[un]phased Podcast Episode 32: In Sport

Release date: April 20, 2021

Speakers: Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold, Dr. Lisa Ingarfield

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 00:00 So Lisa, a couple podcasts ago we talked about the bad tea party, and having to really manage everything that's coming up and around the corner when it comes to DEI work, whether it's Jetta language, or whether it's trans women, or trans individuals. There's so much that we're on the cutting edge of, and we're trying to be proactive and be visionary, so we don't get caught unprepared for particular groups of folks. And so one of those topics that we brought up was specifically around multi- generational participation in endurance sport and how we can't just assume that a certain age, certain body type, or person at a certain point in their lives is participating in endurance sport, we have to think more broadly about that.

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield 00:47 Yeah, and I think, if I do the math right, we're probably looking at at least five generations of folks who are competing in endurance sport and potentially a little bit of a sixth, some young people who are just coming of age where they might be participating in team sports or endurance sport. So that's a lot of personality types and behaviors to consider when we think about how are we being responsive.

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 01:13 Absolutely, so let's dive into multi-generational sport.

**intro music**

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold: I’m Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold, and I go by she/her/her pronouns.

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield: And I’m Dr. Lisa Ingarfield, and I go by she/her/hers.

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold: Welcome to [un]phased, a podcast to disrupt your normal and challenge your brain to go the distance.

**intro music**

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 01:30 So, Lisa, we went back and did a little bit of homework, and we're still trying to sort out who's saying what because frankly, when it comes to generations and the years of birth, it gets really interesting. Depending on what sociologists you talk to, what psychologists you talk to, the years will land

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differently. So, for example, I was born in 1978. So for some, I'm in the middle of the pack of Gen X, whereas for other sociologists, I'm kind of on the cusp, and kind of flirting with Gen Y. And so given that it does depend on who you ask, but we've done a little bit of our research, and it's very clear that we really need to talk about all the generations that are participating in endurance sport, because it's a lot of them.

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield 02:33 Yeah, and it's interesting, I'm just looking at these charts that we will include in the show notes, or at least links to them. And I've never actually seen X end before 1982. And on one of these, it's showing 79 as the last year, so that would put you right there as a cusper. And, so I'm 76. So I'm, I'm, I'm on the backside of , but I always fall into it. And I think that you're right, that this is something I don't think we give a lot of consideration to in terms of how are we structuring endurance sports, marketing endurance sports, thinking about products that would be useful in endurance sports, and how that might be affected by this massive generational distribution that we're seeing. You know, we have people in their late 80s and 90s competing, and then we also have people in their early teens. Like, they are not the same person.

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 03:37 Not at all, not at all, physically, psychologically, professionally, personally, they're just not the same person. And you know, I jokingly say all the time that, you know, maybe one day I'll get to go to Kona, but it will probably be much later on when I'm in an older age group, I can hopefully make the cut off. But also by that point, I'll have hopefully more dollars in the bank where I can afford to go to Kona, or I can afford to do the training I want to do, or I can afford the $10,000 bike if that's just something I want to do as a feather in my cap. But we all have these different, both perspectives, but also we're are different places in our personal development that makes things a little bit different. And I think we make a really grave mistake as coaches, trainers, event planners, like you mentioned, that aren't considering these, because, you know, when I googled a little bit around and did a little bit of homework, you know, originally the world's oldest Ironman was a Japanese gentleman at the age of 85. And so you know, what happens when you, for example, run out of age groups at your race because you didn't consider that someone would show up that would be outside of that age group. I can understand the younger end of things because obviously there's some liability there with children and minors, but when we're talking about on the older end of that spectrum, you know, I just started thinking about him and Sister Madonna who is now 91, born in 1930. So what would she be Lisa? Would she be in the ? Yeah, she'd be in the silent generation, and is an Ironman finisher as well, oldest female to finish at 79 years of age. And the funny story about her is that they actually did have to add new age brackets to accommodate her as she gets older. And I pray that she stays strong and continues to compete. But as she continues, hopefully, they will be adding more age groups. So what does that mean overall for the sport and to already anticipate that rather than, as usual, being reactionary when it comes to DEI work? So I think Sister Madonna is bringing up a great point around this.

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield 05:51 You know, it's interesting, you made me think when you're talking about this, I wonder how this does break down by gender? Like, I wonder if races are making an assumption based on gender stereotypes

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around strength and speed that are associated with men and masculinity versus strength and speed that's associated with women and femininity, and whether older age groups are considered or applied for men, and for women they're only added if a person registers in those older age groups. Like I don't know, I'm speculating here because I don't know enough about it to know whether that happens. But that wouldn't surprise me, if that happened in terms of who races or event managers are assuming who will participate at older age groups.

