Exploring Special Collections and University Archives: The William Elliot Griffis Collection

Thu, 7/28 • 46:18

SUMMARY KEYWORDS griffis, , collection, students, new brunswick, photographs, rutgers, tokyo, japanese, wrote, records, diary, died, college, books, essays, rufus, sarah, graduated, important

SPEAKERS Tim Corlis, Grace Agnew, Sonia Yaco, Jim Niessen, Fernanda Perrone, Kayo Denda

Fernanda Perrone 00:00 And thank you everyone for coming to this late afternoon program. I'm just going to share my screen. The William Elliot Griffis collection documents the life career and connections of the man who has been described as, quote, the most important interpreter of Japan to the west before World War One. William Eliot Griffis was born in , in 1843. His father was a prosperous coal trader, who traveled to Europe, Africa and Asia. The Griffis children enjoyed a happy middle class childhood, attending local primary schools. JOHN griffiss coal business suffered badly, however, in the financial Panic of 1857. After graduating from the prestigious Central High School at the age of 16 Griffis apprentice for several years as a jewelry designer. With the outbreak of the US civil war, he joined the Home Guard. In 1863. He enlisted in the 44th Pennsylvania regiment of militia, where he was made a corporal Griffis arrived at Rutgers College in New Brunswick, New Jersey. In 1865, planning to become a minister. He was awarded a scholarship and permitted to live in Hertzog Hall. The only building were housing was available at New Brunswick Theological Seminary at Rutgers, Griffis majored in liberal arts, although he took many of the new science courses, and became a campus leader, serving as founder of the college newspaper, the targum, and the yearbook The Scarlet Letter. He was an excellent student who won several prizes and was inducted into the Phi Beta Kappa Honor Society. In fall 1869, Griffis was a spectator at the first college football game played between Rutgers and Princeton. Rufus wrote about ruckers victory and the target at wreckers. Griffis met the earliest Japanese students to study in the United States, which sparked his interest in the nation of Japan. 6000 miles away, Japan was in the midst of a turbulent bakumatsu period, following the forced opening of trading ports and the imposition of unequal treaties. The Tokugawa leader saw how China and other Asian nations had been colonized by Western powers and hope to avoid that fate by rapidly assimilating Western science and technology and harnessing it for their own ends. But why records the college's long standing affiliation with the Dutch Reformed Church meant that the early Dutch missionaries in Japan, particularly Guido virbac, were familiar with this small college. The first Japanese students to come to New Brunswick were your coisa hater. And your Koi die. Hey, from Kumamoto, the nephews of reformer Yokoi shown on your Koi brothers attended the Wreckers

