Page 1 NATIONAL CAPITAL PLANNING COMMISSION + + + + + COMMISSION MEETING

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OPEN SESSION

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THURSDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2012

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The meeting convened in Room 5115, Suite 500, 401 9th Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20004, at 1:00 p.m., Preston Bryant, Jr., Chairman, presiding.

NATIONAL CAPITAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: PRESTON BRYANT, JR., Chairman Presidential Appointee

HOWARD A. DENIS, U.S. House of Representatives GEORGINE GLATZ, Department of Defense JOHN M. HART, Presidential Appointee PETER MAY, Department of the Interior ROBERT E. MILLER, Mayoral Appointee HARRIET TREGONING, Office of the Mayor of the District of Columbia

TOMMY WELLS, Council of the District of Columbia BETH WHITE, Presidential Appointee MINA WRIGHT, General Services Administration NCPC STAFF PRESENT:

MARCEL C. ACOSTA, Executive Director ANNE SCHUYLER, General Counsel DEBORAH B. YOUNG, Secretary to the Commission

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 2 T-A-B-L-E O-F C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S 1 Report of the Chairman, Preston Bryant...... 4

2 Report of the Executive Director, Marcel Acosta ...... 6

3 Legislative Update, Anne Schuyler . . . 10

4 CONSENT CALENDAR - No Presentations

4A 7411 The Yards, Southeast Federal Center, Tingey Street and 4th Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. - Parcel N.. . . 10 4B 7413 Transfer of jurisdiction of a triangular portion of land bordered by , N.W., , N.W., and the , West Building ...... 10

5 ACTION ITEMS - With Presentations

5A CPO1 Comprehensive Plan for the National Capital: Federal Elements - Amendments to the Federal Environment Element,

Presentation, David Zaidain...... 13

5B Fort Belvoir, North Post, Fairfax County, Virginia - New Commissary . . . 46 6 INFORMATION PRESENTATION

6A The Design Competition: Constitution Gardens and Sylvan Theater ...... 92 ADJOURNMENT

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 3 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S

2 1:02 p.m.

3 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Good afternoon

4 and welcome to the National Capital Planning

5 Commission's October 4, 2012 meeting. If you

6 would, please, stand and join me in the Pledge

7 of Allegiance.

8 (Pledge of Allegiance.)

9 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Thank you.

10 I'll note for all that today's

11 meeting is being live streamed on the NCP

12 website. We do have a quorum so without

13 objection we'll proceed with the agenda as has

14 been advertised.

15 [INSERT - Agenda]

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 4 1 1 REPORT OF THE CHAIRMAN

2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Agenda Item No.

3 1 is the Report of the Chairman. I have two

4 items. One is we received a letter from

5 Representative Darrell Issa, Chairman of the

6 House Committee on Oversight and Government

7 Reform designating John Cuaderes as the first

8 alternate, Howie Denis as the second

9 alternate, and Mary Pritschau as the third

10 alternate to the Commission. Howie has

11 previously served as the third and now he's

12 number two.

13 Second item of the Chairman's

14 Report is that yesterday we had our third

15 annual meeting at with DoD,

16 specifically with the Army, Navy, and Air

17 Force commands in the Washington District.

18 Commissioner Provencha, who is the

19 DoD rep, has been instrumental in setting up

20 these meetings as we continue to work for

21 further collaboration between NCPC staff and

22 DoD staff on project planning.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 5 1 Of the 158 projects we have

2 reviewed in FY12 41 of them were DoD so that's

3 roughly a quarter with GSA being No. 2 with 29

4 of the 158 projects. The military-related

5 projects make up a healthy chunk of our work.

6 We stress kind of three things.

7 One is getting NCPC staff involved as early as

8 possible in project planning, certainly well

9 before preparing project budgets and doing

10 appropriations requests. The earlier we are

11 involved, those budgets and appropriations

12 requests the more accurate they can be.

13 Second, we stressed having up-to-

14 date master plans. The Navy Yard joint base,

15 Bolling-Anacostia, and Fort Belvoir being

16 three of the number we are still seeking.

17 Progress is being made on those.

18 Third, we cited the need to try to

19 have what's been described as staying power to

20 those master plans so as installation commands

21 change, the master plans don't continue to be

22 changed as well. When a master plan is

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 6 1 prepared, we like to work with them to see how

2 it can survive installation command changes.

3 The meeting was very good.

4 Everyone understood and certainly agreed with

5 the importance of master plans and how they

6 can help speed up individual projects so it

7 was a very good meeting.

8 Mr. Acosta and Shane Dettman, a

9 senior planner, and I were the three from here

10 who attended. Again, I want to acknowledge

11 Mr. Provencha's role in these meetings. He's

12 been very helpful.

13 That ends the Chairman's Report.

14 Any questions?

15 2 REPORT OF THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR

16 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: The third item

17 on the agenda is Legislative Update from Ms.

18 Schuyler.

19 I'm sorry. Excuse me. Second

20 item on the agenda is the Executive Director's

21 Report, Mr. Acosta.

22 MR. ACOSTA: Thank you, Mr.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 7 1 Chairman, and good afternoon. I just have a

2 few items that I would like to report on.

3 First of all, at your desk is a postcard

4 announcing our Federal Urban Design Element

5 Open House. This open house will be held on

6 Wednesday, November 14th at the District

7 Architecture Center on 7th Street. We

8 encourage all of you to attend if you are able

9 to.

10 I would also like to make a few

11 new introductions to our agency. I would like

12 to introduce Dereth Bush.

13 Dereth, would you please stand?

14 Dereth joined the Urban Design and

15 Plan Review Division as a community planner.

16 Ms. Bush received dual masters from City

17 Regional Planning and Architecture from

18 Georgia Institute of Technology. Prior to

19 joining NCPC Ms. Bush served as principal

20 planning technician for the Maryland National

21 Capital Park and Planning Commission.

22 I would also like to introduce

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 8 1 Maureen Tighe. Maureen joined the Physical

2 Planning Division as a community planner. Ms.

3 Tighe received dual masters, again, from City

4 Regional Planning and Architecture from

5 Georgia Tech so that makes two. Ms. Tighe was

6 a designer at Arch-Plan, Inc. before joining

7 NCPC.

8 We would like to welcome them to

9 the agency.

10 Also, I would like to announce

11 that after 41 plus years of federal service

12 including more than eight years at NCPC,

13 Phyllis Vessels, our Human Resources Officer,

14 retired yesterday. Phyllis consistently

15 provided the highest level of service to the

16 staff in managing the agency in the human

17 resources function.

18 She was a great HR officer and we

19 will certainly miss her. Very pleasant

20 demeanor and a very professional attitude at

21 this agency. We wish her the best in her

22 retirement.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 9 1 That concludes my report.

2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Thank you very

3 much. I would like to second that we will

4 miss her. She has been a veteran here and

5 she's been very good. A well-deserved

6 retirement.

7 [INSERT - Report of the Executive Director]

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 10 1 3 LEGISLATIVE UPDATE

2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Third item on

3 the agenda is the Legislative Update, Ms.

4 Schuyler.

5 MS. SCHUYLER: I have one item to

6 report. In late September in both the House

7 and the Senate a new bill pertaining to the

8 National Women's History Museum was introduced

9 to both the House and the Senate.

10 The versions in both houses are

11 identical. The idea behind the bill is to

12 create a commission to study the establishment

13 of a museum and report back to Congress and

14 the President.