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 06:42 Absolutely, if someone knows how that works, or if you're an event manager or event planner that has done this, as far as setting the age groups, and so forth, drop us an email, and just let us know, I would love to know, I'm now curious about it Lisa now that you brought it up. But it brings up a great point of you know, are we proactive, are we reactive based on gender, based on lots of different stereotypes that you're on it that would hold true, possibly even in sister Madonna's case, too. I wonder if we should kind of skim over the particular groups, as well as some of the characteristics of those groups, because I'm learning as well. Obviously, I knew about several different groups, at least I knew about my parents who fall very firmly in the baby boomer category. And I'm also pretty familiar with , or the iGeneration, because that's my oldest son, Trey, who's, who turned ten this past year. And so I think there's some specifics around this that we probably need to address. The oldest generation I think that is now participating in endurance sport, if we go off of Sister Madonna's perspective, would be the . And that's the generation that's born between 1910 and 1924. So they are on the younger end, about 96 years of age. And so those folks, you know, I'm always wondering, you know, what brings them to the sport, maybe they've been in the sport for years, maybe it's something that they do in their retirement or in their free time, maybe it's a way to travel even. But that particular group, obviously, they're doing it for the love of it, it sounds like. They're doing it because they love the sport. And they may not be as competitive, not in the stereotypical form, but as in competing with others, but more so competing with themselves and continuing to push the limits. But that seems to be system Madonna's particular generation.

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield 08:43 She would actually be a little younger than that, I think, which is silent.

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 08:48 Let's see. Oh, so silent would be 1925 to 1945. So she just turned What? 91? Yeah. Okay. Yes. So she, you're right. So she's at the upper end of the silent generation. And folks in the silent generation, now this is really interesting because they have been characterized in two different ways. They've been named the silent generation, but also named veterans, veterans. So they have respect for authority, they do conform, and they are their core values center around discipline. So I'm wondering if they brought up veterans as an age or veterans as in a sideswipe of military? I don't know if they named it that way. Yeah. And so for them, you know, a lot of their communication style was even originated with one on one communication, you write things down, you know, even back then kind of a rotary phone phone type perspective. And so they have a particular unique perspective that's a tad older than the boomer generation that I'm a little more familiar with due to my parents. I'm wondering if we have folks in the silent generation, that sister Madonna generation, what would they be interested in or what could we do to make them feel more welcome in endurance sport? Of course, definitely having

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their age group already available would be a starting point, um, for participation. But I'm trying to think through any other things that they might want when it comes to endurance sport.

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield 10:25 I wonder whether or not, you know, online registration systems make a lot of sense for folks who don't have a lot of experience. I mean, I know that's come up with vaccinations of late where all these systems to register have been online, and in so doing, you're kind of like excluding a good number of people who really need the vaccine but aren't able to, don't have access to, aren't interested in engaging in an online forum, right. They want to make a phone call or mail something in. And I think a lot of races do allow still mail in registrations, but I'm not sure how popular that is. And so, you know, checks, writing checks, and mail and mailing it in, I wonder if that's something that would make race entry more accessible to folks who are falling into that older generation into that veterans or Silent Generation group? Again, you know, I don't know. My dad actually falls into the, hang on, my dad falls into the silent generation actually, he's not a boomer, he was born before that. So maybe, not that he competes in endurance sport, he's a walker, but I may ask him about that because he does struggle with the internet. So it's something to think about that I hadn't actually considered until looking at this information here and us having that conversation. Hmm.

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 11:51 Well, you know, I'm wondering, too, I know, we're kind of sliding from the silent generation into the baby boomer generation, I would love to see some deep dive demographics on how many of them compete with their adult children or adult grandchildren, or just adult family members. I'm thinking about one of my Fast Chicks teammates who, she competed with with me at Atlantic City couple years ago, and her uncle, who would definitely fall in the boomer generation, he actually participated in a relay and did it for the very first time and loved it. He loves riding bikes, but he had never done it in an event setting. And that was his first time. And so I'm just thinking about that relationship of, you know, oh, well, yeah, I'll go do a sprint with my daughter, or I'll go do you know, an Olympic with my son, or I've seen those really great stories that, that might be a little bit of inspiration porn into that, Lisa, about older folks that have they've competed alongside a child and adult child or a grandchild, what have you and they're the ones doing the registration, and they're the ones getting them prepared. And, you know, so I wonder how much of that family piece of things come in, because it is fantastic. I mean, I cannot wait to be, you know, in one of those older generations, older age groups, and and Trey and Kendrick are registering all three of us to do something, that would be fantastic. But I'm just wondering how much of that already happens to kind of help with some of the logistical pieces? And in that way, then you'd have a family tradition going to? I don't know.

