- SPECIAL REPORTS + MAHARASHTRA - INTERVIEWIBAL THACKERAY I "Yes,I'm the remote control"

NOTHING in his life has affectedShivSena cies are concerned, even if he's the chief A. We should give the army a free chief Bal Thackeray,69, asmuchas the re- minister, he has to consult me. That he hand. Now it's like giving them Sten cent death of his wije Meenatai, whom he also knows. The airport MOU he signed guns without bullets. Pakistani extrem- used to address as "Ma". So much so, that with the Hindujas, for instance. My ists have encroached upon our land, a man whom Maharashtra Chief Minister problem is that my people are poor, their andit is our right to retaliate and protect Manohar Joshi and other followers de- immediate need is not an airport. Hous- our sovereign state. Shoot them, kill scribe as 'Hindu Hriday Samrat' has now ing, food and water are the priorities. them. No dialogue, not even withYasin turnedan agnostic. But even after discard- Q. So you hold the remote control in Malilt. People must feel the pinch that ing his rudrakshmalas and removingpic- your hand? there is a government. Or we are help- tures and idols of Ganesh from his house, A. Yes, I am the remote control. Re- less, raped by everybody. We have a Thackeray has not forsaken his identity as mote controls are the latest develop- prime minister, we have a home minis- a belligerent Hindu leader Surrounded by ment in science. When the Congress ter, so why should we move like orphans images of his wije, the Sena leader spoke to was in power, nobody criticised the way without parents? Senior Associate Editor M. RAHMAN about Sharad Pawar would be summoned by Q. You also called swadeshi his hold over the Maharashtra Govern- the high command in Delhi. So why at- "rubbish". ment, the rise of his son and nephew, rela- tackmy remote control. Remote control A. Swadeshi must also have quality, tions with the BJP, swadeshi and other must be there because it is a Shiv Sena not just quantity.Youcan't make rubber issues. Excerpts from the interview: andnjp government, and we will control chappals with cardboard inside. First it from bothsides.Thechief minister has think of the product, then quality and Q. Will the Shiv Sena-BJPGovern- certain rights, like changing officials then quantity. If you stretch the ment survive thefull term? and bureaucrats, but when it comes to swadeshi idea too far, then you'll have A. Yes, I'm quite sure about that. policies, if something goes wrong, I'llbe to live in darkness, because the What they (the Congress-I) are doing is heldresponsible. scaremongering,largely because of the Q. Even appointments like that of court cases involving Manohar Joshi the commissioner of Bombay Police are and four or five others. But no matter decided by you. what happens, there is no danger to us A. I can make suggestions. I've also because even if our number in the As- studied the city, so to saveMumbaiIhave sembly gets reduced, there are around theright to say who is the right man tobe 17 to 20 independent MLAs who are police commissioner. completely with us. Q. In your paper Saamna you've Q. But doubts have strongly criticised bu- also arisen because of reaucrats. your warning to inde- A. I'm definitely pendent MLAs to stop 'Even if Joshi blunt about my "anti-government ac- is the chief thoughts. I will not tol- tivities ". erate any bureaucrat A. I warned two or minister, he has who's pro-Pawar. If I three of them, not all come to know that any independents. It is to consult me official is pro-Pawar, like this-when I say 1'11 see to it that he's something about as far as the kicked out. Bureaucrats Bangladeshis, Bangla should not play politics. Muslims, Jyoti Basu al- Government's Q. The Sena and BP ways feels that I'm policies are are also having prob- against Bengalis. That is lems inthe coalition. the mistake they are re- concerned.' A. That phase is peating here. over now. Q. Do you think A.But youcriticisedthe ManoharJoshi will last afull term? BJP over the Kashmirpolls issue. A. He's doing very well. He's a very A. On Kashmir, they opposed elec- enthusiastic person, why should I tions, but also said if elections take place disturb him unless something happens? they'll take part in it. If you ask me, 1'11 There are two or three people who say, no electionstill theKashmiiiPandits are also competent, but he's definitely can go back and cast their votes. That's more competent. why I said the BJP is trying to eat sugar Q. But you keep pulling him up and chillies together. publicly. Q. How would you deal with the A. As far as the Government's poli- Kashmir issue?

