T Y N W A L D C O U R T O F F I C I A L R E P O R T

R E C O R T Y S O I K O I L Q U A I Y L T I N V A A L

P R O C E E D I N G S

D A A L T Y N

HANSARD

Douglas, Tuesday, 20th July 2021

All published Official Reports can be found on the website:

www.tynwald.org.im/business/hansard

Supplementary material provided subsequent to a sitting is also published to the website as a Hansard Appendix. Reports, maps and other documents referred to in the course of debates may be consulted on application to the Tynwald Library or the Clerk of Tynwald’s Office.

Volume 138, No. 27

ISSN 1742-2256

Published by the Office of the Clerk of Tynwald, Legislative Buildings, Finch Road, Douglas, , IM1 3PW. © High Court of Tynwald, 2021 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Present:

The (Hon. L D Skelly)

In the Council: The Lord Bishop of Sodor and Man (The Rt Rev. P A Eagles), The Attorney General (Mr J L M Quinn QC), Miss T M August-Hanson, Mr P Greenhill, Mr R W Henderson, Mrs K A Lord-Brennan, Mrs M M Maska, Mr R J Mercer, Mrs J P Poole-Wilson and Mrs K Sharpe with Mr J D C King, Deputy Clerk of Tynwald.

In the Keys: The Speaker (Hon. J P Watterson) (); The Chief Minister (Hon. R H Quayle CBE) (); Mr J R Moorhouse and Hon. G D Cregeen (Arbory, Castletown and Malew); Hon. A L Cannan and Hon. T S Baker (Ayre and Michael); Mr C C Thomas and Mrs C A Corlett (); Mrs C L Barber and Mr C R Robertshaw (); Hon. D J Ashford MBE and Mr G R Peake (); Mrs C S B Christian and Mr S P Quine (); Mr M J Perkins and Mrs D H P Caine (); Hon. R K Harmer and Hon. G G Boot (Glenfaba and Peel); Mr W C Shimmins (Middle); Mr R E Callister and Ms J M Edge (); Hon. A J Allinson and Mr L L Hooper (Ramsey); with Mr R I S Phillips, Clerk of Tynwald.

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Business transacted

Procedural; Leave of absence granted ...... 2665 Order of the Day ...... 2666 1. Election of the President of Tynwald in accordance with the Constitution Act 1990 – Mr Skelly elected ...... 2666 The Court adjourned at 10.50 a.m. and resumed its sitting at 10.55 a.m...... 2670 Statement by the President ...... 2670 Papers laid before the Court...... 2670 Bills for signature ...... 2676 Questions of Urgent Public Importance ...... 2676 UQ1. Testing and isolation changes – Advice received from chief medical officer and EAG ...... 2676 UQ2. Isolation and local authority elections – Post-deadline provision for absent voting 2684 Questions for Oral Answer ...... 2689 1. Internal Government policies – Number with public consultation ...... 2689 Question 2 to be answered in writing ...... 2692 3. Chief Minister’s visit to Hospice – Formal complaints about reporting ...... 2692 4. Businesses affected by track and trace policy – Financial support planned...... 2695 5. Recently approved debt issue – Environmental, social and corporate governance standards compliance ...... 2699 6. Repositioning and replacing of planters at St Mark’s – Employment of private consultants ...... 2700 7. Automatic Number Plate Recognition to identify offences – Ensuring enforcement action ...... 2702 8. Douglas Promenade Scheme – Bus shelters ...... 2703 9. Communication masts and infrastructure – Securing strategic national need ...... 2704 10. Grievance, capability, whistleblowing, bullying and harassment in IOMG – Instances in last five years by Department, Board and Office ...... 2705 11. Legal aid report – When to be published ...... 2711 12. Accommodation strategy – When to be published ...... 2713 13. Glencrutchery School swimming pool – When to be reopened ...... 2715 14. Planning system – Weight given to the natural environment ...... 2717 The Court adjourned at 1.04 p.m. and resumed its sitting at 2.30 p.m...... 2720 15. Protected and registered trees on public land – Felling or uprooting approved ...... 2720 16. Ballavarvane elms planning approval – Agreement reached; petition of doleance .... 2724 17. DHS v Tinwell – Lessons learnt; addressing cultural issues raised ...... 2727

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18. Pharmacy Needs Assessment – Plans to conduct ...... 2729 19. COVID-19 vaccine rollout – Availability; including 12-17-year-olds; future plans...... 2731 20. Private sniffer dogs – Use by Constabulary...... 2733 21. Sniffer and associated dog support – DHA capacity ...... 2735 22. E10 petrol – Introducing as standard ...... 2735 23. Community hub attendance – Services and associated costs per hub...... 2737 24. Community hub services trials – Western Wellbeing Centre; consideration of Peel Post Office ...... 2738 25. Accessing UK Contracts for Difference regime – Applicable legislation; extension to Crown Dependencies ...... 2742 26. Programme for Government – Progress since 2016 General Election ...... 2744 27. Next Lieutenant Governor – Procedure and criteria used for nomination ...... 2746 28. Newly elected commissioners and councillors – Training provision by DoI and others...... 2748 Suspension of Standing Orders to take remaining Oral Questions – Motion lost ...... 2749 Questions for Written Answer ...... 2750 2. Government and ministerial code cases – Number considered ...... 2750 29. IOM registered vehicles entering the EU – Sticker displayed from September 2021 .. 2750 30. Making roads one way – Procedure ...... 2751 31. Planning decisions while Keys dissolved – Those expected to be made ...... 2751 32. Financial viability under Regulation of Care Regulations 2013 – Monitoring and oversight by DHSC ...... 2752 33. NHS vaccine travel certificate app – Progress and available alternatives ...... 2752 34. DHSC Chief Executive Officer – Plan to advertise for a permanent role ...... 2753 35. Non-disclosure agreements – Benefits to Island ...... 2753 36. Closing the border – When medical advice first received ...... 2754 37. Reports commissioned by and promised to Tynwald – Those outstanding since October 2016 ...... 2754 38. Horse trams – Tramway installation; soft landscaping cost; when operating ...... 2755 39. Carraghan and Injebreck Hill footpaths – Progress in restoring public access ...... 2755 40. Republic of Ireland regular air connectivity – Steps to ensure ...... 2755 41. Residential care provision for the West – Progress ...... 2756 42. Advice on borders from Dr Ranson – When given to Chief Minister and CoMin ...... 2756 43. Advice on borders from Dr Ranson – Receipt and response by Chief Minister ...... 2757 44. Vicarage Close in Ballabeg – Plans to construct path behind ...... 2757 45. Arbory Parish Hall – Replacing red line with traditional crossing point ...... 2758 46. Government’s central communications division – Numbers employed; money spent externally ...... 2758 47. Median earnings after tax – Growth since 2016 General Election ...... 2759

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48. Mobile Library service – Support offered by CoMin ...... 2759 49. CoMin policy and priorities – Government Code section 1.19 central planning assumptions ...... 2760 50. Quarterly economic reports since March 2020 – When to be published ...... 2760 51. Planning decisions – Those expected to be made before General Election ...... 2761 52. Powers of Chief Minister/Minister of Cabinet Office – Delegation; exercising during dissolution ...... 2762 53. Libraries, public records and archives – Policy and responsibility for delivery ...... 2762 54. Government overtime since 2016 – Amount spent per Department ...... 2763 55. Government salaries since 2016 – Cost details per Department ...... 2764 56. Government finances – Structural financial deficit reduction since 2016; sustainability ...... 2765 57. Local authority rates in 2016 and 2021 – Rateable value of property and amount raised ...... 2766 58. Local authority rate and waste charge – Average paid by household and area in 2016 and 2021 ...... 2767 59. Town and village regeneration schemes – Funding committed since 2019 ...... 2768 60. Minimum and living wage – Estimated numbers earning both or between ...... 2769 61. Economically active population and ITIP-paying businesses – Growth since 2016 ..... 2769 62. Ultrafast broadband – Premises passed by/connected; cause of differences ...... 2770 63. Planning enforcement actions – Awareness raising, compliance promotion and publishing notices ...... 2771 64. DEFA inspectorate roles in 2011, 2016 and 2021 – Numbers by inspectorate ...... 2772 65. Cancer screening – Numbers screened and cancers detected in last 10 years ...... 2774 66. Cataract operations at Noble’s – Average per session in last six months; improvements identified ...... 2777 67. GP contract – Non-financial provisions ...... 2777 68. Corrin Home and alternative residential care facilities – Cost difference of subsidy per room ...... 2778 69. Corrin Home residents – Relocation locations ...... 2779 70. Urgent referral prioritisation – Advice to GPs; communicating with patients ...... 2779 71. Police and ambulance station in Malew – Plans for tree replanting ...... 2780 72. Review of regulation of legal services – Progress appointing independent Chair ...... 2780 73. St Mark’s planters – Brief to private consultants ...... 2781 74. Malew Street and Arbory Street – Falls in the last five years ...... 2782 75. Automatic Number Plate Recognition – Vehicles stopped in 2021 ...... 2782 76. Confederation of Passenger Transport Code steering group – Establishment, members and terms of reference ...... 2783 77. Silverburn Drive – New drainage...... 2783 78. Publicly owned school sites – Spending in past five years by area ...... 2783

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79. Path behind Vicarage Close in Ballabeg – Cost; planning permission; reason for ...... 2786 80. Electricity interconnectors with neighbouring countries – Estimated cost ...... 2786 81. Combined Cycle Gas Turbines at Pulrose – Running on blended hydrogen and natural gas ...... 2787 82. National gas pipelines – Expected life of and future planning ...... 2788 83. Water and sewerage rate rises 2016-17 and 2021-22 – Total property rateable value ...... 2788 84. Standard metered supply of water and septic tank emptying – Fees and charges collected 2016-17 and 2020-21 ...... 2789 85. Voluntary adoption of water meters – Consideration given ...... 2789 86. OFT northern dial-a-ride service investigation – Progress and date report will be published ...... 2789 87. Primary legislation not yet brought into force – When to be brought into force ...... 2790 88. Secondary legislation – Outstanding for next administration; prioritising ...... 2792 89. Community hubs – Opening one in or near Port Erin and Port St Mary...... 2792 90. Reported increase in rental property sales for owner occupation – Evidence for and engagement to establish trends ...... 2793 Main Order Paper (continued) ...... 2794 4. Climate Change Plan Consultation – Statement by the Minister for Policy and Reform 2794 Procedural – Point of order by Mr Callister regarding Question 15 ...... 2801 5. Department for Education, Sport and Culture Strategy – Statement by the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture ...... 2801 6. Concessionary Travel Scheme – Statement by the Minister for Infrastructure ...... 2813 7. Auditor General selection process – Statement by Mr Speaker ...... 2815 8. Supplementary Capital Authority – DoI expenditure – Debate commenced ...... 2817 The Court adjourned at 5.23 p.m. and resumed its sitting at 5.55 p.m...... 2818 Announcement of Royal Assent – Church Property Measure (Isle of Man) Act 2021; Human Tissue and Organ Donation Act 2021; International Co-operation (Protection from Liability) Act 2021; Justice Reform Act 2021; Sexual Offences and Obscene Publications Act 2021; Sky Lantern and Balloons (Prohibition) Act 2021; and Statute Law Revision Act 2021 ...... 2818 Leave of absence granted ...... 2819 8. Supplementary Capital Authority – Debate concluded – DoI expenditure approved .... 2819 9. Chief Minister’s Community and Public Engagement Report on Community Hubs – Report received and recommendations approved ...... 2824 10. Police Act 1993 – Chief Constable’s Annual Report 2020-2021 – Debate commenced ...... 2844 Suspension of Standing Orders to complete Item 10 – Motion lost ...... 2848 Procedural ...... 2848 The Court adjourned at 8.02 p.m...... 2848

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Tynwald

The Court met at 10.30 a.m.

[MR DEPUTY PRESIDENT in the Chair]

The Deputy Clerk: Hon. Members, please rise for the Deputy President of Tynwald.

The Deputy President (Mr Speaker): Moghrey mie, good morning, Hon. Members.

5 Members: Moghrey mie, Mr President.

The Deputy President: I call on the Lord Bishop to lead us in prayer.

PRAYERS The Lord Bishop

The Lord Bishop: As we look to our first Item on the Order Paper, I pray: Guide, Lord, all who are called to elect a President for this Hon. Court, that they may have clear 10 discernment and the desire for the common good; and give to those who seek election integrity of word and action that they may uphold justice, truth and peace, to the honour of Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen.

Members: Amen.

Procedural; Leave of absence granted

15 The Deputy President: Please be seated. Hon. Members, following the email traffic yesterday, you will notice that we are sitting in a hybrid session today. I have therefore ruled that those people attending virtually for this sitting are considered in attendance in accordance with Standing Orders. Secondly, we all know the weather forecast for the next few days. It will get hot in here, so 20 notwithstanding Standing Order 3.1, please do avail yourselves of the opportunity of breaks when needed, and remove jackets and ties if necessary. I can also advise that Ms Edge has been granted leave this evening from 7.15 p.m. and on Thursday afternoon.

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Order of the Day

1. Election of the President of Tynwald in accordance with the Constitution Act 1990 – Mr Skelly elected

The Deputy President: We now turn to Item 1, election of President. This election is governed 25 by the Constitution Act 1990 and also by Standing Order 5.3. The election will be carried out electronically. As a change to the previous procedure, the vote will be public, as is now the case for Committee decisions. In this election, the Constitution Act provides three categories who are eligible to be elected as President of Tynwald: firstly, a Member of the Keys; secondly, an elected Member of the 30 Council; and, finally, the immediately retired President, which Mr Rodan has assured me is not relevant today. (Laughter) I remind Hon. Members of the procedure. Candidates are nominated. Once a candidate has been nominated, a seconder for that nomination will be sought before further nominations are taken. When all those whom the Court wishes to nominate and second have been nominated and 35 seconded, the Clerk of Tynwald will read out the list of candidates in the order which they appear on the electronic ballot paper. Even if there is only one candidate, there will be a ballot as the successful candidate must have a majority of votes of Members present and voting. If that is clear, Hon. Members, I now call for nominations. Mrs Barber. 40 Mrs Barber: Thank you, Mr Deputy President. I rise to propose Mr Speaker, , for the presidency of Tynwald. Mr Speaker has set out an ambitious vision for the future role of President, including increasing youth and wider public engagement, a focus on a progressive parliamentary setting and a 45 commitment to increasing diversity and accessibility within this Hon. Court. Mr Speaker’s experience as presiding officer in both Keys and Tynwald, as well as virtual Tynwald, has been one of taking leadership in difficult times. Thanks to virtual Tynwald, our parliament continued when many others were paralysed. Mr Speaker prioritised a hybrid solution for sittings that has ensured that no person is disenfranchised due to health or 50 vulnerability, and worked only yesterday to achieve a hybrid solution to Tynwald for the same reasons. Mr Speaker’s parliamentary experience is significant. As a Member of this Court for 15 years, he has been on over 20 parliamentary committees, including a number focused directly on parliamentary structures. He has also held roles on the Standing Orders Committee, Tynwald 55 Management Committee and the executive committee of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association. I have been with Mr Speaker on a Commonwealth conference and can attest to the high regard he is held in around the many different regions of the CPA, presiding over debates with representation from across the Commonwealth, and competently co-ordinating speakers and 60 translators on both sides of sometimes challenging discussions – much like this Hon. Court, but without the translations. Mr Deputy President, in Mr Speaker, you will find an active and enthusiastic advocate for the work of this Court, who I commend to you for this role. I beg to move. 65 The Deputy President: Thank you, Mrs Barber. Now, I have an indication on the Teams chat that Mrs Poole-Wilson intends to second. As such it is not appropriate for me to take part in presiding over the election.

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We will therefore need to have an Acting President to take the Chair, and I seek nominations. 70 Mr Robertshaw.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Robertshaw): Thank you, Mr Deputy President. I beg to move that in accordance with the Constitution Act 1990, section 5(4), the Attorney General be appointed Acting President of Tynwald. 75 The Deputy President: Thank you. Mr Cregeen.

Mr Cregeen: Thank you, Mr Deputy President. 80 I beg to second.

The Deputy President: Now, if there are no other nominations, I declare Mr Attorney to be Acting President, and there will be a short suspension of the sitting while he takes the Chair. Mr Attorney.

The Attorney General took the Chair as Acting President.

85 The Acting President (The Attorney General): Thank you, Hon. Members. I will continue to call for candidates to be nominated. We have had a nomination from Mrs Barber in respect of Mr Speaker. Is there a seconder? (Interjection by the Deputy Clerk) Mrs Poole-Wilson, do you wish to second the nomination of Mr Speaker?

90 Mrs Poole-Wilson: Yes, Mr Acting President. I wish to second the nomination of Mr Speaker. I have worked with Mr Speaker on the Public Accounts Committee for the past few years and can attest to his strong work ethic and passion for the institution of Tynwald. Of course, the role of President is not just within this Court but within Legislative Council, as well as in the wider Manx community. Having been in the Speaker’s Chair for the last five years 95 and co-ordinated work between the Branches, I am sure he will be able to hit the ground running as presiding officer in Legislative Council and act as an effective spokesperson for that Branch, as well as for Tynwald. As a member of the CPD Working Group, I have seen Mr Speaker’s passion for educating and supporting Members in their work. I believe his commitment to continuing and developing this 100 work to enable Members to expand their skills and knowledge means the public will ultimately be better served. Mr Speaker’s love of Manx history and political history will also, I believe, serve him well as he represents Tynwald in the wider community. Within this place, his thorough knowledge of Standing Orders and of important matters such as parliamentary privilege and conflicts of interest 105 are a vital ingredient for a successful presiding officer. This is an ancient and honourable institution, and Mr Speaker has demonstrated his ability and set out his vision as to how to take it forward. I therefore recommend his nomination to Hon. Members. Thank you, Mr Acting President. 110 The Acting President: Thank you, Mrs Poole-Wilson. Are there any further nominations? Mrs Caine.

Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr Acting President. 115 I would like to propose the Hon. Member for Rushen, Mr Skelly, for the position of President of Tynwald.

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It has been my privilege to know and work with him for more than 25 years. We were first introduced when Mr Skelly operated a successful travel and tourism business in California and represented Isle of Man tourism in the course of his business and leisure time. Indeed, he was 120 proud of his Manx roots and heritage and as a past President of the North American Manx Association, which he continues to support, with the Manx Youth cultural awards earlier this month. Originally from Ramsey, Mr Skelly settled in the south of the Island when he returned to these shores to raise his family. I had been involved in the organisation of Tynwald Fair enhancements, 125 previously under the co-ordination of the late Capt. Andrew Douglas, and upon Capt. Douglas’s election to the Keys, Mr Skelly was persuaded to take on the co-ordination of Tynwald Fair, which he did for several years with energy and aplomb, alongside running a successful business. Mr Skelly was then elected Member of the House of Keys for Rushen at his first attempt in 2011. He served in the Department for Economic Development in most delegations, gaining a wide 130 understanding of business, plus reflecting his interests in the arts. He was appointed Chair of the Arts Council for the Year of Culture in 2014. He was briefly in the Infrastructure Department, becoming Chair of the Planning Committee, before a three-month spell as DoI Minister in 2014. Following a reshuffle, Mr Skelly was appointed DED Minister for the last two years of the previous administration. 135 Following his re-election in 2016, Mr Skelly was reappointed Minister for Economic Development, which he successfully restructured and relaunched as the Department for Enterprise. Having had the privilege of serving in the Department under Minister Skelly since 2016, I have been impressed with the democratic way Department meetings are conducted, and I have benefited from his wise counsel on a number of occasions. 140 Mr Skelly has, I believe, the skills and experience to become our next presiding officer. He is someone who has always embraced the principles of public life. His style is understated, but firmly confident, in being a modern Manxman with traditional values. He has demonstrated to me in political and professional life, selflessness, objectivity, accountability, openness, honesty, leadership and integrity. He would come to the parliamentary side of the role with fresh eyes. I 145 feel he would be a new broom and I am happy to propose he become the fifth President of Tynwald. Thank you, Mr Acting President.

The Acting President: Thank you, Mrs Caine. 150 Mr Henderson.

Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Lhiass-eaghtyrane. I wish to second the nomination of Mr Skelly. Lhiass-eaghtyrane, Hon. Members, what I am looking for here is someone who can provide a strong presence, demonstrate leadership skills, 155 the ability to use a mature, pragmatic and balanced approach, underpinned by a diversity of appropriate background experience. I am also looking for someone who is an excellent and exceptional communicator, patient, pragmatic, but at the same time able, without fear or favour, to exert the authority as our presiding officer. I want the successful candidate to be able to lead our Tynwald, both within the Court and 160 nationally and internationally at all levels of parliamentary diplomacy. They must be able to do this at many different levels and to the high standards required by the role of Eaghtyrane, President of our Tynwald. They must be able to operate and have a good working knowledge of our procedures and Standing Orders, apply them fairly, proportionately and, again, without fear or favour. I want someone who can carry the respect of our Court, our Government and our Island. 165 I have known Mr Skelly for many years and have watched him acquit himself with all the attributes I have just outlined in his back-bench, Government and parliamentary roles, which are many and diverse, to exemplary and high standards as Minister, CPA delegate and ambassador for the Island, including to the British-Irish Council, to the level this position requires. ______2668 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

To this end, I have no hesitation in seconding the Hon. Member, Mr Laurence Skelly, as he has 170 indeed all the qualities, maturity, experience and requirements for the position of President of Tynwald. Gura mie eu.

The Acting President: Thank you, Mr Henderson. 175 Are there any other nominations? Hon. Members, I am satisfied that all those who the Court wishes to nominate and second have been so nominated and seconded. I will ask the Clerk of Tynwald to now read out the list of candidates in the order in which they appear on the ballot paper.

180 The Clerk: Mr Acting President, the candidates appear in alphabetical order: Mr Laurence Skelly; Mr Juan Watterson.

The Acting President: Hon. Members should now vote. (Interjection by the Deputy Clerk) Yes, to those Hon. Members who are sitting remotely, could you please type the name you are 185 voting for in the chat box.

A ballot took place and electronic voting resulted as follows:

Vote Results Mr Skelly 20 Mr Watterson 12 Number of spoilt papers 1

Voting for Mr Laurence Skelly Voting for Mr Juan Watterson Dr Allinson Mr Ashford Mr Baker Miss August-Hanson Mr Boot Mrs Barber Mrs Caine Mr Cregeen Mr Callister Mr Deputy Speaker Mr Cannan Ms Edge Mrs Christian Mrs Lord-Brennan Mrs Corlett Mrs Maska Mr Greenhill Mr Mercer Mr Harmer Mrs Poole-Wilson Mr Henderson Mrs Sharpe Mr Hooper Mr Watterson Mr Peake Mr Perkins Mr Quayle Mr Quine Mr Shimmins Mr Skelly The Lord Bishop Mr Thomas

The Acting President: Thank you, Hon. Members. The ballot reveals that the number of votes for Mr Skelly is 20; the number of votes for Mr Watterson is 12. Accordingly I declare that Mr Laurence Skelly has been elected President of Tynwald to hold office until the day of the first 190 ordinary sitting of Tynwald in July 2021 … 2026. (Laughter) I beg your pardon, Hon. Members. My Clerk has briefed me incorrectly! So sorry. Hon Members, that concludes this Item of business on our Order Paper. The Court will now suspend for five minutes to allow our new President to take his seat. Thank you, Hon. Members.

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The Court adjourned at 10.50 a.m. and resumed its sitting at 10.55 a.m.

Mr Skelly took the Chair as President.

[MR PRESIDENT in the Chair]

195 The Deputy Clerk: Hon. Members, please rise for the President of Tynwald.

The President: Please be seated.

Statement by the President

The President: Hon. Members, I am deeply humbled and deeply honoured to sit in this seat: a seat that is occupied by so few and a seat being occupied by Manx political giants. My promise to 200 you is to serve and respect the role of President, and also serve you, Hon. Members of this Court; but most of all to respect the integrity of Tynwald, for Tynwald is the oldest parliament in the world. It is also our most valuable asset as an island nation. I thank you for the trust that you put in me to sit in this seat, in this position. I would like to say particular thanks to my proposer, Mrs Caine and Mr Henderson for their very kind words. It is 205 greatly appreciated. I would also like to thank Mr Watterson for having the courage of his conviction. An excellent candidate of great calibre, and he has determined that we would have an election, which is healthy for democracy. (Several Members: Hear, hear.) I would also like to thank the Clerk and also the Chief Minister for allowing this sitting today 210 being in a hybrid fashion. It is something new and different yet again, and I think that is a big statement with regard to what Tynwald’s standing is all about. (A Member: Hear, hear.) Co-operation and innovation works well, and I hope that theme will run through these next few days. It is quite clear we have a mighty, mammoth paper in front of us, and we will need that co-operation to get through it, because I intend to respect every Item on that paper. 215 So with that, Hon. Members, we will begin the proceedings.

Papers laid before the Court

The President: Hon. Members, there is a Supplementary Order Paper with Items to be laid. Is the Court content for the papers to be laid along with the papers on the main Order Paper? (Members: Agreed.) I call on the Clerk to lay papers. 220 The Clerk: Ta mee cur roish y Whaiyl ny pabyryn enmyssit ayns ayrn jees jeh’n Chlaare Obbyr; as ta mee cur roish y Whaiyl ny pabyryn enmyssit ayns ayrn jees jeh’n Claare Obbyr Arbyllagh. I lay before the Court the papers listed at Item 2 of the Order Paper; and I lay before the Court the papers listed at Item 2 of the Supplementary Order Paper.

Main Order Paper

Financial Provisions and Currency Act 2011 Green Living Grant Scheme 2021 [SD No 2021/0132] [MEMO] ______2670 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Coronavirus Business Support (Amendment) (No.4) Scheme [SD No 2021/0206] [MEMO] Woodlands Grant Scheme 2021 [SD No 2021/0131] [MEMO]

Registration of Electors Act 2020 Registration of Electors Regulations 2021 [SD No 2021/0218] [MEMO]

Elections (Keys and Local Authorities) Act 2020 Elections (Keys) (Amendment) Regulations 2021 [SD No 2021/0233] [MEMO]

Airports and Civil Aviation Act 1987 Civil Aviation (Rules of the Air) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0184] [MEMO] Civil Aviation (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Amendment) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0185] [MEMO]

Government Departments Act 1987 Transfer of Road Transport Licensing Functions Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0202] [MEMO]

Food Act 1996 Food Hygiene Ratings (No. 2) Regulations 2021 [SD No 2021/0193] [MEMO]

Social Services Act 2011 Adult Social Care Services (Charges) (Amendment) Regulations 2021 [SD No 2021/0181] [MEMO]

Medicines Act 2003 Medicines (Pharmacy and General Sale – Exemption) (Amendment) Regulations 2021 [SD No 2021/0201] [MEMO]

Proceeds of Crime Act 2008 Proceeds of Crime (External Requests and Orders) (Amendment) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0200] [MEMO]

Highways Act 1986 Highway Closure (Part of Footway, Oakhill Close, Douglas) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0116] [MEMO] Highway Diversion (Public Right of Way No.224, Pulrose, Douglas) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0115] [MEMO]

Local Government Act 1985 Southern Sheltered Housing Joint Board (Amendment) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0167] [MEMO]

Customs and Excise Act 1993 Customs and Excise (Application and Miscellaneous Amendments) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0172] [MEMO] Export Control (Application and Miscellaneous Amendments) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0180] [MEMO]

European Union and Trade Act 2019 Customs (Non-Fiscal Provisions) Regulations 2021 [SD No 2021/0171] [MEMO]

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Social Security Act 2000 Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 (Application) (Amendment) (No.7) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0186] [MEMO] Jobseekers Act 1995 (Application (Amendment) (No.3) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0187] [MEMO] Social Security Legislation (Benefits) (Application) (Amendment) (No.3) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0188] [MEMO] Social Security Administration Act 1992 (Application) (Amendment) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0191] [MEMO]

Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 Income Support (General) (Isle of Man) (Amendment) (No.3) Regulations 2021 [SD No 2021/0189] [MEMO] Employed Person’s Allowance General (Amendment) (No.3) Regulations 2021 [SD No 2021/0190] [MEMO]

Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 & Jobseekers Act 1995 Social Security (Persons subject to Immigration Control not excluded from Benefits) Regulations 2021 [SD No 2021/0192] [MEMO]

Value Added Tax Act 1996 Value Added Tax (Miscellaneous Amendments) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0197] [MEMO]

GDPR and LED Implementing Regulations 2018 GDPR and LED Implementing (Additional Exemptions) Regulations 2021 [SD No 2021/0227] [MEMO]

Reports

Chief Constable’s Annual Report 2020-2021 [GD No 2021/0026]

Environment and Infrastructure Policy Review Committee Third Report for the Session 2020-21: The Meat Plant [PP No 2021/0150]

Social Affairs Policy Review Committee Third Report for the Session 2020-21: COVID-19 in schools [PP No 2021/0152]

Cabinet Office Report for Un-Occupied Urban Sites Register: East November 2020 [NN No 2021/0012] (laid by the Clerk of Tynwald)

Licences

Consolidated Licence for Application of Code Powers to BlueWave Communications Ltd Licence Ltd [GD No 2021/0070] [MEMO]

The remaining items are not the subject of motions or debates on the Order Paper

Items subject to negative resolution

Plant Health Act 1983 Plant Health (Dutch Elm Disease) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0148] [MEMO]

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Customs and Excise Management Act 1986 Customs and Excise Management Act 1986 (Amendment) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0203] [MEMO] Customs (Declaration Modification) Regulations 2021 [SD No 2021/0214] [MEMO]

Taxation (Cross-border Trade ) Act 2018 Taxation (Miscellaneous Provisions, Transitional Arrangements and Amendments) Regulations 2021 [SD No 2021/0209] Taxation (Cross-border Trade) (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2021 [SD No 2021/0213] [MEMO]

Immigration Act 1971 Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules [SD No 2021/0216] [MEMO] Immigration (Control of Entry through Republic of Ireland) (Amendment) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0226] [MEMO]

Bank Holidays Act 1989 Bank Holidays (Amendment) (No. 2) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0217]

Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Act 2020 Immigration (European Economic Area) (Amendment) Regulations 2021 [SD No 2021/0228] [MEMO]

Documents subject to no procedure

Air Navigation (Isle of Man) Order 2015 Air Navigation (Restriction of Flying) (Tynwald Day) (No. 2) Regulations 2021 [SD No 2021/0231] [MEMO]

Financial Provisions and Currency Act 2011 Notice By Treasury – Covid 19 Salary Support Scheme Covid 19 Salary Support Scheme [SD 2020/0190] Excluded Sectors (Paragraph 3 As Amended By SD 2020/0305) [GC No 2021/0082]

Merchant Shipping Act 1985 Merchant Shipping (SOLAS VI – Carriage of Cargoes and Oil Fuels) Regulations 2021 [SD No 2021/0215] [MEMO]

Currency Act 1992 Currency (Prince Philip in Memoriam) Fifty Pence Collection Coin Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0229] Currency (Prince Philip in Memoriam) £2 Coin Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0230]

Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction and Care of Churches Measure 2018 Clergy Discipline (Amendment) Rules (Isle of Man) 2021 [SD No 2021/0234]

Church Legal Fees (Isle of Man) Order 2021 Church Fees Measure (Isle of Man) 2014 / Church Offices Measure (Isle of Man) 2011 [SD No 2021/0237]

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Appointed Day Orders

International Maritime Standards Act 2021 International Maritime Standards Act 2021 (Appointed Day) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0183] [MEMO]

Registration of Electors Act 2020 Registration of Electors Act (Appointed Day) Order 2021 [SD No 2021/0219] [MEMO]

Reports

Isle of Man Financial Intelligence Unit Strategic Objectives and Annual Plan 2021/2022 [GD No 2021/0032]

Report of the Police Complaints Commissioner for the year ended 31st March 2021 [GD No 2021/0041]

Policing Plan 2021-2022 [GD No 2021/0042]

Chief Minister Committee on Community and Public Engagement Volunteering Report March 2021 [GD No 2021/0044]

Chief Minister Committee on Community and Public Engagement Community Hubs Report July 2021 [GD No 2021/0046]

Council of Ministers’ Response to the Standing Committee of Tynwald on Public Accounts Third Report for the Session 2020-21: Audit Advisory Division [GD No 2021/0047]

Isle of Man Government Preservation of War Memorials Committee Annual Report [GD No 2021/0048]

Financial Provisions and Currency Act 2011 Annual Report to July 2021 [GD No 2021/0050]

Council of Ministers’ Response to the Tynwald Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Justice Committee – Second Report for the Session 2020-21 – Adverse Possession June 2021 [GD No 2021/0052]

Council of Ministers’ Response to the Tynwald Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Justice Committee – Third Report for the Session 2020-21 on the role of the Attorney General [GD No 2021/0053]

Report on the Accounts of Local Authorities, Burial Authorities, Elderly Persons’ Housing Committees and Joint Boards [GD No 2021/0049]

Department of Education, Sport and Culture Strategic Plan 2021-2026 [GD No 2021/0055]

Council of Ministers’ Response to the Select Committee of Tynwald on Poverty – First Report for the Session 2020-21 Income and Benefits [GD No 2021/0056]

Council of Ministers’ Response to the Social Affairs Policy Review Committee – Second Report for the Session 2020-21 Mental Health and Suicide follow up report [GD No 2021/0057]

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Isle of Man Steam Packet Group Limited Directors’ report and consolidated financial statements For the year ended 31 December 2019 [GD No 2021/0058]

Isle of Man Steam Packet Group Limited Directors’ report and consolidated financial statements For the year ended 31 December 2020 [GD No 2021/0059]

Detailed Government Accounts 2020-21 [GD No 2021/0060]

Health and Care Transformation Programme – Annual Report [GD No 2021/0061]

Council of Ministers’ Response to the First Report of the Environment and Infrastructure Policy Review Committee for the Session 2020-21: The Regulation of the Safety and Quality of Cow’s Milk [GD No 2021/0062]

National Housing Strategy – Interim Report [GD No 2021/0063]

Third Annual Report of the Equality Champion to the Social Policy and Children’s Sub-Committee [GD No 2021/0064]

Digital Strategy Review [GD No 2021/0065]

Proposed Election Observation Mission by the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association British Islands and Mediterranean Region [GD No 2021/0066]

Public Services Commission – Annual Report to the Chief Minister 2020-2021 [GD No 2021/0067]

Consultation on the outline and principles for the first statutory Climate Change Plan 2022-2027 [GD No 2021/0068]

Health Services Consultative Committee Annual Report 2020-2021 [GD No 2021/0069]

Tynwald Commissioner For Administration Report On Case TCA 1903 [TCA 1903]

Tynwald Commissioner for Administration Fourth Annual Report July 2021 [PP No 2021/0158]

Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Justice Committee Fourth Report for the Session 2020-21: End of Term [PP No 2021/0153]

Social Affairs Policy Review Committee Fourth Report for the Session 2020-21: End of term [PP No 2021/0154]

Supplementary Order Paper No. 1

Reports

Standing Orders Committee of Tynwald Second Report for the Session 2020-21: Petitions for Redress [PP No 2021/0159]

Standing Committee of Tynwald on Public Accounts: Annual Report Covering Activity during the Session 2020-21 [PP No 2021/0166]

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Bills for signature

225 The President: Again, Hon. Members, I have to announce that the following Bills have been returned from the Ministry of Justice and are ready for signature: Statute Law Revision Bill 2021; Sky Lanterns and Balloons (Prohibition) Bill 2021; Human Tissue and Organ Donation Bill 2021; International Co-operation (Protection from Liability) Bill 2021; Sexual Offences and Obscene Publications Bill 2019; and Justice Reform Bill 2020. 230 Hon. Members, I have to announce that the following Bills have been sent to the Ministry of Justice and are prepared for signature in anticipation of their approval. If they are not signed at this sitting, they will not be able to receive Royal Assent. They are: Administration of Justice and Other Amendments Bill; Adoption Bill; Climate Change Bill; Competition Bill; Enterprise (Aviation and Shipping) (Miscellaneous Amendments) Bill; Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) 235 (Amendment) Bill; Human Tissue and Organ Donation Bill; Landlord Registration (Private Housing) Bill; Liquor Licensing and Public Entertainments Bill; and Road Traffic Legislation (Amendment) Bill. With the consent of the Court, I shall circulate the Bills that are scheduled to receive Royal Assent for signing first, while we proceed with other business. Once that is done, further Bills will 240 be circulated as the sitting continues.

Questions of Urgent Public Importance

CHIEF MINISTER

UQ1. Testing and isolation changes – Advice received from chief medical officer and EAG

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Chief Minister:

What advice Council of Ministers has received from the (a) chief medical officer and (b) EAG about the latest decisions on testing and isolation?

The President: Hon. Members, the previous President has allowed two Urgent Questions to be asked, of which you have received advance notice by email. The first is in the name of Ms Edge, to ask the Chief Minister. I call on Ms Edge. 245 Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Chief Minister, what advice Council of Ministers has received from the chief medical officer and the Emergency Advisory Group about the latest decisions on testing and isolation? 250 Thank you.

The President: I call on the Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Thank you, Mr President, and may I take this opportunity of 255 congratulating you on your elevation to the President of Tynwald. A great honour that I am sure you will do a fantastic job in carrying out. Thank you.

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Mr President, over recent months, with the support of this Hon. Court, we have moved away from an elimination strategy to one of mitigation, where we need to ‘learn to live in a world with COVID-19’. The virus was always going to return, and potentially return in large numbers, and our 260 approach to managing it would therefore need to change. As with much with this pandemic, however, we would need to be flexible and ready to adjust depending on the way in which it returned and the scale it presented. Early last week, Council was very concerned with the volume of the general public that were being placed in precautionary isolation, with strong feedback from the business community and 265 some of our critical services that the impact this was already having was unsustainable. We knew cases would grow and we knew that, as a result, close contacts would grow at a significant scale. Having agreed that formal restrictions along the lines of a lockdown would be an absolute last resort, we were in danger of indirectly locking down our society and our economy and threatening our essential services, as the number of people in isolation at that time approached 800 and was 270 growing at a rate of around four contacts for every case. Inaction would lead to thousands of people being locked away as a precaution; and yet our information shows that close contacts, in the majority of situations, do not go on to develop the virus. We had already taken account of fully vaccinated adults who carried less risk, but we needed to consider alternative options for the general population, and our younger population in 275 particular. Council of Ministers asked the command structure in place to urgently consider options and the Clinical and Public Health Silver Group discussed a range of options, as did the Testing Strategy Group, given the current circumstances on Island. It was their recommendations that Council implemented, moving away from a mandatory precautionary isolation model, to one of advice and guidance supported by home testing. 280 I would like to take this opportunity to emphasise that in no way undermines the role of the Emergency Advisory Group and Council is hugely appreciative of the advice already received and the speed at which it has been provided. We will continue to seek their advice where time permits, especially for longer-term thinking, such as around our borders position. But there is also a continued and central role for the command structures in place that allows rapid decision-making 285 as we have used well over the last 16 months. Sometimes the pace at which we need to make change simply precludes a wide consultation. The Isle of Man does not have a chief medical officer, with the functions of such a role discharged in different ways across the clinical leadership roles on Island. The Clinical and Public Health Silver Group attempts to bring together a group of individuals to provide advice in support 290 of policy formulation. Consensus views are not always achieved and individual perspectives are always documented. Individual views from any clinician, officer or indeed politician, whilst valid as their opinion, can only be their individual opinion, and Council’s decisions are always based on a wide range of views, of perspectives, of expertise and knowledge. What I do know is that a wide range of individuals with Clinical and Public Health all fed into 295 the recommendation which ultimately came to Council and which was supported, on balance, against the risks of inaction that I have highlighted. Throughout the whole pandemic, as countries around the world have grappled to find their own path, often with different opinions from across the medical, public health and scientific communities, our small Island has also had to find its own path, with a small team of people working tirelessly to find the right answers for us. We will 300 continue to do our utmost best to navigate what is still clearly a very difficult and complex path ahead of us. We will continue, where we can, to put choice into the hands of all of our residents so that they can determine what is right for them as we learn to live in a world with COVID, and take a proportionate response to dealing with positive cases of contacts and of travellers to our shores. 305 Thank you, Mr President.

The President: I call upon the Hon. Member for Onchan, Mr Callister.

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Mr Callister: Thank you, Mr President. Can I also just add my congratulations on your 310 appointment this morning. I would also want to put on record my sincere thanks to everybody who is working at the 111 call centre at the moment for the tireless work that they have undertaken over the past week or so on behalf of the Manx community. In respect of the latest decisions around testing and self-isolation, can I ask the Chief Minister 315 why additional support and resources were not given to the staff at the 111 call centre in order to help answer the significant increase of enquiries over the past week or so? Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Chief Minister to reply. 320 The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I thank the Hon. Member for his question. I asked the same, just to see had we scaled back the support that we had given to the 111 team. The answer was no, but I think we have had 1,600 calls in just over the weekend, and only 3% of those turned out to have COVID, so the team was 325 literally swamped, Mr President. You cannot just torpedo or jettison people into that area. They have to be trained up. We had the full complement of people from when we had the initial outbreaks earlier on. It was just unfortunate that we had a large number at this time, and I can only apologise to all those people that had to wait for a significant time. But the team were doing an excellent job. They were just 330 overwhelmed by totally bigger numbers than expected. Thank you.

The President: Hon. Member for Middle, Mr Shimmins.

335 Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Chief Minister whether the Emergency Advisory Group has also provided advice on the wearing of face masks in busy, confined spaces such as shops and public transport; and whether the Chief Minister is considering mandating the wearing of masks as part of the mitigation strategy to reduce the COVID infection rates? 340 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. Yes, they have, and that is something the Council of Ministers has looked at. It has not accepted 345 the mandatory wearing of masks at this moment in time, but obviously it is something that we keep back in the armament. Thank you.

The President: Hon. Member for Onchan, Ms Edge. 350 Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Chief Minister: he talks in his statement about command structures and I wonder whether he would circulate the recommendation that was received by the Council of Ministers from, it seems, the Silver Group, not the Gold Group. So therefore, if the Silver Group 355 have put a recommendation into the Gold Group, I would like to see both recommendations. I would also like to ask the Chief Minister: did the Emergency Advisory Group ministerial lead provide any advice into the Council of Ministers. Thank you, Mr President.

360 The President: Chief Minister to reply. ______2678 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I am happy to share the advice, should I be obviously allowed. I will have to check that, but I have certainly given a commitment from myself that I am more than happy to share the information. Normally, the Silver Group feed up to the Gold Group who feed up to the Council of 365 Ministers. The second question regarding the Chair. Well, I think I have given that in an answer, this was a quick decision. So whilst the ministerial member of the advisory group was part of CoMin and had input, we were unable in the turnaround time to go wider for a decision. But we made all the decisions in the Council of Ministers based on advice we had received, as I have mentioned in my 370 earlier speech. Thank you. And I have also, Mr President, circulated a copy of my speech to all Hon. Members.

The President: Hon. Member for Onchan, Ms Edge, again.

375 Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. I just wonder when the Chief Minister, if he is allowed to circulate the information, if he could confirm that the clinical information from the Silver Group did reach the Gold Group and did reach CoMin. But the other question that I would like to ask with regard to the Emergency Advisory Group 380 is: clearly, there was time to meet with Hon. Tynwald Members, but I do not understand why there was no email out to the Emergency Advisory Group. This Hon. Court pushed for an Emergency Advisory Group for a reason, and that was to get input from professionals outside of Tynwald. Thank you, Mr President. 385 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. The Council of Ministers have engaged with the Emergency Advisory Group on a number of 390 occasions, Mr President, and will continue to do so. On this occasion, due to the pressing nature of the issue, Council asked for a discussion and recommendation within hours. Now, obviously, of course it is important that when we are making decisions we speak to as many people as possible, but in this instance we felt we needed to get on with it. Thank you. 395 The President: Hon. Member for South Douglas, Mr Quine.

Mr Quine: Thank you, Mr President. May I also add my congratulations on your election. Mr President, is the Chief Minister still of the opinion that the primary risk, and everything that 400 has gone before us during the pandemic, was that the risk was posed to the NHS and particularly to our hospitals? And, with that in mind, that this still must be the primary risk where mitigation is considered? Thank you, Mr President.

405 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. Yes, obviously, of course we need to look after the capacity of the NHS to ensure it can provide facilities. At this moment in time we have several hundred cases, but maybe one person in 410 hospital, who is not an intensive care. So I think we need to move forward, Hon. Members. Before vaccines came along, I was at the charge of ensuring we locked down, that we tested and traced, we did not allow people in, we bought time for our Island. And, as a result of that, we ______2679 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

had several months of freedom on our Island that adjacent isles and around the world did not have. However, now, everyone who is eligible for a vaccine has been offered it and 90% have 415 taken up that offer of a first vaccine; circa 70% have had their second vaccine; and, in a few weeks’ time, all the people who have had their first will have had their second. So we have maintained as much support and the offer of vaccines to our public, but we have to move forward. We are seeing in the UK at certain times more people dying from cancelled operations and lack of treatments, etc., such as cancer, than people dying of COVID; and 420 businesses failing. We are seeing mental health issues, increase in suicides. All this has to be factored in by this Hon. Court and the Council of Ministers and with the advice from our medics. It was our medics who advised us to make these changes. Agreed, not a majority, and not every … obviously, when we have our debates, we never have a majority, do we? Or it is very rare. So of course we are going to have split decisions, but in this instance the overall majority of 425 clinicians advised the Council of Ministers on the way forward. Thank you, Mr President.

The President: The Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper.

430 Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. In the Chief Minister’s Answer, he talked about the advice around close contacts being received. Would the Chief Minister accept that household close contacts provide a much higher level of risk than non-household close contacts? And can he confirm if that was part of the advice that was received? 435 Can he also confirm that the numbers he just gave around the people who have been offered a vaccination and have accepted it, there are around eight and a half thousand people who have been offered a vaccine but have not yet had their second dose? And there are also around 10,000 people on the Isle of Man who, for whatever reason, are not able to have a vaccine whether they are under the age of 16 or whether they are ineligible for other reasons. 440 I am just slightly concerned that none of this seems to have come out in the Answer that he had prepared and provided, and that also the advice from the clinicians may very well have been that there are different risk profiles for different groups of people. So why was the decision taken to treat everybody in exactly the same way rather than applying a more risk-based approach?

445 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I think the first point of the Hon. Member for Ramsey’s point was: was there an acceptance of the difference of risk from a close contact of someone maybe at work or out and about for a period 450 of time, compared to a close contact with someone living at home. Yes, there is a difference in the percentage. Obviously, there is an increase in the percentage of close contacts at home than at work, but it was felt that the percentage was relatively small; and, as a result of that, we went with the proposals and the recommendations given to ourselves. Yes, we have taken a look at, obviously, the fact that whilst 90% of the population – eligible 455 population, I would say, because there are several thousand people who have decided for one reason or the other not to; and there will be also a small number of people who cannot take the vaccine due to medical reasons. But we looked also at the young people and, at this moment in time, the advice from the UK is not to vaccinate our younger generation. That may well change in the coming weeks and if it changes then of course we will, subject to approval, roll that out. 460 But at this moment in time it was felt that the COVID-19, the impact on our younger generation, that we could make this change based on a risk assessment. And, as I say, this risk assessment was supported by our medics – the majority of our medics, I would say. Thank you.

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465 The President: Hon. Member for Onchan, Mr Callister.

Mr Callister: Thank you, Mr President. Can I possibly ask the Chief Minister what is the maximum number of tests that have been undertaken in any 24-hour period during this last month? And, can that capacity be increased 470 going into the future? Can I also ask the Chief Minister – and if he does not have the data I am happy for him to send it to correspondence – does he have any data on how many people have been double-vaccinated on the Isle of Man but still caught COVID? Thank you, Mr President. 475 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I do not have that information on both counts at hand. I think if memory serves me correctly 480 they can do 800 a day, but I would want to clarify that and give a Written Answer to all Hon. Members of this Court for both points that the Hon. Member raises. Though I do note that the Health Minister has risen to answer a question, and he may have that latest data with him. Thank you, Mr President.

485 The President: Hon. Member for Onchan, Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. The Chief Minister has just talked about a risk assessment, and I wonder if he could circulate that to Hon. Members. 490 Also, in response to another Hon. Member, he said there was not a majority but then followed it up pretty quick that there was an overall majority from the medical profession. What was it? Was it a majority, or wasn’t it? And can he circulate, particularly, the clinical information around the risk assessment. Thank you, Mr President. 495 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I am happy to confirm, and I apologise if there was any confusion. Clearly, there was not an 500 overall 100% support for the strategy from the clinicians, but there was a majority of support from the clinicians, and it was their proposal that the Council of Ministers acted on. And, as I think I said in my speech to Hon. Members, when we sit around the vast majority of times there is always one or two Members who do not agree with whatever is being proposed. So it is not to be unexpected. Thank you. 505 The President: Hon. Member of Council, Mr Mercer.

Mr Mercer: Thank you, Mr President. The Chief Minister in his earlier response suggested the UK has not approved vaccination for 510 Years 12 and above. Is he aware that the MHRA approved the use of the Pfizer vaccine for this age range on 4th June 2021? Thank you, Mr President.

The President: The Chief Minister to reply. 515 The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. ______2681 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

I am aware that approvals have been given, but the UK government at this moment in time has not agreed on a policy of moving forward. We receive our vaccines and indemnification from the UK government, of which I am gratefully appreciative, given the cost and the indemnification that 520 that entails. And therefore for us to go ahead of the UK when they have not set that chain in motion, I would put it to this Hon. Court that we would have lost the indemnification, because we are doing it on our own, and the risks to the taxpayer would be phenomenal. So we will wait for the UK to decide that they are going to do it and then when they are proposing to do it we will be able to go down that road. 525 The President: Hon. Member for North Douglas, Mr Ashford.

Mr Ashford: Thank you very much, Mr President; and as this is the first time on my feet, can I also congratulate you on your election as President of this Hon. Court, which I am sure you will 530 serve with distinction. Would the Chief Minister agree that when it comes to moving forward – and there is a nervousness out there amongst the public, and quite rightly so – that it is important that rather than raw case numbers we are focusing on hospitalisation? And would the Chief Minister agree with me that the vaccine roll-out that we have been doing has been exceptionally important in 535 that, and that that has actually changed the way that things are going forward. Just if I could assist the Chief Minister while I am on my feet, Mr President, can I say in answer to Mr Callister’s questions, the Hon. Member for Onchan, I think the maximum number that have been done in a day over the recent period is 802, but Manx Care is building up so that we can do capacity of 1,000 tests a day. And in terms of the 2 + 2 vaccinations, I do not believe we hold a full 540 set of data for this because people do not have to share their vaccination status, and I certainly know that some people who have tested positive have not done so, so we would not hold a full set of data. But sticking with the vaccination point, would the Chief Minister agree that while there are sections of the community that still need to be double vaccinated, would he also agree that we 545 have to go back to remembering what is important is those figures in the vulnerable category? And that in fact 93.5% of the population in the vulnerable category took up an offer of a vaccine, and of that 93.5% of the adult population that is vulnerable, 96.7% as of this morning are double- dosed and 94.6% of them are 2 + 2. Would the Chief Minister agree?

550 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I am delighted to hear the information on the percentage of, especially, our most vulnerable who have taken this up. I am sure my team in the office will be happy because they will not need 555 to circulate those figures. I am also delighted my 800 that I gave this Hon. Court earlier was not far off the mark, with 802. I think we have to take into account and appreciate that people are nervous, Mr President. I have said before, I am nervous about the changes. This is a step forward, but we have to take into account, as the Health Minister has said about the vaccine roll-out, the protection given to 560 our people against death or serious illness or hospitalisation has significantly reduced as a result of the vaccine. Therefore, based on that data and evidence that we have received and the high percentage of our public population who are now vaccinated, we feel in the Council of Ministers – and listening to the views of Hon. Members – that we can move forward now, albeit nervously; but move forward to learn to live with COVID rather than being a Brigadoon where we keep people 565 shut down in fear, businesses go to the wall, mental health and suicide goes through the roof, etc. and hospitalisation. Risks of people dying from other illnesses increase as a result of us having to keep wards open just in case we have a COVID situation.

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So it is a finely balanced area, Mr President. We feel we have got it right. I know people are nervous, but we are moving forward with the best of evidence that we can have. 570 Thank you.

The President: Hon. Member of Council, Miss August-Hanson.

Miss August-Hanson: Thank you, Mr President. 575 I wonder if the Chief Minister is aware that in the UK children over 12 who are at higher risk of getting ill if they catch COVID will be offered the jab now, as of yesterday; and that that decision is based on recommendations from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation? Thank you, Mr President.

580 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I am aware of that, and obviously I will be looking forward to a paper from our own team at Thursday’s Council of Ministers. 585 The President: Final supplementary, Hon. Member for Onchan, Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. I wonder if the Chief Minister would provide a breakdown of the number of clinical people that 590 were part of the overall – the words that he used were the ‘overall majority’. I wonder if he could provide a breakdown of the clinical numbers, the officers’ numbers and the politicians’ numbers. And before anybody comments about GDPR I am not asking for names; I am just asking for numbers. The Hon. Member for Douglas North has just commented about the vulnerable and that 96.7% 595 are vaccinated. It still does not stop people, and particularly as we have got our schoolchildren still going in, and the majority of cases are within our schoolchildren, it does not stop them bringing the disease home to family. I do know of people that are 2 + 2 that have got COVID at this present time. The Department know who has had a vaccine because otherwise they could not send them a letter to be able to travel. So why can that data not be made available? 600 Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. 605 I am more than happy to share whatever information the Council of Ministers has at its disposal, because I have already agreed to share all medical evidence with the Members of this Hon. Court. I think the Hon. Member is missing the point. Yes, there are cases. Yes, people are catching COVID, even though they have been vaccinated, whether it be once, twice or 2 + 2. We have never 610 said you are not going to catch COVID if you were vaccinated. What the evidence and data clearly shows, Mr President, is that the risk of dying I think is reduced by 98% if you are 2 + 2, and serious health intensive care by 96%. That is what we have to live with. So we are seeing an increase in numbers. I fully expect the numbers to increase substantially from the current numbers that we have. That is life. We have agreed as a Tynwald that we move 615 forward learning to live with it. Yes, we are nervous about it and it is a step, but we feel this is a step in the right direction as we learn for a community and a society to live with COVID. Thank you, Mr President.