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield 13:31 Yeah, I wonder whether family discounts might be something that would encourage older generations to participate. You know, like, if you and not necessarily a child, because not everyone has children, but like, you know, three of you that are related in some way right and you get a 10 or 15% discount on the registration and compete in the relay together, or you compete, you know, on the course together, you know, but separately. I think that might be an interesting way to increase participation from older generations. And you mentioned inspiration porn. And I think that's an important thing to kind of caveat here is that in the same way that we see athletes with disabilities elevated, you know, kind of

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like, isn't this amazing? Look at what they did. The subtext being, if they can do it, so can you able bodied person. I think that does exist for older adults, right? With Sister Madonna and other people in that age group. Well, if they can do it, then surely I can do it as a 40 something person. This implicit assumption that once you reach a certain age, particularly for women, you know, you're put on the shelf and you don't have anything to offer anymore, and certainly you're not going to be competitive at any kind of endurance sports. So when you know the unicorn participates, which they're not actually unicorns right, but I think that's how it's framed, that's where it becomes this like, oh my gosh, how amazing, let's take a photo and plaster that across social media. Yeah, I do think that that happens probably for folks who are 60 and older maybe.

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 15:05 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Well, and then, you know, let's think about this because now we're kind of sliding into, from into Gen X. And baby boomers are somewhere in that 1940s, 1940s to 1960s category. So you'd have folks from 56 to 74 in that area. Boomers are usually, they come from an idealistic perspective, even a collectivist perspective. And that Lisa really made me think hard about what are the approaches to training and racing when it comes to individual perspectives versus collective perspectives. So the baby boomer, regardless of speed, for example, may not care too much about the time, they may care about the socialization, and being around other people, and being around folks with a similar goal, and that might be the priority over time and speed. And, you know, in my first in my age group type of thing. So, you know, they may race for completely different reasons than other other generations that we'll talk about later. You know, I, I just can't imagine that a baby boomer would necessarily race for the exact same reasons as Gen X or Gen Y-er.

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield 16:25 Yeah, that's a really great point, because Gen X is the forgotten generation also, right, the latchkey kids. And they're also theorized as being both individualistic and pretty competitive. So, you know, that's folks from like, mid 60s to late 70s, early 80s. I think generally, it varies, as Shaunna had said. But so therefore right, so then you have a family, where you have, perhaps you have Gen X parents, baby boomer grandparents, and then Gen Y, or Gen Z kids, and they're all motivated by different things. That's kind of an interesting dynamic in terms of as an event or as a product or, you know, as a training group, like how do you market and create enjoyment and opportunity for all those different levels of motivation?

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 17:24 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, that coming from all those different perspectives, and, you know, as we slide into Gen X, now, that's my generation y'all. So I turned 43 this year, and the Gen X generation, the forgotten folks here, we do things quite differently. I think we should have prefaced our entire conversation, Lisa, by saying that each subsequent, younger, newer generation is usually vilified as they formulate, but then as they age they are more and more accepted. So let me just point that out, I should have said that at the top of our time together, but, you know, as a generation X-er, you know, in many ways we were vilified in lots of ways around, you know, thinking very individualistically and competitively, and even focusing on material things, for example. And, you know, I'm, I'm going to be a little bit hypocritical here that I hear a lot of people that say, you know, well, who we are, is based on who raised us, and I'm thinking, Oh, that kind of feels like product of

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environment type language, where there's lots of different products of the very same environment. And so, you know, are you choosing to be materialistic or not, are you choosing to be competitive or not, are you choosing to be individualistic or not? You know, I do think that's a choice. But when it comes to my generation, I do think that, you know, of course I'm always going to be a fan of my generation, but we are the ones that like the really nice tri bikes, okay, I will be the first to admit it. Okay, if I had 10 grand just laying around collecting dust, I would have no problem dropping the 10 grand for a really sexy fast bike, I would have no problem with that. Whereas other people might race for very different reasons. Like I have remembered many times in races where I remembered the bike more than I remembered the human being riding the bike, because the bike was just that smooth. But now that doesn't mean that I don't care about triathlon foundations and youth in endurance sport or any of that, that just means that oh, I kind of like that, that's a shiny toy that I really like. And so I'm just wondering how many of my fellow Gen Gen X-ers still feel that way, but we're kind of perceived as materialistic, competitive and individualistic, all about us, I will mow you down for that extra second that I saved for the race type perspective.

