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In Conversation: Claude Littner and Khalid Hafeez

22 Feature – Claude Littner in conversation

Claude Littner, who this autumn became was executive chairman of a multinational CL: After seven fantastic years, aged 29, I Lord Sugar’s aide on the BBC’s version oil services group, and relied heavily on felt a strong sense that I wanted something of The Apprentice, recently spent time people with specific expertise. For me, entrepreneurial. Through really good with Professor Khalid Hafeez, Dean of business is not just about making money, fortune – and if there’s a strand throughout The Claude Littner Business School. it’s also about what you can learn and my career and life, it's good fortune – I They talked about The Apprentice’s Lord gain from your experience. As part of that, eventually found something I thought I Sugar, entrepreneurship, Claude’s own education is very important: it’s enthralling could make successful: retail menswear career and what excites him about being to see new things, to understand concepts, accessories concessions – shops within shops, involved with the Business School. to learn from the experience of others. a pretty novel concept at the time. When Education is critical and the education I told Unilever I was leaving, they thought Khalid Hafeez: We’ve all heard about your process goes on all the time: it’s what makes I was joking and when I showed them my new role on The Apprentice. How did you you a rounded human being. business plan, they told me I would fail and feel when Lord Sugar asked you to take up that they would keep my job open. this role? KH: You’ve been a successful entrepreneur but let’s go back to the beginning: what I had little by way of seed capital and Claude Littner: I’ve known Alan Sugar for brought you to Ealing College in the 1970s. no experience of menswear or retail, so 25 years. It started off with me working for on paper at least, a recipe for disaster. him – and being quite wary of him – and CL: The attraction of Ealing College was I was emboldened by the fact that the has developed into a close relationship that it offered a four-year honours business economy at the time was in turmoil where we know each others’ strengths degree, with six months of each year and manufacturers were very cautious and weaknesses... but of course he hasn’t spent at college followed by six months about extending credit. I devised a got any weaknesses! He’s got skills and in industry, so I was able to earn some unique proposition and managed to sign attributes that I admire enormously and it money whilst I was studying. It also turned up some manufacturers, others soon never fails to surprise me how astute he is. out to be a great learning experience. I followed. My concessions were within the When he asked me to take over from Nick was sponsored by Lucas CAV and worked Burtons menswear group. I entered into Hewer, I didn’t really want the job – I was in a number of departments, so I got a an arrangement with the manufacturers very happy to continue doing the interviews good feel for the world of work. Lucas whereby they would give me the stock as I had done since the first series – but it was not a great company in my view; it I required and, once sold, the manufacturers was difficult to refuse him. Sometimes you had poor industrial relations, but I began would receive the full wholesale price plus just have to take opportunities. to understand about how to be a good a percentage of the retail profits. The manager, if only as a result of seeing so business grew to the point where I had KH: In The Apprentice, Lord Sugar is looking many poor ones! around 50 shops in shops. Then again good for a business partner. What do you think it fortune stepped in: I learnt that Bourne and takes to be a successful entrepreneur? As soon as I graduated I left Lucas and Hollingsworth (an Oxford Street department started looking for another job. Ealing store) had been sold to Raybeck group. CL: Entrepreneurs come in all shapes and College had given me a huge amount of I managed to get a menswear accessory sizes and there are plenty of people who confidence and my highly relevant degree concession in there and did very well. wouldn’t make it as entrepreneurs because subjects, coupled with industry experience, Within a short time, this was extended to they haven’t got a risk-taking attitude or enabled me to demonstrate that I had a menswear, sportswear and children’s wear. the right mental framework. You need to good handle on how things really worked. I recognise that you’re going to have some showed initiative by contacting companies I experienced five years of growth, hard work stressful situations and you can’t be afraid directly and landed a job at Unilever, as a and a great learning experience of building to make decisions. You also have to be management accountant. Unilever is an a business from nothing and with nothing! flexible. If something’s going wrong, you outstanding company and a great learning One minute I’d be in the stockroom tagging can’t be pig-headed and continue down the and training ground; I worked very hard and garments, next minute talking to a company same road. If you’re going into an industry was rewarded by a ‘fast track’ progression. director about having more space within a you don’t know well, it’s important to retail outlet. Maybe all good things come employ and engage with people who really KH: But there was an important turning to an end, and the writing was on the wall do know the business and to listen to what point, wasn’t there, as you became an when eventually Bournes closed and Burtons they have to say. For a number of years, I entrepreneur? became more successful. With that success

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Read more about The Claude Littner Business School at uwl.ac.uk/business

Karren Brady CBE, Lord Sugar and Claude Littner with the 2015 contestants from The Apprentice

came a harder edge to their dealings and they imposed higher commission rates and staffing requirements. The business was no longer viable, but I was now in a stronger financial position.