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INFRASTRUCTURE

UQ2. Isolation and local authority elections – Post-deadline provision for absent voting

The Hon. Member from Douglas East (Mrs Barber) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

How those directed to isolate, since the deadline passed for registering for an absent vote and up to the date of the local authority election, can be enabled to vote; and what consideration was given to this prior to the rule changes?

The President: We now move on to Urgent Question 2 and I call upon Mrs Barber to ask her Question. 620 Mrs Barber: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister for Infrastructure how those directed to isolate, since the deadline passed for registering for an absent vote and up to the date of the local authority election, can be enabled to vote; and what consideration was given to this prior to the rule 625 changes? Thank you.

The President: I call upon the Minister for Infrastructure to reply.

630 The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): Thank you, Mr President, and may I add my congratulations too to yourself. Mr President, as Hon. Members will be aware, local authorities are going through their general election process. The majority of the seats have been filled uncontested. However, there are some seats which are to be determined by way of a vote. This will take place on Thursday 22nd July. The 635 deadline to apply for an absent vote is seven clear days before the local authority election day. For this set of elections that would therefore be Wednesday 14th July. This means that if a voter is not registered by this time then they cannot take advantage of the absent vote process, within the current legislation there are no other mechanisms to enable people to vote. This will be the last local authority general election held with the current legislation in place. A 640 new Act, the Elections (Keys and Local Authorities) Act 2020, has been enacted and is due to be applicable to local authority elections from 2022. This will make provision for alternative mechanisms, such as proxy voting to apply to local authority elections. Within the current situation, a range of options have been explored by officers of the Department, the Cabinet Office and the Attorney General’s Chambers. Regrettably, none of these 645 options were considered viable.

The President: I call upon Mrs Barber to ask a supplementary.

Mrs Barber: Thank you, Mr President. 650 I wonder if the Minister could outline what consideration has been given to a model similar to the UK emergency proxy vote, maybe for future elections, but where proxies are made available to people who cannot vote for a legitimate series of reasons up until 5 p.m. on polling day?

The President: Minister to reply. 655 The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. I think the Hon. Member makes a good point. However, the issue I think will be addressed as a result of the move to the new election framework, as outlined in the new Bill, so I am pretty ______2684 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

confident that the problem will have been resolved by then, but I will ask officers to consider the 660 specific point Mrs Barber has made there and to reflect on it.

The President: I call upon the Member for Douglas Central, Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. 665 The Minister obviously took this Question or was given this Question from the Chief Minister. Have the Cabinet Office Minister and the Attorney General considered relaxing the Public Health Act regulations to allow safe voting, in other words, safe travel to a polling station and voting outside with safe arrangements, following the sort of principles laid down for safe vaccination in healthcare facilities, which was introduced a couple of weeks ago? 670 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. Within the range of options that have been evaluated we have actually considered whether 675 the rules could be changed to allow people to vote despite having been required to self-isolate. That was not deemed feasible due to the public health risk to both other persons voting and the staff working on the elections. My understanding was that it could be addressed by bringing in the new legislation and bringing in the Appointed Day Order to deliver that, but that would also require new regulations 680 to be drafted and brought in before this Thursday, coupled with the need to train local authority returning officers, this was seen to be simply too challenging at this late stage.

The President: I call upon the Member for Douglas East, Mrs Barber.

685 Mrs Barber: Thank you. I wonder, just to expand on Mr Thomas’s suggestion, whether a socially distanced alternative polling station could be identified for people who find themselves in that position, in the same way that we do allow people who are positive to access the Grandstand for swabbing, under clear and isolated and managed conditions? I would be very grateful if urgent consideration could be 690 given to this because we do run a risk, certainly in Douglas East, of people being completely excluded from the democratic process. And on the margins that we see in Douglas East, with five votes winning or losing an election, this could fundamentally change the result and damage the democratic process. Thank you. 695 A Member: Hear, hear.

The President: Minister to reply.

700 The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. I think it is interesting that the Member for Douglas East has highlighted her own particular constituency because I do not think that this is a widespread issue, and indeed out of the 28 local authority elections only nine are being contested and 19 were uncontested. So actually the biggest challenge around these local elections has been getting people to stand. It is a very positive step 705 for that particular constituency in Douglas to have a competitive election and it is obviously disappointing that this issue has affected it. Now, in terms of the numbers, the numbers of people are relatively small that are currently affected by the need to isolate. I am informed by my hon. friend, the Minister for Health and Social Care, that within the IM1 and IM2 postcodes there are currently 337 people in total, including 710 children, that are affected by this restriction. That is across the whole of those postcodes. And ______2685 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

clearly, with the relatively modest turnout in local authority elections, the actual number of votes that are really going be impacted here it is going to be relatively modest. However, I accept the Hon. Member’s point that any restriction on people voting is unwelcome. I think it is very late in the day to start putting in place additional polling stations and ensuring 715 that the integrity of the voting process around that is going to be guaranteed, Mr President. Indeed, we have already had reports of polling and election counting staff being affected and their availability being reduced as part of that. Now, that is for the authorities and the returning officer to address. I am happy to take the suggestion forward, but I do think it is very late in the day to be able to 720 deliver something like that and certainly not on a widespread scale, and indeed I do not think the need is there on a widespread scale.

The President: I call upon the Member for Douglas Central, Mr Thomas.

725 Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. Does the Minister just want to confirm for me, for the avoidance of any doubt whatsoever, that he believes democracy is important in whatever form it is taking place and wherever it is taking place? So everybody should have a chance to vote as long as it can be done safely. Secondly, does the Minister agree with me that we do not necessarily need new polling 730 stations, we just need to identify stations that have reasonable systems in place to protect the safety of electoral staff and the people working and reasonable precautions being taken by the people on the way to those votes? And thirdly, does the Minister agree with me that it would be a good idea for any of those 300 plus people to actually write to the people who have issued them with directions to actually make 735 the request for safe arrangements for voting? And for all those in Douglas Central, even in the rest of Douglas, please do not hesitate to put me in copy to those requests, because this has been something that has been under discussion for five or six days now.

The President: Minister to reply. 740 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. Of course I agree with the Hon. Member for Douglas Central that democracy is very important, and it is regrettable that we are in this situation. I am sure none of us want to be in this place where somebody who may wish to vote is impeded from doing so. None of us want to be in a 745 situation of having to deal with COVID, Mr President. It is a reality that has to be dealt with and there are difficult decisions that the Council of Ministers and Tynwald have had to grapple with. I think there are some important points being made in this discussion, and I am happy to take them away and to look if we can do anything further to enhance the chance for people to vote, but of course we are in a framework where there is legislation and there are regulations in place. 750 We cannot simply just override those regulations around isolation etc. for one particular case. Clearly we do not have emergency powers in place that would allow us to override those things. Thank you.

The President: Hon. Member for Douglas East, Mrs Barber. 755 Mrs Barber: Thank you, Mr President. It is interesting that the Minister talks about the biggest issue being getting people to stand and yet we have finally got people to stand in Douglas East! We have encouraged democracy, we put the little visuals out on social media and now it is like, ‘Well done everyone; you cannot vote.’ 760 I feel that there is a bias in this against younger people, those who are not yet 2 + 2, (Several Members: Hear, hear.) those people who are more likely to be affected by this. This has not come as a bolt out of the blue, something totally unexpected. I am disappointed really that this has not ______2686 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

been considered to find a solution until we have got to the end, when we have even got candidates who are not going to be able to vote now because they are isolating, certainly again within Douglas 765 East, which is the area I am talking about because that is the area I represent. So I just would ask that the Minister does not approach this with an attitude that we cannot achieve something and rather really goes into this looking at how we can achieve something to make sure that people can have the opportunity to contribute to the democratic process. Thank you, Mr President. 770 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I have said that I will look at the very valid concerns and comments that have been made. 775 However, whilst it may be that Douglas East is the prime area that this applies to –

Mr Thomas: And Douglas Central.

The Minister: Okay, and Douglas Central as well. We have to be very careful here, because if 780 we start making up arrangements on the fly two days before an election, how can we justify just doing that in Douglas East and Douglas Central, why not some of the other areas that have had an election? This is a difficult area. If we are going to make any changes we have got to be able to deliver everything so that there is a voting process that has the maximum confidence around it, 785 Mr President. I do not know whether we are able to do anything further than we are already doing but, as I have already said, I am happy to take that away and to consider that with officers.

The President: Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine.

790 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. This is also an issue in the Lonan Ward of Garff where I know for certain that there are people with COVID positive status who will not be able to vote. And I just ask the Minister, in terms of finding a solution, whether, for instance, the absent vote date of requiring seven days before could be moved to the 22nd, even if they were late 795 counted votes and the vote adjusted following the count on the evening of the election, or indeed if the new Elections Act could be implemented so that we would not disenfranchise any voters? Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to reply. 800 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I clearly bow to the learned Attorney General’s advice on this one, but I think my understanding is that that would be changing primary legislation, which clearly is not going to be practical in the timescales that are involved. 805 Just for clarity for this Hon. Court, options that have been looked at were: changing the rules to allow people to vote despite having to self-isolate; bringing in proxy voting for these elections; bringing postal voting to allow those who cannot attend and have missed the current deadline for absent voting to vote; and postponing the elections. Those were the options, they were all considered and evaluated and for varying reasons for each of them they were not feasible, 810 Mr President. We are very late in the day. I understand the sentiment and I have said I will look at it.

The President: Hon. Member for Douglas Central, Mr Thomas.

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815 Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. Democracy is universal. This is an issue now in Douglas East, Douglas Central and Lonan, and probably in Douglas North and elsewhere. Does the Minister want to join with me in congratulating the notifications service for having changed the vaccination arrangements and apparently the swabbing arrangements in a couple of hours so that people could use those 820 facilities reasonably, and does the Minister want to agree with me that it is worth looking at those excellent people? This is not about secondary legislation, it is not about primary legislation, this is just about the terms of the direction notices to individuals, actually looking to see if individual arrangements can be made on a reasonable basis to enable individual households to reasonably go to the polling 825 stations and for staff to take reasonable precautions. Will the Minister agree with me that that should be looked at urgently?

The President: Minister to reply.

830 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I am very sympathetic to what the Hon. Member for Douglas has just said, and I would be happy to look at a proposal if he could summarise it, because it is going to take some time for Hansard to be available. Given the urgency of the issue, if the Member could send me an email with what he was proposing I will ask for it to be looked at, but clearly there are ramifications for 835 doing any of any of this and we have to understand and recognise the implications.

The President: Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper.

Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. 840 Is the Minister obviously aware that with low turnout that we tend to get in local authority elections anyway, a handful of votes really can make a difference to an election outcome? (Mrs Barber: Hear, hear.) And we have Members in this Hon. Court with a majority of six votes. It really does come down to a handful of individuals. Is the Minister anticipating any potential legal challenges as a result of people being denied 845 the ability to vote and candidates therefore being elected by a handful of votes when the outcome of the election could have been entirely different if these voters were able to exercise their democratic rights?

The President: Minister to reply. 850 The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. I cannot argue with the comment the Hon. Member for Ramsey has made, albeit in his own constituency there were not even enough candidates to fill the number of seats that are available, which was a real shame. 855 I am not going to speculate, Mr President, on legal challenges and such like. I think the biggest danger has been the lack of interest in local authority elections. It is disappointing and it is frustrating that we are in this situation. I have said several times I will look at this and see if there is anything further we can we can do. I will evaluate Mr Thomas’s proposal when I receive it and we will see if there is anything feasible that can practically be delivered, Mr President. 860 The President: Final supplementary, Mrs Barber.

Mrs Barber: Thank you, Mr President. The Minister mentioned earlier that there was a challenge around some of the staff being 865 available to support the elections, and obviously I think any change might need additional staff. Can he outline how they would have coped if there had been 28 contested elections, which ______2688 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

obviously was possible? But also can he confirm that he will be able to get staff, and that will not be the thing that stops this happening? Because I think it would be absolutely awful if we were to say that people were denied that democratic right to vote because we could not get enough 870 people to make that happen. Thank you.

The President: Minister to reply.

875 The Minister: Mr President, there is no point talking about hypotheticals. We have not got 28 elections, we have got nine. Running the elections is not the responsibility of my Department. It is not me as Minister that it is running these. These are being run by the returning officer and the local authorities.

Questions for Oral Answer

CHIEF MINISTER

1. Internal Government policies – Number with public consultation

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Chief Minister:

How many internal Government policies have gone out to public consultation during his administration?

The President: Hon. Members, we will now move on to our ordinary Question Paper and we 880 move to Question 1, which is in the hands of the Hon. Member for Onchan, Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Chief Minister how many internal Government policies have gone out to public consultation during this administration? 885 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Thank you, Mr President, and I thank the Hon. Member for her Question. 890 There has been one internal policy, that on whistleblowing, put out to public consultation during this administration. The public consultation on the Whistleblowing Policy and Procedure is currently underway. Whilst there may have been only one public consultation, that does not indicate a lack of engagement. There is frequent engagement with stakeholders and interested parties such as partnership forums, trade unions and the Public Services Commission, and that 895 will take place when drafting an internal policy. Recent examples of where stakeholders have been engaged and review and development of policies and procedures are: fairness at work, capability, grievance, disciplinarian and fast-track disciplinary. Mr President, Government is committed to carrying out effective consultation with the 900 residents and stakeholders to inform decisions, not just on internal policies but public policy, legislation and Government services. Thank you.

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The President: I call upon the Member for Douglas Central, Mr Thomas, please.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. 905 So has the Chief Minister just said then that it was a mistake to launch this public consultation; it should have been an engagement with the unions and with staff and people affected? Secondly, does the Chief Minister want to agree with me that this could easily be perceived as prevarication in terms of introducing the changes that are needed and that Tynwald has voted for in terms of whistleblowing? 910 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: The Hon. Member is entitled to his views, which I respect him having the right to, but I do not agree with them. Thank you, Mr President. 915 The President: Hon. Member for Onchan, Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. I wonder if the Chief Minister – I will just recollect for him, that the Whistleblowing Committee 920 confirmed there was an urgent update required for the whistleblowing policy; can the Chief Minister advise when and why it was put out to consultation? It does feel like it has been a delaying tactic. Thank you, Mr President.

925 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I can assure Hon. Members that this is not a delaying tactic. The Office of Human Resources are consulting with the public and interested parties on an update to the whistleblowing policy 930 and procedures following the recommendations made in the report by the Tynwald Select Committee on Whistleblowing, which, as the Hon. Member has stated, was debated in Tynwald at its sitting in February 2021. I think this is a serious issue, whistleblowing, and ensuring that we get the feedback is important in this topic. Thank you. 935 The President: I call upon Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. So can the Chief Minister then just clarify why this particular internal policy of the Isle of Man 940 public service needs consultation, but no other one has ever needed public consultation? Wouldn’t engagement have just been sufficient? (A Member: Hear, hear.) Secondly, is the Chief Minister prepared to recommend that companies in the private sector, local authorities, put their internal policies out to consultation when they are controversial, apparently, for Government, like this one seems to be? 945 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I remind the Hon. Member that when he was part of Government for four years, he will have 950 been involved in deciding whether or not to go out for consultation on this issue, so we think we have got it right. It is an important issue. We have gone out for public consultation to get the feedback. If Hon. Members feel other areas should go out for public consultation or the public should be ignored on this issue, then that is for the next administration to decide. ______2690 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

The President: Hon. Member for Onchan, Ms Edge. 955 Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. I just wonder if the Chief Minister could say, therefore: obviously the decision has been reached that they will go out for public consultation, but there has been no information circulated with regard to the recommendations to update the guidance that was provided by the 960 Department for Enterprise, which goes in hand with this policy for every employer on the Island. I just do not understand why an internal policy has gone out in this format without including, for the public, the whole policy documents – and certainly DfE do do one and do guidance on whistleblowing for the external of Government. I just do not understand why it is just this part that has gone out. 965 Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. 970 I will get a full answer to the Hon. Member. I would point out that the Question asks me how many internal Government policies, it does not ask me for a full debate on the whistleblowing. If the Hon. Member had wanted that information, then the Hon. Member should have asked me a Question and I could have had the research done to give the Hon. Member the Answer she needed. 975 Thank you.

The President: Hon. Member for Douglas Central, Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: I thank you, Mr President. 980 So can the Chief Minister confirm then, given he is trying to spread misinformation about this, that no internal policy of Government went out for public consultation during the time I was Minister for Policy and Reform, so I never made that decision? Secondly, can the Chief Minister confirm that the principles of consultation and engagement that have my name at the front of them, one of the few documents that does, do not have this 985 policy encouraged? It is an internal policy. The law is not changing. This does not affect people outside the public service and Government, so why would the public be consulted about an internal policy document of unless it was a delaying tactic?

The President: Chief Minister to reply. 990 The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I think the Hon. Member has his view; we are not going to agree on this. I am happy to share as much information as I have and look at the formula that public were asked based on the report to Tynwald in February, but I think we will have to leave it and just have to beg to disagree. 995 The President: Final supplementary, Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. I am sure the Chief Minister, he may not have the answer, because the Policy and Reform 1000 Minister advised that he would be bringing the policy forward urgently. I am just looking on the Consultation Hub, and it says it does not close until 17th August. Does the Chief Minister agree that this significant delay to updating an internal policy when there are so many people concerned out there that will not whistleblow to the Isle of Man Government, because the policy is not fair? Does the Chief Minister agree that this should have been treated in a more urgent manner? 1005 Thank you, Mr President. ______2691 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Mr Thomas: Hear, hear.

The President: Chief Minister to reply.

1010 The Chief Minister: I thank the Hon. Member for her comment, and I think we can agree in one area, that it is an incredibly important piece of legislation to get right. Whistleblowing and the right to whistleblow without fear of reprisals is incredibly important. I think making sure that we have gone out for consultation for feedback on such an important issue is a good thing. Getting it right, not rushed. But I do accept that it is an incredibly important piece of legislation and I hope 1015 the next administration will move on it as quickly as possible, because by the time they are in place the feedback will be all ready for them.

Question 2 to be answered in writing

The President: I understand that Question 2 will be responded to in writing at a later date.

3. Chief Minister’s visit to Hospice – Formal complaints about reporting

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chief Minister:

Whether he has made any formal complaints about the reporting of his recent visit to Hospice for the opening of the Tevir Centre?

The President: This takes us on to Question number 3 and I call upon Mr Thomas to ask his Question. 1020 Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. I beg leave to ask the Chief Minister whether he has made any formal complaints about the reporting of his recent visit to Hospice for the opening of the Tevir Centre?

1025 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Thank you, Mr President. I have not made any formal complaint about the reporting of my visit to Hospice Isle of Man for the Tevir Wing opening. For the record, I do have to express my disappointment at the way 1030 Manx Radio reported the visit. I consider the reporting to have lacked balance and to have only selectively reported the facts. Manx Radio did not, for example, offer Hospice Isle of Man a chance to set the record straight about the arrangements that were put in place before publishing. As a result of this, as I feel, sensational misleading story, the real story of the fantastic job that Hospice on the Isle of Man carry out for the Isle of Man and the fantastic donation by the Tevir 1035 Group, in the millions, to mark a fantastic improvement at Hospice for the people of the Isle of Man, has been overshadowed by a non-story. Thank you.

The President: Mr Thomas. 1040 Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. ______2692 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Again, we have heard the Chief Minister’s disappointment. Does the Chief Minister agree with me that an opportunity was missed to highlight the difficulty in making safe arrangements around healthcare facilities? I fully support his actual visit to the Hospice, and I visit the Hospice regularly 1045 in terms of picking up my children from the excellent Rebecca House service. So does the Chief Minister agree with me that he did not take advantage of the opportunity to explain the subtlety about being safe in that sort of environment? Secondly, does the Chief Minister regret that the main story became him threatening, or at least being perceived to threaten the funding of the public service broadcaster, rather than the 1050 fact that the public service broadcaster – and media more generally – need to actually have balanced reporting under the Programme Code when it is on the radio, or just generally under good practices if it is in other sources of media?

The President: Chief Minister to reply. 1055 The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I think my comments were taken out of context. I did not threaten to take away the Manx Radio subsidy. What I pointed out was that Manx Radio received circa a million pounds to provide a quality news update to the people of this Island and Manx programmes. I felt that this is not 1060 happening at this moment in time and therefore you have to question how this goes forward. We want quality news. We want to be able to listen to our news and be confident that what we are being told is in fact the truth. That costs a lot of money to employ the people, to make sure the stories are correct, etc. In this instance it was not correct. Now, the visit to Hospice. I think the Hon. Member, if you travel off Island and you come back, 1065 you get a Direction Notice and it tells you what you can and cannot do, and it clearly states on the form – so it is not cast somewhere on the 59th page of our website where you have got to really look for it. It clearly states you cannot go to a healthcare setting unless you are ill, unless you have the permission of the healthcare setting to visit. I was not in a healthcare setting, first and foremost, Hospice went to great pains to point out to all of the guests that they were not in a 1070 healthcare clinical setting, and I also had proof that I had been invited. There was an email chain before I had even gone there, from Hospice giving permission. So it was a non-story. It is very important that we visit and support events like Hospice, because they do a fantastic service for the people of the Isle of Man. I was obviously worried and that is why I checked to make sure everything was above board. Sadly, I have had a full police investigation into my actions 1075 as a result of this story, where I was completely exonerated. So I was not threatening. What I did was that, after the incident, officers did request a meeting with Manx Radio to discuss this incident in a constructive way, but such a meeting, sadly, has not taken place.

The President: Hon. Member for Douglas Central, Mr Thomas. 1080 Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. Is it true, Chief Minister, that you boycotted Manx Radio on the National Day because of your disappointment with the way Manx Radio have treated you? I could not help but notice that you did not actually appear on Manx Radio on the National Day. 1085 Secondly, do you think that also engaging in these continuing assertions about the lack of balance in the coverage, at least entitles a fair treatment of these issues; and that you should make an official complaint if you have these views that you are alleging imbalanced treatment of your position, otherwise it might well be perceived that you are abusing your position with respect to the public service media? 1090 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. ______2693 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Yes, I did refuse to do an interview with … I have asked for a simple apology, that is all I have 1095 asked for. It was clearly misleading, it caused a police investigation into me. I was totally exonerated by the facts that Manx Radio had already been given before it happened. So if I feel unsafe giving interviews to an organisation because I have been misled and sensationalised, why should I continue unless I receive assurances that I will be treated fairly? And a small apology – that is all I asked for, was an apology; and to meet, instead of blowing this up, I asked for a meeting 1100 with the team to see how we could fix this in a constructive way. I know there are other Members of this Court who do not take part with the odd organisation where they feel they have been misrepresented. I am not the first, I am sure I will not be the last. But with me it is integrity. If we as politicians mess up, make mistakes, we should apologise and we do apologise. I know I have apologised on numerous occasions to the public when I feel I have 1105 let them down, or we have not maybe given them the service that they deserve. Press regularly ask me to apologise on certain issues. I asked for an apology, where I was clearly vindicated by our Police Force. Hours of their work were wasted too. I have not received an apology. Thank you. 1110 The President: Hon. Member for Middle, Mr Shimmins.

Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr President. Is the Chief Minister aware that his veiled threats towards Manx Radio have put chills down 1115 the spine of those here who value the free press in a small democracy, and that free press must be able to operate without fear or favour? Has he considered complaining about Manx Radio, if he obviously feels strongly about this, to the Communications Commission to try to resolve this? And will he confirm that he will now conduct interviews with the state broadcaster? Is he really refusing to talk to the state 1120 broadcaster? Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Chief Minister to reply.

1125 The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I think for clarification, I do answer questions for Manx Radio at all the press briefings. I do not boycott them for that. But when it is a personal request for my personal view I am not prepared to do that. I totally agree that the media should be free without threat, etc., to do their job. But they must do a job that is fair and if it has not been reported on, if it is sensationalised and factually 1130 incorrect, then that should not be just allowed to go unchallenged. Any one of you could be in my position where a sensational story that is misleading happens, and you get a police investigation; and I have to tell you that, had this been broadcast, a more serious complaint could have been made. But, sadly, a comment can be made about any Member of this Hon. Court online and the law is so weak, it is unbelievable. 1135 So I would hope the next administration will look into that just to give fairness to all concerned. At this moment in time that fairness is not there, and that is all I am asking for – fairness. Thank you.

The President: Hon. Member of Council, Mrs Lord-Brennan. Okay, thank you. 1140 Final supplementary, then, Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. Can the Chief Minister confirm that he is fully aware, and his advisers have told him about the section 4 of the Programme Code administered by the Communications and Utilities Regulatory 1145 Authority? And, at the very least, can the Minister confirm that he will write down very precisely ______2694 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

why he even thought it was necessary to involve the Police in this, and why he thinks that Manx Radio’s treatment was unfair? And, at the very least, pay the board and the management of Manx Radio the respect of actually detailing precisely what the issues are. Secondly, can the Chief Minister accept that his conduct in this whole matter has, to an extent, 1150 brought his Office into disrepute in some people’s minds, and that is a very serious situation for a position as Chief Minister of the Isle of Man? So does he at least regret that, if he is not prepared to apologise for it?

The President: Chief Minister to reply. 1155 The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I am absolutely flabbergasted by the Hon. Member. The Police were involved, not at my request, but because two members of the public listening or reading the online Manx Radio broadcast reported me to the Police. I did not have anything to 1160 do with asking the Police to investigate, it was as a direct result of the misleading and sensational article. So I really think the Hon. Member has misinterpreted the facts here, (A Member: Hear, hear.) so I hope he accepts that that is the case and he can check for himself. I was more than happy to try and do this in a gentlemanly way behind the scenes through the officers, instead of escalating it right to the top straight away. You do not do that, you try and 1165 work through the proper channels of communication. That is what we have tried to do. Sadly, no meeting to date has taken place, not through our fault, but that is the situation. Thank you.

TREASURY

4. Businesses affected by track and trace policy – Financial support planned

The Hon. Member for Douglas South (Mrs Christian) to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

What plans his Department has to provide financial support to businesses and the self- employed affected by the track and trace policy requiring self-isolation for 10 days; and if he will make a statement?

The President: Moving on to Question 4, I call upon the Hon. Member for Douglas South, 1170 Mrs Christian.

Mrs Christian: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister for Treasury what plans his Department has to provide financial support to businesses and the self-employed affected by the track and trace policy requiring self- 1175 isolation for 10 days; and if he will make a statement? Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Treasury Minister to reply.

1180 The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Thank you, Mr President. As Members will be aware, under the current regulations, only those individuals who have tested positive for COVID-19 are required to isolate. For those that do have to isolate, self- isolation under Public Health guidance or direction is treated as incapacity for work. A person can self-certify their incapacity for work for up to 21 days. Self-employed individuals who have paid ______2695 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

1185 National Insurance contributions at the relevant time are entitled to short-term Incapacity Benefit for the period they are unable to work. They may also be entitled to Income Support, depending on their circumstances and means. The Economic Recovery Group continues to monitor the current position and consider its policies.

1190 The President: Supplementary question, Mrs Christian.

Mrs Christian: Thank you, Mr President. The majority of customer-facing businesses are reporting to me up to 30% decline over the past two weeks: customer cancellations due to isolations or nervousness; staff off work because 1195 they are either isolating or waiting for PCR tests; restaurants and hairdressers are all reporting reduced bookings; taxi firms, doggy day care facilities, self-employed builders, painters, gardeners driving instructors – this is affecting all our front-facing service industry. I have been told this is the hardest and most stressful period of the whole pandemic. Businesses are being forced to close through no fault of their own. I raised this issue with you 1200 before, weeks ago, and I would like to know from the Minister why has salary support and MERA not been switched back on; why is the Department not looking at giving businesses some form of financial support if they have to close? Thank you, Mr President.

1205 The President: Treasury Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. The Hon. Member is stating the obvious in terms of, I think the whole Court recognises that the Island is facing a period of considerable disruption, and in that respect, we continue to review 1210 the situation. I do not think it is quite as easy as the Hon. Member suggests, just switching on and off support schemes and expecting them to be allocated in the sort of individual manner that she is inferring, because I have repeatedly stressed to this Court that we must deliver support on a fair and equitable basis, and if we deliver it for one business we must deliver it for all businesses in order 1215 to maintain that equanimity. The Hon. Member, as she will recall from my previous statements, will understand we have paid out millions of pounds in substantial support to our businesses across the Island, protecting thousands and thousands of jobs and families and businesses. I was heartened again to receive the unemployment figures this morning, which show yet again another fall in unemployment to 1220 467 people unemployed. The Hon. Member is telling me that the businesses have lost considerable trade yet our unemployment figures continue to fall; and actually I have yet to receive that sort of evidence that she has, a reporting of wholesale disruption to economic figures and turnovers provided by businesses. I do appreciate, Mr President, that this is a difficult time, that it is somewhat complex and it is 1225 somewhat chaotic. The Economic Recovery Group continues to monitor the situation and continues to receive information from businesses directly from the Department for Enterprise. If we believe that the situation, or are led to find out that the situation, is so disruptive so as to cause widespread economic negative impacts such as that businesses continue to lose 30%, 40%, 50% of their turnover then the Economic Recovery Group will have to seriously consider whether or 1230 not the support mechanisms are turned back on. But, Mr President, we also have a responsibility to the wider taxpayer to make sure that support is delivered in an equitable manner and is right to protect their jobs and their futures; and we have already done that, expending over £75 million in salary support alone, over £130 million in direct support, protecting thousands of jobs, thousands of businesses. 1235 I appreciate that it is a slightly difficult situation, that there is disruption in the marketplace. Nevertheless, Mr President, this is not an easily controllable situation as it stands. We will ______2696 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

continue to monitor the situation and we will continue to work with our colleagues in the Department for Enterprise and we will continue to liaise with businesses across the Island to understand the complete picture and not a knee-jerk reaction every time a business experiences 1240 a single, well-publicised problem. Indeed, I have been heartened to see last weekend, Mr President, the widespread numbers out across the Island enjoying the sunshine and partaking and using our hospitality venues in quite, I would suggest, significant numbers.

1245 The President: I call upon Loayreyder.

The Speaker: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Would the Treasury Minister accept that we are still going through a delicate phase of exiting the precautions we have? There is still a mismatch of cases and vaccinations, and that is leading 1250 to a lot of self-isolation that is enforced and that will be having an effect on businesses? I have emailed him this morning about a case of a childminder who is self-employed, one of their household who is still quite young has tested positive and that has then ruined the ability for that childminder to look after children. So would the Treasury Minister please ensure that we do not fail at the final hurdle on this and that we do still offer support where it is needed to businesses 1255 (Mrs Christian: Hear, hear.) that suffer where self-isolation is enforced?

The President: Treasury Minister to reply.

The Minister: I am loath to pick up on individual cases, but the Hon. Member highlights the 1260 very complexity that we are faced with, because this individual that he refers to has chosen not to go out to work; they do not have to self-isolate just because a member of their family is ill. (Interjection by Mr Speaker) I accept there may be some complications around there for that individual’s personal choices, but therefore in these particular circumstances we might, for example, be opening MERA to anybody because there are no subjective rules, that is just personal 1265 self-declaration. As the Hon. Member will be aware, we had over 2,000 people claiming MERA at its peak – 2,500 – and yet many of those people when we actually came to close it filtered straight back to work, and there were lots of indications that actually within those significant numbers there were a lot of people who potentially could work but chose to claim MERA. 1270 What I would reassure Hon. Members is I accept that – and I hope they will accept – this is not necessarily a straightforward lockdown situation where there is clear widespread across the broad general inability to work. We have got a significant number of cases, a growing number of cases. My view is the Island needs to prepare itself for the next couple of weeks, where it is clear that the case numbers may well grow, but the reassurances that have been given by the Chief Minister 1275 this morning, we have heard from the Health Minister’s contribution, the volume of numbers of people who have been vaccinated on this Island are significant; well over 75% of the population now has been double vaccinated – 88% of the population has received their first vaccination. We will get through this, Mr President, and in order to contribute to us getting through this we will continue to review the situation. 1280 But I would finally like to point out there is access to financial support via the welfare system for individuals who are having to self-isolate. There is access to financial support for individuals who may find themselves in financial trouble. Businesses do have access through Government- backed lending schemes to help support them in difficult times, disruption loan guarantee schemes, working loan guarantee schemes, the adaptation scheme is still there and available for 1285 businesses. So there is still support available for businesses who are finding themselves in trouble and we will continue to monitor the situation.

The President: I call upon the Hon. Member for Douglas South, Mrs Christian. ______2697 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Mrs Christian: Thank you, Mr President. 1290 Wow! ‘Out of touch’ comes to mind. I do not understand how the Treasury Department and the Economic Advisory Group are not speaking to businesses. How is it that I know this information and they do not? How is it that I have been told consecutively for the past four weeks by businesses that they are in trouble? Businesses cannot function properly. ‘Living with it’ seems to be a term bandied around by people that are not adversely affected, in my opinion – people who 1295 can work from home or people whose businesses do not suffer. This Government is turning its back on the businesses who support our economy. What will the Minister do himself when he cannot get a pint in his local pub because they are closed? This is the last hurdle. We need to get over it together. Action needs to happen now. Incapacity Benefit is not enough. How can we sit here, able to work from home, when our families across the Island 1300 are resorting to live off approximately £85 a week? That is not enough! Will the Minister commit to reviewing his Department’s position and come and inform the public of his decision in a briefing as soon as possible, since there are no further Tynwald sittings? Thank you, Mr President.

1305 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: I have to refute the Hon. Memberʼs allegations in the strongest possible terms. This Government, this Treasury Department, the Economic Recovery Group, the Department for Enterprise, has worked to support businesses, has bent over backwards on many occasions, has 1310 listened very carefully, has introduced new schemes, has opened schemes as appropriate. Twelve thousand people have benefited as a result of salary support. Businesses have been kept open. I am constantly informed by businesses how grateful they are, personally to me, (A Member: Hear, hear.) for the support that has been offered and the impact that it has meant for them. So the Hon. Memberʼs language this morning is really most unfortunate. 1315 I managed to find one question in there, I think, Mr President, in amongst the diatribe – well, two actually – but the most important one is the Economic Recovery Group is continuing to listen. I do understand that business owners are under pressure. I do understand that in some cases, business owners are struggling to get the staffing levels they need, and that is actually the big issue. (A Member: Hear, hear.) There are individual businesses who are having some 1320 cancellations, I accept that. But as I said, Mr President, we are dealing with an unprecedented situation. We continue to review it extremely carefully. The support schemes, we can turn those support schemes back on, but of course, in doing so, you know, I know, and everybody knows that we will pay out millions and millions and millions of pounds more, and we need to be clear and careful with taxpayers’ 1325 money to make sure that we are distributing it fairly, because I cannot see once those support schemes are on that it is going to be possible to actually get individual verifications, and we will just have to offer it across the board to businesses and millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money may be at threat of going into locations and areas where there actually is no justification for receipt of that. 1330 Thank you.

The President: Final supplementary, I call upon the Member for Douglas Central, Mrs Corlett.

Mrs Corlett: Thank you, Mr President. 1335 I am sure the Treasury Minister would agree that the self-employed, those on zero-hours contracts or those employees who do not get sick pay would suffer negative financial impact if testing positive and then being directed to isolate for 10 days. Is the Minister concerned that without adequate financial assistance, there could be a temptation to ignore a positive result from a lateral flow test (A Member: Hear, hear.) simply because a person is driven to work in order to

______2698 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

1340 provide for their families, and so putting others at risk of infection and isolation and further compounding the situation?

The President: Treasury Minister to reply,

1345 The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. I think there are currently 863 or so individuals, the last count I saw, currently in isolation. I expect there may well be others around who may well feel themselves are necessary to self- isolate. Mr President, I accept that there will be some disruption. Nevertheless, self-employed and 1350 employed individuals can claim. We are not denying people access to the welfare and benefits system and they can claim immediately, they are entitled to their Incapacity Benefit and if they are in financial trouble they are entitled to their Income Support. I accept this is not a perfect situation. There will be some individuals who may well find this a tough period for them to go through, as they would, were there any other sickness bug circulating 1355 around the Island. We are going to continue to review this situation. We are going to keep a very careful eye on it. Mr President, we are going to work with businesses and we are going to support the community (Mrs Christian: Good!) through this, and that is what the Economic Recovery Group are committed to doing and will continue to do throughout the summer.

5. Recently approved debt issue – Environmental, social and corporate governance standards compliance

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

Whether the recently approved debt issue complies with the standard environmental, social and corporate governance criteria used for debt issuance?

The President: Moving on to Question number 5, and I call upon Mr Thomas to ask his 1360 Question.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. I beg leave to ask the Minister for the Treasury whether the recently approved debt issue complies with the standard environmental, social and corporate governance criteria used for debt 1365 issuance?

The President: Treasury Minister to reply.

The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Mr President, I would like to thank the hon. 1370 gentleman for his Question. The Treasury is currently working with its advisers to prepare for the potential debt issue previously authorised by this Court. This work includes a large number of work streams, one of which is an assessment of the International Capital Market Association ESG Debt Principles. It is important that I stress this framework is not just about green, it includes spend to support other 1375 ESG categories. At this stage, no final decision has been made to issue the debt instrument against this set of principles, but I would summarise my view to this Hon. Court as: if we can do so, we should do so. The purposes of the debt issuance have already been outlined to this Court, namely, refinancing existing internal debt, paying for a new vessel and financing Government priorities. To 1380 issue a debt in line with the relevant sustainable financing framework we must ensure that over a ______2699 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

specified period we are able to show that an amount of money equal to the amount of debt raised has been spent for qualifying purposes, and that we are able to track and report on the impact of that spend. Work to identify areas of qualifying spend to create an ESG financing framework and to identify appropriate measures for its impact is currently under way at this time. 1385 Once we have completed this work, we will assess whether the debt can be issued against the relevant ICMA framework. If the decision is to proceed, then an external review will be commissioned to provide an assessment of our framework against the relevant ICMA principles to ensure that this meets the standard market practice for ESG debt efficiencies.

1390 The President: Supplementary, Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to thank the Treasury Minister for that comprehensive Answer and also taking me back 30 to 35 years to when I had the privilege to be a member of that excellent organisation, the 1395 International Capital Market Association, when it was called the AIBD, amongst other professional bodies. The supplementary question I have is: do I understand then in very simple terms that if, for instance, a green bond was needed for climate change-related infrastructure programmes or projects that could be possible because that might be compliant with the ICMA Guidelines on Best 1400 Practice?

The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: So, in short, it could be possible and I just wanted to tell the Court that we are 1405 currently assessing our options. The Sustainable Financing Framework being developed could potentially be used to issue debt under either the Green Bond Principles, the Social Bond Principles or the Sustainability Bond Guidelines and we are going to look at all those as a matter of urgency and then determine which would be the most appropriate way forward in this instance.

INFRASTRUCTURE

6. Repositioning and replacing of planters at St Mark’s – Employment of private consultants

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

Why the Department employed private consultants to advise on the reposition and replacement of planters in St Mark’s after senior officers from the Highways Division had consulted with residents, commissioners and MHKs during the preceding 12 months?

The President: Moving on to Question number 6, I call upon the Hon. Member for Arbory, 1410 Castletown and Malew, Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister for Infrastructure why the Department employed private consultants to advise on the reposition and replacement of planters in St Mark’s after senior 1415 officers from the Highways Division had consulted with residents, commissioners and MHKs during the preceding 12 months?

______2700 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

The President: Minister to reply.

1420 The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): Thank you, Mr President. Traffic calming has been achieved in St Mark’s for the past five years with the use of temporary planters. For many years the Department has wanted to regularise these traffic-calming features, although the Department was unable to gain a consensus from local MHKs and the Commissioners on the new design, so it has not been willing to submit a planning application to formalise the 1425 arrangements and improve the quality of the infrastructure. The Department wants to formalise the situation and to consider improvements to the entrance to the village from the north. The Highway Services Customer Service Manager has consulted with residents, commissioners and MHKs in relation to this work. As the Department has limited internal resources for delivery, external support is sometimes required in order to 1430 meet the demands for attention.

The President: Supplementary, Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President; and thank you, Minister, for the update. 1435 A DoI officer attended the public meeting in St Mark’s on 28th October 2020 and residents were given the opportunity to comment on the proposals later that month. When will they have access to the new plans? Thank you.

1440 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Mr President, I would hope that we could get an agreed scheme completed and implemented, subject to a successful consultation and associated approvals, during 2022.

1445 The President: Final supplementary, Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President, and thank you, Minister. The brief was for ‘new or innovative elements in terms of calming features and a layout of street furniture that will add character to the village’. In the brief there was no reference to a 1450 maximum cost. Is there one? Thank you.

The President: Minister to reply.

1455 The Minister: Mr President, I think that the Hon. Member has strayed into the subject of his Written Question number 73, which talks about the brief to the consultants. A document has been issued, which is a scoping document, and there is no cost associated with it. The consultant will come up with a fee proposal and at that point the Department will decide if it proceeds or not depending on cost and other priorities.

______2701 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

7. Automatic Number Plate Recognition to identify offences – Ensuring enforcement action

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

What changes have taken place to ensure appropriate enforcement action is taken against people identified by Automatic Number Plate Recognition as potentially having committed offences relating to tax, number plate or other matters?

1460 The President: We move on to Question number 7, I call upon the Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew again, Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister for Infrastructure what changes have taken place to ensure 1465 appropriate enforcement action is taken against people identified by the Automatic Number Plate Recognition as potentially having committed offences relating to tax, number plate or other matters?

The President: I call upon the Minister for Infrastructure to reply. 1470 The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): Thank you, Mr President. In order for there to be substantive changes to Automatic Number Plate Recognition operations to enable the technology to be used for other activities, the Road Traffic Amendment Bill 2021 needs to be enacted and secondary legislation introduced. The Bill is currently with the 1475 UK Ministry of Justice for Royal Assent.

The President: Supplementary, Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President, and thank you, Minister. 1480 Is there an indication of what date this will allow to be progressed? Thank you.

The President: Minister to reply.

1485 The Minister: It is obviously subject to the Ministry of Justice and the Royal Assent process, but this is an important piece of enabling legislation. Automatic Number Plate Recognition is a key part of ensuring that the Department is equipped to enforce against road traffic evasion and will support the use of mobile ANPR installations across the Island, which will clamp down on those who seek to avoid their duties. 1490 So we are keen to push on with it as quickly as possible, obviously subject to that process concluding in a timely manner.

The President: Thank you.

______2702 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

8. Douglas Promenade Scheme – Bus shelters

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

How many bus shelters there will be on Douglas Promenade when the scheme is completed; and what the budget for them is?

The President: We move on to Question 8. I also call upon the Hon. Member for Arbory, 1495 Castletown and Malew, Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister for Infrastructure how many bus shelters will there be on Douglas Promenade when the scheme is completed; and what is the budget for them? 1500 The President: Minister to respond.

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): Mr President, when the Douglas Promenade Scheme is completed, there will be 14 bus shelters along the promenade. The overall budget for 1505 these bus shelters is £69,900.

The President: Supplementary, Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President, and thank you, Minister. 1510 Is it the case that the current plan is simply to replace the old bus shelters back onto the promenade?

The President: Minister to reply.

1515 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I can confirm that of the 14 bus shelters, 12 are original shelters which have been reused. One is a new shelter to match the existing, and that is positioned at the end of Regent Street; and one is a new bespoke bus shelter positioned in the cultural area.

1520 The President: Final supplementary, Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. Does the Minister agree with me that these old, rusty, tired and in many cases, damaged, shelters do nothing to encourage people to travel by bus and actually makes the heavy investment 1525 on resurfacing the surrounding area questionable? Thank you.

The President: Minister to reply.

1530 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I think the key thing to encourage people to travel by bus is the excellent service that Bus Vannin provides. (Several Members: Hear, hear.) Clearly, in a world of budgets which were unconstrained, one would love to have replaced all the bus shelters along Douglas Promenade as part of the scheme. However, that was unnecessary. There was only one of the shelters that could 1535 not be made useful for continuing service once it had been removed and that has been scrapped, so I think it is a responsible use of public funds, Mr President. ______2703 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

POLICY AND REFORM

9. Communication masts and infrastructure – Securing strategic national need

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform:

What the strategic national need is for communication masts and infrastructure that cannot be otherwise secured by mast sharing or alternative locations; and how this need has been demonstrated?

The President: We will move on to Question 9 and I call upon the Hon. Member for Douglas Central, Mr Thomas. 1540 Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. I beg leave to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform what the strategic national need is for communication masts and infrastructure that cannot be otherwise secured by mast sharing or alternative locations; and how this need has been demonstrated? 1545 The President: I call upon the Minister for Policy and Reform.

The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Harmer): Thank you, Mr President, and although later in the day, I would also like to add my congratulations to your role. 1550 Obviously, I thank the Hon. Member for his Questions. A strategic national need, in respect of telecommunications infrastructure, is introduced in Infrastructure Policy 3 of the Isle of Man Strategic Plan 2016. Infrastructure Policy 3 states that:

A balance must be struck between the need for new, evolving communications systems to satisfy residential and business demand and the impact that the necessary infrastructure will have upon the environment. Measures which may help to achieve a satisfactory balance will include a presumption against visually intrusive masts in sensitive landscapes, the encouragement of mast sharing by different operators, and the removal of redundant infrastructure. Exceptions to this policy would need to demonstrate a strategic national need, which cannot be otherwise secured by mast sharing or alternative locations.

Where masts and infrastructure require planning approval, Infrastructure Policy 3 clearly calls for a balanced assessment of the need for development and the impact that it would have. As I 1555 understand it, all applications for telecoms need to be accompanied by a statement of need indicating existing coverage gaps and what the proposed mast will do to improve that. I note the Answer to the Question on the strategic national need on 18th May 2021 delivered in Tynwald by Minister Boot, where he stated that the National Telecoms Strategy 2018 and the Digital Inclusion Strategy 2016 show why there is a strategic national need for telecoms 1560 infrastructure as a whole. So, to repeat, determining that telecoms applications are about balancing visual impact and any environmental harm likely to be caused, with the need for that development. ‘Strategic national need’ is not defined in the Strategic Plan, and I am not aware of any telecoms planning cases that have added fuller explanation. In cases where terms are not defined in legislation or 1565 policy documents it is normal to take a common-sense approach to the term’s meaning; put simply, it is left to the decision-maker to balance the issues involved in respect of an application or to take a view. I can confirm that it is the Cabinet Office’s intention to review Infrastructure Policy 3 and the term ‘strategic national need’ as part of the full update to the Strategic Plan, which will be brought 1570 back to Tynwald before the end of 2023.

______2704 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

The President: Supplementary, Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President, and to the Minister for that full Answer. 1575 Obviously, Infrastructure Policy 3 would have to be reviewed as part of the review of the Strategic Plan, which is due to come back to Tynwald before 2025 – years in the future. Can the Minister advise how encouragement of mast sharing by different operators takes place; and as part of his answer, can he comment on the fact that the committee which is supposed to organise that has not met for a decade or so? 1580 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you. I will have to come back to the Member in terms of what he has said. I am not aware if they have not met for 10 years, but obviously I will look into that. 1585 The President: Final supplementary, Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you. Can the Minister ensure that that response is a matter of public record in some form, because 1590 obviously that could be quite important in terms of current planning applications and also future applications in various places around the Island? Secondly, can the Minister advise how a presumption against visually intrusive masts in sensitive landscapes is decided, in conservation areas in particular, but also in other sensitive landscapes? 1595 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. A sensitive landscape is one by which reason of its character, appearance and quality, which 1600 may encompass or identify key views is recognised as having a particular quality. Statutory designations such as ASSIs would be sensitive. Note, for example, that in the Woodbourne Lane application the officer’s report recognises conservation area status as being a sensitive landscape.

10. Grievance, capability, whistleblowing, bullying and harassment in IOMG – Instances in last five years by Department, Board and Office

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform:

How many instances of (a) grievance, (b) capability, (c) whistleblowing, and (d) bullying and harassment have been recorded in each Government Department, Board and Office in each of the past five years?

The President: Moving on to Question number 10. I now call on Ms Edge.

1605 Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform how many instances of grievance, capability, whistleblowing, and bullying and harassment have been recorded in each Government Department, Board and Office in each of the past five years? And I thank him for circulating the information yesterday. 1610 Thank you.

______2705 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

The President: The Minister.

The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Harmer): Thank you, Mr President. 1615 I had thought about the enjoyment that that might lead to, me going through row by row, but the Answer has been circulated and hopefully that will satisfy the Member.

The following Answer was circulated in writing prior to the sitting:

The number of instances of (a) grievance (b) capability (c) whistleblowing and (d) bullying and harassment (Fairness at Work) which have been recorded in each Government Department, Board and Office in each of the past five years as per the caseload records held by the Office of Human Resources, other than the information for the Manx Utilities Authority and the Isle of Man Post Office which has been supplied directly, is:

(a) Grievance

2016-17 2017-18 2018-19 2019-20 2020-21 AGC 0 0 0 0 0 CabO 0 0 0 1 0 CC 0 0 0 0 0 COT 0 0 0 0 0 DEFA 0 0 0 0 0 DESC 11 7 1 7 1 DfE 1 0 0 0 1 DHA 1 0 2 2 0 DHSC 6 7 6 2 10 DOI 2 1 2 3 0 Gen Reg 0 0 0 0 0 GSC 0 0 0 0 0 MNH 0 0 0 1 1 MUA 1 1 1 6 1 OFT 0 0 0 0 0 Post Office 1 1 1 1 1 PSPA 0 0 0 0 0 Treasury 0 0 0 1 0 Total 23 17 13 24 15

(b) Capability

2016-17 2017-18 2018-19 2019-20 2020-21 AGC 0 0 0 0 0 CabO 3 6 1 2 0 CC 0 0 0 0 0 COT 0 0 0 0 0 DEFA 0 0 0 1 3 DESC 17 19 21 23 21 DfE 3 1 3 2 2 DHA 3 1 3 1 2

______2706 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

DHSC 57 68 45 69 61 DOI 32 22 22 16 7 Gen Reg 0 0 0 0 0 GSC 0 0 0 0 0 MNH 1 2 1 1 0 MUA 0 0 1 0 0 OFT 0 0 0 0 0 Post Office 36 21 28 39 18 PSPA 0 0 0 0 0 Treasury 2 6 2 1 3 Total 154 146 127 155 117

(c) Whistleblowing

2016-17 2017-18 2018-19 2019-20 2020-21 AGC 0 0 0 0 0 CabO 0 0 0 0 0 CC 0 0 0 0 0 COT 0 0 0 0 0 DEFA 0 0 0 0 0 DESC 0 0 0 0 0 DfE 0 0 0 1 0 DHA 0 0 0 1 0 DHSC 0 0 0 0 0 DOI 0 0 0 0 5 Gen Reg 0 0 0 0 0 GSC 0 0 0 0 0 MNH 0 0 0 0 0 MUA 0 0 0 0 0 OFT 0 0 0 0 0 Post Office 0 0 0 0 0 PSPA 0 0 0 0 0 Treasury 0 0 0 0 0 Total 0 0 0 2 5

Please note that whistleblowing may not be the primary reason and may be supplementary to cases recorded under another reason.

(d) Bullying and Harassment (Fairness at Work)

2016-17 2017-18 2018-19 2019-20 2020-21 AGC 0 0 0 0 0 CabO 1 0 5 2 0 CC 0 0 0 0 0 COT 0 0 0 0 0 DEFA 0 0 0 0 0 DESC 4 9 9 8 10 ______2707 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

DfE 4 0 0 0 1 DHA 0 1 6 8 2 DHSC 10 6 14 13 22 DOI 6 3 4 9 5 Gen Reg 0 0 0 1 0 GSC 0 0 0 0 0 MNH 1 1 0 0 1 MUA 0 0 0 0 0 OFT 0 0 0 0 0 Post Office 0 0 1 2 2 PSPA 0 0 0 0 0 Treasury 0 0 0 0 0 Total 26 20 39 43 43

The President: Very good. Content? Thank you.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. 1620 I just wonder if the Minister – obviously he has put a comment at the bottom:

Please note that whistleblowing may not be the primary reason and may be supplementary to cases recorded under another reason.

I wonder if the Minister could provide the breakdown of instances that he is obviously aware of, to have put that comment there? But also the annual return has to be submitted to the Chief Secretary. So I wonder, for these five years, whether he could circulate the returns that have to be submitted to the Chief Secretary 1625 with regard to Government policies? And what action will the Minister take if it is found that this information that has been sent to Tynwald is not accurate? I will give the Minister a heads-up: the Attorney General’s Chamber does not have any recorded; the Department of Health and Social Security does not have any recorded about whistleblowing. These are all public cases that are in employment tribunals, so I do wonder if the 1630 Minister could ensure in future that we do have accurate data presented to the Court. Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to reply.

1635 The Minister: Obviously, the information is the best that I have to my knowledge and if there are any areas obviously we will correct them and supply that information. I can only give the information as I am aware or have been made aware of that information.

The President: Mr Quine. 1640 Mr Quine: Thank you, Mr President. Is the Minister of the opinion that an evolution in culture is actually set in motion now in the public sector, so things like whistleblowing and doing the right thing are things that will be highlighted more in the future? 1645 Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to reply.

______2708 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

The Minister: Thank you, and in this respect I would like to thank personally the work of the 1650 Whistleblowing Committee, and certainly in the changing of that culture. But in terms of changing the culture it is very interesting to note in the last year the drop in cases, because I think there are some really huge lessons to learn in terms of lean working, virtual teams, empowering staff and in terms of seeing how sickness numbers have dropped, but also how the number of cases has dropped. 1655 I really hope that we as a Government, as a Tynwald really learn the lessons and the opportunities that present in the future. Thank you, Mr President.

