PLAYBOY INTERVIEW: JIM GARRISON a candid conversation with the embattled district attorney of new orleans

On February 17, 1967, the New him "pegged as the getaway pilot in an Shaw, a wealthy New Orleans business- Orleans States-Item broke a story that elaborate plot to kill Kennedy." Ferrie, a man and real-estate developer, on would electrify the world—and hurl bizarre figure who wore a flaming-red charges of conspiring to assassinate John district attorney Jim Garrison into a wig, false eyebrows and make-up to con- F. Kennedy. One of New Orleans' most bitter fight for his political life. An enter- ceal burns he had suffered years before, prominent citizens, Shaw was a founder prising reporter, checking vouchers filed denied any involvement in a conspiracy and director of the city's prestigious with the city by the district attorney's to kill the President. Garrison, he said, International Trade Mart from 1947 office, discovered that Garrison had spent was out to frame him. Four days later, to 1965, when he retired to devote his over ;8000 investigating the assassina- Ferrie was found dead in his shabby time to playwriting and restoring his- tion of President Kennedy. "Has the three-room apartment in New Orleans, toric homes in the old French Quarter. district attorney discovered valuable ostensibly of natural causes—though he The day after Shaw's arrest, Garrison additional evidence," the States-Item left behind two suicide notes. declared that "Shaw was none other asked editorially, "or is he merely saving The press had greeted Garrison's ini- than Clay Bertrand," the shadowy some interesting new information that tial claims about a conspiracy with a queen bee of the New Orleans homo- will gain for him exposure in a national measure of skepticism, but Ferrie's death sexual underworld, who, according to magazine?" Stung, Garrison counter- was front-page news around the world. attorney Dean Andrews' testimony be- attacked, confirming that an inquiry into Warren Commission, called Kennedy's assassination was under way Garrison broke his self-imposed silence fore the and charging that the States-Item's "irre- to charge that Ferrie was "a man who, in him the day after the assassination and Dallas to defend sponsible" revelation "has now created a my judgment, was one of history's most asked him to rush to problem for us in finding witnesses and important individuals." According to Oswald. Shaw heatedly denied his guilt: getting cooperation from other witnesses Garrison, "Mr. Ferrie was one of those "I never heard of any plot and I never and in at least one case has endangered individuals I had in mind when I said used any alias in my life." But New Or- the life of a witness." there would be arrests shortly. We had leans society, which had long counted On February 18, newsmen from all reached a decision to arrest him early Shaw one of its own, was stunned. over the world converged on New Orleans next week. Apparently we waited too On March 14, a panel of three judges to hear Garrison announce at a press long." But Garrison vowed that Ferrie's heard Garrison's case in a preliminary was conference:. "We have been investigat- death would not halt his investigation, hearing to determine if there _enough evidence against Shaw to bring ing the role of the city of New Or- and added, "My staff and I solved the Erin to trial. Perry Raymond Russo, a 25- leans in the assassination of President assassination weeks ago. I wouldn't say year-old life-insurance salesman from Kennedy, and we have made some this if we didn't have the evidence Baton Rouge who had once been Ferrie's progress—I think substantial progress.. . beyond a shadow of a doubt. We know What's more, there will be arrests." As the key individuals, the cities involved "roommate," testified that in mid-Septem- reporters flashed news of Garrison's and how it was done." ber of 1963, he had attended a meeting statement across the world, a 49-year-old On March 1, Garrison eclipsed even the at Ferrie's apartment where Shaw, Lee New Orleans pilot, David Ferrie, told headlines from his previous press confer- Harvey Oswald and Ferrie discussed newsmen that the district attorney had ence by announcing the arrest of Clay - Means of assassinating the President in a

"To read the press accounts of my investi- "A number of the men who killed the "President Kennedy was killed for one gation, I'm a cross between Al Capone President were former employees of the reason: because he was working for a rec- and Attila the Hun—bribing, threaten- CIA involved in its anti-Castro under- onciliation with the U.S.S.R. and Castro's ing innocent men. Anybody who employs ground activities in the New Orleans area. Cuba. His assassins were a group of fa- those methods should be disbarred." The CIA knows their identity. So do I." natic anti-Communists and Cuban exiles." 59 "triangulation of cross fire." Garrison's poll of May 29 revealed-rhat 66 percent New Orleans to work as an ,assistant second witness, Vernon Bundy, a 29- of the American public now believes district attorney until 1961, when he.ra- year-old former narcotics addict, testified there was a conspiracy to assassinate signed with a scorching attack on Mayor that in the summer of 1963, he saw Shaw Kennedy, and "a major contributor to Victor H. Schiro, whom he charged with pass a sum of money to Lee Harvey Os- this swelling doubt is the investigation corruption and failure to rigorously en- wald on the shore of Lake Pontchar- into the assassination by New Orleans force the law. train. On March 17, after a four-day district attorney Jim Garrison." Even Garrison entered the race for district hearing, Judges Malcolm V. O'Hara, with public opinion on his side, Garrison attorney as a fiercely uncompromising Bernard J. Bagert and Matthew S. Bra- was running into difficulties on several reform candidate, lambasting the "po- niff ruled there was sufficient evidence to fronts by early summer. Three witnesses litical machine" of Mayor Schiro and hold Clay Shaw for trial. Garrison's hand he wished to question about their com- characterizing the incumbent district was further strengthened on March 22, plicity in the assassination had fled Loui- attorney, Richard Dowling, as "the great when a 12-member grand jug of promi- siana, and he was unable to obtain their emancipator—he let everybody go free." nent New Orleans citizens, em paneled to extradition to New Orleans—a seldom- Garrison, six feet, six, and 2-10 pounds, hear Garrison's case, also ruled there encountered roadblock lie credits to the was quickly dubbed the "Jolly Green were sufficient grounds to bring Shaw to CIA, "which knows that some of its Giant." He had no political organization court. Pending trial—which is scheduled former employees were involved in the and not much money, but his personal to begin sometime this month—Shaw Kennedy assassination and is doing magnetism and refusal to compromise was allowed to go free on $10,000 bail. everything possible to frustrate my in- appealed to the New Orleans elector- The American press remained dubious vestigation in order to preserve the ate. He defeated Dowling' handily and about Garrison's ability to prove his Agency's good name." The CIA refuses promptly began convicting men on charges in court, and domestic coverage to comment on Garrison's charges. charges his predecessor had dropped. of and commentary on the district attor- Garrison was also under heavy fire Garrison's five years as district attor- ney's case thereafter was, at best, low-key over the improper methods allegedly em- ney have been stormy. He outraged —at worst, contemptuous. But as News- ployed by his staff. The most blistering many of his former supporters in the week reported on March 20, "In Europe, indictment of his probe was an NBC business community by launching a where thousands still cling to the con- television special on June 19, charging campaign against vice on Bourbon spiracy theory in spite of the Warren that Garrison's investigators had tried to Street, charging that B-girls were merci- Commission's conclusion that Lee Har- bribe three potential witnesses—Alvin lessly fleecing naïve tourists. Garrison vey Oswald acted alone . . . Garrison Beauboeuf, Miguel Torres and Fred Lee- cleaned up Bourbon Street himself, per- and his investigation have been the stuff mans—to testify against Shaw; that Gar- sonally padlocking many honky-tonks of page-one headlines." "I'm encouraged rison's stall had attempted to induce a and striptease clubs. But his toughest by the support Europe is bringing me," burglar, John Candler, to plant false evi- fight—until the current one—came in he told a Paris-Match reporter. "Every dence in Clay Shaw's home; and that 1962, when he announced that the re- day, I receive letters and telegrams from Garrison had allowed Perry Russo and fusal of the city's eight criminal-court all the capitals. I've even had six tele- Vernon Bundy to testify against Shaw judges to approve funds for his in- phone calls from Moscow." One was from even though they had previously failed vestigations of organized crime "raised Literaturnaya Gareta, a prestigious Mm- lie-detector tests. NBC added thaTits in- interesting questions about racketeer in- cow literary magazine, which ran an in- vestigators had also unearthed the real fluences." The judges promptly charged terview with Garrison concluding that "Clay Bertrand"; and though NBC didn't Garrison with defamation of character there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy name him, it said that he was not Clay and criminal libel—and a state court but that Oswald "definitely wasn't the Shaw. Subsequently, NBC might have fined him $1000. Garrison appealed key figure in it." had second thoughts about its exposé, for the case all the way to the Supreme Garrison also had his supporters in the the network granted Garrison an unprece- Court, and on November 23, 1964, in a U. S. Boston's Richard Cardinal Cushing, dented 30 minutes of prime Saturday- landmark decision on the right to criti- father-confessor to the Kennedy family, evening time to rebut its own findings. cize public officials, the nation's highest Garrison charged that the three wit- said of the New Orleans probe on March tribunal reversed his conviction, contend- nesses who claimed his aids had tried to 16: "I think they should follow it through. ing that "speech concerning public affairs bribe them were perjurers. He also de- is more than self-expression; it is the . . . I. never believed that the assassina- nied that his office had approached John essence of self-government." Never one tion was, the work of one man." And Candler to burglarize .Shaw's home, and to turn the other cheek, Garrison sub- Representative Roman Pucinski, an stated flatly that both Russo and Bundy Illinois Democrat, said: "I'm surprised had passed their polygraph tests. On the sequently employed his political influence more attention hasn't been paid to the key point of the "real" Clay Bertrand, to unseat a number of the judges when ruling that Clay Shaw go on trial for par- Garrison said that he knew the identity they came up for reelection. ticipating in a plot to assassinate Presi- of the individual NBC was talking about The district attorney's independence dent Kennedy. These aren't nuts but and that he was definitely not the man has at times nettled both left and right in three judges talking. It's a new ball who called attorney Dean Andrews to New Orleans. When the police depart. game." Senator Russell Long of Louisi- gain legal aid for Lee Harvey Oswald. ment tried to prosecute a bookclealer for ana also backed up Garrison—an old po- Undismayed—and undeterred—by all selling James Baldwin's "Another Coun- litical ally—contending that he was only the charges and countercharges, Garri- try," Garrison stepped in with a broad- doing "what a district attorney should son still says, "We are going to win this side against censorship and won the do." And perennial Warren Report critic case, and anyone who bets against us is man's release—promptly bringing down Mark Lane (himself a PLAYBOY inter- going to lose his money." The embattled on his head the wrath of the local White viewee last February), whose best-selling district attorney may be overconfident, Citizens Council. At the other end of the "Rush to Judgment" helped persuade but he has a history of winning every political spectrum, he has been criticized Garrison to launch his investigation, said fight he starts. Born in Dennison, Iowa, by the liberal American Civil Liberties after a conference with Garrison in New on November 20, 1921, Garrison flew an Union, which once accused him of try- Orleans that the D.A.'s probe would unarmored spotter plane for the artillery ing an alleged rapist "in the press rather "break the entire case wide open." in France and Germany during World than in the courtroom." But Negro If nothing else, Garrison was certainly War Two and then attended Tulane leaders in the city say Garrison has been a fair and impartial district attorney; in 60 affecting public opinion. A Louis Harris University Law School. He then went to his last bid for re-election, he polled as to believe that where there's smoke, unprecedented step in jurisprudence; in- well in the Negro precincts as he did in there's fire—although I find it difficult to stead, the press turned around and hinted the white. believe that the public will put much that we had drugged our witnesses or The 'years 1965 and 1966 were—by credence in most of the dastardly deeds given them posthypnotic suggestions to Garrison's standards—relatively quiet. I've been accused of in the past few testify falsely. After arresting Mr. Shaw, His only major public controversy during months. Just recently, for example, the we filed a motion for a preliminary hear- this period flared up when he interceded rumor went around that my staff was ing—a proceeding that essentially oper- with Louisiana Governor John McKeith- peddling marijuana to high school stu- ates in the defendant's favor. Such a en to win a pardon for a local stripper dents and that one of our major witnesses hearing is generally requested by the named Linda Birgette, who had been had just confessed that his testimony was defense, and it was virtually unheard of convicted on a charge of lewd dancing. based on a dream induced by an overdose that the motion be filed by the state, Garrison claimed it was impossible to of LSD. We've also been accused of which under the law has the right to define obscenity in literature or the arts planning an attack on the local FBI charge a defendant outright, without any and argued that jailing Miss Birgette office with guns loaded with red pepper, evaluation by a judge of the pending would be a "gross miscarriage of jus- having stolen money from our own in- charges. But I felt that because of the tice." McKeithen acceded to his pleas vestigative files and having threatened to enormity of this accusation, we should and, despite cries of protest from local shoot one witness in the derriere with an lean over backward and give the defend- bluenoses, the incident served to in- exotic gun propelling truth-serum darts. ant every chance. A three-judge panel crease Garrison's popularity. I just hope they never find out about my heard our evidence against Mr. Shaw and The same could hardly be said of his involvement in the Boston Brinks rob- his attorneys' rebuttals and ordered him current probe, which has made him both bery. I must admit, however, that I'm indicted for conspiracy to assassinate the a target for abuse—justified or other- beginning to worry about the cumulative President. And I might add here that it's wise—that has tended to obscure rather effect of this propaganda blitzkrieg on a matter of record that my relationship than clarify the issues involved in the potential jurors for the trial of Clay with the judiciary of our fair city is not investigation, and a victim of often one- Shaw. I don't know how long they can- a Damon-Pythias camaraderie. Once the sided press coverage that NBC's half withstand the drumbeat obbligato of judges had handed down their decision, hour of equal time has done little to rec- charges exonerating the defendant and we could have immediately filed a charge tify. In PLAYBOY'S opinion, Garrison has convicting the prosecutor. For months against the defendant just by signing it not yet had the chance to present his now, the establishment's artillery units and depositing it with the city clerk—the side of the case—in court or out—with- have been pounding away at the two customary method of charging a defend- out expurgation or editorializing. We themes NBC focused on—that my office ant. Nevertheless, out of concern for feel he ought to have that chance. uses "improper methods" with regard to Mr. Shaw's rights, we voluntarily pre- Toward this end, in mid-July, we ap- witnesses and that we don't really have a sented the case to a blue-ribbon grand proached the embattled district attorney case against Mr. Shaw and he should jury. If this grand jury had failed to in- with our offer of an impartial, open- never be brought to trial. I hope you'll dict Mr. Shaw, our case would have been ended interview. The 12-hour cross- give me the chance to answer each of dead as a doornail. But the grand jury, examination that followed—in the midst these charges in detail; but first, let me composed of 12 eminent New Orleans of Garrison's round-the-clock investigation elaborate a bit on the methods we employ citizens, heard our evidence and indicted —was conducted in the living room of in this or any other investigation. My the defendant for participation in a con- the two-story home he shares with his office has been one of the most scrupulous spiracy to assassinate John Kennedy. In a blonde wife and three young children in in the country with regard to the protec- further effort to protect the rights of the a tree-lined residential neighborhood of tion of individual rights. I've been on defendant, and in the face of the endless- New Orleans. As the dog-tired district record for years in law journals and ly reiterated accusation that we have no attorney stretched his long legs across a books as championing the rights of the case against him—despite the unanimous briar pipe (a political couch, battered individual against the oppressive pqwer verdict of the grand jury and the judges trademark) in one hand, a vodka martini of the state. My office moved in and at the preliminary hearing—I have studi- (his favorite drink) in the other, PLAYBOY prevented police seizure from bookstores ously refrained from making any public interviewer Eric Norden began by asking of books arbitrarily labeled "obscene." I statement critical of the defendant or pre- him to answer the, most damaging charges intervened and managed to persuade the judging his guilt. Of course, this puts me of his critics. Louisiana legislature to remove a pro- at a considerable disadvantage when the vision from its new code of criminal pro- PLAYBOY: You have been accused—by cedure that would allow judges to reach press claims I have no case against him, the National Broadcasting Company, out from the bench and cite newsmen for because the only way I could convince Newsweek, the New Orleans Metropoli- contempt if they penned anything em- them of the strength of my case is to tan Crime Commission and your own barrassing to the judges. My office has throw open our files and let them exam- former investigative aide William Gur- investigated cases where we had already ine the testimony of all our witnesses. vich—of attempts to intimidate witnesses, obtained convictions; and on discovering Apart from the injustice such an act of engaging in criminal conspiracy and new evidence indicating that the defend- would do Mr. Shaw, it could get our of inciting to such felonies as perjury, ant was not guilty, we've obtained a whole case thrown out of court on the criminal defamation and public bribery. reversal of the verdict. In over five years grounds that we had prejudiced the de- How do you respond to these charges? of office, I have never had a single case fendant's rights by pretrial publicity. So GARRISON: I've stopped beating my reversed because of the use of improper I won't fall into that particular trap, wife. All the charges you enumerate whatever the provocation. I only wish have been made with one purpose in methods—a record I'll match with any the press would allow our case to stand mind—to place our office on the defen- other D. A. in the country. In this par- sive and make us waste valuable time ticular case, I've taken unusual steps to or fall on its merits in court. It appears answering allegations that have no basis protect the rights of the defendant and that certain elements of the mass media in fact. Also involved is a psychological assure him a fair trial. Before we intro- have an active interest in preventing this by-product valuable to those who don't duced the testimony of our witnesses, case from ever coming to trial at all and want the truth about Kennedy's assassi- we made them undergo independent veri- find it necessary to employ against me nation to become known: The very repe- fying tests, including polygraph exami- every smear device in the book. To read tition of a charge lends it a certain nation, truth serum and hypnosis. We the press accounts of my investigation— 62 credibility, since people have a tendency thought this would be hailed as an my "circus," I should say—I'm a cross between Al Capone and Attila the Hun, also be bought by the—other side. So —both failed polygraph tests prior to f) ruthlessly hounding innocent men, tram- it's rather naïve, apart from being ethi- their testimony before the grand jury. In pling their legal rights, bribing and cally objectionable, to assume that our the case of Russo, who claimed to have al threatening witnesses and in general vio- investigators travel around the country attended a meeting at David Ferrie's Os lacing every canon of legal ethics. My with bags of money trying to bribe wit- apartment where Shaw, Oswald and of God, anybody who employs the kind of nesses to lie on the witness stand. We just Ferrie plotted the assassination, NBC methods that elements of the news media don't operate that way. said that "Russo's answers to a series of attribute to me should not only not be a PLAYBOY: On an NBC television special, questions indicate, in the language of Os district attorney, he should be disbarred. "The J.F.K. Conspiracy: The Case of Jim the polygraph operator, 'deception cri- This case has taught me the difference Garrison," a former Turkish-bathhouse teria.' He was asked if he knew Clay between image and reality, and the operator in New Orleans, Fred Leemans, Shaw. He was asked if he knew Lee power of the mythmakers. But I know claimed that one of your aides offered Harvey Oswald. His 'yes' answer to both I've done everything possible to conduct him money to testify that Clay Shaw had of these questions indicated 'deception this investigation with honesty and in- frequented his establishment with Lee criteria.