Queensland
Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]
Legislative Assembly
WEDNESDAY, 25 NOVEMBER 1942
Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy
1356 Local Government Act8 and [ASSEMBLY.] Another Act Amendment Bill.
by the Secretary for Public 'Vorks and con gratulate the hon. gentleman on the consoli dating provisions in it. Hon. members, gener ally will be very pleased at the appointment of Mr. Chuter as Director of Local Govern ment. The Opposition have suggested that Mr. Chuter was to be a sort of director to control and do things that shires did not like, but I suggest to them that they also look at it from the viewpoint that Mr. Chuter is virtually an Under Secretary of that depart ment and will not usmp any power to 1vhich he is not entitled. Everybody who knows him well, especially hon. members, knows perfectly well that he is always able and willing to give them help on any matter per taining to municipalities or shires in their elcctora tes. One of the points raised by the Opposition has been that it is unwise to give shire coun cils or municipalities power to, increase rates from ls. to ls. 6d. in the £1. As a matter of fact, that increased power has been advo cated. On behalf of the Maryborough City Council I have made numerous representa tions that such a provision be incorporated in a measure such as this. One must remem WEDNESDAY, 25 NOVEMBER, 1942. ber that it is not competent and should not be competent for a local authority to make profits out of an undertaking ancl give the Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. E. J. Hanson, benefit to the ratepayers, who probably have Burunda) took the chair at 11 a.m. had nothing to do with that undertaking or contributed towards it, by using the profit in QUESTION. building roads or doing similar work. For instance, when the council at Maryborough MR. c. G. JESSON, M.L.A., AND CAIRNS decides on an electricity tariff they usually BY-ELECTION. bear in mind the need for budgeting for a Mr. YEATES (East Toowoomba) for lir. surplus, and that surplus if it is reaJised is J. J<'. BARNES (Bundaberg), asked the transfened to the general fund, and in turn Secretary for Health and Home Affairs- is used for, say, road construction. More over, \Yh0n the maximum of ls. in the £1 was '' In connection with the conveyance of fixed, money values were very different from Mr. C. G. J esson, hon. member for the what they are to-day. At that time 1s. repre electoral district of Kennedy, by police car sented much more than it does to-day. This from Townsville to Cairns and return, will provision \Yill enable municipalities and shires he state-(a) the names of tho policemen to make every undertaking, such as water, and the number of cars used; (b) from sewerage, and electricity stand on its own feet, where each car started and when it as it were. There is no necessity for a local returned; (c) the nature of the policemen's authority to charge ls. 6d. in the £1 if it does duties~" not want to, but the power is to be given to The SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND it to go to the maximum. My knowledge HO~IE AFFAIRS (Hon. E. M. Hanlon of local-authority work ancl those associated Ithaca) replied- ' with it, especially members of councils, is that they do not wish to raise rates. Hon. ''At the present time, members of the members need have no fear of that. Police Force,, in addition to ordinary police duties, are engaged on many matters con· lUr. }!aber: But the tendency will be to nected with the internal security of the get up to the 1s. 6d. and then ask for 2s. Commonwealth. The names of offkers so in the £1. employed, together with the nature of their J.Ur. F ARRELL: I doubt very much duties, cannot be disclosed.'' whether they would have that in mind at all. People do not object to paying for service. I have yet to learn that one can get LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACTS AND anything out of life for nothing, a.nd anyone ANOTHER ACT AMENDMENT BILL. who wants to get anything out of local· SECOND READING-RESUMPTION OF DEBATE. authority work without paying for it is very Debate resumed from 24 November (see foolish, indeed. One of the fundamental p. 1356) on Mr. Bruce 's motion- principles of local-government work is to give service to the community. " That the Bill be now read a second time.'' Mr. ~Iaher: You know what happened at Innisfail. Mr. F ARR,ELL (Maryborough) (11.3 IUr. F ARRELL: I am not concerned a.m.): I support the measure brought down about what happened there; I am only Local Government Acts and [25 NoVEMBER.] Another Act Amendment Bill. 1357
q.uoting my own experience as the rep·esenta in his opmwn there should be one valuer hve of l\Iaryborough who has been associated for the .,~hole of Queensland. I think that with the Burrum Shire Council and the Marv if the Government see fit on some futuTe borough City Council. I doubt whether a1~Y occasion to bring down a measure providing t?v:rn ii~ the State has a greater sense of for this reform, it will have the support of CIVlC pnde than Maryborough. Immediately the whole of the people of the State. lf upon entering that town, one can see how valuing can be standardised, just as auditing much the council think of their city. One has been, a great service will be rendered of their chief aims is to give service to the to the people. people. ~Ir. Luckins: Is that for taxation p·ur One is often unduly influenced by the thouaht poses, too, or for rating purposes only~ that local authorities are charain()' so m~ch as rates on properties. That is'" n;'t so. The rates to be chaTged are set down at a certain Jir. J<'ARRELL: For rating purposes. I figure, and all levies above that are for such am not suggesting that an officel' of the Brisbane City Council who may be employed ~ervices as the surfacing of roads, the Improvement of footpaths by laying down for the purpose of making valua tions should s!nps of concrete, and .the sewerage, electric be deprived of that position, but the Act hght, and water services enjoyed by the should provide that such oHicers may be people. In my opinion the Government are employed by a local authority for that pur d.oing the. right thing in giving local authori pose. At Maryborough one of the clerks carries out valuations, but his time is not ~Ies the nght to increase rates up to 1s. 6d. m the £1, for this should enable all local devoted entirely to that vYork. I believe the authorities to pnt their various undertakings position in this respect would 'be improved on a sound footing so that they may be if there was a valuer for the whole State. operated to the advantage of the ratepayers. 'l'hose arguments can be more appropriately In Maryborough we have two companies advanced in connection with proposals to Walkers Limited and Wilson Hart and Com: establish greater municipalities and cities. I pany Limited, both of which O'enerate their am not going to expand the argument now own electricity. They, of cours~, are entitled because it would not be an advantage i~ to any surplus that may be derived from Yiew of the indication by the Minister that the electricity section of their businesses the he does 11ot propose to make any alteration surplu.s ,that in .t~e case of the Marybor~ugh of the kind until the war is ovel'. I think Counml s electncity undertaking is genemlly that is a wise pronouncement. However I used for road construction in Maryborough. believe it would be in the public inte;est ~ suppose. hon .. members can quote similar to establish greater municipalities and shires mstances m thmr electorates. For instance, but that will probably have to be done by ho~ much ~evenue is being derived by the the introduction of special measures. Bnsbane. City C~uncil from its electricity undertakmg and Its tram>Yays m1d used for I have nothing more to say at present but services from which the whole of the people I may .find it necessary to make fu;·ther observations on a later stage of the Bill. derive a benefit~ From my knowledge of aldermen and }lr. LUCKIKS (Maree) 11.15): This Bill councillors, generally, I am satisfied that they has given considerable concern to local are not going to strike a rate of 1s. 6d. in authorities and the people associated with the £1 if they find that 1s. 3d. in the £1 is them. For some years now the tendencv of all they need, but they should have the riO'ht the Government has been to appoint piiblic to go up t~ 1s. 6d. if. by doing so they ~an servants to positions with power directly put all theu undertakmgs on a solid basis opposed to the democratic control by local and make each self-reliant. ' authorities. I regret to say that the Govern Clause 17 of the Bill simplifies the pro ment have been thus filching away the rights of the people. While I admit that the Minis ced~re to be adopted in the taking over or selhng of land by a local authority. Any ter in charge of local government should one .who has been interested in local-authority have ample power to direct local authDTities and investigate their administration I can ~ffaus knows the expenditure that must be mcurred before any land can be either taken not agree with the appointment of a Director over or sold by a council. Under the exist of Local Government, because, in my opinion, ing law, the local authority must first adver such an institution will conflict with the tise three times in the "Government Gazette" rights of the duly elected representatives of and three times in the local or any other the people. ThP Bill contains very far paper. Under. this Bill it is proposed that reaching proposals, especially that giving a It need advertise only once in the ''Govern single person authority over bodies elected ment Gazette'' and once in the local paper. by the people. That comes very near to There are other provisions dealing with per interfering with democratic rights. The sons whose addresses become unknown Government have been prone to appoint boards because they have left the district or and directors in many departments of State for some other reason; and I shall deal 'with whereas such power should be vested in a those later. Minister and Parliament, so that Parliament may make laws for the good government of Another point that has been raised is the local authorities. I am very much concerned fact that it is proposed to give a council the a bout this tendency, and I should like the right to appoint an employee as valuator. Minister to give us a full and frank outline I was pleased to hear the Minister say that of the powers conferred upon the Director 1358 JAcal Government Acts and [ASSEMBLY.] Another Act Amendment Bill.
