Gilles Vidal Mi volimo automobile Gilles Vidal We Love Cars

razgovarao fotografije photographs by Design (pd) interviewed by Peugeot Design Lab (pdl) Laurent Nivalle (ln) portreti portraits Damil Kalogjera

Daniel Tomičić

Razgovarali u Zagrebu, 18. listopada, 2013. Interviewed in Zagreb on 18 October 2013

¶ Gilles Vidal danas je kao direktor dizajna Peugeot automo- ¶ As the Director of Design at Peugeot, Gilles Vidal is one of bila jedan od najistaknutijih svjetskih dizajnera. Na čelu tima the most prominent designers in the world today. He runs a od dvjestotinjak dizajnera i modelara osobno je odgovoran team of about two hundred designers and modellers, and he is za dizajn svakoga Peugeot proizvoda. Peugeot je zajedno s personally responsible for the design of each Peugeot product. Citroënom dio grupe psa koja je u vlasništvu obitelji Peu- Peugeot and Citroën are part of the psa Group owned by the geot. Vidal je 1996., nakon diplome na Art Center College of Peugeot family. After graduating from the Art Center College Design u švicarskome Veveyu, započeo karijeru u Citroënu da of Design at Vevey, Switzerland, Vidal started his career at Cit- bi napredovao do pozicije voditelja dizajna konceptnih auto- roën in 1996, and moved up to the position of head designer mobila. Godine 2009. prelazi na istu poziciju, ali u Peugeot. for concept cars. In 2009, he moved on to the same position in S te je pozicije sljedeće godine unaprijeđen u direktora diza- Peugeot, and one year later he was promoted to the Director jna Peugeot automobila. U Citroënu je kao dizajner ekste- of Design of Peugeot cars. As an exterior designer at Citroën, rijera radio na projektima C3 (1. generacija), C3 Pluriel, C2 i he worked at C3 projects (first generation), C3 Pluriel, C2, and Picasso (1. generacija), a pod njegovim su vodstvom nastali Picasso (first generation), while his guidance led to the devel- koncepti Osmose, C-Cactus i C-Metisse. U Peugeotu su pod opment of the concepts for Osmose, C-Cactus, and C-Metisse. njegovim vodstvom nastali koncepti bb1, sr1, hx1 i Onyx te Under his command, Peugeot saw the origin of bb1, sr1, hx1

182 oris, broj 85, godina 2014 oris, number 85, year 2014 Gilles Vidal, Intervju Gilles Vidal, Interview 183 and the Onyx concept, as well as the series models 208, 2008, efikasniji automobil konstruiranjem novoga motora, ili lakši not the best strategy for Peugeot, but we could say that in and 308. After bb1, Jean-Pierre Ploué, Director of Design of uvođenjem novoga materijala, želimo to izraziti izgledom, 20 years we want to be the best mass producer of cars and the psa Group, assigned him to come up with a new design for estetikom, volumenom i proporcijama automobila. To je slo- compete with premium brands. We could say that we want to Peugeot. Vidal reinterpreted the whole brand, from the logo žen globalni projekt s kojime se svakodnevno bavimo. have a unique position – to provide greater quality than the to the front bumper, lights, windows, silhouette… Peugeot oris — Kako je moguće predvidjeti što će 2045. biti naj- premium segment, but to be more affordable and offer design can thank from Turin, the best automobile design bolje za Peugeot? To je užasno dugo razdoblje. ¶ gilles that is more exciting. In order to achieve that, we need tech- studio in the world, for its visual identity; Pininfarina designed vidal — Naravno da ne znamo kako će automobili tada nology – engines, gear-boxes, alternative fuel that we may all from the 1960s to the beginning of this century. izgledati. Model je u prosjeku na tržištu sedam godina, dakle not have now and that we need to develop. We are experi- za nas su to tri generacije unaprijed. Ono što možemo reći menting with hybrid air engines; we have a 208 with a co2 ORIS — Where do you find inspiration? ¶ gilles vidal — Car jest kako će evoluirati društva diljem svijeta, kako će se mije- emission of only 46 g/km, but with relatively high strength. It designers find inspiration everywhere but in cars – we focus on njati globalne organizacije, gospodarstvo itd. Na toj osnovi could be one of the methods to achieve that goal. cars out of love, not for ideas. When we talk to fashion design- predviđamo potrebe osobne mobilnosti. Naravno, ne znamo ORIS — How do you envision personal mobility in 20 ers, architects or furniture designers, we hear that they follow kakva će za 20 godina biti estetika, ali možemo, na primjer, reći years? Will most drivers rent rather than buy cars? ¶ gilles our work and they praise us, and we also follow and praise their da želimo biti bolji od Porschea, da želimo proizvoditi manje vidal — Car renting will definitely see great progress. Those work: that’s the circle of inspiration. A designer is like a sponge, modela, samo sportske modele itd. Taj smjer očito nije prava will not be classic rentals; it will be a matter of flexibility. We absorbing everything around him and bringing something inno- strategija za Peugeot, ali bismo, recimo, mogli reći da za 20 live at a time when younger generations want instant solu- vative to life with their creativity and feeling, something rel- godina želimo biti najbolji proizvođač masovnih automobila tions. They do not want to be tied to anything – they just evant for the future, and adapted to its purpose and the society. na svijetu i konkurirati premium brendovima. Da želimo imati want to get a service when they need it. They do not want

