7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2020
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Someone Knows Something, Season 1 -- Terminus
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
VOICE 1: There’s evil living here.
ANNOUNCER: From executive producer Jordan Peele.
VOICE 3: I think there's Nazis living in America, and someone out there is taking them out.
[Music]
ANNOUNCER: Now.
VOICE 4: You put together a group of Nazi hunters?
ANNOUNCER: Revenge is righteous.
[Music]
ANNOUNCER: Al Pacino in his first television series.
VOICE 5: Have you had enough?
Because there’s more.
[Music]
ANNOUNCER: Watch the Amazon original series, “Hunters”.
New series, watch now.
Only on Amazon Prime Video.
[Music]
ANNOUNCER: This is a CBC Podcast.
VOICE 1: The following program contains mature subject matter. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 1/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio [Music]
VOICE 1: You're listening to Someone Knows Something from CBC Radio.
In 1972, five-year-old Adrien McNaughton vanished while on a fishing trip in Eastern Ontario. Documentarian David Ridgen goes back to the small town he grew up in, searching for answers.
RIDGEN: You know, it's-- it's a strange thing to have your family story out there. But it dawned on me that if you talk to almost any family, you discover that they had extraordinary events. Everybody's story...you could make into a movie. In everything we do, we make stories because it helps the world to make sense. And piecing together the story of Adrien McNaughton's disappearance is no different.
MURRAY: Well, that's what I figured. They had a winter coat on, 'cause of the skidders, actually, the next next day in the heat, he would have taken it off.
BARBARA: But Murray, I don't remember that it was a winter coat.
MURRAY: Well, I know it was a heavy coat.
BARBARA: I don't remember that it was a winter coat. I think someone has taken him. That's-- and I don't know if I'm saying that, that I hope that that's what has happened...or I really think that's what has happened.
RIDGEN: We can trick ourselves into believing anything, filling gaps where there's nothing.
BARBARA: Well, a lot of people blamed Murray for it. Yeah, I remember one was, uh, Murray had just got out of jail. And he'd murdered him.
MURRAY: Yeah, there was all kinds of accusations made. There was really ridiculous things like somebody found him nailed to the bottom of a boat. There was crap like that. Some girl accused me directly, said oh, she knew that I did it. I won't be accused of doing something I didn't do. VOICE 1: The one theory that I think is most plausible to me is he was traveling along the roadway back to the car for something and another fishing party or something came around the corner in a car and ran over him.
RIDGEN: Adrien's eldest brother, Lee.
LEE: Well, they want resolution. We don't do well with the unknown. And with that, we want resolution, we want certainty, we want clarity. But unfortunately, that is not this life we have. And so, I think all those people who had rumours and theories, well of course that's what it is. It's a conclusion for them. It's an end. We don't have to live in this mystery of not knowing.
[Music]
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 2/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio LEE: Like, I still, every once in a while, sometime during the summer, if I'm in the right place, I like to lie out on the lawn that night, and look up into the stars, and see this vast expanse of interstellar space. And there's this sense of, I'm just so little to this, but in a weird way I am comforted. By this massive unknowing out there, you know. There-- I weirdly-- I weirdly am comforted by it.
[Music]
RIDGEN: And in finding new information to try to fill the void of not knowing, we at Someone Knows Something shaped our own story out of the mystery of Adrien's disappearance.
LEE: I-- as I think-- our very first conversation I had with you, I worried what was your take gonna be? What were you gonna-- you know, did you have conclusions that you were planning on? But I think you let the story tell itself in that way. I think the only disappointment I've had listening to it is not listening to it as much as...is it actually having an impact? Is it actually...you know, the title is Someone Knows Something. But what if no one knows anything?
[Music]
RIDGEN: Throughout our episodes in this series, we've received dozens and dozens of messages from listeners who said they knew something. From taking part in the search for Adrien McNaughton or knowing someone who had, to having their own theories as to what happened. We started with what was known in 1972. One man, Doug Irwin, remembered two sets of footprints being found that led searchers nowhere.