and the powers that may hereafter be con Mr. LUCKINS: I know that is a debat ferred on him by regulations. The regula able point with some people, but the respon tions, which may be adopted when Parliament sibility for finding the money to pay the rate is in recess, may have very far-reaching effects falls upon the shoulders not of the occupier, upon the welfare of the community. but of the property owner. Therefore, we must give some consideration to that section I propose to touch upon a very tender subj'3ct so far as the Government are con of the people when we are considering such a Bill as this, empowering a local authority cerned, that is, to ask whether the Minister to increase the rate to ls. 6d. in the £1. and the Director will have power to direct a The new maximum is equivalent to a charge local authority to carry out its work by day of 7t per cent. on the capital value of land. labour instead of by calling tenders. Our local authorities are doing a wonderful M,r. Collins: With the consent of the work and the time is fast approaching when local authority. they may take over some of the present func tions of government. The Brisbane City Mr. LUCKINS: The consent of the local Council has proved that it can carry out authority can be avoided by the Minister or work more cheaply than the Government under Director, because if the local authority has their day-labour system. An inquiry should to borrow for the purpose it must first obtain be held into the two systems to see what is the consent of the Government. At Bunda best, not only from a community point of berg and in many other local authority areas view, but from the point of view of those the Government tried to impose their policy who are called upon to find the money. No upon the elected representatives of the people. power should be vested in a Government I know it has been tried with the Brisbane enabling them to introduce through a director City Council, but there has always been a a policy, such as day labour, that is opposed marked difference in the cost of work done to the will of the elected representatives of by day labour and that done by contract. the people. I only ask hon. members to consider this matter from the point of view of economics. Mr. THEODORE (Herbert) (11.23 a.m.): It has been proved, both in the Department I want at the outset to commend the of Public Instruction and the Department of Minister for introducing this Bill. It is an Public Works, that work undertaken on the essential measure and long overdue. I base day-labour principle has proved more costly my opinions on observations of the difficulties than work carried out by private enterprise. facing some local authorities in North After all, the people are entitled to all the Queensland. protection their representatives can give Mr. Mahe,r: Through reckless expendi them, and these representatives should formu· ture. late their policy. I strongly oppose the dele gation of any authority to a civil servant to Mr. THEODORE: Not at all. The obliga override the policy of the elected representa tions of shire councils could not be greater tives of the people. I am opposed to giving in any part of Queensland than those imposed civil servants any greater power than the on the two shires in my electorate-Johnstone servants of the community and to their being and Cardwell. placed in a position that will make them the Mr. Maher: Through mismanagement masters of the community. I have nothing and reckless expenditure. but the highest regard for Mr. Chuter person ally-he has proved his worth as a student Mr. THEODORE: Some persons. may say of local government-but I am opposed to the that the position is the result of mismanage Government's delegating powers even to him ment. The expenditure they undertook was that will have a far-reaching effect on the necessary because the determination and enter community's welfare. I wm fight that prin prise of the representatives of the people ciple to the bitter end. there impelled them to do work that was essential to the progress of their areas. I have my own opinion about this Bill. I believe it to be the forerunner of very Mr. Maher: It was to make t:he farmers important pr!'lposals to enable the Government pay for town aggrandisement. to take control not only of local governing Mr. THE OD ORE: The expenditure bodies but the Brisbane City Council, too. incurred was as much for the benefit of the The Brisbane City Council in the last year or farmers as anyone else. so has proved itself by its very effective administration as a self-controlled body. It When I first went to the North 20 years has earned the good will and respect of hon. ago I thought it was the most impossible members not only on this side of the House place I had ever seen. It was very backward, but on the Government side also. It would compared with other parts of Australia. be fatal to the good government of our local There were no roads and no other facilities for authorities should the Government delegate getting about. It was very difficult for any authority to a civil servant to interfere in one engaged in any undertaking, whether a any way with their policy or direct repre business or a farm, to do business. It was sentatives elected by the people to carry out owing to the courage and determination of their will. It is only property owners who the people who took the bull by the horns and are compelled to pay rates; others are not said, ''We must have decent facilities for the affected in any way. people if we want to see progress made in our area,'' that improvements were effected. Mr. Power: Anyone who pays rent pays That is what they did; nothing more and rates. I nothing less. They were determined to have Local Government Aets and [25 NovEMBER.] AIWther Act Amendment Bill. 1359
roads built. When I :first arrived there the like that. There is always a check, however. manager of one of the sugar mills met me My experience has been that there is always soon after my arrival and he said to me, someone on the council who will keep a check ''\Vell, you have come to very difficult on reckless expenditure. country and if you take my advic0 you will go down to the Tully or somewhere else, JUr. Luckins: They have to budget. because there is a possibility that after a ll'Ir. TIIEODORE: A budget has to be few years you will get roads there, whereas submitted, and that is a wise safeguard. it looks as if we should never have decent There is no danger of reckless or extravagant roads in this area.'' It was not many years expenditure. after that, through the consideration of the Labour Government, that roads were built. Jlir. Maher: Why are we required to When the shire councils explained to the validate the actions of these local-governing Government what they wanted they were met bodies~ with sympathy. In effect, they said to the Iiir. THEODORE: In the case of the Government, "It is a big job an cl it 'vill J ohnstone Shire Council, to which I have require a good deal of money, but we want to referred,. it was necessary to spend money to do it,'' and the Government said, ''\Ye will do work that conditions demanded be done. help you.'' The council said, ''If you do, wo will carry out the work.'' and they did it. The Secretary for Public Lands: The That is the reason why they found themselves Brisbane City Council has been doing that, in difficulties-they found the maximum was too. insufficient to med their requirements. Although they were confronted with many ll'Ir. Luckins: In an emergency. problems. they overcame them; and the mis Mr. THEODORE: Other councils are in management that has been attributed to them a shnilar position at times. simply does not exit~t. 'rhcse men have done their utmost to give the best service they With regard to the opposition always could to the people with the money available directed against day labour, I would point out to them. You will see no greater progress that some of the best work done in these made anywhere in this State than that made shires has been canied out under that system. in the Innisfail and Tully districts. The It has been my experience, when I have Tully area is the smaller one and it 1vas much taken part in representations made to the easier to carry out the work there. They did Government for loans to carry out works, that a good job. I am proud to say that I took the Government are concerned about seeing some part in it. I was a member of the Card that the greatest possible advantage is well Shire Council for a couple of terms, and obtained from the expenditure of that money. certain suggestions were made that we put The Bill will be appreciated and will enable down a short strip of permanent road councils to cany out their work without macadamised or bitumen; but I opposed it on having to go through a protracted and round the ground that we could not ignore the about process in raising funds in a wa.Y for people who were living at a distance from which the present system does not prov1de. the town and the mill, and that they must ll'Ir. MAHER (West Moreton) (11.33 have roads. I advocated cheaper roads and a.m.): I observe that the Government pr?pose more of them in order to give a service to under this Bill to take power to appomt a the people. My suggestion was accepted and Director of Local Government, and we have it has proved a great success. The council is been informed that the mantle of honour will now extending the more permanent roads as fall on Mr. C. E. Chuter. I have known Mr. funds and conditions P'ermit. This Bill will Chuter for a long time and have the utmost enable progressive shire councils to carry out confidence in his ability. With the fund of necessary work in the interests of the people. knowledge he undoubtedly possesses of local Recently, we had representations from the government work nobody likely to be selected J ohnstone Shire Council for power to levy to fill the post c~uld do greater justice to it. another 3d. in the £1 because they were unable to do this with the resources at The Secretary for Public Lands: He got present available to them. This Bill will a bit of a bashing during the time of the provide for that. Moore Government, you know. In Mr. Chuter the local authorities will ll'Ir. I\IAHER: I do not know. I am not have the best of guidance, and there will be delving into past history, and all public ser absolute satisfaction under his control. vants who undertake responsible duties and As to the suggestion of the hon. member high executive tasks must, in the very nature for West Moreton that shire councils are of things, sometimes conflict with the Govern· likely to exceed the proposed maximum of ment. I like to see a man who has the back 1s. 6d. and go to 2s. or 3s., I do not think bone and the courage to dispute vvith a there is any ground for fear. The people Minister or the Government sometimes and would not tolerate exorbitant expenditure. stand up for his rights. If I were a Minister and an executive officer under my control 1Ir. ll'Iaher: But if reckless councillors stood up to me and said that the course of or aldermen run the shire into debt, the action I proposed to follow was wrong, I people have to submit. should respect him. Mr. THEODORE: You may have The Secretary for Public Lands: I think instances in which very ambitious men get in Mr. Chuter 's case it was a case of con on a council and attempt to do something flicting with interests outside the Government. 1360 Local Government Ar-ts and [ASSE::VIBL Y.] Another Act Amwdment Bill.
lUr. MAHER: The public officer enjoying officers of the State. We should not lose high executive rank whom I dislike is the the ministerial touch. vV e should not lose panderer, the "yes" man, the obsequious man conb·ol through Parliament or our power to who is ready to fall in with everything the govern through the Minister, with the officers Minist·er or Government propose. If Mr. \Yho are called upon to direct and administer Chuter had differences with the Moore Govern important Departments of State. ment, I do not know the circumstances. The Secretary for Public Lands: Then Tlle Secretary for Public Lands: Not you would be complaining about political with the Moo re Government; with outside control. interests. lUr. JliAHER: Political control is essen TI'Ir. SPEAKER: Order! tial, but in saying that I do not mean poli tical interference. 'rhere is no democracy if liir. liiAHER: I would not hold that there is no political control. If the Govern against him at all. In fact, it might be to ment are going to set up corporate bodies with his credit if the facts were know11. At any tremendous power but without being answer rsJe, in my opinion, from my observations of Mr. Chuter, he is the best officer available to able to Parliament, we might as well fall in with the Nazi's Socialistic idea and become fill this position,. although I must say his appointment to this office appears to me some followers of the Dictators. We take pride in what of a departure from democratic prin our democratic institutions. We are fighting ciples, an ext•ension of the powers of bureau for democracy in this great world struggle. cracy; and there has been too much of that Let us see that we do not, under the guise of in recent times. More and more there has democracy, set up bureaucracy and semi been a tendency for the Government to ·engage government dictatorship. in processes of devolution, to delegate power The Director will have important duties a\Yay from the Government and from Parlia to perform in terms of this Bill. He will ment and repose it in the hands of what I have the task of administering all the local term ''Bureaucrats,'' and the elected repre government services throughout the State, sentatives of the people find it increasingly and that is a big job. difficult to move these bureaucrats, some of 'rile Seeretary for Publ'ic Lands : The ~whom are endowed by statute with extra ordinary powers, given corporate powers, a Commiosioner for Railways has that, too. seal, and a whole lot of pompous titles and ~Ir. 3IAHER: Admittedly. references; and surrounded by all this pomp and ceremony, these men assume dictatorial ]}Ir, CoHins: He is subject to the Minister. power and it is very difficult, indeed, for the 1\Ir• .IllAHER: No doubt he is, but at the elected representatives of the people to induce same time I feel justified in making the obser them to look at matters in a reasonable way. vations that I did. One o·f the risks-and \Vhat better example could you have than the this differs somewhat from the position of position of the Commonwealth Prices Commis the Commissioner for Railways-is the very sionerW dangProus power in this Bill that gives the The Secretary for Health and Home Governor in Council the right to rescind or Affairs: I should like an interpretation of suspend any resolution of a local governing the word ''reasonable.'' body. If the Director of Local Government were to recommend to the Governor in Council Mr. ll'IAHER: The view of the majority that that power be exercised to rescind a of the people may be taken to be reasonable resolution of a local govmning authority, -within the bounds of reason. I hold what is that tantamount to~ It means that as an example that the action of the Common the resolution of a 1Jody that derives its power wealth Prices Commissioner, supp01·ted by from the ratepayers and the people in a given the Prices Branch in Brisbane, is um·eason district would be overridden by the Governor able when he decides to fix a maximum price in Council, and there is no democracy about for primary products such as onions and that. denies to the producer the right to benefit Mr. CoUins: If the council falls down on from the market when it is high and fails its obligations, do the Government not have to give him a minimum price to protect him to take the responsibility~ against a drop in the market, yet the elected representatives of the people have no power 1\Ir. 3IAHER: Could there not be a pro whatsoever over the bureaucrat concerned. viso to the effect that this power shall apply We delegate the powers of control over only where the local governing body has these high public offices away from the fallen down on the job~ people's representatives. There is no reason Mr. Collins: But it is too late then. in it and it is not democratic. Far from that, it could become tyrannical, and whilst lUr. lUAHER: Is it too late then? that would be an extreme suggestion to 1\Ir. Collins: Yes, because the act has make in respect of the Director of Local been done. Government-I do not for a moment suggest that such powers will devolve upon Mr. Chuter Mr. Nimmo: Tell us of one case in which in his capacity as Director of Local Govern that has ever happened. ment-I do feel justified in drawing attention Mr. Collins: In due time. to the fact that Parliaments themselves, and Governments, are too much inclined to delegate lUr. MAHER: I know of many cases of Parliament's powers to high-ranking unelected reckless expenditure and mismanagement by Local Government Acts and [25 NovEMBER.] Another Act Amendment Bill. 1361 loc&l governing bodies, but I have never come to political interference. A defeated politi up against a case where the Government cal party might try to move the Minister to would be justified in rescinding a resolution use that power against the successful politi of such a body. Extraordinary resolutions cal party so as to defeat the decision of the haye been adopted, oome that I ·would oppose majority of the councillors who were elected myself, but if they arg carried by the majority by the majority of the people. of the elected represontatives of the people The Secretary for Health and Home I do not see that 2.ny other authority is Affairs: The power of veto has been in the entitled to rescind them. After all, such Act for 40 years. Can you give an instance elected representatives would in those circum in which it was wrongly used~ stances become mere vassals. What an outcry and clamour would be raised if the Common :ilir. MAHER: The power of veto is dif wealth Governmm1t, under the National ferent from the provision in the Bill, ·which Security Regulations, sought to take the says- right to rescind any motion that was carried by a majority of hon. members in this Par '' The Governor in Council may at any time- limnent? ( a) Suspend or rescind any resolution '!'he Secretary for Healtll and Home or order of a local authority; Affairs: That is different. The State Par liament is not the creation of the Common andjor we::~lth Government, whereas the local autho (b) Prohibit the expenditure of any rities are the creation of this Parliament. moneys from the general or any other fund upon any work which )Ir. 3IAH1~R: This Parliament derives he deems unnecessary or which its power from the people, and the people will, in his opinion, impose undue would feel that they were bound hand and burdens upon the inhabitants of foot if there was a provision hanging over the area or any division there. '' them like the sword of Damocles which could be exercised by the Commonwealth to rescind If that power is to be exercised in that way, any resolution or motion passed by this Par why is it necessary to include a provision to liament. validate the actions of the shires of Belyando, Ilfracombe, and the others'] The Secretary for Health and Home Affairs: vVe have often had to veto resolu The Sec:retary for Health and Home tions carried by councils. vV e have had to Affairs: Because they acted illegally with veto resolutions carried by the Brisbane City out the Government's being av•·are of what Council. thBy were doing. lUr. JUAHER: In what circumstances Mr. lUAHER: Are they not obliged under would the hon. gentleman say they were the Act to budget for their expenditure, and rescinded or vetoed~ must not a budget be approved by the Minister~ If a budget was outside the Act Tl1e Secretary for Health and Home why was it not vetoed~ That would be a Affairs: In the interests of the community. just cause for the exBrcise of the powBr of Mr. 3IAHER: It is a very grave depar veto because the council was doing some ture from the principles of democracy. thing illegal, but under the Bill the Governor in Council would act very largely upon the Tlle Secretary for Health and Home recommendation of the Director of Local Affairs: That power was always contained in the Act, and why was it in the Act if it GoYernment. The Governor in Council is to haYe power to suspend or rescind any resolu was not contemplated that it would be used~ tion or prohibit expenditure that the majority Mr. ThiAHER: I know it is in the principal of the council deem to be necessary. I do Act. not think the Governor in Council should 'l'he Secretary for Health and Home have that power. It is a matter that should Affairs: The Government vetoed the pro be left entirely in the hands of the local posed action of the Brisbane City Council to authority, but if it acts in a reckless way it dump sewage into the river. You remember should be dissolved or otherwise penalised. that. That was in the public interest. Mr. Collins: That would mean penalising the people after the wrong act had been Mr. MAHER: I do not know the circum committed. stances. The Secretary for Health and Home Mr. lUAHER: The council could be penal Affairs: It was not acting in the public ised if it acted unlawfully or in a reckless interest. way, or it could bB dissolved. I should not object to that power at all, but the Bill }Ir. MAHER: It is understandable that permits of the meddlesome interference by the Government should have the power of the Governor in Council in the domestic dissolution. This Parliament has given the affairs of the local authorities, and that power charter of self-government to municipalities, would be exercisable by the Director of Local and so it should have the power to dissolve Government. I have a feeling that Mr. them, but there is a difference between the Chuter in his new office would be loth to dissolution of a council and the rescinding use a power of that kind, but nobody can of resolutions. The latter could develop into tell what might be forced upon him by the meddlesome interference with the domestic Government. This Government havB done affairs of a local authority. It could amount some strange things. 1362 Local Government Acts and [ASSEMBLY.] A1wther Act Amendment Bill.