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield 19:53 Yeah, and I think that that is a product in some part of growing up in the 1980s and early 90s. Right. Particularly in the United States context, and to some extent in the UK too because of the Thatcher Reagan years. But you know, that pendulum politically and culturally really swung to individualistic, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, if it's not working for you then it's something that you are doing wrong, the government is not going to fund anything for you because you're just lazy, right? So certainly, you know, bell curve, right, not everyone falls into this, but I can't believe that Generation X wasn't affected by that. And then kind of this latchkey kid piece, right, where often for folks in dual parent families, often, both parents are working outside of the home. And so the child had to fend for themselves in terms of coming and going to school and perhaps making themselves dinner. And so that probably is where that individualistic, maybe competitive piece comes from. But the materialistic thing is interesting, right? Because I do think that that likely is fractured by class. So you're going to have some Gen X's who don't really care much for materialistic items or status because it's just something they never had. Or maybe they idolize that then because it's not something that's been attainable for them.

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 21:16 Right. Right. Exactly. Yeah, I will put myself out there that, for example, both of my parents are boomers, and they retired and as soon as they retired, they didn't travel, they didn't do any of that stuff, they both went out and bought new cars outright and paid it without having a car note. And part of that was because they had never been at a place in their lives where they could buy something brand new, or that they could pay for it cash. So just the ability to do it was something important to them. And so for me, especially from you know, being raised in a lower income area of the world down in southern Virginia, being raised in a family that kind of did idolize the ability to have material things, I've had to moderate some of that, even in endurance sports. So, you know, for me, yeah, I might be the person with the $200 kit on at the race, but I promise you, I was wearing like the cheapest crap ever to train in, like I really didn't care you know, or I'm going to Walmart to buy the, you know, $12 sports bra because I just really don't care what I train in. And so, you know, finding the balance between that, especially when it comes to endurance sport, you know, what's considered expensive or

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not, or what's considered status or not. You know, friends kind of in my category, you know, specifically look at, you know, the medals, how big is that medal. So, for example, I've even done I've looked at it on my wall, I might have to take a picture of it, a comparison between two half iron distance races, and one of those medals was as small as an Olympic medal and the other one looked like flavor flame that was like as big as my head. And so, you know, we do talk about this, and we look at it, and we're like, let's think about that and what does that mean, as far as you know, who you are and perceptions of you in the world. I do think that's the case for some of us in the Gen X or category here. So now, I don't know if that holds true for Gen Y. Now Gen Y gets into . And Lisa, I'm gonna ask you a question and you just roll with it here. Have you heard the title or the label of millennial used in malicious ways with groups, individuals, how do you take that in in how the language is used? Because I know you're the you're the communication specialist on this podcast.

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield 23:48 Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Millennial was a dirty word. Oh my gosh did Generation X not love the rise of the millennials, Huh. No work ethic, they just want to float in and float out, they're always questioning right, no respect for authority. Oh, my goodness. Yes. It was not, wasn’t was not, I think it has changed since there have been we now have Gen Z after millennials and then also now the alpha generation. But yeah. Oh, my goodness. I didn't hear much good about millennials when I was kind of in my early 20s moving through into my 30s. Yeah.

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 24:31 Well, and you know, I've I pick and choose my Facebook battles very carefully. Okay. Let me preface this comment by saying that. But you know, I've seen people outside of our industry outside of education, outside of DEI, some of them even outside of endurance sport, that commented on the quote unquote millennial generation, and this is actually pretty recently like in the last year, and they were referring to high school students at the time. And so part of that I had to start dispelling the myth just to remind them that you're not even really talking about the right group of people. Because who you thought was a quote unquote kid is actually your kids school teacher, your police officers. For those of us who live here in the Baltimore area, our mayor is 37 years old. I mean, there's so you know, given that we now have to rethink, you know, what does it mean to both label certain generations, but also how we use it? And and I think part of it is just due to, you know, let's go to the core language of diversity. We don't like anything that's different from us. Until we just get used to it. They're not going anywhere. We just don't like anything different from us.