Next, I saw an opportunity to build on my success and decided to open a standalone chain of sportswear shops. I was very enthusiastic and raised money for the venture. However, within a short time I realised I’d made a big mistake. I had been too eager to grow the business and had not done proper due diligence or taken enough time to understand the customer profile and stockholding. Lady luck came to my rescue on this occasion: I was approached by a businessman who saw a great opportunity, and he bought the business. I was able to fully pay back my investors and get out whole. Meanwhile I’d started doing consultancy work. I did this for a couple of years, making recommendations to company directors, and then implementing my recommendations. I was successful and seemed to have an aptitude for finding position where I had people working for a 20-year-old and you take over from your ways to turn companies around. me. I am tough, I am direct and I don’t take father who happened to be the chairman nonsense, but you’ve got to treat people of the company, the workforce is unlikely However, I now felt that my degree was properly. Being a decent human being is to respect you because you haven’t earned 20 years out of date; I had a strong desire its own reward, and as a bi-product you your position. But if you earn your stripes, to update my qualifications and I wanted get a lot more out of people and they’ll people are more likely to listen to what you an MBA. So I came back to Ealing College respect you more. If you have to make have to say; they will work with you and of Higher Education and did an Executive harsh business decisions, it makes it easier learn from you, as you learn from them. Master in Business Administration, because you do it in a decent, respectful graduating in 1990. I loved the MBA and and straightforward way. I learnt how to KH: We’re delighted you’ve lent your met some great people from different walks be a leader and to take people with me name to the Business School. Tell us about of life and business experience, so we were and encourage them. I’ve always wanted your inspiration to get involved with the all able to contribute in different ways. to surround myself with good people. University. And what do you want to get It was very hard work and academically And if I spot someone with talent and out of it? rigorous, but I’d do it all again! With my the will to improve, I always seek to find first degree I was striving to achieve, in the an opportunity for them to develop and CL: I’ve been given a very rare opportunity second I was doing it for my own pleasure, flourish. By the same token, if someone is in life, which is to become involved because I wanted to learn more about lazy, disruptive and careless, they don’t last with the University. I didn’t seek it. The subjects I really enjoyed. long with me. Making sure you have the Vice-Chancellor, Professor Peter John right people in the right role is critical. approached me some years ago and invited KH: Let’s talk about management and me to Chair the Campaign Committee as leadership. What competencies do you need KH: So, how is leadership different? part of the £50 million development of the to be a successful manager? University. When Peter said he wanted to CL: If you’re a manager, it’s because you’ve name the Business School, I thought he CL: Here I go back to my early days at been promoted into a role. If you’re a leader meant for me to approach Lord Sugar. But Lucas, where I felt that managers did not it’s because you’ve earned respect, you’re at when he said, “no we want your name” – speak properly to their staff. I often thought the top of the tree. It’s a matter of being an well, I was overwhelmed and consider it a I’d do things differently if ever I was in a inspiration to others. If, for example, you are wonderful honour.

24 Feature – Claude Littner in conversation

I’ve done lots of good things and been CL: When I was a graduate there were lots very proud of them. But this is the highight. of opportunities and I always knew I’d get I’d like to do all I can to further enhance a job. So it’s much, much tougher for the the reputation of the University, and most graduates now. Having said that, there are particularly The Claude Littner Business more opportunities now for starting your School. I want stronger links between the own business, and for developing your own Business School and the myriad of excellent ideas: you can have a couple of guys creating companies around us. The opportunity an app in their bedroom. Whereas in my to talk to students and impart some of day the opportunities for entrepreneurs to the knowledge, experiences and raise money or go to angel investors were adventures gained from my long career very limited, now there are so many more is one that I relish. opportunities for people to get funding to create or grow a business. I think we’re seeing KH: I know that the success of the an upsurge in the economy with companies students, especially those coming from employing more people, and there are more underprivileged backgrounds, is very close opportunities now for creativity. The natural to your heart. route for me when I graduated was to go into industry. Now I think the more obvious CL: Absolutely. To play a part in that route is for people to start their own business. endeavour would be very rewarding. My only fear is that I won’t be good enough. I think the massive change that technology I want to get more companies involved, is bringing about means that even five have more student exchange programmes years down the line, things are going to and work placements; generally to make the be completely different. That’s where Business School a busier and more vibrant education comes in. If you’re a smart and place, and to use a retail analogy…to make entrepreneurial individual with a great it a ‘one stop shop’ for learning, exchange business idea, one of the Steve Jobs of UWL’s Business School was named of ideas and entrepreneurship. the world, then you probably don’t need after Claude Littner in appreciation of a degree. But for the vast majority of us, his exemplary business track record and KH: Looking back at when you first if you can get a good qualification behind contributions to the University. Claude graduated, do you think students you, it will stand you in good stead. It’s was a student at Ealing Technical College graduating now face the same challenges certainly three wonderful and memorable from 1970–73 and subsequently obtained and opportunities as you did back then? years to look forward to and back on. an MBA from the Business School.

Professor Khalid Hafeez is Dean of The Claude Littner Business School. He is an experienced academic with over 25 years of teaching, research, educational management and technology transfer experience across several disciplines. He has previously had senior roles at the York Management School, Bradford School of Management, Sheffield Business School and Cardiff University.

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