Video Transcript: Brave Not Perfect

BRAVE NOT PERFECT A CONVERSATION WITH RESHMA SAUJANI, FOUNDER & CEO-GIRLS WHO CODE, AND PAUL DAUGHERTY, CHIEF TECHNOLOGY & INNOVATION OFFICER, ACCENTURE

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Paul: This is really exciting to me. 13,000 alumni now, 20 of them who Happy that the rest of you can join in a work at Accenture; we're getting more conversation that I'm really excited to and more. And a fantastic organization have with Reshma who really is a hero that is really making a real impact on of...a friend, a hero of mine, and closing the gender gap which is what somebody who really inspires me. And you started, so that's fantastic, real for those of you don't know a lot about amazing impact. We're going to talk a Reshma you'll see why as we talk more bit more about that. Reshma also wrote during this discussion. a number of books; she wrote a book called, the first book was "Girls Who Reshma: I feel the same way about Code: Learn to Code and Change the you, Paul. World.” Also, "Women Who Don't Wait in Line" and now, "Brave not Perfect" Paul: OK, we'll wrap up there, thank which is what we'll spend more time you! We're here at International talking about today. So, first question, Women's Day, all about getting to let's start with "Brave not Perfect" and equal, equality equals innovation, a lot we'll get into Girls who Code and some of themes we are talking about today so other things, and you know this started getting into your views on some of that with a TED talk that you did. Four as we go. I want to say a little bit about million views I think, probably more what you've done though and then we'll than that now… four million when I talk more about it as you go. checked a while ago, that got into this brave not perfect idea. Can you talk So Reshma is the founder of Girls Who about the book a little bit; why you Code, an amazing organization, I have wrote it; what the real message is? to look at the numbers to make sure that I get them right. 185,000 girls served through the all the programs.

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Reshma: Yes, so I do this TED talk and Women are twice as likely to be it just hits a nerve. And the thesis of the depressed than men. And secondly, talk in many ways was that, you know, we're waiting to be perfect to lead and from a young age we raise our boys to it's why you see this leadership gap in like crawl to the top of the monkey bars Silicon Valley, on Main Street, you and just like jump. And with our girls know, on Wall Street, everywhere you we're like, "Careful honey, don't swing look, right, we are not realizing our too high.” You know, "Oh Sweetie, your fullest potential. dress is dirty, let me go to the diaper bag and clean you up. Did you take that Paul: You talk about a new model for toy away from somebody? Give it raising girls, to teach them to be brave back." So, we are constantly protecting not perfect, can you get a little bit into, and coddling our girls… we're literally you know, what you talk about in the wrapping them up with bubble wrap. book? And then the older they get, they get addicted to perfection and they start Reshma: Like, throw out your giving up before they even try. So, parenting books, seriously, throw out studies will show that when women your parenting books… because in declare a major in college, if they get a many ways what we've done is we B instead of an A in the introductory thought we had to raise our girls be level course, they drop out. Whereas confident. So, if we put them into boys are like “I got a B? That’s soccer and they didn't do well, we amazing!” [LAUGH] And so then pulled them out and we put them into perfectionism is like… it’s doing two dance or swimming. And in helping things – one, it’s making us unhappy. them "quote" become confident, we killed their resilience. They didn't know what it's like to just be mediocre, to just get a B, to struggle with challenge.

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And this has really hurt them when they And so, and I tell this story my TED talk get into the workforce and later in life. which is like, you know, when girls Carol Dweck has amazing line that, you come to us, most of them have never know, if life were one long grade learned how to code before. But they're school, girls would rule the world. But probably coming in with some it's not. And in the real world, it's assumptions about what it means to be bravery that matters. a coder: you got to be super smart, you know, you got to be mathematically or Paul: Some of the things that caught scientifically inclined. And so, every me when I read the book, you have teacher started telling me the same these myths you talk about, and you story which is that when girls were first have a, one of the myths is: perfection learning how to code, they'd call the is excellence. Another is failure is not teacher over and they'd say I don't an option, you know, some of the myths know what code to write. And the you talk about that shape the teacher would look at her screen and experience we have as we raise our she'd see a blank text editor. So daughters. I was interested in another [COUGH] she didn't know any better, connection you made where you've she thought, well this student just spent also said coding teaches you failure, 20 minutes just staring at the screen. you make the connection to Girls Who But when the teacher presses undo a Code in this. What connection do you few times, she saw that her student see there between the work you've actually wrote code but then deleted it. done at Girls Who Code and Brave not So instead of saying hey I tried this, it's Perfect? not working, can you show me? Nothing at all. So, it's this idea of Reshma: I mean, it's really, I think it's perfection or bust. like in teaching girls to code is really where I saw this.