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield 25:49 Yeah, and I would say, just looking at this chart here, you know, this one is showing millennials is 26 years old to 40 years old and Generation X 41 to 55. So I would wager, then, that the vast majority of people, that middle of that bell curve for triathlon and other endurance sports, are going to be millennials and Generation X right now. Because I do I mean, the 35 to 39 year old category and the 40 to 44 category is pretty darn competitive, like that they did not shrink, right, those categories, they're not yeah, they're not messing around. That's for sure. Huh?

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 26:24

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Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, and so given that, you know, we do have to think about, I think Millennials are a great example of not vilifying generations and groups, because, you know, there's some people that vilify you know, oh, they're, they're a boomer or, you know, they have a particular perspective that doesn't hold true anymore, what have you. And so I do think we need to be careful that the generation isn't used as a slur, but it's more so a framework through which we understand groups broadly. Because I don't want to vilify any of them, frankly, none of them. But it's just a descriptor to help us frame them. And so moving on to the iGen, or Gen Z folks now, this is my baby, Trey, he's 10 years old, so he’d be in this particular category. And this seems to be the folks that are born between 95 and 2012. And so the iGen, Gen Z, that's, that's my son, my oldest son's generation, and then my younger son is in Gen alpha. So if you haven't heard that language yet, it's already out there, Gen alpha, so that's 2013 to 2025. This really helps us to think through what will the next generation want as we introduce folks to endurance sport earlier and earlier, you know, so what will my kid want when he participates in that youth race for example, these are some things that I'm thinking about. Any particulars that we think would hold true for Gen Z, or possibly even for alpha?

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield 28:07 You know, what I'm thinking is, as you know these newer generations emerge, there is less and less acceptance and tolerance of discriminatory practices. Right? So younger generations are much more, on the whole, much more understanding of and believing of the continuum of gender, right? Gender is not a binary, gender identity makes sense, right? A person knows who they are. And so let's be supportive and empathetic and compassionate. So when I think about endurance sport, and this kind of rabid attachment to the gender binary, and all the bills that are going through the state legislators right now banning in particular trans girls and trans women from participating in cisgender girls and women's sport, you know (parentheses, we don't see the same issue for trans men, so I think it's completely rooted in sexism) so I think that the sport is going to struggle. Like if these prohibitive gender policing laws as they interact with sport continue as Generation Y, as , and generation alpha kind of take over all those leadership positions, I think there's going to be a shift there because I don't think sports is going to be able to sustain that because this like complete lack of tolerance for you know quote unquote old people being discriminatory and lacking compassion I think will be a big challenge to the system of endurance sport.

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 29:49 Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, this gets back to the business case that we talked about before around what's going to sustain endurance sport. And continuously and purposefully allowing the eligible or welcomed athletes numbers to drop and shrink, we're not helping ourselves here at all if we don't give attention to this systemic stuff that we haven't really talked about. Ya, it's just we keep shrinking and shrinking and then wonder why the sport is dying.

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield 30:19 Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think that we're going to come to a point here in the next 10 to 15 years probably where the voices of equity are going to start to drown out the voices of the status quo and categorization and discrimination.

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 30:39

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Right, right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So I do think you're right. I mean, I've had conversations, quite candid conversations, with with my oldest son. And what was so curious, I remember picking him up from his last month or so of daycare and he had in his classroom, he had a child that had two moms. And so I was just curious to see how he felt about that. And so I said, well, I said, Trey, how was your day today, you know, our usual conversation. And he said, Well, I played with my friend such and such, the one that had two moms. And I said, Well, what do you think about that having two moms and just left it as an open ended question. And he said, he gave me this face like dumb mom. I mean, wouldn't it be great to have two moms? I mean, one mom is fantastic. Why wouldn't two be fancy, right? It was like a no brainer. Yeah. Yeah. That, of course, two moms will be fantastic. And mommy, no offense, but two daddies would be great too, like he just went on into this conversation of understanding that I wish I could, you know, kind of take those brain cells and clone them and put them in other people's brains to get how this linear thought pattern of who is important, who constitutes a family, who constitutes an athlete, I wish all of that could come out of that one to one brain cell there. But it was almost, it literally was a no brainer to him that oh, this completely makes sense. And I'm not quite sure why it wouldn't make sense to anybody else.

