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SYNOPSIS OF DEBATES (Proceedings other than Questions & Answers) ______

Thursday, December 11, 2014 / Agrahayana 20, 1936 (Saka) ______

OBITUARY REFERENCE

HON'BLE SPEAKER: Hon'ble Members, I have to inform the House of the sad demise of Shri Anna Joshi.

Shri Anna Joshi was a member of the Tenth Lok Sabha representing the

Pune Parliamentary Constituency of . Shri Joshi was a member of the

Maharashtra Legislative Assembly for three terms. He also served as the Deputy

Speaker of the Maharashtra Legislative Assembly. Shri Joshi also served as the

Deputy Mayor of Pune Municipal Corporation and the Chairman of the

Maharashtra Khadi Gramodyog Mahamandal. He strove relentlessly for ameliorating the lot of the poor and backward sections of the society. A widely travelled person, Shri Joshi was a member of Indian Parliamentary Delegation to

United States of America for studying electoral systems of Presidential and other forms of Government.

Shri Anna Joshi passed away on 10 December, 2014 in Pune at the age of

79. We deeply mourn the loss of Shri Anna Joshi and convey our condolences to the bereaved family.

The Members then stood in silence for a short while.

FELICITATION BY SPEAKER

HON'BLE SPEAKER: I, on my own behalf and on behalf of this House, congratulate the Indian visually impaired cricket team for winning the world cup for the blind, 2014 by defeating Pakistan in the final match on 8th December 2014 in Capetown, South Africa. Such outstanding achievement of this team is a matter of National Pride.

We convey our best wishes to our visually impaired team members for their future endeavors.

SUBMISSION BY MEMBERS

Re: Reported incident of conversion in Uttar Pradesh.

THE MINISTER OF STATE OF THE MINISTRY OF SKILL

DEVELOPMENT AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP AND MINISTER OF

STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI

RAJIV PRATAP RUDY) responding to the issue raised by several Hon'ble

Members said: It has been the tradition of the House to discuss issues. They have raised the issue. The Government has already accepted it and is ready for a full fledged discussion. I agree with the issue raised by them. However, a proper notice should be given.

*MATTERS UNDER RULE 377

(i) SHRI OM BIRLA laid a statement regarding need to accord early approval

to the Parwan irrigation cum drinking water supply project in Jhalawar

district, Rajasthan.

(ii) DR. HEENA VIJAYKUMAR GAVIT laid a statement regarding need to

convert forest villages into revenue villages in Nandurbar Parliamentary

Constituency, Maharashtra.

(iii) SHRI HARIOM SINGH RATHORE laid a statement regarding need to

stop telecast of serial on Maharana Pratap depicting false historical facts.

(iv) MAJ. GEN. (RETD.) B.C. KHANDURI, AVSM laid a statement

regarding need to ensure livelihood and social security of persons hailing

from Uttarakhand trained in Guerrilla warfare and who rendered their

services during Bangladesh war and in various covert operations.

(v) SHRI C.R. CHAUDHARY laid a statement regarding need to undertake

electrification of hamlets in Western Rajasthan under Rajiv Gandhi Grameen

Vidyutikaran Yojan.

* Laid on the Table as directed by the Speaker. (vi) SHRI RAJESH VERMA laid a statement regarding need to construct a

dam on river Sharada in Sitapur Parliamentary Constituency, Uttar Pradesh.

(vii) SHRI RATTAN LAL KATARIA laid a statement regarding need to

provide a package for all-round development of Ambala Parliamentary

Constituency, Haryana.

(viii) SHRI KAPIL MORESHWAR PATIL laid a statement regarding need to

construct underpasses on National Highway No. 3 in Bhiwandi

Parliamentary Constituency, Maharashtra.

(ix) SHRI KODIKUNNIL SURESH laid a statement regarding need to start

construction of ESI Medical College at Mavelikkara and start the operation

of Paramedical institute at Ezhukone in Kerala.

(x) SHRI R.K. BHARATHI MOHAN laid a statement regarding need to

provide adequate railway services and passenger facilities at Kumbakonam

railway Station in Tamil Nadu in view of the Mahamaham Festival in 2016.

