1852 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 24 1320. Also, petition of the public library of Evansville, Ind., thank Thee that the fountain of life is very near all be­ concerning the Larrabee bill (H. R. 3517) ; to the Committee lievers. He will fill us with vitality and cleanse us from all on Education. sin. Blessed Lord, persuade us to seek Him. Though the 1321. By Mr. LEAVY: Petition of the Senate of the State path at times may be rough and steep, checkered with t.oil of Washington, introduced by Senator Roberts and adopted and care, Thou wilt quicken the spirit with soft and silent February 16, 1939, directing the attention of Congress to the refreshment; Thou wilt bless and inspire with conscious vulnerability of the State and the north Pacific coast to at­ power. 0 Father, wonderfully fix the limits of human frailty. tack and, in fitting recognition of the observance of Na­ May we pass today in sound reasonableness, assured peace, tional Defense Week, urging the Federal Government to so and in the quietness of hope, which is our strength and bul­ increase defenses in this region as to render impossible the wark. May the Great Teacher be present, who is the power invasion and occupation of any portion of this strategic area of God and the wisdom of God. In His holy and eternal by a foreign power; to the Committee on Military Affairs. name. Amen. 1322. By Mr. MUNDT: Petition of the South Dakota Sen­ The Journal of the proceedings of yesterday was read and ate, known as Concurrent Resolution No. 10, petitioning Con­ approved. gress to enact legislation correcting certain objectionable features of the present method of surplus food commodity MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE distribution and which will permit distribution of said com­ A message from the Senate, by Mr. Frazier, its legislative modities to persons found eligible and in need through the clerk, announced that the Senate had passed, with an regular commercial channels of trade by the issuance of amendment, in which the concurrence of the House is re­ purchase orders upon merchants ·and business establishments quested, .a bill of the House of the !.allowing title: now operating in South Dakota; to the Committee on Ways H. R. 4011. An act to continue the functions of the Com­ and Means. modity Credit Corporation and the Export-Import Bank of 1323. Also, petition of the South Dakota Senate, known as Washington, and for other purposes. Concurrent Resolution No. 9, petitioning the Postmaster EXTENSION OF REMARKS General at Washington, D. C., to bring about the issuance of Mr. MANSFIElD. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent a stamp commemorating the fiftieth anniversary of state­ to extend my own remarks in the 'RECORD and to include hood in South Dakota; to the Committee on the Post Office therein recent quotations from engineering reports and other and Post Roads. documents. 132( By Mr. MURDOCK of Utah: Joint memorial of the The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the request of the Legislature of the State· of Utah on the proposed supplement gentleman from Texas? to Cuban trade agreement; to the Committee on Ways and There was no objection. Means. Mr. LELAND M. FORD. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous 1325. By Mr. PLUMLEY: Petition of eight citizens of consent to extend my own remarks in the RECORD and to in­ Poultney, Vt., and vicinity, favoring enactment of the im­ clude therein a letter from Dr. Nylander, of the National proved General Welfare Act : have no con­ the different communities the situation? Here is one with trol except there is a limitation that there shall be consoli­ village service and here is another equally qualified that is datior.s only when there are vacancies. There can be no unable to secure village service. 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 1855 Mr. LUDLOW. I think the feeling is that village service tleman may be able to obtai.n sonie expression on this matter has been pretty well developed. I have lived in villages a from the postal authorities. part of my life. The average citizen likes to go two or three Mr. LUDLOW. I may say to the gentleman I hope he will squares to the post office to get his mail. It is not a service not offer such an amendment to this bill, because it lS a of primary importance and for . a time at least, with a very matter we should not dispose of in a haphazard and offhand extensive service of this kind already in existence, we thought way. We have not given it the slightest consideration. We it might be the part of prudence not to extend it any further. would want to know all the factors involved. We would want Therefore this bill carries no appropriation for additional to know the practicability of it from an administrative stand­ service. I appreciate the zeal and the ability with which the point. I do assure the gentleman, however, that at the next distinguished gentleman from Georgia looks after the inter­ hearing I expect to continue to be the chairman of the sub­ ests of his constituents and we are glad to have his thought committee, and if the gentleman will btln,g the matter up at about this matter. _ that time we will go into it exhaustively and try to develop Mr. PACE. The gentleman understands that under the the prospects along the line of the gentleman's suggestion. present policy a city of 9,000 is not permitted to have village Mr. HARE. I thank the gentleman. · service, and some people are many blocks from the post office. Mr. O'CONNOR. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield Mr.-LUDLOW. I think a city of 9,000, if it has $10,000 in for a question? postal receipts, has a right to city delivery. Mr. LUDLOW. I yield to the gentleman from Montana. Mr. PACE. I meant to say a city with revenue of $9,000 Mr. O'CONNOR. Will the gentleman please refer to page is not permitted to have village service. 51 of the bill, upder the heading of construction of new post­ Mr. LUDLOW. That is right. office buildings? Mr. PACE. But there seems to be no Uniformity. Mr. LUDLOW. I wonder if the gentleman would allow me Mr. LuDLOW. I may ask the gentleman if he knows of to proceed at this time. I go into the matter to which ·the any situation where any great inconvenience, injustice, or gentleman refers later in my remarks. If the gentleman will harm is being done as a result of the nonestablishment of ask his question then it will enable me to make a consecutive village delivery service? We did not hear of any. statement. Mr. PACE. All I can say in reply to the gentleman is that Mr. O'CONNOR. Surely. the people are demanding the service and they are unable to Mr. LUDLOW. Now we come· to a matter that I believe will understand the fact that one community has it and another ·be of much interest to the House. has riot, when they are both equally qualified. THE ANTI-VENEREAL CAMPAIGN Mr. HARE. Will the gentleman yield? · We have added $2,000,000 to the Budget estimate ot Mr. LUDLOW. · I yield to the gentleman from South Caro­ $3,000,000 for control of venereal diseases, to be expended lina. during the fiscal year 1940, making the total appropriation Mr. HARE. I know the gentleman has given a good deal $5,000,000, which is the full amount authorized by the of study to this question. I would like to know his reaction La Follette-Bulwinkle Act. Viewed in all of its beruings and to the situation of furnishing rural delivery service on holi­ implications this was the most interesting and perhaps the days by substitute carriers. I understand it is the practice most important subject with which we had to deal. The in towns, villages, and cities for the post office on holidays, La Follette-Bulwinkle Act authorized an expenditure of except Sundays, to usually make one delivery. I am wonder­ $3,000,000 during the first year of its operation, $5,000,000 the ing what the gentleman's opinion would be about providing second year, and $7,000,000 the third year, with future a rural delivery service for holidays, except Sunqays, by · expenditures in the war against this dreaded scourge to be ·substitute carriers. governed as Congress may see fit in the light of results Our rural facilities are rapidly increasing. We have rural obtained and information acquired during the 2-year period. electtification. We are obtaining better highways and we are ·we found that, under the stimulus of the appropriation for obtaining better schools. People who live in the country dis­ the current year, health activities have sprung into action tricts are taking the daily papers more often and to a larger on a widespread scale and have taken up the fight against extent now than before. It seems to be a strange coincidence venereal diseases with a zeal and determination worthy of that nearly all these holidays come on either a Saturday or all encouragement. We found that most of the States, in­ Monday, and in this event they have 3 days without any mail correctly construing an authorization as an appropriation, delivery. I am wondering whether or not the Government have assumed that they will receive their respective shares could not well afford to accommOdate these 30,000,000 people of the full amount of $5,000,000 next year and have already by increasing the appropriation a million and a· half or two initiated programs or expanded existing programs to cover million dollars for the purpose of having substitute carriers the entire amount. While Congress, of course, cannot be provide a mail service on holidays, except Sundays. held responsible for anybody's premature and incorrect con­ Mr. LUDLoW. I may say to the gentleman I am sure our clusions, there was a definite prospect that unless the full subcommittee Is sympathetic with anything that would im­ authorization is appropriated for next year many States will prove the service to our rural people. We have certainly become lukewarm and the antivenereal campaign will sag demonstrated that by going above the Budget to include here at a time when, judging from all indications, it ought to be an item of $200,000 for new routes and extensions. getting under the most effective headway. The matter which the gentleman brings up has never been I think I am not overstating the case when I say that we considered. We have had no testimony on it. I should be were appalled by the evidence showing the extent of the very glad when we have our next annual hearings to go into scourge and its ramifications throughout our social life, but that matter and see what we can develop and get the view­ while that is true, we also were favorably impressed with point of the Department on it. However, ·there is an incal­ the possibilities of bringing it under a large measure ot culable number·of new services that might be established, and control and thus reducing to a minimum one of the greatest many which have been brought to our attention really would evils of our times, as has been successfully done in some of be valuable, but we have felt a responsibility-to hold down the the Scandinavian countries. Millions of people once lived appropriation to somewhere in the neighborhood of the in dread of yellow fever, yet science has subjugated yellow Budget estimate. The :matter to which the. gentleman refers fever and it may. not be too optimistic a view to predict that has never been before us, either in budgetary form or in the science, if given proper support, will go a long way toward form of testimony by any Department official. stamping out venereal diseases. Certainly a good start al­ Mr. HARE. I am sure of that. I thought the gentleman ready has been made in that direction. would be in a position to know whether or not it might be HALF A MILLION NEW SYPHILIS CASES A YEAR worth while to offer an amendment to this bill to increase Every year there are 500,000 new cases of syphilis in the the appropriation suffi.ciently to justify this service. Between United States and, at the very minimum, twice that many now and the time for offering amendments arrives the gen- new cases of gonorrhea. Some statistical estimates place 1856 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 24 the number of gonorrhea cases at four times the number It would seem that if three times as many patients could of syphilis cases. Syphilis, the more serious of the diseases, be taken care of under .the existing overhead with an is wrecking homes, spreading misery, filling insane asylums, appropriation of $5,000,000 as compared with the Budget and bringing down the general health level to a point that figure of $3,000,000, the extra $2,000,000 above the Budget demands the sympathetic attention and very best thought estimate would be a good investment. . of every person who loves his fellow man. The problem is SIXTEENTH PART OF THE COST OF A BATTLESHIP TO RESTORE HUMAN so big that private humanitarianism cannot cope with it VALUES and we find it on the doorsteps of Congress. One other phase· of this problem remains to be discussed. We devoted an entire forenoon to a hearing on this subject It perhaps is not its most important phase, and yet it is when the room was filled with eminent medical authorities really important. It is the national-defense angle of the and social workers from all over the country. The viewpoint problem. There has been much talk of late about where of women was expressed with clarity and fine vision by Mrs. our first line of defense is located. I believe, after all that Saidie Orr Dunbar, of Oregon, president of the General Fed­ has been said on the subject, the answer is that our first eration of Women's Clubs, who represented 14,453 clubs, with line of defense is in the fine, healthy, vigorous manhood a combined membership of 2,000,000 women. One of the of America. [Applause.] How can we expect to win wars most impressive aspects of the whole situation, as it was with men whose morale ·is broken and whose bodies are weak­ made clear in the testimony of the numerous speakers, was ened by disease? The great justification of this campaign the disappearance of prudery in dealing with these social against syphilis is its humanitarianism, but it would also be diseases and a recognition that they must be grappled with justified from the standpoint of national defense. in a realistic way. I do not argue the question from that standpoint, but I do It was brought to our attention that there is a change in say that when we are spending untold millions for imple­ the attitude of many victims, who are now willing to cast ments of destruction we ought to be willing to spend a small aside reserve and submit themselves to treatment, which fraction to save and to cure human beings who are suffering affords one of the most encouraging signs that the intensive f~om the ravages of a terrible disease. We propose in this campaign that is being planned will be successful. On that bill to _spend $5,000,000 to fight syphilis during the next year. point the testimony of Dr. William F. Snow, an eminent That 1s only one-sixteenth of the cost of the largest type specialist of New York City, is of special interest, as follows: battleship. It is less than one-third of the cost of a cruiser. It is a million dollars less than the cost of a destroyer or a Mr. LUDLOW. If these venereal clinics were distributed wide­ spread and treatment were made available, do you think that those long-range cruising submarine. It is half the cost of a infected by venereal disease would embrace the opportunity of destroyer tender a11:d less than half the cost of a submarine treatment and cooperate with the medical officers? tender. It is only a little more than four times the amount Dr. SNow. Yes. We have the results of many investigations along that line. A person may come in with an infection he has proposed to be spent for autogiros and it ·is approximately had for a year, and we try to learn why he did not come in before. the cost of eight bomber airplanes. Often the explanation is that he has had a job and had to work Mr. V~ORHIS of California. Mr. Chairman, will the gen .. during the daytime ·when the clinic was open. Not until he lost tleman yield? his job or became seriously ill did he apply. If there had been an evening clinic or some arrangements whereby he could have been Mr. LUDLOvV. I yield to the gentleman from California. helped to go to a private physician he would have gone promptly. Mr. VOORHIS of California. Did I correctly understand Encouraging signs in the war on this plague are the in­ the gentleman to say that the committee has included $5,000, .. crease in the number of clinics established for the treatment 000 for that purpose? of venereal diseases and the increase in the number of Mr. LUDLOW. The gentleman is correct. patients who voluntarily submit themselves for treatment. Mr.. VOORHI~ of California. I wish to congratulate the The number of such clinics increased from 1,240 in 1937 to committee on domg that. I believe it is one of the best ways 1,768 in 1938. The monthly average number of patients we can spend money. As I understand, this is the full under treatment increased from 204,495 in 1937 to 343,255 amount that was authorized in the La Follette-Bulwinkle bill. in 1938. Mr. LUDLOW. It is the full amount of the authorization. STATES ARE INTERESTED AND COOPERATIVE We are glad to know that our action has the approval of the gentleman from California. Are the States doing their part in combating venereal Mr. VOORIDS of California. I thank the gentleman. diseases? This is a proper and pertinent question, for a State Mr. LUDLOW. Surely we can afford to spend the sixteenth that is not conscious of the problem within its gates and part of the cost of a battleship, or the cost of eight bomber willing and anxious to do its part should not expect too large airplanes in a campaign to restore the health of untold thou­ a share of the Federal Government's beneficence. The testi.. sands of venereal victims, and to rehabilitate human values. many shows that the States are alive to their responsibilities. GENERAL PERSHING'S STATEMENT On page 1307 of the printed hearings is a table showing what On pages 1276 and 1277 of the printed hearings will be the States are doing in the fiscal year 1939 and what they found a most interesting and illuminating statement by promise to do during the fiscal year 1940. As against a total General Pershing, commander of the American Expedition­ of $2,937,878 of Federal funds expected to be expended in the ary Forces in the World War, in which he says: fiscal year 1939 under the La Follette-Bulwink.le Act, the I regard syphilis as the most terrible scourge that affiicts man­ States and local governmental units are providing $4,342,329, kind. It is causing more misery of body and mind than any other and this does not include expenditures of nonofficial agencies. preventable disease. As Dr. Farran has said, "It must be the next As against a Federal appropriation of $5,000,000 for the fiscal great plague to go." • • • It is appalling to think that nearly 7,000,000 of our people have syphilis, many of them innocent vic­ year 1940, the States and local units are committed to raise tims. • • • This insidious disease causes or hastens the death $5,000,000, matching the Federal money crollar for dollar. of 100,000 victims annually. In this war on syphilis all must work The plans that have been set up by the States for a cam­ at it intelligently according to their opportunity and their ability to take part in it, and they must do so with the old wartime spirit paign on all fronts against venereal diseases furnished one of that defeated the enemy in 1918. My Army experience has proved the impelling reasons that prompted our subcommittee in to me that the job can be done. allowing the full ·amount of the authorization. When Dr. [Here the gavel fell.] Felix J. Underwood, State health officer of Mississippi and Mr. LUDLOW. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself 20 additional president of the Conference of State and Territorial Health minutes. Officers, was testifying he was asked: Our subcommittee, always scrupulously careful in spending How many more could be brought under treatment if the full the people's money, believes that the States are far enough $5,000,000 (instead of $3,000,000) were appropriated? advanced in their preparations to be able to use $5,000,000 He replied: of Federal funds advantageously in a cooperative onslaught A number of States say that they could take care of about three on this plague. With the States' own contribution of $5,000,- times as many, because they have the overhead that would take care 000, $10,000,000 of that many more. They have trained personnel and have set up a war chest of will thus be made available to programs agreeable to the act which was passed, covering a.n attack this insidious enemy, and very definite progress should expenditure of. f5,000,09Q. · · be made in this tmporta.nt work during the next :fiscal y~ 1939 CONGRESSIONAL. RECORD-HOUSE 1857. · With· your indulgence I shall now take up the bill in its Chicago Tribune, the New York Times, and Collier's, the orderly sequence and discuss some of its main provisions, be­ franking privilege for any one of which costs the Government ginning with the Post Office Department. Obviously you more than the franking privilege for the entire Congress? would not have the tim~and may I say the patience-to Mr. LUDLOW. I believe undoubtedly the gentleman is listen to me in too minute and detailed a presentation of its correct. multifarious items. Mr. PATMAN. It is true, is it not, that a newspaper or POSTAL SERVICE ALMOST SELF-SUSTAINING magazine can be mailed in the county in which it is pub­ Eliminating the nonpostal items, which cannot in fairness lished without any postage whatever being paid on it, and it be charged to postal expenditures, the Postal Service is very will be delivered? nearly on a self-sustaining basis. Mr. LUDLOW. The gentleman is stating facts all the way In fact, tongue and buckle more than met in the fiscal through, but I may say to the gentleman this is a matter year 1938, when the postal expenditures, exclusive of non­ over which our subcommittee has no control. It is a statu­ postal items, were $724,221,229.51, and the postal revenues tory matter, and the gentleman's recourse, if he wants to were $728,634,051.36, leaving a surplus of $4,412,821.85. This remedy that condition, is to take the matter up through the was the fourth postal surplus in 5 years. The prognosis for proper legislative committee. 1939 and 1940 is not quite so favorable for, although in­ Mr. PATMAN. Yes; but the point is that the newspapers creases in postal revenues are forecast, deficits are antici­ and magazines last year cost the Government $89,000,000 pated amounting to $7,893,878 in 1939 and $1,844,684 in 1940. more than what they paid in postage. The Post Office Department is primarily a service institu­ Mr. LUDLOW. That is my understanding. tion, yet it is the only department of the Government that Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? practically pays its way. The postal-revenue estimate of Mr. LUDLOW. I yield to my colleague on the committee. $740,000,000 for the fiscal year 1940 is based on a continuance Mr. TABER. It is a fact, however, that the item of free of 3-cent letter postage. postage for newspapers within the counties in which they The Department officials, anxious to make as good a finan­ are published is a very small item, amounting to something cial showing as possible, are unalterably opposed to a restora­ like six or seven hundred thousand dollars. tion of the old 2-cent rate, although they recognize a wide­ Mr. LUDLOW. I have the exact figure on that particular spread demand for 2-cent postage, especially among business item, $637,150. interests. It is claimed by officials that such a cut in the Mr. PATMAN. I know, but the gentleman is referring to letter postage would mean the loss of $100,000,000 in income country weekly papers. I know that is true of such papers.' the first year and $75,000,000 a year thereafter, and that the The country weekly paper does not amount to a great deal, Department could not stand such a falling off of revenue. This but for all newspapers and magazines the loss amounts to argument is challenged by proponents of the reduction, who $89,000,000 a year. contend that an increased volume of mail would result, and Mr. TABER. Oh, yes. that the postage from the increased mailings would largely Mr. LUDLOW. And I may say to the gentleman that that offset the loss from the decreased rate. From any standpoint, is a legislative matter and not a matter of appropriation. postal finances appear to be in a healthy condition with the Mr. PATMAN. I am simply anxious for the information volume of mail on a steady upward curve. The largest non­ to be brought out. I do not know what the remedy should postal item is the penalty mail of the Government depart­ be, and I am not saying the practice is wrong~ If the people ments. The rapid expansion of the Government and the get the benefit of this franking privilege in lower subscrip­ establishment of many new activities are factors causing an tion rates or if it is justified by reason of the dissemination increase of that item from $8.537.730 in 1928 to $35,690,807 in of knowledge and information, I am not objecting to it but 1938. In the same period the cost of sending out congres­ just pointing it out. Since the people are paying so much sional mail under the franking privilege has decreased from to provide for distribution of newspapers, I am sure many of $909,864 in 1928 to $779,369 in 1938. the publishers consider that they owe a duty to the public, FIVE ADDITIONAL INSPECTORS ALLOWED and for that reason are very anxious to fairly give to their Post-office inspectors have been described as "the eyes readers both sides of every public question. and ears of the Postmaster General, and the inspection force Mr. GARRE'IT. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? undoubtedly performs a very important function in the gov­ Mr. LUDLOW. I yield. ernmental scheme. The Postmaster General and his assist­ Mr. GARRETI'. Will the gentleman please explain to the ants are entrusted with the disbursement of appropriations Committee what formula was used in arriving at the ex­ totaling $793,000,000 for 1939 and with the rendition of varied pense to the Federal Government by reason of the fact that services affecting the daily life of every citizen. Congressmen utilize the privilege they have of franking. Mr. PATMAN. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? Was that figured from the very beginning of delivery until it Mr. LUDLOW. I yield to the gentleman from Texas. is finally delivered, including every person who handles it? Mr. PATMAN. The gentleman mentioned the franking Mr. LUDLOW. They have a cost-ascertainment system privilege. Will the gentleman state how much the franking and make test cases at different periods, as I understand, and privilege cost the Government last year for newspapers and in this way arrive at these figures. magazines, including parcel post and the second-, third-, and Mr. GARRETT. Is that followed from the very inception fourth-class mail? of the matter until it is finally delivered? Mr. LUDOOW. The excess of expenditures over revenues Mr. LUDLOW. It is supposed to cover all elements of cost. of all second-class matter was about $89,000,000. Mr. GARRETT. Including, in the gentleman's opinion, the Mr. PATMAN. That is second class, just newspapers and handling by postal clerks and also rural delivery? magazines, but what about third class and fourth class? Mr. LUDLOW. Everything is considered by the cost- Mr. LUDLOW. For the third class, I understand, the ascertainment committee. deficit is $29,000,000. Mr. LEAVY. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? Mr. PATMAN. I understand the figure for all the classes Mr. LUDLOW. Certainly. is $129,000,000. Mr. LEAVY. There has been a great deal of criticism and, Mr. LUDLOW. I believe that is correct. I think, misinformation given to the public in reference to the Mr. PATMAN. The total amount that was franked by cost of the franking privilege by Members of Congress. If I Members of Congress, 531 Members, aggregated not to exceed understood the gentleman correctly, as a matter of fact, the $800,000 for the same period. cost of the franking privilege in 1937 was about 12 percent Mr. LUDLOW. Seven hundred and seventy-nine thousand less than it was back in 1928. three hundred and sixty-nine dollars. Mr. LUDLOW. I will repeat the :figures for the gentleman's Mr. PATMAN. Is it not a fact that there are certain pub­ information and-for the information of the House. lications in ~he country like the Saturday Evening ;fost, th~ Mr. LEAVY. I wish the gentleman would. 1858 _CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 24' lV.a.r. LUDLOW. -In 1928 the cost of the congressional frank­ Time was when domestic air mail was a heavily subsidized ing privilege was $909,864, and in 1938 it was $779,369. service, but in recent years it has been approaching the self­ Mr. BYRNS of Tennessee. Mr. Chairman, will the gentle­ sustaining point. The estimated air-mail postage revenue man yield? for the present fiscal year 1939 is $f6,000,000, or only $650,000 Mr. LUDLOW. I yield to the gentleman. less than the domestic air-mail appropriation for the current · Mr. BYRNS of Tennessee. May I ask the gentleman if, year. To further enhance the popularity of the Air Mail including in this figuring showing the expense to the Govern­ Service, consideration is now being given to the advisability ment of use by Members of Congress of the frank, there is of inaugurating a new form of communication by ·air, a sort included the expense to the Government caused by the use of lettergram on one sheet of paper, folded up, and having a of the frank by "lame ducks" who have been repudiated bY weight limit of half an ounce. If this is adopted, the rate on their people but who have the continued use of this franking this type of message probably will be 3 or 4 cents as against privilege for a year after their defeat? the present straight air rate of 6 cents. Mr. LUDLOW. I am saying to the gentleman that I am Mr. GARRET!'. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? sure it does include that. Every element of cost is considered Mr. LUDLOW. I yield to the gentlEman. by the cost ascertainment committee in reaching these fig­ Mr. GARRETT. Will the gentleman please explain to the ures and that would include the element to which the gentle­ Committee whether or not the policy now being followed by man refers. the Post Office Department, which permits post offi.ces to The proper administration of such an enterprise as the close on Saturday afternoons at 1 o'clock, has effected any Postal Service requires the services of a mobile force of highly material saving to the Department? trained experts responsible directly to the Postmaster Gen­ Mr. LUDLOW. I may say to the gentleman from Texas eral, upon whom he and the Assistant Postmasters General that we have no testimony on that subject at all that I can may rely for dependable information and sound technical recall and I cannot inform the gentleman as to the amount advice. These experts are the inspectors. of saving. For years the Department has claimed that its inspection Mr. GARRETT. Then would the gentleman tell us why force was insufficient and this year an estimate was pre­ that policy has been promulgated within the last year or so, sented to us for 30 additional inspectors with a correspond­ depriving ma_ny people of securing their ·mail at the post ing increase in travel allowance. These are high-sala:ried office after 1 o'clock· on Saturday afterriooris? - -_· · ~ employees and the 30 inspectors asked would fix an annual Mr. LUDLOW: I would assume offhand that is a part charge of $130,000 on the Treasury; e~clusive of travel. of the administration of the statutory hours-of-service' law~ · Our subcommittee is always ·reluctant to build up the per­ They close such offices on Saturday afternoon, I take it, be-· manent salaried personnel of the Government except under cause of the necessity of establishing service weeks of certain circumstances of positive urgency. We feel that we have length. · been ·fairly liberal in increasing this force, having allowed 15 additional inspectors in 1936, 35 in 1937, 10 in 1938, and Mr. GARRETT. And not as a matter of economy? 10 in the fiscal year 1939, making 610 authorized inspectors . Mr. LUDLOW. I do not believe economy is the prime at the present time. We have allowed 5 additional inspec­ motive. tors for the fiscal year 1940 and we believe the Department Mr. KITCHENS. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? will be able to get along with that number. We are strength­ :Mr. LUDLOW. Yes. ened somewhat in that view by the fact that the Depart­ Mr. KITCHENS. I understand that is done- not neces­ ment has not yet appointed the 10 inspectors we authorized sarily on Saturday afternoons. They can take any day last year, the money that otherwise would have been paid they desire, or rather, they can take any half day they to the new inspectors having been taken up in reallocations desire. of salaries. The net effect of the committee's action, there­ Mr. LUDLOW. Compensatory time. fore, is to grant 15 additional inspectors for the next fiscal Mr. KITCHENS. That is right. year. Mr. PACE. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman permit an We have allowed the full Budget estimates for clerks, car­ interruption? riers, and the other great groups of employees who comprise the bone and sinew of the Postal Service. These, of course, Mr. LUDLOW. I will be pleased to do so, but I do not are the vital services of the Department. The mails must like to take so much of the time of the' Committee. be handled and if experience proves that the Budget esti­ Mr. PACE. I do not like to take the gentleman away from mates are insufficient to provide the necessary personnel to his train of thought, but I must leave the Chamber in a keep the mails moving the doors will always be open for minute. I receive a considerable amount of correspondence deficiency appropriations. on the question of tWine used by the postal authorities. The gentleman knows the greatest surplus in the history of the EXTENSIONS OF DOMESTIC Am SERVICE world. today is. cotton. The Government now holds loans on The Budget Bureau sent to us an estimate of $18,930,000 approximately 12,000,000 bales, with an investment of $600,- for domestic air-mail service, which, if allowed, would have 000,000. It is my impression that at this time the Depart­ been the largest appropriation for domestic air mail since ment uses principally twine manufactured from jute, which, 1933 and an increase of $2,280,000 over the appropriation as the gentleman knows, is a foreign commodity. for the fiscal year 1939. This estimate included $350,980 Mr. LUDLOW. That is true. - for new routes and extensions, $1,456,052 for increased fre­ (luencies, $247,568 for feeder routes, and $200,000 for experi­ :Mr. PACE. I was wondering if there has developed before mental routes. Your committee, without entertaining any the gentleman's committee the reason they insist on jute, or doubt of the value of domestic air mail or the desirability why it would not be helpful to use an American commodity of extending it, decided that the estimate· was a little too in line with .the thought that the American farmer should be high. We allow-ed $17,930,000, which will maintain the air entitled to the American market. Could the gentleman help service on its present basis and allow $1,280,000 for increase me a little on that? and development in the various categories of service. This Mr. LUDLOW. Mr. Chairman, I move that the Committee Will permit a liberal program of new routes and extensions do now rise. and increased frequencies, also allowing for continued ex­ The motion was.agreed to. periments of pick-up and delivery of mail in flight and the Accordingly the Committee rose; and the Speaker having inauguration of feeder service, which is a line of experimen­ resumed the chair, Mr. BOEHNE, Chairman of the Committee tation in which the Department is greatly interested. It is of the Whole House on the state of the Union, reported that proposed to establish several short feeder routes to test this that Committee had had under consideration the bill Low. Cotton being an importa.nt American product, I was wondermg why you do not use more of it for twine. that is a rather small sum to be allowed under such condi­ Mr. PuRDUM. That is due to the disparity in prices. As I said be· tions as that? I understand there are similar conditions in fore, in arriving at a decision as to award of contract, the pur­ California and other States throughout the country. chasing agent of the Department takes .into consideration the law Mr. LUDLOW. Let me answer the gentleman by stating and the regulations governing a differential. that we allowed every cent which the Bureau of the Budget That seems to be all of the testimony at that particular estimated. The Budget estimated what the Procurement point, but the matter came up in numerous connections, and Division thought it would be able to use. This is not a mush­ the cost differential was the main objection to the use of room proposition, and the building facilities of the Procure­ cotton twine, according to the Department officials. ment Division cannot expand to any prodigious extent to take 1860 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE ~EBRUARY 24 care of an enlarged program. They have a certain limited RAIL TRANSPORTATION AND STAR ROUTES organization, and they can only use a certain amount of The evolution of rail transportation has brought large de­ money. They estimate that in the continuation of this pro­ creases in the appropriations for railroad transportation of gram $30,000,000 was all they could use. They estimated that, mails and for personal services incident to the handling of and the Budget allowed the full amount. I do not think it railway mail. For paying railroads for carrying the mails would be prudent to allow an amount of money they could not the estimate of one hundred and two million submitted to use. us for 1940 is $5,750,000 below the appropriation for 1939. Mr. O'CONNOR. May I call the gentleman's attention to For personal services of employees in the Railway Mail Serv­ this fact, that under the present set-up it would take 54 ice the estimate of $56,000,000 for 1940 is $1,500,000 below years for the Post Office Department to meet the demands the 1939 appropriation. We allowed the Budget estimate in for post offices in my district in Montana. the latter item and substantially the Budget estimate for Mr. LUDLOW. I know how carefully the gentleman looks railroad transportation. after his State, and, of course, I accept the statement he has The wholesale discontinuance of trains by the railroads, made; but when the Procurement Division tells us that their which is one of the phenomena of modern times, has thrown facilities will permit the use of only $30,000,000 a year, we much of the mail that formerly was handled 'by the railroads would not feel justified in putting into the bill a lot of money over into the star routes, and while the railway-mail items over and above their ability to perform. are going down the star-route expenditure is going up. Mr. O'NEAL. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? Testimony of Department officials was that this condition Mr. LUDLOW. I yield. not only will continue but, in the language of Mr. Cole, Mr. O'NEAL. How much money would it· take to complete Deputy Second Assistant Postmaster General, it will "grow the needs in the gentleman's district, if it would take 54 worse." The Department not only has transferred $150,000 years to do it? this year from its railrqad transportation appropriation to its Mr. O'CONNOR. It would take $75,000 each for 18 eligible appropriation for star routes, but it is expecting an unex­ cities. pended balance of $3,700,000 in its railroad transportation [Here the gavel fell.] appropriation at the end of the present fiscal year. We had a Mr. LUDLOW. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself 5 additional good deal of testimony from officials that they are not forcing minutes. the withdrawal of mails from the trains but rather are fol­ Mr. O'CONNOR. You can multiply $75,000 by 18, and that lowing the natural course of transportation development would be the amount required. which imposes upon them the responsibility of seeing that the Mr. O'NEAL. How much money would it take to meet the mails are transported and delivered by the most feasible requirements in all districts of the United States if they had means available when trains are withdrawn. Recognizing the same demands? the increased burden thrown upon the star routes, we have Mr. O'CONNOR. They do not have the same demands. increased the star-route appropriation for 1940 $550,000 over Many of the States are well provided for. Montana seems the appropriation for 1939. to have been neglected in the past. POLICY IN REGARD TO EMERGENCY EMPLOYEES Mr. MURDOCK of Arizona. Mr. Chairman, will the gen­ Early in our consideration of the financial needs of the tleman yield? Treasury Department we were confronted by a problem that Mr. LUDLOW. Certainly; I yield to my friend. stared at us through many of the estimates, and that was a Mr. MURDOCK of Arizona. I feel that my colleague from desire on the part of key officials to cover into their regular Montana is correct. There are western communities that forces employees who have been living off of the emergency are in need of buildings. In my own State I could name 12 rolls. It seemed that these key officials regarded the future of cities that are eligible for new post-office buildings. This is emergency activities as precarious, and it was their hope to probably not the right place to take it up, but I want that bring tried and tested emergency employees into the safe fact to be known. and secure haven of regular appointments before the abol­ Mr. LUDLOW. Knowing both of the gentlemen who have ishment of emergency services should leave them out in the spoken, I do not have any doubt they will get all that is cold. We could hardly blame them for that, as a very fair coming to their States. proportion of the emergency employees that have been Mr. O'CONNOR. We will try. brought into the picture have proved faithful and efficient, Mr. LUDLOW. Now, Mr. Chairman, I feel I have occupied giving promise of long and valuable service if covered into altogether too much time of the Committee, but there are one regular appointments. In many instances the testifying or two other matters that I must refer to. key officials told us that these so-called emergency employ­ TRANS-ATLANTIC AIR MAIL ees already are doing regular work exclusively and that it is Two years ago we included in the 1938 appropriation bill administratively important that they be fused into regular the initial appropriation to start trans-Atlantic air;..mail positions. service, coordinated with a British service which was to start It seemed to us that this proposal suggested the wisdom of simultaneously. The service was not begun. We renewed establishing a general policy that would apply not only to the the appropriation for the present fiscal year and still the activities under our bill but to all of the Government depart­ service has not been started. In preparing this bill making ments and bureaus wherever the problem presents itself. So appropriations for the fiscal year 1940 we had before us an we have deferred action without prejudice on these specific estimate of $995,680 to carry on 7 months' operation of twice­ requests and have referred the matter to the Deficiencies weekly trans-Atlantic air service, and we allowed the esti­ Subcommittee for consideration in its broader aspects looking mate on assurance that the service really will be established toward the formulation of a general policy, · beginning probably about May 1 next. OLD-AGE RESERVE ACCOUNT It was explained to us that the delay has been caused by Our bill appropriates $580,000,000 to the old-age reserve inability to secure delivery Of planes. The new type of account set up under the Social Security Act, which is $20,- clipper has been tested by the Boeing Co. and plans are 000,000 less than the Budget estimate of $600,000,000. There now well advanced. The British are behind in their pro­ is a great latitude of guesswork connected with estimates for gram for ships and America may start the service alone, the old-age reserve account, and we believe that our estimate to be followed by reciprocal service with the British and is likely to be nearer the mark than the estimate that came perhaps with the French and other countries. Air service to us from the Budget. In any event, no harm can be done between Seattle and Juneau, for which Congress last· year and no inconvenience can be caused beyond the necessity of appropriated $100,000, has not yet been established. We a slight readjustment in the future appropriation. have allowed $213,363 for the operation of this service next Under the law, this account is to be kept as nearly even year on a full-year basis and we also approved an addi­ as possible with the social-security taxes collected. When tional trip between New York ~nd Montreal, daily except the $580,000,000 we have provided is added to this account Sunday, at a cost of $125,240. the total amount in the fund will be $1,705,000,000. This 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 1861 fund is invested in Government securities, specially created by do so in every city in the country where slum conditions are the Secreta-ry of the Treasury to meet the requirements of as bad or worse, which is a reductio ad absurdum conclu­ the fund, and bearing 3-percent interest. sion, as there would hardly be money enough in the world to UNCLE SAM OWNS ONE-FIFTH OF LAND SURFACE take on such activities. Our subcommittee nevertheless was The fiscal year 1940 will be the seventh year in which Fed­ impressed with the earnestness of Mr. Ihlder, who came eral land-bank borrowers have been given a reduced interest before us to defend the estimate, and since the enterprise rate on their mortgage loans through Federal appropriation. has been started and some results of a beneficial character It is estimated that on June 30 next, the average contract have been obtained, we thought it was fair to provide a interest rate on the volume of 626,000 outstanding mortgages moderate appropriation to continue the work. We have will be 4.9952 percent. The ditrerence between the average allowed the Alley Dwelling Authority $500,000, which, with contract rate of 4:.9952 percent and the statutory reduced the amount it has on hand and the loan it has from tlie rate of 3.5 percent is 1.4952 percent. The Farm Credit Federal Housing Administration, should provide sufficient re­ Administration at first estimated that $30,000,000 would be sources to enable it to proceed and demonstrate what it can required to cover this ditrerential in 1940, including a safety accomplish. margin of $342,000, but when Governor Hill came before us A MILLION FAMILIES HOLD BABY BONDS he testified that the full margin of $342,000 would not be We allowed 18 additional employees to the Public Debt required and suggested a cut of $250,000 in the estimate. We Service, whose work will be mainly in the redemption of have allowed $29,700,000 which still provides a safety margin · baby bonds. The so-called baby bonds are our most novel of $42,000 and we believe this appropriation is ample. To and interesting governmental securities. The total cash pur­ cover the interest differential on Federal Farm Mortgage chase price of outstanding baby bonds on November 30 last Corporation loans, which are affected by a similar statutory was about $1,500,000,000, with a maturity value of about interest· cut, we allowed $7,425,000, a reduction of $75,000 · $2,000,000,000. Baby bonds are now held by more than a below the Budget, but ·apparently entirely ample. In 1938 million families and tens of thousands of persons put their the 12 Federal land banks had 24,055 farms on hand, ac­ whole faith in them. Many people save through baby bonds quired through foreclosure, and the losses on account of real who never saved before. It is claimed that these bonds have estate in 1938 amounted to $9,497,000. These Government­ a great value in stimulating patriotism and good citizenship owned farms are located in every State in the Union. by making so many persons stockholders of the Govern­ Through all of its real-estate holdings of all descriptions ment. These bonds mature in 10 years and the maturity the Government now owns one-fifth of the land surface of the values of the various denominations are $25, $50, $100, $500, United States. The statutory reduction of interest rate will and $1,000. Several large corporations make allotments expire on July 1, 1940, and unless it is extended, interest on from the salaries of employees to buy these bonds. In that date will revert to the contract rate, whatever it may be, America no other single security is held by as many owners. on each loan. These are the only United States Government securities that ALLEY DWELLING AUTHORITY are sold by a promotion campaign. . This year the sales­ We come now to the Alley Dwelling Authority, concerning promotion cost is estimated at $682,000. If the bonds are which we heard considerable testimony. It is an authority held until maturity, the interest rate is 2.9 percent per an­ that operates in the city of Washington and nowhere else in num, compounded semiannually. However, many of the the riddance of slums. Its benefits are confined entirely to . holders, being of very limited means, have to turn their the Capital City, and there is no other Federal activity like bonds in for redemption, often before 6 months have ex­ it anywhere in the United States. pired, in which event no interest is paid. It envisions a large ultimate program against improper NEGOTIABILITY OF GOVERNMENT CHECKS living conditions and attendant vice and evil caused by In our examination of the estimates of the Commissioner crowded and insanitary living quarters. It assumes that of Accounts and Deposits we encountered a perplexing situ­ there are 200 or 250 squares in the city of Washington that ation growing out of the permanent Appropriations Repeal need to be dealt with, and, while the final estimated outlay Act of 1934, in which the Treasury Department and the Gen­ was indefinite, something was said about $20,000,000 being eral Accounting Office have locked horns. Section 21 of necessary to cover the cost of the whole project. The Au~ that act reduced the period of negotiability of Government thority has operated to date on an appropriation and an checks from 3 years to 1 year, or rather to 1 full year allotment from emergency funds totaling $865,000 and re­ after the expiration of the fiscal year in which the check is ceipts from operations amounting to $148,438. It also has issued. It is surprising how many persons who receive Gov­ secured a loan of $6,600,000 from the United States Housing ernment checks hold them indefinitely. Many keep them Administration and is negotiating for $8,400,000 more as an for a "rainy day," reasoning that a check from Uncle Sam additional loan from that Administration. It came before is always good and that they can go down to the bank and us requesting a loan of $1,000,000 to be immediately avail­ get their money at any time. They are disillusioned when able and to remain available until expended. Authorization they find that the period of negotiability has expired, and for such a loan is contained in the Alley Dwelling Act ap­ they have to go through a long process of redemption before proved June 25, 1938. they can get their money. Mr. Bartelt, the Commissioner of Every member of ·our subcommittee is sympathetic with Accounts and Deposits, testified that there are 262,863 checks efforts to improve improper living conditions, wherever they which have not been covered into the Treasury because of may exist, but we felt that some questions may properly be that provision. He advocates the repeal of section 21 and raised in respect to this activity. In the first place Wash­ restoration of the 3-year period of negotiability. ington is traditionally known and advertised as one of the The Comptroller G€neral as strenuously opposes repeal and cleanest and best governed cities in the world, a city where advocates further reduction of the period of negotiability to living conditions probably are as ideal as in any center of a strict 1-year limit, instead of one full year from the expira­ population on the globe. To use the assistance of the Fed­ tion of the fiscal year in which the check is issued. The posi­ eral Treasury here and deny it to many cities of the United tion of the General Accounting Office is fully set forth in a States where slum conditions are worse than here appeared letter addressed to the chairman of the subcommittee and questionable and the further inquiry was made as to whether printed in the hearings. The Commissioner of Accounts and this problem, which is distinctly a local one, should not be Deposits asks for 12 additional employees on account of the financed, in part at least, by local taxation, since Washing­ reduced period of negotiability, 4 to take care of the back­ ton is known as a city of large per capita wealth. log and 8 to keep the work current, at an annual cost of It seemed to some of the members of our subcommittee $19,080. As emergency employees are now engaged in this that if the Federal Government is to go into this sort of work, the decision, under our policy, will rest later with the • enterprise in Washington it would be logical to expect it to Deficiencies Subcommittee. 