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Paul: There's a story that, I'll just tell it Right and then being able to create, real quickly, when I attended the innovate and then taking that and say summer immersion program graduation well there's other things I think that I for one of our programs in Chicago- the can't do, let me try that again, let me try parents are there with the kids when that like that again, let me try that like they graduate from these summer that again. immersion programs- a mother came over to me almost in tears just talking Paul: Yeah, yeah, well, another about the effect that the program had in question, getting into something that her daughter. Her daughter was very was in the news this week. shy, had an older brother who was a gamer, who kind of bullied her a bit Reshma: Yes. about how, you know, she wasn't smart And some of you follow Reshma's blog et cetera. And when her brother, older earlier this week. brother, saw that she could code, it transformed their relationship, gave her Reshma: My Twitter fight. confidence, and just talk about the [APPLAUSE] dynamics, the whole family dynamics have improved because the confidence Paul: Talk about brave not perfect, talk the girl got. So that's just the, so that about brave, I think you're pretty emotion. perfect. Reshma: Because you, it's about doing Reshma: Very brave. something that you think you can't do.

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Paul: So, talk a little bit about that. One And the impact on this is that most girls of the- where is it- in the blog you wrote, think that a programmer is like a dude these omissions are not just an in a hoodie sitting in a basement oversight- and this is the omission of somewhere drinking a Red Bull, right, Girls who Code from the 60 Minutes and they just don't think that there are segment on closing the gender gap, any women as part of them. So, it which is kind of, you know, mind matters what you see on television; it boggling. These omissions aren't just matters that the stories that we tell. an oversight, they're negligent, they're Watch the segment; we're not in it; and sexist, they have consequences for [UNKNOWN] 's not in it; Black Girls efforts to close the gender gap in tech Code's not in it… like the list goes on and they're part of a long history of and on. They use our words and our erasing the contributions of women in terms but do not cite us, so I'm baffled technology. That's a pretty powerful because I'm like this is 2019, how did statement and unpack that a little bit; this... how did can you think that that's talk about that. OK? And so, I write a powerful medium post- it goes viral, women, men, Reshma: You know, we know that the everybody is mad. foundational folks that were in computer science were women. The world's first And so, I also am like, you know, programmer was Ada Lovelace. Right, because sometimes I'm like, "Am I Katherine Johnson is pretty much the crazy- maybe I'm crazy" and like I'm reason why we had a man on the going to write this post and people are moon. And these women were all going to be like, "Yeah, no, that's totally erased from their contributions even normal to do that", but I was like oh no, when they were happening until I'm not crazy. Right? I am not crazy; recently and now we've started talking this is wrong, and it’s part of again a about them. larger systematic problem that we’re erasing our contributions out of history. Accenture, its logo, and High Performance Delivered are trademarks of Accenture. Copyright © 2019 Accenture. All rights reserved. BRAVE NOT PERFECT