Peugeot Design; sr1, serijski modeli 208, 2008 i 308. Nakon koncepta bb1 Jean- ORIS — How do you define the future of Peugeot? Do you jedinstvenu poziciju – biti kvalitetniji od premium segmenta, two-year mobile phone subscriptions that they cannot cancel. sr1, konceptni konceptni automobil, ¶ automobil, 2010. Pierre Ploué, direktor dizajna grupe psa, dao mu je zadatak follow trends? gilles vidal — A brand, especially an auto- s pristupačnijim cijenama i uzbudljivijim dizajnom. Da bismo They want to throw their mobile phones the next morning 2010., proizvođač: psa osmisliti novi dizajn Peugeota. Vidal je reinterpretirao cijeli mobile brand, cannot change constantly. We have to build to postigli, potrebna nam je tehnologija – motori, mjenjači, and get another one. We live in a disposable culture – not in Peugeot Citroën sr1, concept brend, od logotipa, preko prednje maske, svjetala, prozora, a strategy and define what we want to be in 20 years. I will alternativni pogoni koje možda sada nemamo i trebamo ih the sense of garbage disposal because new generations care automobile, 2010 Peugeot Design; sr1, siluete... Svoj vizualni identitet Peugeot može zahvaliti naj- not be here in 20 years, but Peugeot will, and we have to razviti. Eksperimentiramo s hibridnim motorima na zrak, about the environment and have good morals, but there is concept automobile, (pd) 2010, manufacturer: boljemu studiju za dizajn automobila na svijetu, Pininfarini know today where we want to be because it will be easier to psa Peugeot Citroën iz Torina, koji je od 60-ih godina prošloga stoljeća, pa sve do make it happen. Little by little, we will introduce elements, (pd) početka ovoga, dizajnirao sve Peugeote. details, steer the brand towards the goal. A brand has to have a global long-term aim. Our aim is to design the next model, oris — Gdje pronalazite inspiraciju? ¶ gilles vidal — Diza- but it also extends further, to a long-term vision and ambition. jneri automobila inspiraciju pronalaze svugdje osim u automo- Naturally, in terms of aesthetics and style, the design has to bilima; njih pratimo iz ljubavi, ali ne zbog ideja. U razgovoru serve the function and innovation of the direction we wish to s modnim dizajnerima, arhitektima ili dizajnerima namještaja pursue. For example, when we create a more effective car by čujemo da oni prate ono što mi radimo i hvale nas, a mi isto- constructing a new engine, or a lighter car by introducing a vremeno pratimo njih i hvalimo ih, to je krug inspiracije. Diza- new type of material, we want to express it in its appearance, jner je kao spužva, upija sve oko sebe i svojom kreativnošću i aesthetics, volume, and proportions. It is a complex global osjećajem stvara nešto inovativno, relevantno za budućnost, project that we deal with daily. prilagođeno svrsi i društvu. ORIS — How is it possible to predict what will be best oris — Kako određujete budućnost Peugeota? Pratite li for Peugeot in 2045? It is an awfully long time. ¶ gilles trendove? ¶ gilles vidal — Brend, pogotovo automobilski, vidal — Of course we don’t know what cars will look like ne može se stalno mijenjati. Moramo graditi strategiju i odre- then. A model spends approximately seven years on the mar- diti što želimo biti za 20 godina. Ja tada više neću biti ovdje, ali ket, so for us it is thinking three generations ahead. What Peugeot hoće i danas moramo znati kamo želimo stići jer ćemo we can say is how societies around the world will evolve, tada to lakše i ostvariti. Malo-pomalo uvodit ćemo elemente, how global organizations will change, how the economy will detalje, okretati kormilo u smjeru koji će nas dovesti do cilja. change, etc. Based on that, we predict the needs of personal Brend mora imati globalni dugoročni cilj. Naš je cilj dizajni- mobility. Naturally, we don’t know what aesthetic standards rati sljedeći model, ali i dalje imati dugoročnu viziju i ambiciju. will be present in 20 years, but we can, for example, say that Naravno, estetski i stilski dizajn moraju služiti funkciji i ino- we want to be better than Porsche, that we want to produce vaciji smjera u kojemu želimo ići. Na primjer, kada napravimo less models, only sports models, etc. That direction is clearly

