tackle the deficit and the debt. Therefore, things could get much worse. Then there is unemployment. What the recession has laid bare, and what none of the measures in the Queen’s The Government’s response to that, at least in the Speech will address, is the difficulty of creating jobs in Queen’s Speech, has been precisely nothing. On economic what has become a wholly unbalanced economy. We matters, they have suggested a Financial Services Bill have become far too dependent on the tax and jobs and a fiscal responsibility Bill. The Financial Services created by the growth in financial services, to the detriment Bill would introduce powers over contracts and bonuses, of traditional employment. There has been a 40 per powers to allow class actions, and powers to act on cent. fall in manufacturing employment over 30 years, short selling, which are all to be welcomed. Removing and at least 1 million manufacturing jobs have been lost the incentive to take too many risks is sensible, as is since Labour came to power. Less than 10 per cent. of establishing a council for financial stability to consider the work force are now employed in wealth-creating emerging risks. However, the Bank of England already manufacturing. Even with sterling down against the produces a financial stability report, so the creation of a dollar and the euro, between 2007 and the beginning of new body is less important than how its members 2009 the United Kingdom had a balance-of-payments analyse the data and measure the risk, and whether they deficit of £93 billion in the trade in goods, and a total feel that they have the authority and ability to stop risky balance-of-trade deficit that suppressed GDP growth activities that lead to the systemic problems seen in the by 1.6 per cent. That is wholly unsustainable. We need banking crisis. In that, the Financial Services Bill is to find a strategy that does not rely wholly on tax and sorely lacking. jobs for financial services, but creates wealth and gets Back in 2000, I think, the financial stability report people back to work. included a detailed description of the south-east Asian These are the lessons that I hope the Government will banking crisis, and set out all the factors that led to the incorporate in the Bills announced in the Queen’s Speech problems: easy credit, over-reliance on income from and in the pre-Budget report. First, the proposed deep property and so on. By the time we got the 2007 Bank and savage cuts in public investment are wrong. The of England report, many of those factors were in existence. Government should re-profile capital expenditure for a The Bank of England glossed over them, and said that further year to protect recovery. Secondly, there must be the risk had been spread and that everything was fine. a real focus on rebalancing the economy to create new The risk had not been spread; the risk was everywhere, and sustainable manufacturing jobs. Thirdly, as well as and no one had confidence in any of the assets held by doing their important work on bank bonuses and contracts, the banks. That was a huge part of the problem that the Government need to address the difficult issues of stopped the banks lending to each other. derivatives, securitisation and counter-party risk, so that they can deal with the real systemic problems that On banking reform more generally, in the “Reforming caused the banking crisis rather than merely tinkering financial markets” White Paper in June, the Government around the edges. spoke about action to enhance the robustness and functioning of key derivatives markets. However, as I I thought that Labour had given up on the “We are think I said at the time, that amounted to no more than investing while everyone else is cutting”argument because a road map to improvements, support for international that is patently untrue, as is clear from the real-terms efforts and the principle of transparency.The new Financial cut in the Scottish Government budget delivered by the Services Bill does not even build on those statements. Labour party in Government in London. It was massively disappointing to hear the Chancellor return to the old There is no timeline at all for the creation of a regime rhetoric. There will be no credibility in anything that properly to minimise the systemic risk of these weapons this Government do, good or bad, if they persist with of financial mass destruction. The details of the fiscal the “We are investing and other people are not” line, responsibility Bill, to be announced in the pre-Budget because objective reality tells us that London Labour report, may give us a little more, but all that has been Government budget cuts are driving cuts in every spending announced so far is a pledge to halve the deficit over Department, every council and every devolved four years. Given the Red Book’s forecast of a Administration in the country. £173 billion deficit next year and a deficit of £97 billion in four years’ time, in cash terms the Government will 4.29 pm need to find an extra £11 billion worth of cuts over the Mr. Jim Cunningham (Coventry, South) (Lab): I was next four years. In terms of percentage of GDP, a fall a little disappointed while listening to the shadow from 12.4 per cent. to 5.5 per cent. would mean that Chancellor, the hon. Member for Tatton (Mr. Osborne), 765 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 766

[Mr. Jim Cunningham] That is another reason why the situation is so serious. That will, of course, have an effect on Coventry, but outline how he would approach the current economic there is another issue that we in Coventry want to talk difficulties. Eighteen months or so ago, the Opposition’s about in connection with investing in skills in the area main argument was not to do with the economy; their and the wider west midlands region. We know that theme then was that Britain was a broken society. Since Warwick university is going to make cuts, yet we are then they have abandoned that, however, and they are always saying we want more skills. There is also a big now instead trying to suggest there was no international debate going on about student tuition fees. If we are not banking crisis, but that the difficulties were all down to very careful, that could become a form of student the Labour Government, even though most people rationing. More importantly, however, jobs may be know that to be untrue. The current economic difficulties going at this university. We are due to have a meeting are different from the difficulties of the ’80s; the current with the vice-chancellor to discuss that. situation is an international crisis, whereas in the ’80s it If the Government truly want to help Coventry took place in this country and was Government-made. economically, they could also look at the Nuckle project. That is the fundamental difference, and it is one of the My hon. Friend the Member for Coventry, North-West reasons why the current economic crisis is also a lot deeper. and I have had a number of meetings on that over the I can certainly remember the ’80s, and it is worth last five years. The council blames the Government for while all of us remembering them. I have a manufacturing the delay, and the Government blame the council on the background, and in the ’80s under the previous Government basis that the council has not produced a business plan. manufacturing was almost entirely massacred, certainly If the Government truly want to start getting the west in the west midlands. We need only recall what happened midlands economy going—and in particular the Coventry to the car industry—what happened to all the car economy—they must start to throw their weight behind companies that were household names not only in our that project, because it is, in a way, a west midlands country, but internationally, and the small businesses project. that relied on them for their trade. There were some I am sure many Members will know about the Ricoh problems with Rolls-Royce, too. All that happened under arena in Coventry, which is now in many ways really the previous Government. The Conservatives do not a national arena. It attracts a lot of visitors, as well as a like to talk about the past, because when we look at how lot of bands and various groups, and it could be a they behaved in the past it gives us a good idea as to major player in the Olympics. That is why the Nuckle how they will behave in the future. project that I mentioned is important, because we need In today’s debate I have identified only one Conservative a new railway station in the vicinity of the arena to alternative proposal to our policies: public sector cuts. allow people to travel back and forth. The project could That has serious implications. Would such cuts mean create more jobs, and I hope that the Minister for Business, that we would go back to having fewer doctors, nurses Innovation and Skills will talk to my right hon. Friend and schoolteachers? Would public sector pension funds the Chancellor to give this a little push; as he is a west come under attack? The throwaway line on those cuts in midlands MP, I would like to think that he will. the shadow Chancellor’s speech today gave a lot away, I must pay tribute to my Front-Bench colleagues although he was not spelling it out. However, if the from the west midlands, because the Government have Conservatives want to be an alternative Government, taken the area seriously. If they had not, would we have they need to spell this out to the British people now; had a Select Committee and a Minister? The aim is to they cannot hide from that. All the shadow Chancellor give a bit of impetus to the west midlands, but it is did today was quote Labour MPs and attack the Chancellor equally important that Ministers understand that or the Prime Minister. That was a smokescreen put up unemployment in the west midlands is far too high. It is to hide the fact that his party’s proposals would represent probably about 10 per cent. now—[Interruption.] My a return to the past in the form of a modern-day version hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, South-West of Thatcherite economics. (Rob Marris) seems to agree with me, and he is quite I want to discuss some matters of local concern for good with figures. me and for my Coventry constituents, in particular the The Government have to start to take a good look at recent announcement by Ericsson that 700 jobs will go. what is happening now in the west midlands, particularly A couple of years ago there was a similarly arbitrary in manufacturing. The innovation fund could be used a proposal from Peugeot. It is clear from talking to the little more to help companies such as Jaguar and a labour force that they feel that they do not have as much number of others that wish to go into green technology. protection as labour forces in Europe. We could refer That is where the fund could play a major part in back to more of the history, such as what happened at creating the new industries for the west midlands, and Rover. The Government must seriously think about Coventry in particular. Its universities have always played giving people’s jobs in this country more protection. As a major part in engineering projects in Coventry. If the I am sure my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry, Government can get strongly behind these areas, they North-West (Mr. Robinson) would confirm, the company will start to get the west midlands moving again and in question told us in a telephone conversation that it give the labour force confidence, and we will retain would not go back on its decision, but that it would those skills in the west midlands. These issues are therefore start to consult. In such circumstances, all that happens vital to the west midlands. in a “consultation” is that company representatives announce, “We’re now going to tell you that your jobs Lorely Burt: As a fellow west midlands MP, I am sure are going.” that the hon. Gentleman is aware that unemployment is The other important factor in the Ericsson situation higher there than anywhere else in the country. I am is that we are short of technicians in this country, yet sure he must also know that the university enterprise most of the jobs that will go will be technicians’ jobs. network scheme is being piloted at Coventry university 767 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 768 and the university of Warwick. What a fantastic way In a short space of time, the banks seem to have gone that is to harness the skills and innovation of young from one extreme to the other—from excessive risk-taking people and to introduce the enterprise culture—it is to excessive caution. We all have companies in our common in the west midlands, but we need more of it at constituencies coming to us with the same story. They the moment. have a good sound business, a good track record and plenty of orders, but when they try to raise money from Mr. Cunningham: The hon. Lady makes my point for the banks to see themselves through the recession they me; Warwick university is fourth in the country, and we are either turned down flat or, if money is offered, it is do not want to lose that impetus. Surrounding the offered at a very high interest rate with a large arrangement university are the business and science parks and all fee and often demands for high levels of security for any sorts of things. When we went down that road about loans that are offered. 25 years ago, a previous Minister in the Thatcher Government said that the local authority had no business Another common theme is complaints from small getting involved. Who was looking ahead to the future—was businesses that the cuts in the base rate are not passed it the local authority or the Thatcher Government? on by the banks to individuals or to business customers. Hon. Members can take their pick. I agree with the hon. Getting lending moving again at reasonable interest Lady that unemployment in the west midlands is far too rates is important, because although we are, I hope, high, which is why I made some of my remarks about starting to come out of the recession, there will still be what we can do when we put some shoulder behind difficult times ahead for businesses. For example, the things. Government’s plans are to reverse the VAT cut shortly and many of the other schemes to help businesses will Another issue that worries people in Coventry is the also come to an end. amount of credit available to small businesses. Like many others who have spoken today, I think that banks I remind the Government that when they reduced have been very slow to release credit for small businesses, VAT last year, two sectors did not benefit from that cut and when it has been made available small businesses because fuel duty and alcohol duty were put up to have been made to pay a high price for it through cancel it out. Both sectors are of importance in my interest charges and so on. The Government should constituency. Fuel duty increases penalise my constituency certainly put their shoulder behind things in that area, because we must, out of necessity, drive long distances. because as we all know, and as has been said in previous I shall return to a theme that I have raised often in debates, small businesses are the backbone of innovation Finance Bill debates and urge the Treasury yet again to and industry in this country. These are areas in which consider making use of the EU derogation that allows the Government have done a lot, but we have to keep countries to levy lower rates of fuel duty in remote rural the pressure on them and tell them that although they areas. If the Treasury could take advantage of that EU are doing a good job, they must do more. derogation and levy a lower rate of fuel duty at filling stations in the remote parts of the highlands and islands, I hope that Ministers will take back with them some that would contribute greatly to the local economy. It is of the things that I have said today, but I wish to finish important to remember that people in the highlands my contribution by discussing the King’s Hill project. It and islands face higher fuel costs as well as having to will have major implications on the environment in the travel long distances, so the price of fuel is very important. King’s Hill area in Coventry, particularly in relation to the green belt. There has been a major demonstration in As far as alcohol duty is concerned, I much preferred Coventry about the King’s Hill project. It all centres the policy of the previous Chancellor to that of the around the fact that the region was asked to provide present Chancellor. The previous Chancellor, during his 365,000 houses. Lots of negotiations went on with local long tenure in the post, had a policy of freezing the duty authorities—who are trying to blame the Government—but on spirits while allowing that on beers and wines to go they reached a figure of 33,000 for Coventry. up in line with inflation. The alcohol duty on spirits is far higher per unit of alcohol than that on beers and It is said that the brown belt—or brownfield site—can wines. Surely, if alcohol is taxed for health reasons, the take only 25,000 houses, and those involved want to only logic is that it should be taxed at the same rate per cross into the green belt. The green-belt area of Coventry— unit of alcohol. I urge the Chancellor to revert to the the King’s Hill area—goes back to medieval times. policy of his predecessor and freeze the duty on spirits. There is a vacant medieval village, a monument, all Whisky distilleries are major employers in my constituency, sorts of wildlife and all sorts of environmental things providing jobs on remote islands where other work is that entice schoolchildren. In my view, it would be a hard to find. I therefore hope that the Chancellor will desecration if 3,000 houses were allowed to be built listen to that advice. there. The infrastructure will not take it. There was a As I said earlier, small businesses still face a difficult suggestion of a new railway station that would help the time. The banks that were bailed out by the taxpayer infrastructure, because there would then have been transport with eye-wateringly large sums of money should have a facilities, but that has now been abandoned. The roads duty to help small businesses through these difficult are congested at the moment—about a fortnight ago it times. Nationally owned banks should act in the national took me two hours to get home from my surgery—and interest, and the Chancellor is the main shareholder in now they want to heap more traffic on those roads. All several banks, having a controlling interest in some and in all, I would say that it would be an act of environmental a substantial holding in others. When the Ministers vandalism to allow that project to go ahead. sums up the debate, I hope that he will tell the House 4.41 pm what instructions the Government have given to the Mr. Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): The main banks in which they are the main shareholder. theme of my speech will be a common theme today: the I sincerely hope that those banks have not been told banks and the problems that many of their customers in by the Government that their sole duty is to maximise small and medium-sized businesses face. their profits, and that they have also been given a duty 769 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 770

[Mr. Alan Reid] I was very disappointed by the Supreme Court decision yesterday that the banking practice of imposing unfair to help solvent British businesses through the recession. overdraft charges on individuals was within the law. I I do not mean by that that they should encourage risky was disappointed that the court sided with the banks in lending, but there are solvent companies with good that judgment and I hope that the Government will prospects and good track records that need loans to soon introduce legislation to outlaw those unfair charges. help them through these difficult times. Banks with a I endorse what the Chairman of the Business, Innovation substantial Government shareholding should consider and Skills Committee said earlier about the need for a the needs of the entire economy, and not just focus on supermarket ombudsman. Such a post is badly needed maximising profits. to help small businesses and consumers, particularly in I shall give an example from my constituency that the dairy industry where there is a huge gap between the involves the Bank of Scotland, which is now part of farm-gate price for milk and the price the consumer Lloyds Banking Group and is 43 per cent. owned by the pays at the supermarket. I hope the Government will Government. The bank decided recently to withdraw all accept the Competition Commission recommendation but one of the business relationship managers from its and set up the post as soon as possible. branches in my constituency, even though local managers I look forward to the Minister’s response. I hope he living in the remote communities know them in a way will tell us what instructions the Government have given that business management teams located in Edinburgh, the banks in which they have a major shareholding, so for example, could never match. that banks can help British businesses through the One of the affected branches was on the island of recession, rather than simply maximising profits. Islay. The decision to remove the business manager there has caused great outrage and concern among the island’s business community, which will now be served 4.50 pm by a manager in a business team based on the mainland. Mr. Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) I am in full agreement with the members of that community (Con): One of the most depressing aspects of the that a manager and a team based on the mainland will Government’s record over the past 12 years has been never understand the special circumstances of Islay’s their unwillingness, bordering at times on the foolhardy, economy as well as a manager who lived there would, to take long-term decisions. One thinks in particular of and I back their campaign to reinstate the post on the nuclear energy or our transport infrastructure. The island. flagrantly tactical rather than strategic nature of the To the bank’s credit, it has amended its plans in Queen’s Speech represents more of the same. response to the campaign, and there will now be a dedicated team for business customers in the highlands Collectively, the nation was lulled into a false sense of and islands. That is a welcome step forward and an security by the clement economic conditions that prevailed improvement on the original proposals, but I still think for a decade from the mid 1990s, alongside a delusional that the mainland-based team will not have the same feeling that the good times would last for ever. In that knowledge of Islay’s economy as a manager living there sense at least, the Government may have been in tune would. That is an example of how banks with the with public sentiment. There is an almost primeval taxpayer as their main shareholder should look to support human urge to avoid confronting the unpalatable in the local communities. I hope that Ministers will take this hope that today’s problems will simply fix themselves. issue up with the Bank of Scotland and urge it to “Something will turn up” is the watchword of the reinstate the post. cheerily optimistic and the insanely reckless alike. Another way for the Government to help both individuals One of the underlying characteristics of the deep and small businesses would be to establish a post bank, financial and debt crisis in which we find ourselves is which would have 10,000 branches throughout the country. that continuing state of denial. Part of it is understandable. I was pleased with the announcement about the post Two years of almost constant news headlines have bank that the Prime Minister made at the Labour party suggested that we are living in a massive financial crisis, conference, but I have been disappointed with the slow yet those headlines have not been matched—except for progress since then. people who have already lost their jobs—by any sense Post offices are still closing, and two have shut in my of financial sacrifice among the public at large. More constituency since the end of the planned closure and more Government money is being pumped into the programme. As well as helping individuals and small economy, so the sense of denial continues. Far too few businesses with their banking, a post bank would also of us in Parliament, across party divides, have woken up help to rescue the rural post office network. I hope that to the enormity of the debt crisis that will follow hot on the Minister summing up the debate will have progress the heels of the economic downturn, yet the seriousness to report on the post bank proposal. of what will follow cannot long be denied. As well as supporting businesses through the recession, For sure, technically the worst of the economic recession the Government should also be looking at investing in may now be behind us, although it would be premature the infrastructure that the country needs so badly. to conclude that a double-dip recession is not on the Infrastructure investment is needed in school buildings, cards as the effect of the continued fiscal stimulus dies public transport, broadband provision, the national off—probably just after the general election next spring. grid and so on. We need a mechanism for reducing the Despite some of the glib green-shoots commentary, we cost of capital through Government guarantees, while should understand that the banking crisis represented at the same time tapping into private savers’ demands nothing unusual. Indeed, it signalled the end of another for long-term investment. That is why I support a UK in a long line of boom and bust cycles—positively national infrastructure bank, and I hope that that it is commonplace in the second half of the last century—caused an idea that the Government will also support. by speculative euphoria and an excess of credit. 771 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 772

It is of course in the Labour Government’s narrow China’s policy of suppressing its currency to soak up interest to present the current downturn as entirely the west’s debt in the bond markets further helped to unprecedented, caused by modern financial alchemy keep down interest rates, yet the resultant over-investment, gone wrong, failure by regulators or rank unforeseen excess capacity and vast structural debt in the west misfortune. That is not so. It is true that the global remains in place. I agree that the underlying causes of nature of the economic crisis has made things far worse, the crisis have not yet gone away. but there are clear lessons we can learn from the past. The biggest threat in the years ahead is that the One of the grand old names of British banking, Barings, indiscriminate pumping of money by the Bank of England collapsed owing £780 million only 14 years ago; today, into the economy will bring with it an unsustainable RBS survives courtesy of a £45.5 billion bail-out. It is combination of inflation, rising unemployment, weak only the extent of the economic downturn, not its growth and diminished competitiveness. If we are not cause, that is so very different. careful, that toxic mix will bring about stagflation—truly The UK economic downturn began when the household a back-to-the-1970s phenomenon. The very worst case debt and housing bubbles burst simultaneously. Our scenario is that a future Government may regard a house prices rose 88.5 per cent. in the decade to 2007. sustained dose of inflation as the quickest and most Even in the sub-prime enhanced US that index rose by politically expedient way of helping to bring down the only 64 per cent. Similarly, our average household debt level of public debt. leapt from 105 per cent. in 1997 to 177 per cent. of disposable income a decade later. In both continental In truth, any UK Government who are regarded as Europe and the US, the overall levels and the increases popular in 2011 or 2012 will probably not be administering during that period were significantly lower. effective economic medicine. To do the right thing on tax and expenditure in the years to come will not be For the first decade of this Labour Administration, seen as a politically easy option. The billions being we seemed to be living in the very best of times. However, borrowed now by the Government to ease the impact of in our complacency we planted the seeds of catastrophe. the downturn for today’s electors will be repaid by Consumer consumption in the US and Europe was future generations in the form of higher spending, maintained by unsustainable levels of public and private higher inflation and reduced living standards, yet the debt. The dotcom revolution of almost a decade ago true cost of all that will not become apparent in the was hailed as a new paradigm. Almost imperceptibly, months ahead. The Government are desperately hoping the wages of middle income earners stagnated, while that neither the sands of time, nor the patience and consumption in a low-inflation, low-interest-rate economy good will of an increasingly alarmed gilt and bonds remained apparently robust. market, run out before they have to face the voters. That In truth, as we have seen, the erstwhile Chancellor’s makes talk of economic recovery now very dangerous. new economy was sustained by an old-fashioned private debt bubble. Cheap mortgages remained eminently Contrary to the rather fatuous claims by the Prime affordable by virtue of the deflationary effects of China Minister, there is not a simple, binary choice, in which and India’s emergence on the global economic scene. Tory cuts are set against Labour investment. There is a Given the colossal sums of taxpayers’ money that have hard slog ahead for any Administration. The trouble is been spent globally, and given that immense Government that much of the debate on banking regulation has guarantees continue to underpin the financial system, it focused on how we should have prevented the last is remarkable how little agreement there is on what crash. That has not been helped by a Government constitutes the point at which the banking industry can whose recent economic policy pronouncements are be said to be fixed. To that extent, I agree with what the governed less by national interest and more by a scorched- right hon. Member for Oldham, West and Royton earth approach, designed to limit the room for manoeuvre (Mr. Meacher) said. for years to come of any incoming Conservative Administration. Less still is there any emerging consensus on the ideal future landscape of the financial services world. That is The fact is that the stuffing has been knocked out of no mere academic issue. The imperative to start repaying this Parliament—and, in truth, all parliamentarians—by all that borrowing at the earliest opportunity cannot be the implications of the allowances scandal. Only the overstated. However, commercial lending is unlikely to catharsis of a general election can end the expenses return to anything like normal until the second half of saga. Nothing would be more catastrophic for trust in 2011, because toxic assets are being removed only gradually our democratic institutions and processes than for that from bank balance streets. The credit crunch will be toxic controversy to be prolonged into the next Parliament. with all small and medium-sized businesses for some As a result of party managers’ repeated abject failure to time to come. Extending quantitative easing beyond clear up a discredited system, which many of us regarded £200 billion would put our medium-term economic for some time as illegitimate, the matter came to a head prospects at great risk, so when can the Treasury and only when the country was in deep recession. That has the Bank of England call time on their short-term fixes? made the parliamentary obsession with expenses and Despite all the euphoria of a narrative suggesting that allowances even less palatable. The public have rightly recovery is perhaps within sight—the FTSE index has asked, “If parliamentarians have not the ability to put been back above 5,300—I fear that we are still a long their own house in order on allowances and expenses, way from being out of the woods. how can they be trusted to regulate and legislate for the rest of the country?” I have spoken before in the House about the root causes of the global imbalances brought about by the The political class needs to face some harsh truths. west’s financial calamity. In many ways, those causes The impact of this economic downturn, to paraphrase are the credit and debt bubble, along with the east’s Churchillian rhetoric, may not even be at the end of the aggressive desire to build market share in global trade. beginning. We have been living through a phoney war, 773 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 774

[Mr. Mark Field] where we and the Government in particular could give a lead is clean coal technology. There, all the areas at and the shock of the economic crash has been only to which we, nationally, can excel come together—particularly our senses: we are, as I said, wallowing in a lake of in making different sectors work together. We have the Government-funded cash. straightforward engineering skills, and clean coal will I am not sure that politics in this country has ever be a massive engineering job; we have the science aspects, before experienced anything quite like the current situation. including chemical process engineering; and, not least, We have a discredited, exhausted Parliament that shuffles we have the physics aspects that will inevitably be involved. on to its day of destiny with the electorate, and it is very We do not need to pull together a committee that works sad that the Queen’s Speech reflects that intellectual out of the Department for Energy and Climate Change, bankruptcy and physical exhaustion. There is no flair, even though it would be useful, and it would no doubt no vision, no passion, no conviction and no leadership—to give a push here and there to make us go quicker. If we the detriment of all whom we seek to represent. The could pull together people in this country—inside and 54th UK Parliament will not be much lamented. outside Government and in institutions—as a combined team of engineers and scientists, and set out to crack the remaining technical difficulties that stand in the 5.1 pm way, we could at least get back into one sector. Mr. Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry, North-West) (Lab): As things stand, we are certainly not going to get I apologise for not having been present for earlier parts back into telecoms. The work force at Coventry—700 of the debate, but I am very pleased to have been called qualified scientists and engineers—represent the very to speak now. last capability that Ericsson has in telecoms communication, I shall discuss a particular incident that took place in in both systems and optics. No one is going to pretend recent weeks in my city, Coventry—namely, the sudden, that telecoms is an old-fashioned technology to which unexpected closure of the Ericsson research facility we are sentimentally attached, like motorcycles were at with its 700 highly qualified scientists and engineers. I one time, but it is a technology of the current age. am pleased to see on the Front Bench my right hon. Friend the Minister for Business, Innovation and Skills I am not sure whether it should concern us that we and my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary to the have no indigenous presence, let alone a British-owned Treasury, who, like me, has a west midlands seat and has presence, in that vast and important area, but it worries witnessed, over many years, the relentless, remorseless me that the Government are not sure about that. I do decline in our manufacturing sector. That is a matter for not think they have even thought about it, because we many in the House, not least the right hon. and learned do not have a strategy Department—I do not want to Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke), who speaks for the hear about picking winners or anything like that—or a Opposition on these matters. When he was Chancellor, basic capacity to evaluate the relative importance of he did his best in some ways to protect manufacturing new, modern technologies, which are vital to the persistence and was always willing to speak up for it. of an industrialised state. I believe telecoms to be one such technology. That we do not have the capacity to Nevertheless, the situation has occurred year in, year ask, “Does it matter at all that Britain is about to lose out, decade in, decade out, and not just over the past its last capability in that area?” concerns me. 10 years. It is sobering to think that over that period we have lost a further 1 million manufacturing jobs, but I put it to my right hon. Friend the Minister for this is not a question of 10 years: the situation has been Business, Innovation and Skills that he should quickly going on for 50 years. Ever since the war or, at any rate, convene a group not of the great and the good, but of the 1970s, we have seen that remorseless decline. people who know their business, and he should ask, This is hardly a good thing, but one inescapable “Does this really matter?” Those 700 people at Ericsson consequence of the recession from which we are now may get jobs in telecoms in this country in either perhaps emerging, although we are a long way from maintenance or servicing, but not at the sharp end of returning to the growth rate that we enjoyed, is that research and development for the future, particularly in people suddenly see how out of balance the economy optics, which is the sector that seems to be going ahead had become. It looked great that the bonuses in the City very much at the moment, and in systems. could make good so much deficiency and decline elsewhere, but we should all have realised, and perhaps some did, The Government could find a way of saving some of that we were living in a fool’s paradise. We now know those 700 jobs—it would not be a case of saving the that, if not all, then a massive chunk of those service whole 700 and I doubt whether more than 300 or industries have disappeared for good, and the huge 400 are actually involved in that key area. Let me be bonuses that the City brought with it are not going to perfectly direct with the Minister about this. It has been return. We have to face up over the next period to put to me by people not a million miles away from the rebalancing the economy, in which manufacturing will Ericsson plant that it is involved in key areas that are at inevitably have to play a major role. It is not going to be the forefront of everything that the company does. The easy, however. whole integrated systems work, on which Ericsson depends, in turn depends on those few key areas. From the Front Bench and elsewhere in the House, we all speak airily of how the green economy will bring The Minister spoke the other day about all the key the jobs of the future, through wind energy and, eventually, funds that we have set up to enable people to move solar energy and wave energy, but when I look around forward, which are excellent. Many of the funds are and see the UK output and actual and prospective working very well, and we could use them on contractual employment from it, I fear that it is yet another growth arrangements for those key areas. Perhaps the research area on which we will all miss out. However, one area and development and the intellectual property rights 775 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 776 would, initially and understandably, have to remain April, how many were currently under consideration with Ericsson, but we should nevertheless retain the key and how many businesses had received funding. I was element of that work force. told that 280 applications had been received, which is Instead, we have done what we always do. I make no not bad. Of those, 80 were still being processed and excuse for that, because like everybody else, I do it. The only nine had received funds, only three of which were unions phone up and we say we will have a meeting, at in Cornwall. A 3 per cent. success rate is not good which they say, “Look, you’ve got to get the Secretary enough, especially when the Government’s slogan is of State.” We say, “Yes, we’re going to a meeting with “Real help now.” Perhaps it should be, “Real help in a the Secretary of State.” We then go to the management, bit, when we get round to processing the applications.” who say, “That’s great. Let us know how you get on. Speed of response is as important as ensuring that the Are you going to help us?” We have a meeting here, and funds are appropriately directed, and it is clear the the Secretary of State, who is active long before we get Government have failed many local businesses in my to him—all deference to him for that—is on the phone constituency that are trying hard to keep their heads twice, laying the law down, saying, “This isn’t good above water. enough,” and Ericsson management reply, “Too bad.” Another example is a coffee roasting company that That is what happened, and it was to a very formidable had hoped to expand and buy some capital equipment. Minister in another House that I put those suggestions. It applied for a grant from the business investment Only if we can create a sanction of some kind or an fund. It was turned down by the RDA because the incentive that a company cannot resist will anything wages paid were not high enough at £16,500 a year. In happen. Something along the lines of my suggestions to Cornwall, we rely on small businesses and incomes are the Minister could well amount to such a sanction or low. For many people in Cornwall, that is a decent incentive. wage, but the RDA finds it difficult to respond on the small scale of support that is needed. As the Minister knows, we are due to meet him next week—[Interruption.] I apologise if he did not know The mortgage rescue scheme was yet another flagship that. The meeting is tentative until he confirms. I may announcement of Government support. Constituents bring not only the unions, but one or two of the key of mine were told this time last year that they would be technologists in the area, if they will come, who know among the first people to benefit from the buy and rent what they could do and how the matter can be taken back scheme that the Government proposed. My forward. What we do not want is to roll over once again, constituents had anticipated that when their fixed rate without knowing how critical it may be to our economy, ended they would experience difficulties, and they did and say, “Another 700 jobs gone. Isn’t it terrible? That’s everything that they could to avoid that. They had never 1,000,700 this year and in another five years it will be been in arrears and they told their mortgage company another 500,000.” We simply cannot carry on like that, two months in advance. They were very excited by the especially now that the recession has bitten so deep. prospect of some support that would allow them to stay Look at the strength of Germany, France, Italy and in their home, even if they did not own it. They were Japan, let alone the newly industrialised countries. We told to stop making any contributions towards their have to have a more nationally focused effort, without mortgage while they were considered for the scheme, picking winners, and I think that Ericsson would be a and as a result they ended up in arrears and with legal good place to start. fees. In April, they were told that they were no longer eligible for the scheme, and they are now in a worse position than they would have been if they had not 5.10 pm sought help. They are unable to remortgage because Julia Goldsworthy (Falmouth and Camborne) (LD): they have arrears, they have negative equity, and they It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Coventry, are very worried that they are going to lose their house. North-West (Mr. Robinson). His contribution typified From their point of view, the Government’s intervention our debate. We had some good, fun, political knockabout has made their circumstances worse, not better. I am from the Front Benches, but others have debated the disappointed to report that following correspondence much wider issues that our economy faces and the with the Minister for Housing, they felt that his Department impact that the headline figures for unemployment, had failed to accept any responsibility for the role that it GDP and growth have on people in our communities. I played in their current circumstances, which are appalling. shall focus on the human impact in my constituency of I hope that he will consider the case again. the economic difficulties that we are having, not least I do not necessarily have a problem with the need for because the national statistics do not effectively capture such initiatives, because businesses and home owners some of the complexities that are experienced locally. need support. Publicising those initiatives has an important There is a lot going on behind those large figures and impact on perception, but perception only matters if it my concern is that the difficult experiences of people, matches up with experiences on the ground. Unfortunately, even if they are not unemployed, do not get picked up the experiences of my constituents are very different and are not properly addressed. Too many cases have from what is highlighted in press releases when the been brought to my attention in which the rash of initiatives are announced. centralised initiatives that we have seen—in many different In tackling the current economic situation, speed of areas, including business support, housing and employment response is vital. I am not sure that the Government support—may have grabbed the headlines, but have not have accepted that. I would cite not only the example I been so good at delivery. gave about the small business loan scheme but the The first example is the small business loans fund. I support that people are provided with when they are asked the South West of England Regional Development looking for work. This week, I visited Working Links in Agency how many applications it had received since Redruth, which I found extremely impressive in terms 777 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 778

[Julia Goldsworthy] has disappeared off the agenda entirely. That is a great shame and will create great difficulties for many people of the work it was doing to deliver the flexible new deal, experiencing financial troubles. providing people with highly individual support that was important in giving them confidence. However, I 5.20 pm could not understand why an individual has to be out of work for a year before they can stand to benefit from Mr. David Jones (Clwyd, West) (Con): In the short such tailored, individualised support. Nor could I time available to me, I should like to focus on one sector understand another aspect that would be simple to of the economy that is extremely important in both change and would address the fears of many of the United Kingdom and Welsh terms, and that is the people I spoke to during my visit. One of the clients construction industry. It is a major driver of the British said that they were worried about participating in the economy, employing some 2 million people in this country scheme because it involved signing off from jobseeker’s and accounting for some 6 per cent. of national economic allowance for two weeks while they did some work-based output, worth more than £120 billion in 2008. training and then signing on again, which could result The construction industry is very much one of small in administrative delays and, in turn, in their being out enterprises. In fact, there are approximately 1 million of pocket. Simply suspending jobseeker’s allowance construction enterprises in this country, some 85 per instead of requiring people to come off it and then go cent. of which are sole proprietorships. The industry back on it again would help to give people confidence has been severely affected by the recession. In the that the scheme could help them. I hope that the 12 months to this June, some 82,000 jobs, or 3.6 per Government will consider such simple measures. cent. of the construction work force, were lost. While I want to draw the House’s attention to one further output in the economy as a whole fell by 5.1 per cent. in example from my constituency that highlights the group the third quarter of 2009, output in construction fell by of people I spoke about at the beginning—those who some 13 per cent. It is clear that the construction do not register on the radar in terms of unemployment industry is being affected severely and disproportionately, numbers but are in a very difficult situation. Two of my and the industry sees very little cause for optimism that constituents, Mrs. Blight and Mrs. Bennetts, have worked the position will improve. Last month, the Construction in a factory in Falmouth for 19 years; they are long-term, Products Association forecast that construction output full-time employees. Since 6 July this year, the entire would fall by as much as 15 per cent. this year and a work force has been on a three-day week instead of further 2 per cent. next year. Indeed, it forecast that we 40 hours a week, and their incomes have nearly halved. would not arrive back at 2007 levels of output until They approached me to ask what I could do to help. 2021. Clearly, the construction industry is in a severely This is an extract from their e-mail: worrying condition, and urgent action is needed on the part of the Government. “After making several phone calls we find we are not entitled to anything to help people in this situation. The company can Frankly, what the industry needs more than anything continue to keep us ona3dayweekindefinitely; we cannot else is access to cash, because banks are notorious for request redundancy because we work more than half the week, no not lending to construction companies at all at the tax credits because we do not work more than 30 hours and no moment. I hear repeatedly in my constituency the complaint job seekers allowance because we work more than 16 hours.” that it is almost impossible to start a new development, They are in a Catch-22 situation. They are low-income because of a lack of access to credit. The Government workers—basically, on the minimum wage—who are in have put some measures in place, but frankly they are a stable job and suffering genuine financial hardship. small-scale compared with the level of the problem, and Again, there is no real help now for those people. they are somewhat timid. The enterprise finance guarantee scheme, for example, is worth only £1.3 billion in total, I ask the Minister to explain that situation. These which is far too small a figure to make any significant people will not appear in unemployment statistics, but impact on the industry as a whole. The trade credit they are being hit hard by the current economic climate. insurance top-up scheme, according to recent surveys, They are the kind of people whose experiences need to has been taken up by only 1 per cent. of construction be understood and properly addressed. Their circumstances companies. Overall, measures put in place by the are glaringly obvious at a local level, but they get lost as Government have done little or nothing to alleviate the they are passed up the line to central Government, who plight of the industry. With the pre-Budget report are unable to respond on the scale that is needed, often impending, I entreat the Government to give urgent on an individual or tailored basis. These people need a consideration to the Conservative party’s proposals for response and support that can be put in place quickly, a proper, large-scale, £50 billion national loan guarantee and that is flexible and can change according to different scheme. That is the type of scheme that is required to needs on the ground. That can be done much more make any significant impact on the plight of the building easily at a local level than from centrally driven industry. Departments. In north Wales, the industry is of considerable That is why I find the Queen’s Speech so disappointing. importance. Indeed, it is traditionally the most important Surely now more than ever we should have had further industry in the region. In the whole of Wales, some moves on devolving powers and spending to a more 45,000 people are employed in construction. I therefore local level so that local authorities and other local wish to touch on the importance of the coherent agencies have the power and resource at hand to provide development of building regulations. It is a matter of help where and when it is needed. Instead, we have a Bill great concern that at this difficult time for the construction with no mention of any localist agenda whatever. My industry the Welsh Assembly Government have seen fit frustration is that at the very time when we needed to make an application to the UK Government for a localism to receive support and be driven forward, it transfer of functions order to enable them to have 779 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 780 control of the building regulations system in Wales. approach to the deficit. I shall give one more quote. That has caused immense concern in the Welsh building This is someone quoted in The Times on 18 November: industry, principally because it, like the rest of the UK “I think it is important though to recognise that if we keep on building industry, is now aiming to achieve the UK adding to the debt, even in the midst of this recovery, that at some Government’s target of zero carbon emissions by 2016, point, people could lose confidence in the…economy in a way which in itself is a highly ambitious target. that could actually lead to a double-dip recession”. The Welsh Assembly Government, however, are seeking That was President Obama speaking about the US to bring the target forward to 2013. The response that I economy, which has already started to emerge from have had from constituents of mine engaged in construction recession, unlike our own. is that, if that happens, it will have a devastating effect President Obama is right to point to those concerns. on the north Wales construction industry. North Wales However, they are particularly pertinent in the case of builders will simply hit the A55 an hour earlier and start our economy because we are faced with the worst constructing in the north of England, and there will be underlying, structural debt of any of the major OECD a migration of skills out of north Wales. I entreat the economies. As my hon. Friend the shadow Chancellor Minister to confirm in his response that he will have said earlier, that is giving rise to serious questions about words with the Welsh Assembly Government and put whether the Government can maintain our credit rating, pressure on them to ensure that the new building regulations which is so fundamental to future projections for servicing are adopted coherently and contemporaneously. this monumental debt with which we are now saddled. Some credit rating agencies have warned that we are starting to appear on their watch lists. The Government 5.25 pm need to be immensely careful about that. Mr. Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con): I am grateful for In the remaining minute before the winding-up speeches, this opportunity to come in at the end of our response I want to refer to one of the burdens that the Government to the Gracious Speech. I would like to concentrate on are imposing on small businesses, which will be the two features. First, it seems incredible that the Queen’s engine of our economic recovery. It is the revaluation of Speech was virtually devoid of any mention of the state business rates, which is due to come into force next of the public finances. I appreciate that the pre-Budget April. By picking a revaluation at the peak of commercial report is only two weeks away, but there was precious rental valuations in April 2008, the Government, if they little mention of the finances, with the exception of the proceed with the revaluation—I sincerely hope that suggestion of a fiscal responsibility Bill. However, I give they will think again and follow the example of the as little credence to that measure as do the professional Northern Ireland Executive and scrap it, as we have commentators who have chosen to speak on the subject. urged them to do—will lock businesses into historic high rating valuation methods for the next five years. In a press release this month, the Institute for Fiscal Studies stated that Although there will be some winners, there will be many significant losers. What it means to people in “it is far from clear why investors and voters should be any more rural areas such as the one that I represent is shown in a impressed by this [the Fiscal Responsibility Act] than they were by the Code for Fiscal Stability, which was enshrined in statute message that I received from the proprietor of a filling with much fanfare in 1998… Yet by early 2007, well before the station with the only general store in my local village. current crisis—the Financial Times’ annual survey of City and He is faced with a rating bill increase from £4,650 to academic economists found that ‘almost none use the Chancellor’s £26,000 a year—a 459 per cent. increase. It takes him fiscal rules any more as an indication of the health of the public over the threshold for transitional relief and he therefore finances.’”. has no prospect of any relief on that. I urge the Minister That was before the public finances got into today’s dire to think again carefully about introducing the rating state. revaluation at such a critical time for the British economy. We find ourselves in an economy in which £1 in every £4 spent by the Government is borrowed, and I suspect 5.31 pm that we will establish in two weeks that the Government’s Mr. Kenneth Clarke (Rushcliffe) (Con): My hon. Friend estimates for borrowing have been massively overshot. the Member for Cities of London and Westminster The Government told us at the time of the Budget—hon. (Mr. Field) described the fag end of a Parliament that Members have referred to this figure—that we will be we are undoubtedly in at the moment. As we all know, borrowing £175 billion in the current year. Last week, we have reached the stage whereby the Government are however, on the back of the announcement of the pointlessly going into a last six months because they September monthly borrowing figures, the IFS indicated cannot call an election with any confidence of winning that public debt could exceed that figure by a further at the time that they normally would. We therefore have £42 billion this year. We could be looking, therefore, at to fill the time, and in this particular Parliament, that is a figure of £217 billion of public debt. The figures are not a pretty sight. almost incomprehensible and impossible for us to get The death of a Government is never a pretty sight our minds around, yet the Government seem to be and the Government have decided that they are near oblivious to the fact that it is happening. All they have death, but they are desperately trying to find some good said is, “Well, we’ll set up a law to prevent it from political lines in the Queen’s Speech that might give happening again,” without introducing any credible them a last chance and hope. That is bad for a political measures for doing so. system that is in disarray and discredited, and appallingly It is not just people on the Opposition Benches and bad when we are in the deepest economic crisis that external economists commenting on such matters in anyone living in this country has ever experienced and this country who are saying those things. Other significant when it is urgently necessary to have some leadership figures around the world are concerned about that and decisions. That is a sad background to the debate. 781 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 782

[Mr. Kenneth Clarke] The Chancellor tried to explain why the recession has been particularly deep here and what it was that caused It has happened before. We have had fag-end Parliaments it to be so bad, making us lag behind the field in getting and doomed Governments; I have been in them, seen out of recession into growth. There are some very good them—going, going, gone—but we have never had one reasons. He gave one himself—that the financial services behave in this way. When the Wilson Government were industry was a particularly large part of our economy—but coming to their end in 1970, the dafter members of that that is only part of the story. The other feature here, as Government thought that Roy Jenkins should introduce others have said, is that the housing market went through a giveaway, reckless Budget to save them, but he did a bigger bubble here even than in places like Ireland, not. He gave an extremely responsible Budget, which Spain or the United States, which also suffered from the won the plaudits of history if not the thanks of all his problem. The level of household debt in proportion to colleagues at the time. The Callaghan Government, gross domestic product was higher here than it was in coming to their inevitable end in 1979, continued with the United States, but all that was tolerated and all the the public spending cuts that were necessary to get out warnings were ignored by the Government. of the last very deep fiscal crisis that we experienced, The level of public debt in this country is more severe which had caused them to go to the IMF. I did not than that of most other countries in the developed think that we had much chance of electoral success world because our public finances were in a mess under when we faced the prospect of the 1997 election, but my the previous Chancellor before the credit crunch was last Budget was responsible—there were no poisoned even thought of or had even started. It is on top of that pills in it. Indeed, the Opposition supported and adopted that the vast sums of money had to be put in to rescue my fiscal judgments. So straightforward were they that the banks. That is why the rest of the field is moving the Blair Government, keeping their promise to stick to away from us, with everyone else moving into feeble my figures for three years, took us on to growth with growth. We are still behind and the debt remains one of low inflation and, eventually, a budget surplus, showing the handicaps around our neck that makes this country that it was possible for the political system to rise to move forward slower; it will make our growth more great events. feeble and slower unless it starts to be tackled now. What a contrast with the current Prime Minister and There is a direct link between the two. Government. We have a concoction of Bills—I suspect Other Members have talked about the problem. My that all the responsible Ministers hope that they will not hon. Friends the Members for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh) get on to the statute book to embarrass any future and for Mid-Worcestershire (Peter Luff) touched on it, Government—and an extraordinary attempt to try to and the problems of financing it were graphically described find some dividing lines on which to fight the election by several hon. Members. At the moment, we are financing politically. We had Tory cuts v. Labour investment, but this debt because the Governor of the Bank of England that has been modified. We ought to have a serious is printing money and is the principal purchaser of the debate about the relationship between the prospects for debt. We are monetising the new debt, which we would growth and those for getting over the problem of debt. never have dreamed of doing. The Governor of the It is not a choice between going for growth and tackling Bank of England would never have dreamed of doing it the debt. Tackling the debt is a precondition of getting either unless the crisis had been so bad. That cannot go back to growth at any sensible or normal level. The on indefinitely. Prime Minister’s attempts to drive us apart on that are As was said earlier, foreigners will eventually have to absurd. finance the debt. As my hon. Friend the Member for It has always been, I think, the holy grail of economic Cities of London and Westminster explained clearly, policy in Britain to go for growth with low inflation. with the level of debt being run up by other developed Nowadays we should make that sustainable growth countries, we have to persuade people to have confidence with low inflation, which we did for a period in the ’90s in this country to buy sterling-denominated assets and and the early part of this century. Of course that to finance our debt at an affordable price. Several remains the objective on this side; we are putting forward Members warned about the rising level of debt interest what we are putting forward because we realise that as part of the public debt. Of course, as interest rates growth is the way back to prosperity and that growth are brought back to a more normal level, if we are will eventually put this country back on its feet. Our driven to higher interest rates because we have to sell policies give a greater promise that the flickering level of our gilts and have to get somebody to accept the risk of growth, which the Chancellor thinks we might see at the financing our debt, we will find our economy slowed end of this year, can within a reasonable time—after down by rising interest rates and the cost of servicing some tough and necessary measures—be turned into the debt will go up, perhaps leading us into a debt trap. I normal growth and get us back to a prospect where will not go on. trend growth of 2.5 per cent. starts looking like the It is against that background that we have seen the likely basis for sustainable growth again. utterly comic complacency of a Prime Minister who We are in the longest and deepest recession we can would not accept that we were going into recession, recall. The hon. Member for Sunderland, South who told us we were better prepared than any other (Mr. Mullin) reminded me of its origins, which are now country and who then said that talk of drastic measures behind us, and many of those origins were here in this boldly set out by my hon. Friend the Member for country and governed by his Government. He is quite Tatton (Mr. Osborne) at the Conservative party conference right, however, that the hubris of bankers in the City of was somehow a threat to the country’s future. All that is London rivalled that in Wall street. Our particular irresponsible in the extreme. regulatory system, devised by the present Prime Minister, I strongly suspect that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, turned out to be completely and utterly useless, and this doing his best when he started, knows that perfectly was the major cause of the depth of the recession here. well. There was a bit of a contrast between the emphasis 783 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 784 he put in his speech and what is meant to be the main they have not halved the deficit in four years’ time, thrust of the election campaign being masterminded by somebody will be summonsed. It is not even clear who my opposite number, when he has time between his will be held responsible. Will it be whichever hapless other duties in another place, and that being put together soul is the Chancellor of the Exchequer? Could it be the skilfully by the Secretary of State for Children, Schools present Chancellor of the Exchequer, who, I think, and Families, the Prime Minister and the people who would be entitled to say that his predecessor, if anybody, rather resent the Chancellor still being in his role. Perhaps should be the person subject to legal sanction? The Bill that explains the difference, shall we say, in tone. is a ludicrous proposition, and is designed to give The other big problem, to which I have no time to do reassurance where there is no substance. This justice, but to which Members from all parties referred, Government—new Labour—came in on the basis of all is the overwhelming one of credit, which, in the short style and no substance. They still have no substance, term, has not been solved. It is perceived rightly as the and the style has become shoddier as we near the end. biggest threat to the continued existence of some of our I am a great fan of Benjamin Disraeli, and I looked medium and small-sized businesses, and certainly to up a passage that I often quote slightly inaccurately. any prospect of growth for most of them in the near Denouncing the dying Government of Mr. Gladstone future. At the beginning of the year, the Government in the early 1870s, Disraeli—he was about my age then, brought out streams of schemes and measures to tackle and sustained himself with a very large amount of the credit markets. I refer Members only to that part of liquor while making his three-hour speech in Manchester; the speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Tatton in only water is sustaining me—used a very grand phrase. which he named some of those schemes, which turned He said: out, in practice, to be trivial in their consequence, in “The ministers remind me of one of those marine landscapes contrast to the fanfare surrounding them when they not very unusual on the coast of South America. You behold a were the initiative of the day. range of exhausted volcanoes. Not a flame flickers on a single We put forward our broad-brush loan guarantee pallid crest.” scheme, which would have been a bolder, simpler approach. That quotation is not really suitable for today’s debate, When and if we take office, depending on the state of however. These Ministers could not be described as the credit markets at the time, some bold action to get volcanoes. They were merely foothills when they started. the credit markets going and to encourage banks to The Queen’s Speech shows that they are finished, and it take more risk than they are taking at present with is a pity that they go out on such a low note. small and medium-sized business, will be essential. The Government have failed. 5.56 pm On the wider front, we have touched on the key subjects. When the Minister for Business, Innovation The Minister for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr. Pat and Skills winds up, I hope that he will give some McFadden): Let me begin by congratulating the right explanation of why the Government have abandoned hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke) deregulatory budgeting, which we propose, alongside on what, as we learned earlier, was his first winding-up sunset clauses for the regulatory bodies. In my opinion, speech in a debate of this kind for some 20 years. I Tony Blair was genuinely enthusiastic about deregulation believe that he was recently awarded the “Best Newcomer” when he took office, and wanted to reduce the costs and award by The Spectator, and I congratulate him on that burdens for business. He had been sold on that policy. as well. Perhaps the Department for Business, Innovation As Prime Minister, however, he had no time and was and Skills is the arena for comeback kids. If so, the right not a great man for detail, and the matter got away from hon. and learned Gentleman is most welcome. him. It has totally fizzled out, and the Government have Today’s debate has focused on the parts of the Gracious no deregulatory proposals, but we will have such proposals, Speech that are about recovery from the recession and because lifting the burden from business will be essential. establishing the foundations of future prosperity and Tax proposals have been put forward by my hon. economic growth. A number of Members have spoken, Friend the Member for Tatton. On employment and raising issues relating to Government debt, banks and skills, we are addressing the comprehensive programme access to credit for small businesses, and Government put together by David Freud and developed by all support schemes. I shall deal with those issues later, but teams on the shadow Front Bench, in order to ensure one or two Members also raised issues specifically that the huge problem, especially for the 1 million involving their constituencies. young people who are in a labour market that has no My right hon. Friend the Member for Knowsley, jobs, can be tackled effectively by the incoming Government. North and Sefton, East (Mr. Howarth) spoke with great Lastly, I will touch on the one matter to which the passion about a planning application in his constituency Chancellor hardly referred, and which sums up the which has been turned down. I hesitate to comment on cynical approach of the leadership of the Labour party, individual planning applications, but I am sure that the and such part of the party that still follows that leadership, attention of the Secretary of State for Communities in presenting this Queen’s Speech. I refer to the fiscal and Local Government has been drawn to my right responsibility Bill. My hon. Friends the Members for hon. Friend’s speech. The one thing that I will say, and I Clwyd, West (Mr. Jones) and for Ludlow (Mr. Dunne) hope I am not going too far in saying it, is that when were rather kind in their strictures on the matter. I think such circumstances arise—and I understand that the it is quite the most preposterous measure brought before Secretary of State’s recommendation was made on the the House for a very long time. A Government who advice of inspectors, not against it—sometimes an altered, have absolutely no policy proposals to control the largest or amended, application can present a way through the deficit in the developed world, with a huge structural logjam. I hope that discussions will continue between deficit at its heart, give us the reassuring news that if my right hon. Friend, his local council and the Department. 785 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 786