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And the bigger thing that made me We share information together because realize because this has been, I'm the point of this is, and this is the more going to say this, and you heard it here, important point, it's dangerous to say is that, you know, for a while we have that there are not enough of us. It's been fighting to get into the boys' club. dangerous to say we'll just teach them at 3rd grade and it will be OK. Because We have been fighting to justify why we we know, I got 13,000 Girls Who Code should be in the boys' club but now alumni that are on college campuses they're trying to be president of our right now majoring in computer club. [LAUGH] Like the patriarchy can science. And every day I get an e-mail only go so far but this is crazy, right? from one of them - 4.0 at MIT, 4.0 at This is like crazy. [APPLAUSE] And so Stanford, Miss Saujani, I just applied to like, anyway, so that is another thing said company and I didn't get an that I'm just calling it out here that like interview. Can you help me? So, to say we need to start watching out for that these companies are not broken, because it's coming. And I saw it by this that there isn't sexism and racism that segment because, again, I have to feel we need to root out, is just false. So, like they know better. we can't keep pretending that we can't find them or we're never solving this Paul: Maybe talk a little bit more about problem. And so, it's dangerous to talk the reaction and what did what can we about it this way, and we have done so do to get ahead of that? much work at Girls Who Code, we’ve Reshma: It was beautiful. Listen, talk done work together - we have another about sisterhood. Every single woman report coming out together which is from all of us organizations, we came again going to say, look, access alone together. We wrote op-eds together. is not enough.

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It is not enough just to provide a Diversity, inclusion is good, I view computer science class. And, you know, diversity included as an enabler, but we see this happening... Lucy is doing equality is the outcome that we're trying computer science class at college, to get to, in the way we create the right? culture. Part of the conviction we have around that is that that's how you get it, Paul: Yeah, yeah, my daughter. you know, it's the right thing to do, but that's how you get innovation is by Reshma: But, you know, talk to any through it an environment, a culture of woman that's going through a C.S. equality that you build a company. So, degree on college campuses and they'll its mind boggling that companies aren't tell you about their experience. It's picking up the girls you have. But the broken, you know, it's broken, and it other connection to this is Girls Who needs to be fixed and we have to talk Code was just named by Fast about it. Company, the number one most Paul: Yep, no, I agree, and I think uh, innovative nonprofit in the world... thanks for all you’re doing on that, and I [APPLAUSE] the number one most think the interest... innovative nonprofit in the world. So, talk, maybe talk about that, and the Reshma: We're doing on that, we're bridge to, you know, equality, doing on that. innovation and, why do you think you were you recognized that way and Paul: We're doing that. Let's kind of talk have that innovation. about why this is, why this is important to organizations, so our theme here is equality equals innovation.

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Reshma: You just have to have diverse Paul: Yeah, it all comes back to people and thinkers around the table to bravery, and I think that's such a great come up with the most diverse word you chose. I'm going to read a solutions. As I've been writing and paragraph that literally gave me the talking about bravery I have realized chills when I read it in your book, so I'll that I sometimes worry that I was much just read this for you what real quickly. braver at 20 than at 40...that the older I So, listen to this: most of all bravery became, the more established I sets us free. It gives us the power to became, the more awards that I won, claim our voice and to leave behind the harder it was- we had much more what makes us unhappy and go for on the line. And it's the same thing as what sparks in our souls. It allows us to Girls Who Code, like, we're often like, see that our gloriously messy, flawed, oof, like can we do that now? And so, I real selves are, in fact, the true push the organization and my team definition of perfection. I think that's just pushes the organization to make sure amazing, just gives me the chance to that we're still kind of scrappy Girls Who read it again, [APPLAUSE] and you Code, right? I push myself to make know, to connect to that, that's the call sure... for bravery and how it empowers us, and you've been calling for a bravery Paul: I can attest to just the fact you're revolution. What does that mean and scrappy based on [INAUDIBLE]. how do we do that? Reshma: And so, it's harder to take Reshma; You know, I feel like we are those risks and I think that, but at the seeing bravery on the biggest stage: same time when you don't do that, it's six women running for president, like you are literally like, you're not as powerful men taken down by "Me Too", happy. but I want every day bravery.