— Did Bundy and Russo fail tegrity and with full respect for the civil Harvey Oswald. Do you also deny this their lie-detector tests? charge? rights of the defendant. But a blanket GARRISON: No, and NBC's allegations in GARRISON: Yes; and it's a perfect illus- denial of charges against me isn't going this area are about as credible as its to convince anyone, so why don't we tration of the point I was just making other charges. The men who adminis- consider them one by one? about how easy it is for the other side tered both polygraph tests flatly deny PLAYBOY: All right. The May 15th issue to buy witnesses and then charge us of Newsweek charged that two of your with its own misconduct. Mr. Leemans that Russo and Bundy failed the test. investigators offered David Ferrie's former came to us in early May, volunteering I'll offer right now to make Russo's and roommate, Alvin Beauboeuf, $3000 and testimony to the effect that he had often Bundy's polygraph tests accessible to any an airline job if he would help sub- seen a man named Clay Bertrand in his reputable investigator or reporter the day stantiate your charges against Clay Shaw. bathhouse, sometimes accompanied by Clay Shaw's trial begins; I can't do it . How do you answer this accusation? men he described as "Latins." In a sworn before that, because I'm restrained from GARRISON: Mr. Beauboeuf was one of affidavit, Leemans said he had also seen releasing material pertaining to Shaw's the two men who accompanied David a young man called Lee with Bertrand guilt or innocence. Just for your informa- Ferrie on a mysterious trip from New on four or five occasions—a man who fits tion, though, the veracity of Bundy and Orleans to Texas on the day of the assas- the description of Lee Harvey Oswald. Russo has been affirmed not only through sination, so naturally we were interested Leemans also identified the Clay Ber- polygraph tests but through hypnosis and in him from the very start of our investi- trand who had frequented his establish- the administration of sodium amytal- gation. At first he showed every willing- ment as Clay Shaw. Now, this was truth serum. I want to make a proposi- important testimony, and initially we ness to cooperate with our office; but after tion to the president of NBC: If this Ferrie's death, somebody gave him a free were favorably impressed with Mr. Lee- mans. But then we started receiving calls charge is true, then I will resign as trip to Washington. From that moment district attorney of New Orleans. If it's on, a change came over Beauboeuf; he from him demanding money. Well, I've untrue, however, then the president of refused to cooperate with us any further told you our policy on this, and-the an- and he made the charges against my swer was a fiat no. He was quiet for a NBC should resign. Just in case he thinks investigators to which you refer. Fortu- while and then he called and asked if we I'm kidding, I'm ready to meet with him nately, Beauboeuf had signed an affidavit would approve if he sold his story to a at any time to select a mutually accept- on April 12th—well after the alleged magazine, since he badly needed money. able committee to determine once and bribe offer was supposed to have been We refused to give him such approval. for all the truth or falsehood of this made—affirming that "no representative Apparently, the National Broadcasting charge. In all fairness, however, I must of the New Orleans Parish district attor- Company was able to establish a warmer add that the fact Bundy and Russo passed ney's office has ever asked me to do any- relationship with Mr. Leemans. Inc any their polygraph tests is not, in and of it- thing but to tell the truth. Any inference case, he now says that he didn't really lie self, irrefutable proof that they were tell- or statement by anyone to the contrary to us; he just "told us what he thought ing the truth; that's why we administered has no basis in fact." As soon as his we wanted to hear." I'm sure he was the other tests. The lie detector isn't a attorney began broadcasting his charges, equally cooperative with NBC—although foolproof technique. A man well re- we asked the New Orleans police de- he's beginning to spread his favors hearsed and in complete control of him- around. When a reporter asked him partment to thoroughly investigate the self can master those reactions that matter. And on June 12th, the police for more information after the broadcast, Leemans refused, explaining that he was would register on the polygraph as de- department—which is not, believe me, ception criteria and get away with in the pocket of the district attorney's saving himself for the Associated Press, blatant lies, while someone who is ex- office—released a report concluding that "since I want to make something out of tremely nervous and anxiety-ridden could exhaustive investigation by the police in- this." I would like to make one personal telligence branch had cleared my staff of remark about Mr. Leemans. I don't tell the truth and have it register as a lie. any attempt to bribe or threaten Beau- know if he was lying to us initially or not Much also depends on who administers boeuf into giving untrue testimony. There —though I suspect from other evidence the test, since it can easily be rigged. For was no mention of this report, predicta- in my possession that his statement as he example. Jack Ruby took a lie-detector bly enough, in Newsweek. Let me make first gave it was accurate—but anybody, test for the Warren Commission and told one thing dear, though: Like every po- no matter what his financial straits, who lie after outright lie—even little lies that lice department and district attorney's tries to make a fast buck off the assassi- could be easily checked—and yet the office across the country, we have sums nation of John Kennedy is several rungs Warren Commission concluded that he set aside to pay informers for valuable below the anthropoid ape on the evolu- passed the test. So the polygraph is only information—but we would never suborn tionary scale. one weapon in the arsenal we use to perjury. This isn't because we're saints— PLAYBOY: On this same NBC show, verify a witness' testimony, and we have short cuts like that could be awfully newsman Frank McGee claimed that never considered it conclusive; we have tempting in a frustrating case—but be- NBC investigators had discovered that abundant documentation to corroborate cause we're realistic enough to know that your two key witnesses against Clay their stories. Two convicts, Miguel Tones 64 any witness who can be bought by us can Shaw—Perry Russo and Vernon Bundy PLAYBOY: for years and have been seen frequently and John Cancler, told NBC that Vernon PLAYBOY: The NBC special also claimed In each other's company. Andrews has Bundy admitted having lied in his testi- to have discovered that "Clay, or Clem, 0 lied so often and about so many aspects mony linking Clay Shaw to Lee Oswald. Bertrand does exist. Clem Bertrand is not his real name. It is a pseudonym of this case that the New Orleans Parish Do you dismiss this as just another NBC grand jury has indicted him for perjury. fabrication? used by a homosexual in New Orleans. For his protection, we will not disclose I feel sorry for him, since he's afraid of GARRISON: Messrs. Cancler and Torres the real name of the man known as getting a bullet in his head, but he's a were both convicted by my office, as were Clem Bertrand. His real name has been going to have to go to trial for perjury. almost half the men in the state peni- given to the Department of Justice. He is [Andrews has since been convicted.] tentiary, and I'm sure the great majority not Clay Shaw." Doesn't this undermine PLAYBOY: You expressed your reaction to of them have little love for the man who your entire case against Shaw? the NBC show in concrete terms on July sent them up. I don't know if they GARRISON: Your faith in NBC's veracity seventh, when you formally charged Wal- fabricated their stories in collusion with is touching and indicates that the Age ter Sheridan, the network's special inves- NBC or on their own for motives of of Innocence is not yet over. NBC does tigator for the broadcast, with attempting revenge, but I'm convinced from what not have the real Clay Bertrand; the to bribe your witness Perry RUsso. Do I know of Vernon Bundy that his man whose name NBC so melodramati- you really have a case against Sheridan, testimony was truthful. NBC manipu- cally turned over to the Justice De- or is this just a form of harassment? lated the statements of Gander and partment is that of Eugene Davis, a New GARRISON: The reason we haven't lost a Torres to give the impression to the Orleans bar owner, who has firmly de- major case in over five years in office is viewer that he was watching a trial on nied under oath that he has ever used that we do not charge a man unless we television—my trial—and that these "ob- the name Clay, or Clem, Bertrand. We can make it stick in court. And I'm not jective" witnesses were saying exactly know from incontrovertible evidence in in the business of harassing anybody. what they would say in a court of law. our possession who the real Clay Bertrand Sheridan was charged because evidence Actually—and NBC scrupulously avoided is—and we will prove it in court. But to was brought to us indicating that he revealing this to its audience—their "tes- make this whole thing a little clearer, let attempted to bribe Perry Russo by offer- timony" was not under oath, there was no me tell you the genesis of the whole ing him free transportation to California, opportunity for cross-examination or the "Clay Bertrand" story. A New Orleans free lodgings and a job once there, pay- presentation of rebuttal witnesses, and the lawyer, Dean Andrews, told the Warren ment of all legal fees in any extradition statements of Gander, Torres and all the Commission that a few months before the proceedings and immunity from my rest of NBC's road company were edited assassination of President Kennedy, Lee office. Mr. Russo has stated that Sheri- so that the public would hear only those Harvey Oswald and a group of "gay dan asked his help "to wreck the Garri- elements of their story that would dam- Mexicanos" came to his office and re- son investigation" and "offered to set me age our case. The rules of evidence and quested Andrews' aid in having Oswald's up in California, protect my job and guarantee that Garrison would never adversary procedure, I might add, have Marine Corps undesirable discharge get me extradited." According to Russo, been developed over many years precisely changed to an honorable discharge; Os- Sheridan added that both NBC and the to prevent this kind of phony side show. wald subsequently returned alone with CIA were out to scuttle my case. Of course, these two convicts have been other legal problems. AndrewiThirther I think it's significant that the chief in- used against my office in a variety of re- testified that the day after President vestigator for this ostensibly objective spects. Miguel Torres also claims I offered Kennedy was assassinated, he received a broadcast starts telling people the day he him a full pardon, a vacation in Florida call from Clay Bertrand, who asked arrives in town that he is going to "de- and an ounce of heroin if he would testi- him to rush to Dallas to represent Os- stroy Garrison"—this at the same time fy that Clay Shaw had made homosexual wald. Andrews claims he subsequently saw Bertrand in a New Orleans bar, but he is unctuously assuring me that NBC overtures to him on the street. What on wanted only the truth and he had an en- earth that would have established rele- Bertrand fled when Andrews approached tirely open mind on my case. Let me tell vant to this case I still don't know, but him. This was intriguing testimony, al- though the Warren Commission dis- you something about Walter Sheridan's that's his story. I think it was actually background, and maybe you'll understand rather cheap of me to offer Torres only missed it out of hand; and in 1964, Mark Lane traveled to New Orleans his true role in all this. Sheridan was one an ounce of heroin; that wouldn't have of the bright, hard young investigators lasted Out his vacation. A kilo would be to speak to Andrews. He found him visibly frightened. "I'll take you to din- who entered the Justice Department un- more like it. After all, I'm not stingy. der Bobby Kennedy. He was assigned to Torres' friend John Gander, a burglar, ner," Andrews told Lane, "but I can't talk about the case. I called Washington nail Jimmy Hoffa. Sheridan employed a has also charged that one of my investi- wide variety of highly questionable tac- gators tried to induce him to burglarize and they told me that if I said anything, I might get a bullet in the head." For the tics in the Justice Department's relentless Clay Shaw's house and plant false evi- same reason, he has refused to cooper- drive against Hoffa; he was recently sub- dence there, but he refused because he ate with my office in this investigation. poenaed to testify in connection with would not have such a heinous sin on his The New York Times reported on Feb- charges that he wire-tapped the offices conscience. I suppose that's why Cancler's ruary 26th that "Mr. Andrews said he of Hoffa's agwiates and then played prison nickname is "John the Baptist." I had not talked to Mr. Garrison because back incriminating tapes to them, warn- can assure you, if we ever wanted to bur- such talk might be dangerous, but ing that unless they testified for the Gov- glarize Shaw's home—which we never did added that he believed he was being ernment, they would be destroyed along —John the Baptist would be the last man " Andrews told our grand jury with Hoffa. A few years ago, Sheridan left on earth we'd pick for the job. By the way, that he could not say Clay Shaw was the Justice Department—officially, at least Mr. Cancler was called before the grand Clay Bertrand and he could not say he —and went to work for NBC. No honest jury and asked if he had told the truth wasn't. But the day after NBC's special, reporter out for a story would have so to NBC. He replied: "I refuse to answer Andrews broke his silence and said, yes, completely prejudged the situation and on the grounds that my answer might Clay Shaw is not Clem Bertrand and been willing to employ such tactics. I incriminate me"—and was promptly identified the real Clay Bertrand as think it's likely that in his zeal to destroy my case, he exceeded the authority sentenced to six months in prison and Eugene Davis. The only trouble is, An- drews and Davis have known each other granted him by NBC's executives in New 66 a $500 fine for contempt of court. foi ' York. I get the impression that the majori- couldn't care less as long as I can shed tinued to wax enthusiastic about every ty of NBC executives probably thought some light on John Kennedy's assassina- aspect of our case, and I have a dozen Sheridan's team came down here in an tion. As a matter of fact, after this last witnesses who will testify to that effect. 01 uncompromising search for the truth. murderous year, I find myself thinking I guess this was something that should s When Sheridan overstepped himself and more and more about returning to private have tipped me off about Bill: He was 4 it became obvious that the broadcast was, life and having time to read again, to always enthusiastic, never doubtful or ri to say the least, not objective, NBC real- get out in the sun and hit a golf ball. cautionary, even when I or one of my ized i i t was in a touchy position. Cooler But before I do that, I'm going to break staff threw out a hypothesis that on PI heads prevailed and I was allowed to pre- this case and let the public know the reflection we realized was wrong„ And I sent our case to the American people. For truth. I won't quit before that day. I began to notice how he would pick my that, at least, I'm singularly grateful to wouldn't give the bastards the satisfaction. mind for every scrap of fact pertaining to Walter Sheridan. PLAYBOY: According to your own former the case. So I grew suspicious and took PLAYBOY: How do you respond to the chief investigator, William Gurvich, the him off the sensitive areas of the investi- charge of your critics—including NBC truth about the assassination has al- gation and relegated him to chauffeuring —that you launched this probe for politi- ready been published in the Warren Re- and routine clerical duties. This seemed cal reasons, hoping the attendant pub- port. After leaving your last June, to really bother him, and every day he licity would be a springboard to a Senate he announced, "If there is any truth would come into my office and pump me seat or to the governorship? to any of Garrison's charges about there for information, complaining that he GARRISON: I'd have to be a terribly cyni- being a conspiracy, I haven't been able wasn't being told enough about the case. cal and corrupt man to place another to find it." When members of your own I still had nothing concrete against him human being on trial for conspiracy to staff have no faith in your case, how do and I didn't want to be unjust, but I murder the President of the United you expect the public to be impressed? guess my manner must have cooled States just to gratify my political ambi- GARRISON: First of all, I won't deny for perceptibly, because one day about two tion. But I guess there are a lot of people a minute that for at least three months I months before he surfaced in Washing- around the country, especially after trusted Bill Gurvich implicitly. He was ton, Bill just vanished from our sight. NBC's attack, who think that's just the never my "chief investigator"—that's his And with him, I'm sorry to confess, van- kind of man I am. That rather saddens own terminology—because there was no ished a copy of our master file. How do me. I'm no Albert Schweitzer, but I such position on my staff while he worked you explain such behavior? It's possible could never do a thing like that. I derive for me. But two days before Christmas that Bill joined us initially for reasons no pleasure' from prosecuting a man, 1966, Gurvich, who operates a private of opportunism, seeing a chance to get even though I know he's guilty; do you detective agency, visited my office and told in at the beginning of an earth-shaking think I could sleep at night or look at me he'd heard of my investigation and case, and subsequently chickened out myself in the mirror in the morning if I thought I was doing a wonderful job. He when he saw the implacable determina- hounded an innocent man? You know, I presented me with a beautiful color-TV tion of some powerful agencies to destroy always received much more satisfaction set and asked if he could be of use in any our investigation and discredit everyone as a defense attorney in obtaining an ac- capacity. Well, right then and there, I associated with it. But I really don't be- quittal for a client than I ever have as a should have sat back and asked myself a lieve Bill is that much of a coward. It's D..A. in obtaining a conviction. All my few searching questions—like how he had also possible that those who want to interests and sympathies tend to be on heard of my probe in the first place,-since prevent an investigation learned early the side of the individual as opposed to only the people we were questioning and what we were doing and made a decision the state. So this is really the worst a few of my staff, as far as I knew, were to plant somebody on the inside of the charge that anyone could make against aware of