The President: I call on Mr Thomas. 1660 Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. Would the Minister agree with me that he is slightly disappointed because the Public Services Commission that he chairs has made a big thing over the last three or four years to actually improve its management information in respect of all of these things? So if it turns out that this 1665 data that is being circulated is in some senses inadequate, the Public Services Commission will have to review the accuracy of the management information it is getting. Secondly, does the Minister and the Chair of the Public Services Commission agree with me that employment culture has not been good in the public service, and it is absolutely paramount that we address this issue pronto after the general election? 1670 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you. The member has sort of twice attempted to, I think, put words in my mouth. Number one, that 1675 the numbers are wrong. Well, I have not said they are wrong, I said if there are any issues then obviously we will look into it. You have also said that everything is terrible, and I do not agree with that at all. What I have said before is that where there have been improvements, they are noticeable; and we have got to take and learn the lessons from the last year and also the positive work that is being done by 1680 the Committee to look at whistleblowing and take those forward. So I think there has been really positive movement – and I can only speak for the last year – and I think we have got to use that as an opportunity to actually bank those gains. Thank you, Mr President.

1685 The President: Mrs Corlett to ask a supplementary.

Mrs Corlett: Thank you, Mr President. Could I just ask the Minister: is this information assessed centrally in order to flag up any areas of concern? 1690 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: The information is collated by OHR and obviously with the co-operation of all the Departments. 1695 The President: Ms Edge to ask a supplementary.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. I think the Minister is missing the point that it is around the governance on recording of data 1700 that the issue is. It is quite clear that it is inaccurate. I have noticed another one, the MUA does ______2709 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

not have one recorded on whistleblowing, and clearly I am aware of that. But it also then raises concerns as to whether the grievances, capability, bullying and harassment are the accurate figures. I did ask the Minister would he circulate the annual returns that have to be produced for the 1705 Chief Secretary and I understand it is on all of these areas – grievance, whistleblowing, bullying. And what action will be taken if the annual return has not been completed for a number of years, but if the Departments are not providing the data when requested? Thank you, Mr President.

1710 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. The Office of Human Resources compiles the data on HR casework, including the four categories referred to in this Question where HR advisers have been involved to provide formal 1715 support and guidance to management. It is therefore acknowledged that not all cases may be recorded by the Office of Human Resources, as HR Advisers would not be aware of all cases. Cases are generally recorded under the primary reason for the case and other reasons may be supplementary. Thank you, Mr President. 1720 The President: Final supplementary, Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President; and, just for the avoidance of doubt, I did not put words in the mouth of the Minister, I just asked whether he agreed with my perception. 1725 The question then is: does the Minister agree with me that he or his advisers have misinterpreted the Question? Because it did not ask about how many cases HR were aware of, it asked how many cases there were in each place of each incident. Secondly, does the Minister agree with me that if it turns out that management information for the Public Services Commission is not accurate, will he do something about it, given the 1730 profound changes that have been made in the last three or four years? Thirdly, will the Minister summarise for me, to show that the Public Services Commission is taking this seriously, where the hotspots are in the data that has been circulated to Members and will be published? What is he particularly concerned about in terms of grievance, capability, whistleblowing and bullying in the various Departments, Boards and Offices of the public service? 1735 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you. Taking the third question last, obviously OHR are used to identifying, they look at trends to 1740 help with the deployment of staff resources in those Departments requiring greater support. It also enables OHR to consider whether other interventions may be necessary and to go back to cases that need to be followed up. Obviously, any complaint, all of these issues are serious and dealt with in a serious manner and also are followed up. That becomes the nature. Obviously, if there are ways to improve data 1745 collection, that is also taken seriously. I can only obviously report back on what the Departments … but it is also about that relationship with those Departments. And having those HR Advisers now in each of those Departments, I think is actually improving the collection and also improving, more importantly, the relationship between the Departments and the PSC. Thank you.

______2710 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

ATTORNEY GENERAL

11. Legal aid report – When to be published

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Attorney General:

When the report on legal aid will be published?

1750 The President: Moving on to Question 11 and I call upon the Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew, Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Attorney General when the report on legal aid will be published? 1755 The President: Mr Attorney General.

The Attorney General: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for his Question. I would also like to refer Hon. Members 1760 to the detailed statement I made in this Hon. Court on 17th February 2021. In my statement, I advised that significant progress had been made with the Legal Aid Review and responses to the criminal and civil legal aid consultations undertaken by Chambers had been reviewed and analysed. Furthermore, reports pertaining to both consultations had been completed and submitted to the Legal Aid Committee. 1765 I also advised that the next stage of the review would be the submission of a ‘legal aid options and recommendations report’ to the Legal Aid Committee for its consideration and decision. That report would be my own and drafted following careful consideration of results of the criminal and civil legal aid consultations, in addition to workshops and stakeholder feedback, and the examination of legal aid models in comparative jurisdictions. Any recommendations would 1770 support the aims of the project and in particular, access to justice, quality of service and value for money. However, as you may recall, the legal aid policy decisions remain the statutory responsibility of the Legal Aid Committee by virtue of the Legal Aid Act 1986 and, as such, it will be for its members to decide on which options or recommendations, if any, are progressed. No doubt at 1775 that stage the Legal Aid Committee may determine such matters as to their publication. I had anticipated, Hon. Members, that the legal aid options and recommendations report that I prepare would be submitted by me to the Legal Aid Committee in the spring of 2021, but regrettably, this has not been the case as the report has not as yet been finalised. Hon. Members will recall that the Island entered into its third national lockdown at the beginning of March, which 1780 came shortly after I had made my statement to Tynwald in February. As a result, once again my major priorities were forced to change and by necessity, my focus moved to ensuring that legislative measures to protect the Island were swiftly and lawfully introduced, in addition to Chambers delivering all business as usual to the Government. There have been many competing demands during and since the end of lockdown in late April and, 1785 unfortunately, I have simply not had the opportunity to complete the report in the timeframe that I had planned. I am aware, Hon. Members, that the issues faced in Chambers have not been unique and that through our Government and indeed across the Island we have all been forced to face unprecedented challenges in many different ways. However, Hon. Members will, I am sure, 1790 appreciate that my report should be afforded the necessary time and focus that it rightly requires; and I can assure this Hon. Court that I will do so at the earliest opportunity. ______2711 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Supplementary, Mr Moorhouse. 1795 Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President, and thank you, Mr Attorney, for that detailed Answer. Is there an expected date for the next update and is there an indicative cost of the process so far?

1800 The President: Mr Attorney General.

The Attorney General: Thank you, Mr President. I can say no more, I will be quite frank with Hon. Members. As I have said, I will do my utmost to ensure that this is progressed at the earliest opportunity. I have got no details as to costing. 1805 From the point of view of my Chambers, this is clearly all within my Chambers’ budget. Thank you.

The President: Loayreyder.

1810 The Speaker: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Will the Attorney give some reassurance that he is not minded to recommend that we follow the UK in a race to the bottom, where people end up getting bankrupted in order to seek justice?

The President: Mr Attorney General. 1815 The Attorney General: Thank you, Mr President. Mr Speaker, you can have my assurance that that certainly will be avoided, as far as I am concerned, and so far my report is designed to protect those who require access to justice and that has been the first priority which I have had in mind. 1820 Thank you.

The President: Final supplementary, Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. 1825 Will the inmates of the Isle of Man Prison have access to legal aid following the expected updates?

The President: Mr Attorney General.

1830 The Attorney General: Sorry, Mr President, could I ask the Hon. Member to repeat that?

Mr Moorhouse: Yes, will the inmates at the Isle of Man Prison have access to legal aid following the expected updates?

1835 The President: Mr Attorney.

The Attorney General: Thank you. The question of the scope of legal aid and whether or not the inmates at the Prison have improved access will be a matter for the Legal Aid Committee, but I can assure Hon. Members that that is a matter which I am addressing in my report.

______2712 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE

12. Accommodation strategy – When to be published

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture:

When the accommodation strategy will be published?

1840 The President: I move on to Question number 12, I call upon the Hon. Member for Onchan, Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture when the accommodation 1845 strategy will be published? Thank you, Mr President.

The President: The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture to reply.

1850 The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture (Dr Allinson): Thank you, Mr President. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for her Question. I assume that she is referring to the strategy regarding the maintenance, improvement and replacement of educational facilities on our Island. As previously discussed in this Hon. Court, our Infrastructure partners at the DoI are currently preparing updated condition surveys on all our schools. It is important to ensure that 1855 investment in our education service is directed according to need. Once the surveys have been completed, the Department will be in a position to create an accurate risk register and work with head teachers, parents and school governors to prioritise projects which will improve, enhance and expand the learning environment for our pupils and students. This process will aid the multi-agency approach to continued asset management of the 1860 educational service estate, allowing the Department to respond to any demographic changes, environmental factors and facilitate the introduction of new technologies. Thank you.

The President: Supplementary Ms Edge. 1865 Ms Edge: Thank you Mr President; and I thank the Minister for that response. I do just wonder, obviously, because this Question has been asked before, when does the Minister expect to have the condition surveys available to his Department, if there is a date in mind; and if there is a date then in mind when this strategy will come forward to Hon. Members? 1870 Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President; and it is a very good question from the Hon. 1875 Member. Whilst I am aware that our infrastructure partners are working hard in this area, I am unable to answer this on their behalf. However, the outcomes of these surveys will inform our strategic approach going forward, and we will try to get that published and available to Hon. Members and to the users of the education service as soon as possible. 1880 Thank you.

The President: Supplementary, Ms Edge. ______2713 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. With regard to his own Department, and obviously as Director of Estates, I just wonder if any 1885 of the current maintenance plans could be circulated; and what revenue and capital funding that the Hon. Member’s Department have got down for consideration at the present time, or already agreed? Thank you, Mr President.

1890 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President; and I thank the Hon. Member for her question. She has a Written Answer available later on in this session to a Question to the Minister for Infrastructure, Question number 78, which details the breakdown of the minor capital spend by 1895 year for each school and also the revenue expenditure by year for each school. Thank you.

The President: Hon. Member, Mr Thomas.

1900 Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. Does the Minister agree with me that a partial accommodation strategy without those condition surveys could be published now? So for instance, in Ballasalla, the Area Plan for the South identifies a site in Crossag Farm for the new Ballasalla School, so that could be published, surely? And in the Area Plan for the East, the Scoill yn Jubilee possibility is identified very clearly; 1905 and issues in Onchan have been identified very clearly. So does the Minister agree with me that it would be helpful to have a partial accommodation strategy, pending detailed building condition surveys?

The President: Minister to reply. 1910 The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. I think the Hon. Member makes a very good point. However, a strategy should not be a wish list and what we are trying to do within the education service is highlight those areas that need urgent action. In time, we will develop a far longer-term strategy in terms of building 1915 refurbishment or replacement. But really key to that at the moment, particularly given the budgetary constraints brought upon this country by the coronavirus pandemic, we need to make sure that the money actually goes into improving learning environments in those schools which may be suffering at the moment because they have not had the investment put into them over the previous couple of years. 1920 Thank you.

The President: Final supplementary, Ms Edge

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. 1925 I just wonder if the Minister would mind, from his Department’s point of view, providing a list of priorities that have been obviously sent to the Department of Infrastructure – and I appreciate I have got a question for the Department of Infrastructure later. But I would like to know what his Department’s priorities are currently. It is quite clear that one of our secondary schools has more mobile classrooms being installed 1930 over the summer due to accommodation stresses. But the key I would like to see from the Minister is his Department’s budget and priorities that have gone to the Department of Infrastructure, and whether that budget when it was allocated has gone to the right places. Thank you, Mr President.

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1935 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I understand the Hon. Member’s questioning, but key to spending money is to get a decent strategy about where it goes. There is obviously a degree of firefighting when we have urgent 1940 problems that need to be addressed. Those are addressed very quickly through the Department and their close liaison with the Department of Infrastructure. But key to this strategy and the key to the underlying nature of this Question is that we have condition surveys, so we can be absolutely certain that the money we are spending is in the best interests of the pupils, parents and teachers of this Island. 1945 Thank you.

13. Glencrutchery School swimming pool – When to be reopened

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture:

When the Glencrutchery School swimming pool will be reopened?

The President: Moving on to Question 13, I call upon the Hon. Member for Onchan, Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. I wonder if the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture could advise: when the Glencrutchery 1950 School swimming pool will be reopened? Thank you, Mr President.

The President: I call upon the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture to reply.

1955 The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture (Dr Allinson): Mr President, I have been informed that the Glencrutchery swimming pool has been in need of maintenance and improvement for a significant period of time. The pool closed in March 2020 as the result of the viral pandemic and generalised closure of schools and leisure facilities. The Department became aware in July 2020 of a number of concerns in relation to poor water quality in the pool and 1960 determined that until the reasons for this were investigated and identified, the pools should remain closed. It had been reported that the pool was losing a substantial amount of water through a number of leaks in the pool tank and pipework. Replacement of sections of the circulation pipework have been completed, along with the installation of an additional pool outlet to improve the water quality. New drainage grills have 1965 been installed and the tiles in the pool tank have been removed. Retiling and grouting is currently being completed. Once the pool has been refilled an assessment will need to be made on the equipment within the plant room and subject to its performance, the pool will be able to reopen. As of yet the timescale for reopening has not been finalised. Officers from the Department for Education, Sport 1970 and Culture and the Department of Infrastructure are due to meet on 22nd July to get an update and further information will then be available. Thank you.

The President: Supplementary, Ms Edge. 1975 Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President, and I thank the Minister for that response. ______2715 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

The Minister did state in his opening comments that there has been a period of time that maintenance and improvement has been required. This sort of relates to my previous Question. If it has been a significant period of time, why? Water quality can be improved quite quickly and 1980 usually done over a school summer period. Who is responsible for water quality on site? Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to reply.

1985 The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. In terms of regular testing of the water quality, that is done by the caretaker in the pool, but actually the water quality and how we assess it is quite complicated because one of the issues with this pool in particular was that it is kept at a relatively higher temperature than most leisure pools because of the clientele using it. 1990 One of the issues that came about with poor water qualities was what was the actual source of that: was that the plant work or was that the leaks? All of this has had to be addressed with a prolonged closure and renovation of the entire pool. I am including the pool shell itself and surrounding pipework. I apologise to all those people who use this pool that it has not been available, but we will try 1995 to bring it back into operation through our work with our partners in the Department of Infrastructure as soon as possible. Thank you.

The President: Loayreyder, to ask a supplementary. 2000 The Speaker: Thank you. It is nice to know that something leaks more than the Council of Ministers, but in terms of the longer term plan, is it to have pools at schools or is it about having more pools at community facilities that can then have a wider reach and broader use? 2005 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. I think Mr Speaker makes a very good point about overall pool strategy. In particular to 2010 Glencrutchery pool ongoing, really this pool is a specialist provision for our special units and is particularly designed for those who may have disabilities and who need to take part in swimming in very much a controlled environment. So when we plan the reopening, we are planning to work with all those units on the Island that make use of the pool to further that. However, we have, during the course of the last two years, refurbished the National Sports Centre to make it more 2015 accessible to people with disabilities. So there are different pools that are used for slightly different reasons, but I think he is absolutely right that in terms of an overall sport strategy, it is about getting more people to access swimming facilities, more people to learn how to swim and trying to make sure that those people who currently do not access those facilities, we understand why and can try to ameliorate that. 2020 Thank you.

The President: Ms Edge to ask a supplementary.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. 2025 I wonder whether the Minister could advise with regard to he has just said that it is possible that there have been upgrades to the NSC and it would become a shared facility for the vulnerable and disabled. I am just wondering how he establishes that because, as far as I understand, the NSC is fully booked most of the time; and whether he could circulate any specialist advice he has ______2716 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

had on, particularly the pool at Glencrutchery, if he could circulate that specialist report on the 2030 condition and the reopening of the pool and what work needs to be done to ensure that these students have that facility in the new school term. Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to reply. 2035 The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. In terms of the NSC and the pool hall renovation, additional steps have been fitted and the insertion of pool pods for wheelchair users to access the pool, and I am aware that QEII School have been attending a weekly swim session at the NSC for their students who have disabilities. 2040 As I said in my original Answer, what we need to do once we have finished the work on this pool is to start the plant room again, which has been out of operation for several months, and then maintain regular testing of the water so we can actually make sure that all the remedial work is done before we invite some of our most vulnerable pupils back into use that pool. Thank you. 2045 The President: Final supplementary, Loayreyder.

The Speaker: Thank you. I am just slightly taken aback by one of the comments that the Minister made. Can I just ask 2050 why all pools are not adapted for disabled customers in their local areas?

The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: I would like to thank the Speaker. That is a very good question and the answer 2055 really lies with history. Some of our pools are relatively old. There has been a comprehensive programme to renovate and replace pools. So, for instance, in the west and in the north the pools there have full disability access because that was the standard when they were built. We do have a problem in the south, which has an old facility which when it was built was not built with disabled access at the forefront of its mind. Whilst remedial action has been taken, that has been an add- 2060 on to the existing structure. I hope that the next administration, when we come to look at sporting and particularly swimming facilities across our Island, we can have a more strategic view on how we can increase facilities, improve facilities not only for the general population but particularly for those with disabilities.

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND AGRICULTURE

14. Planning system – Weight given to the natural environment

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture:

To what extent the natural environment is given weight by the planning system?

2065 The President: Moving on to Question number 14, I call upon the Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew, Mr Moorhouse.

______2717 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture to what extent the 2070 natural environment is given weight by the planning system?

The President: I call upon the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture.

The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Boot): Thank you, Mr President. 2075 Section 10(4) of the Town and Country Planning Act states that:

In dealing with an application for planning approval … the Department shall have regard to [a number of factors, including] (a) the provisions of the development plan, so far as material to the application;

The Development Plan comprises the Strategic Plan and Area Plan. These plans contain a number of policies that relate in some way or other to the natural environment. Therefore, the Department must have regard to these. The Strategic Plan sets out Government’s approach to planning. The Strategic Aim is:

To plan for the efficient and effective provision of services and infrastructure and to direct and control development and the use of land to meet the community’s needs, having particular regard to the principles of sustainability whilst at the same time preserving, protecting, and improving the quality of the environment, having particular regard to our uniquely Manx natural, wildlife, cultural and built heritage.

2080 All the policies in the Strategic Plan flow from this. In general terms the Strategic Plan provides for spatial strategy to direct new development to existing urban areas in accordance with a settlement hierarchy, and this directs new development away from the countryside in order to protect it insofar as possible. The Strategic Plan, Chapter 7, relates to the environment with there being around 28 individual 2085 policies relating to various environmental matters. These policies outline criteria that should be considered as part of a planning proposal. Of course, any development can result in a number of differing issues and the weight afforded to the natural environment relative to other matters will vary in circumstance. Each application is dealt with on its merits, taking into account the development plan and any other material 2090 considerations. In my view, I believe the next administration should review the Strategic Plan to include stronger links to biodiversity, our environment and Biosphere status.

The President: Supplementary, Mr Moorhouse.

2095 Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President; and thank you, Minister, for such a detailed Answer. Commenting on the St Mark’s elms issue, the Minister suggested this area will be focused on. What progress has been made so far in trying to make the process more green and more environmentally friendly?

2100 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. Well, there is comprehensive guidance obviously available and the Planning Committee and officers take this into consideration. Certainly, from my perspective and within the Department, 2105 there is an awareness of the greener agenda, Biosphere, and the need to move development into the urban areas wherever possible. But there are obviously a number of matters to be weighed up in any application. Sometimes the need for development outweighs some of the greener issues, and that is acknowledged in our Biosphere status, inasmuch that sustainable development in areas is permitted and obviously allowed.

______2718 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

2110 The President: Supplementary question, Mr Mercer.

Mr Mercer: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister, further to his reply on the natural environment, which I thank him for, what regard to protected tree and protected tree areas is given by his arboriculture 2115 officers when responding to planning applications?

The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. 2120 Obviously the Department are consulted with every application that has a potential effect on trees, registered trees or protected trees, and they do come to their conclusions. I think, in the past, we have had questions around the elm tree tunnel, and I will not shy away from that issue. The officers were consulted and were not satisfied with the original application, and they went back to the applicants and a different scheme, number of trees and remedial planting were 2125 suggested. So they do that routinely.

The President: Supplementary question, Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. 2130 Does the Minister agree with me that all land outside defined settlements, or which is not designated for future development in an area plan and its ecology will be protected for its own sake, unless ‘overriding national need in land use planning terms which outweighs the requirement’? Secondly, can the Minister advise who determines the overriding national need in the context 2135 of Environment Policy number 1? And who determines whether ‘reasonable and acceptable alternatives’ have been considered?

The President: Minister to reply.

2140 The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. In terms of overriding policy, obviously, there are some things that are of national interest or importance to the Isle of Man and the economy, and they will be looked at in that light, as it were. In terms of environmental policy and the Policy number 1 which you refer to, there is a weighing exercise in terms of any development as to whether it is necessary, the other material 2145 considerations and the environmental considerations, and they are taken into consideration by the officers looking at the policy behind it, and then they make recommendations to the Planning Committee in terms of applications that are, what I call, complicated or controversial. Then the Planning Committee weigh those again. As I found in my role as the Minister responsible for planning appeals, there are many things 2150 that can be considered and weighed in different ways, and that is the nature of planning.

The President: Supplementary question, Mr Shimmins.

Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr President. 2155 Is the Minister aware of the concept of biodiversity net gain? And would he support the introduction of this in planning matters to actually ensure that the natural environmental issues are properly considered?

The President: Minister to reply. 2160 The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. ______2719 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

I did say at the end of the original submission that, in my view, I believe the next administration should review the Strategic Plan to include stronger links to biodiversity, our environment and Biosphere status, and that will include net biodiversity gain. Obviously, it is a bit late in this 2165 administration to do that, but I would encourage the next administration to look at it in detail.

The President: Final supplementary, Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. 2170 When commenting on the Friday after the St Mark’s meeting, it was suggested that the related issues would be looked at. Is this being actively done at the moment? And, has the option of different coloured signage, for example, been considered to signify a protected tree which could be felled, or there could be an environmental impact of a development? Thank you. 2175 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I missed the first part of the question, sorry, could you repeat that? 2180 Mr Moorhouse: Yes, following your meeting in St Mark’s, you suggested that the planning system would be looked at to ensure it was looking at the environmental issues in deeper consideration. Is that actually being looked at? Has it been activated?

2185 The President: Minister.

The Minister: Thank you. Yes, in terms of what happened at St Mark’s, and that flagged up a number of issues around, for instance, the description of the development and yellow notices, and also online so that it 2190 flagged up issues. So we are looking at how we can flag up issues with Manx Wildlife Trust and other organisations to let them know that there are ecological impacts of any development. So yes, we have done that, and that is just an operational policy issue. I think, taking that a stage further in the next administration, I am sure there will be a planning review and that could perhaps be made more formal, or a review of the Strategic Plan, etc. 2195 The President: Thank you, Hon. Members. I think this is an appropriate time to take our dinner break. We will return at 2.30 p.m. and we will continue with Question Time up to 3.40 p.m. So, with that, we shall retire.

The Court adjourned at 1.04 p.m. and resumed its sitting at 2.30 p.m.

15. Protected and registered trees on public land – Felling or uprooting approved

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture:

What felling or uprooting of protected and registered trees on land owned by public bodies he has licensed in the last 12 months; and what work he has approved to be undertaken in the next 12 months on registered trees on land owned by public bodies? ______2720 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

The President: Fastyr mie, Hon. Members. Please be seated. 2200 Members: Fastyr mie, Eaghtyrane.

The President: Hon. Members, we will resume our Question Paper. We are on Question 15 and we are to have an allotted time until 3.40, so we will hopefully try to pick up the pace and I ask 2205 Members to try and be as concise as possible. So with that, I call upon the Hon. Member for Douglas Central, Mr Thomas, for Question 15.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. I beg leave to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture what felling or uprooting 2210 of protected and registered trees on land owned by public bodies he has licensed in the last 12 months; and what work he has approved to be undertaken in the next 12 months on registered trees on land owned by public bodies?

The President: Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture to reply. 2215 The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Boot): Thank you, Mr President. The Question asked by the Hon. Member Mr Thomas asked specifically about the felling or uprooting of protected or registered trees. It is important to explain from the outset that all trees with a stem diameter over 8 cm measured at 1.5 m above ground level are provided with a basic 2220 level of protection under the Tree Preservation Act 1993. Enhanced protection is provided to registered trees. This enhanced protection means that these trees may not be pruned without a licence. For clarity, the figures I am providing today in answer to this Question relate solely to felling, uprooting and removal, as asked, and not pruning or otherwise. 2225 From 1st July 2020 to 1st July 2021, 57 licences were issued to public bodies, including 31 to the Department of Infrastructure, 25 to local authorities and one to Manx Utilities. The vast majority of the licences issued under this legislation are valid for a period of 12 months from the date of their issue. One of these licences issued to the Department of Infrastructure was granted on the basis of an area rather than number of trees. The remaining licences included permission 2230 to remove a total of 263 trees, including 222 broadleaf trees, 40 conifers and one palm tree, all of which are protected or registered.

The President: Mr Thomas.

2235 Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President, and also to the Minister for that statistical information. I am not sure that the Minister has actually answered the Question that I have asked, because I have asked about the sites on which felling or uprooting of protected and registered trees has been licensed and also what plans there are in respect of registered trees. So can the Minister advise whether he will be making public the information as requested in the Question. 2240 The second question is: the reason I put this Question down in part was because over the last three or four years I have had quite a lot of correspondence about quite a number of trees in the grounds of Government House, which I believe are now scheduled for uprooting and I just wondered whether the Minister could confirm that.

2245 A Member: Hooray!

The President: The Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President.

______2721 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

2250 I can only talk about what we have information on, not about what will happen in the future. I can make a commitment to this Hon. Court to share a spreadsheet which I am not going to read out now, which identifies all the sites and the type of trees concerned. I have no idea or information with regard to Government House so that is for the future.

2255 The President: Hon. Member of Council, Mr Henderson.

Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Can the Shirveishagh explain to this Court what he has just said in terms of blanket approval to remove swathes of trees? Would he not agree with me this is complete and utter environmental 2260 vandalism, (Mr Thomas: Hear, hear.) legalised in a way? Would he not further agree with me that, in fact, what needs to happen is that the criteria for tree felling etc. needs to be torn up and a new set of criteria drawn up by his Department in consultation with environmental experts, to allow weighting for the likes of mature trees and the huge conservation biodiversity and Biosphere value that they lend the environment? 2265 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. Our arboreal department contains the necessary expertise to assess trees and areas of trees 2270 that are potentially liable to be affected by developments or removal for other reasons – for highway matters, for instance. We cannot protect every tree on the Island and if we want to go on as a modern society, whilst I do not like to see trees removed and I am sure people in the Forestry Department do not either and they fight their corner very well when it comes to dealing with other Departments and public 2275 works, we have to accept that there will be some situations where trees will be removed. But we do seek remedial planting to compensate for their removal. By far the biggest removal of trees will happen over the next few years because of ash dieback, Dutch elm disease, phytophthora and various other things, but that does not mean we should not preserve what we have got. 2280 In terms of public protected ... the specific Question was about trees in the public estate, as it were, and protected and registered trees. You talk about an area of trees; all trees are protected, as I said at the beginning – 8 cm measured at 1.5 m above the ground – so including an area of trees that are protected rather than individually registered would be a pragmatic approach in some cases. 2285 Thank you.

The President: Supplementary, Mr Robertshaw.

Mr Robertshaw: Thank you, Mr President. 2290 I am sure the Minister will agree with me that it is heartbreaking to see the rate now of die back on our ash trees and I personally have some. I did have some beautiful specimens, but they are in dire straits now. Will the process be to remove these trees the same as normal; will it be the full process or will there be some permission given on a blanket basis to encourage landowners to remove ash trees 2295 that have suffered this terrible blight without going through the full formal process? Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to reply.

2300 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President.

______2722 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Dead trees are not protected, so there is an approval mechanism, a very quick approval mechanism, for the removal of dead trees. But we have to be careful that we do not message that in the wrong way, otherwise we will find people will be removing trees that are not dead and telling us that they are dead, so there is a notification process. 2305 The President: Supplementary question, Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. Can the Minister advise whether he is aware of what he has approved in terms of work on 2310 registered trees in the next 12 months; or whether he is not aware and in any case is not prepared to tell this Court what he has approved in the next 12 months? Thirdly, can the Minister advise whether or not he has given permission to fell 40, 50, 60 trees in Government House in the next 12 months?

2315 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I am not au fait with the specifics of every application of every tree that will be felled within the public estate and I do not expect that you would expect me to be. As I indicated, I am quite 2320 willing to share, and I will share, the spreadsheet which identifies the location and the licences that have been granted. We do not follow up to see whether the licences are activated. They are valid for 12 months, so we do not know whether people act on the licences they obtain – or the public authorities do not. But there is a considerable number here and I am quite happy to answer the question about 2325 Government House, but I am not aware of any trees in the Government House estate having got permission at present.

The President: A final supplementary, Ms Edge.

2330 Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. It seems that certainly one Member within this Chamber does know what is happening at Government House because there was a plan left upstairs, and I can assure the Minister that there are about 20 or 30 trees on that in Government House. Can the Minister confirm the one area he talked about (A Member: Not 60.) is Government 2335 House? Not 60, from just counting at the time when I saw that plan, but certainly can he also confirm is it lime trees or is it just other mature trees that there have been complaints about? Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to reply. 2340 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I think I will not spend any more time on this. I have already reiterated that I am not aware of any trees that are scheduled to be removed in Government House. Conjecture there may be, but Manx skeet … I have undertaken to go back to the Department – 2345 Ms Edge: Not Manx skeet, Minister.

The Minister: – and I can confirm to Members if there are indeed plans to remove trees that we are aware of.

______2723 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

16. Ballavarvane elms planning approval – Agreement reached; petition of doleance

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture:

If he will publish the text of the agreement he has reached regarding planning, tree preservation and related matters arising from the Ballavarvane elms planning approval; whether and how the Department will participate in any petition of doleance that might arise from this planning application; and if he will make a statement?

2350 The President: Moving on to number 16, I call upon Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you very much, Mr President. I beg leave to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture if he will publish the text of the agreement he has reached regarding planning, tree preservation and related matters arising 2355 from the Ballavarvane elms planning approval; whether and how the Department will participate in any petition of doleance that might arise from this planning application; and if he will make a statement?

The President: The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture. 2360 The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Boot): Thank you, Mr President. I undertook to have a conversation with the applicants, who have a valid planning approval, to see if they would voluntarily consider an alternative solution to creating an access without the removal of so many trees, which has attracted considerable public attention. There was no formal 2365 written agreement that resulted from this conversation. I spoke with the applicants and with officers and explored alternative options on a non-prejudicial basis that may be possible for the applicant to pursue, that would not involve felling of the elm trees in the corridor. The applicants have agreed to consider alternative access arrangements with a view to submitting a new planning application which will be considered by the Department in accordance 2370 with development procedure orders. There is the potential for the applicant to enter into a section 13 agreement with the Department to voluntarily rescind the planning approval, and they have indicated that they are minded to do this. Should a petition of doleance be made, the Department would need to consider the contents of it and the grounds upon which the petition is made. I could not comment on how the Department might participate in such a petition against 2375 its own decision before such a petition is made, or during such a process, as this would be sub judice.

The President: Supplementary, Mr Thomas.

2380 Mr Thomas: Thank you very much, Mr President. In the light of the previous question, which is that the Minister does not seem to have a great deal of information about the work of the tree part of his Department – in fact, the ecology environmental part of the policy – am I right in understanding that the Answer just given says that ‘We have had a conversation, there is no formal written agreement, the conversation was non- 2385 prejudicial and we have got no idea how the planning application will be determined’? Secondly, does the Minister understand and want to put on record that the risk to somebody taking a petition of doleance, if various parts of Government could come in against the person putting down the petition of doleance, is huge? And has he just told me he is not even prepared to consider indemnifying somebody who puts down a petition of doleance based on 2390 Environmental Policy number 1 and the procedural issues in this planning permission? ______2724 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I think it would be imprudent of me to comment further on a petition of doleance, and certainly 2395 I would not be indemnifying someone to bring a petition of doleance against my own Department, that would seem to be counterintuitive. I go back to the original statement there. I do not know about every tree in the Government estate or anywhere else that may or may not be felled. I delegate these powers to my Forestry Department and, when matters are of significant interest to the public or raise comment, then 2400 obviously I do investigate to find out what is going on and see what is involved. But I should say that there are hundreds of trees dealt with on an annual basis, and I think it is incorrect to expect me to know exactly what is going on with every tree on the Island.

The President: Supplementary, Mr Henderson. 2405 Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Again I ask the Shirveishagh, it is pertinent to this Question, will he instruct his Department to review the tree-grading regime that is in place at the minute from the level 1 to 4, however it works, so that in future it is more heavily weighted towards conservation, biodiversity and our 2410 Biosphere status to give certainly mature trees far more credence for the conservation value than currently exists? Part two, Eaghtyrane, if he will agree to feed the same information and weighting into new planning policy?

2415 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. As I indicated in answer to an earlier Question, I am keen that a new administration looks at planning, particularly with regard to biodiversity, etc. 2420 I think there is nothing wrong with the weighting that goes on within the Department at the moment, but I am very happy to enter into discourse with the relevant officer teams to ensure that they are aware of the importance, as I am sure they are, of larger trees. And in fact looking back at some planning applications over the last few years, great emphasis has been laid on the loss of mature trees, particularly, and I think the Chair of the Planning Committee would probably 2425 agree with that when they are considering the applications that have come before them.

The President: I call upon Mr Cregeen for a supplementary.

Mr Cregeen: Thank you, Mr President. 2430 Will the Minister agree not to apply for costs from his Department if any applicant was to go for a petition of doleance, as it is most likely that you will not come to an agreement prior to the three-month deadline?

The President: Minister to reply. 2435 The Minister: Mr President, thank you. No, I will not enter into an indemnification process in this Court.

The President: I call upon Ms Edge, supplementary. 2440 Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President.

______2725 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

I am just brought to my feet because I am a bit alarmed that the Minister said he has officers that deal with this. I just thought I would quickly look at the Government Code for a Minister and his duty is to be:

accountable to the Chief Minister, and Tynwald, in the sense that he or she has a duty to explain the exercise of his or her powers and duties and to give an account of what is done …

2445 Why, therefore, when a Question has been asked, can the Minister not come into this hon. place and give the information requested? Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to reply. 2450 The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. I have answered the question thoroughly and undertaken to circulate a spreadsheet which runs to quite a number of items. I could stand in this Court and read the whole thing out, but I think Mr President would be very frustrated and I think Members would be as well. 2455 Thank you.

The President: Final supplementary, Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. 2460 So the last time I remember – the last public judgments case that was to do with planning and the Government – Government had indemnity costs awarded against it rather than standard costs because of the way that Government had acted in making that case. Can the Minister advise whether he has been fully appraised of the situation in respect of this very simple request to actually say, given what he has said in public already about this case, that 2465 the costs of a party withstanding bringing a petition of doleance would at least be acknowledged? Secondly, can the Minister advise that it is not unprecedented for Government to indemnify people who bring petitions of doleance in this sort of matter against costs?

The President: Minister to reply. 2470 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. It may not be unprecedented, but I am not going to enter into any commitment in this Court at this moment. The situation is sub judice, and I am not quite sure why we are talking about a petition of doleance in the way that we are. 2475 We had a very fruitful conversation with the applicant, who is very aware of the situation and the strength of opposition to the same, and it is my belief that they will enter into a section 13 agreement in due course as, from what I understand informally, a viable second route has been explored and will be submitted for planning permission in the near future.

______2726 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE

17. DHS v Tinwell – Lessons learnt; addressing cultural issues raised

The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

Following the conclusion of the Employment Tribunal case involving Dr Tinwell, what lessons the Department has learnt and how the cultural issues raised in that Tribunal case will be addressed?

The President: We move on to Question 17. I call upon the Hon. Member for Rushen, 2480 Loayreyder.

The Speaker: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. I beg leave to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care following the conclusion of the Employment Tribunal case involving Dr Tinwell, what lessons the Department has learnt and how 2485 the cultural issues raised in that Tribunal case will be addressed?

The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): Thank you, Mr President. 2490 Regarding the conclusion of the case, the proceedings were concluded with no findings by the Tribunal relevant to the motivation for any behaviours of staff. However, having said that, Mr President, this case has rumbled on for a number of years now and the Department has previously identified and addressed what it considered to be unacceptable behaviours of staff since Dr Tinwell began making complaints. 2495 It would be inappropriate for Manx Care and/or the Department, as current or former employer, to now make specific public comment in relation to behaviours of any of its current or former staff individually. This is in line with usual processes respecting the confidentiality of staffing matters. Manx Care and the Department are committed to continuous service improvement and best use of resource and fostering a culture where matters of concern can be 2500 raised, particularly where there is a legitimate public interest in doing so. Manx Care and the Department have already begun work, along with the rest of Government, in implementing improvements to reflect the outcome of the debate on the Report on the Select Committee on Whistleblowing and the Tynwald-approved recommendations. A workforce and culture project is also in place as part of the Health and Care Transformation Programme to deliver 2505 on Sir Jonathan Michael’s 25th recommendation, which states:

A fit for purpose workforce model needs to be developed to reflect the emerging needs of the new model of care. It should maximise the potential skills available within the workforce as well as the opportunity to recruit and retain high quality professionals. It will then increase the attractiveness of the Isle of Man as a career destination.

The project will focus on developing and implementing a fit-for-purpose organisational model that removes the long-standing cultural barriers that have impeded the growth of integrated and collaborative working in the Department of Health and Social Care and now Manx Care. As well as improving organisational culture, this project will set out to recalibrate and build on efforts 2510 relating to organisational workforce development that have already been developed or taken place. Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Loayreyder to ask a supplementary.

______2727 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

2515 The Speaker: Gura mie eu. Will the Minister recognise that there either is, or certainly has been, a culture of bullying and managing out in the upper echelons of Health and Social Care on the Island and as a result of this Tribunal, will the Minister refer to the Chief Executive or the Public Services Commission any further other disciplinary matters? 2520 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. In relation to the point in relation to culture, speaking personally, if I may, I do think there have 2525 been issues with culture. I think there have been some severe issues with culture. I have got to be honest that some of the things that I have read in relation to this I most certainly am not happy with, (A Member: Hear, hear.) and I do not believe it was appropriate behaviours whatsoever and it should not be appropriate or condoned in any organisation. (A Member: Hear, hear.) In relation to disciplinary matters, of course that is a staffing matter. A lot of the individuals 2530 that were referred to have now departed the Department, in one way or another, but I think that now what we need to do is ensure that we address any cultural issues. There have been cultural pieces ongoing certainly for the whole time that I have been Minister, which is now getting on for nearly four years, to try and address some of the issues. But most definitely I do not shy away from the fact that there are culture and behavioural issues that were long rooted in the 2535 Department that were completely unacceptable.

The President: Ms Edge, supplementary.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. 2540 The Minister obviously does not agree with it, but he did say that many individuals have left the Department. Many individuals have been managed out of the Department and I do wonder, prior to this case coming forward, whether the Minister will be doing a serious review of this case and everything that was in it in line with all the Government policies that are in place, including whistleblowing. 2545 Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. 2550 We take all cases seriously within the Department of Health and Social Care, and we go through everything that is provided. But as I stated in the opening piece of my Answer, in relation to the Tribunal and its current findings, the proceedings were concluded with no findings by the Tribunal relevant to the motivation of any behaviours of staff.

2555 The President: Loayreyder, supplementary.

The Speaker: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Will the Minister accept that well-intentioned dissent from the party line is healthy and even necessary in a properly functioning organisation; it is not to be shut down, as it appears to have 2560 been in this case, and maybe in others?

The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. 2565 I most certainly think it is healthy. In fact, I have been known to dissent from the party line myself on occasions. (Interjection by the Speaker) ______2728 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

The President: Ms Edge, final supplementary.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. 2570 I completely understand what the Minister is saying, that there were no recommendations, but clearly there is evidence within that Tribunal case that there were serious failings, and I wonder if the Department will be reporting any individuals who were involved and have been mentioned to their regulatory bodies (A Member: Hear, hear.) to make sure that the professional expertise in our Hospital and any other place of his Department is kept up to the right standard? 2575 (The Speaker: Hear, hear.) Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to reply.

2580 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. Where it is believed appropriate, appropriate action will be taken, and if it is believed that the failings are so serious with an individual that it demands referral to their governing body, then that will be done.

18. Pharmacy Needs Assessment – Plans to conduct

The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

If he will conduct a Pharmacy Needs Assessment to establish whether the current service delivery is matching requirements across the Island?

The President: Question 18, I call upon the Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper. 2585 Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care if he will conduct a Pharmacy Needs Assessment to establish whether the current service delivery is matching requirements across the Island? 2590 The President: Minister to respond.

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): Thank you, Mr President. A Pharmaceutical Needs Analysis, known as a PNA, is a document which provides 2595 commissioners and providers of health services with detailed information on the current provision of community pharmacy services. In addition, it identifies changes to the local population which might require different or increased provision of pharmacy services. The PNA is also used to assess whether a new pharmacy application should be accepted. At present, there is no legislation on the Isle of Man which requires DHSC or Manx Care to conduct or publish a PNA. However, a current 2600 review of the pharmacy regulations has suggested the inclusion of PNAs into future legislation, and this will be consulted on. If included, this will mandate that a PNA is carried out for the Island, although the frequency of the assessment has not been agreed. That said, a PNA was carried out in 2017 using the same parameters as the English legislation and concluded that the Isle of Man has adequate community 2605 pharmacy provision; namely, we have 23 pharmacies for our population, compared to the England average of 22 pharmacies per 100,000 people and the North-West average of 26 pharmacies for 100,000 people. A further public consultation was carried out in 2019, which assessed public ______2729 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

satisfaction with the pharmacy services and is being used by Manx Care to plan future services in community pharmacy. 2610 The President: Supplementary, Mr Hooper.

Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. I would like to thank the Minister for that Answer. He started by saying we do not have the 2615 regulations for this, but we did one anyway, so really my question is can he do another one? The reason I am asking this is he is definitely aware of a shortage of pharmacists on the Isle of Man, he mentioned we have 23 community pharmacies on the Island. My understanding is over half of them are run by one provider. In the north of the Island, for example, we have three pharmacies in Ramsey – all of them are run by the same provider, so when that provider has an 2620 issue with staff actually the pharmacy provision in Ramsey becomes completely dissatisfactory and not adequate for the needs of the north. I have constituents registering with pharmacies in Laxey and Douglas because they cannot get the service to which they should be expecting from the Ramsey pharmacies. So the question really for the Minister is does he consider that currently the north of the Island 2625 is adequately served by the current arrangements; and, if not, what does he propose to do about it?

The President: Minister to reply.

2630 The Minister: Yes, thank you, Mr President. I am not against a PNA taking place. In fact, I personally think it would be a good idea for us to undertake one, but it is good to get the legislation in place as well to ensure that it is right and proper going forward. In relation to staffing, Hon. Members will be aware of the issue that Lloyds have experienced, 2635 Lloyds Pharmacy, and other pharmacies. This is not something that is purely down to them; there are issues in England as well where trying to get any form of locums for pharmacy staffing is nigh on impossible. They did have a load of locums lined up, but then obviously with the shortage in the UK and in high demand, they found those locums found jobs closer to home and, as you would expect, decided to take those offers up rather than actually come to the Island. So it has been a 2640 difficulty not just here, but something that is also being experienced in the UK. When staffing is adequate I actually think the provision within the north of the Island is adequate, but when there are challenges, it does cause a problem. I am not going to prejudge what any PNA that takes place may actually say. I think we need to see the outcomes of that, but I am happy to take it back to the pharmacy team because I 2645 personally have no objection to us doing another one if the team believe it is appropriate.

The President: Final supplementary, Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. 2650 I found this discussion around the questions asked by Mr Hooper particularly helpful and enlightening. Can the Minister advise whether or not the interaction between the PNA, the needs assessment and the new Competition Bill has as yet been assessed? Especially in the light of Mrs Lord-Brennan’s comments throughout the Bill about the fact there could be regional anti- competitive practices working in various sectors, so would the Minister undertake to investigate 2655 the interaction and perhaps whether or not there is a view that the current arrangements for opticians and pharmacies trumps the Competition Bill or whether there is not that view?

The President: Minister to reply.

______2730 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

2660 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I think we have got to be a bit careful here, because when you are on a small Island, as we are, with a small population, particularly with things like pharmacy services and opticians, you are talking about a small marketplace and you are never going to get the level of competition and the level of service availability that you are in larger jurisdictions when you are something that is the 2665 size of a small town in the UK. I am happy to take it away and look at it, but I think we have just got to be a bit careful when we talk about market distortion, for the fact that actually that is always going to be the case and you are always going to, just from the size of the Island, have what would be classed as large-scale suppliers.

19. COVID-19 vaccine rollout – Availability; including 12-17-year-olds; future plans

The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

Whether everyone who wants a COVID-19 vaccine is able to have one; when people aged 12- 17 will be able to have a vaccine; what plans he has for the vaccine rollout; and if he will make a statement?

2670 The President: Question19, I call on Mr Hooper.

Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care, whether everyone who wants a COVID-19 vaccine is able to have one; when people aged 12-17 will be able to have a vaccine; 2675 what plans he has for the vaccine rollout; and if he will make a statement?

The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): Thank you, Mr President. 2680 I can advise the Hon. Court that everyone who wants to have a COVID-19 vaccine is able to have one in the adult population. In fact at the time of drafting of this Answer our outstanding registrations are approximately 420, the majority of these being people who are not responding to multiple calls or are waiting for specific reasons. We are seeing considerable hesitancy from current registrants for taking up the vaccines 2685 offered, with significant numbers either cancelling their vaccine doses or just not turning up. However, as we only have the three available vaccines, we can only offer what is available outside those already-booked doses. We cannot meet everyone’s expectation of vaccine type or booking dates and, as such, people are having to wait until we have vaccine and space to vaccinate in line with their requirements. However, this is a relatively small number compared to those who have 2690 received one or two doses already. Moving on to the question of adolescents and children, as Hon. Members of the Court may be aware, Mr President, guidance was issued by the JCVI yesterday in regard to the vaccination of this cohort. That guidance states that routine vaccination of adolescents and children should not be undertaken at this time, but does indicate those who should be vaccinated. This group now 2695 includes all those 17-year-olds within a three-month window of their 18th birthday, children over 12 with specific underlying health conditions, and those that are household contacts of persons who are immunosuppressed. Now that we understand the details of the guidance, we are collating the data to plan their vaccinations and factor them into the current programme and will be in contact with those who fall into these groups in due course. The vaccine used will be Pfizer, ______2731 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

2700 as this is the only vaccine currently approved for administration to this age group and will be administered through Chester Street in the first instance. Currently, there is no indication as to when or if guidance will be issued in regard to the general vaccination of 12-17-year-olds, and we will await that guidance before vaccinating any further. While the Pfizer vaccine is approved for use in these age groups we have no option but to apply 2705 the guidance. You may ask why we cannot go alone and make the decision to vaccinate anyway, but you must remember that the vaccines are supplied to us by the UK, and the agreement for the supply of vaccine is that we handle and use the vaccines in accordance with the vaccines authorisations issued by the UK government. We have made small variations but these have all been within the spirit of that agreement. 2710 Turning to the autumn booster campaign, this is currently in the planning stages, both in regard to vaccine make-up and quantity along with the preferred methods of delivery. Current delivery options are still under discussion with Manx Care. Continuing with the current system is an attractive option, but we are hoping to develop a blended approach with primary care utilising the best approach for the cohort being vaccinated in conjunction with the flu vaccine where 2715 possible. Unfortunately, no final decisions have been made either by the JCVI in regard to the specific order of any stage of the booster programme or to the final approach for delivery, and as such I am unable at this time to provide any further clarity on that.

The President: Supplementary, Mr Hooper. 2720 Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. I would like to thank the Minister for that Answer. He seemed to imply there that our use of the vaccines, he said it has to be done in line with UK authorisations. I think what he is referring to there is the MHRA authorisation, not advice from the JCVI. As far as I understand it, there is no 2725 requirement on us to follow JCVI advice and, as he said in his original Answer, we have deviated sometimes where that has been in the best interests of the Island. So leaning into the fact that the JCVI yesterday made recommendations in respect of England and Wales and the situation that they are facing in their country, does the Minister accept that our situation on the Island is actually slightly different, and there may be different arguments to 2730 be made as to whether or not we should be vaccinating our 12-17-year-olds; and will this be considered alongside the consideration of the JCVI recommendation itself?

The President: Minister to reply.

2735 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. It is considered alongside. But we also do have to be very careful, Mr President, our stock comes from the UK and at a time when obviously the UK is behind where we are in the programme – and the UK has also promised millions of doses to the wider world – if we are drawing down from the UK stock doses for age groups that the UK is not vaccinating, we have to 2740 have a very good justification for that. But also, Mr President, we have to remember that when it comes to vaccination it is a balancing act between benefit and risk, and we have to make sure that balancing act is right. One of the reasons the JCVI has not gone down the route of recommending the widespread vaccination of those 12 and over is because they have been looking at that risk versus benefit ratio; and one of 2745 the things that the JCVI, and people who have been advising the JCVI, have come back and said is that actually once you look at the effects of COVID in those age groups and compare that to the actual balance of benefit of vaccination, it does not necessarily end up the same as when you do the balance ratio with an adult. That is one of the reasons they have not gone forward with it. So we just have to be a bit careful that we do not get out of kilter here. I think it is right that it 2750 is looked at in stages and I think, as the professional body, the JCVI is something we should be looking at. We have, as I said in my original Answer, varied where we feel that is appropriate, but ______2732 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

at the moment the feeling, and certainly the clinical feeling, is that it is not appropriate to vary at that point.

2755 The President: Final supplementary, Mr Henderson.

Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Would the Shirveishagh agree, certainly with the percentage he highlighted who have not taken up the vaccination requests for whatever reason, but specifically those who have no good 2760 reason or an underlying health reason: will he agree to undertake a new media campaign to inform the general public of how important it is to have your vaccination? And would he agree with me that the news article I sent to him this morning from the BBC would be a great place to start, as it illustrates those in the UK who refused to have the vaccine what actually can happen, and for Health and Safety reasons alone? 2765 Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane.

The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. 2770 I fully agree with the Hon. Member of Council, the news article he sent me I had seen already. It is a very powerful argument made from people who have actually caught COVID who have not been vaccinated, who said they thought it was an illness that just would not affect them. In particularly the younger age groups actually are appealing for people to come forward and I think it is a very powerful message. 2775 In terms of the people who have not come forward GPs are actually already proactively, and have been for about a month now, ringing round the individuals and contacting the individuals via letter as well to remind them of the reason that they should be vaccinated, and to come forward. We have done recently another media campaign to say that people should come forward but it is a chance again, Mr President – and I thank the Hon. Member of Council for giving me the 2780 opportunity to do this – for me to again put that message out clear and simple myself. The vaccination is protecting people, if you look at the countries that actually have a high vaccination rate and you compare them to the countries which have a low vaccination rate. The vaccine is what is going to actually get us out of this in the end and the protection that is provided, not just to the person vaccinated, but also to the community as a whole, is the main benefit. So I 2785 really would urge people. I am a firm believer in personal choice when it comes to vaccination but I would urge people to look at again the risk versus the benefit, and I would urge people to come forward for vaccination.

JUSTICE AND HOME AFFAIRS

20. Private sniffer dogs – Use by Constabulary

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Justice and Home Affairs:

What plans the Constabulary has to use private sniffer dogs to supplement the existing teams involved in drug recovery and other areas?

The President: Moving on to Question 20, I call upon Mr Moorhouse.

______2733 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

2790 Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister for Justice and Home Affairs what plans the Constabulary has to use private sniffer dogs to supplement the existing teams involved in drug recovery and other areas?

2795 The President: Minister for Justice and Home Affairs to respond.

The Minister for Justice and Home Affairs (Mr Cregeen): Thank you, Mr President. The Constabulary and the Prison use specially trained dogs for search purposes. Additionally, the Department has worked with an organisation known as SARDA, which uses dogs to search in 2800 the countryside for missing people. The use of dogs by the Constabulary is an operational matter for the Chief Constable. The Chief Constable is content that the Constabulary has sufficient resources in terms of dogs and has no plans to use a private provider. I am also satisfied that the Prison is also sufficiently resourced.

2805 The President: Mr Moorhouse, supplementary.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President, and thank you, Minister, for that reassuring Answer. Other jurisdictions appear to supplement their in-house provision with private companies. Has this potential lower-cost option been considered, given the challenge of getting additional trained 2810 dogs when required? Thank you.

The President: Minister to respond.

2815 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. This is an operational matter for the Constabulary, and I congratulate the Hon. Member for trying to sniff out a question on this, (Several Members: Oh!) but he is barking up the wrong tree! (Interjections)

2820 The President: Supplementary, Mr Quine.

Mr Quine: Thank you, Mr President. Does the Minister agree with me that to my knowledge all private sniffer dogs on the Island have been trained to the NTIPDU qualification; that this differs, therefore, from the NASDU 2825 qualification, the qualification which has been successfully attained by dogs used by the police force and which forms the criteria as laid down by the National Police Chiefs policy? In view of this, will the Minister further concur that law enforcement is complex and fraught with difficulties, and when such is considered it must be concluded that it is best left to dogs which have been trained to the standard as recognised by current NPC policy? 2830 Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to respond.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I thank the Hon. Member for his question. 2835 As I said previously, this is an operational matter for the Constabulary. It is not my role to actually interfere with the operation position of the Constabulary.

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21. Sniffer and associated dog support – DHA capacity

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Justice and Home Affairs:

What the Department’s capacity is for sniffer and associated dog support?

The President: Moving on to Question 22.

Several Members: Question 21. 2840 The President: Question 21, apologies – moving ahead of myself. Moving on to Question number 21, I call upon Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. 2845 I would like to ask the Minister for Justice and Home Affairs what the Department’s capacity is for sniffer dogs and associated dog support?

The President: Minister to reply.

2850 The Minister for Justice and Home Affairs (Mr Cregeen): Thank you, Mr President. As set out in my previous Answer, the Constabulary and the Prison use specially trained dogs for search purposes. Additionally, the Department has worked with an organisation known as SARDA which uses dogs to search in the countryside for missing people.

2855 The President: Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President, and thank you, Minister. Given the challenges outlined in the Chief Constable’s recent report, are there any plans to increase the number of trained dogs and handlers? 2860 The President: Minister to respond.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. The Chief Constable has indicated that he feels that he has sufficient dogs at this time.