184 oris, broj 85, godina 2014 oris, number 85, year 2014 Gilles Vidal, Intervju Gilles Vidal, Interview 185 imamo model 208 s emisijom co2 od samo 46 g/km, a isto- this element of rejection. Young people want to satisfy their zanimljivi. U budućnosti će to tržište sigurno biti puno veće. ORIS — Is it true that people do not like cars any more? vremeno s relativno velikom snagom. To bi mogao biti jedan needs, impulses, and desires immediately: I want that today! Mogli bismo dva sata razgovarati samo o novim nišama koje će ¶ gilles vidal — Some people do not like cars, and it has od načina postizanja cilja. It can be a sport coupé for the weekend, a scooter for the se pojaviti u budućnosti. Možete predvidjeti moguće budućno- become an important issue. Young people, naturally, see the oris — Kako vidite osobnu mobilnost za 20 godina? Hoće rest of the week, a delivery vehicle to help a friend move into sti i odabrati jednu od njih za svoj smjer razvoja. car as a handy means of transportation, but also as a noisy li većina vozača unajmljivati, a ne kupovati automobile? a new apartment on a Saturday morning. This is just one path oris — Danas je odgovor na nove potrebe rast broja crosso- polluter because it undoubtedly is. However, most people need ¶ gilles vidal — Najam automobila sigurno će jako napre- because older generations will still be alive. In the next five vera. ¶ gilles vidal — Da, obiteljski automobili s 4 – 5 sje- their own means of transportation. People who do not like cars dovati. Ne radi se o klasičnome rent-a-caru, nego o fleksibil- decades we will have to offer various options for several gen- dala sve su češće crossoveri. Ljudi više ne žele monovolumene typically live and work in the centre of town, commute by bus, nosti. Živimo u društvu u kojemu mlađe generacije žele instan- erations until we move onto something entirely new that will jer, iako su jako praktični, nisu privlačni. Ljudi ih kupuju jer ih subway, bike. They only see the downsides of cars because they tnost. Ne žele biti ni za što vezani, nego samo primiti uslugu completely rid us of the format we know today. trebaju, ne zato što ih žele. Crossoveri i suv-ovi ispunjavaju do not need them. They voice their opinion and that is why kad im je potrebna. Ne žele dvogodišnju pretplatu za mobitel ORIS — What new types of vehicles can we expect today? jednaku funkciju, ali se u njih možete i zaljubiti, oni su poželjni. people write about it. However, driving a car is definitely not the koju ne mogu raskinuti. Žele sljedeće jutro baciti mobitel i ¶ gilles vidal — In terms of individual solutions, everyone oris — Je li istina da ljudi više ne vole automobile? ¶ gilles main cause of pollution – there are at least ten bigger polluters. imati drugi. Živimo u kulturi bacanja, ali ne bacanja u smeće wants flexibility. Today you can choose among a bicycle, a bicy- vidal — Neki ljudi ne vole automobile i to postaje važno ORIS — Including cows. ¶ gilles vidal — Including cows. jer su nove generacije jako ekološki osviještene i moralne. Radi cle with a power assist motor, a scooter, a large scooter, a pow- pitanje. Naravno da mladi automobil vide kao praktično pri- Automobile pollution is interesting because it will force eve- se o odbacivanju. Mladi žele odmah zadovoljiti svoje potrebe, erful motorcycle – from the smallest to the biggest, but there jevozno sredstvo, ali istovremeno i kao bučan izvor zagađenja ryone – car manufacturers and everyone else – to rethink impulzivne potrebe i želje: Danas želim to! To može biti sport- are many gaps in the offer as well. What is between a small car jer bez sumnje to i jest. Ipak, većini ljudi potrebno je osobno the way cars function in urban areas and the way we design ski coupé za vikend, skuter za ostatak tjedna, dostavno vozilo and a large scooter? That is why we launched the bb1 concept prijevozno sredstvo. Tipično, ljudi koji ne vole automobile city cars. That is probably why everyone is rushing to develop

Dizajner upija sve oko sebe i stvara nešto inovativno, relevantno za budućnost

A designer is absorbing everything around him and bringing something innovative, something relevant for the future

za prijateljevu selidbu u subotu ujutro. To je samo jedan put jer car. What is between a small scooter and a bicycle with a power žive i rade u centru grada, putuju autobusom, podzemnom hybrid and electric cars because sooner or later – better će starije generacije još biti žive. U sljedećoj polovici stoljeća assist motor? There are two large gaps right there. There are željeznicom i biciklom. Oni vide samo loše strane automobila sooner than later – we have to find a solution for those prob- morat ćemo nuditi razne opcije za nekoliko generacija dok se some vehicles that fill the gaps, like Renault Twizy. Even though jer za njime nemaju potrebe. Izražavaju svoje mišljenje i zato lems, so this initiative is not bad. ne prebacimo na nešto zaista novo, što će nas u potpunosti all of them have major drawbacks, there are definitely inter- se o tome piše. Daleko od toga da automobilska vožnja u ORIS — Does that mean that we will see architects, urban riješiti formata koji danas poznajemo. esting as experiments. This market will be much larger in the najvećoj mjeri zagađuje planet – postoji barem deset većih developers, and car manufacturers cooperate in constructing oris — Koje nove tipove vozila možemo očekivati? ¶ gilles future. We could spend two hours just talking about new niches zagađivača. new types of roads and parking spaces in the future? ¶ gilles vidal — U smislu individualnih rješenja, svi žele fleksibilnost. that will appear in the future. You can predict possible futures oris — Uključujući i krave. ¶ gilles vidal — Uključujući i vidal — I hope so. We often conduct such projects with Danas možete birati između bicikla, bicikla s pomoćnim elek- and choose one of them for your development. krave. Fokus na automobilskome zagađenju vrlo je zanimljiv students. The last example was our cooperation with Strate tričnim pogonom, skutera, velikoga skutera, snažnoga moto- ORIS — Crossovers are a response to the new needs of today. jer će pogurnuti sve, uključujući i proizvođače automobila, na Collège, when we worked on a new global system of personal cikla, automobila, od najmanjega do najvećega, ali u toj ponudi ¶ gilles vidal — Yes, family cars with four or five seats have preispitivanje načina na koji automobili funkcioniraju u gradu mobility. In practice it is much more complex. I dream of the postoji i puno praznina. Postoji li što između maloga automo- growingly become crossovers. People do not want i načina na koji dizajniramo gradske automobile. Vjerojatno se day when we sit down with the French government and discuss bila i velikoga skutera? Zato smo ponudili bb1 konceptni auto- anymore because they are not attractive despite their con- zato svi žure napraviti hibridne i električne automobile – jer this. They would not want to discuss it with us only – they mobil. Postoji li što između maloga skutera i bicikla s pomoćnim venience. People buy them because they need them, not ionako, prije ili kasnije, a bolje prije, moramo pronaći rješenje would include Citroën and Renault. There is no sense in devel- električnim pogonom? Samo tu postoje dvije velike praznine. because they want them. A and an suv serve the za te probleme, tako da ta inicijativa nije loša. oping the system for France alone because it would have to be Postoji već nekoliko vozila koja ih popunjavaju, poput Renaulta same purpose, but they can make you fall in love with them, oris — Znači li to da ćemo u budućnosti vidjeti suradnju arhi- applied in many countries, so you see how the organizing pro- Twizy. Iako imaju velike mane, svi su ti eksperimenti svakako they are desirable. tekata, urbanista i proizvođača automobila u konstruiranju cess becomes more complex, you see the potential problems