what was going on at that time. investigation. Let me stress that I have no me—that in order to get my name in the We had been under way for only five secret documents or monitored telephone paper, or to advance politically, I would weeks, remember. And I should also calls to support this hypothesis; it just destroy another human being. This kind have recalled the old adage about seems to me the most logical explanation for Bill's behavior. Let me put it this of charge reveals a good deal about the Greeks bearing gifts. But I was desper- way: If you were in charge of the CIA personality of the people who make it; to ately understaffed—I had only six aides and willing to spend scores of millions of impute such motives to another man is to available to work on the assassination dollars on such relatively penny-ante imply you're harboring them yourself. inquiry full time—and here comes a projects as infiltrating the National Stu- But to look at a different aspect of your trained private investigator offering his dents Association, wouldn't you make an question,, I'm inclined to challenge the service& free of charge. It was like a gift effort to infiltrate an investigation that whole premise that launching an investi- from the gods. So I set Gurvich to work; could seriously damage the prestige of gation like this holds any political advan- and for the next couple of months, he your agency? tages for me. A politically ambitious man did an adequate job of talking to wit- PLAYBOY: How could your probe dam- would hardly be likely to challenge the nesses, taking photographs, etc. But then, age the prestige of the CIA and cause massed power of the Federal Govern- around March, I learned that he had them to take countermeasures against ment and criticize so many honorable been seeing Walter Sheridan of NBC. you? figures and distinguished agencies. Actu- Well, this didn't bother me at first, be- GARRISON: For the simple reason that a ally, this charge is an argument in favor cause I didn't know then the role Sheri- number of the men who killed the Presi- of my investigation: Would such a slimy dan was playing in this whole affair. But dent were former employees of the CIA type, eager to profiteer on the assassina- after word got back to me from my wit- involved in its anti-Castro underground tion, jeopardize his political ambitions if nesses about Sheridan's threats and har- activities in and around New Orleans. he didn't have an ironclad case? If I were assment, I began keeping a closer eye on The CIA knows their identity. So do l- really the ambitious monster they paint Bill. I still didn't really think he was any and our investigation has established this me, why would I climb out on such a kind of a double agent, but I couldn't without the shadow of a doubt. Let me limb and then saw it off? Unless he had help wondering why he was rubbing stress one thing, however: We have no the facts, it would be the last thing a elbows with people like that. Now, don't evidence that any official of the CIA was politically ambitious man would do. I forget that Gurvich claims he became involved with the conspiracy that led to was perfectly aware that I might have totally disgusted with our investigation the President's death. signed my political death warrant the at the time of Clay Shaw's arrest— PLAYBOY: Do you lend no credence, then, 68 moment I launched this case—but I yet for several months afterward he con- to the charges of a former CIA agent, work of the Women's Christian Temper. aged man published without explanation al J. Garrett Underhill, that there was a or identification in the 26 volumes of the conspiracy within the CIA to assassinate ance Union or the New Orleans Chamber O Warren Report. There's a significant story Kennedy?. of Commerce. PLAYBOY: behind Exhibit number 237. Throughout pl GARRISON: I've become familiar with the That's hardly conclusive evi- case of Gary Underhill, and I've been dence. the late summer and fall of 1963, Lee GARRISON: Oswald was shepherded in Dallas and 4 able to ascertain that he was not the I'd need a book to list all the type of man to make wild or unsub- indications. But let's start with the fact New Orleans by a CIA "baby sitter" who stantiated charges. Underhill was an in- that most of the attorneys for the hostile watched over Oswald's activities and a. telligence agent in World War Two and witnesses and defendants were hired by stayed with him. My office knows who he an expert on military affairs whom the the CIA—through one or another of its is and what he looks like. Pentagon considered one of the country's covers. For example, a New Orleans PLAYBOY: Are you implying that Oswald top authorities on limited warfare. He lawyer representing Alvin Beauboeuf, was working for the CIA? was on good personal terms with the top who has charged me with every kind of GARRISON: Let me finish and you can brass in the Defense Department and unethical practice except child molesting decide for yourself. When Oswald went the ranking officials in the CIA. He —I expect that allegation to come shortly to Mexico City in an effort to obtain a wasn't a full-time CIA agent, but he before Shaw's trial—flew with Beauboeuf visa for travel to Cuba, this CIA agent occasionally performed "special assign- to Washington immediately after my accompanied him. Now, at this partic- ments" for the Agency. Several days office subpoenaed him, where Beauboeuf ular time, Mexico was the only Latin- after the President's assassination, Under- was questioned by a "retired" intelligence American nation maintaining diplomatic officer in the offices of the Justice De- hill appeared at the home of friends in ties with Cuba, and leftists and Commu- partment. This trip was paid for, as are New Jersey, apparently badly shaken, nists from all over the hemisphere traveled the lawyer's legal fees, by the CIA—in and charged that Kennedy was killed by to the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City for a small group within the CIA. He told other words, with our tax dollars. Another lawyer, Stephen Plotkin, who represents visas to Cuba. The CIA, quite properly, friends he believed his own life was in had placed a hidden movie camera in a danger. We can't learn any more from Gordon Novel [another of Garrison's key building across the street from the em- Underhill, I'm afraid, because shortly witnesses], has admitted he is paid by the bassy and filmed everyone coming and afterward, he was found shot to death in CIA—and has also admitted his client his Washington apartment. The coroner is a CIA agent; you may have seen that going. The Warren Commission, knowing ruled suicide, but he had been shot be- story on page 96 of The New York this, had an assistant legal counsel ask the hind the left ear and the pistol was found Times, next to ship departures. Plotkin, FBI for a picture of Oswald and his com- under his left side—and Underhill was incidentally, sued me for $10,000,000 panion on the steps of the embassy, and right-handed. for defaming his client and sued a group the FBI, in turn, filed an affidavit saying PLAYBOY: Do you believe Underhill was of New Orleans businessmen financing they had obtained the photo in question murdered to silence him? my investigation for $50,000,000—which from the CIA. The only trouble is that GARRISON: I don't believe it and I don't meant, in effect, that the CIA was suing the CIA supplied the Warren Commission disbelieve it. All I know is that witnesses us. As if they need the money. But my with a phony photograph. The photo- with vital evidence in this case are cer- attorney filed a motion for a deposition graph of an "unidentified man" pub- tainly bad insurance risks. In the absence to be taken from Novel, which meant-that lished in the 26 volumes is not the man of further and much more conclusive evi- he would have to return to my juris- who was filmed with Oswald on the steps dence to the contrary, however, we must diction to file his suit and thus be liable of the Cuban Embassy, as alleged by the assume that the plotters were acting on for questioning in the conspiracy case. CIA. It's perfectly clear that the actual their own rather than on CIA orders Rather than come down to New Orleans picture of Oswald and his companion when they killed the President. As far as and face the music, Novel dropped his was suppressed and a fake photo sub- we have been able to determine, they suit and sacrificed a possible $60,000,000 stituted because the second man in the were not in the pay of the CIA at the time judgment. Now, there's a man of .pin- picture was working for the CIA in of the assassination—and this is one of ciple; he knows there are some things 1963, and his identification as a CIA the reasons the President was murdered; more important than money. agent would have opened up a whole Do you also believe Clay Shaw's I'll explain later what I mean by that. But PLAYBOY: can of worms about Oswald's ties with lawyers are being paid by the CIA? the CIA could not face up to the Ameri- the Agency. To prevent this, the CIA GARRISON: I can't comment directly on can people and admit that its former em- presented the Warren Commission with ployees had conspired to assassinate the that, since it relates to Shaw's trial. But I think the clincher, as far as Washing- fraudulent evidence—a pattern that re- President; so from the moment Kenne- peats itself whenever the CIA submits dy's heart stopped beating, the Agency ton's obstruction of our probe goes, is the consistent refusal of the Federal Govern- evidence relating to Oswald's possible attempted to sweep the whole conspir- connection with any U. S. intelligence acy under the rug. The CIA has spared ment to make accessible to us any in- agency. The CIA lied to the Commission neither time nor the taxpayers' money formation about the roles of the CIA, right down the line; and since the War- in its efforts to hide the truth about the anti-Castro Cuban exiles and the para- assassination from the American people. military right in the assassination. There ren Commission had no investigative In this respect, it has become an accessory is, without doubt, a conspiracy by ele- staff of its own but had to rely on after the fact in the assassination. ments of the Federal Government to keep the FBI, the Secret Service and the CIA the facts of this case from ever becoming PLAYBOY: Do you have any conclusive for its evidence, it's understandable why evidence to support these accusations? known—a conspiracy that is the logical the Commission concluded that Oswald GARRISON: I've never revealed this be- extension of the initial conspiracy by the had no ties with American intelligence fore, but for at least six months, my office CIA to conceal vital evidence from the agencies. Warren Commission. and home telephones—and those of every PLAYBOY: What was the nature of these What "vital evidence" did the member of my staff—have been moni- PLAYBOY: ties? CIA withhold from the Warren Com- tored. If there is as little substance to this GARRISON: That's not altogether clear, investigation as the press and the Govern- mission? A good example is Commis- at least insofar as his specific assign- ment allege, why would anyone go to all GARRISON: sion Exhibit number 237. This is a ments are concerned; but we do have that trouble? I leave it to your judgment photograph of a stocky, balding, middle- proof that Oswald was recruited by the 70 if the monitoring of our phones is the CIA documents classified- top secret in been attached to a State Department P• CIA in his Marine Corps days, when he the National Archives pertaining to Lee letter on Oswald's Russian stay, word • was mysteriously schooled in Russian came back that the Agency was terribly and allowed to subscribe to Pravda. And Oswald and Jack Ruby. Technically, the members of the Commission had access sorry, but the secret memo had been de- N shortly before his trip to the Soviet to them; but in practice, any document stroyed while being photocopied. This Ps Union, we have learned, Oswald was the CIA wanted classified was shunted unfortunate accident took place on No- of trained as an intelligence agent at the into the Archives without examination vember 23, 1963, a day on which there CIA installation at Japan's Atsugi Air occurred a great deal of spon- by the sleeping beauties on the Commis- must have ri Force Base—which may explain why no sion. Twenty-nine of these files are of taneous combustion around Washington. Os disciplinary action was taken against him PLAYBOY: John A. McCone, former di- when he returned to the U. S. from particular interest, because their titles alone indicate that the CIA had exten- rector of the Central Intelligence Agen- the Soviet Union, even though he had cy, has said of Oswald: "The Agency supposedly defected with top-secret in- sive information on Oswald and Ruby before the assassination. A few of these never contacted him, interviewed him, formation about our radar networks. documents are: CD 347, "Activity of Os- talked with him or received or solicited The money he used to return to the U.S., wald in Mexico City"; CD 1054, "Infor- any reports or information from him or incidentally, was advanced to him by the mation on Jack Ruby and Associates"; communicated with him in any manner. State Department. CD 692, "Reproduction of Official CIA Lee Harvey Oswald was never asso- In an article for Ramparts, PLAYBOY: Dossier on Oswald"; CD 1551, "Conver- ciated or connected directly or indirectly, ex–FBI agent William Turner indicated sations Between Cuban President and in any way whatsoever, with the Agency." that White Russian refugee George De Ambassador"; CD 698, "Reports of Trav- Why do you refuse to accept McCone's Mohrenschildt may have been Oswald's word? el and Activities of Oswald"; CD 943, The head of the CIA, it seems CIA "baby sitter" in Dallas. Have you "Allegations of Pfc. Eugene Dinkin re GARRISON: found any links between the CIA and Assassination Plot"; and CD 971, "Tele- to me, would think long and hard before De Mohrenschildt? phone Calls to U. S. Embassy, Canberra, he admitted that former employees of his I can't comment directly on GARRISON: Australia, re Planned Assassination." had been involved in the murder of the that, but George De Mohrenschildt is cer- President of the United States—even if The titles of these documents are all we weren't acting on behalf of the tainly an enigmatic and intriguing char- have to go on, but they're certainly intri- they acter. Here you have a wealthy, cultured Agency when they did it. In any case, émigré who travels in guing. For example, the public has heard White Russian nothing about phone calls to the U. S. the CIA's past record hardly induces the highest social circles—he was a per- Embassy in Canberra, warning in ad- faith in the Agency's veracity. CIA sonal friend of Mrs. Hugh Auchindoss, vance of the assassination, nor have we officials lied about their role in the over- Jackie Kennedy's mother—suddenly de- been told anything about a Pfc. Dinkin throw of the Arbenz Guzman regime in veloping an intimate relationship with who claims to have knowledge of an as- Guatemala; they lied about their role in an impoverished ex-Marine like Lee Os- sassination plot. One of the top-secret the overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran; wald. What did they discuss—last year's files that most intrigues me is CD 931, they lied about their role in the abortive season at Biarritz, or how to beat the bank which is entitled "Oswald's Access to In- military revolt against Sukarno in 1958; at Monte Carlo? And Mr. De Mohren- formation About the U-2." I have 24 years they lied about the U-2 incident; and schildt has a penchant for popping up in of military experience behind me on ac- they certainly lied about the Bay of Pigs. the most interesting places at the most tive duty and in the reserves, and I've If the CIA is ready to lie even about its interesting times—for example, in Haiti never had any access to the U-2; in fact, successes—as in Guatemala and Iran— just before a joint Cuban exile–CIA ven- I've never seen one. But apparently this do you seriously believe its director ture to topple Duvalier and use the island "self-proclaimed Marxist," Lee Harvey would tell the truth in a case as explosive as a springboard for an invasion of Cuba; as this? Of course, CIA officials grow so and in Guatemala, another CIA training Oswald, who we're assured had no ties to any Government agency, had access to in- used to lying, so steeped in deceit, that ground, the day before the Bay of Pigs after a while I think they really become invasion. We have a good deal more in- formation about the nation's most ocret high-altitude reconnaissance plane. Of incapable of distinguishing truth and formation about Oswald's CIA contacts falsehood. Or, in an Orwellian sense, in Dallas and New Orleans—most of course, it may be that none of these CIA files reveals anything sinister about Lee perhaps they come to believe that truth which we discovered by sheer chance— is what contributes to national security, but there are still whole areas of inquiry Harvey Oswald or hints in any way that he was employed by our Government. and falsehood is anything detrimental to blocked from us by the CIA's refusal to national security. John McCone would cooperate with our investigation. For But then, why are the 51 CIA documents swear he's a Croatian dwarf if he public consumption, the CIA claims not classified top secret in the Archives and thought it would advance the interests of to have been concerned with Oswald inaccessible to the public for 75 years? I'm the CIA—which he automatically equates prior to the assassination. But one thing 45, so there's no hope for me, but I'm al- is certain: Despite these pious protesta- with the national interest. ready training my eight-year-old son to Let's get down to the facts of tions, the CIA was very much aware keep himself physically fit so that on one PLAYBOY: the assassination, as you see them. When of Oswald's activities well before the glorious September morn in 2038 he can —and why—did you begin to doubt the President's murder. In a notarized affi- walk into the National Archives in davit, State Department officer James D. conclusions of the Warren Report? Washington and find out what the CIA Until as recently as Novem- Crowley states, "The first time I re- knew about Lee Harvey Oswald. If GARRISON: ber of 1966, I had complete faith in the member learning of Oswald's existence there's a further extension of the top- Warren Report. As a matter of fact, I was when I received copies of a tele- secret classification, this may become a viewed its most vocal critics with the graphic message from the Central In- generational affair, with questions passed same skepticism that much of the press telligence Agency dated October 10, 1963, down from father to son in the manner now views me—which is why I can't con- which contained information pertaining of the ancient runic bards. But some- demn the mass media too harshly for their to his current activities." It would cer- day, perhaps, we'll find out what Oswald tainly be interesting to know what the cynical approach, except in the handful was doing messing around with the U-2. of cases where newsmen seem to be in CIA knew about Oswald six weeks be- Of course, there are some CIA documents active collusion with Washington to tor- fore the assassination, but the contents we'll never see. When the Warren Com- of this particular message never reached pedo our investigation. Of course, my mission asked to see a secret CIA memo the Warren Commission and remain a faith in the Report was grounded in on Oswald's activities in Russia that had 72 complete mystery. There are also 51 1,1V,,RVI7