JUr. Theodore: You said that the Govern excessive rates to finance costly and unnec2s ment would not have anything to do with sary undertakings that went to adorn the handing powers over to the Director. town of Innisfail. ~fr. lUAHER: I admit that the Minister The Secretary for Pu!Jlic Lands: The will still have some control, but he would ratepayers can demand a poll on any proposed largely act on the Director-General's recom loan. mendations, just as the Ministers affected ~Ir. liiAHER: That is so, but I know a rely on the recommendations of the Commis city hall wns built at Innisfail, that an error sioner of Main Roads and the Commissioner occurred in its constmction, and, in conse for Railways. I feel justified in bringing quence very great cost fell on the farmers that matter under the notice of the House, and rdtepayers generally in Innisfail owing be ea use the Director will have very full and to the mismanagement and maladministration wide po1vers in the control of local governing of the council. These things are past and bodies, including the Brisbane City Council. are a matter of history, but the fact remains No hon. member can tell how far the Govern that where a town is included, in a shire the ment intend that the Director should exercise tendency is for a majority of townsmen to some of the extreme powers contained in this secure election to the local governing body Bill. If it were left to Mr. Chuter 's own and outvote the representatives of the rural personal judgment, we could rest easy, but areas. The result is that they frequently there is no certainty that it will and that neglect the requirements of the rural areas, he might not be asked to do things in the while they spend money to the advantage administration of the Local Government Act of the town. I remember that was so some that were contrary to his own judgment. years ago in the Paroo Shire Council at One of the principles I object to most Ounnamulla. The majority of the men elected strongly is that relating to the increase in to the council lived in the town of Cunna thf' maximum rate from ls. to ls. 6d. It mulla, and the outside area-and it was a very looks to me as if this provision were included big area-was represented by a minority of to cover the requirements of the bodies speci the council; 1vhereupon the majority of coun fically referred to in the Bill-namely, the cillors took advantage of the situation to city of Ipswich, the city of Charters Towers, spend the bulk of the revenues of the shire and the shires of Belyando, Ilfracombe, Big upon the township of Cunnamulla itself. gemlen, Atherton, and Tambo. These bodies have exceeded their budget and their obliga The Secretary for Public Lands: How tions are such that they are unable to finance many representatives did the town area have~ them within the present limit of ls. in the £1. Mr. ~IAHER: I have forgotten the exact The Government have found it necessary to number now. I remember there was a accommodate thege councils by increasing the majority representing the town and what I maximum rate to ls. 6d. in the £1. The have stated actually happened, and it led to position should have been dealt with by the friction and ill-feeling in the shire; and it Government. They should not haYe been was not until there were changes in the allowed to outrun the constable and create personnel of the council that the position was the position that has arisen. Because they rectified and a better spiTit began to prevail. are culpable, is that any reason why we Therefore, I urge and at a later stage I hope should lift the maximum rate for everv other to move an amendment to ensure that the local authority? vVhy not confine the i;1crease increase in the maximum rate from ls. to to the five or six that are culpable~ ls. 6d. be confined to those bodies that are The Secretary for Health and Home at fault and are specifically mentioned in Affairs: In short, you think rhere should the clause validating their acts. That would be a separate Local Government Act for enable these specific bodies to have the each shire1 advantage of the maximum rate, but it will not give the same opportunity to others that, JU,r. lUAHER: The Government have so far, have lived within their means and given special concessions to those local autho who have been able to finance themselves on rities that have erred. That should not call the maximum of ls., to increase their expen for any Act to increase the maximum rate diture to such a point 'that hereafter it will for all other bodies. The effect will be to be necessary to raise their rate up to ls. 6d. encourage reckless expenditure by many other in the £1. local authorities and without doubt before many years pass it will be found that the It is urged that the ratepayers will exercise new maximum will have become the minimum. control over recklessness of this kind, but, It is an encouragement to councillors in as I said, the position in some local autho certain areas to be reckless with the funds rities is that the revenue from the ratepayers under their control. We have many examples who live in the city or town area is small of that. I realise the position in which the anc1 the bulk of the rates are derived from hon. member for Herbert is placed, and the the rurai areas, but the majority of those difficulty he has in admitting any fault in the in the council belong to the town and are local governing bodies in the district he repre therefore quite reckless because the respon sents, nevertheless any unprejudiced observer sibility for payment does not rest so much will say that there was a time in the affairs upon the town as upon the country. Later of the J ohnstone Shire Council when there on they may have no hesitation in passing was a great deal of recklessness, maladminis the maximum of 18d. and forcing expenditure tration, and mismanagment. The result was up to a new maximum of 2s. and then coming that the farmers were called upon to pay to the Minister and asking for indulgence- Local Government Acts and [25 NovEMBER.] Another Act Amendment Bill. 1363
asking for the validation of their acts by an Mr. Brown: Why not abolish divisions amending Bill. I think we should handle altogether, then~ these matters with a great deal of care and with a sense of responsi'bility. If Parlia li'Ir. ~IAHER: That brings one up against ment says the maximum rate is ls. it should the same problem. If one end of a large be altered only in exceptional circumstances. shire gets the advantage of road construc One shilling is a very high rate, and those tion and the other one does not, why expect who have to pay 18d. in the £1 will be pay the other encl to pay the benefits that have ing an excessive rate. Nor is there any assur been afforded to the remote part of the ance that it will stay at 18d. The tendency shire~ If the work were equally divided is for local governing bodies to spend freely, over the whole shire there might be some to outrun the constable, and to show in some merit in the interjection of the hon. mem instances a disregard for the rights of the ber for Logan, but at Taroom £70,000 was people who have to find the mone;v. expended at one end, as they harl the pre ponderance of voting strength-three coun There is another feature in the Bill to cillors and the chairman in No. 2 and only which I wish to make reference, the clause two councillors in No. 1. Under this pro authorising the Governor in Council to vision those in No. 1 division, and remote abolish benefited areas and impose a special from where this 'rork was carried out, could rate upon the whole area. This can be very be called on to meet the cost of the work unfair. In the Taroom shire, for example, from which they derived no advantage what there are only two divisions-No. 1 and No. 2 ever. -No. 2 division sends three councillors plus Tile Secretary for Public Lands: What a chairman; and there are only two coun division are you in~ cillors from No. 1 division. The council borrowed £70,000 for permanent works, mostly Mr. ThiAHER: It does not matter; it is Public Estate Improvement roads, and this not right. We are in No. 1, therefore we was wholly expended in No. 2 division. contribute to the cost of the works of No. 2. I give that only as an instance, not A Government li'Iember: A rural area? because of any personal consideration, but ]}lr. MAHER: A rural area. In No. 1 because it happened to come under my dhision only £2,000 was expended on per notice. manent works. It is quite unfair to expect The Secretary for Public Lands: You those who live in No. 1 division and who have some good roads going to your place. derive no benpfit whatever from the Public Estate Improvement Toads that JUr. lUAHER: I should like the Minister intersect No. 2 division and are remote to come to our property in a motor car with from No. 1 division to pay for the out shock-absorbers. The physical exercise of construction of those roads. It appears to bumping oYer the rough roads would do him me very unjust in principle to expect the rate good. payers in No. 1 to meet the special rate to Tile Secretary for Public Lands: I was cover the benefits that have been conferred not very far from your property on my visit on No. 2, but this Bill takes special po\ver out there. to impose a special rate over the whole of the shire even though only one division lUr. lUAHER: I am sorry the Minister obtains the benefit. I oppose that principle. did not pay us a visit. The next time he It is unsound and unjust. That is really visits the district I shall be glad to pilot the reason why divisions were first sought him out because he will need piloting over ancl obtained in local government work. the rough roads. I object in principle to Divisions were asked for so that one division that provision. It is not fair that a special would not have advantages over another. rate should be imposed on the whole area, This Bill cuts right across the ideas of the that benefited areas should be abolished. men engaged in the work of the local authori Power to do this is taken in the Bill. ties. If the Minister was living in a division The next principle that seems to call for of a shire in which no work from loan funds some opposition is that which enables a was done, and another division of the shil:e, council to charge all divisions of a shire for perhaps 40 miles or 50 miles distant from the cost of the construction of air-raid his residence, had £70,000 spent on work, shelters in one. It could happen that air would he enjoy contributing to the cost of raid shelters would be built only in the towns, that work~ and quite often those works are undertaken ~Ir. Collins: There is nothing to suggest against the weight of common sense. There that that will be clone. are builders and contractors in the town who want to get work from the shire, and often Mr. lUAHER: My word, there is. The this would be given in towns where there was Bill takes power to abolish benefited areas only a negligible risk of bombardment from ancl imposes a special rate upon the whole the air. If the councillors, in their wisdom, area. decide to erect shelters in such places, again ~Ir. CoHins: It gives them power but it the cost must be spread over all tha divisions does not say they will use it unfairly. of the shire and not confined to the benefited li'Ir. MAHER: That is a rather feeble area. It is the same principle applied to answer. Why is the power taken, if it is another matter, ancl I object to it. not intended to exercise it~ Instances must Then thare is the repeal of the Water have occurred in which the Government Authorities Acts, 1891 to 1937. This is a thought it desirable to adopt this course. big change. The Water Authorities Act is 1364 Local Government Acts and [ASSEMBLY.] Another Act Amendment Bill. being completely repealed and henc~forth and greater enthusiasm displayed in, ]ocal water authorities and water areas w1ll be govmmnent elections than in national under tha Local Government Act direct. elections. The Secretary for Public Lands: Only Over a period of years the people l~fl:ve with Tespect to town water supply. realiseil what the services of local authonhes mean to them. In Queensland we had the JUr. JUAH.ER: It is a big change never Local Authorities Act of 1912, which clea!ly theless and no doubt it has some advan laid down the sphere of local-authonty tages. ' It will now be under the direct con activity. Almost r~ cry year since 19.12 ~:'r trol of the Director of Local Government. I liament amended it to remove some disability do not sec anvthing against that. It is that had been discovered or perhaps to make important to coi1centTate on tha provision of provision for a particular shire that wanted water in our country cities and towns. In a to uivc a service to its people. After a good State like this,, where there are great heat deal of consideration the Government deciiled and high evaporation, despite generous rain· that a >Yider charter should be given to fall in many places, it is important to provide local govenunent, and so the present Local weirs and dams and water generally for the Government Act was passed in 1936 to gwe needs of the people. Most of our countq local authoritieR power to make by-laws or cities and towns are growing, and it is neces ordinances for the good govCTnment, peace, sary for Parliament to look ahead, and no order, welfare, comfort, and protection of doubt when the war is over a great number the people in their areas in whatever way of men who return may be absorbed in con they thought necessary, so long as their actions stant 'emplovment on the construction of weirs and dams to water many of our towns and did not conflict with the la IYS of the State or the Commonwealth. The widest possible cities. powers were given to local authorities. But The Secretary for Public Lands: You at 110 tinK has the Government ever taken have an example of that in Gatton. its hand from the control of local govern ment. Local govenunent is the creation of .iUr. JUAHER: Quite so. I remember the day when the Minister without _Portfolio this Parliament, and the creator of local officially opened that scheme, and 1t stands government must exercise some control over to-day as something of great advantage to local government. We could not have a local the town of Gatton. Since water has been government comi11g into conflict with the provided many farmers of the surrounding State Government-that would be absurd district ~vho at one time went to 'foowoomba and we could not allow local government to and Ipswich to retire, now come in to the take precedence over the Govenunent or the town build homes and use the water to further Parliament of the State. The Governor in their' hobbies of' gardening and cultiv:>tion. Council has always exercised control over This helps to make the town sound, and It has local government, and Parliament has always dewloped considerably in consequence. The insisted on that principle. people of the town appreciate that scheme Local goYernment was one of the multi very much, indeed, and there is room for the tudinous activities controlled by the Under expansion of this policy in many parts of the Secretary to the Department for Health and State. I hope a progressive policy will be Home Affairs. The Government came to adopted by the Government when conditions recognise the importa.nce of local government become favourable for work of this kind. to the people, and they decided that it w~s a There are many provisions in the Bi~l that full-time activity for a competent and efficient are of a machinery nature and are desuable, responsible officer of the public service. Mr. but there are two or three principles to which Chuter, as Under Secretary to the Depart I have objected, and they should be resisted. ment of Health and Home Affairs, could give only a fraction of his time to loca~ The SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND government, but we believed that it was of HOME AFFAIRS (Hon. E. M. Hanlon, such great impoTtance and such a power for Ithar.