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield 32:09 Yeah, like there's not even, like, the question is, why would you even ask, right? Like, it's just with the wrinkle in the brow, right, like, that doesn't even make sense to me. I think that's important for endurance sport to really consider both in terms of marketing, product development, race and event management, training, coaching. I mean, the coaching piece is really interesting and the training piece, because I think about how you know, all the research, you know, Dr. Stacy Sims talks about this a lot, that all of the physiological and sports science research is largely based on white cisgender men, ages like 20 to 35, or 26 to 40, something like that. And so, you know, training and coaching certifications and scale has all been kind of predicated on this documentation of research that is just not representative of the people who are participating in endurance sports, right. The younger, the older, the women, trans people, non-binary people, people with disabilities, like it just isn't representative. And so unless that literature also shifts, there's going to be this massive, massive disconnect between what it means to be a competitive athlete and endurance sport because the training guides are not going to work. I mean, they don't really work for everyone now, right? And it's gonna just get worse.

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 33:40 Oh, yeah. Oh, they don't work right now. I mean, yeah, they just don't work. And we didn't even get into some of the sociological issues around the human development process. You know, like, you know, for example, someone who was previously able bodied and now isn't, or someone who had a particular disability but now they've had LASIK, or a prosthesis, or they're transitioning back into another space, or even life circumstances, you know, someone who used to have two incomes in the home and now they only have one, or and we've talked a little bit about the COVID, kind of the back end of COVID of how that's gonna affect people's income, and how at one point, you know, yeah, they're looking at a $10,000 bike in their house that they couldn't afford it a year ago, but now they can't afford it. So, you know, we didn't even get into some of that sociological stuff around how context has now shifted, and human development has now changed as a result. We didn't even dive into that stuff because I feel like that's the backdrop to the lived experience here. Even all of that has to be considered now, you know, I'm, you know, if you're, you were co-parenting and now you're not,

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or for whatever reasons, it could possibly be linked to COVID in particular, or you might have some type of side effect from having COVID and you used to be a competitive athlete and now you have to reassess what your body can or cannot do. All of that I think is really part and parcel with this generational conversation.

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield 35:09 Yeah. And also the accrual of wealth. Right. So, you know, COVID aside, part of white supremacisy is that, you know, white people have had access to generational wealth and the accrual of wealth primarily through purchasing of real estate, and access to loans and such. And so that creates this disadvantage to communities of color right now, because of that historical perspective. It is changing, particularly for women, where gains are perhaps more noticeable for white women, I suppose I should say. But as time moves on, right, in terms of Kendrick and Trey's generation, like how is that wealth accrual and generational pass-down of wealth going to shift in the next 100 years and how will that affect participation in sport when people's financial capacity changes or perhaps their priorities change? Right?

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 36:10 That's right. That's right. Absolutely. That will shift. So, you know, we're looking at human beings who are who are created to develop but we're also looking at context that's created to develop. Like, God forbid, but you know, what happens the next time a pandemic comes. You know, the COVID-19 is not our first pandemic. Now, it's the first one we've we've personally lived through, but it's not the only one. So what does that mean as far as sport, if endurance sport lives that long? So, you know, I think that's something to really consider, as we think about these generations and what they're experiencing internally, externally, contextually, all the big words there. And how we want to respond appropriately as coaches and coaches and anyone that's in the field of endurance sport.

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield 36:58 Yeah, I think there's a lot to think about here. I'm really glad we have this conversation.

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold 37:02 Absolutely. See, building that plane as we fly still works right, Lisa?

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield Yep.

37:11 Hey feisty folks, Jamila here, the Feisty Team community innovator. In June of 2020, we launched the feisty team to help you all stay feisty no matter what the year through your way. Over the last six months, we've come together as a team to try and make the world a feistier place and connect with other like-minded friends in triathlon and endurance sports. We meet every month and bring in experts that can help us on the path to building feistiness in ourselves and others and create meaningful change in our sport and community. The monthly subscription is only $22 and you'll get monthly feisty huddles and webinars with expert guests, big sponsor discounts, swag, and monthly prizes, challenges to stay motivated, a community of feisty like-minded friends, plus, we are adding

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new initiatives all the time, like our new book club and virtual workouts. Go to feistyteam.com to join us and become a part of the feistiest team in endurance sports so we can crush 2021 together. That is feistyteam.com.

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Dr. Lisa Ingarfield: [un]phased, a podcast produced by Live Feisty Media and supported by the Outspoken Women in Triathlon Summit.

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold: Edited and produced by the fabulous Lindsay Glassford.

Dr. Lisa Ingarfield: Email us at [email protected] and find us on social @tritodefi @drgoldspeaks or @outspokenwomenintri. I’m Lisa.

Dr. Shaunna Payne Gold: I’m Shaunna. Thanks for listening, stay unphased folks. See ya next time.

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