Weisberg and Mark Lane—sparked my terest and asked us to turn the three men IP ignorance, since I had never read it; as over to them for questioning. We did, 0 Mark Lane says, "The only way you can general doubts about the assassination; but more importantly, they led me into but Ferrie was released soon afterward believe the Report is not to have read it." and most of its report on him was clas- But then, in November, I visited New specific areas of inquiry. After I realized that something was seriously wrong, I sified top secret and secreted in the Na- 101 York City with Senator Russell Long; had no alternative but to face the fact tional Archives, where it will remain A and when the subject of the assassination that Oswald had arrived in Dallas only a inaccessible to the public until Septem- came up, he expressed grave doubts about be 2038 A. D. No one, including me, can the Warren Commission's conclusion that short time before the assassination and that prior to that time he had lived in see those pages. 111 Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin. New Orleans for over six months. I be- PLAYBOY: Why do you believe the FBI Now, this disturbed me, because here was came curious about what this alleged report on Ferrie is classified? the Majority Whip of the U. S. Senate assassin was doing while under my juris- GARRISON: For the same reason the Presi- speaking, not some publicity hound with diction, and my staff began an investiga- dent's autopsy X rays and photos and an ideological ax to grind; and if at this tion of Oswald's activities and contacts other vital evidence in this case are clas- late juncture he still entertained serious in the New Orleans area. We inter- sified—because they would indicate the reservations about the Commission's de- viewed people the Warren Commission existence of a conspiracy, involving terminations, maybe there was more to had never questioned, and a whole new former employees of the CIA, to kill the the assassination than met the eye. So I world began opening up. As I studied President. began reading every book and magazine Oswald's movements in Dallas, my mind PLAYBOY: When you resumed your in- article on the assassination I could get my turned back to the aftermath of the as- vestigation of Ferrie three years later, hands on—my tombstone may be in- sassination in 1963, when my office ques- did you discover any new evidence? "CURIOSITY KILLED THE D. A."— scribed tioned three men—David Ferrie, Alvin GARRISON: We discovered a whole mare's- and I found my own doubts growing. Beauboeuf and Melvin Coffey—on sus- nest of underground activity involving Finally, I put aside all other business picion of being involved in the assassi- the CIA, elements of the paramilitary and started to wade through the Warren nation. I began to wonder if we hadn't right and militant anti-Castro exile Commission's own 26 volumes of sup- dismissed these three men too lightly, groups. We discovered links between portive evidence and testimony. That and we reopened our investigation into David Ferrie, Lee Oswald and Jack was the clincher. It's impossible for any- their activities. Ruby. We discovered, in short, what one possessed of reasonable objectivity not to find, despite my PLAYBOY: Why did you become interested I had hoped and a fair degree of intelligence to read in Ferrie and his associates in November doubts about the Warren Commission— those 26 volumes and not reach the 1963? the existence of a well-organized con- conclusion that the Warren Commission GARRISON: To explain that, I'll have to spiracy to assassinate John Kennedy, a was wrong in every one of its major con- tell you something about the operation conspiracy that came to fruition in Dal- clusions pertaining to the assassination. of our office. I believe we have one of las on November 22, 1963, and in which For me, that was the end of innocence. the best district attorney's offices in the David Ferrie played a vital role. Do you mean to imply that the PLAYBOY: country. We have no political appoint- PLAYBOY: Accepting for a moment your Warren Commission deliberately con- ments and, as a result, there's a tremen- contention that there was a conspiracy to cealed or falsified the facts of the dous amount of esprit among our staff assassinate President Kennedy, have you assassination? and an enthusiasm for looking into unan- been able to discover who was involved No, you don't need any ex- GARRISON: swered questions. That's why we got —in addition to Ferrie—how it was planation more sinister than incompe- together the day after the assassination done and why? tence to account for the Warren Report. and began examining our files and GARRISON: Yes, I have. President Ken- Though I didn't know it at the time, checking out every political extremist, nedy was killed for one reason: because the Commission simply didn't have all religious fanatic and kook who had ever he was working for a reconciliation with the facts, and many of those they had come to our attention. And one .01 the the U.S.S.R. and Castro's Cuba. His were fraudulent, as I've pointed out— names that sprang into prominence was assassins were a group of fanatic- anti- thanks to the evidence withheld and man- that of David Ferrie. When we checked Communists with a fusion of interests ufactured by the CIA. If you add to this him out, as we were doing with innu- in preventing Kennedy from achieving the fact that most of the Commission merable other suspicious characters, we presumed Oswald's peaceful relations with the Commu- members had already discovered that on November 22nd he nist world. On the operative level of the guilt add were merely looking for facts to had traveled to Texas to go "duck hunt- conspiracy, you find anti-Castro Cuban confirm it—and in the process tranquilize ing" and "ice skating." Well, naturally, exiles who never forgave Kennedy for the American public—you'll realize why this sparked our interest. We staked out failing to send in U. S. air cover at the the Commission was such a dismal failure. his house and we questioned his friends, Bay of Pigs and who feared that the But in the final analysis, it doesn't make and when he came back—the first thing thaw following the Missile Crisis in Octo- he did on his return, incidentally, was to a damn bit of difference whether the ber 1962 augured the total frustration of contact a lawyer and then hide out for Commission members were sincere pa- their plans to liberate Cuba. They be- triots or mountebanks; the question is the night at a friend's room in another town—we pulled him and his two com- lieved sincerely that Kennedy had sold whether Lee Oswald killed the President them out to the Communists. On a high- alone and unaided; if the evidence panions in for questioning. The story of Ferrie's activities that emerged was rather er, control level, you find a number of doesn't support that conclusion—and it people of ultra-right-wing persuasion— doesn't—a thousand honorable men sit- curious. He drove nine hours through a furious thunderstorm to Texas, then ap- not simply conservatives, mind you, but ting shoulder to shoulder along the banks people who could be described as neo- of the Potomac won't change the facts. parently gave up his plans to go duck hunting and instead went to an ice- Nazi, including a small clique that had PLAYBOY: So you began your investiga- defected from the Minutemen because tion of the President's assassination on skating rink in Houston and stood wait- ing beside a pay telephone for two hours; it considered the group "too liberal." nothing stronger than your own doubts These elements had their canteens ready and the theories of the Commission's he never put the skates on. We felt his movements were suspicious enough to and their guns loaded; they lacked only critics? a target. After Kennedy's domestic GARRISON: No, please don't put words justify his arrest and that of his friends, and we took them into custody. When moves toward racial integration and his in my mouth. The works of the critics- (continued on page 156) we alerted the FBI, they expressed in- 74 particularly Edward Epstein, Harold ning as early as 1889. aware of what awaits them if convicted, PLAYBOY INTERVIEW • To assume, finally, that castration (continued from page 74) 0 will be so effectively deterred that the crime of rape will be reduced almost to would serve as a deterrent is to assume attempts to forge a peaceful foreign poli- m extinction. that the rapist has a rational mind. Many cy, as exemplified by his signing of the M (Name withheld by request) rapists act in what psychiatrists call a Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, they found that New York, New York fugue slate—scarcely aware of what target. So both of these groups had a vital Psychiatrists reject this proposal be- they are doing, much less of what the stake in changing U.S. foreign policy— ideological on the part of the para- cause rape is the act of a sadist, not of a consequences of their behavior will be. as Cruel and unusual punishments will no military rightists and both ideological normal man with an excess of sexual and personal with the anti-Castro exiles, energy. What needs to be changed is his more stop them than will eloquent preachments. "Rape will be reduced al- many of whom felt they would never see mental attitude, not his ability to have an their homes again if Kennedy's policy of erection; the average rapist is a man who most to extinction" only when a truly détente was allowed to succeed. The will walk past a house of prostitution, or rational society is evolved, in which CIA was involved with both of these leave a loving wife at home, to force children's sexual attitudes are not dis- groups. In the New Orleans area, where himself on a frightened and unwilling torted. Meanwhile, the only humane way the conspiracy was hatched, the CIA victim, because the creation of terror and society can protect itself from the rapist was training a mixed bag of Minutemen, Cuban exiles and other anti-Castro ad- the use of violence are the real gratifica- is to confine him, and the only humane venturers north of Lake Pontchartrain tions that he seeks. cure society has devised for the rapist— imperfect as it may be—is psychotherapy. for a foray into Cuba and an assassina- Clinical evidence shows that castra- tion attempt on Fidel Castro. David Fer- tion is 100-percent effective in reducing "The Playboy Forum" offers the oppor- rie, who operated on the "command" erectile potency only if performed before tunity for an extended dialog between level of the ultra-rightists, was deeply puberty. When the operation is per- involved in this effort. The CIA itself formed on adults, their ability to have an readers and editors of this publication apparently did not take the détente for erection frequently will not wane on subjects and issues raised in Hugh too seriously until the late summer of some time, often not for years. Whether M. Hefner's continuing editorial series, 1963, because it maintained its financing or not the castrated rapist retains his "The Playboy Philosophy." Four booklet and training of anti-Castro adventurers. potency, the desired results are seldom reprints of "The Playboy Philosophy," There was, in fact, a triangulation of CIA-supported anti-Castro activity be- achieved: If he is made impotent, he including installments 1-7, 8-12, 13-18 tween Dallas—where Jack Ruby was and 19-22, are available at 50¢ per book- often shifts to nonsexual and therefore involved in collecting guns and am- more bizarre forms of assault; if he re- let. Address all correspondence on both munition for the underground—and Mi- mains potent, he becomes more vicious "Philosophy" and "Forum" to: The ami and New Orleans, where most of the out of a desire for revenge against so- Playboy Forum, Playboy Building, 919 N. training was going on. But then, Kenne- ciety. These conclusions have emerged Michigan Ave., Chicago, Illinois 60611. dy, who had signed a secret agreement from several attempts in various nations with Khrushchev after the Missile Crisis to employ this dubious "remedy," begin- pledging not to invade Cuba if Russia would soft-pedal Castro's subversive ac- tivities in the Americas, began to crack down on CIA operations against Cuba. As a result, on July 31, 1963, the FBI raided the headquarters of the group of Cuban exiles and Minutemen training north of Lake Pontchartrain and con- fiscated all their guns and ammunition —despite the fact that the operation had the sanction of the CIA. This action may have sealed Kennedy's fate. By the early fall of 1963, Kennedy's plan for a dé- tente with Cuba was in high gear. Ambassador William Attwood, a close personal friend of the late President, recounts that a thaw in U.S.-Cuban rela- tions was definitely in the works at this time and "the President more than the State Department was interested in ex- ploring the [Cuban] overture." One of the intermediaries between Castro and Kennedy was the late television com- mentator Lisa Howard, who met secretly with Ernesto Che Guevara to prepare peace terms between the U. S. and Cas- tro. Miss Howard was arranging a con- ference between Bobby Kennedy and Guevara when the President was shot in Dallas. In a United Nations speech on October 7, 1963, Adlai Stevenson set forth the possibility of a termination of "Wonderful news, Peter! There's going hostilities between the two countries to be another Crusade!" 156 ■11

and on November 19th, Presidential aide McGeorge Bundy, who was acting as an intermediary in the secret discussions, told Ambassador Attwood that the Presi- dent wanted to discuss his plans for a Cuban-American detente in depth with him right after "a brief trip to Dallas." ow. The rest is history. One of the two heads of state involved in negotiating that de- tente is now dead, but the 'survivor, Fi- Get behind an del Castro, said on November 23rd that the assassination was the work of "ele- ments in the U. S. opposed to peace," and the Cuban Foreign Ministry official- AeC. ly charged that "the Kennedy assassina- tion was a provocation against world A well played round? Now you deserve something special— peace perfectly and minutely prepared and you've got it. A mild tasting A&C cigar. In light or by the most reactionary sectors of the dark wrappers, A&C'S unique blend of fine imported and United States." Most Americans at the choice domestic tobaccos gives you real flavor—and time, myself included, thought this was flavor's the reason A&C sales are really soaring these days. just Communist propaganda. But Castro Get behind an A&C Grenadier (shown actual size), knew what he was talking about. A few or choose a Panetela, Tony or any one of A&C's nine other weeks after the assassination, the Cuban sizes and shapes. Pack or box, you're ahead behind an A&C. ambassador to the UN, Dr. Carlos Le- chuga, was instructed by Castro to begin "formal discussions" in the hope that Kennedy's peace plan would be car- ried on by his successor. Ambassador Antonio y Cleopatra Attwood writes that "I informed Bundy the cigar that's going places and later was told that the Cuban exer- cise would be put on ice for a while— which it was and where it has been ever since." The assassins had achieved their aim. PLAYBOY: This is interesting speculation, but isn't that all it is—speculation? GARRISON: No, because we know enough about the key individuals involved in the conspiracy—Latins and Americans alike —to know that this was their motive for the murder of John Kennedy. First of all, you have to understand the mentality of these people. Take the Cuban exiles in- volved; Isere are men, some of whom sur- vived the Bay of Pigs, who for years had been whipped up by the CIA into a frenzy of anti-Castro hatred and who had been solemnly assured by American in- telligence agencies that they were going to liberate their homeland with American support. They had one disappointment after another—the Bay of Pigs debacle, the failure to invade Cuba during the Missile Crisis, the effective crushing of their underground in Cuba by CaStro's secret police. But they kept on hoping, and the CIA kept fanning their hopes. Then they listened to Kennedy's famous speech at American University on June 10, 1963, where he really kicked off the new drive for a detente, and they heard the President of the country in which they'd placed all their hope saying we must make peace with the Communists, since "we both breathe the same air." Well, this worries them, but the CIA con- tinues financing and training their under- ground cadres, so there is still hope. And then suddenly, in the late summer of 1963, the CIA is forced by Presidential pressure to withdraw all funds and A.A. yr AZ uwi crharagrafr 0.4.2:C. 157 assistance from the Cuban exiles. Think of the impact of this, particularly on the group here in New Orleans, which had been trained for months to make an as- sassination attempt on Castro and then found itself coolly jettisoned by its bene- factors in Washington. These adventurers were worked up to a fever pitch; and when the CIA withdrew its support and they couldn't fight Castro, they picked their next victim—John F. Kennedy. That, in a nutshell, is the genesis of the assassination. President Kennedy died because he wanted peace. PLAYBOY: How many people do you claim were involved in this alleged conspiracy? GARRISON: Too many for their own se- curity. If they had let fewer men in on the plot, we might never have stumbled onto it. But let me add one additional point here: The brief account I've just given you shouldn't be construed to indi- cate that any of the legitimate anti- Castro organizations were involved in the assassination—or that all Minutemen All over the world King George IV sells at the were implicated. 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But I'll give you a on black or black on brief sketch of how the conspiracy was white, chili, bright gold and organized, and then point by point we emerald. S, M, L, XL sizes. can go into the participants we know WA106, short sleeve, about so far and the role we believe each played. Let me stress at the outset $4.50 ppd . that what I'm going to tell you is not WA107, long sleeve, idle speculation; we have facts, docu- $5 ppd. ments and reliable eyewitness testimony Shall we enclose a gift card in to corroborate much of it—though I can't your name? Please send check lay all this evidence before you without or money order to: PLAYBOY PRODUCTS, The Playboy Building, jeopardizing the investigation. But there 919 N. Michigan Ave., are many pieces of the jigsaw puzzle still Chicago, Ill. 60611. Playboy Club credit missing. Not one of the conspirators has keyholders may charge confessed his guilt, so we don't yet have an to their keys. "inside" view of all the pre-assassination 158 planning. In order to fill in these gaps Attorney General Ramsey Clark an- us. The natural reaction of many people for you, I'll have to indulge in a bit nounced that Shaw "was inducted in an across the country to Clark's statement, of informed deduction and surmise. It investigation in November and Decem- which was carried prominently on TV may sound melodramatic, but you can ber of 1963 and on the evidence that the and in the press, was, "Well, if the FBI best envisage the plot as a spider's web. FBI has, there was no connection found cleared him, there can't be anything to At the center sit the organizers of the between Shaw and the President's assas- this whole conspiracy business." Most operation, men with dose ties to U. S. sination." Why do you challenge the defendants have to wait for trial before and western-European intelligence agen- Attorney General's statement? they're allowed to produce character GARRISON: Because it was not true. The witnesses. When, three months later, the cies. One of them is a former associate of FBI did not clear Clay Shaw after the Justice Department finally admitted Jack Ruby in gun-smuggling activities assassination. You don't have to take my Clark was "in error," the story appeared and a dedicated neo-Nazi in close contact word for it; The New York Times report- in only a few newspapers and wasn't with neo-fascist movements in Great Brit- ed on June third that "The Justice De- picked up by the radio or TV networks. ain, Germany, France and Italy. Radiat- partment said today that Clay Shaw, New But what was even more significant about ing out from these key men, the strands Orleans businessman, was not investigat- the Justice Department's attempt to bail of the web include a motley group of ed by the Federal Bureau of Investiga- out Shaw was the fact that the day 'after political adventurers united only in their tion. . . The statement contradicted Clark's statement, The New York Times' detestation of Kennedy and their dedica- Attorney General Ramsey Clark. . . . A Washington correspondent, Robert B. tion to the reversal of his foreign policy. Justice Department spokesman said that Semple, Jr., reported that he had been One such man was David Ferrie. Another Mr. Clark's statement last March second told by an unnamed Justice Department member of this group is an individual was in error." Now, the Attorney Gener- spokesman that his agency was con- who deliberately impersonated Lee Os- al's attempt to whitewash Shaw via the vinced "that Mr. Bertrand and Mr. Shaw wald before the assassination in order to FBI, as you pointed out, was made imme- were the same man"—and that was the incriminate him; we believe we know diately after our office arrested him, and reason Clark released his untrue story his identity. Several others, about whom it really constituted the first salvo of the about the FBI's having cleared Shaw! In we have evidence indicating that they propaganda barrage laid down against other words, knowing that our case was helped supply weapons to the plotters, were the right-wing extremists I men- tioned earlier who broke off from a fa- natic paramilitary group because it was becoming "too liberal." Also involved is a band of anti-Castro adventurers who functioned on the second, or "operative," level of the conspiracy. These men in- clude two Cuban exiles, one of whom failed a lie-detector test when he denied knowing in advance that Kennedy was going to be killed or having seen the weapons to be used in the assassination— and a number of men who fired at the President from three directions on No- vember 22nd. The link between the "command" level and the Cuban exiles was an amorphous group called the Free Cuba Committee, which with CIA sanc- tion had begun training north of Lake Pontchartrain for an assassination at- tempt on Fidel Castro, as I mentioned earlier. It was this group that was raided by the FBI on Jthy 31st, 1963, and tem- porarily put out of commission. Our in- formation indicates that it was shortly after this setback that the group switched direction and decided to acca.tsinate John Kennedy instead of Fidel Castro, after the "betrayal" of the Bay of Pigs disaster. That's it in a nutshell, but I think the development of the conspiracy will be- come dearer if you ask me one by one about the individuals involved. PLAYBOY: All right, let's begin with Clay Shaw. What was his role in the alleged conspiracy? GARRISON: I'm afraid I can't comment even inferentially on anything pertaining to the evidence against Mr. Shaw, since he's facing trial in my jurisdiction. PLAYBOY: Can you answer a charge about your case against him? On March second "Marcia, you could have just said no instead of telling of this year, shortly after Shaw's arrest, me this was the door to the bathroom!" 