(xi) SHRI T. RADHAKRISHNAN laid a statement regarding need to expedite

setting up of an AIIMS like Institute at Thoppur in Virudhunagar

Parliamentary Constituency, Tamil Nadu.

(xii) SHRIMATI APARUPA PODDAR laid a statement regarding need to set

up a Bio-Entrepreneurship Institute at Radhanagar, Hooghly district, West

Bengal and also promote Radhanagar, the birth place of Raja Ram Mohan

Roy as a tourist place. (xiii) SHRI BHARTRUHARI MAHTAB laid a statement regarding need to

restore the CST at the rate of 4% till the implementation of Goods and

Services Tax in Odisha.

(xiv) DR. SHRIKANT EKNATH SHINDE laid a statement regarding need to

look into the incident of release of hazardous waste in Waldhuni river in

Ulhasnagar in Maharashtra severely affecting scores of people of the area.

STATUTORY RESOLUTION

Re: Disapproval of Coal Mines (Special Provisions) Ordinance, 2014

(No. 5 of 2014)

And

Coal Mines (Special Provisions) Bill, 2014

SHRI C.N. JAYADEVAN moved that this House disapproves of the Coal

Mines (Special Provisions) Ordinance, 2014 (No. 5 of 2014) promulgated by the

President on 21st October, 2014.

THE MINISTER OF STATE OF THE MINISTRY OF POWER,

MINISTER OF STATE OF THE MINISTRY OF COAL AND MINISTER

OF STATE OF THE MINISTRY OF NEW AND RENEWABLE ENERGY

(SHRI PIYUSH GOYAL) moved that the Bill to provide for allocation of coal mines and vesting of the right, title and interest in and over the land and mine infrastructure together with mining leases to successful bidders and allottees with a view to ensure continuity in coal mining operations and production of coal, and for promoting optimum utilization of coal resources consistent with the requirement of the country in national interest and for matters connected therewith or incidental thereto, be taken into consideration.

*SHRI FEROZE VARUN GANDHI:

DISCUSSION UNDER RULE 193

Re: Situation arising due to the reported incident of religious conversions.

SHRI JYOTIRADITYA M. SCINDIA initiating said: Our country is like a bouquet with a variety of flowers, due to which the fragrance of India reaches each person in the world. This unique feature is found only in our country not in any other country. I am a Hindu but my religion does not teach me narrow mindedness and bitterness. My religion is a philosophy. The entire world is a family. In Agra

200 members belonging to 57 families were forced to convert for which they were promised ration cards and BPL cards. This was organized by the Dhrama Jagran cell of RSS and Bajarang Dal. People of several institutions said it was a home coming. It is also said that this is just a beginning and that they would convert people not only from one religion but from other religions also in Aligarh after

Agra and several other places. This programme is to divert the attention of the people from real issues before the government be it black money, infiltration from

* Please see Supplement

China and Pakistan or rail fair hike. It is a state wide programme taking place in several places. For the past seven months, agenda of this Government is polarization all over the country. Swami Vivekananda had said that India can emerge as an economic super power only when it attains spiritual power. In the past seven months 600 riots took place in Uttar Pradesh and Haryana. For the first time there was an environment of insecurity in Delhi during the Tazia Procession.

A Church was also burnt in Delhi. The country will develop only when its soul is preserved. A minister in this Government said a certain holy book should be declared the national scripture. Regarding Taj Mahal it is said that it was a part of the ancient Tejo Mahalaya temple. It is the responsibility of the Government to safeguard the constitution.

SHRI SUMEDHANAND SARSWATI: A small incident has been blown to very sensitive proportions. There cannot be two opinions that our country has had great faith in religion forever. This country embraced all the people who came here. Go through the History to know which culture has set the tone for religious conversion. Eleven thousand soldiers of Veer Banda Beragi were beheaded because they refused to convert to Islam. In Punjab the wall of Sarhind is the testimony of this. What was the fault of four children of Guru Gobind Singh Ji out of which two were hanged and two were buried in the wall? Max Mullar and

Macaulay propagated Christianity in India in the name of education. Gandhiji has written that Hindus were converted into Christianity in the entire country by giving them some allurement. The entire eastern region is a witness to the fact that conversion is being forced by giving some allurement. An issue was raised in this very House that a law should be enacted to prevent conversion but this idea was opposed and no such law was allowed to be passed. Every individual is independent and he can convert to any faith. The Bhartiya Janata Party is not in favour of conversion in this country. In the name of Jihad poor Hindus are being converted even today. It is done under a conspiracy in the country.