DOUG: Looked like a little boy's running shoe, and a man's moccasin, as it was flat and you could just see that where the ball of the foot hit, the heel, the ball of the foot, and the pose. And I remember those tracks well.
RIDGEN: Another person's account of the search comes from Adrien's cousin, Brad Lee, a tall, skinny 15-year-old at the time, who was lowered into a swamp with ropes around his body in case he got stuck.
BRAD: You know what, it's like probably the closest thing to quicksand I've ever been in. It was still kinda not think. You could move around, but you-- it wouldn't hold your weight. You sunk right to the bottom. They tied like two ropes on me. I just-- just used that stick and kept-- they'd tell me poke here, over here. Poke over there, now walk this way. Ain't anything in the one I searched; you know?
RIDGEN: Poking with a stick to feel for a human body.
BRAD: And, I guess if you'd have been in there, there would have been like an article of clothing, and you would have saw something, you know? And I remember getting out there, and just going in the lake, and getting all that stuff off of me, you know? https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 3/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio RIDGEN: And now, well over 40 years later, even the original searchers, such as former Ministry of Natural Resources employee Hugh Allore, feel they know something that might help.
HUGH: It was well covered, eh? Like, I-- I know every speck of the ground we saw by me, and I think he was taken. And my theory is that he was taken by a bear, or something would have been found. Like his cap. He's supposed to have had a cap. I don't hear that in any of those episodes. But doesn't matter, a kid that age, they would have found his running shoes and all that stuff, so...
[Music]
RIDGEN: And as we've been continuing our investigation, we've also been tracking down any of the viable leads and tips we've received in the wake of those episodes. A woman in Nanaimo, BC, named Sylvia, wrote to say after the sketches were released that she had seen and spoken to an Adrien lookalike in a London drug store. In a later email, Sylvia said she didn't live in Nanaimo, and hadn't been back to the drug store. And what about the people of Clyde Forks? The minister on the list who was there in 1972. Gail Campbell, whose house for sale I walked into, or Buddy Close, the fellow that the man in the truck Doug Buker suggested I speak to.
[Car door closing]
[Footsteps]
RIDGEN: I'm in the Perth, Ontario parking lot of Tim Hortons. And I'm going to call some of these folks that used to live up in Clyde Forks. So, the first person I'm going to call is Gail Campbell.
[Dialing on the phone]
ANSWERING MACHINE: Please leave your message--
[Beep]
RIDGEN: Hi, this message is for Gail Campbell. My name's David Ridgen, I work for CBC Television and Radio in Toronto. And I'm...
Nan Barker, the woman who was listed as the minister of Clyde Forks United Church in 1972 has passed away. But the minister who replaced her in 1973, Paul Currie, is still alive, and I managed to reach him on the phone. At the time, Currie was an itinerant minister, serving several small community churches.
PAUL: I was there from May 'till August, serving the church there.
RIDGEN: So, do you recall anything that could be helpful with regards to Adrien, five-year-old boy coming to Clyde Forks back in June 1972?
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 4/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio PAUL: I don't remember children at all. What I do remember is a few of the homes across from the church had dirt floors and no electricity. Wonderful people, but no children. And it wasn't because it was totally summer school vacation. I was there in May and June. Just no recollection of kids, and either they were all hidden away, or they just didn't exist.
RIDGEN: Hidden away. That's interesting that...
PAUL: Well, I say that because when I went to visit in people's homes, and on the farms in the area too, they were just very dark places where nobody really seemed to go out much.
RIDGEN: You think it's possible, then, that somebody could have raised a child there. Unknown to you or to others.
PAUL: Oh, yeah.
RIDGEN: Sorry?
PAUL: Definitely. Definitely, because of the-- just, things were hidden.
[Music]
RIDGEN: And Gail Campbell calls me back.