15 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Thank you very

16 much.

17 Any questions for Ms. Schuyler?

18 4 CONSENT CALENDAR

19 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: The fourth item

20 on the agenda is the Consent Calendar and we

21 have two items.

22 First is item 4A, The Yards,

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 11 1 Southeast Federal Center, Parcel N.

2 Item 4B is the transfer of

3 jurisdiction of a triangular portion of land

4 bordered by Constitution Avenue, N.W.,

5 Pennsylvania, N.W., and the National Gallery

6 of Art, West Building.

7 Any questions on either of those

8 two items?

9 Hearing none, is there a motion on

10 the Consent Calendar?

11 MEMBER MAY: Moved.

12 MEMBER WRIGHT: Second.

13 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: It's been moved

14 and seconded. All in favor of the Consent

15 Calendar being passed say aye.

16 MEMBERS: Aye.

17 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Opposed no? The

18 Calendar is adopted.

19 [INSERT - Parcel N Development]

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 12

1 [INSERT - Transfer of Jurisdiction]

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 13 1 5 ACTION ITEMS - WITH PRESENTATIONS

2 5A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR NATIONAL CAPITAL

3 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: The fifth item

4 on the agendas, 5A, is Amendments to the

5 Federal Environment Element of the

6 Comprehensive Plan.

7 We have Mr. Zaidain. Welcome.

8 MR. ZAIDAIN: Thank you, Mr.

9 Chairman. Good afternoon.

10 The first agenda item in the open

11 session is the final policy adoption for the

12 update to the Federal Environment Element. As

13 many of you are aware, we are working through

14 the existing Comprehensive Plan to update the

15 elements and to evaluate the policies that

16 they contain.

17 Just to kind of give you a quick

18 status of where we are, these are all starting

19 to come to a head. The transportation element

20 was -- the final policy adoption was complete

21 in June through this Commission's action. The

22 environment element is before you today.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 14 1 Next month at the November

2 Commission meeting we will be bringing the

3 draft urban design element to you. This is a

4 brand new element for the Comprehensive Plan

5 and we've been working with the Urban Design

6 Task Force to create that element. That will

7 be coming to you for a draft release. There

8 will also be a public event held on November

9 14th for that element as our Executive

10 Director mentioned.

11 Concurrent with the release of

12 that element we will also be requesting the

13 release of the update to the historic

14 preservation element. Because there is such

15 a significant overlap between the preservation

16 and parts of the urban design element, we

17 thought it would be good to release those

18 drafts concurrently. They are still separate

19 elements but go through the public process at

20 the same time.

21 Then beyond that we are working on

22 the visitors and foreign mission elements and

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 15 1 we are targeting December for their draft

2 presentation. We are working to finalize the

3 work place element and we are also targeting

4 December for the finale of that piece.

5 Then the final element to be

6 updated will be the open space and parks

7 element and we'll begin updating that in 2013.

8 Lots forthcoming related to the Comprehensive

9 Plan.

10 Today's agenda item is the federal

11 environment element. This element was last

12 updated in 2004 and it provides policy

13 recommendations on best management practices

14 and goals for environmental stewardship for

15 federal agencies throughout the National

16 Capital Region.

17 Like all the rest of the elements

18 in the Comprehensive Plan it has specific

19 policy recommendations as well as

20 inspirational statements. Many of the

21 policies also overlap with other elements of

22 the Comprehensive Plan, particularly in this

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 16 1 case the transportation element and some of

2 the recommendations we have for the urban

3 design work.

4 Since 2004 there has been some

5 advancement and some work done throughout the

6 federal government in regards to environmental

7 stewardship. This is what we wanted to

8 account for in our update.

9 In 2007 the Energy Independence

10 and Security Act was signed which provide very

11 strict regulations regarding energy

12 conservation and building design for the

13 federal government.

14 This was followed by Executive

15 Order 13514 which we all know is a the

16 sustainability executive order which built

17 upon the 2007 law to really provide stricter

18 and stronger policy guidance to federal

19 agencies in managing their environmental

20 impacts.

21 Also, the Chesapeake Bay and

22 programs have been initiated.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 17 1 There is a strong Chesapeake Bay program that

2 was embodied in an executive order. The

3 District has been working very hard on

4 cleaning up and revitalizing the Anacostia

5 River. We wanted to reflect that work as

6 well.

7 Also climate change has become a

8 very substantial issue. Work from the

9 Environmental Protection Agency and the

10 Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments

11 has really provided some strong policy

12 direction on the climate change. We wanted to

13 reflect that in this update. As well as

14 advances in scientific research and new best

15 practices for environmental impacts.

16 Stemming from the Sustainability

17 Executive Order, every federal agency has to

18 publish a Strategic Sustainability Performance

19 Plan. As an informational piece we wanted to

20 reflect NCPCs in the environment element.

21 Some of the policy points in our

22 strategic plan include updating and expanding

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 18 1 the federal elements of the Comprehensive Plan

2 which we're still working on. Working closely

3 with the Metropolitan Washington Council of

4 Governments in advancing the Greater

5 Washington 2050. We feel like this is part of

6 our sustainability work.

7 Development a precinct scale eco-

8 district plan for 10th Street and Maryland

9 Avenue, S.W. We are presenting an eco-

10 district project which you are aware of. Also

11 implementing operational standards to help

12 reduce our greenhouse gas emissions and kind

13 of an interesting bragging point, I guess.

14 Currently over 95 percent of NCPC

15 employees walk, bike, or take public

16 transportation to work. We are doing pretty

17 well in that realm and we wanted to reflect

18 this in the environmental element.

19 Getting to the policies

20 themselves, there are 12 existing policy areas

21 ranging from air quality to soils and

22 vegetation to radio frequency or

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 19 1 telecommunication antennas.

2 We went through and evaluated

3 these areas to just update the policies and

4 see if they are consistent with current best

5 practices. We are proposing three new policy

6 areas, one being climate change, two being

7 light pollution, and three being energy

8 conservation.

9 The entire update is included in

10 your EDR and I'm just going to highlight some

11 of the updates and pay particular attention to

12 these three new policy areas.

13 To the existing areas,

14 particularly flood plains, wetlands and

15 watersheds, soil, and wildlife, we built on

16 the current approach in the environment

17 element which is to avoid impacts, protect

18 these resources and mitigate any impacts that

19 may happen.

20 There is an environmental justice

21 section of this element that provides policy

22 guidance to federal agencies. This section

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 20 1 provides policies which require open

2 evaluation of alternatives and really

3 reinforce what is required in the National

4 Environment Policy Act as in regards to public

5 participation.

6 We did strengthen the policies in

7 the vegetation section which we are now

8 calling vegetation and tree canopy. The

9 District has a very strong tree canopy. The

10 District of Columbia tree canopy increased 2.1

11 percent since 2006 with a now coverage of 37.2

12 percent. The District has a goal of 40

13 percent by 2035 so obviously coming very, very

14 close to meeting that goal within that time

15 frame.

16 The updates to the policies

17 include a stronger focus on preserving and

18 expanding the tree canopy regionally, replace

19 trees and compensate for tree canopy loss. We

20 do recommend a one-to-one replacement for most

21 trees in federal projects.