1862 CONGRESSIONAL RECOED-HOUSE FEBRUARY 24 COMPrnOLLERS OF CUSTOMS ABOLISHED F.:>r income-tax refunds we allowed $38,000,000, which, The Customs Service for many years was heavily laden with although a reduction of $1,000,000 below the Budget, is $3,- useless offices which were in the nature of luscious political 000,000 over the appropriation for 1939, and in the light of plums but in nowise essential to the efficient administration experience we believe this amount will be sufficient. This is of the Service. A few years ago our subcommittee in one . an unpredictable item, and in no event can any harm be stroke abolished the offices of surveyors of customs, and our done, as refunds are legal obligations and have to be paid · action was sustained by the full Committee on Appropria­ either by regular or deficiency appropriations. tions and by Congress, and those offices went out of the pic­ COAST GUARD INCREASES ture. · Their discontinuance has not caused a single adverse The Coast Guard, also an important service, requested an ripple, but the Service has gone on more efficiently than increase of 22 commissioned officers, 106 enlisted men, and before._ 16 cadets in the average number to be carried; also an in­ This year, with the full approval of the Secretary of the crease of $118,159 to make additions to the retired list. For Treasury and the Commissioner of Customs, we have decided , 1939 the pay and allowances appropriation for that service is to abolish the comptrollers of customs. Mr. Ballinger, repre­ $18,037,000. We increased the amount to $18 ~ 445,500 for senting the -Secretary of the Treasury, and Mr. Dow, as · 1940 to take care of existing obligations and absolutely neces­ spokesman for the Customs Bureau, came · before our sub­ sary increases of personnel. This is· $59,500 below the Budget committee and approved the excision of these superfluous, estimate. The reduction in this estimate is possible largely high-paid officials from the Federal pay roll, stating that because the two new .aviation stations will not be in operation they are wholly unnecessary and that the work can easily until after January 1, 1940. be readjusted so that their elimination will not be felt. The For additional Coast Guard airplanes we allowed $300·,ooo comptrollers' offices to be abolished are located at Boston, and directed that it be applied to the purchase of two planes New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, New Orleans, San Fran­ each for the new Elizabeth City, N. C., and San Francisco cisco, and Chicago, and on the suggestion of the office of stations, each of which already has been allowed three Secretary of the Treasury and the Customs Bureau we have planes. It was our belief that a complement of five planes, discontinued the appropriation to pay_the salary of Surveyor one of long range, will enable each of these stations . to of the Port of New York, another useless office. The total . function efficiently. amount to·be saved by this program of abolishing unnecessary The Bureau of Engraving's reserve stock was replenished offices is $51,600 per annum. by the appropriation for 1939 and under its future program We have allowed $252,000 for long overdue promotions in -its output for 1940 will be reduced by 22,292,929 printed sheets. the Customs Service, where conditions are exceptional~ in that This is the main factor in making possible a reduction of many employees of the lower-paid groups have gone as long $1;750,000 in the appropriation for that Bureau for the as 15 years without a promotion. We have provided that no ne~t fiscal year. · We have fixed $8,450,000 as the 1940 : employee receiving more than $3,000 a year shall benefit from appropriation. this promotional program; THE FIGHT ON MA1tiHUANA STRENGTHENING OF BUDGET BUREAU We have dealt liberally with· the Bureau of Narcotics, Last year the President asked Congress for additional partly because it has a fine record of service and because the funds with which to strengthen and expand the staff of the fight that is being waged on marihuana has greatly increas·ed · Bureau of the Budget. The Congress responded, and in addi­ the burdens and responsibilities of the Bureau. The Mari­ tion to the regular appropriation of $187,000 for that Bureau, huana Act became effective in October 1937, and since that a supplemental appropriation of $132,710 was granted, or time agents of the Bureau have destroyed 26,000 tons of $319,710 in all. In view of the tremendously important serv- marihuana on 15,000 acres of land throughout the country. . ice rendered by the Bureau of the Budget in the appropriating Marihuana will grow anyWhere as a· weed or plant, some­ scheme, it was felt that there was abundant justification for times attaining a height of 10 to 16 feet in a short 'time. It this reorganization of its functions and strengthening of its has no indispensable medical value, but as a narcotic its staff. reactions are viol.ent, causing addicts to commit brutal and The reorganization is proceeding auspiciously under the murderous crimes. It affects the higher nerve centers and capable direction of Mr. Bell, the Acting Director of the creates insane delusions. Usually it is smoked in the form Bureau. Four main divisions have been set up, the Division of cigarettes, but sometimes it is infused with whisky and of Estimates, the Fiscal Division, the Division of Coordination, consumed in that way. There is a resin called cannabinol and the Division of Investigation. Our subcommittee thought · which is supposed to be the active constituent of the drug. that it is important and in the public interest that this In the campaign against marihuana the Bureau is having reorganization shall proceed without interruption, and we • excellent cooperation from police authorities · everywhere. allowed the full estimates for the Budget Bureau, including In Indianapolis there is a _police official whose sole duty it $479,280 for salaries and expenses and $40,000 for printing is to spot plots of marihuana and report them. and binding. Incidentally it will be of some interest to guard­ We have allowed the Secret Service Division a small in­ ians of the Treasury to learn that the printing of the 1939 crease of personnel to take care of its increasing load, and Budget cost $37,444, which is an item over which the Budget we have recognized the expanding responsibilities of the Bureau has no control. United States Public Health Service by allowing that Service ADDITIONAL PERSONNEL FOR INTERNAL REVENUE an increase of $31,800 over its 1939 personnel appropriation The Internal Revenue Service is, of course, a vital service, which may be used to employ additional commissioned health as it brings in the main sinews of war required to run the officers. Government of the United States. Recent acts of Congress LmERAL APPROPRIATIONS FOR PUBLIC HEALTH have added to its responsibilities and functions. For salaries We have dealt liberally with the Public Health Service in . and expenses of that Bureau the estimate was $60,700,000, an all of its items, recognizing its importance in the human increase of $2,000,000 over the appropriation for 1939. The · equation. We have allowed $1,600,000 to carry on the diseases estimates asked for the following increases in personnel: and sanitation investigations in the numerous categories of Twenty estate-tax agents, $61,000; 178 employees for field­ projects which will continue those projects with the same collection service, $320,400; 273 employees for income-tax personnel as this year. We have allowed the National Cancer field service, $779,520. Institute, which is doing a most important work, an increase We feel that a reasonable increase in personnel under · of $40,000 over its $400,000 appropriation for this year, and this Bureau is justified, and we allowed $59,772,500 for sal­ we have appropriated in grants to States for public-health aries and expenses, which will permit of the employment of work the full legal authorization of $8,000,000. • 15 additional estate-tax agents, 100 additional employees for TlJE PUBLIC-BUILDINGS PROGRAM field collection service, and 125 additional employees for the We have approved the Budget estimate of $30,000,000 to income-tax field service. carry on the construction of public buildings throughout the 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--HOUSE 1863 country ·und.er the authorizations contained in the acts of tense can deceive and no glamour can mislead. The real man is discovered, his worth is impartially weighed, his rank is irreversibly August 25, 1937, arid June 21, 1938. decreed. This is what is known as the 3-year program, for which $130,000,000 is provided in the two authorizations. So far The truth of the above statement is just as obvious to all $59,000,000 has been appropriated under this program; and if _of us who sit in this Chamber today and observe its inexo­ the $30,000,000 in this bill is passed by Congress, the total rable demonstration as it was 57 years ago. appropriation will be $89,000,000. If this $30,000,000 is ap­ "The mills of the gods grind slowly, but they grind exceed ... propriated, it will be entirely for the continuation of build­ ing small" might well be a text for a sermon to those who in ing construction outside the District of Columbia. The theory any session of Congress attempt the rapids before they have is that every congressional district in the country will have learned to swim. ·a building under this program, but there are districts where How then may a newly elected Representative fit himself there are no eligible projects, and a reservation has been for efiicient service and the discharge of his duties, as such, made of 56 projects, aggregating $4,450,000, pending a time is an ever-recurring question with which all of us are con­ when the eligibility of these districts may be established. fronted. .With the appropriations contained in this bill, $41,000,000 So it may not be out of place, and I hope may not be con­ will be left under the authorization to be appropriated in the sidered presumptuous, Mr. Chairman, if, with a due apprecia­ future as the projects come along. tion of my own limitation, I undertake to pass on to others In this bill we also have appropriated $8,000,000 to continue some of the answers, counsel, and advice so generously given work on the Social Security Building, $5,000,000 to continue by those older and more experienced in service, to whom, on work on the War Department Building, and $2,800,000 to both sides of the aisle, we are grateful for such counsel, complete construction of · the Government Printing Ofiice sought and given, as has helped us to steer past whirlpools Annex, all of which have been authorized and appropriated wherein we most surely would have at least capsized and has for in part. The amounts allowed are in accordance with saved us from many prospective bumps and bruises, and what the experts estimate will be required during the next made life bearable for us. fiscal year. One of the wiser and more farseeing of my friends ad­ We have tried to exercise the most painstaking care in the vised me to familiarize myself· with l£wis Deschler's py of his Thus the reports stated: letter which shows that in his judgment and according to the OBSTACLES TO ELECTION decisions thus far rendered not only the employer is given the Under Public Resolution 44, any attempt by the Government to right of appeal, but the employee is given the right of appeal conduct an election of representatives may be contested ab initio in all complaint cases. in the courts, although such election is in reality a preliminary Mr. HOFFMAN. Will the gentleman write him another determination of fact. This means that the Government can be delayed indefinitely before it takes the first step toward industrial letter and ask him what position the counsel for the Board peace. • • • took in the Calcocraft case now pending, as to whether or not Thls break-down of the law is breeding the very evil which the the employee was a person aggrieved? law was designed to prevent. • • • (S. Rept. No. 573, pp. 5-6). The ability of employers to bloclt elections has been productive Mr. O'CO:NNOR. Oh, I am not going to be outdone by the of a large measure of industrial strife. ·when an employee organi­ gentleman in civilities. I suggest that he write the letter zation has built up its membership to a point where it is entitled he refers to and I am sure that he will get a prompt reply. to be recognized as the representative of the employees for collec­ Very well. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to ex­ tive bargaining • • • the union, unless an election can promptly be held to determine the choice of representatives, runs tend my remarks in the RECORD. the risk of impairment of strength by attrition and delay while the -The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection? case is dragging all through the courts, or else is forced to call a There was no objection. strike to achieve recognition by its own economic power. Such strikes have been called when election orders of the National Labor Mr. O'NEAL. Mr. Chairman, I yield 15 minutes to the ,Relations Board have been held up by court review (H. Rept. No. gentleman from Texas [Mr. MAHoN]. 1147, p. 7). Mr. MAHON. Mr. Chairman, I have been a Member of the . When it is considered that the Board, up to January 1, House for a few years, but this is the first year in which I have 1939, handled 6,157 representation petitions, involving just been a member of the Committee -on Appropriations. I have short of 2,000,000 employees, the tremendous burden of liti­ been amazed at the arduous additional duties of a member of gation and the great possibility of delay and unrest, which, the Committee on Appropriations and I have marveled at the · permitting appeals from such cases would · entail,- beccmes 1 fortitude and physical, as well as mental, . capacity of our ·staggering. Experience has amply demonstrated that em­ chairman. [Mr. .LUDLOW] in sitting through these hearings ployees or even unions instigated by employer~ are too often from 10 o'clock in the morning until late in the afternoon , willing to act at the employers' bidding. By permitting' em­ over a period of about 2 months. And I have observed that ployee appeals from certification, an easy method of de­ while the gentleman from Indiana is somewhat peaceable in ·laying his duty to bargain and an easy opportunity of the matter of national affairs, he is very militant, may I say . weakening a bona fide Union would be presented to an· em­ to the House, in interrogating witnesses and going to the ployer. very bottom of all appropriation matters submitted to the Particularly in view of the availability of complete court Treasury-Post Office Subcommittee. I cannot too warmly 'review if there is a final order based on certification, and commend the patriotism and industriousness of the ranking 1 also in view of the fact that certification in itself is an order minority member [Mr. TABER], as well as other members of that binds no one at all, the value of permitting immediate the subcommittee. This bill, being the first under our sub­ . appeals is not apparent. The existing procedure, adopted committee which has been brought to the House during my by Congress after careful consideration, fully protects the in­ short time on the committee, has been somewhat interesting terest of employees and employers insofar as is consistent to me from several viewpoints. , with the protection of the paramou~t interests of the pub­ It may be noted that in the Federal service we now have lic in maintaining industrial peace by efficient and speedy about 917,000 employees. This bill makes appropriation for determination of the issues which pave the way toward col- more than one-third of all of the employees of the Federal lective bargaining. · Government. We have in the civil service at this time about Inquiry was made by me to the National Labor Relations 562,000 people under the so-called merit system. Of that Board as to the construction of section 10, paragraph (f), in number, in this bill we make an appropriation to pay the connection with whether or not the employee has the right salaries of 58 percent of those 562,000 employees. Those who of appeal from the final order of the Board. The reply of are favorable to the merit system under the civil service ought Charles Fahy, general counsel of the Board, is very enlighten­ to take consolation in the fact that so large a part of our ing on this subject. I quote Mr. Fahy's letter to me: revenue is devoted to the payment of civil-service employees. MY DEAR CONGRESSMAN O'CONNOR: I think there is no doubt that Of our 285,000 employees in the postal system, all but about you are entirely correct in the conclusion that the right of review 5,000 are under the merit system. More than 40,000 of the · of final orders of the Board in complaint cases is not limited 68,000 employees of the Treasury Department are under the to employers but includes labor organizations and employees, under the provisions of section 10 (f) providing "Any person aggrieved by so-called civil-service merit system. a final order of the Board granting or denying in whole or in part The postal system and the activities of the Treasury De­ the relief sought may obtain a review of such order in any circuit partment are indispensable to our modern-day life. The sus­ court of appeals in the United States." A recent illustration is the case of Consolidated Edison Co., et al. v. National Labor Relations pension of these activities would within a few hours create Board (decided by the Supreme Court of the United States December· chaos in every part of the Nation. It is therefore, of course, 5, 1938). In this case a labor organization petitioned the circuit necessary to have the men and the money to carry on these court of appeals for review of an order of the Board affecting con­ functions. t.racts to which the labor organizations have petitioned under s~c­ tion 10 (f) as a person aggrieved, i. e., National ll!otor Bearing Co., A great amount of money is necessary for these depart­ et al. v. National Labor Relations Board, now pending in the United ments. Realizing that throughout the country there are_ States Circuit Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. The Board many unemployed and underpaid people, and bearing·in mind has never attempted to construe the statute so as to prevent such review. the financial condition·of the Government, we sought to effect Of course, the question whether or not a person is aggrieved by every possible economy. Even at that, we are recommending an order is subject to the principles of law applicable to -the facts the appropriation of a huge amount of money for the activi­ of the case; but assuming that the party claiming to be aggrieved has sufficient interest in the order, and the order is one that is ties of the Treasury and Post Office Departments. reviewable by the courts, the statutory provision is no more limited Of course, in appropriating some $790,000,000 for the Postal to employers than to employees in labor organizations. In addition System we realize that we get back in revenue all but about to the cases referred to above and others that might be mentioned, the circuit courts have also in several cases permitted employees to 7 percent of that money; but this biil, as the -chairman has intervene in the court proceedings even though they had not inter­ already explained, carries an appropriation of $1,700,000,000 vened before the Boru·d. for both Departments. It will be noted from the report that CHARLES FAHY, General Counsel. permanent appropriations, such as money for the carry [Applause.] . charge on our public debt, and so forth, all for the Treasury 1872 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE· FEBRUARY 24 Department, amount to more than $3,000,000,000. So, actu­ the act of August 25, 1937, I call to the gentleman's attention ally, the bill before us calls for a total appropriation of more that the language in that act provides for the construction of than $4,700,000,000. That sum is equivalent to about four­ a Federal post office in each congressional district every 3 fifths of all Federal revenues last year. Someone has face­ years, instead of every 1 year. That is the way this money tiously remarked that we might pass this bill and go home, is going to be used and that is the policy that the Post Office because this carries all the money that we have. Department is carrying out, and for that reason the gentle­ I wanted to make particular reference to some items car­ man from Mississippi [Mr. CoLLINS] and myself tried to amend ried in the bill in which I think some gentlemen have a special that act by striking out the word "three" and inserting the interest. The gentleman from Montana [Mr. O'CoNNOR] word "one"; but we did not receive approval of that amend­ made some reference awhile ago to the public-buildings pro­ ment. The result of that is that in my own district it would gram. All Members are naturally interested in knowing take 54 years, carrying out this policy, to give to the smaller whether or not they are going to get a new Federal building towns referred to by the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. in their districts; and Members understand that most con­ ZIMMERMAN] any post-office buildings. gressional districts, having an abundance of eligible towns, Mr. MAHON. I think I have yielded sufficiently to the have received a Federal building-post-office building---each gentleman. For the past 4 years we have provided for one year during the past 4 years. In 1937 we authorized an ap­ Federal building each year in each district, as a rule. If the propriation for post-office buildings, and so forth, of about gentleman has 54 eligible towns in his district-- $70,000,000, and in 1938 we authorized an appropriation of Mr. O'CONNOR. No; 18 eligible towns. $60,000,000, making a total of about $130,000,000, and it was Mr. MAHON. It would take 54 years under the program the purpose of Congress that out of the $130,000,000 we have that has been followed in the past 4 years to supply 54 Fed­ two buildings for each congressional district over a 3-year eral buildings for the gentleman. Having only 18 eligible period. I think the Members of the House ought to under­ towns, at the rate of 1 building a year, or 2 buildings every stand that while we are appropriating some $30,000,000 in 3 years, it would not take 54 years to supply the needs of his this bill for Federal buildings, it does not mean that we will district. I will say to the gentleman that there are a hun­ get an additional building for our district during 1939. dred towns in Texas, some 8 or 10 in my own congressional Mr. ZIMMERMAN. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman district, that are eligible fpr Federal buildings. I would like yield? to see money appropriated to build those buildings, but addi­ Mr. MAHON. Yes. tional authorizations are going to be necessary. Mr. ZIMMERMAN. For what purpose will the $130,000,- Now, there is another matter to which I would like to refer. 000 be expended if not in post-office buildings in the various Mr. POAGE. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? districts? Mr. MAHON. I yield to the distinguished gentleman from Mr. MAHON. We have authorized since 1937, $130,000,000 Texas. for public buildings. When we appropriate this $30,000,000, Mr. POAGE. Has the gentleman had any complaints we will have appropriated $89,000,000 of the $130,000,000; and about building Federal buildings in any of these towns? I the $130,000,000 is required to give approximately, as I under­ have listened to the newspaper clatter in Washington that stand it, two Federal buildings for each congressional district, they did not want the Government buildings in Washington where the requirements can be met, during the 3-year period because we were not paying taxes on them, and they feel that beginning in 1937. Last year, after the appropriation, the the Federal Government should pay taxes on every bUilding gentleman will recall that we were called upon, some of us, they build. Has the gentleman had any such complaints as to recommend the places in our districts where the buildings that from the rural districts? were to be constructed. Mr. MAHON. I have not heard of any, but if the gentle­ Mr. ZIMMERMAN. I would like to ask a further ques­ man will refer to these hearings he will find that the Post tion. I take it that the purpose is to construct these public Office Department very emphatically maintains that it is buildings in large cities, as has been the practice in years cheaper to rent quarters than it is to build post-office build­ past, and let the country towns that have had no benefit or ings and maintain them. I would like to say, however, that convenience of public buildings go as they have in the past. too often we are spending too much money on these build-· Is that true? ings, whereas we could provide some ten or fifteen or twenty Mr. MAHON. I think the gentleman knows that in the thousand dollar postal facilities, perhaps even in the well­ distribution of Federal buildings they have been fairly equita­ established third-class-office towns. bly distributed among the various sections of the country. Mr. HEALEY. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? At least that has been true since my first election to Congress Mr. MAHON. I yield. in 1934. I am not familiar with the public-building program prior to that time. Mr. HEALEY. With reference to the question just pro­ Mr. ZIMMERMAN. Bnt the gentleman will admit that pounded by the gentleman from Texas, I represent a dis­ the large cities have received the lion's share and that the trict composed of five suburban cities. We now have a Gov­ country distrtcts have been left until the other districts have ernment post office in each of those cities. The people in been amply served. my district have been very happy indeed to have the build­ Mr. MAHON. I would not at all agree to the statement of ings, and they have made no complaints whatsoever on the the gentleman in that regard. I think we ought to have ground that they were not taxable property. They are glad additional buildings this year, but our approach to that is not to have the facilities. by increasing this $30,000,000 in this bill, or through any Mr. MAHON. I thank the gentleman. May I say that in amendment that might be o:tiered to this bill, but by other the large agricultural district which I represent we have legislation which would authorize a larger public-building six Federal buildings, and a contract will be let for another program. I compliment my good friend from Missouri for in the near future. his zeal in behalf of the rural districts. I, too, represent an Mr. KELLER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? agricultural and not a city district. Mr. MAHON. I yield. Perhaps I should make it clear that the $30,000,000 carried Mr. KELLER. The remark that the gentleman just made in this bill for public buildings will not provide for any new that the Post Office Department claims it is cheaper to rent buildings. It merely provides for those buildings which have buildings than it is to build them is true, but the class of already been selected and designated for construction. buildings you get is not only not comparable at all but are Mr. O'CONNOR. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? often a disgrace to the Post Office Department, which rents Mr. MAHON. I will be glad to yield to the gentleman. them. Mr. O'CONNOR. In the letter to which I referred, written Mr. MAHON. The gentleman has presented a very correct by Mr. Farley, he points out that under the authorizations position there. contained in the acts of August 25, 1937, and June 21, 1938, Mr. GARRET!'. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? allotments have been made for 728 projects. Referring to- Mr. MAHON. I yield. 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 1873 Mr. GARRE'IT. Does not the gentleman feel that by remembered that during the 1920's it was hard to get people to spending something like one-third or one-half the amount bid on these routes; men ordinarily were getting such good that is now being spent on Federal buildings, in towns with pay they did not care to bid on them; but now, with some six a population of from three to five thousand, we could build or ten million people unemployed and wanting these star buildings in keeping with the other buildings in those towns routes and bidding on them when they do not know much and enable us to have about three where we now have one, about the real cost of operating the route, they bid hopelessly or probably two where we now have one Federal building? low; and the Post Office Department, notwithstanding its Mr. MAHON. thank the gentleman for his contribution. knowledge of that fact, is nevertheless compelled to let the I do not know that you could build them for five or six lowest bidder have the contract. The gentleman from Texas thousand dollars. [Mr. POAGE] was telling me that he knows of a man in his Mr. GARRE'IT. No. I say in towns with a population of district who is carrying the mail 90 miles a day for $80 a from three to five thousand. month. Bear in mind that this is substantially his only pay~ Mr. MAHON. Oh, yes. I think the gentleman is correct. and out of this $80 he must provide all the expense incident I know the gentleman has been working along that line for to owning and operating his car. The average star carrier some time and I think that is a sound policy. gets 4.11 cents per mile for carrying the mail in Texas. The Mr. DONDERO. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? average for the Nation is about 6% cents. The average per­ Mr. MAHON. I yield. mile pay of the star carriers in 1925 was 13% cents. I know Mr. DONDERO. I just called the Post Office Department of many cases of great hardship and injustice in the star­ to inquire whether or not the first item of $30,000,000, on route service. The injustice should have been corrected page 51 of the bill, represents one post-office building in each years ago. Remedial legislation certainly should be passed at congressional district this year. I may not have heard the this session. gentleman's explanation of that. Would he mind telling me? Mr. POAGE. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? Mr. MAHON. I have just explained that it takes about Mr. MAHON. I yield. $60,000,000 to construct a post-office building in each district Mr. POAGE. Let me also call attention to the fact that each year. The $30,000,000 carried in the bill is just to carry the average star-route carrier in our section makes a box­ on the 3-year program of two buildings for each congressional to-box delivery exactly as the rural carrier does. The theory district for the 3-year period. of the star-route carrier is that he takes the mail from one Mr. DONDERO. And those buildings have already been point to another, but in actual practice he makes box-to-box allocated. deliveries also. Mr. MAHON. In almost every case. Mr. MAHON. That is the fact, the majority of star-route Another matter to which I wish to call attention and to carriers now actually make box deliveries. which ·consideration should be given is that of the star-route Mr. POAGE. And may I ask the gentleman one other carrier. The star-route carrier is shamefully underpaid. question? Mr. KELLER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? Mr. MAHON. Certainly, Mr. MAHON. I yield. Mr. POAGE. Is it not a fact that a star-route carrier to Mr. KELLER. Is the gentleman now leaving the building­ retain his contract, no matter how low that contract is, must program feature? underbid himself for the simple reason that everybody in the Mr. MAHON. Yes. county knows what he has got it for? If he has it for $60 a Mr. KELLER. Will the gentleman yield to permit me to month this year he knows somebody else will bid $55 a month, make an observation regarding it? and if he expects to hold it he will have to bid $50 himself. Mr. MAHON. With pleasure. Mr. MAHON. Yes. Mr. KElLER. The gentleman from Texas makes a sug­ Mr. POAGE. He has got to underbid his own low bid in gestion which, while it might be entirely practical, might order to hold it. be disastrous in the long run. It has been the experience Mr. MAHON. The gentleman has correctly stated the sit­ that where a high-class building is put in a town, of a type uation. The only way that situation can be met is for the better than the ordinary buildings in the town, it encourages legislative Committee on the Post Office and Post Roads to the building of better buildings in that locality, bring in corrective legislation. They did bring in such legis­ Mr. MAHON. I thank the gentleman. lation 2 years ago. It passed the Congress, but the President As I was about to say, the star-route carrier is shamefully underpaid. It is no fault of the administration of the star­ vetoed it. Last year I appeared before a subcommittee of route law that he is shamefully underpaid, but it is due to the Post Office and Post Roads Committee of the House in the nature of the law itself. The law itself brings about this behalf of star-carrier legislation. The committee has had shameful discrimination against the star-route carrier. In considerable hearings on the subject for many years. I want to make it clear that I am not criticizing the great Commit­ 1925 the star-route carriers were carrying the mail 90,000,000 tee on the Post Office and Post Roads. I know they have been miles a year. In 1938 the star-route carriers carried the mails 171,000,000 miles; and they carried it more than 171,- working on the matter; that they know about the injustices 000,000 miles this past year for less money than they carried of the system. I do believe that the great majority of the it 90,000,000 miles in 1925. In other words, the star-route Members of the House and Senate are in favor of a square carrier for carrying the mail 90,000,000 miles in 1925 received deal for the star carrier, and that if the Post Office and Post compensation in the sum of $12,000,000, but in 1938 for car­ Roads Committee will bring out a reasonable bill on the sub­ rying the mail 171,000,000 miles he will perform this service ject the legislation will be passed. for about $11,500,000. Mr. GARRETT. Will the gentleman yield? [Here the gavel fell.l Mr. MAHON. I yield to the gentleman from Texas. Mr. LUDLOW. Mr. Chairman, I yield 5 additional min­ Mr. GARRE'IT. Does not the gentleman feel the Post utes to the gentleman from Texas. Office Department should not be required to accept the lowest Mr. GEYER of California. Mr. Chairman, will the gen­ responsible bid, as it is termed? Does not the gentleman tleman yield? think it ought to have more latitude in passing upon these Mr. MAHON. I yield. matters? Mr. GEYER of california. Does not the star-route carrier Mr. MAHON. I think the gentleman is correct. The star­ secure his route by competitive bidding? route carrier wants something approaching reasonable pay to Mr. MAHON. He does. support himself and family. He is not advocating a big Mr. GEYER of California. How would the gentleman rec­ salary. ommend that this condition be remedied? I had hoped to speak at some length regarding that pro­ Mr. MAHON. The legislative committee of the House on vision of the bill which has reference to the program of the the Post Office and Post Roads has been trying to work out a Federal land bank and land-bank commissioner. It will basis that would provide a fair standard of pay. It must be be recalled that we have reduced by previous legislation the 1874 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 24 legal rate of interest on these loans to 3% percent on land­ (1) Serves post offices and performs delivery and collec­ bank loans and 4 percent on land-bank commissioner loans. tion service to box patrons. However, my time has about expired, and I cannot undertake (2) Serves post offices but does not perform box delivery to do this. Of course, there are many other features of the and collection service. bill which might profitably be considered further. (3) Handles only restricted classes of mail and serves post Under leave to extend and revise my remarks, I wish to offices only. submit for the RECORD the following with further reference (4) Serves post offices and provides rural-delivery features to the star-route carrier problem under discussion. The fol­ to box patrons. • lowing table will reveal the increases in the number of routes, (5) Performs box delivery and collection service to patrons the length and annual mileage of the routes, and the de­ but does not serve any post offices. creases in the annual cost and the cost per mile in the period (6) Provides rural-delivery features to box patrons but from 1925 to the present. does not serve any post offices. Data on star-route service (7) Known to be operated by bus or transit companies, handling all classes of mail. Length Cost per (8) Known to be operated by bus or transit companies, Fiscal year Number Annual .Annual cost mile of routes (miles) ~eage (eents) handling only restricted classes of mail. It is in regard to those classes wherein box delivery is made to patrons along the star route, and wherein the princi­ $12, 145,635.95 13.37 19261925_~------______10,906 164,209.19 90, 869, 158. 35 10,991 169,258.34 94,059, 178.69 12, 364, 569. 00 13.15 pal reason for the existence of the carrier is the delivery of 1927------11,215 179,945.44 102, 005, 346. 82 12, 555, 540. 20 12.31 the mail to the offices and the boxes served, that I feel 1928 ______190,960. 59 109, 432, 321. 20 13, 120, 534. 66 11.99 1929 ______11,472 11,695 202,007.34 117,839,958.00 13, 538, 521. 24 11.49 special consideration should be given by the Committee on the 1930 ______124,457,065. 23 13, 837, 885. 43 11.12 1931 ______11,788 209,573.29 Post Office and Post Roads looking toward appropriate legis­ 12,089 226,370.32 136, 693, 73fi. 41 14, 194, 291. 54 10.38 1932 ______14, 496, 000. 49 9.87 lation which would place the carriers involved on a sound and 1933 ______12,443 239,714.24 146, 875, 460. 69 12,596 248,295.36 153, 823, 016. 33 14, 081, 671. 05 9.17 fair living wage and at the same time insure to the patrons 19:-\4 ______12,237 251,571.53 156, 699, 298. 03 12,787,984.72 8.16 1935 ______158, 338, 768. 25 11, 250, 735. 46 7.10 who are served along the route, and the offices that are 1936 ______11,853 251,983. H 11,663 256,863.96 161, 167, 805. 87 10, 779, 346. 71 6.69 served, an improved service; sound and efficient in its method 1937------1938 ______11,572 261,689. 00 164, 080, 006. 00 10, 775, 339. 00 6.52 11,393 263,127.00 171, 769, 115. 00 10, 872, 985. 00 6.33 of operation .. In regard to the situation of those star routes on which no box deliveries are made, I want to say frankly A few days ago I received a letter from a friend of mine who that I am not familiar with any problems of the carriers or is a patron of a star route in my district, which I believe pre­ the Department, and do not at this time speak in regard to sents this problem in a representative way, not only from the them. Without appropriate legislation designed to correct standpoint of the star-route carrier, but also from the stand­ the deficiencies in the present system of competitive bidding, point of the patron of the service which results from this the Post Office Department is bound under the law to go on system of competitive bidding. That letter was from Mr. accepting the lowest bid without any special consideration to Robert N. Wagener, of Forsan, Tex., proprietor of the Wagener the efficiency of the service or the living conditions of the Engineering & Equipment Co., and I herewith submit it men who render that service. verbatim for the REcoRD: Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 20 minutes to the gentleman from Michigan [Mr. HoFFMAN]. WAGENER ENGINEERING & EQUIPMENT CO., Forsan, Tex., February 7, 1939. Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman, it is unfortunate that on Hon. GEORGE MAHoN, M. C., the 7th day of February, when the gentleman from Virginia Washington, D. C. [Mr. WooDRUM] was speaking and I asked a question which DEAR MR. MAHON: I wish to call your attention to the viciousness and consequent poor service due to the contract system on star was answered by the gentleman from Montana [Mr. O'CoN­ mail routes. NOR], I did not ask to have the transcript sent over to my The men who bid on these routes have only limited resources and office for correction. It was a week or two after the remarks in general do not realize the cost of operating a car or light truck. were made on the floor and had been printed in the United In the case of Mr. S. Grubaugh, who has the route through Forsan to Sterling City, I find that his annual contract calls for $1,595.72. States News that the error was called to my attention, and The route mileage is 131 miles per day and 313 days per annum. I discovered -the official reporters had inserted the word A light truck cannot be operated for less than 4 cents per mile. "employer" in place of the word "employee." I assume the By simple calculation we find that his annual cost of operating this truck is $1,640.12. responsibility for being misunderstood by the reporter rather We can conclude that this man is working for the United States than charge that he was in error. Government for less than nothing. In order to continue he must Mr. Chairman, anyone reading the act knows that the pick up freight for Forsan and Sterling City. This delays the mail employer has the right to appeal after the Board has made ·here. The east-bound train arrives at Big Spring at 7:40 a. m., the west-bound at 7: 10 a. m.. With only the duties of a mail route a final order. I know too, as he stated, that one section of we would have the mail here at 9 a. m. Instead, the average time the law states that any "person aggrieved" by an order of of his arrival is 10: 45 a. m. the Board may appeal. I know also that the Supreme Court He starts to work at 7:30, leaves Forsan on his return route at of the United States in the case of National Labor Relations 5 p. m., and checks out at the !Big Spring post office about 5: 45. His total working hours are 6llf2 hours per week. You can readily Board v. . Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation (301 U. s. 1), understand that we have here a violation of the minimum wage made the following statement: and hour law by the United States Government, at least in effect. Any person aggrieved by a final order of the Board may obtain Moreover this man does not have the advantage of a pension as a a review in the designated courts with the same procedure as in Government employee or of the Social Security Act. the case of an application by the Board for the enforcement of We have here a third-class post office and are entitled to 7-day its order. mail service instead of 6. Also we should have at least two mail deliveries per day instead of one. A layman reading this statute would assume that any per­ A number of the oil companies here, in order to get their mail son aggrieved, whether he be employer, an employee, or a early, must have the expense every day of a 50-mile round trip to Big Spring and about 2 hours of one man's time. union, might appeal, but if I read the act correctly, and if I These men should be put on civil service at a decent wage and read the decisions of the National Labor Relations Board, the the cars or trucks furnished by the Government. There are three circuit court of appeals, and the Supreme Court correctly, other star routes out of Big Spring and the situation in each case !s almost as bad as that of the example given. it has never been held that an employee had the right to Please do what you can to correct this unfairness. appeal in a representation case nor in a complaint case un­ Kindest personal regards. less he had been, in the discretion of the Board or court, Respectfully submitted. permitted to intervene. RoB'T. N. WAGENER. Mr. O'CONNOR. Will the gentleman yield? The Post Office Department has classified the types of Mr. HOFFMAN. I yield to the gentleman from Montana. services rendered by star routes into eight distinct classes, Mr. O'CONNOR. If the gentleman will read the CoN- as follows: GRESSIONAL RECORD tomorrow morning, he will find that I 1939 CONGRESSIONAL -RECORD-HOUSE 1875 point out a case decided by the Supreme Court of the United by the Board; in other words, to cease and desist ignoring the States, in which the opinion was written by Justice Hughes, certificate made by the Board. to the effect that an employee, the Labor Board, or a labor Mr. HOFFMAN. That may be true so far and in the case organization may have the right to intervene and in con­ that the gentleman has cited, but what right of appeal have nection with this decision it is clearly pointed out by Justice the employees who wish to be represented by group B when Hughes that the employee had the right to appeal in any the Board has designated group A as the representative for complaint case. collective bargaining and the employer complies with the Mr. HOFFMAN. 'What about a representation case? Board's order? Mr. O'CONNOR. The gentleman is now talking about · Or assume that, because of the intervention of the Board, something else. If the gentleman had not added "complaint it has brought about one of those so-called settlements and cases" to his challenge, I do not think I would have answered the company, the Board, and Union A have all agreed that him. The difference between a representation case and a Union A shall be the bargaining agent. Where is the provi­ complaint is that a representation c&.se is simply an investiga­ s'ion in the statute that gives the ·members of group B the tion to find out who has the right to represent the union. right to appeal to the court because they feel themselves ag- . Mr. HOFFMAN. Yes. I am sure we all appreciate and grieved? In the case I have cited· there is no final order. thank the gentleman for· his exposition or commentary on Group A, the employer, and the Board have all agreed outside the law. and off the record that A shall be the bargaining agent. Even Mr. O'CONNOR. For the purpose of bargaining collec­ though group B represents 50,' 60, or 80 percent of the em­ tively. It issues a certificate. That is not a decision of the ployees, where is their remedy under this statute? Board at all, and it is not a decision from which an appeal Let us say that these two gentlemen over here want to be could be taken. represented by Union B. The gentleman from Montana and Mr. HOFFMAN. Do not take too much time. I appreciate I want to be represented by Union A. Along ·comes the the gentleman's statements and I do not have any particular Board and says that the bargaining agent is the agent selected quarrel with the gentleman on that. by Union B. Now, you tell me where in the law, where in a Mr. O'CONNOR. A complaint case is a case in which a decision, where in a ruling of the Board, it is stated that decision is rendered after a complaint has been filed, an members of the A Union, the employees, the men who work answer has been filed, the issues joined and a trial is had. in the·factory and Who belong to Union A, and who-are n'ot Then both employee· and employer have the right to appeal. permitted to select a bargaining agent, can appeal to any· · Mr. HOFFMAN. Will the gentleman get more time for court? · me from his side? He is using my ·time to explain matters Mr. O'CONNOR. Now the gentleman is getting right. we all understand and do not question. Mr. HOFFMAN. I have been ·right all the time. Mr. O'CONNOR. I will get him 5 minutes. . Mr. O'CONNOR. Oh no; that is where the gentleman is Mr. HOFFMAN. A complaint case can only arise, if I wrong. This law covers two categories of cases, representa-_ read the law correctly, where an employer is involved. A tion and complaint cases. Does the gentleman want to know representation case arises, as I think the gentleman stated, the reason now-- . . when the Board or the examiner is called upon or assumes Mr. HOFFMAN. No; I want the gentleman to tell me where to decide who shall be selected and certified as the bargain­ in the law it is stated that the employee, the man who works ing agent. in the factory, can, when a rival union has been recognized Mr. O'CONNOR. That is correct. as the bargaining agency by the Board and the employer. Mr. HOFFMAN. What is more vital to the employee, the appeal to the court. That is what I want to know. man who works in the factory, than the question as to who shall represent him, whether he shall be represented by Mr. O'CONNOR. Not in a representation case. group A or group B? When once the Board or the examiner Mr. liOFFMAN. That is all I want to know, and I call makes a decision that group A is to represent me, a worker, the gentleman's attention to the decision of the Circuit have I the right of appeal to the courts? Court of Appeals of the Third Circuit, which he will find reported in Ninety-sixth Federal (2d) 875, where that court Mr. O'CONNOR. Get this poin~ Mr. HOFFMAN. Have I that right? Answer that ques­ held in no unmistakable terms tnat when the Board certified tion. That is the point at issue in all this discussion. Tell that one union was the exclusive representative of the em­ me, can I appeal from the order or rule or whatever it be ployees for collective bargaining, such a certification was not a that advises me that union A shall represent me in collective "final order," was not an "order," and it was not reviewable. bargaining with my employer? and from it employees or other unions had no right of appeal. Mr. O'CONNOR. I got the gentleman 5 minutes, so I hope The court, ignoring the practical situation, said that until he will yield me 1 minute. a "final order is made, the party js not injured and cannot Mr. HOFFMAN. Do not use 10 minutes. be heard to complain." That statement, of course, ignores Mr. O'CONNOR. The Board makes an investigation. the fact that, after one union has been certifiE:d, it is matter Mr. HOFFMAN. The gentleman is talking about a repre­ of common knowledge that a rival union loses its members, sentation case. is unable to collect its dues, and that an employer will not Mr. O'CONNOR. Yes. It finds that such-and-such a barga-in with it. union has the right to represent the employees, or that John It ignores the fact that after such a certification has been Smith has the right to represent these employees. And so made the Board may delay proceedings for a month or a certifies. year or for a term of years, and during all that time. not Mr. HOFFMAN. Yes. only the employer, but the employee and the rival union has Mr. O'CONNOR. The only occasion on which a contro­ no remedy. versy can arise is where the employer refuses to recognize Mr. O'CONNOR. The gentleman included in his chal­ that representation. lenge not only representation cases but complaint cases, and Mr. HOFFMAN. Oh, no. If 40 or 60 percent of the workers that is where the gentleman made his mistake. do not wish to be represented by the group certified by the Mr. HOFFMAN. Let me tell the gentleman there is just Board there may be, there often has been, a controversy which one complaint case I have been able to find, and the gentle­ closed the factory. man has that $3,000,000 force down there at his disposal. Mr. O'CONNOR. That is the only case in which it can Mr. O'CONNOR. No; I have not. arise. The point is that the employer proceeds to ignore Mr. HOFFMAN. Have them point out to me a complain~ the certification of the Board, and then is when a decision case where an employee has been able to get into court may come in. For instance, the employee can then proceed where a final order has not been made except in this case to compel the employer ~o cor~ply with the · selection made of Edward P. Harris against National Labor Relations Board. 1876 . CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE · FEBRUARY 24 which is now pending before the Supreme Court on an appli­ In support of his contention that the words "any person cation for a writ of certiorari. The only way they got into aggrieved" include an employee, the gentleman from Mon­ court in that case was because the Board in that particular tana [Mr. O'CoNNOR] quotes a letter written by Charles Fahy, ease permitted them to intervene originally, which the Board general counsel of the National Labor Relations Board, which, did not need to do. So much for that. among other things, states: If I understood the gentleman from Montana [Mr. O'CoN­ I think there is no doubt that you are entirely correct in the NOR] correctly, he concedes that, in a representation case, conclusion that the right of review of final orders of the Board in an employee cannot appeal from a decision of the Board complaint cases is not limited to employers, but includes labor organizations and employees under the provisions of section 10 (f), :which may affect him adversely, but he contends that providing • • •. the words, "any person aggrieved by a final order of the Board • • • may obtain ·a review of such order in any And so forth. circuit court of appeals of the United States," found in sub­ The Board has never attempted to construe the statute so as to prevent such review. · division (f) of section 10, gives an employee the right to ap­ peal in any complaint case. I do not know the date of the letter, but I hold in my hand When, on February 17, page 1546 of the REcoRD, I made the the record in the case of Edward P. Harris, as president of correction in tbe question asked of the gentleman on the 7th of the Calcocraft, petitioner, against National Labor Relations February, I repeated my question and asked him "to point Board, on petition for a writ of certiorart to the United states out that provision of the Labor Act which gives the employee Circuit Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit, in which I the right to appeal from a decision of the Board in a repre­ find ~l}at Mr. Fa~y, under date of Augugt 18, 1938, in a· case sentation case or in any complaint case where the employer then ~nding in the United States Circuit Court of Appeals, acquiesces in the order of the Board." Third Circuit, No. 6854, filed a motion with the clerk of the The provision of the act just quoted is evidently the statu­ third circuit, i~ which, among other things, he stated: tory provision upon which the gentleman relies for such right The Board does not, by anything said or implied in this petition, : of appeal. Unfortunately for his argument, it does not follow admit that Calcocraft is a "person aggrieved" within the meaning that the words, "any person aggrieved," mean an employee. of section 10 (f) of the act· and has standing to file a petition to If reference is made to preceding paragraphs of section 10, review the order of the Board. it will be found that the word "person,'' as previously used in Apparently, Mr. Fahy has changed his mind as to the this section, refers only to an employer, not to an employee. meaning of "person aggrieved" some' time between the 18th For example, in subdivision (a) , we find the word "person" day of August i9.38 and the date of his letter to the gentle­ 1 and as there used, it can mean only an employer. man from Montana [Mr. O'CoNNOR]. Again, in subdivision (b) , unless the word "person" there The gentleman from.Montana [Mr. O'CoNNoR] also cited­ ' refers to an employer, it is meaningless. And again in the in support of his contention that an employee may appeal same subdivision (b), it is provided that "the person so com­ from an order or decision of the Board-two statements by plained of," and so forth. Here again the employer is meant. Mr. .Justice Hughes in the case to which reference was just In fact, Chief Justice Hughes, in the very case referred to tnade. · · by the gentleman from Montana [Mr. O'CoNNoR], Consoli­ The first quotation, wh,ich is as follows-- . dated Edison Co. v. National Labor Relations Board (59 S. C. The companies .petitioned the circuit court of · appeals to set . R., at p. 219, par. 25), said that the Board contended "that aside the order and a petition for the same purpose was presented only employers can be so charged"-with an unfair labor by the brotherhood and its locals. These labor organizations had practice. · not been parties to the proceeding before the Board but intervened in the circuit court of appeals as parties aggrieved by the invalida­ In subdivision (c) of this section the words are, "If, upon all tion of their contracts- the testimony taken, .the Board shall be of the opinion that any person named in the complaint,'' and so forth. Here Is taken from page 212 and is a statement of the facts, as again the word "person" means employ~r. not employee, for distinguished from the opinion of Mr. Justice Hughes. a complaint cannot, under the act, be filed against an The second quotation, so much as I can remember of it employee. without having taken notes when the gentleman from Mon­ Still farther down in subdivision (c) there is a provision tana [Mr. O'CoNNOR] was speaking, is from that part of the that "Such order may further require such person to make opinion found on page 219, where it is said: reports from time to time, showing the extent to which it has The Board urges further that the unions have availed themselves complied with the order." Inasmuch as the Board has no of the opportunity to petition for review of the Board's order in the authority to make an order against the employee, again the circuit court of appeals, and that due process does not require an opportunity to be heard before judgment, if defenses may be pre~ word must be construed as meaning employer. sented upon appeal. • • • But this rule assumes that the appel~ Then subdivisions (d) and (e) have reference to the setting late review does afford opportunity to present all available defenses aside of an order made by the Board and the right of the including lack of proper notice to justify the judgment or order Board to petition the court for enforcement of its order. complained of. We then come to subdivision (f), containing the words From the reading of the decision as reported, it appears which. the gentleman argues gives an employee the right of that certain contracts which the employer had with the appeal. As 'I have pointed out, the words "any person ag­ International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers and its local grieved," construed in the light of the other provisions of the unions were by the Board ordered to be disregarded and that law, do not refer to an employee. · the brotherhood either petitioned the circuit court for the If, for the sake of the argument, it be admitted that they setting aside of that order, although it had not been made a do refer to an employee, the gentleman's argument is no party in prior proceedings, or, when the Board asked that answer to my contention that the employee is at the mercy of the order be enforced, it intervened and so became a party the Board, for no one has a right to ap:Peal untif a final order to the proceedings. has been made, and even when a final order has been made, In any event, the Board had made a final order and the an employer may disregard it until the Board petitions the case does not decide the question as to whether an employee circuit court of appeals for an enforcing order. may, as a matter of right, appeal frotn a decision of the Many orders, rules, or decisions, or whatever you may wish Board where he has not been made a party prior to the to call them, can be made in complaint cases before a ftnat making of the final order. order is made and those rules, decisions, or orders, even If it be assumed that, upon the making of a final order, though they are not final, can work hardship to-yes, can an employee has the right of appeal, it still leaves him at the destroy-the opportunity of the individual employee to work mercy of the Board in all representation cases and in all without paying tribute or may destroy the independent union complaint cases where no firial orders are made and in all to which he belongs, by giVing aid a.nd encouragement to a those cases where the Board, a rival union, and the employer rival organization. by agreetnent exclude hiin or discriminate against him. 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--· HOUSE 1877