- 1 - Transcribed by an automated process. Grammar School, later ruckers preparatory school as they were not sufficiently academically prepared to enter Rutgers college. So he later transferred to Annapolis after Rutgers and returned home to work for the major government. Well die He returned home because of illness. He became a founder of a western style school in Kyushu, before dying of tuberculosis in 1869. The following year, the Koi brothers were joined by another young samurai from the domain of edgy Zen. Later Prefecture near the Sea of Japan, born yada yada yada hace, but better known under his assumed name kusakabe Taro kusakabe entered Rutgers college in the summer term of 1867. He proved to be an outstanding student, particularly in mathematics, entering the scientific school before the reform of the curriculum in 1871. Because the kabe was forced to take many courses, like French, Latin and rhetoric, with the students following the classical curriculum, Rufus tutored kusakabe in Latin number one in his class, because the copy became the first Japanese student to be elected to Phi Beta Kappa, and one of the first to Japanese to graduate from an American college. Tragically, because a copy died of tuberculosis a few weeks before graduation, and his degree was awarded posthumously. Pictured here are his classmates and friends. He died six days before this photo was taken. His funeral was held at the second Reformed Church, and all college exercises were suspended for that day. He's buried in the willow Grove Cemetery in New Brunswick in a special section with several other Japanese nationals who died in the northeast during this period. In the next few years, more Japanese students found their way to New Brunswick to study. After the restoration of the Emperor in 1868, Japan stabilized under a new centralized government, international students, rather than going abroad in secret, began to receive stipends from the Japanese government. This Japanese student group in New Brunswick is David 1871. Some of these students attended Rutgers college, some the grammar school, some were just visiting. We are not sure of the exact number of Japanese students who attended Rutgers. About 20 are documented as attending records college. However, some estimates state that over 200 we're in New Brunswick at some point during the 19th century. Pictured here is Sycamore kozo. The assumed name of Takayama Yoshi Nadi, who was born in Kagoshima or Satsuma Han. He left Japan clandestinely entered the scientific course at Rutgers College in 1867 and remained there until 1871. Following a trip around the world, he returned to Japan in 1873 and became an officer in three governmental departments interior education and foreign affairs, a director of the new Imperial University at Tokyo. He was instrumental in its assuring its early success. Sugawara died in 1876, from tuberculosis, apparently brought on by overwork. A smaller number of Japanese students actually graduated from Rutgers. Pictured here is head Tony Chico, from Yamaguchi and choshi. You who enter the scientific course at Rutgers college and graduated in 1875. Back in Japan, he became vice president of Tokyo University and Dean of the law department. From 1891 to 1900. He was governor of three cities and prefectures, he won a Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He later became governor of healbot prefecture, and a member of the House of peers and was decorated by the Emperor with a First Order of Merit here is Takagi Subbarao from soroka in northwestern Japan, a samurai himself he came as a companion to the no woman cuts you quote unquote, son of cuts UK shoe founder of the modern Japanese Navy and attended the Wreckers Grammar School. He served as vice consul in from 1876 to 1880. His infant daughter is buried in New Brunswick. Although the greatest number of Japanese students attended records in the late 1860s and 1870s, a handful of students continue to come into the 1920s. Pictured here is the class of 1889 football team with mazzucato Kojiro, taking an 1885 born in Nagasaki mazzucato was the third son of Japan's first modern finance minister. He graduated from Rutgers Grammar School, and entered the scientific course at Rutgers College in 1885. Two years later, he entered Yale University Law School and graduated with honors. Upon returning to