[Mr. Pat McFadden] the financial services sector; we have also looked beyond the recession to the jobs and industries of the future, to Let me now turn to the main issue that is before us. ensure that there is national capability in key areas and The way in which we secure—[Interruption.] to equip people to do the jobs that the changes will bring. Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): Order. I A number of Members, particularly those on the am sorry to interrupt the Minister, but there is far too Labour Benches, spoke about the importance of much conversation going on. This is the climax of the manufacturing and the digital economy. Time after debate on the Queen’s Speech, and the Minister should time in recent months, we have made announcements be heard. and allocated funds in these areas of future opportunity. The low-carbon industrial strategy, launched with our Mr. McFadden: Labour Members, at least, believe colleagues in the Department of Energy and Climate that how we secure future prosperity and growth is Change, set out support of up to £120 million for important. It matters to every family and every community offshore wind, up to £60 million for wave and tidal in the country. People in the country have felt the pain power and £19 million for the nuclear supply chain. of the downturn, and now they want to know about the There is support, too, for aerospace, printed electronics economic future. They want to know how our industries and electric vehicle-charging infrastructure, and today are to recover, and how people are to be equipped for my noble Friend the Secretary of State announced over the jobs of tomorrow. £20 million to establish a national composites centre in My right hon. Friend the Chancellor set out the Bristol and a competition to make sure we succeed in response that the Government had made to the crisis. these technologies that are so important to our economy. My right hon. Friend the Member for Stirling None of this would have come from a Government (Mrs. McGuire) drew our attention to the enormity of determined to cut support in the middle of a recession. the decisions that were made, particularly just over a year ago when the banks were nearing collapse. I think Mr. Graham Stuart: May I take the Minister back to that we are in danger of taking that for granted. One of the issue of the Lloyds-HBOS merger? It was right to my hon. Friends referred to timidity and a limited make the covert loans, but it was wrong for the Government response. I really do not think that the unprecedented to lean on the directors of Lloyds and encourage them intervention in the banking system a year ago can be to merge with the other company when they could not characterised as a timid or limited response. The decision tell their shareholders the truth about the financial state to intervene on such a scale to shore up the banking of that other company. system was a huge decision, and whatever the consequences and the difficulties now are for businesses and home owners—and they do exist—the consequences of not Mr. McFadden: I simply disagree with the hon. taking such action and allowing the system to collapse, Gentleman’s account of events, and I refer him back to which was the alternative, would have been absolutely what I said on that subject a few moments ago. catastrophic for the people whom we represent. There is all this emphasis on industry as well as finance because we on this side of the House believe the Mr. Redwood: Why then did the Government propose best way out of the recession is to foster pro-growth the merger between HBOS and Lloyds, making the policies. Growth is the best antidote to debt. Growth banking rescue dearer and more difficult? will get industry back on its feet, will get orders moving again for services and manufacturing alike and, crucially, Mr. McFadden: It was the companies who came will get people back to work. However, throughout the together; the Government did not force that merger. entire economic downturn, the official Opposition said we could not afford to take the action we took. The All around the world, other Governments did things Leader of the Opposition called this a new age of similar to what we were doing in terms of fiscal stimulus, austerity. He said the Government should have started but the Leader of the Opposition said: reducing their spending plans last year; he said that “We were against the fiscal stimulus”. should happen He and his shadow Chancellor argued for public spending “right now. Not next year, not after the election—now.” to be cut back just when the country needed it most. His shadow Chancellor followed that up by making a The taxpayer has saved the financial system, and the speech at the Conservative party conference that never Financial Services Bill focuses on the need for responsibility mentioned growth once. in the financial services industry in return for the commitment given by the taxpayer. The Bill will make it The problem for the Conservative party is that clear that we want a strong financial services sector, but ideologically it cannot see a role for Government in also that it has to behave in a way that acknowledges the fostering growth. Even after the events of the past two support given by taxpayers and the obligation to them, years—after the recession has hurt communities across rather than in a way that flouts that support or acts the country and after all that has happened with the irresponsibly with other people’s money. banks—the Conservatives have identified the biggest problem facing the country not as the irresponsibility in Like my right hon. Friend the Chancellor, my noble the banking system or the consequences that followed, Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation but as “big government”. They told us that the age of and Skills has welcomed the Walker report and has austerity was dawning. asked the Financial Reporting Council to take forward the work on engagement by institutional investors. However, our response to the recession has not just been about Mr. Pelling: Will the Minister give way? 787 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 788

Mr. McFadden: I really do not have time, and I want Apart from that, all we get is the scorecard on our to make progress. initiatives. We have launched a number of schemes to The Tories told us that big government was the get lending moving and to support manufacturing, such problem, and that it must be cut down to size. The as the enterprise finance guarantee, which has provided nation could only wonder where the Tory axe would £660 million to 6,500 businesses. Some 150,000 businesses fall. That was true until last weekend, when suddenly, have been helped by the time-to-pay tax initiative. faced with the public’s emerging view of this age of Question put, That the amendment be made. austerity, it dimmed from our view. It was obscured by The House divided: Ayes 226, Noes 319. the desperate screeching of brakes as the Leader of the Opposition made a hand-brake turn to talk about growth, Division No. 3] [5.59 pm after all those months of silence. That desperate change of direction did not communicate a genuine desire for AYES growth; all the switching around has simply communicated Afriyie, Adam Fallon, Mr. Michael confusion, uncertainty and risk in relation to the Ainsworth, Mr. Peter Farron, Tim Conservative party’s plans. That matters, because getting Alexander, Danny Featherstone, Lynne the judgment on this wrong could set back growth and Amess, Mr. David Field, Mr. Mark cost the country even more in the future. Having got it Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James Foster, Mr. Don wrong on the recession the Tories are now getting it Atkinson, Mr. Peter Francois, Mr. Mark wrong on the recovery. Their obsession with seeing Bacon, Mr. Richard Fraser, Christopher Baldry, Tony Gale, Mr. Roger government as the problem has hobbled them and Barker, Gregory Garnier, Mr. Edward prevented them from forming a coherent response to Baron, Mr. John Gauke, Mr. David the crisis that we have been going through. Barrett, John George, Andrew Of course the country wants to reduce debt incurred Beith, rh Sir Alan Gibb, Mr. Nick as a result of the recession, and the Bill that we set out Bellingham, Mr. Henry Gidley, Sandra on this subject in the Queen’s Speech commits us to Benyon, Mr. Richard Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl doing so. However, we have to do so at a time and in a Beresford, Sir Paul Goldsworthy, Julia manner that fosters growth and supports recovery, not Binley, Mr. Brian Goodman, Mr. Paul that threatens to kill it off before it gets off the ground. Blunt, Mr. Crispin Goodwill, Mr. Robert That was the precise point made this week by Bone, Mr. Peter Gove, Michael Boswell, Mr. Tim Gray, Mr. James Mr. Dominique Strauss-Kahn of the International Bottomley, Peter Greening, Justine Monetary Fund, who said of the timetable for stimulus Brady, Mr. Graham Greenway, Mr. John withdrawal: Brake, Tom Grieve, Mr. Dominic “We recommend erring on the side of caution, as exiting too Brazier, Mr. Julian Gummer, rh Mr. John early is costlier than exiting too late”. Breed, Mr. Colin Hammond, Mr. Philip In the same vein, the Engineering Employers Federation Brokenshire, James Hammond, Stephen said this week that a squeeze on public spending should Brooke, Annette Hancock, Mr. Mike not start until there is “demonstrable evidence” that Browne, Mr. Jeremy Hands, Mr. Greg economic recovery is secure, and that premature action Browning, Angela Harper, Mr. Mark Bruce, rh Malcolm Harris, Dr. Evan would risk Burns, Mr. Simon Harvey, Nick “pulling the rug out from companies just as growth looks set to Burrowes, Mr. David Hayes, Mr. John return”. Burstow, Mr. Paul Heath, Mr. David If the Tories’ problem on fiscal policy is one of Burt, Lorely Heathcoat-Amory, rh judgment, their problem on industrial policy is one of Cable, Dr. Vincent Mr. David silence. Again, the right hon. and learned Member for Cameron, rh Mr. David Hemming, John Rushcliffe had nothing to say about future industrial Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Hendry, Charles opportunities for the country, nothing to say about the Carmichael, Mr. Alistair Herbert, Nick Carswell, Mr. Douglas Hoban, Mr. Mark shift from a high-carbon economy to a low-carbon one, Cash, Mr. William Hogg, rh Mr. Douglas and nothing to say about the digital information revolution. Chope, Mr. Christopher Hollobone, Mr. Philip The only two policies that I have heard from the Clappison, Mr. James Holloway, Mr. Adam Conservative party in two years of debating with him Clarke, rh Mr. Kenneth Holmes, Paul about this are getting rid of the regional development Clegg, rh Mr. Nick Horam, Mr. John agencies, which are business led and are having an effect Cormack, Sir Patrick Horwood, Martin in our regions, and cutting capital allowances to companies Cox, Mr. Geoffrey Howard, rh Mr. Michael seeking to invest for recovery. Crabb, Mr. Stephen Howarth, David Can the Conservatives confirm that their policy on Curry, rh Mr. David Howarth, Mr. Gerald Davey, Mr. Edward Howell, John capital allowances would mean that a company investing Davies, David T.C. Huhne, Chris £l million per year would get almost £90,000 more tax (Monmouth) Hunt, Mr. Jeremy relief on that investment in the first year under the Davies, Philip Hunter, Mark current Government system than under the plans that Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan Hurd, Mr. Nick they want to introduce? Can they further confirm that a Dorries, Nadine Jack, rh Mr. Michael small firm investing £50,000 would get £9,000 more tax Duncan, Alan Jackson, Mr. Stewart relief on that investment in the first year under this Dunne, Mr. Philip Jenkin, Mr. Bernard Government’s system than under the proposals that Ellwood, Mr. Tobias Jones, Mr. David they advocate? Theirs is not a plan to support recovery; Evans, Mr. Nigel Kawczynski, Daniel it is a plan to withdraw tax relief from the investments Evennett, Mr. David Keetch, Mr. Paul necessary for a recovery. Fabricant, Michael Key, Robert 789 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 790

Kirkbride, Miss Julie Rowen, Paul Betts, Mr. Clive Flynn, Paul Knight, rh Mr. Greg Ruffley, Mr. David Blackman, Liz Follett, Barbara Kramer, Susan Russell, Bob Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta Foster, Mr. Michael Laing, Mrs. Eleanor Sanders, Mr. Adrian Blears, rh Hazel (Worcester) Lait, Mrs. Jacqui Scott, Mr. Lee Blizzard, Mr. Bob Foster, Michael Jabez Lancaster, Mr. Mark Selous, Andrew Borrow, Mr. David S. (Hastings and Rye) Leech, Mr. John Shapps, Grant Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben Francis, Dr. Hywel Leigh, Mr. Edward Shepherd, Mr. Richard Brennan, Kevin Gapes, Mike Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver Simmonds, Mark Brown, Lyn George, rh Mr. Bruce Lewis, Dr. Julian Simpson, David Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas Gerrard, Mr. Neil Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian Simpson, Mr. Keith Brown, Mr. Russell Gilroy, Linda Lidington, Mr. David Smith, Sir Robert Bryant, Chris Goggins, rh Paul Lilley, rh Mr. Peter Soames, Mr. Nicholas Buck, Ms Karen Goodman, Helen Loughton, Tim Spelman, Mrs. Caroline Burden, Richard Griffith, Nia Luff, Peter Spicer, Sir Michael Burgon, Colin Griffiths, Nigel Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew Spring, Mr. Richard Burnham, rh Andy Gwynne, Andrew Maclean, rh David Stanley, rh Sir John Butler, Ms Dawn Hain, rh Mr. Peter Main, Anne Steen, Mr. Anthony Byers, rh Mr. Stephen Hall, Mr. Mike Malins, Mr. Humfrey Streeter, Mr. Gary Byrne, rh Mr. Liam Hall, Patrick Maples, Mr. John Stuart, Mr. Graham Caborn, rh Mr. Richard Hamilton, Mr. David Maude, rh Mr. Francis Stunell, Andrew Cairns, David Hamilton, Mr. Fabian May, rh Mrs. Theresa Swayne, Mr. Desmond Campbell, Mr. Alan Hanson, rh Mr. David McCrea, Dr. William Swinson, Jo Campbell, Mr. Ronnie Harman, rh Ms Harriet McIntosh, Miss Anne Swire, Mr. Hugo Caton, Mr. Martin Harris, Mr. Tom McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick Syms, Mr. Robert Cawsey, Mr. Ian Havard, Mr. Dai Mercer, Patrick Tapsell, Sir Peter Challen, Colin Healey, rh John Miller, Mrs. Maria Taylor, Mr. Ian Chapman, Ben Henderson, Mr. Doug Milton, Anne Taylor, Matthew Chaytor, Mr. David Hendrick, Mr. Mark Mitchell, Mr. Andrew Teather, Sarah Clapham, Mr. Michael Hepburn, Mr. Stephen Moore, Mr. Michael Thurso, John Clark, Ms Katy Heppell, Mr. John Moss, Mr. Malcolm Turner, Mr. Andrew Clark, Paul Hesford, Stephen Mulholland, Greg Tyrie, Mr. Andrew Clarke, rh Mr. Charles Heyes, David Mundell, David Vaizey, Mr. Edward Clarke,rhMr.Tom Hill, rh Keith Murrison, Dr. Andrew Vara, Mr. Shailesh Clelland, Mr. David Hillier, Meg Neill, Robert Villiers, Mrs. Theresa Coaker, Mr. Vernon Hodge, rh Margaret O’Brien, Mr. Stephen Walker, Mr. Charles Coffey, Ann Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon Oaten, Mr. Mark Wallace, Mr. Ben Connarty, Michael Hood, Mr. Jim Öpik, Lembit Watkinson, Angela Cooper, Rosie Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey Osborne, Mr. George Webb, Steve Cooper, rh Yvette Hope, Phil Ottaway, Richard Whittingdale, Mr. John Corbyn, Jeremy Hosie, Stewart Paice, Mr. James Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann Cousins, Jim Howarth, rh Mr. George Paisley, rh Rev. Ian Wiggin, Bill Crausby, Mr. David Howells, rh Dr. Kim Pelling, Mr. Andrew Willetts, Mr. David Cruddas, Jon Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay Penning, Mike Williams, Mark Cryer, Mrs. Ann Humble, Mrs. Joan Penrose, John Williams, Mr. Roger Cunningham, Mr. Jim Hutton, rh Mr. John Pickles, Mr. Eric Williams, Stephen Cunningham, Tony Iddon, Dr. Brian Illsley, Mr. Eric Prisk, Mr. Mark Willis, Mr. Phil Darling, rh Mr. Alistair Pritchard, Mark Ingram, rh Mr. Adam Willott, Jenny David, Mr. Wayne Randall, Mr. John Irranca-Davies, Huw Winterton, Ann Davidson, Mr. Ian Redwood, rh Mr. John Jackson, Glenda Winterton, Sir Nicholas Dean, Mrs. Janet Reid, Mr. Alan James, Mrs. Siân C. Yeo, Mr. Tim Denham, rh Mr. John Rennie, Willie Jenkins, Mr. Brian Young, rh Sir George Robathan, Mr. Andrew Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit Johnson, Ms Diana R. Younger-Ross, Richard Robertson, Hugh Dismore, Mr. Andrew Jones, Helen Robertson, Mr. Laurence Tellers for the Ayes: Dobbin, Jim Jones, Mr. Kevan Rogerson, Dan Mr. Rob Wilson and Dobson, rh Frank Jones, Lynne Rosindell, Andrew James Duddridge Donohoe, Mr. Brian H. Jones, Mr. Martyn Doran, Mr. Frank Joyce, Mr. Eric Dowd, Jim NOES Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Eagle, Angela Keeble, Ms Sally Abbott, Ms Diane Baird, Vera Eagle, Maria Keeley, Barbara Ainger, Nick Banks, Gordon Efford, Clive Keen, Alan Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob Barlow, Ms Celia Ellman, Mrs. Louise Keen, Ann Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas Barron, rh Mr. Kevin Engel, Natascha Kelly, rh Ruth Allen, Mr. Graham Battle, rh John Ennis, Jeff Kemp, Mr. Fraser Anderson, Mr. David Bayley, Hugh Etherington, Bill Kennedy, rh Jane Anderson, Janet Beckett, rh Margaret Farrelly, Paul Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq Atkins, Charlotte Begg, Miss Anne Field, rh Mr. Frank Kidney, Mr. David Austin, Mr. Ian Bell, Sir Stuart Fisher, Mark Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter Austin, John Benn, rh Hilary Fitzpatrick, Jim Knight, rh Jim Bailey, Mr. Adrian Benton, Mr. Joe Flello, Mr. Robert Kumar, Dr. Ashok Bain, Mr. William Berry, Roger Flint, rh Caroline Lammy, rh Mr. David 791 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 792

Laxton, Mr. Bob Prosser, Gwyn Wills, rh Mr. Michael Wright, David Lazarowicz, Mark Purchase, Mr. Ken Wilson, Phil Wright, Mr. Iain Lepper, David Purnell, rh James Winnick, Mr. David Wright, Dr. Tony Levitt, Tom Rammell, Bill Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Wyatt, Derek Lewis, Mr. Ivan Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick Wood, Mike Linton, Martin Reed, Mr. Andy Woodward, rh Mr. Shaun Tellers for the Noes: Lloyd, Tony Reed, Mr. Jamie Woolas, Mr. Phil Kerry McCarthy and Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn Reid, rh John Wright, Mr. Anthony Mary Creagh Love, Mr. Andrew Robertson, John Lucas, Ian Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey Question accordingly negatived. Mackinlay, Andrew Rooney, Mr. Terry MacNeil, Mr. Angus Roy, Mr. Frank Amendment proposed: at the end of the Question to MacShane, rh Mr. Denis Roy, Lindsay add: Mactaggart, Fiona Ruane, Chris “but humbly regret that the Gracious Speech fails to provide Mallaber, Judy Ruddock, Joan proposals for constituents to recall hon. Members for misconduct, Mann, John Russell, Christine to provide for a code of financial conduct for candidates at Marris, Rob Ryan, rh Joan the next general election so that the public can understand the Marsden, Mr. Gordon Salter, Martin financial affairs of those they are voting for, to complete the Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert Sarwar, Mr. Mohammad reform of the House of Lords to ensure that only people who Martlew, Mr. Eric Seabeck, Alison have been democratically elected have power to make law, to Mason, John Sharma, Mr. Virendra reform party funding to ensure that the influence of large corporate donations is removed, to fix the length of the parliamentary term McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas Shaw, Jonathan Sheridan, Jim so that the date of a general election is known years in advance, to McCabe, Steve provide a Citizens’ Assembly to agree a new voting system for McCarthy-Fry, Sarah Simon, Mr. Siôn Singh, Mr. Marsha parliamentary elections and fundamentally to review the procedures McCartney, rh Mr. Ian of this House to strengthen the power of backbenchers, reduce Skinner, Mr. Dennis McDonagh, Siobhain the power of the whips and ensure that the business of the House Slaughter, Mr. Andy McDonnell, John is organised transparently in a formal committee of the House.”— Smith, rh Mr. Andrew McFadden, rh Mr. Pat (Mr. Burstow.) Smith, Ms Angela C. McFall, rh John (Sheffield, Hillsborough) Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 33), That McGovern, Mr. Jim Smith, Geraldine the amendment be made. McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne Smith, rh Jacqui The House divided: Ayes 64, Noes 469. McIsaac, Shona Smith, John McKechin, Ann Snelgrove, Anne Division No. 4] [6.14 pm McKenna, Rosemary Soulsby, Sir Peter McNulty, rh Mr. Tony Southworth, Helen AYES Meacher, rh Mr. Michael Spellar, rh Mr. John Alexander, Danny Leech, Mr. John Meale, Mr. Alan Starkey, Dr. Phyllis Barrett, John Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn Merron, Gillian Stewart, Ian Beith, rh Sir Alan MacNeil, Mr. Angus Michael, rh Alun Stoate, Dr. Howard Brake, Tom Mason, John Miliband, rh Edward Strang, rh Dr. Gavin Breed, Mr. Colin Moore, Mr. Michael Miller, Andrew Straw, rh Mr. Jack Brooke, Annette Mulholland, Greg Mitchell, Mr. Austin Stuart, Ms Gisela Browne, Mr. Jeremy Oaten, Mr. Mark Moffatt, Laura Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry Bruce, rh Malcolm Öpik, Lembit Mole, Chris Tami, Mark Burstow, Mr. Paul Pelling, Mr. Andrew Moon, Mrs. Madeleine Taylor, David Burt, Lorely Price, Adam Taylor, Dr. Richard Morden, Jessica Cable, Dr. Vincent Rennie, Willie Thomas, Mr. Gareth Morgan, Julie Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Rogerson, Dan Thornberry, Emily Mudie, Mr. George Carmichael, Mr. Alistair Rowen, Paul Timms, rh Mr. Stephen Mullin, Mr. Chris Clegg, rh Mr. Nick Russell, Bob Tipping, Paddy Munn, Meg Davey, Mr. Edward Sanders, Mr. Adrian Todd, Mr. Mark Farron, Tim Smith, Sir Robert Murphy, Mr. Denis Touhig, rh Mr. Don Featherstone, Lynne Stunell, Andrew Murphy, rh Mr. Jim Trickett, Jon Foster, Mr. Don Swinson, Jo Murphy, rh Mr. Paul Truswell, Mr. Paul George, Andrew Taylor, Matthew Naysmith, Dr. Doug Turner, Dr. Desmond Gidley, Sandra Taylor, Dr. Richard Norris, Dan Turner, Mr. Neil Goldsworthy, Julia Teather, Sarah O’Brien, rh Mr. Mike Twigg, Derek Hancock, Mr. Mike Thurso, John O’Hara, Mr. Edward Ussher, Kitty Harris, Dr. Evan Webb, Steve Olner, Mr. Bill Vaz, rh Keith Harvey, Nick Weir, Mr. Mike Osborne, Sandra Vis, Dr. Rudi Heath, Mr. David Williams, Hywel Owen, Albert Waltho, Lynda Hemming, John Williams, Mark Palmer, Dr. Nick Ward, Claire Holmes, Paul Williams, Stephen Pearson, Ian Wareing, Mr. Robert N. Horwood, Martin Willis, Mr. Phil Plaskitt, Mr. James Watson, Mr. Tom Hosie, Stewart Willott, Jenny Pope, Mr. Greg Watts, Mr. Dave Howarth, David Younger-Ross, Richard Pound, Stephen Weir, Mr. Mike Huhne, Chris Prentice, Bridget Whitehead, Dr. Alan Hunter, Mark Tellers for the Ayes: Prentice, Mr. Gordon Wicks, rh Malcolm Keetch, Mr. Paul Mr. Alan Reid and Prescott, rh Mr. John Williams, rh Mr. Alan Kramer, Susan Mr. Roger Williams Price, Adam Williams, Mrs. Betty Primarolo, rh Dawn Williams, Hywel 793 Debate on the Address26 NOVEMBER 2009 Debate on the Address 794

NOES Foster, Mr. Michael Hurd, Mr. Nick (Worcester) Hutton, rh Mr. John Abbott, Ms Diane Cash, Mr. William Foster, Michael Jabez Iddon, Dr. Brian Afriyie, Adam Caton, Mr. Martin (Hastings and Rye) Illsley, Mr. Eric Ainger, Nick Cawsey, Mr. Ian Francis, Dr. Hywel Ingram, rh Mr. Adam Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob Challen, Colin Francois, Mr. Mark Irranca-Davies, Huw Ainsworth, Mr. Peter Chapman, Ben Fraser, Christopher Jack, rh Mr. Michael Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas Chaytor, Mr. David Gale, Mr. Roger Jackson, Glenda Allen, Mr. Graham Chope, Mr. Christopher Gapes, Mike Jackson, Mr. Stewart Amess, Mr. David Clapham, Mr. Michael Gardiner, Barry James, Mrs. Siân C. Anderson, Mr. David Clappison, Mr. James Garnier, Mr. Edward Jenkin, Mr. Bernard Anderson, Janet Clark, Ms Katy Gauke, Mr. David Jenkins, Mr. Brian Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James Clark, Paul George, rh Mr. Bruce Johnson, Ms Diana R. Atkins, Charlotte Clarke, rh Mr. Charles Gerrard, Mr. Neil Jones, Mr. David Atkinson, Mr. Peter Clarke, rh Mr. Kenneth Gibb, Mr. Nick Jones, Helen Austin, Mr. Ian Clarke,rhMr.Tom Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl Jones, Mr. Kevan Austin, John Clelland, Mr. David Gilroy, Linda Jones, Mr. Martyn Bacon, Mr. Richard Coaker, Mr. Vernon Godsiff, Mr. Roger Jowell, rh Tessa Bailey, Mr. Adrian Coffey, Ann Goggins, rh Paul Joyce, Mr. Eric Bain, Mr. William Connarty, Michael Goodman, Helen Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Baird, Vera Cooper, Rosie Goodman, Mr. Paul Kawczynski, Daniel Baldry, Tony Cooper, rh Yvette Goodwill, Mr. Robert Keeble, Ms Sally Balls, rh Ed Cormack, Sir Patrick Gove, Michael Keeley, Barbara Banks, Gordon Cousins, Jim Gray, Mr. James Keen, Alan Barker, Gregory Cox, Mr. Geoffrey Greening, Justine Keen, Ann Barlow, Ms Celia Crabb, Mr. Stephen Greenway, Mr. John Kelly, rh Ruth Baron, Mr. John Crausby, Mr. David Grieve, Mr. Dominic Kemp, Mr. Fraser Barron, rh Mr. Kevin Cruddas, Jon Griffith, Nia Key, Robert Battle, rh John Cryer, Mrs. Ann Griffiths, Nigel Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq Bayley, Hugh Cunningham, Mr. Jim Gummer, rh Mr. John Kidney, Mr. David Beckett, rh Margaret Cunningham, Tony Gwynne, Andrew Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter Begg, Miss Anne Curry, rh Mr. David Hain, rh Mr. Peter Knight, rh Mr. Greg Bell, Sir Stuart Darling, rh Mr. Alistair Hall, Mr. Mike Knight, rh Jim Bellingham, Mr. Henry David, Mr. Wayne Hamilton, Mr. David Laing, Mrs. Eleanor Benn, rh Hilary Davidson, Mr. Ian Hamilton, Mr. Fabian Lait, Mrs. Jacqui Benton, Mr. Joe Davies, David T.C. Hammond, Mr. Philip Lammy, rh Mr. David Benyon, Mr. Richard (Monmouth) Hammond, Stephen Lancaster, Mr. Mark Beresford, Sir Paul Davies, Philip Hands, Mr. Greg Laxton, Mr. Bob Berry, Roger Dean, Mrs. Janet Hanson, rh Mr. David Lazarowicz, Mark Betts, Mr. Clive Denham, rh Mr. John Harman, rh Ms Harriet Leigh, Mr. Edward Binley, Mr. Brian Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit Harper, Mr. Mark Lepper, David Blackman, Liz Dismore, Mr. Andrew Harris, Mr. Tom Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan Havard, Mr. Dai Levitt, Tom Blears, rh Hazel Dobbin, Jim Hayes, Mr. John Lewis, Mr. Ivan Blizzard, Mr. Bob Dobson, rh Frank Healey, rh John Lewis, Dr. Julian Blunt, Mr. Crispin Donohoe, Mr. Brian H. Heathcoat-Amory, rh Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian Bone, Mr. Peter Doran, Mr. Frank Mr. David Lidington, Mr. David Borrow, Mr. David S. Dorries, Nadine Henderson, Mr. Doug Lilley, rh Mr. Peter Boswell, Mr. Tim Dowd, Jim Hendrick, Mr. Mark Linton, Martin Bottomley, Peter Duddridge, James Hendry, Charles Lloyd, Tony Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben Duncan, Alan Hepburn, Mr. Stephen Loughton, Tim Brazier, Mr. Julian Dunne, Mr. Philip Heppell, Mr. John Love, Mr. Andrew Brennan, Kevin Eagle, Angela Herbert, Nick Lucas, Ian Brokenshire, James Eagle, Maria Hesford, Stephen Luff, Peter Brown, Lyn Efford, Clive Heyes, David Mackinlay, Andrew Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas Ellman, Mrs. Louise Hill, rh Keith Maclean, rh David Brown, Mr. Russell Ellwood, Mr. Tobias Hillier, Meg MacShane, rh Mr. Denis Browning, Angela Engel, Natascha Hoban, Mr. Mark Mactaggart, Fiona Bryant, Chris Ennis, Jeff Hodge, rh Margaret Main, Anne Buck, Ms Karen Etherington, Bill Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon Malins, Mr. Humfrey Burden, Richard Evans, Mr. Nigel Burgon, Colin Evennett, Mr. David Hollobone, Mr. Philip Mallaber, Judy Burnham, rh Andy Fabricant, Michael Hood, Mr. Jim Mann, John Burns, Mr. Simon Fallon, Mr. Michael Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey Maples, Mr. John Burrowes, Mr. David Farrelly, Paul Hope, Phil Marris, Rob Butler, Ms Dawn Field, rh Mr. Frank Horam, Mr. John Marsden, Mr. Gordon Byers, rh Mr. Stephen Field, Mr. Mark Howarth, rh Mr. George Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert Byrne, rh Mr. Liam Fisher, Mark Howarth, Mr. Gerald Martlew, Mr. Eric Caborn, rh Mr. Richard Fitzpatrick, Jim Howell, John Maude, rh Mr. Francis Cairns, David Flello, Mr. Robert Howells, rh Dr. Kim May, rh Mrs. Theresa Campbell, Mr. Alan Flint, rh Caroline Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas Campbell, Mr. Ronnie Flynn, Paul Humble, Mrs. Joan McCabe, Steve Carswell, Mr. Douglas Follett, Barbara Hunt, Mr. Jeremy McCarthy-Fry, Sarah 795 Debate on the Address 26 NOVEMBER 2009 796

McCartney, rh Mr. Ian Reed, Mr. Jamie Turner, Mr. Andrew Willetts, Mr. David McCrea, Dr. William Reid, rh John Turner, Dr. Desmond Williams, rh Mr. Alan McDonagh, Siobhain Robathan, Mr. Andrew Turner, Mr. Neil Williams, Mrs. Betty McDonnell, John Robertson, Hugh Twigg, Derek Wills, rh Mr. Michael McFadden, rh Mr. Pat Robertson, John Tyrie, Mr. Andrew Wilson, Phil McFall, rh John Robertson, Mr. Laurence Ussher, Kitty Wilson, Mr. Rob McGovern, Mr. Jim Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey Vaizey, Mr. Edward Winnick, Mr. David McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne Rooney, Mr. Terry Vara, Mr. Shailesh Winterton, Ann McIntosh, Miss Anne Rosindell, Andrew Vaz, rh Keith Winterton, Sir Nicholas McIsaac, Shona Roy, Mr. Frank Villiers, Mrs. Theresa Winterton, rh Ms Rosie McKechin, Ann Roy, Lindsay Vis, Dr. Rudi Wood, Mike McKenna, Rosemary Ruane, Chris Walker, Mr. Charles Woodward, rh Mr. Shaun McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick Ruddock, Joan Wallace, Mr. Ben Woolas, Mr. Phil McNulty, rh Mr. Tony Ruffley, Mr. David Waltho, Lynda Wright, Mr. Anthony Meacher, rh Mr. Michael Russell, Christine Ward, Claire Wright, David Meale, Mr. Alan Ryan, rh Joan Wareing, Mr. Robert N. Wright, Mr. Iain Merron, Gillian Salter, Martin Watkinson, Angela Wright, Dr. Tony Michael, rh Alun Scott, Mr. Lee Watson, Mr. Tom Wyatt, Derek Miliband, rh Edward Seabeck, Alison Watts, Mr. Dave Yeo, Mr. Tim Miller, Andrew Selous, Andrew Whitehead, Dr. Alan Young, rh Sir George Miller, Mrs. Maria Shapps, Grant Whittingdale, Mr. John Milton, Anne Sharma, Mr. Virendra Wicks, rh Malcolm Tellers for the Noes: Mitchell, Mr. Andrew Shaw, Jonathan Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann Kerry McCarthy and Mitchell, Mr. Austin Shepherd, Mr. Richard Wiggin, Bill Mary Creagh Moffatt, Laura Sheridan, Jim Mole, Chris Simmonds, Mark Question accordingly negatived. Moon, Mrs. Madeleine Simon, Mr. Siôn Morden, Jessica Simpson, David Main Question put and agreed to. Morgan, Julie Simpson, Mr. Keith Resolved, Moss, Mr. Malcolm Singh, Mr. Marsha Mudie, Mr. George Skinner, Mr. Dennis That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, as Mullin, Mr. Chris Slaughter, Mr. Andy follows: Mundell, David Smith, rh Mr. Andrew Most Gracious Sovereign, Munn, Meg Smith, Ms Angela C. We, YourMajesty’s most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Commons Murphy, Mr. Denis (Sheffield, Hillsborough) of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in Murphy, rh Mr. Jim Smith, Geraldine Parliament assembled, beg leave to offer our humble thanks to Murphy, rh Mr. Paul Smith, rh Jacqui Your Majesty for the Gracious Speech which Your Majesty has Murrison, Dr. Andrew Smith, John addressed to both Houses of Parliament. Naysmith, Dr. Doug Snelgrove, Anne Address to be presented to Her Majesty by Members Neill, Robert Soames, Mr. Nicholas of the House who are Privy Counsellors or Members of Norris, Dan Soulsby, Sir Peter Her Majesty’s Household. O’Brien, rh Mr. Mike Southworth, Helen O’Brien, Mr. Stephen Spellar, rh Mr. John O’Hara, Mr. Edward Spelman, Mrs. Caroline Business without Debate Olner, Mr. Bill Spicer, Sir Michael Osborne, Mr. George Spring, Mr. Richard Osborne, Sandra Stanley, rh Sir John STANDARDS AND PRIVILEGES Ottaway, Richard Starkey, Dr. Phyllis Ordered, Owen, Albert Steen, Mr. Anthony That Mr. David Curry be discharged from the Committee on Paice, Mr. James Stewart, Ian Standards and Privileges and Sir Malcolm Rifkind be added.—(Steve Paisley, rh Rev. Ian Stoate, Dr. Howard McCabe.) Palmer, Dr. Nick Strang, rh Dr. Gavin Pearson, Ian Straw, rh Mr. Jack Penning, Mike Streeter, Mr. Gary SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE Penrose, John Stuart, Ms Gisela Pickles, Mr. Eric Stuart, Mr. Graham Motion made, Plaskitt, Mr. James Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry That— Pope, Mr. Greg Swayne, Mr. Desmond (1) Standing Order No. 14 (Arrangement of public business) Pound, Stephen Swire, Mr. Hugo shall have effect for this Session with the following modifications, Prentice, Bridget Syms, Mr. Robert namely: Prentice, Mr. Gordon Tami, Mark In paragraph (4) the word ‘eight’ shall be substituted for the Prescott, rh Mr. John Tapsell, Sir Peter word ‘thirteen’ in line 42 and in paragraph (5) the word ‘fifth’ Primarolo, rh Dawn Taylor, David shall be substituted for the word ‘eighth’ in line 44; Prisk, Mr. Mark Taylor, Mr. Ian (2) Standing Order No. 90 (Second reading committees) shall Pritchard, Mark Thomas, Mr. Gareth have effect for this Session with the following modification, Prosser, Gwyn Thornberry, Emily namely: in paragraph (2) the word ‘fifth’ shall be substituted for Purchase, Mr. Ken Timms, rh Mr. Stephen the word ‘eighth’ in line 21; and Purnell, rh James Tipping, Paddy (3) Private Members’ Bills shall have precedence over Government Rammell, Bill Todd, Mr. Mark business on 29 January; 5 and 26 February; 5 and 12 March; Randall, Mr. John Touhig, rh Mr. Don 23 and 30 April; and 7 May.—(Steve McCabe.) Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick Trickett, Jon Redwood, rh Mr. John Truswell, Mr. Paul Hon. Members: Object. 797 Business without Debate 26 NOVEMBER 2009 798

PETITIONS Equitable Life (Poole) Equitable Life (Shipley) 6.32 pm 6.29 pm Mr. Robert Syms (Poole) (Con): This is a petition on Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): I wish to present a Equitable Life raised by Mr. Robert Johnston of Poole. petition on behalf of my constituents, Mr. and Mrs. Deppe, The petition states: about the issue of Equitable Life and the Government’s The Petition of residents of the constituency of Poole Borough failure to implement the recommendations of the in the Dorset region of the U.K. regarding the Government’s parliamentary ombudsman. response to the Parliamentary Ombudsman’s reports on Equitable The petition states: Life, The Petition of residents of the constituency of Shipley in the Declares that the Petitioners either are or they represent or West Yorkshire region of the U.K. regarding the Government’s support members, former members or personal representatives of response to the Parliamentary Ombudsman’s reports on Equitable deceased members of the Equitable Life Assurance Society who Life, have suffered maladministration leading to injustice, as found by Declares that the Petitioners either are or they represent or the Parliamentary Ombudsman in her report upon Equitable support members, former members or personal representatives of Life, ordered by the House of Commons to be printed on 16 July deceased members of the Equitable Life Assurance Society who 2008 and bearing reference number HC 815; and further declares have suffered maladministration leading to injustice, as found by that the Petitioners or those whom they represent or support have the Parliamentary Ombudsman in her report upon Equitable suffered regulatory failure on the part of the public bodies Life, ordered by the House of Commons to be printed on 16 July responsible from the year 1992 onwards, but have not received 2008 and bearing reference number HC 815; and further declares compensation for the resulting losses and outrage. that the Petitioners or those whom they represent or support have The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons suffered regulatory failure on the part of the public bodies urges the Government to uphold the constitutional standing of responsible from the year 1992 onwards, but have not received the Parliamentary Ombudsman by complying with the findings compensation for the resulting losses and outrage. and recommendations of her Report upon Equitable Life. The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons And the Petitioners remain, etc. urges the Government to uphold the constitutional standing of the Parliamentary Ombudsman by complying with the findings [P000429] and recommendations of her Report upon Equitable Life. Equitable Life (South Staffordshire) And the Petitioners remain, etc. [P000427] Equitable Life (Reigate) 6.34 pm Sir Patrick Cormack (South Staffordshire) (Con): I 6.30 pm also wish to present a petition on a similar subject. Like Mr. Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con): I wish to present a my hon. Friend the Member for Reigate (Mr. Blunt), I petition on behalf of 94 of my constituents, which is wish to declare a personal interest as having been a somewhat similar to the petition that the House has just policyholder with Equitable Life. The petition is signed heard. I wish first to declare an interest as I was a by Mr. Barrie Powell and 30 constituents in South policyholder of Equitable Life during the period reported Staffordshire. on by the parliamentary ombudsman. The petition states: The petition states: The Petition of residents of the constituency of South Staffordshire The Petition of residents of the constituency of Reigate in the in the Staffordshire region of the U.K. regarding the Government’s Surrey region of the U.K. regarding the Government’s response response to the Parliamentary Ombudsman’s reports on Equitable to the Parliamentary Ombudsman’s reports on Equitable Life, Life, Declares that the Petitioners either are or they represent or Declares that the Petitioners either are or they represent or support members, former members or personal representatives of support members, former members or personal representatives of deceased members of the Equitable Life Assurance Society who deceased members of the Equitable Life Assurance Society who have suffered maladministration leading to injustice, as found by have suffered maladministration leading to injustice, as found by the Parliamentary Ombudsman in her report upon Equitable the Parliamentary Ombudsman in her report upon Equitable Life, ordered by the House of Commons to be printed on 16 July Life, ordered by the House of Commons to be printed on 16 July 2008 and bearing reference number HC 815; and further declares 2008 and bearing reference number HC 815; and further declares that the Petitioners or those whom they represent or support have that the Petitioners or those whom they represent or support have suffered regulatory failure on the part of the public bodies suffered regulatory failure on the part of the public bodies responsible from the year 1992 onwards, but have not received responsible from the year 1992 onwards, but have not received compensation for the resulting losses and outrage. compensation for the resulting losses and outrage. The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to uphold the constitutional standing of urges the Government to uphold the constitutional standing of the Parliamentary Ombudsman by complying with the findings the Parliamentary Ombudsman by complying with the findings and recommendations of her Report upon Equitable Life. and recommendations of her Report upon Equitable Life. And the Petitioners remain, etc. And the Petitioners remain, etc. [P000428] [P000430] 799 26 NOVEMBER 2009 800

Select Committees (Election) Prime Minister thinks it appropriate. It is not accurate to say that the Whips have a separate agenda. If they Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House organise informally for some reason, they are doing so —(Steve McCabe.) do now adjourn. at the behest of the Prime Minister, and that will be the test if and when the matter comes before the House—it 6.35 pm is not that they have gone off on some sort of maverick effort. Either they have been told by the Prime Minister Mr. Graham Allen (Nottingham, North) (Lab): A that he wishes the thing to happen, in which case it will, wise man once said that and they will serve him, or, informally, he does not wish “there is nothing more difficult to plan, more doubtful of success, it to happen, and that is when people say, “The Whips nor more dangerous to manage than a new system. For the are doing their own thing.” That is not true in this initiator has the enmity of all who would profit by the preservation of the old institution and merely lukewarm defenders in those House. who gain by the new ones.” We need to consider those words of Machiavelli extremely Martin Salter (Reading, West) (Lab): Yesterday, the carefully when we are trying to reform this House. Prime Minister said of the Wright Committee Despite the efforts of many colleagues over many years, recommendations: there are always roadblocks or difficulties, sometimes at “I believe that there will be a warm welcome for some of the a late stage, in trying to move forward and make progress. proposals in the report.”—[Official Report, 25 November 2009; However, with the help of my hon. Friends on the Front Vol. 501, c. 529.] Bench, whichever bit they sit on, I am sure that we can Does my hon. Friend share my concern that although move forward. the election of Select Committee Chairs by the whole To rebuild this House, we will need more than a House may well get through, the more radical proposals one-club policy. There has to be something better, for a Back-Bench business committee could be strangled particularly if that policy is merely to placate the media at birth? with the odd human sacrifice of a Member of Parliament because of expenses or something else. We must have Mr. Allen: My hon. Friend has been one of the most another side—a positive side—to what we are doing in ardent and capable members of Committee on Reform our own reform, and that is to create a Chamber that of the House of Commons, and it is very rare that I people can be proud of and an institution that acts as a disagree with him, but I say to him that the positions national forum. Then we will start to recover people’s that we have all agreed in the report on the election of respect for this institution instead of just piling more Select Committees and other things are merely a negotiating bodies on to the Daily Telegraph bonfire. base. If we can get some key things in it accepted, I will We therefore need to support the Prime Minister, be absolutely delighted. We must give Front-Bench since it was he who set up the Wright Committee and colleagues who are in favour of them the ammunition wanted it to be a success. I am sure that my hon. Friend to negotiate. No doubt they will make many compromises, the Minister will tell us that the Prime Minister intends but I hope that the House as whole will see the issue to will the ends as well as the means—that he wants to move forward, even though some things that my hon. make reform something that is not just rhetorical but Friend and I want will sadly not go through. real and practical as we come towards the end of this We state at the beginning of the report, and it is Parliament. repeated later, that the Government must get their business. Wherever one sits in this House, that has to be Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con) rose— a truism while we have a unitary system of government in this country. That guarantee is in the report, and if it Mr. Allen: I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, but is not there strongly enough it needs to be reinforced by I ask him to be brief because I do not get injury time. Front Benchers, who all aspire to hold power. The other side of that is that Parliament must get its Sir Nicholas Winterton: I commend the hon. Gentleman scrutiny. That is why there is the leverage of people of for what he is doing tonight. Is he aware, however, that good will throughout the House to suggest compromises when the Modernisation Committee put forward proposals if necessary and negotiate a way forward, and to make to ensure that Select Committees were truly representative into a reality the truism from Gladstone that I have of this House, the Government, and the Whips Office repeated often in this Chamber, that the role of this of the Government—the Labour party—sought to defeat House is not to run the country but to hold to account its then Chairman, and did defeat him, when his those who do. If we can do that, we will all have done a inspirational leadership in trying to modernise this House good job here. In very difficult circumstances, we can and make it more democratic had provided such an salvage the heart and the root cause of why we have a opportunity, through the work of the Modernisation Parliament in this country. Committee? Mr. Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): I hope Mr. Allen: I regard the Front-Bench team, certainly that I can share the hon. Gentleman’s optimism, but on on the Government side of the House, and I would say the basis of the exchanges earlier with the Leader of the in all parts of the House, as being positive in trying to House, does he share my concern that she has not even move this plan forward. been able to say categorically that we will have a substantive I must take issue with the hon. Gentleman as regards motion before us on which we can debate these issues, the Whips being this alleged dark force with their own and which we can amend as needs be? That should agenda. I can tell him that I was in the Whips Office for happen in a short time scale, no later than the end of five years, and as a Whip, one does not sneeze unless the January. 801 Select Committees (Election)26 NOVEMBER 2009 Select Committees (Election) 802