lllr. Maher: Not as long as t:he Brisbane local government, to give assistance and City Council acts within its charter. encouragement to local government to carry on its work in the interests of the people, The SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND and to encourage the electors to take an HOME AFFAIRS: No. But if a City Council interest in local government. ordinance conflicted with State law, look at the confusion that would ensue. What would The principle of validating the illegal the citizens do in sueh circumstances~ The actions of local authorities is not a new one. hon. member is straining his imagination to Under the old Local Authorities Act quite try to bolster up the weak case he made frequently some Act had to be validated that without having considered the laws of the was done in good faith but did not comply past. 'rhe hon. member's speech was one that with the letter of the law. When Parlia might well have been made by one who had ment passed the Local Government Act it just entered this Parliament. made stringent provision for budgeting and laid down the necessity for observing the Mr. Maber: Nonsense! The difference budget. We knew we were going to have is between passing a by-law and rescinding considerable difficulty in building up an a resolution. administration capable of handling the new The, SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND law thoroughly. The old councils had been HOME AFFAIRS: We did not pass the in the habit of striking a rate and doing by-law. We did not take power to pass the what they could with the money. Almost by-law. every council worked on an overdraft and Mr. Maher: The Brisbane City Council owed its total income to the bank before it does. You say you can rescind a by-law received it. It had considerable difficulty at passed by the council. the end of the year in making its incoming rates meet its liabilities to the bank. We The SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND decided to change that system and to put HOME AFFAIRS: The hon. gentleman is the financial affairs of local government trying to fool himself or he does not under bodies on a sound basis. I remind hon. stand the law. The power to rescind a members that the credit of the local autho resolution or veto has always, been in the rities was not good, because most of them Act, but we have not had the power to pro finished the year with an overdraft and even tect the people who are affected by the rescind when they got their rates they had not enough ing of a resolution or the exereise of the to pay off their overdraft. As hon. members power of veto. What is going into this know, anybody who is always in debt with the Act is what we put into the City of Brisbane bank has not good credit. 'l'he same thing Act in a previous session to protect the applied to our Iocal authorities; their credit citizens or any person from any injustice was not good with the public or the lending that may arise as a result of the act bodies. Since it was essential that they the Government may veto. Hon. members should have an opportunity to get on with opposite raised no objection when it was constructive work it became essential to put in the City of Brisbane Act. At that restore their credit, and a system of budget time the reason for it was fresh in their ing was brought in and the obligation placed minds and they took no objection. During on local authorities to observe their budgets. the 10 years I have been in charge we have Arrangements were made to fund overdrafts had to rescind resolutions or veto by-laws or and put them in the position of a loan bearing ordinances of the Brisbane City Council or interest. local governing bodies' many times. On Mr. Luckinst: There are penalties one occasion we had, to exercise our right to attached to over-spending. dissolve the Mackay City Council. The hon. member has a queer sense of values when he Tile SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND says the power to dissolve is all right, but HOME AFFAIRS: Yes. That is what I not the powBr to veto a resolution. The dis want to point out. According to the hon. solution of a council is a far wider exercise member for West Moreton, this Bill is of power than the mere vetoing of a resolu attacking local authorities, it is going to tion of the council. deprive local authorities of thBir power. The fact that we have consistently validated the Mr. Maher interjected. mistakes made by local authorities shows that The SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND the Government do not injure the men who HOME AFFAIRS: The hon. member can are carrying on local government if it can not get away with that. No hon. member of be avoided. With our experience of the this Chamber will agree that the power to budgeting system, with our experienced and veto a resolution is too wide and that the highly-trained public service to keep our power to destroy a council is all right. We accounts, we might easily say, "Why don't have always had that power and we must these fellows do so and so~ What right have maintain it in the interests of the people. Hon. they to make a mistake~ ThBre are penalties members of this Parliament are charged with in the Act; let us apply the penalties in responsibility for the good government and the ordinary legal way.'' I was never willing welfare of the whole of the people of the to do that. The great majority of these State. They cannot hand over that authority men who give thBir services free on local to some subordinate authority that they them governing bodies are moved by the highest selves have created. The idea that it is possible patriotic and public service motives. extending bureaucracy is humbug. What the They give their time without reward and Bill proposes to do is to make the time and they get much abuse. They usually get very services of these officers available to aid the little thanks for their sacrifice of much of Local Government Acts and [25 NovEMBER.] Another Act Amendment Bill. 1367 their time and sometimes a good deal of their to readjust their methods of handling their personal cash in that service. Should we affairs. How much more difficult must it do them the injury of putting a heavy finan have been for those who had not that experi cial burden on them In some instances a ence~ It is very difficult for men who have heavy financial burden would send them not had much experience in local government insolvent. Many of these men are poor to carry out the law in its entirety without people. They may be workmen or farmers. making some mistake,. and the attitude of the I have always investigated thesA cases and Government has been that we believe that we have not as yet discovered a case in which local government is of importance to the they have gone wrong where we could impute people of the State and that local government any dishonest motive to them. can give a serviee the State Government can not give. 'vVe do not believe in centralised lUr. Luckins: No. government. We know the local affairs of The SEC~ETARY FOR HEALTH AND Central Queensland, North Queensland, or dis HOli'IE Al'FAIR.S: No. Would any hon. mem tricts inland differ from those in Brisbane, ber suggest that any member of a local and so we do not believe in centralised govern authority who has acted in good faith but in ment in domestic affairs. ignorance of the fact that he was committing Very well, having arrived at the stage that a breach of the Local Government Act should domestic affairs should be the responsibility be treated as a criminal~ I am sure none of us of th·e local people, we ask: how are we going would. \Ve circularise local authorities, town to give a service in these domestic affairs to clerks, and shire clerks, and, year after year, the people9 We give them a charter that as hon. members will recollect, I have brought enables them to do anything they think best down legislation to validat·e an illegal act of for the good government, happiness, order, some council or another that has, in good and welfare of their people. If it does not faith, departed from the provisions of the conflict with State or Commonwealth law, they law. The public service of Queensland has have the widest possible power to do what been built up over 70-odd years, and we can they think is right. Certain limitations are not expec.t in local-authority affairs to build put upon them. If they go astray, the up a trained staff in one or two vears-a Government of the clay have power of correc staff of clerks, officers,. and administrative tion. That is necessary. They have power officials who thoroughly understand local to veto anything they think is contrary to government and who are competent to advise public interest. Something may be done that the chairman of the council. Ministers of the is fraudulent. There may be charges of cor Crown have the advantage of a trained staff. ruption. Fortunately, corruption has very How many Ministers would not get off the rarely occurred in the public administration track, would not make serious blunders in of this State, but these things may happen, their department, if they had not trained and the Governor in Council then has the public servants round them to advise them at power to veto or rescind. any time when they have a new idea or are departing from old -established practice~ But the proof of the fact that the Bill is Ministers can call on trained advisers for not aimed at limiting the power of local advice when they want to do something the authorities but at encouraging them is the crea Government want done. They have trained tion of this new department to help them. public servants at their call, men of mature Again, as proof of the kindly interest of years who startBd in the public service as this Government, is the fact that year after boys, and who have been trained down year validating measures haye been introduced through the years in the art of government. to correct mistakes made by the local authori They are there as advisers to Ministers. I ties in good faith, quite contrary to the law, venture the opinion that if Ministers did not but made by men who are endeavouring to have the services of these advisers, they would serve a public interest and who have mis frequently get into difficulties, and I do not understood their position. That we a~e expect groups of farmers or workmen interested in successful local government 1s throughout the State to be able to have shown by the fact that we never hesitate to trained public servants, as it were, in their validate honest mistakes. I think the Bill own sphere of government in a year or so. will give to local government the impetus it Parliament must be patient with this very has needed badly in the past. important branch of government, and all encouragement and assistance must be given lllr. DART (Wynnum) (12.36 p.m.): While not only to the local authorities themselves there may be some provisions in the Bill but to the staff of every local authority in that will be of advantage to the country the State so that they can be trained, and, people, there are others that I think will from experience, build up to the standard of retard progress. I am disappointed to think efficiency we have in the public service that a Bill such as this was not mentioned departments, which has taken many years. in the Governor's Speech or was not brought down earlier in the session. Mr. Luck'ins: There are excellent men in municipalities well versed in local-authority Mr. Moore: What difference would that work. have made~ Tl1e SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND Mr. DART: Every hon. member would HOME AFJ<'AIRS: Yes, but the hon. mem have had an opportunity of speaking on it. ber fails to realise that many of them found To-day, because of the war and because 't difficult to adapt themselves to an entirely many of their sons are at the war, many 2ew system. Most of them found it difficult hon. members have returned