186 oris, broj 85, godina 2014 oris, number 85, year 2014 Gilles Vidal, Intervju Gilles Vidal, Interview 187 oris — Sviđa mi se što umjesto riječi automobil često kori- stite pojam osobna mobilnost. Znači li to da ćete u buduć- nosti biti dizajner mobilnosti, a ne automobila? ¶ gilles vidal — Naravno. U Peugeotu već krećemo u tome smjeru. Na tržište smo upravo pustili hibridni bicikl ae21 s prtljažnikom u središtu. To je samo posljednji dodatak nizu koji seže od bicikala do kombija i uključuje sportske coupée, male gradske automobile, skutere itd. oris — Komunikacija automobila i ljudi sve se više odvija računalom. Mogu li računala i aplikacije pomoći automo- bilu da postane atraktivan poput tableta i mobitela? Koliki je vaš utjecaj na sustav zabave (infotainment) i hmi (Human Machine Interface)? ¶ gilles vidal — To je komplicirana tema. Vozaču je vožnja na prvome mjestu. Ako imate putnike, njih će možda zanimati infotainment. Model 308, na primjer, ima veliki ekran koji objedinjuje mnogo funkcija. Ne govorim o infotainmentu, nego o prečicama za upravljanje funkcijama automobila. Razlika u odnosu na potrošačku elektroniku jest u tome što ekran u parkiranom automobilu mora izdržati

Peugeot Design Lab: novih tipova cesta i parkirališta? ¶ gilles vidal — Nadam Peugeot Design Lab; dl121, Peugeot Design Lab; dl121, concept Neil Simpson, Hélène se. Često radimo takve projekte sa studentima. Posljednji konceptni bicikl, 2012., proizvođač: bicycle, 2012, manufacturer: psa psa Peugeot Citroën Peugeot Citroën Veilleux; dl122, je primjer suradnja sa Strate Collègeom za vrijeme rada na (pdl) (pdl)

konceptni bicikl, 2012., proizvođač: psa novome globalnom sustavu osobne mobilnosti. U praksi je sve Peugeot Design Lab; tp001, Peugeot Design Lab; tp001, Peugeot Citroën puno kompliciranije. Sanjam o danu kada ćemo s francuskom konceptni sportski sat, 2012. concept sports watch, 2012

Peugeot Design Lab: vladom sjesti i razgovarati o tome. Oni o tome ne bi željeli Neil Simpson, Hélène razgovarati samo s nama, nego bi uključili i Citroën i Renault. temperature od +70 °C ljeti, do −40 °C zimi i mora biti otpo- Veilleux; dl122, Sustav nema smisla razvijati samo za Francusku – on bi se ran na stotine tisuća kilometara vibracija, tako da je to potpuno concept bicycle, 2012, manufacturer: psa morao primjenjivati u puno zemalja. Vidite kako odmah raste drukčiji svijet. Moramo napraviti dvije stvari. Prvo, što je brže Peugeot Citroën kompleksnost organiziranja, vidite potencijalne probleme moguće moramo integrirati sustav u automobile i biti svjesni da

Peugeot Design, (pdl) vezane za realizaciju. Tek kada uspijemo otvoreno razgova- će oni uvijek biti sporiji i manje impresivni od potrošačke elek- in bringing it to life. Only when we get the chance to talk about rati, moći ćemo predložiti novi koncept osobne mobilnosti. Taj tronike jer moraju biti robusniji. Druga je stvar način na koji bi it openly will we be able to suggest a new concept of personal rad na konceptnom automobilu ex1 koncept ne bi se uklapao u postojeće standarde homologacije se mobiteli i tableti povezali s automobilskim računalom. Poku- mobility. This concept would not fit into the existing standards

i morali bismo stvoriti novi sustav homologacije maksimalne šavamo to riješiti aplikacijom, ali je velik problem dizajniranje of homologation, and we would have to create a new system Peugeot Design, work brzine, težine, veličine... Teško je stvoriti novi oblik osobne Peugeotove aplikacije koju mogu koristiti svi mobiteli i tableti. of homologizing maximum speed, weight, size… It is hard to on the concept ex1 mobilnosti kad imate zakonska ograničenja u koja se ne ukla- oris — Koja je uloga Peugeot Design Laba? ¶ gilles develop a new form of personal mobility when you have legisla- (ln) paju sustavi budućnosti. vidal — Peugeot Design Lab 85 – 90 % vremena dizajnira za tive limitations in which the systems of the future do not fit.