Mr. Allen: I would certainly welcome an Opposition expect my hon. Friend the Minister to respond to the day initiated by any party so that we can have a proper detail of the report, having had it for only two days—but debate, but I do not just want a debate: I want to have a that they respond to the concepts, of which they are all clear decision. For instance, I do not care whether some philosophically in favour, of improving how the House of our proposals in the report on private Members’ Bills works. Those party leaders, including my own, need to live or die, but they should be brought to a decision repeat publicly, so that everyone—whether they are rather than be subject to the procedural wrangling and Back-Bench Members or in the Whips Office—is clear argy-bargy that wastes everybody’s time. Let us be that they meant what they said. honest about whether we want the changes to go ahead. A tiny fraction—an insignificant sliver—of people in The House is bad at confronting decisions and often the House cynically believe that we can spend two finds ways to avoid doing so, but we certainly should in months contemplating our navels, have an inconclusive this case. debate followed perhaps by a motion towards the back A great strength of the point in our report about end of the Parliament, when few people are here, and elected Select Committees is that for the first time, the that, with a free vote, perhaps with thousands of members of a Select Committee were elected secretly by amendments plaguing the Order Paper, the matter will the individual parties. Its Labour members were properly, dribble into the sand. I do not share for one moment privately and secretly elected, as were the Conservative that cynical view, which a tiny number of colleagues and Liberal members, and special arrangements were have proposed as a way to conclude this business. made for the minority parties, as they need to be. That I am sure that we will hear tonight, not least from the precedent did not lead to the collapse of parliamentary Dispatch Box, that once the report has been digested, civilisation as some people know it, because it was there will be a clear timetable backed by the three main actually one of the best Committees that one could party leaders, and that we will bring the House to a have wished to be on. The rapport, exchanges and conclusion—yes or no—on a large number of the sensible interaction led to a really superb report, considering the and modest recommendations in the report. I hope that time that we were given to produce it. I commend it to that day comes long enough ahead of a general election all hon. Members to read. for it to make a difference and that, after the general We can take into our own hands our suggestion for election, regardless of who controls this place, another all Select Committees. Provided that a basic test of raft of proposals will come forward, so that the House democracy put in place by Mr. Speaker is passed, all can move into the 21st century and try to recapture parties should be able to grow up and elect their Committee some of the public esteem that it has so thoughtlessly members. What a wonderful thing that would be! It frittered away over the past six months. would also show that we can have legitimacy in this House, whether we are electing Select Committees or Deputy Speakers or doing anything else. We are capable 6.49 pm of looking after our own affairs, behaving reasonably and responsibly and exercising judgment. We do not The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of need a special group of people to do that for us or to the House of Commons (Barbara Keeley): I am pleased select those things for us. That gives the House great to respond to this Adjournment debate secured by my strength, and with that strength will come the sense of hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham, North being able to control our own agenda in tandem with (Mr. Allen). It is fair to say that he is one of the the Government. For those who did not hear me the strongest advocates of the House reform agenda, and it first time, I repeat that we do not wish to undermine the is appropriate that he secured this debate, although we ability of a Government of any political colour to use have also heard from other Members who are strong the House to pass their legislation. advocates. As the report of the Select Committee on Reform of the House of Commons was published only Our weakness, however, has been exemplified in recent two days ago, there is a limit to the detail into which I times. Although many hon. Members would like a can go in my response, and I am sure that my hon. debate on this issue, or some other issue or motion, it Friend understands that. He is nodding. appears that one needs the strength of someone such as Sir Christopher Kelly for that to happen. He took As my hon. Friend said, on 10 June, the Prime umbrage at the fact that a Bill that he wanted was not in Minister announced in a statement to the House his the Queen’s Speech and found the next day that an support for the proposal made by my hon. Friend the announcement had been made, “Don’t worry, Sir Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright) to set up a Christopher, you’ll have a Bill if you really want one.” It new committee to consider reform of the procedures of appears also that Nick Robinson can raise an eyebrow the House of Commons. One of the Committee’s terms at something and there is an instant response. The best of reference was to examine the processes for appointing that Members of Parliament can do is to get a debate members and Chairmen of Select Committees—the within two months. That shows the weakness of the broad subject of our debate tonight. House compared with the Government and the media, The House agreed to set up the Committee on between whom, as we know, the real politics take place. 20 July, having first tabled a motion around the start of Some of the modest measures in the report will help to July. It was unfortunate that it took so long for the redress the balance, so that the only directly elected Committee to be set up. There were several objections element of our constitution—ourselves—can take some to the original motion, so the Government listened to responsibility, have a degree of respect and participate Members’ representations and amended it, and the in the exercise of proper democracy.That, too, is important. House was able to debate a motion that had cross-party It is very important not that the party leaders, who support. However, I regret that the members and Chair came out individually and said that Parliament should of the Committee found themselves right on top of the be reformed, specify the detail of that reform—I do not recess when they were trying to get it started. There are 803 Select Committees (Election)26 NOVEMBER 2009 Select Committees (Election) 804 some lessons to be learned about communication, and core objectives for Select Committees; the Liaison Members objected to the original motion night after Committee publishing an annual report on the work of night as their way of expressing an opinion. However, Select Committees, to which the Government respond, we got through that. The Committee reported on Tuesday, and the Prime Minister giving evidence to the Liaison and the Prime Minister and the Leader of the House Committee once a year. [HON.MEMBERS: “Twice.”] I welcomed its report. I will come back to that subject. misread—I meant twice a year. The Committee was given four areas to examine: the The parliamentary reform Committee’s report states: appointment of members and Chairmen of Select “The Select Committees are widely respected and seen as Committees; the appointment of Deputy Speakers; the generally functioning well. They have won more resources in scheduling of business in the House; and enabling the recent years. Their work on pre-legislative and post-legislative public to initiate debates and proceedings. The Procedure scrutiny, examination of expenditure and pre-appointment hearings Committee has reported separately on the principle of is gaining ground.” electing the Deputy Speakers, so the parliamentary It continues: reform Committee did not want to duplicate that work. “There is a strong desire to strengthen yet further these forums The Government will respond to the Procedure Committee’s for cross-party work and Government scrutiny and indeed extend report in due course. the way they work to other parts of parliamentary life.” Like the parliamentary reform Committee’s report, I The report expresses concern about the current method intend to use the gender-neutral term “Chair” in this of selecting Committee members and Chairs. It also debate to denote both the individual chairing a Committee details the powers of Committees, and their need for and the office held. My personal view is that, like many access to the agenda of the Chamber, as further areas of of the other recommendations around at the moment, concern. that is a practice that the House should adopt now we The Liaison Committee’s report, “The Work of the are in the 21st century. Committees in 2007-08” agreed that Select Committees This morning my right hon. and learned Friend the play an important role, and said that they were Leader of the House thanked my hon. Friend and the “a central part of Parliament’s vital scrutiny role.” Committee for their work on the report. She also said that she looked forward to bringing the matter forward Select Committee inquiries are often topical and are for debate. increasingly becoming newsworthy. The current inquiry into “Press standards, privacy and libel” by the Culture, The report by the Committee on Reform of the Media and Sport Select Committee, and the Transport House of Commons highlights three areas for reform, Committee’s inquiry into “Priorities for investment in and makes many recommendations. They include reducing the railways” are just a couple of examples. the size of departmental Select Committees in some cases, setting up a Back-Bench committee to schedule This morning I was asked in business questions about non-Government business, and informing the public of giving more time to debate Select Committee reports. House business relating to their own petitions. As for Although time is provided to debate Select Committee quaint procedures, a series of petitions have just been reports in Westminster Hall, I suggested that topical presented, and I would be amazed if the public who felt debate requests could also be made to give more time to so strongly about the subject of those petitions understood debate them. the wording of the way in which we handle them. Let me briefly touch on other areas raised in tonight’s On Select Committees, the report highlights several Adjournment debate— matters and makes many recommendations for reform. They range from reducing the size of departmental Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): Order. I Select Committees to extending reforms to the Intelligence hope that the Minister will do so briefly, as the subject and Security Committee and making the process more of the debate is clearly the election of Members to transparent. It also suggests a review of the system after Select Committees. Although the hon. Member for two years of a new Parliament and a review of the Nottingham, North (Mr. Allen) ranged a little widely, Public Bill Committee system to see whether the selection we cannot have a full-scale debate on the Wright Committee of membership should be subject to increased report. This debate would not be the appropriate vessel accountability. for that. I shall talk first about Select Committees, the main subject of our debate. Select Committees have existed Barbara Keeley rose— for centuries. In their earlier form, they advised, deliberated and reported. However, they were usually set up on an Mr. Allen: If the Minister will allow me, I would ad hoc basis to discuss the latest sensitive political include the election of members of the proposed business issues, and they met informally.Throughout their existence committee within the subject of electing members of the Select Committee system has evolved, and we should Select Committees generally, given that it has been ensure that we enable them to continue evolving. That proposed as one of the Committees of the House. I ties in with the Committee’s work. hope that that will allow my hon. Friend to say a little Thirty years ago, the House of Commons established something about the business committee and how it will the departmental Select Committee system to scrutinise be composed. Departments. For many years it had been recommended that Select Committee Chairs should be paid, but that Barbara Keeley: Thank you. I will certainly bear your was not agreed by the House until 2003. words in mind, Mr. Deputy Speaker. A number of Steps have been taken over the years to reform and suggestions have been made over a long period— dating strengthen the system, and the Committee’s report notes back, I think, even to Lord Tyler, the then Liberal those changes. Reforms have included: the creation of Democrat spokesman—about business committees and 805 Select Committees (Election)26 NOVEMBER 2009 Select Committees (Election) 806

[Barbara Keeley] If new Members after the next general election have to vote on the Speakership, and on legislation every day of how their members might be selected and then go the week, does she not agree that that goes with the forward. My hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham, territory? Do elections not ask people to exercise judgment? North touched earlier on two particular recommendations For goodness’ sake, is that not why we are sent here? about the people serving on such committees. One recommendation is to timetable in Government business, Barbara Keeley: Indeed. Members are talking to someone and the other is to schedule non-Government business, who, when she was a new Member and wanted to be on including topical and general debates. As to who might the Health Committee, was told that there was a six-year want to sit on such committees and who might want to queue. be nominated for them, it has been suggested that Back Benchers from all parties should be allowed to exercise Mr. Allen: My hon. Friend touched on the question their influence on the question of what important subjects of public participation in such matters. The election of should be brought before the House for debate. Members of the House to their own Committees would The latest proposals are part of a thorough and strengthen and rebuild the House. If we do not that, the wide-ranging set of conclusions, but I am sure that my House is in danger of being bypassed, which is not the hon. Friend will not be surprised to hear me say that intention behind e-petitioning, mass referendums and they need to be considered in detail, along with other so on. If we are not fit for purpose—I hold that we are recommendations in the report and other recent reports, not fit for purpose currently—and if we appear reluctant of which a number have recommended various reforms. to change in order to be so, the public will find means of My hon. Friend talked about public engagement— expression other than through their elected representatives. although this subject may be rather beyond the scope of The danger would be that e-petitioning might become our debate. As I mentioned earlier, whenever we are mass policy making at the discretion of leading political talking about a subject—whether that be Select Committees commentators—the Simon Cowells or Rupert Murdochs or anything else that we discuss—I would like us to do of the political world. Rebuilding our internal election so in language less strange to the public than our system so that it is trustworthy is very important. language frequently is. E-petitioning can then become a useful addition.

Sir Nicholas Winterton: Will the Deputy Leader of Barbara Keeley: I thank— the House go a little further, specifically in relation to the appointment of Select Committees in the next Sir Patrick Cormack (South Staffordshire) (Con): Parliament? Is it not critical for members to be properly Will the hon. Lady give way? independently elected rather than being put forward by the Whips? I greatly admired the late Robin Cook, who Barbara Keeley: I am short of time, and must bring was inspirational and focused. He knew how to return my remarks to a conclusion. democracy to this House, but he was denied that I want to quote some statements that have already opportunity when the Modernisation Committee’s made. In her statement to coincide with the publication proposals were defeated by a majority of Government of the report, the Leader of the House said: Members voting against them. “The Government is grateful to the Committee and its Chair...for producing a thorough and wide-ranging piece of work and welcomes Barbara Keeley: That brings me back to a point I the report.” made earlier. There are some issues that need careful She went on to say: consideration if we are to achieve the change suggested “We are grateful for the proposals to enable such reforms and by the report. For instance, we need to think about what will look to make early progress whilst needing to allow Government will happen if we have a substantial turnover of Members to continue to deliver its legislative programme and deal with and a lot of new Members come in, which is certainly emerging challenges. The Government will make time available going to happen, because so many Members are not foradebate.” standing for re-election. In a recent debate about the Some of the Prime Minister’s comments yesterday have nomination of members to the Independent Parliamentary been quoted already, but he too warmly welcomed the Standards Authority, the hon. Member for Broxbourne report: (Mr. Walker) made a strong appeal, saying that he had “It is right for us to consider how our Select Committee system wanted to be considered for various Committees, but can be reformed so that it is better in the future. It is also right for that as a Member from the 2005 intake, he had found it us to consider how non-Government business is dealt with, and impossible to get nominated. how we can improve the workings of the House.”—[Official Things will be difficult when the people making the Report, 25 November 2009; Vol. 501, c. 529.] decisions are themselves new, and we need to take That is very much the subject of tonight’s debate. account of that. If we changed the system, it would not To conclude, the recommendations in the Committee’s be right or appropriate for new Members of the House report are respected by the Government for their complexity to have to wait a long time before anyone knew them and reach, and we will give them detailed and thorough well enough to nominate them. The hon. Member for consideration. As most Members would realise, however, Broxbourne made that point to those on his own Front that consideration cannot take place entirely in the first Bench, and I hope that they were listening to him. two days after publication of the report. The Leader of the House wrote to the Chairman of the Committee on Martin Salter: Does the Minister appreciate that she the day the report was published to inform him that the has set off alarm bells in my head with the concept that Government intend to make time for a debate on this votes are not of equal value on the Floor of the House? important matter. That will enable right hon. and hon. 807 Select Committees (Election)26 NOVEMBER 2009 Select Committees (Election) 808

Members who have not taken part in the Committee’s Mr. Allen: Very good experience. deliberations to offer their views on the report. Those opinions are also valuable to our consideration. Barbara Keeley: An experience, yes. There is much to discuss in the future, but we have made a good start this I again congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the evening. debate and on his work on the Committee. I thank him Question put and agreed to. for his positive comments about the Whips—I am sure that that is echoed on the Front Bench. Given that I was 7.4 pm his Whip until this June, I hope that it was not too House adjourned. bad—

85WS Written Ministerial Statements26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 86WS Written Ministerial TREASURY

Statements Walker Review (Bank Governance)

Thursday 26 November 2009 The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Ian Pearson): The Government welcome the publication today of the final report of Sir David Walker’s independent review of the corporate governance of UK banks and other BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS financial institutions. The corporate governance failures identified by the review contributed significantly to the financial crisis. UK Composite Strategy Improvements in board practice, risk management, control and disclosure of remuneration, and the exercise of The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, investors’ ownership rights are required to address these Innovation and Skills (Ian Lucas): My noble Friend the fully. Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, Sir David’s comprehensive recommendations are a Lord Mandelson, has today made the following statement. world-leading response to the governance failures identified I am today announcing the publication of the UK Composite and will ensure that the UK remains at the forefront of Strategy. improving corporate governance in the banking sector. Fulfilling a commitment made in our policy document “New The Government will move quickly to implement the Industry, New Jobs”, this strategy sets out the role Government have to play to help build a globally competitive composites review recommendations, working closely with other industry here in the UK. bodies to which the review has directed recommendations Advanced composites, such as carbon fibre, are light-weight, for implementation. higher performance materials. Their use to reduce weight in The Secretary of State for Business Innovation and automotive, aerospace and other transport applications can deliver Skills has today written to Sir Christopher Hogg, the savings in running costs and more significantly, carbon emissions— chairman of the Financial Reporting Council, asking helping increase resource efficiency and drive our shift to low the FRC to take responsibility for a new stewardship carbon vehicles. The strength and stiffness of advanced composites also make them an ideal material for the production of the new code for institutional investors, which was recommended generation of larger wind turbines. by Sir David. The UK already has a developed expertise in using composites The FRC, which is currently reviewing the combined in aerospace and high-performance cars, but future significant code, will consider how it intends to address the growth in the composite industry will be driven by more mass recommendations directed to it. Similarly, the FSA will market, high volume cost effective production. Government’s new be considering how to take forward the recommendations composite strategy comprises a package of measures to strengthen applying principally to financial institutions. The Britain’s composites capability, to build its composites capacity and to improve the sector’s sustainability. Our aim is to enable Government are seeking powers in the Financial Services more UK manufacturers to secure an increased share of this Bill to permit it to make regulations implementing the growing market. review’s remuneration disclosure recommendations. The strategy includes proposals to: The detail of the recommendations and the specific Strengthen leadership in the fragmented composites sector means of implementation may be subject to further through the establishment of a composite leadership forum. A development or consultation as appropriate. BIS Minister will chair this forum, which will involve key companies and industry stakeholders; The Government will continue to work with their Develop future technical and manufacturing capabilities in international partners to ensure an appropriate and composites through a more coordinated approach to skills consistent global response to bank corporate governance development; failures. Raise awareness of the cross-sector commercial opportunities Copies of the final report have been deposited in the composites present through a supply chain initiative. This will be Libraries of both Houses. led by the regional development authorities alongside the composite centres of excellence; Develop rapid manufacturing capability, with Government investment of £16 million to create a cross-sectoral national composite centre in the Bristol region. The centre will deliver COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT world-class innovation in the design and cost-effective rapid production of composites across all sectors. A £6 million Technology Strategy Board challenge will also be set to spark innovation Rural Economy and Affordable Housing solutions in this area; Increase sustainability and recycling of composites, with a new consortium of Government, business and other key stakeholders to prioritise work on issues such as improving recycling processes The Minister for Housing (John Healey): The Secretary and applications for recyclate. of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and I As the market evolves, so will our approach. We will continue are today publishing a prospectus for a £1 million to work with businesses, industry bodies, trade unions, academics, Rural Masterplanning Fund. I am also publishing a regional development agencies and devolved Administrations to consultation on guidance to incentivise landowners to deliver these proposals. bring forward additional land for affordable housing in Further details of the strategy will be available to the House rural areas and the Matthew Taylor Review Implementation later today. Plan. These documents are being published following 87WS Written Ministerial Statements26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 88WS commitments made in the Government’s response to In addition, specific grants, which include the dedicated the Matthew Taylor review published on 25 March schools grant, will total £47.2 billion and will bring the 2009. overall Government grant increase to 4 per cent. in In September 2007, the Prime Minister asked the 2010-11. hon. Member to undertake a review on how land use In the 10 years up to 2007-08 we increased total and planning can better support rural businesses and Government grant to English local authorities by 39 per deliver affordable housing and to report to the Secretary cent. in real terms, with an above inflation increase for of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and local government in each year. There will be a further the Minister of State for Housing and Planning. The total increase over this three-year settlement of £8.6 billion. final report of the review, with detailed recommendations, I am pleased that the average band D council tax was published in July 2008. increase this year was 3.0 per cent.—the Government Our response welcomed the review and set out our expect to see it fall further next year while authorities proposals to take forward most of the review’s 48 protect and improve front line services. recommendations to continue to encourage a prosperous We expect the average band D council tax increase in rural economy and improve the delivery of affordable England to fall to a 16-year low in 2010-11. We remain rural homes. prepared to take capping action against excessive increases The Rural Masterplanning Fund prospectus invites set by individual authorities and requiring them to rural local planning authorities to bid for expert technical rebill for a lower council tax if necessary. We are already support to assist them in masterplanning to achieve the capping the police authorities of Cheshire, Leicestershire sustainable expansion of small or medium-sized settlements, and Warwickshire in advance of 2010-11 because of and sets out the terms of the competition. previous excessive increases set by these authorities. My The consultation paper seeks views on our draft officials are today writing to the three police authorities guidance to local authorities on how to encourage setting out their proposed maximum budget requirements landowners to bring forward land for affordable housing for 2010-11. in rural areas. The guidance proposes: either allowing Today’s announcement on the final year of the first landowners the ability to refer family members or employees ever three-year settlement delivers on the Government’s for tenancies to a percentage of the homes provided on promise to provide financial stability to local government their land, as long as they meet housing need and local and recognises the important role of councils in providing connection criteria; or allowing them to keep the freehold real help now to communities in the current economic of the land while leasing it to a housing association. climate. The Matthew Taylor Review Implementation Plan Today also marks the start of a period of statutory provides an update on progress in implementing each of consultation with local government on formula grant the recommendations of the Matthew Taylor review. distribution and I welcome their responses. Consultation I have placed a copy of these documents in the closes on 6 January 2010. Libraries of both Houses. I will be making available full supporting information on the Communities and Local Government website at: Finance Settlement (England) 2010-11 http://www.local.communities.gov.uk/finance/1011/ grant.htm The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for I have placed copies of the consultation paper, tables Communities and Local Government (Barbara Follett): I of formula grant allocation by local authority and am today publishing the Government’s formal proposals other supporting material in the Vote Office and the on distribution of formula grant to English local authorities Library of the House. for 2010-11, together with information on the allocations of all specific and special grants that can be announced in advance. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT The proposed figures for formula grant allocations that I am publishing today are unchanged from those Education, Youth and Culture Council that were first proposed in January 2008. That is in line with the Government’s policy on three year settlements, which is that we will not change the proposals for The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, formula grant first published in January 2008, except in Media and Sport (Mr. Siôn Simon): The Education, entirely exceptional circumstances. Youthand Culture Council will be held on 26-27 November The importance of maintaining that commitment is in Brussels. I will be representing the UK on 27 November twofold. First, central and local government work together, when culture and audiovisual issues will be taken. Michael with other local partners, in service delivery. It is vital to Russell MSP, Minister for Culture, External Affairs and give local government a settled financial platform on the Constitution for Scotland, will also attend the Council. which to build those relations and those services. Secondly, The first item on the agenda concerns the Council this is continued recognition of the importance of the conclusions on promoting a creative generation. These services delivered by local authorities and the pressures conclusions are part of a range of initiatives, suggested on those services, such as social care and waste management. in 2007 by the Commission Communication on a European Total formula grant for 2010-11 will be £29 billion, of agenda for culture in a globalising world, which call for which redistributed business rates will be £21.5 billion, culture to be considered in broader aspects of the RSG £3.1 billion and police grant, £4.4 billion. Formula Council’s work—in this instance education and digitisation. grant will be £747 million or 2.6 per cent. higher than in The UK has been broadly supportive of this approach 2009-10 on a like for like basis. and I intend to endorse the adoption of these conclusions. 89WS Written Ministerial Statements26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 90WS

The presidency will then seek to reach a general with an Independent Service Provider (ISP) for routine approach on the proposal for the European year of elective secondary healthcare represented the most effective voluntary activities promoting active European citizenship and efficient means of providing quality secondary (2011). The year would promote volunteering and encourage healthcare for regular military personnel. Therefore, I and support the efforts of member states to develop am announcing today our intention to close the Duke favourable conditions for volunteering in Europe. The of Connaught Unit (DCU), the military hospital facility proposal for the year will fit well with the UK Government’s based at Musgrave Park Hospital, South Belfast, by aims of increasing the proportion of the population 1 April 2010. that volunteer. There will now be a period of consultation with the The year falls helpfully just before the 2012 Olympic trade unions. We recognise the impact this decision will Games in London. I intend to support the adoption of have on the civilian staff currently employed at the this proposal. DCU, and we will make every effort to support them The Council will be invited to adopt conclusions on through this period of change. media literacy in the digital environment. These conclusions encourage the promotion of media literacy through ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS formal and informal education, while recognising member state competency on educational policy. They demonstrate our commitment to policies which will support ways of Climate Change Report containing the risks of the internet without excessive regulation and which will help realise the creative, The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and educational and economic potential of the internet. Rural Affairs (Hilary Benn): The meeting in Copenhagen The UK welcomes these conclusions and I intend to next month is our chance to make a substantial reduction support their adoption. in greenhouse gas emissions and avoid dangerous climate There will then be a discussion of a presidency paper change. But even if we secure a new global deal, some on the digitisation of cultural content in Europe. The change is inescapable because of historic and projected paper asks a series of questions on the main challenges emissions, and we need to take action to adapt to it or faced by Europe in making its cultural heritage better the consequences could be severe. The earlier we start available online. I will intervene to outline the UK view adapting, the better equipped we will be to cope with on the main issues that need to be addressed by European the risks to our society, our environment and our economy. initiatives to encourage the digitisation of cultural works, Homes and buildings, transport infrastructure and hospitals how Governments and the EU can help facilitate private all need to be resilient to the impacts we face. initiatives and public-private partnerships for making The UK climate projections that I launched earlier cultural works digitally available and what can be done this year showed many of the likely impacts of climate by member states and national institutions to make change for the UK which include warmer, wetter winters, important digitised material widely available. hotter, drier summers, sea level rise and more severe Under any other business the Commission will provide weather including storms, floods heat waves and droughts. information on the Google Books settlement. There Climate change will affect almost every aspect of our will be an information point from the French delegation lives and means that we will need some new infrastructure on the digitisation of cinemas in Europe. There will also to cope. Action now will reduce costs for individuals, be an information point from the Slovenian delegation businesses and the public purse later. on improving the position of publishers who issue The Government are taking the lead. Government books in languages with small numbers of speakers. Departments will be producing adaptation plans by The Austrian delegation will raise an issue concerning spring 2010, setting out how they are assessing and the protocol amending the Council of Europe convention managing the risks from climate change across their on transfrontier television. I do not foresee a need to programmes and estates. The Government are also intervene on any of these. identifying, assessing, and where possible calculating the cost of climate change risks and opportunities at UK, national and regional level through the UK climate DEFENCE change risk assessment which will be produced by 2012. In addition to this, the Climate Change Act 2008 gave Duke of Connaught Unit the Government the power to require certain public bodies and statutory undertakers to assess and report The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence on current risks from climate change and their plans for (Mr. Kevan Jones): As part of the announcement of dealing with these risks. normalisation made by the then Secretary of State for The Act requires me to lay before Parliament a report Northern Ireland, my right hon. Friend the Member for on how the Government propose to exercise this power Neath, (Mr. Hain) on 1 August 2005, the Government within one year of Royal Assent (by 26 November undertook to reduce the number of military bases in 2009), setting out the circumstances in which directions Northern Ireland to the 14 core sites named in the are likely to be given (the strategy for using the power) updated Security Annex to the Joint Declaration. We and the kinds of organisation which I consider should have since reported that only eight of those 14 core sites be directed as a matter of priority. would be required in the future. Following public consultation on our proposals over However, a review of the requirement to retain a the summer, and in accordance with the requirements military hospital to provide secondary healthcare for of the Act, I am today laying this report before Parliament. service personnel in Northern Ireland has concluded It focuses on those organisations that are responsible that a commercial contract for Commissioned Care for key public services; energy, water, transport and 91WS Written Ministerial Statements26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 92WS health. It also ensures that adapting to climate change is between 1997-98 and 2010-11. This is almost a 20 per embedded into the work of organisations such as the cent. increase in real terms. This investment has helped NHS, local authorities, police and fire services by factoring to expand local policing significantly. There has been climate change into relevant public sector regulation. considerable achievement over the last 10 years investing Other organisations with functions to protect our natural in an improved mix of more officers and more police environment, or which we consider to be of critical staff. The police workforce has increased by 30.9 per importance but do not fit the statutory criteria for cent. (56,590) since 1997 to 239,607 in March 2009; a direction are being invited to report. record number. This includes substantial growth in These organisations will have to report to me from police staff (41.8 per cent.) that has freed police officers summer until the end of 2011 outlining their assessment from back-office and support roles for the frontline. of the risks climate change poses and the steps they are Neighbourhood policing forms the bedrock of local going to take in response. This information will be used policing in the 21st century. Through effective engagement to inform the national adaptation programme which with their local community, other community safety must be laid before Parliament in response to the risk service providers, representatives from the private sector assessment. and community organisations, neighbourhood policing Copies of this report will be placed in the Libraries of teams ensure that local concerns are dealt with efficiently. both Houses. A copy of the report is also on the Neighbourhood policing teams play a prominent part DEFRA website at: http://www.defra.gov.uk/adaptation. in delivering the commitments made in the Policing Pledge and in achieving the single top-down target of The Government have also published their response public confidence in police and councils to deal with to the consultation on the draft strategy for using the crime and antisocial behaviour issues that matter locally, reporting power, and have today produced the statutory both of which require effective partnership working at guidance to reporting organisations. Copies of these the neighbourhood level. It is for individual police documents are also available. forces and authorities to ensure the effectiveness of neighbourhood policing in their area. The Government will hold forces to account for progress through the HOME DEPARTMENT public confidence target, which has increased from 45 per cent. in March 2008 to 50 per cent. in July 2009. The Government are working with ACPO and APA Police Authorities (Grant Allocations) colleagues to ensure forces deliver on the Policing Pledge, drawing on the recent inspection work by Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC). The Minister for Policing, Crime and Counter-Terrorism The police reform programme continues apace. The (Mr. David Hanson): I have today placed in the Library Policing White Paper, which will be published shortly, our proposals for allocation of police grant for England represents the next stage of the current police reform and Wales for 2010-11. I intend to implement the proposals programme and an opportunity to highlight and review on police grant subject to consideration of any the progress that has been made in the 18 months since representations and the approval of the House. Copies the publication of the Green Paper: “From the are also available in the Vote Office. Neighbourhood to the National: Policing our Communities In summary, this settlement intends to make available Together”. Focusing on delivery of the Policing Pledge, £259 million more than in 2009-10 in funding to the the confidence target and protective services; and addressing police service in 2010-11. Policing and reducing crime our wider approach to tackling crime and antisocial remain top priorities for this Government. We have behaviour in the context of the current financial climate, continued to work hard to maintain the police grant at the Policing White Paper will give fresh impetus to the the best possible level as well as to provide secure and Government’s vision for the future of accountable, stable funding across policing, crime and drugs. We are professional and citizen focused policing, working effectively committed to investing in the police so they have the with partners nationally and locally. tools and powers to fight crime and make communities We continue to make good progress on reforming safer. police and Criminal Justice Service processes to free up The Government previously announced provisional officer time by making greater use of technology and funding totals for the three-year period 2008-09 to investment in mobile data devices. Jan Berry in her 2010-11 in December 2007 and November 2008. This capacity as the independent Reducing Bureaucracy three-year settlement was received positively by police Advocate is challenging the police service, its partners authorities and forces, as a means of providing greater and the Home Office to think about wider reductions certainty and improving medium-term planning. The in unnecessary bureaucracy. Her report includes Government face more challenging financial circumstances recommendations for a range of Government agencies, than expected at the time the three-year settlement was a study on the custody process, and a review of announced. The Home Secretary has however decided the implementation of the recommendations made in to prioritise funding for the police. I will therefore be the Flanagan review. The White Paper will respond to implementing the substantial increases in police revenue these. funding set out in the three-year settlement in line with In 2009-10 some £4.8 million was made available to our statement in November 2008. the 16 tackling knives action programme police forces The funding settlement for 2010-11 continues to build to enable them and their partners to undertake additional on unprecedented levels of investment in the police activity to tackle serious youth violence, including service in England and Wales since 1997-98. On a like knife crime and gang-related violence, with a further for like basis Government grant for the police will have £500 thousand for supporting activities such as the Be increased by over 60 per cent. or over £3.7 billion Safe programme with schools. Figures published last 93WS Written Ministerial Statements26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 94WS month for England and Wales for the April to June deal with excessive council tax increases in 2010-11, 2009 period showed a fall in police recorded knife and including requiring authorities to re-bill if necessary. sharp instrument related violence compared to 2008, We took capping action against two police authorities including a provisional 35 per cent. drop in knife related in 2009-10 and seven police authorities in 2008-09. This homicides from 71 to 46, and a fall in firearms offences included, in 2008-09, the designation of Cheshire, of 5 per cent. We want to build on the progress achieved Leicestershire and Warwickshire police authorities for so far and in the new year we will announce our plans capping in advance of both 2009-10 and 2010-11. My for 2010-11 to enable the police and their partners to right hon. Friend, the Member for Doncaster, Central continue bringing about a step change in the levels of (Ms Winterton), who is the Minister responsible for serious youth violence in our communities. local government, is announcing today that action is The Home Office also contributes £76 million to the being taken forward to limit these authorities’ precept Safer and Stronger Communities Fund and the Young increases to around 3 per cent. in 2010-11. The three Persons Substance Misuse Partnership Grant delivered authorities have 21 days in which to challenge our by local government. In addition, there is a capital decision. Any challenges will be carefully considered element of the Safer and Stronger Communities Fund before final decisions are made. that is under review. This funding will help local areas Welsh police authorities to deliver national and local improvement priorities In line with previous years, I have again ensured that such as those set out in local area agreements. Welsh police authorities are treated on a par with The police grant settlement 2010-11 English police authorities in respect to the floor Total provision for policing revenue grants in 2010-11 damping mechanism. I have provided additional will be £9,741 million, an overall increase of 2.7 per support of £15.7 million in 2010-11 to ensure Dyfed-Powys, cent. The Government propose to distribute the settlement Gwent and North Wales police authorities receive at as set out below. least a minimum grant increase of 2.5 per cent. equivalent to the level of the funding floor in England. Floor Table 1: Police Revenue Funding Three-Year Settlement 2008-09 to 2010-11 funding is also partly funded through the scaling of 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 police grant to South Wales police authority, so as to £m £m £m maintain consistency with the treatment of English authorities and provide the level of grant it would Home Office general grant 4,543 4,666 4,792 receive if it were in England. DCLG/WAG general grant 3,488 3,583 3,680 Specific grants for police authorities Welsh Top-Up 15 16 16 Total general Formula Grant* 8,062 8,281 8,504 Police authorities will continue to receive specific % increase in general grant 2.7% 2.7% 2.7% grants for particular schemes. Details are set out in table 3. Total Specific Grants 1,165 1,201 1,237 Total Government funding for 9,227 9,482 9,741 Counter-terrorism funding—We will continue to invest police authorities in counter-terrorism policing. Funding for police counter- % increase in total Government 2.9% 2.8% 2.7% terrorism will be increased from £552 million in 2009-10 revenue funding to £579 million in 2010-11. *This figure includes the formula grant allocations in table 2 plus This announcement reinforces our CSR plans for former specific grants (209 million—rounded up) that are now added to general grant but are not distributed according to the continued growth in counter-terrorism policing. formula. Crime Fighting Fund—£211 million will again be Police funding proposals within the local government made available to forces in 2010-11. finance system for England are being announced by the Neighbourhood Policing—We will maintain the ring Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities fence on this funding during 2010-11 to ensure that and Local Government, my hon. Friend the Member neighbourhood policing is properly embedded. Funding for Stevenage (Barbara Follett) today, and those for for each authority has increased by 2.7 per cent. A total Wales by the Welsh Assembly Government. of £341 million will be made available in 2010-11. Provisional general policing grants (that is, Home Office Police Grant, Revenue Support Grant and National Funding additional to the settlement Non-domestic Rates) for English and Welsh police Mobile Information Programme— In view of the authorities in 2010-11 compared with 2009-10 are set enthusiastic response from frontline officers, and the out in table 2. success of the programme, a further £30 million capital General grant was made available in 2009-10 as part of our campaign Within the general grant provision of a 2.7 per cent. to free up time for officers and reduce bureaucracy. increase, the funding floor was set at 2.5 per cent. The Safer and Stronger Communities Fund—The resource increase for each of the CSR years. Each police authority element of £61million and the YoungPeoples Substance in England and Wales is guaranteed an increase of at Misuse Grant of £15 million will continue to be paid least this level. The grant floor provides for stability but into the Area Based Grant for 2010-11. The Safer and at the same time a degree of grant scaling has enabled Stronger Communities Fund Capital which is paid direct us to target resources to areas with greater relative need. to local authorities by the Home Office is currently Our promised review of the funding formula before the under review, and allocations will be announced at the next CSR is already under way with active participation earliest opportunity. from the policing community. For the devolved Administration in Wales, where The Government have made it clear that there is no local area agreements are not applicable, the Crime excuse for excessive increases in precepts on council tax Reduction and Anti-social Behaviour Grant is made next year. We will not hesitate to use capping powers to available. The resource element of this grant will remain 95WS Written Ministerial Statements26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 96WS at £3 million for 2010-11, but the capital element is Table 2: Police Grant Allocation by English and Welsh Police currently under review, and allocations will be announced Authority 2009-10 to 2010-11 at the earliest opportunity. Police Authority Change on 2009-10 2009-10 Capital Formula 2010-11 Formula Allocation1 Allocation1 Allocation Police funding remains a priority for this Government. £m £m % Even in very difficult financial times, we have prioritised the police. We have decided to continue to increase Suffolk 71.0 72.7 2.5% funding for the police by providing the £259 million Surrey 101.8 104.4 2.5% increase in revenue funding set out in the three year Sussex 169.8 174.1 2.5% funding settlement. However, we have more difficult Thames Valley 238.2 244.7 2.8% decisions to make on capital. We will therefore review and announce capital allocations in January 2010. The Warwickshire 54.1 55.6 2.7% police will get the best possible settlement within our West Mercia 121.8 124.9 2.5% means. Wiltshire 65.2 66.8 2.5% Efficiency Shires Total 3669.0 3770.0 2.8% English Metropolitan Authorities The police share the public service duty to maximise Greater 458.9 472.5 3.0% value for money, especially in the current economic Manchester climate. Locally, it is the responsibility of police authorities Merseyside 267.4 274.3 2.6% to set ambitious targets for the efficiency and productivity gains to be achieved by their forces and to hold chief Northumbria 249.9 256.2 2.5% officers to account for delivery. It is also for authorities South Yorkshire 204.1 209.2 2.5% and forces to decide locally how to recycle the benefits West Midlands 486.1 504.3 3.8% of increased efficiency and productivity. Senior policing West Yorkshire 339.2 350.5 3.3% leaders must help drive the organisational change required Mets Total 2005.7 2067.1 3.1% to make significant improvements in value for money, London Authorities both in their forces and authorities and working with GLA - Police 1978.3 2027.7 2.5% others. Value for money must be central to the strategic 2 vision for improving policing, and chief officers and City of London 21.0 21.8 N/A senior leaders must be visibly associated with this English Total 7674.0 7886.6 2.8% organisational priority within the service. Welsh Authorities Dyfed-Powys3 54.4 55.8 2.5% Table 2: Police Grant Allocation by English and Welsh Police 3 Authority 2009-10 to 2010-11 Gwent 82.6 84.7 2.5% Police Authority Change on North Wales3 80.1 82.1 2.5% 2009-10 2009-10 South Wales3 181.5 186.4 2.7% Formula 2010-11 Formula Allocation1 Allocation1 Allocation Welsh total 398.6 409.0 2.6% £m £m % TOTAL| 8072.6 8295.7 2.7% English Shire Authorities Avon & 179.7 186.1 3.5% Somerset Bedfordshire 70.8 73.1 3.3% Notes to table 2 Cambridgeshire 81.0 83.5 3.0% 1. Rounded to the nearest £100,000. Grant as calculated under Cheshire 120.5 123.5 2.5% the Local Government Finance Report (England) and Local Cleveland 97.7 100.1 2.5% Government Finance (No.2—Provisional Settlement Police Cumbria 67.2 68.9 2.5% Authorities) Report (Wales). Table includes the effects of floors Derbyshire 112.6 116.2 3.1% and scaling. Devon & 186.4 191.1 2.5% Cornwall 2. Figures for the City of London relate to Home Office Grant only as calculated in the Police Grant Report (England and Dorset 65.3 66.9 2.5% Wales). Revenue Support Grant is allocated to the Common Durham 91.4 93.7 2.5% Council of the City of London as a whole in respect of all its Essex 177.9 183.1 2.9% functions. The City is grouped with education authorities for the Gloucestershire 59.3 60.8 2.5% purposes of grant floors. Hampshire 207.5 213.0 2.7% 3. Welsh figures include Home Office floor funding. Hertfordshire 121.2 124.9 3.0% Humberside 128.4 131.8 2.6% Table 3: Specific Grant Allocations 2008-09 to 2010-11 Kent 192.1 197.4 2.7% 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Lancashire 204.1 209.7 2.7% £m £m £m Leicestershire 118.0 121.4 2.9% Crime Fighting Fund 277 277 277 Lincolnshire 64.3 66.3 3.2% Neighbourhood Policing Fund 324 332 341 Norfolk 87.6 89.8 2.5% & Community Support Officers North Yorkshire 76.7 78.6 2.5% Police Counter Terrorism 524 552* 579 Northamptonshire 75.5 77.5 2.7% Basic Command Units 40 40 40 Nottinghamshire 141.4 146.0 3.3% Grand Total 1,165 1,201 1,237 Staffordshire 120.6 123.8 2.7% *This was later increased to £569 million in year (2009-10) 97WS Written Ministerial Statements26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 98WS

Identity and Passport Service (Framework Agreement) Measures contained in the programme aim to ensure that every citizen can have confidence that, wherever they are in the EU, judicial decisions made in a civil The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the court in their favour can be enforced, criminals will face Home Department (Meg Hillier): The “Identity and justice and all defendants are guaranteed a fair trial. Passport Service Framework Agreement”is being published The programme will result in an EU where children today inline with HM Treasury and Cabinet Office are safer, where data is shared sensibly, where we facilitate guidance. The framework agreement sets out clear strategic legal travel but clamp down on illegal immigration, objectives, responsibilities and lines of accountability where mutual recognition is the cornerstone of judicial for IPS. These will help to ensure that IPS is able to co-operation, where member states co-operate on counter- deliver on its key purpose of safeguarding identity. A terrorism and combat organised crime, and where we copy is available in the Library of the House. work closely with external countries on JHA and beyond. There will be a state of play discussion on the Common Justice and Home Affairs Pre-Council Statement European Asylum System, which is likely to focus on the recently published asylum procedures and qualification The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the directives. Since December 2008 the European Commission Home Department (Meg Hillier): The Justice and Home has been proposing measures to deliver the second Affairs Council is due to be held on 30 November and phase of the Common European Asylum System (CEAS). 1 December 2009 in Brussels. My right hon. Friend the The proposals on the procedures (which sets out minimum Secretary of State for the Home Department, my right standards for deciding asylum claims, including rules hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Justice,my noble on such things as interviews and appeal rights) and Friend, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for qualification (which sets out the circumstances in which Justice, Lord Bach, and the Scottish Lord Advocate, applicants will qualify for international protection) directives Elish Angiolini, intend to attend on behalf of the were published by the Commission on the 23 October United Kingdom. As the provisional agenda stands, 2009. The presidency will want to gauge member states’ the following items will be discussed: initial reactions to the new proposals. The UK believes The Council, beginning in Mixed Committee with these directives are not necessary at this time as they non-EU Schengen states, will receive an update from undermine the migration pact and will be seeking to the presidency on the current state of play on the ensure that language in these directives aligns with the implementation of the regulation establishing the Visa conclusions in the migration pact. Information system (VIS). The UK does not participate Over lunch, Interior Ministers will hold a discussion in that regulation. on the location of the European asylum support office. The presidency will update Ministers on arrangements The presidency will present the outcomes and action for the first milestone test for the second-generation points of the EU-US ministerial troika and of the Schengen Information System (SIS II). The UK welcomes EU-Western Balkans ministerial forum. There will also the update and will seek to ensure that the test is be a presentation on the preparation of the EU-Russia well-planned and managed, ideally taking place before ministerial Permanent Partnership Council (PPC), due the end of 2009. to be held on 2 December in Stockholm. The UK The Council will have an orientation debate on the supports the presidency’s efforts in these areas. Commission’s proposal for establishing an EU agency There will be a presentation on the six-monthly report for the management of large-scale IT systems. The by the counter-terrorism co-ordinator (CTC). The CTC Commission carried out an impact assessment which has recently revised the counter-terrorism action plan endorsed the need to create an agency. The UK supports and after receiving comments from member states will the need for an agency and wishes to take part in the present the action plan to the Council. The UK supports adoption and application of this proposal. efforts made by the CTC to continue to drive forward Finally, the Mixed Committee will be asked to adopt EU co-operation on CT, and is particularly appreciative legislation giving Schengen visa liberalisation to Serbia, of his efforts with priority third countries, such as the Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia and Pakistan. Montenegro. While the UK does not participate in the The presidency is seeking to adopt the Council decision EU visa regime, we maintain an interest in all visa on the Terrorist Finance Tracking Programme. The issues. US Terrorist Finance Tracking Programme (TFTP) Following Mixed Committee, the Council will be currently uses payment information carried through the asked to adopt a decision authorising the presidency to SWIFT (Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial sign, on behalf of the EU, an agreement between EU Telecommunications) system to identify and trace terrorist and Japan on mutual legal assistance in criminal matters finance and facilitators. This agreement is needed because (MLA). The presidency has recently concluded negotiations of a restructuring of SWIFT. The UK supports the on this agreement and UK objectives in relation to this Council decision subject to the views of the Parliamentary were met. The UK is therefore content for such a Scrutiny Committees. decision to be adopted, subject to the views of the The presidency is seeking to approve the proposal for Parliamentary Scrutiny Committees. an information management strategy for EU internal The presidency will present the draft future JHA security. The strategy should allow enhanced project work programme (the Stockholm Programme) and there management and improved data security.The UK supports will be a general debate with interior items on day one the latest draft which for a strategic approach across the and justice on day two. Ministers will be expected to areas of law enforcement, judicial co-operation and agree the draft programme which will be adopted at the border management and is content for its approval December European Council. at Council. 99WS Written Ministerial Statements26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 100WS