to the country 1368 Local Government Acts and [ASSEMBLY.] Anoth~r Act Amendment Bill. to look after their properties, and conse lUr. Moore: And a Greater Wynnum. quently have not the opportunity of putting Mr. DART: We have the Greater up a fight in the interests of the coun~ry Wynnum now. It is part of Greater Bris people. By introducing this Bill in the dymg bane. There will be many charters like that hours of the session the Government are of Greater Brisbane. The creation of a denying justice to the people of Queensland. Greater Toowoomba or Greater Townsville I am a great believer in local-authority work. will mean the amalgamation of a number of I 19 was connected with it for years, and, shires and the abolition of others. I should having served on four councils, I claim to like to ask the Government whether the be qualified to testify to the good work that people in the outside areas are going to has been done by this activity of the Depart benefit by these greater cities. A few small ment of Health and Home Affairs. I am therefore unable to understand the reason shires may be absorbed by the Townsville for the change the Bill proposes to make. City Council, and some small shires may be The .Secretary for Health and Home Affairs absorbed by the Toowoomba City Council, did good work in connection with local but both Townsville and Toowoomba are cities at the present time. If the small authorities, and no doubt the Secretary for shires are to be abolished and the existing Public Works will do his part in this direc cities made larger thereby, will the new tion. Already he has equipped himself well greater cities understand the requirements of in connection with road construction. the people in the shires that have been Much has been said about the Director of absorbed~ If some shires are to be abolished Local Government. The prospective occupant it means that they must be amalgamated with of that position, Mr. Chuter, is well known existing local authorities, but I hope that the to all hon. members. I am sure he is held people in the areas to be abolished will oe in the greatest of respect, and his capability given full and fair consideration. If the is beyond doubt. He has proved that he has people in the areas proposed to be abolished made a careful study of local-authority work are opposed to the idea, why should the for many years. About 25 years ago I Minister persist with it merely because it is travelled over an area that was disputed by recommended by the Director of Local two local authorities-the Tarampa and the GovernmenH Some of the small areas may Laidley shires-accompanying Mr. Chuter, be undeveloped, but the people controlling who was making an inspection, and the fact them may have managed very well. How that his recommendation was accepted with ever, the Minister, not knowing their real out any comment by the two local authorities requirements, may accept the recommenda concerned, although its acceptance meant tion by the director to abolish these small adding to one area and taking something shires and include them in existing larger from the other, is conclusive proof of his ones. The new greater areas will operate ability to carry out his work efficiently. No under their charter in the same way as the one can doubt that he is capable of doing Greater Brisbane area is conducted under the the work that he will be called upon to do charter given to the Brisbane City Council. under this Bill. It has worked very satisfactorily in Bris One thing to which I object is a dele bane, but the interests of the people in the gation of great power to officers of the depart Greater Brisbane area are alike, but I am ment who will be doing work that really very doubtful whether the same will apply should be done by the Minister. Under this in outside areas where small shires are Bill the Director of Local Government will absorbed by existing cities. have to take the place of a commission, he The' Secretary for Public Works: The will have to exercise the duties of an inspec Greater Brisbane area took in a number of tor, and he will report to the Minister. To small shires, too. carry out these functions a new department must be set up. This must mean added Mr. DART: Yes, but I have pointed out expense to the Government and in turn to that their interests were alike. How will the people of Queensland. Perhaps it will these charters operate in country areas~ For be used as a place in which disappointed instance, there are some cities outside Bris politicians will be able to get jobs after the bane that have water supplies, sewerage, and next election. electricity. If the areas are amalgamated and a general rate is struck in respect ·of Mr. Devries: Are you speaking for your these services, will the man living 50 to 60 selH miles from the centre of the greater area Mr. DART: I am not concerned about be asked to contribute the same in rates myself; I am concerned about the taxes the when he does not enjoy these public facili people of Queensland might have to pay, and ties~ I was interested to hear the hon. mem about protecting their interests, and I am ber for Maryborough say that in Maryborough wondering whether local government will be the surplus in one department could not be conducted as well in the future as it has transferred to make up for a deficit in been in the past. another. The practice of transferring a surplus in one fund to meet the deficit in We are firm believers in the principle of another has worked very well in the Bris administration of domestic matters by local bane City Council. The Water Supply Depart people, who are most likely to achieve suc ment pays its way, but the sewerage section cess in this work. Just as we now have a does not, and if the Council had not been Gn'at~r Brisbane, I foresee a Greater Too able to transfer the surplus from one fund to '"""roba and ll, Qre'lter Townsville. another the sewerage fund would have been Local Government Acts and [25 NoVEMBER.] Another Act Amendment Bill. 1369
insolvent long ago. It is only by trans }lr. DART: I said I would not, notwith ferring the surplus in one fund to another standing that this Bill savours of dictation fund that the whole undertaking of local in one direction. It is not wise to pass an government can be successfully carried on. important Bill such as this at this stage of Indeed, the electricity section of the Bris the session. The Minister should reconsider bane City Council is the best paying of the the amount of the maximum rate. If, as has lot. been suggested, he will enact that each depart ment of a local authority shall be self }Ir. SPEAifER: Order! I have allowed supporting, it would be an improvement on hon. members a good deal of latitude in the present system. their discussion of the Bill-and it is one that permits of a great deal of latitude-but 1\Ir. YEATES (East Toowoomba) (12.53 there must be a limit to it. The Bill amends p.m.): This Bill in many ways is acceptable. the Local Government Act and another Act, 'l'he proposal to appoint a Director of Local but not the City of Brisbane Act. Government will be all right whilst Mr. Chuter occupies the position, but I :tm lUr. DART: You are quite right, Mr. wondering about the future. The 1936 Act Speaker, but I \\as simply making compari was a good one, even though this Govern sons, and I think I was justified in doing ment bronght it down. Presumably, that was that. There arc some provisions in the Bill because Mr. Chuter drafted it. It provides that are not in the best interests of the people for the principle of budgeting and its strict in the country. enforcement. That is what I believe in. It The Minister has given us to understand also holds members of local governing bodies that because some outside local authorities responsible for over-spending the budget. I have failed to live within the present maxi mu certainly in favour of that. I give llfr. mum rate of 1s. in the £1, it has become Chuter credit for all that. necessary to amend the law. If that is so, The separation of the water authorities is why should the whole of Queensland suffer~ perfectly justified. I had a cottage at South The Secretary for Health and Home Affairs port once, worse luck, and the water authority mentioned that the Government had validated bill used to come in separately from that for much that had been done in the past, to the rates-an absurd practice. Let them take make the position better for the local authori an example from Toowoomba, the best ties. 'rllC same principle is being adopted managed city in Queensland. Possibly South in this Bill. The shires that have over port has talked it over with Mr. Chuter and stepped the mark should be brought to book has added the water account to the rates-the and told they must obey the law. The Bris proper, businesslike way, which saves money; bane City Council is doing its work well. and that is the reason I advocate the amalga I am pleased that the Minister admitted mation of the State and Federal rolls. that, generally speaking, the work of local govemment has been done well. Why should I am not keen about these benefited areas. the new maximum rate apply to all local Take a shire council out at Carpentaria whose authorities just because a few have failed to area covers 600 square miles. Part of it may liYc within the law~ I agree with the hon. be swamp country and other parts may com member for West Moreton, who intimated prise ridges, fiats, mulga country, and ant that he intends at the Tight time to move hills; certain money has to be spent in drain an amendment to reduce the maximum rate. ing the swamp country to make it suitable The suggested maximum of 1s. Gd. in the £1 for grazing and fattening cattle; why should is exorbitant, and out of all reason. It is that cost be charged to the whole area~ That Yery difficult now to get people to live in the is my complaint. A small town may want country. If we make provision for a maxi special drainage and sewerage work carried mum rate of 1s. 6d. in thA £1 we shall not out and th0 cost may be charged to the whole get them to settle there at all. Not many area. That is unquestionably wrong. I have Bills help country settlers. It should be our great faith in Mr. Chuter. I want the object to pass legislation to encourage people Minister to have a talk with him and get to go and live on the land, not discourage information on this matter and tell me in them. The provision for a higher maximum Committee whether I am right or wrong. rate might encourage some councils to con tinue making the san11c mistakes as we are This 1s. 6d. in the £1 maximum seems to tolr1 they arc doing to-day. Mistakes have be fathering Ipswich; it is something like EVidently been made by a few, and all are having 26 trains to Ipswich and passengers going to suffer. for that town being able to use the 'l'oo woomba train in addition. The Ipswich The benefited area is another question that general rate is 1s. in the £1 plus water, plus should be considered. Some people, particu health, plus garbage, plus two or three other larly in country districts, benefit more than things. I am not here to brag, but I do say others by special works and are willing to that Toowoomba is the best-managed munici pay a special rate for that work. Why pality,. there is nothing to beat it in Queens should that principle be arbitrarily altered? land; and if you want confirmation of that This Bill inclines towards a dictatorship. you will be able to obtain it from Mr. I should not like to call the Minister a Chuter 's office. Party politics has crept into dictator, because he has done so well in the local government at Ipswich, and that is a past in administering this Act. shocking thing in any local authority. OveT zealous party politics has kept this country JUr. SPEAKER: Order! 'l'he hon. member back 25 years. I do not mind a party-you better not. can put a label on it and call it what you 1370 Local Governmem Acts and [ASSEMBLY.] Another Act Amendmem Bill.