188 oris, broj 85, godina 2014 oris, number 85, year 2014 Gilles Vidal, Intervju Gilles Vidal, Interview 189 vanjske klijente, a ostalo za Peugeotove brendove. Na primjer, ORIS — I like the way you use the term personal mobility oni dizajniraju sve naše bicikle i male proizvode. Trenutačno instead of the word car. Does that mean that in the future radimo za 16 – 17 različitih tvrtki izvan grupe. Od aviona i you will be a designer of mobility rather than a designer brodova do bijele tehnike i sportske opreme. of cars? ¶ gilles vidal — Of course. We at Peugeot have oris — Jeste li na čelu Peugeot Design Laba i dizajna skutera? already set course in that direction. We have just launched a ¶ gilles vidal — Vodim Peugeot Design Lab, ali ne i sku- hybrid bicycle ae21 with a cargo box in the middle. It is just tere. Tehnički, skutere proizvodi tvrtka koja se nalazi na istoku the latest addition to a whole spectrum of products, ranging Francuske. Radi se o tvrtci koja se bavi dizajnom mobilnosti. from bicycles to vans, including sport coupés, small city cars, Zasad surađujemo samo povremeno, ali ćemo u budućnosti scooters, etc. surađivati puno više. ORIS — People start increasingly communicating with cars oris — Koja je razlika između dizajnera i stilista automobila? by using computers. Can computers and applications help ¶ gilles vidal — To je trik-pitanje. Od jezika do jezika ili od the car become as attractive as tablets and mobile phones? zemlje do zemlje ovi se pojmovi različito doživljavaju. U Fran- How much can you influence infotainment and hmi (Human cuskoj je stilist (styliste) stručnjak za industrijsku estetiku, što Machine Interface)? ¶ gilles vidal — It is a complex issue. je slično ili identično dizajneru. Dizajn nije samo estetika, to je Driving is the driver’s main concern. If you have passengers, stvaranje dobra objekta. Neki su automobili dizajnerski, a neki they might be interested in infotainment. The 308 model, for stilistički objekti. Automobil je dizajniran ako u sebi sadržava example, has a large screen that encompasses many functions. Peugeot Design inovaciju povezanu s estetikom. Kad imate automobil koji ne I am not talking about infotainment, but about shortcuts to Lab: Thomas Rohm; donosi tehničku inovaciju, radi se o stilskom objektu, iako vizu- managing car functions. The difference compared to consumer Powerboat, konceptni

alno može biti svjež i maštovit. U tome nema ničega lošeg. Za electronics is that the screen has to endure temperatures of up gliser, 2012. mene bi univerzalna definicija glasila: Dizajn je odraz funkcije, to 70°C when it is parked outside in the heat and up to do −40°C Peugeot Design inovacije i estetike; kad kreativci, inženjeri i marketeri rade in the winter, and it has to be resistant to hundreds of kilometres Lab: Thomas Rohm;

zajedno. Stil bi bio samo novi sloj na nečemu već poznatome. of vibrations, so this is a completely different story. We have to Powerboat, 2012 oris — S obzirom na to da ne dizajnirate šasiju i tehničke make two things. First, we have to integrate the systems into

(pdl) elemente, jeste li dizajner ili stilist? ¶ gilles vidal — Ovisi cars as quickly as possible and be aware that they will always Peugeot Design Lab: o projektima. Na primjer, interijer Peugeota 308 dizajniran je be a bit slower and less impressive than consumer electronics Attila Bocsi; Jethx1, konceptni zrakoplov, jer smo stvorili potpuno novu ergonomiju i geometriju kokpita, because they have to be robust. The second thing is connecting 2012. iako nema tehnološke inovacije. Prvo smo odlučili reorganizi- mobile phones and tablets with the car computer. We are try-

rati komandnu ploču, staviti manji volan, poboljšati kompletnu ing to solve that with an application, but it is hard to design a Peugeot Design Lab: Attila Bocsi; Jethx1, ergonomiju i tek smo tada počeli razmišljati o stilu. Oblici, linije Peugeot app that can be used on all mobile phones and tablets. concept jet, 2012 ¶ i estetika naglašavaju tehničke promjene – to je čin dizajni- ORIS — What does the Peugeot Design Lab do? gilles (pdl) ranja. Da smo samo napravili lijepe linije i nove oblike, to bi vidal — For 85–90% of the time the lab designs for exter- bio samo stil. nal partners, the rest of the time it designs for Peugeot brands. oris — Je li moguće dizajnirati eksterijer ili su ograničenja They design all our bicycles and small products. We are cur- aerodinamike, sigurnosti i homologacije prevelika? ¶ gilles rently working with 16 or 17 companies outside the Group. From vidal — Mislim da bi dizajniranje eksterijera značilo stva- planes and boats to household appliances and sporting goods. ranje nove siluete. Na primjer, Peugeot bb1 i Citroën ds5 pri- ORIS — Do you also head the Peugeot Design Lab and mjeri su dizajna jer donose novi oblik karoserije, novu funkciju. scooter design? ¶ gilles vidal — I run the Peugeot Design ds5 ima monovolumensku siluetu, ali je ona spuštena kako bi Lab, but not the scooters. Scooters are technically manufac- izgledao sportski. tured by another company in the south of France. For us it is oris — Peugeot rcz također je donio novu siluetu. ¶ gilles the same company that deals with mobility design. For now vidal — rcz je negdje između dizajna i stila. Ovdje inova- we cooperate only occasionally, but in the future we will coop- ciju možemo pronaći u doživljaju predmeta. rcz je klasičan erate much more. 2+2 coupé s inovativnom siluetom. Gledano u bokocrtu, luk ORIS — What is the difference between a car designer and a krova naglo se spušta i tako odvlači pažnju od velikoga, kom- car stylist? ¶ gilles vidal — That is a tricky question. These paktnoga volumena na kojemu leži. Tim pametnim trikom terms are perceived differently from language to language povećana je dinamika volumena i, kao posljedica, ukupna and from country to country. In France a stylist (styliste) is a