22 Also respecting local standards

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 21 1 and guidelines for tree protection. Many of

2 the local communities around the National

3 Capital Region are really focusing their

4 zoning codes and regulations on preserving

5 trees and we think the federal government

6 should strive to meet some of these

7 regulations.

8 A new section that we've added is

9 climate change and the element does reflect

10 the EPA's definition of climate change which

11 is, and I'll just read part of this, "Climate

12 change refers to any significant change in the

13 measures of climate lasting for an extended

14 period of time." We do want to build upon the

15 EPA's work regarding climate change.

16 Climate change really impacts --

17 covers a lot of ground so these policies

18 overlap with other pieces of the Comp Plan as

19 well as within the environment element itself.

20 The policies focus on long-range planning for

21 flooding, run-off, and soil erosion and

22 temperature extremes.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 22 1 It encourages sustainable building

2 design. It does set a zero-net energy

3 standard by 2030 and this is something that

4 comes out of the 2007 EISA law.

5 It encourages District-level

6 energy planning which is something we've seen

7 in the eco-districts in other projects. It

8 supports continued analysis of the impacts of

9 climate change on the National Capital Region.

10 It sets a foundation for establishing

11 partnerships to study the impacts of climate

12 change.

13 Another new policy area is light

14 pollution. In updating the environment

15 element in studying this issue we looked at

16 scientific research on how light pollution can

17 disrupt migratory patterns. It weakens the

18 cleansing of particular matter in the

19 atmosphere and basically can also waste energy

20 when you are using lighting that is

21 unnecessary.

22 The new policies look to eliminate

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 23 1 upward and horizontal spillage of light,

2 provide appropriate light controls, and

3 respect the affects and impact of light on

4 adjacent areas and surrounding context. This

5 is also something that we've gotten into in

6 the urban design element. So just really set

7 some standards for managing lighting use for

8 federal agencies.

9 The final new area is involving

10 energy conservation. We really wanted to

11 reflect many of the standards set in the 2007

12 Energy Independence and Security Act, for

13 EISA. The new policies look to reduce fossil

14 fuel generated energy consumption by 55

15 percent.

16 Thirty percent of hot water in

17 federal buildings should come from solar

18 energy and, again, reiterates the need to

19 encourage District light level energy planning

20 to pool resources and conserve energy.

21 In terms of process, we have held

22 a public comment period which ran from June

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 24 1 11th after the Commission released the draft

2 element. That comment period ran from June to

3 August and we did receive some comments and

4 those are reflected in your EDR.

5 A public meeting was held on June

6 27th so that we could present the draft

7 update. The policies were tweaked after the

8 comment period was closed. A draft narrative

9 has been added and will continue to be edited

10 as the Comp Plan is compiled.

11 This is kind of the process that

12 we're going through in updating the entire

13 Comp Plan is to keep working on the narrative

14 before it's all finalized at which time we'll

15 bring it back to the Commission for full

16 adoption.

17 So the Commission action requested

18 is that the Commission adopt the updated

19 policies to the federal environment element

20 but hold those policies in abeyance until all

21 of the federal elements of the Comprehensive

22 Plan are adopted and the Comp Plan can be

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 25 1 compiled at which time we'll bring back to you

2 for a final adoption of the entire document.

3 That's the end of my presentation

4 and I believe we do have one person signed up

5 to speak.

6 [INSERT - Federal Environment Element of the

7 Comprehensive Plan]

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 26 1 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: We do indeed.

2 We have one person signed up to speak, Mr.

3 Lindsley Williams.

4 [INSERT - SPEAKER LIST]

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 27 1 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Mr. Williams,

2 welcome. If you're representing yourself you

3 have three minutes.

4 MR. WILLIAMS: Members of the

5 Commission, my name is Lindsley Williams,

6 sometimes known as trouble. I'm here to

7 actually support the adoption that's been

8 recommended holding things in abeyance but to

9 bring to your attention three things that came

10 to my attention as I reviewed the document

11 over the weekend.

12 I had two "oh my" moments and one

13 "bingo" moment. The two "oh my" moments

14 relate to the statement of the goal which I

15 found incredibly uninspiring. I took at a

16 crack at trying to give you some words.

17 I don't want you to take what I've

18 written as "take it or leave it" but just to

19 put it before you that these are things that

20 need attention and the goal, it seems to me,

21 is one of those areas that needs attention.

22 The second area that needs

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 28 1 attention, and I'm thinking particularly of

2 the D.C. contribution to the effort in the

3 Southwest Eco-district, is to get it more

4 fully recognized and that will be coming up to

5 you for adoption in, I believe, January. I

6 think it all fits with the time line that has

7 been identified to you in the slides.

8 The final thing which was my sort

9 of "bingo" moment was the realization that we

10 all struggled to meet the requirements of the

11 stormwater management system. There are

12 requirements that are honest because of EPA

13 and because of the problems they're trying to

14 address.

15 We need to see if there's a way to

16 figure out ways of accessing what I call for

17 the moment, not having a better term,

18 unessential. That's not surplus but

19 unessential federal lands so that they can be

20 multi-purposed into solving environmental

21 problems, particularly those related to

22 stormwater, as well as getting on with their

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 29 1 primary purpose of whatever the installation

2 is in question and, at the same time, not

3 causing security issues.

4 That's what the gist of my letter

5 is all about. I don't want to try to read the

6 letter. You also have a supplemental letter,

7 I believe, from David Tuchmann who was

8 explaining, in perhaps a little more detail

9 than I did, what this is all about.

10 I think what David has

11 recommended, David Zaidain has recommended,

12 the Executive Director has recommended is hold

13 these things, modify them as the plans are

14 developed, and I see all three of these things

15 as being something that are potentially

16 amenable to being included and would ask you

17 to sort of nudge staff in that direction but

18 basically go forward with the adoption that's

19 before you. Thank you very much.

20 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Thank you, Mr.

21 Williams.

22 Anyone have any comments or

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 30 1 questions for Mr. Willams?

2 MEMBER MAY: I'm still getting

3 used to the new microphones. I wanted to

4 understand better from you what you regard as

5 unessential land.

6 MR. WILLIAMS: I'm not proud of

7 that word, Mr. May. What I was trying to do

8 is to make sure that I did not use the word

9 surplus because that sets all kinds of alarm

10 bells that makes it sounds like it's not

11 needed.

12 I'm thinking of a range of things

13 that could occur to both give value and solve

14 problems. There are places that involve a

15 buffer strip. Thirty years ago I was involved

16 with an effort to find a solution to a chiller

17 plant that Metro wanted to put into the middle

18 of a residential community in Woodley Park.

19 We found a solution for that by

20 putting it in the buffer, by suggesting and

21 then getting approvals for putting it in the

22 buffer strip of the National Zoological Park.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 31 1 Mr. May has brought before you

2 some ideas about trying to figure out what we

3 can do to get better grass to grow on the

4 Mall. Right now the Mall, particularly the

5 western part of the Mall, is sitting on muck

6 which was dredged up and not very good at

7 absorbing water.

8 It's the kind of thing which if it

9 were repurposed so that it had a really good

10 kind of preparation for it, it could probably

11 become a receiving zone for water and not

12 cause the run-offs that we're experiencing.

13 That's valuable to people that

14 have to meet this EPA requirement and it's not

15 essential if you can get under it and use it

16 and still have the green surface for the

17 people of American to walk on.