FAIR TRADING

22. E10 petrol – Introducing as standard

The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Chairman of the Office of Fair Trading:

Whether the Island will introduce E10 petrol as standard?

2865 The President: Question 22. I call upon Mr Hooper.

Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President – I appreciate how keen you were to get to this Question!

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I would like to ask the Chairman of the Office of Fair Trading whether the Island will be introducing E10 petrol as standard? 2870 The President: I call upon the Chairman of the Office of Fair Trading.

The Chairman of the Office of Fair Trading (Mr Perkins): Thank you, Mr President, and I thank the Hon. Member for Ramsey for his Question. 2875 I am answering this Question as Chairman of the Office of Fair Trading, which has responsibility through a licensing regime for ensuring the safekeeping of petrol at filling stations, certain stores and sporting events. For example, we license the storage in the pit lane on the motorcycle races. We have previously carried out price investigations into road fuels and currently monitor and publish retail fuel prices. 2880 In Answer to the Question, in this capacity I can advise the Hon. Member that the OFT is not aware of any plans for E10 to be introduced to the Island as standard and there has not been a request to license any storage of E10 petrol on the Island at all. We maintain regular dialogue with the oil companies and will discuss any private sector plans about the possibility of E10 being introduced as a road fuel in the Island in the future. 2885 It is important to note that my Answer is specific to the OFT and that there may be other plans or conversations under way, internally or externally to Government, that are looking to develop a strategy in this area. I can only speak for the OFT. In any such strategy and implementation plan, there would be a wide number of factors that would need to be fully considered and explored, and I would expect that this Hon. Court would be engaged at the appropriate point, as presumably 2890 would consumers and retailers. Thank you, Mr President. (Interjection by the Speaker)

The President: Mr Hooper, supplementary.

2895 Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to thank the Chairman for his Answer. I had originally tabled this Question at the Department of Infrastructure because it was really about the policy and then it went to DEFA and ended up on his desk. So I appreciate the Answer that he has given me. The reason for asking this Question is the United Kingdom are moving to E10 as a standard 2900 model of petrol, so the question really in the back of my mind is how long will the Isle of Man be able to continue to operate if the United Kingdom has moved away from E5 as standard and only sells the E10 at a higher price petrol. So does the Chairman have any indications as to the likelihood of this happening in the near future following the UK’s move or actually are we just operating completely in the dark on this one? 2905 The President: Chairman to respond.

The Chairman: Thank you, Mr President. In answer to the Hon. Member’s supplementary, I think we will have to follow the UK because, 2910 as the name suggests, the E10 is 10% ethanol added to petrol and it is ethanol which helps to reduce the carbon dioxide emissions and this will obviously help to tackle climate change. I have not got a crystal ball, but I would assume that as the UK goes more and more into E10 and vehicles are manufactured to the new standard – in fact vehicles manufactured from 2011, I think it is, comply and can use E10, but older vehicles cannot. So there is a bit of a dilemma there, but the 2915 UK is moving towards it, and I am sure we will follow in good course. Thank you.

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CHIEF MINISTER’S COMMITTEE ON COMMUNITY AND PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT

23. Community hub attendance – Services and associated costs per hub

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Chair of the Chief Minister’s Committee on Community and Public Engagement:

How many individuals have attended each hub in (a) Ramsey Town Hall, (b) Castletown Civic Centre, and (c) Western Wellbeing Centre, broken down by service provided and cost of providing the service?

The President: Moving on to Question 23 and I call upon Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. 2920 I would like to ask the Chair of the Chief Minister’s Committee on Community and Public Engagement how many individuals have attended each hub in (a) Ramsey Town Hall, (b) Castletown Civic Centre, and (c) the Western Wellbeing Centre, broken down by service provided and cost of providing the service? Thank you, Mr President. 2925 The President: Chairman to respond.

The Chairman of the Chief Minister’s Committee on Community and Public Engagement (Mr Hooper):Thank you very much, Mr President. 2930 I would like to thank the Hon. Member for that Question. It is always good to publicise these things that are going on. The key aim of the recent pilot hubs in Ramsey, Castletown and Peel was to gather feedback on the hub concept and what Government services customers might like to see delivered locally. I can confirm that in the first session of these hubs operating, the Ramsey hub received 20 visitors, 2935 Castletown received 15 and Peel had a single visitor. The hubs have only so far had a single session in each location, and it is anticipated and hoped that during July, these figures will increase. Feedback from visitors to the hubs and through the online survey has been overwhelmingly positive. To date, we have had 162 responses to the online survey, with 85% in favour of a community hub in their area. 2940 As the hon. questioner was advised when she met with the Committee on 22nd March and as was advised in an Answer to a Written Question 15 in the House of Keys on 22nd June, these services have been delivered with no additional cost to the taxpayer or ratepayer, aside from the cost of securing an additional card machine to take payments for services, which has been met through the existing Welcome Centre budget; and I am happy to reconfirm this is still the case. 2945 Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Supplementary, Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. 2950 I struggle to believe and understand how there have been no additional resources, because clearly there are officers going out to these locations. I think that was certainly the original plan. So can the Hon. Chair of the Committee confirm that we are not just talking about resources like a cash machine, we are talking about the whole resource that is to be costed for a new Government service? 2955 Thank you.

______2737 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

The President: Chairman to reply.

Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. 2960 As I said in my original Answer, I am happy to confirm that the Committee had zero budget and has not incurred any additional cost above and beyond the costs that are already incurred for operating these services.

24. Community hub services trials – Western Wellbeing Centre; consideration of Peel Post Office

The Hon. Member of the Council, Mrs Lord-Brennan, to ask the Chair of the Chief Minister’s Committee on Community Hubs:

What the basis is for trialling community hub services at the Western Wellbeing Centre; and what consideration was given to trialling them at Peel Post Office?

The President: We move on to Question 24, and I call upon the Hon. Member of Council, Mrs Lord-Brennan. 2965 Mrs Lord-Brennan: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Chair of the Chief Minister’s Committee on Community Hubs, what the basis is for trialling the community hub services at the Western Wellbeing Centre; and what consideration was given to trialling them at Peel Post Office? 2970 Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Chair to reply.

The Chair of the Chief Minister’s Committee on Community Hubs (Mr Hooper): Thank you 2975 very much, Mr President. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for her Question as well. Mr President, the locations for the trial community hubs were selected based on a number of criteria. The locations needed to require no changes to be made to their current operations, no additional costs to be met and could accommodate space for Government officers to be in attendance to meet with the public, discuss their needs and offer assistance at a local level. 2980 The Chief Minister’s Community and Public Engagement Committee has produced a full report on community hubs, which details the information gathered when the Committee met with members of the Post Office, as well as sub-postmasters earlier this year. The Report and its findings are scheduled to be debated during this sitting and I actively look forward to that debate. 2985 The President: Supplementary, Mrs Lord-Brennan.

Mrs Lord-Brennan: Thank you, Mr President. Noting that part of the remit of the Committee is about engagement, what engagement 2990 happened in connection with the provision of services at this Western Wellbeing Centre, a health centre that not that many people in the community are actually aware of? And, in connection with the location, why was that considered to be an ideal position in the town, or for visitors to the west? Noting it is supposed to be for the west. Finally, what consideration was given by the Committee to the fact that Peel Post Office already 2995 provided historically some of these counter services? Why not recognise the value of reinstating

______2738 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

those to tie in with other provisions and counter services that the Post Office already provides and that the community already uses? Thank you, Mr President.

3000 The President: Chair to respond.

Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. Like I said in my Answer, the location was chosen based on some criteria and actually the Western Wellbeing Hub met all of those criteria quite well: there is adequate space, it is already 3005 publicly accessible and it did not require any changes to get this up and running. And, very importantly, we had lots of enthusiastic co-operation from the Department of Health. So there were lots of very good reasons why the Western Wellbeing Hub was selected. In terms of the Post Office, as I outlined again in my original Answer, one of the reasons that the Post Office was not chosen is that one of the requirements we had was that it could not cost 3010 us anything extra to operate this service. Unfortunately, when we met with the Post Office Board and with the sub-postmasters, it was made very clear – and quite rightly so – that the Post Office could not subsidise a retail operation without being paid for it and, equally, the sub-postmasters themselves are private businesses and would have required some kind of commercial return or payment in order to use their facilities. So they are the main reasons as to why. 3015 The Hon. Member mentioned in her Question about reinstating services. I am not aware of services having been stopped being provided from Post Offices. So again, I am not sure what that is in reference to. The only other thing I would say is that there has been a bit of a focus following some of the press releases and announcements around the transactional services that these hubs provide. As 3020 I will try and cover later on in the debate, and without pre-empting that debate too much, the core focus of these hubs is not necessarily the transactional services, it is more the complex advice-based services that really we are trying to see expanded and rolled out more locally. The Post Office, as again I will cover later on in the debate, does provide a lot of very valuable transaction services that I personally hope will carry on into the long-term future. 3025 The President: Supplementary, Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. If you do not mind, I would just like to congratulate and thank the Member, the Chair, for 3030 having taken the work forward that we launched together back in November 2019, so successfully. The question then for completeness is, the Western Wellbeing Centre: why was that chosen over Peel Town Commissioners? Because that would be another alternative. My second question is, obviously the Department of Health and Social Care has designated two community hubs in Health and Social Care, this one and also the one at Southlands. Can we 3035 assume that in Rushen, the Southlands community hub will be the community hub that is envisaged in the Chair’s programme?

The President: Chair to reply.

3040 Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. The reason that the Western Wellbeing Hub was chosen I think over Peel Commissioners was due to timing. We could get this up and running quicker. Peel Commissioners is absolutely a valid location and again, as I will try and cover later on in the debate, there is no reason why these services cannot be provided from multiple locations. 3045 Ultimately, it is just about them working differently. It is not about incurring additional cost, employing lots of additional staff. Actually, if we can just change the way that we deliver services you could very well have these services rolled out in many more locations around the Island. ______2739 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

In terms of the Southlands provision, I think I have answered a Written Question from the Hon. Speaker, the Member for Rushen, which sets out that actually he is absolutely correct that in the 3050 south, that is definitely one of the areas that is being considered for an additional location as and when time and resources will allow.

The President: I call upon Mrs Lord-Brennan for a supplementary.

3055 Mrs Lord-Brennan: Thank you, Mr President. I suppose I would still be interested in an answer about engagement with the community, rather than engagement with the partners involved with the Western Wellbeing partnership. In addition to that, given the fears about the detrimental effect that this will have on the Post Office in terms of signifying a further death knell for the provision of account services at the Post 3060 Office in that area, will the Chair of the Committee take up the offer in the request and interest to meet again with the sub-postmaster of Peel Post Office to discuss this, and perhaps then get the benefit of the feedback that has been acknowledged in the Report, which does recognise that the Post Offices, the sub-post offices have insight into the workings and the practicalities and the goings-on of the community, and what might best meet their needs? 3065 Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Chair to reply.

Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. 3070 In terms of community feedback that is one of the prime purposes of opening these hubs in the first place. There is an online consultation as well, that I would encourage people to fill out and respond to. I did email all Hon. Members on 14th June asking for their help to publicise this, to reach out to their communities and to also reach out to their Departments, Boards and Offices and make suggestions about services and community engagement. To date, I have only had two 3075 responses, from the Hon. Member for Rushen, Mr Speaker, and from the Hon. Member of Council, Mrs Sharpe. To date, I have not had any other communication from Members advocating on behalf of their communities, which is something I would expect to see and that would be very much welcomed from myself. In terms of account services. This community hub offering at present does not offer half the 3080 account services that the Post Offices currently offer. I personally do not see that this provides any threat to those services at all, especially in light of the recommendations being made as part of the motion later on today that talks about retaining those account services within the Post Offices until at least December 2022. So again, there is a lot of stuff that is coming out of this that actually has not been identified 3085 and would probably be much better left to the debate later on. I think I have answered the questions there but, Hon. Members, I would encourage you to talk to your communities, and to provide feedback either directly to the Committee or via the online survey. And lastly, I am of course more than happy to again meet with the sub-postmaster for Peel to talk about what potential options there may be. 3090 The President: Supplementary, Loayreyder.

The Speaker: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. The Chairman did say that this initiative is being delivered at no extra cost and the way I 3095 understand that is being delivered is basically by ticking existing staff and reallocating them to the community hubs for certain hours in the week. What I could not see in the Report though was consideration given to outsourcing and, within that, that would allow the reallocation of what is currently a staffing budget into a revenue budget, which would allow others like the sub-post

______2740 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

offices to compete and to provide these services, rather than it being all done by Government 3100 centrally and staffing it. What consideration has been given to that?

The President: Chair to reply.

3105 Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. I think that is a fair challenge, actually. In terms of our Committee and the budget we had, we did not have the remit or the vires to instruct Departments to outsource some of their services. And actually in terms of a pilot, you probably would not be able to do that at a net cost-neutral basis because you would still have to keep providing the existing services as well as what could be provided on top. 3110 The Member is completely correct when he says the reason that this has incurred no additional cost, is it is simply moving staff from one location to another delivering the same service. The implication there would be if you decided to outsource the services to provide an extra service in Ramsey or in Peel, you would still have the existing service already being provided in Douglas. So the cost consideration there would be: could you lose the staff member in Douglas, in order to 3115 outsource? It is a valid question to ask. It is something that I think will have to be considered as part of the ongoing reviews that are taking place at the moment where Treasury and DoI, in terms of their services, all of that is unfortunately outside the remit really of what the Committee could achieve. This is very much a starter for 10: let’s see what works, let’s see what does not work, let’s let it evolved gradually and 3120 organically over the next few months and actually roll out something that does fit our communities. And also make sure that we do bear in mind just how important some of these other Government services are – vehicle licensing and benefits – and make sure that actually, if we are going to be changing the way these are delivered, it is done in a considered way over a period of time so as to provide some certainty to the existing sub-post offices. 3125 The President: Supplementary, Mr Harmer.

Mr Harmer: Thank you, Mr President. Would the Chair agree with me that actually this is all about a new way of working, a new 3130 concept? It is also not just about transactional services but providing an office, potential hot- desking, etc., not just for the public but also for the Government. Secondly, that the Report is very much part of that new change of actually getting something done, rather than just writing on a bit of paper and the conversations we have had about having as many services, including services in the north and in Peel. 3135 Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Chair to respond.

Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. 3140 Yes, I would agree with that, and again to reiterate that point around the non-transactional services that are being offered, that digital inclusion angle, the advice and support that is provided, again from my perspective I would very much rather have that conversation with an expert from the Benefits Office, an expert from the Tax Office, an expert from the Immigration Team, as opposed to someone who maybe has a more generalist set of skills. 3145 I completely agree with that. This is all about finding new ways of working, not trying to reinvent the wheel.

The President: Final supplementary, Ms Edge.

3150 Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. ______2741 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

I feel like history is repeating itself in here with regard to what services can be delivered, wherever, and it is certainly a lot of research that has already been done but never taken up. The question I would like to ask the Hon. Member: it seems like we have had staff sitting around just waiting to pick up any work that has been thrown in their direction. I am just 3155 wondering has any consideration been taken as to how there was availability of staff to do something for a Committee that had no funding? It just does not stack up for me that that is not costing us actually anything because there were staff available. Thank you, Mr President.

3160 The President: Chair to reply.

Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. Again, I think some Members are not quite grasping the simplicity of what has actually been undertaken here. If you move a staff member from one desk to another desk it does not say they 3165 were not doing a job at the old desk, it just means they could do the same job from the new desk as well. That is the essence of what we have achieved here, we have placed a desk in a building and allowed staff to use it. It is no different to moving staff from one end of the building to the other end of the building, or one end of Government to the other. This is simply moving staff on a pop-up basis temporarily from their current place of work to a new place of work. 3170 I am not sure it is any more complex than that. I am not sure if I can make that any clearer; if I can, I am more than happy to try.

CHIEF MINISTER

25. Accessing UK Contracts for Difference regime – Applicable legislation; extension to Crown Dependencies

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chief Minister:

Pursuant to his Answer in June Tynwald (a) what primary and secondary legislation and standards apply in respect of access to the UK Contracts for Difference regime for Isle of Man- located low carbon energy generation; and (b) whether this regime will be extended to Crown Dependency projects?

The President: Question 25, I call upon Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. 3175 I beg leave to ask the Chief Minister, pursuant to his Answer in June Tynwald what primary and secondary legislation and standards apply in respect of access to the UK Contracts for Difference regime for Isle of Man-located low carbon energy generation and whether this regime will be extended to Crown Dependency projects?

3180 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Thank you, Mr President. The legal basis for the United Kingdom’s Contracts for Difference in primary legislation are the provisions set out in the Energy Act 2013. Section 155 of that Act provides for its general 3185 application in respect of these provisions, and of secondary legislation made under the Act, to England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. This Act does not extend to the Isle of Man and

______2742 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

lacks a means of being extended to the Island by an Order in Council due to its lack of a territorial extent clause that is applicable to these provisions. Further to this primary legislation, there is also secondary legislation in the form of the 3190 Contracts for Difference (Definition of Eligible Generator) Regulations 2014, the Contracts for Difference (Standard Terms) Regulations 2014, the Contracts for Difference (Electricity Supplier Obligations) Regulations 2014 and the Contracts for Difference (Allocation) Regulations 2014, as amended from time to time, which I will collectively refer to as ‘CFD Regulations’. The CFD Regulations were most recently amended in June this year. However, these new 3195 amendments do not make any changes to UK law that would affect the Isle of Man with respect to Contracts for Difference. I am aware of interest in using the Island’s territorial waters for offshore energy generation, which may be supported by UK Contracts for Difference. However, regulation 2, ‘Interpretation’, of the Contracts for Difference (Allocation) Regulations 2014 only allows for the allocation of Contracts for Difference to offshore installations in offshore waters. 3200 The term ‘offshore waters’ is defined for these purposes as meaning the waters ‘between the mean low water mark and … seaward limits of the territorial sea’ of England, Wales or Scotland and areas of the sea outside of the UK’s territorial waters that are designated under section 41(3) of the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009 as forming part of the UK’s ‘Exclusive Economic Zone’. I would therefore advise Hon. Members that there is presently no primary legislation or secondary 3205 legislation that would provide a means of access to UK Contracts for Difference for Isle of Man- located low carbon energy generation. It is possible that the UK government may amend the Energy Act 2013 to enable its extension to the Island in the future, allowing for UK Contracts of Difference to extend an operation to the Island. It may also be possible for the UK Energy Act 2013, and the CFD Regulations made 3210 thereunder, to be applied to the Island using the vires provided by section 31 – that is the application of UK legislation to the Isle of Man – of the Climate Change Act 2021. However, under either scenario, there would need to be careful negotiations with the UK government to integrate any extended or applied legislation so that Contracts for Difference can operate effectively and legally across the various legal jurisdictions concerned, i.e. England and 3215 Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Isle of Man. A decision on such, on whether or not to undertake negotiations with the UK in this regard, would be a matter for the next administration. Thank you.

The President: Mr Thomas, supplementary. 3220 Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President, and I really do appreciate the full legalese Answer that was provided. So in summary, can the Chief Minister advise then that as we saw no attempt to include the Crown Dependencies in the June 2021 amendments to the Regulations made under the Energy 3225 Act 2013 that the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture and staff have not actually as yet achieved any success in persuading the UK to allow the Crown Dependencies into the regime? Secondly, more generally, can we now say that the mission that we have been on since 2014-15, when DONG Wind, now Ørsted, have had permission to generate electricity in our territorial waters to export under the CFD regime is now dead, and there is no possibility that that 3230 will ever be realised, except for our own internal use of electricity?

The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. 3235 If I could just say that the Isle of Man Government has discussed eligibility for Isle of Man projects with UK energy minister and officials on several occasions now since 2013. The Hon Member is quite right that Ørsted, formerly DONG Energy, has signed an agreement for lease (AFL) with the Isle of Man Government and this AFL gives Ørsted the right to investigate an agreed ______2743 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

area within the Isle of Man territorial seas located approximately six to 12 nautical miles off the 3240 east coast of the Island to determine its suitability for an offshore wind farm and subject to investigations and the outcome of future consenting processes this wind farm could generate up to 700 megawatts of electricity, but really it is down to negotiation with the UK. If that is the strategy going forward, then I am sure the next jurisdiction will be able to get this. The Isle of Man Government has good negotiations working with Westminster, and I am sure, through 3245 Lord Wolfson, the Crown Dependencies’ representative in the UK government, we would be successful following useful negotiations.

The President: Supplementary, Mr Thomas.

3250 Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President; this is all very helpful. So can the Chief Minister say that after seven years of attempting to negotiate something, which has not as yet achieved something, there is still a possibility that politically the UK will allow the Isle of Man and the other Crown Dependencies and operators in those waters to use the CFD regime? Is that credible, to actually encourage that belief? 3255 The second point is does the Chief Minister now agree, then, that it is rational to assume that we are not going to be able to generate any revenue from leasing our seabeds for offshore wind generation unless we use that electricity on the Isle of Man?

The President: Chief Minister to reply. 3260 The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I think there is every chance that if we definitely wanted this legislation to be amended to include the Isle of Man that it could be negotiated. Regarding taking money from DONG Energy, I am sure they would be paying the Isle of Man 3265 for the use of our territorial waters, to put their wind farms on our territorial waters, but that is a commercial negotiation that I do not want to discuss or put any marker down for the future.

26. Programme for Government – Progress since 2016 General Election

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chief Minister:

What progress the Government has made since the General Election in 2016 according to the Programme for Government macro and national indicators?

The President: Question 26, I call upon Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. 3270 Asked again to the Chief Minister, what progress the Government has made since the General Election in 2016 according to the Programme for Government macro and national indicators?

The President: Chief Minister to reply.

3275 The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Thank you very much, Mr President, and I thank the Hon. Member for his Question on the macro and national indicators for the Programme for Government. The macro indicators largely show positive progress, despite the unprecedented and towering challenges this administration has faced. The first macro indicator is to increase median earnings ______2744 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

3280 after tax, and this has shown positive growth – 5.3% during this administration. This is important, as it means money in people’s pockets after the effects of inflation. We must remember, however, that not everyone, especially in our response to the COVID-19 pandemic, will have experienced a pay rise in recent times, and some people will unfortunately have lost their jobs. However, with the support of the Economic Recovery Group through a 3285 number of initiatives, many businesses have been supported to survive, recover and now grow again, which is and will help people to find a new employment. It was interesting to listen to the Treasury Minister’s figures just now of what the unemployment rate has come down to – I think it was circa 463. The second indicator is to increase the economically active population, and this has increased 3290 2.9% during this administration. The trend was positive up until the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, where, as expected, the number of economically active people reduced. It has, however, already begun to recover since then, whilst not yet having recovered to its peak in September 2019. Our third macro indicator was to increase the number of businesses registered to pay ITIP. 3295 Again, I am pleased to report positive growth here. The number of registered businesses has risen by 14.1%. One indicator which has not moved in the direction we had wished is that of reduced structural deficit. Hon. Members have heard directly from the Treasury Minister on the impact of COVID-19 on public finances, so I do not intend to labour that point. 3300 We have not carried out a Social Attitudes Survey in 2020, due to reprioritisation of resources in responding to COVID-19. This means that we are unable to report on the two final macro indicators: the number of people who say that Government policies and actions are making a positive difference to people’s lives and confidence in Government. I have focused, Mr President, as requested, on the indicators of the Programme for 3305 Government. I wish the Hon. Member had asked me about the delivery of the actions from the Programme for Government, where I could have listed what we, Tynwald, have achieved by working together, and we will be reporting on that separately. Thank you, Mr President.

3310 The President: Supplementary, Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. So the macro and national indicators are not published since April 2019. Year 3 and year 4 indicators are not published. Will the Chief Minister commit to publish those indicators? I note 3315 from the Answer back in the middle of June that that information was ready back in January this year, and I had a commitment then that it would be published by the end of that week.

The President: Chief Minister to reply.

3320 The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. If the Hon. Member would like to come and see me, I am more than happy to get these published as soon as possible. If the data is available, then I will ask. But if a promise was made to him in January and we have not delivered on it – (Mr Thomas: June.) June? Oh, June. I thought you said January, sorry. So June; that is only a few weeks ago. If that has not been done, then I am 3325 more than happy to ask officers why it has not and get it delivered as soon as possible to all Hon. Members. Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Thank you.

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27. Next Lieutenant Governor – Procedure and criteria used for nomination

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chief Minister:

How the next Lieutenant Governor was chosen and appointed; and what criteria the local nomination panel used to select the Island’s nomination for this role?

3330 The President: Moving on to Question 27, I call upon Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you very much, Mr President. Again for the Chief Minister: how the next Lieutenant Governor was chosen and appointed; and what criteria the local nomination panel used to select the Island’s nomination for this role? 3335 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Thank you, Mr President. Fully open and transparent recruitment, sifting and interview procedures were undertaken as 3340 part of the process to choose a nominee to recommend to the Queen as the next Lieutenant Governor for the Isle of Man. The local selection panel representing the Crown and judiciary, the parliament and executive Government comprised His Honour , the First Deemster and Clerk of the Rolls as Chair; His Honour Jeremy Storey, Judge of Appeal; the Hon. , President of Tynwald; and me, as Chief Minister. The Chief Secretary acted as adviser to the panel. 3345 A comprehensive information pack was published, which included a full job description and person specification, the selection procedure and an application form. The position was advertised extensively and a total of 46 applications were received from both on- and off-Island applicants. The calibre of many of the applicants was exceptional. Following a formal shortlisting exercise by the panel, four candidates were invited for 3350 interview. The top two candidates then took part in a second round of interviews. At both the shortlisting and interviewing stages the candidates were scored against the competencies and attributes set out in the job description and the evidence provided in their CVs. I am delighted that the appointment of Sir John Lorimer, the panel’s preferred candidate was recently approved by Her Majesty the Queen. Sir John will be sworn in as the Island’s Lieutenant Governor at Castle 3355 Rushen later this year.

The President: Supplementary, Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President; and to the Chief Minister for that very helpful 3360 description of what I am sure will have been a well-managed and fair process. Just for the avoidance of doubt, given that some members of the establishment have been in touch with me to make this point, some people have said that for 30 years the Isle of Man has been on a journey to try to remove the military capacity in this role, looking for things that are more to do with what we do now, which is the economy and tax and foreign relations. Was that 3365 in any way a criterion? I think it would be helpful for the Chief Minister to put on record whether or not that was in any way considered in those criteria.

The President: Chief Minister to reply.

3370 The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to reassure the Hon. Member, and all Hon. Members, that we went after the best candidate. (Two Members: Hear, hear.) I think whether they have got a military title or they have

______2746 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

been a diplomat, etc., you want the best person and it just so happened that the best person had a military title. 3375 The candidates were scored against the competencies and attributes set out in the job description, which included: ‘a distinguished record of Crown, Public or other relevant service at the highest level’; interpersonal skills; social activity and awareness; dignity and leadership; diplomacy and adaptability; and judgement and organisation. Thank you, Mr President. 3380 The President: Ms Edge, supplementary.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. I just wonder, the Chief Minister comments about the scoring matrix, whether he would 3385 circulate the scoring matrix. I do not expect names to be in there, but certainly circulate the scoring matrix. And I do wonder, could the Chief Minister confirm: did the panel receive the shortlisted personnel from the scoring matrix, or were they involved in the actual shortlisting? Thank you, Mr President. 3390 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. Again, subject to me being allowed to do it, because I am not the Chair of the Committee, I was 3395 purely a member of the Committee, I am more than happy to share the matrix if that is allowed. It may not be that I am allowed, but obviously nothing can be done with individual names, etc., there is the confidentiality.

Ms Edge: I said no names! 3400 The Chief Minister: Could the Hon. Member remind me of the second point? I was taken away by the first question.

Ms Edge: Certainly. It was just in connection with the panel, did you actually receive the 3405 shortlisted candidates or did the panel look at, say, 20 applicants and come up with four? Thank you, Mr President.

The President: The Chief Minister.

3410 The Chief Minister: The Committee saw all 40-plus applications and agreed with the scoring on how it was done. Thank you.

The President: Final supplementary, Mr Moorhouse. 3415 Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. Were all the shortlisted male, white and over-55? And how many ladies, local residents and ethnic minorities applied for the role? Thank you. 3420 The President: Chief Minister to reply.

The Chief Minister: Thank you.

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I might want to take advice here, Mr President, from a confidential point of view, what was 3425 said. I think the over 50-something, to have all that experience you are not going to be a 25-year- old, certainly, (Laughter) let’s be blunt here. I know I can say that ladies did apply for the job, but I am not prepared to discuss the other issues. It is not something we take into account, (A Member: Hear, hear.) it is the best person for the job to be our Lieutenant Governor. That is all we want. 3430 Mr Robertshaw: Hear, hear.

INFRASTRUCTURE

28. Newly elected commissioners and councillors – Training provision by DoI and others

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

What training will be provided by (a) the Department of Infrastructure and (b) other Departments during the remainder of 2021 for the Island’s new commissioners and councillors?

The President: Question 28, I call upon Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. 3435 I would like to ask the Minister for Infrastructure what training will be provided by (a) the Department of Infrastructure and (b) other Departments during the remainder of 2021 for the Island’s new commissioners and councillors?

The President: I will call upon the Minister to respond. 3440 The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): Thank you, Mr President. Members will be aware that local authorities have recently been going through the local authority general election period with nine elections due to take place this week. From 1st August a number of new members will be in place across the Island as well as some existing members 3445 retaining their positions. This is notwithstanding the fact that additional new members may also emerge from any by-elections which may be required in the next few months. Following the last local authority general election in 2016, my officers participated in a training evening organised through the Municipal Association on local authority corporate governance and local authority legislation, and also held a drop-in event for new members. I am informed that 3450 both of these were well received. As such, it is my Department’s intention to hold a similar drop- in event for local authority members to learn about their role and what is expected of them. As local authorities are generally best placed to know what training is needed in their area, the Department will work with the local authority clerks and the Municipal Association to identify training requirements and to determine if there is a need for other Departments to be involved in 3455 any more detailed or specialist training. I thank the Hon. Member for highlighting the need for training to be given to help local authority members across the Island to be better prepared for their important role in their communities. Thank you, Mr President. 3460 The President: Thank you, Minister. ______2748 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Suspension of Standing Orders to take remaining Oral Questions – Motion lost

The President: That concludes our allotted time for Questions, Hon. Members.

Ms Edge: Mr President, sorry, I do not have the wording in front of me, but is it possible to 3465 suggest that we continue with Questions?

The President: I am content that we go straight to a straight vote on that, Hon. Members, to continue Question Time.

A division was called for and electronic voting resulted as follows:

In the Keys – Ayes 12, Noes 10

FOR AGAINST Mrs Barber Dr Allinson Mrs Caine Mr Ashford Mr Callister Mr Baker Mrs Christian Mr Boot Mrs Corlett Mr Cregeen Ms Edge Mr Harmer Mr Moorhouse Mr Hooper Mr Perkins Mr Peake Mr Quine Mr Quayle Mr Shimmins Mr Robertshaw Mr Speaker Mr Thomas

The Speaker: Mr President, in the House of Keys, 12 votes for, 10 against.

In the Council – Ayes 3, Noes 5

FOR AGAINST Mr Mercer Mr Greenhill Mrs Poole-Wilson Mr Henderson Mrs Sharpe The Lord Bishop Mrs Lord-Brennan Mrs Maska

3470 The President: And in Council it is 3 for and 5 against. The Branches are in disagreement and the motion fails. So Hon. Members, the Questions I presume will therefore be circulated in writing and the Written Answers will also be circulated in the normal manner too.

______2749 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Questions for Written Answer

CHIEF MINISTER

2. Government and ministerial code cases – Number considered

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Chief Minister:

How many cases under the Government and ministerial codes he has had to consider during his tenure?

[Awaiting Written Answer]

INFRASTRUCTURE

29. IOM registered vehicles entering the EU – Sticker displayed from September 2021

The Hon. Member for Garff (Mr Perkins) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

What sticker should be displayed on vehicles registered in the Isle of Man entering the European Union from September 2021; and for how long the traditional GBM sticker will remain valid?

3475 The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): Vehicles registered in the Isle of Man entering countries that are a signatory to the 1949 Geneva Convention on Road Traffic should display an elliptical sticker, which has a white painted background with black letters stating GBM, on the rear of the vehicle. This is the national identifier code for the Isle of Man and it was lodged by the UK, on behalf of 3480 the Isle of Man, with the United Nations in respect of the 1949 Geneva Convention. This national identifier will remain valid.

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30. Making roads one way – Procedure

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

What the procedure is for changing roads to one way?

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): The procedure for changing roads to one-way is prescribed under Schedule 2 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1985. It sets out that where the Department proposes to make an Order to which that Schedule 3485 applies, the Department shall –  Prepare a draft of the order;  Cause notice of the proposal to be published in a local newspaper;  State the general effect of the order;  Name a place where a copy of the order may be inspected, being a period of not less 3490 than 14 days; and  State that any person wishing to object to the proposal may do so in writing within that period. The Schedule further requires that the Department shall not make the order before expiry of the objection period and before considering any objections made during that period. 3495 The Department must then publish notice in a newspaper confirming the order has been made. As an ancillary measure, the Department distribute a copy the proposed order to the Police and the relevant local authority for the area.

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND AGRICULTURE

31. Planning decisions while Keys dissolved – Those expected to be made

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture:

What planning decisions he expects to make whilst the House of Keys is dissolved?

The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Boot): As my hon. colleague will know, operational decisions are still able to be undertaken between the date that the House of 3500 Keys is dissolved and a new Minister is appointed. The planning decisions that fall to me are decisions on appeals. I intend to continue to make those decisions unless I need to declare an interest, in which case I shall delegate the matter accordingly.

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HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE

32. Financial viability under Regulation of Care Regulations 2013 – Monitoring and oversight by DHSC

The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

What monitoring and oversight is undertaken by his Department to monitor compliance with regulation 24 (Financial viability) of the Regulation of Care Regulations 2013 for each category of registered persons under the Regulation of Care Act?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): Regulation 24 of the Regulation of Care (Care Services) Regulations 2013 places a general responsibility upon all care providers to ensure 3505 their financially viability for meeting the needs of services users. Therefore, no distinction is made as to the category of each registered person for the purposes of applying regulation 24. Under part 1(e) of Schedule 3 of the Regulation of Care (Registration) Regulations 2013, all care services are required to give signed consent to the Department of Health and Social Care for it to obtain a reference from the applicant’s bank expressing an opinion as to the applicant’s financial 3510 standing. Financial viability is therefore addressed at the point determining a care provider’s fitness to be registered. The Regulations as currently drafted do not provide the Department’s Registration and Inspection Team with the necessary statutory powers to conduct subsequent checks of a care provider’s financial viability, although such a concern may in practice be highlighted through 3515 broader inspection activity looking at the provision of care and its associated quality.

33. NHS vaccine travel certificate app – Progress and available alternatives

The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

What progress has been made with the NHS digital app for vaccine travel certificates; what alternatives are available until this system goes live; and if he will make a statement?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): The NHS UK digital app discussions continue with the UK. As Hon. Members will be aware, the Isle of Man have waited for the UK commission behind Wales and are now in intensive discussions with the NHS Digital team in the UK. 3520 There are three work streams in the planning, which include: (1) Legal documentation – the IoM is dependent on the UK providing this information for the Attorney General Chambers to review. This is currently the biggest risk to the roll- out and we await the full suite of paperwork from the UK; (2) Business change processes – this includes the mapping of the service IoM residents 3525 will receive, the processes the UK will undertake and how the manual letters if needed will be issued. Workshops are underway with the UK in this respect and we expect to mirror the UK service in full; (3) Technical transfer / processes. The teams have been working on this for some time, and subject to final testing from the UK we believe this element is complete. 3530 May I remind Hon. Members that there is an interim solution in place where individuals who are travelling internationally in the next two weeks can call Manx Care for a letter to confirm their

______2752 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

vaccination status. IoM residents travelling to the UK can use their vaccination card or screen shot from their GP record as evidence for the IoM landing card. The DHSC and wider Government colleagues will continue to keep the programme focus on 3535 the work with the UK NHS Digital team and we hope to have this complete in a matter of weeks. Updates are given to the Council of Ministers each week and we are aware that the UK political system supports the importance of this roll-out for IoM residents.

34. DHSC Chief Executive Officer – Plan to advertise for a permanent role

The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

When he plans to advertise for a permanent Chief Executive Officer of his Department?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): The Interim Chief Executive’s secondment from the NHS in the UK is in place until 8th January 2022, a two-year secondment as 3540 externally recruited to. The DHSC, Cabinet Office and Office of Human Resources have discussed the high-level position and agreed that it will be critical to ensure that with many new staff members in the redesigned DHSC, leadership continuity is currently essential and alongside the change of administration, the interim CEO will develop a transition plan to a permanent CEO over the coming 3545 six months. Advertisement for a permanent CEO is likely to begin in the autumn.

CHIEF MINISTER

35. Non-disclosure agreements – Benefits to Island

The Hon. Member for Douglas North (Mr Peake) to ask the Chief Minister:

Whether the use of non-disclosure agreements benefits the Island; and if he will make a statement?

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): With clarity having been sought from the Hon. Member, I understand the Question concerns the use of non-disclosure agreements in settling employment matters. It should, however, be noted that non-disclosure agreements may also relate to other 3550 matters such as commercial contracts and intellectual property. It is important to first of all consider what is meant by a non-disclosure agreement which is an agreement about confidentiality. These are used by employers and employees to prevent the sharing of information. For example a non-disclosure agreement may be made at the start of the employment relationship in respect of protecting company secrets or in the unfortunate event 3555 where there is a dispute to keep details confidential. Non-disclosure agreements, or confidentiality clauses, are utilised as standard practice by the Manx Industrial Relations Service (MIRS) in settlement agreements to resolve employment disputes, a practice which it recommends. The ACAS guidance on settlement agreements also includes confidentiality clauses in its model agreement.

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3560 There are often complex underlying issues in employment disputes and a settlement, which may include a non-disclosure agreement, can be seen as a fair way of resolving these for both parties and respecting the confidentiality of employment matters. Hon. Members, I would suggest if used ethically and appropriately, in certain circumstances a non-disclosure agreement can provide a legitimate and dignified way of resolving an employment 3565 dispute for both parties therefore, the use of non-disclosure agreements can be beneficial.

36. Closing the border – When medical advice first received

The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Chief Minister:

When he first received the medical advice that he should close the border?

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): On 16th March 2020, the Council of Ministers was advised by the Department for Health and Social Care that there was limited availability of Intensive Care Unit (ICU) beds on-Island. As a result there was a need to consider proactive steps to ensure the availability of ICU beds, and delaying as far as possible the need to use them, or reach capacity 3570 before time. It was also at this meeting on 16th March 2020 that the Council of Ministers first discussed the closing of the borders but it was decided that further urgent information was required and be brought back to Council of Ministers.

37. Reports commissioned by and promised to Tynwald – Those outstanding since October 2016

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Chief Minister:

What reports (a) commissioned by and (b) promised to Tynwald since October 2016 are outstanding; and if he will make a statement?

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Reports commissioned by the Court are recorded in the 3575 Tynwald Policy Decisions Report and are subsequently published on the Tynwald website: https://www.tynwald.org.im/business/tyndec/Pages/default.aspx A report detailing Tynwald Policy Decisions is laid annually before each October sitting of Tynwald and provides updates on progress from the previous parliamentary year. As part of the ongoing work in preparing the report for the Tynwald sitting in October, an 3580 additional report will be compiled detailing the status of reports both commissioned by and promised to Tynwald during this administration and will be provided to Hon. Members once collated and completed.

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INFRASTRUCTURE

38. Horse trams – Tramway installation; soft landscaping cost; when operating

The Hon. Member for Garff (Mrs Caine) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

What progress has been made on installing the horse tramway on Douglas Promenade; when it is expected the descoped section will be built; what the cost is of soft landscaping the Loch Promenade section including the paving being installed; and when horse trams will start operating?

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): The remaining 200-metre section of the horse tramway between Strathallan and Castle Mona Avenue will be completed in September 2021. 3585 These works will form one of the last sections of the Douglas Promenade Refurbishment Scheme. Unforeseen issues with the delivery of Auldyn supplied rail and point motor boxes are factors that have prolonged the completion date of this section of work. The remaining section of single-track rail between Castle Mona Avenue and the Sea Terminal was de-scoped from the Promenade Scheme (in mid-2020). This will be constructed once 3590 additional funding is approved by the Court of Tynwald in line with the 2021 Budget. I expect that the tender will be issued (early in the next administration) enabling the required motion to be brought before this Hon. Court very promptly after the procurement process is concluded.

39. Carraghan and Injebreck Hill footpaths – Progress in restoring public access

The Hon. Member for Garff (Mrs Caine) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

What progress has been made towards restoring public access to footpaths over Carraghan and Injebreck Hill?

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): The Department’s Highway Services Division has held discussions with the tenant and landowner of both sites. This has resulted in the signs that 3595 had appeared being removed. No further complaints have been received since.

40. Republic of Ireland regular air connectivity – Steps to ensure

The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

What steps he is taking to ensure regular air connectivity to the Republic of Ireland?

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): As Hon. Members will be aware, prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, the route between the Isle of Man and the Republic of Ireland was an ‘Aer Lingus Regional’ branded route that was operated on its behalf by Stobart Air offering residents 3600 an excellent interlining capability, particularly for the North American market.

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In November 2020, Aer Lingus re-tendered the franchise for the Aer Lingus Regional service and a new airline, Emerald Airlines, was expected to take over from Stobart Air with effect from January 2023. Unfortunately, due to the sudden cessation of Stobart Air, Aer Lingus took over some of the 3605 higher passenger volume routes, as it has the larger aircraft to accommodate this. In the interim, Emerald Airlines have been working with the relevant aviation authorities to bring forward its application for an Air Operator’s Certificate for use by October 2021. I can confirm that the Department is in regular and close contact with the management of Emerald Airlines, who are currently evaluating the Aer Lingus Regional network; and the 3610 Department understands that the Dublin/Isle of Man service is one of the destinations that will form part of its new franchise operation. The Department expects a further update on this matter in September 2021.

HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE

41. Residential care provision for the West – Progress

The Hon. Member of the Council, Mrs Lord-Brennan, to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

What progress has been made on residential care provision for the West?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): Hon. Members will remember that the Department’s recent priority regarding residential care provision in the West has been to support 3615 the transition for residents of the Corrin Memorial Home safely. This has now been completed. The Department asked to meet with the Trustees of the Memorial Home to discuss the development of the site for future health and care provision, including residential care facilities. The Trustees asked to meet in August after they had completed the wind down of the operating company by the end of July. 3620 The Department are keen to look at how the existing site can be developed and alongside the Western Wellbeing Partnership and GP Practice the area is an ideal opportunity for a strong community-based health and care integrated service provision in line with Sir Jonathan Michael’s report, serving the residents of the West for many years to come.

42. Advice on borders from Dr Ranson – When given to Chief Minister and CoMin

The Hon. Member for Douglas East (Mr Robertshaw) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

When he passed Dr Ranson’s advice on the borders, which he had received by 13th March 2020, to the Chief Minister and the Council of Ministers?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): Hon. Members, the DHSC stepped up 3625 its command structure around COVID in early February last year, which was then subsequently expanded to include the entire Government and remains in place to this date.

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The Clinical Advisory Group (CAG) fed its advice by the Chair, Dr Ranson, into the command structure formally. The advice regarding closing the borders from the wider Clinical Advisory Group (CAG) was one 3630 of a suite of measures recommended. These recommendations were given to me by the Interim CEO on 12th March, and also by Dr Ranson herself on 13th March. I am aware that Chief Officers were discussing the recommendations through a number of sessions from 11th March onwards, formalising presentations to the National Strategy Group, leading to the final decision around the Borders on 25th March, by Council of Ministers.

CHIEF MINISTER

43. Advice on borders from Dr Ranson – Receipt and response by Chief Minister

The Hon. Member for Douglas East (Mr Robertshaw) to ask the Chief Minister:

What advice the Chief Minister received from Dr Ranson about the recent changes to the borders and the Delta variant; and what response he made to Dr Ranson?

3635 The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): On 13th June 2021 I received an email from Dr Ranson regarding the changes to the borders in relation to testing on arrival and the ability of the vaccinated to be allowed on the Island with no test or isolation. Dr Ranson expressed concerns of the mitigation strategy we have adopted and the need for societal mitigation measures. Dr Ranson also highlighted some increased and unknown risks in 3640 relation to the Delta Variant. Dr Ranson did ask this to be brought to the attention of the rest of the Council of Ministers and Dr Ranson has already been advised on a number of occasions that her views have been fully expressed to the Council of Ministers, including by the Minister for Health and Care directly. In mid-May Dr Ranson’s views were minuted directly around the changes to the borders, the 3645 testing and self-isolation pathways which also included reference to unknown risks around the Delta variants. As a result, I felt there was no requirement to respond formally to Dr Ranson.

INFRASTRUCTURE

44. Vicarage Close in Ballabeg – Plans to construct path behind

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

What plans there are to construct a path behind Vicarage Close in Ballabeg; and what consultation has taken place with residents there?

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): I can confirm that the Department is in the process of undertaking works to mitigate a known flood risk. As the ground is being disturbed by this process the Department has taken this opportunity to extend a private access across its own land. 3650 The pathway will serve to provide access to the rear of four of the Department’s properties which will be advantageous for the Department, the tenant and the emergency services. ______2757 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

As with any construction or property maintenance activity, the Department’s Public Estates and Housing Division undertakes, all directly impacted stakeholders have been consulted and their views sought.

45. Arbory Parish Hall – Replacing red line with traditional crossing point

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

What plans there are to replace the red line outside Arbory Parish Hall with a traditional crossing point?

3655 The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): A review of Ballabeg Village was undertaken in October 2020. The report concluded that the current highway layout, traffic signs and road markings have had a positive effect on vehicle speeds through the village and that the village continues to experience very low road traffic collisions. The report identified a small number of possible improvements for the Department to 3660 consider. These included additional traffic signing and consideration of installing a speed table at Arbory Parish Hall. The Department will undertake a cost-benefit analysis this year to decide if any further work will be undertaken.

CHIEF MINISTER

46. Government’s central communications division – Numbers employed; money spent externally

The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Chief Minister:

How many people are employed in the Government’s central communications division; and how much he has spent on external (a) speech-writers and (b) media and PR consultants in each of the last five years?

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): The Government Communication Service, based in the 3665 Cabinet Office, provides a shared communication service to Government Departments as well as support and advice to Statuary Boards and other public bodies. The service currently comprises 10 full-time-equivalent posts. Three of these are limited-term appointments, two are responsible for graphic and multimedia design, and one will transfer to Manx Care later this year. 3670 No money has been spent directly on external speech writing in the last five years. The Cabinet Office paid for the services of a consultant to deliver media and public-speaking training to the Council of Ministers earlier in this administration. The total spend was as follows:

FY 16-17 Zero FY 17-18 £10,523.20 FY 18-19 £78,972.50 FY 19-20 £33,709.20 FY 20-21 Zero FY 21-22 to date Zero

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In addition, the Government has a contract in place with a government relations and public affairs agency who also provide media advice as required. Full details of that contact were 3675 released in March 2021 in response to a Freedom of Information request (1672361).

47. Median earnings after tax – Growth since 2016 General Election

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chief Minister:

By how much median earnings after tax have grown since the 2016 General Election; whether more people are sharing in the success of the Island’s growing economy, as referred to in the Government’s progress report; and if he will make a statement?

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): This macro indicator, as part of the Programme for Government, is calculated using the Isle of Man Earnings Survey, looking at those employees in full-time employment whose earnings have been unaffected. The reference date for each year in the table below is at the start of June, and the data is stated in real terms to June 2020, so takes 3680 into account the rate of inflation as measured by CPI.

2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Median full time wage 24,800 24,839 24,911 25,346 26,109 after tax, in real terms % Change 0.2% 0.3% 1.7% 3.0%

There is no data relating to 2021 as the Earnings Survey is currently being undertaken. As the data above shows, it is positive that people’s earnings have continued to grow in real terms over the last few years; however, it is important not to forget that not everyone, especially in our response to the COVID-19 pandemic, will have experienced a pay rise in recent times and 3685 some people will have unfortunately lost their jobs. However, with the support of the Economic Recovery Group, through a number of initiatives, many businesses have been supported to survive, recover and now grow again, which is and will help people to find new employment.

48. Mobile Library service – Support offered by CoMin

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chief Minister:

What offer of support the Council of Ministers has made in respect of the Mobile Library service; and how the Council of Ministers will determine the amount of financial support it will make available pursuant to that offer?

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Public Libraries are funded through local authority rates. As a charity, the Family and Mobile Library has been in receipt of bona vacantia funds. 3690 Initially Tynwald agreed to fund the Family and Mobile Library Ltd for a period of two years at £125,000 per annum. A further £125,000 was committed to between August 2019 and August 2020 with commitments made by the Family and Mobile Library Ltd to look for a sustainable future funding model.

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3695 Significant help has been provided by Government to the Family and Mobile Library annually in addition to the funding agreed by Tynwald. The building in which the Family Library is housed is owned by the Department of Education, Sport and Culture and leased to the Family Library for a peppercorn rent. The Mobile Library vehicle is also owned by, and leased to the Family and Mobile Library Ltd by the same Department. 3700 In addition to this, fuel is provided by Government as well as ongoing maintenance of the mobile library vehicle which is carried out by the Department of Infrastructure. The Cabinet Office has engaged with the Family and Mobile Library Ltd and encouraged an application to Treasury for bona vacantia funding to ensure continued operation over the next year.

49. CoMin policy and priorities – Government Code section 1.19 central planning assumptions

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chief Minister:

What the Government Code section 1.19 central planning assumptions were when the Council of Ministers most recently determined its policy and priorities?

3705 The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): In respect of Part 1 of the Government Code – The Functions of the Council of Ministers, (d) Determining Policy and Priorities, para 1.19(i) Central Planning Assumptions states:

In order for Government to develop policies and priorities, it needs to have some expectations as to the way in which the Island will develop over the coming years. Council reviews annually a set of central planning assumptions regarding the Island’s national income and population and Government’s finances and manpower. These assumptions are used to assist Departments to plan their activities in a consistent and co-ordinated way and to assist Council itself in assessing Departmental proposals.

Whilst Council has not reviewed a set of central planning assumptions during this administration, Council does have regular visibility of economic data to inform decision-making, 3710 including monthly data on inflation, the labour market (unemployment, jobs and job vacancies) and annually, national income (GDP). Prior to the formation of the Economic Recovery Group (ERG) it also received the Quarterly Economic and Statistical Update report which contained a wide range of economic data. The Council of Ministers also received the population projections which were based on the 3715 2016 Isle of Man Census which contained three migration scenarios for the Island’s population through to 2036.

50. Quarterly economic reports since March 2020 – When to be published

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chief Minister:

When the Council of Ministers will publish quarterly economic reports for periods since March 2020; and if he will make a statement?

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): In response to the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Economic Recovery Group (ERG) was created to monitor the Island’s economy and to fund schemes and initiatives to help the Island’s economy to recover. ______2760 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

3720 The ERG meets monthly, and where required due to urgency of a matter, more regularly, and as part of these monthly meetings, a dashboard relating to the Island’s economy is considered. As much of the data from the quarterly economic report is contained in this dashboard, alongside additional data not previously included, it was deemed to be unnecessary to produce a quarterly report given that more regular, up to date, data was already being produced and published. 3725 The monthly dashboard and the data behind it are available publicly as both a PDF and in an open data format at https://covid19.gov.im/economic-recovery/about-the-economic-recovery- programme/. The reinstatement of the quarterly economic report will be considered when the ERG ceases to meet and whether any other similar committee is established.

51. Planning decisions – Those expected to be made before General Election

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chief Minister:

What planning decisions he expects the Council of Ministers to make before the General Election?

3730 The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): There is currently one application pending which is anticipated to be determined prior to the General Election by the Council of Ministers (‘Council’) under article 16(1)(b) of the Town and Country Planning (Development Procedure) (No 2) Order 2019. The applicant is the Department of Infrastructure. The application number is 21/00026/B, and 3735 the development is for the construction of Steel Truss Pedestrian Bridges, St John’s to Kirk Michael Heritage Trail, Glen Wyllin Bridge, Glen Mooar Bridge and A1 Peel Road Bridge. The application is to be determined by Council as the Department of Environment, Food and Agriculture has an interest in part of the land in question. The application is being dealt with by way of written representations. 3740 The Planning Inspector will be conducting his site visit on 26th July 2021 after which he will prepare his report and recommendation for Council’s determination.

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52. Powers of Chief Minister/Minister of Cabinet Office – Delegation; exercising during dissolution

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chief Minister:

To whom he has delegated his powers as Chief Minister and as Minister of the Cabinet Office in his absence; and whether he will exercise any powers after he ceases to be a Member of the House of Keys in August 2021?

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Since September 2016, I have delegated my powers as Chief Minister during my absence to various Ministers at different times which has included: 3745  Mr Thomas MHK, Minister for Policy and Reform  Mr Cannan MHK, Treasury Minister  Mr Malarkey MHK, Minister for Home Affairs  Mr Skelly MHK, Minister for Enterprise  Mr Ashford MHK, Minister for Health and Social Care 3750 The delegations were necessary to deal with any general and everyday matters, as well as the chairing of meetings of the Council of Ministers. During the periods where the delegations were in place, I was available to deal with urgent matters that required my immediate attention and the delegations did not include a Minister acting on my behalf where there were specific statutory provisions which apply only to actions that the Chief Minister may exercise. 3755 In relation to the second part of the Question, I am able to exercise powers, if required, following the dissolution of the Keys, by virtue of section 4 of the Council of Ministers Act 1990: where the Chief Minister goes out of office after a general election, he or she shall nevertheless remain in office until his or her successor is appointed.

53. Libraries, public records and archives – Policy and responsibility for delivery

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chief Minister:

What the policy on (i) libraries and (ii) public records and archives is; and who is responsible for this policy and its delivery?