- 2 - Transcribed by an automated process. Japan in 1890, he went into business and became president or director of several corporations, including Kawasaki shipyards, which became Kawasaki Heavy Industries. He is known for his important collection of pennies and woodblocks now at Tokyo National Museum. These photographs in Japanese students were originally part of the University Archives. At some time in the past, they were moved to the Griffiths collection to return to William Elliot Griffis. After graduation from Rutgers in 1869, he enrolled in the New Brunswick Theological Seminary while teaching part time at the Rutgers grammar school. It was through his context of the grammar school that Griffis was offered the opportunity to teach natural science and kusakabe is home for kui who's reform minded leader Matthew Dinesh shukaku did not want his province to be left behind. In September 1870, the rector of the grammar school wrote to Griffis that records president Campbell, and just showed him a letter asking for a young man single and not a minister, to go to Japan to teach the natural sciences and organize educational work in general. He was offered a generous salary of 20 $400, later raised to 30 $600, a house and a horse. The salary was an important motivator for Griffis as he needed to help support his struggling family at home in Philadelphia. Leaving for Japan in Fall 1870. Griffith spent 11 months teaching in Fukui he kept a detailed diary of his life there, which he also described in long letters to his older sister Margaret Griffis was already witnessing the practical results of the Meiji Restoration. No longer a feudal principality Kukui became an ordinary province or state. While important developments happened elsewhere. Griffis observed students and teachers leaving for Tokyo. Noting in his diary, exodus of Fukui students still continues. Griffis soon himself made the decision to leave for Tokyo, where he was promised employment at a new Polytechnic. When Griffis arrived in Tokyo, however, the Polytechnic was not ready to open so he busied himself with reading and writing. Several of his Fukui students joined him in Tokyo, where they shared a bacon Samurai house. In this photograph, we see Karl Kasahara, Griffis favorite pupil, Casper, nakazawa, Griffis asst Nakano, and several others. Without his generous salary from Fukui Griffis became more concerned about money, which he also needed to pay off the debts he had incurred and coming to Japan. He was able to secure a contract for a series of English Japanese grammar books from the Brent Bancroft company from San Francisco. Fine Finally, he found employment teaching physics, chemistry and law at the daigaku non coal, one of the predecessors of Tokyo University. He was joined by his sister Margaret, who kept house for him to teach students and eventually gains an appointment at the first government school for girls. Griffis in his sister left Japan in 1874. Griffis was in a dispute with the chi say got Bo, the old non coal about his contract. Margaret, on the other hand, was offered the opportunity to set up western style teacher training at the chi se gaco. But a dutiful sister accompanied her brother back to the United States, and home. Griffis completed his signature work, the makhado Empire, published in 1876, the Macondo his empire became a best seller, which went through 12 additions. He achieved his goal of becoming a minister, serving in three pastorates. In , and upstate New York, were not caring for his flock. He devoted himself for 50 years to writing, lecturing and collecting material about Japan, producing more than 20 books, hundreds of magazine articles, newspaper editorials and reference book contributions. Throughout his long life, Griffis remained in contact with many of the Japanese students at Rutgers foreign workers in Japan, and friends from Fukui and Tokyo, as revealed by the hundreds of letters in the William Eliot Griffis collection. Many of the young men that Griffith knew in early Meiji Japan went on to have distinguished careers. Several of his Fukui students emerged as fine scholars and others went on to contribute to the development of science and technology in the Meiji anti show periods. Nobu Shige Amanda morning. Griffith student in both kui and Tokyo, became a friend and biographer of left cardio burn, as well as a memento mori. Griff is kept in touch with many of his friends and students

- 3 - Transcribed by an automated process. from the kui. The Griffis collection contains letters from Carl Kasahara, who later became the manager of Kobe peer limited his assistant knockin And others. Matthew direct came in the son of metsu diversion Gaku wasn't important correspondent Matthew Dyer Cayman was made a vine account in 1906 in gratitude for his father's service to the country. In 1917, he wrote to Griffis asking him to write his recollections of his father, who he hardly remembered. In response, Rufus wrote a lengthy description, quote, seen in the perspective of nearly 50 years. He said, Shinjuku, the old Prince, as we foreigners used to call him looms is one of the great men of his era, and not least among the makers of the New Japan. This feudal ruler labored for the welfare of all his people in developing resources, promoting education, science, hygiene, and sound philosophy through reform. Griffis often requested details of happenings in Japan, so the letters constitute an important historical resource. He also frequently asked his correspondence to send him books, photographs or documents, which he then incorporated into his collection. Initially, Griffis pasted documents and photographs and scrapbooks, which created an important if fragile historical record. In 1926 27, Griffis finally returned to Japan. Arriving in Tokyo, he and his wife Sarah undertook a 2000 mile journey to the four major islands of Japan, , and Manchuria. As in his earliest day, everywhere, Griffis went he collected photographs, documents and publications, as he had before he kept a diary of the trip. The highlight of the trip, however, was a triumphant return to the Cooley. Griffis wrote, I was particularly delighted with my reception for kui, it consisted of four glorious days, the whole town was decorated and more than 10,000 students were kind enough to come out to welcome me. He visited the prefectural offices, schools, factories, his old house and the Fukui College of Technology in normal school, making speeches everywhere. intriguingly, he met with a Tuesday club, a men's organization that discussed improving social life through having parties without geishas. Clearly, Griffis was still a figure of significance in Fukui so many years later, Rutgers professor and curator artists Burke's one of my predecessors, once described Rufus as a saver of string. Indeed, Griffis most enduring legacy is his archival collection of over 250 boxes, was donated to records after his death on February 5 1928, reputedly Sara Griffis filled half a box car of a train with Griffis books, documents, photographs and ephemera for the slow journey from upstate New York to New Brunswick. Among the highlights of the Griffis collection, are William Eliot Griffis diaries, letters, scrapbooks and educational materials from him service as a teacher in Fukui and Tokyo. Griffis regularly asked his students to write essays in English about aspects of Japanese culture, impressions of foreigners, geography and folkways. He incorporated the information derived from these essays into his books about Japan. Margaret Griffin has asked her female students to write autobiographical essays as well. My reads diaries and student essays help add the perspective of gender to the Griffiths collection. Her students ranged in age from elementary school children, like Naka Morrison, to older teenagers, like Watanabe fruited. Most were from Samurai families, as well as recounting childhood games and Spats with siblings. The essays describe the deaths of family members, frequent moves from the family's feudal domains to Tokyo, and the wars and instability of the Meiji Restoration period. One of Margaret's most articulate students was Suki yo. Two versions of whose essays are included. She concluded her second essay writing, quote, as soon as I came to Tokyo, I came to school when I saw Mrs. veeder, Margaret's fellow teacher, then I was very afraid, because she was foreign woman and I first time cannot do ABC After the one year, then you came to the school and you are a very good teacher and everybody said you are very good and kind teacher. When you will go back to America. I am very sorry. Another highlight of the collection are the approximately 10,000 photographs in Japan. Although Griffis did not have a camera himself, he had photographs taken at studios was given photos by others or purchase them. Many of these