SHRI P. KUMAR: We are for taking all the communities together. We believe in equal respect for all religions. No religion in Tamil Nadu fails to get the patronage of the State Government as we respect all the religious faith. Our

Government helps all the people belonging to all the religions. Thus our State

Government takes all possible measures to maintain communal harmony. As we strongly believe that religion is an individual choice with constitutional protection.

As we do not believe in discriminating on the basis of religion, we are insisting on reservation to be extended to Dalit Christians. Our Party strongly believes in unity in diversity and we have made sure that Tamil Nadu is free from communal clashes.

PROF. SAUGATA ROY: In Agra in slum cluster called Madhunagar, 200

Muslims were converted to Hinduism in a religious function called ghar wapsi, getting back to home. They were promised ration card and houses. I would like the House to unanimously adopt a resolution saying that conversion is not the philosophy of this country and the whole House stands against religious conversion. When economic relief will not available, then religious divisive issues will be raised. What is happening in this country? In Delhi, a church was vandalized. We all know about Muzaffarnagar riots and how they polarized the society in UP. It gave political benefit to a certain political party. The problem today is that, the Vice-Chancellors are being appointed on political and communal basis. The president of the ICHR, Indian Council of Historical Research, has no other subject expect to find out the exact date of Ramayana and Mahabharata.

Now, there is a difference between mythology, epics and actual solid history. Let this great country, with a 5000-year old tradition, not be divided asunder on the basis of religion, caste or community. Let us together march towards the future in a united way as was envisaged in the Constitution.

SHRI BHARTRUHARI MAHTAB: It was in late 1950s, a Bill was moved in Odisha Assembly to restrict conversion. A large number of conversions were talking place, especially in the tribal areas of Odisha. It was a concern not only in Odisha but also in the undivided Madhya Pradesh, undivided Bihar, parts of Bengal and large parts of North-East. But the attempt was first made in 1959, a

Bill was moved. The Bill was passed by the Assembly but before it could get the assent from Rashtrapatiji, the House fell. In the 1970s when the Congress

Government was in power in Odisha, the Government moved the Supreme Court.

I am mentioning all this so that we can understand, cutting across party lines, how the anti-conversation idea has moved in this country. All persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience, and the right freely to profess, practice and propagate religion. But when I profess, when I propagate, when I practice, if somebody else is hit, if somebody else is offended, if somebody else feels bad about it, then, public order is disturbed. Who is incharge of public order? It is the

State machinery, the State Government. Orissa Act, even today, gives sole responsibility to the district magistrate to maintain public order. Under this Act one has to seek permission from the district magistrate and furnish information about when and where this conversion is going to take place. Then the district authorities find out whether the person to be converted has been induced, and is being coerced. It cuts across each religion. Therefore I would request in this

House that every State Government should adopt that Act of Odisha.

SHRI : I am proud of the fact that my party talks of

Hindutva, not of any religion. We know that our country comprises states formed on linguistic basis. Each state has its own language. But we should rise above regionalism and talk of the issues concerning the country. Hindutva unites all these different states of the country. Therefore need of the hour is that we stand by

Hindutva and bring unity in our country. Today this discussion on religious conversion is taking place in this House. But I want to ask my colleagues as to why this discussion was not held when our tribals were converted to Christianity and our women were converted to Islam. Therefore I strongly condemn the persons who have raised this issue and are criticizing Hindutva in order to lure

Muslim votes.