like-but do not have any such thing as the people so far as health and employment party politics. You can see what happened in are concerned, and local authorities have Brisbane. They tried it at Toowoomba, where played a very important role in helping to they got two in out of nine; they put one of solve· the problem of unemployment, which them off since, and the other one is still there, was very rife a few years ago. The Govern but he has been virtually converted and is ment saw that local government was a means now a good councillor. Municipal government of spending that would give the greatest is a failure wherever the curse of party amount of employment,, since roadmaking, politics has influence. Irresponsible people water and sewerage projects,, and similar come in and spend money wholesale. The Too works call for the greatest proportion of woomba people will re-elect the present labour to material or money expended than council, of which I am a member, and it will anything else. The general trend is towards manage to keep the rates down. I am not making local authorities agents to assist both quite certain what the Bill proposes to do as Federal and State Governments to carry out regards valuations. In Toowoomba the their various social policies, and in this Bill deputy city clerk does the valuing very suc we see the desire for a closer linking of the cessfully. It costs approximately only £25 local authorities with the Government and a each term and we are quite satisfied with that greater control of them. system, and unless the Bill gives anything Despite what has been s,aid by hon. mem· better than that we shall deal with it very bers opposite, I do not see anything sinister strenuously in Committee, irrespective of the in the Bill. Mr. Chuter has been very highly time or the date of the month. Appeals spoken of by hon. members on both sides of should not come before a stipendiary magis the Chamber. I agree with all that has been trate but before the Land Court. I impress said about his ability. Possibly no man in on the Minister very strongly that the appeal Australia has a better grip of local-authority board should be constituted by a member of and hospital work than he has. In addition, the Land Court. These things come on at as the, Secretary for Health and Home Affairs intervals and could be dealt with by that has pointed out, he has a social outlook in keep body. ing with the times in which we are living, and I have great confidence in Mr. Chuter. that is difficult to find in men to-day. For Anywhere one goes in the country, if there those reasons I believe that he will make the is trouble about local-authority work, one best Direc,tor of Local Gov·ernment it is hears the advice, "Ring up Charlie Chuter. possible to get. He will be able to tell you all about it.'' The birds almost whistle his name in the West. The hon. member for West Moreton criti (Laughter.) It will be all right whilst he is cised the fact that we are handing over to Director, but I am not willing to give power this Director of Local Government, a Govern away to anyone. Mr. Chuter may be replaced ment official, powers that override those of a at any time-one never knows-and this duly elected authority. The Bill does not do Government might order something to be that, because the Minister is still in charge. done. I feel hon. members on the Government Who will say that the Government of the benches are all right individually, but I tell country should not have necessary control you straight, Mr. Speaker, that after what over local authorities W I do not say that the happened in this House on Thursday night Government should have undue control, but last I would not trust the Government-- we must remember that the local authorities collectively cover the same ,area as the State, Mr. SPEAKER: Order! and although they have not been so in the past, it if! possible for local authorities to be Mr. YEATES: As far as I could see them. an embarrassment to the Government of the day, irrespective of the Government who may Mr. SPEAKER: Order! be in power. Generally speaking, local authorities have discharged their functions Mr. YEATES: I am finished, thank you. very well, but there are caoos, or there could Mr. COLLINS (Cook) (2.18 p.m.): I am be cases in which they did not fully appreciate very pleased to see this amending Bill brought the responsibilities they undertook. You may down. as it is quite 'n keeping with the get irresponsible and extravagant local general sentiment of having a greater degree authorities that could lead the community into of unity between the various governing a debt it could not repay. I admit that a local bodies. Yesterday, there was held in the authority must take a vote before it borrows Federal Parliament a convention, the most money, if required, and that is a correct important of its kind that has taken place principle, but often, a vote is not asked for. in the past 40 years, to ascertain how better Again, the local communities are not fully co-operation between the Federal and State aware of the general and far-reaching impli Governments can be brought about. As time cations that may follow certain borrowings by passes and we gradually rise to a higher local authorities. That being so, the Govern· standard of living, greater responsibilities are ment of the day have to take responsibility in falling on governmental bodies. Governments the last analysis for the debts of local to-day assume responsibilities that were not authorities, just as the Federal Government thought of 20, or 30, or 40 years ago. Govern take the responsibility for the debts of the ment in its various stages is gradually State Government in the :final analysis. For becoming more and more part of the life of that reason, the Government must and should the community. In its various spheres have some very direct and effective power to Federal, State, and municipal-it has to play see that local authorities do not create a a very much greater part in the welfare of burden tha* it will he impossible for the Local Government Acts and [25 NovEMBER.] Another Act Ame.ndment Bill. 1371
residents of the shire to bear. By doing that was needed in the way of a valuation was a they are safeguarding the interests of the figure high enough to enable a local authority people of the State. to get enough money to meet its commitments in a simple way, and so long as the valuations The new Director of Local Government will were equitable as between each other it did have a very important office to fill. I am glad not matter very much whether they repr6· to see that the Government at least realise sented the full unimpToved value of the lancr how necessary it is to have somebody working or only half of it. As time went on hospitalb continually upon local-authority matters to became partly the responsibility· of loc.al guide and help local authorities to a greater authorities, and a great deal of juggling of extent than in the past, great as has been the valuations went on. In other words, one help already given to local authorities by the local authority would reduce its valuation department. This Government have always been compaTed with another in the same hospital entirely sympathetic with local authorities and district in order to pay less than its just their problems, and, being a representative of pToportion of the precept. an electorate in 'which there are a number of shires, I fully appreciate the extent to which :rtir. Nimmo: The Bill will encourage that the Government have helped local authorities practice. and the way in which they have worked with Mr. COLLINS: It will not encourage it, them, just as I am fully conscious of the great but will discourage it. I take it that the part played by local authorities in helping person engaged as a valuer by a local autho to solve our social problems. It is good to see rity must be a sworn valuer registered in the matter being taken so seriously as it is accordance with law who will thus be obliged to-day. It is a step in the right direction to to give an equitable valuation or run the appoint a Director of Local Government whose risk of being deregistered. I know of cases time .,-m be devoted almost entirely to this in which shires have unduly depTessed their work. valuations in ordeT to avoid some of their hospital responsibilities, and in one case in vVe come now to the right to rescind resolu particular I lmow the valuations were very tions of local authorities. As has been pointed unjust. A local authority obtained the loan out already, that right has always existed, but of a valuer fTom the Land Tax Department the right to veto possibly harmful negotiations to value its land for taxation purposes, and that had been embarked upon did not exist. he raised the valuation by 50 per cent. com It is of little use having the right to rescind pared with its original valuation. In other what local authorties do, if there is no right words, he doubled the valuation but the local to prevent their continuing what they have put authority concerned was willing to accept it. into effect already. Contractors who may have However, the neighbouring shire in the same been put to considerable trouble in the pre hospital district refused to break away from paration of tenders, the negotiations and the its old valuation and so the first shiTe, which purchase of machinery are duly protected. had obtained an equitable value of its land, Mr. Nimmo: How will it be any different had to foTgo that valuation and reveTt to its under the Bill~ 'l'he contract will be let. old valuation, so as to place itself on an equitable basis compared with its neighboUT Mr. COLLINS: The contract can be in mcflting its obligations. No-one. can vetoed. argue that that was a conect or eqmtable thing to force upon the first local authority. Thlr. Nimmo: But the contract has been let. I should verv much like to see a general valuation of the whole of the land of Queens Mr. COLLINS: Yes, but the contract can land for all purposes-local authorities, land be vetoed after it has been let. tax, death dues, or any other purpose for \Yhich land valnations are TPWJ;red. When JUr. Nimmo: That could be done before. we come to eonsider the amount or money ~Ir. COLLINS: No, and that is one of the that must be spent by the different bodies purposes of the Bill. in obtaining land valuations throughout the State for various purposes, it will be con JUr. N'immo: It was done with the cluded that tens of thousands of pounds must Brisbane City Council and its sanitary con be spent unnecessarily in this direction. In tract. this respect the Bill has in it a great deal J'!Ir. COLLINS: The local authority could to commend it and nothing to condemn it. recoup the contractor for any expense that It is a step in the right direction and my he had been called upon to incur. Surely that only complaint is that it does not go far is looking at the matter in a fair, sensible, enough. and just way, and I do not think hon. The provision to reallocate the divisions is members opposite have any reasons to be a veTy good one. In the past divisions in suspicious of the provision. It will act local authority areas were equitably made entirely in the inteTests of the community mainly for purposes of representation, but and no-one will be injured. The hon. member in quite a number of cases they have out for East Toowoomba was very critical of the grown their original equity for divisional fact that local authorities would not be purposes. That has been very evident in allowed to have one of their officers as a some areas in which new towns have appeared. valuer, but I do not think the provision in As the population of these towns has the Bill goes far enough because valuation increased, they have been enabled to elect a purposes are far more important to-day than greater proportion of representatives than the they were years ago. At one time all that remainder of the loral authority areR. Thnt 1372 Local Government Acts and [ASSEMBLY.] Another Act Amendment Bill. is not equitable representation. This Bill The hon. member for Fassifern suggested seeks to overcome that anomaly. that the Director-Geneml would hold office independent of the Minister. Nothing could Generally speaking, the Bill is a move in be more incorrect. Clause 6 is the relevant the right direction and I commend it. clause and creates the office of Director of The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS Local Government. The new section 4A (2) (Hon. H. A. Bruce, The Tableland) (2.35 makes the Director-General subject to the p.m.), in reply: Apparently the Opposition Minister. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition think it is their duty to oppose, but they and the hon. member for Fassifern confused have voiced very little opposition to the responsibility with power. 'fhe Director has Bill. They are cognisant of the fact that responsibility imposed upon him as Director, the people have looked forward to its intro but no power has been confened on him other duction and that it will be appreciated to than the power of making investigations. A the full when it is enacted. We have heard proper reading of the Bill would have con continuous reiteration of the phrase that veyed that fact to hon. members of the legislation is being rushed through Parlia Opposition, who criticised the Bill on the ment in the dying hours of the session. It ground that it was giving the Director auto is obvious that the session cannot expire until cratic powers and making him a dictator. the last piece of legislation is passed by this The powers remain where they always Assembly. For the first session for many belonged-namely, in the Governor in Council years, the gag has not been used. The Oppo and the Minister on the one hand and the sition have had fuU and ample opportunity local authorities on the other hand, with Par to debate every Bill. liament above all. That is the arrangement under this Bill. Had the Bill been properly The hon. member for West Moreton devoted read no reasonable criticism could have been most of his speech to a certain angle of raised on those points. The Director has no thought through a misreading of the Bill. power to give effect to findings of investiga Apparently he assumed that the Bill pro tions; he can only report the findings oi vided for the appointment of a Dictator of investigations to the Minister; the power to Local Government, but Mr. Chuter has been give effect to findings rests with the Governor appointed Director not dictator of local govern in Council and the Minister. If hon. members ment. Indeed, a great deal of procrastination overlooked these things in the reading of the has been in evidence throughout the debate. Bill they can rest assured that that is the That is due to the fact that insufficient time position and any fears they had in that was given by hon. members to studying the Bill, direction have no foundation. which is their duty. Had they applied them The hon. member for Fassifern said that selves in this >my to this and other legisla power had been taken to remove the right of tion, the work of this session could have the local authority to define benefited areas. been finished several days ago. In their If the hon. member knew the Local Govern ignorance of the Bill, Opposition hon. ment Act he would know that a local autho members averred that when this Bill was rity never had power to define a benefited proclaimed and Mr. Chuter was appointed area; so we cannot take away from the local Director-General he would be clothed authorities something that they do not possess. with autocratic powers to oversee local This power has always been vested in the government. The hon. member for Fassifern Minister, and under this Bill it remains with inferred that the Director-General's duties the Minister. Benefited areas are, as a rule, would clash with the Minister's administra defined in accordance with the application tion, and, consequently, he would be outside of the local authority, except in isolated the control of Parliament. It is evident that cases, where the application is manifestly he did not study the Bill. wrong. Nothing could be fairer than that. It has been stated again by hou. members No greater power could be given to members of the Opposition that they did not have an of the local authority than the right to make opportunity of perusing the Bill. I gave the representations in regard to benefited areas. Leader of the Opposition a copy of the Bill The Bill seeks to make provision for the on Thursday last. I know that it has been abolition of benefited areas in cases where in the Opposition's room and its members divi~ions are being abolished for financial have had an opportunity of studying it. purposes, thereby completely removing finan Therefore, that statement is decidedly incor cial division. The abolition of benefited areas rect and unfair to me as Minister. I was is a natural corollary to the abolition of courteous enough to hand a copy of the Bill divisions for financial purposes, enabling a to the Leader of the Opposition at an early complete pooling of the finances of a local date to enable him to study it closely. authority. I am sure hon. members who have been on local authorities, especially ~Ir. Nimmo: You must remember that those who have had considerable experience the Leader of the Opposition is not suppoRed in this diTection, must agree with those pro to show it to anyone. visions. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: Power to abolish divisions for financial The Leader of the Opposition left last pm·poses was first taken in 1932-10 years Saturday to attend the conference in Canberra ago. Since then divisions for financial pur summoned by the Federal Government, and I poses in a number of shires have been prp,ume that the hon. gentleman, as Deputy abolished, in every case at the request of the Leader of the Opposition, would have an local authority. ·when that was put in the opportunity of studying it. Act ln 1932 there was little or no criticism, Local Government .Acts and [25 NoVEMBER.j Another Act Amendment Bill. 1373