18 I look at installations of the

19 Defense Department which have considerable

20 acreage and I'm presuming that there are

21 locations within that which might be wetlands

22 or could be made to better hold back water

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 32 1 from cascading down the Anacostia or down Rock

2 Creek. There is an outfall in the upper end

3 of which is getting scoured a

4 lot. There may be things that can be done.

5 All I'm trying to do is say let's

6 see if there is a way in which federal lands

7 and stewards of those lands can partner with

8 those that have problems that need to be

9 solved and have two problems solved at once

10 instead of just one set of requirements that

11 is imposed which can sometimes prove to be

12 really nettlesome in the development world.

13 That's what I had in mind.

14 MEMBER MAY: Okay. I guess you

15 need to work on what the right word is.

16 MR. WILLIAMS: We do.

17 MEMBER MAY: Because, you know,

18 what you talked about that might occur on park

19 land are certainly uses that we are looking at

20 on a regular basis but we would never want to

21 characterize that land as unessential.

22 MR. WILLIAMS: And I wouldn't want

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 33 1 you to either.

2 MEMBER MAY: Okay. I would be

3 concerned if there was a mandate to do those

4 things where other agencies we're doing it now

5 on a voluntary basis and we see the value in

6 it and we want to do everything we can to help

7 our federal partners when we can. We've had

8 some discussions about taking on extra water,

9 for example, in certain areas.

10 MR. WILLIAMS: I hope the members

11 of the Commission saw that what I was trying

12 to suggest was not a mandate but basically a

13 right to knock on the door and say, "May we."

14 That's what I wanted to see, if we could get

15 it more formally expressed so that as

16 opportunities and constraints come along that

17 there is something in writing that says this

18 is a good thing to try.

19 MEMBER MAY: I think you can be

20 encouraged by the fact that a lot of those

21 conversations are already happening driven by

22 a number of causes.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 34 1 I mean, our biggest cause might be

2 the idea of eliminating the Potomac tunnel

3 that is part of the long-term control plan now

4 known as the Clean River Project which would

5 have tremendous and devastating impacts on

6 portions of Rock Creek and the C&O Canal Park

7 if it's built the way it's conceived right

8 now.

9 MEMBER TREGONING: I think this is

10 a really intriguing idea and I think the

11 concept that you might be trying to convey is

12 that whatever the primary purpose of the

13 federal land might be that it might also be

14 able to serve that primary purpose and serve

15 additional purposes that have an environmental

16 benefit. I think that really is an important

17 concept to sort of put out there.

18 Twenty percent of the land in the

19 city is parkland. Most of that is federal.

20 Twenty percent of the land is roads and alleys

21 and driveways. We are looking at the city at

22 repurposing our streets, our rights-of-way, to

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 35 1 see could they do more to benefit the

2 environment including actually managing and

3 storing stormwater.

4 I think it would be an important

5 contribution to look at all the lands that are

6 available in the city to see if we could put

7 them to additional purposes that might be

8 mutually beneficial and I think it's a great

9 suggestion.

10 MR. WILLIAMS: If I might just

11 add, first of all, I wish I had you as co-

12 author. Second, I did not restrict my remarks

13 to District-located federal land.

14 It seems to me that if we can do

15 this, and we're trying to do a policy element

16 for the region, if there is a solution that

17 can be had up the Anacostia and if it's in

18 Prince George's County but still on federal

19 land and it helps me, it helps address the

20 problems of the Anacostia as well as a

21 development site in the District, I don't see

22 that it should be off limits.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 36 1 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Mr. Miller.

2 MEMBER MILLER: Am I on? I'm on.

3 I missed the training session for that last

4 month.

5 Good afternoon. Lindsley, I think

6 all three of your suggestions are worthy of

7 consideration and I would add my voice to

8 yours and others to nudge the staff to maybe

9 incorporate them somehow. My question is did

10 you offer these comments previously during the

11 public comment period?

12 MR. WILLIAMS: No. I have to

13 confess and that's why I identified myself as

14 trouble. I did not see these things until I

15 did a final read over the weekend.

16 The other factor that came to

17 mind, particularly as to the third item, this

18 multipurposing or whatever, I've just become

19 increasingly aware of the difficulty being

20 faced by the pending stormwater regulations.

21 There was, to use another aquatic

22 term, a confluence of factors that led me to

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 37 1 do this. I saw the opportunity to make these

2 comments in the public session, but more

3 particularly the nature of the process that

4 they recommended by your director is to hold

5 all these things in abeyance. I said there's

6 the window of opportunity. I can make

7 comments and not derail the train.

8 MEMBER TREGONING: Would it be

9 appropriate for -- I guess Commission action

10 is final adoption. Should we put a motion out

11 that might be amended?

12 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: I was actually

13 going to ask if the action is for final

14 adoption but we are holding it in abeyance,

15 what position does that put us in to consider

16 some arguably minor but important changes?

17 MR. ACOSTA: You could either make

18 the amendments right now or, as Mr. Zaidain

19 also mentioned, you will be seeing the final

20 plan when it's all completed and you'll be

21 adopting that. We could also point where you

22 made the changes in that document. You could

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 38 1 do either.

2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: So there is

3 still time.

4 MR. ACOSTA: Yes, there's still

5 time to change it because, as David noted,

6 we're going to change some of the narrative.

7 Also there may be other things we find.

8 You'll have another shot at making

9 corrections. If you want us to do it, you

10 could also make the --

11 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Instead of us

12 trying to make changes on the fly, why don't

13 we -- I think staff has got the sense of the

14 Commission that we're more than mildly

15 interested in Mr. Williams' suggestions.

16 Perhaps we give some considered thought to it

17 and work with Mr. Williams as well and maybe

18 bring back amendments later. Is that okay?

19 Ms. Tregoning, is that all right?

20 MEMBER TREGONING: I'm just

21 looking at the language of the Commission

22 action which is final adoption of the updated

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 39 1 policy so I'm just trying to figure out --

2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: That was one of

3 my questions as well.

4 MEMBER TREGONING: Can we call it

5 interim adoption?

6 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Yeah, what

7 posture does that put us in?

8 MR. ZAIDAIN: Well, when we bring

9 the full document back for final adoption to

10 put it into effect, as part of that Commission

11 action we can point out any changes to the

12 policies that may have occurred from the

13 previous adoption if any.

14 MEMBER TREGONING: Can we just

15 call it adoption and not final adoption? Can

16 I make that amendment once we've got the

17 motion?

18 MR. ZAIDAIN: We'll make this a

19 point of the EDR. This change and any other

20 ones that may come up before we bring the

21 whole thing to you we'll make that a point of

22 the EDR when we bring it back.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 40 1 MR. ACOSTA: I guess the point

2 would be either we could wordsmith it right

3 now to reflect kind of the final policies, or

4 just bring it back to you when the whole thing

5 comes together. We can point out what the

6 changes are that you adopted but take out the

7 final.

8 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Okay. Let me

9 get the sense of staff. Do you want us to lay

10 this on the table temporarily for this meeting

11 and let you guys look at it and maybe adopt it

12 now and get it over with, or hold off and work

13 on it a little bit and bring it back when we

14 adopt the final final document?

15 MR. ACOSTA: I think you could

16 adopt it today with Ms. Tregoning's suggestion

17 to strike final off to give us some assurance

18 that not everything is settled. We'll bring

19 the entire Comp Plan back to you early next

20 year for final adoption. That would just make

21 it clear to everybody. Then we'll also point

22 out where the changes have been made to

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 41 1 reflect Mr. Williams' comments at the time.