159 based on fact, the Justice Department eral Edwin Walker, eight months before in the conspiracy. After "defecting" to the assassination? Russia, where he served as an agent for 0 deliberately dragged a red herring across the trail. GARRISON: If he did it, his motive—which the CIA—perhaps this is where his fa PLAYBOY: Are you free to discuss Oswald's is to say the motive of those behind him— knowledge about the U-2 becomes rele- role in the conspiracy? was a simple one: to ensure that after the vant—he returned to this country in June GARRISON: Yes, but before you can un- assassination, people would ask this very 1962, lived in Fort Worth and Dallas un- til April 1963, and then went to New a derstand Oswald's role in the plot, question and assume that because Oswald you've got to jettison the image of him had shot at General Walker, he must Orleans, where he resumed his friendship as a "self-proclaimed Marxist" that the have been a left-winger. It was just an- with David Ferrie, whom he had met mass media inculcated in the public con- other part of Oswald's cover; if you several years before when he belonged sciousness after his arrest on November defect to Russia, pass out pro-Castro to a Civil Air Patrol unit led by Ferrie. 22nd. Oswald's professed Marxist sym- leaflets on street corners and take a pot We have evidence that Oswald main- pathies were just a cover for his real shot at General Walker, who on earth tained his CIA contacts throughout this activities. I don't believe there are any would doubt you're a Communist? Of period and that Ferrie was also employed serious students of the assassination who course, if you really look deeply into this by the CIA. In this regard, we will pre- CIA don't recognize that Oswald's actual incident, there is no real proof that Os- sent in court a witness—formerly a political orientation was extreme right wald was the man who did it; the whole courier—who met both Ferrie and Os- wing. His associates in Dallas and New charge rests on the unsupported testimo- wald officially in their CIA connection. Orleans—apart from his CIA contacts— ny of Marina Oswald, after she had been Parenthetically, Ferrie gave his name as were exclusively right wing, some covert, threatened with deportation if she didn't Ferris to this witness—a name recorded others overt; in fact, our office has posi- "cooperate." It makes little difference, without further explanation in Jack tively identified a number of his associates though, whether this incident was pre- Ruby's address book. In 1963, Ferrie and as neo-Nazis. Oswald would have been pared in advance to create a cover for Oswald worked together closely. They more at home with Mein Kampf than Oswald or fabricated after the assassi- were two of the organizers of the group Das Kapital. nation to strengthen his public image as of anti-Castro exiles and Minutemen PLAYBOY: If Oswald wasn't a leftist, what a Marxist. But we've gotten ahead of who trained north of Lake Pontchartrain motivation would he have had for shoot- ourselves. Let's backtrack a bit to fill in [or a foray into Cuba to assassinate Cas- ing at another right-winger, Major Gen- the background of Oswald's involvement tro—the venture that changed direction in the summer of 1963 and chose John Kennedy as its new victim. Toward this end—for reasons that will become clear —it became Oswald's role to establish his public identity as a Marxist. It ap- pears that it was with this plan in mind that Oswald was sent to Mexico City in order to get a visa for travel to Cuba, where he planned to solidify his Marx- ist image, perhaps by making himself conspicuous with a few incendiary anti- Kennedy speeches, and then return to Dallas in time for the assassination. How- ever, this end of the plot was frustrated because the Soviet and Cuban intelli- gence services apparently had Oswald pegged as an intelligence agent, and he was refused visas at both embassies. An- other way in which Oswald tried to establish his procommunism was by set- ting up a letterhead Fair Play for Cuba Committee—of which he was the only member—and distributing on street cor- ners leaflets praising Castro. He made two blunders here, however. First, one of the men helping him hand out leaflets was a fanatic anti-Castro Cuban exile whom we've subsequently identified from TV footage of a street incident. Second, Oswald "blew his cover" by using the wrong address for his phony New Orleans Fair Play for Cuba Committee. PLAYBOY: Will you elaborate on this second point? GARRISON: Yes, because this incident ties together some of the strands of the spider's web. At the time Oswald started his so-called Fair Play for Cuba Commit-• "He works much too hard, the dear. I'd feel so much tee, two men—Hugh Ward and Guy Ban- nister—operated a private investigative 160 better if he insured himself to the hilt." .agency at 544 Camp Street in downtown New Orleans. There are some intriguing aspects to their operation. For one thing, Guy Bannister was one of dr° most militant right-wing anti-Communists in New Orleans. He was a former FBI official and his headquarters at 544 Camp HICKORY Street was a clearinghouse for Cuban exile and paramilitary right-wing activities. Specifically, he allowed his office to be used as a mail drop for the anti-Castro Cuban Democratic Revolutionary Front; Feels nice police intelligence records at the time reported that this group was "legitimate in nature and presumably had the un- official sanction of the Central Intelli- gence Agency." It did. Bannister also inside you. published a newsletter for his clients that included virulent anti-Kennedy polemics. My office also has evidence that Bannisur had intimate tics with the Office of Naval Intelligence and the CIA. Both Bannister and Ward were deeply involved in covert anti-Castro exile activities in New Or leans. Bannister in particular seemed to have had an almost messianic drive to fight communism in every country in Latin America; and he was naturally of value to Cuban exiles because of his in- timate connections with American intelli- gence agencies. In the Ramparts article you mentioned earlier, ex–FBI agent Bill Turner revealed that both Bannister and Ward were listed in secret Minutemen files as members of the Minutemen and SlIAICIT BOHM MICKY • Ili MK • Ill NOM OISILLEIS CO., PRIM operatives of a group called the Anti- Communistn League of the Caribbean. which was allegedly used by the CIA in the overthrow of the Guatemalan gov- ernment in 1954. So, in other words. these are the last guys in the world you'd expect to find tied up with left-wing or pro-Castro activities. Right? And yet, when Lee Harvey Oswald set up his fictitious branch of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New Orleans, he distributed leaflets giving the commit-, tee's address as 544 Camp Street—Guy Bannister's office) Somebody must have pointed out to Oswald shortly afterward that he was endangering his cover by using this address, because he subse- quently changed it to 4907 Magazine Street. But it's certainly significant that at the inception of his public role as a pro-Castro activist, Oswald was utilizing the mailbox of the most militantly con- servative and anti-Communist outfit in the city. I might add that we have several witnesses who will testify in court that they saw Oswald hanging out at 544 Camp Street. I want to stress, however, that I have no evidence that Bannister and Ward were involved in the plot to kill Kennedy. Their office was a kind of HARBOR AtANTEIE This one moves with you. The sturdy all- way station for anti-Castro and r*Itt- weather "Mustang." Tailored of an exclusive Buoy Cloth 2x2 poplin of 65% Dacron* and 35% cotton. The rain-and-stain treatment: ZEPEL.0 The moving touches: an action-back pleat, full wing extremists passing through New lining, raglan sleeves with adjustable cuffs, zipper front, stand-up collar. The extras: brawny Orleans, and it's perfectly possible that pockets hidden under the front yoke, bold stitching at collar and cuffs. In short, a jacket that they were completely unaware of the con moves well, "The Mustang," spiracy being hatched by men like Ferrie Harbor Master Ltd. A Division of Jonathan Logan, 1290 Avenue of the Americas, N.Y. 10018. and Oswald. Featured at all B&B Lorry's Metropolitan N.Y. stores and other fine stores from coast to coast. PLAYBOY: Were any of the other figures • Dupont reg. T. M. for its Polyester Fiber e Dupont reg. T. M. for its Fabric Fluoridiser 161 IS in the alleged conspiracy connected with there was anything sinister about the Moreover, some of Oswald's anti-Castro ' a Bannister? crash, though rumors always spring up friends from Miami and New Orlean; GARRISON: Yes, David Ferrie was a paid in a case like this. The only thing I will showed up in Dallas in October of 1963. N investigator for Bannister, and the two say is that witnesses in this case do have In a "Supplementary Investigation Re- Is men knew each other very well. Dur- a habit of dying at the most inconvenient port" filed on November 23, 1963, by o' ing 1962 and 1963, Ferrie spent a good times. I understand a London insurance Dallas policeman Buddy Walthers, an deal of time at 544 Camp Street and firm has prepared an actuarial chart aide to Sheriff Bill Decker, Walthers ri he made a series of mysterious long- on the likelihood of 20 of the people stated: "I talked to Sorrels, the head of Ps distance phone calls to Central America involved in this case dying within three the Dallas Secret Service. I was advised from Bannister's office. We have a record years of the assassination—and found that for the past few months at a house of those calls. the odds 30 trillion to one. But I'm at 3128 Harlandale, some Cubans had PLAYBOY: Where are Bannister and Ward sure NBC will shortly discover that one been having meetings on the weekends now? of my investigators bribed the computer. and were possibly connected with the GARRISON: Both have died since the as- PLAYBOY: Was Oswald involved with Freedom for Cuba Party of which Oswald sassination—Bannister of a heart attack paramilitary activists and anti-Castro was a member." No attention was paid to in 1964 and Ward when the plane he was Cuban exiles in Dallas, as well as in New Walthers' report, and on November 26th, piloting for New Orleans Mayor De Les- Orleans? he complained: "I don't know what ac- seps Morrison crashed in Mexico in GARRISON: Oh, God, yes. In fact, many tion the Secret Service has taken, but I 1964. De Lesseps Morrison, as it hap- of his New Orleans contacts overlap with learned today that some time between seven days before the President was shot pened, had introduced Clay Shaw to those in Dallas. Jack Ruby, who played and the day after he was shot, these Cu- President Kennedy on an airplane flight a key role in smuggling guns to the anti- Castro underground—on behalf of the bans moved from this house. My inform- in 1963. ant stated that subject Oswald had Do you believe there was any- CIA—was one of Oswald's contacts in PLAYBOY: been to this house before." This was the Dallas. Furthermore, Oswald was virtual- thing sinister about the crash that killed last that was ever heard of the mysteri- ly surrounded by White Russians in Dal- both Morrison and Ward? ous Cubans at 3128 Harlandale. A sig- las, some of whom were CIA employees. GARRISON: I have no reason to believe nificant point in Walthers' repcirt is his mention of the Freedom for Cuba Par- ty. This appears to be a corruption of the anti-Castro Free Cuba Committee of which Oswald, Ferrie and a small cadre of neo-Nazis--including the man we believe was the "second Oswald"—were members. You may remember that on the night of the assassination, Dallas D. A. Henry Wade called a press confer- ence and at one point referred to Oswald as a member of the "Free Cuba Commit- tee" instead of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. Jack Ruby, who just hap- pened to be there, promptly chimed in to correct him. Ruby was obviously in the jail that night on a dry run prior to his successful murder of Oswald on Sunday —a possibility the Warren Commission never bothered to consider—and could hardly have been eager to draw atten- tion to himself. However, he must have been afraid that if the press reported Os- wald was a member of the "Free Cuba Committee," somebody might begin an investigation of that group and discover its anti-Castro and ultra-right-wing ori- entation. And so he risked his cover to set the record straight and protect his fellow conspirators. PLAYBOY: In regard to Oswald's role in the conspiracy, you have said that "Ile was a decoy at first and then he was a patsy and then he was a victim." Would you explain what you meant by that? GARRISON: Oswald's role in the pro- posed assassination of Kennedy, as far as he seems to have known, was strictly political: not to fire a gun but—for rea- sons that may not have been explained to him by his superiors at their planning sessions—to establish his left-wing bona cl9cifRaN fides so unshakably that after the assassi- nation, quite possibly unbeknownst to him, the President's murder would appear 162 "Well, all the sign said was, `Joe's Topless Restaurant.' " to be' the work of a sharpshooting left- likely that he was aware of his role as a when there was absolutely no evidence wing fanatic and thus allow the other decoy. But even if he was, it's probable linking Oswald to the assassination. The plotters, including the men who actually that he would have been given some Dallas police have never been able to shot Kennedy, to escape police attention cock-and-bull assurances about being explain who transmitted this wanted and flee Dallas. Though he may not have richly rewarded and smuggled out of the notice or on what evidence it was based; known why he was instructed to do so, country after Kennedy's death. But it's and the Warren Commission brushed this was undoubtedly why he got the even more probable, in my opinion—if aside the whole matter as unimportant. I job at the Texas School Book Depository he did know the true nature of his role think it's obvious that the conspirators Building; we've learned that one of the —that he wouldn't have felt the necessity tipped off the police, probably anony- members of the conspiracy was in a posi- to escape. He would have known that no mously, in the hope—subsequently real- tion to learn from perfectly innocent Dal- jury in the world—even in Dallas— ized—that all attention would henceforth las business contacts the route of the would have been able to find him guilty be focused on Oswald and the heat Presidential motorcade more than a of the assassination on the strength of would be taken off other members of month before Kennedy's visit. The con- such transparently contrived circumstan- the plot. We have evidence that the plan spirators—more than probably not in- tial evidence. was to have him shot as a cop killer in cluding Oswald—knew this would place PLAYBOY: That's debatable. But even if the Texas Theater "while resisting ar- him on the scene and convince the world Oswald had been brought to trial for and rest." I can't go into all the details on that a demented Marxist was the real acquitted of the assassination, what rea- this, but the murder of Tippit, which I assassin. son would he have had to believe that am convinced Oswald didn't commit, was PLAYBOY: Even if Oswald was unaware of he would also be exonerated of involve- clearly designed to set the stage for Os- his role as a decoy, didn't he suspect that ment in the conspiracy—which you've wald's liquidation in the Texas Theater he might be double-crossed by his co- admitted yourself? after another anonymous tip-off. But here conspirators? GARRISON: I don't want to evade your the plotters miscalculated, and Oswald GARRISON: We have uncovered substantial question, but I can't answer it without was not shot to death but was merely evidence that he was influenced and ma- compromising my investigation of a cru- roughed up and rushed off to the Dallas nipulated rather easily by his older and cial new area of the conspiracy. I'm jail—where, you may remember, he more sophisticated superiors in the con- afraid I can't discuss it until we've built shouted to reporters as the police dragged spiracy, and it's probable that he trusted a solid case. I can say, however, that what- him through the corridors on November them more than he distrusted them. But ever his knowledge of his role as a decoy, 22nd: "I didn't kill anyone—I'm being even if the opposite were true, I think he definitely didn't know about his role made a patsy." The conspiracy had gone he would have done what he was told. as a patsy until after the assassination. seriously awry and the plotters were in PLAYBOY: Even if he suspected that he At 12:45 P.M. on November 22nd, the danger of exposure by Oswald. Enter might be arrested and convicted as the Dallas police had broadcast a wanted Jack Ruby—and exit Oswald. So first President's assassin? bulletin for Oswald—over a half hour Oswald was a decoy, next a patsy and GARRISON: As I said, I don't think it's before Tippit was shot and at a time finally—in the basement of the Dallas jail

hyveR, OUSE IMPORTED RARE SCOTCH 100% BLENDED SCOTCH WHISKY EIGHTY PROOF IMPORTED BY INVER HOUSE DISTILLERS. LTD.. PHILA. 163 on November 24, 1963—a victim. right hand but not on your left. I'm dow of the Book Depository, who did?, PLAYBOY: Even if Oswald was a scapegoat smoking a pipe, which I interchange be- GARRISON: Our office has developed evi- in the alleged conspiracy, why do you tween my hands, so I'll have traces of dence that the President was assassinated believe he couldn't also have been one nitrate on both hands but not on my by a precision guerrilla team of at least of those who shot at the President? cheeks. The morning of the assassina- seven men, including anti-Castro adven- GARRISON: If there's one thing the War- tion, Oswald was moving crates in a turers and members of the paramilitary ren Commission and its 26 volumes of newly painted room, which was likely to right. Of course, the Ministry of Truth supportive evidence demonstrate conclu- have left traces of nitrate on both his concluded—by scrupulously ignoring the sively, it's that Lee Harvey Oswald did hands. Now, of course, if the nitrate test most compelling evidence and carefully not shoot John Kennedy on November had proved positive, and Oswald did selecting only those facts that conformed 22, 1963. Of course, the Commission have nitrate on one hand and on his to its preconceived thesis of a lone assassin concluded not only that Oswald fired at cheek, that would still not constitute —that "no credible evidence suggests the President but that he was a marks- proof positive that he'd fired a gun, that the shots were fired from . . . any man, that he had enough time to "fire because the nitrates could have been left place other than the Texas School Book three shots, with two hits, within 4.8 by a substance other than gunpowder. Depository Building." But anyone who and 5.6 seconds," that his Mannlicher- But the fact that he had no nitrate what- takes the time to read the Warren Report Carcano was an accurate rifle, etc.