On day two of the Council, as previously stated, PRIME MINISTER Justice Ministers will be asked to discuss and agree to the justice aspects of the draft future JHA work programme (the Stockholm Programme). The presidency will provide Justice Ministers with Financial Support for Members of the House of Lords information on the current state of play of working (SSRB Report) group negotiations on the proposed framework decision on combating the sexual abuse and exploitation of children and child pornography. The Government support The Prime Minister (Mr. Gordon Brown): The Senior this measure, but due to the changes brought about by Salaries Review Body was commissioned to undertake a the Lisbon Treaty, this proposal will no longer be taken review into the financial assistance available to Members forward as a framework decision. The Commission are of the House of Lords in recognition that the expenses likely to retable this proposal as a directive after the regime was now outdated and we needed to move to a Lisbon Treaty comes into effect. The Government will system that would be more transparent and ensure update the Scrutiny Committees about this. greater accountability. Justice Ministers will also have an orientation debate I am today publishing the SSRB’s report, which I about the negotiations that have been taking place at accept. In doing so, I wish to record my gratitude to Bill official level about a proposed framework decision on Cockburn and SSRB members for undertaking such a transfer of proceedings in criminal cases. This proposal, thorough and comprehensive review. Copies of the too, will no longer be taken forward as a framework report have been placed in the Libraries of both Houses. decision after the Lisbon Treaty comes into effect. It For the Government, the Leader of the Lords will now would need to be represented as a directive, but it is work with other Members of the House of Lords to unclear in what timescale this will happen. take forward its implementation. The Council will then have an orientation debate to clarify the way forward on the draft framework decision on combating trafficking of human beings following TRANSPORT the entry into force of the Lisbon Treaty. The presidency will also seek to adopt the action orientated paper Franchised Rail Services (AOP) on human trafficking. The UK welcomes the approach adopted in the AOP, which creates a more coherent and proactive approach to combating trafficking The Minister of State, Department for Transport by EU member states in partnership with third countries. (Mr. Sadiq Khan): My right hon. and noble Friend the Secretary of State for Transport, Lord Adonis, has Finally on the justice agenda, the presidency are made the following ministerial statement: expected to inform the Council on the state of play on On 1 July 2009, Official Report, column 21WS I informed the e-justice. House that National Express East Coast (NXEC) was expected to default on their franchise to operate rail services on the east coast main line and that in consequence I would establish a state Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing company to ensure continuity of service from the date that the company ceased operations. The NXEC franchise was terminated on 13 November when a The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the state company, East Coast, took over the service with minimal Home Department (Mr. Alan Campbell): I have placed disruption. I have since announced that the East Coast Company in the Library of the House the third annual report to will manage the franchise for two years, until November 2011, so Home Office and HM Treasury Ministers on the Suspicious that the Government can review options for a new franchise and Activity Reporting (SAR) regime to combat money consult widely before it is re-let. laundering and terrorist financing. The reporting system The termination of the NXEC franchise on 13 November is a is a key element in the United Kingdom’s defences default under the National Express East Anglia (NXEA) franchise. Having considered the relevant facts, I yesterday notified NXEA against money laundering and terrorist financing. that their franchise will terminate on 31 March 2011, without the The report has been prepared by multi-agency extension to 2014 which would otherwise have happened. The Committee, under the chairmanship of the Serious process for securing a new operator will start immediately so that Organised Crime Agency (SOCA), which includes the after full consultation a new franchise can begin from April 2011. financial services sector, police, other law enforcement In determining the future of the C2C and NXEA franchises, agencies, and the Financial Services Authority. my overriding concern has been to minimise disruption to passengers and staff, and cost to the taxpayer, while ensuring that train The Government note the continuing progress that companies stand by their commitments. I judge these objectives SOCA and the other participants are making to ensure are best served by: that the reporting system is operating so as to help Terminating NXEA’s franchise in 2011, causing them to for go deter, detect and disrupt those involved in these crimes three years of profit; and and in holding them to account. The Government also Beginning the re-franchising process immediately so that a new welcome the Committee’s development of a long-term operator is in place in early 2011. strategy to increase the value and impact of the SAR However, my judgment is that the public interest would not be regime. served by terminating the franchises immediately, necessitating state management during the re-franchising period and three The overall goal is a SARs system that addresses the operators in two years. threats to the UK from crime and terrorism, contributes National Express remains bound to comply with its obligations to the reduction of harm and the recovery of the under its franchises. My Department will be monitoring performance proceeds of crime while minimising the costs of compliance closely in the coming months to safeguard the interests of the to industry and others. travelling public. 101WS Written Ministerial Statements26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 102WS

WALES The first and main item of the agenda will be a policy debate on recovering from the financial crisis and preparing for the post-2010 Lisbon strategy. The presidency wants Future Funding a contribution to the debate on a successor to the strategy after 2010, in the context of demographic The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Peter Hain): In change and economic recovery. There will also be a parallel with the White Paper “Scotland’s Future in the policy debate on gender equality, strengthening growth United Kingdom: Building on ten years of Scottish and employment. The United Kingdom wants to ensure devolution”, I am pleased to inform the House that the that the post-2010 Lisbon strategy reflects the realities Government have agreed new arrangements in relation of the changing requirements of the European labour to future funding in Wales. market by focusing on the need for fairness. These address concerns, expressed by the House of The presidency will seek political agreement on a Lords Select Committee report on the Barnett formula, revised parental leave directive. Social partners signed a the Independent Commission on Funding and Finance new framework agreement in June 2009 and the European for Wales (chaired by Gerald Holtham), and also by the Commission published a proposal for a directive to Welsh Assembly Government, about the continued implement the new agreement. The United Kingdom application of the formula in Wales, in particular whether welcomes that agreement. The presidency will also seek pressures in the Barnett formula for additional convergence political agreement on work in fishing convention which towards the English average could in future disadvantage applies to all fishers and all fishing vessels engaged in Wales. commercial fishing operations. The United Kingdom The Government welcome many aspects of the Holtham supported the development and adoption of the convention, report, which it continues to study in detail. and is committed to working towards ratification. The The new arrangements are as follows: other item for political agreement is a directive on equal the Government agree that the Barnett formula could lead to treatment between men and women engaged in a self- convergence to an extent that would be regarded as unacceptable employed capacity. This aims to promote equal treatment although further convergence is not currently expected in the between self-employed workers and their “assisting coming years; spouses”. The United Kingdom welcomes the progress the Government will make a full assessment of the extent of the Swedish presidency has made with the text and is convergence with consideration of Wales’ position relative to working with the presidency to achieve a reasonable other parts of the United Kingdom as part of each spending outcome at Council. review; and following this assessment the Government would be prepared The presidency will seek adoption of Council conclusions to take action if appropriate to ensure Wales is not on healthy and dignified ageing. The United Kingdom disproportionately disadvantaged. supports the text which acknowledges the importance of active ageing in light of the demographic challenge. WORK AND PENSIONS The Council will also seek adoption of Council conclusions on follow-up of the implementation by the member Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer states and the European Union institutions of the Beijing Affairs Council platform of action to strengthen institutional mechanisms for promoting gender equality. The United Kingdom fully supports this and has submitted a report on progress The Minister for Pensions and the Ageing Society in implementing the platform. (Angela Eagle): The Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council will be held on 30 November There will be a progress report on the anti-discrimination and 1 December 2009 in Brussels. I shall represent the directive. The United Kingdom has taken a positive United Kingdom on all items on 30 November, except approach to the directive but emphasises the need for for the intervention on “gender equality: strengthening the directive to be clear and that any action has to be growth and employment”, where the United Kingdom proportionate to the issue being tackled. will be represented by my right hon. and learned Friend Under any other business, there will be information the Leader of the House of Commons, Lord Privy Seal on conferences held under the Swedish presidency. The and Minister for Women and Equality. Health business incoming Spanish presidency will also give an outline of will be taken on 1 December 2009. their work programme.

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construction projects in Helmand through the Helmand Written Answers to Agriculture and Rural Development Programme (HARDP). This included almost £4.4 million for the Questions construction of wells and latrines. Through the UK-led Provincial Reconstruction Team, the Bost hospital in Lashkar Gah received approximately Thursday 26 November 2009 £800,000 last year for a new maternity clinic and college that would not have been possible under the Taliban. Since 2003, DFID has also contributed £32 million to INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT the Government of Afghanistan’s National Solidarity Programme (NSP), which funds small-scale projects Afghanistan: Health Services selected by communities all around Afghanistan. Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for Afghanistan: Roads International Development how many health clinics in Afghanistan have received funding from the Government in each year since 2001. [301524] Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how many road projects in Mr. Douglas Alexander: The majority of UK support Afghanistan have been funded by the Government in for health in Afghanistan occurs through contributions each year since 2001. [301525] to the Afghan Government’s budget. Since 2002, the Department for International Development (DFID) Mr. Douglas Alexander: The majority of the Department has contributed £360 million to the Afghanistan for International Development’s (DFID’s) funding for Reconstruction Fund (ARTF). The ARTF is managed construction projects in Afghanistan is through support by the World Bank and reimburses proven Government to the Afghan Government’s budget. Since 2003, DFID expenditure on operating costs including on health. has contributed £32 million to the National Solidarity DFID will provide a further £165 million to the ARTF Programme (NSP). This funds small-scale projects selected to 2012-13 which will cover 14 per cent. of the Government’s by communities all around Afghanistan, and has funded recurrent costs in health. the construction of almost 12,000 ‘transport’ projects. Since 2003 DFID has also invested £32 million in the Since 2001 DFID has also funded the design, National Solidarity Programme (NSP), which funds improvement or construction of almost 150 kilometres small-scale projects selected by communities all across of roads in Helmand province. This includes: Afghanistan. The NSP has funded the construction of 59 kilometres of small road projects selected by local communities over 100 health projects nationwide. and funded through the Helmand Agriculture and Rural Development Programme (HARDP); Construction of individual health clinics in Helmand 12.5 kilometres in various districts of Helmand as part of the is undertaken by the UK-led Helmand Provincial Helmand Provincial Reconstruction Team’s road building Reconstruction Team (PRT), to which DFID contributes programme; staff and funding. In the last six months, the PRT has a 2.5 kilometre road providing access to the Gereshk power constructed or refurbished four health centres in Helmand station, the rehabilitation of which DFID is financing; province. Last year, the Bost hospital in Lashkar Gah the design of the 48 kilometre Lashkar Gah to Gereshk road. received approximately £800,000 for a new maternity clinic and college. This would not have been possible Afghanistan: Schools under the Taliban. Afghanistan: Overseas Aid Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how many schools in Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for Afghanistan have been funded by his Department in International Development how much funding his each year since 2001. [301523] Department has provided for rehabilitation projects for (a) health clinics, (b) schools and (c) drinking wells in Mr. Douglas Alexander: The majority of UK support for education in Afghanistan occurs through contributions Afghanistan in each year since 2001. [301522] to the Afghan Government budget. Since 2002, the Mr. Douglas Alexander: The majority of the Department Department for International Development (DFID) for International Development’s (DFID’s) support for has contributed £360 million to the Afghanistan health and education in Afghanistan is not through Reconstruction Fund (ARTF). The ARTF is managed direct construction projects, but rather support to the by the World Bank and reimburses proven Government Afghan Government budget. Since 2002 DFID has expenditure on operating costs including on education. contributed £360 million to the Afghanistan Reconstruction We will provide a further £165 million to the ARTF to Fund (ARTF) which is managed by the World Bank 2012-13 which will cover 14 per cent. of the Government’s and reimburses proven Government expenditure on recurrent costs in education. operating costs including in health and education. We Since 2003 DFID has also invested £32 million in the will provide a further £165 million to the ARTF to National Solidarity Programme (NSP). This funds small- 2012-13. This will cover 14 per cent. of the Government’s scale projects selected by communities all across recurrent costs in health and education. Afghanistan, including the construction of almost 6,000 Since 2001 DFID has also contributed to a number education projects nationwide. of specific programmes involving the construction of DFID funded the refurbishment of training health clinics, schools and drinking wells. Between 2006 infrastructure and a teacher training centre in Kandahar and 2009, DFID contributed £30 million to various province in 2002. UK support to construct schools in 249W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 250W

Helmand is, however, normally undertaken by the Provincial Departmental Recycling Reconstruction Team (PRT), to which DFID contributes staff and funding. In the last six months, the PRT has Mr. Jenkins: To ask the Secretary of State for refurbished five schools in Helmand. International Development what mass of paper his Department recycled in each of the last five years. Departmental Disclosure of Information [301565]

Norman Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Michael Foster: All waste paper used by the International Development how many allegations of Department for International Development (DFID) is victimisation for whistleblowing have been made to his recycled. The amount of paper in tonnes which has Department by its staff since 6 June 2006. [301489] been recycled over the last five years by DFID is set out in the table. This information was provided by our Mr. Douglas Alexander: No formal allegations of waste contractors, based partly on estimates derived victimisation for whistleblowing have been made to the from waste audits which measured the proportion of Department of International Development (DFID) by paper waste out of the total recycled waste. current staff since 6 June 2006. Tonnes Departmental Meetings 2004-05 208.5 Norman Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for 2005-06 146.4 International Development which (a) individuals 2006-07 140.2 other than ministerial colleagues and officials of his 2007-08 126.4 Department and (b) organisations he met in an official 2008-09 110.2 capacity in the week commencing 9 November 2009. [301166] Departmental Training

Mr. Douglas Alexander: In its response to a report by Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for the Public Administration Select Committee—‘Lobbying: International Development what training sessions were Access and influence in Whitehall’, the Government attended by (a) Ministers and (b) special advisers in agreed to publish online, on a quarterly basis, information his Department at public expense in each of the last about ministerial meetings with outside interest groups. three years. [301373] Information for the period 1 October to 31 December 2009 will be published by Departments as soon as the Mr. Douglas Alexander: Training is provided to Ministers information is ready. and special advisers as part of their induction and Departmental Rail Travel continuing development in order to carry out their respective duties effectively under the ‘Ministerial Code’ and the ‘Code of Conduct for Special Advisers’. Details Norman Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for of training provided to Government Ministers by the International Development on what date he last National School of Government are publicly available travelled by train in the course of his official duties. and can be found at: [301205] http://www.nationalschool.gov.uk/policy/ Mr. Douglas Alexander: I last travelled by train in the MinisterialProgramme/Table.asp course of official duties on 20 November 2009. Departmental Working Hours Departmental Recruitment Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how many and what proportion International Development what proportion of jobs of staff of his Department and its non-departmental advertised by his Department in the last 12 months public bodies work flexibly or part-time; and what his were online only applications; and what provision his Department’s policy is on making jobs available on a Department makes for those wishing to apply for jobs job-share or flexible basis. [301328] in his Department who do not have access to the internet. [301538] Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International Development (DFID) provides a wide range of flexible Mr. Michael Foster: All external vacancies in the working options. Department for International Development (DFID) Most staff work their contracted hours via the Flexible are advertised in the National press and on our website Working Hours Scheme. This offers flexibility on the and we use an e-resourcing system to help us to manage hours worked and allows employees to work additional applications. hours and convert them to leave, up to three days in Since November 2008, a total of 63 posts have been every four-week period. Within this Flexible Working advertised. 58 posts (92 per cent.) were advertised through Hours Scheme, staff work alternative working patterns our e-resourcing system (using online applications) and including reduced hours, compressed hours, job-sharing five posts (8 per cent.) were advertised inviting word and term-time working. At July 2009, 144 Home Civil applications by e-mail and hard copy. Servants worked part-time, equating to 8.6 per cent. There is an expectation that applicants will apply DFID’s policy is that unless there is a clear business online however alternative application methods for all reason all jobs are available on a job-share or flexible of our posts are considered on request. basis. 251W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 252W

DFID does not have any responsibility for any executive Mr. Thomas: The UK Delegation to UNESCO has agencies. Nor do we have any staff working in non- received one e-mail expressing concern at the creation departmental public bodies. of this prize, from the Open Society Institute in November 2009. Remittances Peter Bottomley: To ask the Secretary of State for Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State International Development what role his Department for International Development what estimate his played in the processes leading to UNESCO’s decision Department has made of the value of remittances as a to establish the UNESCO-Obiang Nguema Mbasogo percentage of the gross domestic product of each International Prize for Research in the Life Sciences; country which receives support from his Department in and if he will make a statement. [300241] each year since 2005. [301221] Mr. Thomas: The proposal to establish this prize was Mr. Thomas: The World Bank is the leading source of put forward by the Republic of Equatorial Guinea to reliable data on remittances. However, there is no UNESCO’s Executive Board on 29 September 2008; information for the Democratic Republic of Congo, and it was approved by the Executive Board on 17 Zimbabwe, Afghanistan and Iraq. The available information October 2008. The UK was not a member of the Board for the years 2005-08 is as follows: and therefore took no part in the decision. Remittances as a share of GDP Percentage World Food Programme: Somalia 2005 2006 2007 2008 Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State Ethiopia 1.41 1.30 1.80 1.50 for International Development what involvement the Ghana 0.90 0.80 0.80 0.80 UK has in the World Food Programme’s activities in Kenya 4.30 5.30 5.45 4.90 Somalia; what actions the World Food Programme Malawi 0.03 0.04 0.03 0.00 took in Somalia in the last 12 months; and what Mozambique 0.90 1.10 1.25 1.20 actions are planned in the next 12 months. [301469] Nigeria 2.96 2.90 6.66 4.70 Rwanda 0.90 0.80 1.86 1.20 Mr. Thomas: The United Nations World Food Sierra Leone 0.16 2.40 9.44 7.70 Programme (WFP) has received $335 million so far in Sudan 4.22 3.10 3.80 5.30 2009 from various donors for its emergency food aid Tanzania 0.12 0.10 0.08 0.10 operations in Somalia, against stated requirements of Uganda 4.60 8.70 7.23 3.40 $475 million. It expects by the end of 2009 to have Zambia 0.74 0.50 0.48 0.50 delivered 304,000 metric tonnes of emergency food aid Bangladesh 7.20 8.80 9.55 11.40 to 3.1 million Somalis. India 2.60 2.80 3.09 4.20 Nepal 14.90 18.00 15.50 21.60 WFP expects to appeal for $309 million to continue Pakistan 3.90 4.00 4.20 4.20 its emergency food aid and $40 million for its emergency Cambodia 3.10 4.10 4.20 3.40 nutrition operations in 2010. This will include Special Vietnam 7.60 7.90 7.90 7.90 Operations to improve the security of staff operating in Yemen 7.60 6.70 6.08 5.30 Somalia, finance a humanitarian air support operation, Jamaica 16.00 18.50 19.30 14.50 and improve key port and road infrastructure to facilitate Guyana 25.30 24.30 23.50 24.00 its food aid operations. In 2008 the Department for International Development Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for (DFID) provided $23.8 million to the WFP Protracted International Development what estimate he made of Relief and Recovery Operation for Somalia, which was the amount of remittances sent (a) in total, (b) to spent by WFP from June 2008 to March 2009. Pakistan and (c) to Nigeria in the latest year for which DFID contributed $102 million in 2009 to the cost of figures are available. [301314] WFP’s global operations, and plays an active role in the WFP Board in discussion of its programmes and policies. Mr. Thomas: Total global remittances are estimated at $444 billion in 2008, of which $338 billion flowed to developing countries. Remittances to Pakistan totalled $7.0 billion in 2008. CHURCH COMMISSIONERS Remittances to Nigeria totalled $10.0 billion in 2008. Data Source: Farm Land Management The World Bank 9. Mr. Bellingham: To ask the hon. Member for UNESCO: Prizes Middlesbrough, representing the Church Commissioners what the policy of the Church Commissioners is on the Peter Bottomley: To ask the Secretary of State for management of their holdings of farm land. [301673] International Development what representations he has received on UNESCO’s decision to establish the Sir Stuart Bell: The Church Commissioners seek the UNESCO-Obiang Nguema Mbasogo International Prize best possible total return from all their assets (not just for Research in the Life Sciences; and if he will make a farm holdings) within an acceptable level of risk and statement. [300240] their ethical investment policy. 253W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 254W

Church of England: Finance Income per church ‘member’ in 20071 £ Parish share Other income Total income Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the hon. Member for Middlesbrough, representing the Church Commissioners London 285 193 478 what formula each diocese uses for calculating parish Manchester 264 244 507 share. [301363] Newcastle 276 181 458 Norwich 342 209 551 Sir Stuart Bell: The Commissioners do not collect Oxford 330 131 461 individual dioceses’ parish share formulae. However, I Peterborough 323 886 1209 will shortly place in the Library a document entitled Portsmouth 286 155 442 “Parish Share Systems by Diocese” which summarises Ripon and 371 211 582 Leeds dioceses’ approach to the calculation and allocation of Rochester 354 97 451 parish share. More detailed information would have to St. Albans 316 158 473 be obtained from each diocese. St. Edmunsbury 310 97 407 and Ipswich Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the hon. Member for Salisbury 282 99 381 Middlesbrough, representing the Church Commissioners Sheffield 316 293 609 with reference to the answer of 15 October 2009, Official Sodor and Man 270 86 356 Report, column 996W, on the Church of England: Southwark 380 185 566 finance, how the number of church members is calculated; Southwell and 323 249 571 what the average parish share per church member in Nottingham each (a) parochial church council (PCC) area and (b) Truro 259 286 545 diocese is; what the parish share in each PCC in England Wakefield 305 170 475 in 2009 was; what revenue each diocese received (i) in Winchester 316 74 390 total and (ii) per Church member from the (A) parish Worcester 315 198 513 share and (B) other sources in the last 12 months; and York 267 215 482 how much each diocese spent in that period. [301531] Total 304 192 496 1 Membership: One-third electoral roll, one-third average Sunday attendance, one-third average weekly attendance. Sir Stuart Bell: Church membership is estimated as an average of electoral roll, average Sunday attendance and average weekly attendance numbers. Parish share per church ‘member’ requested in each ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE diocese was given in my answer of 15 October 2009, Preferential Voting: Referendum Official Report, columns 995-96W. Parish share and other income per church ‘member’ received in each 2. Martin Linton: To ask the honourable Member for diocese in 2007 (the latest year for which such figures South West Devon, representing the Speaker’s Committee are available), using figures from diocesan accounts, is on the Electoral Commission Whether the Electoral shown in the table. Commission has been requested to advise Ministers on The Commissioners do not collect the other information the contents of a paving Bill for a referendum on requested by the hon. Gentleman. preferential voting. [301666] Income per church ‘member’ in 20071 Mr. Streeter: The Electoral Commission informs me £ that it has received no such request. Parish share Other income Total income

Bath and Wells 291 206 497 Birmingham 299 280 579 ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Blackburn 263 168 431 Bradford 396 391 787 Common Land Bristol 387 178 564 Canterbury 338 85 423 Mr. Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Carlisle 302 228 530 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps his Chelmsford 339 174 513 Department has taken to facilitate access to manorial Chester 274 139 414 documents held by (a) local record offices and (b) Chichester 266 160 426 other organisations for the purpose of supporting Coventry 306 169 475 public interest applications for the re-registration of Derby 314 133 447 land as common under Schedule 2(4) of the Commons Durham 263 189 452 Act 2006. [301457] Ely 281 163 444 Exeter 304 199 503 Huw Irranca-Davies: It is the responsibility of an Gloucester 265 175 440 applicant under paragraph 4 of schedule 2 to the Commons Guildford 383 68 451 Act 2006 to obtain and provide evidence supporting his Hereford 271 118 388 or her application. Where relevant manorial documents Leicester 334 315 649 are held by local record offices, they will generally be Lichfield 310 289 599 available to the public for inspection. Where they are Lincoln 203 305 509 held by private individuals, arrangements for inspection Liverpool 246 154 400 should be made with the custodian. 255W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 256W

Mr. Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Huw Irranca-Davies: The impact assessment for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will consider pilot implementation of Part 1 of the Commons Act the merits of (a) publishing in electronic format and 2006 concluded that the completion of an application (b) permitting free access to (i) phase I habitat maps, form by applicants would impose a very small administrative (ii) the land cover map 2007 and (iii) other resources burden on applicants. In addition, the costs of giving used by people applying to re-register common land notice of an application to prescribed persons would under Schedule 2(4) of the Commons Act 2006. [301458] also generally be low. The impact assessment noted that DEFRA intended to gather further information about Huw Irranca-Davies: Public access is already generally the burden on applicants, but to date no applications available to similar documents where they are held by have been submitted under paragraph 4 of Schedule 2 public bodies, under the Environmental Information to enable this to be done. Regulations 2004. Under regulation 6 of the 2004 regulations, a person may request information to be Departmental Cost Effectiveness made available in electronic form, and a public authority must comply unless the exceptions in regulation 6(1) apply. DEFRA has arranged for electronic copies of the Dr. Cable: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, decisions of the Commons Commissioners in England Food and Rural Affairs what efficiency savings projects (a) (b) and Wales to be placed on the website of the Association his Department and its agencies put in place of Commons Registration Officers at under the Operational Efficiency Programme; on what date each such project was initiated; how much each www.acraew.org.uk such project was expected to contribute to departmental savings; how much had been saved through each such Mr. Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for project on the latest date for which figures are available; Environment, Food and Rural Affairs for what reasons and if he will make a statement. [300924] applicants for the re-registration of land under Schedule 2(4) of the Commons Act 2006 are required Dan Norris: DEFRA and its delivery network are to provide large-scale ordnance survey maps describing contributing to the Government’s target of £35 billion the application area in circumstances in which existing VFM savings in CSR07. Overall progress towards the register maps describing that area are available. target will be reported in departmental autumn performance [301460] reports. Current savings include those arising under DEFRA’s Workplace Support Initiative which will bring Huw Irranca-Davies: The use of large-scale maps is much of the DEFRA estate (which currently covers required for the purposes of an application under over 234 sites across the Department and its agencies) paragraph 4 of schedule 2 to the Commons Act 2006, in into a single facilities management contract. DEFRA order to ensure accuracy in determining the boundary will save £6 million per year in 2010-11 compared to the line of the land specified in the application. However, preceding year through economies of scale and increasing we accept that, where the application relates to the the flexibility of its facilities. Savings will rise to £11 million whole of a cancelled register unit, the representation of per year by 2013-14. the cancelled unit on the register map could otherwise The Department’s plans for delivering OEP savings be suitable for the purpose of identification. over the next spending review are being developed to We are reviewing the pilot implementation of part 1 contribute to the Government’s £9 billion target of of the Commons Act 2006, and will consider what OEP savings across the public sector. changes might be made to the regulations relating to applications under paragraph 4 of Schedule 2 to the Act Departmental Food when Part 1 is implemented nationally at a later date.

Mr. Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether assistance Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate he from his Department is available to individuals or has made of the proportion of (a) lamb, (b) beef, (c) organisations applying to re-register common land under chicken, (d) pork, (e) turkey, (f) other meats, (g) Schedule 2(4) of the Commons Act 2006 to (a) identify vegetables and (h) fruit procured by his Department and (b) serve notice on the owners of that land, with that was produced in the UK in the latest period for particular reference to circumstances in which such which figures are available; and if he will make a land is not registered with the Land Registry. [301463] statement. [300179]

Huw Irranca-Davies: No assistance is available from Dan Norris: A second report on the proportion of DEFRA for the purposes of making an application to domestically produced food used by Government register waste land of a manor under paragraph 4 of Departments and also supplied to hospitals and prisons Schedule 2 to the Commons Act 2006, regardless of under contracts negotiated by NHS Supply Chain and whether the ownership is registered with the Land Registry. HM Prison Service was published in November 2008, covering the year from 1 April 2007 to 31 March 2008. Mr. Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for This report and the first one covering the previous year Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent can be found at: estimate he has made of the costs expected to be http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/policy/publicsectorfood/ incurred by an individual or organisation applying to awareness.htm re-register common land under Schedule 2(4) of the The report gives details of the proportion of individual Commons Act 2006. [301464] meat, fruit and vegetable categories purchased. 257W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 258W

Although it is too early to show a trend, the report The Solicitor-General: The Merseyside Crown indicates that the amount of domestically produced Prosecution Service (CPS) received the report of the food consumed by Government Departments in England review conducted by Merseyside police on 17 July 1995. is increasing. The proportion of domestically produced The relevant part of the report, together with the food procured by DEFRA has gone up from 79.5 per supporting material including the notes with the various cent. in 2006-07 to 85 per cent. in 2007-08. We expect to officers, was served on the defence by way of a covering publish a third report at the end of 2009. letter on 7 August 1995. The appeal was heard on 11, 12 and 14 September Members: Correspondence 1995 and the judgment of the Court of Appeal was delivered on 20 October 1995. Sir Michael Spicer: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when he plans to Euthanasia: Prosecutions reply to the letter of 3 August 2009 from the hon. Member for West Worcestershire, transferred from the Treasury, PO Ref: 1/74240/2009, on surface water Anne Moffat: To ask the Solicitor-General what recent representations the Director of Public charges. [301743] Prosecutions has received on his interim policy for Huw Irranca-Davies: I replied to the hon. Member prosecutors on assisted suicide. [301677] for West Worcestershire on 17 August and have arranged for a copy of the response to be sent to him. The Solicitor-General: The Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) published the interim policy for prosecutors in respect of cases of assisted suicide on Origin Marking: Israel 23 September 2009. At the same time the CPS launched a 12-week public consultation on it. Up to 20 November Dr. Starkey: To ask the Secretary of State for 2009, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) had received Environment, Food and Rural Affairs with reference to approximately 700 pieces of correspondence in response. the answer of 16 July 2009, Official Report, column 568W, on origin marking: Israel, for what reasons the proposals on labelling of goods originating from Israeli settlements have not yet been published for public LEADER OF THE HOUSE consultation; and when he expects the proposals to be published. [300306] Parliamentary Questions: Written Answers Jim Fitzpatrick [holding answer 23 November 2009]: We fully appreciate the strong opinions that people have 28. Mr. Burns: To ask the Leader of the House what about this issue. It is because of the sensitive and recent representations she has received on the complex nature of this case that the Government are timeliness of answers to Parliamentary Questions for still carefully considering possible next steps. written answer. [301693] Barbara Keeley: My right hon. and learned Friend the Leader of the House has today responded to the SOLICITOR-GENERAL Procedure Committee report on written parliamentary questions which sets out how the Government plan to Bribery Bill improve the quality and timeliness of written parliamentary questions.

Simon Hughes: To ask the Solicitor-General what Members: Correspondence recent discussions she has had with the Attorney- General on the implications of the proposed Bribery Bill for the role of the Attorney-General. [301684] Sir Michael Spicer: To ask the Leader of the House when she plans to reply to the letter of 21 September The Solicitor-General: The Bribery Bill will no longer 2009 from the hon. Member for West Worcestershire require the consent of the Attorney-General or Solicitor- on the Independent Parliamentary Standards General before a prosecution for an offence under the Authority. [301742] Bill can be started, and instead will require the consent of the Director of the relevant prosecuting authority. Barbara Keeley: The hon. Member’s letter of The Bill does not alter the role of the Attorney-General 21 September 2009 was transferred to the Independent in any other way. Parliamentary Standards Authority; which is part of the Ministry of Justice, for answer, on the 5 October Eddie Gilfoyle 2009. I apologise for any confusion and delay caused. Chris Huhne: To ask the Solicitor-General on what dates the Crown Prosecution Service received (a) the Westminster Hall Sittings report of the review, (b) the draft report and (c) the notes of interviews with police officers between the end Mr. Hollobone: To ask the Leader of the House if she of Mr. Eddie Gilfoyle’s trial and the time they were will make arrangements for a full weekly programme of disclosed to the defence for Mr. Gilfoyle’s appeal in Westminster Hall debates to be held in future in the first 1995. [301569] full week of a new parliamentary Session. [301892] 259W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 260W

Barbara Keeley: There are practical obstacles to holding Reportable occurrences involving sittings in Westminster Hall in the first week of a new Aircraft type contaminated air (2008) Parliament. A few days are needed to hold ballots for adjournment debates, for the necessary consultations Boeing B747 5 over the business to be taken at Thursday afternoon Various other aircraft types 19 sittings, and for the appointment of the Chairmen’s Total 97 Panel. Note: The British Aerospace BAe146 and Boeing B777 are now included in ‘various I do not therefore believe that it would be feasible for other aircraft types’ as the numbers of reported events were two and four sittings to take place in the first full week of the next respectively. Session. Automatic Number Plate Recognition TRANSPORT A3: Hindhead Mrs. Laing: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport what statutory basis there is Mrs. Villiers: To ask the Minister of State, for the use of the automatic number plate recognition Department for Transport what the cost to date was of technology. [300513] the Hindhead Tunnel project on the latest date figures are available; and what his most recent estimate is of Paul Clark: The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency the total cost of that project. [300744] uses automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) systems to identify offences relating to the use of unlicensed Chris Mole: Expenditure to date at the end of October vehicles in contravention of Section 29 of the Vehicle 2009 for the Hindhead Tunnel was £258.6 million. Excise and Registration Act 1994. Evidence relied upon The most recent estimate of the total cost for the to pursue penalties for these offences is gathered using project is £365.7 million. systems that have been type approved in line with Aircraft: Air Conditioning Section 20 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. The Highways Agency uses data from ANPR cameras Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, to help with the effective management of traffic on the Department for Transport what recent reports he has strategic road network. The statutory basis for this is received of (a) incidents involving the contamination covered in the Highways Act 1980 and the Road Traffic of aircraft cabin air supply by fumes from engine Regulation Act 1984. lubricants and (b) the commercial aircraft types which have experienced a contamination of the cabin air Mrs. Laing: To ask the Minister of State, supply from the fumes of engine lubricants. [301292] Department for Transport what recent assessment he Paul Clark: Incidents of contaminated air events are has made of the governance system of the use of the reported to the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) under Automatic Number Plate Recognition system. [300514] the mandatory occurrences reporting scheme (MORS). The latest figures, by commercial aircraft type in the Paul Clark: The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency UK, for the first six months of this year are shown in (DVLA) uses a range of measures to maintain high the table. levels of compliance with vehicle licensing requirements, Between 1 January 2009 to 30 June 2009, there were including the use of automatic number plate recognition 38 reported contaminated air events. These figures are (ANPR) technology. DVLA’s compliance approach is out of 553,266 airline flights passenger and cargo kept under review by the Vehicle Excise Duty Collection operations—for the corresponding period: and Enforcement Governance Board, which meets every quarter. Reportable occurrences involving Data from the Highways Agency’s ANPR cameras Aircraft type contaminated air (January-June 2009) are scrambled at source into a non-unique code which Boeing 757 8 can apply to more than one vehicle simultaneously. It is Airbus A319 7 understood that this process renders the data as non- Airbus A320 6 personal under the Data Protection Act 1998. Boeing 737 5 In addition, the Highways Agency operates a system Various other aircraft types 12 of Information Asset Owners to ensure that data are Total 38 held and used in accordance with current legislation, For ease of reference the figures for the last full year namely the Data Protection Act 1998 and in accordance (2008) are also included. In 2008 there were 97 reported with Cabinet Office data handling guidance issued in contaminated air events. These figures are out of 1.2 million 2008. airline flights—passenger and cargo operations—for Data gathered by ANPR cameras are stored at the the calendar year 2008. Highways Agency National Traffic Control Centre (NTCC). The Highways Agency’s Information Asset Owner (IAO) Reportable occurrences involving has ensured that the information is accredited to Aircraft type contaminated air (2008) Information Security ISO27001 standards. In September Boeing B757 38 2009 Lloyd’s Register Quality Assurance (LRQA) Airbus A319 19 conducted a review of procedures at the NTCC and Boeing B737 10 confirmed that standards still met the requirements of Airbus A320 6 ISO27001. 261W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 262W

Aviation Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport what the cost to the public purse of subsidising bus services was in each year since Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, 1997. [301294] Department for Transport (1) what the average number of passengers on internal flights within Great Britain in the last period for which figures are available is, Mr. Khan: The Government subsidise bus services in expressed (a) in passenger numbers and (b) as a England through the Department for Transport’s bus percentage of passenger carrying capacity; [301286] service operators grant (BSOG) which is paid to operators (2) how many internal flights there were in Great of local bus services. Britain in 2008; and what estimate he has made of the Since 1998, the Government have also provided rural overall number of passengers who travelled on such bus subsidy grant which helps local authorities to support flights. [301287] rural bus services in England. The following table shows the amounts paid by Paul Clark: In 2008 there were 255,000 passenger Government in each year since 1997 through bus service flights departing airports in Great Britain to fly to operators grant and rural bus subsidy grant in England: another airport in Great Britain. These flights carried 15.3 million passengers. This equates to an average of £ million 60 passengers per flight, equivalent to 64 per cent. of Bus service operators Rural bus subsidy estimated seat capacity. grant in England grant

Aviation: Fuels 1997-98 187.3 — 1998-99 222.3 32.5 Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, 1999-2000 277.4 32.5 Department for Transport how much aviation fuel he 2000-01 301.3 32.5 estimates has been used in the UK in each year since 2001-02 304.3 41.5 1997. [301288] 2002-03 317.2 47.5 2003-04 331.4 48.5 Paul Clark: The amount of aviation fuel uplifted in 2004-05 347.5 51.0 the UK in each year since 1997 is as follows: 2005-06 357.6 53.0 2006-07 367.5 54.3 Petroleum consumption (million tonnes) 2007-08 392.2 55.6 2008-09 423.2 57.0 1997 8.45 2009-10 436.6 58.5 1998 9.28 Total 4,265.9 564.4 1999 9.98 2000 10.86 Rural bus services are also supported by local authorities’ 2001 10.67 revenue support grant (RSG) funding. It is for local 2002 10.57 authorities to decide what bus services to support in 2003 10.81 their area according to local needs and priorities. 2004 11.69 2005 12.55 2006 12.69 Cheadle Hulme Station: Finance 2007 12.67 2008 12.17 Mark Hunter: To ask the Minister of State, Bus Services: Concessions Department for Transport (1) what proportion of the new £50 million allocated for station improvements will Mr. Sanders: To ask the Minister of State, be allocated to Cheadle Hulme railway station; [301077] Department for Transport what guidance his (2) what recent assessment his Department has made Department gives to local authorities seeking to reduce of the case for improvements to Cheadle Hulme their expenditure on concessionary bus fares. [301079] railway station. [301078] Mr. Khan: The Department for Transport does not provide guidance specifically on how to reduce expenditure Chris Mole: The new £50 million fund is intended for on concessionary travel. Travel concession authorities the 10 major (category B) interchange stations identified (TCAs) are required by law to reimburse bus operators as requiring urgent improvement in the Station Champions’ for carrying concessionary bus travellers, with the objective report. Cheadle Hulme is a medium staffed (category that the operators are left no better off and no worse off D) station and is therefore not included on this list. by taking part in concessionary travel schemes. A site survey was carried out on behalf of the Strategic The Department provides guidance to local authorities Rail Authority in 2005, as part of the consultation and bus operators on how to calculate appropriate strategy behind the Access for All Programme. This reimbursement, which sets out the Department’s preferred identified that Cheadle Hulme did not meet modern route for calculating reimbursement (via the use of the standards for accessibility in a number of respects, and reimbursement analysis tool). However TCAs are free recommended installation of a new footbridge and lifts to use the methodology of their choice subject to ensuring to all platforms. We currently expect this work to take consistency with the no better and no worse off objective. place during 2010-11. 263W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 264W

Climate Change Disability Aids: Accidents

Simon Hughes: To ask the Minister of State, Bob Russell: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport how many (a) Ministers Department for Transport if he will commission an and (b) civil servants from his Department will be inquiry into the number of deaths and serious injuries attending the United Nations Climate Change resulting from accidents involving powered wheelchairs Conference in Copenhagen in an official capacity. and powered scooters; and if he will make a statement. [300986] [300703]

Mr. Khan: The UK delegation will be led by the Mr. Khan: There are no plans to commission an Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change and inquiry into to the number of deaths and serious injuries his officials. There are no current plans for Ministers or involving mobility vehicles. The Department for Transport officials from the Department for Transport (DfT) to is aware that the number of mobility scooters is on the attend. Officials from DfT are in constant contact with increase and therefore it is procuring a survey to help their counterparts at the Department of Energy and assess the number of mobility scooter users and the Climate Change and will stay in touch with them extent to which their use may have injured people. throughout the negotiations to coordinate the Department’s Further, the Department is expecting to publish a public contribution to the various negotiations that will be consultation on options for change. taking place at the Conference. The Government’s aim will continue to be to balance the mobility needs of scooter users with the safety Cycling: Accidents needs of pedestrians and other road users.

Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Invalid Vehicles: Accidents Department for Transport how many traffic accidents involving cyclists were recorded in each constituency in Jeff Ennis: To ask the Minister of State, Department England in each of the last five years. [301293] for Transport how many incidents causing injury involving mobility scooters have been reported to the Paul Clark: A table showing the number of reported police in each of the last five years. [302126] personal injury road accidents involving pedal cyclists in each constituency in England in each of the last five Paul Clark: The information requested cannot be years has been deposited in the Libraries of the House. identified separately. Reported personal injury accidents Disability Aids involving mobility scooters are recorded as part of the ‘other motor vehicle’ category. Bob Russell: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport when he plans to implement London Airports the recommendations made by the review of class (a) two and (b) three powered wheelchairs and powered Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, scooters. [300702] Department for Transport what percentage of and how many passengers using (a) Heathrow Airport and (b) Mr. Khan: The Department for Transport expects to Gatwick Airport were in transit (i) between domestic take forward the review’s principal recommendations in and international flights and (ii) between international the form of a public consultation in 2010. The issues we flights in the last 12 month period for which figures are propose to consult on include future fitness to drive, available. [301290] insurance, registration and the training requirements for Class 2 and Class 3 mobility vehicle users. Paul Clark: The following table shows percentage of The Government’s aim will continue to be to balance passengers transferring between domestic and international the mobility needs of scooter users with the safety flights and between international flights at Heathrow needs of pedestrians and other road users. and Gatwick in 2008.

Passengers at Heathrow and Gatwick 2008 Heathrow Gatwick Passengers Percentage of total (million) passengers Passengers (million) Percentage of total passengers

Total passengers 66.6 — 33.4 — Of which: Transfer Domestic to International 2.7 4 1.1 3 International to International 18.1 27 1.2 4 International to Domestic 2.8 4 0.9 3 Total transfer passengers1 23.6 35 3.2 10 1 This includes domestic to domestic transfer passengers. Source: CAA Passenger Survey 265W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 266W

Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Estimated average annual car1 mileage, 1997-20082: England Department for Transport what percentage of journeys Unweighted sample size made to (a) Gatwick, (b) Heathrow, (c) Stansted and Year2 Miles (vehicles) (d) Luton airports were made by (i) train, (ii) bus and size (iii) other road vehicles in the last 12 months for which (vehicles) figures are available. [301291] 1996-98 9,450 8,356 1999-2001 9,270 9,026 Paul Clark: The following table shows the percentage 2002 9,150 7,387 of journeys made to Gatwick, Heathrow, Stansted and 2003 9,200 7,872 Luton airports that were made by train, bus/coach, 2004 9,100 7,499 tube, and other road vehicles in 2008. 2005 8,950 8,212 Air passengers who travelled to or from Gatwick, Heathrow, Stansted 2006 8,740 8,142 and Luton airports by train, bus/coach and other road vehicles in 20081 2007 8,850 7,983 Final mode Gatwick Heathrow Stansted Luton 2008 8,640 7,767 1 Rail (percentage) 30 10 26 19 Four wheel cars only 2 Data were reported for three-year intervals as shown prior to the Buses/coaches 7142114expansion of the National Travel Survey sample in 2002. (percentage) Tube (percentage) 0 16 0 0 Motor Vehicles: Exhaust Emissions Other road vehicles 63 60 52 67 (percentage) Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport what the average level of Terminating 30.1 43.0 20.4 9.7 carbon dioxide emissions in grammes per kilometre passengers2 (million) was for (a) new and (b) all cars in (i) the UK and (ii) 1 These results are based on a departure survey only. The assumption, each other EU member state in each year since 1997. for weighting purposes, is that arriving and departing passengers [301295] share the same modal characteristics. 2 This includes passengers using other modes to/from airport. Mr. Khan: A fully comprehensive dataset of fuel Source: CAA Passenger Survey efficiency data for new cars is only available for the UK and the EU from 2001 in accordance with EU Decision Motor Vehicles 1753/2000/EC. The EU Commission collects and reports average CO2 emission data for new cars sold across the EU by member state. Table 1 is taken from the latest EU Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Commission monitoring report and shows average fuel Department for Transport what the average mileage of efficiency of new cars sold in the UK and other EU a car in England was in each year since 1997. [301297] member states where data is available between 2001 and 2007 measured in grams of carbon dioxide per km Mr. Khan: The following table gives the estimated (gCO2/km). Missing data reflects the expansion of the annual vehicle mileage for cars in England for from EU to 25 member states in 2004 and to 27 in 2007 (2007 1997 to 2008, based on data from the National Travel data for Bulgaria is missing as none was submitted to Survey: the EU Commission). Data for 2008 is not yet available.

Table 1: Average fuel efficiency of new cars sold by member state Member state 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007

Austria 165.6 164.4 163.8 161.9 162.1 163.7 162.9 Belgium 163.7 161.1 158.1 156.5 155.2 153.9 152.8 Cyprus n/a n/a n/a 173.4 173.0 170.1 170.3 Czech Republic n/a n/a n/a 154.0 155.3 154.2 154.2 Denmark 172.9 170.0 169.0 165.9 163.7 162.5 159.8 Estonia n/a n/a n/a 179.0 183.7 182.7 181.6 Finland 178.1 177.2 178.3 179.8 179.5 179.2 177.3 France 159.8 156.8 155.0 153.1 152.3 149.9 149.4 Germany 179.5 177.4 175.9 174.9 173.4 172.5 169.5 Greece 166.5 167.8 168.9 168.8 167.4 166.5 165.3 Hungary n/a n/a n/a 158.4 156.3 154.6 155.0 Ireland 166.6 164.3 166.7 167.6 166.8 166.3 161.6 Italy 158.3 156.6 152.9 150.0 149.5 149.2 146.5 Latvia n/a n/a n/a 192.4 187.2 183.1 183.5 Lithuania n/a n/a n/a 187.5 186.3 163.4 176.5 Luxembourg 177.0 173.8 173.5 169.7 168.6 168.2 165.8 Malta n/a n/a n/a 148.8 150.5 145.9 147.8 Netherlands 174.0 172.4 173.5 170.9 169.9 166.7 164.8 Poland n/a n/a n/a 154.1 155.2 155.9 153.7 Portugal n/a 154.0 149.9 147.1 144.9 145.0 144.2 Romania n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 154.8 Slovakia n/a n/a n/a n/a 157.4 152.0 152.7 267W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 268W

Table 1: Average fuel efficiency of new cars sold by member state Member state 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007

Slovenia n/a n/a n/a 152.7 157.2 155.3 156.3 Spain 156.8 156.4 157.0 155.3 155.3 155.6 153.2 Sweden 200.2 198.2 198.5 197.2 193.8 188.6 181.4 UK 177.6 174.8 172.7 171.3 169.7 167.7 164.7 Source: EU Commission

It is not possible to produce figures for average CO2 Further procedures and alarms mean that checks emissions for all cars in the UK or other EU member take place while an incident is running. Procedures in states because of the relatively few years for which the national centre require operators to review incident average fuel efficiency data has been collected. “Events” every 45 minutes and alarms are tripped for every three-hour period that a variable message sign is Motor Vehicles: Fuel Oil not updated. Steps are also taken to review sign accuracy. Each Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, month, both the regional and national centres review Department for Transport what percentage change incidents to assess the overall accuracy of their sign there has been in the average level of fuel efficiency of settings, and to identify any opportunities to make cars sold in the UK in each year since 1997. [301296] improvements. Mr. Khan: The Department for Transport does not have data on the average fuel efficiency of all cars sold Pedestrian Crossings in the UK. However, a fully comprehensive dataset of fuel efficiency data for new cars is available for the UK Mr. Sanders: To ask the Minister of State, from 2001 in accordance with EU Decision 1753/2000/EC. Department for Transport what guidance his Table 1 shows average fuel efficiency of new cars sold in Department issues to local authorities on the siting of the UK between 2001 and 2008 measured in grams of pedestrian crossings. [300221] carbon dioxide per km (gCO2/km). These figures have been used to calculate the percentage change in fuel Mr. Khan: Current advice from this Department is efficiency for each year. contained in Local Transport Note (LTN) 1/95, The Table 1: Average fuel efficiency for new cars sold in the UK 2001-08 Assessment of Pedestrian Crossings and Local Transport

Fuel efficiency (gCO2/km) Annual percentage change Note 2/95, the Design of Pedestrian Crossings. 2001 177.6 -1.9 The documents can be made available in the Library 2002 174.8 -1.6 of the House and are on the internet at the following 2003 172.7 -1.2 address: 2004 171.3 -0.8 http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/ltnotes/ssessment 2005 169.7 -0.9 ofpedestriancro4033.pdf 2006 167.7 -1.2 http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/ltnotes/esignof 2007 164.7 -1.8 pedestriancrossin4034.pdf 2008 158.2 -4.0 Source: Railway Stations: Finance DVLA Motorways: Road Signs and Markings Mrs. Villiers: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport whether the funding for the Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Minister of State, station improvements referred to in his announcement Department for Transport what steps his Department on 17 November is to come from the National Station has taken to ensure that the matrix signs over Improvement Programme. [300541] motorways are as up to date as possible; and if he will make a statement. [300470] Chris Mole: The £50 million announced on 17 November Chris Mole: The Highways Agency takes a number of to tackle improvements at the 10 major interchange measures to ensure sign accuracy. stations identified for improvement in the Station The majority of signs are automatic and set by sensors Champions’ report is in addition to the existing £150 or other roadside infrastructure. As a result any message million for station improvements under the National displayed is real-time and takes account of changing Stations Improvement Programme. road conditions. Beyond the automatic signs the remaining messages Railways: Accidents are set manually by operators in either a regional or the national control centre. Mr. Clappison: To ask the Minister of State, To ensure signs are set in a timely manner, performance Department for Transport with reference to the written indicators have been put in place to monitor how quickly ministerial statement of 19 June 2009, Official Report, a message is placed on a sign. The indicator requires columns 39-40WS, on rail accidents (Grayrigg and operators in the regional centres to set or remove legends Potters Bar), when he expects an inquest into the within two minutes of an incident being confirmed. Potters Bar derailment to take place. [301147] 269W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 270W

Chris Mole: The Lord Chief Justice continues to the same. The advantages of the bi-mode option are work to identify a suitable judge for appointment by the that it will not result in delay to passengers as a locomotive Hertfordshire coroner to act as his Assistant Deputy is being attached, that it will provide a more reliable Coroner and conduct the Potters Bar inquests. The service and that it does not require potentially expensive timing of the inquests is a matter for the Coroner, or the and disruptive infrastructure work at stations to facilitate Assistant Deputy Coroner, once appointed. the attaching of a locomotive.