190 oris, broj 85, godina 2014 oris, number 85, year 2014 Gilles Vidal, Intervju Gilles Vidal, Interview 191 suvremenoj umjetnosti? Model Lancia Stratos 0 Marcella cars are style objects. A car is designed if it contains innovation Gandinija (Bertone) dizajnirana je u četirima dimenzijama – related to aesthetics. If you have a car that does not bring any dok stoji, izgleda kao da juri. bmw-i Chrisa Banglea iz proš- technical innovation, it is a style object, even though it can loga desetljeća djeluju inspiriranima futurističkim skulptu- visually be very fresh and imaginative. There is nothing wrong rama Umberta Boccionija... ¶ gilles vidal — Stil može biti with that. For me the universal definition would be that design inspiriran oblicima i plohama iz povijesti, a dizajn se inspirira is a reflection of function, innovation, and aesthetics on which idejama iz suvremene umjetnosti. Serija slika Damiena Hirsta creative artists, engineers and marketers work together. Style U vrtlogu – utjecaj svijeta na stvari bavi se centrifugalnom is just a new layer over something already known. silom. Krajnji je rezultat impresivan, prekrasan u smislu efekata ORIS — Since you do not design the body of the car nor the i boje, ali osnovna ideja nije rezultat, nego proces nastajanja technical elements, are you a designer or a stylist? ¶ gilles korištenjem fizikalnih sila. Počnete li od toga, možete doći do vidal — It depends on the project. For example, the interior vrlo zanimljivih rezultata u dizajnu automobila. Ne znam je li of is designed because we created a whole new

to naš pravi put, ali bi bilo zanimljivo napraviti istraživanje s ergonomics and geometry of the cockpit, even though there Peugeot Design:

Athanassios Tubidis, Damienom Hirstom kao polazišnom točkom i vidjeti kamo će are no technological innovations. We first decided to reorgan- Amko Leenarts; bb1, nas to odvesti. Nije Hirst jedini, možemo naći deset suvreme- ize the dashboard, put in a smaller steering wheel, and improve konceptni automobil, nih umjetnika i zapitati se kamo će nas odvesti. ergonomics; only after that did we start to think about style. 2009., proizvođač: psa Peugeot Citroën oris — Radite li takve stvari? ¶ gilles vidal — Povremeno Shapes, lines, and aesthetics emphasize technical changes, and

to radimo (ne govorim o Hirstu, nego o drugim suvremenim that is an act of design. If we had only formed nice lines and Peugeot Design: umjetnicima) i dolazimo do rezultata do kojih drugim putem new shapes, it would have been an instance of style. Athanassios Tubidis, Amko Leenarts; bb1, ne bismo mogli doći. Vrlo je zanimljivo pronaći put, procese, ORIS — Is it possible to design the exterior or are the limi- , 2009, vrlo analitičke ili intuitivne. Ponekad se samo instinktivnim tations of aerodynamics, safety, and homologation too big? manufacturer: psa bacanjem ideja također dođe do zanimljivih rezultata. Vrlo je ¶ gilles vidal — I think that designing the exterior would Peugeot Citroën zanimljivo tražiti nove načine promišljanja starih tema. Pone- mean creating a new silhouette. For example, Peugeot bb1 (pd) kad pronađete glupe, a ponekad pametne odgovore. Klijentima and Citroën ds5 are examples of design because they bring a Peugeot Design Laba na početku suradnje kažemo: Želimo vas new shape of the body, a new function. The ds5 has a upoznati, ali ne previše, jer ćemo vam na taj način ponuditi ono silhouette, but it is lowered to give a sport vibe. čega se sami ne možete sjetiti. Ako znamo previše o vama, ne ORIS — Peugeot rcz also has a new silhouette. ¶ gilles možemo raditi za vas, nismo više inovativni. Mark Twain rekao vidal — The rcz is somewhere in between design and style. je: Nisu znali da je nemoguće pa su to i napravili. In this case, innovation is expressed in the experience of the oris — Koje ćemo nove materijale vidjeti u autoindustriji? object. It is a classic 2+2 coupé with an innovative silhouette. ¶ gilles vidal — Ima ih jako puno. Onyx je u interijeru Looking laterally, the arch of the roof drops drastically and koristio reciklirane novine. Pripremamo koncept koji će u stilu diverts attention from the big, compact volume it is placed on. Onyxa uvesti puno inovacija. Razmišljamo o tome kako zamije- This smart trick enhanced volume dynamics and the general niti karbonska vlakna ekološkijim materijalom sličnih svojstava. appeal of the rcz. We could write a book about it. But then Eksperimentiramo s vlaknima od vulkanskoga kamenja. there is the question about what beauty actually is, which oris — Tko pronalazi nove materijale?¶ gilles makes it even more complicated. vidal — Dizajneri! Kad je riječ o konceptu, jednostavno je ORIS — Do car designers find inspiration in contempo- jer se radi o unikatu i nema ograničenja serijske proizvodnje. rary art? Lancia Stratos 0 Bertone by Marcello Gandini was Morat ćemo nuditi razne opcije We will have to offer various options Kad želimo uvesti novi materijal u serijsku proizvodnju, kom- designed in four dimensions – while it is not moving, it looks plicirano je. Razgovaramo o tome s inženjerima i dobavljačima as if it is in great speed; Chris Bangle’s bmw’s from the last za nekoliko generacija dok se ne for several generations until we kako bismo zajedno izgradili industrijski proces. century look as if they’ve been inspired by the futuristic prebacimo na nešto zaista novo move onto something entirely new oris — Gdje pronalazite nove ideje i informacije? ¶ gilles sculptures of Umberto Boccioni... ¶ gilles vidal — Style vidal — Istražujemo na internetu i odlazimo na sajmove can be inspired by shapes and surfaces from history, while kao što su milanski sajam namještaja Salone Internazionale design is inspired by ideas from contemporary art. Spin Paint- atraktivnost rcz-a. O tome bi se mogla napisati knjiga. Zatim specialist in industrial aesthetics, which is similar or identical del Mobile, pariški sajam aviona Le Bourget, sajam tuninga u ings by Damien Hirst deal with the centrifugal force. The end sijedi pitanje o ljepoti, što je još kompliciranije. to a designer. Design is not only about aesthetics – design is Las Vegasu sema, razni visoko specijalizirani sajmovi novih result is impressive, with beautiful colours and effects, but oris — Pronalaze li dizajneri automobila inspiraciju u creating a good object. Some cars are designer objects, other materijala... the basic idea is not the result but the process of creating by