- 4 - Transcribed by an automated process. photographs will use as illustrations and Griffis books are incorporated into the many slide lectures that he delivered. This series of mounted albumen photographs of Fukui is dated 1900. I'll just show some quickly. This is Fukui mode and Castle sivvi though the rulers tombs a religious festival the bridge between Fukui and Kanazawa it's a country school near Fukui the shin may temple. Griffis also acquired this set of photographs in postcard format, probably in the 1910s 1920s. Here we have the the wall of the castle just cherry blossoms at the psychiatrists on fujishima Shrine at the street scene. This is Matthew Dyer we heard about earlier his experimental farm. The collection also contains some beautiful miscellaneous photographs. This is the diamond summer garden. Mother garden the river line with temples. Chris Griffis also obtained this 1915 map of Fukui which someone annotated showing where Griffis house was and the location of churches, which of course was very important to Griffis and we have many maps in the collection. Here's another one. also of interest is an unfinished project that Griffis worked on for many years. A study of the Oh ye toy, his fellow foreigners who work for the Japanese government. As part of this project, he collected written accounts by Westerners in Japan, such as engineer , and missionaries, James Balor, and . The Griffis collection contains several 1000 books based on Griffis stone books. The collection also includes titles acquired later that document Westerners in Japan and her sphere of influence during the Meiji and taisho periods. Griffis gave many of his Japanese language books to the wasteland collection on East Asia at Cornell University. But foreign language titles in his possession of his death, were transferred to records. Finally, the collection includes numerous writings by Griffis both unpublished and published, research notes, maps, prints, and ephemera. The griffons collection is used by researchers ranging from scholars from throughout the globe to middle school students from Japan and New Jersey. New Brunswick has two Sister cities in Japan, the kuih the home of kusakabe, Taro, and Sarah oka, the home of Takagi sabouraud both cities regularly send delegations of adults and children to New Brunswick to always visit the rivers collection. The children are accompanied by students from the New Brunswick schools who are their coasts. rector's undergraduate classes regularly visit the purchase collection and incorporate collection materials into assignments. Most recently, professor had a co Wakabayashi from the East Asian Languages and Cultures department taught an honor seminar based on the Griffis collection, where the students created a digital exhibit about the collection. numerous books and articles have been written based on the collection, including a novel in Japanese about the Japanese students at Rutgers. exhibitions have been bounded in both New Brunswick in Japan, featuring the story of Griffis and kusakabe. Most recently, in 2021, Joseph Henning of the Rochester Institute of Technology has published an addition of Griffis writings. In 2000, about three quarters of the Griffis collection was microfilmed as a commercial project by Adam Matthew company, the microphone has now been digitized and can be SP searched via the area studies Japan database. The 287 page. The 287 page finding aid or guide to the breakfast collection has recently been put online. Thanks to my colleague, Tara maharsha. The finding it can be searched here. I'm going to try to demonstrate. Can people see the finding aid?