Do you remember anybody in '72, any young boy or any new kid coming into the community?
GAIL: No. No, there'd be nobody came in.
[Chuckles]
GAIL: Or we didn't know. Like, we knew everybody who lived there.
RIDGEN: And do you think it would have been possible for anybody in Clyde Forks or the area, maybe Flower Station even, to keep a child without letting anybody else know?
GAIL: Oh, no. No, everybody would be suspicious and wonder.
RIDGEN: And finally, Buddy Close.
Were there many kids up in Clyde Forks at your time?
MARIE: Um, there was-- was quite a few--
RIDGEN: Like they're cool or--
MARIE: Yeah.
RIDGEN: But they all belonged to people. Like, you knew you-- https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 5/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio MARIE: Yes, that's right.
RIDGEN: --you knew that they had had the babies and things like that.
MARIE: Yes.
BUDDY: Yeah, they all were up there. They're all--
RIDGEN: There was never any kind of a suspicious, "Where did that kid come from, suddenly?"
MARIE: No, not really.
RIDGEN: Mmm.
MARIE: Hmm.
RIDGEN: So, here's a picture-- here's a picture of Adrien as a young boy. I'll show it to you first, Buddy, you want to take that and have a look?
MARIE: Oh yeah, okay.
BUDDY: I never see them.
MARIE: I don't remember anything about that little boy. He's a cute little boy, I don't know.
RIDGEN: I could print out this little picture of him as a-- as a little boy and send-- mail it to you. And any time you come across someone who's from the Forks, older, show it to them.
MARIE: Yes.
RIDGEN: "Do you remember this little boy?" That would help.
MARIE: Okay.
[Music]
RIDGEN: Ontario Vital Statistics confirms that there were not a lot of children living in Clyde Forks in the early 70s. For privacy reasons, they say they can't tell us the exact number born each year between 1965 and 1975, because fewer than five babies were born overall. Since the number's so small, their thinking is that if they told us, we could guess the names of the people, and therefore, invade their privacy. Despite Minister Currie's recollections of dirt floors and secrecy, I'm pretty sure Adrien didn't end up there. John Gervais' revelation about seeing a black and white '56 Dodge parked at Holmes Lake close to the time Adrien disappeared brought back a few tips. We'd contacted Chrysler and asked for a list of similar cars in Canada and received back a number of between 14,000 and almost 28,000 such cars. We even checked the serial number of the car whose picture we used for our podcast, since the black and white combination we learned from https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 6/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio Chrysler was a custom job, and there were likely not many like it then, and certainly not now. But the serial number revealed nothing. And the current owner of that car is not the owner who had it in 1972. We've been posting the car picture on various forums throughout the country, and a listener had done the same on a local forum. That listener's information led us here.
[Knocking]
VOICE 1: Hello.
RIDGEN: Your dad here? Hi.
DUANE: What's going on?
RIDGEN: Are you Duane?
DUANE: Possibly.
RIDGEN: It's okay. My name's David, I work for CBC Radio.
DUANE: Yes, sir.
RIDGEN: And I got a story to tell you.
DUANE: What's that?
RIDGEN: Here's my card, first of all. So, I'm working on a case that involves an old 1956 Dodge car, and I saw online, looking in this area, on a board that you posted that your grandpa used to own one.
DUANE: Years ago.
RIDGEN: A black '56?
DUANE: Uh, possibly, yeah.
RIDGEN: Now, do you remember seeing it.
DUANE: No. That was way before I was born. Okay, yeah.
RIDGEN: And you just knew of it. You just--
DUANE: I was talking to my dad about it.
RIDGEN: Is he still alive, your grandpa?
DUANE: No, my grandfather's not.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 7/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio RIDGEN: Oh, do you know what-- the case I'm talking about?
DUANE: No.
RIDGEN: Oh, okay. So, I'm-- I'm working on a radio podcast.