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Most of us some point this week been And you know we live in New York City, walking down the street, someone we're all like drinking our green juice bumped into you and you said, "I'm and, you know, not eating gluten, and sorry." And then you went to your desk like, you know, not eating our dairy, and you're pissed off at yourself about we're constantly obsessed with our it, right, and you let it sit there, sit, sit, bodies- we are, right? But we need to sit. Probably a friend this week asked think about our minds. What are we you to babysit their cat, you didn't have doing to activate our minds and to work time, but didn't want to say no, so you on ourselves? Our minds, beyond said yes. Maybe like me, like I, after I meditation, and I think brave not perfect had my son, Sean, I could not lose the is a practice. It is a practice that I lay baby weight. And I knew that the best out of things you can do to start time to go to the gym was at 7:30 but rewiring yourself for bravery and that's when my dog, Stanley, wanted to unlearning imperfection. go out, and my baby was waking up. And it was the worst time for my family, Paul: Can you talk a little bit more but the best time for me. I didn't have about that? You talk about bravery the courage to do something for myself. challenges and that's what's really And so, I'm calling for that kind of impactful, and why the book is fantastic bravery, right, the bravery to do the because it's ways to do it; it's not just things that you want to do for you. The saying go do it. Can you talk a little bit bravery to not silence yourself, right, more about that? when something happens in your home or your workplace, the bravery to really Reshma: So, the first thing is you find your truth and find your joy. cannot be brave if you're tired, you cannot be brave if you are tired. We need to sleep. We need to go for a walk.

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We need to rest. We need to stop Paul: Dancing... putting off those doctor's appointments that we put off- all of us put off- Reshma: Dancing, you know, it's true! because we think it's too selfish. Like, You're not good at it but you enjoy it, we have to take care of ourselves right. We don't have things like that. because that's the only way are we Most you all won't even go to a Soul going to be brave. Cycle class till you're in shape… like the point of going to a fitness class is to Second thing is like I have, you know, I get in shape, right? So, here's the think you need to practice imperfection. thing, like, if you don't know how to do So, I want everybody in this room to anything unless it is perfect how can send an email with a typo in it, yes you take risks in your career and in [LAUGH]. No emojis, no exclamation your life? You need to feel what it's like point, just say what you want to say, to feel mediocre. You know, there is just say what you want to say. And something about, right, like if you have here's the thing, nothing's going to been kind of going through your life happen, because we go very quickly with a B plus, with a B or a C, you from, I made a typo to I'm stupid, I'm know, when you get into the workplace dumb, I'm going to get fired, all in about and someone offers you a chance to do 20 seconds, right. And it's not going to something you don't know how to do, happen. And so, practice imperfection. you're like, sure, I'll do it. And we see that happen all the time with our male The other thing, I feel like you'll colleagues, we see that happen all the appreciate this, is this idea of, like, time. doing something you suck at. Every man I know does something he sucks at: golf, tennis, basketball, fantasy football…

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Paul: Yep, absolutely, so you kind of Secondly is like I really believe in like, look at the whole trajectory here: Brave you know, there's so much, there's so not Perfect, Girls Who Code, you much, these structures that have been started as a lawyer and an investment built- racism, sexism, patriarchy- banker, you come a long way from, you they've gotten us here, right, they've know, investment banking…where does gotten us to this place where we it go next? Clearly, you have a question every little thing that we do following- the people- you're a role and we let that voice in our head get so model to so many. The messages - the loud. And we're in this moment too gender gap is something you're making where I, as a woman, feel so powerful, a big impact on. Maybe, just, where do don't you? I feel so powerful - like there you see this all going? is an opportunity for me to take my own power into my own hands. And so, this Reshma: Oh god, I don't know, I will moment for us to really look within, and say this: I'm living my best life, like this to think about how we can work on week was like, I'm living my best life. ourselves and change this, you know, Because I'm telling my truth, and I'm change the way that we've been fighting for my organization, I'm fighting socialized, you know to take in our for my girls, right. And I feel blessed power back... I think is really amazing that as an organization we got to the and to also, you know, so many of the place where it actually matters what we women's books that have come before, think and what we say. it's like how to get a promotion... like don't read this book to get a promotion. Read this book because you want to find joy.