Sonia Yaco 25:41 I can only see the link. I think it's coming. Is it coming? I think you'd have to share your screen to do that. Oh, you share it.

Fernanda Perrone 25:57

- 5 - Transcribed by an automated process. Share it again. Yeah. I cannot see it. Oh, here it is. Okay. So I'll just try to do a quick search for from Margaret breakfast. It's already there. So you can see the student essays and photographs of Margaret. Another photograph. So thank you very much for your attention. And I'd be I'd be happy to take questions.

Sonia Yaco 27:16 We've got no comments in the chat. I know there are people who are used the collection in a variety of different ways on the call.

Grace Agnew 27:25 And I'm just curious. I mean, you having read the text of Sonia and others some grant proposal, it seems like a lot of you know, some of the collection was actually created by his wife and and I'm just wondering if there's a sense of, you know, how much that the photographs etc, were really attributed to her should really be attributed to her rather than to him? Well, that's

Fernanda Perrone 27:56 a good question. My impression was that, Sarah, she packed up the collection and Senate to New Brunswick. And we do have correspondence with her. But she wasn't too involved in the collection itself. But the person who was involved was Griffis granddaughter, Katherine Johnson. And later in 1969, apparently, there was a lot of material that remained with the family in 1928. And in 1969, Catherine gave a lot of material to records, and she actually annotated it. And a lot of her annotations are very helpful in identifying people and places and things. And she did some other things like a genealogy of the family, which were very helpful. Natalie, do you have a question? Yeah. So

Sonia Yaco 28:59 did you say that about three quarters of the collection was microfilm and that's now digitize?

Fernanda Perrone 29:07 Yeah, it's in it's in a database. You can find it on the library's list of databases. It's called area studies, Japan, it's along with other Japanese resources. Okay, unfortunately, they didn't. They didn't microfilm the whole collection. And they later on we didn't really see them continuing.

Sonia Yaco 29:31 And my other question had to do with it seems like an awful lot of early people died from TB. Was this out of proportion with what one might expect?

Fernanda Perrone 29:44 Well, you know, I slipped on it first. But at one point, I was looking at the kusakabe. His classmates like who was there at Rutgers at the same time as he was and a lot of them died of TB as well. So, I think it was, I mean, certainly. I mean, everyone said that kusakabe worked, that he worked so hard, that he overdid it. And then at certain points, he was short of money. So that might have been a contributing factor. And, of course, I don't know about the medic, we need to talk to a medical historian. I mean, there was tuberculosis was in Japan, as well as in the United States. So it you know, it wasn't we

- 6 - Transcribed by an automated process. should have a question of immunity. I think, you know, many people died young then. And these people were incredibly hard working. Thank you.

Tim Corlis 30:41 I'd like to ask, I've seen the, the Japanese visiting students who come to do research with it. Can you talk about their enthusiasm at all and what this might mean to them to come use the collection?