Road Signs and Markings Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport how much space will be Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Minister of State, allocated per seated passenger in (a) standard and (b) Department for Transport how much his Department first class on the new Intercity Express trains; and how has spent on advertising the purpose of driver location it compares with space allocations on existing rolling signs; and what assessment he has made of the public stock operating on the East Coast Main Line. [301149] awareness of such signs. [300471] Chris Mole: Uni-directional seats (those not located Chris Mole: The Highways Agency has spent £5,000 around a bay-table) on the new Super Express Trains on advertising the purpose of driver location signs. This will have approximately (a) 750mm knee-room in standard has included the production of leaflets and information class and (b) 915mm knee-room in first class. Similar on its website. seats on current Mark 4 carriages on the East Coast The Highways Agency regularly engages with its Main Line have approximately (a) 700mm knee-room customers to determine if more can be done to improve in standard class and (b) 1010mm knee-room in first their awareness of new projects and initiatives. A recent class. customer report has highlighted the lack of public Shipping: Pollution awareness of the signs and the Highways Agency is currently considering a range of options to correct this. Mr. Swire: To ask the Minister of State, Department Research carried out on trial sections of routes equipped for Transport when his Department next plans to with driver location signs showed that response times of review the national contingency plan for marine emergency service organisations were 10 per cent. quicker pollution from shipping and offshore installations. than previous responses to similar incidents. Getting [301636] the emergency services to the scene of an incident more efficiently ultimately leads to incidents being cleared Paul Clark: The National Contingency Plan for Marine more quickly. Pollution from Shipping and Offshore Installations (NCP) Roads: Stonehenge has traditionally been updated approximately every five years, to take account of lessons learned from marine pollution incidents and exercises that have arisen since Mrs. Villiers: To ask the Minister of State, the last edition. Department for Transport whether he has plans to seek to mitigate the environmental impact of the use of The next revision exercise is scheduled to commence roads passing close to Stonehenge. [300745] in late 2010 and will also include amendments to reflect machinery of government changes. Chris Mole: English Heritage has recently submitted Shipping: Safety to Wiltshire county council a planning application for its new Stonehenge Environmental Improvements Project which includes proposals to relocate the visitor centre Mr. Swire: To ask the Minister of State, Department and to close the A344 local road which currently runs for Transport what (a) conclusions were reached and immediately adjacent to the stone circle. The proposals (b) recommendations were made by the International will bring significant environmental benefits and the Maritime Organisation Sub-Committee on Dangerous Highways Agency is working closely with English Heritage Goods, Solid Cargoes and Containers in respect of the to secure the closure of the junction between the A344 safe transit of containers by sea at its meetings on 21 to and the A303 trunk road to the south east of the stones. 25 September 2009; and what steps the Government Beyond the junction itself, the closure of the A344 is a plans to take in consequence. [301606] matter for Wiltshire county council as the local highway authority. Paul Clark: The 14th meeting of the sub-committee on Dangerous Goods, Solid Cargoes and Containers Rolling Stock (DSC) considered a range of issues relating to container safety. Of particular note were the decisions reached on Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, harmonized interpretations of the International Convention Department for Transport what estimate he has made on Safe Containers (CSC) and on a series of amendments of the additional cost per vehicle of the proposed new to the guidance associated with the convention. It was Intercity Express trains which is directly attributable to also agreed to establish a correspondence group to the inclusion of a bi-mode capacity, as compared to an consider further criteria to identify defects in containers electric train operating with a diesel engine coupled for before they represent a safety hazard. non-electrified sections of track. [301146] The decisions taken by the DSC are subject to endorsement at the 87th Maritime Safety Committee Chris Mole: The Department for Transport’s analysis (MSC) in May 2010. The Government plan to support suggests that the costs of the bi-mode train, and the the outcome of DSC at the MSC and push for their electric train followed by diesel loco-haulage, are around adoption internationally. 271W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 272W

Stockport Station: Finance Earlier this month, the ODA published a map showing that many suppliers from across the UK were winning Mark Hunter: To ask the Minister of State, Department work both directly with the ODA and within its supply for Transport what timetable his Department plans for chain. Details are available in business section of the the distribution of new funding for station improvements London 2012 website: to Stockport railway station. [301075] http://www.london2012.com/get-involved/business-network/ index.php Chris Mole: We are expecting money to be spent in Control Period 4 (up to 2014) on the 10 major interchange stations, including Stockport, which have been identified for priority improvement by the Station Champions. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT We anticipate a rolling programme of improvements including third party funding from industry stakeholders Arts Council of England and local government which may be more forthcoming as we emerge from recession. Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mark Hunter: To ask the Minister of State, Culture, Media and Sport what he expects the (a) final Department for Transport what proportion of the new severance and (b) pension arrangements to be for the £50 million allocated for station improvements will be outgoing executive director of Arts Council England in allocated to Stockport railway station. [301076] the West Midlands. [301897]

Chris Mole: Network Rail will take the lead in deciding Margaret Hodge: This is a matter for Arts Council the proportion of the new £50 million fund that will be England, which operates independently of Government. spent on Stockport station, although the Department I have therefore asked Arts Council England’s chief for Transport will need to approve the plans, which will executive to consider the question raised by my hon. be subject to a satisfactory business case and the prospect Friend and to write to him direct. of an adequate financial return. We will also challenge the industry and local government to raise part of the Copies of the reply will be placed in the Libraries of money required for each of the stations themselves. both Houses.

Coastal Areas: Finance

WORK AND PENSIONS Mr. Hunt: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Poverty: Children Media and Sport which parliamentary constituencies received funding through the Sea Change programme in (a) 2007-08 and (b) 2008-09; and what the Mr. Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for monetary value was of each grant. [302006] Work and Pensions when she expects the childhood deprivation data which appeared in her Department’s annual Opportunity for All reports to be published on Margaret Hodge: The Sea Change Programme, which her Department’s website. [302011] has allocated £38 million to 32 resorts, has only been in place since 1 April 2008. The parliamentary constituencies Helen Goodman: The vast majority of data contained which received funding in 2008-09 (Wave 1 of the in Opportunity for All is in the public domain and programme), and the value of each grant is set out in Secretary of State is currently considering whether there the following table: is value in publishing this report given the range of other documents covering similar issues. Parliamentary constituency Value of grant (£) Data on children in low income households and in Blackpool South 4,000,000 families in low income and material deprivation are Dover 3,850,000 published in the Households Below Average Income Torbay 1,542,531 report, which is available on the Department for Work Totnes 705,001 and Pensions’ website. Berwick-upon-Tweed 1,000,000 Bexhill and Battle 1,000,000 Weston-Super-Mare 951,447 Bognor Regis and Littlehampton 480,800 OLYMPICS Bournemouth East 455,000 Teignbridge 376,676 Olympic Games 2012: Contracts Torridge and West Devon 1100,000 Blackpool North and Fleetwood 230,000 Mr. Hunt: To ask the Minister for the Olympics how North Thanet 230,000 many Olympic contracts have been awarded to (a) UK North Devon 230,000 registered and (b) other firms to date. [301961] Beverley and Holderness 230,000 Tynemouth 229,525 Tessa Jowell: To date, the Olympic Delivery Authority Total 14,610,980 (ODA) has awarded contracts to 1,081 suppliers, of 1 Development Grant these all but 17 are businesses registered in the UK. 2 Feasibility Grant 273W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 274W

Departmental Conferences Prior to the Gambling Act 2005 coming into force, self-exclusion arrangements were put in place on a Mr. Hunt: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, voluntary basis by gambling operators and no central Media and Sport how much his Department spent on data were collected on their use. conferences in 2008-09. [302009] Adult Family Number of exclusions recorded by gamingentertainment Mr. Simon: My Department spent £133,398.30 on operators1 centres centres holding conferences in 2008-09. This figure includes running costs, room hire, hospitality and accommodation Self exclusions 2,254 201 charges. Known breaches of self exclusion 132 9 Number of individuals who cancelled their 513 67 Departmental Meetings self exclusion after minimum exclusion period 1 The numbers of people who have self excluded and the numbers of people who have cancelled their self-exclusion may be lower than Norman Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for these figures as individuals may have self excluded from more than Culture, Media and Sport which (a) individuals other one venue and thus been counted more than once. The number of than Ministerial colleagues and officials of his breaches represents the numbers of separate incidents, rather than the Department and (b) organisations he met in an official number of individuals. capacity in the week commencing 9 November 2009. [301156] Mr. Don Foster: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Bradshaw: In the week commencing 9 November, Culture, Media and Sport how many gaming machines I met members of the International Press Institute; of each category have been located in (a) betting shops, David Davies, the chair of the Listed Events Review; (b) bingo halls, (c) family entertainment centres, (d) diplomats at the German embassy and young artists at adult gaming centres and (e) pubs, clubs and other the unveiling of an art work to commemorate the 20th social venues in each of the last five years. [301829] anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall; members of the House of Lords Communications Committee at a formal hearing of the Committee; representatives of the Mr. Sutcliffe: Prior to September 2007, the Gaming Royal Institute of British Architects and the Commission Board for Great Britain issued certificates to those who for Architecture and the Built Environment and Britain’s sold and maintained gaming machines. Local authorities architectural community at a reception at 10 Downing issued permits for arcades, family entertainment centres Street; and organisers of the London Jazz Festival at a and other premises that had amusement with prizes parliamentary reception. (AWP) machines; and magistrates issued permits for clubs, pubs and other premises with alcohol licence Departmental Statistics permitting consumption on the premises. The Gaming Board did not formally collect statistical data about the Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for number of machines. In 2003, using industry data, it Culture, Media and Sport what proportion of the estimated that there were 255,000 gaming machines statistical datasets collected by his Department it lawfully in operation in Great Britain. publishes. [302346] Since 1 September 2007, under the Gambling Act the Mr. Simon: As a matter of course, the Department provision of gaming machines has been regulated by for Culture, Media and Sport publishes all of its datasets the Gambling Commission. The table, using figures which meet the definition of ‘official statistics’ set out in supplied by the British Amusement Catering Trade the Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007. The Association (BACTA), shows the approximate number statistics are published in accordance with the requirements of each categorised machine and their typical locations set out in the ‘Code of Practice for Official Statistics’ for each year since March 2008. and the ‘National Statistician’s Guidance on the Approximate2 Approximate2 Presentation and Publication of Official Statistics’. number of number of machines at machines at Gaming Machines Category Typical location1 March 2008 March 2009

A Regional casino only 0 0 Mr. Don Foster: To ask the Secretary of State for B1 Casino 2,000 2,500 Culture, Media and Sport how many self-exclusions have been (a) in operation and (b) breached in B2 Betting shop 27,000 27,500 B3 Bingo halls and 12,000 11,800 relation to gaming machines in each of the last five Adult Gaming years. [301769] Centres (AGCs) B4 Registered clubs 17,000 15,000 Mr. Sutcliffe: The requirement for licensed gambling C Pubs, AGCs and 131,000 121,000 operators to put into effect procedures for self exclusion Family was introduced in September 2007 by the Gambling Entertainment Commission. Figures on self exclusion were published Centres (FECs) for the first time in the Commission’s Industry Statistics D AGCs and FECs 72,000 71,000 for 2008-09. These are available at 1 A full list of permitted locations is available on the Gambling Commission’s website (http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/) www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk 2 Numbers are the British Amusement Catering Trade Association’s and can be seen in the following table. estimates 275W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 276W

Horserace Totalisator Board Mr. Sutcliffe: The figures in the following table are based upon information provided to Sport England by Mr. Hunt: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, national governing bodies at the time their 2009-13 Media and Sport which external parties he has met to awards were made in December 2008. discuss the proposed sale of the Tote. [302007] For some NGBs (highlighted by asterisks) an exact Grow/Sustain/Excel breakdown was difficult to determine Mr. Sutcliffe: So far, the external parties with whom I as their plans for the sport to grow and sustain participation, have discussed the proposed sale of the Tote have been in particular, are hard to separate. In these cases, the Paul Roy and Nic Coward of Racing Enterprises Ltd., figures are assumptions made by Sport England based and the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies). on wider information contained in the Whole Sport Sport England: Finance Plans. As a result of some amendments made to the final Mr. Don Foster: To ask the Secretary of State for figures in contractual discussions between Sport England Culture, Media and Sport how much funding has been and the NGBs concerned, there are some minor allocated by Sport England to each of the national discrepancies between the Grow/Sustain/Excel figures governing bodies for the (a) Grow, (b) Sustain and in the breakdown and the actual final awards made. (c) Excel element of Sport England’s strategy. [301765]

£ Actual award Sport Governing body Grow Sustain Excel Total figure

Angling Angling Development 0 1,414,632 147,274 1,561,906 1,561,906 Board Archery* Grand National 428,995 428,994 0 857,989 857,989 Archery Association Athletics UK Athletics 4,304,463 11,256,229 4,886,477 20,447,169 20,447,169 Badminton Badminton England 4,280,592 11,217,488 5,301,923 20,800,003 20,800,000 Baseball and softball Baseball Softball UK 1,441,249 1,258,751 0 2,700,000 2,700,000 Basketball* England Basketball 4,100,000 4,100,000 0 8,200,000 8,200,000 Boccia* C P Sport 408,021 408,020 0 816,041 816,041 Bowls* English Indoor 378,375 378,375 0 756,750 756,750 Bowling Association Boxing Amateur Boxing 846,000 2,820,000 1,034,000 4,700,000 4,700,000 Association Canoeing British Canoe Union 1,785,640 3,484,627 3,200,310 8,470,577 8,470,577 Cricket England and Wales 7,571,420 23,233,082 7,198,856 38,003,357 38,003,357 Cricket Board Cycling British Cycling 5,680,000 11,704,354 6,903,654 23,244,840 23,244,832 Equestrian British Equestrian 638,436 2,598,004 1,031,562 4,268,002 4,268,002 Federation Fencing British Fencing 156,212 624,848 260,353 1,041,413 1,041,413 Association Football The Football 5,852,096 17,546,904 2,236,000 25,635,000 25,635,000 Association Goalball* British Blind Sport 177,000 177,000 0 354,000 354,000 Golf England Golf 1,737,475 7,890,375 3,297,880 12,925,730 12,851,500 Partnership Gymnastics British Gymnastics 1,964,786 6,248,822 3,174,873 11,388,481 11,388,481 Handball* England Handball 322,650 322,650 0 645,300 645,300 Hockey England Hockey 1,786,260 7,667,440 2,046,300 11,500,000 11,511,000 Judo British Judo 2,418,280 5,924,041 1,899,680 10,242,001 10,242,001 Association Lacrosse English Lacrosse 909,700 920,700 380,600 2,211,000 2,210,993 Association Modern pentathlon Pentathlon GB 32,750 287,789 391,282 711,821 886,496 Mountaineering British 227,500 822,350 238,000 1,287,850 1,287,850 Mountaineering Council Movement and dance Exercise Movement 260,568 480,984 0 741,552 741,552 and Dance Partnership Netball England Netball 4,172,855 6,906,070 6,579,191 17,658,116 17,658,116 Orienteering British Orienteering 1,114,000 446,000 715,000 2,275,000 2,275,000 Federation Rounders Rounders England 1,148,180 1,051,820 0 2,200,000 2,200,000 Rowing British Rowing 2,775,344 5,099,575 1,225,081 9,100,000 9,100,000 Rugby League Rugby Football 5,748,237 15,593,986 8,066,119 29,408,341 29,408,341 League Rugby Union Rugby Football Union 7,837,452 16,868,791 6,018,665 30,724,908 31,219,004 277W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 278W

£ Actual award Sport Governing body Grow Sustain Excel Total figure

Sailing Royal Yachting 748,600 6,317,050 2,554,350 9,620,000 9,619,542 Association Shooting GB Target Shooting 0 710,000 40,000 750,000 750,000 Federation Snowsport Snowsport England 447,050 461,790 76,160 985,000 985,000 Squash England Squash 2,671,050 5,756,950 4,668,192 13,096,192 13,096,192 Swimming Amateur Swimming 5,186,570 8,305,378 7,378,346 20,870,294 20,875,000 Association Table tennis English Table Tennis 1,437,308 5,537,951 2,326,144 9,301,404 9,301,404 Association Taekwondo* To be confirmed 375,000 375,000 0 750,000 750,000 Tennis Lawn Tennis 6,359,909 15,457,080 4,983,011 26,800,000 26,800,000 Association Triathlon British Triathlon 1,086,401 2,165,006 1,448,456 4,699,863 4,700,000 Federation Volleyball Volleyball England 1,387,347 3,419,313 793,340 5,600,000 5,600,000 Waterskiing British Water Ski 102,824 206,049 642,500 951,373 951,373 Weightlifting* British Weight Lifters’ 304,547 304,547 0 609,094 609,094 Association Wheelchair basketball GB Wheelchair 120,268 479,602 121,873 721,743 727,683 Basketball Association Wheelchair rugby* GB Wheelchair Rugby 240,000 240,000 0 480,000 480,000 Wrestling British Wrestling 112,060 144,176 75,588 331,824 331,824 Association 91,083,470 219,062,595 91,341,041 401,487,103 402,102,952

HOME DEPARTMENT Mr. Hanson: This is a matter for the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC), and the hon. Animal Experiments Member’s query has been passed to them for consideration.

Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for the Identity Cards Home Department whether he permits rabbits to be tested more than once in pyrogen tests under the Patrick Mercer: To ask the Secretary of State for the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986. [300322] Home Department how many individuals who are not required to have a compulsory identity card have Meg Hillier: The re-use of rabbits in pyrogen tests is applied for a voluntary national identity card. [301002] permitted under the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986. Consent for re-use of animals in procedures is Meg Hillier: My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, generally conditional upon the animal having suffered announced in a written ministerial statement on 30 June no significant adverse effects as a consequence of the 2009, Official Report, column 11WS that the introduction first use, and its not having been subjected to any of identity cards for all British citizens will be voluntary, intervention which compromises its suitability as a subject including those issued to airside workers at Manchester for the second or subsequent protocol. Authority to and London City airports. re-use any animal that has experienced significant adverse Since 20 October, up to and including 24 November, effects in its previous use is unlikely to be granted. 1,107 eligible volunteers, from the Greater Manchester area, London and the two airports, have made an Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for the appointment to enrol for an identity card. Home Department how many facilities are licensed under the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986 to Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for carry out pyrogen tests on rabbits. [300323] the Home Department how many individuals who are not required to have a compulsory identity card and do Meg Hillier: Home Office records show that four not work for his Department, its executive agencies, or establishments licensed under the Animals (Scientific sponsored non-departmental public bodies, have voluntarily Procedures) Act 1986 have completed statistical returns applied for a voluntary national identity card. [301936] during the last three years reporting pyrogen tests on rabbits. Meg Hillier: My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, announced in a written ministerial statement on 30 June Ian Tomlinson 2009, Official Report, column 11WS that the introduction of identity cards for all British citizens will be voluntary, Mr. Fallon: To ask the Secretary of State for the including those issued to airside workers at Manchester Home Department when he expects the Independent and London City airports. Police Complaints Commission report on the death of Since 20 October, up to and including 24 November, Ian Tomlinson during the G20 protests to be 1,107 eligible volunteers, from the Greater Manchester published. [301815] area, London and the two airports, have made an 279W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 280W appointment to enrol for an identity card. The information they are available electronically online. Results are regularly held on the National Identity Register does not include published on the Department’s website and can be the basis of an individual’s eligibility to apply for an found at the following location: identity card. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/publications/our- service-to-you/ Identity Cards: Greater Manchester Similarly, the results for the UK Border Agency can be found at: Mr. Leech: To ask the Secretary of State for the http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/ Home Department with reference to the answer of 11 aboutus/public-attitudes-surveys/ November 2009, Official Report, column 430W on identity cards, how many people in Greater Manchester have Results for the Identity and Passport Service can be requested an identity card; and what proportion of the found at: total eligible population of Manchester this represents. http://www.ips.gov.uk/cps/rde/xchg/ips_live/hs.xsl/22htm [300339] The most recent sets of polling results are due to be published in the same locations before the end of the Meg Hillier: Up to and including 20 November, year. approximately 2,445 people from the Greater Manchester area have expressed an interest in continuing to be Police Custody updated about the National Identity Service via the Early Interest Website. Mike Penning: To ask the Secretary of State for the Since 20 October, 749 people have made an appointment Home Department how many police custody cells there to enrol in Greater Manchester for an identity card. are in (a) Dacorum and (b) Hemel Hempstead; what From 30 November, in Greater Manchester, his plans are for the future number of such cells in each approximately 1.7 million people will be eligible to area; and if he will make a statement. [301774] apply for an identity card. Mr. Hanson: The management of the police estate Motorcycles and the allocation of resources in the borough of Dacorum and Hemel Hempstead is a matter for the chief constable Mr. Crabb: To ask the Secretary of State for the of Hertfordshire and Hertfordshire police authority, Home Department in what circumstances (a) police who are responsible for assessing local needs. and (b) Highways Agency traffic officers may order groups of two or more motorcyclists travelling together on public highways to (i) travel separately on the same route and (ii) take separate routes. [301443] SCOTLAND

Mr. Hanson: There is no specific power to split up Christmas groups of motorcyclists. The police and on certain roads Highways Agency Traffic Officers have a general Mr. Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for power to direct a person driving or propelling any Scotland how many Christmas parties his Department vehicle, including a motorcycle, to stop, proceed in, or plans to host in 2009; what has been budgeted for each keep to a particular line of traffic. It is an offence not to such reception; what estimate he has made of the comply with such a direction. Exercise of the power to proportion of (a) lamb, (b) beef, (c) chicken, (d) direct vehicles on particular occasions and in particular pork, (e) turkey, (f) other meats, (g) vegetables, (h) circumstances is an operational matter for the police fruit and (i) alcohol to be served at each such function and Highways Agency. It may be to reduce or prevent which is produced in the UK; and if he will make a crime, to increase safety, or to regulate traffic. statement. [300867] Mr. Crabb: To ask the Secretary of State for the Ann McKechin: My Department does not plan to Home Department whether guidance has been host any Christmas parties in 2009. provided for police forces on the policing of groups of two or more motorcyclists travelling in convoy on public highways. [301444] Departmental Cost Effectiveness

Mr. Hanson: Neither the Home Office nor the Dr. Cable: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland Association of Chief Police Officers has issued such what efficiency savings projects his Department put in guidance. Policing of roads is an operational matter for place under the Operational Efficiency Programme; on individual chief officers of police. what date each such project was initiated; how much each such project was expected to contribute to Opinion Polls departmental savings; how much had been saved through each such project on the latest date for which Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the figures are available; and if he will make a statement. Home Department if he will place in the Library copies [300938] of the reports of all opinion polling commissioned by his Department in the last 12 months. [301264] Ann McKechin: The Scotland Office is part of Ministry of Justice (MoJ). The MoJ’s contribution towards the Mr. Woolas: The Home Office does not publish hard Operational Efficiency Programme will be announced copies of the opinion polling results to save expense but in the pre-Budget report. 281W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 282W

Departmental Disclosure of Information Expenditure (£)

Norman Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for 2006-07 4,692.76 Scotland how many allegations of victimisation for 2007-08 3,987.98 whistleblowing have been made to his Department by 2008-09 4,234.10 its staff since 6 June 2006. [301562]

Ann McKechin: The Scotland Office has received no allegations of victimisation for whistleblowing since 6 NORTHERN IRELAND June 2006. Climate Change

Departmental Mobile Phones Simon Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many (a) Ministers and (b) Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for civil servants from his Department will be attending the Scotland how much his Department spent on (a) United Nations Climate Change Conference in purchasing and (b) operating (i) Blackberrys and (ii) Copenhagen in an official capacity. [301032] other mobile telephones in 2006 to 2009. [300460] Paul Goggins: No Ministers or officials from my Department will be attending the United Nations Climate Ann McKechin: Information is not available in the Change Conference in Copenhagen in an official capacity. form requested. The total costs of Blackberrys and other mobile phones, including the cost of equipment, Departmental Pay call charges and line rental, are set out in the following table. John Mason: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what (a) bonuses and (b) incentives £ have been paid to (i) consultants and (ii) contractors Blackberrys Other mobile phones engaged by his Department in each of the last three years. [300645] 2006-07 3,679.12 3,460.19 2007-08 2,073.78 3,983.52 Paul Goggins: The Northern Ireland Office, including 2008-09 8,311.30 2,107.50 its arms length bodies and the Public Prosecution Service Northern Ireland, has made no bonus or incentive Departmental Pay payments to (i) consultants and (ii) contractors in each of the last three years.

John Mason: To ask the Secretary of State for John Mason: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what (a) bonuses and (b) incentives have Northern Ireland what (a) bonuses and (b) incentives been paid to (i) consultants and (ii) contractors have been paid to (i) consultants and (ii) contractors engaged by his Department in each of the last three engaged by executive agencies and non-departmental years. [300735] public bodies for which his Department is responsible in each of the last three years. [300646] Ann McKechin: The Scotland Office has paid no bonuses or incentives to consultants or contractors. Paul Goggins: No executive agencies of the Northern Ireland Office (NIO) have made bonus or incentive Departmental Scientists payments to (i) consultants and (ii) contractors in each of the last three years. Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for The NIO does not hold this information for its non- Scotland how many (a) scientific advisers and (b) civil departmental public bodies (NDPBs). This is an operational servants in scientific posts there are in his Department. matter for each of the NIO’s executive NDPBs, who [302020] operate independently of Government. I would encourage the hon. Member to write to the respective Chief Executives. Ann McKechin: The Scotland Office has no scientific Details of the NIO’s NDPBs can be found on page advisers or civil servants in scientific posts. seven of the NIO 2009 Departmental Report at http://www.nio.gov.uk/northern_ireland_office_ departmental_report_2009.pdf Departmental Taxis

Ian Stewart: To ask the Secretary of State for WALES Scotland what contracts his Department has with private hire taxi companies; and what expenditure his Departmental Pay Department has incurred against each such contract in each of the last three years. [300835] Dr. Cable: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales how many staff in his Department received bonus Ann McKechin: The Scotland Office have one contract payments in 2008-09; what proportion of the total in place to provide private hire taxi services in Edinburgh. workforce they represented; what the total amount of The costs in each of the last three years are shown in the bonuses paid was; what the largest single payment was; following table: and if he will make a statement. [300569] 283W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 284W

Mr. Hain: In 2008-09, five staff in the Wales Office Sarah McCarthy-Fry: No estimate has been made of received end of year appraisal bonuses, to reward the cost of providing official cares to Minsters and outstanding performance, representing 9 per cent. of officials in the last 12 months. In 2008-09, £582,000 was the workforce. The total figure paid in bonuses was spent on the provision of official cars for Ministers and £6,000, a non-pensionable lump sum. Each of the five officials in HM Treasury. members of staff received £1,200, a fixed amount set by the Ministry of Justice. Departmental Recruitment Departmental Theft

Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Jenkin: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Wales how many of his Department’s officials have (a) what proportion of jobs advertised by his Department been reprimanded, (b) had their contract of in the last 12 months were online only applications; employment terminated and (c) been prosecuted for and what provision his Department makes for those theft of departmental property in each of the last three wishing to apply for jobs in his Department who do not years; and what items were stolen in each case. [300966] have access to the internet. [301542]

Mr. Hain: None. Sarah McCarthy-Fry: From November 2008 to October Departmental Working Hours 2009, 4 per cent. of Treasury recruitment campaigns only accepted online applications. In these instances, a Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for telephone support number and email address were provided Wales how many and what proportion of staff of his to assist candidates who had difficulties accessing the Department work flexibly or part-time; and what his online application system. Department’s policy is on making jobs available on a All other vacancies allowed candidates to submit job-share or flexible basis. [301333] application forms via email or hard copy. Mr. Hain: The Wales Office employs a total of five staff on a flexible or part-time working contract, which Departmental Telephone Services makes up 8 per cent. of the total workforce. The Wales Office encourages flexible working. In line Mr. Oaten: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer with the MOJ flexible working policy, all Wales Office if he will consider the merits of introducing an posts are open to applicants on a job share or reduced automatic callback request feature for callers to his hours basis. Department’s telephone helplines in order to minimise the cost to callers. [301904]

TREASURY Sarah McCarthy-Fry: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave him on 26 October 2009, Official Report, Child Tax Credit column 74W. HM Treasury has no plans to introduce an automatic callback facility. Dr. Kumar: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many families in (a) the UK, (b) England, (c) the North East and (d) Middlesbrough South and East Gurkhas: Pensions Cleveland constituency have claimed child tax credits in each year since their introduction. [301816] Jo Swinson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr. Timms: Estimates of the average number of whether he has made an estimate of the cost to the recipient families and their entitlements to tax credits, Exchequer of providing welfare benefits and pensions by Government office region, local authority and on terms equivalent to those of the armed forces parliamentary constituency, for each year between 2003-04 pension scheme for those Gurkha ex-servicemen who and 2007-08, are available in the HM Revenue and retired prior to 1 July 1997; and if he will make a Customs (HMRC) publications ‘Child and Working statement. [300422] Tax Credits Statistics Finalised Annual Awards. Geographical Analyses’, available at: Mr. Kevan Jones [holding answer 23 November 2009]: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- I have been asked to reply. stats.htm There have been no recent estimates made of the cost The same information for 2008-09 is not yet available of welfare benefits for those former members of the as awards have not yet been finalised. However, estimates Brigade of Gurkhas and their dependants who have of the number of recipient families with tax credits, already settled in the UK or may choose to do so as a based on provisional awards, as at 1 April 2009, are result of the discretions announced earlier this year. available in the HMRC snapshot publication ‘Child and Nor has there been any estimate of the total cost of Working Tax Credits Statistics. Geographical analyses. welfare benefits for those Gurkhas still serving who April 2009’, available at the same web address. choose to settle in the UK when they leave the armed Departmental Official Cars forces. When the publication of the revised guidance was Norman Baker: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced in April 2009, it was estimated, following what estimate he has made of the cost to his Department cross-Government consultation, that the likely annual of providing official cars for the use of (a) Ministers cost of allowing all former Gurkhas to settle in the UK and (b) officials in the last 12 months. [301172] would be £1.4 billion. 285W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 286W

The cost of providing retired Gurkhas with Armed Sarah Teather: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Forces Pension Scheme (AFPS) equivalent pension benefits (1) what average annual income each homeowner who for all pensionable service before 1 July 1997 has been rented out a spare room or rooms in their property estimated at £1.5 billion over 20 years. obtained from such rents in the latest 12 month period for which information is available; [301062] Housing: Construction (2) how many homeowners in each region are renting out a room in their property; [301063] Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Chancellor of the (3) what the tax revenue to the Exchequer from Exchequer (1) what steps his Department is taking to homeowners renting out a room in their property was stimulate the house building industry; [301134] in each of the last five years. [301064] (2) what plans he has to assist the house building Mr. Timms: All taxes are kept under review, with any industry in the next two years. [301137] changes announced by the Chancellor as part of the Budget process. Sarah McCarthy-Fry: At Budget 2009, the Government announced a £600 million housing package to stimulate Based on the Family Resources Survey, HM Revenue housing development and boost capacity in the house- and Customs (HMRC) estimate that the average annual building industry.On 29 June, the Government announced income obtained from renting out a room was £3,000 in in Building Britain’s Future that they are investing a 2007-08. Estimated numbers of homeowners renting further £1.5 billion over the next two years to build an out rooms by region are shown in the following table. extra 20,000 new energy efficient, good quality, social and affordable homes, and a further 10,000 additional Government office region Number of homeowners homes for private sale. North East 1,200 Taken together, over £900 million will be allocated North West 5,600 over the next two years via the Kickstart Housing Yorkshire and Humberside 4,500 Delivery Programme to unlock development on currently East Midlands 4,200 stalled housing sites. We expect an additional 22,000 West Midlands 6,100 new homes, of which up to 8,000 will be affordable, to East of England 11,600 be delivered with support from these programmes. £340 London 40,200 million in funding will also be made available to local South East 25,800 authorities to deliver new social housing at higher energy South West 20,300 efficiency standards, expected to deliver up to 3,900 new Wales 3,700 homes. Scotland 5,800 This is in addition to previous announcements in Northern Ireland 1,000 September 2008 of support to the house-building industry Total 130,000 and first-time buyers, including the temporary stamp duty land tax holiday and the provision of £300 million HMRC’s administrative systems do not hold sufficiently in funding for HomeBuy Direct, and the Government’s detailed information to estimate the tax revenue attributable fiscal stimulus at pre-Budget report 2008. to renting out a room. Estimates of the cost of the rent-a-room income tax relieve are provided in ‘Tax Private Finance Initiative ready reckoner and tax reliefs, published alongside the annual pre-Budget report and available on the HM Treasury’s website. Dr. Cable: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer which projects funded under the private finance Taxation: Low Incomes initiative have received loans from the (a) European Investment Bank and (b) Infrastructure Finance Unit; Mr. Austin Mitchell: To ask the Chancellor of the what the amount of such loans was; and in how many Exchequer if he will estimate the tax cost of exempting cases such a loan represented the single largest from (a) income tax and (b) national insurance contribution to the cost of a project. [301612] contributions liability those earning the national minimum wage. [301505] Ian Pearson: The Treasury’s ‘Infrastructure Finance Unit’ has lent £120 million to the Greater Manchester Mr. Timms: It is not possible to provide a reliable Waste PFI; the largest contribution for this project estimate because of the information requirements and came from the European Investment Bank who lent the behavioural effects it would produce. £182 million. Details of the Bank’s other lending are available from its website The introduction of an exemption for income tax and disregard for NICs would have significant behavioural www.eib.org/projects/loans/regions/european-union/gb.htm effects as it would introduce a cliff edge to the taxation of employees, and would mean that the personal allowance Private Rented Housing could be used to offset other income. In addition, a disregard for national insurance purposes would have Willie Rennie: To ask the Chancellor of the serious implications for contributory benefit entitlement. Exchequer if he will bring forward legislative proposals The alternate approach would be to increase the to increase to £9,000 the income tax threshold for income tax personal allowance and primary threshold income earned through renting a room in a property. for class 1 NICs to the annual level of pay received by [301452] someone working full-time at the NMW. The cost of 287W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 288W this can be determined from HM Treasury’s “Tax ready Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence reckoner and tax reliefs”, the next edition of which will what provision his Department makes for compensation be published as part of the 2009 Pre-Budget Report for British soldiers who incur severe groin injuries whilst supplementary documents on 9 December 2009. serving in Helmand Province in Afghanistan. [301910]

Mr. Kevan Jones: The Armed Forces and Reserve Forces (Compensation Scheme) Order 2005 makes provision DEFENCE of compensation for all members and former members of the Regular Armed Forces or Reserve Forces should Afghanistan and Iraq: Peacekeeping Operations they be injured, become ill or die as a result of service. Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Awards are tariff based depending upon the nature Defence how many British armed forces personnel have and severity of the injury. There is no standard provision received serious groin injuries in (a) Afghanistan and for particular types of injury or theatre of operation. (b) Iraq since 2007. [301908] Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Kevan Jones: The Ministry of Defence publishes Defence what Quick Impact Projects his Department the numbers of personnel categorised as Very Seriously has (a) supported and (b) participated in in the Babaji Injured and Seriously Injured as a result of Operations area of Helmand Province since 2001. [301911] Telic and Herrick on its website Mr. Bob Ainsworth: There has been no stabilisation www.mod.uk activity in the Babaji area of Helmand Province before The figures are updated fortnightly. In addition, we August of 2009, as up until the recent clearance operations, are committed to publishing on a quarterly basis the civilian-military teams were unable to gain access, due numbers of service personnel who have suffered limb to the security situation there. The term “Quick Impact amputations as a result of injuries sustained while on Projects” is no longer used. However, we do provide operational deployment. However, in order both to commanders with the ability to address immediate, protect the identities of small numbers of patients and tactical and local, consent/stabilisation issues in Babaji to maintain operational security for the effectiveness of and elsewhere in theatre via the Commanders Stabilisation our protective countermeasures, we do not routinely Fund (CSF). Medium and longer term initiatives in publish VSI and SI sub-classified by other types of theatre (including Babaji) are the responsibility of the physical injury. Provincial Reconstruction Team which is, in turn, the Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations responsibility of the FCO.

Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Air Force Defence what steps his Department is taking to increase the level of protection provided for translators Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for engaged by UK forces in Afghanistan. [300332] Defence how many hours Royal Air Force pilots spent transporting dignitaries in each of the last 12 months. Mr. Bob Ainsworth: We take our responsibilities towards [302002] locally employed staff in Afghanistan very seriously and have in place a number of measures to reduce the Bill Rammell: For the purposes of this question we risks they face. Security of all staff is kept under review have defined dignitaries to be Government Ministers, and actively managed, and staff are encouraged to raise other parliamentarians and members of the Royal family. any concerns. We are unable to provide specific details Dignitaries have been transported by RAF aircraft about these measures, as disclosure would, or would be on a number of occasions over the last 12 months. The likely to, prejudice their capability, effectiveness and number of hours that have been spent by RAF pilots security. transporting dignitaries is not held centrally and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many Chinook helicopters (a) have been Air Force: Training sent to Afghanistan in the last six months and (b) are planned to be sent for support operations in the next Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for six months. [301446] Defence how many hours Royal Air Force pilots spent undergoing training in each of the last 12 months. Bill Rammell: I am not able to give details of the [302001] numbers of helicopters delivered to Afghanistan because the release of this information would, or would be likely Bill Rammell: The centralised collation to record to, prejudice the capability, effectiveness, or security of flying hours ceased in 2007-08. This information could our armed forces. be obtained only from individuals in squadrons or However, since November 2006 we have increased the training establishments throughout the Royal Air Force number of airframes by 79 per cent. and flying hours by at disproportionate cost. 95 per cent. We are also converting eight Chinook Mk 3 aircraft to a support helicopter role, with the first of Armed Forces: Allergies these aircraft being made available for training before the end of this year, and the remaining seven being Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for delivered to Joint Helicopter Command by the end of Defence (1) what his policy is on the eligibility of 2010. This will allow us to deliver more Chinooks to people with nut allergies for service in the armed forces; Afghanistan during 2010. [301607] 289W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 290W

(2) what estimate he has made of the number of Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for service personnel in each armed service who have nut Defence what special ration packs are provided to the allergies; [301608] armed forces to meet specific dietary requirements of (3) whether members of the armed forces with a service personnel. [301611] declared nut allergy are allowed to serve on operations; Mr. Kevan Jones: The 24 hour operational ration [301609] pack, which is available for operations, exercises and (4) if he will consider the merits of providing special training, includes the following variants: General Purpose, ration packs for members of the armed forces who have which is suitable for personnel without specific dietary nut allergies. [301610] requirements; Halal; Sikh/Hindu; and Vegetarian, which is also suitable for Kosher diets. Mr. Kevan Jones: It is our policy that armed forces Armed Forces: Housing personnel should be recruited to be fully fit for deployment worldwide on operations. For this reason, the services Nick Harvey: To ask the Secretary of State for do not recruit or commission personnel with existing Defence how many families have been evicted from medical conditions which require special diets, such as service family accommodation for failing to vacate the those with nut allergies. We currently have no plans to premises during the agreed 93-day notice to vacate review this policy. period in each of the last five years; and for what This policy is intended to protect such individuals reason each family was being asked to vacate premises. from military circumstances which may adversely impact [301862] upon their condition and to ensure the effectiveness of the armed forces. Although it may be possible to Mr. Kevan Jones: Service Family Accommodation accommodate the special dietary requirements of those (SFA) is provided to accommodate entitled Service with nut allergies in a UK-based unit, or possibly on a personnel and their families. When occupants cease to large ship or at a major overseas base, we cannot be entitled to SFA and do not vacate, the Department is guarantee to provide a special diet in the field or when required to take steps to recover possession of the deployed on operations, and individuals are recruited property. In the first instance DE will write to the on the basis that they will be able to deploy world-wide. occupant advising that they are required to vacate the In such circumstances, it would be quite wrong to run property within 93 days. DE will be as flexible as risks which could impact on the individual and his or possible and will extend this so as to accommodate her colleagues on operations. In some cases, personnel children’s schooling, holidays, etc. or to allow occupants will depend on food supplied locally, and our ability to the maximum possible time to secure alternative assure nut-free status would not always be possible—as accommodation arrangements. would certainly be the case if an individual were to be The number of eviction orders served on occupants captured by enemy forces, for example. of SFA in Great Britain up to April 2008 and the UK The single services manage individuals who develop thereafter in the last five years is set out in the following nut allergies during their service careers according to table. their specific operational requirements and each case will be considered on an individual basis. While we will Number of eviction orders make every effort to retain in-service individuals who 2004 110 subsequently develop this and similar conditions, provided 2005 102 that there are worthwhile military roles for them to 2006 62 fulfil, they may have to be re-graded and will probably 2007 84 not be able to deploy on operations. Again, this will 2008 113 depend on the severity of the individual’s allergy; those 2009 (to 24 November) 68 with life-threatening allergies will almost certainly not be deployed to operational theatres, due to factors such Records showing the reasons why entitlement to SFA as requirement of access to emergency treatment and ceased in each case are not held centrally and could be storage requirements of the medication required by provided only at disproportionate cost. these individuals. This also applies to other disabilities which arise in service, but the forces do not recruit Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for individuals where they would only be able to serve in a Defence how many landlords of (a) substitute service medically restricted capacity from the outset. family accommodation and (b) substitute service The total number of individuals who were diagnosed single accommodation properties are currently with nut allergies while serving in the armed forces and members of the armed forces in each region. [302005] are currently still serving is not held centrally, and could be provided only by examining the medical records of Mr. Kevan Jones: The occupation of the landlords all personnel at disproportionate cost. who provide substitute accommodation is not recorded by this Department. Since individuals with nut allergies will not usually be deployed, ration packs tailored for such individuals are Defence Equipment not produced. Since most food consumption on deployment is delivered by mass catering, often using local sources, Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for and for other reasons noted above, provision of such Defence whether he plans to provide armed forces ration packs would not circumvent the barriers to personnel with body armour which includes groin deployment for those who suffer nut allergies. protection. [301909] 291W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 292W

Mr. Quentin Davies: We have spent £35 million over Mr. Kevan Jones: In the 12 months up to 26 October the last three years providing new body armour for 2009, no jobs advertised in the Ministry of Defence troops on operations. We are continually seeking ways were restructured to online applications only. to protect our personnel, and work is well under way to From 26 October 2009, the Ministry of Defence is research ways of providing additional protection for the seeking to encourage the use of online applications for perineal area. jobs advertised externally, via the website: Departmental Disclosure of Information www.civilianjobs.mod.uk. Greater online applications should deliver an improved Norman Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for external recruitment service and generate efficiencies. Defence how many allegations of victimisation for The new arrangements still permit offline applications whistleblowing have been made to his Department by in cases where disability prevents internet access and are its staff since 6 June 2006. [301501] fully compliant with the Office of the Civil Service Commissioners’ (OCSC) principles of fair and open Mr. Kevan Jones: This information is not held centrally competition and selection on merit. and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. Departmental Recycling Departmental Food Mr. Jenkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what weight of paper his Department recycled Defence what estimate he has made of the proportion in each of the last five years. [300777] of (a) lamb, (b) beef, (c) chicken, (d) pork, (e) turkey, (f) other meats, (g) vegetables and (h) fruit Mr. Kevan Jones: The Ministry of Defence holds data procured by his Department that was produced in the on the percentage of total waste recycled but not specifically UK in the latest period for which figures are available; on the weight of paper recycled. and if he will make a statement. [300186] As part of reporting against the Sustainable Operation on the Government Estate targets, the MOD in 2008 Mr. Quentin Davies: A report on the proportion of agreed with the Office of Government Commerce a new domestically produced food used by Government waste baseline for MOD activities. In 2008-09 the Departments, and also supplied to hospitals and prisons Department recycled or reused 51 per cent. of its waste. under contracts negotiated by NHS Supply Chain and Recycling and reuse figures prior to 2008-09, based on HM Prison Service, was published in November 2008, the best available data at the time and so are not directly covering the year from 1 April 2007 to 31 March 2008. comparable, were: 34 per cent. for 2007-08; 37 per cent. This report, and the first one covering the previous year, for 2006-07; 38.5 per cent. for 2005-06, and 22.6 per can be found at: cent. for 2004-05. http://www.defra.gov.uk/farm/policy/sustain/procurement/ awareness.htm Devonport Dockyard Overall, the proportion of domestically produced food procured by MOD has increased from 43 per cent. Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for in 2006-07 to 59 per cent. in 2007-08. Defence whether the Devonport dockyards have been The third report of this nature will be published in issued with the relevant safety certificates to receive the due course, and will demonstrate the work being undertaken Trident submarines for refuelling. [302003] to find opportunities to source British products, while working within the legal framework governing public Mr. Quentin Davies: Devonport Dockyard holds the procurement. documentation that is necessary to allow the Vanguard class submarines to be received for refuelling. The We are hoping to be able to provide specific MOD documentation consists of a suite of safety cases which figures shortly. covers all aspects of Vanguard submarine operations, Departmental Land including berthing, movements and refuelling. These safety cases are required for Devonport Dockyard to Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for maintain its site licence under the Nuclear Installation Defence what (a) television programmes and (b) films Act (1965). have been filmed on locations owned by his Department in each of the last 12 months. [302335] Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what recent assessment he has made of Mr. Kevan Jones: The requested information is not Devonport dockyard’s capability to meet the refuelling held centrally and could be provided only at requirements of the Trident submarines. [302004] disproportionate cost. Mr. Quentin Davies: Devonport Dockyard is fully Departmental Recruitment capable of meeting the nuclear refuelling requirements of the Vanguard class submarines. The most recent Mr. Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence assessment of this capability was completed on 7 October what proportion of jobs advertised by his Department 2009. in the last 12 months were online only applications; This assessment included a review of the equipment, and what provision his Department makes for those procedures and personnel required to undertake the wishing to apply for jobs in his Department who do not refuelling of HMS Vigilant. Such assessments are have access to the internet. [301548] undertaken before each refuelling of the Vanguard class. 293W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 294W