and the only alteration made since then was The Acting Leader of the Opposition and made at the request of the local authorities; the hon. member for East Toowoomba men the same power that existed then exists now. tioned the case of the city of Ipswich. They Is there any suggestion that that power would implied that the maximum general rate was be wrongfully used in the future although the being increased because of the rate position power has not been abused during the last at Ipswich. The department has received a 10 years~ Surely that cannot be reasonably number of requests for an increase in the argued. maximum general rate. The majority of the local authorities concerned in the validating Hon. members paid high compliments to provisions of the Bill levied general rates in Mr. Chuter. Mr. Chuter will have more excess of 1s. The validation makes these opportunity to· carry out the Act than in the rates legal. These local authorities cannot past when he had other matters to attend now get their rates down to the maximum to; now, this will be virtually the job of unless they adopt the expedient of levying Mr. Chuter, consequently we can expect several ratAs-e.g., a general rate, special that this Bill will be administered with the loan rate, and so on. This, of course,. has same or even greater care than in the past. the disadvantage of making much additional In some cases local authorities desired bene office work which accentuates the staffing diffi fited areas to be abolished, but there was no culties at present besetting local authorities. power to do this. I, as well as the other This fact necessitated the immediate enact Ministers wbo administered this Act, had ment of the Bill. Under the existing law, if requests in this direction. The provision in the local authority levied all rates (including the Bill takes power to abolish benefited areas rates to meet the expenses of water supply, only where financial divisions are being cleansing, and sewerage) in one rate, the abolished, and in no other circumstances. maximum does not apply. While the Department <>an originate proposals The following local authorities are for the R bolition of divisions for financial pur approaching or have reached the 1s. limit pose~ _and of benefited areas, the following in the general rate, or have this year to over prov1s10ns of the law must be observed, come the limitation in the amount of the namely- general rate, levied general and special loan 1. The council must be heard (section 4 rates-I am sorry the hon. member for East (1) of The Local Government Act 'of Toowoomba is not present:- 1936). Cities. 2. Three months' notice of intention Bundaberg Rockhampton must be published by the Minister in the Cairns Toowoomba ''Gazette'' and in the local newspaper Ipswic;h Townsville (section 5 of the Act of 1936). Maryborough Warwick 3. The abolition must be made by the Towns. Governor in Council by Order in Council (section 5). Bowen Gladstone Charleville Goondiwindi That completely safeguards any suggestion Coolangatta Rama that Mr. Chuter will be acting as a dictator Dalby Southport and not as a director. The ultimate decision will lie with the Governor in Council. Shires. Biggenden Laidley Hon. members opposite have referred to the Burrum JIIIulgrave increase in the maximum rate from 1s. to Cardwell Murgon 1s. 6d. in the £1. I ask them to consider this Coo mer a Nerang point: if the maximum rate remained at 1s. Hinchinbrook Noosa in the . £1 and last year a local authority's Isis Tiara expenditure exceeded that amount would it .Tohnstone be possible for it to reduce the r~tes below 1s. for the forthcoming year~ Certainly not. There are eight cities, eight shires, and It was, therefore, obvious that we had to 13 towns in that list. The Toowoomba extend their rating power, and this was done City Council has this year levied a to the amount of 1s. 6d. in the £1. It has general rate of 10d. in the £1 and a been asked why we did not extend this only special loan rate of 3td. in the £1. If to those local authorities that were in finan the Bill becomes law, the council could levy cial difficulties. But local authorities are like a general rate of 1s. Hd. in the £1, thus individuals-some are in trouble to-day and doing away with the need for levying two somG are in trouble to-morrow-and we are rates. It will thus be seen that the hon. dealing with local-governing bodies as a member for East Toowoomba does not know whole. This provision will cover the authori the exact position or he carefully refrained ties that are in trouble to-day and also to from giving figures when he compared Ipswich a_ >:cry large e::ctent those that may be in and Toowoomba. S1m1lar trouble m the future. If the Bill is The Acting Leader of the Opposition Taised not made to cover the whole State then I the question of the expenditure of the city visualise the position that next year'we shall of Ipswich. The Ipswich City Council is con h_ave further validating Bills to meet the posi structing a sewerage system. The loan tiOn of those local authorities that may have moneys made available for this work were exceeded the limit of a rate of 1s. in the £1. advanced on terms made at the commence The fixing of a rate of 1s. 6d. in the £1 will ment of the work and obviously the expendi cover this provision. ture on a sewerage ~cheme for a city of the 1374 Local Government Acts and [ASSEMBLY.l Another Act Amendment Bill. size of Ipswich cannot be paid for out of not new, as the power was vested previously general rates. Obviously, expenditure for in the Commissioner for Irrigation under the that purpose is not within the ordinary terms Land Administration Board. of finance of the council. The terms of the In conclusion, I am of the opinion that this loan were based on the assumption that the Bill was long overdue, as has been suggested scheme would be complete and in operation by other hon. members. I can assure hon. by the beginning of this financial year, and members that it has received a great deal of full commitments on account of the relative consideration and none but one with a super debenture loans commence at the beginning critical mind could see anything in it that of the this financial year. Owing to the war was unwarranted, and I am confident that it situation, the work has not been completed to will be received by the people of Queensland, schedule. In making its budget for this finan by the shire councils in particular, with hearty cial year, the council made provision to meet approval. the interest and redemption by a loan rate, which required the levying of a rate equivalent Motion (Mr. Bruce) agreed to. to lOd. in the £1. Since adopting its budget, the council has negotiated with the lenders COMMITTEE. of the money, who are agreeable to post (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Brassing· poning payment of redemption on debentures ton, Fortitude Valley, in the chair.) until 1 .July next. Further, the council has now obtained a loan to capitalise the interest Clauses 1 to 4, both inclusive, as read, due this year. Thus, the provision made in agreed to. the budget for interest and redemption is no Clause 5-Amendment of section 4 (5); longer necessary and may be reduced, and Governor in Council may intervene- this Bill enables a fresh budget to be made and fresh rates struck. Once the scheme is :ilir. NIM:iliO (Oxley) (2.58 p.m.): This completed and house connections are made, clause is almost identical with the section in the interest and redemption on the sewerage the Act. The only difference is one word. loan will be defrayed from the proceeds of The clause says- the sewerage rate or charge, as is done in '' The Governor in Council may at any Toowoomba and other cities of the State. time- :illr. Nimmo: Did you say that Toowoomba ( a) Suspend or rescind any resolu· had a loan rate of 3s. 4d. in the £1 ~ tion or order of a local authority; Tlle SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: andjor ... '' I said that Toowoomba had a general rate of The section in the Act merely says ''or,'' lOd. in the £1 and a loan rate of 3!d. in whereas the Bill says '' andjor.'' "What does the £1. the difference mean~ The hon. member for Fassifern said the frequent validations of acts was proof that The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS the law of local authorities was bad. I can (Hon. H. A. Bruce, The Tableland) (2.59 not agree with that contention. The best law p.m.) : The correct grammatical construction in the world will be broken. We have not of the clause calls for the use of the words reached that stage of perfection at which all "and/or." That is the only explanation. people will obey the law, no matter how good Clause 5, as read, agreed to. it may be. As a general rule, we can say Clauses 6 to 9, both inclusive, as read, that the best laws will be broken, and the agreed to. hon. member's assumption that the law is bad because a small number of people break the Clause 10-Amendment of section 21; law requires no further debate. If the hon. Power to levy rates, &c.- member is satisfied with that contention we :illr. NIM:iliO (Oxley) (3 p.m.): The hon. shall let him be satisfied with it. member for Cook said he was quite satisfied Presumably,, the political writer of the with this clause, but I am sure that many ''Courier-Mail'' picked out three provisions local authorities would be more satisfied if in the Bill, namely- the Govcmment did not encroach upon their Cl) Rescission of resolutions; revenue. (2) Dissolution of councils; :ilir. Collins: I did not mention the clause. ( 3) Power of Minister to undertake JUr. NDBIO: This is the clause that water-supply and sewerage schemes. raises the maximum rate to ls. 6d. in the £1. I take it that it is the duty of the paper to The Government impose a heavy land tax on give news to the people, and it should be the people, but I think they might easily equally the duty of the paper to have on its vacate the land tax field in favour of local staff persons who understand these things in authorities, and allow them to be the sole order that news might be submitted to the taxing authority in respect of land. Again, people correctly. The power of the Governor the Government impose taxes on motor in Council to re>cind resolutions and di~solve vehicles, and none, or very little, of t;he councils has been in our local-government law revenue is returned to local authorities. for a long time. The provisions of the Bill The CHAIRlUAN: Order! I am afraid are merely extensions of the existing powers that the hon. gentleman is getting away from of the Governor in Council. the principles of the clause. The main pur· With the exception of the third, none of pose of it is to increase the maximum rate these provisions is new; in fact, the third is to ls. 6d. in the £1. Local Government Acts and [25 NovEMBER.] Another Act Amendment Bill. 1375
~Ir. NUDIO: I am pointing out that this JUr. Duns tan: The Government have the r·ate will be a heavy burden on some lo.cal electors behind them. authorities. Rates are gradually gettmg higher and higher. I remember the time lUr. NIM~IO: Cairns did not prove t_h~t. when 3d. in the £1 was considered a fair rate The fact remains that some local author1tles for local authorities to levy. did not play the game, and now they are receiving further consideration.. The present The Secretary for Public Works: What action is not in consonance w1th the state conveniences did they get then~ ment by the Secretary for Health. a~d Ho~e Affairs whe!l introducing tho ongmal B~l ~Ir. NilUlUO: If the rate is fixed too high the people will be unable to remain on the that its purpose was to regulate the expendi land. Local authorities have been extravagant ture of local authorities. This alteration has in some respects. It has been admitted here become necessary because a number of local that dming the depression period the local authorities were stampeded into a great deal authorities were used to create employment, of expenditure to provide employment. They whereas that burden should have been borne were misled. They received a subsidy for the work, and thought they were getting by the Government. They were rush~d into heavy expenditure, whicP. is now tellmg on something for nothing. Now they are loaded them. The hon. member for Herbert even with a debt and consequently a heavy rate justified the expenditure. upon. the. constr.uc impost that' they cannot carry. It is recog tion of the town hall m Inmsfa1l, costmg nised in the rural districts that once a local between £50,000 and £60,000, because it was authority's rate reached 1s. in the £1, plus built to create employment. That was the other imposts on land, including land tax, argument that he used. the burden is too heavy to enable the man on the land to operate successfully. These Mr. Theodore: It was not. rates are a serious obstacle to our primary producers, who must compete :Vith other Mr. NUiliO: The huge expenditure countries on the world's markets m the sale incurred by local aut!J.orities is now telling on of their products. them. The Secretary for Public Lands: Most IIIr. LUCKlNS (Maree) (3.7 p.m.): Rates of the local authority men are your own are levied on land values. Valuations supporters. vary. Some local authorities have low valua tions and a high rate, while others have high ~Ir. NDBIO: Of course they are. valuations and a low rate. This system leads to great confusion. A stm1dard system of The Secretary for Public Lands: Evi dently you cannot trust them. valuation could be obtained by the appoint ment of a Valuer-General, or some other 3Ir. NIMMO: Of course they are. The valuing authority. A truer basis could then fact remains that the maximum rate is too be obtained for rating purposes. high altogether. The Act was designed. to curb the expenditure of local govermng Mr. lUAHER: (West Moreton) (3.8 p.m.): bodies and do the right thing by the people. I move the following amendment:- When the Secretary for Health and Home ''On page 8, lines 18 to 21, omit the Affairs introduced it he said that the Govern paragraph- ment were going to compel local bodies to budget for their expenditure and live within ' (1.) The fourth paragraph of subsec that budget. Hard and fast rules were laid tion one of the said section is amended down to compel them to comply with those by the substitution of the words ''one provisions. It "as a splendid Act, but we shilling and sixpence'' for the words find that as soon as local governing bodies ''one shilling'' where the latter words fail to adhere to their budgets or live within occur,' their means a benevolent Government have ''and insert in lieu thereof the paragraph- come along and amended the law by increas ' (1.) The words "except in the case o~ ing the maximum rate to ls. 6d. in the £1. the City of Bundaberg, the Towns of The Secretary for Public Works: What Coolangatta and So.uthport, and the would you do~ Shires of Biggenden Burrum, Eacham, Hinchinbrook and ' Tiaro, where a J'IIr. Nili'HIO: I should pass special legis general rate not exceeding the amount lation to penalise local authorities that had of one shilling and sixpence in the pound not complied with the Act by increasing the of the ratable value of land may be maximum rate in their cases. I should not made and levied in any one year" are ·make the increase general. addecl to the fourth paragraph of sub lUr. Pie: It is optional. section one of the said section.' '' That amendment would be read in conjunction I\Ir. NIMMO: We know it is optional, but with Clause 21 of the Local Government Act it permits a local authority to increase its of 1936, under the heading ''General Rate''- rate to a maximum of ls. 6d. in the £1. When the original Act was passed the maximum ' 'No general rate made and levied in any was ls. I predict that i11 five years hence one vear shall exceed the amount of 1s. in a further amending Bill will be required to the £1 of the ratable value of land.'' increase the maximum to 2s. or 2s. 6d. The Under the amendment this section of the new maximum rate will impose a big penalty principal Act would stancl, but the City of on householders. Bundaberg, the towns of Coolangatta and 1376 Local Government Acts and [ASSEMBLY.] Another Act Amendment Bill.