2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: All right. Is

3 there a motion on the EDR to amend the EDR to

4 strike the word final?

5 MEMBER WHITE: So moved.

6 MEMBER WRIGHT: Second.

7 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: It's been moved

8 and seconded. All in favor of that amendment

9 say aye.

10 MEMBERS: Aye.

11 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Opposed no?

12 That amendment to the EDR is adopted.

13 Any further discussion?

14 Mr. Hart.

15 MEMBER HART: This is not on the

16 amendment of the EDR. I was pleased to see

17 the inclusion of climate change in this

18 environmental element. What I was looking for

19 in that discussion was really a bit more

20 pointed objectives of assessing the hazards

21 that climate change may impose on the

22 environment that we have come accustomed to.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 42 1 In particular, the potential rise

2 in sea level and its affect on the shoreline,

3 things like that, on the shoreline. I would

4 encourage that in the support of the analysis

5 impacts that there be a lot more attention

6 given to potential future land impacts of

7 climate change and, in particular, sea level

8 rise.

9 One foot of sea level rise creates

10 a dramatic change to the shoreline, to the

11 areas that are subject to inundation and flood

12 hazard. I've heard predictions of six to 12

13 feet over the next century of rise.

14 I don't know how legitimate those

15 predictions are but I think given the fact

16 that there's a history of increasing sea level

17 across the globe and the affects of climate on

18 the polar ice caps, that some analysis be

19 given to what is the potential impact, whether

20 it is realistic or projected simply based on

21 some of the past history I think would be very

22 useful.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 43 1 We are a planning agency. We look

2 to the future and we try to study the worse-

3 case scenarios and how to prevent that. I

4 applaud the inclusion of climate change. I

5 would like to see it become the beginning of

6 some significant analysis. Thank you.

7 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Other comments?

8 I had just one question for Mr. Zaidain.

9 I noticed in the public comment

10 section, what few public comments there were,

11 they were all concentrated on solid waste and

12 recycling. Our general response was we don't

13 have authority over solid waste and recycling

14 yet.

15 Elsewhere in the document we do

16 talk about solid waste and recycling in terms

17 of environmental justice. Then in our playing

18 documents kind of like with the southwest eco-

19 district we get into it.

20 So there is not a disconnect

21 between public comment and other evidence to

22 the contrary, can you explain in context why

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 44 1 we don't have authority in terms of what they

2 are asking, yet we do address solid waste and

3 recycling?

4 MR. ZAIDAIN: Maybe I didn't word

5 it correctly in the responses but essentially

6 my understanding of the public comments they

7 were about the certification of recycling

8 centers and solid waste management centers.

9 The USEPA and other agencies

10 certify those types of establishments and we

11 don't. The policies in the Comp Plan are more

12 about what federal agencies should do to

13 manage their solid waste but not so much the

14 certification of facilities.

15 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: I was just

16 looking for some clarification.

17 Sensing no additional questions or

18 comments, is there a motion on adopting as

19 amended the EDR on environmental elements?

20 MEMBER HART: So moved.

21 MEMBER MILLER: Second.

22 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: It's been moved

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 45 1 and seconded. All in favor of the amended EDR

2 say aye.

3 MEMBERS: Aye.

4 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Opposed no.

5 It's unanimously adopted. Thank you, Mr.

6 Zaidain, very much.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 46 1 5B NEW COMMISSARY AT FORT BELVOIR

2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Item 5B on the

3 agenda is the new commissary at Fort Belvoir

4 and we have Mr. Weil.

5 Welcome.

6 MR. WEIL: Thank you. Good

7 afternoon. This is a new commissary project

8 to be located on the north post portion of

9 Fort Belvoir in Fairfax County, Virginia.

10 This project is submitted by the Department of

11 the Army for preliminary building and site

12 development plan review.

13 Fort Belvoir is located

14 approximately 12 miles south of Washington,

15 D.C. just to the east of I-95. Here is a map

16 that shows the Fort and the project location

17 is shown with the red circle as being on the

18 north post.

19 Here is a closeup air photo

20 showing the existing condition. There is the

21 post exchange building and the existing

22 commissary building. There is a larger

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 47 1 planning effort to plan a North Post Town

2 Center which requires the shifting of the post

3 exchange building and the commissary building

4 to the northwest.

5 The Commission reviewed the post

6 exchange project three different times during

7 2010 and 2011. The future post exchange

8 center is currently undergoing construction

9 and is scheduled for opening in 2013.

10 Once that facility is operational

11 the existing post exchange building shown

12 there will be demolished and the future

13 commissary building will be relocated on the

14 site of the existing post exchange building.

15 During the Commission review of

16 the post exchange there were several

17 Commission concerns related to that project,

18 in particular, the large-scale tree removal

19 required by that project, the stormwater

20 management plans, and also a seeming lack of

21 design to the proposed town center plan.

22 This is essentially the place

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 48 1 holder design that was included in the

2 environmental assessment which was done in

3 2010 for that North Post Town Center. You

4 will note the proposed or the future post

5 exchange is the red square and the future

6 commissary building is the blue square.

7 In response to the Commission

8 concerns over the poor design of the northwest

9 town center, the Army worked with NCPC staff

10 to refine that town center concept.

11 The direction we were given due to

12 the relatively late planning stages,

13 relatively late in the planning process for

14 both the post exchange building and the

15 commissary, as well as the financial

16 constraints for the PX and the commissary, the

17 direction we were given was that while those

18 two pieces were essentially fixed as to their

19 forms, the rest of the post town center was a

20 relatively clean slate. NCPC staff worked

21 very closely with the Army to try to redesign

22 that portion of the town center.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 49 1 We looked at some existing

2 examples of successful existing and planned

3 town center-like developments within the

4 region. All of these town center developments

5 cater to both a regional clientele as well as

6 a local clientele which is similar to the

7 North Post Town Center.

8 The Army redesigned the North Post

9 Town Center to reflect a better design. They

10 incorporated a better circulation network

11 throughout the development. They incorporated

12 several special nodes where some special

13 place-making attention would enter into their

14 design. They really increased their mix of

15 uses in the new town center development.

16 In particular, they added some housing which

17 is shown in blue.

18 They also took a step back and

19 really made an effort to really foster more

20 walking, more bicycling, and more transient

21 usage between the existing and planned uses

22 directly adjacent to the new town center, in

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 50 1 particular, south of Gorgas Road and the

2 relatively large residential development

3 located to the southeast of the development

4 known as Lewis Village.

5 One of the other significant

6 design improvements that came out of that

7 effort was the design of a pedestrian

8 promenade that was intended to entice walkers

9 to walk between the more regional uses, the PX

10 center and the commissary, and the rest of the

11 more local town center development. I'll show

12 you that in a few slides.

13 Here is the actual commissary

14 building. This shows the typical red brick

15 facade that is pretty standard throughout Fort

16 Belvoir. This appearance meets the

17 installation design guidelines and is fairly

18 similar to the PX shopping center.

19 Here is a proposed floor plan for

20 the new 140,000 square foot commissary

21 building. This is being designed to meet LEED

22 Silver certification with a cool roof

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 51 1 primarily on the ground level. There will be

2 a 7,500 square foot elevated mezzanine level

3 for staff only.