Devonport Dockyard is a licensed site under the Offers in excess of the asking price were received but Nuclear Installations Act (1965). This licence is granted remain subject to the completion of formal legal missives by the Nuclear Installations Inspectorate (NII) of the and are thus regarded as commercially confidential. Health and Safety Executive (HSE) and approved by the MOD Defence Nuclear Safety Regulator (DNSR). Ms Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Operations at Devonport Dockyard are carried out in Defence what consultation was held with the Public accordance with site licence conditions and the facility and Commercial Services union prior to the decision safety case. being made to market the Kentigern House site on a sale and leaseback basis. [301959] Ex-servicemen: Radiation Exposure Mr. Kevan Jones: The proposed sale and leaseback of Nick Harvey: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Kentigern House is an estate management initiative how many decisions for war pension awards causally which does not threaten any jobs or affect the terms and linked to service for any condition other than leukaemia conditions of employment of any Ministry of Defence and polcythaemia rubra vera have made a finding that a employee or contractor. nuclear test veteran was exposed to radiation whilst Consequently, there was no need to formally consult participating in UK nuclear tests. [302179] with the trade unions, but, subject to commercial sensitivities, staff have been kept fully informed of Mr. Kevan Jones: Data is not held in the format progress by local management through a series of briefings requested. discussions. War Pensions are individually determined on the Royal Fleet Auxiliary basis of all appropriate medical evidence, and the War Pension Computer System (WPCS) only contains the outcomes of this detailed assessment. Therefore, although Mr. Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for the medical conditions claimed and awarded are held, Defence what plans he has for the future status of details of the specific causes of these medical conditions employees of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary; and if he will are not recorded on WPCS. The manual search of many make a statement. [301657] thousands of files would be required to provide the information requested and this could be provided only Mr. Kevan Jones [holding answer 25 November 2009]: at disproportionate cost. As part of our continuing drive to consider the scope for increased value for money in all aspects of Defence, Iraq: Politics and Government we will be looking at the current arrangement for delivering Maritime Operational Support through the Royal Fleet Auxiliary. Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence to what extent US and UK land-based military services in Iraq share a common information platform to support network centre operations BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS (NCOs); and what innovations have been implemented to improve NCOs in Iraq since 2005. [300502] Broadband

Bill Rammell: Military information sharing between Bill Wiggin: To ask the Minister of State, US and UK has improved since Operation Iraqi Freedom. Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what In Iraq, information transfer was between national-only percentage of the population has access to broadband networks. In Afghanistan, UK land environment forces of 2 Mbps or more. [301521] routinely work within the NATO ISAF information domain while keeping a smaller amount of national-only Mr. Timms: We estimate that today 89 per cent. of capability for information that is less readily shared homes can readily get a 2Mbps (or higher) broadband with allies. The US have also taken up this approach, service (as reported in the Digital Britain White Paper, which means UK, US and other allies are routinely June 2009). conducting operations using the same information domain. Copyright: Internet Kentigern House Mr. Clifton-Brown: To ask the Minister of State, Ms Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Department for Business, Innovation and Skills Defence (a) how much is expected to be made from the whether (a) the Secretary of State and (b) he and sale of and (b) what the projected costs to the public other Ministers in his Department have discussed (i) purse are over the 20 year lease period of the sale and internet piracy, (ii) online file-sharing and (iii) online leaseback of the MoD Kentigern House site. [301958] digital media with David Geffen. [301586]

Mr. Kevan Jones: The property was advertised for Mr. Timms: As we have made clear on numerous offers in excess of £47.4 million in return for a 20 year occasions there has not been any discussion with David lease in favour of the Ministry of Defence, at an initial Geffen on internet piracy, file-sharing or on digital market rent of £3.511 million per annum with annual media more generally—something that Mr. Geffen himself fixed increases of 2 per cent. per annum compounded has confirmed. More generally Ministers do, of course, every five years. There are no other additional costs quite properly discuss these things with a wide spectrum anticipated. of stakeholders. 295W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 296W

Departmental Pay Students: Loans

John Mason: To ask the Minister of State, Sandra Gidley: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (1) Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how what (a) bonuses and (b) incentives have been paid to many people in each age group resident in each local (i) consultants and (ii) contractors engaged by his authority area in the South East had not repaid their Department in each year since his Department was student loan at the latest date for which figures are available. [301354] established; [300649] (2) what (a) bonuses and (b) incentives have been Mr. Lammy: Borrowers become liable to repay their paid to (i) consultants and (ii) contractors engaged by loans in the April after they leave their course (the executive agencies and non-departmental public bodies Statutory Repayment Due Date, SRDD). After that for which his Department is responsible in each of the date those with earnings of over £15,000 will repay, last three years. [300650] usually by deductions from salary. Those liable to repay who have not yet made a repayment will include borrowers Mr. McFadden: Information on bonuses and incentives whose earnings are below the repayment threshold, paid to consultants and contractors engaged by the have gone on to further study or are doing voluntary Department for Business, Innovation and Skills is not work. held centrally and to do so would incur disproportionate The table covers income contingent loan borrowers costs. past SRDD with a known repayment or non-repayment I have approached the chief executives of the position by whether or not they have made a repayment. Department’s executive agencies and they will respond Income contingent loan borrowers past SRDD, March 20091 to the hon. Member directly. Numbers who have not yet Numbers who Information on NDPBs is not held centrally and due made a have made a to the volume of NDPBs, to do so would incur Age band repayment repayment Total disproportionate cost. Bracknell Letter from Gareth Jones, dated 26 November 2009: Forest I am replying on behalf of Companies House to your Parliamentary Less than 20 2— 2— 2— Question tabled 18 November 2009, UIN 300650, to the Minister 20 to 24 190 410 600 of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. 25 to 29 150 1,070 1,220 In the last three years Companies House has paid a one-off 30 to 39 50 100 140 bonus of £50 each to 26 contractors on completion of the 40 to 49 30 40 60 Companies Act Project. A contractual payment of £20,000 was 50 and over 10 20 30 also paid during this time as a final bonus payment to a consultant on completion of the Companies House Implementation Process Total 430 1,630 2,050 System (CHIPS). Letter from Sean Dennehey, dated 25 November 2009: Brighton and Hove I am responding in respect of the Intellectual Property Office Less than 20 2— 2— 2— to your Parliamentary Question tabled 18 November 2009, to the 20 to 24 360 520 880 Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. 25 to 29 540 1,630 2,170 30 to 39 490 840 1,330 The Office has paid no incentives to consultants or contractors in any of the last three years. The Office also paid no bonuses to 40 to 49 190 310 500 consultants or contractors in any of the last three years, with the 50 and over 60 70 130 single exception that in 2008/09 one IT contractor was paid a Total 1,640 3,370 5,010 bonus of £705. Letter from Sarah Glasspool for and on behalf of Peter Buckinghamshire Mason, dated 25 November 2009: Less than 20 10 2—20 I am responding in respect of the National Measurement 20 to 24 1,190 2,430 3,620 Office to your Parliamentary Question tabled 18 November 2009, 25 to 29 1,050 6,240 7,290 to the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation 30 to 39 240 500 740 and Skills. 40 to 49 120 210 340 The National Measurement Office has not paid any bonuses or 50 and over 60 90 140 incentives to consultants or contractors in the last three years. Total 2,670 9,470 12,140 Letter from Stephen Speed, dated 26 November 2009: The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation East Sussex and Skills has asked me to reply to your question what (a) Less than 20 10 10 20 bonuses and (b) incentives have been paid to (i) consultants and 20 to 24 1,040 1,660 2,700 (ii) contractors engaged by executive agencies and non-departmental 25 to 29 970 4,530 5,500 public bodies for which his Department is responsible in each of the last three years. 30 to 39 290 590 880 40 to 49 170 250 420 The Insolvency Service made one bonus payment in 2007 50 and over 110 120 230 totalling £20,000 +VAT, paid to a contractor, against delivery milestones. There have been no other bonus payments made in Total 2,600 7,140 9,740 the last three years. 297W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 298W

Income contingent loan borrowers past SRDD, March 20091 Income contingent loan borrowers past SRDD, March 20091 Numbers who Numbers who have not yet Numbers who have not yet Numbers who made a have made a made a have made a Age band repayment repayment Total Age band repayment repayment Total

Hampshire 20 to 24 160 380 540 Less than 20 30 20 40 25 to 29 260 1,290 1,550 20 to 24 2,570 5,290 7,870 30 to 39 190 450 640 25 to 29 2,220 13,830 16,050 40 to 49 110 200 310 30 to 39 600 1,490 2,090 50 and over 40 80 120 40 to 49 370 770 1,130 Total 760 2,390 3,150 50 and over 180 240 420 Total 5,970 21,630 27,590 Reading Less than 20 2— 2— 2— Isle of 20 to 24 190 400 590 Wight 25 to 29 200 1,100 1,300 Less than 20 2— 2— 2— 30 to 39 100 230 330 20 to 24 310 420 730 40 to 49 40 110 150 25 to 29 280 1,250 1,530 50 and over 10 30 40 30 to 39 80 180 260 Total 540 1,870 2,410 40 to 49 40 90 130 50 and over 30 30 60 Slough Total 740 1,980 2,710 Less than 20 2— 2— 2— 20 to 24 230 470 710 Kent 25 to 29 270 1,220 1,490 Less than 20 30 10 40 30 to 39 50 120 170 20 to 24 2,710 5,050 7,760 40 to 49 20 40 60 25 to 29 2,380 12,930 15,310 50 and over 10 10 20 30 to 39 740 1,680 2,420 Total 580 1,870 2,450 40 to 49 480 810 1,300 50 and over 220 310 520 Southampton Total 6,550 20,790 27,340 Less than 20 2— 2— 2— 20 to 24 340 500 840 Medway 25 to 29 360 1,460 1,830 Less than 20 10 2—1030 to 39 180 440 620 20 to 24 470 950 1,420 40 to 49 70 130 200 25 to 29 420 2,020 2,440 50 and over 30 30 70 30 to 39 120 270 390 Total 980 2,570 3,550 40 to 49 90 170 270 50 and over 40 50 90 Surrey Total 1,140 3,480 4,610 Less than 20 20 10 30 20 to 24 2,190 4,770 6,960 Milton 25 to 29 2,060 12,590 14,650 Keynes 30 to 39 440 1,040 1,480 Less than 20 10 10 10 40 to 49 210 420 630 20 to 24 410 830 1,240 50 and over 90 140 230 25 to 29 410 2,110 2,520 Total 5,020 18,960 23,980 30 to 39 130 220 340 40 to 49 60 100 160 50 and over 20 30 50 West Berkshire Total 1,040 3,300 4,330 Less than 20 2— 2—10 20 to 24 310 650 960 Oxfordshire 25 to 29 230 1,740 1,970 Less than 20 2—101030 to 39 50 120 170 20 to 24 1,270 2,240 3,520 40 to 49 40 50 90 25 to 29 1,240 6,570 7,800 50 and over 10 20 40 30 to 39 430 930 1,360 Total 640 2,580 3,230 40 to 49 190 410 600 50 and over 70 120 190 West Sussex Total 3,200 10,280 13,490 Less than 20 20 10 40 20 to 24 1,470 2,720 4,190 Portsmouth 25 to 29 1,380 7,510 8,890 Less than 20 2— 2— 2— 30 to 39 360 900 1,260 299W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 300W

Income contingent loan borrowers past SRDD, March 20091 FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Numbers who have not yet Numbers who made a have made a Afghanistan Age band repayment repayment Total Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for 40 to 49 220 420 640 Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether his 50 and over 110 130 240 Department has (a) commissioned and (b) assessed Total 3,550 11,690 15,240 any internal or external reports on the effectiveness of its work in Afghanistan; and if he will make a Windsor and statement. [301939] Maidenhead Less than 20 2— 2— 2— Mr. Ivan Lewis: The Foreign and Commonwealth 20 to 24 310 650 960 Office’s work in Afghanistan is kept under regular 25 to 29 270 1,630 1,900 review. The Government’s strategy for Afghanistan has 30 to 39 70 120 190 a number of medium-term goals and outcomes and 40 to 49 30 50 80 progress against these is regularly assessed. Measurement 50 and over 10 10 20 indicators include progress on building the capacity of Total 690 2,470 3,160 government institutions against a range of economic indicators. Ministers regularly review progress against Wokingham these. Less than 20 2— 2— 2— 20 to 24 360 910 1,280 Afghanistan: Corruption 25 to 29 310 2,280 2,590 30 to 39 60 150 220 Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign 40 to 49 30 60 80 and Commonwealth Affairs what commitments he has 50 and over 10 30 40 (a) sought and (b) received from the Afghan Government Total 780 3,430 4,210 regarding political reform and action against corruption; 1Table covers income-contingent loan borrowers past SRDD and for and if he will make a statement. [301978] whom at least one year of repayment history has been closed off so that the repayment/non-repayment position can be determined. David Miliband: President Karzai made his commitment Excludes transitional year loans taken out in academic year 2008/09. to political reform and tackling corruption, including Gives the local authority in which the borrower was resident at the time of application for student finance; this does not indicate current the appointment of clean and competent ministers and residence. Figures rounded to the nearest 10. Age is shown at the end governors, clear in his inauguration speech of 19 November of the last tax year for which repayment/non-repayment information 2009. We welcome the emphasis he placed on the need has been posted, mainly end of tax year 2007/08. for Ministers to have integrity and professionalism, and 2Less than five borrowers. look forward to the announcement of his Cabinet. We Source: regularly discuss the need to tackle corruption with the Student Loans Company Afghan Government and offer technical support, for Telephone Services example in providing a multi-agency task force to support the implementation of an anti-corruption strategy. Mark Hunter: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of measures to regulate telephone numbers with (a) 0844, Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) 0845, (c) 0870 and (d) 0871 prefixes; and if he will Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whom the Prime make a statement. [300850] Minister plans to invite to the forthcoming conference on the future of Afghanistan to be held in London. Mr. Timms: The Government have made no recent [301907] assessments as the independent regulator Ofcom has responsibility for telephone numbers in the UK. Mr. Ivan Lewis: My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has offered to hold a conference on Afghanistan Ofcom, in 2006, strengthened its price publication to be held in London. rules, requiring operators to make it easier for consumers to find out about the cost of calling 08 numbers. Operators We are currently working up the potential scope of are now required to state maximum charges for calls to the conference. More information will be made available 08 numbers in promotional material and also to specify in due course. whether 08 calls are included in call packages. Calls to 0845 numbers are often charged at a small Belarus: Capital Punishment premium from fixed networks. For instance, BT’s maximum charge for an 0845 call is 3.867p per minute (including Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State VAT) but most BT customers pay no more than 1.9p per for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what minute. There are also signs that competition is exerting representation he has made to the Belarus Government downward pressure on prices. Earlier this year, BT on the decision of the Belarus Supreme Court to reject included 0845 in its calling plans on the same basis as the appeals of Vasily Yusepchuk and Andrei Zhuk 01, 02 and 03 numbers and at least one other operator against the death sentence; and what discussions he has has since followed BT’s lead. had on the matter at the Council of Europe. [301243] 301W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 302W

Chris Bryant: We and EU partners have raised the The consultation document (pages 12 and 13) does cases of Vasily Yusepchuk and Andrei Zhuk with the however recognise that the international fishing community, Belarusian authorities on a number of occasions. We the US, the Republic of Mauritius and the Chagossian also took part in a European Commission press conference community are all groups which may be either directly on 12 October 2009 to mark World Day Against the or indirectly affected by the establishment of an MPA Death Penalty. I referenced two cases in a Westminster and any resulting restrictions or a ban on fishing. Hall debate on the global abolition of the death penalty All responses to the consultation will be taken into on 28 October 2009, Official Report, column 71H. EU consideration. member states are working with local and international non-governmental organisations to promote public debate, Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for and publicise EU views on the death penalty. We continue Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what (a) entitlements to urge Belarus to abolish the death penalty or, as an and (b) historic entitlements apply under international initial measure, to introduce a moratorium. law to the management of fishing stocks within the 200 The Council of Europe (CoE) plays close attention to mile limits of the British Indian Ocean Territory. developments in Belarus. In June 2009 the CoE [302473] Parliamentary Assembly agreed to the restoration of Chris Bryant: The management of fishing stocks the Special Guest status of the Belarusian Parliament, within the British Indian Ocean Territory (BIOT) is the which had been suspended in 1997, only after a moratorium responsibility of the UK. The BIOT Administration on the death penalty. On 30 October 2009 a joint contracts Marine Resources and Assessment Group statement was issued by the Chairman of the Committee Ltd. to manage the fisheries of the territory. The UK is of Ministers of the CoE and the Secretary-General of a member of the Indian Ocean Tuna Commission (IOTC), the CoE calling on President Alyaksandr Lukashenka both through the European Commission’s membership to grant clemency, to declare a moratorium on the use and separately and individually through the BIOT and, of the death penalty in Belarus and to commute the as such, provides data on the BIOT fisheries to the sentences of all prisoners sentenced to death to terms of IOTC. imprisonment. Colombia: EU External Trade Bletchley Park: Medals Mr. Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what the status is of Derek Wyatt: To ask the Secretary of State for negotiations between the EU and Colombia on a free trade Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when those who agreement; and if he will make a statement. [301570] worked on code-breaking at Bletchley Park will receive their service medals. [301814] Mr.IvanLewis:The European Commission is pushing forward with negotiations towards a Multi-Party Trade David Miliband: All eligible veterans who have submitted Agreement with Colombia on behalf of the EU. The an application for the Bletchley Park Commemorative UK is leading efforts within the EU to ensure that any Badge have been sent their badge and certificate. This agreement with Colombia is linked to a robust human amounts to over 2,000 applications up to and including rights clause. This clause will enable us to suspend the 24 November 2009. agreement if it is breached, and will act as a catalyst for I attended a special celebration ceremony at Bletchley frank dialogue with Colombia on the issue. We believe Park on 9 October 2009 to pay tribute to the vital work that free trade agreements can help to create the right these veterans carried out during the Second World circumstances for improved stability, where human rights War. The Government Communications Headquarters stand a better chance of flourishing. Denying Colombia (GCHQ) will continue to send out badges and certificates access to the economic opportunities presented by the to eligible veterans on receipt of applications. Multi-Party Trade Agreement would undermine this prospect. British Indian Ocean Territory: Environment Protection Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for progress has been made on his Department’s work with Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs which international the European Commission on the negotiation of a free parties are considered to be stakeholders for the consultation trade agreement with Colombia. [301894] on the proposed creation of a Marine Protected Area for the Chagos Archipelago in the British Indian Ocean Mr.IvanLewis:The European Commission is pushing Territory; what criteria were used to decide who the forward with negotiations towards a Multi-Party Trade stakeholders were; and what weight will be given to Agreement with Colombia on behalf of the EU. The stakeholder responses to the consultation. [302471] UK is leading efforts within the EU to ensure that any agreement with Colombia is linked to a robust human Chris Bryant: The public consultation into whether rights clause. This clause will enable us to suspend the to create a Marine Protected Area (MPA) in the British agreement if it is breached, and will act as a catalyst for Indian Ocean Territory is not a limited one. The purpose frank dialogue with Colombia on this issue. We believe of the consultation is to seek views from all stakeholders that free trade agreements can help to create the right and interested parties to help the Government assess circumstances for improved stability, where human rights whether an MPA is the right option for the future stand a better chance of flourishing. Denying Colombia environmental protection of the territory.We are, therefore, access to the economic opportunities presented by the strongly encouraging as many people as possible to Multi-Party Trade Agreement would undermine this participate in the consultation. prospect. 303W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 304W

Colombia: Trade Unions John Mason: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what (a) bonuses Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and (b) incentives have been paid to (i) consultants and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports he has and (ii) contractors engaged by executive agencies and received on the number of trade unionists murdered in non-departmental public bodies for which his Colombia in the last 12 months. [301895] Department is responsible in each of the last three years. [300654] Chris Bryant: I have seen various reports of the number of trade unionists murdered in Colombia in Chris Bryant: Neither the Foreign and Commonwealth 2009. The bottom line is that a single murder of a trade Office (FCO), its executive agencies (FCO Services and unionist or human rights defender is one too many. This Wilton Park) or its non-departmental public bodies issue is of great concern to us. During a meeting with make bonus payments to consultants or individual President Uribe while visiting Colombia in October, I contractors. urged the Colombian government to do everything Incentive regimes are rarely used for contracts with possible to ensure that those in Colombia who fight to consultants and individual contractors. If incentives are defend human rights are able to do their work in safety included in a contract they are negotiated on a case by and without fear. case basis taking care to ensure value for money. No central record is maintained of such contractual provisions. Departmental Internet Dr. Cable: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many staff in his Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Department received bonus payments in 2008; what and Commonwealth Affairs what the cost was of proportion of the total work force they represented; maintaining his Department’s website in the 2008-09 what the total amount of bonuses paid was; what the financial year; and what the forecast cost is of largest single payment was; and if he will make a maintaining websites within his responsibility in the statement. [300895] 2009-10 financial year. [302417] Chris Bryant: During the financial year 2008-09, a Chris Bryant: The cost of maintaining the Foreign total of 4,712 staff received a bonus payment. This and Commonwealth Office (FCO) entire web platform represents 80 per cent. of the total workforce. in the 2008-09 financial year was £1.45 million. This The total amount of bonuses paid was £7,597,836 covers hosting, development and support costs. and the largest single payment was £30,000. The average The FCO’s web platform is home to 250 websites, amount per employee was £1,286. including cross-Government websites such as www.londonsummit.gov.uk Departmental Working Hours www.actoncopenhagen.gov.uk and our network of embassy and high commission Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for websites. It is not possible to calculate the individual Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many and cost of the main corporate website. what proportion of staff of his Department, its executive agencies and non-departmental public bodies The forecast cost of maintaining the 250 websites on work flexibly or part-time; and what his Department’s the FCO web platform in 2009-10 is £1.45 million. policy is on making jobs available on a job-share or These costs do not include staff time spent updating flexible basis. [301324] the websites. Chris Bryant: As at 1 November 2009 there were 163 Departmental Pay Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) staff working part time out of a total of 5,504, representing 3 per cent. These figures include FCO Services, which operates Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for as a trading fund, and Wilton Park which is an agency. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much We do not hold central records of part-time workers in funding his Department has allocated for (a) year-end our non-departmental bodies. and (b) in-year bonuses for staff in 2009-10. [300431] We also have no central records of other types of Chris Bryant: For 2009-10 the Foreign and flexible working, for example compressed hours and Commonwealth Office (FCO) allocated the following working from home, as these are agreed locally between amounts for variable pay in 2009-10: staff and their line-managers. All jobs can be made available on a job-share or flexible basis, including (a) £7,693,418 overseas jobs, unless there is an overriding operational (b) £532,667. reason preventing it. These bonus figures are based on a total pay bill of £213,613,185. The FCO does not pay year-end bonuses Diplomatic Service as such. Government policy is to differentiate reward to civil servants more effectively and to link it directly to Mr. Gordon Prentice: To ask the Secretary of State performance. As a result a higher proportion of annual for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many reward now takes the form of non-consolidated, non- honorary consuls there are; and if he will make a pensionable bonus payments (variable pay). The FCO statement. [301881] arrangements for bonus payments mirror those adopted by other Whitehall Departments. Chris Bryant: 243. 305W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 306W

Government Hospitality Mr. Crabb: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment he has Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for made of the potential contribution of the proposal for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much a Palestinian state made by the Prime Minister of the Government Hospitality spent on (a) champagne, (b) Palestinian Authority to peace negotiations between wine, (c) china, (d) cutlery and (e) venue hire in Israel and the Palestinians. [301834] 2008-09. [300704] Mr. Ivan Lewis: We welcome the Palestinian Authority’s Chris Bryant: In the financial year 2008-09 Government plan as a contribution to building Palestinian institutions. Hospitality recorded the following expenditure: The Government remain firmly committed to the establishment of a viable and contiguous Palestinian Wines and spirits: £121,939 (including £27,136 spent on Champagne) state based on the 1967 borders, with limited land-swaps of equal quality, existing alongside Israel in peace and China: £150 security. We believe that the best way to achieve this is Cutlery: £5,896 through negotiations between the parties, with the strong Government Hospitality does not meet venue hire support of the US, the EU, and the rest of the international costs for functions it organises at non-Government community. venues. Serbia: International War Crimes Tribunal Middle East Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Mr. Crabb: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent assessment and Commonwealth Affairs what recent steps his he has made of Serbia’s co-operation with the Department has taken to support the Palestinian International War Crimes Tribunal; and if he will make Authority in its police and security functions. [301838] a statement. [301982]

Mr. Ivan Lewis: The Government remain committed David Miliband: Serbia’s level of co-operation with to the reform of the Palestinian security sector as part the International Criminal Tribunal for the former of a wider state-building agenda. With the support of Yugoslavia (ICTY) continues to improve. We look forward the UK (including the British Support Team in Ramallah) to the next formal presentation to the UN Security and others, the Palestinian Authority is working to Council by ICTY Prosecutor, Serge Brammertz, on 3 increase the effectiveness and accountability of its police December 2009. and security forces. In doing so, they are not only making west bank towns safer for ordinary Palestinians Vatican but also combating terrorism.

Middle East: Armed Conflict Miss Widdecombe: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what plans there Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign are for a state visit from the Holy See in 2010. [301741] and Commonwealth Affairs with reference to the answer of 29 October 2009, Official Report, column Mr. Ivan Lewis: Discussions by this Department on 506W, on Middle East: armed conflict, what are the proposals for a Papal visit to the United Kingdom have challenges of interdiction referred to in the answer. taken place at official level since the Prime Minister’s invitation to the Pope in February this year. To date, [301966] there has been no official announcement by either State David Miliband: The principal challenges of interdiction of a Papal visit. are the legal constraints and the availability of resources. Yemen: Politics and Government Middle East: Peace Negotiations Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Mr. Crabb: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent assessment and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment he has has been made of the security situation in northern made of the compatibility with the principles of the Yemen; and what the Government’s policy is on the Oslo Accords of the proposal for a Palestinian state matter. [301976] made by the Prime Minister of the Palestinian Authority. [301833] David Miliband: The UK is increasingly concerned about the situation in northern Yemen. The conflict Mr. Ivan Lewis: Building the capacity of Palestinian threatens Yemeni security and the stability of the region. institutions in preparation for statehood is a key part of We support the right of the Saudi Government to use the Palestinian Authority’s proposal and is implicit in proportionate means to defend the integrity of their the Oslo Accords. The UK supports this aim and continues territory. We do not believe that violence is the right to pursue vigorously a two-state solution. We believe way to resolve disputes, inequalities and injustices. The that direct negotiations between the parties involved, UK does not believe that a military solution to the with the strong support of the US, the EU, and the rest Huthi conflict can achieve long term success. We encourage of the international community, are the best way to the rebels and the government of Yemen to agree a achieve this. In seeking a solution, both parties should humanitarian ceasefire, an end to all violence and to adhere to applicable international obligations. pursue a political settlement to address legitimate grievances. 307W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 308W

Mr. Hague: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Mr. Ian Austin: The consultation will come to an end and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions he on 26 November. Following the end of the consultation has had with the governments of (a) Yemen and (b) we will need to analyse and publish a summary of Saudi Arabia on the security situation in northern responses, agree final proposals and revise the part J Yemen. [301977] approved document (statutory guidance). It is planned that the revised approved document will be published David Miliband: I last met the YemeniForeign Minister by March 2010 and will come into force in October on 25 September 2009 when we spoke about the conflict 2010. in northern Yemen. I expressed the UK’s concern about the deteriorating situation and urged him to consider a Community Development: Finance humanitarian ceasefire in light of the 175,000 internally displaced people. Mr. Jenkins: To ask the Secretary of State for I last spoke to the Saudi Minister for Foreign Affairs Communities and Local Government what steps his on 9 October 2009. We discussed the UK and Saudi Department is taking to encourage applications for Arabia’s shared concern about the potential for community grants. [301616] deterioration in the region. Ms Rosie Winterton: Communities and Local My officials and those of Department for International Government work with the Office of the Third Sector Development are in daily contact with their Yemeni and and through intermediary bodies such as the Community Saudi counterparts at all levels. We are increasingly Development Foundation, Social Investment Business, concerned about the situation in northern Yemen and and local authorities, to promote opportunities to the conflict along the Yemeni-Saudi border. We support communities to apply for grants to help make a positive the Saudi Government’s right to use proportionate change to the lives of others and the community in means to defend the integrity of their territory. which they live. The situation in northern Yemen has the potential to create further instability in the Gulf region but we have Cornwall Council seen no evidence of external interference to that end. The UK does not believe that a military solution to the Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for Huthi conflict can achieve long term success. We encourage Communities and Local Government what representations the rebels and the government of Yemen to agree to a he has received on proposals for Cornwall Council to be humanitarian ceasefire, an end to all violence and to renamed as an (a) assembly, (b) parliament, (c) senate pursue a negotiated political settlement to address legitimate and (d) another designation. [301055] grievances. Ms Rosie Winterton: We have received no such representations about the renaming of Cornwall council. An order made under the Local Government and Public COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Involvement in Health Act 2007 allowed the council to adopt either the name of Cornwall county council or National Clearing House Scheme Cornwall council; the council decided to adopt the latter name. Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many Departmental Pay homes were purchased under the National Clearing House scheme in each of the last three years; and how Margaret Moran: To ask the Secretary of State for many such homes were subsequently (a) sold, (b) used Communities and Local Government what percentage for affordable rent, (c) purchased under shared of staff in each Government Office are in SCS pay ownership and (d) unused. [300447] band (a) 1, (b) 1A and (c) 2; and what job titles fall in each such pay band. [300264] Mr. Ian Austin: The Housing Corporation, the Homes and Communities Agency’s predecessor, set up the National Ms Rosie Winterton: Each Government office has Clearing House to streamline initial assessment of national one regional director at SCS PB2 and between four and packages of at least 250 units from private sector house eight deputy regional directors at SCS PB1. The builders and operated during 2008-09. Government offices for the north-west and west midlands Allocations through the National Clearing House also have a deputy to the regional director at SCS and the purchase of unsold stock from developers PB1A. through the National Affordable Housing Programme As a percentage of the total staff employed in each allocated a total of £350 million to provide 9,600 affordable office, this represents: homes in 2008-09. Of these homes some 6,300 were to be used for social rent and 3,300 for low cost home Percentage ownership. Government office PB1 PB1A PB2 East of England 2.84 0 0.57 Building Regulations East Midlands 3.31 0 0.66 London 4.02 0 0.50 Tom Levitt: To ask the Secretary of State for North East 2.60 0 0.52 Communities and Local Government what the North West 2.54 0.51 0.51 timetable is for responding to the consultation on part South East 2.50 0 0.50 J of the Building Regulations. [301641] 309W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 310W

dwellings vacant for the time periods requested is not Percentage available. There are no centrally available reliable or Government office PB1 PB1A PB2 recent estimates of vacant commercial dwellings. South West 2.96 0 0.49 West Midlands 1.97 0.49 0.49 Homelessness Yorkshire and the 3.87 0 0.55 Humber Chloe Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what steps are Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for being taken to reduce levels of homelessness in each Communities and Local Government how much region. [301704] funding his Department has allocated for (a) year end and (b) in-year bonuses for staff in 2009-10. [300433] Mr. Ian Austin: We have allocated over £200 million to local authorities and voluntary organisations over Barbara Follett: The Department for Communities three years (2008-11) to reduce and prevent homelessness and Local Government have allocated £1,276,150 for in their areas by offering tailored support and advice. In end of year non-consolidated pay awards in 2009-10: addition, the department also recently announced a £20 million Preventing Repossessions Fund to enable local The Department also operates a scheme for all staff authorities to extend small loans to families at risk of below the senior civil service under which individuals or homelessness through repossession or eviction. We have teams may receive a small non-consolidated award in also provided £2.5 million funding to the National recognition of an outstanding contribution over a limited Homelessness Advice Service (NHAS) which is a period. A formal allocation of funding is not made for partnership between Shelter and the Citizens Advice this scheme but a limit of 0.2 per cent. of the pay bill is Bureaux (CABx) providing high quality advice on placed on expenditure under these arrangements. The homelessness prevention through the network of maximum payment under these arrangements is £600. participating CABx and other voluntary agencies across England. Departmental Work Sharing Over recent months the Government have also announced a series of measures and new funding that Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for will help homeowners remain in their home wherever Communities and Local Government how many and possible. This help includes the £285 million Mortgage what percentage of staff of his Department, its Rescue Scheme, the Homeowners Mortgage Support executive agencies and non-departmental public bodies Scheme and substantial changes to Support for Mortgage work flexibly or part-time; and what his Department’s Interest Scheme. policy is on making jobs available on a job-share or New cases of homelessness acceptances have reduced flexible basis. [301337] by 69 per cent. since the last peak in 2003. The latest statistics show that there were 10,520 homelessness Barbara Follett: Communities and Local Government acceptances during the period April to June 2009—32 per (CLG) has 236 members of staff who work part-time, cent. lower than the same period last year. The proportion this represents 10 per cent. of the total number of staff. of homelessness acceptances due to mortgage repossessions Data on other forms of flexible working is collected for has remained at 3 per cent. CLG, but the proportion of people who have provided data are too low to allow meaningful analysis. Housing: Low Incomes Figures for the agencies and non-departmental public bodies are not held centrally and could be provided Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State only at disproportionate cost. for Communities and Local Government how many All posts in Communities and Local Government are homes have been purchased with the aid of the open to flexible working arrangements, including job-share; HomeBuy Direct scheme in the last 12 months. unless there is a substantive business case to the contrary [301135] showing it would be impracticable and inefficient. All posts will be advertised on this basis, whether advertised John Healey: Provisional data from the Homes and internally or externally. Communities Agency shows there were 7,686 completions through Low Cost Home Ownership products including 997 Homebuy Direct sales, between April and September Empty Property 2009. http://www.homesandcommunities.co.uk/public/documents/ Sarah Teather: To ask the Secretary of State for Official-Statistics-Release-Nov09.pdf Communities and Local Government how many (a) registered social landlord, (b) private and (c) Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State commercial properties have been empty for longer than for Communities and Local Government how many (i) one, (ii) two, (iii) five and (iv) 10 years. [301604] housing development sites have been brought back into production as a result of the Kickstart Housing Mr. Ian Austin: Information on the total numbers of Delivery Programme. [301136] vacant dwellings by tenure but not time period was provided in the answer given to the hon. Member for John Healey: 136 housing schemes have to date been Meriden (Mrs. Spelman) on 15 October 2009, Official announced as approved for investment under the Kickstart Report, column 1066W. Information on the numbers of programme. Contracts are being finalised and workers 311W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 312W are returning to sites over the coming weeks. Details of Mr. Ian Austin: Estimates of the number of homeowners approved schemes are posted on the Homes and in each region for each of the last 10 years can be found Communities Agency’s website, at: in table S135a, available on the Communities and Local http://www.homesandcommunities.co.uk/public/documents/ Government website at: kickstart-schemes-approved-271009-region.pdf http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/housing/xls/ 1393611.xls Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State These estimates are based on data from the ONS Labour for Communities and Local Government what his most Force Survey. recent assessment is of the adequacy of the supply of Estimates for the Norwich, North constituency are affordable housing. [301138] not available. Mr. Ian Austin: We know there is a strong case for building more housing generally and more affordable Local Authorities: Place Names housing in particular. In order to better understand the relationship between supply and identified need CLG Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for has commissioned a housing need analytical model Communities and Local Government what regulations from Heriot-Watt university which will improve our govern the nomenclature of local authorities. [301029] understanding of the impact of housing supply on housing need going forward. It is hoped this will be Ms Rosie Winterton: The Local Government Act available to the Department by the end of the year. 1972 makes provision on the nomenclature of local There were 4 million LA and RSL owned homes in authorities; an order under the Local Government Public England in 2007 and we are spending £7.5 billion over Involvement in Health Act 2007 amends the application the two years 2009-10 and 2010-11 to deliver around of these provisions in the case of certain new unitary 112,000 affordable homes. councils. Housing: Overcrowding Local Authorities: Powers Ms Keeble: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what plans he Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for has to (a) extend the funding of the overcrowding Communities and Local Government what additional pathfinders after 2011 and (b) create more pathfinders, decision-making powers are available to (a) Cornwall including ones in rural areas. [302184] Council and (b) the Council of the Isles of Silly which each of them (i) has not so far requested and (ii) has Mr. Ian Austin: Funding in support of tackling requested and is negotiating with (A) his Department overcrowding will be considered as part of the next and (B) another Government department or agency. spending review. [301027] We will continue to work with our 54 local authority pathfinders in developing good practice in tackling Ms Rosie Winterton: Cornwall council and the council overcrowding, which is being shared with other local of the Isles of Scilly already enjoy a full range of local authorities. government powers, hi response to our recent consultation, “Strengthening Local Democracy”, the Leader of Cornwall Ms Keeble: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities council commented that powers involving the delegation and Local Government what plans he has to extend the of funding, duties for regional and national bodies to remit of the overcrowding pathfinders to include co-operate and the ability to flex national policy to make it appropriate to local circumstances could be overcrowding in the private rented sector. [302185] helpful in relation to the Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Mr. Ian Austin: The 54 overcrowding pathfinder Economic Forum. The Government will be publishing authorities are tackling overcrowding in all tenures. their formal response to the consultation shortly.

Ms Keeble: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities Non-Domestic Rates and Local Government whether the Government plans to update the 1935 statutory overcrowding definition in Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for line with the bedroom standard. [302186] Communities and Local Government how much was (a) billed to non-domestic rate payers and (b) Mr. Ian Austin: Prior to making any change to the collected in business rates by each local authority in the statutory standards we want to establish the impact, (i) 2008-09 and (ii) 2009-10 tax year. [301891] timing and cost of undertaking a phased and manageable move to a new statutory standard. Evidence is being Barbara Follett: I have, today, placed in the Library generated through the 54 overcrowding pathfinder of the House a table that gives, by each billing authority authorities. in England, the net amount of non-domestic rates that Housing: Owner Occupation each should have collected in 2008-09 after reliefs and the amount of non-domestic rates each collected in 2008-09. Chloe Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many Data for 2009-10 are not yet available. homeowners there were in (a) Norwich North constituency This data is also available in Table 3 of the statistical and (b) each region in each of the last 10 years. [301885] release “Collection rates for council tax and non-domestic 313W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 314W rates in England 2008-09” that was published on 25 June Regional Government: South West 2009 and is available on the Communities and Local Government website at: Mr. Walter: To ask the Secretary of State for www.communities.gov.uk/localgovernment/localregional/ Communities and Local Government how much funding localgovernmentfinance/statistics/counciltax/collectionrates/ his Department provided to the South West Regional Assembly in (a) 2007-08 and (b) 2008-09; how much Non-domestic Rates: Banks funding he expects to provide to the South West Councils/ South West Strategic Leaders Board in 2009-10; and David T.C. Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for what estimate he has made of the reduction in his Communities and Local Government how much was Department’s expenditure in (i) 2009-10 and (ii) in paid in empty property rates on properties owned by subsequent years following the abolition of the South banks with shares managed by UK Financial West Regional Assembly. [301893] Investments Ltd. in (a) 2008-09 and (b) 2009-10. [301723] Mr. Ian Austin: The Department has provided the following funding: Barbara Follett: The information is not collected by the Department for Communities and Local Government. Body funded Amount (£) However, we have granted all empty properties with rateable values of up to £15,000 eligibility for full relief 2007-08 South West Regional Assembly 2,469,811 from business rates in 2009-10. As 70 per cent. of all 2008-09 South West Regional Assembly 2,300,164 properties fall below this threshold this temporary relief 2009-10 South West Strategic Leaders’Board 2,070,148 is providing real help to ratepayers trying to manage short-term pressures in a difficult property market. In 2009-10 the saving to my Department will be in the order of £230,016. Non-Domestic Rates: Empty Property In 2010-11 the South West Strategic Leaders’ Board will undertake functions connected with the production of regional strategies under part 5 of the Local Democracy, Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for Economic Development and Construction Act 2009. Communities and Local Government (1) how many (a) For this work the amount to be allocated will be subject commercial and (b) industrial hereditaments in receipt to receipt of a business plan. In subsequent years funding of empty property relief there were of hereditament for this work will be subject to the outcome of the next rateable value of (i) below £2,201, (ii) between £2,201 comprehensive spending review. and £5,000, (iii) between £5,001 and £10,000, (iv) between £10,001 and £15,000 and (v) over £15,000 in (A) 2006-07, (B) 2007-08 and (C) 2008-09; and what the monetary value was of the empty property relief granted to properties in each such category in each such year; CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES [301888] Children: Advertising (2) how many (a) commercial and (b) industrial hereditaments in receipt of empty property relief there Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for were of hereditament rateable value of (i) below Children, Schools and Families what recent assessment £2,201, (ii) between £2,201 and £5,000, (iii) between his Department has made of the effects on the £5,001 and £10,000, (iv) between £10,001 and £15,000 development of children of the advertisement of (a) and (v) over £15,000 before the (A) application of the food and (b) non-food products. [300665] £15,000 rateable value empty property rates exemption and (B) with the application of the £15,000 exemption; Ms Diana R. Johnson: In the Children’s Plan we made and what the monetary value was of empty property a commitment to commission an independent assessment between relief granted to properties in each such of the impact of the commercial world on young people. category in each of those periods; [301889] Subsequently, the Secretary of State announced that (3) what estimate he has made of the number of (a) Professor David Buckingham, Professor of Education commercial and (b) industrial hereditaments in receipt at the Institute of Education, would lead the assessment of empty property relief of a hereditament rateable and that it would be conducted by a panel of independent value of (i) below £2,201, (ii) between £2,201 and experts. £5,000, (iii) between £5,001 and £10,000, (iv) between Having conducted an extensive review of the available £10,001 and £15,000 and (v) over £15,000 in 2010-11; evidence, and having spoken to stakeholders representing and what the monetary value of empty property relief the broad spectrum of opinion on this subject, Professor granted to properties is in each category in that year. Buckingham and his team have now completed the [301890] assessment. I expect it to be published in the next few weeks. Barbara Follett: The information is not collected by the Department for Communities and Local Government. Children: Protection However, we have granted all empty properties with rateable values of up to £15,000 eligibility for full relief Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for from business rates in 2009-10. As 70 per cent. of all Children, Schools and Families with reference to the properties fall below this threshold this temporary relief answer of 9 November 2009, Official Report, column is providing real help to ratepayers trying to manage 107W, on children: protection, on what ground each of short term pressures in a difficult property market. the 34 appeals was upheld. [300708] 315W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 316W

Dawn Primarolo: [holding answer 23 November 2009]: http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View Information on appeals, including the detailed judgements .aspx?ID=396 and the reasons for decisions issued by the Tribunal, http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View can be found on the First-Tier Tribunal’s (FTT) website .aspx?ID=288 at http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk. .aspx?ID=354 http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View The judgments issued by the FTT set out the facts of .aspx?ID=361 each case, the evidence presented by the Appellant and http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View Respondent during the hearing and the FTT’s reasons .aspx?ID=965 for its judgement. http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View In general terms, the burden of proof lies with the .aspx?ID=379 Secretary of State as Respondent. The FTT upholds an http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View appeal if it considers, on the balance of probabilities, .aspx?ID=433 that http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View (i) in List 99 appeals, the Secretary of State’s direction .aspx?ID=880 preventing an individual from working with children is http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View not appropriate; and .aspx?ID=949 (ii) in PoCA appeals, it is not satisfied that the individual http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View was guilty of misconduct which harmed a child or .aspx?ID=977 placed a child at risk of harm and that the individual is http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View unsuitable to work with children . .aspx?ID=1038 http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View Since the reply given on 9 November 2009, Official .aspx?ID=974 Report, column 107W, the Tribunal has re-heard (upon http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View instruction from the High Court) one appeal which had .aspx?ID=888 been previously allowed and was included in the 34 http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View appeals reported in that answer. As a result of the .aspx?ID=1039 Tribunal’s decision in this case to dismiss the appeal on http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View re-hearing, the total number of appeals allowed by the .aspx?ID=196 Tribunal is now reduced to 33. http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View Judgments, containing the reasons for decisions, for .aspx?ID=199 each of the 33 appeals upheld by the Tribunal can be http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View accessed at the following addresses: .aspx?ID=137 http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View .aspx?ID=1014 Climate Change http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View .aspx?ID=882 Simon Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View Children, Schools and Families how many (a) .aspx?ID=1011 Ministers and (b) civil servants from his Department http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View will be attending the United Nations Climate Change .aspx?ID=1012 Conference in Copenhagen in an official capacity. http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View [300889] .aspx?ID=1003 http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View Ms Diana R. Johnson: No DCSF Ministers or civil .aspx?ID=1010 servants will be attending the United Nations Climate http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View Change Conference in Copenhagen in an official capacity. .aspx?ID=1002 Departmental Disclosure of Information http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View .aspx?ID=1008 http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View Norman Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for .aspx?ID=275 Children, Schools and Families how many allegations of victimisation for whistleblowing have been made to http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View [301491] .aspx?ID=341 his Department by its staff since 6 June 2006. http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View Ms Diana R. Johnson: No allegations of victimisation .aspx?ID=342 for whistleblowing have been made by staff since 6 June http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View 2006. .aspx?ID=906 http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View Departmental Manpower .aspx?ID=297 http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View Mr. Graham Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for .aspx?ID=303 Children, Schools and Families how many staff are http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View engaged (a) full-time and (b) part-time on handling .aspx?ID=345 responses to his Department’s consultation on Home http://www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk/Public/View education—registration and monitoring proposals. .aspx?ID=274 [301898] 317W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 318W