192 oris, broj 85, godina 2014 oris, number 85, year 2014 Gilles Vidal, Intervju Gilles Vidal, Interview 193 ORIS — What new materials will we see in the automobile rcz, serijski industry? ¶ gilles vidal — There are many of them. Onyx automobil, 2010. used recycled newspaper for its interior. We are preparing a rcz, mass concept that will introduce plenty of innovation, similar to production, 2010

Onyx. We are thinking about switching from carbon fibres to (pd) an eco-friendly material of similar features. We are experi- menting with volcanic rock fibres. ORIS — Who finds new materials? ¶ gilles vidal — Design- ers! For concepts it is simple because they are unique and not limited by serial production. When we want to introduce a new material into serial production, then it gets complicated. We discuss it with engineers and suppliers to build the industrial process together. ORIS — Where do you find new ideas and information? ¶ gilles vidal — We surf the Internet, go to fairs – the u kojima bi elementi nastali 3D-printanjem cijenom bili pristu- Milan furniture fair Salone del Mobile, the sema tuning fair in Las pačni, iako skupi. S vremenom će tehnologija postati jeftinija i Vegas, various highly specialized fairs offering new materials… brža pa ćemo moći širiti i njezinu primjenu. Prvi automobil s led ORIS — The idea for the rcz originated during sema. svjetlima bio je Audi R8 2007. Visoku cijenu led dioda mogao ¶ gilles vidal — I was not with Peugeot at the time, but a je opravdati samo skup automobil, a i jedino je taj automobil team of Peugeot’s designers saw a pick-up at sema that was bio djelo inženjera koji su to mogli kvalitetno realizirati. Danas shorter, with a cabin moved to the front, and it inspired them led svjetla imaju svi. Model 308 ima ih u standardnoj opremi. to change the proportions of the coupé. All coupés have a Peugeot Design: oris — Danas su pozicijska led svjetla dio identiteta brenda. cabin moved to the back. The idea of the rcz was to create a Sandeep Bhambra, Julien Cueff; Onyx, S obzirom na to da postoji manji broj mogućih pozicija od new silhouette by placing the cabin in the middle and adding a konceptni automobil, broja brendova, je li ta činjenica problematična? Tako su trunk, which is normally small in 2+2 coupés. The first identity 2012., proizvođač: psa Peugeot Citroën led svjetla na modelu 208 postavljena kao kod Mercedesa. was purely aesthetic, but it also became practical. I once drove

Peugeot Design: oris — Ideja za Peugeot rcz nastala je na sema-i. ¶ gilles using forces of physics. If you start from that, you can get very ¶ gilles vidal — Jako dobro pitanje. Peugeot je jedini brend an rcz carrying two bicycles and full equipment for 500 km Boris Reinmöller; rcz, vidal — Tada nisam bio u Peugeotu, ali je tim dizajnera Peu- interesting results in car design. I do not know if that is the čija svjetla podsjećaju na jedno oko s obrvom. Nama je jasno from Paris, which is fantastic for that type of car. Peugeot Design: serijski automobil, Sandeep Bhambra, 2010., proizvođač: psa geota na sema-i uočio skraćeni pick-up s kabinom pomaknu- right path for us, but it would be interesting to do research što moramo napraviti. Ako nešto podsjeća na drugi brend, to ORIS — After a hundred years of automobile design, have we Julien Cueff; Onyx, Peugeot Citroën tom naprijed, što ih je motiviralo na promjenu proporcija cou- with Damien Hirst as the starting point and see where it takes je njihov problem. Danju se ionako vidi maska automobila po already seen everything or is it possible to create real innova- concept automobile, 2012, manufacturer:

péa. Svi coupéi imaju kabinu pomaknutu unatrag. Ideja rcz-a us. Hirst is not the only one; we can find a dozen contemporary kojoj se brendovi prepoznaju, a noću glavna svjetla daju iden- tion? ¶ gilles vidal — I think it is possible. You can even psa Peugeot Citroën