DUANE: Oh, not the McNaughton one, eh?
RIDGEN: Yes, yeah. Yeah, so...
DUANE: Come on in, then.
RIDGEN: Sorry to interrupt at suppertime, I just came in from Toronto here, so.
DUANE: No worries.
RIDGEN: I walk into Duane's semi-detached house to see his kids eating supper. Duane himself looks like he's still in his work clothes. It's a busy time of night, which is why I chose this time. But still, he's really eager to help, and we've never met before.
RIDGEN: So, what-- what happened, you know, I don't know if you listen to the things. So, what happened--
DUANE: My wife was glued to your--
RIDGEN: Oh, really?
DUANE: Yeah.
RIDGEN: Oh, okay, that's cool.
DUANE: That's right.
RIDGEN: So, my thinking is, who owned the white-- black and white car, because they may have seen someone else there, or seen something, or have some key to the case, you know? Like, you just check everything. So...
DUANE: I'm trying to think back in about...I'm a car guy. My grandfather...I can tell you every car they've ever had. That's just my-- my thing.
RIDGEN: Yeah, yeah.
DUANE: He bought his first new car in '69, so it would've been a Ford. So, he wouldn't have had a '56 back in about '72.
RIDGEN: Oh, okay. And then he got rid of it?
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 8/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio DUANE: Yeah, years and years before.
RIDGEN: Oh, okay, so the car he-- the black and -- the black car, Dodge, that he had, he got rid of before '72.
DUANE: Oh, hell yeah. Yeah, yeah.
RIDGEN: Duane disappears downstairs with his kids still cheerly eating supper in front of me. He returns with a car book.
VOICE 1: Okay, that's fine.
RIDGEN: Oh, do you got a car book?
DUANE: This is-- this is just one that I could find quick. So that was what, '56.
RIDGEN: Yeah.
VOICE 2: Do you want me to go down and look for the other ones, Dad?
DUANE: No, bud, that's okay.
RIDGEN: Then Duane's on the phone to his dad, verifying what he's told me about his grandpa's car, and finding out something else.
DUANE: I have books everywhere. Got a question for you. Grandpa's '56 Dodge, all right? Black and white. Straight black, okay. Anybody else in town have anything like that, a black '56 Dodge, that you would know of? So...you said you knew that there was another one in town, blue and white, but that's...
RIDGEN: Blue and white, eh? Wonder who owned that one.
DUANE: He's dead now, Leonard? Yeah, who was his son? That's uh--
RIDGEN: Duane finished up, giving me the blue and white Dodge owner's phone number.
DUANE: Oh, no, that was-- you were awesome...
RIDGEN: And I'm off again and will look into it down the road.
Okay, take care, guys. Nice night!
We expect to continue getting tips like this as time goes forward and new waves of listeners discover this story. We'll look into anything we think is viable. Back to Lee McNaughton.
So, what did you think of the dive episode?
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 9/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio LEE: Well, it was a difficult thing, but these divers...it's the needle in a haystack sort of thing. A haystack that's underwater, with poor visibility, really cold, you know. So, you're putting a lot in this basket, which may come to fruition and show something, or it may not.
RIDGEN: The process of finding information in an investigation can help you to focus the narrative of what might have happened. But sometimes, the force of that trajectory can take on a life of its own. Hence the dogs, the dive, the basket. And now, the next step.
[Dialing on the phone]
ANSWERING MACHINE: Ontario Provincial Police. If you are calling from a rotary phone, please remain on the line and your call will be answered.
[Line connecting]
SANDRA: Renfrew OPP, Sandra speaking.
RIDGEN: Oh, hi. Can I speak to Commander Collin Sleight please?
[Line connecting]
SLEIGHT: Inspector Sleight speaking.
RIDGEN: Ah, Inspector Sleight, it's David Ridgen calling from Toronto CBC Radio. I've been working on the Adrien McNaughton case with CBC here.