4 Here is a larger commissary site

5 development plan. You can see the commissary

6 building will be situated in between the new

7 PX shopping center to the left and the rest of

8 the future town center development to the

9 right. I should note that the north is to the

10 left side of the slide.

11 In particular, in this particular

12 site plan, I want to draw your attention to

13 the fact that there will be a shared single

14 use parking facility for customers intended to

15 be shared by both the PX center and the

16 commissary. The customer parking for the

17 commissary will essentially just be expanding

18 the PX center customer lot to the south.

19 Here is a closer view of the site

20 plan. Commercial loading and vendor parking

21 provided along the east side of the commissary

22 in the rear of the building. A separate

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 52 1 employee parking lot with 66 spaces provided

2 to the south as well as future expansion

3 space. And, again, the 522 customer parking

4 lot located along the west side of the

5 building.

6 Here is the pedestrian promenade

7 forecourt area that will be located directly

8 in front of the commissary building. Again,

9 this was a design improvement that came out of

10 the redesign of the North Post Town Center

11 development effort.

12 Here is a closeup of that

13 pedestrian promenade. Again, this will

14 provide a critical segment as part of that

15 pedestrian spine that will encourage walkers

16 between the more local uses to the south and

17 the PX center and the new commissary.

18 You can see the original design to

19 the bottom. It was primarily designed simply

20 as an impervious plaza. The new design still

21 consist of that decorative stamped concrete.

22 However, there's a lot more seating included

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 53 1 now, a lot more pervious surface through

2 planting beds.

3 An effort was really made to try

4 to green it up to provide more of a parkway

5 setting, an environment and space where people

6 would want to gather and congregate and to

7 walk.

8 Here's some renderings showing

9 that newly designed space. This is looking

10 north towards the PX shopping center with the

11 commissary on the right. This is looking

12 southeast back across the space towards one of

13 the proposed commissary entrances. This is a

14 step-back elevated view looking to the

15 northwest. You can see the proposed PX

16 shopping center building to the left and the

17 commissary building to the right.

18 With that, staff reviewed the site

19 development plan. Staff noted that the

20 proposed customer lot is 80 spaces fewer than

21 the existing customer lot for the commissary.

22 The proposed commissary space is

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 54 1 approximately 80 percent larger than the

2 existing commissary. The parking that is

3 provided in the current site plan is less than

4 the amount of customer parking that would be

5 required by Fairfax County for a similar-size

6 development.

7 Staff also noted that the proposed

8 customer parking will be part of a shared use

9 single parking lot to try to encourage as

10 efficient of a customer utilization as

11 possible. However, staff has requested from

12 the Army more detailed customer demand

13 forecast information to really ensure that the

14 customer lot is as minimal as possible.

15 Staff also questioned the need for

16 a fully separate employee lot as well and was

17 wondering if that employee parking could also

18 be accommodated in the shared customer lot as

19 proposed.

20 In terms of stormwater management,

21 the Applicant has indicated that the site

22 design will meet Fairfax County, the

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 55 1 Commonwealth of Virginia, EISA, and Chesapeake

2 Bay Protection Act standards. However, due to

3 the preliminary nature of the design, it has

4 not been finalized to a point yet where you

5 can see those definitive values and really

6 ensure that it will meet those design

7 standards.

8 Staff notes that the proposed

9 design will utilize pervious concrete spaces

10 similar to the PX shopping center parking lot

11 which will help reduce the amount of

12 stormwater impacts.

13 The parking lot will utilize bio-

14 swales and other low-impact development

15 features as much as possible. Again, staff

16 wanted to bring to your attention the improved

17 forecourt area, pedestrian promenade area,

18 which now has a significantly better design

19 and a lot more pervious surface that the

20 existing design and it really kind of ties

21 both the commissary and the PX center more

22 successfully into the rest of the town center

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 56 1 design.

2 [INSERT - New Commissary]

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 57

1 [INSERT - Framework Development Plan]

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 58

1 [INSERT - Letter from Col. Strycula]

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 59 1 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Mr. Weil,

2 further define how much pervious concrete or

3 pervious space is there in the great scheme of

4 things relative to the first design? How much

5 additional is there now than what was

6 proposed?

7 MR. WEIL: Well, I can tell you

8 that approximately 68 percent of the surface

9 area, the parking surface area, will be

10 pervious concrete.

11 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Okay. That's

12 helpful.

13 MR. WEIL: Compared with zero

14 percent before.

15 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: That's helpful.

16 Thank you.

17 MR. WEIL: However, staff received

18 an income information package related to the

19 project reforestation and has requested

20 additional information from the Army on their

21 reforestation plan for the project.

22 Again, staff noted that due to the

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 60 1 preliminary nature of the stormwater design,

2 staff wanted to hold off on recommending

3 approval to ensure that it will, in fact, meet

4 all those various design standards.

5 That is the Executive Director's

6 recommendation to the Commission to approve

7 the preliminary building plans for the new

8 commissary but to defer action on the

9 preliminary site development plan due to

10 inadequate information on the Applicant's

11 reforestation plan, as well as proposed

12 parking and stormwater management plan.

13 And request that prior to

14 submitting for preliminary and final approval

15 of site development plans for the commissary,

16 the Applicant should provide the following:

17 Information on the tree

18 reforestation plan being developed for the

19 master plan update; documentation on the

20 project's compliance with stormwater

21 management standards for Fairfax County,

22 Commonwealth of Virginia, EISA, and Chesapeake

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 61 1 Bay Protection and Restoration Act; and a

2 detailed forecast or projected customer demand

3 for the shared parking lot to recommend the

4 elimination of a separate employee lot.

5 And to note that the Applicant has

6 worked with NCPC staff on the development of

7 a North Post Town Center small area plan in

8 response to previous Commission comments and

9 concerns, but that final North Post Town

10 Center plan will not be available until a

11 draft master plan is submitted to the

12 Commission for review in early 2013.

13 That concludes my presentation.

14 I'm now available to answer any questions. We

15 also have Chris Landgraf here from Fort

16 Belvoir who can answer any questions as well.

17 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: I have one

18 question. If the employee parking lot is

19 eliminated, is that to say it will become

20 green space or what is anticipated?

21 MR. WEIL: That is our hope. Our

22 hope that by having a shared used facility,

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 62 1 that facility will have an appropriate number

2 of parking spaces that can accommodate that

3 employee parking as well to create a more

4 efficient parking facility.

5 Yes, our hope would be that space

6 would be green and would be additional

7 pervious space. Also people wouldn't have to

8 necessarily walk across the parking lot to

9 reach the rest of the town center development.

10 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Questions or

11 comments?

12 Mr. May.

13 MEMBER MAY: On the same subject,

14 the employee parking lot, there was a leap of

15 logic that I missed somehow in my reading of

16 the EDR in that it is noted that the employee

17 parking lot is larger than NCPC standards or

18 our standards.

19 There was no explanation of why

20 that simply means the best thing to do is to

21 eliminate it entirely. There is certainly

22 some logical practical reasons why one would

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 63 1 want to have a separate employee parking lot.

2 Having worked at a facility

3 similar to this a million years ago, the

4 policy was always the employees had to park

5 farthest away so the customers could park

6 closer but that's not a very easy thing to

7 enforce. I'm wonderful what the logic is of

8 not wanting to have any kind of separate

9 employee parking.