Southport, and the shires of Biggenden, to an excessive amount. Any ratepayer Bm-rum, Eacham, Hinchinbrook, and Tiaro called on to pay Is. 6d, in the £I on the would be excepted. The reason for that was ratable value of his land is paying a mighty developed by me on the second reading when high tax. That could easily discourage many I showed that there was no need to raise the men on the land, with the heavy taxes they maximum rate in areas that were not affected are called on to pay to-day in every direc in the same way as these local authorities. tion, such as interest on money borrowed, Provision is made for the rate to be increased shire rates, and so on, and this discourage to Is. 6d., and that gives scope for the rates ment of land settlement could easily affect to be increased to that amount in areas \Vhere production. If the scale of rates rises to the same disabilities have not occurred, as in excessive amounts there will be a tendency these specific local authorities. for land values to decline and for people in sl1ire areas affected in that way to get out. Mr. Taylor: It would be better to give We want to make the conditions on the land the Governor in Council authority to issue a attractive. The people are not there to be specific instruction for the rate to be increased in any shire. plundered, even by those they themselves elect, and Parliament should be careful not . ~Ir. ]'!AHER: It would be preferable to to provide the opportunity for unwise adminis gwmg them the powers contained in the pre trators or reckless and irresponsible alder sent Bill. I think this amendment, if accepted, men and councillors to pander to pressure would anchor the maximum of Is. 6d. to the from interested people outside, people with specific shires and municipalities that have an axe to grind, and raise the rates. There got themselves into financial difficulties and should be some protection for those who have require an additional rate to g&t themselves a stake in the country and those responsible out of them. citizens who have money invested in the land and who produce our crops and our stock. lUr. Farrell: Who said B'urum got into If we are going to permit all sorts of hare financial difficulties~ brained aldermen and councillors with peculiar JUr. MAHER: Burrum needs the rate to theories and nostrums to get control of coun be increased to Is. 6d. cils and by the application of these theories and nostrums cause the rates to become )Ir•. Fa.rrell: It is not in financial diffi excessive, that will react on the man who is culties. the backbone of this country. JUr. JUAHER: The hon. member may take )Ir. lhmstan: I thought you were in a finer view at the position than I but it favour of uniform taxation. borders upon difficulties when it ftnds it necessary to raise the rate above the maximum Mr. 1\IAHER: That does not apply in scale provided in the principal Act. Let those local governme11t. I like the principle of who are in need of it have the power but do uniform taxation, but that is a phrase, and not give the opportunity for reckless ~xpendi as we understand it it has no bearing what ture to other shires and municipalities in the ever on shire rating. There is every logical State, and that will be undoubtedly o-iven and fair reason why this amendment should under the Bill as it stands. " be acceptable to the committee. It gives protection and relief to the municipalities in T1Je Secretary for Labour and Employ need and excludes from the clause the other ment: I do not think any shire would raise the rate if it was not needed. local authorities in the State whose affairs do not warrant the raising of the rate to :ii'Ir. 1\.IAHER: The opportunity to raise Is. 6d. in the £1. Under those circumstances the rate is given by the Bill. The necessity I ask the Minister to accept the amendment, has arisen in these specific instances and ,.,110 and thereby act prudently and at least give can say it will not arise in other instances if protection to the people who pay the rates scope is given by raising the maximum~ I from persons who would irresponsibly think it is important to keep the shires down increase them and place further burdens on to t~l8 maximum rate, which time and their shoulders. expenence have proved to be sufficient-Is. in the £I. That is a high rate. I have no hesita )Ir. DART (Wynnum) (3.20 p.m.): I tion in saying that Is. 6d. is a shockingly support the amendment, which is very fair. high rate-an excessive rate. It may be said that it is differentiation, but in sneh a case as this it is very necessary to The Secretary for Labour and Employ differentiate. There are the guilty and the ment: It depends on the valuation. innocent, those who overstep the mark by iUr• .InAHER: The question of valuation exceeding the ls. in the £1, and those who comes into it. I know some valuations are have observed the law. Those who have high and others are low, and there is not a infringed it are guilty and should a bide by uniform method of valuation. I realise all the decision of this Parliament, but why those factors, but that should remain the right change the provision as it applies to those of the local-governing body to decide; it who have not done so~ There is no need to contro~s its ?wn affairs. If the local-governing make a change for the innocent. vVe know ~1ody 1s satisfied that the valuation given to that members of local authorities have been 1t by a competent man is all right why not working in the interests of the people whom leave it a.!one' ' they represent. They have given excellent service, and the Government should be grate There should be no encouragement ,of ful to the se men for their ea pacity to so unwise expenditure by raising the maximum handle local affairs as to keep the rates under Local Government Acts and [25 NovEMBER.] Another Act Amendment Bill. 1377 ls. in the £1. Surely we, as representatives might be originally one of its own employees Df the public, should not impose extra bur and so this provision might be evaded. I am dens on such men. It may be argued that pleased to see that no officer on the councii we are not imposing extra burdens on them, shall be allowed to make valuations, and I but the point is that under the present pro gave my reasons earlier. I am afraid, how vision it is still possible for irresponsible ever, that as this clause is worded, a council people to overstep the mark and make it would have the opportunity of employing a necessary to strike a rate of more than 1s. full-time valuer at a nominal salary and so Local authorities controlled by men who have be able to defeat the provision of the Bili embarked upon a programme of extrava and its objective, because it would then be gance should bear the responsibility. Those able to control valua tions made by that man. who have been prudent and lived within their It is time the Government gave serious con means should not have to suffer with these sideration to having a standard valuation extravagant ones. Differentiation is quite made for the whole of Queensland. By that right in a matter like this, because it is only I mean a valuation that could be used for doing what is just and fair to those who probate, land tax, and any other purpose. have helped to govern the country as it should be governed. The Secretary for Public Lands: Do you really think there would be some merit in If we make it possible for the rates to be that~ increased by anothe1· 6d. in the £1, people Mr. NIIUI\10: I think there would be a will not settle on the land, for they will be great Mr. NIMMO (Oxley) (3.31 p·.m.) : I should a sewerage scheme, and to obtain the neces like the Minister to tell us what is the real sary money from one of the insurance offices trouble at Ipswich. A very big sewerage on a guarantee from the Government together scheme was embarked upon there and I ques with a, subsidy of 50 per cent. The money tion very much if the clause is going to help was obtained, but no provision was made for the city. Will it be slugged with a very high the funding of that money until the scheme rate because of the work it has undertaken, was begun. The present council, on which is and are we going to compel the ratepayers a majority of Labour men, was faced with at Ipswich to accept a heavier ordinary rate having to pay interest and redemption on than they pay at the moment 1 The Minister money raised by the previous council. said that the Ipswich City Council had capi talised its interest indebtedn The CJ-LUlDLL:\: Order~ ll[r. ::'IDDIO (Oxley): I haYe much pleasure in ~eeonc1iJJ.". the lllol ion. Clause :2.), as reatl, :1greecl to. ::\Iotion agreed to. Cl:1use ~U-Aclministration of local affairs un Thnr~(1:Jy Isl:nul--:l'c> n;nd, agreed to. SI'ECL\.L "\D.iOUR:'\::\lB:'\'1'. Bill n'p(H'h.~(l, \rithou t a llll'lH1ment. 'l'he S:Et'RE'J'AUY 1<'01{ HE.\.LTH A::'IU HO::VJE Al<'l<'.URS (Hon. E. l\L Hanlon, Tll!i:D HEADING. lthac·a) (3.±7 ll.ln.): I moYe- Bill, oil motion of ~Ir. Brnce, rl':l Tlte SECRETARY :FOR HEALTH ANn carried on lwateclly. I think hon. members in HOJH~ AFl'AIRS: We are deeply grateful general are appreci:ttin' of the t·om·tes:· sho1nt for the remnrkabJe achievements of the Aus· to them by the Chairman of Committees and tralian troops in New Guinea, the Americnns the Temporary Chairman. in the Solomons, aiHl 8th Army in Libya, ancl the Anglo· American forces in N ortll I desire also to thank the officers of the Afrira. For the first time thne is a ruy of House, the Clerk of ParliamPnt and his light for the Allier1 peoples. But \l·e must assistants, the '' Hansanl'' staff, tho library not get it into our hearls tlut lJecansc of staff, the Pal'linmentnry Drnftsma11, the sOHll' Yictories the job is finishetl, that it is refrcshnlcllt-t·oom staff, an(] the Illessenc:ns. all o1·er bar the shouting. There are hnl'(l They have ull gi1·en of their best to '!loll. >York anrl anxious times nhcad of all demo· members of this AssemblY. I clo not think cratie peoples, but we arc eontinuing the :my hon. member on cithei· sicle of the House session into the New Year, as I mentioned hac! :m:vthing to complain of as to their when mo1·ing the pre1-ious motion, so that if colll'tes:· and rlesire to hl'lp them in anything neeessary-slwulr1 anything justify it-tlw the:· wishefl to clo. House can be cnlled together at any time. fn eo11elnsion, I wish all hon. members :nHl On this occasion we shall hal·() scvernl the staff a ]War-cful Christmas season. It is ehangcs before the House reassembles. Dur not possible to e:xpn•ss >rishes for a happy ing the past year rleath took from us one of ClnistHws at the present time, l;ut I can at our most popular :\Iinisters, John 0 'Keefe, anrl kast exp1·css tltc' \Yish thnt all !ton. meml;ers this made a r·hange in the Government. But and all members of the ~tnff >Yill have H in t!Jp near futme \\'C shall lose two other peaceful Christmas season an cl t h:~t the )[ ew :\Iinisters \Yho have taken a very important Year \rill bring- bright hopes of early pence part in the affairs of the State over the past awl seemity for our people. 10 years. The Hon. vV. Forgan Smith was Lealler of this House and Premier of this Honourable )[embers: Hear. hear! State for over 10 years. His splemli session iu ~Ian·h will be produdiYe of gooll a.ppreciation of my old friend, Sl!m Bras l>otlt in legislation and inflncnc-p on the people. slngton, the hon. member for Fortitude 'Ne• are liYing in tliffieult times, an }fr. .1. F. BAH:U:S (Bun