—but soever on his cheek is ineluctable proof will find that of the witnesses in Dealey all these conclusions are actually in direct that he never fired a rifle that day. If he Plaza who were able to assess the origin contradiction of the evidence within the had washed his face to remove the nitrate of the shots, almost two thirds said they Commission's own 26 volumes. By culling before the test was administered, there came from the grassy-knoll area in front and coordinating that evidence, the lead- would have been none on his hands and to the right of the Presidential lim- ing critics of the Commission have either—unless he was in the habit of ousine and not from the Book Depository, proved that Oswald was a mediocre washing with gloves on. This was a sticky which was to the rear of the President. A shot; that the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle problem for the Warren Commission, but number of reliable witnesses testified he allegedly used was about the crum- they resolved it with their customary that they heard shots ring out from be- miest weapon on the market today; aplomb. An expert was dug up who hind the picket fence and saw a puff of that its telescopic sight was loose and testified that in a Mannlicher-Carcano smoke drift into the air. Additional evi- had to be realigned before Commission rifle, the chamber is so tight that no dence supporting this can be found in the experts could fire it; that the 20-year-old nitrates are emitted upon firing; and Zapruder film published in Life, which ammunition he would have had to use the Commission used this testimony to reveals that the President was slammed could not have been relied on to fire dismiss the whole subject. However, the backward by the impact of a bullet; un- accurately, if at all; that the rifle quite inventor of the nitrate test subsequently less you abrogate Newton's third law of possibly was taken from Oswald's home tested the IV lannlicher-Carcano and found motion, this means the President was shot after the assassination and planted in that it did leave nitrate traces. He was from the front. Also—though they were the Depository; that the Commission's not called to testify by the Warren Com- contradicted later—several of the doctors own chronology of Oswald's movements mission. So the nitrate test alone is incon- at Parkland Hospital who examined the made it highly implausible for him to trovertible proof that Oswald did not fire President's neck wound contended it was fire three shots, wipe the rifle clear of a rifle on November 22nd. We've also _an entrance wound, which would cer- fingerprints—there were none found on found some new evidence that shows that tainly tend to indicate that Kennedy was it—hide the rifle under a stack of books Oswald's Mamilicher-Carcano was not the shot from the front. In the course of our and rush down four flights of stairs to only weapon discovered in the Depository investigation, we've uncovered additional the second floor, all in the few seconds Building after the assassination. I recent- evidence establishing absolutely that there it took Roy Truly and Officer Marrion ly to New York for a conference were at least four men on the grassy Baker to rush in from the street after with Richard Sprague, a brilliant man knoll, at least two behind the picket the shots and encounter Oswald stand- who's been independently researching fence and two or more behind a small ing beside the vending machine in the technical aspects of the assassination, stone wall to the right of the fence. As I employees cafeteria. I could cite ad- and he showed me a hitherto unpub- reconstruct it from the still-incomplete ditional evidence proving that Oswald licized collection of film clips from a evidence in our possession, one man fired didn't fire a rifle from the sixth floor motion picture taken of the assassination at the President from each location, while of the Depository, but it would just be a and its aftermath. Part of the film, shot the role of his companion was to snatch recapitulation of the excellent books of shortly after one P. as., shows the Dallas up the cartridges as they were ejected. the critics, to which I refer your readers. police carrying the assassination weapon Parenthetically, a book on firearms There are a number of factors that we've out of the Book Depository. They stop characteristics was found in Ferrie's apart- examined independently during the for the photographers and an officer holds ment. It was filled with underlining and course of our investigation that also the rifle up above his head so that the marginal notations, and the most heavily prove Oswald didn't shoot at the Presi- inquisitive crowd can look at it. There's annotated section was one describing the dent. For one thing, the nitrate test ad- just one little flaw here: This rifle does direction and distance a cartridge travels ministered to Oswald on the day of the not have a telescopic sight, and thus can- from a rifle after ejection. Scribbled on a assassination clearly exonerated him of not be Oswald's rifle. This weapon was bookmark in this section, in Ferrie's having fired a rifle within the past 24 taken from the building approximately handwriting, were the figures, not men- hours. He had nitrates on both hands, 20 minutes before Oswald's Mannlicher- tioned in the text, "50° and 11 feet"— but no nitrates on his cheek—which Carcano was "discovered"—or planted— which indicates the possibility that Fer- means it was impossible for him to have on the premises. To sum up: Oswald was rie had test-fired a rifle and plotted the fired a rifle. The fact that he had nitrates involved in the conspiracy; shots were distance from the gunman to where the on both hands is regarded in the nitrate fired at Kennedy from the Depository ejected cartridges would fall. But to re- test as a sign of innocence; it's the same but also from the grassy knoll and appar- turn to the scene of the crime, it seems as having nitrates on neither hand. This ently from the Dal-Tex Building as well virtually certain that the cartridges, along is because so many ordinary objects leave —but not one of them was fired by Lee with the rifles, were then thrown into the traces of nitrate on the hands. You're Harvey Oswald, and not one of them trunk of a car—parked directly behind smoking a cigar, for example—tobacco from his Mannlicher-Carcano. the picket fence—which was driven from contains nitrate; so if you were tested PLAYBOY: If Oswald didn't shoot Presi- the scene some hours after the assassina- right now, you'd have nitrate on your dent Kennedy from the sixth-floor win- tion. If there had been a thorough search 165 who was not involved in the-shooting but tion of the President's skull and killed of all vehicles in the vicinity of the grassy him. Like most of the other condusion1 knoll immediately after the assassination, created a diversionary action in order to distract people's attention from the snip- of the Commission, this one contradicts this incriminating evidence might have both the evidence and the testimony of been uncovered—along with the real ers. This individual screamed, fell to the ground and simulated an epileptic fit, eyewitnesses. The initial shot hit the authors of the President's murder. In ad- President in the front of the neck, as dition to the assassins on the grassy knoll, drawing people away from the vicinity of the knoll just before the President's mo- the Parkland Hospital doctors recognized at least two other men fired from behind —though they were later contradicted by the President, one from the Book Deposi- torcade reached the ambush point. So you have at least seven people involved, the military physicians at the Bethesda tory Building—not Oswald—and one, in autopsy, and by the Warren Report. with four firing at the President and all probability, from the Dal-Tex Build- The second shot struck the President in catching him in a crossfire—just as the ing. As it happens, a man was arrested the back; the location of this wound can assassins had planned at the meeting in right after the assassination as he left be verified not by consulting the official David Ferrie's apartment in September. the Dal-Tex Building and was taken autopsy report—on which the Commis- away in a patrol car, but like the three It was a precision operation and was car- sion based its conclusion that this bullet other men detained after the assassina- ried out coolly and with excellent coordi- hit Kennedy in the back of the neck and tion—one in the railroad yard behind nation; the assassins even kept in contact exited from his throat—but by perusing the grassy knoll, one on the railroad by radio. The President, of course, had the reports filed by two FBI agents who overpass farther down the parade route, no chance. It was an overkill operation. were present at the President's autopsy and one in front of the Book Depository As far as the actual sequence of shots goes, in Bethesda, Maryland. Both stated un- Building—he then dropped out of sight you'll remember that the Warren Com- equivocally that the bullet in question completely. All of these suspects taken mission conduded that only three bullets entered President Kennedy's back and did into custody after the assassination re- were fired at the President—one that hit not continue through his body. I also re- main as anonymous as if they'd been de- just below the back of his neck, exited fer you to a photograph of the President's tained for throwing a candy wrapper on through his throat and then passed shirt taken by the FBI, and to a drawing the sidewalk. We have also located an- through Governor Connally's body; one of the President's back wound made by other man—in green combat fatigues— that missed; and one that blew off a por- one of the examining physicians at Be- thesda; the location of the wound in both cases corresponds exactly—more than three inches below the President's neck. Yet the Commission concluded that this wound occurred in his neck. This, of course, was to make it more believable that the same bullet had exited from the President's throat and slanted on down through Governor Connally. Even if this bullet had entered where the Com- mission claims and then exited from the President's throat, it would have been possible for it to enter Governor Connal- ly's upper back at a downward angle, exit from his lower chest and lodge fi- nally in his thigh—fired, as the Commis- sion says it was, from the elevation of the sixth-floor window of the Book De- pository--only if Connally had been sitting in the President's lap or if the bullet had described two 90-degree turns on its way from President Kennedy's throat to Governor Connally's back. Clearly, the President's throat wound was caused by the first shot, this one from the grassy knoll in front of the limou- sine; and his back wound came from the rear. I've already given you my reason:, for reaching this conclusion. PLAYBOY: If the first bullet was fired from the front, why wasn't it found in the President's body, or somewhere in the Presidential limousine? GARRISON: The exact nature of the Presi- dent's wounds, as well as the disposition of the bullets or bullet fragments, are among the many concealed items in this case. I told you earlier about the mess on the grassy knoll whose sole function we believe was to catch the cartridges as they were ejected from the assassins' rifles. We also have reason to suspect that other members of the conspiracy may have been assigned the job of removing other evi- "Timmy has to tinkle." dence—such as traceable bullet fragments 166 —that might betray the assassins. In the chaos of November 22nd, this would not have been as difficult as it sounds. We know that a bullet, designated Exhibit number 399 by the Warren Commission, was planted on a stretcher in Parkland Medico 2/4" Hospital to incriminate Oswald. The Commission concluded that this bullet allegedly hit both Kennedy and Governor Connally, causing seven wounds and filters do it breaking three bones—and emerged with- out a dent! In subsequent ballistics tests with the same gun, every bullet was squashed completely out of shape from give pleasure and peace of mind impact with various simulated human targets. So, if the conspirators could fabri- cate a bullet, they could easily conceal MEDICO® one. But to return to the sequence of FILTER PIPES shots: Governor Connally was struck by a 66-baffle absorbent replaceable Medico Fil- third bullet—as he himself insisted, not ters trap juices, tars, nicotine — keep your the one that struck Kennedy in the back mouth cleaner, cooler. Change filter and your —also fired from the rear. A fourth shot pipe is clean. Selected, imported briar; nylon missed the Presidential limousine com- bits guaranteed bite-proof. pletely and struck the curb along the For beautiful color catalog, Write Medico, 18 E. 54th St., south side of Main Street, disintegrating N. Y. 10022, Dept. A-23. Please enclose 100 for handling. into fragments; the trajectory of this bullet has been plotted backward to a point of origin in the Dal-Tex Building. The fifth shot, which struck the President MEDICO CREST in the right temple, tore off the top of his *5 TO *20 skull and snapped him back into his seat —a point overlooked by the Warren Com- mission—had to have been fired from the Insist on MEDICO FILTERS Illustrated 10 for 100 GOLD CREST dark claret $8 grassy knoll. There is also medical evi- Also Menthol-Cool 10 for 150 ( light cold finish $9) dence indicating the likelihood that an additional head shot may have been fired. The report of Dr. Robert McClelland at Jet Stream $8.95 Parkland Hospital, for example, states that "the cause of death was due to mas- sive head and brain injury from a gun- Other Medico Filter Pipes shot wound of the left temple." And $2.50 up yet another shot may also have been Prete higher Needs U.S.A. fired; frames 208 to 211 of the Zapruder film, which were deleted from the War- MEDICO • World's Largest Selling Pipes ren Report—presumably as irrelevant— reveal signs of stress appearing suddenly on the back of a street sign momentarily stir her to romance obstructing the view between the grassy knoll and the President's car. These stress PLAYBOY COCKTAILS FOR TWO SET signs may very well have been caused by Perfect mixer for a perfect evening. Emblazoned the impact of a gray bullet on the sign. in 22k gold. 16-ounce glass mixer, stirrer and two cocktail glasses. We'll never be sure about this, however, Deluxe set includes walnut snack tray with knife because the day after the assassination, and tile for cheese cutting. the sign was removed and no one in Dal- Cocktails for Two Set, 15 las seems to know what became of it. Deluxe Set, $15 Some of the gunmen appear to have Both prices ppd. used frangible bullets, a variant of the dumdum bullet that is forbidden by Shall we enclose a gift card in your name? Send check or money order to: the Geneva Treaty. Frangible bullets ex- • PLAYIOY PRODUCTS plode on impact into tiny fragments, as • 919 N. Michigan Ave. Chicago, Illinois 60611 did the bullet that caused the fatal Playboy Club keyholders may wound in the President's head. Of charge by enclosing key no. course, frangible bullets are ideal in a political assassination, because they almost guarantee massive damage and assure that no tangible evidence will remain that ballistics experts could use to trace the murder weapon. I might also men- tion that frangible bullets cannot be fired from a Mannlicher-Carcano, such as the Commission concludes 167 • ,Oswald used to kill the President. Connally was hit—this is crystal clear - 0 Also parenthetically, this type of bullet origin of the shots; along with the major- from their own reactions—but it requires ity of the witnesses to the assassination, was issued by the CIA for use in anti- 2.3 seconds just to work the bolt on a • Castro-exile raids on Cuba. In summa- he said the shots came from the grassy Mannlicher-Carcano rifle. To escape this knoll, on which he was standing—from Pt there were at least five or six shots dilemma, the Commission produced the 01 fired at the President from front and behind the stone wall, which was only a magical bullet, Exhibit 399, which I few dozen feet from him, in the opposite rear by at least four gunmen, assisted by referred to earlier. Apart from the pris- • several accomplices, two of whom prob- direction from the Depository. Like the tine condition of 399, the whole time Warren Commission, CBS was scrupu- a ably picked up the cartridges and one of sequence was the weakest link in the whom created a diversion to draw people's lously selective in its choice of evidence. Commission's shaky chain of evidence, Its broadcast wasn't a hatchet job like eyes away from the grassy knoll. At this and CBS seems to have taken it upon its stage of events, Lee Harvey Oswald was the NBC show, but it was equally mis- shoulders to resolve the problem by in- leading and, however unintentionally, no more than a spectator to the assassina- venting a new time sequence. What they tion—perhaps in a very literal sense. As dishonest. I'm not imputing sinister mo- did was to have a photo analyst, Charles tives to CBS; it appears that its greatest the first shot rang out, Associated Press Wyckoff, examine the Zapruder film and photographer James Altgens snapped a handicap was its own ignorance of the find that certain frames were blurred. assassination. picture of the motorcade that shows a Wyckoff arbitrarily decided that these PLAYBOY: To return to your own inves- man with a remarkable resemblance to blurs were caused by Zapruder's physical Lee Harvey Oswald—same hairline, same tigation of the assassination: Have you reaction to the sound of shots ringing out discovered the identity of any of the face shape—standing in the doorway of —although by the same logic, Zapruder the Book Depository Building. Somehow conspirators you say were involved in the could just have sneezed. Now, the actual shooting? or other, the Warren Commission con- Warren Commission had concluded that cluded that this man was actually Billy GARRISON: I don't want to sound coy or Kennedy would not have been visible to evasive, but I'm afraid I can't comment Nolan Lovelady, an employee of the De- Oswald until Frame 210 of the Zapruder on that. All I can say is that this is an pository, who looked very little like film; until then, he was obscured by an Oswald. Furthermore, on the day of the ongoing case and there will be more oak tree—and was first hit in Frame 222 arrests. assassination, Oswald was wearing a white or 223. But Wyckoff detected a blur in T-shirt under a long-sleeved dark shirt PLAYBOY: Let's move on to the events the vicinity of Frame 186; and on the that followed the assassination. What opened halfway to his waist—the same basis of this, CBS speculated that Zapru- outfit worn by the man in the doorway— reason do you have for believing that der heard a shot at Frame 186—the first Oswald didn't shoot Officer Tippit? but Lovelady said that on November shot in CBS' revised time schedule— 22nd he was wearing a short-sleeved, red- GARRISON: As I said earlier, the evidence which Oswald allegedly fired at Kenne- we've uncovered leads us to suspect that and-white-striped sport shirt buttoned dy through the branches of the oak tree. near the neck. The Altgens photograph two men, neither of whom was Oswald, CBS even speculated that the bullet were the real murderers of Tippit; we indicates the very real possibility that at lodged in the trunk of the oak tree, and the moment Oswald was supposed to believe we have one of them identified. sent' a team of men with metal detectors The critics of the Warren Report have have been crouching in the sixth-floor scurrying up it, but to no avail; the window of the Depository shooting Ken- pointed out that a number of the commentator explained that maybe witnesses could not identify Oswald as nedy, he may actually have been standing someday more sophisticated detection outside the front door watching the the slayer, that several said the murderer devices would be developed and the bul- was short and squat—Oswald was thin Presidential motorcade. let would be found. Sure. This scenario, and medium height--and another said PLAYBOY: Between June 25th and 29th, of course, gave Oswald several extra sec- CBS telecast a series of four special onds in which to take careful aim and that two men were involved. The War- shows revealing the findings of the net- fire his subsequent shots—and thus let ren Commission's own chronology of work's own seven-month investigation the Commission off the hook. The only Oswald's movements also fails to allow of the assassination. CBS agreed with trouble here is that the people who con- him sufficient time to reach the scene the Warren Commission's conclusion that ducted the CBS study—like most defend- of Tippit's murder from the Book De- Oswald was the assassin, that he acted ers of the Warren Report—didn't do all pository Building. The clincher, as far alone and that only three shots were of their homework. They forgot, or as I'm concerned, is that four car- fired; but it theorized that the first shot chose to ignore, that by the Commis- tridges were found at the scene of the was fired earlier than the Warren Com- sion's own admission, the bullet that slaying. Now, revolvers do not eject car- mission believed, thus giving Oswald suf- missed Kennedy—the second bullet in tridges, so when someone is shot, you ficient time to fire three well-aimed shots the Commission's sequence—hit the don't later find gratuitous cartridges at the President with his Mannlicher- curb on Main Street near the railroad strewn over the sidewalk—unless the Carcano—and overcoming the implausi- underpass 100 yards ahead of the lim- murderer deliberately takes the trouble bility of the Commission's conclusion ousine, shattering into fragments and to eject them. We suspect that cartridges that he had scored two hits out of three causing superficial wounds on the face of had been previously obtained from Os- shots in only 5.6 seconds. Don't you con- a bystander, James Tague. But the tra- wald's .38 revolver and left at the mur- sider this a logical explanation of the jectory of any bullet fired from the sixth der site by the real killers as part of the discrepancies in the Commission's time floor of the Depository through the setup to incriminate Oswald. However, sequence? branches of the oak tree is such that it somebody slipped up there. Of the four GARRISON: I'm afraid it's neither logical could not conceivably hit within a city cartridges found at the scene, two were nor an explanation. In case your readers block of the underpass. So please excuse aren't familiar with all the ramifications Winthesters and two were Remingtons me if I'm not overwhelmed by the in- —but of the four bullets found in Officer of this question, the Commission's entire eluctable logic of CBS' presentation. And lone-assassin theory rests on the fact that Tippit's body, three were Winchesters just let me add a footnote here: CBS and one was a Remington! The last all three shots were fired, as you point made a great deal out of its assumption out, within a period of 5.6 seconds. Now, time I looked, the Remington-Peters that the blurs on Zapruder's film indi- Manufacturing Company was not in the the film taken of the assassination by cated a reflexive reaction to shots ring- Abraham Zapruder proves that a maxi- habit of slipping Winchester bullets ing out. But they never asked Zapruder into its cartridges, nor was the Win- mum of 1.8 seconds elapsed between the about his statement to Secret Service chester-Western Manufacturing Com- 168 time Kennedy was first hit and Governor agents after the assassination about the pany putting Remington bullets into its instance, a man went to an auto sales- room, gave his name as Lee Oswald, test-drove a car at 80 miles an hour— Oswald couldn't drive—and, after creat- ing an ineradicable impression on the salesman by his speeding, gratuitously remarked that he might go back to the Soviet Union and was expecting to come into a large sum of money. Parentheti- cally, the salesman who described this "second Oswald" was subsequently beaten almost to death by unknown assailants outside his showroom. He later fled Dal- las and last year was found dead; it was officially declared a suicide. In another instance, this "second Oswald" visited `a...sliooting..