. Mr. O'CONNOR. The question of whether or _not a man is questions froin the floor, · with ha~ng made the following aggrieved is a question of fact, not a question of law. statements: Mr. HOFFMAN. Yes; but the Board did not admit in the I'll tell you frankly, when we go into a hearing the employer .Calcocraft case that an employee can be "a person aggrieved." hasn't got a chance. The act is bad. Its interpretation by the Board is worse. Let me repeat that statement: A CONFESSION OF GUILT-AN ADMISSION THAT FAIR PLAY, COMMON DE­ I'll tell you frankly, when we go into a hearing the employer CENCY, JUSTICE, AND LAW ARE DISREGARDED BY THE NATIONAL LABOR hasn't got a chance. RELATIONS BOARD On the floor of this House many times has your attention Here is a man charged under the law with the duty of been called by me to the necessity for the amendment of the administering the law; a man whose duty it is to hold fair, 'National Labor Relations Act, if employees are to enjoy the unbiased hearings, meting out justice to.all; who quite frankly right of collective bargaining through representatives of their admits that, when a hearing is held, the employer "hasn't ·own choosing; if employers are to be permitted to carry on got a chance." their business, give jobs to -the unemployed, and do their part And listen to this statement of this same man, Nylander: toward assisting in national recovery. I hope the C. I. 0. and the A. F. of L. never do get together. So far, the majority has made no attempt, at least in the Each can serve a good purpose by exposing the stuffed shirts in open, to mitigate these evils; nor has the minority as an the other organization. organization made the slightest effort toward the amendment Here on the floor of this House, we have heard the act of that unfair law or the abolition Qf the vicious practices and its administration condemned because of its. unfairness . carried on by the Board, its examiners, attorneys, and agents. and its arbitrary action. The American Federation of Labor has condemned the The President of the United States himself and other mem­ Board as being biased, unfair, and active in its efforts to aid bers of his official family have bitterly denounced the arbi- , , the C. I. 0., a rival organization. trary and unfair acts on the part of Hitler and Mussolini . . Many individuals, many organizations of independent em­ Never in their most unfair moments did those two men go ployees, hundreds of thousands of individual workers, many further to impose their will than this director of the National employers, and many organizations composed of employers Labor Relati9ns Board says it is his practice to go in hearings. have offered proof demonstrating that the law is unfair, that When the employer is charged with an unfair labor prac­ , it is being improperly administered, and have demanded that tice this director of the Board says "the employer hasn't got it be amended. · a chance." This is "free" America. Yet Congress rem~ins d~af to the appeals of these working­ Nor is there any doubt but that Dr. Nylander believes that men, of these employers who would decrease to a large extent the Board intends to continue that unlawful, that un-Amer­ the burden of unemployment now resting upon all of us, if ican course, for he says, and I quote: Congress would listen to their appeal for aid. Unless they amend the act, we will soon get to the rest of the There is little reason for anyone to longer pretend that the employers whom we haven't yet been able to reach. act gives freedom of organization and bargaining power to Think over, if you will, in the quiet of your own home and . the employee. ·Joseph A. Padway, general counsel for the take up with your conscience, if you will, the meaning of this American Federation of Labor, on the 17th day of October statement made by Director Nylander and then decide ; 1938, arguing a case before the Supreme Court, made the whether we, sitting here as representatives of the people, can i statement, and I quote: longer submit to the injustice and the tyranny of the Na­ One would imagine that every employee, under section 7, has the tional Labor Relations Board. absolute right to freedom of choice in respect to representatives for the purpose of collective bargaining. Nothing can be further from Only yesterday and the day before we had a demonstration, · the truth.· to which reference was made by me on yesterday, as to how There is no longer arty excuse for us to close our eyes to the the failure of the Board to act brings unemployment and situation as it exists. Nor is there excuse for further delay on financial loss to thousands upon thousands of employees. our part. The Board has authority under the act to issue complaints, Congress passed this law. Congress enacted the provisions to order elections to select the agents for collective bargain­ under which the Board was created. Congress a week or two ing. In the motor industry in Michigan we have had almost ago appropriated some $3,000,000 so that the Board might continuous industrial strife for more than 2 years. carry on its activities. · Recently the officials of a C. I. 0. affiliate fell out, quarreled . Time and again have I stood ori the floor of this House and among themselves. Homer Martin represented one faction; called attention in general terms to the defects in the law and, Thomas represented another. By court action Martin se­ on more than one occasion, pointed to specific instances which cured the books of one of the locals. His faction elected its showed beyond argument its harmful effect and the unfair local officials. The other faction elected a different set of manner in which it was being administered. officials. If any Member doubts the statements which have been The company did not know with whom it might safely made, he has but to read the act and the decisions which bargain collectively, One group of union officials claimed the have been made under it. True, the -Supreme Court of the right to handle the records and collect and disburse the dues United States has declared the act to· be constitutional as taken from the workers. Another group claimed the same it has been interpreted in those particular cases which were right. before it. But never has the constitutionality of the act There was no . dispute between the company and its em­ been questioned on the ground that it deprived a worker of ployees. There was no dispute between the company and any his right to enter into a contract; of his right to work; of his union. There was no dispute between the C. I. 0. and the property without due process of law; or that it deprived him of A. F. of L. The dispute was between two groups of men, all his day in court. belonging to the U. A. W. A. Nevertheless, a strike which Passing by for the moment the question of the consti­ threw out of employment between 17,000 and 23,000 men took tutionality of the act from that standpoint, as conclusive place. proof that the act is unfair, that it is being administered Had the National Labor Relations Board back in January in an improper, un-Arilerican way, let me today offer, not of 1937 called and insisted upon an election, provided a secret the record of a particular case, not a general statement, but ballot, to enable the employees to choose their own repre­ the confession of Dr. Towne Nylander, director of the National sentatives for collective bargaining with the automobile in­ Labor Relations Board for southern California. dustry, all this trouble, or at least the most of it, might have In the Inglewood Daily News of California, under date of been avoided. February 7, 1937, we learn that Dr. Nylander made an address On the doorstep of the N. L. R. B. rests the responsibility for before the Inglewood Community Forum, and this newspaper the chaos now existing in Michigan; for some of the unem­ quotes him, in the course of that address or in answer to . ployment which has existed there during the past 2 years and 1878 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE FEBRUARY 24 for the failure of the motor industry to again lead us on the Mr. TABER. My understanding is that the amount au­ road toward prosperity. thorized does not include enough money to take care of . Is it not time, after all, that we just quit fooling around anything in that last column, which is a proposed limit of and either from that side-and you have control of the legis­ cost for projects not authorized to date. That is my under­ lation-or from this side, bring in some amendments? I have standing. offered two or three, but, of course, just belng a new Member Mr. DONDERO. Mr. Chairman, Will the gentleman yield? who is an old man, the amendments were not even considered. Mr. TABER. Yes. But is it not time that some of the gentlemen who know Mr. DONDERO. I just called Mr. Purdum, of the Post about this law, as does my friend from Montana [Mr. Office Department, and he confirms what the gentleman is O'CoNNoR], who knows all about it, who has had the advice saying, that it does not provide any money for new projects, of these attorneys in the Labor Department, should bring but only for projects already established or allotted. in a law protecting the employees? Mr. MICHENER. I have my own town in there and had Mr. O'CONNOR rose. that same information, but I did not know whether the com­ Mr. HOFFMAN. Oh, not now. Is it not time that some of mittee had made any changes at the request of the Depart­ you or your friends should bring in some amendment that ment. will give the employee the right to bargain collectively, that Mr. TABER. The committee has not attempted in this will keep him free from coercion on the part of an organizer, bill to make any blanket increase of authorizations. I am such as is the situation which now exists in Michigan and personally of the opinion that the Committee on Appropria­ which the people of Flint are trying to remedy by ordinance? tions should not attempt to bring in a blanket increase of What is the trouble up there? There were in Detroit 2 days authorizations to the House, and that it should be done by ago seventeen to twenty thousand men out of work, and why? the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds before there Because there is a dispute between the men who work and the is an embarkation upon an additional program to that now employer? Oh, no; there Is no argument between them. Is authorized. In my own opinion I do not see any particular it because there is an argument between the A. F. of L. and objection to a small adjustment of a few thousand dollars in the C. I. 0.? Oh, no; not in this particular controversy. Then the cost of a few buildings, where the situation is such locally what is it all about? It is to determine whether the head of that the needs of the community cannot be taken care of by one faction or the head of the other faction, both belonging the program as it was set up originally, but any general au­ to the U. A. W. A., which is affiliated with the C. I. o., shall thorization for a new program, in my opinion, should come collect the dues of those two groups. from the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds. Mr. O'CONNOR. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Mr. Chairman, will the to me for a brief question? gentleman yield? Mr. HOFFMAN. I yield. Mr. TABER. I yield. Mr. O'CONNOR. If we should bring in an amendment en­ Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. These buildings in the larging the rights of the employee, will the gentleman vote right-hand column have already been authorized, but the for it? money has not been allotted? Mr. HOFFMAN. Sure, if it gives them the right to bargain Mr. TABER. No. If the lady will pardon me, the cities collectively, free from restraint, and the right to a fair judicial mentioned in the right-hand ·column are eligible under the hearing. statute for a building. Those are places in which the receipts Mr. O'CONNOR. Oh, they have that. exceed $10,000. Every place in the country where the receipts Mr. HOFFMAN. No; they have not. ·Why, they are picket­ exceed $10,000, if it is not in next to the last column, is in ing up there now to compel them to join the C. I. 0., when the last column, unless it already had at the time these they want to join another union or no union at all. That is projects were undertaken suitable bUilding fa'cilities. the trouble. In all seriousness, is it not time we get at it and Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Will the gentleman yield amend the act so that it will lessen the causes of industrial further? disputes affecting foreign and interstate commerce? Mr. TABER. Yes; I Yield. Mr. O'CONNOR. . That is what it is for. Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Take the city of Melrose Mr. HOFFMAN. The title of the act says that the purpose in my own district. That was authorized quite a good mahy of the act was to lessen the causes of industrial dispute, but, as years ago and then it was not built because there was not a matter of fact and in actual practice, it has increased indus­ enough money. So that definitely was authorized and sup­ trial strife. It has been used as an organizing agent to further posed to have been allotted some years ago. It is only fair, the interests of the C. I. 0. and to destroy the A. F. of L. and to give Melrose the money for that post office. it has deprived the employee, the man who does the work, as Mr. TABER. I. would say that if the building had ever distinguished from the labor organizer, of the right which the been authorized there, that authorization would continue' act was supposed to grant, that is, the right to bargain col­ until it was satisfied by the construction of a building. That lectively through representatives of his own choosing. is true. What I am asking-what the people are demanding-is that Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. It is only fair to give this Congress get about its business and draw a labor rela­ it the money, it seems to me. tions act which will accomplish the purpose set forth in the Mr. TABER. Yes. It would be fair. If that was allo­ title of this act, which is known as the Wagner law. cated a good many years ago, it would probably depend on Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman, I -yield myself 30 minutes. how long ago it was authorized, whether it could be built Before I start in to say what little I care to about this bill with these funds or not. BUildings which can be built with I call attention to Public Document 177, Seventy-sixth Con­ these funds would be limited, according to my understanding, gress, first session, which is available here at the desk, which to the fulfillment of the authorization of the items that were has a list of all of the public buildings in the different districts specified in the Third Deficiency Act for the fiscal year 1937. in the United States that are supposed to be built under the Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. That was in that list. programs that have already been authorized, and for the Mr. TABER. But not as an authorized project at that continuance of which we are carrying $30,000,000 in this bill. time was it? Mr. MICHENER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. It has been authorized, Mr. TABER. Yes. but they did not have the money. Mr. MICHENER. In that report to which the gentleman Mr. TABER. It was not set up as one to which the money referred there are two columns, one column of projects where had been allocated at that time? there already have been allotments, and the other where there Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. No. It was not allo­ are no allotments, but the projects qualify. Would the cated. $30,000,000 include any of the projects where there has been Mr. TABER. I would doubt if that could be built, under no allotment up to date? the language of this particular statute. 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 1879 . Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Did you give all the The western district has fared better, apparently, than the money that the Department asked for in this bill? eastern district. Just as the gentleman · from Missouri has Mr. TABER. Yes. That is, for this particular item. We pointed out, it seems that the Government has been following did not for every item all the way through, because there a plan that favored the larger cities to the exclusion of the were some of the items where a review justified a cut; but needs of the smaller places. for this particular building program in the districts we gave Mr. TABER. It is true that the Procurement Division has all that the Department asked. gone ahead and spent the biggest part of this money in the Of course, I want to call attention to the fact that the larger centers. program is quite backward. That is, the buildings are not Mr. O'CONNOR. Does not the gentleman think it would progressing as rapidly as it was planned at the time the be the fair and decent thing to do to amend the bill by last program was set up, a little less than a year ago, be­ doubling the amount of this item, making it $60,000,000 in­ cause the Procurement Division has been turning its archi­ stead of $30,000,000, so we can construct at least one post­ tects and engineers over to the P. W. A. for their opera­ office building in every congressimial district each year instead tions, and they have gone behind in this particular program of once every 3 years? of construction out in the districts. Mr. TABER. I do not know that I care to pass on that Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. I am receiving a great question without going into the thing thoroughly, and one of many complaints for that reason, and certainly the Mem­ the committees of the House held hearings on it. bers are not given their post office a year which they have I am sick and tired of the method of authorizing programs been promised for a number of years. for public buildings without any substantial hearings on the Mr. TABER. We were only to have a post office once in subject. It has been the practice for the -Procurement Divi­ 3 years on the last program that was set up. sion to come up here with a list, such as is included in this Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. The prior one. public document, and without any substantial hearings other Mr. TABER. Under the prior one there have been a great than the statement that it would provide public buildings in many delays; there is no question about that. each of the districts in the country and also take care of cer­ Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. They always tell me tain situations in certain of the large centers, we have in­ when I ask tha.t _every Member was to have a post office a cluded the item in a deficiency appropriation bill and passed year, unless _it included a tremendously large post office, and an authorization.· I do not feel that this is the way-to do the then they did not _get it. . But where a Member has reason­ Government's business. I feel that if we are-going to have ably small, inexpensive post offices, that Member was to any more programs they should be authorized after full hear-­ receive a post_office a year. They are not living up to their ings on the part of-the Committee on Public Buildings and; program. . Grounds. Mr. TABER. I think that is true, that they have not. The Mr. STEFAN. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? x:eason why they have not made_the expected progress in the Mr. TABER. I yield. last year is that which I have just specified. Mr. STEFAN. The gentleman from Montana [Mr. Mr. O'CONNOR. Mr. Chairm_an, will the gentleman yield? O'CoNNeR] has- made the point - whi~h would indicate · that Mr. TABER. I yield. under this particular program the small town is being dis­ Mr. O'CONNOR. The $30,000,000 provides simply for the criminated against in favor of the large town. I have -a lot construction of projects already allocated? of authorizations for new buildings in my district. They Mr. TABER. Or authorized under the programs, which appear on page 24. Does the gentleman know how these total $130,000,000 altogether. towns are to be selected for the construction of buildings? Mr. O'CONNOR. I know the gentleman is informed on I understand that the Procurement Division and the Post this but it is my recollection that the act of August 25, 1937, Office Department get together and select as the site for a pro~ided for setting up a plan whereby .a post-office building building the town which 'has the largest postal receipts. Does would be authorized and constructed in every congressional not the gentleman think this leads to discrimination, as district throughout the United States every 3 years. That brought out in his colloquy with the gentleman from Mon­ is, one every 3 years. tana, that the small town is being discriminated against in Mr. TABER. That was the program that was set up at the selection of sites for new buildings? that time. Mr. TABER. I do not know just exactly how they are Mr. O'CONNOR. Now, has that program been changed? selected. Mr. TABER. Just as I have specified here. It has dragged Mr. STEFAN. Does the gentleman know that that is the because of the loaning of the architects and engineering plan? forces to the P. W. A., but that should not result in the ulti­ Mr. TABER. I do not know whether they do it the way mate change · in any program with reference to public the gentleman states or not. buildings. Mr. STEFAN. I was told that that was the way the selec­ Mr. O'CONNOR. In other words, if we go on with the tions were made. present plan in a district such as mine, where I have 18 cities Mr. TABER. The last column in this table indicates the eligible for a new post-office building, and each one crying for towns in which postal receipts are $10,000 and there is no them, it would take 54 years before the Government would building. The next to the last column indicates towns in meet the present demand for post-office buildings. So that which a building has been built under one of these recent plan should be changed. programs, or is building now,- or is to be built with the Mr. TABER. May I ask the gentleman whether all these completion of this program. Montana towns that are in the last column are in his district? It will require about $30,000,000 more to complete this Mr. O'CONNOR. Nearly all of them are. There is Big particular program; and, besides what we are appropriating Timber, Conrad, Cut Bank, Forsythe, Fort Benton, Glacier at this time, there is a very considerable unexpended bal­ Park-- ance that will be carried over into the fiscal year 1939 because Mr. TABER. There are 21 in the whole State. of the delay that has taken place in the early part of this Mr. O'CONNOR. I will be brief and say that there are fiscal · year.- I do not believe that· the Procurement Division 18 eligible cities in my district. Not only can they qualify, could possibly build any more buildings and do a decent job but they need these post-office buildings. of it if they were given more money than is carried in this Mr. TABER. None of those are in the next to the last item. There will, in my opinion, be close to $50,ooo;ooo that column? can be spent in the :fiscal year -1940 with this appropriation. · Mr. O'CONNOR. I do not see any. Mr. STEFAN. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield Mr. TABER. None of those 18? further? Mr. O'CONNOR. Sidney is one, but I think it is the nine- ­ Mr. TABER. I yield. teenth. As I recall, nearly all of these-in fact, all excepting Mr. STEFAN. I am particularly interested in asking as Whitefish and one or two others-are in the western district. to the method of selecting the sites for buildings, whether or 1880 CONGRESSIO~AL . RECORD-HOUSE }fEBRUARY 24 not the gentleman knows or has any information that came the increase would have to be borrowed money and would out in the hearings as to whether or not the procedure is have to be added to the national debt; is that correct? to put the new building in the town where the postal receipts Mr. TABER. If the Congress should be so bold as to in­ are the highest. crease the limit of the national debt. Mr. TABER. I would not think that that was the usual Mr. MICHENER. The gentleman has reference to the or general procedure. fact that the national debt has been limited by statute to Mr. STEFAN. How are they selected? $45,000,000,000? Mr. TABER. They are supposed to take into considera­ Mr. TABER. Yes. tion the needs of the community. In some towns they have Mr. MICHENER. Is it the gentleman's opinion that the a pretty good building that is available, for instance; and authorizations to date have already reached the point so that in some towns they have used closed and abandoned bank if we add to this bill $30,000,000, as suggested by the gentle­ buildings for post-office purposes. In a great many cases man from Montana, we would have to get further authoriza­ these have taken care of the situation pretty well and pro­ tion from the Congress to increase the national debt beyond vided better quarters than could have been gotten in some $45,000,000,000? other way. In some other instances they are located in Mr. TABER. I do not believe we can meet the appropria­ wooden rookeries that are fire hazards and which ought not tions that are carried in the Budget estimates already sub­ to be used for post-office purposes at all. I think they are mitted this year to the Congress and stay within the forty­ supposed to take care of the condition that is the most five billion debt limitation. urgent. Perhaps they do not. Mr. STEFAN. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. STEFAN. The gentleman might be interested to Mr. TABER. I yield to the gentleman from Nebraska. know that in my district the town that received the post Mr. STEFAN. If the gentleman from Michigan will read office was the town which showed the largest postal receipts. the hearings which he has before him, he will find on page Mr. TABER. It should be the town that shows the great- 5 an answer to that question, which was brought out in a est need. colloquy between himself and the Secretary of the Treasury. Mr. MUNDT. Will the gentleman yield? I would like the gentleman who is now speaking to come back Mr. TABER. I yield to the gentleman from South Dakota. to the post-office situation again. As long as we are spend­ Mr. MUNDT. On page 39, I note the post offices listed for ing this money for buildings, and if the plan and program is the State of South Dakota. I wonder if the gentleman can to build in those towns where the postal receipts are the give me some idea of the method used by which some of highest, there is absolutely no chance under the present pro­ these post offices appear in one column and some in the gram for a small town to get a building. That results in dis­ other. For example, Britain, Canton, and Clark are in the crimination in favor of the larger towns. Is that not column which says that the projects are not authorized correct? to date. Do these two divisions, the Procurement Division Mr. TABER. I would not say that was so. I do not know. and the Post Office Department, have the ult~mate decision in Mr. DONDERO. Will the gentleman yield? that matter or does some committee in the Congress deter­ Mr. TABER. I yield to the gentleman from Michigan. mine it? Mr. DONDERO. I have just talked to Mr. Betterly, of the Mr. STEFAN. The Post Office Department and the Pro­ Post Office Department, and he tells me that the criticism curement Division. just made by the gentleman who preceded me is not well Mr. TABER. The practice followed is that the Chief of founded but, on the contrary, it is based entirely on the con­ the Procurement Division and the Fourth Assistant Post­ ditions in a locality; it is based on the need, the condition master General, Mr. Purdum, who constitute the public build­ of the buildfug, the geography of the place, its increase in ings committee, get together and go over the situation. They population, and its postal receipts and other factors that make a recommendation in such a communication as Public enter into the matter. I am informed the question whether Document 177, which the gentleman has. This is signed by it is a big city or a small city does not enter into it, but that Mr. Farley, Postmaster General, and Mr. Gibbons, Acting the city chosen is the one where the need is greatest. Secretary of the Treasury. It submits the recommendation. Mr. STEFAN. The gentleman mentioned me in his state­ The Committee on Appropriations or the Committee on ment. Public Buildings and Grounds has been accustomed to go over Mr. DONDERO. Yes. the schedule submitted and give it legislative sanction. The Mr. STEFAN. Will the gentleman yield so that I can inter­ projects in the first column, headed "Projects authorized," rogate the gentleman from Michigan? and amount allotted are projects that have been included in Mr. TABER. I yield to the gentleman from Nebraska. some public-building program reasonably current, or since Mr. STEFAN. I want to repeat that in my district the the practice was started of the P;rocurement Division having site for a new building was selected in towns where the jurisdiction over the (1onstruction of public buildings tlnder postal receipts were the highest. The gentleman's statement the Treasury Department. just made is news to me; that is, it is not so that the pro­ The last column covers projects that are eligible under the gram is carried out along those lines. Need may have some­ statute for consideration so far as a post-office site is con-· thing to do with it, but the need, after a conference between cerned. Those are the towns that have no buildings, but in the Procurement Division and the Post Office Department is which the postal receipts exceed $10,000. based upon the amount of postal receipts which eventually· Mr. LAMBERTSON. Will the gentleman yield? will result in discrimination against the smaller towns which Mr. TABER. I yield to the gentleman from Kansas. can never· hope to get large postal receipts, in favor of the Mr. LAMBERTSON. We are wasting a lot of money in larger towns. I insist that is true. other ways and we might as well waste a little here. There Mr. DONDERO. I do not think it has worked out that is no justification for an appropriation for post offices in way in my district. second-class cities or the smaller first-class cities. There are Mr. STEFAN. I am talking about my district, in which plenty of vacant buildings of suitable nature in every one of we do not have big industrial cities or large factory towns. these towns, and I venture to say in every one of the 18 in I still insist that the plan of the Procurement Division and the district represented by the gentleman from Montana. Post Office pepartment is to select towns where the post­ We are only justified in doing this on the ground we are office receipts are the largest. You will find in the last wasting a lot of money in other ways and we might as well column there are a large number of towns eligible for new have some out in the country. buildings that will not get them under the present program, Mr. TABER. There is a great deal to what the gentleman whether you like the spending policy or not. from Kansas has said with reference to a great many of Mr. DONDERO. Does the recommendation of the Con­ these post-office buildings. gressman have anything to do with it? Mr. MICHENER. If the amount were increased at all, as Mr. STEFAN. Not my recommendation. suggested by the ge~tleman from ~o~taria, 'the amount of_ mere the gavel fell.] 1939 ·CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 1881 Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman, I -yield myself 30 additional less of the party affiliation of the Congressman. If a certain minutes. town gets a new post-office building, many feel hurt because Mr. LAMBERTSON. Will the gentleman yield? of the location of it, and other towns are sore because they Mr. TABER. I yield to the gentleman from Kansas. did not get one. However, I disagree with the gentleman in Mr. LAMBERTSON. Does not the gentleman feel, from all other matters mentioned. his experience, the fact that these post-office buildings in The gentleman says we do not need to put up new post­ these second-class cities cost practically twice as much to the office building because we have a lot of unused buildings. Government as the same kind of a building would cost a I wonder if the gentleman knows just how suitable such private individual makes them unpopular and that the Con­ buildings are for postal purposes. I know the gentleman's gressmen are d~luding themselves with the idea they can get statement is not true out in my community, because I live in a few more of these in their districts so that they may be the West, which is r.ot yet built up, but is in the building. that much more popular? Its future is ahead of it, as a future ought to be. I suppose We have to meet the standards of organized labor and a there are parts of this older portion of the community, how­ dozen different requirements that exist a hundred miles away ever, where there are plenty of unused buildings. Some of from home. They take the prevailing wages that exist there them are abandoned church buildings. I do not believe the and put them in effect out in the country. This is not popu­ gentleman from Kansas would go so far as to recommend lar, and the people do not appreciate it. They know it is a that we use some of these unused churches as post-office waste of money. Does not the gentleman )?elieve that is the buildings. No doubt they would be donated. reaction? Mr. LAMBERTSON. Practically every town of any size or Mr. TABER. There is a great deal to what the gentleman any city which has a second-class post office has a vacant from Kansas has said. We are spending practically a mini­ bank building with a furnace and a vault that you can rent mum of $70,000 for every building that is put up. There is for $15 to $25 a month, or buy for $250. no question in the world that for half that sum of money a Mr. MURDOCK of Arizona. If I may go one step fur­ building suitable to the needs of many such localities could be ther, Mr. Chairman, may I say that it seems to me we ought erected; so if we were going to spend the same amount of to take some pride in the physical evidence of this great money, it would cover twice as many towns. I am not sure Government of ours. I regard a post-office building in even but that they could put up a building that would be satis­ the smallest town as a symbol of the American Government. factory, if they did things right, for a great deal less than For that reason I have always contended the postmaster $35,000. . ought to be the :finest man in the community, because he is a Mr. HAWKS. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? representative of this great Government, and the post-office Mr. TABER. I yield to the gentleman from Wisconsin. building also ought to be a credit to this Government of Mr. HAWKS. I am inclined to agree with my friend the ours. When I say this I am not intending to imply that gentleman from Kansas. In my district last year, in my we ought to waste money or that we ought to go ahead with home town, there was authorized to be erected a post-office an outlandish building program now because we are in a building, one of these $75,000 structures. The Post Office spree of spending. I do want to impress this point, how­ Department is very well taken care of in a very :fine building ever, that out where the West begins we have never put up for which about $900 a year rent is being paid. The post­ a building, as far as my memory goes, that has been ade­ office clerks and the postmaster himself are perfectly satis­ quate 5 years after it was finished. We are not building fied. They have every convenience available, and they are sufficiently for the future out there. I should like my able to give the citizens of my city excellent Service. Still brethren to see that point and make allowance as between there has been authorized the construction of a $75,000 build­ a growing part of the country and a part that has already ing. Let me tell you the folks at home are thoroughly dis­ had its growth. .gusted with the situation. Mr. STEFAN. Mr. Chairman, Will the gentleman yield? Mr. TABER. I would expect such a situation would arise Mr. TABER. I should like to say something now myself, if in a great many places. I know, you all know, and the gen­ I may. tleman from Kansas I am sure knows that if his community If we go too far in the building of post offices, we are going or my community undertakes to build a courthouse or a city to have to pay for them with the kind of currency the gentle­ hall or a town hall or something like that we get better man from Arizona gave me the other day, one of the rebel architectural results and better price results by far than Mexican currencies. This is about the kind of currency we does the Procurement Division. Does not the gentleman will come to, if we keep on with the spending program that find it that way? has been going on for a long time. . Mr. LAMBERTSON. Without any doubt, because the Mr. STEFAN. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield Federal Government is hedged about with labor and other now? restrictions. When a pos.t~office building is being constructed Mr. TABER. I yield. in a town a hundred miles from Kansas City they go to Mr. STEFAN. I wish to refer again to the statement of Kansas City to find a union standard of ·prevailing wages to the gentleman from Kansas [Mr. LAMBERTSOJi] in connection apply in the country in erecting the building, and this with empty bank buildings, I should like to talk to him per­ makes it very expensive. sonally about the racket that has been played upon the public May I make the further observation that if they did not by certain cliques in gobbling up hundreds of these empty have these post offices to build there would be no occasion to bank buildings and renting them to the Government as post have a ceremony on the breaking of the ground, another offices. However, that is not the point I am trying to make. ceremony on the laying of the cornerstone, another cere­ I am opposed considerably to unnecessary spending, but we mony on the enclosing of the building, and another and :final have an authorization and an appropriation to build. ceremony when the building was opened for business. The gentleman from Kansas would not build any new Mr. MURDOCK of Arizona. Mr. Chairman, will the gen­ buildings in the small towns or in the towns where second.:. tleman yield? class post offices are located, but I still wish to make the Mr. TABER. I yield to the gentleman from Arizona. point that if his psychology were carried out in the Congress, Mr. MURDOCK of Arizona. I have listened with consider­ as long as that program were carried out, the small towns in able interest to the comments of the gentleman from Kansas the West would never get a new building. [Mr. LAMBERTSON]. I agree with him on only one point he Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman, I am now going to talk a brought out, a point I believe it well for him to drive home little bit about the Treasury bill and some of its features. in the minds of us new Congressmen, and that is that any­ Under the gold bill the Government of the United States thing a Congressman may have to do with the post-office­ has on hand, as of December 31 last, $14,500,000,000 of gold. building program is a headache. I think that is true regard- This has been brought in from our banks and from foreign LXXXIV--119 1882 ·coNGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE }i'EBRUARY 24 countries in very large volume so that at the present time Mr. TABER. I say to the gentleman that he and the Rep­ we have practically three-fifths of all the world's gold in resentatives from the silver States are making a great mis­ our Treasury. Unquestion-ably if we attempted to sell it we take in trying to have continued a program for the purchase could not get what we paid for it. of $180,000,000 to $200,000,000 of silver, the most of it foreign On top of this we have gone ahead with a large silver- silver, which is brought in here from other countries and . buying program, and what have we done in that respect? which is being used now just the way the gold is being used, We have built up in the Treasury silver amounting in all, and I am going to call attention to that at this moment. as of November 30 last, to 3,698,000,000 ounces, an increase The gold and silver have been brought in here from for­ of 1,674,000,000 ounces from June 19, the date of the Silver eigners and the foreigners have been getting credit for it, and Purchase Act, down to last November, and for that silver with that money they have gone into our stock markets and We have built up in the Treasury silver amounting in all bond markets and have obtained in the last 5 years a very .newly mined silver bringing anywhere from 60 cents to 77 large interest in our bond and stock market, and they are cents per ounce. Of the silver that was brought in, costing able as a result of that interest to manipulate our bond and us somewhere around $800,000,000 or $900,000,000, only stock market up and down, to the detriment of our own 253,143,000 ounces were in domestic, newly mined silver. The people, just the way the old Wall Street pirates used to do balance was old silver or foreign silver that was imported. 25 years ago. That is one of the situations that you have Now, what have we done? In order to give a subsidy to been promoting by this program. I think it is about time the silver miner of approximately $130,0000,000, or an average we stopped the freezing of gold in the Treasury, and the over the 5-year period of approximately $26,000,000 a year, gathering in from all the world all the gold and the silver we have spent about $900,000,000 for silver or an average of that we can gather, and turning over our investment mar­ $180,000,000 over the last 5 years. Much better, if we have kets to foreigners to manipulate up and down. got to subsidize the home producer of silver, to hand over Mr. MURDOCK of Arizona. Would it not be possible for us the $30,000,000 and have done with it than to attempt to to carry out a part of this silver program confining our pur­ go ahead and buy all the silver that is offered us from every chases to domestically produced silver and not the other silver? country of the world, as we have been doing for the past Mr. TABER. Only as a subsidy. If the Government feels 5 years. This has placed a terrific burden upon our country, that it should subsidize the silver-producing industry that and has placed it in debt to an additional amount of approx­ might be an excuse for it on the part of those who feel they imately $900,000,000. should subsidize every industry,· and only in case they were Now, we have gone ahead with that silver, and we have is­ to subsidize every industry. Of course, we all know-those sued silver certificates against it at the rate of about $1.25 an of us who have followed the tables that have been presented ounce-! have forgotten the exact figure-so that we have to us-that most of this money for silver goes to the United outstanding against that silver which has been purchased States Smelting & Refining Co. and to the American Smelt­ approximately $1,600,000,000 of silver certificates. ing & Refining Co. Of course, they do employ some people This is the form in which the debt exists. Some of the in some of the silver-mining territory, but the whole thing people from the silver-mining territory, who do not under­ goes into the Treasury, most of it, through four of five large stand the situation, say that we are making a profit by issuing smelting outfits, such as I have described; and I am making the liabilities of the Government at the rate of $1.26 an no attack on them because they are entitled to the subsidy· ounce, or whatever it is, against that silver which costs less just as much as anyone else under the statute. They have than half of that amount. Now, do you not see that this is a been able to put it across. The question is, How long are debt of the Government and must be paid just like the bonds the American people going to be that kind of suckers? that are issued? The trouble with their point of view and Mr. STEFAN. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? their perspective is this: In order to cover up a subsidy of Mr. TABER: -Yes; $30,000,000 a year, or a little less, they have inveigled the Mr. STEFAN. What will happen if we stop buying silver Government into a tremendous silver program where we and gold? · have absorbed all this silver that has come from all over Mr. TABER. We can create a · free market for gold, the the world. same as England, and not have the burden of letting England Mr. TAYLOR of Tennessee. Mr. Chairman, will the gen- load the whole job of financing and stabilizing her currency tleman yield? onto us. Mr. TABER. I yield. Mr. TAYLOR of Tennessee. Is not that inflation? Mr. STEFAN. Was there· anything in the hearings to the Mr. TABER. By another name, the same thing. effect that the price of gold is going to be increased within a Mr. TAYLOR of Tennessee. It seems to me that is genuine short time from $35 an ounce to $41 an ounce? inflation. Mr. TABER. No; we had no intimation that that would Mr. TABER. It would be, except it has crowded out of the come. market in that time approximately the same amount of Mr. STEFAN. Was there anything in the hearings as to Federal Reserve notes, and it is simply an addition to our when we are going to stop buying the gold and silver and direct debt. what would be the effect when we do? Mr. MURDOCK of Arizona. Mr. Chairman, will the gen­ Mr. TABER. Of course, as I understand it, there is an tleman yield? expiration date on the statute that authorizes the purchase Mr. TABER. Yes. of certain types of silver. Unless Congress extends that act­ Mr. MURDOCK of Arizona. I think the gentleman ought and I hope it will not extend it, because I want to see us stop to point out that the silver program which we have been being made suckers in this country-unless that act is ex­ following has had two objectives. tended we will have to stop buying foreign silver at that time. The gentleman lays stress on what he calls a subsidy to Mr. STEFAN. Most of the gold we are buying now and silver, whereby we have been spending about $30,000,000 most of the silver that we are buying is coming to us from for American-produced silver. We have been buying silver foreign countries, is it not? abroad. I am not here to defend the purchase of foreign Mr. TABER. At least two-thirds, and probably three­ silver, but if we have been doing it, we have been doing fourths of it. it with the idea not of a subsidy, or aiding American sil­ Mr. STEFAN. Resulting in great profit to foreigners? ver producers, but of stimulating .foreign trade. I do not Mr. TABER. Yes. Now I want to go into another feature care to go into that at all, but I am here to say that we have of the situation in the Treasury Department. The chairman been pursuing a wise national policy with reference to do­ of the committee [Mr. LUDLOW] in his statement said that mestically produced silver in paying more for American silver this committee has refused to appropriate funds for new than for foreign silver and more than the world price. I employees to take the place of W. P. A. employees who are should like to see that program continued, only that I would doing work in the. different Treasury units. We found great have the price of domestic silver at least 77 cents an ounce. blocks of W. P. A. employees doing work of all sorts in bureau 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-.HOUSE .1883 after bureau of the Treasury, where there had been and could · the situation in the Post Office Department, and then I am be over the last 4 or 5 years no real review of the situation. going to bring what I have to say to a close. When a department comes before the Committee on Ap- . The estimated post-office revenue for 1939 and 1940 is propriations and asks for funds, tn my opinion, it should approximately the same as it was for 1938 and approximately justify every dollar it is going to use in. the coming year. In· the same as it was for 1937. The operating expenses, on the · the last 4 or 5 years it has been customary, whenever the other hand, are showing a continuous increase-larger than head of any department wanted to go ahead and expand his the increase in the receipts. With $1,000,000 increase in activities, to put W. P. A. employees on the roll and to build receipts there is an increase of $14,000,000 in estimated ex­ . up his department just as high as he wanted to have it. penditures from 1938 to 1939. With $9,000,000 increase in Now, we have gone ahead with our situation, and there has receipts, approximately the same amount is estimated in in­ been absolutely no brake op it. When the Appropriations creased expenditures for 1940. Everywhere, regardless of the Committee brought in the last so-called relief bill a year fact that the receipts of each post office are about on the ago, it tried to set up for the accounting activities and dis- · same basis, we are having a set-up of increased personnel. bursement activities of the Treasury the funds that were Frankly I do not think ·it is in the interest of the Govern­ necessary, instead of using funds appropriated. for the pur­ ment to go on with that great big increase in personnel. I pose of handling the relief load. But when we came to in­ believe we should have enough to do our work, but I do not vestigate we found that the Treasury had been using these believe we should go along building up a tremendous per­ employees who were provided for with W. P. A. funds, for all sonnel, larger than was required to do the same amount of sorts of things in the Treasury, regardless of whether it had business a year before. anything to do 'With handling the pay of the relief employ­ I hope that the additional funds which we are giving to ees or not. That is a practice that I hope the committee and the Budget this year-the Budget appropriation is now going the Congress can solve and stop when the next relief bill is to be a little over $300,000 as compared with $75,000 or $80,000 considered. ·I hope it will not be considered as an emer­ in previous years-that the Budget will make an unprove­ gency measure, but will be considered upon its merits, with ment in its set-up. They have been allowed all sorts of in­ time enough involved so that the Congress can stop a great vestigators and all sorts of auditors and hearing officers to many of the abuses that these departments have pulled off go into the Budget situation thoroughly and cut it down. in the last 5 years. In some of them you cannot tell any­ Frankly, I do not think that the funds that we gave them in thing about the way they were operating. They showed all the deficiency bill last June were spent to the best advantage, sorts of inconsistencies and all sorts of jumping around in because they came in here with proposed increased estimates such a way that I was inclined to believe they were paying for almost every bureau and department of the Government. these people an unconscionable sum -for the work they were It is my belief that the expenditure of funds on their part doing-more than they would pay if they were regular should result in the weeding out of the waste which I believe employees. exists throughout the Government. Now, I want to call attention to another situation that exists Mr. Bell told us one thing- that was very interesting when ·in the Government. In 1934 the total number of Govern­ he was before us. He said be felt that had the Budget had ment checks drawn was 13,483,000. In 1937 it was 113,436,- the force that has now been given him, the loose ends of the 966-nearly 10 times as many. I know of nothing that administration of government could be well taken care of . presents a clearer picture of what we are doing in this and that we could get rid of duplication and waste. He ·said country, running our expenses away up. he did not believe there would have been any agitation for Another item of the bill contains a large sum of money a reorganization bill if such a function had existed. I hope which is.set up for the purpose of providing for the issuance that when Mr. Bell comes· up here next year with the Budget of Government securities. In connection with the so-called he will have thoroughly combed the departments of this baby bonds that have been put out we have high-pressure Government, and instead of bringing increased estimates he salesmen who are handling the job. They get good big sal­ will bring us decreased estimates for the operation of the aries, and they came before the committee with their high­ Government, and that he will have culled out of the Budget pressure methods and tried to sell us the program. estimates any outfit which is duplicating the functions of The CHAffiMAN. The time of the gentleman from New other outfits that should be doing the work. I want to see York has again expired. this Government put on a sound basis and get rid of the waste and duplication that exists. Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that Mr. CLEVENGER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman I may proceed beyond the hour that is allowed by the rule . . yield? The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, it is so ordered. Mr. TABER. I yield. There was no objection. Mr. CLEVENGER. I find myself on the Committee on Mr. TABER. . I yield myself 15 additional minutes. Expenditures in the Executive Departments. We have been Mr. Chairman, we found that a very large number of peo­ here nearly 2 months. So far nothing at all of any impor­ ple were bUying these bonds under high-pressure advertising tance has come before this committee. I looked up the his­ and that sort of thing and the work of high-pressure salesmen. tory of the committee the other day. The committee is some It is a fine thing when our citizens will buy our bonds, but it is 10 years old. I found that it succeeded to the duties of about a very serious thing when we crowd those bonds onto a lot of 11 other expenditure committees. Does it not seem to the poor people who cannot afford to hold them and who must gentleman that some of these conditions he still. finds pre­ give them up before they can get any interest. vailing and of which he complains-the use of W. P. A. em­ If they have a few dollars to stow away like that, they ployees in the departments, for instance-might have been might better put it in a savings bank where they might get discovered by this committee if it had functioned according a little interest, rather ·than to have to redeem the bonds to the purpose for which it was created by the Congress? before they can hold them to an interest period. Our com­ Mr. TABER. I think one of the most outrageous things mittee put a stop to these big advertisements in the news­ that has occurred in the last 6 years has been the failure papers and magazines and a lot of this extravagant expendi­ of that committee to function. It was set up to get at the ture that has been going on. It is still possible for the De­ root of a great many evils in government and get rid of a lot partment to operate with some of these high-pressure sales­ of waste. It has absolutely failed to function. men. Frankly I do not believe that situation should be al­ Mr. LUDLOW. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? -lowed to continue. I do not believe that in times of peace, Mr. TABER. I yield. when we have funds available to buy our Government se­ Mr. LUDLOW. I share 100 percent the gentleman's wish curities, that we can afford to be crowding on to people who that the Budget Bureau would hold down these estimates. cannot afforct to carry them, Government obligations. While we are contemplating that prospect, I wonder if we I· do not believe I will go into a great many more of the should not wish also that the Congress do its part and not features of the bill at this time. I want to call attention to go to extremes in the matter of authorizations. 1884 _CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE ;F_EBRUARY 24 Mr. TABER. I think Congress should stop authorizing the I am surprised that as a result of this un-American meet­ expenditure of funds except where it is absolutely necessary ing which was publicly announced there were only 15 arrests. for the furi.ctioni:r-g of the Government. I was also surprised that the Dies committee, knowing of Mr. LAMBERTSON. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman this meeting, took no steps to check and recheck on the yield? proposed so-called pro-Was:Pington Birthday meeting. Mr. Mr. TABER. I yield. Chairman, I want to say it was horrible and disgraceful. To Mr. LAMBERTSON. A great many authorizations have my great surprise and astonishment I read in the press yes­ come about in the last few years in a left-handed fashion. terday-and I am only quoting from the press-that the Dies The President has been given power in relief bills without any committee is going to have nine probers or so-called investi­ direct authorization to start new projects which require hun­ gators, who are going to assemble evidence of subversive dreds of millions of dollars to finish. Congress, therefore, is influences in the United States. It will take 3 or 4 months not responsible for many of these projects that were started to make an examination, gather the evidence, and take the under relief measures. ·testimony for presentation at public hearings next summer. Mr. TABER. There is no question about that. Upward of Do I understand that to mean that since last June the Dies two-thirds of the funds that have been appropriated for re­ committee had no evidence at all on fascism, nazi-ism, and lief have not been used for relief but have been used for build­ other isms? Do I understand from this press statement that ing structures that had nothing to do with relief, and for we have to start all over again to .find the culprits who are enlarging the functions of the Government and enlarging the undermining this Government with a foreign ideology, foreign activities of the departments of the Government; and we doctrines, and foreign principles in their attack upon democ­ should stop this kind of activity. racies? Do I understand, Mr. Chairman~ that we have to Now I want to say a word or two about this bill and about start this thing all over again? this committee. The chairman of this committee, the gentle­ Mr. DEMPSEY. Will the gentleman yield for a brief man from Indiana, Mr. LUDLOW, and the members of the question? committee, Mr. O'NEAL, of Kentucky; Mr. JoHNSON, of In­ Mr. DICKSTEIN. I will be glad to yield in a minute. diana; Mr. DALY, of Pennsylvania; Mr. MAHON, of Texas; A week ago I took the trouble to present certain specific Mr. McLEOD, of Michigan; and Mr. DITTER, of Pennsylvania, facts on the floor of this House. If the Members will read up to the first of the year, spent 7 or 8 weeks going over the RECORD, or if these investigators will read the RECORD, this bill. The committee has given it, I think, the most and if the members of the Dies committee will take the thorough hearings that any appropriation bill has received trouble to do likewise, they will find it will not take 4 months since I have been a member of the committee. In addition to make this investigation. I have given you the names of to that you will note, if you look at the report from page 50 persons, the leaders of alien groups in this country, whom you on, almost every item in the bill has received a cut. Some of may subpena forthwith and conduct your investigation so the cuts some of us thought ought to be larger, and some­ that we may have something in the form of legislation before times we argued quite a while, but finally reached an agree­ we adjourn this Congress. ment on the amounts. When it is possible for a committee Before proceeding I yield to the gentleman from New to cut over $27,000,000 from an appropriation bill in an effort Mexico [Mr. DEMPSEY]. that called for so much personal service, it is a very con­ Mr. DEMPSEY. Do I understand that the distingUished siderable accomplishment. The committee has been able to gentleman from New York is criticizing the procedure of the report a net cut of $27,926,000; and I want to commend the Dies committee because of something he has read in the spirit with which the committee went at its job. I wish it newspaper with reference as to how it is going to proceed? might be an example for every other committee that comes Mr. DICKSTEIN. I just stated I quoted what I read in into this House with any bill calling·for funds to be taken the newspapers. I was not the author of that statement. out of the Public Treasury. I believe that in a great many If it is correct, I have some criticism to make. other bills where there are larger items on projects and that Mr. DEMPSEY. I am sure the gentleman realizes that the sort of thing, a much larger saving proportionately could be press is not always correct. I saw a picture of the gentle­ realized with the same kind of treatment. [Applause.] man from New York the other day, Mr. SAMUEL DICKSTEIN, [Here the gavel fell.] and underneath was the name Fritz Kuhn. That was not Mr. LUDLOW. Mr. Chairman, I yield 15 minutes to the correct. gentleman from New York [Mr. DICKSTEIN]. Mr. DICKSTEIN. If the gentleman wants to take my Mr. DICKSTEIN. Mr. Chairman, I read with keen inter­ case, we can sue for libel. est the speech made by our colleague the gentleman from Mr. DEl\fPSEY. I am not an attorney. Colorado [Mr. MARTIN] on the question of Fascist groups and Mr. DICKSTEIN. I hope the gentleman will recommend Nazi bunds in the United States. one to me. Having been close to the notorious New York meeting on :Mr. DEMPSEY. Do not take everything· literally. Monday last, I made a number of observations. Most of the Mr. DICKSTEIN. I am not exactly making an attack. unscrupulous persons participating in that meeting had ques­ I am trying to awaken the American people. I have been tionable allegiance to our country and the majority of them trying to do this for 4 or 5 long years. held dual nationality. Meeting under the cloak of purported We all talk about the Dies committee, and I have the Americanism at a so-called Washington celebration, they saw highest regard for the gentleman from Texas [Mr. DIES], fit to dese·crate the honored man whose birthday it was by the gentleman from New Mexico [Mr. DEMPSEY], and all the openly preaching race hatred and obnoxious doctrines, at­ other members. I know they are trying to do a good job. tacking some of our most prominent public officials, includ­ Mr. DEMPSEY. I thank the gentleman so much. ing our own great President. Mr. DICKSTEIN. One of the fi.ihrers, as they call it, or Nazi leader, got on the platform of Madison Square Garden Similar meetings were held in other sections of the coun­ the other night in front of 20,000 or more people, hundreds of try, and I dare say, Mr. Chairman, that they could not get away with that in any other democracy of the world. whom were in Nazi uniform, a foreign uniform, and this leader said: Free speech was used as a gUise for free abuse of our Con­ I have just returned from a tour out West and we now have stitution, our form of government, and our people. Free 100 Nazi units in the United States. We have created four units speech was used to protect themselves from almost being mas­ in the State of Texas right near the place where Congressman DIEs' sacred by red-blooded Americans, over 100,000, who stood congressional district is located. In the district of the great behind Madison Square Garden protesting against the in­ American, MARTIN DIES. sidious attacks upon the principles George Washington stood The crowd just went wild. I admit Mr. DIES is a great for. It took 1,800 police officers of the city of New York to American, but he should try to destroy all Nazi bunds in his stop bloodshed. district or any other district of Texas. He should try . to 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 1885 destroy all other influences which are un-American and confiscated? Why do we not know-what they are doing here obnoXious to our people and to our Government. and what foreign dictator they represent? I could name to You do not have to be an investigator and take 4 months to the gentleman and his committee, if they wished to listen, find all this out. You do not even have to be a G-man to hundreds of names. I do not need 4 months to give you do that. The evidence is on the surface and noticeable wher­ information if you want to take it, but I do not want to stand ever one moves. behind the back door of the Dies committee and say, "Please Mr. HAWKS. Will the gentleman yield? take this information." I say that if you had subpenaed the Mr. DICKSTEIN. In a moment. I endeavored to give Kuhns, the Fritzes, and the Hanfstaengels, and all such advice to the people. The mere fact I am not a member of groups before this meeting took place you could have exposed this honorable committee does not change the situation at their activities to such an extent that people would not have ~ll. If you want to go places and if you. want to destroy un­ dared to go into that hall, because every person who went in Americanism, do not bring up little insignificant labor.. prob­ there and thus lent support _to that movement would have lems or little insignificant Communist groups that do not been publicly acknowledging his being an enemy of this tnean a thing. country. Mr. HAWKS. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. DEMPSEY. Mr. Chairman, if the gentleman will yield ~ . DICKSTEIN. I yield to the gentleman from Wis­ further, may I say that as a member of the Dies committee consin. I can assure the gentleman from New York he will be very _ Mr. HAWKS. Did the gentleman say "little Communist welcome to COPle before the committee, a_nd it will receive groups" just now? any information he has which has to do with the investig~- _ Mr. DICKSTEIN. I did say _that; yes, sir. I said do not tion the committee is setting out to make. . pick up little fries. Get after the big fellows. As to wheth~r the bund leaders in New York~ few nights Mr. HAWKS. The Communist movement, in the gentle­ ago transgressed to the extent that they should have been man's opinion, is a little movement? stopped, was a matter for the mayor of New York City _to Mr. DICKSTEIN. No, I did not say that at all: Do not handle, not for the Dies committee. put language into my mouth. If the gentleman will follow Mr. DICKSTEIN. I grant that. me, I advocate bringing the big fellows here. Do not pick . Mr. DEMPSEY. . May I say -with respect to uniforms that, up a little labor dispute in which one accuses the other of as far as I personally am concerned-and I am sure every being a "red." Let us get the real "reds" who are responsible member of the Dies committee will agree with me--it is of­ for communism in this country, and, God knows, I have no fensive to me that any persons dressed in -the military uni.. use for them. I would destroy them just as I would any ~orm of any ~ountry in the world should be parading around other "isms" we have in this country. carrying an American :flag and attacking our form of gov­ Mr. LAMBERTSON. Will the .gentleman yield? ernment. I agree with the gentleman on' that point. Mr. DICKSTEIN. I yield to the gentleman from Kansas. Mr. DICKSTEIN. I thank the gentleman for his contri­ Mr. LAMBERTSON. Is it true that the main speaker at bution. tWs New York meeting, Mr. Kuhn, I believe, wore a German [Here the gavel fell.J military uniform? _ Mr.' LUDLOW. Mr. Chairman, I yield 5 additional min.. ~-DICKSTEIN. Absolutely; and not only he but hun­ utes to the gentleman from New York. dreds of the NaZi troopers came there in foreign uniforms Mr. DICKSTEIN. May I call to the attention of the Dies and attacked democracy under the guise of free speech at committee that you can destroy these groups and get the a pro-Washington rally. They did the same thing in San public behind you by publicly exposing un-Americanism, Francisco, where _ there was a .riot involving over 2,000 which the committee could have done if it had taken the persons. trouble to subpena representatives of these groups, and- I The question I ask this House is, If this committee was have named hundreds of them in the RECORD. created to look into exactly such situations, why should they Mr. DEMPSEY. With what would the committee sub~na wait 3 or 4 months to subpena Fritz Kuhn or other members them? , · of the bund and to confiscate their records? Mr. DICKSTEIN. With a subpena. - Mr: DEMPSEY. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? Mr. DEMPSEY. These hundreds of groups all over the Mr. DICKSTEIN. I yield to the gentleman from New . United States? Mexico. Mr. DICKSTEIN. No; the men whose names I have given Mr. DEMPSEY. Does the gentleman from New York have and which the gentleman's committee could itself obtain, any knowledge of whether or not the Dies coinmittee has a who are actively engaged in undermining this Government. complete report on what occurretl in New York City a few Mr. DEMPSEY. What would the committee use for money nights ago? .to bring them here? Mr. DICKSTEIN. I did not say they had. Mr. DICKSTEIN. The committee seemed to continue its Mr. DEMPSEY. Does the gentleman contend the Dies office in New York without money, and it has an office in New committee could have prevented that meetinf;r in New York, York and has two men working there. Why do not the mem­ which was held with the permission of the mayor of New York bers of the committee do what I or any other American City, the city the gentleman represents in part in this Con­ would do; that is, dig down in my pocket for two bucks and gress, ·and with police protection provided by the mayor of subpena as many people as I could with the money I could New York City? spare? Mr. DICKSTEIN. This is a proper question. Mr. DEMPSEY. Does the gentleman believe we are rent­ Mr. DEMPSEY. Is my question a proper question? ing an office in New York? Mr. DICKSTEIN. I think it is a proper question, and I will Mr. DICKSTEIN. No; I did not say renting an office. be glad to try to answer the gentleman. The mayor, as well You have an office in New York in the Federal Building. as I and, I believe, my friend, believes in freedom of speech. Mr. DEMPSEY. We were permitted to lise that office in Mr. DEMPSEY. Most assuredly I do. the Federal Building. Mr. DICKSTEIN. Because we cherish and love freedom of Mr. DICKSTEIN. You have two men working there. How speech, we want to protect it. We gave these persons the do you pay them? right of free speech and assembly, but this right is being Mr. DEMPSEY. We paid them out of the $25,000 we were abused. They are clamoring a'nd telling the public that they allowed and from no other source. We consumed everY are not going to be investigated. that they have not been sub­ dime that was given us by this· Congress. We went as far as penaed since the committee was created, that nothing has we could, and we went as deeply into the Nazi un-American been done to them, and that they can carry on their work. subversive activities as we did the Communist activities. These are their statements in their public meetings, and the . Mr. DICKSTEIN. I woulq not say that. newspapers carried them. Why have not subpenaes been Mr. DEMPSEY. I know the gentleman would not say it, Issued since June of 1938? Why have not their records been but I am saying we did. 1886 CONGRESSIONAL REC.ORD-HOUSE ~EBRUARY 24 Mr. DICKSTEIN. The gentleman is taking in a lot of The Social Security ·· Board is an insurance agency, not a territory. You have not even subpenaed one real Nazi before promotional, placement agency. you. You. have not even subpenaed the Communists before Experience shows that administrators are inclined to take you. I have read the record of the gentleman's committee. the easier of two courses, which in this case would be benefit Mr. DEMPSEY. I have not yet heard the gentleman from payments. Benefit payments are not so large as wages, so New York, who has this mass of important information, make the shops as well as the workers and employers would lose, as an attempt to give any of it to the Dies committee. It would the taxpayers. would certainly be most welcome. Instead, the gentleman has As an insurance-dominated employment service would al­ come on the floor of this House and attacked the committee, most certainly lead to neglect of aggressive placement activi­ which is doing the best it can. ties, which in turn would lead to increased demands upon Mr. DICKSTEIN. I am not attacking the committee; I am insurance benefits, the net result would be a static, dying merely constructively advising the committee. economic order. Mr. DEMPSEY. The most constructive thing the gentle­ Of course, this would be most unfortunate in every way and man can do is to give us the information he has. We will would retard putting men back to work or providing more welcome it. employment. Mr. DICKSTEIN. The gentleman is the first member of · The Social Security Board's unemployment compensation the committee who has even asked for the information. program covers only 50 percent of the country's working Mr. DEMPSEY. I am not asking for it; I am pleading population. The United States Employment Service, on the for it. other hand, is available to all. Would you hurt 50 percent in Mr. DICKSTEIN. I will be glad to give it to the gentleman order to give the other 50 percent alleged benefits, which I if he will ask for it, or to the committee if the committee asks believe can be secured better by another means? for it. Surely the United States Employment Service belongs in Mr. DEMPSEY. We did ask for it. the Department of Labor and nowhere else. The Department Mr. DICKSTEIN. I disagree with the gentleman. The of Labor was created to protect labor, to give jobs, and to help committee never asked me. I know the committee is capable labor with all of its problems. It is the agency to which all of doing its job. All you need is a start, the knowledge of workers look for a whole-hearted effort to make jobs avail­ where to go, which at the present time you do not have. able. Mr. DEMPSEY. We will welcome any assistance the gen­ In its functioning it should have in mind the operation tleman gives us. If the gentleman can show us the way of various labor laws, such as minimum-wage, maximum­ to go, I am sure we shall be pleased to follow the proper line. hour, and child-labor legislation, and should in effect consti­ Mr.- DICKSTEIN. You just tell that to your chairman, tute a workers' center, and, of course, the Department of and I will be very happy to put you on the right road. You Labor does all these things. As I stated before, the veterans do not have to take 4 months -to make the investigation, and all over the country are anxious that it should be kept in the I can save you some money. I would rather have you hold Department of Labor, just as are the members of the labor the money for other purposes, because I believe you will need organizations and those outside of the labor organizations in it during the course of your investigation. this country. As a result of experience and constructive ex­ Mr. DEMPSEY. I feel sure I can speak for the chairman perimentation, the United States Employment Service has and say that he will welcome any cooperation the gentleman perfected a method of coordinating unemployment compen­ can give him. sation work with that of the employment offices. With [Here the gavel fell.l increased financial and legislative support, this program can Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 10 minutes to the be made increasingly and uniformly available throughout the gentlewoman from Massachusetts [1\frs. RoGERS]. entire country. Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Mr. Chairman, I wish to The placement function and the unemployment-compen­ bring to the attention of the House a · matter that vitally sation scheme are both big jobs. They are so big and so affects and distresses labor and the veterans, and also very important that they should not be completely scrambled. many of us all over the country, and that is the rumored This would invite disaster. I favor the closer coordination transfer of the United States Employment Service to the of the-United States Employment Service and the Bureau of Social Security Board. Unemployment Compensation, which might well be secured Very many protests have come to me already from both by coordination of the two agencies within the Department labor and the veterans. I am opposed to a transfer of the of Labor. In order to safeguard their strength and effective­ United States Employment Service to the Social Security ness, they would be maintained as separate bureaus. How­ Board, and I believe the Members will all agree with me in ever, in order to secure unity in relationship with the several this matter. States, it has been suggested that they might both be directed I am opposed to this transfer on the following grounds: by an assistant secretary, with power to make financial and The United States Employment Service must be guaranteed other arrangements and also by increased financial support its vigor and independence because it is one of the principal of the United States Employment Service under the terms of means of combating depressions. It puts men back to work, the Wagner-Peyser Act. We need jobs so desperately in the and that is assuredly what we all ought to be striving to do United States today every effort should be made to facilitate today. getting them. The United States Employment Service was created by the I feel sure there will be great objection on the part of the Wagner-Peyser Act in 1933. Unfortunately, we lost Con­ Members of the House to any transfer of the Employment gressman Peyser a number of years ago. He made a fine Bureau from the Department of Labor to the Social Security contribution to the Congress and to the Nation. · Board. I think we all agree that it belongs in the Labor De­ The United States Employment Service was started under partment, the Department created for labor, and I repeat the Republican administration and has been continued under again the distress and fear of various veterans' organizations the New Deal and has been one of the most successful of the that this transfer to the Social Security may be quietly ef- New Deal's activities. According to Labor Department figures fected. I ask the interest of the membership of the House in it has made more than 25,000,000 placements during the last this question. 