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Broad policy on libraries, public records and archives is 3760 established through legislation. Subsequent internal policies may then be set by individual Isle of Man public bodies. The relevant legislation is the Public Records Act 1999, the Public Records Order 2015, the Local Government Consolidation Act 1916 and the Education Act 2001. Local authorities have the power to provide public libraries under powers within the Local 3765 Government Consolidation Act 19161. The Act enables local authorities to acquire land to build a library, provide a library service and carry out management of a library. Responsibility for delivery of policy in relation to public records, and public records that are preserved as archives, falls to three parties: (1) All Isle of Man public bodies have statutory obligations under the Public Records Act 1999 – 3770 sections 3 and 4: (a) To ensure the safe-keeping of public records whilst held by the public body (section 3). An Isle of Man Government Information and Records Management Policy was produced by the Office of Cyber Security and Information Assurance working in

______2762 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

conjunction with the Public Record Office (latest revision January 2021), which 3775 provides overall Government policy in this respect. (b) To ensure that those records that should be retained permanently as archives are selected for permanent preservation, liaising with the Registrar-General, and transferred to the Public Record Office at the latest 25 years after creation (section 3). (c) To inform the Public Record Office of any restrictions on access that should be placed 3780 on the records prior to transfer to the Record Office (in accordance with the closure periods set out in section 4 of the Public Records Act 1999 and the Public Records Order 2015). (2) The Registrar-General is responsible under the Public Records Act 1999 for: (a) Providing advice and guidance to public bodies on the safe-keeping of public records, 3785 the selection of public records for permanent preservation as archives and the transfer of records to the Record Office (section 3); (b) Maintaining the Public Record Office, including suitable staffing, care of records and public access facilities (sections 1 and 4). (3) The Council of Ministers has responsibility under the Public Records Act 1999 for 3790 determining policy on access restrictions that may be placed on public records kept as archives within the Public Record Office through the issuing of additional Orders. The current Order is the Public Records Order 2015. The Registrar-General is responsible for oversight of the Public Record Office as part of the Central Registry. Employees at the Public Record Office act on delegated authority from the 3795 Registrar-General to deliver the Record Office services and responsibilities under the Public Records Act 1999. The selection of public records for permanent preservation and their transfer to the Record Office is covered by the Public Record Office’s Collections and Selection Policy, published on their website https://www.gov.im/media/1363841/isle-of-man-public-record- office-collections-and-selection-policy.pdf 3800 The Public Records Act 1999 does not include provision for the retention of records from private sources as archives. Manx National Heritage maintain an Archives and Library Service and may accept records from private sources to be preserved as historic archives.

1 The Local Government Consolidation Act 1916 (IOM): https://legislation.gov.im/cms/images/LEGISLATION/PRINCIPAL/1916/1916-0002/ LocalGovernmentConsolidationAct1916_2.pdf

54. Government overtime since 2016 – Amount spent per Department

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Chief Minister (Minister for the Cabinet Office):

How much has been spent on overtime in each Department in each year since September 2016?

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): It has not been possible to collate the information requested in the time available due to the research and analysis required. 3805 I will, however, endeavour to provide the information requested by 11th August 2021.

The following additional information was received on 13th August 2021:

It was not possible to collate the information requested in the time available for the sitting due to the research and analysis required. That work is now complete and the information requested is as follows.

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Overtime costs in each Department in each year since September 2016

Overtime Overtime Overtime Overtime Overtime Department 1 Sep 16- 1 Sep 17- 1 Sep 18- 1 Sep 19- 1 Sep 20- 31 Aug 17 31 Aug 18 31 Aug 19 31 Aug 20 31 Jul 21 Cabinet Office £ 81,134 £ 91,689 £ 95,706 £ 110,698 £ 232,223 Department for Enterprise £ 143,438 £ 167,782 £ 175,880 £ 117,393 £ 54,317 Department of Education Sport and Culture £ 109,423 £ 82,785 £ 123,867 £ 85,128 £ 146,423 Department of Environment Food and £ 49,370 £ 46,437 £ 66,315 £ 96,430 £ 135,638 Agriculture Department of Health and Social Care/Manx £ 712,972 £ 732,908 £ 753,402 £ 1,076,569 £ 1,113,812 Care Department of Home Affairs £ 818,352 £ 870,587 £ 1,020,292 £ 793,850 £ 828,540 Department of Infrastructure £ 2,671,072 £ 2,730,054 £ 2,961,850 £ 2,530,952 £ 1,714,153 Treasury £ 37,251 £ 43,173 £ 72,177 £ 56,748 £ 26,806 Total £ 4,623,011 £ 4,765,416 £ 5,269,490 £ 4,867,768 £ 4,251,912

55. Government salaries since 2016 – Cost details per Department

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Chief Minister (Minister for the Cabinet Office):

What the salary costs for each Department have been in each year since September 2016 broken down by: (a) category of employee; (b) grade; (c) number of personnel in each grade; and (d) terms of employment?

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): It has not been possible to collate the information requested in the time available due to the research and analysis required. I will, however, endeavour to provide the information requested by 11th August 2021.

The following additional information was received on 13th August 2021:

It was not possible to collate the information requested in the time available for the sitting due to the research and analysis required. That work is now complete and the information requested is available in the link below.

Salary costs by Department for each year since September 2016

https://www.tynwald.org.im/business/hansard/20002020/t210720_WQ55_Link.pdf

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TREASURY

56. Government finances – Structural financial deficit reduction since 2016; sustainability

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

By how much the structural financial deficit has reduced since the 2016 General Election; whether Government finances are sustainable in the long term; and if he will make a statement?

3810 The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan):

2016-17 2017-18 2018-19 2019-20 2020-21

Gross Income 1,007,640 1,035,743 1,066,843 1,157,874 1,012,672 Less NI (204,882) (208,703) (212,041) (226,842) (224,466) Less Reserve Fund Interest (7,000) (7,733) (7,308) (8,367) (5,449) Operating Income 795,758 819,307 847,494 922,665 782,757

Gross Expenditure 1,059,756 1,060,354 1,082,864 1,138,884 1,194,752 Less NI (201,396) (207,216) (209,330) (210,611) (292,932) Operating Expenditure 858,360 853,138 873,534 928,273 901,820 Operating (Deficit) / Surplus (62,602) (33,831) (26,040) (5,608) (119,063)

NI (Deficit) / Surplus 3,486 1,487 2,711 16,231 (68,466)

Net capital financing 12,306 (24,331) (4,032) (5,994) (3,575)

Structural Surplus (Deficit) / Surplus (46,810) (56,675) (27,361) 4,629 (191,104)

All figures taken from the Detailed Government Accounts (Light Blue Book). The figure for 2019-20 includes the release of a provision against indirect taxation income taken as a matter of prudence. The figure for the year 2020-21 includes the impact of the pandemic on Government finances and are not representative of the longer-term trend. The 3815 Treasury intends to update its medium-term financial projection and part of the Budget for 2022-23.

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57. Local authority rates in 2016 and 2021 – Rateable value of property and amount raised

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

What the rateable value was of all rated properties and how much rates were raised to finance local authorities, in 2016 and in 2021, broken down by local authority area and by domestic and non-domestic ratepayer?

The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): The table at Appendix 1 provides the figures requested for 2016. The table at Appendix 2 provides the figures requested for 2021.

Appendix 1 – 2016

Non- Local Total Domestic Domestic Non- Authority Rateable Rateable Total Billed Domestic Rateable domestic Area Value Value Value Castletown £249,832.00 £31,140.00 £218,692.00 £786,428.80 £650,486.40 £135,942.40 Malew £372,410.00 £168,547.00 £203,863.00 £648,684.75 £294,957.25 £353,727.50 Peel £382,686.00 £312,396.00 £70,290.00 £1,409,332.80 £802,857.72 £606,475.08 Port Erin £294,473.00 £257,990.00 £36,483.00 £839,024.64 £743,011.20 £96,013.44 Ramsey £696,054.00 £545,797.00 £150,257.00 £2,364,534.07 £1,899,373.56 £465,160.51 Arbory £160,240.00 £130,993.00 £29,247.00 £183,673.40 £150,641.95 £33,031.45 Garff £318,898.00 £300,970.00 £17,928.00 £683,527.75 £680,817.23 £2,710.52 Patrick £93,951.00 £83,094.00 £10,857.00 £129,154.20 £116,331.60 £12,822.60 Jurby £58,813.00 £34,977.00 £23,836.00 £89,552.76 £65,729.58 £23,823.18 Ballaugh £76,722.00 £4,278.00 £72,444.00 £140,497.83 £85,209.25 £55,288.58 German £144,055.00 £60,017.00 £84,038.00 £194,819.91 £134,522.61 £60,297.30 Andreas £101,890.00 £94,336.00 £7,554.00 £171,656.81 £163,625.64 £8,031.17 Marown £178,944.00 £166,948.00 £11,996.00 £264,156.00 £240,422.00 £23,734.00 Port St Mary £143,368.00 £129,683.00 £13,685.00 £436,686.48 £396,829.98 £39,856.50 Bride £168,272.00 £23,673.00 £144,599.00 £91,026.14 £10,179.39 £80,846.75 Michael £113,287.00 £102,766.00 £10,521.00 £228,025.19 £215,221.78 £12,803.41 Santon £73,279.00 £53,295.00 £19,984.00 £83,314.05 £61,289.25 £22,024.80 Lezayre £108,995.00 £95,180.00 £13,815.00 £157,052.03 £146,245.80 £10,806.23 Rushen £126,746.00 £114,547.00 £12,199.00 £156,050.20 £148,192.45 £7,857.75

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Appendix 2 – 2021

Non- Local Total Domestic Domestic Non- Authority Rateable Rateable Total billed Domestic Rateable domestic area Value Value Value Castletown £255,368.00 £207,979.00 £47,389.00 £1,012,631.00 £873,817.42 £138,813.58 Malew £392,841.00 £180,775.00 £212,066.00 £760,128.26 £359,742.25 £400,386.01 Peel £415,271.00 £335,826.00 £79,445.00 £1,568,078.30 £1,388,744.80 £179,333.50 Port Erin £300,458.00 £264,183.00 £36,275.00 £937,878.52 £818,967.30 £118,911.22 Ramsey £724,868.00 £574,522.00 £150,346.00 £2,936,544.38 £2,361,285.40 £575,258.98 Arbory £191,469.00 £140,347.00 £51,122.00 £259,505.68 £182,451.10 £77,054.58 Garff £323,855.00 £305,758.00 £18,097.00 £778,402.96 £737,298.32 £41,104.64 Patrick £96,230.00 £85,713.00 £10,517.00 £178,740.60 £150,854.88 £27,885.72 Jurby £58,754.00 £35,987.00 £22,767.00 £108,156.52 £80,999.82 £27,156.70 Ballaugh £78,006.00 £75,365.00 £2,641.00 £168,074.31 £164,548.55 £3,525.76 German £166,671.00 £62,516.00 £104,155.00 £279,906.27 £172,098.80 £107,807.47 Andreas £102,955.00 £95,341.00 £7,614.00 £218,044.19 £142,528.74 £75,515.45 Marown £183,451.00 £171,659.00 £11,792.00 £294,106.12 £281,520.76 £12,585.36 Port St Mary £144,365.00 £131,480.00 £12,885.00 £498,616.30 £454,920.80 £43,695.50 Bride £204,488.00 £24,129.00 £180,359.00 £149,626.94 £37,492.35 £112,134.59 Michael £115,790.00 £104,901.00 £10,889.00 £271,632.07 £255,380.10 £16,251.97 Santon £73,755.00 £54,783.00 £18,972.00 £94,313.19 £70,670.07 £23,643.12 Lezayre £112,486.00 £98,426.00 £14,060.00 £203,772.84 £183,905.34 £19,867.50 Rushen £144,146.00 £131,477.00 £12,669.00 £194,557.00 £178,767.00 £15,790.00

58. Local authority rate and waste charge – Average paid by household and area in 2016 and 2021

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

What the average local authority rate and waste charge paid by a household in each local authority area in 2016 and in 2021 was; and how many rated properties there were in each local authority in each of those years?

3820 The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan):

2021 2016 Average LA Average Average LA Average Local No of No of Rate Refuse Rate Refuse Authority Households Households Remand Rates Demand rates Andreas 665 £169.00 £135.00 659 £146.00 £102.00 Arbory and Rushen 1813 £237.00 n/a 1637 £180.00 n/a Ballaugh 493 £183.00 £150.00 489 £174.00 £106.00 Bride 204 £71.00 £127.00 203 £50.00 £89.00 German 471 £123.00 £237.00 464 £106.00 £165.00 Jurby 294 £146.00 £130.00 289 £129.00 £92.00 Lezayre 572 £167.00 £163.00 563 £142.00 £114.00

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Garff 1998 £219.00 £161.00 1992 £183.00 £140.00 Malew 1165 £308.00 n/a 1103 £267.00 n/a Marown 958 £285.00 n/a 935 £267.00 n/a Patrick 740 £220.00 n/a 713 £163.00 n/a Santon 331 £213.00 n/a 326 £188.00 n/a Castletown 1987 £318.00 £145.00 1712 £380.00 n/a Peel 2682 £322.00 £196.00 2548 £315.00 £170.00 Ramsey 4325 £551.00 n/a 4129 £460.00 n/a Michael 858 £176.00 £165.00 724 £141.00 £101.00 Port Erin 1943 £429.00 n/a 1934 £384.00 n/a Port St Mary 1060 £432.00 n/a 1053 £376.00 n/a

The ‘not applicable’ figures are shown because those local authorities do not identify refuse charges separately.

59. Town and village regeneration schemes – Funding committed since 2019

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

How much funding has been committed since September 2019 to individual town and village regeneration schemes, broken down by constituency; and what the expected start and completion date for each scheme is?

The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): The Town and Village Regeneration Scheme was established in 2019 and provides financial assistance to commercial premises and civic amenity 3825 projects within designated town planning zones, with the aim of improving the appearance and enjoyment of the areas and encouraging footfall. The Treasury approved funding of £250,000 per annum for a four-year period commencing 1st December 2019. The Scheme is currently administered by the Department for Enterprise. Following advice from the Economic Recovery Group, in October 2020 the funding cap per 3830 project was increased from £10,000 to £25,000, and some eligibility criteria were widened, including permitting applications from any commercial property accessible by public highway. The purpose of these changes was to help aid the local economy’s recovery from the pandemic, particularly the construction sector, as well as furthering the primary intentions and benefits of the Scheme. A budget of £1,000,000 was provided, with applications being accepted under this 3835 widened eligibility until 31st October 2021. The information supplied below is accurate as of 14th July 2021. For the purposes of this Answer, ‘committed’ is defined as projects which have successfully applied for funding from the Department, whether or not those projects have been completed and their funding claimed. When making an application applicants must supply a completed application form, three 3840 quotes from local contractors for each area of work (i.e. scaffolders, painters and decorators, etc.), and images of the property the application relates to. Applicants are expected to select the lowest quotes provided. Financial support of up to 50% of the cost of the project is available, currently capped at £25,000 as explained above. Since September 2019, a total 20 applications have been approved; 19 applications are via the 3845 Department budget. One application has been approved via the ERG budget. The funding committed totals £100,522.

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Of the 19 applications via the Department budget, 14 projects have been completed and £72,350 in funding has been claimed. The application approved via the ERG budget is still ongoing. Of the six projects still ongoing, all were projected to be already completed at the time of 3850 application. Delays have been common as a result of the disruption caused by the various lockdowns and consequent backlog of work the construction industry is currently working through. It is expected all six projects will be completed within the next three months. Of the 20 applications, the location of properties within the constituencies for the House of Keys is broken down as follows: 3855  12 are in Douglas East  one application relates to an amenity project in Douglas and so does not sit within a constituency;  three are in Glenfaba and Peel;  two are in Garff; 3860  one is in Rushen; and  one is in Ayre & Michael.

The Department does not list businesses who have received payments to protect the commercial interests of the supported businesses, therefore supplying list of individual projects is not possible.

POLICY AND REFORM

60. Minimum and living wage – Estimated numbers earning both or between

The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform:

How many people were estimated to be earning (a) the minimum wage, (b) between the minimum and living wage, and (c) the living wage for the latest year where figures are available?

3865 The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Harmer): The latest Earnings Survey report was published in April 2021 and relates to the year 2020. All figures given below are based on this Survey. The Living Wage for 2020 that was in effect at the time of the Survey was £10.19 per hour, whilst the minimum wage that was in effect was £6.15 for those under 18 and £8.25 for those 3870 aged 18 and over. There were no individuals in 2020 being paid at exactly living wage; 2.5% of individuals were being paid at the minimum wage, and 13.5% of individuals were being paid between the two rates.

61. Economically active population and ITIP-paying businesses – Growth since 2016

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform:

By how much the (a) economically active population and (b) number of businesses registered to pay ITIP have grown since the 2016 General Election; whether opportunities for people have improved; and if he will make a statement? ______2769 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Harmer): The estimated economically active population had been increasing up until the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic where, as 3875 expected, the number of economically active people reduced. It has, however, already begun to recover since then, whilst not yet having recovered to its peak in September 2019.

Estimated Number of Economically businesses Quarter ending Active registered to pay Population ITIP September 2016 43,099 4,437 September 2017 43,474 4,531 September 2018 43,738 4,552 September 2019 44,714 4,713 September 2020 44,189 4,885 June 2021 44,357 5,062

However, whilst the economically active population is slightly lower than the peak prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, the Economic Recovery Group has offered a wide range of new opportunities for people of all ages and has supported a wide range of businesses. For example, the Our People 3880 work stream was tasked with creating 1,000 training, education or work placement opportunities and has achieved 1,308 such places for people of all ages and backgrounds to get back into work, improve their skills or continue with their education.

ENTERPRISE

62. Ultrafast broadband – Premises passed by/connected; cause of differences

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Minister for Enterprise:

What proportion of premises have been (a) passed by and (b) connected to ultrafast broadband (i) inside and (ii) outside the National Broadband Plan intervention zones; and what the causes are of any significant differences in these proportions?

The Minister for Enterprise (Mr Quayle): The contract to deliver the National Broadband Plan (NBP) was signed with Manx Telecom in July 2020. We are therefore approaching completion of 3885 the first year’s activity. The current schedule of works will see the programme pass 75% of premises by the end of year 3 and 99% by the end of year 4. There is a Programme for Government target of passing 50% by the end of July, which is currently on track to be achieved. 3890 In terms of current figures: (a) as of the end of June 2021 the NBP has passed: (i) Intervention Zone: 3,338 (ii) Non-Intervention Zone: 17,240 This equates to 20,578 premises in total or 48.4% (on a basis of 42,500 premises – business and residential).

(b) as of the end of June 2021 the NBP has connected: 3895 (iii) Intervention Zone: 577 connected, 494 pending (iv) Non-Intervention Zone: 5,099 connected, 1322 pending This equates to a conversion rate of 27.6% connected and 36.4% connected and pending.

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The Department is currently working with a local market research company – The Blue Island Guys – to understand what the determining factors are for a resident or business to choose to connect to the new fibre network. 3900 The analysis will help support the development of policy in this area going forward. Whilst we would not wish to presuppose the outcome of the research, causes in the differences between the connections statistics in each zone could be (but not limited to):  Perceived increase in cost for the service;  Satisfaction with current service; 3905  Lack of understanding of the products on offer and the benefits fibre can bring over traditional copper services;  Service currently unavailable;  Training issue in using such technologies;  Cost of bringing the network across private curtilages. 3910 The Department will provide additional information in this regard upon completion of the report.

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND AGRICULTURE

63. Planning enforcement actions – Awareness raising, compliance promotion and publishing notices

The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture:

What procedures are in place to raise awareness of planning enforcement actions and promote compliance with planning law; and why planning enforcement notices are not routinely published?

The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Boot): There are no formal procedures in place to raise awareness of specific planning enforcement actions. In terms of raising awareness to promote compliance with planning law; the website has been 3915 reviewed and provides a variety of advice on what does and does not require planning approval. The Department offers a free service to give advice, including a duty planner; and officers visit local authorities to provide advice on planning and give information in relation to enforcement. In the past, publications such as Manx Tales was used to raise the profile of planning and enforcement by having a column within it. There is the intention to make greater use of social 3920 media to assist the public in understanding what does and does not need planning approval. Planning enforcement is a high-volume, demand-based service and resources are limited. As a consequence, targeted enforcement action is very important. It is accepted that raising awareness of planning management and enforcement could help to reduce unauthorised works and increase public confidence in the service. However, there is a 3925 balance to be struck between maintaining the confidence of both the complainant and the perpetrator, remaining within GDPR requirements and raising awareness. Whilst under the Town and Country Planning (Registers) Regulations 2005 there is a requirement for the Department to retain a register of enforcement notices, stop notices and registered building enforcement notices that are served and to make that register available to the 3930 public upon request, the Department will have satisfied that obligation by making any part of it available. There is no legal obligation to publish Planning Enforcement Notices.

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Court judgments are available online and court cases are often reported upon in local newspapers.

64. DEFA inspectorate roles in 2011, 2016 and 2021 – Numbers by inspectorate

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture:

How many inspectorate roles existed in 2011, 2016 and 2021 in (a) environmental protection, (b) environmental or public health, (c) food safety, and (d) health and safety at work; what the reasons are for any changes in these numbers; and if he will make a statement?

3935 The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Boot): I have set out a table below which shows the number of officers working in each of the areas requested and narrative around reasons for the change in these numbers.

Year FTE Reason Roles Health and Safety at Work 2011 6 The Health and Safety at Work Inspectorate was 1 x Acting Chief Inspector within DoLGE then transferred to the DoI. 4 x Senior Inspectors (SEO) 1 x Admin officer (EO) 2016 2 4 x Senior posts retired between 2011 and 1 x Senior Inspector (SEO) 2013. 1 x Inspector (HEO) 1 x HEO Inspector recruited in 2012. 1 x HEO Inspector recruited in 2013. HSWI transferred to DEFA from DOI in July 2014. 2014 - Chief Inspector role lost to take up post of Director of Environment, Safety and Health and admin post deleted upon transfer to DEFA. Senior Inspector role created appointed from within team in 2016. 2021 4.1 1 x HEO inspector recruited in 2017 1 x Head of Health and safety 1 x Senior Inspector (SEO) 1 x part time Inspector recruited in 2018 (0.5 1.5 x Inspectors (FTE) (HEO) FTE) 0.6 x Support Inspector (EO) Head of HSWI and Senior Inspector posts created in 2019, recruited from within the team. 1 x 0.6 FTE Support Inspector recruited (EO) Environmental Health Unit and Environmental Protection 2011 20 EH moved to DEFA in 2010 from DoLGE 1 x EHO/Food Safety Manager 1 x EHO/Director of Environmental Health – also 3 x EHOs came to the Department overseeing 3 teams – 1 x Technical Officer Food safety, Housing and Environmental 2 Meat Hygiene Inspectors Protection (EPU). 1 X EHO/ Housing 2 x EHOs 1x Public Health Officer 6 x Pest control Officers

1 X EPU manager 3 x Environmental protection officer 2016 18 Following a number of retirements the 1 x EPU manager Environmental Health Directorate structure was 3 x EPU officers ______2772 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

reviewed and a management post reduced with the amalgamation of the food and housing 1 x EHO/Environmental Health teams resulting in a reduction in head count. Team Manager The structure of the Environmental Health Unit 7 x EHOs was reviewed and qualified officers began a 4 x Pest control officers programme of external and peer training to 3 x Meat hygiene inspectors enable them to undertake each of the requisite areas of Environmental Health. This is a continual programme of professional development and is in line with the requirements to be registered as a Chartered Practitioner with the Chartered Institute of Environmental Health. Training was introduced to develop the role of the Meat Hygiene Inspectors to Environmental Health Technicians to broaden the scope of their work carrying out sampling for Environmental Health, Environmental Protection and Animal Health. 2021 EPU - 3 Following a restructure of DEFA in 2018 EPU 1x Head of EPU EH - 15 was moved into the newly formed Environment 2x EP Officer Directorate and Environmental Health into the Regulation Directorate. The Officer head count 1x Head of Env Health once again changed. 2 x Senior EHO A Regulation Director position was made 4 x EHO covering a much wider portfolio to include: 1 x Technical Officer Animal Health, Government Laboratory, Office 1 x Trainee EHO of Fair Trading, Environmental Health, Health 3x Pest control officer and Safety at Work Inspectorate, Road 3 x Meat Hygiene Transport licensing Committee and Contact Inspectors/Environmental Health Tracing. Technicians. Previous manager posts became Heads of respective units: Head of Environmental Health, Health and Safety at Work Inspectorate, Office of Fair Trading. The EH unit structure was changed again in 2021 with the introduction of 2 Senior EHO posts to help with the increase in service demand due to Official Controls being introduced to facilitate agri-food trade post Brexit. A Trainee EHO post was filled in 2018 to help with succession management. Pest control officer numbers were reduced following further retirements with measures put in place to cover peaks in demand. EPU currently have 1 vacant post.

Statement Over the three periods that data has been requested there have been changes in Departments 3940 and reporting lines as well as proactive initiatives to cross skill qualified officers to provide an efficient and responsive public service and provide resilience in each of the respective regulatory roles: for instance, all of the Environmental Health Officers being qualified and trained to fulfil inspections in health and safety (in certain premises), food hygiene, housing and public health; our Authorised Meat Inspectors being trained to undertake sampling for other areas of the 3945 Directorate and the wider Department, including sampling for food hygiene, veterinary medicine residues, bathing water, etc.; the Health and Safety at Work Inspectorate working closely and providing technical support for Environmental Health, Animal Health and Trading Standards when required.

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There have been additional workloads imposed on the Department as a result of the UK leaving 3950 the European Union and this continues following transition, as negotiations between the UK Government and the European Commission continue. This has impacted on all of the regulatory teams as new official controls are introduced by other jurisdictions. The relationship that the Isle of Man has with the UK for the purposes of trade with them, Europe and the rest of the world requires a high level of compliance in all my Department’s regulatory areas. This will require 3955 resources and competencies in relevant regulatory areas to be maintained, possibly increased and, as negotiations progress, under continuous review.

HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE

65. Cancer screening – Numbers screened and cancers detected in last 10 years

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

How many people (a) were screened for cancer and (b) had cancer detected by the screening service, broken down by stage of cancer when detected, in each of the last 10 years?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): The Isle of Man’s Cancer Screening Programmes (Bowel/Breast/Cervical) governance and reporting structures are currently under review. The quality of the data is currently part of this review, with a move to ensure more robust 3960 data in line with the UK NHS standards for data reporting for screening. The information currently available to answer the questions raised is as follows.

For bowel cancer screening:

Intermediate- Abnormal – High-risk Low-Risk No Year Cancer Risk Abnormal Procedure Normal Adenoma Adenoma Result Adenoma Incomplete 2011-12 1 1 4 - 21 - 1 - 2012-13 7 2 14 4 27 4 5 3 2013-14 4 7 9 7 12 1 5 - 2014-15 8 3 16 17 35 4 9 2 2015-16 1 9 17 16 32 7 2 2 2016-17 5 7 13 12 39 4 5 - 2017-18 8 7 4 10 31 1 3 1 2018-19 9 4 14 7 22 4 6 - 2019-20 9 4 9 10 27 1 2 2 2020-21 3 5 6 2 10 1 1 -

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To summarise, an average of six bowel cancers per year have been detected by screening.

For breast cancer screening:

Date Invited Screened Cancers 2010-11 5726 4352 39 2011-12 6048 4647 21 2012-13 6185 4709 30 2013-14 6296 4982 43 2014-15 6204 4800 29 2015-16 6520 5114 33 2016-17 6192 4866 31 2017-18 6841 5341 41 2018-19 6180 4989 43 2019-20 6244 4951 28

To summarise, an average of 34 breast cancers per year have been detected by screening.

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For cervical cancer screening:

Unknown/ Borderline Mild Moderate Severe Severe/ Year Tests Inadequate Neg Glandular HPV Neg Changes Dyskaryosis Dyskaryosis Dyskaryosis Invasive

2011-12 5,726 - 132 5,188 237 123 24 21 0 1

2012-13 6,293 53 141 5,455 423 106 56 47 5 7

2013-14 6,237 804 173 5,161 1 2 26 68 1 1

2014-15 5,285 403 127 4,668 1 0 21 57 2 6

2015-16 4,993 370 105 4,432 0 0 29 50 2 5

2016-17 5,197 326 69 4,744 0 0 14 40 0 4

2017-18 4,900 321 85 4,444 0 0 19 28 1 2

2018-19 5,377 3,377 67 1,823 16 57 17 18 0 2

2019-20 5,153 4,523 26 398 50 102 29 24 0 1

2020-21 4,404 3,741 50 436 66 69 25 16 1 0

Staging data broken down by source of referral data is not available. 3965 Screening services have been affected by the COVID-19 pandemic from 2020 onwards.

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66. Cataract operations at Noble’s – Average per session in last six months; improvements identified

The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

How many cataract operations were performed in a session at Noble’s Hospital on average in the last six months; what improvements he has identified for increasing this since his Answer on 15th December 2020; and when they will be delivered?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): From 1st January 2021 to 30th June 2021, 267 cataract procedures were done at Noble’s Hospital, which averages 2.5 cases per session; however, cataract services were suspended for one month, three weeks as the 3970 hospital was escalated due to COVID inpatient demand. This remains less than the 8 per list that is recommended by NHS Improvement’s Getting It Right First Time programme and remains one of the main reason why there continues to be a significant waiting list within ophthalmology, which is currently 1,211 patients with an average wait of just under one year. As part of the Restoration and Recovery Business Case that has recently been approved by 3975 Treasury to help Manx Care significantly reduce the backlog that has been accrued during the COVID-19 pandemic, funding has been allocated for an off-Island team to come across every weekend to undertake additional waiting list initiatives to help reduce the waiting list backlog rapidly over the next six months. The visiting team, staffed by specialist cataract surgeons working alongside with theatre nurses, will be undertaking 18 cataracts per day within one of our operating 3980 theatres and it anticipated that most of the waiting list backlog will be treated by the end of the financial year. Eye Care continues to be a priority within the Health and Care Transformation Programme and a business case to seek approval for a significant change in the way that eye care services are delivered on island is to go to the Transformation Board in August which will seek to achieve the 3985 same levels of productivity within both outpatient and inpatient ophthalmology services that is recommended by NHS Improvement and achieved in most ophthalmology services in the UK.

67. GP contract – Non-financial provisions

The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

If he will publish the non-financial provisions of the GP contract?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): Manx Care will be very happy to publish the GP contract in its entirety. This will show the non-financial provisions of the GP contract. The contract will be pinned to the GP web page at www.gov.im/doctors by the end of July. 3990 Manx Care is also working to update the format of its current data sets, and particularly in respect of Primary Care they will also be in a format that can be published. The data will show how GP surgeries are complying with the provision of their contract.

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68. Corrin Home and alternative residential care facilities – Cost difference of subsidy per room

The Hon. Member of the Council, Mrs Lord-Brennan, to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

What the cost difference per room has been between subsidising care costs at the Corrin Home and subsidising alternative residential care facilities for relocated residents; what this equates to over 12 months; and what the difference in room charges is?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): The Tynwald-approved Charging Regulations set out the charges for care applicable to non-nursing residential services directly 3995 provided by Manx Care. The Department of Health and Social Care does not have any control over the care home fees set by private sector providers, with the exception of Salisbury Street Care Home (Nursing) where it formally commissions 40 beds at the relevant approved rate. As a private care operator, the Corrin Memorial Home provided residential rather than nursing care, and the fees for each service user were subject to individually negotiated contractual 4000 agreements. The Corrin’s website stated that prices started at £548.20 per week, but individual costs will have varied and would have reflected room size amongst other considerations. In respect of the differential costs arising from relocation to an alternative private sector care provider, these details will be known only to the service users and/or their family due to the contractual relationship between the provider and the commissioning party. The DHSC will have 4005 had no direct involvement in the relevant financial arrangements. For service users receiving income support, Social Security are currently reassessing their entitlement based on their new circumstances. The outcome will depend on whether they have entered nursing or residential care. In instances where the service user has moved to a residential care setting, it is most likely that 4010 they will continue to receive the same amount of income support as previously. This is because the fee for the Corrin Home was above the maximum allowable for income support purposes, and all other residential homes (including DHSC operated homes) charge at least the maximum allowable for income support. Where a service user has relocated to a nursing home (including Salisbury Street) it is likely 4015 that their income support entitlement will have increased. This is because nursing homes charge fees which are greater than those charged by residential homes, and the maximum that is allowable for income support purposes towards nursing home fees is greater than that allowed for residential care (£826.00pw v. £481.04pw). It is also possible that a service user may not have qualified for income support whilst at the 4020 Corrin Home, but now qualifies due to their having to meet increased fees for a nursing home. Social Security have confirmed that they will do re-assessments in each case as soon as they receive the relevant paperwork.

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69. Corrin Home residents – Relocation locations

The Hon. Member of the Council, Mrs Lord-Brennan, to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

To which locations Corrin Home residents have been relocated?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): Following the formal announcement by the Corrin Home that they were to surrender their registration as a Care Home, Manx Care 4025 undertook a range of formal assessments on all of the Corrin Home residents. As an outcome to those assessments the residents were supported in moving to a number of establishments across the Island including Care Homes directly operated by Manx Care and Care Homes in the private sector. In the vast majority of cases resident were moved according to their preferred location which 4030 included Care Homes in Peel, Ramsey, Douglas and Port St Mary. In total 21 residents were relocated 14 moving into Care Homes directly operated by Manx Care and seven into the private sector.

70. Urgent referral prioritisation – Advice to GPs; communicating with patients

The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

How GPs are advised of the prioritisation of urgent referrals; and where responsibility lies to communicate with the patient over the expected time before treatment?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mr Ashford): On every referral made by GPs into secondary care services, the GP will indicate the level of urgency of referral – this is normally 4035 categorised as:  Cancer Referral – standard is for patients to be seen within two weeks  Urgent Referral – standard is for patients to be seen within six weeks  Routine

Within Hospital Services, a policy is in place to never downgrade a cancer referral and this is 4040 strictly adhered to. Urgent referrals can only be downgraded to routine if there is dialogue between the GP and Consultant receiving the referral – there is a mechanism in place for hospital management to respond to incidents where downgrades take place within prior agreement however this has not been enacted for some time. The Primary Care Group circulates waiting times to GPs on a weekly basis so they can provide 4045 information to patients should they wish to know the waiting time, however Manx Care recognises the quality and presentation of this data is not to the standard expected, so the Manx Care team are currently working on improving this so GPs can provide more accurate information to patients. In addition Manx Care intends to reinstate the provision of waiting list information on their website once improvements to data quality and presentation are made.

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JUSTICE AND HOME AFFAIRS

71. Police and ambulance station in Malew – Plans for tree replanting

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Justice and Home Affairs:

What plans there are for replanting to supplement the remaining trees and bushes at the joint police and ambulance station in Malew; and if he will make a statement?

4050 The Minister for Justice and Home Affairs (Mr Cregeen): The Department has a proposed planting scheme for the area surrounding Malew Fire and Ambulance Station and are currently awaiting further quotations for carrying out the planting, in line with Financial Regulations. It is anticipated that the planting scheme will commence in the final quarter of 2021 and ongoing maintenance of the grounds will fall under the Department of Infrastructure’s Public 4055 Estates and Housing.

72. Review of regulation of legal services – Progress appointing independent Chair

The Hon. Member of the Council, Mrs Poole-Wilson, to ask the Minister for Justice and Home Affairs:

What progress he has made since 15th June 2021 towards appointing an independent Chair to review the regulation of legal services pursuant to the resolution of April 2021?

The Minister for Justice and Home Affairs (Mr Cregeen): I am pleased that significant progress has been made in the last month toward appointing an Independent Chair pursuant to the resolution of April 2021. Nine potential candidates were identified, and Terms of Reference were sent to those 4060 candidates. Informal discussions took place with those candidates who responded to answer any queries and discuss timescales for the work. The Council of Ministers’ Committee for Justice has shortlisted four of the nine candidates on a high level assessment of cost and quality and the Committee hopes to meet each candidate before the middle of August for a further discussion prior to final selection. 4065 The Cabinet Office is responsible for the commissioning and management of the Review and will appoint an Independent Chair once final details are confirmed by the Committee and discussions with Treasury have concluded.

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INFRASTRUCTURE

73. St Mark’s planters – Brief to private consultants

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

If he will publish the brief to the private consultants regarding the planters in St Mark’s; what the cost was of the report; and when will it be completed?

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): Please see below the brief to the private consultants regarding the planters in St Mark’s:

4070 St Mark’s – Traffic Calming Requests from political Members and residents of St Mark’s were received to improve the traffic management within the village. St Marks is a rural village with approximately 20 dwellings set within a 30-mph speed limit. There are no footpaths either side of the carriageway, and daily vehicle traffic of approximately 4075 3,000 vehicles on the A26 (30-mph limit). There is a crossroads within St Mark’s which carries heavy commuter traffic from the Braaid Road. The B30 carries lower volume of vehicles. Traffic data has shown that the 85 percentile of vehicle speeds are 34.30 mph southbound and 33.80 mph northbound. However, there are a percentage of vehicles that excessively speed through the village, and there is a wish to address speeding, and excessive speed in particular. 4080 We are seeking ideas and ultimately a design for traffic calming features that will help reduce speeds, and incorporate a layout of street furniture that will add character to the village. The Department of Infrastructure will provide the consultant with:  Existing traffic orders;  Plans showing the extent of the signed 30mph limit; 4085  Local access to the MAAP Collison database;  Local access to speed and volumetric traffic data;  DoI policy and guidance on road safety assessments;  A video and photographs of the length of road in question;  An initial plan of the area showing:-those roads that currently have a 30mph limit and 4090 are considered self-enforcing -those roads that currently have a 30mph limit and are considered NOT self-enforcing. The consultant will be required to:  Review the information made available (see above);  Take part in an initial ‘Teams meeting’ to discuss background, ideas, constraints; 4095  Produce a shortlist of ideas for consideration and discussion;  Produce an outline design for a preferred solution. This is a scoping document, so there is no cost associated with it yet. The consultant will come back with a fee proposal and at that point the Department will decide if it proceeds or not depending on cost and other priorities in the Department. 4100 There is currently no construction plan or cost associated with St Mark’s.

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74. Malew Street and Arbory Street – Falls in the last five years

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

How many people have reported falls in each of the last five years on the soon-to-be-replaced paving in (a) Malew Street and (b) Arbory Street; how much compensation was paid, broken down by year and street; and how many people received payments?

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): The number of falls reported to the Department over the past five years in Malew Street and Arbory Street, Castletown is as follows:

Year Malew Street Arbory Street 2016 1 0 2017 0 0 2018 0 0 2019 2 3 2020 1 1

Claims against the Department are rarely successful. However, compensation to a total of £8,256 has been paid over a five-year period. All of this relates to Malew Street. 4105 Due to the very low incidences, the Department is unable to specify the year of any successful claims as this may enable those involved to be identified.

75. Automatic Number Plate Recognition – Vehicles stopped in 2021

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

How many vehicles were stopped using Automatic Number Plate Recognition in each month of 2021 and found to be (a) not taxed; (b) displaying UK plates; and (c) in breach of other regulations?

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): The Department is only permitted to use Automatic Number Plate Recognition technology to identify those Manx registered vehicles that are recorded as being untaxed. 4110 Enforcement of unregistered vehicles (UK and others) is currently undertaken by the Police, including the breach of other regulations. Vehicles are not stopped when identified as being untaxed. Letters are sent to the owners of those vehicles identified as not taxed. The following number of vehicles identified as being untaxed in each month of 2021:

Month No. of untaxed vehicles January 14 February 135 March 12 April 103 May 99 June 30 ______2782 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

76. Confederation of Passenger Transport Code steering group – Establishment, members and terms of reference

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

Whether a steering group has been set up pursuant to the resolution of 21st April 2021 relating to the Confederation of Passenger Transport Code; and if he will publish its membership and terms of reference?

4115 The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): The first meeting of the Bus Vannin Accessibility Steering Group took place on 10th June 2021. Its members are the political Member for Transport Services, the Equality Champion, and the Transport Services Passenger Representatives. The Terms of Reference for the Group have been drafted and will be formally agreed at the next meeting. Once this has taken place, the Terms of Reference will be published. 4120 The draft Terms of Reference provide for additional members to be added to the Group as and when required, in order to represent the views of service users and people with disabilities.

77. Silverburn Drive – New drainage

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

When new drainage will be provided on the Silverburn Drive; and if he will make a statement?

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): The Department does not have any plans for a new drainage system on Silverburn Drive. The Department is aware that after heavy rain, the rainwater pools in some locations on 4125 Silverburn Drive but does not consider there to be a flooding issue. Flood risk and the mitigation of flood risk is taken seriously by the Department; however, due to limited resources it must prioritise its programme of works to those areas that are most at risk of flooding. This currently does not include Silverburn Drive.

78. Publicly owned school sites – Spending in past five years by area

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

How much has been spent on each publicly owned school site in each of the past five years on (a) structural work, (b) classroom refurbishment, (c) creation of new learning space, (d) creation of new office space, (e) creation of multi-purpose use, (f) other external work and (g) other internal work?

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): The Department carries out all repair and 4130 maintenance for school premises and does not record spend in the individual categories requested. The information we have for the last five years’ expenditure is as set out in the tables below:

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Table 78A Breakdown of Minor Capital spend by year and school – this reflects expenditure on minor capital projects which will include a mixture of the work categories requested.

Education Minor Capital Expenditure 2020-21 2019-20 2018-19 2017-18 2016-17 Arbory 2,208 Ashley Hill 26,908 40,062 38,433 Ballacottier 4,589 15,061 37,964 Ballakermeen High School 179,245 298,605 155,571 204,397 439,811 Ballaquayle 37,255 Ballasalla 94,239 52,696 Ballaugh 37,160 Braddan 8,288 Bride 20,152 Castle Rushen 21,654 8,803 7,725 439,124 Cronk y Berry 4,805 32,198 25,782 Foxdale 420 81 41,943 90,284 Jurby 66,892 13,122 42,130 Laxey 94,472 13,335 Manor Park 16,129 18,245 34,686 22,170 Marown 10,385 5,915 29,304 Michael 54,774 Onchan 129,872 10,370 Peel Clothworkers 145,990 51,799 29,906 45,047 Port St Mary 40,952 26,121 102,630 Queen Elizabeth II High School 345,076 250,713 41,313 476,981 128,180 Rushen 100,378 32,001 Santon 40,201 5,374 St John’s Old 31,600 St Mary’s 5,319 391,605 258,047 54,304 St Ninian’s High School Sulby 62 43,341 9,466 129,592 SYJ Murray’s Road 110 64,871 2,374 1,552 67,901 Victoria Road 215,333 Willaston 4,431 64,165 5,644 1,466,708 1,596,133 685,933 1,059,090 1,331,779 Expenditure not classified by property Various schools – Lighting Upgrades 24,107 97,418 Phase 1 Primary 145 25,009 7,341 Secondary 966 1,710 1,768 40,438 Grand total all expenditure 1,467,674 1,597,988 735,049 1,158,276 1,379,558

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Table 278B Breakdown of Revenue Expenditure by year and school – this reflects expenditure on revenue projects which will include a mixture of the categories referred to as well as all maintenance and statutory compliance works.

Education Revenue Expenditure Sum of Sum of Amount 2020-21 2019-20 2018-19 2017-18 2016-17 Property Anagh Coar Primary School 10,621 15,001 13,956 17,295 12,841 Andreas School 24,548 23,488 22,573 42,177 18,368 Arbory School 37,890 62,959 28,797 26,441 40,504 Ashley Hill School 56,651 34,477 56,813 51,178 48,488 Ballacottier School 74,991 32,146 61,194 35,553 32,210 Ballakermeen High School 266,519 282,216 259,582 347,239 204,892 Ballasalla Primary School 50,022 24,093 22,152 47,754 22,201 Ballaugh School 21,536 17,796 14,721 15,008 16,296 Braddan School 50,585 17,597 29,219 15,031 33,486 Bride School (Closed) 3,937 3,633 2,016 1,943 3,254 Bunscoill Ghaelgagh 15,871 15,978 4,317 16,556 25,319 Bunscoill Rhumsaa Infants (Auldyn) 41,942 53,153 21,319 31,928 26,535 Bunscoill Rhumsaa Junior (Ree Gorree) 25,517 23,300 43,426 22,538 19,283 Castle Rushen High School 133,109 176,129 174,287 203,158 163,939 Cronk y Berry School 114,275 59,762 117,454 33,248 42,423 Dhoon School 17,459 13,797 5,640 16,593 7,580 Foxdale School 26,519 21,741 33,066 21,166 21,750 HBN Ballacloan (Closed) 4,918 3,407 5,405 4,234 2,173 HBN Fairfield (Closed) 6,156 3,412 6,908 16,061 2,210 Henry Bloom Noble School 13,951 13,802 7,579 13,410 6,465 Jurby School 25,900 24,067 23,649 22,764 24,777 Kewaigue School 16,691 10,687 29,090 27,353 19,669 Laxey School 33,005 53,491 28,240 26,355 20,737 Manor Park School 44,351 20,977 16,004 40,727 38,979 Marown Language Centre 20,479 17,946 3,584 6,453 9,926 Marown School 54,772 47,050 44,856 21,623 79,293 Michael Primary School 44,243 31,151 53,928 26,548 14,868 Onchan School 55,495 23,374 39,447 30,930 30,273 Peel Clothworkers School 60,856 79,288 54,118 39,380 80,860 Queen Elizabeth II High School 166,105 161,729 201,019 217,676 163,728 Ramsey Grammar School (East) 81,182 141,114 103,973 74,105 63,552 Ramsey Grammar School (West) 135,329 151,178 150,596 195,628 174,429 Rushen Primary School 33,497 49,384 91,511 26,402 45,011 Santon Old School 53,741 13,737 22,726 23,321 15,114 Scoill Phurt Le Moirrey 72,963 28,884 55,998 82,071 30,357 Scoill Vallajeelt 29,318 23,576 38,896 54,280 61,163 Scoill Yn Jubilee Infants (Ballaquayle) 18,020 20,774 44,198 24,738 39,396 Scoill Yn Jubilee Juniors (Murrays Road) 9,910 20,673 68,583 14,012 19,249 St Johns Primary School 30,267 30,274 35,218 30,236 20,026 St Mary’s School 19,955 24,496 24,106 36,080 23,638 St Ninian’s High School 144,566 158,005 171,610 136,453 114,069 St Ninian’s Lower School (Bemahague) 102,456 145,228 82,362 77,268 84,015 St Thomas’ School (Closed) 1,050 3,443 5,165 17,718 13,329 Sulby Primary School 14,769 36,073 25,749 14,320 26,952 Victoria Road School 35,819 15,327 19,984 21,789 40,444 Willaston Primary School 42,773 46,164 67,438 43,052 36,295 Glencrutchery Special School 9,965 48,316 48,556 10,292 22,525 Glencrutchery School – Pool 32,337 17,382 13,706 11,499 6,861 Glencrutchery Special School – Gym 5,094 18,161 2,930 1,704 2,414 Glencrutchery Special School ‘A’ House 6,025 2,026 1,658 18,126 2,084 Client Requested Works – Various 64,663 102,194 50,414 145,781 36,971 GrandProperties Total 2,462,614 2,464,056 2,549,735 2,497,198 2,111,218

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79. Path behind Vicarage Close in Ballabeg – Cost; planning permission; reason for

The Hon. Member for Arbory, Castletown and Malew (Mr Moorhouse) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

How much the new path behind the houses on Vicarage Close in Ballabeg costs; whether planning permission has been granted; what the reason for the project is; and if he will make a statement?

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): The cost of the works to date is £10,305. This 4135 includes soakaways, land drainage, fencing and the pathway. The tendering process is underway for the remainder of the works. Planning and Building Control Division of the Department of Environment Food and Agriculture have advised that planning approval is not required. A small number of properties in Vicarage Close are subject to an unacceptable risk of flooding. 4140 The primary purpose of the works is therefore flood risk management. As the ground is being disturbed by this work and with the agreement of all interested stakeholders, the opportunity has been taken to extend the pathway across the Department’s own land, creating a private rear access to four properties. The advantages of the scheme are flood risk mitigation, and improved access for landlord, 4145 tenant and the emergency services; meaning that there is no longer a requirement to transport goods and equipment through the property, reducing the risk of damage and in any case an inconvenience for our tenants.

MANX UTILITIES AUTHORITY

80. Electricity interconnectors with neighbouring countries – Estimated cost

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority:

What the estimated cost is of one or more new electricity interconnectors between the Island and neighbouring countries, together with the associated works?

The Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority (Mr Baker): Manx Utilities has commenced initial feasibility investigations for options for installing additional electrical interconnection and 4150 costs are estimated to be between £100 million and £200 million, depending on the route, capacity and technology used. In evaluating the costs of interconnection, it is necessary to make some broad assumptions such as the power capacity of the asset and the applicable power system security standards that will be utilised. 4155 The cost of interconnection is heavily influenced by the type of technology used; in this case this will be either an alternating current (AC) or direct current (DC) system. Any future interconnection will require an Environmental Impact Assessment along the entire proposed route; routing may then be influenced by the findings as well as marine surveys which will be required to understand the geology of the seabed on the route. Routing is also influenced 4160 by such things as shipping lanes, fishing zones and the location of other man-made marine assets.

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In addition, consideration must be given to the relative ‘strength’ of the power network being connected to i.e. how much energy can it supply and how resilient is it to power system disturbances. A point of connection needs to be identified before more detailed and expensive surveys are carried out. 4165 The cost of all infrastructure, when it is built, is also influenced by commodity costs. The costs in particular of metals such as copper and steel are influenced by supply and demand factors at the time. For AC interconnection, with an assumed route length of 100 km and a nominal power capacity of 140 MW, Manx Utilities is currently estimating a cost of £1 million/MW, i.e. £140 million. 4170 For DC, the nodes where the interconnector connects to the land based networks are likely to require a larger land footprint than for an AC solution and the assets required to make the connection are more complex. Manx Utilities’ working assumption therefore is that there is a premium to the use of DC technology of somewhere between 40% and 60%, i.e. £1.4 million/MW to £1.6 million/MW. Due to power flow and route security issues associated with combining a new 4175 interconnector with the existing one, DC interconnection may prove to be the preferred option.

81. Combined Cycle Gas Turbines at Pulrose – Running on blended hydrogen and natural gas

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority:

Whether the combined cycle gas turbines at Pulrose can run on blended hydrogen and natural gas; what opportunities and challenges exist in respect of conversion of the fuel; and if he will make a statement?

The Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority (Mr Baker): The existing Combined Cycle Gas Turbine plant at Pulrose can operate safely on natural gas containing up to 5% hydrogen (by volume). Modifications to the fuel and safety systems could potentially achieve an increase of up to 25% 4180 hydrogen. Manx Utilities’ supplier has provided a commercial proposal so that this can be implemented at the appropriate time. The supplier has experience of gas turbines operating at up to 75% hydrogen, but this has not yet been safety certified for continuous operation. Continuous operation of the gas turbines in the range 25% to 75% hydrogen will require hardware and material changes inside the gas turbine, 4185 which should be commercially available in three to five years. The plans for 100% hydrogen are expected to take up to 10 years. The Natural Gas Transmission supply regulations currently limit the blend of hydrogen to 0.1%. Manufacturers report they are confident that gas turbine equipment will remain compatible as the percentage of hydrogen is increased in the Natural Gas transmission network.

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82. National gas pipelines – Expected life of and future planning

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority:

What the expected life is of the natural gas pipelines to and around the Island; and how Manx Utilities Authority and Manx Gas are involved in planning the future use of these pipelines?

4190 The Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority (Mr Baker): The natural gas high pressure pipeline was commissioned in 2003 with a 40-year engineering design life. Integrity assessments are regularly carried out on the pipeline to ensure that there has been no localised damage or deterioration. The condition of the pipeline is currently classed as excellent and Manx Utilities anticipate that the lifetime of the pipework will be extended beyond this design period. 4195 The natural gas intermediate pressure network that feeds the Manx Gas network, is also in excellent condition, it was commissioned in 2011 and has a design life of 50 years. Manx Gas are responsible for the maintenance and future development of their distribution network. Manx Utilities maintains a good operational working relationship with Manx Gas although has no involvement in the plans for the local distribution network.

83. Water and sewerage rate rises 2016-17 and 2021-22 – Total property rateable value

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority:

What the total property rateable value was on which the Board raised a water and sewerage rate in 2016-17 and 2021-22; and what the total rate raised in both those years was, broken down between domestic and non-domestic users of both water and sewerage?

4200 The Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority (Mr Baker):

£ million Water Sewerage Water Sewerage

2016-17 2016-17 2021-22 2021-22 Total property rateable value 7.0 6.7 7.2 6.9 Total rate raised: - domestic 17.7 4.6 13.5 11.1 - non-domestic 2.4 0.8 2.4 2.5 Total 20.1 5.4 15.9 13.6

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84. Standard metered supply of water and septic tank emptying – Fees and charges collected 2016-17 and 2020-21

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority:

How much was collected in 2016-17 and 2020-21 in fees and charges relating to (a) the standard metered supply of water and (b) septic tank emptying?

The Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority (Mr Baker):

£ million 2016-17 2020-21 (a) the Standard Metered Supply of Water 2.13 1.67 (b) Septic Tank Emptying 0.19 0.23

85. Voluntary adoption of water meters – Consideration given

The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority:

What consideration has been given to voluntary adoption of water meters as part of the smart meter rollout, or otherwise?

The Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority (Mr Baker): Manx Utilities’ Smart Metering Programme is prioritising the modernisation and replacement of the existing electricity meter fleet, primarily due to equipment availability and obsolescence risks. 4205 In considering the installation of Smart meters, it should be noted that there is a significant difference between the placement of domestic electricity and water meters in terms of potential synergy; electricity meters are generally placed within the consumers’ premises whereas water meters are situated beyond the boundary of the property, usually at the stop tap in the pavement. As such there is little or no benefit to installing Smart water meters at the same time as installing 4210 a Smart electricity meter. Manx Utilities has undertaken and supported several water meter reviews over a number of years and on each occasion a business case could not support wide-scale installation of water meters based on cost-benefit evaluations. However, increasing environmental benefits and changes to risk factors may support a further review, and Manx Utilities’ continuing climate 4215 adaption work will continue to investigate this matter.