„ range in Dallas and gave a virtuoso demonstration of marksman- ship, hitting not only his own bull's-eye but the bull's-eyes of neighboring targets as well—thus leaving an unforgettable impression of his skill with a rifle. The real Oswald, of course, was a mediocre shot, and there is no evidence that he had fired a rifle since the clay he left the Marines. Consequently, the fact that he couldn't hit the side of a barn had to be offset, which accounts for the tableau at the rifle range. I could go on and on re- counting similar instances, but there is no doubt that there was indeed a "sec- ond Oswald." Now, the Warren Com- mission recognized that the individual involved in all these activities could not be Lee Oswald; but they never took the next step and inquired why these inci- dents of impersonation occurred so sys- "Here comes our analyst. A few more visits and tematically prior to the assassination. As we should have him straightened out." it turned out, of course, the organizers of the conspiracy needn't have bothered to go to all this trouble of laying a false sion concluded with a straight face that cartridges. I don't believe that Oswald trail incriminating Oswald. They should the bullets were fired not only from Os- shot anybody on November 22nd—not have realized, since Oswald was a "self- the President and not Tippit. If our in- wald's gun but "to the exclusion of all proclaimed Marxist," that it wasn't nec- other weapons." They simply chose to vestigation in this area proves fruitful, I essary to produce any additional evidence ignore the fact that revolvers don't eject hope we will be able to produce in a to convict him in the eyes of the mass cartridges and that the cartridges left so court of law the two men who did kill media; any other facts would simply be conveniently on the street didn't match Tippit. redundant in the face of such a convinc- the bullets in Tippit's body. ing confession of guilt. PLAYBOY: How do you explain the fact that PLAYBOY: You mentioned earlier that a PLAYBOY: You've given your reasons the Warren Commission concluded that so-called "second Oswald" had imper- for believing that Oswald, despite his the bullets in Officer Tippit's body had sonated the real Lee Harvey Oswald be- leftist "cover," was involved with the all been fired from "the revolver in the fore the assassination in an attempt to conspirators and with the CIA. Do you possession of Oswald at the time of his incriminate him. What proof do you have any evidence indicating that he FBI, as arrest, to the exclusion of all other have of this? was also connected with the weapons"? GARRISON: I hesitate to use the words some critics of the Warren Report have GARRISON: The Warren Commission's con- alleged? spite of the evidence "second Oswald," because they tend to clusion was made in lend an additional fictional quality to GARRISON: Let me preface my answer by and not because of it. To determine a case that already makes Dr. No and saying that I believe the FBI was not if Oswald's gun had fired the bullets, Goldfinger look like auditors' reports. given the full picture of Oswald's CIA it was necessary to call in a ballistics However, it is true that before the assas- involvement. I have nothing but respect expert who would be able to tell if the sination, a calculated effort was made to for the Bureau and feel that if it weren't lines and grooves on the bullets had a implicate Oswald in the events to come. for the FBI reports still available in the relation to the barrel of the revolver. The A young man approximating Oswald's Commission exhibits, the door would Commission called as its witness FBI description and using Oswald's name— have been dosed forever. While the CIA ballistics expert Cortlandt Cunningham, we believe we have discovered his iden- has behaved like a cross between the and he testified, after an examination of tity—engaged in a variety of activities Gestapo and the NKVD, the FBI has worked assiduously in many different the bullets taken from Tippit's body, that designed to create such a strong impres- areas and gathered facts that have proved it was impossible to determine whether sion of Oswald's instability and culpa- of great value to those interested in or not these bullets had been fired from bility in people's minds that they would recall him as a suspicious character after uncovering the truth about the assassina- Oswald's gun. Yet, on the basis of this tion. It isn't the FBI's fault that dozens 170 expert testimony, the Warren Commis- the President was murdered. In one of its .reports have been classified top describes a police interview with- Mrs. information on subversion and it's going secret in the Archives by order of certain Teofil Meller, a White Russian imigree to get what it needs not from Rhodes officials in the Department of Justice. in Dallas who had befriended Oswald and scholars and divinity students but from The trouble I face today is that, after Marina. Mrs. Meller revealed, according apparently marginal figures like Lee Os- four years, not only are these documents to the report, that "she saw the book wald with an entree into the political unavailable but the trail has grown cold Kapital, which was written by Karl underworld. in many areas. Ruby is dead. Ferrie is Marx, during one of these visits at Os- PLAYBOY: If you see nothing sinister in dead. Many other witnesses with valuable wald's house and became very worried the FBI's relationship with Oswald, why information have either been murdered about it. Subject [Mr. Meller] said he did you subpoena FBI agents Regis Ken- or fled the country. checked with the FBI and they told him nedy and Warren De Brueys to testify PLAYBOY: You still haven't answered the that Oswald was all right." So here you before the New Orleans Parish grand question: Was Oswald involved with the have this "self-proclaimed Marxist," who jury? FBI? had defected to the Soviet Union, tried GARRISON: Regis Kennedy is one of GARRISON: Well, I just wanted to phrase to renounce his American citizenship and the FBI agents who interrogated David my reply in such a manner that it was now allegedly active in pro-..Castro Ferrie in November 1963, and I hoped wouldn't be misconstrued as a broadside activities, being given a clean bill of to learn from him what information the against the entire FBI. Oswald may health by the FBI. It's quite possible that Bureau had elicited from Ferrie.. But on have been a petty informer for the Bu- this clean bill of health was originally the instructions of our old friend Attor- reau, receiving small sums of money in issued by the State Department, which, ney General Ramsey Clark, Kennedy return for information about left-wing in reply to an FBI request for informa- refused to answer the questions put to activities in the Dallas-New Orleans tion about Oswald's activities in Russia him by the grand jury on the grounds of area. But I must stress that there is no —this was shortly after his "defection"— executive privilege. Warren De Brueys is indication of any connection between assured the Bureau that he was a solid a former FBI agent based in New Orleans who also questioned Ferrie in 1963. Be- Oswald and the FBI with regard to the citizen. So I don't see anything sinister tween 1961 and 1963, De Brueys was assassination, and that his position with in all of this, at least as far as the FBI involved with anti-Castro exile activities the FBI was in no way analogous to is concerned. The Bureau has to obtain his position with the CIA; the FBI re- tains hundreds, perhaps thousands of such informants across the country and is no more responsible for their over-all pattern of political activity than the In- ternal Revenue Service is responsible for the behavior of its confidential inform- ants on tax-evasion matters. Oswald's possible ties to the Bureau are never mentioned in the Warren Report, but a member of the Commission, Congressman Gerald Ford, revealed in his otherwise undistinguished book, Portrait of an As- sassin, that the Commission was informed by Texas Attorney General Waggoner Can and Dallas D. A. Henry Wade that Oswald had been employed by the FBI as an informant since September of 1962; his salary, they revealed, was $200 a month and his FBI code number was 179. The Warren Commission acted promptly on this information from two responsible Texas officials: Chief Coun- sel Rankin told the members of the Commission that ':We have a dirty rumor that is very bad for the Commission . . . and it is very damaging to the agen- cies that are involved in it and it must be wiped out insofar as it is possible to do so by the Commission." The Commission then launched one of its typically thor- ough investigations: J. Edgar Hoover was asked if the alleged assassin of the President of the United States had been an employee of his; Mr. Hoover said "No"; and the Commission closed the case. If Congressman Ford hadn't devel- oped writer's itch, we would never even have heard of the incident. Once again, the Commission made an unwise choice between tranquility and truth. There is also other evidence linking Oswald to the FBI—though, again, not in any conspira- torial context. A Dallas police investi- gative report dated February 17, 1964, "Prop man!" 171 in New Orleans and was seen frequently afraid, in this case, we weren't as efficient 0 at meetings of the right-wing Cuban estingly enough, the DIA is the abbrevia- as two young girls who moved into Nov- tion for the Defense Intelligence Agency, Democratic Revolutionary Front. I'd like el's apartment a few weeks later and, to find out the exact nature of De Brueys' a top-secret group set up after the Bay ▪ during a thorough house cleaning, found of Pigs to supervise the CIA and en- Ils relationship with Lee Oswald. As long as a penciled rough draft of a letter under a sure increased Administration control of 01 Oswald was in New Orleans, so was De strip of linoleum on the kitchen-sink Brueys. When Oswald moved to Dallas, drainboard. One of the girls gave it to CIA activities—a task at which it has ▪ De Brueys followed him. After the assassi- her boyfriend, a student at Tulane Uni- proved spectacularly unsuccessful. s nation, De Brueys returned to New versity, and he in turn passed it on to PLAYBOY: Novel subsequently fled New Orleans. This may all be coincidence, one of his professors, who subsequently Orleans and took refuge in Ohio. but I find it interesting that De Brueys showed the letter to Hoke May, a report- Why were you unable to obtain his refuses to cooperate with our office— er for the New Orleans States-Item. May extradition? significant and frustrating, because I feel had the letter examined by an independ- GARRISON: The reason we were unable he could shed considerable light on Os- ent handwriting analyst, Gilbert Fortier, to obtain Novel's extradition from Ohio wald's ties to anti-Castro groups. who compared it with other samples of —the reason we are unable to extradite PLAYBOY: On March 23, 1967, you or- Novel's writing and determined that the anyone connected with this case—is that dered the arrest of Gordon Novel as a draft had been written by Novel—a fact there are powerful forces in Washing- material witness in the conspiracy to as- that was confirmed by Novel's attorney, ton who find it imperative to conceal sassinate President Kennedy, and you who said that "everything in the letter as from the American public the truth have subsequently sought his extradition far as Novel is concerned is actually the about the assassination. And as a re- from Ohio. What role do you believe truth." This letter makes fascinating sult, terrific pressure has been brought to Novel played in the alleged conspiracy? reading. It is addressed to a Mr. Weiss, bear on the governors of the states in- GARRISON: I can't go into all aspects of Novel's apparent superior in the CIA. volved to prevent them from signing the Novel's activities, because we have a live Novel tells Weiss: "I took the liberty of case against him. Novel worked closely extradition papers and returning the writing you direct and apprising you of defendants to stand trial. I'm sorry to say with David Ferrie and the anti-Castro current situation expecting you to for- that in every case, these Jell-o–spined Cuban exiles. In 1961, he raided a muni- ward this through appropriate channels. governors have caved in and "played the tions bunker in Houma, Louisiaril, with Our connection and activity of that pe- David Ferrie and a prominent anti-Castro riod involved individuals presently about game" Washington's way. To give them exile leader, and the weapons seized were to be indicted as conspirators in Mr. the benefit of the doubt, I suppose it's subsequently shipped by CIA agents to Garrison's investigation." Novel goes on also possible that they just didn't want the counterrevolutionary underground in to warn that my probe was in danger of to aid and abet an investigation that Cuba. He also worked for the Evergreen exposing his ties to the Double-Chek every official effort, overt and covert, has Advertising Agency in New Orleans, a Corporation in Miami, which the book been made to discredit as irresponsible CIA front that alerted anti-Castro agents The Invisible Government exposes as a and unfounded. Whatever his motivation, to the date of the Bay of Pigs invasion by CIA front that recruited pilots and sabo- Governor Rhodes of Ohio, to name one, placing coded messages in radio commer- teurs for the Bay of Pigs and subsequent has said that he would allow me to extra- cials for Christmas trees. Novel himself anti-Castro adventures. Novel writes in dite Novel to stand trial on charges aris- was a paid employee of the CIA. As I the letter: "Mr. Garrison . . . is unaware ing from the CIA-inspired burglary of mentioned earlier, Novel's own lawyer, of Double-Chek's involvement in this the ammunitions bunker in Houma, Stephen Plotkin, has admitted that his matter but has strong suspicions." He Louisiana—but that I would not be client is a CIA agent. On May 23, also adds that he lied to the FBI: "I have 1967, Plotkin was quoted in allowed under the stipulations of the the New been questioned extensively by local FBI extradition agreement to question him Orleans States-Item as saying that "his recently as to whether or not I was in- about the assassination! In other words, client served as an intermediary be- volved with Double-Chek's parent hold- tween the CIA and anti-Castro Cubans it's OK for me to send a man to jail on ing corporation. . . . My reply on -five in New Orleans and Miami prior to the queries was negative. Bureau unaware of a burglary rap, but I mustn't upset him April 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion." And Double-Chek association in this matter." by inquiring if he killed the President. that same day, the Associated Press, The letter indicates that Novel was grow- I'm all in favor of protecting a de- which has hardly served as my press agent ing edgy, because he complains: "We have fendant's civil rights, but this is straight in this case, reported: "When Novel first temporarily avoided one subpoena not to out of Alice in Wonderland. fled froth New Orleans, he headed reveal Double-Chek activities. . . . We PLAYBOY: The New Orleans States-Item straight for McLean, Virginia, which is want out of this thing before Thursday, of June 14, 1967, quoted Novel as say- the Central Intelligence Agency suburb. 3/—/67. Our attorneys have been told to This is not surprising, because Gordon ing that if he were granted immunity expect another subpoena to appear and from the assassination investigation, he Novel was a CIA employee in the early testify on this matter. The Fifth Amend- would be willing to testify on a number Sixties." There is no doubt that Gordon ment and/or immunity and legal tactics of points, including "international fraud, Novel was a CIA operative. will not suffice." In case the CIA decided PLAYBOY: If the CIA, as you charge, Novel was expendable, he seems to have mysterious intelligence activities from not only refuses to cooperate with you taken out a kind of insurance policy: November 1959 to date in the Southern but has actively obstructed your investi- "Our attorneys and others are in posses- quadrant of the U. S.A. and certain is- gation, how are you in a position to sion of complete sealed files containing lands off Florida, seditious treason, hot know about Novel's activities on behalf all information concerning this matter. war games and cold munitions transfers, of the Agency? In the event of our sudden departure, ten 1950-model Canadian surplus Vam- GARRISON: The people of Louisiana pay either accidental or otherwise, they are pire jet supporter fighter aircraft and my investigators to investigate. But in instructed to simultaneously release same certain Cuban-Anglo-French sabotage this specific instance, we've benefited for public scrutiny in different areas." affairs of early 1961." Why did you re- by sheer luck. After Novel fled the city Novel concludes his little billet-doux ject his offer? in March, my investigators and the city by urging the CIA to take "appropriate GARRISON: These are all intriguing aspects police both scoured his apartment for counteraction relative to Garrison's in- of Novel's career as a U. S. intelligence evidence, but Novel appeared to have quisition concerning us through military agent, and I'd love to hear about them covered his trail pretty effectively. 