SLEIGHT: Oh yes, okay, actually I just downloaded your podcast on the weekend, but I haven't listened to them yet, but I've downloaded them. And I think a couple of the crime unit members have been listening or have listened to some of it anyway.
RIDGEN: Okay, well that's great. And is it possible that after you listen to the episodes that we can have a conversation about it on the record? I'd be interested to hear the OPP's opinion, or at least your opinion on what you think of what we've found so far.
SLEIGHT: I'd have to check and see, get authorization from-- because it's not my case. If-- if I have the approval, I don't have a problem speaking with you, that's for sure, yeah.
RIDGEN: If the Ontario Provincial Police, or OPP as they are known, are listening to the series, they'll know what we found. Adrien's case is allegedly the only unsolved cold case in Renfrew County, and our evidence is solid. But will they help?
ANNOUNCER: Good people can find themselves in bad situations.
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ANNOUNCER: The Credit Counselling Society helps Canadians manage their money or get out of debt, and they can help you. It's free. Call 1-833-30-DEBTS or visit nomoredebts.org. The Credit Counselling Society. All you've got to lose is your debt.
[Knocking]
SHONTELLE: Come on in!
[Door opening]
SHONTELLE: Hello! Dad's just in the backyard, I'll have to go get him.
RIDGEN: Oh, okay, great. Thanks.
Before I talk about the police with the family gathered once again before me, I reveal a new idea brought to us by one of our listeners. Anonymous voluntary DNA matching.
Last time I was here you told me that the police took your DNA, right?
BARBARA: Yup.
SHONTELLE: Well, it came from when they were doing the full-- age enhanced drawing, wasn't it?
RIDGEN: So, they did the other sketch. The Renfrew detachment did that sketch that we redid in 2009, and then they got your DNA and Murray's, and they-- how did they do it?
SHONTELLE: Uh...
RIDGEN: A cheek swab?
BARBARA: I think so.
MURRAY: What-- no matter we're getting the finger cut off or anything.
RIDGEN: So, somebody sent a tip in to us. Not a tip, an idea. And we thought it was a good one, and it has to do with DNA. So, there is a company in the States called "23andMe", and what 23andMe does is they take in DNA, and then they put that in their database. So, what happens then is if somebody out there thinks they're somehow been missing, or abducted, or you know, something in a similar situation as Adrien, they'll go and say here's my DNA. And so, then they match any DNA that comes, they try to match it. So, it's an opportunity to just store your DNA there, and if someday, somebody walks in and says, "I've got DNA", and it might match. So, it's something-- it's an-- it's a positive step towards the direction of perhaps Adrien's still out there. So, if you guys are interested in that, and--
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 11/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio BARBARA: I think it's a great idea, to be honest.
SHONTELLE: Who knows?
BARBARA: Any chance of finding out.
[Barbara blows lips]
RIDGEN: What do you think, Murray?
MURRAY: Oh yeah.
RIDGEN: It just increases the possibilities again. The onus is on the other party, the potentially living Adrien to come forward and say to 23andMe, "I don't know who I am", you know? Just his gut feeling...
And then I ask for the McNaughton' opinion on the podcast experience they've had so far.
What's your sort of summit of ideas that you've had through the process here?
MURRAY: I'd say you're doing a wonderful job. That's my opinion. And keep up the good work.
[Chuckles]
RIDGEN: Shontelle, who's done the most in field work with me, seems hesitant to speak, and I notice that she's tearing up a bit.
SHONTELLE: I've been kind of thinking about this coming because, as last week's episode said that Tuesday was going to be the finale of this season. And probably since the beginning I've been thinking, I can't wait for this to be over. But now, when it's actually happening, I do have some mixed emotions. It's not-- I'm not upset that the podcast is ending. But I was thinking, so then what happens? Is all the investigating going to stop? Is...is the momentum now going to stop? Is it going to be over again?