10 MR. WEIL: Well, basically that

11 was a recommendation based on the parking

12 demand information that we have which is

13 really no information. We just want to make

14 sure that the amount of pervious surface is as

15 minimal as possible in light of the past

16 history of the PX shopping center project.

17 That was just a thought on our part that maybe

18 that could be eliminated until proven

19 otherwise.

20 MEMBER MAY: It was just an

21 attempt to get rid of six parking spaces or

22 whatever it was.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 64 1 MR. WEIL: Right. Correct. And

2 really make sure that any sort of pervious --

3 MEMBER MAY: Because you thought

4 there were too many spaces because the only

5 thing it says in the report is that there are

6 seven too many or something like that.

7 MR. WEIL: Right. Well, I did

8 note, correct, that the proposed employee

9 parking did exceed the parking ratio goal in

10 the Comprehensive Plan.

11 MEMBER MAY: Right.

12 MR. WEIL: But, again, in an

13 effort to try to minimize the amount of

14 pervious surface on site, maybe that parking,

15 that separate parking lot, could be fully

16 eliminated and that employee parking could be

17 accommodated within the larger shared parking

18 facility.

19 DR. GLATZ: I have a question.

20 Peter, are you finished?

21 MEMBER MAY: Go ahead.

22 DR. GLATZ: How does Fort Belvoir

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 65 1 feel about this? What was the rationale? Do

2 we have anyone to answer that question? Do we

3 have a Fort Belvoir representative? I would

4 really like to know.

5 Before you speak I just want to

6 make one thing aware, pervious surface. I'm

7 an incredible environmentalist. I believe in

8 what you all believe but I am also a

9 structural expert and I want to make everyone

10 aware that pervious concrete has absolutely

11 zero structural value.

12 In order to make it work we have

13 to have the right base. If we don't have the

14 right base for it, we have to build the right

15 base. Otherwise, we will have similar

16 problems.

17 When we talk about the six parking

18 spaces could not be accommodated as they are

19 or be pervious, I would like to know how the

20 requirements came about and how do you feel

21 about the ratios which I have a hard time to

22 deal with, too, where we were just building

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 66 1 our TMP for the Pentagon. I would like to see

2 what led you to actually asking for those

3 parking spaces? Could any one of you answer

4 this question?

5 MR. LANDGRAF: We originally

6 requested the spaces based on the total

7 employee staff load for the largest shift. We

8 recognize the fact that we have between 60 and

9 70 full-time permanent employees, and then we

10 have about 53 during the peak shift temporary

11 employees that come in on two four-hour shift

12 changeover times.

13 The parking lot was requested

14 based on that. It was also based on the fact

15 that during that time we have vendors and

16 companies that actually come in during the

17 morning and the afternoon to restock based on

18 heavy demand.

19 What wasn't clearly submitted to

20 the Commission and to the staff, and our

21 design team is actually looking back into

22 based on Michael's questions, is that we do

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 67 1 actually need some of those parking spaces to

2 be designated specifically for the vendor

3 parking so that they can come in the backside

4 of the -- they are coming in smaller vehicles

5 than tractor trailers so they would need

6 spaces that are dedicated for them to be able

7 to off load their materials, bring it into the

8 backside, restock the shelves, and then leave

9 again.

10 That actually occurs throughout

11 the day according to the current commissary

12 operations manager. We are relooking at it

13 based on Michael's comment. I would like to

14 point out, and I did bring this to Michael's

15 attention just yesterday afternoon, that the

16 reason we had placed the employee parking on

17 that portion of the design plan was because it

18 also serves as a secondary use for emergency

19 vehicle access.

20 This is a 140,000 square feet

21 facility, as Michael said. The front part of

22 it is actually a two-story facility and so we

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 68 1 need three-sided access to this facility for

2 firefighting purposes should that ever have to

3 occur.

4 We really won't be able to

5 eliminate, even if we eliminate the parking or

6 we minimize it to the maximum extent practical

7 and get it back under our standards, there

8 will most likely have to be a drive aisle on

9 that side that is at least 24 feet wide to

10 accommodate a ladder truck given the size of

11 this facility.

12 We are looking at it and we do

13 agree that we had seven parking spaces too

14 many listed and we have already brought that

15 to the design team and are prepared to deal

16 with that question in the final submission.

17 MR. WEIL: And also I just want to

18 add something. What I told Chris on the

19 phone, and hopefully this will answer Mr.

20 May's question, again, we just want to know if

21 that employee lot could be fully eliminated.

22 I think the reason why it still

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 69 1 pointed out the fact that there were too many

2 parking spaces based on the ratio was that if

3 it can't be eliminated due to requirements,

4 such as Chris just said, you know, I was just

5 noting that it was still too many employee

6 spaces for that separate parking lot.

7 If the Army decides that they do

8 need a fully separate employee lot, then they

9 should note that based on the goal that they

10 should have no more than 59 spaces.

11 MR. LANDGRAF: And we agree and we

12 are looking at the parking requirements.

13 Again, going to fully identified employee

14 spaces versus flagged spaces that are

15 specifically for vendors, which would be co-

16 located but marked so that they are not for

17 employee parking.

18 Then to answer your question, we

19 are actually doing the full-spectrum analysis

20 for pervious pavement. We've done some

21 borings to determine what our infiltration

22 rates are. We are building our pavement so

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 70 1 that we have a suitable substructure because

2 we don't want failure of the porous concrete.

3 DR. GLATZ: Thank you for answer

4 my question.

5 MR. LANDGRAF: Thank you.

6 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Mr. May, did you

7 have anything else?

8 MEMBER MAY: I don't have

9 questions but when we're ready to discuss it

10 I --

11 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Let's finish the

12 questions.

13 Ms. Tregoning.

14 MEMBER TREGONING: I guess it's a

15 question. I mean, you made it very clear that

16 the PX is now under construction and is sort

17 of not part of the conversation, but I will

18 just point out I think it's somewhat tragic

19 that the PX and the commissary couldn't have

20 been situated across the street from each

21 other and created more of a town center. Now

22 one entire side of this development is all

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 71 1 parking.

2 In general that's just really bad

3 urban design in terms of getting -- you know,

4 you want two-sided retail and you could have

5 actually had all of the same uses and all of

6 the same parking even accommodated in a way

7 that would have been a lot more pedestrian

8 friendly and, frankly, made it more likely

9 that people would walk to those destinations.

10 I will just say it's a tragically

11 missed opportunity and I'm sorry that the Army

12 decided to go ahead with this project and not

13 have taken the time to consider those other

14 ideas.

15 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Other comments

16 or questions?

17 MEMBER WRIGHT: I'm sorry. You

18 opened up the door with the word tragic. I

19 just have to say something about the design

20 quality of these structures. Even though --

21 we are a planning agency so just a small

22 suggestion.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 72 1 If you are going to -- I note that

2 we advised a two-story building so there's

3 this gesture towards the two-story building

4 with these clear story windows that run the

5 length of the mezzanine for the staff offices.

6 Even though they don't run the length of the

7 building, just as a gesture you might continue

8 the fenestration just for grins.

9 I mean, it's just too bad. It

10 could have been much nicer on not just an

11 urban design context but just from -- you

12 know, this whole notion of retail and big

13 stores whether it's a commissary or PX or

14 whatever, you know, we came to some idea 25

15 years ago that big box stores equal town

16 centers somehow.