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You know, so many of us have things And had I never tried I wouldn't be able that we want to do, dreams that we to sit there with her. I wouldn't be able had- whether to start a business or to watch CNN, but I don't have any maybe to not have that second child- regrets because I least I tried. and we just we didn't do them. Or we let someone talk ourselves out of it... and Paul: And again, back to the bravery we let our ideas die on the vine, and point, it's...you just think about the then we see other people doing the potential that you unleash just by a very thing that we told ourselves we different mindset and thinking, it's cannot do. And we are left with so much unbelievable, individually, collectively, regret and envy, and it eats us up you know, for organizations as well. inside. So, if each of us go to that Maybe for those in the room here, place, go to the place where you feel they're all going to read your book - the most regret and envy, that's where they all have it, so they're all going to you need to live...that's where you need read it. Those watching as well, you to be, and I say this in my full truth. know, if you're thinking about people at companies like Accenture, or other Look, I ran for office twice. I lost twice. I companies listening, you know...what's had this awesome opportunity to invite your advice to women? my friend, AOC, Alexandria Ocasio, to come and meet our girls. And it was so Reshma: Yeah. joyful to be there with her because even though it didn't work out for me - I did Paul: …give to women, and then that 10 years ago and it didn't work out what's the advice for the rest of us? for me - at least I tried. And it was so Reshma: I think my [LAUGH] obviously joyful to be there with her because even my advice to women is to live your life though it didn't work out for me- I did brave not perfect. that 10 years ago and it didn't work out for me. At least I tried. Accenture, its logo, and High Performance Delivered are trademarks of Accenture. Copyright © 2019 Accenture. All rights reserved. BRAVE NOT PERFECT

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Try to exercise courage and bravery, And I went spoke to the Women in you know, in your personal space and Computing group and in this room are in your professional space. And push these three dudes in the back, and I'm yourself to do it, really think about it, like who are you. And they're like we're and go there. the men who support the Women in Computing group - they have formed a Like I fall on and off the bravery wagon club. And their job was to support but I'm reflective on my choices and my women and to be the ones to speak up decisions and sometimes we don't like when microaggressions are made to go in because we don't like what because, you know what, I'm tired. I'm we're going to see. Go in. And I think for tired of fighting and I'm sure all of you the others, i.e.; the men in the room, are tired of fighting too. But so many of you know my friend, Tarana Burke, our wonderful, incredible men in our made this point about, you know, after lives may be in a place where "Me Too" you realize how something is said that makes them feel courageous...that courage was uncomfortable too, and then they go contagious. That one woman after one home, and they complain to us about it woman after one woman touch each but they don’t say anything. other, but the question is: Can courage be contagious for men? And so maybe, I realized, you don’t have the words, and so how do we in One of the best things that happened organizations actually make courage last year was I went and spoke at the contagious for men too? And have you Rochester Institute of Technology. Now be part of this because I also believe RIT had gone from 18 percent women that it’s never been a better time to be a in their C.S. department to like 30 woman because I have never seen so percent in like 3 years alone. many incredible men who are in solidarity with us, who want the same world that we want too. Accenture, its logo, and High Performance Delivered are trademarks of Accenture. Copyright © 2019 Accenture. All rights reserved. BRAVE NOT PERFECT

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We’ve never had this before. Like, I Paul: That's amazing- well, so, we got love this man and I don't say this to wrap up there, so for everybody in because we're just standing here right the room, everybody listening, support now, but I love Paul. And Paul is as Girls Who Code. Buy "Brave not genuine as - he chased me, because Perfect", go out and buy it now, and be he saw what was happening with Lucy, brave not perfect- and big round of right, in high school and said, "You applause for Reshma. know I care about this issue" and he made mountains move here at Reshma: Thank you, thank you guys Accenture. And he supports my [APPLAUSE] thank you. leadership all the time. And you know he is a sister, he is in sisterhood with me. I consider him part of my sisterhood [LAUGH] I do, I do, I consider him part of my sisterhood [LAUGH]. [APPLAUSE] It's true, it's true. And you're special but you're not so special, in that what I mean is that there are other "Paul Daugherty’s” at Accenture and in every single organization and I think that they got to get on board. You got to a look at him, and you got to a role model him, and get on board and ask yourself: what am I doing every day for gender equity - what am I doing every day to stand in solidarity with my sisters and to lift them up?