Fernanda Perrone 30:55 Are you talking about like the middle class, middle school students,

30:59 the students we run into in the reading room that, that are able to travel to the US and, and us do some research in the collection. I mean, I

Fernanda Perrone 31:12 mean, really, we have like two types of students who come, there are students who come as part of groups, and they are more like, they come for a show and tell, like for one day, and they are really thrilled to see the collection, and they take loads of photos, and we have some samurai swords. So they love to see the samurai swords, and sometimes they start waving them around, which probably isn't. And we have a samurai helmet, too. And these have been given as gifts, I think, you know, after the Meiji Restoration, when you weren't allowed to carry a sword anymore, there were all of these swords that were around, and so people would give them as gifts. So they gave them to people in New Brunswick. But But then we have other other students, like graduate students, even some undergraduates actually doing in depth research projects. And for them, it's, you know, it's a rare opportunity. The rivers collection is is so diverse, that people have have come looking at many topics and many different individuals and different periods. So I, I mean, I think it's, it's a very, it's a very rich resource. And we hope that now the finding aid is online that we will get even even more people will find it that way. Thank you. You're welcome. Did you have a question? Tayo.

Kayo Denda 32:53 Yes. Yeah. I was wondering if you could speak a little bit more about Sarah Griffis whether she was in Japan with her husband or what was her background? Yeah, I just like wanted to learn more about her.

Fernanda Perrone 33:11 Yes, that's a good question. Because she was actually read the second wave. His his first way, Katherine. They married I think not long after he returned from Japan. And she was Ambassador graduate. And they had three children. But she died fairly young. I think she died in 1898 when she was probably in her 40s. And some of the younger child was quite young, and he remarried Sarah, Sarah Frances King, in 1900. And like Katherine, Sarah was also a Vassar graduate. I mean, they were from upstate New York, which was where his two of his churches were in upstate New York. And so, so his first wife was did not go to Japan with him. But when he returned to Japan in 1926 27, Sarah went with him. And they, too, they traveled together. And we do I have looked at some of her, maybe have we have heard diary. We have some of her letters, I couldn't find anything of great you know, a great significance really, but certainly, this was an amazing experience for her to be in Japan for six months.

- 7 - Transcribed by an automated process. And she she was younger than Griffis and outlived him for many years. And she kept in touch with some of his contacts in Japan. Thank you. You're welcome. Jim.

Jim Niessen 35:18 Yes, Fernando, I think you said that three quarters of the papers are in the Adam Matthew database. Could you say something about the portion of the papers that are not in the database?

Fernanda Perrone 35:32 Yeah, well, there's some Griffis? as, as I've said, he was a great collector of stuff like newspaper clippings. And so we have many, you know, boxes of newspaper clippings, which were not microphones. So that wasn't really a great loss. I think what. What was unfortunate was they didn't microfilm, the photographs, any of the photographs. And because as well as the Japanese photographs, we have Korean photographs, which have now been digitized to another project. We have Chinese photographs. And then we have griffiss family photographs. And then we have other photographs. So unfortunately, none of them were were microfilmed and digitized and, and also, the oversize material was not my profound. And oversize material consists of a lot of maps, some more interesting than others. prints, posters. Other other oversize documents. Thank you.

Kayo Denda 36:52 Can I ask another question? Of course, I was wondering, you have worked with this collection for a course of some years. Do you see the sort of the changing focus of the research of people there is I'm not talking about the middle school students, but the researchers that thick the collection for their scholarly work. And you see any any sort of trajectory or direction of this research from the time you started to present? I think