FAIR TRADING

86. OFT northern dial-a-ride service investigation – Progress and date report will be published

The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Chairman of the Office of Fair Trading:

What progress has been made into the investigation by the Office of Fair Trading of the northern dial-a-ride service; and when a report will be published?

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The Chairman of the Office of Fair Trading (Mr Perkins): The OFT has reviewed the information it initially requested from notified parties. We are now in the process of analysing data with expert assistance from a contracted third party resource, with a view to producing a report. It is anticipated that this preliminary investigation under section 9(1) of the Fair Trading 4220 Act 1996 will be completed by the end of September 2021, if not sooner, and that the report will then be published in accordance with Schedule 3 to the Act.

COUNCIL OF MINISTERS’ LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE

87. Primary legislation not yet brought into force – When to be brought into force

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chairman of the Council of Ministers’ Legislative Committee:

What primary legislation is on the statute book which has not yet been brought into force in whole or in part; and when such legislation will be brought into force?

The Chairman of the Council of Ministers’ Legislative Committee (Mr Harmer): Please find a below a list of Acts of Tynwald, as at 13th July 2021 that have uncommenced provisions. Please note that whilst every effort is made to ensure the accuracy of the record of uncommenced provisions there may be Appointed Day Orders which are not reflected in the list. In respect of when uncommenced provisions will be brought into force, this would be for the 4225 sponsoring Department to consider and determine.

Agricultural Marketing (Amendment) Act 2006 Agriculture (Safety, Health and Welfare Provisions) Act 1974 Anti-Terrorism and Crime (Amendment) Act 2011 Audit (Amendment) Act 2015 4230 Beneficial Ownership (Amendment) Act 2021 Beneficial Ownership Act 2017 Central Registry Act 2018 Civil Jurisdiction Act 2001 Civil Partnership Act 2011 4235 Communications Act 2021 Companies (Amendment) Act 2021 Companies Act 2006 Companies, etc. (Amendment) Act 2003 Contracts (Applicable Law) Act 1992 4240 Copyright etc (Amendment) Act 2014 Criminal Justice Act 2001 Criminal Justice, Police Powers and Other Amendments Act 2014 Custody (Amendment) Act 2016 Debt Recovery and Enforcement Act 2012 4245 Divorce, Dissolution and Separation (Isle of Man) Act 2020 Domestic Abuse Act 2019 Equality Act 2017 Estate Agents Act 1999 Fire Precautions (Amendment) Act 1992 4250 Fire Precautions Act 1975 ______2790 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Harbours Act 2010 Highways (Amendment) Act 2016 Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2011 Income Tax (Amendment) Act 1986 4255 Income Tax Act 1989 Income Tax Act 1991 Insurance (Amendment) Act 2017 Interpretation Act 2015 Legislation Act 2015 4260 Local Government Act 2006 Manx Care Act 2021 Marine Infrastructure Management Act 2016 Marriage and Civil Registration (Amendment) Act 2011 Medicines Act 2003 4265 Merchant Shipping (Amendment) Act 2007 Moneylenders Act 1991 National Health and Care Service Act 2016 National Health Service Act 2001 Police (Amendment) Act 2016 4270 Public Health Act 1990 Public Services Commission Act 2015 Registration of Business Names (Amendment) Act 2020 Registration of Electors Act 2006 Registration of Electors Act 2020 4275 Regulation of Care Act 2013 Representation of the People (Amendment) Act 2015 Residence Act 2001 Retirement Benefits Schemes Act 2000 Road Traffic (Amendment) Act 2001 4280 Road Traffic (Amendment) Act 2006 Road Traffic Act 1985 Road Traffic and Highways (Miscellaneous Amendments) Act 2012 Road Transport, Licensing and Registration (Amendment) Act 2018 Safeguarding Act 2018 4285 Sewerage (Amendment) Act 2015 Social Services Act 2011 Statute Law Revision Act 1997 Terrorism and Other Crime (Financial Restrictions) Act 2014 Tourism (Registration and Grading) Act 1996 4290 Town and Country Planning (Amendment) Act 2019 Tynwald Commissioner for Administration Act 2011 Wildlife Act 1990 Wildlife Etc. (Amendment) Act 1994 Wills Act 1985

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88. Secondary legislation – Outstanding for next administration; prioritising

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chairman of the Council of Ministers’ Legislative Committee:

What outstanding secondary legislation needs to be made in the next administration; and if he will publish a prioritised list of secondary legislation that needs to be made before July 2022?

The Chairman of the Council of Ministers’ Legislative Committee (Mr Harmer): The Legislation Sub-Committee (‘the Sub-Committee’) was established, at the request of the Council of Ministers, to: 4295  Consider the legislative priorities of Government and make a recommendation to the Council of Ministers in respect of the programme for each legislative session of the administration; and, once the programme has been agreed;  Monitor and review the progress of priority Bills within the programme on a monthly basis and submit, on a quarterly basis, an update report to the Council of Ministers for 4300 noting; and  Consider requests by Departments for the inclusion of additional Bills on the programme and make recommendations to the Council of Ministers in respect of reprioritising Bills within the programme if required.

Whilst the Sub-Committee has visibility of major items of secondary legislation (defined 4305 below), in order to be fully informed when considering the delivery of legislative priorities, it does not produce a legislative programme including or exclusively for all secondary legislation.

 Directly linking to the outcomes identified in the Programme for Government;  Involving significant policy change;  Requiring significant drafting time; 4310  Representing a potential political risk if not progressed.

Whilst the legislative priorities for the next administration will need be determined by such, Departments will be asked to confirm what items of secondary legislation are outstanding and are required to be carried forward for consideration and progression by the next administration in order to inform discussions regarding the 2021-2026 Legislation Programme.

CHIEF MINISTER’S COMMUNITY AND PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT COMMITTEE

89. Community hubs – Opening one in or near Port Erin and Port St Mary

The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Chair of the Chief Minister’s Community and Public Engagement Committee:

When a community hub will open in or near Port Erin and Port St Mary?

4315 The Chair of the Chief Minister’s Community and Public Engagement Committee (Mr Hooper): The current Community Hub project is a trial. As part of the trial, the public are being asked via a survey and through feedback where they would like to see a Hub operating, and what services they would like to see within the hub concept.

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The team working on the pilot are investigating whether Thie Rosien in Port Erin could 4320 accommodate a pilot location and ideally would like a Community Hub to be up and running in that space along with the launch of the Southern Wellbeing Partnership. The Chief Minister’s Community and Public Engagement Committee were asked to produce a report on Community Hubs which is now published and is tabled for debate during July’s Tynwald sitting and it is hoped that this debate will help shape the future delivery of government services 4325 in local communities. As I outlined in my e-mail to all Members on 14th June, the team overseeing the pilot scheme are keen to engage with Members and Departments regarding the Community Hub pilot, and feedback and suggestions are welcome to help us develop and evolve the offering. Although to date I have received only two responses – one of which was from the Hon Member asking this 4330 Question and the other from a Member of the Department of Health and Social Care enquiring how the Department might be able to work closer with the hub pilot team.

NATIONAL HOUSING POLICY BOARD

90. Reported increase in rental property sales for owner occupation – Evidence for and engagement to establish trends

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central (Mr Thomas) to ask the Chair of the National Housing Policy Board:

What evidence exists or will be obtained about the reported increasing sale of rental properties for owner occupation; and whether the Government has engaged with estate agents or other potential information sources to establish any trends?

The Chair of the National Housing Policy Board (Mr Harmer): In respect of rental properties being sold and becoming owner occupied, Government holds no data in relation to this. The 2021 census will provide some data about the number of properties that are owner 4335 occupied (either outright or through a mortgage) and those that are renting privately which can be compared to the 2011 census results. However, the census will not identify the cause of any change, which could be due to the sale of rental properties to owner occupiers, through newly built properties or due to other reasons. In time, the Landlord Registration (Private Housing) Bill 2020 – which was passed by the 4340 Branches – will be a mechanism for data collection regarding registration of landlords and the properties they rent out. This, however, will not provide any further information on sales of such properties and will only capture increases and decreases.

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Main Order Paper (continued)

4. Climate Change Plan Consultation – Statement by the Minister for Policy and Reform

The President: Which therefore takes us on to the Order Paper at Item number 4, which is the Climate Change Plan Consultation. The Minister for Policy and Reform to make a Statement. 4345 Minister.

The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Harmer): Thank you, Mr President. The past year has seen a real acceleration in climate action in the Isle of Man. Last July the Climate Change Bill consultation draft was laid before Tynwald and we are now awaiting Royal 4350 Assent on this important piece of legislation, which will transform the way we tackle climate change. The Climate Change Bill will put climate change, a fair and equitable transition to net-zero and the protection of nature at the heart of everything that we do as a Government and as an Island. In addition to the statutory commitment to achieving net-zero greenhouse gas emissions by 4355 2050, the Climate Change Bill requires an active Climate Change Plan to be in operation at all times. On the enactment of the Bill, the current Council of Ministers’ Climate Action Plan will become the statutory plan, and there is a requirement for this to be replaced by a new plan to be agreed by Tynwald by April 2022. I have laid before Tynwald today the online consultation document which will inform public 4360 engagement on climate change this summer. This consultation will provide a real opportunity for members of the public and key stakeholders to contribute to the development of the first statutory Climate Change Plan. We will also be using this opportunity to raise awareness of climate change and the actions that will be required by Government, organisations and individuals to ensure that we are on the right trajectory to net-zero. 4365 I acknowledge that some of these issues in the consultation are complex and officers in the Climate Change Transformation Team will proactively engage throughout the summer to help people understand the issues and to give everyone the tools to effectively participate in the climate conversation. I am very pleased to have significant progress to report on the delivery of Phase 1 Climate Action Plan. Whilst the formation of the Climate Change Transformation Team in 4370 Cabinet Office suffered inevitable delays because of last year’s first lockdown, the team was established in September 2020 and is now working with colleagues across Government and in the community to deliver 60 actions outlined for Phase 1. I am pleased to report that colleagues across Departments are making big changes in their own day-to-day operation and in the delivery of special climate projects to contribute towards cutting our Government and national emissions. 4375 One of the key pieces of work with that team and colleagues across Government has been the work around future energy scenarios and identifying the right way forward for energy generation to achieve net-zero emissions. Deciding on our pathway for energy generation will be key in informing a wide range of other actions, particularly around how we heat our homes and decarbonise our travel. Making the necessary investment, and sometimes difficult decisions about 4380 energy generation, has been a turning point for many other jurisdictions to significantly reduce emissions. For the Isle of Man, we have short-term emission reduction options around increasing the import of renewable electricity from the UK but we also need to consider the best long-term route to net-zero, and consultation on the future energy scenarios work over the next few months will be an essential part of this journey. 4385 These are important and expensive decisions and it is crucial that we get good input from our community and business over the summer to feed into our thinking. However, it is already clear ______2794 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

we need to ensure resilience through being involved in the widening of network interconnectors which help to ensure resilient supply despite intermittent generation and I am pleased to report that Manx Utilities have commenced a feasibility study for a new interconnector. 4390 In terms of future energy supply, hydrocarbon exploration seems to be increasingly at odds with our commitments on net-zero, so we do need to ask ourselves is this something the Isle of Man Government should be licensing in future? We know that emissions associated with gas extraction will increase our national reported emissions and make achieving net-zero even more challenging. While seabed leases can be a source of income, it seems unlikely that licensing new 4395 hydrocarbon exploration is compatible with our statutory commitment to net-zero. One no-regret action is to ensure that small-scale renewable energy, in particular solar PV, is integrated into new buildings and work is under way to ensure that this becomes and is the norm in the near future, reducing the reliance of households on fossil fuels and hoping to keep bills down. In particular, we intend to make sure that in future more opportunities to integrate solar 4400 PV in Government buildings will be taken. Increasingly, this is being planned in to Government building projects and we will see this happening as the newer projects come to fruition. This is a good time to discuss one of our biggest challenges, which is our prioritisation of efforts and investment. We all know that addressing climate change is essential, expensive and involves so many aspects of our lives. However, we need to ensure that investment is focused in those 4405 areas that achieve the biggest impact, so we are increasingly focusing where the emissions reduction per pound invested is greatest, while taking account of the accompanying financial savings. For example, investment in insulation saves energy and there is a net cost saving within a short timescale, while structural building changes may be very expensive. Work is also under way to accelerate the replacement of the Government fleet cars with 4410 electric vehicles and as depot chargers are put in place we will see the majority of the depot-based light vehicles being replaced by electric vehicles. The home-based light vehicle will be addressed as home charging becomes available. We also need to make sure that we give people time to plan for key changes that will affect all of us, and a good example of this is the registration of new fossil fuel vehicles. In line with the UK, 4415 we will be banning the registration of new fossil fuel vehicles by 2030 and the consultation will explore the appropriate dates thereafter to ban the use of fossil fuel vehicles, enabling the phasing out of one of our biggest single contributors to our national emissions. As an Island with a particular love of the motor vehicle, I know this transition may seem particularly challenging, but current work to develop a transport decarbonisation strategy will help us to envisage a low carbon 4420 future for transport and ensure that we develop equitable policies that do not unfairly impact more vulnerable groups in our community. Something that is becoming obvious is the inextricable connection between the health of our ecosystems and biodiversity and our response to climate change. Healthy ecosystems will help us to remove more carbon from the atmosphere and store it, and they will also help us to adapt to 4425 the effects of climate change, building resilience in flooding, erosion and overheating. Our public transport system moves from strength to strength and our infrastructure, which is a passion of mine, for walking and cycling has improved dramatically, offering more options for those who have made the move away from driving. We have also done significant work to better understand emissions how they are estimated 4430 and reported, and this has improved our baseline data and gives a sound basis from which to measure our delivery of emission reduction across all sectors. However, while total emissions are lower, the scale of challenge does not change, as we still need to move from where we are today to net-zero. The Climate Change Bill strengthens our statutory duty to care for our natural environment 4435 and implement this effectively. We really need to see a cultural change with our relationship with nature. We know that Manx residents are proud of our Biosphere status and most people want to protect nature and do the right thing for the next generations who will live here in the Isle of Man and around the world. Now is the time to embrace our natural environment and to ______2795 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

implement nature-based solutions to the climate crisis. We have seen the start of an ambitious 4440 peat restoration project, restoring the carbon-storing capacity of degraded peat in our uplands and the planting of over 100,000 trees in the last 12 months. Increasingly, we are considering if there is net biodiversity gain achieved by new developments and making that part of our planning policy going forward. This is particularly important and appropriate for us as a UNESCO Biosphere Island, where we are working together to ensure that 4445 people and nature have a sustainable future. Another area where we are making progress is in respect of ‘blue carbon’, which is an emerging area of climate science where we have the scope to be a global leader. The ocean is our biggest carbon source and as an Island where over 80% of our land is under water, there is so much scope to both increase the sequestration and reduce the risk of our unknowing actions cause on the 4450 stored carbon to be released. There is massive scope in this area and we have now agreed a project which will involve working in partnership with universities to identify how we can best do this alongside the existing Marine Nature Reserve and Area of Special Scientific Interest networks already protecting important blue carbon habitats, such as eelgrass meadows and saltmarshes. So I hope Members are reassured there is much work already under way and a consultation 4455 will open after this sitting. As I have identified, there are key issues to be agreed from this consultation, with future energy strategy one of the most important, and this decision will enable many other emission reduction initiatives, such as transport and property heating. It is crucial for our economy and for our residents’ affluence and quality of life. Therefore, I would please … I would ask and courage and urge all of you to encourage your constituents to get involved, both 4460 by completing relevant sections of the consultation that they have an interest and through a number of many engagement events which will occur over the summer. The consultation results, plus further research and work on the strategies identified, will allow the next administration to bring forward the proposed Plan this autumn, which as Members will recall will work together on the Climate Change Bill, then has a formal consultation process on the 4465 Plan. This will then allow the new administration to bring the final Plan for implementation in April 2022. Let’s not lose sight of the dual emergency that we are faced with: the devastating impacts of climate change and the catastrophic loss of biodiversity. We are beginning to understand these challenges in the Isle of Man context and need to act urgently and act effectively, and decisively. 4470 I encourage everyone who cares about the future of our Island and the future of our planet to engage in this summer’s national conversation so that together we can agree the best way forward. Thank you, Mr President.

4475 The President: Now, with Statements, questions clearly can be asked, so I call upon Mr Mercer.

Mr Mercer: Thank you, Mr President. There is a lot to unpack in this Statement. It is broadly welcome; there are a couple of things I have got some concerns on. Firstly, do you not run the risk of confusion on the consultation side 4480 by combining the energy strategy consultation with the climate change consultation? I think there is sufficient meat in both of those for them to perhaps be considered separately. The other is more of an observation, really, on carbon pricing, which I see now has made an appearance in this Statement, and I wonder why we did not take the opportunity to put that on a statutory footing within the Climate Bill itself. I know it was discussed, but we have seen that in 4485 the UK, with their carbon budgeting cycle, going through five cycles, that has resulted in significant reduction in UK emissions. I think the other part that really leapt out at me there was the seabed leases, which was covered slightly earlier as part of a CFD question, but is a significant source of income. The adjacent seabed leases that are owned by the Crown, in the most recent auction for those I think

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4490 they netted £200 million per year. So we potentially are missing out on a significant source of income. I think that is something that we should perhaps explore in much further detail. Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to reply. 4495 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President, and I thank the Member of Council for those points. They are very informative, very valid points. In terms of separately, what the consultation does is explore all of those areas. This is very much a bigger stakeholder engagement and an engagement piece and a conversation. So the 4500 energy will have its own pride of place and will be focused on separately, as well as within the wider context. So it will not be one big consultation. I think that is really important that it is just not one big consultation, but be a number. It is that conversation, and the end point that we need to get to is that Action Plan in a statutory format in April 2022. I think his point about carbon budgeting is a good one. I think that will have to be explored, 4505 and if not done on a statutory basis, then done on a non-statutory. Obviously it will need a change of Bill if we go forward. Seabed leasing: I think he has got a very important point, but I just wanted also just to really highlight the potential of a blue carbon in this. So, for example, our budget is around, or that we spend, is 700,000 tonnes. Blue carbon could potentially address 220,000 tonnes. Its capacity to 4510 deal and to achieve net-zero and seabed leases and all of these kind of things is so fundamental and an opportunity for us to be a global leader. So yes, I agree, we have to pick up the pace on both of those.

The President: I call upon the Hon. Member Mr Thomas. 4515 Mr Thomas: Thank you, and I appreciate greatly the Minister’s Statement and launching the consultation. I also appreciate the draft executive summary document from the Future Energy Scenarios and the background document being published on the Supplementary Order Paper now with a 4520 Government document number. Can the Minister confirm that the full Future Energy Scenarios document, the 142-page document that was available from yesterday afternoon on the Government website, will actually be published with a Government document number on the next sitting of Tynwald, so it is a permanent document inside the parliamentary system? Because it would be a shame if that document did not have that status. 4525 Secondly, will the Minister commit to publishing the interim final report from Ove Arup that only had the three recommendations rather than the final five recommendations, because I do think it would be very helpful to understand the evolution of thought in respect of those points? I have got a second question for later, Mr President, if that is all right.

4530 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: I think the first answer is yes. I mean, if we can get a Government number beforehand that was one of the ways, but if we cannot then obviously we want to formalise that. Regarding where it was three to five, I can be quite straightforward on that. We wanted, as a 4535 Climate Change Transformation Board, to see more on-Island generation factored as one of the options, and that was really important to us. So that is why they were asked for, looking at those other options, because that is important. I do not want to confuse people, but we will certainly factor in the most sensible way of dealing with it, but that was the clear … There was no point having an energy strategy that said we are 4540 just going to use predominately interconnectors, we want to see how that changed if we use more on-Island generation. (A Member: Hear, hear.) ______2797 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Thank you, Mr President.

The President: I call upon Mr Hooper to ask a question. 4545 Mr Hooper: Thank you, very much, Mr President. In his remarks, I am pretty sure I heard the Minister say that funding will be targeted at areas where we get the most carbon reduction for our money, the ‘most bang for our buck’, I think, was the phrase he used. 4550 Would the Minister not accept though that the Isle of Man’s total output in this space actually is not even noticeable on the international global scale, and that perhaps the Isle of Man will be better at focusing its revenue and spending in this space on things that benefit people the most? All the actions that have been outlined will undoubtedly benefit the environment, will have a positive effect on carbon reduction, but would it not make more sense to actually target our 4555 funding, in the first instance, at things that will have the largest impact on individual householders? So supporting home insulation, for example, or supporting electrification of vehicles – those kinds of things that actually will benefit people the most, which will also reduce our carbon output, as opposed to simply focusing on things that reduce our carbon output without necessarily having a direct correlating benefit to people either on their quality of life or their cost 4560 of living.

Mr Quine: Hear, hear.

The President: Minister to reply. 4565 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I think it is a very interesting point and a totally valid point. I think the first remarks I said were about that transition, that this climate change is a transition. But I want to just put some meat on the bones. 4570 I think it is much more fundamental than this. I think we have the opportunity right here, right now to say this is the default: the default for housing, for buildings is a zero-carbon, a passive housing standard. I think we have the thing here that we talk right here, right now, no more fossil fuel cars from 2030. I think we have the opportunity right here, right now to talk about our fleet moving in the small 4575 area, completely into electrics. Why are we buying any more fossil-fuel cars? Solar energy is also solar panels. Why put things on buildings that are not, when it is quite clear that we can make that gain? If you looked at all the five energy scenarios they all talked about micro solar actually affecting it. But I would also widen it. Yes, it is about people, but also there is an economic aspect to this. 4580 There is what is important about our own natural habitat and our auditing of our nature and understanding, and I come back to blue carbon and how we can be a global world leader in this field. So it is both about the people and it is also about being potentially a world leader.

The President: Mr Henderson. 4585 Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Can the Shirveishagh answer me a few short points, please? First of all, how is this consultation process and the ensuing legislation going to address the likes of engines left idling in streets and schools when the Highway Act is completely neutered 4590 over this? There have never been any prosecutions. Are we bringing in some new regulation under the Climate Change Bill? Second, how are we going to address when we are talking about energy where we have public buildings now slipping the net, even though this is emerging now, whereby they are choosing for ______2798 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

public buildings – both local authority and Government – gas central heating, not moving to air 4595 source, for instance? How is that happening? How is that going to be addressed? And, finally, how is it going to be addressed that we learnt this afternoon of a whole swathe of mature trees to be ripped out in Government House, for instance –

Mr Callister: It is not true, Bill, do not listen to what he says. 4600 Mr Henderson: – and other places as well? (Interjection by Mr Callister) Could he give us some reassurance on that, or how we work towards far better Biosphere management?

4605 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you. Sorry, Hon. Member of Council, could you just repeat the first question, something about traffic? Could you just explain that first point again? I do not think I clearly got the question. 4610 Mr Henderson: Yes, while we are in this transitionary period with this emerging policy and legislation, your consultation, blah, what are we going to do with regard to, say, if we are so keen on pollution and climate change, what I have been banging on about with these vehicles that are left idling with drivers sitting in for five or 10, 15, 20 minutes, or half an hour? The Highways Act 4615 is completely neutered on that. There has never been a prosecution. Are we going to bring in some regulation under the new legislation? Thank you.

The President: Minister to respond. 4620 The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. I think the first question, which I asked to repeat there, is a very important point. It is about our own behaviours, and understanding our own behaviours has a massive impact on climate change; and there is no need for engines idling, it is a bad practice. Whether legislation comes 4625 about, that would obviously be for the next administration, but fundamentally we have got to be careful with legislation. It is about all of us on this journey together and about moving forward. In terms of planning policy, I believe strongly in net-biodiversity gain, in anything that is done going forward, and I think that is absolutely critical. But what I would like to see – and that is why I have really made an 4630 important point about that in the speech – is because I think these are points of principle and if we embed them into our next administration, then we will change the way. It is the same if you get the culture change, then you will see massively more action than just trying to do it from the sidelines. Thank you, Mr President. 4635 The President: I call upon Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. I also want to thank, before I start with the questions, the Minister for that very clear 4640 commitment in terms of publishing both of the documents and the clear explanation of the evolution between the three options and the five options. I do think it would be helpful to publish both for those really interested in this topic. Three questions – and this is to confirm what I think I heard. The first one is I think I heard in the Minister’s statement that there was a commitment in respect of prospecting extraction of gas

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4645 from the territorial seas, along the lines that we were not doing it. I just wanted to make sure I did not misunderstand that in his initial statement. The second point was that I think I heard a commitment in the answer to Mr Hooper just then that the gas pipeline, whether it be with natural gas or blended gas, would not be used after 2030. That was the second thing I think I heard in the answer to Mr Hooper. 4650 The third point is that building on Mr Hooper’s idea – Green-Living Grant, insulation – that sort of assumes that the basic housing meets environmental health standards, and it sort of assumes that people have converted their fossil-fuel heating systems into an appropriate system. Has that assumption been considered in this process of drawing up this consultation, or is it something that still needs to be evolved? In other words the future use of gas, particularly, but also other fossil 4655 fuels, has that already been decided by Government, or has it received advice from somebody about that? Or is that still pending other consultancy reports that might become available in coming months?

The President: Minister to reply. 4660 The Minister: Thank you on those three questions, and thank you for that. Regarding the prospecting, I said it is in my view incompatible and I know where I stand on it. Obviously, any final decision needs to be across Government, but I am quite clear on it. On item 2 you talked about whether those gas pipelines could be used for hydrogen. There is 4665 nothing stopping, in my view, the potential continued use, depending on technology. I cannot predict what that technology will be. There are some limitations that I have been made aware of that our power station cannot use a mixture of gas and hydrogen. That is what I am led to believe and if that is actually the case then it will have a limiting factor on what we can use our current CGT power turbine … 4670 Can you just repeat the third question, I had ‘environment’ down? (Interjection)

The President: Please.

Mr Thomas: In terms of the Green-Living Grant, whether that presupposed work on improving 4675 basic environmental health standards for houses and also the conversion from fossil-fuel heating for space into electric heating, for instance.

The President: Minister.

4680 The Minister: Okay, thank you. In terms of environmental health, the focus – and very much in answer to the question from the Member for Ramsey – was regarding real things that happen right now and actually the Green- Living Grant addresses something right now. The most effective thing we can do is improve insulation, and I will come down to this later. A lot of our houses are actually a much lower energy 4685 rating, they are an E, and a lot of that is down to the fact that the insulation is not good enough. So something that we can help with very early on is actually dealing with that, and that is why there is a motion later on in the Order Paper that actually addresses those issues. Now, in terms of environment standards generally around housing, I think that is probably slightly separate. I would again, and I am just saying personally, be very supportive of doing 4690 something in that space, although it is something separate from climate change.

The President: Hon. Members, I think that concludes Item 4.

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Procedural – Point of order by Mr Callister regarding Question 15

The President: But, before we move on to Item 5, Mr Callister I believe wants to make a point of order. 4695 Mr Callister: Thank you, Mr President, and I am sorry to add to your busy day, but I feel I need to get to my feet after my colleague from Council, Mr Henderson just again made reference to some trees that were referred to in Question 15. Unfortunately, I feel my colleague from Douglas Central has misled this Court, and I do not 4700 choose my words lightly there. I have actually written to all Tynwald Members this afternoon to explain the situation with regard to the trees there in that particular site. Actually, it is not 60 trees, which is what Mr Thomas has referred to in his answer to this Court this morning or this afternoon. It is 30 trees and most of those are going to be pruned. I just want to give Mr Thomas an opportunity to actually correct his statement which I felt was 4705 factually incorrect, Mr President.

The President: Mr Callister, would you like to amend that to say whether it was a mistake or if he was wrong, rather than misled?

4710 Mr Callister: Yes, Mr President, I am happy to do that. I am very upset by the fact that there is obviously a political game going on here, and I am happy to use whatever words you want me to use, but I want Mr Thomas to actually make a correct statement because what he said in the Court, for whatever reasons, was factually wrong. I am sorry, I am not going to correct that, but it is factually incorrect and I have written to Members giving them full details of the actual particular 4715 case that I was working on, on behalf of many constituents since 2018.

The President: Thank you, Mr Callister. I take that as duly noted at this point. Now we will move on. Mr Thomas. 4720 Mr Thomas: Is this to respond, or …?

The President: No, we will move on, but point taken.

5. Department for Education, Sport and Culture Strategy – Statement by the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture

The President: We will now move on to Item 5. I call upon the Minister for Education, Sport 4725 and Culture to make a Statement.

The Minister for Education, Sport and Culture (Dr Allinson): Thank you very much, Mr President. The Department’s Implementation Plan was presented to Tynwald in January 2021, and 4730 contained a list of activities included in the organisational development plan. One activity was to create and roll out divisional strategies to staff and develop delivery plans which will underpin this Strategy. A further activity was to create and roll out the Department’s vision and values. Since then, the Department has launched an employee vision and values survey and has drafted the strategic plan for the next five years.

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4735 This high level plan seeks to establish a strong forward direction for the Department and makes clear its commitment to develop a more inclusive, collaborative, and open approach to its work. The plan is an ambitious commitment to improving outcomes for children, young people, and adults. It goes hand in hand with the pre-existing strategies for culture, art and sport which are already underway. This has been formed from the input and feedback we have received through 4740 a number of channels, both within the centre and schools, over the last seven months, and has been shared with unions and all staff. As such, I hope you all feel this reflects a direction you can recognise and agree with. This plan is live but open to review so that we reflect the changing needs of the Department and ensure we are achieving our vision. Once the strategic plan has been laid before today’s sitting, the Department will work with all 4745 employees to develop internal annual service delivery plans. The detail will come from these delivery plans, which will include the key activities to be undertaken to ensure the plan is achievable. The activities will be SMART – Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic and Timely – to ensure that success can be measured and progress will be stated in the annual reports. One of the Department’s actions in the Programme for Government was to develop a lifelong 4750 learning strategy by July 2021. This important topic has been incorporated throughout the strategic plan for the next five years. This vision and the values contained within this plan are the result of a recent survey via Teams, whereby we asked all of our employees to help in forming a vision and a set of values for the Department. Hundreds of our employees took the time to provide feedback and I would like to thank them for their engagement. 4755 The vision was formed from an amalgam of all the input provided to hopefully capture the essence of what everyone had to say and represents the vision of our employees from across the Department which includes education, sport and culture. Whilst it is impossible to utilise the words of everyone, I hope you will agree that the essence of the vision reflects your own broad beliefs. The values are the five words most frequently mentioned by all those who responded: 4760 respect, integrity, caring, fairness and trust. This is a high-level plan of action, but under this will be the generation of policies, guidance and potential legislation which will involve consultation and collaboration with staff, pupils, parents/carers and the wider community. We will be doing this through the policy hub but also using regular public consultations and utilising feedback from educators and other key 4765 stakeholders. Some examples include our recent surveys on race, student awards and the Vocational Training Assistance Scheme. There are suggested principles included within the student awards consultation which closes on 22nd July, which should underpin future policy and amendments to the current regulations. One of the principles is to ‘provide better parity with physical courses taken in the UK and part- 4770 time or distance learning courses in terms of fees and maintenance grants available’. The information that is received as part of this consultation will ensure that any future regulations allow for greater choice in the way that people undertake higher education. Further pieces of work will be carried out on the curriculum, outcome measurements and governance. We will consult and collaborate with staff, pupils, parents/carers and the wider 4775 community on these. It is critical that the Department forges strong relationships by working in partnership with other Government Departments, representatives of business, the third sector and members of the public, to be in the best position to ensure the Department is making an important contribution to our Isle of Man society. The Department’s aim is to inspire learners to flourish in life. We will achieve our vision by 4780 focusing on the following five areas for action. Curriculum, Learning and Achievement: the purpose of this area for action is to enable all learners to obtain the skills, knowledge and understanding to achieve their own personal goals, flourish in life and become positive contributors to society. Every learner will be challenged and encouraged to achieve. A strategic priority under this action includes reviewing our current 4785 provision with a view to developing a curriculum which takes into account the needs of learners

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of all ages and stages, developing their skills in learning, life and work. This will include looking at the provision of vocational studies within our schools and the UCM. Secondly, Early Intervention: the purpose of this action is to ensure that Early Intervention support will be provided at any stage in a child or young person’s development or education. 4790 Practitioners will quickly identify any significant educational or emotional needs of learners and provide services and support as soon as this assessment is made. Inclusive education allows for all children and young people regardless of ability, background and race to have the same opportunities to learn and develop. A strategic priority under this action includes ensuring sufficient resources are available to enable early intervention support with a clear, consistent, and 4795 easily understood framework. Thirdly, Employability: the purpose of this area for action is to allow for the development of broad transferrable skills that support learning and future employment; ensuring that employability skills enable the development of a flexible and adaptive Island workforce which will meet the needs of employers both now and in the future. A strategic priority under this action 4800 includes developing and supporting new opportunities for individuals of all ages to engage in learning, develop their full potential and in this way build a culture of lifelong learning across the Isle of Man. This includes re-skilling, supporting further and higher education and development for all. A key activity will be to establish direct links between the Department and employers to support the further development of careers, thereby allowing the Department to understand any 4805 skills gaps and potentially offer employability skills to fill these. Fourthly, Health and Wellbeing: the purpose of this area for action is to embrace an individual’s physical, emotional, and mental health to support a positive mind-set and behaviours, empowering them to make positive lifestyle choices to improve their overall health and wellbeing. And fifthly, Corporate Responsibility: the purpose of this is to understand the impact the 4810 Department has on our community, the environment and the economy, ensuring that the Department contributes positively to all stakeholders, ensures it operates in an ethical and sustainable way supporting the Government’s climate change agenda, whilst being transparent and accountable through good governance. Under each area for action, the Department has formulated four strategic priorities to be 4815 achieved over the next five years. Under each strategic priority, there will be key activities which will need to be undertaken in order to achieve these. Some activities are included in the strategic plan; however each year internal service delivery plans will be devised and will include the key activities needed to be undertaken in order to achieve each strategic priority. At the end of each year, an annual report will be published detailing the progress made for that year and the 4820 remaining challenges which will be met. The Department has already commenced a number of projects as a result of the Implementation Plan work and these are being run as task and finish groups, which include representatives who have volunteered from across our organisation. Some of the projects commenced include a schools resourcing review, the development of a quality assurance and 4825 inspection framework for our Island schools and a review of the IGCSE and GCSE offer across the Isle of Man secondary schools and UCM. By the end of July 2026, it is hoped that all strategic priorities identified will be actioned, and therefore the Department will have achieved all it has laid out within the strategic plan but through annual review and with the help of this Hon. Court we will continue to develop our 4830 strategies and policies to meet the needs of the people we serve. Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Thank you, Minister. Questions? I call upon Mrs Caine.

4835 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President, and I thank the Education Minister for this really ambitious and exciting strategy that he has brought before us, which I think is reflective of the seismic shift in the Education Department’s culture. I have five quick questions, if I may. ______2803 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Firstly, regarding building a culture and ethos of inclusion, is his Department considering alternative education provision to accommodate the high number of suspensions but also to cater 4840 for increasing numbers of young people opting to home-school for a range of issues that prevent them accessing mainstream schools? A policy of inclusion fails if students cannot avail themselves of the provision. Secondly, early intervention being given critical importance is welcome; would the Minister agree that state-funded pre-school could help all children in the early years leading to improved 4845 outcomes overall, and does he have any plans to seek a policy change on fully funded pre-school provision? Thirdly, the abandonment of modern foreign languages at primary level was regrettable; is that likely to be considered to be reintroduced as part of the curriculum review? Fourthly, identifying the need to make provision of outside education settings to enable 4850 disadvantaged children to access sport, cultural and learning experience, I think is a real breakthrough; but what work has the Department done to establish the current baseline levels of disadvantaged children and those with additional education needs? What resources, financial and people, will be required to deliver those aspects of the strategy, especially considering, I believe, that no pupil premium has been forthcoming in the years through this administration? 4855 Finally, what about the students currently in our state system? How will they be benefiting from this strategy while it is progressed? That will take a significant amount of resource to roll out. I would hope that the students currently in the system will not be forgotten. How will they benefit, and is he confident he will get the necessary resources to deliver the strategy? Thank you, Mr President. 4860 The President: Minister to respond.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for Garff for a bit of a collection of questions there, but 4865 it shows her passion in terms of education. She started off talking about inclusion, and I think this Hon. Court and this nation has always prided itself on having a truly inclusive education system, but that is not without its challenges. There have been calls for alternative education provision, whether that be children who have difficult behavioural problems or perhaps have particular needs. However, we have to remember 4870 that we live on a small Island with a relatively small population and so developing these resources can be very difficult with specialist skills. We are providing, however far more resources on the Island. The number of off-Island placements is relatively minimal, but certainly that is something we are looking at in terms of those who have special educational needs. We have a large number of units at the moment, and 4875 they carry out a very important role, but whether we work towards perhaps trying to centralise some of those or amalgamate some of those will be looked at in the future as we try to grasp the fully comprehensive AEN Code and the best way of resourcing that and providing those services. In terms of early intervention, she is quite right that pre-school assessment and pre-school provision is incredibly important, (1) to give those children a head start, but (2) to pick up some 4880 of the really early problems that may be masked and only become apparent when children enter primary education. Certainly we have an early years advisory team and there is now an early years strategy being developed and with Tynwald Members to actually tackle some of these problems, not just working with the Department for Education but also working with DfE and also the Department of Health and Social Care, to try to address not only child care but the early years 4885 provision, which is fundamental for actually building the building blocks for education and development in future lives. In terms of modern foreign languages at primary school level, obviously there were economic factors for that decision to be made, and I know a lot of educationalists have regretted that, not only in terms of the language development but also because of the benefits that we know come ______2804 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

4890 from working in a multilingual environment and one of the things that the Department and this Hon. Court have agreed recently is to include Bunscoill Ghaelgagh as part of the inherent education system. Immersing people in Manx has been incredibly useful for some of those students to develop lots of other attributes, not just their love and knowledge of the Manx culture and language. 4895 In terms of outside educational settings and provision for disadvantaged children, there is a range of options here really. I think lots of people do completely take on board the fact that different educational pathways are incredibly important. The Department has identified 250 young people who are considered to be on the margins of education; 130 of these are accessing school in full-time provision but do not always attend to actually achieve their potential; 120 are 4900 not accessing full-time provision really at all, with 66 only attending half of the time. We have got 58 young people who we have identified as being vulnerable to criminal exploitation. Obviously, when we come on to debate the Chief Constable’s Report that was one of the things he highlighted there as a real concern for him. So it is really important that in terms of early intervention we try to work in a strategic way with other agencies to support these students and actually reach out to 4905 them and try to engage with them. Her last question really was about how the Strategy will benefit those students who are currently in school, not just those in the future. What I would like to say is we will definitely prioritise this so that everyone sees the positive changes in terms of education over the coming years, both in terms of staff and teachers, in terms of hopefully the support they get from the 4910 Department; but also those pupils and parents. We will be taking forward consultations, as we have done on student awards, in terms of exams as well, because that has been one of the concerns from parents about the exams, particularly amplified by the problems we had last year with exam grades and some of the issues we had with the IGCSE. Whilst I have not got any particular agenda on that, what we would like to do is work with educationalists and parents to 4915 get the best offering we can provide to the students that will be coming up to GCSE and A-levels over the coming years. Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Mr Hooper to ask a question. 4920 Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. I do wish the Minister had brought this for a debate rather than just tabling a Statement. There is a lot to unpack in this Strategy. I will try and make sure that all of my statements are in fact questions, but I apologise if that does not turn out to be the case. 4925 The first thing I would like to ask the Minister is he has taken recently to using the phrase ‘the education service’ rather than the Department, but in his remarks this morning and in the Strategy he has reverted back to ‘the Department’ again in his language. I would like to understand a bit more about why he has chosen to do that. In terms of early intervention, there is a lot of stuff in here about what the Department will 4930 need to do, but actually that is not a problem that is going to be addressed by the Department itself. What commitments has he had from the Council of Ministers, from other Departments that they are actually 100% bought in to some of this Strategy, because without that it is not going to succeed? In terms of funding, I was down at the Pre-School Assessment Centre recently and to see the 4935 work that they do with the limited resources available is absolutely outstanding and so that really brought home to me the fact that whatever changes are coming are going to need significant funding changes, perhaps to the funding models and investment. What has the Minister got to say on that? He talked about, in his remarks as well, engaging with all staff, and then he mentioned the 4940 policy hub and the consultation hub. Has he actually considered talking to staff directly, face-to- face workshops, actually engaging with people? The policy hub is great, the consultation hub is ______2805 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

great, but they are very much a call and response exercise, whereas you might get better outcomes and better results if you actually sat and engaged with the staff on a more individual basis. 4945 Talking about engaging with people on an individual basis, the Strategy also talks about measures of success in terms of curriculum, and it references that one of the measures of success the Department is outlining is consistently high levels of achievement in core areas of learning. Does the Department there mean individually high achievement or generalised high achievement? Is he talking about an individual achieving what they are capable of achieving, or is 4950 he talking about actually we just want kids to get high grades? Because part of the problem, I feel, with our current education system is perhaps too much of a focus on achievement and not enough focus on progress and on outcomes, and the Strategy in front of us does not seem to change that narrative at all. It still seems to focus on a very traditional and potentially outdated method of assessment of how well our education service is performing, how well children are performing. 4955 Perhaps refocusing some of this on outcomes rather than on achievement is something that should be considered. So again, some clarity on why that really is not coming through in the Strategic Plan will be very much appreciated.

The President: I call upon the Minister to reply. 4960 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for Ramsey for his comments. He has put a huge amount of time and effort in his previous role in the Department, and again I would like to thank him for that. 4965 I apologise if I slip between the Department and the education service, I actually feel that there is a separation but synchronicity between the two. The education service is all-encompassing and particularly reflects the schools, UCM and further in terms of pre-school. The Department, for too long, has been seen as very much a centre that then dictates what happens to that education service, but we need to tie that all together and integrate that. What this is, though, by its very 4970 definition, a Department strategy, but it is obviously working with all stakeholders within the education service to work with them and for them, and not at them. In terms of the commitment from other Departments, I can reassure him that only recently I have met with the new CEO of Social Care to try to get them on board, because a lot of the issues we are running into at the moment are based on previous decisions from previous administrations 4975 to split up the responsibility for children and young people into small units, whether it be Health and Social Care, whether it be the Department of Home Affairs, whether it would be Education, and fragment that; and what we are trying to do at the moment is bring that back together so that we can work together, have clear pathways. The Department for Health and Social Care know exactly those young people and children even at birth who will need ongoing care, who will need 4980 specialist educational provision – when they are born, or certainly in the early stages of life! We need to know that fairly quickly to then plan for their future and have a seamless transition not only through the education ages, but beyond that to allow people to achieve their potential. In terms of the pre-school assessment centre, I would completely agree with him. They do fantastic work, but again, as I have responded in a previous question from Mrs Caine, we need to 4985 work with also pre-school providers and have that ability to spot problems at an early stage and respond to them through early intervention, but he is also right in terms of changes to the funding models. Particularly on additional educational need, the funding model at the moment does not quite deliver what it should do and we need to look at that, not only how it is provided but the resources and investment behind it. 4990 In terms of the policy hub and consultation hubs, what we are trying to do there is rather than generate a departmental think-tank, sometimes co-opt other people into that from outside Hamilton House, as it is at the moment, and so co-opt teachers for short periods of time to work on policies. But I completely agree with him and I will commit to those face-to-face workshops ______2806 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

with staff on an individual basis, because we have some fantastic teachers and school staff on this 4995 Island, who have a great amount of experience, a great amount of knowledge of the people they care for and teach, and we should be utilising that far more in terms of developing policies and also long-term strategies. In terms of his question, whether we are talking about individual high achievement or generalised high achievement, I think we have to consider both. We have to make sure that people 5000 are not being held back and that they get to achieve their full potential, but really we should be looking at progress and outcomes rather than pure grades. I know we could then go on to a much longer debate about looking at grades and having league tables and everything like that. I think for a lot of parents it is important that they have confidence that their child will get the grades they deserve at school, that their child will be able to achieve exactly what they want; but at the 5005 same time, if we are actually going to embrace lifelong learning, we cannot get tied down by As to Cs. We have to look at the outcomes, we have to look to make sure that the young people who are coming out of the school are a tribute to our community, can take part in that community, whether that is by going to university or higher education or further education, or going straight into employment. All of them will be valued for the actual future they can make for themselves 5010 and the future they can give to the Isle of Man. Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Hon. Members, I would just like to remind that this is a Statement and therefore the opportunity for questions rather than a debate. 5015 I call upon Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. I would congratulate the Minister and officers for producing this strategy. What is the single ingredient that exists now that will lead to success for this strategy, compared with some of the 5020 other strategies in the last 20 years that have failed? My second question is: there is a 50-word statement of shared vision on page 7, but when the Minister was speaking I think he actually said something like ‘to inspire learning and enable everyone’; would that actually do as the vision statement for Education? Has he just rewritten those 50 words into five words? 5025 Thirdly, there are 20 strategic priorities in this document. I am not an expert but that sounds quite a lot. Would we be better with three or five or something like that? Fourthly, in the introduction the Minister refers to the separate strategies for arts, culture and sport; can the Minister be specific that he is referring to the National Development Strategy for Arts and Culture, the National Strategy for Sports? 5030 And beyond that, would the Minister consider specifying further a couple of other strategies in that context? One of them is the Language Strategy that I think has got equal weight to those two other ones. And the other one is: might it not be helpful, given the misunderstanding that happened around 2011-12, to actually have a Department of Education or an education service strategy for local authority and other libraries as well alongside the general Education Strategy? 5035 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. In terms of a single ingredient which will achieve success, I do not think there is one. However, 5040 what we need, as is in the Strategy, is trust in the system, actually getting people such as our teachers, such as our parents, such as our pupils engaged in the education service, because together we can achieve far more than just as a single entity. So I think it is an accumulation of all that. In terms of a single ingredient, there have been some very good strategies produced in the 5045 past and they have had some great words in them, but what has been lacking is a commitment to ______2807 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

deliver outcomes; and one of the things that this Strategy promises is an annual report which will be shared with Tynwald and also shared with parents, showing what the education service has done, showing what we have achieved, showing what we have not achieved and showing what we will go on to achieve. So I think if we can cement that and actually get people to engage with 5050 us on this journey, we will achieve success. In terms of the vision statement for Education, I think all of us will have a different one and that is fine. It could be five words, it could be 50, but I think if all of us agree that some of the key principles within this Strategy reflect what we want for the future of our Island that is absolutely fine with me. 5055 In terms of strategic priorities – should we have less or more? – I think this is ambitious. This is trying to achieve a huge amount. I hope by 2026 we will get there, but if we do not we will be honest about that and explain why. In terms of the other strategies, he is quite right; what we are referring to is the Arts, Culture and Creativity for Everyone Strategy, which is a fantastic document going from 2017 to 2027, and 5060 again talks about inspiring people and engaging people in terms of culture. Also the Isle of Man Sports Strategy, which again talks about getting more people involved and having more access to –

The President: Excuse me, Minister. There is a bit of feedback here. I believe somebody on 5065 Teams has their mic on. Could you please switch your mic off? (Interjection by the Deputy Clerk) They have muted, so please continue.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I did not take that as heckling, I was just wondering where it was coming from! (Laughter and interjections) 5070 In terms of other strategies, there are a whole plethora of them. We have got the Higher Education Strategy 2017-22, which has just been updated this March. But fundamental to all these is actually delivering the outcomes. In terms of libraries, and obviously the Hon. Member knows the history of libraries and how they have developed away from Education, certainly at the moment in terms of the resources we 5075 have, I see no apparent reason to actually bring them back into Education at the moment, but obviously we are debating this later on in the sitting because libraries are an inherently important part of lifelong learning and of making sure that everyone on our Island, whatever age, whatever background, has access to information and further resources. Thank you. 5080 The President: Thank you. I call upon Mrs Christian.

Mrs Christian: Thank you, Mr President. 5085 Actually, the Minister has just answered a little bit of this question, but does the Minister agree with me that a great deal of work still needs to be done on the lifelong learning strategy, focusing on how Government and businesses can remove barriers and support people, to make sure that every Manx citizen has access to education and training throughout their lives, wherever they live and whatever background they come from, to develop the skills they need for personal and 5090 professional development? Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to respond.

5095 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President, and I would like to thank the Hon. Member for her words.

______2808 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

I completely agree that lifelong learning is incredibly important. I apologise to this Court that we have not got the lifelong learning strategy that the Hon. Member was working on while she has been in the Department. What we have obviously, during the last 14 months, is recognised 5100 the importance of that access to reskilling, retraining, dealing with people during a pandemic when a large number of people were made unemployed and were looking for alternative ways of providing for their families and alternative ways of having income. As the Treasury Minister has said today, the numbers of unemployed have gone down quite dramatically, but we still need to build that workforce for the future. I am very grateful for the 5105 Members of this Hon. Court who sit on the Economic Recovery Group because they have seen that investing now in the future of our nation through lifelong learning, by providing the skills for the future, does not just help people now but will actually start a revolution in the way we work with business, we work with those employers to provide the future workforce, not only for the skills we need now, but the skills that we need for tomorrow. 5110 Thank you.

The President: Thank you. I call upon Mr Mercer.

5115 Mr Mercer: Thank you, Mr President. I welcome the Minister’s Statement and the contributions his Department is promising under the heading of ‘Corporate Responsibility’. But I would like to ask the Minister if he will undertake to ensure that the curriculum part of this strategy will contain the knowledge that our students will need to understand and address climate change? Also, would he also ensure that the teachers 5120 receive the training resources to enable them to do this effectively? Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to respond.

5125 The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. I am quite happy to give that commitment to the Hon. Member and also this Hon. Court. I think for far too long climate change has been lumped in with geography or human development. It is far more broad than that. Unfortunately, I think even now, and even with the events of the last couple of weeks, we can see it is touching all of our lives in some way and so it needs to be a far 5130 more holistic way of teaching in terms of climate change, the effects it has, but also our responsibility for taking actions to try to address it, and that certainly will be part of the curriculum. We have made that commitment. But we will be looking not only in terms of giving those teachers the skills to teach, but also looking at other resources we can utilise to bring into schools to teach about climate change and the adaptations we need to make to counter it for our 5135 Island and our future. Thank you.

The President: Thank you. I call upon Ms Edge to ask a question. 5140 Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. I thank the Minister for some of his commitments today. It is really just to reiterate what my hon. colleague for Ramsey, Mr Hooper, said. It is really disappointing that this strategy has come forward without an actual motion for a vote to make sure all Members are on board. It is disappointing it is a Statement. 5145 I do feel that it is a strategy of words that is not going to deliver anything different to the strategies we have seen in the past. There is certainly nothing new in there – I am certainly not reading anything new. I think what I would have liked to see is commitment to what gets delivered and the outcomes and obviously ‘strategy for success’, one of the areas in the document, it says ______2809 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

measure of success – apologies – that projects will be delivered, legislation policy will be reviewed, 5150 ‘workforce understands its roles and responsibilities’, ‘Department operates and interacts effectively with the wider Government’. What it does not say, Minister, and I would have expected to hear, was an external review or some review body that would monitor your success of the strategy that you are bringing forward. You also commented with regard to other strategies and I would have expected them to be 5155 also included in this document because when you bring a strategy forward for children and young people from the Education Department, I would expect it to have all policies that impact on that to be included in this higher-level strategy document and I do wonder whether you could review that. I know you have said you will come back to the Court with further detail, but I do feel that this document should have all strategies that could impact on it, so a curriculum strategy for 5160 example, to make sure that it is included at this level. I think there were some comments made with regard to getting teachers engaged in the education service. I think there will be a number of teachers today quite insulted with a comment like that. I think our teachers are very engaged in making sure all of their students come out with the right outcomes, and I do wonder whether that was just a little bit of a slip of the tongue really, 5165 because I know, as Minister, that you certainly do value what all of the staff in the schools do. Just one little last point. When I first saw the structural chart of the Department, I thought, oh great, it is going from the bottom up, but then I realised it was going from side to side as well. I do feel that communicating with all people in Education is key. I am aware that perhaps that has not happened at this stage, but you have given the promise that you will make sure that that does 5170 happen and I think it would have helped if it would have been done before this strategy came before the Hon. Court. Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to respond. 5175 The Minister: Well, thank you very much, Mr President. I would like to obviously thank the Member for Onchan for her comments, and I am sorry that she is a bit disappointed. Certainly I was not insulting teachers; I do not think I did. I think there has been an issue with the culture of the Department in the way it has engaged with teachers that 5180 has made them less likely to become engaged and this Hon. Court has discussed this in the past. My role now, and the role of everyone involved in the Department and our liaisons with schools and the wider education service is to get that engagement back on track. The Hon. Member says that there is nothing new in this, and in some ways the words are very similar to the Strategy for Children and Young People 2015-2020 which talked about early 5185 intervention, talked about skills, talked about everything. Did it deliver? The jury is out, because what this did not do was review the outcomes, and I think she is right: we have to get the outcomes and make sure that any strategy we have actually does the job it is meant to do and is constantly reviewed, and having an annual review will do that. In terms of the wording of it, as I have said already, this is a high-level document and 5190 underpinning that will be a whole range of different policies and strategies, and hopefully the Hon. Court will see those coming out over the summer when we actually have a chance to work with the policy hub to develop these and publish these. She also makes the point in terms of monitoring the performance of the Department itself, and certainly that is something I will take on board because apart from what we do through the 5195 Strategy in presenting that to Tynwald, we will also be looking at our own internal reviews to make sure that the Department is actually providing the support, advice and also the resources to the educational service that they need to actually get the outcomes that we need for our young people. Thank you. 5200 ______2810 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

The President: I call upon Mr Shimmins to ask his question.

Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr President. Just building on what Dr Allinson has just said, the strategy does feel very similar to previous 5205 strategies, so my key question is: it is all very well having a strategy but how are you going to deliver improvements? The second question is it is very generic, it is a corporate, it is difficult to argue with different aspects of it, so in some ways this is a bit of an unsatisfactory forum to debate it, to be honest – not debate, we are asking questions; again, that is a bit odd. But the five-year timescale, I was 5210 looking in the strategy for a timeline. So if we are going to be smart, which I absolutely would suggest is great, who is going to do it and when is it going to be done by? That is missing. So I would suggest that the times, timelines need to be inserted in this and just saying this whole thing is going to be delivered in five years does not give me that much faith that it will all be delivered in five years. 5215 So how can you persuade me that actually you are going to deliver this, or rather the education service will deliver this? It might be better to chunk it down into specifics, would be my suggestion. But I welcome your response, please.

The President: Minister to respond. 5220 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President, and I would like to thank the Hon. Member for Middle. I am impatient as well. We need change. We need outcomes, we need to deliver, and I completely understand his comments and his frustration. How do we deliver these improvements? We actually work with the people in the education service, we engage with them, 5225 we make sure that we have got that common vision and we go forward. In some ways I agree with him that it is generic and corporate because this is a collaborative document and we need buy-in from everyone, but what I can commit is that what we are doing at the moment in terms of the policy and consultation hubs is trying to get those really key aspects done now. So we are looking at vocational training, we are looking at Student Awards now, we 5230 will deliver those by the end of this year. We will then move on to some of the other key priorities. We are already doing an awful lot of work in terms of additional educational needs, as I have said, those children who are on the margins, because that is a pressing problem now, but then we will be developing further policies and certainly once we have scoped out some of the issues and some of the extent of the issues we will provide timelines in terms of what we can deliver and actually 5235 stick to those timelines so that we can achieve those. Thank you.

The President: I call upon Mrs Maska.

5240 Mrs Maska: Thank you, Mr President. I wonder if the Minister could agree with me that the inclusion of the title ‘Culture’ within the Department’s title is appropriate and is actually at last being recognised within this strategy in that at last we have a division within the Department which is entitled the Culture Division and the value of arts and culture is being recognised at last and the full potential of every child, 5245 whether it be an academic child with that potential or other skills, vocational skills, artistic and cultural skills, which maybe have not been encouraged and given access to these training opportunities and learning opportunities in the past, hopefully now is going to have a much greater potential in the future? Given that I think it has been recognised, the contribution that arts and culture can make in the difficult experience of COVID. The engagement I know that the 5250 Arts Council has received has just grown out of any recognisable proportion to historic engagement; the same with Culture Vannin.

______2811 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

So would the Minister agree that this inclusion that sits under the strategy that we are looking at today, but the national strategy for arts and culture jointly with Culture Vannin is an important ingredient to give confidence to our young people and those across our community in the future? 5255 Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to respond.

The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. 5260 I completely agree with the Hon. Member of Council, Mrs Maska. One of the essences on the Department of Education, Sport and Culture is that whilst those are sometimes seen as separate entities, they merge together, because if we are going to be talking about lifelong learning, if we are going to be talking about engaging people, increasing access, we need to do that not just through education in schools, in UCM, but also by getting people more engaged in sport, getting 5265 people more engaged with culture. And the strategy for arts and culture really rests on three key actions which are to inspire, to promote, but also to generate ambition, and those work very well with education. She uses the word ‘inclusion’ in terms of the inclusion of arts and culture within the Department. But I see arts and culture as creating inclusion within our society as well, and that is 5270 why it is incredibly important that that is a really key part of what the Department does, but also what the education service does as well. I would love to foster that passion, that ambition in young people when they are given the ability to visit some of our great institutions, such as the Gaiety Theatre. Thank you. 5275 The President: The last question will go to Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thanks, Mr President. Just a quick one for the Minister. I am really concerned about the review process and the 5280 Minister said that the Department will be looking at all of its internal things, and it sounded to me like the Department would be reviewing itself. I would like to see some commitment from the Minister that it will be an external independent review of this strategy and to make sure that things are implemented and that Department … I am sure there are many teachers on the Island who would welcome Ofsted at this stage, following the Beamans Report. 5285 Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Minister to respond.

The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President, and I thank the Hon. Member for her 5290 comments. I was not going to use the ‘O’ word, because that tends to get teachers running often, but what she is talking about is an Ofsted inspection of the Department itself, and that has been mooted in the past. We have had the Beamans Report earlier on this year, we now, as the Hon. Member for Middle has said, we need to deliver, need to actually create the strategy and go forward. The annual 5295 reports will be obviously looking at our performance, but I certainly will not rule out any external review of the Department. Once we have actually got this strategy under way, and we can show that we are changing, we are working, we are looking at a change in the culture and our relationships with the people who work in the education service. Thank you. 5300 The President: Thank you.

______2812 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

6. Concessionary Travel Scheme – Statement by the Minister for Infrastructure

The President: We move on to Item number 6, and I call on the Minister for Infrastructure to make a statement.

5305 The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): Thank you, Mr President. I would like to update Hon. Members on the commitment I made on 15th February 2021, to review the policies applicable to the issuing of concessionary fares on public transport and lay a new Concessionary Travel Scheme before Tynwald, as provided for by the Isle of Man Passenger Transport Act 1982, as amended by the Concessionary Travel Schemes Act 2016. This commitment 5310 arose from an identified need to address an equality issue regarding the Go Gold disability travel concession, which discriminates against people with a disability and is contrary to the requirements of the Equality Act 2017. The current policy position is that eligibility for a Go Gold travel concession card is linked to eligibility for a Go Silver senior travel concession card. When a Go Gold card holder reaches the 5315 age of eligibility for a Go Silver card, the Gold card expires and the cardholder applies for a Go Silver card. The current age of eligibility for a Go Silver travel card is 64. This been increasing over a number of years and will align with state pension age by 2025. In progressing the Concessionary Travel Scheme, my Department undertook a four-week consultation during the period 20th April to 18th May of this year. The consultation generated 5320 significant public interest and received a total of 863 responses. It is clear to me that this consultation has identified some significant issues that I will need to address with the Ministers of the various social policy Departments, in particular the Minister for Health and Social Care and the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture. That will take time, Mr President, but I do not want to allow the current Go Gold card situation to continue whilst we resolve the wider issues. 5325 To that end, the Department will change its concessionary fares policy from August 2021 to allow Go Gold card disability concessions to continue past retirement. Applications will be welcomed from former Go Gold travel card holders, whose expired cards were replaced with a Go Silver travel concession card. New Go Gold cards will be issued to these applicants subject to meeting the disability concessionary travel criteria. 5330 I can also confirm to Hon. Members that a formal Concessionary Travel Scheme will be laid before Tynwald later this year, in accordance with the enabling powers in the Isle of Man Passenger Transport Act 1982, as amended. The formal scheme will regularise the legal position regarding concessionary fares, which is based on a 1983 scheme which was approved by Tynwald and amended in 1987. The scheme required half fares to be charged for pensioners and disabled 5335 people who were defined with reference to section 27(1) of the National Assistance (Isle of Man) Act 1951 and which contained very outdated definitions. The phased approach I have outlined here today will ensure that the identified equality issues are addressed imminently, whilst ensuring that sufficient time is given to meeting the Public Sector Equality Duty and to completing the exercise in a fully considered manner. In the meantime 5340 I hope that Hon. Members can be reassured that progress is being made in identifying and addressing this very important issue and will welcome this progressive step in terms of the Go Gold card. Thank you.

5345 The President: Loayreyder to ask a question.

The Speaker: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. I think that is great news and I welcome the news from the Minister about the Gold Cards. Also, as part of that consultation, will the Minister advise whether consideration is ongoing with regard 5350 to an armed forces or veterans scheme within the Concession Travel Scheme? ______2813 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Mr Quine: Hear, hear.

The President: Minister to reply.

5355 The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. Firstly, I would like to thank the Speaker for his welcoming of the step that is being made here today. In responding to the second part of his question, that was not a theme that particularly came through strongly in the concession responses. However, I am happy to take that specific point 5360 back to the officers and, as we work up the approach in conjunction with the Department of Health and Social Care and the Department for Education, Sport and Culture, happy to consider that at the same time, Mr President.

The President: Thank you. 5365 I call upon Mr Hooper to ask a question.

Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to very much thank the Minister for his statement. It is a really positive move in the right direction. I am really glad to see that they are doing something rather than waiting and 5370 waiting to do nothing. That is a really positive approach to delivering this. The question I had for the Minister though is: I am sure I heard this in his statement, that he said people that were currently on a Gold Card are not going to be now taken off them, they are going to keep the Gold Cards they currently have, and he said that people who previously would not have been eligible can now apply again from August. 5375 Can he just confirm as well that those individuals who were on a Gold Card and had it taken off them and replaced with a Silver Card, they are now eligible to reapply to have that Gold Card reinstated? It is just that I am pretty sure I heard him say that that would be the case, but just for clarity.

5380 The President: Minister to respond.

The Minister: Yes, thank you. Again, I would like to thank the Hon. Member for Ramsey for his comments and also acknowledge that this step was prompted by his motion a few months ago. The Department was 5385 ambitious in broadening the scope of it, but I know this was the part that the Hon. Member was particularly concerned about. So I thank him for his contribution to this and acknowledge that. It is a balance between being pragmatic and getting something done, and looking for perfection. We all want perfection, we all want it now, but sometimes it is very difficult to get there, and I would rather address the specific issue that we are doing here and come back and 5390 address the much wider issue, which is grounded in some very dated legislation which does need sorting out. So in terms of the specific question that the Hon. Member asked: yes, those who have had their card removed from them will be able to reapply. There are some people who had Gold Cards and arguably they should not have had those, perhaps because the reason they were given the 5395 card was perhaps a passing condition or maybe the gatekeeping around the issue of the card was not as robust as one would like it to be. So we are not saying automatically that everyone who had one will get one back, but everyone who had one who wishes to apply for it to be reinstated will have that opportunity and it will be considered on the proper merits of their case.

5400 The President: I ask Ms Edge to ask her question.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. ______2814 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Can the Minister just confirm that, with regard to the likes of individuals that support members of their family who perhaps have reached the age to get a Gold Card – for example, people 5405 suffering from dementia might be the 60-year-old, but they might have a younger person who supports them and takes them out on the transport services. Has the Minister considered that? Because certainly that came up during the questions that had brought them to bring forward this new concessionary travel. Thank you, Mr President. 5410 The President: Minister to reply.

The Minister: Yes, thank you, Mr President. The Hon. Member has touched on an important part of the scheme and the provision for 5415 people who need carers to accompany them, and that was one of the issues around the transition between the different forms of card. So I believe that this step of reinstating the Gold eligibility addresses much of those concerns and the residual issues will all be dealt with in the second stage of the scheme.

5420 The President: Is that a further question, Ms Edge?

Ms Edge: Yes, sorry, could I just seek some further clarification from the Minister? Some individuals do not put themselves forward for carer’s allowance, they just care for their families. How will the Minister take that into consideration, because normally with a policy like 5425 this you have to be on one of the benefits systems or a Carer’s Allowance; but there are large numbers on the Island who just care for their elderly vulnerable or people with illness without claiming that? Thank you, Mr President.

5430 The President: Minister.

The Minister: Yes, thank you, Mr President. Again, the Hon. Member makes an important point. I cannot give you an answer off the cuff right now, but I am happy to take that point away and to look at it with officers. Clearly there is a 5435 balance to be had here between genuinely supporting people who need the support of carers and potentially expanding a free travel service far and wide. We need to make sure obviously that we are supporting those who have got a real need here, and it is about the detail of that process. So happy to take that away, Mr President, and to look at it with officers.

5440 The President: Thank you.

7. Auditor General selection process – Statement by Mr Speaker

The President: We now move on to Item 7, the Auditor General selection process. Loayreyder to make a Statement.

The Speaker: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. 5445 Members will recall that the statutory committee that has the duty of recruiting an Auditor General put before Tynwald the terms and conditions for the appointment, which were agreed. The committee proceeded to advertise the post, as I indicated it when I last spoke on the matter. The Office of Human Resources assisted in the preparation of the necessary advertisement and ______2815 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

information for candidates, as well as advising on the process for selection. I wish to thank them 5450 for their engagement in this process, which was very helpful. A tight deadline, but the closing date for applications was 14th June. The Committee planned to hold interviews shortly thereafter, with the selection committee deciding on an appointee to recommend to Tynwald as soon as possible. The overall aim was to allow Tynwald to agree to the appointment at this sitting, to allow the new Tynwald Auditor General to be in post for the 5455 autumn. An interesting range of candidates responded, but we did not receive applicants from those with sufficiently strong public sector experience. The committee decided not to interview any of the applicants. Given the importance of this role and in particular, the responsibilities of the first incumbent to establish the post properly, the committee has decided to re-advertise in the autumn after the 5460 General Election. This will necessarily involve a differently composed selection committee, as the Chief Minister will have retired and the other Members may or may not be in the same roles as before. I very much hope that the selection committee will be able to take this matter forward at the earliest opportunity. The appointment of a Tynwald Auditor General is one of great significance in the 5465 proper scrutiny of value for money obtained by the Government.

The President: Mr Thomas to ask a question.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. 5470 I really do thank the Speaker and everybody else involved for taking forward this process so enthusiastically. I note that in the Item 16 Report, we have the conclusion that all aspects of the financing of Isle of Man Meats should be examined by the soon-to-be appointed Auditor General as a matter of urgency. Do I understand correctly, then, that the Auditor General is unlikely to be in post until the next financial year or in the new year, or what is your best estimate of when the 5475 Auditor General is likely to be imposed?

Mr Baker: Point of order.

The President: Point of order, Mr Baker? 5480 Mr Baker: Yes, if I could. The Hon. Member for Douglas Central has referred to a comment made in the Report for Item 16. Item 16 on the Meat Plant has no recommendations so he is asking Mr Speaker about how this is going to be taken forward? That is not a recommendation of that Report. There are no 5485 recommendations from that Report. So I just wondered, I think that is an important point, Mr President.

The Speaker: Mr President, I took it as an indication that the Hon. Member just wanted a bit more detail on the timescale. The idea would be that as soon as is reasonably practical after the 5490 new selection committee would be appointed; in other words, after the appointment of the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, after the election of a Speaker and after the election of a Chief Minister, that would be the earliest point at which the selection committee could then convene and then determine the process for recruitment. I would hope that it would not take as long as the new financial year. Maybe at the back end 5495 of the end of this financial year, but certainly it is something that we hope will be expedited as soon as possible in the new administration by that committee.

The President: I am content that there is no point of order and the Speaker has satisfactorily responded there. 5500 So, anyone else with a question? No. Thank you. ______2816 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

8. Supplementary Capital Authority – DoI expenditure – Debate commenced

The Minister for Infrastructure to move:

That Tynwald authorises the Department of Infrastructure to expend from the Capital Transactions Account in respect of the year ended 31st March 2021: (a) £1,837,193 for the Public Transport Vehicle Replacement Project; (b) £580,392 brought forward from the Tynwald approved 2021-22 capital budget for the Strategic Structural Maintenance project in relation to previously accelerated spending; and That Tynwald authorises the Department of Infrastructure to expend from the Capital Transactions Account in respect of the year ended 31st March 2022: (c) £888,000 brought forward from the 2022-23 capital budget for the Secondary Waste Incinerator project in relation to accelerated spending.

The President: We now move on to Item 8, the Supplementary Capital Authority. The Minister for Infrastructure to move.

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Baker): Thank you, Mr President. 5505 The Department of Infrastructure has responsibility for by far the largest capital programme in Government, with 48 active projects last year and a total spend of £49 million. Managing such a large portfolio is complex. The process of Tynwald approving capital spend has remained unchanged for many years and focuses on approvals for a single year at a time when, in fact, capital projects often run for multiple years. 5510 I understand that Treasury is reviewing the way in which Tynwald approves the capital budget and will be bringing forward proposals for a new process in the coming Budget round. However, for capital spending in the last financial year 2020-21 and in the current financial year 2021-22, the existing process is that in-year spend cannot exceed the column 1 and column 2 amounts approved by Tynwald during the Budget motion. 5515 When setting the Pink Book, Departments must forecast year-end spend for each capital project in October and in many cases, a lot can change in the five or six months that follow. Therefore, the figures in column 1 of the capital budget tables, which represent carry-forward amounts, are always estimates that cannot be exceeded under the current approval process. Column 2 figures represent new approvals for the year, but again are estimates based on the 5520 assumed carry-forward amount. Mr President, this motion consists of three discrete elements relating to capital spend by the Department. Firstly, the Public Transport Vehicle Replacement Project, which is a complex scheme. There is a long lead time for the vehicles which can take many months to be delivered and therefore cross financial years, thus adding a further layer of complexity. In October 2020, 5525 Government’s Audit Advisory Division completed a review of the Scheme over the past few years and identified that a number of errors had been made in the Pink Book, which would cause an accumulative error. The audit report concluded that the overspend had been a result of several errors, mainly arising from the presentation of the 2018-19 Pink Book, and calculated that a supplementary vote of £2.4 million was justified based on the error values. However, the 5530 Department is only seeking the amount required to correct the in-year position, which is £1,837,193. A Supplementary Capital Authority of this value also addresses the cumulative position. There is no budgeted or planned spend in the current financial year, but approval of the Supplementary Capital Authority will address the cumulative position. Secondly, turning to the Strategic Structural Maintenance Project. The cumulative overspend 5535 is £580,392. This relates to accelerated spending on the Programme, which has exceeded the cumulative Tynwald-approved amount. During last year, schemes were accelerated and the actual ______2817 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

spend was higher than predicted, causing this cumulative overspend of £580,392. Projects completed from this Budget during the financial year included Laxey River wall remedial works, Laxey breakwater repair and work on the West Bradda retaining wall. As Tynwald has already 5540 approved a Budget of £2.1 million for the current year 2021-22, the Department is seeking approval to utilise some of that budget to offset the accelerated spending on the scheme. No additional budget is required. This is a timing difference only. Spending will be adjusted in the current financial year to accommodate this request. Finally, I turn to the secondary waste incinerator. This request is to seek approval for 5545 accelerating funding into the current financial year from next year’s capital budget. The secondary waste incinerator is a high-temperature incinerator operating at over 1,000 degrees and is used for the disposal of hazardous waste. This unit is no longer fit for purpose. The Department has previously submitted a business case for a replacement facility, which is included in the current Pink Book, with an estimated cost of £2 million, of which £200,000 was approved for the current 5550 year. Recently, this incinerator has failed, and there is now a clear need to commence works to replace the incinerator as a matter of urgency. Treasury has advised that the appropriate approach is to secure Tynwald approval to bring forward budget from next year, i.e. 2022-23, into the current year. The Department is therefore seeking £888,000 to be brought forward from the 2022-23 Budget to be utilised in the current year based on estimates from the current operator 5555 of the facility. In summary, then, Mr President, the Department of Infrastructure is seeking Tynwald approval for (a) additional budget of £1,837,193 for the Public Transport Vehicle Replacement budget as a result of errors in the Pink Book; (b) transferring £580,392 of the 2021-22 budget for the accelerated Strategic Structural Maintenance Scheme into the last financial year; and (c) bringing 5560 forward £888,000 of the budget for the secondary waste incinerator from next year into the current financial year. As such, Mr President, I beg to move the motion standing in my name.

The President: Mrs Christian. 5565 Mrs Christian: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second and reserve my remarks.

The President: Thank you. I think this is probably an opportune time to take a tea break. It is coming up to 25 past. So if we leave it for half an hour from now, we will resume proceedings.

The Court adjourned at 5.23 p.m. and resumed its sitting at 5.55 p.m.

Announcement of Royal Assent – Church Property Measure (Isle of Man) Act 2021; Human Tissue and Organ Donation Act 2021; International Co-operation (Protection from Liability) Act 2021; Justice Reform Act 2021; Sexual Offences and Obscene Publications Act 2021; Sky Lantern and Balloons (Prohibition) Act 2021; and Statute Law Revision Act 2021

5570 The President: Hon. Members, we shall now resume proceedings. Before we go back to our Order Paper I would like to announce that Royal Assent has today been given to: the Church Property Measure (Isle of Man) Act 2021; the Human Tissue and Organ Donation Act 2021; the International Co-operation (Protection from Liability) Act 2021; the Justice Reform Act 2021; the Sexual Offences and Obscene Publications Act 2021; the Sky Lantern and 5575 Balloons (Prohibition) Act 2021; and the Statute Law Revision Act 2021. ______2818 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Leave of absence granted

The President: I would also like the Court to be aware that Mr Callister has leave of absence tonight from seven o’clock and the Lord Bishop will also have leave of absence for Thursday, if we are still sitting – I expect we probably are! (Laughter) Thank you.

8. Supplementary Capital Authority – Debate concluded – DoI expenditure approved

5580 The President: Now, back to Item 8, which has been moved and seconded. I would like to call upon Mrs Lord-Brennan.

Mrs Lord-Brennan: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask, if I could, that (a), (b) and (c) might be voted on separately. When I first saw 5585 (a), the request for further funding for the Public Transport Vehicle Replacement Project, I thought, surely there is going to be some more information on this? It has been explained, I think, unless I have misunderstood, that it is additional budget and my initial reaction was we do not have a transport plan, I do not really know what we are funding, do not really know what we are paying for. 5590 The other point is that the DoI capital spending is just completely out of control and I think that sometimes we get things put forward to us saying, ‘Well, you know, it’s very complex and it’s very difficult’ and I know these things are, but I just think that is that then something that just makes us think, right, okay, we are used to this now, just going to support it, and I just find that for (a), given no transport plan, given not much clarification as to what this is for, I personally cannot use 5595 my vote to support (a). I will for (b) and (c). These topics and things will probably come up again this sitting, I think. Thank you, Mr President.

The President: Mr Hooper. 5600 Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. Very much like the previous speaker, I have got concerns about the way this is being presented. So the second two aspects I think were explained quite well by the Minister. He is just bringing forward expenditure that he was already going to spend that has already been approved. That I 5605 think makes sense. The first part, though, is unclear as to whether this is additional spending, spending that was not planned, whether it is spending that was always going to go ahead and it has just fallen through the cracks somewhere in one of the processes. I am just a bit unclear as to exactly where this sits. But my real issue with this motion is like I have said before, and I will probably keep saying: a 5610 financial motion to Tynwald asking for millions of pounds’ worth of expenditure cannot just be a few notes on the Order Paper. What we have in front of us, and all the public have, is that small amount of detail that is included. There are not any notes surrounding it, there is no paperwork, there is nothing that actually says, ‘This is what the money was for.’ In terms of the buses, I am not even sure we have had a proper explanation as to why this 5615 money was there, why it is needed. So I appreciate the Minister did outline some of this stuff in his remarks, but really, for me, if you are going to come here and ask me to spend £2 million, you need to have provided a bit more of an explanation I think in advance for the public to have a better understanding really of what the logic is. ______2819 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

So I am happy to support the second two parts of the ask, the request, but the first bit around 5620 the buses I just need a bit more clarity before I can definitely back it, and the clarity for me is around what happened. Is this additional funding? Is it funding that was always going to be spent and it is fallen through the cracks or is it just something that is completely about an overspend? I am just unclear on the exact nature of it. Thank you, Mr President. 5625 The President: I call upon Mr Thomas.

Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. I would associate myself with both of the requests of the previous two speakers – I would hope 5630 we could vote on each item separately – and secondly, to me it is surprising, unusual, but perhaps more usual in this sort of circumstance, not to have a clearly worked-up paper in a public, Order Paper version for this amount of expenditure. I want to add a few things. There is also an unanswered question I have got from the last sitting of the House of Keys to do with directions from the Council of Ministers to Departments and conceivably Treasury was 5635 directed along the way in respect of the Public Transport Vehicle Replacement Programme. That is just something that I needed to understand, because obviously Treasury concurrence is a very important thing for me. Obviously I have got lived experience of all of this and having discussed this with a few members of the establishment in the Isle of Man in the olden days it was never the case that Treasury was directed, but perhaps more and more Treasury is being directed, which 5640 makes, perhaps conceivably, a mockery of the Treasury concurrence in the Treasury Act 1985. The second point is that I could not help but notice that the Minister said in his explanation that there was something to do with confusion in the 2018-19 Pink Book or Government Accounts and that seemed to me to be a bit of a red flag, and I want to know more about that confusion. Conceivably, two lots of expenditure, expending divisions were told that they had permission to 5645 expend the same amount of money at the same time. So I have the privilege, and have done for quite a number of years, to represent Douglas Central, where there are a lot of firemen living and there is a lot of talk on the street amongst the fireman community that this is something to do with fire engines and so on, and so on. And somehow money that had been approved by Tynwald for a fire engine somehow was being used for buses or something like that. So perhaps that is 5650 what we mean about the confusion in 2018-19, or perhaps it is not. So essentially I am having real problems understanding where all of this has come from. Obviously over recent years we have got into the habit of making adjustments given to do with different accounting periods and different presentations, but if it is something to do with the same amount of money having been presented twice and if it is something to do with Tynwald approval 5655 not really being there and this is overspend, that would be a different kettle of fish. So I am looking for a very straight answer in respect of that. Also, in terms of the secondary incinerator, when I started my political career we had a 2012 waste management strategy; that was replaced by a 2018 waste management strategy, and it has been suggested to me recently that that has effectively been torn up. So I am quite concerned 5660 about … and I also know that we have a 25-year natural monopoly agreement with SITA for the Energy from Waste Plant. So therefore, to me, it seems to me that we need to actually think about the secondary waste incinerator in the context of the overall waste management strategy and I would like to have a bit more explanation about how that relates to any negotiations that have taken place in the context of the waste management strategy and more particularly about the 5665 destination for waste. Obviously the secondary waste incinerator is not the same as the primary incinerator, there are all sorts of different things that are burnt in there. It is probably not connected at all, but I just do not know what the connections are. But I do know what has been talked about for my whole political career in terms of rationalising the arrangements. 5670 ______2820 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

The President: I call upon Loayreyder.

The Speaker: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Well, I am sorry to say that Mr Thomas has taken all my fun away from me. In terms of the 5675 issue around fire engines, I suspect it is the fact that there was an issue where the DHA had bought a fire engine with a maintenance contract bought with capital money and Fleet Services kept the revenue budget as well. So that might have been the one he was thinking of; we sorted that one out at the Public Accounts Committee. In terms of this ongoing cumulative error in the Budget, which has been ongoing for three 5680 years, could the Minister tell us more about that? Is it connected to the Treasury directive that was issued about public transport vehicle replacement? That was something that was raised in Mr Thomas’s question and I just want to make sure that this is not an extra approval process because of that direction. Would the Minister also concur that given that this is now some two years later, and this has 5685 been a cumulative error that has been allowed to sit in the Pink Book two years later, is further scrutiny of the Pink Book required as part of the process; but also what has been done to improve that process to make sure that these errors are not carrying forward and not being repeated? What checks are being put in place to make sure that this is not an ongoing issue and something that is more endemic within the Pink Book? So the question really is how also then was it 5690 discovered? Thank you, Eaghtyrane.

The President: I call upon Mrs Caine.

5695 Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. Likewise, I have a couple of queries for the Minister, please. First of all, on the Public Transport Vehicle Replacement Project, the £1.8 million required: can the Minister give a breakdown of the eco-credentials of the new purchases and give us any reassurance that they are increasingly environmentally friendly, if not electric or other alternative fuels? 5700 But my main worry is about item (c), the £888,000 brought forward. I think the Minister said the high-temperature incinerator has failed, and if that is the case, what is happening to the materials that it is there to serve? Can the Minister give reassurance that no dioxins or contaminants are being released into the atmosphere? Sharing the concerns of the Hon. Member for Douglas Central, Mr Thomas, does the Minister 5705 feel that he has delivered on the Waste Strategy at all, especially considering other hazardous waste materials are being still taken to Wright’s Pit North? I believe that still is outside of planning consent and still no alternative facility has been constructed or even a planning application put in for. So I would like the Minister to respond to those points. Thank you, Mr President. 5710 The President: Thank you. I call on the mover to respond.

Ms Edge: Mr President?

5715 The President: Apologies, Ms Edge, you did say, so thank you, if you could now give your contribution.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President – apologies. I would just like, like other Members, some clarification from the Minister, because I did raise 5720 the concern about public transport and the additional buses some time ago in questioning it, or it was in the Budget.

______2821 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

I understand, and whether the Minister can confirm this, that there were possibly two orders placed. So there was an order placed for eight buses and then there was another order placed for another eight buses, and that is the reason why you are having to come forward to get the 5725 additional funding. So I suppose the question is what has the Minister done to tighten up on the orders process to make sure that that does not happen? I understand it was possibly a situation during COVID and that buses may not have arrived so another eight were ordered. If that is the case, just to pick up on what Mrs Caine has just said with regard to the replacement project, clearly the replacement project is going to be out by one year because we have received 5730 16 buses in one year. So I just wonder how the Minister is going to make sure that we are not coming forward for two lots of buses at the same time next time round. How is he going to look at that maintenance and make sure that it stretches out to cover it? With regard to the infrastructure for the waste incinerator and secondary waste incinerator project, it seems quite cheap and reasonable, actually, to get rid of our waste in comparison to 5735 eight buses! But you have commented that it has failed, as other Hon. Members have questioned. How long has it been out of action? Was it only programmed for replacement in 2022-23, and was it a failure in maintenance prior to that, and we have not had the lifespan out of the asset; and has that been challenged? Okay. Thank you, Mr President. 5740 The President: Thank you. I call upon the Minister to respond.

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President, and I thank all Members for their questions and 5745 comments. I appreciate this is not an easy motion for Members to get behind, and it is unsatisfactory in many ways. If I can just provide a general response and then I will try and take Members’ specific questions, certainly the bus element is a historic piece of accounting tidying-up. This has been brought forward at the request of Treasury. It is their Pink Book and they have asked that we bring 5750 forward this motion to get the relevant authorisation over expenditure which has historically occurred and which has been picked up by the Audit Advisory Division. So my understanding is that something has gone wrong in the Treasury processes around the production of the Pink Books. Now, no Member of Treasury has spoken to this motion, so I am having to give my view of it, but if the Treasury Minister or any Member of Treasury wants to take 5755 floor, I am happy to give way. However, this is not new money. We are not buying any new buses. There are no eco- credentials from this. This is tidying up something historic that has been identified by an audit review where it has not gone through the proper processes and has not been brought before this Hon. Court for approval, and that is what we are doing here. It is historic and, to reiterate, there 5760 is no budget for our planned spend in the current financial year for new buses. So I do not know if that helps clarify things, but it is historic. In terms of the secondary incinerator, it is an integral part of our waste treatment strategy. It is useful for incinerating specialist waste. I think that some of that includes the sharps from the Hospital, but I am quite happy to advise Hon. Members of the detail of that. But it plays its own 5765 role in our Waste Strategy and it is important. My understanding is that it has not lasted as long as was originally expected, partly because the volumes have not been as predicted and the lifespan of this type of equipment depends on how it is run and the temperature it is run at and the length of operational period, and it does not suit it to be run in short batches and then closed down, which I understand is what has happened because of the volumes of material that have 5770 been provided to it. But I am happy to write to Hon. Members to clarify that, because I appreciate this is quite technical. It is an approved capital spend in this year’s and next year’s Budget; it was in the Pink Book that the Treasury Minister presented; it is just that the phasing of the spend needs to be brought ______2822 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

forward because it has now failed, whereas it was viewed as being close to end of life. Hon. 5775 Members, that is what happens if assets are pushed to the end of their life and they fail, then there needs to be a reaction to address the issues that that causes. So I hope those general comments have helped. In terms of the specific comments, Mrs Lord- Brennan, this is not additional budget in terms of buses. I cannot accept your comment that the capital spend is completely out of control in the Department. I just cannot accept that at all – 5780 Mrs Lord-Brennan: Can the Minister give way?

The Minister: Yes, happy to.

5785 Mrs Lord-Brennan: It is just that I write notes sometimes, and I am pretty sure that it was described as being additional budget and the term ‘overspend’ was used in describing (a), quite differently from how (b) and (c) were described. So I am just wondering if there is some way, through whatever process, the money has been spent and maybe has not been approved and now we are being asked to approve it now. I just do not understand. 5790 Thank you – thank you for giving way.

The Minister: No, it is a pleasure, and I understand that because it is not particularly clear in terms of why this has all occurred over the years. But it came out of an Audit Advisory review in October 2020, which was looking back over a number of years and identified that a number of 5795 errors had been made in the Pink Book which were causing a cumulative error. So this is, as I say, at the request of Treasury to tidy all this up and bring it forward for approval by this Hon. Court. It mainly arose from the presentation of the 2018-19 Pink Book, which calculates the supplementary vote of £2.4 million was justified and we were requesting £1.837193 million to correct that at this point in time, which addresses the cumulative and the historic position. 5800 So it is retrospective. It is not particularly satisfactory that we are doing this, but it is something that has happened and we have been asked to bring it to this Hon. Court for appropriate resolution. But we are not going out and spending new money on buses as a result of this process. I think that probably speaks to Mr Hooper’s question as well. Mr Thomas, this is not about fire engines; it is about buses and in terms of the overall waste 5805 management strategy, I think I have touched on that already. Mr Speaker, you ask about further scrutiny around this. I am quite happy for the Public Accounts Committee or the relevant scrutiny bodies to look at that.

The Speaker: The system is broken. 5810 The Minister: I have got nothing that I am concerned about that. Appropriate scrutiny, it would seem relevant here. Mrs Caine, as I have said, there are no new buses so I can comment on the eco-credentials. You broadened it out and asked about the Waste Strategy. You asked a direct question: no, I am 5815 not satisfied with the progress that we have made as a Government on our Waste Strategy. It is disappointing that we still taking material to Wright’s Pit North, which is in my own constituency, and that we have not got further progress with a strategic waste landfill site, which was part of the Programme for Government, and that is disappointing. But we are where we are, unfortunately. 5820 Ms Edge, you talked about issues during the COVID period. Clearly, the Audit review pre-dates that. It looks backwards. So I do not think that it relates to the issues that you have thought it might do. In terms of the secondary incinerator, I think I have addressed that in terms of the lifespan of the asset, but I am happy to write to Hon. Members to clarify. With that, Mr President, I beg to move. 5825 ______2823 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

The President: Thank you. So we have before us a request to take these parts in a formal motion. So I put to the Court that this will be done in part (a), part (b) and the remaining part of the motion as listed on the Order Paper for Item 8. So with the Court’s consent, I will take it in those parts. Are you content? 5830 (Members: Agreed.) Thank you. So first all, part (a): those in favour, please say aye; those against, please say, no.

A division was called for and electronic voting resulted as follows:

In the Keys – Ayes 14, Noes 8

FOR AGAINST Dr Allinson Mrs Barber Mr Ashford Mrs Corlett Mr Baker Ms Edge Mr Boot Mr Hooper Mrs Caine Mr Moorhouse Mr Callister Mr Robertshaw Mr Cannan Mr Speaker Mrs Christian Mr Thomas Mr Cregeen Mr Harmer Mr Peake Mr Perkins Mr Quayle Mr Quine

The Speaker: Mr President, in the Keys, 14 for, 8 against.

In the Council – Ayes 5, Noes 3

FOR AGAINST Mr Greenhill Miss August-Hanson Mr Henderson Mrs Lord-Brennan The Lord Bishop Mr Mercer Mrs Maska Mrs Sharpe

The President: In Legislative Council, there are 5 for and 3 against; it therefore carries. We move on to item (b): those in favour, please say aye; those against, please say, no. The ayes 5835 have it. The ayes have it. I put the remaining parts of the motion before you. Those in favour, please say aye; those against, say, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. Now I put the substantive motion before you: those in favour, please say aye; those against, please say, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.

9. Chief Minister’s Community and Public Engagement Report on Community Hubs – Report received and recommendations approved

The Member for the Cabinet Office (Mr Hooper) to move:

That Tynwald receives the Chief Minister’s Community and Public Engagement Committee report [GD No 2021/0046] and approves the recommendations.

______2824 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

That Tynwald note the Access to Cash review being carried out by the Department for Enterprise and that this work, and its recommendations are reported to Tynwald by October 2021.

That Tynwald notes a review is due to be completed by June 2022 and agrees existing support services including MiCard and driver/vehicle licensing remains unchanged until December 2022.

5840 The President: We move on to Item 9, the Chief Minister’s Community and Public Engagement Report on Community Hubs. I call upon the Member for the Cabinet Office, Mr Hooper to move.

The Member for the Cabinet Office (Mr Hooper): Thank you very much, Mr President. In December 2020, Tynwald approved a motion that included the phrase:

The Post Office should be required to sustain all sub post office branches currently open until the Chief Minister's Community Committee reports on community hubs and provision of government services, available banking and cash facilities in communities and the report is considered by Tynwald July 2021.

5845 This is that Report. Hon. Members will be aware though that the Committee, the Chief Minister’s Community and Public Engagement Committee, has gone a step further than the Tynwald motion in December required. We have not just provided a report on a potential model for community hubs, because we could already see the potential and sometimes the only way you know if something works is 5850 to try it out. So we have introduced a pilot with a budget comprised entirely of goodwill and enthusiasm from not just the Committee, but also from both Government and local authority officers across the board. I know I speak on behalf of my colleagues on the Committee when I say how encouraged we have been to see this partnership working in action. The timing of the pilot community hubs fits 5855 in well with the ongoing work by Government officers to introduce work hubs around the Island, to facilitate staff working closer to home or giving staff somewhere they can work from if they are out and about visiting clients and customers around the Island. It ties in with our carbon reduction aspirations when we encourage the public to reach out to more localised services and save themselves a journey; it comfortably fits with the Active Travel Strategy in supporting service users 5860 to access those services on foot or by bus; and it enterprisingly encourages more localised spend in our towns. The current community hub offering in the pilot is only a very small slice of the potential that exists in the model to offer better services at a more local level. Starting with the Welcome Centre service has been both great and challenging at the same time: great, because at the core of the 5865 community hub need is support for people who may feel isolated, who may feel overwhelmed by digital services and need additional support, or who may be disadvantaged by the additional costs a trip to Douglas would entail. The digital support the Welcome Centre team can offer is absolutely at the core of this proposal, as well as a signposting service that can help direct people to the right part of Government. 5870 But it has also caused us a slight challenge in that, whilst the Welcome Centre is up at the various hub locations, it makes sense for them to provide as full a range of services as possible, and it so happens that a number of those services are transactional in nature, rather than the more complex advice and support that I believe is really at the core of the model. Now, this is not necessarily a bad thing, but it has I think led to some confusion in respect of the core purpose of 5875 the pilot. To me, transactional services are very much the added benefit as these can be provided via a range of models, and indeed already are, it is the more complex services and support that could really benefit with this delivery model The Committee were galvanised by hearing from officers involved in the Western Wellbeing Partnership. There is a lot to be learned in how they overcame some of the complex issues, such 5880 as data sharing, in order to provide a one-stop shop for care services, ensuring that residents can ______2825 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

receive the right service at the right time. The model of pilots that we have rolled out is at its absolutely most basic, very simple. We have put a desk in a place; or, more accurately, we found a place with an existing and underutilised desk and asked if we could use it when it was not already in use. This provides a location from which any service can be provided. The infrastructure is 5885 already in place. I think it is reasonable to surmise that there is no need for a full-time immigration officer in each of Ramsey, Peel and Port Erin, but maybe once a week or once a month might be appropriate. In this manner you could have a regular calendar of services, each being provided at a frequency and regularity that works for both the service user and the body delivering the service, utilising 5890 the existing staff who would simply perform their existing job from a different physical location. This is how I have always worked. When I was an auditor I would rock up at a client with a rucksack, which was my office in a bag. I have worked from home; I have worked in offices, from boardrooms, server rooms, basements; coffee shops; restaurant tables – and even once from the room the client kept their dog in. Quite literally, I was in the doghouse. 5895 What mattered was my knowledge and skills and the fact that I could do pretty much 100% of my job from any of those locations. What mattered was my ability to interact with my client and provide them with the service they were expecting, not necessarily having a designated office space around me. These knowledge-based services, which account for a great number of the vast array of services Government is involved in, can surely be provided in a similar pop-up manner. 5900 There is no need to worry too much about creating permanent staffing, huge expansions to the work force, or creating lots of new infrastructure. This is simply about changing how we work. One of the greatest advantages of this model is it means services can be provided from anywhere where there is a place to work. A number of Members have asked about locations for hubs, and I think this is potentially to 5905 misunderstand the underlying concept of the model that the pilot is proposing, and that is set out in this Report. These hubs are not about a physical location. It is really about the services that can be offered locally, how those services are delivered and, very importantly, how residents then feel after receiving a positive service experience, whether it is purely transactional or simply advice and signposting. The locations for these hubs were made possible because of existing space in 5910 public buildings; but this does not mean that community hubs need to be fixed in these venues or that these should be the only venues. I would just like Hon. Members to consider briefly what a community hub really is. I have talked a lot about services, because that is where Government comes in, but I think it would be fair to say that a community hub is more than just a place where you can access a service. It is also a 5915 place where people can come together, and simply be. To expect all of this in one location is perhaps a bit much, so why would we want to restrict services to a single location or a single model, trying to cram in services that might not suit or might be better suited elsewhere? So, as we move away a little bit from this concept of a community hub as a single location, let me throw something out to you. There is a great place in the north of the Island that has a real 5920 sense of community, a place where I can meet friends and colleagues, where I can have a coffee, go to a library, access Government or local government services, post letters, go shopping or for a walk. I do not call this a ‘community hub’. This is just my community. This is just Ramsey. And I know that that is just as true for many other places on the Island. So why are we so focused on trying to get Government to do all of this when in fact nearly all 5925 of it is already there? Perhaps Government should just be focusing on services, because the evidence really shows us that the community takes care of itself. As the Report highlights, in Ramsey we can currently access a lot of Government services which are currently provided from multiple locations, predominantly the Isle of Man Post Office and Ramsey Town Hall. This is the core of a model that I think is organically developing, a model that could be expanded on, where 5930 services can be co-located. That is great. But where things already work pretty well, provided through multiple channels or multiple locations within a relatively small locale, why would we not

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use that to its fullest? Why can’t we have a mix of delivery models each aligned to what is best suited for the service and location in question? This pilot is very simply about testing this out, about seeing what works and what does not. In 5935 terms of other possible locations, Government and local authorities have a large estate and there are a range of locations that could be considered for this type of hub, potentially involving the private or third sectors as well, although it is likely those models would require some funding. As the New Public Service Project explores the roll-out of work hubs for Government staff, this likely means that Government officers with specific expertise and knowledge may be available in 5940 different locations around the Island simply by virtue of them choosing to work more locally instead of commuting to Douglas every day. This opens up a range of possibilities as to how services might be delivered. The three recommendations in the Report focus on the Community Hub pilot. They simply ask that the pilot be supported and, through more engagement with the public and Departments and 5945 Boards, we find out what is possible and that feedback continues to be gathered with the aim of determining whether this pilot can be embedded more into what we would consider business as usual. That is what the first part of the motion is asking for approval on. The recommendations included in the Report. I should advise Hon. Members at this point that there is a small typo in the motion: the semi- 5950 colon at the end of the first paragraph really should be a full stop to make it clear that those recommendations are separate to the other two parts of the motion. I have checked with the Clerk who advised this does not affect the substance of the motion, but if an Hon. Member wants to amend it I would not be opposed to clarify that. Moving away from community hubs, the Committee was also asked by Tynwald to consider a 5955 further item which was not part of our original remit: access to cash and banking services, and also the interconnected issue of closures of sub-post offices and the contraction of the retail network. In terms of access to cash and availability of banking services, this is a significant piece of work that needs to be done professionally and thoroughly. We know that a large number of people now use internet banking or do not really use cash, but we have to be very careful that we 5960 do not disenfranchise those who continue to rely on cash, for whatever reason. (A Member: Hear, hear.) The Committee determined the best way forward was to get a professional piece of work commissioned, taking into account work that has already gone on in the UK around access to cash and seeing what our problems on the Island and our solutions might be. It is great that this piece 5965 of work was supported by the Chief Minister, and the Department for Enterprise agreed to fund the work through their Finance Agency. I would like to place on record my thanks to those parties for all of their support. The intention is for this work to report back to this Hon. Court by October, and this is the second part of the motion on the Order Paper, which I hope Hon. Members can support. 5970 The third part of the motion pertains to the connected issue of the closures of sub-post offices and the contraction of the retail network. A specific concern that was raised in the December debate was what will happen to those essential services currently provided by post offices in some of our towns and villages, and where will residents be able to access cash in their community if the Post Office is currently the only location that provides this service? 5975 The Committee are very grateful to members of the Post Office board and representatives of the sub-post offices for their time in meeting with the Committee. The sub-postmasters indicated to us they would be very keen to look into other services that could be offered through their branches, but understandably this would require a look at current legislation and service contracts. There is also a cost consideration here, as it was made clear to the Committee by both 5980 the Post Office and the sub-postmasters that there would very likely have to be a commercial basis for providing services. The Committee has not investigated the viability of specific services as this was outside our remit, but we do note that all parties concerned seemed very open to examining this. ______2827 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

The core ask, however, that the Committee heard from the sub-postmasters and from the Post 5985 Office, was for some certainty. (Mr Thomas: Hear, hear.) Back in December during the original debate on this issue, I said that I was not hearing from this Hon. Court that we really were in any fundamentally different position in December than we had been in the previous debate three months prior. (Interjection by Mr Thomas) At that point I did not expect us to be in a fundamentally different position three months hence, where we are today, and that certainly seems to be the 5990 case. We do not have a lot more certainty now than we did in December. To this end, the third part of the motion tries to provide some of this certainty. The motion identifies there is an ongoing review being conducted by Treasury and the DoI into the future of their services, which is due to be completed by June 2022; and the motion in front of us asks Tynwald to ensure that these services will be secured until at least December 2022, irrespective 5995 of the outcome of that review. The reason for this is, whatever the conclusions of that review, there would need to be a notice period to give postmasters and the Post Office time to adjust. Ultimately, we accept that the question around whether sub-post offices could be a viable business partner, either through the Post Office or directly in their own right, is something that has to be considered by those Departments who operate these services and by the Council of 6000 Ministers in terms of what the broader policy around rural retailers and cash will be. So to my mind it is quite reassuring that the second two parts of the motion that relate to these issues have not come from the Committee, they have come directly from the Council of Ministers, which to me shows the commitment that they are making that these things should happen – both the review around access to cash and the review of a MiCard and vehicle licensing. 6005 But again I will come back to remarks that I made in December. For me, this all comes back to separating services from organisations and trying to figure out what it is that actually matters. What is it we are trying to save? Are we trying to save an element of retail business that may or may not be profitable? Are we trying to save the last shop in the village, which is definitely worthwhile considering? Or are we trying to save people’s ability to access vital Government 6010 services and cash in their local communities? When we have answered that question, I think a lot of the issues that we are facing will resolve themselves. This is a crucial piece of the puzzle that needs to be properly understood, and I hope that any understanding will continue to build out of the two reviews that are now being undertaken, as well as from the pilot programme that is under way. 6015 Hon. Members, a gradual evolution is often better than a sudden and drastic change in direction, and I hope that this Report and the motion today will help us take a step further down this road. Mr President, I beg to move.

The President: I call on the Chief Minister. 6020 The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Thank you, Mr President. I rise to second this important motion from my hon. friend Mr Hooper. I would like to give my sincere thanks to the Committee on Community and Public Engagement for all of their hard work that has gone into this Report, and into their reports relating to charities and volunteering. I would 6025 also like to thank the teams of officers in both Government and local authorities who have worked together and helped to make this happen. Hon. Members, I really think this is a no-brainer. When you strip it back to its core the concept is really simple. This is about providing services to the people of our Island nearer to where they live. The benefits of this are wide-ranging: economic, social and environmental, and in terms of 6030 our health and wellbeing, as the Hon. Member has already outlined. If we are able to achieve this in a cost-effective way then I struggle to see why it should not be encouraged. People in the west of the Island are already enjoying the benefits of integrated care. Visitors to the Welcome Centre are already enjoying the additional support and signposting provided there. Hon. Members will also be aware of my personal views about the services like the mobile 6035 library, for example, which help to tackle social isolation at source from delivering a service to ______2828 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

people’s doorsteps, providing a form of community hub. To echo the Hon. Member for Ramsey’s words, this Report and its recommendations represent the next step down the road. I urge Hon. Members to support this motion and give some certainty and help this work progress. This is obviously my last Tynwald – I am not standing again, along with my good friend and 6040 neighbour, Mr Robertshaw – but one of the things I have been quite passionate about is enabling community on the Isle of Man, enabling facilities to be around the Island so that people do not have to drive into Douglas to get the services, and that people avoid that feeling of social isolation. I have banged on time and time again that the biggest killer of our elderly will be social isolation and it will overtake myocardial infarctions – heart attacks – as the biggest killer. I have been away 6045 to the British-Irish Council and research has been done into this, and I really think it is important that we work together. My challenge to the next administration is to ensure that we involve our young people into being part of the community, to join up. There are projects all over the world where young people learn from old people, and vice versa; and my challenge is to my successor and his or her team that they carry on. They can change the name of it, or whatever they want, 6050 but if they would just please focus on working with the community and taking it forward. With that, Mr President, I beg to second.

The President: I call upon the Loayreyder.

6055 The Speaker: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Dealing with the motion: firstly, this is a Report that I welcome. It has got a lot to recommend it and indeed the recommendations that are on the Order Paper I am happy to support, and I thank Mr Hooper and his colleagues on this Committee for the work that they have done. But obviously if I stood up and said all was well and rosy in the garden, I think it would be Mr Hooper 6060 that had a heart attack. So I do want to provide some challenge back on this Report. In terms of access to cash, I do welcome the commissioning of this part of the Report. We are soon not going to be just talking about the last shop in the village; we are going to talk about the last bank in the village as well. The current administration has presided over the decline of the local post office network, it has refused to stand up to banks charging for charity accounts, and I 6065 think that is possibly the legacy of the commitment to community that we are seeing from this administration. So I do not perhaps share the Chief Minister’s optimism. I do appreciate the nod to certainty and the need to see these services through to December 2022 and I think that is a really valuable, tangible thing for that network to hold on to, but what I have not really seen is about the sustainability of these services. We have got a stay of 6070 execution. There was a stay of execution in December out to this Report and really this Report has said yes, these services are going to carry on until next December. But there is still not really an articulated vision. It has moved forward, I do not deny that, there is more of a vision here in terms of services. The Chairman did say that these hubs are a small part of a wider opportunity, but there is not an awful lot of that wider opportunity that has really been captured in the Report that 6075 we can all hang our hat on and say that these Government services, that are quite wide-ranging, will be delivered in the local community. It was really disappointing to hear this morning that the opportunities around outsourcing were not part of the remit, because that is where the sub-post office network really could perhaps get involved. I am the first one to agree that there does need to be an element of financial 6080 incentive for them to work. I have a lot of sympathy for Ms Edge, as Chairman of the Post Office, when she says that these sub-post offices need a financial incentive to work, they cannot be supported and subsidised by Government. You are preaching to the converted on that one. But what we have not seen is that vision, that opportunity to take those staff maybe and say, ‘Actually, this is something that we can 6085 pay for in cash terms rather than pay for in staff terms.’ I think that is perhaps a lack of vision within this area that needs to change, because bear in mind that this stay of execution for the sub-

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post office network really only lasts until today! This Report and the Post Office are now free to sharpen the axe once more. So we have seen the elements of services that are valued and want saving, but without really 6090 a way of delivering that. That is where my frustration comes in. I represent a community of some 5,800 people in Rushen – certainly, that is the approximate number of voters according to my spreadsheet – and they will be served by potentially two post offices, but in terms of one cash machine, in terms of one bank and two sub-post offices that support that service. No community hub trial in that corner of the world – yet. 6095 But my point to Mr Hooper is that this time is running out and that we really need to develop that vision, that opportunity. And the opportunity is really what I am asking for, the vision for what services this will provide and the possible delivery mechanism so that others can get after it and whether that is a sub-postmaster, whether that is an entrepreneur, whether that is the Commissioners or whether that is Government delivering it directly – which, by the way, would 6100 be my least favoured option, but it is the one that we are stuck with at the moment. So these are the opportunities that I really want and had hoped the Committee would provide. I hope that it is just that I have missed something. I really want Mr Hooper to come back in his summing up and give us more on that, because at the moment there is the sword of Damocles hanging over the head of many of these services in my constituency. I am really afraid to lose 6105 them; and a packed hall of people in Port St Mary was afraid to lose them. I really am very much reliant on this Report to provide the opportunity, the vision for those providers to be able to deliver some of those Government services in the community in the south- west of the Isle of Man – as I say, some 5,800 people, something about the same size as Castletown and Malew put together – but, as yet, with no public hub to support the delivery of public services. 6110 Thank you, Mr President.

The President: I call upon Ms Edge.

Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. 6115 I rise to my feet as Chairman of Isle of Man Post Office to thank the Chief Minister’s Committee for their review on Community and Public Engagement, and we welcome their Report. I would also like to thank the Committee for speaking with Isle of Man Post Office and with some of the valued retail network operators who act as sub-postmasters providing services under contract, to understand our views, and I am grateful to the Committee for taking the time to do this. 6120 Isle of Man Post Office and the independent providers of postal services in the retail industry have waited with interest to learn the Committee’s findings. To be frank, they bring little surprise, clearly showing a direction of travel for a limited community presence for the Isle of Man Government services to be provided, and what the Committee believe to be no or low additional cost, utilising existing Government resources. I have said in this Hon. Court a number of times 6125 previously that there remains much uncertainty for sub-postmasters, due to changes in customer trends and the Government’s drive on its digital strategy, switching more and more Government services online, which in turn naturally reduces the need for face-to-face counter transactions in local post offices. The topic of community hubs is certainly not new. It has been mooted for many years, and for 6130 some time I have said that Isle of Man Post Office would always be willing to be part of community hubs if it helps to sustain the services that post offices offer to local towns and villages. Furthermore, we have always been clear that any service Government may wish the Post Office to willingly undertake would be on a commercial footing, as Isle of Man Post Office and the network of independent sub-postmasters are required to operate financially viable services, 6135 whether they be provided on an agency basis for the Isle of Man Government or the private sector. While the Report comments that some sub-postmasters are, and I quote, ‘extremely keen to be flexible in the Government services’ that they have the potential to offer within communities, it must be highlighted that this is not new or at no cost. ______2830 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

For a long time these independent providers of postal services have faced this uncertainty. I do 6140 not believe any of us in this Hon. Court can expect sub-postmasters to continue accepting the uncertainty and insecurity they face; and, yes, while the community hubs are an outwardly positive concept, by moving services which have traditionally been offered over the counter by these people to online and to Government-operated hubs, their income will continue to deplete. Sub-postmasters are faced with having to make decisions and choices in the meantime, which 6145 best suit their own businesses. The Post Office does have a recognised, trustworthy and strong brand in the community. The independent providers know their customers and whether a similar regard can be held for community hubs will only be known in time. But let’s remember what we have today and how these outlets can be used to benefit communities, as opposed to Government expanding its 6150 footprint against private retailers. With regard to the recommendation before us today, we believe this provides prolonged uncertainty for sub-postmasters and for Isle of Man Post Office. In the time that Isle of Man Post Office has been implementing its five-year strategy, which started in 2018, it has created a number of operational efficiencies, reduced its headcount – while Government has increased theirs – 6155 generated significant savings, and in doing so has been able to return the business to profit in the last financial year. This has been possible due to foresight, accurate planning assumptions and a great deal of hard work by everyone who makes up the great team at Isle of Man Post Office; but dates that continually get pushed out for decisions to be made, creates difficulties for the board of the Post Office to plan and make decisions. 6160 Looking at the first of the two recommendations on the Order Paper

That Tynwald note the Access to Cash review being carried out by the Department for Enterprise and that this work, and its recommendations are reported to Tynwald by October 2021.