BARBARA: I think they've said it all. I think they've said it all, they really...I've had dreams and things from it all, you know? And uh, not always good, but no, I think they've pretty well said it all, and I think you've done a good job, David. And I am quite sure it's not for-- anything for show. You know? Yeah.
RIDGEN: It's a good time to introduce the idea of going to the police.
So, the next thing is, I have made a formal request to the OPP in Renfrew to discuss the case and talk about what we've come up with. Say, the black and white car, the dogs, what's happened up there. Say, the new sketches. We want to talk to the OPP in Renfrew and say, "Now what? What do you want to do with this? What do you think of what we've come up with?" And hope that they can https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 12/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio carry the ball. You know, like, I think-- Collin Sleight is the Inspector's name, and he had to get permission to give me an interview. So, any minute now, actually, I'm expecting an email from the OPP saying we're gonna do this discussion with you, or we're not.
BARBARA: Wouldn't you think that we should have some say?
MURRAY: Oh, I'm willing to go with you.
LEE: That would be cool.
SHONTELLE: I'd go.
RIDGEN: You could all come. Okay. Do you want to just come with me to Renfrew and..?
MURRAY: Oh, I think I should. Any help at all.
RIDGEN: Okay. Is it okay if I take Murray in my car? All right, well we'll-- we'll see you later, Barb. And Curtis.
BARBARA: Okay, we'll see you later.
RIDGEN: Oh yeah, so where is the one I'm going to? Is it just on main street?
SHONTELLE: Yeah, well, do you know where the town hall is?
RIDGEN: Yeah.
SHONTELLE: That's the same spot.
RIDGEN: Okay.
MURRAY: It's not the way out.
RIDGEN: Okay, so I'll see you at the courthouse Renfrew.
SHONTELLE: Yeah.
RIDGEN: Okay.
MURRAY: Hall Street.
[Door opening and closing]
[Car starting up]
RIDGEN: Main Street.
MURRAY: Brian Road. I think parking's on the stations on this street. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 13/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio RIDGEN: Oh, okay.
[Seatbelt unbuckling]
RIDGEN: Are we all ready?
SHONTELLE: Mm-hmm.
MURRAY: Hope so.
RIDGEN: Okay, let's go.
SHONTELLE: So are you gonna call him, or...
RIDGEN: Yeah, I'll give him a call.
We sit at a sun slivered picnic table about 30 feet from the entrance to what looks like a large 70s era brown brick building. A fading yellow OPP sign watches over us.
[Phone ringing]
RIDGEN: You guys hear that?
SHONTELLE: Mm-hmm.
ANSWERING MACHINE: Ontario Provincial Police. If you are calling from a rotary phone, please remain on the line and your call will be answered. One moment please.
[Line connecting]
SANDRA: Renfree OPP, Sandra speaking.
RIDGEN: Oh, hi. Can I speak to Inspector Sleight, please?
SANDRA: He's in a meeting at the moment. Could I take a message or have him return your call?
RIDGEN: Yeah, just tell him David Ridgen from CBC called, and we're outside here. We're just outside the police station if he wants to give me a call.
SANDRA: And you're outside the Raglan Street detachment?
RIDGEN: Yup, I'm sitting right outside here with the family of Adrien McNaughton, and that's the case I wanted to talk to him about.
SANDRA: Okay, all right, I'll let him know.
RIDGEN: Okay, great. Thanks. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 14/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio SANDRA: Thank you, bye-bye.
RIDGEN: Bye.
MURRAY: Well, sit down, we might be here for a while.
RIDGEN: I suspect this lad will come out rather than call me, but you never know.
[Ringtone]
RIDGEN: Hello?
SLEIGHT: Hello, David?
RIDGEN: Yeah.
SLEIGHT: Inspector Sleight speaking. How are you today?
RIDGEN: Hi, Inspector Sleight. How are you?