Fernanda Perrone 37:29 I think what's happened was there's there's been a resurgence of interest in the Griffis collection in the past couple of years, maybe the past five years, there was there was a lot of activity in the in the 80s. Before before I came to records. There were some major symposia and publications, also even in the 1970s 1970s and 80s. But then there was sort of slight there were still a lot of interest. But there was a bit of a decline in in the 90s, and 2000s. And what I found now is there's a new generation of scholars who were interested in the grips collection, and this is like Professor pedigo Wakabayashi from the East Asian languages and cultures. She has gotten really interested in the collect a grant, to host symposia and workshops about the collection. And I was also working with a scholar from Japan in the past few years, who got interested in kusakabe, and organizers and a couple of symposia in Japan, where it was more people were coming. With a new perspective, I think, and using more like contemporary, contemporary historical, viewing the collection more through a contemporary historical lens, which I think is great. And I'm looking looking forward to that. Continuing. There's there's also some renewed interest in Fukui of about Griffis and in fact, the Fukui Historical Museum. Read rebill Griffis I guess the city of the Cooley rebuilt Griffis house, I guess I don't think I mentioned this in my talk, but I'm He had a house built for him, which is a western style house. And nobody had ever seen a western style house before. In fact, there were two there was one for another teacher. And I think the house stood until the 1930s or so. But it was destroyed and gooey was bombed during the war. There were also earthquakes and fires. So that house was destroyed. And they actually reconstructed it in its original location. And

- 8 - Transcribed by an automated process. it's quite, it's quite an amazing site. It's also green eye. And, of course, the early photos are black and white. And I don't know if there was anything saying that the house was green. But I mean, I did provide some what information and I had where Griffis described his house and did a little drawing of it. And so I gave that information to the authorities in security. But the green color is very strike. Oh, so it's a green color. I thought it was green in a sense of environmentally. Oh, no. Not particularly. No, it's bright green. So I think people also are trying to correct some of the inaccuracies, because Griff Griffis wrote, you know, he wrote a tremendous amount of the collection, about his collection and about Japan. And it seemed like at that as he got older, he tended to exaggerate more and more and sort of, especially his own role. But also he exaggerated things like the number of students, the number of Japanese students who were at records. So I think what people have done is has actually gone have tried to document exactly who these students were. And what we realize is that many of them, they were in New Brunswick, like they were visitors or they worked with private student tutors, but they didn't necessarily go to record. So that's one point of confusion, which is cleared up. And also that there were Japanese students in other places like in Brooklyn. Somebody wrote a book about Japanese students in one I know he studied Brooklyn, but I think he read about Japanese students in , as well. So it was Rutgers was one of the earliest places but they did then spread out to other other places.

Sonia Yaco 42:51 Is your hands still up?

Fernanda Perrone 43:02 Somebody has a question in the shot. Does the collection include Griffiths diary, when he was tutoring kusakabe Tarot. And it does. But he doesn't really say much he just said gave kusakabe Latin lesson today. So it's not his diary is not it's sort of its variable. Sometimes there's a lot of detail, especially like when he's when he's living in Japan. But other other times there's not that much so

43:45 goes until 530 to 330 to an hour and a half.

Fernanda Perrone 44:08 So it looks like we don't have any more questions. We just have Pete Peter mikolas. From the records press is asking me if I'm going to write a biography of preface. I don't, I don't think so. But there is a biography of Rufus, which was written in 1976 by Edward motion, which is very good.

Sonia Yaco 44:36 Well, thank you very much everyone. I realized that I to beginning I forgot to introduce myself. I'm Sonia Jaco. I'm the associate director and head of special collections and University Archives. We're very grateful for the 30 plus people who joined us today. And we since we recorded this, we will make that recording available to you You and anyone else who registered, feel free to send it out to your friends as well. We'll be sending the link out in the coming days. Do Stay tuned for our next exploring Special Collections and University Archives talks. Upcoming will be one on artists books, and one on rare books and bit by our new Rare Books assessment librarian. And with that, I will bid you all adieu. Thank you very much.

- 9 - Transcribed by an automated process. Fernanda Perrone 45:35 Thanks for coming, everyone. Thank you. Thanks, Fernanda. Welcome, Dubai. Fernanda, yeah, thank you. Very well. Thank you, Fernanda. You're welcome.

Sonia Yaco 46:00 Thank you, Angela, for joining us. Thank you, everyone. And I turn off the recording now.

Fernanda Perrone 46:15 Well, thank you for hosting

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