SHRI MULAYAM SINGH YADAV: During our freedom struggle

Mahatma Gandhi had said that no discrimination will be done in the name of religion or caste after the country has attained independence. But today polarization is taking place in the name of caste and religion. Even I have been victim of this discrimination. There was a time when I had to face social boycott from my own community for having meal with one of my colleagues belonging to

Schedule Caste. At the time a ‘Jati-Todo’ Andolan was launched by Dr. Ram

Manohar Lohia wherein community feast was organized. However, I want to say that if we resolve to stop this discrimination, it will definitely be stopped. Today we are having discussion on the incidents occurred in Agra. But I want to inform the House that even Agra and its nearby areas have been least affected by these incidents. So I have failed to understand why this unnecessary discussion is going on here in this House. Rather, I want to say that today marriages are taking place by breaking the barriers of caste and religion. So I want to say that if we have to strengthen our society and country at large, we should take pledge not to discriminate in the name of caste or religion or color. We should also pass a resolution in this regard that we will not discriminate against anyone. This will send a positive message to the country. SHRI H.D. DEVEGOWDA: The agenda of the Prime Minister is to see that various countries should come and invest for the development of this nation.

It is not development for one, it is for the development of the nation. So far as our state is concerned, we have give reservation - political reservation, economic reservation and job oriented reservation – to Muslim minorities. As the agenda of this Government is to bring the country forward in all aspect, then division of society, to polarize it by any means is not going to help achieve this goal.

SHRI KONDA VISHWESHWAR REDDY: Both sides of the House agree that forced or lured conversion is undesirable for our country. Actually, I feel that we, as a country are a little bit strengthened after this discussion. I am extremely happy that every Member, as also our Party, agrees that we do not believe in forced or lured conversions.

SHRI MOHAMMAD SALIM: What happened in Agra is a very serious matter. Our Constitution does not permit for forced or lured conversion. On the one hand, we talk of the smart cities and we talk of burning slums on the other.

This is double standard, this should not happen. But, here the victims of conversion were rag-pickers who did not have Ration Card and Aadhar Card. This is entirely a wrong thing in our secular country and the entire House should come forward in its protest. What happened in Agra was not an ordinary matter.

Although the conversion changes the way of worship but it does not change the social, economic or cultural status of the converts. Until and unless the social, political and economic condition change, it is a big challenge before the

Government.

SHRI MEKAPATI RAJA MOHAN REDDY: Our party is of the view that nothing should be done by coercion or by pressure or by force taking the advantage of somebody’s backwardness or poverty. First of all, we should all think that we are all Indians then, we belong to some caste or religion. Nobody should try to harm the integrity and unity of this country.

SHRI TARIQ ANWAR: The Constitution of our country does not permit for forced or lured conversion. Our country believes in Sarva dharma Sambhav.

Today, the basic structure of our country is being attacked. And this is being done under a well-thought conspiracy. The intelligentsia, print and electronic media all have condemned this incidence. We should not forget our struggle for independence. We won the struggle for independence because we all were united.

Today, the people of the country are feeling that we are doing politics at the cost of integrity and unity of our country. Our country comes before our vested interests and we should see to it that our country should not lose at any cost. Those who were converted have said that they did so because they were given allurement like providing them BPL and ration cards. It is not fair to divide our society on religion lines. We are passing through a difficult time and we should not take these things lightly. We have already paid a big cost at the time of partition of our country in 1947. We should not try to repeat the same thing now. We have to save the composite culture of our country.

*SHRI M. MURLI MOHAN:

SHRI RAJESH RANJAN: The daughter of Pakistan, Malala Yosufzai and

Kailash Satyarthi ji of our country spread the message of peace and tranquility all over the world and won the Noble Peace Prize. Can any daughter or son of our country not challenge the fundamentalists here as was done by Malala in Pakistan?

Is it not a big question? Nehru Ji and Gandhi Ji had said that India cannot progress until it remains engaged in caste and religious strife, poor are not respected and until starvation keeps on breeding naxalism. India cannot be honored until people keep on baying for blood of each other in the name of caste and religion.