Ms Diana R. Johnson: 13 staff were engaged in handling Ms Diana R. Johnson: I am pleased to confirm that the responses: one full-time consultation advisor throughout Milton Keynes will join the Targeted Mental Health in the whole of the consultation period; a further four Schools (TaMHS) Programme in April 2010. From full-time and two part-time staff engaged to log and April 2010 all local authorities nationally will be analyse responses towards the end of the consultation implementing TaMHS. period, when the majority of responses were received; Milton Keynes will receive approximately £220,000 and an additional six staff helped with the analysis on a for 2010-11 to implement TaMHS locally. part-time basis following closure of this consultation. It is up to Milton Keynes to choose the schools to take part in their local TaMHS project. Our recommended Personal Social and Health Education model is that each local authority identifies a cluster of three to six secondary schools and their feeder primaries Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for to participate in the programme, reflecting local need. Children, Schools and Families what account he took In line with the TaMHS grant conditions, each local of the responses to the recent consultation on personal, authority is required to submit an implementation plan social, health and economic education (PSHE) to DCSF for approval, which will be monitored against undertaken by the Qualifications and Curriculum progress. Development Agency when determining his policy on making PSHE education a statutory part of the Milton Keynes, like all local authorities, will have to national curriculum; and if he will make a statement. indicate in their implementation plan how they will sustain TaMHS provision and will mainstream TaMHS [300792] support models to all schools locally beyond 2011. Ms Diana R. Johnson: I refer the hon. Member to the Science: Public Consultation written ministerial statement of 5 November, Official Report, columns 49-52WS. Mr. Crabb: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, In reaching the decision to make PSHE a statutory Schools and Families on what date he plans to publish part of the national curriculum I gave serious consideration the summary of responses to his Department’s science to the responses to the consultation exercise and particularly and learning consultation. [301442] the responses from parents. The evidence, both from that consultation and from the further, independent, Ms Diana R. Johnson: This consultation, hosted on research that my Department commissioned, told me the DCSF website, was conducted by the independent that, to an overwhelming extent, parents think that Science and Learning Expert Group, chaired by Sir good quality PSHE, taught in a sensitive and appropriate Mark Walport, rather than the Department. I gather way and with the proper safeguards in place, is vital in that Sir Mark intends to publish an analysis of the promoting the health and well-being of young people as consultation results when the Group submits its report they prepare to tackle the challenges of adult life. early in the new year. Special Educational Needs Schools: Asbestos Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for Paul Rowen: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how many pupils with Children, Schools and Families for what reasons he statements of special educational needs resident in each decided to include the requirement for an asbestos local authority area were educated in (a) mainstream survey in the standard contract documentation for the and (b) special schools outside their local authority of Building Schools for the Future programme; and what residence in the latest year for which figures are data on the presence of asbestos in schools he took available. [301047] into account in making that decision. [302010] Ms Diana R. Johnson [holding answer 23 November Mr. Coaker: The reasons we decided to include the 2009]: The requested information has been placed in requirement for an asbestos survey in the standard the House Libraries. documentation are to: reinforce the need for compliance with asbestos legislation; find out if Asbestos Containing Materials (ACMs) are present; CABINET OFFICE and Civil Servants: Compensation avoid contractual delays and financial uncertainties. This is based on experience from previous building Richard Burden: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet programmes where the discovery of ACMs during Office (1) what representations she has received on the refurbishment has led to substantial delays and unforeseen proposals published by her Department to reform the costs. Civil Service Compensation Scheme; [301996] (2) what discussions her Department is having with Schools: Mental Health Services trade unions on the future of the Civil Service Compensation Scheme. [301997] Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families which schools in the Tessa Jowell: I refer the hon. Member to the answer Milton Keynes area are participating in the Target that I gave to the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Paul Mental Health Schools programme; and whether he has Holmes) and the hon. Member for Tewkesbury plans to extend the programme to other schools in the (Mr. Robertson) on 9 November, Official Report, area. [300714] columns 80-81W. 319W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 320W

Civil Service No-Fault Compensation Scheme Tessa Jowell: The guidance to Departments on the recording of hospitality set out in the Government’s Dr. Murrison: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet response to the Public Administration Select Committee’s ″ ″ Office (1) how much has been paid out under the civil Report Lobbying: Access and Influence in Whitehall service no-fault compensation scheme to civil servants http//www.publications_parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/ in each Department in each year since the scheme was cmselect/cmpubadm/1058/1058.pdf established; [300211] makes clear that in general it is not necessary to record (2) how much has been paid out in respect of stress- hospitality received from those within HM Government related conditions under the civil service no-fault and non-departmental public bodies. There are no plans compensation scheme to civil servants in each Department to amend the register. in each year since the scheme was established. [300375] Government Departments are publishing details of hospitality received by Director Generals and above on Tessa Jowell: The current Civil Service Injury Benefit a quarterly basis (starting with the first quarter of Scheme was established on 1 October 2002. Benefits 2009-10) on their own departmental websites. Information paid under this scheme are accounted for within the on hospitality received by board members during 2008 Civil Superannuation Resource Accounts, copies of which will be published as soon as it is ready. can be found in the Library. Information on the amount Government Departments: Land Registry paid can be found within the notes to the accounts, for example within the 2008-09 accounts it is detailed at note 16. Mr. Frank Field: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Specific reasons for why injury benefit is awarded are Office what steps she has taken to encourage not recorded within the management information that Departments experiencing temporary increases in is held and therefore the number of stress-related conditions workload to consider outsourcing relevant tasks to cannot be identified. Land Registry offices. [301738] Tessa Jowell: Steps to deal with temporary increases Departmental Disclosure of Information in work load are a matter for individual Departments. Land Registry has worked with other Government Norman Baker: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Departments on a number of projects this year, for Office how many allegations of victimisation for instance the Department for Work and Pensions where whistleblowing have been made to her Department by 170 staff have obtained level transfers. Additionally, the its staff since 6 June 2006. [301487] Land Registry has entered into a five-year shared service agreement with Ordinance Survey. Tessa Jowell: There have been no known allegations of victimisation as a result of whistleblowing. JUSTICE Departmental Rail Travel Christmas Norman Baker: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office on what date she last travelled by train in the Mr. Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for course of her official duties. [301210] Justice how many Christmas parties his Department plans to host in 2009; what has been budgeted for each Tessa Jowell: On 16 October 2009 I travelled by train such reception; what estimate he has made of the to an official engagement. proportion of (a) lamb, (b) beef, (c) chicken, (d) pork, (e) turkey, (f) other meats, (g) vegetables, (h) Government Departments: Corporate Hospitality fruit and (i) alcohol to be served at each such function which is produced in the UK; and if he will make a statement. [300870] David Taylor: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office (1) with reference to the answer of 3 November Mr. Straw: The Department does not intend to host 2009, Official Report, columns 885-86W,on Government any Christmas parties in 2009. The Department and its Departments: official hospitality, if she will amend the agencies do not fund Christmas parties for staff, although register for hospitality received by board members of staff may personally contribute towards the cost of Government Departments from 1 January to 31 December such an event. 2007 to include the hospitality provided by the Chairman of the Audit Commission to the (a) Director General C-NOMIS Database Project of the Department for Communities and Local Government on 18 August 2007, (b) Director General Alan Duncan: To ask the Secretary of State for of the Financial and Commercial Group at the Home Justice which individual was responsible for the Department on 11 May 2007 and (c) Permanent Secretary C-NOMIS database project up until October 2007. to the Department for Communities and Local Government [300955] on 8 October 2007; and if she will make a statement; [301740] Maria Eagle: There were two senior responsible owners (2) when she expects to publish the register of of the C-NOMIS project up until October 2007, who hospitality received by board members of Government had overall responsibility: initially, Christine Knott and Departments during 2008. [301747] then Roger Hill. 321W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 322W

Alan Duncan: To ask the Secretary of State for (2) what assessment has been made of the potential Justice what financial management and oversight there to use the process for debt relief orders as a model for was in respect of the C-NOMIS database project up to regulating debt management schemes; and if he will October 2007. [300956] make a statement; [301111] (3) what guidance his Department issues on the use Maria Eagle: The C-NOMIS project board met at of up-front fees for debt management schemes; and if least once every two months. It was recognised that he will make a statement; [301112] strengthened financial control and management was (4) whether his Department has undertaken research required, and a dedicated finance manager was recruited into the potential financial effects on the least well-off at the end of 2006. He undertook a review of all project from the introduction of statutory regulation of debt costs which culminated in the recognition by summer management schemes; and if he will make a statement. 2007 that costs were unaffordable. [301113] The revised NOMIS programme which replaced the C-NOMIS project has adopted a fit-for-purpose governance Bridget Prentice: The current economic downturn is and monitoring structure and financial controls. causing real hardship for many hardworking consumers and the Government are determined to do all they can Community Justice Centres: Finance to help those in financial difficulties, while balancing this against creditors’ rights to recover their debts wherever possible, both now and in the future. David Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what plans his Department has for the future Currently, it is not possible for the Lord Chancellor to control either advertising or the fees charged by debt funding of community justice courts. [300251] management scheme providers. However, the powers contained in chapter 4 of part 5 of the Tribunals, Bridget Prentice: There are no plans for any future Courts and Enforcement Act (TCEA) 2007 would permit Community Justice Courts. The Green Paper “Engaging this in respect of approved schemes. Communities in Criminal Justice”set out the Government’s commitment to co-location of community justice teams Following concerns about the operation of this sector, in existing court buildings wherever possible and plans the consultation paper ‘Debt Management Schemes— to develop a new model of community justice teams delivering effective and balanced solutions for debtors where co-location is not practicable. The consultation and creditors’ was published on 18 September and stage Impact Assessment, published alongside the Green looks at the current operation of the debt management Paper, set out early estimated costs of both approaches. market. It seeks views on whether any changes are The costs for the community justice teams in 30 local needed in this area and, if so, what those changes authority areas, updated in light of the consultation, is should be. £1.05 million. It sets out three broad options: continue with the The teams will ensure that all the agencies in the local measures currently under way to raise awareness about area work closely together to engage the community current schemes and enforce existing rules with operators and provide problem-solving for offenders. The court (Option 1); improve current schemes without regulation, will remain a vital part of this approach. possibly through the introduction of a protocol (Option 2); or implement the Lord Chancellor’s powers to approve debt management schemes contained in chapter 4 of Community Orders: Young Offenders part 5 of the (TCEA) 2007 (Option 3). The consultation asks specific questions about how Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for debt management schemes should be supervised and, Justice what the cost to his Department was of for example, whether any existing scheme could be used community sentences for those aged (a) under 18 years or adapted to achieve the aims. This could include using old and (b) 18 to 21 years old; and if he will make a the process for debt relief orders. statement. [301319] It is expected that the results of the consultation will be available in the new year, at which time the Government Maria Eagle: We do not hold this information centrally. will announce what action they plan to take in this area. Community sentences for those aged under 18 are provided However, advertising generally will be considered during by youth offending teams (YOTs). YOTs are funded the compliance review currently being carried out by from a range of central and local sources and data are the Office of Fair Trading. Its report will be issued in not collected centrally on what proportion of this funding spring 2010. is spent on community sentences. Community sentences Separate to this consultation, the Government intend for those aged 18 to 21 are provided by the Probation to issue guidance on what consumers should expect Service. Data are not collected centrally on what proportion from debt management plan operators shortly. This of their funding is spent on community sentences. guidance will explain that operators should advise on all debt assistance options available to those approaching Debt Management them and give clear information about the fees that they charge. This guidance will supplement the more detailed Miss Begg: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice guidance ‘In Debt? Dealing with your creditors’, published (1) if he will bring forward plans to limit advertising by by the Insolvency Service on 2 July 2009. fee charging debt management providers who target An initial impact assessment was published alongside vulnerable individuals in financial difficulties; and if he the consultation paper which considered the potential will make a statement; [301110] effectiveness of all of the options contained in the 323W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 324W consultation paper. The impact assessment considers, across England and Wales and this could be undertaken as far as possible, the potential effects of all of the only at disproportionate cost. options on various sectors of society but also requests additional information to assist in the development of Domestic Violence this assessment. The consultation paper and initial impact assessment Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice can be accessed via the Ministry of Justice website at what the (a) longest, (b) average and (c) shortest waiting period for entry into a domestic violence http://www.justice.gov.uk/consultations/debt-management- schemes.htm perpetrator programme was in each probation area in each year since such programmes were introduced. Departmental Pay [300757]

John Mason: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Maria Eagle: Further to my answer of 21 October (1) what (a) bonuses and (b) incentives have been paid 2009, Official Report, column 1471W, and my letter to to (i) consultants and (ii) contractors engaged by his the hon. Member, a copy of which is placed in the Department in each of the last three years; [300655] Libraries of the House, the table shows the average (2) what (a) bonuses and (b) incentives have been number of weeks that elapse from the date of sentence paid to (i) consultants and (ii) contractors engaged by or licence for offences of violence or abuse to the executive agencies and non-departmental public bodies commencement of domestic violence programme for which his Department is responsible in each of the requirements in probation areas for 2005-06 to 2008-09. last three years. [300656] High risk offenders will be given priority by probation areas over those of medium risk. Preparation work Mr. Straw: The information requested prior to April needs to be completed with offenders before they can 2009 was not kept centrally. However, according to commence the group work element of a programme. available records, there are no contracts with consultants Offenders waiting for a place on a domestic violence or contractors in my Department that have bonus payments programme are under the supervision of their offender or incentives included within them. Since April 2009, manager who will monitor and actively manage the risk when Ministry of Justice procurement and relevant posed by the offender during the course of the supervision records were centralised, no contracts with consultants period. or contractors have bonus payments or incentives included The National Offender Management Service are working within them. to reduce waiting times by ensuring staff are familiar Departmental Taxis with the referral criteria, and by improved liaison between the offender manager, the programme delivery team, and the court. Ian Stewart: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what contracts his Department has with private hire A further three domestic abuse programmes are also taxi companies; and what expenditure his Department currently being piloted with a view to extending the has incurred against each such contract in each of the range of interventions available to perpetrators. last three years. [300830] The figures have been drawn from administrative data systems and although care is taken when processing Mr. Wills: The Ministry of Justice purchases taxi and analysing the returns, the detail collected is subject services on a regional/local level to support the small to the inaccuracies inherent in any large scale recording and medium enterprises that make up the market. To system. The Lancashire probation area’s figures have achieve best value for money sites are clustered and been updated since my letter of 12 November. spend is aggregated where possible, while still supporting The table shows the average number of weeks that small and medium sized enterprises. elapse from the date of sentence or licence for offences Expenditure related to these contracts is not held of violence or abuse to the commencement of domestic centrally. To obtain this information would require violence programme requirements in probation areas approaching a large number of local business units for 2005-06 to 2008-09.

Area Data 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

Avon and Somerset Average of weeks 40.9 39.6 47.2 40.5 Min of weeks 1.6 9.1 4.4 7.4 Max of weeks 102.0 101.8 166.1 103.2

Bedfordshire Average of weeks — 21.5 30.0 22.9 Min of weeks — 4.7 11.1 8.2 Max of weeks — 147.0 64.1 58.8

Cambridgeshire Average of weeks 23.9 36.4 31.3 25.1 Min of weeks 9.3 7.5 3.0 9.8 Max of weeks 55.7 95.3 97.8 67.8 325W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 326W

Area Data 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

Cheshire Average of weeks 33.8 38.1 31.4 5.0 Min of weeks 6.7 1.7 4.0 0.1 Max of weeks 115.0 121.5 120.1 54.0

County Durham Average of weeks 16.6 25.6 29.4 34.1 Min of weeks 2.0 1.1 3.5 2.8 Max of weeks 34.4 58.0 87.3 81.9

Cumbria Average of weeks 19.1 25.3 30.5 36.3 Min of weeks 7.6 4.6 1.2 9.1 Max of weeks 38.6 52.6 82.3 86.6

Derbyshire Average of weeks 25.1 30.5 23.9 21.9 Min of weeks 5.1 1.9 0.7 2.9 Max of weeks 155.1 68.1 83.3 93.8

Devon and Average of weeks 33.0 40.6 29.0 24.9 Cornwall Min of weeks 6.1 7.7 3.0 4.0 Max of weeks 92.1 148.2 92.8 81.8

Dorset Average of weeks 12.0 29.0 20.0 19.9 Min of weeks 2.5 4.1 3.2 4.1 Max of weeks 36.9 79.2 47.9 56.1

Dyfed-Powys Average of weeks 10.9 19.0 18.7 32.2 Min of weeks 5.1 1.0 0.5 6.0 Max of weeks 24.4 61.5 48.0 81.8

Essex Average of weeks 24.6 40.5 51.0 50.2 Min of weeks 1.1 10.1 2.8 0.8 Max of weeks 99.1 77.5 90.8 89.4

Gloucestershire Average of weeks 29.9 33.0 34.3 24.9 Min of weeks 8.5 7.2 6.0 3.8 Max of weeks 59.3 91.5 82.8 76.8

Greater Average of weeks 37.7 47.6 33.9 23.3 Manchester Min of weeks 5.1 4.3 5.9 4.3 Max of weeks 97.6 91.7 95.4 58.3

Gwent Average of weeks 34.6 41.3 42.8 44.0 Min of weeks 11.8 12.8 2.5 4.8 Max of weeks 62.7 101.7 109.1 111.7

Hampshire Average of weeks 17.1 25.4 25.2 24.1 Min of weeks 6.6 2.2 4.0 5.3 Max of weeks 55.0 79.1 146.3 99.3

Hertfordshire Average of weeks 21.9 30.6 38.1 24.1 Min of weeks 5.8 2.1 4.2 5.1 Max of weeks 44.7 57.1 90.1 79.3

Humberside Average of weeks 10.8 25.0 27.4 27.6 Min of weeks 0.1 0.1 5.1 11.8 Max of weeks 27.2 56.7 81.0 47.5 327W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 328W

Area Data 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

Kent Average of weeks 15.0 29.3 27.3 25.3 Min of weeks 2.1 0.1 2.0 1.8 Max of weeks 41.3 67.1 69.1 80.4

Lancashire Average of weeks 16.6 26.9 26.3 24.9 Min of weeks 3.8 0.0 0.1 0.0 Max of weeks 52.5 75.0 83.1 132.5

Leicestershire and Average of weeks 35.7 39.9 27.3 24.0 Rutland Min of weeks 2.1 1.8 1.4 3.8 Max of weeks 82.8 130.1 84.3 87.3

Lincolnshire Average of weeks 13.2 23.8 27.5 26.0 Min of weeks 5.5 0.3 2.2 2.1 Max of weeks 40.1 72.3 98.0 77.3

London Average of weeks 29.2 32.0 40.0 31.0 Min of weeks 0.3 4.1 0.2 0.1 Max of weeks 117.7 154.9 131.5 155.9

Merseyside Average of weeks 32.9 25.9 32.9 34.9 Min of weeks 5.8 2.4 2.2 2.2 Max of weeks 128.8 86.7 88.6 126.9

Norfolk Average of weeks 16.5 18.7 20.7 19.3 Min of weeks 0.7 4.8 0.3 0.8 Max of weeks 34.7 49.7 43.1 60.3

Northamptonshire Average of weeks 20.9 29.0 29.3 28.1 Min of weeks 6.7 7.5 4.7 2.4 Max of weeks 62.0 85.7 151.1 77.8

Northumbria Average of weeks 25.2 33.7 39.5 33.5 Min of weeks 6.1 7.1 7.8 0.8 Max of weeks 56.1 72.5 91.4 109.4

North Wales Average of weeks 26.2 37.6 42.2 40.4 Min of weeks 2.5 9.1 1.0 7.5 Max of weeks 88.7 76.8 117.2 149.5

North Yorkshire Average of weeks 11.8 16.3 29.1 22.5 Min of weeks 2.3 0.8 0.2 1.1 Max of weeks 41.8 54.0 102.6 74.6

Nottinghamshire Average of weeks — 13.1 13.7 19.1 Min of weeks — 0.3 3.2 1.2 Max of weeks — 49.3 48.2 63.1

South Wales Average of weeks — 23.3 34.5 38.1 Min of weeks — 4.3 2.0 6.1 Max of weeks — 63.3 117.6 78.1 329W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 330W

Area Data 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

South Yorkshire Average of weeks 43.3 43.1 41.9 21.4 Min of weeks 2.1 1.8 3.3 1.1 Max of weeks 102.8 77.8 105.5 87.8

Staffordshire Average of weeks — 14.0 14.2 17.1 Min of weeks — 2.1 2.2 2.1 Max of weeks — 53.0 39.5 45.0

Suffolk Average of weeks 15.2 20.8 21.6 23.5 Min of weeks 4.0 5.1 4.5 3.7 Max of weeks 30.8 80.4 67.7 63.8

Surrey Average of weeks 19.0 28.5 30.4 29.5 Min of weeks 6.0 12.8 9.1 8.8 Max of weeks 42.5 59.5 72.8 68.5

Sussex Average of weeks 29.1 27.5 20.9 25.3 Min of weeks 7.5 1.5 6.1 1.1 Max of weeks 73.8 72.4 42.4 59.8

Teesside Average of weeks 6.3 25.2 42.1 42.3 Min of weeks 4.4 6.8 17.6 10.7 Max of weeks 9.1 43.4 79.3 86.4

Thames Valley Area Average of weeks 28.3 33.0 31.0 26.5 Min of weeks 1.8 2.0 0.8 0.5 Max of weeks 145.0 74.5 87.5 77.7

Warwickshire Average of weeks — 20.6 31.4 38.6 Min of weeks — 5.8 15.8 17.8 Max of weeks — 61.0 47.3 99.5

West Mercia Average of weeks — 13.0 24.7 27.1 Min of weeks — 1.0 3.5 3.7 Max of weeks — 33.7 79.3 64.7

West Midlands Average of weeks 17.2 28.7 34.5 29.0 Min of weeks 7.2 1.1 1.2 2.1 Max of weeks 60.5 57.3 75.0 102.2

West Yorkshire Average of weeks 29.2 28.6 26.0 27.0 Min of weeks 1.4 0.0 0.3 0.1 Max of weeks 124.1 161.5 81.2 115.8

Wiltshire Average of weeks 35.2 35.7 33.7 29.8 Min of weeks 9.4 2.3 2.3 11.4 Max of weeks 80.8 103.3 77.1 81.7

Fixed Penalties: Fines as part of their reparation. Provisions were therefore included in the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Act 2004 providing for a surcharge to be payable on Justice if he will reject any proposals to introduce a criminal convictions, penalty notices for disorder and victims’ surcharge for fixed penalties and on the spot on fixed penalty notices for road traffic offences where fines; and if he will make a statement. [300468] the offences are persistent and serious. Claire Ward: It is Government policy that, where The victim surcharge was introduced on 1 April 2007 possible, offenders should contribute to victims’ services and has been applied initially only to fines imposed in 331W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 332W magistrates and Crown courts at a rate of £15. We Phil Hope: I have been asked to reply. intend to add the surcharge to other disposals as soon The latest figures for the cost per patient per year in a as it becomes feasible to do so. Proceeds raised from the high secure hospital for 2009-10 is £291,780 (figures surcharge provide a ring-fenced source of funding for a from the service level agreement with the hospitals). wide variety of organisations providing non-financial This is the average cost per annum for all high secure support to victims and witnesses of crime. services except for patients with dangerous and severe personality disorder. Magistrates’ Courts: Welsh Language The latest figures for costs for patients in medium and low secure units are the 2007-08 NHS reference Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for costs. For 2007-08, the national average cost per patient Justice (1) how much his Department has spent on per year in a medium secure unit was £171,915 (based translating summonses into Welsh in each month since on cost per patient per bed day of £471). For the same January 2009; and if he will make a statement; [301483] period, the national average cost per patient per year for (2) how many requests there have been for summonses low secure mental health units was £142,715 (based on to be translated into Welsh in each month since January cost per patient per bed day of £391). 2009; and if he will make a statement. [301484] Alan Duncan: To ask the Secretary of State for Bridget Prentice: From 9 December 2008 to 13 September Justice how many patient places in (a) low, (b) 2009, HMCS operated a national process for manual medium and (c) high security mental health units were translation of documents into Welsh. This was the vacant at 1 June 2009. [300800] period between completion of Libra IT rollout across all magistrates’ courts, and the release of the bilingual Phil Hope: I have been asked to reply. version of the system. During this time documents were At 1 June 2009 there were a total of 771 commissioned manually translated upon request, within one working patient beds in high secure units (excluding dangerous day. and severe personality disorder services). On that date, Since 13 September, bilingual documents have been there were 691 inpatients. In addition, there were 55 produced automatically from Libra where customers high secure patients on trial leave to other secure services. indicate a Welsh language preference. Figures are not available for vacancies broken down From January 2009 to September 2009, HMCS spent by low and medium secure units. Information is available a total of £2,605 on manual translation of summonses on the average daily number of mental health and into Welsh. The following table gives a breakdown per learning disability beds in national health service secure month. units, and this is contained in the following table. Cost of translation of Libra documents into Welsh (from January to Average daily number of mental health and learning disability secure September 2009) unit beds in NHS units 2008-09 Month Cost (£) Available Mental illness 3,292 January 2009 410.00 Occupancy Mental illness 2,885 February 2009 365.00 Available Learning Disability 554 March 2009 620.00 Occupancy Learning Disability 508 April 2009 270.00 Source: The Department of Health Dataset KH03. May 2009 170.00 June 2009 305.00 National Offender Management Service: Consultants July 2009 240.00 August 2009 150.00 Mr. Garnier: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice September 2009 75.00 how much the National Offender Management Scheme Total 2,605.00 spent on consultants in (a) 2004-05, (b) 2005-06 and (c) 2006-07. [300262] Number of requests Number Mr. Straw: The Ministry of Justice was formed on the 9 May 2007. This merger included the National January 2009 19 Offender Management Service (NOMS). NOMS previously February 2009 38 formed part of the Home Office. March 2009 42 The Ministry of Justice does not hold data in relation April 2009 33 to NOMS, including on consultancy costs, for years May 2009 36 prior to 2007. June 2009 58 The Ministry of Justice is in the process of implementing July 2009 44 a new procurement system that will capture data on August 2009 38 consultancy spend. Implementation is due to be completed September 2009 26 in the new year, and the information will be available in Total 334 the second quarter of 2010. Mentally Ill: Health Services National Probation Trust Programme: Expenditure

Alan Duncan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Mr. David Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State what recent estimate he has made of the operational for Justice what the (a) budget and (b) projected cost per patient per year of a (a) low, (b) medium and actual cost of the National Probation Trust (c) high security mental health unit. [300798] Programme was for 2009-10. [300280] 333W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 334W

Maria Eagle: The information requested is shown in psychiatrists and prison in reach teams. When prisoners’ the following table: mental health problems require them to be sectioned under the Mental Health Act, they are transferred to Resource total (£) secure mental health units. Forecast outturn 3,361,184 Measuring relative effectiveness is complicated by the Annual budget 3,611,184 different levels of care provided in each setting. However, Forecast variance 250,000 the Department has recently commissioned a call for research into the evidence base on secure forensic inpatient services in England (high, medium and low secure forensic Mr. David Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State services). This review will systematically assess the context for Justice what total budget was set for the National and mechanisms through which high, medium and low Probation Trust Programme over the lifetime of the secure forensic inpatient services produce outcomes. It programme; and what his latest estimate is of the total is envisaged this review will improve current evidence projected cost of the programme. [300281] about why services work, what might work in specific circumstances, and the impact on resources, deliverability Maria Eagle: The allocation of funds to the Probation and health equity. Trusts Programme has been managed on an annual basis. The annual differences in allocation reflect the Office for Criminal Justice Reform: Finance changes to the scale and scope of the programme in each of the three years. Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Throughout its lifetime the programme has consistently what projects the Office for Criminal Justice Reform come in under budget; this is as a consequence of has funded in each year since it was created; and how in-year changes to the scope of the programme. much funding was provided for each such project. [301479] The total budget allocation for the Probation Trust Programme is £11.095 million; the latest estimated cost Claire Ward: To provide the information requested over the three years is £8.346 million. for all the years since the Office for Criminal Justice Offenders: Mentally ill Reform was created would incur disproportionate cost. Information is readily available for 2008-09: financial Alan Duncan: To ask the Secretary of State for information for the projects the Office for Criminal Justice what recent assessment he has made of the Justice Reform supported in for 2008-09 is shown in the relative effectiveness in alleviating mental health table. problems of (a) prison, (b) secure mental health units In addition to the projects shown in the table, the and (c) other disposals. [300802] Office for Criminal Justice Reform supports local projects through the Community Cashback scheme. The scheme Phil Hope: I have been asked to reply. (worth £4 million this year) gives local people a say in Primary care trusts are responsible for commissioning how recovered criminal assets should be used to support mental health care in prisons. Where possible they aim local communities. for an equivalent service to that provided in the community Details of the projects supported by Community with general practitioners providing the initial assessment Cashback can be found at: and a gateway to psychological therapies, visiting http://cashback.cjsonline.gov.uk/

OCJR funded projects 2008-09 and 2009-10 £ million 2008-09 2009-10 Project Resource Capital Resource Capital

Business Change Projects Exchange Links—Sharing information between CJS agencies’ IT systems 4.67 — — — PROGRESS—IT tool to track court directions 1.18 0.50 0.20 — CJS Exchange Improvements (Virtualisation) — 1.41 — — Bichard Recommendation 7 5.74 3.17 1.90 2.99 Postal Charging 0.48 0.37 0.15 Virtual Courts 1.29 1.99 0.50 0.75 eYOT—Development of Case Management System for youth offending teams — 2.00 0.77 3.40 Warwickshire Justice Centre — — — 2.00 YJB to Probation—information handoff — — 0.50 — Disruption of mobile ‘phones in prisons — — — 0.79 Conditional cautions 0.72 — 0.10 — British Transport Police—Exchange Links — — 0.25 — Piloting of Live Links for all Witnesses (except defendants) 0.04 — — — Victim Intermediaries 0.23 — — — Developing the capacity and capability of LCJBs (Beacons approach) 0.33 — — — Witness Charter 0.03 — — — Maximising Video Conferencing Programme 0.29 — — — Prison to Court Video Links 0.12 — — — 335W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 336W

OCJR funded projects 2008-09 and 2009-10 £ million 2008-09 2009-10 Project Resource Capital Resource Capital

Development of Compliance and Enforcement measure — — 0.15 —

Strategy Projects Waterfall/CJS unit costs 0.03 — — — Strategy reviews 0.06 — 0.25 —

Research Projects CJS Modelling 0.30 — — — Improving CJS Data Quality 0.30 — 0.18 — Local Criminal Justice Board Guidance—community engagement 0.03 — — — Postal Requisitions—evaluation 0.04 — — — Victim Service Mapping 0.11 — 0.08 — Research on Conditional Cautions for Women 0.02 — 0.04 — Research—Women and the Criminal Justice System 0.04 — — — Communications and Confidence 0.02 — — — Virtual Courts—evaluation — — 0.12 — Community Payback — — 0.09 — Research—Efficiency and Effectiveness — — 0.20 — Research—Supporting Local Delivery — — 0.23 —

Local Delivery Projects LCJB Innovation Fund 0.10 — — — Realising the Potential of LCJBs 1.70 — 2.34 —

Race and Confidence Projects Race and Confidence Challenge Fund 0.25 — 0.10 — Diagnostic Tool to support delivery of PSA Indicator 4 (Race 0.03 — 0.01 — Disproportionality) Race for Justice Action Plan — — 0.05 — Community engagement pathfinder areas — — 2.55 —

Victims and Witnesses Projects Review of Code of Practice for Victims 0.03 — 0.10 — Development and roll out of Good Practice Toolkit for Child Witnesses 0.01 — 0.19 — Funding for LCJBs to support delivery of Indicator 3 (Victim and Witness 0.25 — — — Satisfaction) Development of Strategy to Support Children and young people who are victims 0.02 — — — of crime Review of Victim Support’s Witness Services 0.13 — 0.25 — Review of Victims Advisory Panel 0.01 — — — Victims Pledge—improving support for young victims of crime — — 0.50 — Total 18.58 9.44 11.14 10.08

Prison Sentences sentences at each such prison on the latest date for which figures are available. [300817]

Andrew Stunell: To ask the Secretary of State for Maria Eagle: The following table gives the numbers Justice how many prison places are available at each of prisoners serving sentences in prison establishments prison serving the Greater Manchester area when at in the North West region at the end of June 2009, the full capacity; and how many prisoners were serving latest date for which figures are available.

Held on remand and civil Establishment Operational capacity Sentenced population offenders Total held in custody

Altcourse 1324 975 339 1,314 Buckley Hall 381 377 0 377 Forest Bank 1160 697 447 1,144 Garth 847 817 0 817 Hindley 515 218 71 289 Haverigg 644 629 0 629 337W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 338W

Held on remand and civil Establishment Operational capacity Sentenced population offenders Total held in custody

Kirkham 590 566 2 568 Kennet 342 336 0 336 Lancaster Castle 243 228 0 228 Lancaster Farms 530 392 101 493 Liverpool 1,445 990 347 1,337 Manchester 1,286 846 380 1,226 Preston 842 411 335 746 Risley 1,093 1,079 1 1,080 Styal 458 317 133 450 Thorn Cross 322 301 0 301 Wymott 1,144 1,126 1 1,127 Total 13,166 10,305 2157 12,462

These figures have been drawn from administrative at the pre-hearing stage in each month in each of the IT systems which, as with any large scale recording last five years. [300819] system, are subject to possible errors with data entry and processing. Maria Eagle: We are in the process of undertaking an audit of data on outstanding parole reviews for prisoners The operational capacity of a prison is the total serving an indeterminate sentence of imprisonment for number of prisoners that an establishment can hold public protection (IPP). I will write to the hon. Member, taking into account control, security and the proper once the audit is complete and will place a copy of the operation of the planned regime. It is determined by reply in the Library. area managers on the basis of operational judgment and experience. The number of prisoners serving IPP sentences, whose parole applications were referred to the Parole Board, and which were (a) resolved, (b) deferred or adjourned Andrew Stunell: To ask the Secretary of State for at the hearing and (c) deferred or cancelled at the Justice (1) how many prisoners sentenced to serve an pre-hearing stage in each month since the inception of indeterminate sentence for public protection were over IPP sentences are shown in the tables below. The tariff (a) having had a parole hearing and (b) not yet information has been collated from data held by the having had a parole hearing on the most recent date for Parole Board. It is broken down by month and financial which figures are available; [300818] year categorised as: resolved by oral hearing; resolved (2) how many cases involving prisoners serving by paper decision; deferred or adjourned at hearing; indeterminate sentences for public protection processed and cancelled or deferred before the hearing was convened. by the Parole Board were (a) resolved, (b) deferred or (The monthly split for cases deferred or adjourned at adjourned at the hearing and (c) deferred or cancelled the hearing is not available for the financial year 2006-07.)

2006-07 Deferred or adjourned at Cancelled or deferred pre- Resolved by oral hearing Resolved by paper decision hearing hearing

April 2006 3 0 n/a 0 May 2006 0 0 n/a 2 June 2006 1 0 n/a 1 July 2006 1 0 n/a 2 August 2006 2 0 n/a 0 September 2006 3 0 n/a 4 October 2006 2 0 n/a 5 November 2006 5 0 n/a 3 December 2006 7 0 n/a 1 January 2007 5 0 n/a 4 February 2007 10 0 n/a 5 March 2007 11 0 n/a 6 Financial year total 50 0 124 33 1 This is the annual total as monthly figures are not available for 2006-07 2007-08 Deferred or adjourned at Cancelled or deferred pre- Resolved by oral hearing Resolved by paper decision hearing hearing

April 2007 12 0 1 6 May 2007 11 0 2 3 June 2007 22 0 3 6 July 2007 30 0 3 16 August 2007 15 0 0 6 September 2007 33 0 8 11 339W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 340W

2007-08 Deferred or adjourned at Cancelled or deferred pre- Resolved by oral hearing Resolved by paper decision hearing hearing

October 2007 13 0 4 0 November 2007 32 8 7 11 December 2007 17 0 6 2 January 2008 8 4 3 3 February 2008 6 3 4 6 March 2008 10 10 3 2 Financial year total 209 25 44 72

2008-09 Deferred or adjourned at Cancelled or deferred pre Resolved, by oral hearing Resolved by paper decision hearing hearing

April 2008 18 3 5 5 May 2008 21 9 5 3 June 2008 30 5 4 11 July 2008 25 3 10 13 August 2008 32 0 9 5 September 2008 40 2 7 11 October 2008 47 1088 November 2008 45 9 13 8 December 2008 49 13 14 19 January 2009 31 7 14 18 February 2009 54 33 16 20 March 2009 41 35 18 10 Financial year total 433 119 123 131 1 Figures for resolved by paper decision are not available for October 2008 2009-10 Deferred or adjourned at Cancelled or deferred pre- Resolved by oral hearing Resolved by paper decision hearing hearing

April 2009 46 28 4 14 May 2009 46 46 6 12 June 2009 84 35 21 23 July 2009 84 25 21 24 August 2009 47 31 21 22 September 2009 83 38 10 19 Financial year total 390 203 83 114

Prisoners Transfers However, I would emphasis that in establishing the OLC, we are creating a completely new culture in complaints Alan Duncan: To ask the Secretary of State for handling. The Legal Services Act 2007 introduces a Justice whether the recent inquiry into the fresh approach to the regulation of legal services and inappropriate transfer of prisoners between HM the change in complaints handling is an integral part of Prison Pentonville and HM Prison Wandsworth has that. considered whether staff should be dismissed; and if he We are currently in discussion with the Office for will make a statement. [300947] Legal Complaints (OLC), the Law Society and other approved regulators on the practical requirements for Maria Eagle: In each case, the hearing authority transition from the old complaints handling regime to considered the allegations against individual members the new system under the OLC, and the implications of staff in the light of all of the available evidence. The this will have on staff employed by the current complaints allegations were found proven against three members of handling bodies. It is essential throughout this process staff who consequently received disciplinary penalties. that the high standard of service consumers expect is maintained, while also ensuring that staff receive full Prisoners Transfers support. Any arrangement will be aligned with the assurance I made to this House that, in creating the Lynne Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice OLC, the principles of TUPE will apply to the transfer whether the staff of the Legal Complaints Service (LCS) of staff. will have the right to move to the Office for Legal Complaints (OLC) under transfer of undertakings, protection of employment regulations when the work Prisons: Drugs of the LCS is transferred to the OLC. [301417] Alan Duncan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Bridget Prentice: I realise that this is an uncertain and what the cost to his Department was of dispensing anxious time for many staff, but can assure you that an methadone prescriptions in prisons in England and announcement will be made in the near future. Wales in each of the last five years. [300946] 341W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 342W

Phil Hope: I have been asked to reply. £000 This information is not held centrally. Since 2006, the national health service has been responsible for the Surrey Probation Board 10,564 commissioning of clinical services in prisons, including Sussex Probation Board 18,074 the administration of medicines. Individual budgetary Thames Valley Probation Board 25,776 costs are therefore the concern of local NHS primary Derbyshire Probation Board 14,186 care trusts (PCTs). Leicestershire Probation Trust 15,273 With the introduction of the Integrated Drug Treatment Lincolnshire Probation Board 9,464 System (IDTS), methadone treatment for drug dependence Northamptonshire Probation Board 9,279 has become increasingly available in prison. The purpose Nottinghamshire Probation Board 19,327 of IDTS is to bring improvements to the quality and Avon and Somerset Probation Board 20,453 volume of drug treatment in prisons. Since 2006, the Devon and Cornwall Probation Board 20,351 Department of Health has allocated four waves of Dorset Probation Board 9,445 IDTS funding to NHS PCTs to implement enhanced Gloucestershire Probation Board 7,881 prison clinical drug treatment: Wiltshire Probation Trust 8,064 London Probation Board 151,093 Funding (£ million) Total 892,185 2006-07 7.8 2007-08 11.5 Overall probation is forecasting an underspend of 2008-09 23.2 £2 million for 2009-10. 2009-10 39.7 Sentencing: Young Offenders Probation: Expenditure Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Garnier: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Justice how many young people aged (a) under 18 and what the estimated outturn of each probation area (b) 18 years old received a (i) community rehabilitation budget for financial year 2010-11 was at the time the order, (ii) supervision order, (iii) community budgets were set; and what his most recent estimate is. punishment order, (iv) attendance centre order, (v) [300263] curfew order, (vi) reparation order, (vii) action plan order and (viii) referral order in the most recent year Maria Eagle: There is no estimated outturn for 2010-11. for which figures are available. [301320] However the forecast outturn for 2009-10 is shown in the following table: Claire Ward: The information requested is shown in the following table. £000 Persons sentenced to community sentences by age and type of Durham Probation Board 10,615 sentence, 2007: England and Wales Northumbria Probation Board 28,608 Number of persons Teesside Probation Board 13,409 Under 18 18 Dyfed Powys Probation Trust 8,860 Community Rehabilitation Order 1,851 169 Gwent Probation Board 10,805 Supervision Order 11,952 1— North Wales Probation Board 12,317 Community Punishment Order 1,915 101 South Wales Probation Trust 24,385 Attendance Centre Order 3,199 139 Humberside Probation Trust 18,543 Curfew Order 4,690 200 North Yorkshire Probation Board 9,816 Reparation Order 4,055 1— South Yorkshire Probation Board 25,003 Action Plan Order 4,865 1— West Yorkshire Probation Board 41,789 Referral Order 32,142 1— Cheshire Probation Board 15,162 1 Not applicable. These orders can only be given to those aged Cumbria Probation Board 8,667 under 18. Greater Manchester Probation Trust 52,942 Notes: Lancashire Probation Trust 24,532 1. These figures have been drawn from administrative data systems. Although care is taken when processing and analysing the returns, the Merseyside Probation Trust 32,550 detail collected is subject to the inaccuracies inherent in any large Staffordshire Probation Board 16,904 scale recording system. Warwickshire Probation Board 7,177 2. Totals for 18-year-olds will not include any offenders aged 18 whose West Mercia Probation Trust 15,217 age was not recorded in court IT systems. Source: West Midlands Probation Board 57,319 Justice Statistics Analytical Services, Ministry of Justice Bedfordshire Probation Board 9,475 Cambridgeshire Probation Board 10,098 This data has been taken from the Ministry of Justice Essex Probation Board 19,392 Court Proceedings database. This data is presented on Hertfordshire Probation Board 11,464 the principal offence basis: where an offender has been Norfolk Probation Board 11,582 sentenced for more than one offence the principal offence Suffolk Probation Board 10,019 is the one for which the heaviest sentence was imposed; Hampshire Probation Board 24,834 where the same sentence has been imposed for two or more offences the principal offence is the one for which Kent Probation Board 21,470 the statutory maximum is most severe. 343W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 344W

HEALTH Mr. Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many (a) elective and (b) emergency bed days Ambulance Services: Lancashire were accounted for by breast cancer patients in each year since 1997-98 (A) in total and (B) broken down by (i) primary care trust area of responsibility and (ii) Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Health cancer network area of responsibility, as recorded in how many attacks on ambulance staff there have been the Hospital Episodes Statistics database; and at what in each constituency in Lancashire in each of the last overall cost to the public purse. [300551] five years. [301410] Ann Keen: Tables showing the count of finished Ann Keen: This information is not available centrally consultant episode (FCE) bed days where the primary and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. diagnosis was breast cancer, separated into emergency Since 2004-05, the number of physical assaults against and elective admissions and split by primary care trust staff reported by national health service bodies in England responsibility, for the years 1997-08 to 2008-09 have has been collected annually by the NHS Security been placed in the Library. Management Service. FCE bed day data are not available at cancer network The numbers of physical assaults reported against level. Information on the cost of bed days is not available staff by the ambulance trusts serving Lancashire in the centrally. period 2004-05 to 2008-09 are shown in the following table. Mr. Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what the ratio of mastectomies to breast conserving 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 surgical procedures was in (a) England, (b) each cancer network and (c) each primary care trust area in each of Lancashire 159———the last five years for which figures are available. Ambulance [300554] Service NHS Trust Ann Keen: Tables showing ratio of mastectomies to North West — — 166 234 169 breast conserving surgical procedures where breast cancer Ambulance was recorded have been placed in the Library. Service NHS Trust The information has been provided for England and Note: for primary care trusts. Information is not centrally The North West Ambulance Service NHS Trust was established on 1 held for cancer networks. July 2006 as an amalgamation of the Lancashire Ambulance Service NHS Trust, the Cumbria Ambulance Service NHS Trust, the Mr. Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Merseyside and Cheshire Ambulance Service NHS Trust and the what proportion of women undergoing surgery for Greater Manchester Ambulance Service NHS Trust. breast cancer received immediate breast reconstruction surgery in (a) England, (b) each cancer network and Bone Marrow Disorders: Donors (c) each primary care trust area in the latest period for which figures are available. [300555] Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) what proportion of patients who have received Ann Keen: The information requested is not available treatment for bone marrow cancer received bone in the format requested. marrow from (a) UK and (b) non-UK donors in the The National Mastectomy and Breast Reconstruction latest period for which figures are available; [300669] Audit (NMBRA) only collects data on patients having (2) what proportion of UK cancer patients received mastectomy for breast cancer, not all surgery for breast bone marrow from US donors in the latest period for cancer. The data is available at a national and cancer which figures are available. [300670] network level, but not at primary care trust level. The data has been taken from the NMBRA 2 Annual Ann Keen: The Department does not hold this Report, published in October 2009. This publication is information centrally. available online at: www.ic.nhs.uk/services/national-clinical-audit-support- Breast Cancer programme-ncasp/audit-reports/mastectomy-and-breast- reconstruction The audit collected data on patients who have had a Mr. Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health mastectomy, with or without immediate reconstruction, how many (a) admissions and (b) emergency admissions or delayed reconstruction for breast cancer mastectomy for breast cancer there have been in (i) England, (ii) patients between 1 January 2008 and 31 March 2009. each primary care trust area of responsibility and (iii) each cancer network area of responsibility, as recorded When the aAudit closed for submissions 15,479 female in the Hospital Episodes Statistics database in each of mastectomy patients had been entered into the data collection system. Of these 3,216 women underwent the last five years. [300549] immediate breast reconstruction. Ann Keen: Tables showing count of finished admission Percentage of women by cancer network who accepted an offer of an immediate episodes and emergency finished admission episodes reconstruction where the primary diagnosis was breast cancer have Cancer network Compliance (percentage) been placed in the Library. The information has been 3 counties 26.5 provided for England and for primary care trusts. Anglia 21.4 Information is not centrally held for cancer networks. Arden 12.8 345W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 346W

Percentage of women by cancer network who accepted an offer of an immediate Percentage of cancer networks compliant with measure 3A (The Specialist reconstruction Palliative Care Team) of the Manual for Cancer Services (2004) Cancer network Compliance (percentage) Cancer network Compliance (percentage)

Avon, Somerset and Wiltshire 21.1 Greater Manchester and Cheshire 68 Central South Coast 23.3 Greater Midlands 60 Derby/Burton 16.3 Humber and Yorkshire Coast 58 Dorset 13.7 Kent and Medway 65 Essex 42.8 Lancashire and South Cumbria 33 Greater Manchester and Cheshire 16.1 Leicester, Northamptonshire, 70 Greater Midlands 18.0 Rutland Humber and Yorkshire Coast 26.2 Merseyside and Cheshire 61 Kent and Medway 17.1 Mid Trent 82 Lancashire and South Cumbria 19.3 Mount Vernon 41 Leicestershire, Northamptonshire and 9.1 North East London 69 Rutland North London 41 Merseyside and Cheshire 22.3 North of England Cancer Network 70 Mid Trent 18.6 North Trent 72 Mount Vernon 20.0 Pan-Birmingham 57 North East London 23.6 Peninsula 68 North London 25.9 South East London 68 North of England 9.9 South West London 81 North Trent 10.5 Surrey, West Sussex and Hampshire 59 Pan Birmingham 11.1 Sussex 14 Peninsula 13.7 Thames Valley 57 South East London 34.5 West London 67 South West London 31.7 Yorkshire 77 Surrey, West Sussex and Hampshire 36.1 Source: Sussex 25.2 National Cancer Peer Review Programme 2004-07 Thames Valley 17.7 The following table shows the percentage of cancer West London 24.4 networks that were compliant with quality measure Yorkshire 16.8 1E-1, which covers cross-cutting services for palliative Notes: 1. All eligible national health service trusts in England have participated in the care across network palliative care groups. Audit but case ascertainment is not 100 per cent. for all trusts. Therefore the Percentage of cancer networks compliant with measure 1E-1 (Functions of the audit’s data does not cover all eligible patients. Network Palliative Care Group) of the Manual for Cancer Services (2004) 2. The second Annual Report reported on the 30 cancer networks that existed when the audit began in January 2008. Subsequently, Mid Trent; Derby/Burton; Cancer network Compliance (percentage) and Leicestershire, Northamptonshire and Rutland combined to become East Midlands Cancer Network, and there are currently 28 cancer networks. 3 Counties 74 Arden 70 Cancer Avon, Somerset and Wiltshire 74 Black Country 70 Mr. Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Cancer Care Alliance 65 what the percentage compliance was of each cancer Central South Coast 83 network with (a) 3A and (b) 1E-1 measures, as set out Derby/Burton 100 in section 8.5 of his Department’s Cancer Commissioning Dorset 78 Guidance published in December 2008. [300557] Greater Manchester and Cheshire 74 Greater Midlands 48 Ann Keen: The Manual for Cancer Services (2004) Humber and Yorkshire Coast 52 contains a number of quality measures for commissioners Kent and Medway 87 and providers of national health service services. Lancashire and South Cumbria 17 Compliance against the measures was last reviewed Leicester, Northamptonshire, 74 under the National Cancer Peer Review Programme Rutland 2004-07. Merseyside and Cheshire 78 The following table shows the percentage of cancer Mid Trent 96 networks that were compliant with quality measure 3A, Mount Vernon 22 which covers cross-cutting services provided by specialist North East London 57 palliative care multi-disciplinary teams. North London 43 North of England Cancer Network 91 Percentage of cancer networks compliant with measure 3A (The Specialist North Trent 65 Palliative Care Team) of the Manual for Cancer Services (2004) North West Midlands 22 Cancer network Compliance (percentage) Pan-Birmingham 43 3 Counties 65 Peninsula 61 Anglia Cancer Network 51 South East London 70 Arden 61 South Essex 61 Avon, Somerset and Wiltshire 64 South West London 87 Central South Coast 56 Surrey, West Sussex and Hampshire 65 Derby/Burton 90 Sussex 35 Dorset 81 Thames Valley 96 Essex Cancer Network 67 West Anglia 61 347W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 348W

Percentage of cancer networks compliant with measure 1E-1 (Functions of the by primary care trusts in England, as recommended in Network Palliative Care Group) of the Manual for Cancer Services (2004) the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence Cancer network Compliance (percentage) guideline 71; [300466] West London 52 (3) what measures his Department has in place to Yorkshire 83 monitor the implementation of the National Institute Source: for Health and Clinical Excellence guidance on familial National Cancer Peer Review Programme 2004-07 hypercholesterolemia; and if he will make a statement. Cancer: Health Services [300467] Ann Keen: The Department has not made any assessment Mr. Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health or given any guidance to primary care trusts on the what the estimated total expenditure on (a) cancer care delivery of cascade testing for families diagnosed with and (b) breast cancer care was in (i) England, (ii) each familial hypercholesterolemia and has no plans to do cancer network area and (iii) for each primary care so. trust in each of the last five years; and how much was The Department has no measures in place to monitor spent on (A) inpatient costs excluding those relating to the implementation of the National Institute for Health surgery, (B) surgery including daycare and inpatient and Clinical Excellence guidance on familial stays, (C) drugs, cost of medicine preparation and hypercholesterolemia. We are facilitating work on a administration, (D) outpatients, diagnostics, first Primary Care Services Framework on familial and follow-up appointments, (E) screening, (F) hypercholesterolemia which is underway at the moment. radiotherapy, (G) specialist palliative care (excluding voluntary sector) and (H) other, calculated through the The Department has commissioned NHS Primary same method as that used to calculate the chart on Care Commissioning to develop, with stakeholders, a page 119 of his Department’s Cancer Reform Strategy, Primary Care Service Framework (PCSF) on Familial Hypercholesterolemia (FH). PCSFs are model specifications published on 3 December 2007 in each year. [300552] (without benchmark prices) that provide a source of guidance, advice and support to primary care trusts and Ann Keen: Tables showing estimated expenditure on other National Health Service organisations to effectively cancer care and breast cancer care for England, primary commission and provide services using local contacts. care trusts (PCTs) and cancer networks have been placed in the Library. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Information on cancer care has been provided for England and PCTs for the last five years. Information on cancer care has been provided for cancer networks Ms Barlow: To ask the Secretary of State for Health from 2004-05, as this is the first year that the information if his Department will consider the merits of inclusion became available. Information for breast cancer care of the therapeutic strategy of pacing as part of the has been provided from 2006-07 as this is the first year treatment packages offered by specialist chronic fatigue that data were collected at sub-category level for a syndrome/myalgic encephalopathy services. [300271] number of tumour types. Ann Keen: It is the responsibility of health professionals, The information requested on in-patient costs excluding working in conjunction with the wishes of individual those relating to surgery, surgery including daycare and patients, to use their clinical judgement to decide on the in-patient stays, drugs, cost of medicine preparation most appropriate treatment package for those living and administration, outpatients, diagnostics, first and with chronic fatigue syndrome/myalgic encephalomyelitis follow-up appointments, screening, radiotherapy, specialist (CFS/ME). palliative care (excluding voluntary sector) and “other” is not routinely available. Detailed guidelines on the treatment and diagnosis of CFS/ME were published by the National Institute for The estimated total national health service spend on Health and Clinical Excellence in August 2007. cancer care represented in the graph on page 119 of the Cancer Reform Strategy was an analysis commissioned specifically for inclusion in the strategy. It was based on Departmental Food a wide range of data from 2005-06, and the sources of these data are quoted in the strategy. An estimated NHS Mr. Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for spend on cancer care under the same categories of that Health (1) what estimate he has made of the graph is not available for any other years, and could be proportion of (a) lamb, (b) beef, (c) chicken, (d) obtained only at disproportionate cost. pork, (e) turkey, (f) other meats, (g) vegetables and (h) fruit procured by his Department that was Cholesterol produced in the UK in the latest period for which figures are available; and if he will make a statement; [300190] Mike Penning: To ask the Secretary of State for (2) how many Christmas parties his Department Health (1) what guidance his Department has given to plans to host in 2009; what has been budgeted for each primary care trusts on the delivery of cascade testing such reception; what estimate he has made of the for families of patients diagnosed with familial proportion of (a) lamb, (b) beef, (c) chicken, (d) hypercholesterolemia; [300465] pork, (e) turkey, (f) other meats, (g) vegetables, (h) (2) what assessment his Department has made of the fruit and (i) alcohol to be served at each such function effectiveness of provision of cascade testing for families of which is produced in the UK; and if he will make a patients diagnosed with familial hypercholesterolemia statement. [300873] 349W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 350W

Phil Hope: The proportion of domestically produced fund these parties themselves. The Department does food procured by the Department has gone up from not collect information about the Christmas functions 58.5 per cent. in 2006-07 to 74 per cent. in 2007-08. hosted or attended by officials in the Department and Figures for 2008-09 are not currently available. to do so would incur disproportionate cost. Quadrant Catering provides the staff restaurant and hospitality catering at the Department of Health sites Departmental Internet in London and Eurest Services provides the same services to the Department of Work and Pensions, which includes Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Health the Quarry House site in Leeds where some Health how many (a) page hits and (b) visitors his employees are based. Both Quadrant Catering and Eurest Department’s website received in 2008-09. [301854] Services are part of Compass Group UK and Ireland, one of the United Kingdom’s largest contract caterers. Phil Hope: The following table shows the number of Specific information about British products used within page hits, visits and unique visitors by month to the the Department of Health and Department of Work Department’s website from April 2008 to March 2009. and Pensions contracts is listed as follows. This information The annual total of page hits for the year was 65,456,247. was made publicly available in late 2008 and there will The annual total of visits for the year was 15,298,880. be another report produced towards the end of 2009. A visit commences when a user, having opened their Proportion of domestically produced food used (by value), i.e. indigenously browser, loads a page for the first time. On closing their produced, 1 April 2007 to 31 March 2008 browser, the visit is ended. Thus a session can include Percentage multiple page hits.