SLEIGHT: I'm fine. Uh, I'm just gonna give you a heads up there that I'm not gonna be in a position to speak to the podcast issues. Simply because even though I'm Detachment Commander for the area, this case is being managed by major case management. By CIB.
RIDGEN: Okay.
Inspector Sleight is saying that the case is being held by the Criminal Investigation Branch of the OPP, CIB. Headquartered in Orillia, Ontario, almost 300 kilometres away. Inspector Sleight had told me that he was going to speak to the current investigator on the McNaughton case.
Okay, so the perp-- the detective that you were saying you were gonna speak to today didn't come?
SLEIGHT: No, I did speak to him and he's just not available to speak to you today. But I'm-- from my perspective, I'm not in a position to add anything to it because it's not my file.
RIDGEN: Okay, so who-- it's CIB's file? I'm just-- I'm here with the, uh, Mr. McNaughton and Shontelle, I'm just trying to relay it to them, so they understand. They uh-- we're--
SLEIGHT: Well, because of the-- because of the-- a major case file, it's the-- it's the-- managed by CIB, and uh, they're the ones that uh...have the skill set and the resources to put through the investigation, and uh, so that's why they have the carriage of it.
RIDGEN: I see. So when can we expect some kind of response, do you think, Mr. Sleight?
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 15/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio SLEIGHT: Um...I have no plan to give you a response. You know? It's not my intent to do that. The file is...is open, and uh, you know, they'll follow up leads that are brought to their attention. And uh...that, you know, that's the best that I can offer to you.
RIDGEN: Okay. So, bringing leads to attention, I have to send the podcast to CI-- to Orillia then, is that what you suggest?
SLEIGHT: Well, it's Detective Inspector Rob Hagerman has carriage of the case.
RIDGEN: Okay, so if I discuss or send to Rob Ha-- [email protected] the podcast, then that might get things going, you think?
SLEIGHT: Uh, well, that would put you in touch with him.
RIDGEN: Okay.
SLEIGHT: He'd be the one that would be able to talk to you because I don't have the information that-- as the case manager, it's their file to address. In our organization, the detachment does not do any media relations with-- with respect to CIB cases. They manage their own media releases.
RIDGEN: But-- sorry, didn't you tell me that you would be able to talk to me if you got permission? Didn't that-- isn't that what--
SLEIGHT: Yeah, and I don't-- I don't have that permission.
RIDGEN: I see. I see, okay. All right. Thanks for calling. And we'll, uh-- we'll get-- we'll certainly be back in touch.
SLEIGHT: Yeah.
RIDGEN: Thanks a lot.
SLEIGHT: Bye.
RIDGEN: 'Kay. Well.
MURRAY: Wasted effort.
RIDGEN: It's typical of the uh...conundrum of dealing with bureaucratic police. And nobody wants to commit to anything until the boss says it's okay. And yeah, to some extent it's understandable, but...
MURRAY: Discouraging is one word.
SHONTELLE: Well, my thoughts are too, what's the big deal? It's a 43-year-old case, but we're trying. Let's keep trying. We're not here to criticize anybody. Or how things were done, or...we're https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 16/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio not here to make anyone look bad either, but I mean...
RIDGEN: Okay, well, I guess we just have to hope that uh...the officer he named, when he listens to the podcast, he sees his way fit to respond to the family. We'll get an answer, we'll get an answer eventually, we will. Okay, see ya, Shontelle.
There's significant evidence here, and the police should pursue it. And there's also something significant on the dive front to add to everything else.
KIM: So, the results of the dive were no surprise. We were prepared at that point to just let it go. And actually, the divers contacted us. They weren't prepared to let it go.
RIDGEN: A week after the dive we conducted for human remains at Holmes Lake, the dive where we found only a sock that almost for sure did not belong to Adrien McNaughton, Kim Cooper went back to the datum point with fellow handler Pauline, and their dogs Breeze, Grief, and Quinn. I was going to ask Kim and the divers to consider another run at it, but before I could ask, the divers asked Kim to go back.