I would also like to emphasise the belief of the Isle of Man Post Office Board that Treasury’s Programme for Government action to consider alternatives to cash welfare payments is brought to the same Tynwald sitting to ensure that the future of cash welfare payments – a key component of the cash economy – is duly considered. I welcome the Treasury Minister’s confirmation as to 6165 the planned timing of the Report. Turning to the second recommendation on the Order Paper:

That Tynwald notes a review is due to be completed by June 2022 and agrees existing support services including MiCard and driver/vehicle licensing remains unchanged until December 2022.

I would like to seek clarity on what review this is referring to, and would therefore be grateful if the mover, the Hon. Member, Mr Hooper, could provide this together with clarity as to why the recommendations from the review do not appear to be coming back to this Hon. Court. Depending 6170 on his reply, I do not believe I can fully support the recommendation as it currently stands. June 2022 is a long way off in bringing forward the outcome of a review, extending the uncertainty for Isle of Man Post Office and its valued sub-postmasters by another 12 months, if indeed the target date is met. Let’s be clear that, if both the driving and vehicle licensing counter service contract with the Department of Infrastructure and the cash welfare payments contract 6175 with Treasury cease to be operated through the sub-post office network in December 2022, as is currently forecast, and there are no new material Government counter service revenue sources, agency services provided through independent sub-postmasters will discontinue as they will not be financially viable for sub-postmasters to operate. Isle of Man Post Office and valued independent sub-postmasters must plan for that potential outcome well ahead of the proposed 6180 June 2022 review. Thank you, Mr President.

The President: I call on Mr Peake.

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Mr Peake: Thank you very much, Mr President. 6185 I would like to thank the Chief Minister for putting this Committee together. I was happy to serve on it and I was happy to serve under the Chair, Mr Hooper. I would just like to perhaps draw everyone’s attention to the fact that it says, ‘community and public engagement’. Mr President, this was not actually meant to be a detailed report to actually give direction to organisations. This was actually meant to be about the community and how we could actually 6190 engage with the community, and I think we should try and resist at this point trying to dive into the detail and come up with detailed solutions. This is an opportunity to change culture. I know that is one of those things that is easier said than done, but I think this really is. Mr Speaker has talked about an opportunity. I do think this is an opportunity, Mr Speaker, I think you are absolutely right. You may have missed something in 6195 there, but the opportunity is about engaging with the community. I am really pleased that the survey this year is actually going to contact those people who are using the Post Office at the moment. We can contact the people, build up a survey, get some data and we can then start to understand how we deliver, and how we actually deliver cash payments to people on Social Security. So we can actually talk to the people who are using the service at the 6200 moment. So to stay away from the detail, it is time for Government to get out of the way and engage with the community. We had a number of really interesting people who came along and gave their time: we had people from the Post Office, we had sub-postmasters, we had people from charities and we had people from financial organisations. We had a very good cross-section of how and who wants to 6205 deliver services. It really is a great starting point to start looking at how we can put into the community people who can listen and deliver what they want. And, rather than have a pre- determined position of what we are going to do to the community, we can listen to the community and deliver and work with them. Thank you very much, Mr President. 6210 The President: I call upon Mr Robertshaw.

Mr Robertshaw: Thank you, Mr President. Bearing in mind we have such a large Order Paper, I will keep my comments as succinct as 6215 possible, made easy by the fact that I certainly concur with the vast bulk of the comments made by Mr Speaker, and also my hon. friend for Douglas North – and I have been dying to do this – Mr erm … (Laughter) (A Member: Peake. Peake!) Mr Peake! (Laughter)

The Speaker: Lest we forget. 6220 Mr Robertshaw: I am very encouraged by this contribution and the work done by Mr Hooper’s Committee because for me this journey started – I think it was in 2014 – when I started focusing on a concept of personalisation of service delivery and community hubs. They just remained words right the way through until today, until a Committee comes forward with innovative, 6225 different thinking, and I commend them for that. I would, however, say that it is terribly important that the energy described by the Committee’s work translates into a real continued drive in the next House and I look to him to ensure, and the other members of the Committee, that that actually happens. My one cautionary note is that it is always important to keep things simple, and in searching 6230 for the outcomes it must not dissipate too much. It must be describable as it opens up its facilities and services. It must be easily identifiable by the general public. My closing remark, Mr President, relates to the post offices because in an increasingly digital world, in a world which less and less is a matter of interpersonal relationships, the concept of personalisation of service delivery must remain incredibly important in our communities. Our sub- 6235 post offices provide that. ______2832 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

So let’s be absolutely sure in the work that goes on between now and I think it is next June. I think Mr Speaker said it was next December, it is a year next December, I think it is?

The Speaker: It is December 2022 for the MiCard. 6240 Mr Robertshaw: Yes. So it is very important that work is done as intelligently and as carefully as possible, because this whole concept of cash, and the other issues, must be decided before we lose too much of what we have got. (A Member Hear, hear.) Thank you, Mr President. 6245 The Speaker: Hear, hear.

The President: Mrs Lord-Brennan.

6250 Mrs Lord-Brennan: Thank you, Mr President. I do agree with a lot of the points made by Mr Speaker, but also I would like to thank the Chair and the Committee very much for putting this Report forward. I thought in particular the opening remarks by the Chair about what community is … it is certainly not about what Government is doing to people, it is not about those services, it is not about online services. It was so well 6255 described as going into their home town and that is what community is, so I was heartened by that. I think, in some ways, what has become apparent from the debate so far, is we are in a little bit of a bind. We know that what we need is to have some social good that is brought forward, something that is delivered meaningfully for the community and, on the other hand, we are 6260 hampered by some of the limitations that we either know are present or that are coming to bear. For example, through the sub-post offices. So the comment that I would like to make is I think I am a bit concerned that by the time the report to do with access to cash comes out – and it is quite right that it is careful and thoughtful work that is required because it is really significant – by the time that comes out, it could easily be 6265 the case that we have lost sub-post offices in key areas that then would be very badly served or woefully underserved in terms of counter services and access to cash, and that is something that could easily affect the fabric of a whole area. Now, in recognising the things that might be needed in terms of counter services over that period of time, it could be that Government or a committee then get to the point where they 6270 realise that actually, ‘Oh, we do need counter services in some way and we do need this provision and actually in some form we are going to have to put some kind of Government funding or intervention to provide that.’ Therefore kind of coming full circle to needing what we may have already lost by that time. I am not looking to the Committee to solve this in full; I commend and welcome their 6275 commitment to engagement. I would just want to point out that obviously it should not just be about Government engaging with itself. It is very tempting, with all the initiatives that we have going on, whether that is the … what do we call it? The one public service? (A Member: New.) Sorry, the New Public Service, things like integrated health care, the fact that a lot of these things are bound up with many groups and large meetings. It has to connect back to the people and what 6280 people need in their communities. So I hope that that will not be lost sight of and it does not sound like it will be lost sight of through the work of the Committee. Finally then, I would say the point I think probably that Mr Robertshaw is also touching on, coming back to the previous work that has already been done, this relates to social good, it cannot just be about transactions. And I think then, hearing what the Chair of the Post Office is saying, 6285 and the difficulties there and listening also to Mr Hooper and all of the right stuff that is in this Committee Report, I think it could end up being the case that in the next administration it does actually need a rethink and a revisit as to how, certainly some sub-post offices, are funded or ______2833 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

supported, because maybe we are all on board with a particular objective and a longer term common good but actually maybe we are in a little bit of a bind as to how we are going to get 6290 there on that. So thank you very much to the Committee for that and just please note the words of caution: what we what we wanted could well be gone too soon. Thank you very much, Mr President.

6295 The President: I call upon Mr Greenhill.

Mr Greenhill: Thank you, Mr President. I will be short. I fully support this motion and thank the Committee for their work on it. It has been very good, thank you. 6300 The DfE Finance Agency would like to confirm that tenders have now been received for the Access to Cash Review and, following this Tynwald session, contracts will be finalised for starting work as soon as possible. Thank you.

6305 The President: I call upon Mr Henderson.

Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. I would like to also thank the Committee and for Mr Hooper’s delivery to the Court this evening. I would like to just raise a few comments. The Hon. Member for Douglas North, Mr Peake, is 6310 absolutely spot on when he said we need to find out what the community want and we want to provide what they want, not as in the old governmental culture where Government think what is best to do to people, to do to the community. That is what we really have to pick up on; it is really important. But Eaghtyrane, if our society, culture, community and so on keeps moving in the current 6315 direction it is – the economy picks up again and the way we are socially with our families, with our work, most people having two jobs, standard of living improves a little bit and a little bit, and I am comparing us back to 1946, probably, when things were tight and you can see how our standard of living has improved, as improved technologies come along, the digital age ... We are almost at the point of a cashless society now and if this progresses at the rate of knots it is doing, possibly 6320 accelerated by lockdowns and so on … opened people’s eyes to opportunities using digital tech. Hon. Member of Council, Mrs Lord-Brennan, has alluded to it now, ‘We need to be careful what we might lose because it will be gone too quick,’ I think, or words to that effect. We are going to have to look at that because that is the way it is going at the minute, the way the society has developed, how people come home from work at night, they want to sit down, 6325 they want to relax, they want to do what they want to do. There is a more materialistic society now; our disposable income is better. If you look back to 1946, or in the 1950s anyway, to now and compare the standards of living and what ordinary folk in the street can afford then and now, there is a monster world of difference; and that is part of the problem of what we are discussing here tonight, and we need to accept that and think about it. 6330 The other thing that really does upset me in a way is the acceptance these days where, when elderly relatives come to the point of needing care or become vulnerable, it is an accepted thing they have to go into a residential home, quite often a nursing home. It seems to be a benign social given in some ways and ‘Oh, well, they will have to go in there’ or ‘We will get you a place,’ and that is where the Chief Ministerʼs social isolation can start – or a little bit of it. I have seen it so 6335 often over the last few years, where relatives … they could be the best care home on the planet but the contact with their family has suddenly gone to only weekends or irregular visits. In Europe and Eastern Europe, Asia and other places, there is still the extended family. You still have extended families living in the same house, albeit bigger. The social cohesion and what the Committee is striving for here is still in existence in a lot of other places, and I think we need to ______2834 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

6340 possibly enlarge our scope when we go forward with further assessments with the recommendations that are here, just to see how other countries are succeeding with their social cohesion, I call it. The most important thing of all, Eaghtyrane, which I will touch upon is the Chief Minister’s point about social isolation, certainly with the elderly, and certainly with locations that are not 6345 well connected and so on, but we can also see elderly socialisation in our ordinary streets as well, where we have lost the ‘good neighbour’ touch in a lot of cases. I have come across lonely elderly in streets, lonely elderly in my former constituency, and I would say that we are compounding it with the way we are embracing our techno society, with our bigger disposable incomes and so on, and we need to step back and look at that. 6350 There is also something else, Eaghtyrane, that is pushing that on and it is the urge – and this is no criticism of our Health Minister, but there is an urge – to ensure the elderly stay in their own homes for as long as possible. Well, if we are going to pursue that health/social health trend, you will end up with, as the Chief Minister pointed out, an ever-increasing population of socially isolated elderly persons. It is already happening and socially isolated elderly persons who have 6355 not got the right resources in place because we have not got the resources to actually meet the needs they require either. If we continue the pursuit of that health/social objective then that particular issue is going to get worse and worse. We need to examine our health and social care model in that regard. Yes, if an elderly person wishes to stay at home for as long as they can with the right social support and 6360 they feel safe and they are well connected, but there comes a point in many elderly people’s lives where they require comfort, safety, support and companionship. I think, in some ways we are pushing away from that, and we need to be careful how we are applying ourselves here and, as my hon. colleague Mr Peake said, we need to find out what the community want, not what we want to do to it. 6365 The President: I call upon Mr Harmer.

Mr Harmer: Thank you, Mr President. I think there have been lots and lots of excellent contributions, so I am much more going to 6370 summarise some of those because I wholeheartedly agree with them. But I think it is really important … and primarily why I am standing up, is really to congratulate the Chair, primarily because of two fundamental concept issues here – absolutely fundamental and they may be lost. The first one is around actually – and I think the Chair spoke about it – that this is not a one- size-fits-all solution: this goes to the Post Office, that goes there, that goes there; no, it is much 6375 bigger than that. Community is not something you can go and say ‘That is the community’; it is when you do all of those things. The second fundamental thing that the Chair has done, and why, again, I want to congratulate him … and as I said in the question, is it is not about ‘Blah, blah, blah, blah report gets archived,’ or whatever, it is actually doing something. (A Member: Hear, hear.) It is while the cheese is 6380 moving, trying to actually capture the cheese! (Interjections and laughter) Certainly the concept is around the person, because actually 80% of people might want to have online … and may want to go into the centre for other reasons; it is the personalisation of services which is absolutely critical. It is about integrating and signposting, it is about not leaving people behind. The two comments that I would like to highlight, and I think we have made big strides, and I 6385 cannot believe how quickly we have moved on certain things ... That is why I am hopeful. I, as a backbencher, brought a little motion to say, let’s do something about Manx credit unions ... as the Government have taken that on and done something about that, because 10% of people do not have bank accounts. There are also people who are disenfranchised. As we know through the census, 12% to 13% do not have any online access. If we are not careful we will lose that. So 6390 dealing with the communities, dealing with the fact also people working remotely, working in different places at different times, absolutely fundamental, dealing with the really important issue ______2835 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

of cash, we have got to do that. I would urge the Chair of the Post Office not to throw away item 3, because in October they could get rid of everything without that commitment. So that commitment is saying, ‘We need to do more work on this, we have not done enough. Let’s give 6395 us the time.’ (A Member: Hear, hear.) So please, I would urge the Member not to vote against that. Thank you, Mr President.

The President: I call upon Mr Thomas. 6400 Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. I, too, want to join in with congratulations and thanks for the Chair who picked up the Chief Minister’s motion and made it have substance, and has come back with a helpful report, some helpful suggested actions, which I will try to contribute to to take them forward. 6405 The first one is I completely want to associate myself with some of the big picture stuff about how this should be about outcomes not actions, about services not organisations, being person focused not being Government centred. Just before I move on from that, given the Manx Credit Union mention, it is great to think of the Manx Credit Union, but ultimately as far as I know the Manx Credit Union charges £2 a month 6410 for its card, which is excellent if that is what the policy is, but we do not want to get hung up on the organisation, we want to encourage it, but we need to be focused on the outcome and on the service; in the same way that we should not be focused on the Post Office in all of this, we should be focused on the outcomes for their communities and peoples. (A Member: Hear, hear.) The second general point is the absolute dream from today’s debate and this report is that 6415 now there does seem to be a consensus that what we all need to deliver is certainty, as much certainty as soon as possible, for sub-postmasters, for the Isle of Man Post Office, but for everybody else around the public service who is working on a great deal of reviews that I will come to in a moment. We need Government, we need Tynwald to decide the policy direction that we are going to use as early as possible in the next administration. Because wouldn’t it be disastrous 6420 if we stopped talking about just the independent retailer sub-postmaster in Port St Mary, but if one day Mannin Retail said, ‘I really cannot be bothered with this anymore. The Government must make up their mind, do they want me to run post offices or not? I can use that space for better purposes,’ and just walk out of it? Wouldn’t it be disastrous if the Co-op said, ‘I just cannot be bothered with these post offices any more. Let’s use that space to generate some real money for 6425 the co-operative movement,’ and so on? We need certainty for everybody involved. The third point then is just to pick up on one thing that the hon. mover, the Chair, mentioned. I think he said there were two reviews – and by those two reviews I think he meant the two reviews directly referenced in the motion. But the biggest compliment I am going to give the mover is one I am going to deliver now, which is there really are not just two reviews, there are 6430 probably four, five, six, seven, eight, nine or 10 reviews. I am going to list some of them now, and what the mover has done and the Chair has done is actually been able to get inside some of those trends and with candour it actually explains some of the asynchronicity about these reviews and the inconsistency between these reviews, and the ever-changing nature of the likely outcomes of these reviews; and that is an incredible talent that the hon. mover has, the Chair has, and I think 6435 we should all join to actually explain that. Because we have not only got two reviews. We have got the Access to Cash Review, that has been going on for some time, we have got the other review that is mentioned that he is hinting at, but we have also got the overall Welcome Centre Government Services Review that the mover and myself announced in November 2019. We have got the Licensing Review, which I thought was 6440 limited to vehicle licensing, but by the terms of this motion it is extended to driver and vehicle licensing. Obviously, I cannot say very much because the board of the Post Office has got non- disclosure agreements, but I have asked questions about whether this review includes six-monthly

______2836 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

payment options and where you can get your vehicle licences from. To me, it would be great to have some certainty in respect of that review. 6445 We have got the overall benefits review, and I want to compliment Treasury, particularly the Social Security officers who actually came along to the Poverty Committee in November 2020 and were given really helpful answers about where we were in terms of that review and how it connected to cash and how it connected to the community, and that is there. There is not only the New Public Service review, there is the other human resource projects that are underway that 6450 I know the hon. mover is really passionate about, in terms of putting more people out in the other parts of the Isle of Man and having people work from home and all of those other things that are going on. There is the Digital Inclusion Programme, which is where all this started, because back in the … sorry, in the Digital Strategy as well – is that one or two programmes? – because all this started in 6455 the Digital Strategy back in 2015, when there was a clear action identified in 2015 for the Digital Strategy to consider the use of the Welcome Centre and sub-post offices for the delivery of services around the Isle of Man, both in terms of information and signposting more detailed advice. There is the DHSC wellbeing pilots in Peel, and soon to be extended to the south, we learn. 6460 There is the Smaller, Smarter, Simpler project that is underway that has been going on for some time. Potentially, there is also the review about what the role is of the local authorities in all of this. We will probably end up with 10 different reviews and the Member has actually managed to bring those together and get out some big picture points to actually suggest to us. In terms of the actual motion that we are voting on today, I just want to make a few points. 6465 The first one is that there is a slight difference between the recommendation that is on the Order Paper and the recommendation that appears in the Report – and that has been added to by Mr Greenhill’s comment about the Finance Agency, because in the recommendation in the Report, the Department for Enterprise Finance Agency is specifically mentioned, whereas they are not mentioned in the Report that is on the Order Paper. Obviously they are not a legal entity so it 6470 is not a small point, but to me we need to make sure that we understand what it is we are being asked to agree to today. So as far as I am aware, what we are saying here today is that we are looking forward, all of us are looking forward, to the Access to Cash Review coming back to Tynwald in October 2021, and that is the gist of it, however, it happens. The second point is that in terms of noting a review, which is due to be completed by June 6475 2022 and agrees existing support services, including MiCard and driver or vehicle licensing, remains unchanged until December 2022. It is slightly ambiguous what that means. There are all sorts of bodies that are doing various things, and they will make decisions about those things in the light of the information that they have got from this debate and this Report and other reviews and other things that are going on. But it seems to me what we are hearing today is that there is 6480 good faith to focus on outcomes, communities – I am thinking of people rather than Government itself. In terms of some of the other recommendations in the Report, which are hinted at in the motion before us, recommendation 2 is not the sort of recommendation that I would normally associate with the hon. mover, and perhaps there is a slight mis-drafting in the recommendation, 6485 but to me it is just words, we do not need to do it. But normally I would think that the feedback from the pilot programme would not only go to a departmental political group and the Council of Ministers, it would obviously come back to Tynwald for consideration in Tynwald because it is a pretty major policy development. So my understanding, unless contradicted, is that the intention is that the way that we go about delivering services in the future is actually a major policy decision 6490 that will need to come back to Tynwald. Finally, in recommendation 1 that is inside the Report, which has not specifically been offered for approval by a plain reading of the words on the text – and I will finish with that in a moment – basically there is again a little bit of an odd phrase in the recommendations in the Report; it talks about ‘wider engagement across Government, local authorities and the third sector.’ The Post ______2837 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

6495 Office and the MUA are not in Government, they are in the public service but they are not in Government. We recruit now to the public service, we do not recruit to Government, to capture that nuance that we have Government Departments and then we have Boards and Offices. So I hope that the Minister can confirm that what he meant was that engagement would include the bodies beyond the Departments of Government and the Council of Ministers, because that has 6500 always been a perception and an issue for the more independent boards like the MUA and the Post Office in particular. But in summary, the words on the page are what we are voting on and I think we can just basically think about what Humpty Dumpty said about words on a page as we are voting for this. Basically, ‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what 6505 I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.’

Mr Robertshaw: That is your epitaph there!

Mr Thomas: ‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different 6510 things.’ ‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master, that’s all.’ Essentially, I cannot see why anybody would not vote against everything that is before us today on that basis and let’s come back and actually make some serious decisions as soon as possible so that we have that certainty around the delivery of good outcomes, which is what we all need.

6515 Two Members: Hear, hear.

The President: I call upon Mrs Maska.

Mrs Maska: Thank you, Mr President. 6520 I was very proud to serve on this Committee and it was a very interesting process. I have written down some words, as I recalled some of the evidence that we took: ‘passion’, ‘energy’, ‘discernible appetite to engage and assist in community’, and this goes for some of the charities, the volunteers, local authorities, the Isle of Man Post Office and sub-post office officers. I think it is just so good to share the ideas with Hon. Members today. 6525 I think it is also important not to get hung up on location, as has been said by others and so well by our Chair today, who I would thank for his leadership, vision and clarity in actually setting direction for where this Committee was going, and so I do thank him for his summary today, which I absolutely fully support. There is a discernible appetite across the piece to help our communities and all I want to say 6530 is that this needs to be built upon. The speed and momentum with which the test hubs have been set up was really to gather on that momentum that was absolutely discernible as we listened to people, that different ways of working had already been discovered during the COVID lockdown process in local authorities, charitable organisations and private citizens engaging and so the importance of testing this before we lose that momentum was vital to actually setting up the test 6535 hubs. There is nothing to say, as the Chair has said and others, that this cannot be rolled out in a bigger, better way across the Island but it is the services that matter and the offer to people, as my hon. colleague in Council here has said, about elderly people being socially isolated. I have seen policies promote living at home for as long as you can, but I have also seen absolute social 6540 isolation where the services that people need are not always there, so I would recommend the motion as it stands to Hon. Members today, and that is my contribution, Mr President. Thank you.

The President: I call upon the Lord Bishop. 6545 The Lord Bishop: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. ______2838 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

I, too, commend the Committee and the Chair for this piece of work, which really is, it seems to me, an outstanding piece of work in every way. Other colleagues, other Hon. Members, have spoken of outcomes and community inclusion, and I will not go over that. 6550 I would reflect simply that if I were to put this into a sort of spiritual context, I would say, in a gentle way, it asks all the deeper spiritual questions like, ‘What is community?’ ‘What is the social good?’ And the great spiritual question, I suppose, ‘Who is my neighbour?’ And it seeks to identify what it means to live in a neighbourly community, to identify social good and moral good. Those things are prevalent throughout this Report, particularly, I think, in the vocabulary that it uses. 6555 Hon. Member Mr Thomas has given us some reflections around Humpty Dumpty and words, and my hon. colleague, Mrs Maska, also, from within the Committee, reflected on some of the words used. For me, as I look through the Report, I see words like ‘vision’, ‘potential’, ‘partnership’, ‘buy-in’, ‘relationship’ and ‘trust’, and I see those as being words, actually, that have profound meaning, deeply cohesive in defining what it means to live as a society where we value 6560 the relationship that we have with our neighbour and we seek to draw people in to those things that would otherwise be inaccessible. So a deeply impressive piece of work, Mr President, which I support entirely, and I offer my thanks to the Chair and to the Committee. Thank you. 6565 The President: Thank you. I call on the mover, Mr Hooper, to respond.

Mr Hooper: Thank you very much, Mr President. 6570 I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to the debate, it has been very positive. I will try and cover everything off, if I can. If I do miss you, that is not intentional, I promise. I would like to thank the Chief Minister for his very supportive comments. Actually, I would like to echo his thanks to all the staff across the public service that are actually making this possible, ultimately it is their drive and energy that has really made this happen, more than anything else. 6575 I did like the idea of the mobile library as well as a potential option. There is no logical reason why you could not have a mobile service delivery option. I think it is quite a sensible idea and something that is definitely worth further exploring. For Mr Speaker, I actually welcome his challenge, his comments around the last bank in the village, I think are absolutely valid, that is a real concern that I have, and I know Members of the 6580 Committee share and I know Members of this Hon. Court share as well, as well as in terms of making sure that some of these services that we are asking to be delivered are sustainable in the long term. I would like to think that the reviews that the motion talks about that are going to come back in June will address those issues. There is no point in having a review that says, ‘Well, we will keep 6585 doing this for a year.’ It has got to come back and those reviews have to talk about how these services are going to be sustainable in the longer term. I think that actually speaks to some of the other issues that were raised, not just by the Speaker, but also by the Post Office Chair, talking about outsourcing, commercial charging and the commercial operation of some of these services. For a long time, I think, that has been the attitude 6590 of Government. It has been, ‘Of course we can deliver services through the Post Office, they have to pay for it, and there is a cost associated with that.’ The challenge then you have is we end up where we are now with vehicle licensing and MiCard – you cannot modernise those services, not because it is the wrong thing to do, but because if you do that immediately you cripple the Post Office and the retail network. So you are not making decisions for the right reasons, you are 6595 making decisions because actually to do what you need to do you are going to have severe negative social consequences. And so I would be quite nervous, I think, about tying more financial support to some of these retailers and some of these sub-post offices to Government services in a very direct way. I think the strategic policies in the Strategic Plan do this quite well in terms of ______2839 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

the environment policy, there is a statement that says the environment is protected for its own 6600 sake and actually, why do we not say the same thing about our communities? Maybe there is value in saying, ‘Actually, maybe we do need the last bank in the village.’ Maybe Government has a role in supporting that. Not because we need it to deliver a service but because it is there as an element of that social cohesion of that community that I think Mr Henderson talked about in terms of social isolation. 6605 So some of this I think is about changing the way we think about service delivery, changing the way we think about how the citizen interacts with Government, and it has to be that way round. It has to be the citizen first, not Government first, that came out quite clearly as well. I think it also highlights the weakness with the outsourcing model that we currently have. One of the reasons, I think, we did not actively consider outsourcing – not just the fact that it would 6610 have cost and we did not have any money – was also the fact that we are seeing that it does not necessarily work. This idea that you pay people on a transaction by transaction basis actually is not providing us with a positive outcome necessarily in terms of some of the services that are currently being provided. Mr Speaker also talked a bit about the vision, where does all this come from? Well, the answer 6615 is it comes from here, it comes from Hon. Members setting policy around all of these services. This is why I wrote to all Hon. Members on 14th June and said, ‘Actually, what we need now is for you to go back to your Departments and figure out what services you could deliver locally, you should go back to your communities and ask them what services they would like to see delivered locally.’ That is the piece of work that needs to be done. I cannot do that for you, Hon. Members, 6620 you have to do that yourselves, the Departments have to come to this conclusion and say, ‘What services can we provide?’ Some Departments are doing it already, they are ahead of the game, and Treasury – it is not very often I congratulate Treasury – but Treasury are ahead of the game on this. They have already done this with their benefits service, before this even started becoming a conversation in terms 6625 of community hubs, they were already delivering a benefits service and a jobcentre service on a weekly basis in Ramsey Town Hall. They have started that process. So my challenge to Hon. Members saying, ‘What is the next step?’ Well, the next step can only come from the people that are actually responsible for delivering these services. It is to say, ‘How about you go away and have a think about how you deliver the services in a better way, how you 6630 might deliver these services in locations closer to your communities.’ That is the challenge, and I do not think officers can deliver that, I do not think that necessarily a working group can deliver that, that has to be delivered by the policy makers, and that is us collectively, I think. In answer to Mr Speaker’s question, has he missed something? I think, yes, he has. He has missed that piece of the puzzle that actually is that element of responsibility that we all bear for 6635 not just talking about change – which we are so good at doing here; talking about things – let’s go away and do something. I think Mr Harmer mentioned one of the things that he was quite supportive of was the fact that we are not just talking about this, we are going to try it, and if it does not work we will change what we are doing. We have to be open to that, we have to be open to not succeeding in 6640 everything that we do so. So I would encourage Members to say, ‘Actually, maybe we do not need to start with a welcome centre down south, maybe the first service to start with down south is a jobcentre or a benefits centre or something else.’ The reason we have not started a southern service with the Welcome Centre is purely down to resource, there are not enough staff to spread the load around; 6645 not yet, there will be. But actually, why does that have to be the first place you start? You could start your community hub with anything. We have had a lot of conversations with local authorities and other bodies –

The Speaker: Sorry, if the Hon. Member will give way … will he expand a bit on the on the yet 6650 bit of his commitment there, please? ______2840 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

Mr Hooper: Yes, as I explained earlier this morning, there are already conversations around a southern wellbeing hub in Thie Rosien, and that is a very good location, I think, for a southern office. I know there have already been conversations as well with some of the local authorities and it could very well be that if they can make some space available and there is a service that 6655 wants to use it we can marry the two together. That is essentially what we are doing here is marrying a space with a service. So let’s hear from the Departments who think they can provide these services; let’s hear from Members and from local authorities about what they want to see; and let’s see if we can do it. I do not see this as a hard sell, if I am honest! I think the Chief Minister described as a ‘no-brainer’, 6660 it really is in some respects. Ms Edge talked about this being a limited community presence and obviously it is to start with, I described it in my opening remarks as a gradual evolution, it is not a big bang. I did not want to wait two years or three years while we pulled all the services together and then say, ‘Right, we are now going to deliver all this from a particular location.’ It has to be gradual. It has to be 6665 something that reacts to community feedback, to be led by people actually, to put it simply. And so I would not expect the launch to be a massive community announcement with community presence. It has to be, I think, that gradual opening up, and in some places around the Island it may very well be a limited community presence because that may be all that is wanted. That may be all that is required. I do not want to be delivering in Ballaugh a full suite of Government services, 6670 with all the costs that that might entail, if actually the people of Ballaugh are not interested in having a full suite of Government services on their doorstep. That is not, I think, what this is about. I was also quite interested in comments that were made by both Ms Edge and the Vice-Chair of the Post Office, Mr Thomas, around moving Government services from post offices into hubs. I am not aware that we have done that, not intentionally at any rate. I am not aware that the 6675 services that I am talking about and the Committee is focused on, those advice services, those support services, are currently provided by post offices. There is an open question, I suppose, as to whether they could be, which comes back to Mr Speaker’s point around outsourcing, could some of the services be provided if the right training was provided to post office staff? Quite possibly, but again that is definitely a much bigger conversation that needs to be had by service 6680 providers themselves. There was also some talk around Government expanding its footprint against private retailers. Well, again, at the moment we are using existing public service spaces, there is no expansion of footprint, it is doing what it says on the tin, essentially. I cannot really comment about the reviews around cash welfare payments, that is a Treasury 6685 initiative. All that we are seeing really in this motion, I think, is that commitment that it will be done by June next year, which I think gives some lead-in time. If Treasury can do it sooner, I do not see why they would not, but it is not up to me to commit to Treasury to doing something that really is outside of my remit. I also quite enjoyed describing closing post offices as ‘operational efficiencies’, but that is a whole separate conversation. 6690 Mr Peake talked a bit about feedback and a gradual evolution, and I think I have covered that already. Mr Robertshaw, however, made some quite interesting points around the personalisation of services, and this came up a few times. But actually, what I think we are seeing in the digital space now, is we are seeing digital services become more personalised. It is common, for example, when 6695 you do a banking transaction now with one of your online banks that a little chat box will pop up in a corner of the screen, ‘Can I help you today? Do you want to have a conversation?’ And that is a real person; I know they are moving towards artificial intelligence on that, but at the moment these are real people. At the moment it is bizarre that I can have a virtual conversation with a real member of bank 6700 staff from my home computer but I cannot have one in Peel! That is an insane situation to be in: if I want to have a chat with someone to have that personalised service I can do it virtually, but it is much harder for me to do it face-to-face, and that, I think, is what some of this is trying to ______2841 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

resolve. It is saying actually there will always be people that find it difficult to have that personal service delivered virtually, can we continue to deliver it locally? And I know that the pace of 6705 change, as Mr Henderson talked about, is quite fast and we cannot hold back the sea; that is not what we are talking about here. What we are talking about is saying there are some things that make the Island actually quite a nice place to live and perhaps that face-to-face personal service is one of them. And so if that is something that we expect as a community that is something we should be able to deliver as a Government. Let’s not just say, ‘Oh, it is going to cost money, oh, it 6710 is expensive.’ Actually, if it provides value, if it provides something towards that quality of life that we have on the Island and that we expect on the Island, then it is worth doing, and that is the crux of what I think we are talking about here. Mrs Lord-Brennan, the Hon. Member of Council, said we are in a bind. I completely agree with that, actually. The only thing I would say is October is the earliest we could potentially get a report 6715 back, because that is the next sitting of this Hon. Court, October. If the report was finished sooner – which I have no indication as to whether it could be or not – we could not really debate it until October anyway, so October seems to be the next sensible time. But the one thing that Mrs Lord-Brennan said that made a lot of sense is in the intervening period between now and then, or between now and June, or between now and next December, 6720 we could lose some of the services that are already being provided, we could lose those services in the interim. She is absolutely right, it is exactly what I said during the debate around the postal strategy, it is exactly what Mr Baker said during the debate around the postal strategy, it is why a number of us voted against the postal strategy: because at the moment the Post Office is a great delivery partner for the Isle of Man Government because they have a lot of locations around the 6725 Island; the moment you lose those locations the attractiveness disappears. Why would you engage with an organisation that has one location on the Island or six locations? It is not as good as an organisation that has 20 locations and so it limits, naturally, I think, the scope of what could be provided by that organisation. Now, I am not saying we should not engage, we absolutely should, and there may be some 6730 things that can be done through that model, but let’s be quite honest about this, some of the decisions that have been taken over the last few years are naturally limiting some of the options that are now available to us, which I think is the exact point Mrs Lord-Brennan was making. If we do not make these decisions soon we are going to find our options narrowing and narrowing until we are forced down a track that perhaps we do not like. 6735 Mr Robertshaw also said we should keep it simple, it must be describable and identifiable, and I completely agree with him on that. At the end of the day, we are trying to sell a service to the public, it cannot be overcomplicated. It has to be something that everybody can understand. I would like to thank Members of Council, Mr Greenhill and Mr Henderson, for their quite helpful comments. Mr Henderson talked extensively about social changes and social isolation but 6740 again it came back to providing what the community wants, which I think circles back to this idea of let’s try things, let’s not just wait for the community to tell us what they want. How about we try things and see if the community likes it, see if it works and see if it is taken up? I think both sides of those coins need to work quite well. Mr Thomas talked quite a bit about outcomes, person focused, the credit union as well, the 6745 card. Now, the credit union card is an interesting one. We did discuss with the Post Office about their potential entry into that space, about whether they could provide some kind of digital banking or transaction service, and it did not seem to me that they were particularly keen on that idea, for a variety of reasons. But actually, if the credit union are doing that, maybe they are a better partner to use for some of these services. I do not know the answer to that, but it was an 6750 interesting point to make, as well as the fact there are more than two reviews going on, absolutely valid. The only two referenced in here are the ones that Tynwald specifically, I think, was interested in the motion that we debated in December, but I do not think he is wrong. The one thing I think I would disagree with him on, he said that I am very passionate about pushing services into local communities and making services more accessible locally. I agree with ______2842 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

6755 that to an extent, but what I am actually passionate about is giving people a choice and giving staff a choice as to where they work from, giving people a choice as to where they access a service or how they access a service, it is definitely tied into the Digital Strategy and it is definitely tied into some of the work around digital inclusion as well. He also said that some of these decisions around the two services, the vehicle and driver 6760 licensing and the Treasury MiCard system, might be made between now and next June, along with other services that are provided, that is absolutely true, but at least these dates in the motion provide a lead-in time, so whatever decisions are made between now and next June, there will be a commitment, at least from this Hon. Court, that those services will be retained until next December. So, yes, decisions may very well be made, I cannot stop Government making decisions, 6765 but at least what we are saying today is whatever decisions you make it will not take effect until after December, which does try and provide at least that 18 months’ worth of certainty from here. And just to clarify his question around are the Post Office and the MUA in Government? Yes, I think they are, I think the public would see them as being Government operations. as part of Government. I do not think I am overly concerned about the terminology that is being used in the 6770 Report, they are definitely Government bodies. Just to close, I think Mrs Maska covered it reasonably well with her remarks, so next time I will get her to write my speech! It was definitely much more succinct than I was able to be. Do not get hung up on location, the appetite, the energy, the drive absolutely has to continue into the next House after the election. We have to keep this momentum going because otherwise this will just 6775 peter out. And that is one of the recommendations in the Report, really, let’s keep this going and not forget about it, not stop it happening, and that is why I think we are recommending that it has some kind of executive oversight because we could just report straight back to Tynwald, but if there is not someone within the executive with some responsibility to keep driving this forward it will peter out. That is why we suggest the Cabinet Office, because naturally that is where the 6780 Welcome Centre sits and that is where other operations sit, it does kind of stack up. I will just finish with the Lord Bishop’s comments, I had not realised we were asking spiritual questions, that has definitely got to be a first for me in this Hon. Court! But his comments are very well constructed and very welcome, I think. That conversation around relationship and trust brings us back to that idea that if we value some of these things that go on we have to support them. 6785 We cannot keep pretending that they are linked in with services and that we have to find some way of covering all this up. Let’s just be honest: do we value our communities? Do we value community services? Do we value community cohesion? If we do, I am sorry, but that is the simple question for me. It is not a complicated debate. If we value it we have to pay for it somehow. Let’s not try and hide this under layers and layers of complicated red tape and explanations and 6790 excuses. If you value something, we support it. (A Member: Hear, hear.) That is what I think we are asking for today, just that support to carry on with this approach, carry on trying things and seeing how they work, carry on failing and succeeding and just seeing where we end up at the end of it. And with that, Mr President, I beg to move. 6795 Mr Robertshaw: Hear, hear.

The President: Hon. Members, we have Item 9 before us, that Tynwald receives the Chief Minister’s Community and Public Engagement Committee Report and approves the 6800 recommendations. I put that to the Court. Those in favour, please say aye; those against, please say no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.

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10. Police Act 1993 – Chief Constable’s Annual Report 2020-2021 – Debate commenced

The Minister for Justice and Home Affairs to move:

That the Chief Constable’s Annual Report 2020-2021 [GD No 2021/0026] be received.

The President: We move to Item 10, the Police Act 1993, and I call the Minister for Justice and Home Affairs to move.

6805 The Minister for Justice and Home Affairs (Mr Cregeen): Thank you, Mr President. Under section 4A of the Police Act 1993, I am required to move that the Chief Constable’s Annual Report 2021 is received by this Hon. Court. Hon. Members, I should like to begin today by quoting from the Chief Constable’s letter to me, in which he states:

[This] year was like no other as the Constabulary learned to deal with the effects of a global pandemic.

6810 Hon. Members, how true that statement is. Life has changed for us all over the last year, as we faced the unprecedented challenges of a global pandemic, the effects of which will remain with us for some time. One of the main themes in this Report is the Isle of Man Constabulary’s response to the pandemic, the COVID-19 pandemic, a global health crisis unlike anything most of us will have 6815 experienced in our lifetime. A human, economic and social crisis. Over the past year, we have endured three lockdowns, each of which had their own challenges and the Constabulary played an important and vital role, working tirelessly and collaborating with other Government agencies to mitigate the threats posed by COVID-19, to protect the health service and safeguard the public, whilst at the same time keeping police officers safe and well. 6820 The adoption of the ‘four E’s’, a framework set out by the National Police Chiefs Council, meant that the Constabulary took a structured approach of engaging the public, explaining the law and encouraging those who broke the rules to stop, before, at a last resort, enforcing. The visible police presence did much to reassure people that safety was being taken seriously and that our beautiful Island was protected. Their work was, and is, vital. My Department is proud to work alongside 6825 them to ensure that we all live in a healthy and safe Island. I would like to take this opportunity to sincerely thank my colleagues in the Police at all levels, the police officers, the special constables, the support staff, the community volunteers and those within the voluntary Youth Scheme, for their unfailing commitment over the past year and in particular with dealing with the pandemic. (Several Members: Hear, hear.) This is a sentiment I 6830 am sure all Hon. Members will share. I appreciate that this is a statement on the Chief Constable’s Report, but I believe it would be remiss of me if I did not also congratulate the other services within my Department, who have worked together in very difficult circumstances during the COVID emergency. Emergency Planning and our Civil Defence volunteers, the Fire and Rescue Service, the Communications Division, the 6835 Prison and Probation Service and the Chief Executive’s office. Before moving on, I would also like Hon. Members to take a moment to pay tribute to two much loved and respected retired police sergeants who sadly died during the year: John Kinrade, better known as ‘Laxey’, and Richard ‘Richie’ Lloyd, who was the second Manx resident to die from the virus, both of whom are sadly missed. 6840 Hon. Members, as has been the case for some years now, the Chief Constable’s Report is designed to be read online. Embedded within the text of the Report are useful links to the ongoing measures, statistics and benchmarking against other jurisdictions that provide evidence for the

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Force’s effectiveness. This allows the Report to provide links to both in-depth detail and relevant infographics, whilst the Report body remains clear and concise. I am pleased to be able to say yet 6845 again that the Isle of Man continues to be one of the safest jurisdictions in the British Isles. This is despite seeing an increase in recorded crime in the Island. Overall crime rose by 18%, which is almost wholly composed of increases in the seizure of controlled drugs, low-level assaults and fraud offences. The way in which online fraud was recorded changed this year. Previously, victims of online and telephone fraud would report to UK 6850 Action Fraud. This year, however, such offences have been recorded here on Island, which accounts for a rise in fraud offences of 50%. The Connect computer system has allowed for better analysis of crime and incidents, and the benefits of this system will become more and more evident as time progresses. Crime levels on Island remain well below half of those recorded in England and Wales, and this continues to make 6855 the Island one of the safest, as well as most special places to live. One of the core outcomes this Government is aiming for is that all of us should be able to live our lives safe from crime and danger, and through the continued hard work of the Constabulary, this continues to be the case. The pandemic affected us all in different ways. For many, the three lockdowns had a serious effect on people’s mental health and well-being. As is noted in the Chief 6860 Constable’s Report, mental health demands increased by 11%, the highest level the Constabulary has ever encountered, with the number of suspected suicides, sadly, being abnormally high. The Constabulary has continued to work with a variety of partner agencies and the strong relationship between the Police and the mental health professionals ensured that effective help was provided to those most vulnerable in our society. The Constabulary has also continued to 6865 work, led by the Public Health Directorate, aimed at suicide prevention. This has led to the instigation of a ‘suicide rapid response’ function, which allows for urgent support to be provided to those affected by suicide of a relative or close friend. One of the themes of the Department’s Policing Plan for 2020-21, within the objective of keeping communities safe, was supporting neighbourhood policing. The neighbourhood policing 6870 teams, although disrupted by the various lockdowns, had the opportunity to demonstrate that they will help make the Isle of Man an even safer place to be. (Mr Quine: Hear, hear.) The Policing Plan for the coming year highlights, as areas of priority, the need for further embedded neighbourhood policing in communities and address antisocial behaviour, particularly in young people. 6875 Once again, both drug crime and drug-related violent crime has continued to be a focus for the Constabulary this year. Border restrictions meant that suppliers of drugs needed to find alternative ways of importing drugs to the Island and exporting the financial proceeds. As a result, the Constabulary made more individual seizures of controlled drugs than ever before, and seized considerable amounts of money. It should also be noted that the success of the more frequent 6880 seizures of smaller amounts of drugs has inevitably led to more recorded crimes. The proactive approach of the Constabulary, along with partner Forces in the UK, in their efforts to frustrate, disrupt and dismantle the activity of organised crime groups involved in the supply of illicit drugs has been critical in preserving the safety of our Island and combating the acts of violence and intimidation that sadly characterises the illegal drug trade. 6885 It is concerning to note that increasingly the Constabulary are seeing the exploitation by serious criminals of vulnerable children and adults in relation to the supply and trade in drugs. In his Report, the Chief Constable highlights the changing patterns of offending, with young people becoming involved in drugs at a very young age. It is vital, Hon. Members, that we protect the vulnerable to prevent them from being exploited and falling into the cycle of drug dealing and 6890 drug abuse and the serious consequences that stem from involvement with drugs, to help them turn their lives around. Hon. Members, I remain concerned that the trade in drugs remains a significant threat to the safety of the Isle of Man, and as I highlighted in my speech on the Chief Constable’s Report for 2019-2020 last October, addiction, health problems, mental health problems, violence, theft, ______2845 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

6895 debt, financial crime and sadly death are all consequences of the illegal drug trade. Drugs destroy countless lives. Accordingly, this is an area that I have highlighted as a priority for the Chief Constables in the Policing Plan for 2021-2022. Hon. Members, violent crime on our Island has increased for three consecutive years now. While some of the increase has been due to the continuing improvement in recording practices, 6900 much of the increase is linked to the supply of controlled drugs. I have therefore included in the Policing Plan for the coming year a priority area: the implementation of a violent crime reduction plan. My Department will continue to support the Constabulary in combating this scourge on the safety of our Island. As I reported in the House of Keys in May this year, the Cabinet Office, in readiness for the 6905 Island’s border restrictions being lifted, has brought together, in phase one of the development of a border force, existing services, functions and officers it has responsibility for, together under the Isle of Man Borders Division. The Constabulary are working with the Cabinet Office to continue the progression towards an established border agency to ensure more effective measures are in place to protect the Island from organised crime and to address the increase in drug imports. It is 6910 vitally important that more information on those who are travelling is gathered and that there is a strong presence at our borders. Criminal activities also have the potential to damage the Island’s reputation and international financial standing, and the Economic Crime Unit and the Financial Intelligence Unit continue to focus on addressing those threats. During the year, the Constabulary assumed responsibility for 6915 the Office of Cyber Security and Information Assurance (OCSIA). Last year, the number of recorded assaults rose again and, sadly, assaults on police officers were at the highest recorded with 50% of assaults on officers being committed by juveniles. Members may recall that the overarching objective of the Justice Reform Bill, which is currently awaiting Royal Assent, is prevention of crime, appropriate response to crimes committed, 6920 rehabilitation of offenders and finding new ways of working with offenders and those on the verge of offending. The Constabulary continues, through the work of the prevention and early intervention team, to work with young people who are on the verge of offending or who have started to offend at a low level or behave in an antisocial way. Diversionary schemes are put in place with remedies and interventions that are designed to stop reoffending. This restorative and 6925 preventative approach is being taken towards all new offenders, not just the youth, with the aim of reducing reoffending rates. As with the adult population, the pandemic took its toll on the mental health and well-being of our young people. Schools play an important role in supporting our young people with their mental health and provide stability, a route of consistency to many young people. Also, as the 6930 Chief Constable has highlighted in his Report, there is a need for further understanding into the impact of adverse childhood experiences on young people and, as he rightly states, the pandemic has increased the relevance of expediting this understanding, Moving forward, as we emerge from the pandemic, it is crucial that we as an Island community do everything we can to support and encourage our young people, to do our utmost to help our 6935 young people make the right choices and build a better future. The Constabulary continue to work to improve engagement with young people and the Chief Constable highlights the success of the Police Youth Scheme and also pays tribute the excellent work undertaken by the volunteers of the Special Constabulary. In the Policing Plan for 2020-21, I stressed the need to reduce the harm caused by domestic 6940 abuse. The pandemic highlighted further the issues of domestic abuse on our Island and the Constabulary worked, with partner agencies, to develop initiatives such as creating safe spaces within supermarkets and pharmacies where the victims of domestic abuse were able to contact support services, and providing emergency accommodation for victims have helped victims of domestic abuse, particularly during periods of lockdown. 6945 During the year the Domestic Abuse Act was passed, a very significant piece of legislation which provides the legal basis for protection and support for people in abusive domestic environments ______2846 T138 TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 20th JULY 2021

and brings to justice abusers. This piece of legislation, along with the Justice Reform Bill and the Sexual Offences and Obscene Publications Bill represent the most fundamental reform of our justice system on our Island in over a decade. The Sexual Offences and Obscene Publications Bill 6950 passed last year – and has now got Royal Assent today – will empower the Constabulary to investigate a wide variety of offences, including those committed electronically. The Bill seeks to rationalise and modernise our legislation so as to better protect our community from harm and set a high penalty for those who might do harm within that community. The Department recognises the strength of public feeling with respect to the harm caused by 6955 sexual offences. Over the year, there was an increase of 15% in the reporting of sexual offences, and I am pleased that members of the public feel able and confident to report what has happened to them. The creation of the Island’s Sexual Assault Referral Centre is an important project which will help ensure that victims of sexual assault are able to be seen in a timely and professional manner on Island and most importantly be provided with support and guidance they need. The 6960 progress of this project was delayed by COVID-19 but has picked up at a pace. I would once again like to take the opportunity to commend the work the Constabulary undertakes in investigating these crimes and seeking justice for the victims and their families, which is outstanding. In spite of the increase in recorded crime, levels of personal safety are far higher in the Isle of Man than elsewhere in the British Isles, and this shows, Hon. Members, that the Constabulary 6965 remains the most successful in the British Isles. It is also positive to see the Constabulary over the last year has continued to undertake an audit of its own practices, policies and procedures to support a more inclusive workplace through the work of the Isle of Man Constabulary scrutiny group. I note with concern that the main cause of non-COVID-related absence in the Police was stress, 6970 depression and anxiety. We ask a great deal of these men and women and we have a duty to support both their physical and mental health. It is encouraging to see the progress that has been made in dealing with post-traumatic stress disorder and the work being undertaken by both within the Department of Health and Social Care, Manx Care and external charities to support officers with this condition. 6975 Hon. Members will note that in the related report of the Police Complaints Commissioner for the period there has been seven complaints received for the last financial year, with two ongoing complaints from the previous year being resolved in this reporting period. The figures are very low considering the level of activity from the Police and exemplify the high standards of the Constabulary. 6980 Looking to the future, the Chief Constable’s term of office will end in 2022 and as he takes a well-deserved retirement, having served the Isle of Man Constabulary faithfully since 1984, and holds the accolade of being the first officer from the Isle of Man to rise through the ranks and take up the position of Chief Constable, succession planning is a key issue. And although this has been hampered somewhat by the pandemic, I have discussed this matter of the appointment of a 6985 Deputy Chief Constable with the Chief Constable and this process is now under way. Hon. Members, in light of the COVID pandemic, the future is difficult to predict and the world is and will be a different place. However, we as an Island community can continue to have confidence in our Constabulary and the work undertaken to keep us safe. I finish by offering again my thanks to the Chief Constable, his officers, special constables, 6990 support staff and the many volunteers who work tirelessly to ensure that the Island is a safe place for us all. Their work is vital and my Department is proud to work alongside them to ensure that we live in a healthy and safe Island. Mr President, I beg to move.

6995 The President: I call on Mrs Barber.

Mrs Barber: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second and reserve my remarks.

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Suspension of Standing Orders to complete Item 10 – Motion lost

The President: We have just about come to the appointed hour, Hon. Members.

7000 Mr Cregeen: Mr President, could I move that we finish this Item?

Several Members: No.

The President: Seconder? 7005 Mr Cannan: Happy to second that.

The President: Right. We have a proposal to move to finish this Item. We will go straight to a vote. We need, I believe, 22. 7010 Mr Boot, I am sorry, but you are not eligible to vote. If you could step out of the Chamber as you are not eligible to vote. (Mr Boot: Okay.) I just remind those online to please make your comment in the chat box.

Electronic voting resulted as follows:

In Tynwald – Ayes 9, Noes 19

FOR AGAINST Dr Allinson Mr Ashford Miss August-Hanson Mrs Barber Mr Baker Mrs Caine Mr Cannan Mrs Christian Mr Cregeen Mrs Corlett Mrs Lord-Brennan Mr Greenhill Mr Perkins Mr Harmer Mr Quayle Mr Henderson Mrs Sharpe The Lord Bishop Mrs Maska Mr Mercer Mr Moorhouse Mr Peake Mrs Poole-Wilson Mr Quine Mr Robertshaw Mr Shimmins Mr Speaker Mr Thomas

The President: With 9 for, 19 against, obviously the motion fails. So that will conclude.

Procedural

The President: I would just like to confirm that tomorrow we will continue with the hybrid 7015 model for this sitting. I believe it has worked well – a few minor technical issues. The only comment I would like to make: if there are Members who are operating virtually and do wish to enter the Chamber that they do resume their same seat. That would be helpful in voting purposes. (Several Members: Hear, hear.) So with that, Hon. Members, we will resume again tomorrow morning. Thank you very much.

The Court adjourned at 8.02 p.m. ______2848 T138