INIIIA TODAY OECEMBLK 15.1995 electric bulb was invented by Edison. leaders for propagating involved. then the Gov- A foreign product should not kill my dynastic rule, but now ernment should show oroduct. To that extent swadeshi you areprojectirlg your 'I take the some gumption and nab makes sense. Otherwise it is a multina- son Uddhav andnephew Pakistan cricket him with Interpol's tional world today and one needs Raj as party leaders. help. Hang him if he collaborations. A. There is no at- team to be my was involved, and if he Q. Mailohar Joshi says foreign in- tempt to project Ud- wasn't, release him. vestment is welcome irl all sectors, in- dhav or Raj in any way. enemy, and an Q. A weekly has re- cluding ro~zsu~~~erprodticts. They felt that mine was ported that your name A. I would lie to see what are these a lone fight, and that if enemy cannot isat the topof Dawood's consumer products. If it's going to be for they could contribute a hit list. soap and things like that then it can't be little, it would be useful be allowed A. My Shiv Sainiks allowed. I will not welcome any investor for me. If I wanted to to step into my have thrown a chal- who is going to kill our industry here. I make Uddhav a minis- lenge to Dawood that if don't want history to be repeated. The ter, I could have done it motherland!' you want, come here. East India Company came here for com- a long time ago. But rather than sit in Dubai merce, and then they ruled the country the man who himself and hire some s~ipari for 150years. avoided becoming chief minister killers from there. I am well protected by Q. Why do you keep irlsistiilg that cannot be accused of propagating dy- my Shiv Sainiks, they are my real bullet- Pakistan should not play irz I~ldia? nastic rule. proof jacket. They will not allow any- A. Because they are not true players. Q. Dawood is the prime accused in body to create any mischief. They declare thatwhen they win against the Bombay blasts case, and Raj has Q. The person who issued the threat India. Hindustan, it's a victory of Islam. been quoted as saying that this Govern- maintaiiledthatevenlsraeliprime min- and when they start a match, they de- ment should finish him. ister YitzhakRabin was killedinspite of clare it's jehad against Hindustan. So I A. I amnot going to discuss this mat- heavy security. take them to be not sportsmen but my ter at all because I don't know whose A. If that is so, then it can apply to enemies, and an enemy cannot be al- hand was in the blasts. If tomorrow it is Dawood also. What guaranteecan you lowed to step into my motherland. proved that even Sanjay Dutt had a hand give? When you point a finger at some- Q. You [wed to criticise Cotlgress in it, I will say hang him. If Dawood was body, three fingers point back at you. and if anything happens to me this whole country will go up in flames. You can put it in writing and I will sign it. There will be anarchy. It is not that easy to finish me. And if they do it, Da- wood or anybody, we have a human bomb which will blast the country. And the civil war will start not in 1998. as I havepredicted. but immedi- ately. I have told my boys to be ready. They will go berserk if anything hap- pens to me. If they touch me it will flare up throughout the country. It will be disastrous for everybody, in- cluding Dawood. Q. Is it true that you have turned an agnostic? A. My wife was so pious. so devoted. soreligious.Butitcame tonothing. After shewent to aGaneshChaturthifunction in Bombay. we forgot the emergency bot- tle of her medicine and went to Karjat. Here was a test for gods and goddesses. It was the duty of God to remind her of the emergency bottle. If not, then you and your faith are led astray. When she needed it, the medicine was not there and we lost her. If the gods do not come to your help when you need them, then what's the use. I have removed all pic- tures of Ganesh from my house. But her picture will be there. Q. But how can you still call your- self a Hindu leader? A. My Hinduism is nationalism, not communalism. I am proud of being a Hindu.