KIM: So, they asked if we could go check it one more time, and if the dogs again showed an interest in that area, then they would make plans to return and dive, perhaps, in a different manner. So, we went. Went back up to the lake and run three of the dogs. The three dogs from the Ottawa team. And sure enough, we got body language changes, we got interest in the shore, and we pretty much feel that the...the wind in the direction of travel of the odour all are coming back to the same part of the lake that we dove the first time. So, we had Grief, Quinn, and Breeze, all three ran, and again, all-- all the same spots. All three dogs, all the same spots. So, if we take our wind direction and we draw lines back out, that's where we did the dive two weeks ago.
RIDGEN: By Kim's account, the wind was coming from a different direction than in December. But all three dogs, one at a time, alerted very distinctly, once again, to a scent of human decomposition. In an area that only slightly widens the original dive site. As a result, Mike Grebler and the others are planning a second dive. And it's with this in mind that I approached this finale of sorts to the first season of Someone Knows Something. If there are more discoveries, we'll be creating additional episodes. I join Mike Grebler and Kim Cooper in believing that there are likely human remains in Holmes Lake. It's just a matter of finding and then identifying them. And while police involvement is important going forward, we have a responsibility. The general we, all of us, to not only try to help find the truth in these cases, and push for those solutions, if someone knows something. But also, in the process, to try to solve ourselves.
[Music]
RIDGEN: I haven't liked this process. It's not easy, it's not comfortable. But I'm glad you've done it. Honestly, I hope that something will come of it. But if nothing comes of it, hopefully a parent will
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 17/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio hold their child closer. Care for each other more, and...all of us realize that each of our lives are quite extraordinary. Some tragic, some beyond belief. But it is...it is that life that we live.
ANNOUNCER: You've been listening to the Season One final episode of Someone Knows Something. Visit CBC.ca/sks to see an interactive piece about what we learned this season from David Ridgen. We're also proud to announce that we'll be back with a new season, and a new case in the coming months. Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app to make sure you don't miss it. We want to thank you, the listener, who found us, spread the word, and joined us in this journey. We'd also like to thank the entire team that helped make this series happen. Someone Knows Something is hosted, written, and produced by David Ridgen. The show is also produced by Ashley Walters and Sandra Bartlett, and Executive Producer, Arif Noorani. The Director of CBC Radio New Programs and Original Podcasts is Leslie Merklinger. The Director of CBC Radio Digital is Jeff Ulster, and Executive Producer is Paul Gorbould. SKS digital producers are Craig Desson, and Chris Oke. Additional thanks to Phillip Lung, Olsi Surikina, Ben Shannons, Steph Kampf, AC Rowe, and the CBC Reference Librarians. Our theme song is by Bob Wiseman with vocals by Mary Margaret O'Hara and Jess Reimer. I'm Talia Schlanger, thanks for listening, and stay tuned for our next season in the coming months.
[Singing]
MARY MARGARET O’HARA: I will never stop my love.
I will never sleep.
Something here is precious.
A memory I keep.
I will never stop my love.
I will never, never sleep.
All I want is an answer for this mystery I keep.
[Music]
MARY MARGARET O’HARA: Maybe one day we will all look out on the sun.
And know a light that shines the truth on our loved ones.
[Music]
MARY MARGARET O’HARA: I will never stop my love.
I will never sleep. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 18/19 7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 11 | CBC Radio Something here is precious.
A memory I keep.
I will never, never stop my love.
I will never sleep.
All I want is an answer for this mystery we keep.
[Music]
MARY MARGARET O’HARA: Maybe one day we will all look out on the sun.
And know a light that shines the truth on our loved ones.
[Music]
MARY MARGARET O’HARA: Oh, oh.
[Music]
ANNOUNCER: For more CBC original podcasts, go to CBC.ca/originalpodcasts.
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https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-11-1.5546292 19/19