5 years. There are now more than 1,600 employment offices Mr. VOORHIS of California. Mr. Chairman, will the gen­ affiliated with it, and I am sure other Members, just as I tlewoman yield? have done, have gone to the offices of this Service trying to Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Yes; gladly. secure employment for their constituents. Mr. VOORHIS of California. I am greatly interested in Undoubtedly transference to the Social Security Board this program because in my own State the lack of coordina­ could not help but react adversely upon the placement func- tion between the two agencies led in the few months prior tion for these reasons: · · to last fall to a very se~ious depletion in the effectiveness of 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 1887 the work of the employment service. Does the lady not agree - , Mr. VOORHIS of California. can the gentleman think of that whatever is done about this matter, the first and pri­ any money that is more truly fiat money than bank deposits mary job is the job of placement; that that ought to be a which are created by a bank in order to make loans there­ thing on which major emphasis is placed; and then referral with? should be made where jobs are available to other agencies? Mr. MURDOCK of Arizona. I cannot. I cannot think of Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Of course, they ought to any greater inflation than we have witnessed many times be closely related, and their first job is to get people back to and shall continue to witness under this system. When you work. It is better for the unemployed and for the Federal talk about infiation coming about because of the purchase of Government both, for the shops, and for the taxpayer, eco­ silver, that is trifling inflation as compared with the volume nomically and as a matter of humanity. It is much better of deposit money or bank credit which can be expanded for the entire country when people are employed. Does not overnight. the gentleman think it belongs in the Labor Department? Let me remind you of the plain fact in history that the Mr. VOORHIS of California. I think probably it does, white and yellow metals have attracted the attention of although my main concern is to see to it that the very thing human beings ever since trade has been carried on. It is done which the gentlewoman suggests, that the Employ­ seems that about one-half the world, the occidental half, ment Service becomes the major consideration, instead of loves the yellow metal, gold. The eastern half. at least, and having the thing reversed and the major emphasis placed on I think more than one-half of the American Continent, is the payment of benefits. How the thing can be worked out very fond of white metal, silver. Ever since the day when I do not know. For my part, anything that can be done to Abraham bought a burial place for his wife Sarah and paid preserve and encourage the Employment Service as it now is, for it in silver, gold and silver have constituted the money is to preserve all of the.things about which the gentlewoman of the common people; but in our country we have gotten spoke, and to me they are of primary consideration and away from it. should be given primary consideration. Although the Constitution of the United States says that Mrs. ROGERS of Massachusetts. I thank the gentleman Congress shall have the power to coin money and· regulate very much for his views. He always wants to be helpful. the value thereof, we have permitted that power to go into The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentlewoman from the hands of the banking class. I tell you the people of this Massachusetts has expired. country demand that this Government reassert its power; Mr. LUDLOW. Mr. Chairman, I yield 10 minutes to. the recapture that function of sovereignty which has been per­ gentleman from Arizona [Mr. MURDOCK]. mitted to slide away from it. Mr. MURDOCK of Arizona. Mr. Chairman, and members Now, with regard to domestically mined silver, it has been of the Committee, I wish to use the few minutes allotted to said that we have been subsidizing a few great corporations me to direct my efforts toward the argument of the gentle­ by that program. I know many small mining camps which man from New York [Mr. TABER] with regard to the silver have been kept going by this slightly better price which the policy that we have been pursuing. As I said in my inter­ Government has been paying for the past 5 or 6 years. It ruption in his remarks, there are two phases to this silver is also true that some of our copper producers, when the question-the purchase of foreign silver and the purchase of price of copper has been low, have gotten by because of the domestically produced silver. You may logically object to Government's purchase of their byproducts, silver. I want to one without logically objecting to the other. I am not here· tell you that in the little mining camp of Tombstone, Ariz., to defend the purchase of foreign silver, but I am merely one of our chief silver-mining camps of the past, several small trying to say now that that is only one phase of it, and I operators closed down about a year ago, when the price of am going to address myself to the other phase. However, I silver dropped from 77 cents an ounce to 64 cents an ounce. have heard some say that it might be well to buy silver from Just that difference of 13 cents an ounce closed down those Mexico and China if thereby we could stimulate export trade people and increased the relief load in that town. I say to with these nations. you that if all the silver-mining camps of this country had I am not well enough versed in these matters to know closed down, which they would have done without this whether that is a good thing or not. If it can be done, it may purchase program--and some copper camps as well-we be a wise policy. But I leave that entirely and refer to this would have been called upon to spend four times as much to matter of domestically produced silver. Let us remember that carry their people on relief as we have spent purchasing in the early days of this administration-! am not sure American-produced silver. No doubt if we had free and whether it was .1933 or 1934-we had a Silver Purchase Act unlimited .coinage of silver, which I am not advocating, which provided for the purchase of silver to such an· extent it would mean a certain amount of inflation, but it is scien­ that our monetary supply of silver should be one-third that tific inflation and probably just about to the degree that the of gold. That is on the statute books. I hope it remains on country needs. the statute books. It should remain there. If you will look Mr. VOORHIS of California. Will the gentleman yield fnto the matter, you will find our present supply of silver is further? far less than one-third of our supply of gold. I just call that Mr. MURDOCK of Arizona. Gladly. fact to your attention. I am not enough of a financial expert Mr. VOORHIS of California. Does not the gentleman to know whether we ought to buy foreign gold, so I do not care believe that the word 'inflation" is very often used in "' to bring that into the discussion. mistaken sense? In other words, the word "inflation" really I am here to say that I believe it is a wise national policy means an increase in the volume of money, which takes place for us to make wider use of the white metal in our monetary more rapidly than the increase in volume of goods and system. Throughout American history there has been a con­ services flowing through the channels of trade, but with :flict between the two types of metallic money; gold versus not as much increase in the value of money each year as silver. All of you remember the battle of the standards. our industries and our agriculture increase the volume of Throughout our American history there has been a battle be­ those goods and services. So that is not infiation, if that tween the two types of paper money; bank currency on the much increase takes place? one hand and governmental currency on the other. For the Mr. MURDOCK of Arizona. I believe the gentleman is most part, I have always been a sound-money man. I do correct in his definition of inflation. Far too often the word not believe in fiat money to any great extent, but I have come "inflation" is used as we use the term "un-American" when to believe that we have too long permitted this sovereign func­ we wish to discredit something. tion of furnishing money to the Nation to pass out of the Taking American economic history as a whole we find that hands of the Government and into the hands of the banks business increases--business requiring an increase in the vol­ and bankers. ume of money-from 3 to 5 percent annually. Money is the Mr. VOORHIS of California. Mr. Chairman, will the gen­ lifeblood of business. Inflation and deflation can be likened tleman yield? to changing the blood supply of the human body. Were I to Mr. MURDOCK of Arizona. Gladly. allow a quart of my blood to be drawn off I would become 1888 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE ~EBRUARY 24 anemic, I might possibly die. On the other hand, were I to wonder if they knew that in order to place a tax on the un­ allow someone to inject a quart of blood into my viens I would taxed salaries of State and naunicipal employees they would :Hush up and I might die. So uncontrolled inflation is an evil, have to place a similar tax upon their own salaries and in­ uncontrolled deflation is an evil. Both must be geared to comes. I wonder if they knew that to tax tl:ie inconaes of American productive capacity and need. Under our bank­ Federal employees who, it should be emphasized, already pay managed system we have seen some tragic operations per- a Federal inconae tax, that they would have to pay a similar fornaed. · leVY themselves. I wonder if the great popularity of this It is my belief that so long as our paper naoney has a naetal­ bill was not based upon a type of demagoguery which aroused lic base--not gold alone, for that puts too much power into the feelings of the people against a group of individuals that the hands of one class--our financial structure is safe. If the they mistakenly felt were enjoying privileges that they do tinae ever conaes when both gold and silver prove inadequate, not enjoy. Briefly, and mark it well, every Federal enaployee we naay have to add to the base other conanaodities constitut­ now residing in the State of Pennsylvania pays every tax ing real wealth. Our money for a tinae should be based upon that any other citizen pays, and every State and municipal a conabination of gold and silver, the anaount of each depend­ employee pays every tax that every other citizen of our State ing upon our production of these precious naetals, as it has pays, except the Federal income tax. Hence, by this bill we been for a portion of our history. Increase should conae not have a queer situation in which the people have asked that in the nature of "bank inflation" but according to business a State income tax· be levied on themselves and all Federal needs. I believe that the banking element of the East, those employees in order that State and municipal employees will who want to keep up the value of gold and the increased have to pay a Federal income tax. Sonaehow it just does value of their property based on gold, are naaking a sad nais­ not make sense. Never before in the history of the State take when they frown upon the use of silver as a monetary have the people urged an increase in their own tax burden base and attenapt to banish the white naetal frona our mone­ and the tax burden of others sinaply because they felt that a tary systena. However, if I had not pursued this line of few State and naunicipal employees should have to pay a tax thought I could have justified the Governnaent's prograna of to the Federal Government. Perhaps if debate in the House buying donaestically produced silver as cheaper than relief of Representatives had not been limited to 3 hours, perhaps which otherwise would have been inaperative in naining canaps. if the Gallup investigators had phrased their questions fairly, · I shall fight to the last ditch to see that the white metal perhaps if the public had been properly informed on both occupies its proper place in the American naonetary systena. sides of the question the people of Pennsylvania would have I believe any other course is folly, not only against the interests risen in loud opposition to this subtle ti:ick that had been of the conanaon people, but eventually it will react against the played upon them. interests of the naoneyed class. [Applause.] Let us now turn aside from this point to a consideration of [Here the gavel fell.l the constitutionality of the measure. I have stated innumer­ Mr. TABER. Mr. Chairnaan, I yield 5 minutes to the gen­ able times that this bill constituted a clear violation of the tlenaan frona Pennsylvania [Mr. CoRBETT]. immunity rule and is, therefore, unconstitutional and this Mr. CORBETT. Mr. Chairman, due to the widespread statement has remained unchallenged by anyone who can misunderstanding of the objections which were raised against speak with authority. At the outset, let us consider briefly H. R. 3590, popularly known as the public salary tax, and due the importance of the immunity rule as explained in the fa.:. to the fact that this bill will soon be before the Semite of the mous case of ColleCtor v. Day <11 Wall. 113). The Court United States for approval or disapproval, I wish to explain ruled that the inamunity rule is- · · the reasons why I have vigorously opposed this bill. Upheld by the great law of self-preservation, as any government, my whose means employed in conducting its operations, if subject to First, it is not at all reciprocal as regards native State the control of another and distinct government, can exist only at of Pennsylvania. Second, it is a clear violation of the im­ the mercy of that government. naunity rule and is therefore unconstitutional. Third, there should be no distinct extension of Federal power without the Earlier Chief Justice Marshall in the famous case of Mc­ consent of the people. Culloch v. Maryland <4 Wheat.> ruled that- Regarding the first point, all persons fanailiar with the sit­ The exemption from taxation has been sustained on a principle which so entirely pervades the Constitution, is so intermixed with uation know that Pennsylvania cannot leVY a graduated in­ the materials which compose it, so interwoven with its web, so conae tax without amending its constitution. We also know blepded with its texture as to be incapable of being separated from that 2 years a.go the people of Pennsylvania voted against an it without rending it into shreds. amendment which would have made possible such a tax. The This, Mr. Chairman, is the rule which the Members of the consequences of this state of affairs are quite sinaple. Once House of Representatives who supported this bill ignored. this bill becomes the law every paid enaployee of the State of This is the rule which those of us who voted against the Pennsylvania and all of its subdivisions become liable to pay bill refused to ignore. This is the rule -on whose existence a Federal income tax, but none of the Federal enaployees who the existence of our .dual system of government may quite reside in Pennsylvania beconae eligible to pay a State inconae possibly depend. Once we have set it aside we have opened tax. This is not reciprocity, but rather it resenables a condi­ the way for destructive taxation, and, as ever, the power to tion where a man without a cow agrees to share all of his tax is still the power to destroy. cows with his neighbor who has many cows. Another feature of the unconstitutionality of this act In this same connection, even if the day should come when should be properly emphasized, because sonae · people have the people of Pennsylvania decide to have a graduated in-. been led to believe, particularly by the public press, that the conae tax, the fact still remains that the State and municipal sixteenth. amendment gave Congress the power to leVY such employees outnumber the Federal employees on the ratio of a tax. The exponents of this theory point with great mental about 5 to 1. Quite naturally the Federal Government is pride to the words "whatsoever source derived" and say, very willing to grant reciprocal powers to the States when "What could be more simple and plain?" I grant that these a decided advantage will accrue to itself. Therefore it is words are misleading, but their existence does not excuse my clear and sincere conviction that, at least so far as the those who seek to shape public opinion from studying their State of Pennsylvania is concerned, the tax is not reciprocal, historical origin. In 1910 Charles Evans Hughes, at that and no volume of vocal hysterics can ever alter the fact that time Governor of the State of New York, called on the Sen­ Pennsylvania will suffer as a result of the passage of this ate of the United States to express an opinion as to whether legislation. the words "whatsoever source derived" might some day lead I wonder at this point if the people of Pennsylvania knew to a tax on the instrunaentalities or means and property of that when they urged the passage of this bill that they were the State and municipalities or on the salaries of their offi­ urging the passage of a tax which would only result in draw­ cers. The answer to his question may be found in Senate ing more money out of their State for the benefit of other Resolution 175 subinitted by Senator BoRAH on the 8th day States and Without proper corresponding compensation. I of February 1910. 1939 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 1889 After reviewing for 1 hour all of the legal implications in­ poison-pen artist, or opinion poll. I predict that the day will volved Senator BoRAH concluded that no such danger threat­ come when I can point with pride to my vote against H. R. ened, that the immunity rule was inviolate, and that- 3590. · [Applause.] No one should be misled by the utterly unfounded proposition Mr. LUDLOW. Mr. Chairman, I move that the Committee that this amendment contained the power to embarrass the State do now rise. and rend the whole fabric into shreds. To construe the proposed amendment so as to enable us to tax the instrumentalities of The motion was agreed to. the State would do violence to the rules laid down by the Su­ Accordingly the Committee rose; and the Speaker having preme Court for a hundred years, wrench the whole Constitution resumed the chair, Mr. BoEHNE, Chairman of the Committee from its harmonious proportions, and destroy the object and pur­ of the Whole House on the state of the Union, reported that pose for which the whole instrument was framed. (CoNGRES­ SIONAL RECORD, VOl, 45, pt. 2, pp. 1694-1698.) that Committee, having had under consideration the bill H. R. 4492, had come to·no resolution thereon. At ·another place in the same resolution Senator BoRAH declared that the words "from whatsoever source derived" EXTENSION OF REMARKS add nothing to the force of the amendment. On the basis Mr. VOORHIS of California. Mr. Speaker, I ask unani­ of these and similar assurances the States of these United mous consent to extend my own remarks and to include States ratified the sixteenth amendment;_ so if the Salary therein a letter from the chairman of the National Monetary Tax Act becomes part of the law of this land, it is not too Conference. much to say that the Congress of the United States has The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the request of the not merely done an unconstitutional thing but it has broken gentleman from California? · faith with the sovereign States that compose the United There was no objection. States. Mr. MURDOCK of Arizona. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous I for one did not desire to be a party to that breach of consent to extend my own remarks and to include therein a faith, nor did I care to violate my oath of office by voting resolution which I have received from the State Legislature for a bill which I conscientiously felt to be unconstitutional. of Arizona. Others, of course. and I have the utmost respect for their The SPEAKER. Without objection, it is so ordered. opinions and integrity, must have felt differently, but I be­ There was no objection. lieve that the hasty manner in which the bill was rushed Mr. MAHON. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to through the House and the lack of opportunity to study the revise and extend the remarks I made this afternoon and to whole situation may account for their vote. include therein certain tables and excerpts from letters re­ Regarding the third point, which states that there should garding star routes, which inserted matter will be very brief. be no distinct extension of Federal power without the con­ The SPEAKER. Without objection, it is so ordered. sent of the people, I grant again that opinions may differ, There was no objection. but I have always believed that the tenth amendment of Mr. LAMBERTSON. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous con­ the Bill of Rights, which says "all powers not granted to the sent to revise and extend the remarks I · made during the Federal Government are reserved. to the States or the people course of the speech of the gentleman from Vermont [Mr. thereof" is not only part of the fundamental law of the land PLUMLEY], and to include therein a paragraph from a letter.. but it is likewise a good provision, and so long as it remains The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the request . of the as a vital part of the United States ·Constitution the people gentleman ·from Kansas? should be privileged to vote "yes" or "no" as to whether or There was no objection. not they desire any increase in the power of the Federal Mr. DWORSHAK. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent Government at the expense of the States, the municipalities, to extend my own remarks in the RECORD and to include or themselves. therein a general memorial adopted by the Legislature of At the present time it appears that the bill will become a the State of Idaho. law and will be tested before the Supreme Court. This is in The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the request of the accordance with the desire of those whose reasons for spon­ gentleman from Idaho? · soring the bill have not yet become clear. Just why they There was no objection. adopted this method when other and speedier methods were LEAVE OF ABSENCE available is likewise a mystery, but I venture the prediction that unless the Court rules contrary to all established prece­ By unanimous consent, at the request of Mr. VINSON of dents that it will declare this bill to be unconstitutional by a Georgia, leave of absence was granted to the following mem­ decisive majority. bers of the Naval Affairs Committee for next week on account When that day comes, if it does, we may then proceed in a of official business: Mr. VINSON of Georgia, Mr. MAAS, Mr. proper and orderly manner to give the people of these United MOTT, Mr. SUTPHIN, Mr. COLE of New York, Mr. SHANNON, Mr. States an opportunity to express .their will, and that oppor­ BATES, Mr. HESS, Mr. JACOBSEN, Mr. HAVENNER, Mr. EATON of tunity can be extended in a way which will limit the granting california, Mr. GRIFFITH, Mr. VINCENT of Kentucky, Mr. of new power to the Federal Government to the specific objec­ CANNON of Florida, Mr. MAGNUSON, and Mr. JEFFRIES. tives of this bill or such other specific objectives as may be SENATE BILLS REFERRED included in the amendment. By this method the people can Bills of the Senate of the following titles were taken from secure this tax if they want it without endangering in the the Speaker's table and, under the rule, referred as follows: slightest the sovereign power of their States and municipali­ S. 88. An act referring the claims of the Turtle Mountain ties. I favor this method. Band or Bands of Chippewa Indians of North Dakota to the In closing I emphasize that I never opposed the idea that Court of Claims for finding of fact and recommendations of taxes should fall equally upon all persons in proportion to the Congress; to the Committee on Indian Affairs. their ability to pay. What I opposed was the method employed S. 414. An act for the relief of the Indians of the Fort Ber­ for so doing, and the fact that the people of Pennsylvania will thold Reservation in North Dakota; to the Committee on suffer an unjust tax burden as compared with the 31 States Indian Affairs. which impose State income taxes. S.l115. An act for the relief of Lt. Malcolm A. Hufty, Regardless of the fate of this bill and regardless of how United States Navy; to the Committee on Claims. popular it may be, I feel that I would not have been display­ ing much courage if I had not done all that I could to defeat ADJOURNMENT it. No one can possibly attribute any motive to my actions Mr. LUDLOW. Mr. Speaker, I move that the House do except a sincere conviction that this bill was a bad bill predi­ now adjourn. cated on unwholesome principles, and one which was not The motion was agreed to; accordingly Cat 4 o'clock and 55 reciprocal for my State and district. minutes p. m.) the House, in accordance with its previous In any event, right or wrong, I do not choose to be a rubber order, adjourned until Monday, February 27, 1939, at 12 · stamp for any President, pressure group, editorial writer, o'clock noon. 1890 CO·NGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE .FEBRUARY 24 COMMITI'EE HEARINGS EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS, ETC. COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS Under clause 2 of rule XXIV; executive communications Public hearings will continue Monday morning, February were taken from the Speaker's table and referred as follows': 27, 1939, at 10 a.m., on social-security legislation, in the Ways 462. A letter from· the Acting Secretary of the Interior, and Means Committee room in the New House Office Building. transmitting the draft of a proposed bill to empower and au­ thorize special agents and such other employees of the Divi.:. COMMITTEE ON THE POST OFFICE AND POST ROADS sian of Investigations, Department of Justice, as are desig­ There will be a meeting of the Committee on the Post nated by the Secretary of the Interior to administer oaths Office and Post Roads in the committee hearing room in the in the performance of their official duties; to the Committee House Office Building, Tuesday, February 28, ~939, at 10 a. m., on the Public Lands. for the public consideration of H. R. 3812. 463. A letter from the president, UDlted States Civil Serv~ COMMITTEE ON RIVERS AND HARBORS ice Commission, transmitting the Eighteenth Annual Report The Committee on Rivers and Harbors will meet Tuesday, of the Board of Actuaries (H. Doc. No. 179); to the Com• February 28, 1939, at 10:30 a. m., to begin hearings on H. R. mittee on the Civil Service and ordered to be printed. 3222 and H. R. 3223, bills for the completion of the construc­ tion of the Atlantic-Gulf Ship Canal across Florida. REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON PUBLIC BILLS AND The Coilliil,ittee on Rivers and Harbors will meet Friday, RESOLUTIONS March 3, 1939, at 10:30 a. m., to hold hearings on H. R. 295, Under clause 2 of rule XIII, H. R. 922, H. R. 2890, H. R. 4170, and H. R. 4314, all bills for Mr. LUDLOW: Committee on App_ropriations. H. R. 4492. the control of water pollution. A bill making appropriations for the Treasury and Post COMMITTEE ON INTERSTATE AND FOREIGN COMMERCE Office Departments for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1940, There will be a meeting of the wool subcommittee of the and for other purposes; without amendment (Rept. No. 98). Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce, at 2 o'clock Referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the state p.m., Wednesday, March 1, 1939. Business to be considered: of the Union. Opposition to wool-labeling bill, H. R. 944. Mr. DOXEY: Committee on Agriculture. H. R. 913. A COMMITTEE ON IMl\fiGRATION AND NATURALIZATION bill to prohibit the unauthorized use of the name or insignia There will be a meeting of the Committee on Immigration of the 4-H clubs, and for other purposes; without amend­ and Naturalization at 10:30 a.m. \Vednesday, March 1, 1939, ment