SHRI RAJENDRA AGRAWAL: I would like to say one thing that you can neither ignore nor invalidate the history. We have neglected the history and we have failed to address the issues arising out of it. Consequently on one hand partition of country took place and on the other Kashmir problem arose. We have to address this problem. Unless we address this problem and find a solution of it by making conscious effort it cannot be solved. Our hon. Prime Minister always talks about all the 125 crore people of the country. I would like to say as to what thinking has led the Prime Minister to remark that the first right on the resources of the country lies with Muslims. During election campaign media persons used to

* Please see Supplement ask our present Prime Minister about the security of the countrymen and used to give an assurance that security will be given to all. When the question about the security of minorities was asked he came out with the response that the

Government would provide security to every citizen of the country whose security is threatened. This is the spirit which guides us. All the problems are arising due to Hindu-Muslim divide.

SHRI PREM SINGH CHANDUMAJRA: If we are to develop and maintain harmony in the country then we have to learn our lessons from the sacrifice made by the martyrs in the past. We have to learn from history and have a faith in the equality among mankind if we are to take this country forward.

SHRI E. T. MOHAMMAD BASHEER: As far as this Government is concerned, my only complaint is this. This Government is not discouraging communal hate. On the other hand, they are encouraging communal hate for achieving their political ends. Every day they are creating controversies and are adding fuel to the fire. As far as India is concerned, it is a multi-religious, multi- cultural nation. As far as we are concerned, we are duty-bound to keep it up. I wish to say that we, the people of India, who are having a commitment to this value, should work together to put an end to this kind of an agenda of forced conversion. I hope that wisdom will prevail upon everybody to condole conversion and maintain communal harmony in this country. SHRI KAUSHALENDRA KUMAR: We are the citizens of the largest democracy in the world. The provision of harmony among the various castes and religions has been the cornerstone of our constitution. It is unfortunate that we are fighting in the name of caste and religion. It is the responsibility of all of us that we don’t allow this country to divide.

SHRI BHAGWANT MANN: Our country is like a bouquet having different varieties of flowers in it. Ideally, politics should have learnt from religion but what actually is happening is that politics has started to preach the religion.

What do our youth want today? Lakhs of youth are unemployed. They want to get higher education and find employment in the country. People are craving for facilities like electricity, water and health facilities and we political people are discussing religion in the House. Lastly I would appeal not to politicize religion.

SHRI ASADUDDIN OWAISI: I would like to ask the Government and also in regard to what the hon. Minister was saying and what is being discussed, what exactly is the jurisdiction of article 341 in the India political system? Isn’t it beyond religion? Why don’t you invoke it? Hon. Minister of Parliamentary

Affairs says that a new law should be formulated. The Government wants to bring in FDI in the country. I would like to know is this the way by which you want to bring FDI in the country. Will these activities creating fear psychosis and causing communal strife lead to growth and strengthening of India? SHRI N.K. PREMACHANDRAN: On one hand, several positive things about our country are being projected all over the world and on the other hand absolutely opposite is being practiced here in the country. When we talk about investment in the country, technological upgradation in the country, technology unifies the whole world and the people irrespective of religion or caste.

Conversion, in any form – whether it is conversion or re-conversion if it is done with undue influence, coercion and force, definitely it is a crime. It is nothing but exploitation of the social backwardness of the people and it is really a crime.

Definitely it has to be stopped.

*SHRI C.N. JAYADEVAN:

SHRIMATI RANJEET RANJAN: The leaders of the ruling party of the day made hefty promises during electioneering. They are doing absolutely opposite to what they claimed now when they are in power. This is unfortunate that we see two faces of the government. One is which shows rosy pictures to the poor when they tour foreign countries and the other is where the grassroots workers are indulging in conversion. Two of the Guru Gobind Singh's sons were martyred in war and two were buried alive in the wall for protecting Hinduism.

Guru Gobind Singhji was not against muslims rather he was against injustice. I am sure the youth of the nation cannot be misled in the name of religion.

* Please see Supplement. ** ** ** **

ANOOP MISHRA, Secretary-General.

**Supplement covering rest of the proceedings is being issued separately. © 2014 BY LOK SABHA SECRETARIAT NOTE: It is the verbatim Debates of the Lok Sabha and not the Synopsis that should be considered authoritative.

English and Hindi versions of Synopsis of Debates are also available at http://loksabha.nic.in.