172 I'm channels, vis-à-vis the DIA man." Inter- —especially his knowledge of seditious in Dallas in 1961 with her husband,. Robert Perrin, a gun runner and one- 0 time narcotics smuggler and, through police intervention, secured a job as a bartender at Ruby's Carousel Club. She quit soon after and didn't see Ruby again until one night when she and her hus- a band, as she tells it, attended a confer- ence of anti-Castro exiles presided over by a lieutenant colonel—an Army colonel, she thought. She testified that Robert Per- rin was offered 110,000 if he would run guns to the underground in Cuba, and she haggled the sum up to $25,000. When Perrin demanded a cash retainer, a phone call was made and, shortly after, Mrs. Rich recounts, "I had the shock of my life. . . . A knock comes on the door and who walks in but my little friend Jack Ruby. ... You could have knocked me over with a feather . . . and every- body looks like . . . here comes the Savior." Ruby was the CIA bag man- or paymaster—for the operation, and he left immediately after handing over a large sum in cash to the colonel. Mrs. Rich and her husband subsequently bowed out of the gun-smuggling deal, because, in her words, "I smelled an element that I did not want to have any part of." Afraid of retaliation, she and Perrin fled from Dallas and hid out in several different cities, winding up finally in New Orleans. A year later, he was found dead of arsenic poisoning. Though "They just don't make two-way mirrors like they used to." it would be difficult to pick a slower and more excruciating way to kill yourself, it was officially declared a suicide. There are too many other instances of Ruby's anti- treason—but that isn't the subject of my I have solid evidence indicating that Castro activity to go into here. Ruby investigation. Ruby, Ferrie, Oswald and others involved appears to have been the CIA's bag man PLAYBOY: Let's move on from Gordon in this case were all paid by the CIA to for a wide variety of anti-Castro adven- Novel to Jack Ruby, who you claim perform certain functions: Ruby to smug- tures. In this connection, let me point out murdered Oswald to "silence" him. Do gle arms for Cuban exile groups, Ferrie to that one of the documents classified top you have any evidence that Ruby and train them and to fly counterrevolution- secret in the Archives is a CIA file entitled Oswald knew each other? ary secret missions to Cuba, and Oswald "The Activities of Jack Ruby." Perhaps GARRISON: Though Ruby and the Warren to establish himself so convincingly as a this will become a Book-of-the-Month Report denied it vehemently, there is Marxist that he would win the trust of Club selection in September 2038. American left-wing groups and also have simply no question about it. We didn't PLAYBOY: Even if Ruby was associated even have to do a great deal of investiga- freedom to travel as a spy in Communist with certain Cuban exile groups, as you tive digging; connections popped up countries, particularly Cuba. But I have claim, couldn't all of this be totally un- everywhere we scratched the surface. reason to believe that none of them related to the assassination? was a salaried agent operating under PLAYBOY: What evidence do you have GARRISON: It could be, but it isn't. As a direct chain of command. In this to support your charge that Ruby was a result of our investigation, I can say, particular case—though, as with the oth- involved in anti-Castro exile activities with the same certitude that I can say ers involved, it seems to have been unre- with Oswald and Ferrie? the sun will rise in the east tomorrow lated to his CIA work—Ruby was up to GARRISON: We have evidence linking morning, that Jack Ruby was involved his neck with the plotters. Our investiga- Ruby not only to anti-Castro exile activi- in the conspiracy to kill John Kennedy. ties but, as with almost everyone else tors have broken a code Oswald used and found Ruby's private unlisted telephone Much of the evidence we've uncovered involved in this case, to the CIA itself. about Ruby's involvement relates to our Never forget that the CIA maintains a number, as of 1963, written in Oswald's court case against Clay Shaw, so the great variety of curious alliances it feels notebook. The same coded number was canon of legal ethics prevents me from serve its purposes. It may be hard to found in the address book of another broadcasting it before trial. But I will imagine Ruby in a trench coat, but he prominent figure in this case. We have seems to have been as good an employee further evidence linking Ruby to the give you one bit of evidence, recently of the CIA as he was a pimp for the conspiracy, but it involves testimony to uncovered by our office, that links Ruby Dallas cops. Just let me add parentheti- be given in court in the future, so I can't to the conspiracy. Four days before the cally that I stress the word "employee" reveal it here. On the broader point of assassination, on November 18th, 1963, a here as opposed to "agent." The CIA Ruby's involvement with anti-Castro exile young woman from Dallas named Rose employs many people in many different activity, there can be no doubt what- Cheramie was thrown from a moving car capacities, sometimes just on a retainer soever. Let me refer you here to the tes- on a highway outside Eunice, Louisiana. basis, and these individuals do not fall timony of Nancy Perrin Rich before the She was badly bruised and taken to the 174 under the over-all authority of the CIA. Warren Commission. This lady arrived East Louisiana Hospital in Jackson, Loui- &lama. When she came out of sedation, no doubt in Ruby's mind that he would forced over a year later to beg Earl War- on November 19th, she was distraught be arrested, he could very well have en- ren to take him back to Washington, be- and sobbed that she had been thrown tertained hopes of escaping conviction. cause he wanted to tell the truth about out of the car by associates of a man You've got to remember the atmosphere "why my act was committed, but it can't named Jack Ruby in Dallas. She claimed in Dallas and across the country at that be said here . . . my life is in danger to have been sent by Ruby from Dallas time; when word was flashed to the crowd here." But Ruby never got to Washing- to Miami to pick up a shipment of outside the jail that Oswald had been ton, and he's joined the long list of wit- narcotics. When asked by a hospital shot, they burst into wild applause. nesses with vital information who have attendant—who fortunately took notes of Ruby's lawyer, Tom Howard, spoke for a shuffled off this mortal coil. sizable segment of public opinion when her remarks, in case the police had to be PLAYBOY: Penn Jones, Norman Mailer he said, "I think Ruby deserves a Con- called in—why she had been hurled and others have charged that Ruby was gressional Medal," and the largest- from the car, she replied that narcotics injected with live cancer cells in order to circulation newspaper in the country, the smuggling was one thing, but she drew silence him. Do you agree? the line at murder. The President, she New York Daily News, editorialized after I can't agree or disagree, since said, was going to be killed in Dallas Oswald's death that "the only good GARRISON: within a few days. At this point, sadly murderer is a dead murderer and the I have no evidence one way or the other. enough, the hospital authorities seemed to only good Communist a dead Commu- But we have discovered that David dismiss her as hysterical and lost interest nist." In the two days between his arrest Ferrie had a rather curious hobby in addi- in her story, although she repeated it in and his liquidation, Oswald had been tion to his study of cartridge trajectories: detail the next day. After the assassina- convicted by the mass media as the Presi- cancer research. He filled his apartment tion, of course, people in the hospital be- dent's assassin and as a Communist, and with white mice—at one point he had came interested once more, but she had Ruby may well have felt that he would almost 2000, and neighbors complained— already checked out, leaving no forward- be acquitted for murdering such a uni- wrote a medical treatise on the subject ing address other than Dallas, Texas. versally despised figure. It turned out, of and worked with a number of New Or- There the story stood until a few months course, that he was wrong, and he be- leans doctors on means of inducing ago, when we began searching for Miss came a prisoner of the Dallas police, cancer in mice. After the assassination, Cheramie, but it was too late. After the assassination, she was killed by a hit-and- run driver on a highway outside Dallas. PLAYBOY: If Jack Ruby was really the sinister and cunning figure you paint him, why would he kill Oswald in the Dallas city jail, where his own appre- hension and conviction for murder were inevitable? Wasn't this more logically the act of a temporarily deranged man? GARRISON: -First of all, let me dispose of this concept of the "temporarily de- ranged man." This is a catchall term, employed whenever the real motive of a crime can't be nailed down. In the over- whelming majority of instances, the ac- tions of human beings are the direct consequences of discernible motives. This is the fatal flaw of the Warren Report —its condusion that the assassination of President Kennedy was the act of a tem- porarily deranged man, that the murder of Officer Tippit was equally meaningless and, finally, that Jack Ruby's murder of Oswald was another act of a temporarily deranged individual. It is, of course, wildly improbable that all three acts were coincidentally the aberrant acts of tem- porarily deranged men—although it's most convenient to view them as such, because that judgment obviates the ne- cessity of relentlessly investigating the possibility of a conspiracy. In Jack Ruby's case, his murder of Lee Oswald was the sanest act he ever committed; if Oswald had lived another day or so, he very probably would have named names, and Jack Ruby would have been convicted as a conspirator in the assas- sination plot. As it was, Ruby made the best of a bad situation by rubbing out Oswald in the Dallas city jail, since this act could be construed as an argument "Stone walls do not a prison make, but throw in that he was "temporarily deranged." But I differ with the assumption of your ques- armed guards and a general lack tion, because, while there could have been of amenities, and you've got something." 175 l• one of these physicians, Dr. Mary Sher- in the Archives. Then we'll all have a hemorrhage. Have you subsequently re- "O man, was found hacked to death with a chance to see for ourselves how dear solved the discrepancy in your points of kitchen knife in her New Orleans apart- it is that Ferrie wasn't involved. Every view? ment. Her murder is listed as unsolved. scrap of evidence we've uncovered—and GARRISON: Dr. Nicholas Chum is an ' Ferrie's experiments may have been pure- it hasn't been difficult to find—reveals excellent coroner, and inasmuch as he ly theoretical and Dr. Sherman's death not only the fact of his involvement but found a total absence of traceable poi- completely unrelated to her association the reasons for it. His politics were ultra- sons or barbiturates in Ferrie's system, I with Ferrie; but I do find it interesting right wing, as I indicated earlier, but would respect his opinion that it was a that Jack Ruby died of cancer a few we've been able to determine conclu- natural death. On the other hand, I can't weeks after his conviction for murder sively that his motivation was closer to help but lend a certain weight to two had been overruled in appeals court and that of the Cuban exiles on the "op- suicide notes Ferrie left in his apartment, Ise was ordered to stand trial outside of erative" level—a burning hatred of Dallas—thus allowing him to speak Fidel Castro. When Castro was a guerrilla one of which said how sweet it was to freely if he so desired. I would also note in the Sierra Maestra, Ferrie is reliably finally leave this wretched life. I suppose that there was little hesitancy in killing reported to have piloted guns for him. it could just be a weird coincidence that Lee Harvey Oswald in order to prevent But in 1959, when Castro started to the night Ferrie penned two suicide him from talking, so there is no reason to show his Marxist colors, Ferrie appears notes, he died of natural causes. suspect that any more consideration to have felt betrayed and reacted PLAYBOY: Your critics have charged that would have been shown Jack Ruby if he against Castro with all the bitterness of a your relentless investigation of Ferrie had posed a threat to the architects of suitor jilted by his girl. From that mo- and the publicity the press gave to your the conspiracy. ment on, he dedicated himself to Castro's charges against him induced the state PLAYBOY: You've claimed that many of overthrow and began working with of hypertension that was said to have the people involved in the conspiracy exile groups such as the Cuban Demo- caused his fatal hemorrhage. Do you feel were "neo-Nazi" in their political orien- cratic Revolutionary Front and planning in any way responsible for Ferrie's death? tation. What would motivate Ruby, a airborne missions against Castro's military GARRISON: I had nothing but pity for Jew, to work with such people? installations. He was reported to have Dave Ferrie while he was alive, and I GARRISON: Money. As far as my office been paid up to $1500 a mission by an have nothing but pity for him now that has been able to determine, Jack Ruby ex–Batista official named Eladio del he's dead. Ferrie was a pathetic and tor- had no strong political views of his own. Valle. But I haven't been able to check tured creature, a genuinely brilliant man Historically, of course, there have been a out Del Valle's involvement with Ferrie, whose twisted drives locked him into his number of self-hating Jews who abetted because on February 22, 1967, the same their own tormentors: Adolf Hitler's own private hell. If I had been able to day Ferrie died in New Orleans, Del help Ferrie, I would have; but he was mentor in Vienna, Karl Lueger, was born Valle's head was split open by a hatchet in too deep and he was terrified. From a Jew, and I understand that one of the and he was shot through the heart in Mi- leading pro-Nazis in New York City, a ami. His murder is listed as unsolved by the moment he realized we had looked retired millionaire who finances anti- the Miami police. In any case, Ferrie was behind the facade and established that Jewish activity across the country, is the recruited by the CIA, which employed Lee Oswald was anything but a Commu- son of a rabbi. But I don't believe Jack hundreds of such people in their network nist, from the moment he knew we had Ruby falls into this category; he was just of anti-Castro exile activities. From the discovered the role of the CIA and anti- a hoodlum out for a buck. I will say— Bay of Pigs on, he hated Kennedy as much Castro adventurers in the assassination, with the understanding that it's pure as he did Castro; he felt that J. F. K. Ferrie began to crumble psychologically. speculation—it's not impossible that Jack had betrayed the invasion brigade by not So, to answer your question directly—yes, Ruby developed certain guilt feelings in sending in air cover. As the events I I suppose I may have been responsible for . prison over his role in the plot. Remem- described earlier led to a détente between Ferrie's death. If I had left this case ber his repeated lament, "Now there will Russia and America, and as the El:W- alone, if I had allowed Kennedy's mur- be pogroms. They will kill all the Jews."? under Kennedy's orders—started crack- derers to continue to walk the streets of Most people assumed this was just the ing down on the CIA-supported anti- America unimpeded, Dave Ferrie would fantasy of a crumbling mind. But maybe Castro underground, Ferrie's hatred for probably be alive today. I don't feel per- Jack Ruby knew better than the rest of Kennedy grew more and more obsessive. sonally guilty about Ferrie's death, but I us what the master-racist authors of the Let me add here that this isn't just specu- do feel terribly sorry for the waste of an- assassination had in mind for the country. lation on my part; we have a number other human being. In a deeper sense, PLAYBOY: Let's move on from Jack Ruby of reliable witnesses who were privy to though, Dave Ferrie died on November to David Ferrie. Wesley Liebeler, the Ferrie's thoughts at this period and saw 22, 1963. From that moment on, he Warren Commission counsel who handled his hatred of Kennedy develop into a couldn't save himself, and I couldn't the New Orleans end of the inquiry, said driving force. After the assassination, as save him. Ferrie could have quoted as Ferrie "was picked up shortly after the a matter of fact, something psychologi- his epitaph the last words of the Serb assassination and questioned by local cally curious happened to Ferrie: He partisan leader Draja Mikhailovitch be- officials of the FBI. I remember spe- dropped out of anti-Castro exile activi- fore Tito shot him for collaboration: "I cifically doing up a substantial stack of ties, left the pay of the CIA and drifted was swept up in the gales of history." FBI reports on Ferrie that we reviewed aimlessly while his emotional problems PLAYBOY: Many of the professional critics in order to make our determination." He increased to the point where he was of the Warren Commission appear to be states that the FBI reports on Ferrie were totally dependent on huge doses of tran- prompted by political motives: Those on not included in the Commission's 26 quilizers and barbiturates. I don't know the left are anxious to prove Kennedy volumes of evidence, "because it was so if Ferrie ever experienced any guilt was murdered by a conspiracy within the clear he wasn't involved." Why do you about the assassination itself; but in his establishment; and those on use right are refuse to accept this explanation? last months, he was a tortured man. eager to prove the assassination was an GARRISON: I think it's a lovely explana- PLAYBOY: After Ferrie's death, you called act of "the international Communist con- tion. Now perhaps Mr. Liebeler will in- it "an apparent suicide," but the coroner spiracy." Where would you place your- tercede with the Department of Justice announced that the autopsy showed death self on the political spectrum—right, to release 25 pages of the FBI report on was due to a ruptured blood vessel at the left or center? 176 Ferrie that have been classified top secret base of the brain, which caused a fatal GARRISON: That's a question I've asked myself frequently, especially since this is my profession, I've always wondered now dominates every aspect of our bit. about the judges throughout Germany The power of the states and Congress O investigation started and I found myself in an incongruous and disillusioning who sentenced men to jail for picking has gradually been abandoned to the battle with agencies of my own Govern- pockets at a time when their own govern- Executive Department, because of war ment. I can't just sit down and add up ment was jerking gold from the teeth conditions; and we've seen the creation a my political beliefs like a mathematical of men murdered in gas chambers. I'm of an arrogant, swollen bureaucratic sum, but I think, in balance, I'd turn up concerned about all of this because it complex totally unfettered by the checks somewhere around the middle. Over the isn't a German phenomenon; it's a hu- and balances of the Constitution. In a years, I guess I've developed a somewhat man phenomenon. It can happen here, very real and terrifying sense, our Gov- conservative attitude—in the traditional because there has been no change and ernment is the CIA and the Pentagon, libertarian sense of conservatism, as op- there has been no progress and there with Congress reduced to a debating posed to the thumbscrew-and-rack con- has been no increase of understanding society. Of course, you can't spot this servatism of the paramilitary right— on the part of men for their fellow man. trend to fascism by casually looking particularly in regard to the importance What worries me deeply, and I have seen around. You can't look for such familiar of the individual as opposed to the state it exemplified in this case, is that we in signs as the swastika, because they won't and the individual's own responsibilities America are in great danger of slowly be there. We won't build Dachaus and to humanity. I don't think I've ever tried evolving into a proto-fascist state. It will Auschwitzes; the dever manipulation of to formulate this into a coherent political be a different kind of fascist state from the mass media is creating a concentra- philosophy, but at the root of my con- the one the Germans evolved; theirs tion camp of the mind that promises to cern is the conviction that a human grew out of depression and promised be far more effective in keeping the popu- being is not a digit; he's not a digit in bread and work, while ours, curiously lace in line. We're not going to wake up regard to the state and he's not a digit enough, seems to be emerging from one morning and suddenly find ourselves in the sense that he can ignore his fellow prosperity. But in the final analysis, it's in gray uniforms goose-stepping off to men and his obligations to society. I was based on power and on the inability to work. But this isn't the test. The test with the artillery supporting the division put human goals and human conscience is: What happens to the individual who that took Dachau; I arrived there the above the dictates of the state. Its origins dissents? In Nazi Germany, he was day after it was taken, when bulldozers can be traced in the tremendous war physically destroyed; here, the process were making pyramids of human bodies machine we've built since 1945, the is more subtle, but the end results can outside the camp. What I saw there has "military-industrial complex" that Eisen- be the same. I've learned enough about haunted me ever since. Because the law hower vainly warned us about, which the machinations of the CIA in the past year to know that this is no longer the dreamworld America I once believed in. The imperatives of the population explosion, which almost inevitably will lessen our belief in the sanctity of the individual human life, combined with the awesome power of the CIA and the defense establishment, seem destined to seal the fate of the America I knew as a child and bring us into a new Orwel- lian world where the citizen exists for the state and where raw power justifies any and every immoral act. I've always had a kind of knee-jerk trust in my Govern- ment's basic integrity, whatever political blunders it may make. But I've come to realize that in Washington, deceiving and manipulating the public are viewed by some as the natural prerogatives of office. Huey Long once said, "Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism." I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security. PLAYBOY: Considering all the criticism that has come your way, would you still launch your investigation into the assas- sination if you had it to do over again? GARRISON: As long as the men who shot John Kennedy to death in Dallas are walking the streets of America, I will continue this investigation. I have no re- grets about initiating it and I have no regrets about carrying it on to its con- clusion. If it takes me 30 years to nail every one of the assassins, then I will continue this investigation for 30 years. I owe that not only to Jack Kennedy but to my country. 178 ". , . What time do you go on duty, Lily?"