Peugeot Design: Boris Reinmöller; rcz, mass bila je stvoriti novu siluetu postavljanjem kabine u središte i artists and wonder where that would take us. titet. Istina je da će, kad svi budu imali led svjetla, mnogi sličiti create something revolutionary. We based the bb1 on new (pd) production, 2010, dodati prtljažni prostor, koji je u 2+2 coupéima malen. Prvi ORIS — Do you do things like that? ¶ gilles vidal — We manufacturer: psa identitet bio je čisto estetski, ali je postao i praktičan. Jednom do it occasionally; I am not talking about Hirst, but about other Peugeot Citroën sam se rcz-om s dva bicikla i punom opremom odvezao 500 contemporary artists, and we achieve results that we would not (pd) km od Pariza, što je fantastično za takav tip automobila. have achieved any other way. It is very interesting to find paths, oris — Je li nakon stotinu godina dizajna automobila sve već to search for analytical and intuitive processes. Sometimes you viđeno ili je uvijek moguće napraviti pravu inovaciju? ¶ gilles just instinctively express ideas and also come to interesting vidal — Mislim da jest. Možete čak stvoriti i revoluciju. Kon- results. It is fascinating to find new ways of pondering upon old cept bb1 bazirali smo na novoj tehnologiji i tako stvorili novu topics. Sometimes you come across stupid answers, sometimes siluetu, ali to nije mala revolucija. Kad se serijski automobili you come across smart ones. At the beginning of cooperation počnu proizvoditi 3D-printerima i stereolitografijom, sloboda with the clients of the Peugeot Design Lab, we tell them that oblika bit će beskonačna. Trenutačno je za sve potrebno raditi we want to get to know them, but not too much, because that kalupe pa su ograničenja velika. way we are able to offer them something they would not think oris — Koliko 3D-printanje i ostale nove proizvođačke of on their own. If we know too much about them, we cannot tehnologije smanjuju serije uz istu isplativost? ¶ gilles work for them, we are no longer innovative. Mark Twain once vidal — Trebali bismo započeti s posebnim serijama modela, said: They did not know it was impossible so they did it.

194 oris, broj 85, godina 2014 oris, number 85, year 2014 Gilles Vidal, Intervju Gilles Vidal, Interview 195 Stil može biti inspiriran oblicima i technology and created a new silhouette, but it is not even a small revolution. Once serial vehicles are manufactured using plohama iz povijesti, a dizajn 3D printers and stereolithography, the freedom of shape will se inspirira idejama iz be endless. Now we have to create a mould for everything, and there are great limitations. suvremene umjetnosti ORIS — How much can 3D printing and other new tech- nologies reduce the series while maintaining profitability? ¶ gilles vidal — We would have to start with special series Style can be inspired by shapes and where elements that were created by 3D printing would be surfaces from history, while design affordable, but still expensive. In time, technology will become cheaper and faster, so we will be able to expand its use. The is inspired by ideas from first car with all led lights was the Audi R8 in 2007. The high contemporary art cost of led diodes could work only with an expensive car, and it was the only car that was done by good engineers who could make it possible. Every car has led lights today. The 308 even has them as part of standard equipment. ORIS — Today parking led lights are part of the brand’s iden- tity. Is that a problem considering the fact that there are less possible types of lights than there are brands? led lights on the 208 are positioned the same way they are in Mercedes jedni drugima. Zakon dodatno suzuje mogućnost pozicija. Cilj cars. ¶ gilles vidal — That is a very good question. Peugeot i ponos svakoga brenda jest biti različit i za to će se naći način. is the only brand whose lights remind us of an eye with an oris — Tržište je automobila konzervativno. Jesu li kupci naj- eyebrow. If something reminds someone of another brand, veća prepreka revoluciji dizajna? ¶ gilles vidal — Prepreka it is their problem. During the day you see the front bumper, je nekoliko. Prva je sam brend. Koliko se daleko usudimo ići? which brands are recognized by, and at night the head lights Bojimo li se da ćemo uplašiti kupce? Tvrtka je prvi filter. give identity to the car. It is true that many cars will look alike oris — Vi ste francuska tvrtka – pomičete granice dizajna once everyone has led lights. The law additionally limits dif- automobila. ¶ gilles vidal — Istina! Ipak, kupnja automo- ferences in parking lights. The aim and pride of each brand is bila nakon kupnje kuće najveća je životna kupnja. Kupci pri to be different, so there will be a way. kupnji razmišljaju: Jednom ćemo ga prodavati pa moramo ORIS — The automobile market is conservative. Are buyers kupiti nešto konzervativno. Automobil je i izraz vaše osob- the biggest obstacle to the revolution of design? ¶ gilles nosti. Kupnjom ekscentrična automobila poručujete kako ste vidal — There are several obstacles. The first is the brand i vi ekscentrični. Velik broj ljudi ne želi biti ekscentričan. To su itself. How far do we dare to go? Are we afraid that we might stvari koje marketing zna i sugerira. Cilj proizvodnje prodaja je scare the buyers off? The company is the first filter. proizvoda. Loše je ako se automobil ne prodaje. Treba pronaći ORIS — You are a French company, so you push the limits of zdravu ravnotežu. Stvoriti automobil koji možda nije onoliko car design. ¶ gilles vidal — That is true! However, buying a inovativan koliko bi mogao biti. Ali mi smo Francuzi i moramo car is the biggest life purchase after buying a house. When they pomicati granice! buy, people think about selling the car one day so they want to buy something conservative. A car is also an expression of your personality. By buying an eccentric car, you express your eccentricity. There are a lot of people who do not want to be perceived as eccentric. Those are things that marketing depart- ments are aware of and the things they suggest. The aim of producing is to sell a product. It is bad if the car does not sell. You need to find a healthy balance, create a car that might not be as innovative as it could be, but we are French and we have to push limits!

196 oris, broj 85, godina 2014 oris, number 85, year 2014 Gilles Vidal, Intervju Gilles Vidal, Interview 197