Bakery—e.g. bread loaves and rolls (i.e. origin of 100 The table also shows the number of unique visitors ingredients used and not where baked) for each month. Unique visitors are visitors loading pages from the site during the specified time scale (in Dairy this case a calendar month). A unique visitor is counted Whole eggs (i.e. in shells) 100 once within the time scale, and can make multiple visits Fresh milk (e.g. whole, semi-skimmed, skimmed) 100 during the time scale. Cheese 85 Unique visitors in month Visits in month Page hits Vegetables, salads and fruit March 2009 1,033,680 1,532,397 6,383,331 Ware potatoes—whole, unprepared 95 February 2009 924,026 1,361,442 5,642,052 Processed potatoes—for prepared both whole and cut 95 January 2009 1,017,122 1,507,257 6,205,364 Roots and onions—e.g. carrots, parsnips, onions, 95 December 2008 696,636 1,041,753 4,403,460 turnips and Swedes November 2008 874,024 1,278,086 5,578,886 Brassicas—e.g. brussel sprouts, cabbage and 64 cauliflower October 2008 849,325 1,257,254 5,555,268 Legumes—e.g. beans (broad), beans (runner and 50 September 2008 772,629 1,126,097 4,717,921 dwarf), peas (green for market), peas (green for August 2008 580,293 859,571 3,647,145 processing), peas (harvested dry) July 2008 806,832 1,226,589 5,122,615 Protected vegetables—e.g. tomatoes (round, vine, 25 June 2008 964,577 1,389,120 5,883,074 plum and cherry), tomatoes (cold), cucumbers, lettuce, celery, sweet peppers May 2008 914,972 1,316,806 5,842,608 Other vegetables—e.g. asparagus, celery, leeks, lettuce, 51 April 2008 959,929 1,402,508 6,474,523 watercress Orchard fruit—e.g. dessert apples, culinary apples, 51 pears, plums Departmental Pay Soft fruit—e.g. strawberries, raspberries, blackberries, 41 blackcurrants John Mason: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what (a) bonuses and (b) incentives have been paid to Meat and poultry (i) consultants and (ii) contractors engaged by his Poultry meat 100 Department in each of the last three years. [300637] Beef and veal 85 Mutton and lamb 60 Phil Hope: The Department does not directly employ Bacon 0 consultants or contractors. Consequently, details of Pork 85 their salaries are not held by the Department as they are a matter for individuals and their employing company. Fish 40 Management consultancy organisations are commercially contracted by the Department. Contracts are based on Overall percentage indigenous food 74 satisfactory completion of set tasks defined in the contracted Overall percentage indigenous food by value if 75 scope of works. Unsatisfactory delivery of these tasks available would result in payment being withheld by the Department in line with the terms of each contract. All expenditure by civil servants is undertaken in Contractors are engaged through commercial contracts accordance with the “Civil Service Management Code” by individual directorates. While there may be instances and in accordance with the principles of Managing where incentives relating to successful outcomes have Public Money and the Treasury handbook on Regularity been used, information breaking down costs paid to and Propriety. The Department does not fund internal individual contractors is not held centrally on the Christmas parties for officials, and staff are expected to Department’s business management system. 351W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 352W

Departmental Recruitment Drugs: Rehabilitation

Mr. Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mr. Burrowes: To ask the Secretary of State for what proportion of jobs advertised by his Department Health how many residential drug rehabilitation places in the last 12 months were online only applications; there are in England; and what proportion of such and what provision his Department makes for those places was in use on the most recent date for which wishing to apply for jobs in his Department who do not figures are available. [301745] have access to the internet. [301551] Gillian Merron: The National Treatment Agency for Phil Hope: The Department does not routinely collect Substance Misuse maintains a voluntary national online this information centrally. directory of organisations that provide residential drug The Department follows the Civil Service Commissioners’ and/or alcohol rehabilitation services. There are currently Recruitment Principles when advertising all vacancies over 120 residential services listed with 2,565 beds in externally. England. Most of the beds are available for drug or alcohol rehabilitation and therefore cannot be disaggregated. Departmental Taxis Some services have chosen not to appear in the directory so the total number of places will be greater than this. Ian Stewart: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Data on bed vacancies are collected as part of the what contracts his Department has with private hire related, and optional, BEDVACS service. The latest taxi companies; and what expenditure his Department occupancy figure for the 116 services currently using has incurred against each such contract in each of the BEDVACS was 83.5 per cent. on 17 November 2009. last three years. [300828] Mr. Burrowes: To ask the Secretary of State for Phil Hope: The Department had contracts with Addison Health (1) what his most recent estimate is of the Lee over the last three years and with GDCA Green average annual cost of an opiate substitute prescription Cars during 2008-09. for a problem drug user; [301900] The expenditure against each contract is as follows: (2) what his most recent estimate is of the average number of months during which a problem drug user £ takes a prescribed opiate substitute. [301901] Addison Lee GDCA Green Cars

2006-07 306,310 — Gillian Merron: Drug treatment in England consists 2007-08 336,934 — of various types of treatment, depending on the 2008-09 291,985 22,935 circumstances of the service user, including opiate substitute prescribing. A service user may therefore receive many Both contracts were cancelled recently in order to different treatments over time which makes it difficult reduce the Department’s carbon footprint and save to isolate the cost of a single component such as substitute money. prescribing. The National Drug Treatment Monitoring System Diabetes operated by the National Treatment Agency for Substance Misuse (NTA) records the type of treatment interventions Mark Hunter: To ask the Secretary of State for each person receives, e.g. ‘specialist prescribing’ (from a Health what recent assessment his Department has specialist drug service) and ‘GP prescribing’ (from their made of the adequacy of (a) psychological support general practitioner). It does not record the medication and (b) education for people suffering from (i) Type 1 prescribed. and (ii) Type 2 diabetes; and what steps he plans to take to improve such support. [300860] The annual cost of a person in a prescribing intervention is estimated at between £2,000 and £5,000, depending Ann Keen: We have not made any recent assessments on the medication prescribed, the intensity of their into the adequacy of either psychological support or treatment and ancillary support. education for people suffering from (i) Type 1 and (ii) Data on the length of time that an opiate substitute is Type 2 diabetes. It is for primary care trusts to commission prescribed are not collected centrally, however research comprehensive diabetes services that meet the needs of shows that staying in treatment for at least 12 weeks has their local population. a lasting positive benefit in reducing the harm associated We recognise the important role emotional and with dependence. psychological support has in enabling people with diabetes It is important to note that the duration of drug to self-manage their condition on a day-to-day basis. treatment varies markedly according to individual need The Department is working with National Health Service and that it is not unusual for drug users to go in and out Diabetes and Diabetes UK to identify what needs to be of treatment several times, often over several years, done to enable the national health service and local care before becoming drug-free. Additionally, national clinical services to meet the psychological and emotional needs guidelines do not specify how long a person should be of all people with diabetes. in treatment. Since the publication of the Department of Health Prescribing an opiate substitute has benefits for both and Diabetes UK joint report: ‘Structured Patient the patient and society.It allows the patient an opportunity Education in Diabetes’ in June 2005, a copy of which to stabilise their drug intake and lifestyle while breaking has been placed in the Library, we have been working with the cyclic nature of illicit drug use and dependency, with NHS Diabetes to find ways to increase the spread allowing them to take responsibility for their children, of patient education programmes. earn their own living and to keep a stable home. 353W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 354W

Genetically Modified Organisms: Maize Health: Learning Disability

Alan Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State Health which studies of links between genetically for Health how many and what proportion of GP modified corn and infertility in mice his Department practices use Directed Enhanced Service for annual has considered in the last two years; and how many health checks for people with learning disabilities. genes were found by those studies to be expressed [301372] differently in the mice which were fed genetically Phil Hope: This information is not available centrally. modified corn. [301228] We are however monitoring primary care trusts’ spend on this directed enhanced service and have commissioned Gillian Merron: The Food Standards Agency has an independent survey of activity, by general practitioner sought advice from the Advisory Committee on Novel practices, on this directed enhanced service. Both data Foods and Processes (ACNFP) regarding what conclusions sources suggest that since this directed enhanced service may be drawn from the following publication: was introduced the number of health checks given to “Velimirov et al., (2008), Forschungsberichte der Sektion patients with learning disabilities has increased significantly, IV, Band 3/2008”, published by the Austrian Ministry with overall expenditure expected to almost double of Health. from £6 million in 2008-09 to over £11 million in This is a summary report that presents the results of 2009-10. investigations into the fertility of mice fed diets containing Learning Disability: Administration of Justice a type of genetically modified (GM) maize (NK603 x MON810) and two types of non-GM maize. This research Mr. Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health project also included a number of studies on third what representations he has received on the new generation mice fed on these diets, including an innovative regulatory arrangements for improving access to justice microarray analysis of ribonucleic acid levels that found for people with a learning disability; and if he will large number of differences between the GM and non-GM make a statement. [301411] groups. Based on this analysis the authors reported that a total of 440 genes were expressed differently in these Phil Hope: We are not aware of having received any two groups and a large number of differences were also representations on the new regulatory arrangements for seen between mice fed on two types of non-GM maize. improving access to justice for people with a learning The authors reported that it was not possible to draw disability. any general conclusion from these findings. However, we do seek views from the Working for The ACNFP considered this report at its meeting in Justice Group when we are developing policy on the November 2008 and advised that it was not possible to implementation of Valuing People Now and delivering draw any conclusions about cause and effect or to assess training to the criminal justice system. the significance of this report for human health. The minutes of this meeting are available on the ACNFP Liver Diseases: Transplant Surgery website at: www.acnfp.gov.uk/meetings/acnfpmeet08/acnfpmeet20nov08/ Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State acnfpmin20nov08 for Health what steps he is taking to develop a new liver allocation scheme. [301356] Health: Children Ann Keen: A proposal document has been accepted by the Liver Selection and Allocation Working Party—part Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State of NHS Blood and Transplant’s (NHSBT) Liver Advisory for Health (1) whether the Child Health Interim Group—with four key stages: agreeing the aims of Application is still supported by manual systems; transplantation (maximising survival from the point of whether it can issue COVER reports; what recent registration onto a transplant list); developing statistical progress has been made in the development and models which can predict as accurately as possible a implementation of the Application; and if he will make patient’s survival without a liver transplant; developing a statement; [301361] models to predict survival after liver transplantation; (2) which primary care trusts in London use the and comparing four possible models of allocation. Child Health Interim Application; and what estimate The process is being overseen by the Liver Selection he has made of the number of children resident in and Allocation Working Party, reviewed by the Liver areas served by such trusts. [301362] Advisory Group at NHSBT who will make final recommendations to the NHS BT Board for their Ann Keen: The child health interim application (CHIA) ratification. The modelling is expected to finish by was introduced in response to a decision in early 2005 to March 2010. A 12 month simulation will then follow, withdraw support for the ageing Regional Interactive with the aim of having a final model for implementation Child Health System (RICHS) from 10 primary care by April 2011. trusts (PCTs) in London taken by its commercial supplier. CHIA was delivered to these PCTs at short notice by Lung Cancer BT, the London local service provider under the national programme for information technology, as an interim Mark Simmonds: To ask the Secretary of State for measure at the request of the local national health Health what assessment he made of the finding of the service. This is now being taken forward by the local National Lung Cancer Audit for 2007 that only 51 per NHS and so the hon. Member may wish to contact the cent. of lung cancer patients receive any form of active Chief Executive of NHS London. treatment; and if he will make a statement. [301629] 355W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 356W

Ann Keen: The quality of the submitted data has Manchester Mental Health and Social Care NHS Trust improved compared with previous years and, overall, measures of process and outcome of care appear to be improving. The National Cancer Director has encouraged Graham Stringer: To ask the Secretary of State for all networks and trusts to review their own data and to Health what the cost to the public purse was of the take action, especially if they fall below the helpful financial settlement reached between the Manchester benchmarks set out at the end of the report. The NHS Mental Health NHS and Social Care Trust and its Information Centre has offered trusts a local action former chief executive. [301737] planning toolkit to help them do this effectively. Ann Keen: The information requested in relation to the financial settlement between Manchester Mental Mark Simmonds: To ask the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care National Health Service Trust Health what steps his Department is taking to assist and its former chief executive is confidential. the Lung Cancer Awareness Month initiative. [301631]

Ann Keen: We are committed to raising awareness of Mental Health Services: Finance the signs and symptoms of cancer, and this is a key focus of the “Cancer Reform Strategy”, published in Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health December 2007. A copy has already been placed in the what the mental health budget was in each of the last Library. 30 years. [300912] We know that awareness weeks and months for specific cancer types can be an effective way of raising awareness Phil Hope: This information is not available in the of cancer. As part of this year’s Lung Cancer Awareness format requested. Data are collected by the Department Month, we have provided funding of £15,000 for lung from the programme budgeting data collection from cancer awareness leaflets to be sent to all pharmacies in 2003-04 onwards. Prior to this, data was collected through England for public distribution. This is the second year the national health service Health and Community that we have provided funding for these leaflets. Health Services collection (HCHS). The two data collections A stakeholder group has been formed to address lung are not compatible, and the HCHS data set underestimates cancer awareness at a strategic level. The Lung Cancer total expenditure, so has not been used. Awareness Action and Advisory Group is working to Data on mental health budgets from 2003-04 to raise awareness of lung cancer. 2007-08 only are available from the NHS programme budget data collections for mental health disorders and Through the National Awareness and Early Diagnosis this is shown in the table. Initiative, formally launched in November 2008, we are working to raise awareness of the signs and symptoms Department of Health: Programme budget data collection total of cancer, including lung cancer, amongst the public expenditure on mental health services by the NHS in England 2003-04 to 2007-08 and health professionals. This work includes: the development of key messages on a number of cancers Expenditure (£000) (key messages for lung cancer are available on the NHS 2003-04 7,386,096 Choices website at: 2004-05 7,905,131 www.nhs.uk/pathways/lungcancer/pages/symptoms.aspx; 2005-06 8,538,755 2006-07 9,125,740 carrying out a baseline national cancer symptom awareness 2007-08 10,291,979 survey; commissioning an audit of cancer diagnoses in Source: Department of Health. primary care; and providing funding for a number of cancer awareness campaigns. As part of the Initiative, almost £5 million has been Mental Health: Unemployed allocated to the national health service to support cancer networks and primary care trusts in implementing local Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health services that will improve awareness of cancers, including what his most recent assessment is of the effect of lung cancer, and promote early diagnosis. unemployment on a person’s mental health. [300409] The Department is investing in a campaign to raise awareness of the signs and symptoms of lung, breast Phil Hope: The Department has not commissioned and bowel cancers to encourage people with symptoms research on the impact of the economic downturn on to seek help earlier than they do currently.The Improvement levels of demand for mental health services. However, Foundation’s Healthy Communities Collaborative is we recognise that there are links between poor mental working in 20 of the most deprived areas of the country to health and difficult economic circumstances. target those most at risk and is working with local people to develop and test methods of awareness raising. Thanks to nine consecutive years of increased spending, mental health services in England are now better prepared In addition, the Department and the Football Foundation than ever before to provide help for people who are are jointly funding the Ahead of the Game programme. affected by the economic downturn. Many more staff, Ahead of the Game is a one-year pilot programme more community mental health services and increased that uses the appeal of football to raise awareness of access to psychological therapies have transformed services lung, bowel and prostate cancers in men aged 55 and since 1997. Our New Horizons vision, to be published over. shortly, will build upon these achievements. 357W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 358W

Musculoskeletal Disorders: Voluntary Organisations Patient Safety Agency since 2005. There was no central reporting system in place prior to 2003 and no such Paul Rowen: To ask the Secretary of State for Health patient safety incidents were reported in 2003 and 2004. what recent discussions he has had with voluntary and The detailed breakdown is in the following table: community organisations concerned with the delivery of care to patients with musculoskeletal conditions. Incidents—surgical removal of foreign objects [301107] 2005 9 Ann Keen: The Secretary of State has had no recent 2006 27 discussions with voluntary or community organisations 2007 19 concerned with the delivery of care to patients with 2008 5 musculoskeletal conditions. Source: On 20 January 2009, Lord Darzi, then Parliamentary National Patient Safety Agency Under-Secretary of State, met with a group of stakeholders to discuss the research of the Rheumatology Futures Swine Flu: Babies Group. This stakeholder group included representatives of the national rheumatoid arthritis society (NRAS) Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Health and the British Society for Rheumatology. what protection from swine influenza is available for On 25 November 2009, a meeting took place between babies under the age of six months; and if he will make Jenny Snell of NRAS and Mike O’Brien, Minister of a statement. [301899] State for Health Services, and a further meeting is scheduled for 1 December. Gillian Merron: Our advice to everyone is to continue to protect themselves and their babies by observing NHS: Pay good respiratory and hand hygiene (use a tissue when they cough and sneeze and then throw it away and the Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Health frequent use of soap and water or sanitizer). People how many and what proportion of NHS staff earn should contact their general practitioner (GP) if they more than £50,000 per annum. [300815] have a child under one year old who has flu-like symptoms. A GP will assess children under one year and give Ann Keen: Of the 940,674 full-time equivalent hospital advice on the use of the antiviral medication, any other and community health services staff surveyed in the relevant medication and on symptom management. People Information Centre for health and social care’s April to should keep a close eye on their child’s symptoms and if June 2009 NHS Staff Earnings Estimates, 93,614 or 10 their child suddenly gets much worse or does not improve, per cent. are estimated to have national health service they should contact their GP again. earnings of more than £50,000 a year. The appropriate antiviral medication for children Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Health under one is oral oseltamivir solution, which is made how much was paid in salary and wage costs for NHS up in national health service hospital pharmacies. We employees in the last 12 months; and what estimate he have enough of the powder for 50 per cent. of under has made of the proportion paid to such employees ones. This is a sufficient amount based on current who earn more than £50,000 per annum. [300844] advice about the numbers who may be ill during the pandemic. Ann Keen: According to the national health service Advice on the use of antiviral medicines for children financial returns and foundation trust annual reports under the age of one year has been placed in the the paybill for staff in the hospital and community Library (“Pandemic Influenza: Recommendations on health services was £39.2 billion in 2008-09. Information the use of antiviral medicines for pregnant women, on the proportion of this figure paid to staff who earn women who are breastfeeding and children under the more than £50,000 per annum is not available. age of one year”) and advice on breastfeeding and The annual salaries (excluding employers’ tax and swine flu, including ways of reducing the risk of pass flu national insurance contributions) of the hospital and from mother to baby is given on the Department’s community health services staff surveyed in the Information website at: Centre for health and social care’s April to June 2009 www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Children/Maternity/ NHS Staff Earnings Estimates are estimated to total Maternalandinfantnutrition/DH_099965 £30.8 billion, of which around 25 per cent. was paid to Neither of the swine flu vaccines used in the United staff who earned more than £50,000 a year. Kingdom vaccination programme is licensed by the European regulators for use in children under six months Surgery old.

Sandra Gidley: To ask the Secretary of State for Transplant Surgery Health how many times foreign objects requiring surgical removal have been left inside patients following an operation in each of the past 10 years. [301348] Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many transplants were done in private Ann Keen: A total of 60 patient safety incidents clinical practice in the UK involving solid organs involving foreign objects left inside patients and requiring donated after death outside the NHS in each of the last surgical removal have been reported to the National 10 years. [301367] 359W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 360W

Ann Keen: No transplant operations were carried out reserves and (b) proved recoverable reserves are of coal in private clinical practice in the United Kingdom involving in each coalfield in the UK. [301750] solid organs donated after death outside of the National Health Service. All organs donated from deceased donors are allocated to patients through the NHS. Mr. Kidney: The following table summarises the estimated operating reserves and proved recoverable reserves of ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE coal by former British Coal regions as at August 2009. Coal Figures by coalfield are commercially sensitive and for that reason cannot be provided. Dr. Kumar: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what the estimated (a) operating

Million tonnes England Central North Central West Northern Scotland Wales Total

Operating 95 19 26 50 197 387 reserves1,2 Proved recoverable 1,389 568 578 75 157 2,767 reserves3 1 Includes mines currently in the planning process. 2 Does not include closed mines that are still in licence. 3 Includes sites that are well developed, fully and partly proved and those with potential prospects. Source: The Coal Authority

Departmental Buildings (2) what recent representations he has received on the matter of risk assessment in respect of liquefied Norman Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for natural gas operations. [301429] Energy and Climate Change which (a) individuals other than Ministerial colleagues and officials of his Paul Clark: I have been asked to reply. Department and (b) organisations he met in an official In the last three years the Department for Transport capacity in the week commencing 9 November 2009. has received representations about the safety of liquefied [301158] natural gas shipping in UK waters from four correspondents. At least one of these was a spokesman Joan Ruddock: In its response to a report by the for the local campaign group ’Safe Haven’. We have Public Administration Select Committee ‘Lobbying: Access also received an e-petition with 251 signatures and a and influence in Whitehall’, the Government agreed to copy of the report produced by Dr. R. A. Cox about the publish online, on a quarterly basis, information about approach and use of risk assessments by the port authority. ministerial meetings with outside interest groups. Information for the period 1 October to 31 December The Department does not hold any risk assessments 2009 will be published by Departments as soon as the or studies produced by the port authority, other than information is ready, and will be made available on the those which are already in the public domain. Cabinet Office website in early 2010. Mr. Crabb: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Energy: Conservation and Climate Change what the role is of the (a) Health and Safety Executive, (b) Marine and Coastguard Agency Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for and (c) Environment Agency in respect of liquefied Energy and Climate Change how much has been natural gas terminal operations in the UK. [301430] allocated to the additional energy efficiency obligation in (a) 2009-10, (b) 2010-11, (c) 2011-12, (d) 2012-13 Paul Clark: I have been asked to reply. and (e) 2013-14; and (i) what proportion of funding The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) and will be for England, (ii) what carbon dioxide emissions Environment Agency (EA) together form the ’Competent reduction is expected to be achieved, (iii) how many Authority’ under the COMAH regulations (Control of properties will be affected and (iv) how many jobs will Major Accident Hazard Regulations 1999). They assess be created in each of those years. [301089] the pre-construction and pre-operation safety reports from companies wishing to establish liquefied natural Joan Ruddock [holding answer 24 November 2009]: I gas (LNG) terminals. HSE also undertake regular refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave to him on inspections of the site during its construction, and carry 23 November, Official Report, column 36W. out further inspections at the site throughout its operational Liquefied Natural Gas life to ensure the operator continues to run the site safely. Mr. Crabb: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy The Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) is and Climate Change (1) what recent representations he responsible for the regulation of safety of vessels at sea, has received on the safety of liquefied natural gas including LNG tankers for compliance with internationally shipping in UK waters; [301428] agreed safety, security and environmental standards. 361W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 362W

The MCA surveys vessels registered in the UK and The Scottish Community and Household Renewables inspects foreign-flagged vessels visiting UK ports. They Initiative has supported the following number of also check whether crew members have adequate living installations since 2003: and working conditions. Number of installations in Renewable Energy Technology Scotland

Micro Wind 202 Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Small Scale Hydro 10 Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made of the number of households in (a) England, (b) Solar Thermal 1,549 Scotland and (c) Wales to have purchased (i) micro Ground Source Heat Pump 1,026 wind, (ii) small scale hydro, (iii) solar thermal, (iv) Air Source Heat Pump 197 ground source heat pump, (v) air source heat pump, (vi) Biomass 254 biomass, (vii) solar photovoltaic and (viii) electric vehicles Solar PV 13 technologies in each of the last 10 years. [300479] The Department does not hold information on the number of households that purchase electric vehicles. Mr. Kidney [holding answer 23 November 2009]: The Department does not hold the number of all household Warm Front Scheme installations which have taken place in the last 10 years. Under the Government’s grant programmes since 2001 Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for we are able to provide the number of technologies Energy and Climate Change how much his which have received support: Department plans to spend on the Warm Front (a) Low Carbon Buildings Programme—phase one Programme in (a) 2009-10, (b) 2010-11, (c) 2011-12, Technology England Scotland Wales (d) 2012-13 and (e) 2013-14; and what estimate he has Micro Wind 539 51 69 made of the (i) proportion of such expenditure to be Small Scale 4— 1incurred in England, (ii) the carbon savings to be Hydro achieved, (iii) the number of properties affected and Solar Thermal 5,264 7 455 (iv) the number of jobs created from such expenditure Ground Source 482 1 61 in each year. [300475] Heat Pump Air Source Heat 141 — 12 Mr. Kidney [holding answer 23 November 2009]: The Pump allocated budget for this spending round has been set at Biomass Room 7— 3 Heater £959 million (2008-11).The actual spend for Year 1 Solar PV 1,892 24 70 (2008-09) was £395 million, while the planned spend for Wood Fuelled 326 5 66 financial years 2009-10 and 2010-11 is £369 million and Boiler £195 million respectively. Budgets for future years will be considered as part of the next spending round. Low Carbon Buildings Programme—phase two Technology England Scotland Wales Warm Front does not operate in the devolved administrations and thus all scheme expenditure will be Micro Wind 193 28 27 incurred in England. Small Scale 000 Hydro The Carbon Reductions reported for the scheme are Solar Thermal 527 35 64 based on figures calculated by the external energy analysis Ground Source 309 13 10 company, the Energy Audit Company, using property Heat Pump data collected by the Scheme Manager. Calculations for Air Source Heat 19 0 0 total carbon savings achieved under Warm Front are Pump calculated annually at the end of each year, as such, the Biomass 1— 1— 1— process does not yield projected estimates for incomplete Solar PV 1,432 63 80 or future years. The last period for which figures are Wood Fuelled 37 4 4 available is 2008-09 (the last complete scheme year) Boiler when the scheme reported an average reduction on 1 See boiler figure (b) Major Demonstration Programme (PV only) 1.233 tonnes per household assisted. I refer the hon. Technology England Scotland Wales Member to the answer given to the hon. Member for Stroud (Mr. Drew) on 12 November 2009, Official Solar PV 1,008 43 73 Report, column 677W,for further information on carbon savings under Warm Front. (c) Clear Skies (2003-05) Technology England Scotland Wales The scheme aims to assist over 205,000 households this year, with a current estimate of 90,000 in 2010-11. Micro Wind 206 — — This reduction in numbers is a result of £50 million of Small Scale 15 — — scheme funding being brought forward from the 2010-11 Hydro budget in order to assist vulnerable households sooner. Solar 5,799 — — Technologies It is not possible to make estimates for future years as Ground Source 473 — — budgets have not been set. Heat Pump Given the length of the scheme’s supply chain, it is Wood Fuelled 90 — — Boiler difficult to estimate the number of jobs that Warm Pellet Stoves 50 — — Front creates. At the 2008 pre-Budget report, the Government announced that £3 billion of capital investment 363W Written Answers26 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 364W would be brought forward from 2010-11 to 2009-10 to years. These figures have been placed in the House support a number of different industries and sectors Library in a spreadsheet that also includes the number through the economic downturn. This included a green of those aged (a) under and (b) over 60 years in each stimulus of £535 million, which included £100 million, (i) region and (ii) local authority area were (A) offered a in new funding for Warm Front and £50 million brought Warm Front grant and (B) required to make a contribution forward from 2010-11. The Prime Minister announced to the cost of Warm Front work in (a) the last five years that total public sector capital investment was expected and (b) in the last 12 months. to create or support 100,000 jobs across the country this However, the numbers of those not proceeding in the year. last 12 months cannot be consolidated until the end of 2009-10 Scheme Year. I will ensure that these figures are Andrew Stunell: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy placed in the House Library as soon as they are available. and Climate Change how many people aged (a) under and (b) over 60 years in each (i) region and (ii) local Warm Front Scheme: Tamworth authority area (A) were offered a Warm Front grant, (B) were required to pay a top-up to a Warm Front grant and (C) declined a Warm Front grant in each of Mr. Jenkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what the average grant awarded (1) the last 12 months and (2) the last five years. [300733] under the Warm Front scheme was in Tamworth Mr. Kidney: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I constituency in each of the last three years. [301613] gave on 2 April 2009, Official report, column 1365W the number of applicants (a) under and (b) over 60 years Mr. Kidney: The table details the average amount of age in each (i) region and (ii) local authority area spent in homes receiving assistance from the Warm who (A) were offered a Warm Front grant and (B) Front Scheme in the Tamworth constituency in each of required to make a contribution to the cost of works the last three years. since 2005 were placed in the House Library in April 2009. At this time, eaga did not record the number of Tamworth £ applicants who did not proceed (c). 2007-08 1,035.24 However, eaga has now undertaken work to consolidate 2008-09 1,583.50 the number of applicants who did not proceed according 2009-10 (to 31 October 2009) 2,517.91 to (i) region and (ii) local authority area for the last five

15MC Ministerial Corrections26 NOVEMBER 2009 Ministerial Corrections 16MC Ministerial Correction Letter of correction from Mr. John Healey: An error has been identified in the written answer given to the hon. Member for Peterborough (Mr. Jackson) Thursday 26 November 2009 on 8 July 2009. The figure cited for the number of home information packs produced during the period 1 July 2008 to 30 June 2009 was incorrect and should have read 956,000 rather than the published figure of 1.1 million. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT I have notified the MP of the error. The correct answer should have been as follows: Energy Performance Certificates and Home John Healey: Information about the number of energy Information Packs performance certificates (EPCs) lodged in England and Wales in both the domestic and non-domestic sectors is Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State available on the EPC register website at: for Communities and Local Government what estimate www.epcregister.com he has made of the number of (a) energy performance There is no central register for the number of home certificates and (b) home information packs that were information packs however we estimate that 956,000 purchased in the last 12 months. [284264] home information packs have been produced during the [Official Report, 8 July 2009, Vol. 495, c. 902W.] period 1 July 2008 to 30 June 2009.

ORAL ANSWERS

Thursday 26 November 2009

Col. No. Col. No. CHURCH COMMISSIONERS ...... 663 LEADER OF THE HOUSE—continued Grant Applications ...... 663 Modernisation Committee ...... 672 Christian Minorities Abroad...... 661 Parliamentary Questions...... 675 Parish Priests ...... 659 Programming (Bills)...... 677 Stipendiary Priests ...... 660 Select Committee Reports...... 678

ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE ...... 662 PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMISSION ...... 664 Spending Limits (General Elections)...... 662 National Audit Office...... 664 Vote Counting (General Elections) ...... 664 SOLICITOR-GENERAL...... 665 Assisted Suicide ...... 665 HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION...... 679 Bribery Bill ...... 666 Energy Efficiency (House of Commons)...... 679 Crown Prosecution Service...... 671 Microphones (Chamber)...... 677 Domestic Violence ...... 670 Pro Bono Work ...... 669 LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 672 Prosecution Policy (Burglaries) ...... 669 Expenses and Allowances...... 675 Transnational Bribery ...... 668 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Thursday 26 November 2009

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 85WS HOME DEPARTMENT—continued UK Composite Strategy...... 85WS Justice and Home Affairs Pre-Council Statement .. 97WS Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing ...... 99WS COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 86WS Police Authorities (Grant Allocations)...... 91WS Finance Settlement (England) 2010-11...... 87WS Rural Economy and Affordable Housing ...... 86WS PRIME MINISTER ...... 100WS Financial Support for Members of the House of CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 88WS Lords (SSRB Report)...... 100WS Education, Youth and Culture Council...... 88WS TRANSPORT ...... 100WS DEFENCE...... 89WS Franchised Rail Services ...... 100WS Duke of Connaught Unit...... 89WS TREASURY ...... 86WS Walker Review (Bank Governance)...... 86WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS...... 90WS WALES...... 101WS Climate Change Report...... 90WS Future Funding...... 101WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 91WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 101WS Identity and Passport Service (Framework Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Agreement) ...... 97WS Affairs Council ...... 101WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Thursday 26 November 2009

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 294W CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES...... 314W Broadband ...... 294W Children: Advertising...... 314W Copyright: Internet ...... 294W Children: Protection...... 314W Departmental Pay ...... 295W Climate Change ...... 316W Students: Loans ...... 296W Departmental Disclosure of Information...... 316W Telephone Services...... 299W Departmental Manpower...... 316W Personal Social and Health Education ...... 317W Schools: Asbestos...... 317W Schools: Mental Health Services ...... 317W CABINET OFFICE...... 318W Science: Public Consultation...... 318W Civil Servants: Compensation...... 318W Special Educational Needs...... 318W Civil Service No-Fault Compensation Scheme...... 319W Departmental Disclosure of Information...... 319W Departmental Rail Travel...... 319W CHURCH COMMISSIONERS ...... 252W Government Departments: Corporate Hospitality. 319W Church of England: Finance...... 253W Government Departments: Land Registry ...... 320W Farm Land Management ...... 252W Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT . 307W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE— Building Regulations...... 307W continued Community Development: Finance ...... 308W Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 300W Cornwall Council...... 308W Belarus: Capital Punishment...... 300W Departmental Pay ...... 308W Bletchley Park: Medals ...... 301W Departmental Work Sharing...... 309W British Indian Ocean Territory: Environment Empty Property ...... 309W Protection ...... 301W Homelessness...... 310W Colombia: EU External Trade ...... 302W Housing: Low Incomes ...... 310W Colombia: Trade Unions...... 303W Housing: Overcrowding ...... 311W Departmental Internet ...... 303W Housing: Owner Occupation...... 311W Departmental Pay ...... 303W Local Authorities: Place Names ...... 312W Departmental Working Hours ...... 304W Local Authorities: Powers ...... 312W Diplomatic Service...... 304W National Clearing House Scheme...... 307W Government Hospitality ...... 305W Non-Domestic Rates...... 312W Middle East ...... 305W Non-domestic Rates: Banks...... 313W Middle East: Armed Conflict...... 305W Non-Domestic Rates: Empty Property...... 313W Middle East: Peace Negotiations...... 305W Regional Government: South West ...... 314W Serbia: International War Crimes Tribunal ...... 306W Vatican...... 306W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 272W Yemen: Politics and Government ...... 306W Arts Council of England...... 272W Coastal Areas: Finance ...... 272W HEALTH...... 343W Departmental Conferences...... 273W Ambulance Services: Lancashire...... 343W Departmental Meetings ...... 273W Bone Marrow Disorders: Donors...... 343W Departmental Statistics...... 273W Breast Cancer...... 343W Gaming Machines...... 273W Cancer ...... 345W Horserace Totalisator Board ...... 275W Cancer: Health Services ...... 347W Sport England: Finance ...... 275W Cholesterol...... 347W Chronic Fatigue Syndrome ...... 348W DEFENCE...... 287W Departmental Food...... 348W Afghanistan and Iraq: Peacekeeping Operations... 287W Departmental Internet ...... 350W Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 287W Departmental Pay ...... 350W Air Force...... 288W Departmental Recruitment ...... 351W Air Force: Training ...... 288W Departmental Taxis ...... 351W Armed Forces: Allergies...... 288W Diabetes ...... 351W Armed Forces: Housing ...... 290W Drugs: Rehabilitation...... 352W Defence Equipment ...... 290W Genetically Modified Organisms: Maize...... 353W Departmental Disclosure of Information...... 291W Health: Children ...... 353W Departmental Food...... 291W Health: Learning Disability...... 354W Departmental Land ...... 291W Learning Disability: Administration of Justice ...... 354W Departmental Recruitment ...... 291W Liver Diseases: Transplant Surgery ...... 354W Departmental Recycling...... 292W Lung Cancer ...... 354W Devonport Dockyard...... 292W Manchester Mental Health and Social Care NHS Ex-servicemen: Radiation Exposure...... 293W Trust ...... 356W Iraq: Politics and Government ...... 293W Mental Health Services: Finance...... 356W Kentigern House...... 293W Mental Health: Unemployed...... 356W Royal Fleet Auxiliary ...... 294W Musculoskeletal Disorders: Voluntary Organisations...... 357W ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE ...... 254W NHS: Pay...... 357W Preferential Voting: Referendum ...... 254W Surgery...... 357W Swine Flu: Babies...... 358W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE...... 359W Transplant Surgery...... 358W Coal ...... 359W Departmental Buildings...... 359W HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 277W Energy: Conservation...... 359W Animal Experiments ...... 277W Liquefied Natural Gas ...... 359W Ian Tomlinson...... 277W Renewable Energy...... 361W Identity Cards ...... 278W Warm Front Scheme ...... 362W Identity Cards: Greater Manchester...... 279W Warm Front Scheme: Tamworth...... 364W Motorcycles ...... 279W Opinion Polls ...... 279W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Police Custody ...... 280W AFFAIRS...... 254W Common Land...... 254W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 247W Departmental Cost Effectiveness ...... 256W Afghanistan: Health Services...... 247W Departmental Food...... 256W Afghanistan: Overseas Aid...... 247W Members: Correspondence ...... 257W Afghanistan: Roads...... 248W Origin Marking: Israel ...... 257W Afghanistan: Schools ...... 248W Departmental Disclosure of Information...... 249W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE .... 300W Departmental Meetings ...... 249W Afghanistan ...... 300W Departmental Rail Travel...... 249W Afghanistan: Corruption ...... 300W Departmental Recruitment ...... 249W Col. No. Col. No. INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT—continued SOLICITOR-GENERAL...... 257W Departmental Recycling...... 250W Bribery Bill ...... 257W Departmental Training ...... 250W Eddie Gilfoyle ...... 257W Departmental Working Hours ...... 250W Euthanasia: Prosecutions ...... 258W Remittances ...... 251W UNESCO: Prizes ...... 251W TRANSPORT ...... 259W World Food Programme: Somalia...... 252W A3: Hindhead ...... 259W Aircraft: Air Conditioning ...... 259W JUSTICE...... 320W Automatic Number Plate Recognition ...... 260W Christmas...... 320W Aviation ...... 261W C-NOMIS Database Project ...... 320W Aviation: Fuels...... 261W Community Justice Centres: Finance ...... 321W Bus Services: Concessions ...... 261W Community Orders: Young Offenders...... 321W Cheadle Hulme Station: Finance ...... 262W Debt Management ...... 321W Climate Change ...... 263W Departmental Pay ...... 323W Cycling: Accidents ...... 263W Departmental Taxis ...... 323W Disability Aids ...... 263W Domestic Violence ...... 324W Disability Aids: Accidents...... 264W Fixed Penalties: Fines ...... 329W Invalid Vehicles: Accidents...... 264W Magistrates’ Courts: Welsh Language...... 331W London Airports...... 264W Mentally Ill: Health Services...... 331W Motor Vehicles...... 265W National Offender Management Service: Motor Vehicles: Exhaust Emissions ...... 266W Consultants...... 332W Motor Vehicles: Fuel Oil...... 267W National Probation Trust Programme: Motorways: Road Signs and Markings ...... 267W Expenditure ...... 332W Pedestrian Crossings ...... 268W Offenders: Mentally ill ...... 333W Railway Stations: Finance...... 268W Office for Criminal Justice Reform: Finance ...... 334W Railways: Accidents ...... 268W Prison Sentences ...... 335W Road Signs and Markings...... 269W Prisoners Transfers...... 339W Roads: Stonehenge...... 269W Prisoners Transfers...... 339W Rolling Stock ...... 269W Prisons: Drugs ...... 340W Shipping: Pollution ...... 270W Probation: Expenditure...... 341W Shipping: Safety...... 270W Sentencing: Young Offenders ...... 342W Stockport Station: Finance ...... 271W LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 258W Members: Correspondence ...... 258W TREASURY ...... 283W Parliamentary Questions: Written Answers...... 258W Child Tax Credit...... 283W Westminster Hall Sittings...... 258W Departmental Official Cars...... 283W Departmental Recruitment ...... 284W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 282W Departmental Telephone Services ...... 284W Climate Change ...... 282W Gurkhas: Pensions ...... 284W Departmental Pay ...... 282W Housing: Construction...... 285W Private Finance Initiative ...... 285W OLYMPICS ...... 271W Private Rented Housing ...... 285W Olympic Games 2012: Contracts...... 271W Taxation: Low Incomes...... 286W

SCOTLAND...... 280W WALES...... 282W Christmas...... 280W Departmental Pay ...... 282W Departmental Cost Effectiveness ...... 280W Departmental Theft ...... 283W Departmental Disclosure of Information...... 281W Departmental Working Hours ...... 283W Departmental Mobile Phones ...... 281W Departmental Pay ...... 281W Departmental Scientists ...... 281W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 271W Departmental Taxis ...... 281W Poverty: Children ...... 271W MINISTERIAL CORRECTION

Thursday 26 November 2009

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CONTENTS

Thursday 26 November 2009

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 659] [see index inside back page] Church Commissioners Speaker’s Electoral Commission Committee Public Accounts Commission Solicitor-General Leader of the House House of Commons Commission

Business of the House [Col. 681] Statement—(Ms Harman)

Debate on the Address (Sixth Day) [Col. 703] Amendment—(Mr. George Osborne)—on a Division, negatived Amendment—(Mr. Burstow)—on a Division, negatived Main Question—(Frank Dobson)—agreed to

Petitions [Col. 797]

Select Committees (Election) [Col. 799] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 85WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 247W] [see index inside back page]

Ministerial Correction [Col. 15MC]