17 That is not the Army's fault.

18 That we are perpetuating that idea and calling

19 this a town center is among the other

20 tragedies here. I get on Figure 8 the

21 forecourt. It's a really nice attempt to

22 green-up and make some -- take away some of

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 73 1 the impervious acreage on the site.

2 I would ask that you demand more of your

3 designers because I cannot -- I don't know.

4 Maybe people do hang out in front

5 of the commissary but this is not going to be

6 a place that I think you are going to spend a

7 lot of money maintaining it all for nought

8 unless people behave very differently on an

9 Army base than they do in regular life. Maybe

10 they do but it just feels like enterprise

11 lost. Sorry. I can't help myself. I'll be

12 quiet now.

13 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Mr. May.

14 MEMBER MAY: Okay. Since we

15 started down this path, I couldn't agree more

16 with both Ms. Tregoning's comments and Ms.

17 Wright's comments. I mean, this is just --

18 it's almost painful having to review this

19 because of the failings on an urban design

20 level and an architectural level.

21 I mean, the difference between a

22 big box shopping center and a town center is

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 74 1 that you take one box and you turn it around

2 and face it to the other box and they haven't

3 even done that here.

4 MEMBER HART: And it's more than

5 that.

6 MEMBER MAY: Well, I mean, on the

7 most basic level. This is not -- I mean, this

8 doesn't come close to really being a town

9 center, it's the idea of it. But it is what

10 it is. They are very big boxes and I don't

11 think that there is anything we can do to

12 change the fact that they are going to be

13 building very big boxes. I mean, the best we

14 can hope for is better architecture and maybe

15 some slightly better planning and I'm not

16 seeing either of them here.

17 I don't see that it's grounds at

18 this point to say no because I think we've

19 been down that same no road before and it

20 doesn't seem to do very much, although there

21 is some evidence that it has done something.

22 I guess we have to accept this as what we're

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 75 1 going to get in this circumstance. I agree

2 whole heartedly this is just not very good.

3 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Other questions

4 or comments? Hearing none, is there a motion

5 to approve the EDR as written?

6 MEMBER TREGONING: Point of order.

7 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Please.

8 MEMBER TREGONING: Given how the

9 Commission members feel about this and given

10 how without our approval the PX went under

11 construction, why should we approve it is my

12 question.

13 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: This is advisory

14 but we've also made certain information

15 requests that if we don't act on this

16 whatsoever, we're not under any obligation to

17 have -- they are not under any obligation to

18 bring to us. There is hope to do additional

19 work on parking and such. I don't think it's

20 very good not to act at all or to act in the

21 negative.

22 MEMBER TREGONING: We don't have

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 76 1 to act to approve.

2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: We don't have to

3 act to --

4 MEMBER WRIGHT: I'm not sure that

5 I agree with Mr. May that we have no choice

6 but to accept it. I mean, yeah, the universe

7 has no choice but to accept it, it's under

8 construction. But sometimes symbolism is

9 important and bad design is bad design

10 perpetrated by any federal entity.

11 I find it hard to believe that if

12 GSA were to bring a project of this design

13 quality before the Commission, even through we

14 are a planning Commission, the lines between

15 planning and design are quite blurry

16 sometimes.

17 I find it difficult to say we

18 think this is okay. I'm not just -- I feel

19 like this is Groundhog Day over and over and

20 over again. I don't get why we criticize and

21 we say, "Please don't do this. We advise you

22 not to do this." Then every time we say, "But

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 77 1 okay."

2 I'm not inclined to vote for this.

3 I'm certainly not going to move it and I

4 probably will vote no just because I think

5 sometimes it matters to say, "No thank you.

6 Maybe you've made some effort here but it's

7 not quite good enough."

8 MEMBER MAY: I would add -- in

9 response to that I would just say I think

10 there actually has been a little bit of

11 movement and a step in the right direction.

12 I think we are sending a fairly strong message

13 by even having this discussion.

14 I would hate to think that if we

15 voted against it now that the result would be

16 that they would just ignore us. I mean, we

17 have an official process for ignoring us, I

18 know. I think if there is any progress at all

19 and if the staff thinks it's in our best --

20 it's best to advance this even with a tepid

21 vote in favor, maybe that is the best thing to

22 do.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 78 1 MEMBER WRIGHT: Just a question?

2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Hang on a

3 second. I will say that there has been

4 progress made in staff consultation. For

5 example, this is being built on a previously

6 developed site. There has been advances made

7 in parking and stormwater so there has been

8 effective consultation and progress being made

9 between the staffs. I will say that.

10 Also, I will say that some of this

11 is bred by not having an updated master plan,

12 as we all know. The status of the master plan

13 is, again, reflecting on our meeting at DoD

14 yesterday, the Navy, the Army, and the Air

15 Force and military command all to a person

16 understood not only why generally we want

17 updated master plans but they also understand

18 that it's to their benefit process-wise to do

19 this.

20 I have no doubt of their

21 commitment to getting us the master plan

22 because they are working pretty diligently.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 79 1 On this particular master plan I would say

2 that -- correct me if I'm misremembering but

3 it was suppose to be to us this fall.

4 They are three or four months

5 behind so perhaps the first of the year. One

6 could argue they are only three or four months

7 behind which is perhaps something given that

8 it's been years not having any at all. Those

9 are my thoughts.

10 Ms. Wright and then Mr. Hart.

11 MEMBER WRIGHT: That's good but

12 it's a day late and a dollar short and it's

13 just filling out the paperwork really. What

14 I'm talking about is inspirational and setting

15 standards that aren't necessarily goals that

16 are dictated by regulatory goals but rather

17 because it's just the right thing to do.

18 I think we need to take a stand at

19 some point and demand of one another we may

20 not always hit the mark but we should be

21 trying and we should require that of one

22 another. I think that matters.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 80 1 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: I'm not

2 disagreeing.

3 Mr. Hart.

4 MEMBER HART: In addition to the

5 master plan a portion of that is a

6 transportation management plan. I don't see

7 evidence in this that they're responding to

8 the objectives of the transportation

9 management plan with respect to reduced

10 parking, numbers of employees for which there

11 is parking.

12 I need a master plan that makes

13 sense in order to be able to vote on

14 individual projects. While there are a lot of

15 architectural design issues that I take

16 exception to, and I applaud a lot of the

17 environmental steps towards improving the

18 design, I have a basic problem with approving

19 projects that are not in the master plan

20 that's already approved because that is the

21 building framework that all these pieces fall

22 into.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 81 1 Ms. Tregoning.

2 MEMBER TREGONING: I will go on

3 record signifying our disappointment. Should

4 someone move to disapprove the plan? Even if

5 that motion should not carry that would become

6 part of the official record or not? A failed

7 motion?

8 MS. YOUNG: Yes, a failed motion

9 is part of the official record.

10 MEMBER TREGONING: I'm afraid if

11 someone were to move that that it might

12 actually be approved meaning that the motion

13 to disapprove might carry.

14 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: One could always

15 reconsider the motion.

16 MEMBER TREGONING: Is anyone

17 willing to move either one?

18 MEMBER WRIGHT: I'm willing to

19 make a motion to that effect, yes. I am.

20 MEMBER HART: And I will second

21 it.

22 MEMBER TREGONING: To disapprove?

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 82 1 MEMBER WRIGHT: To disapprove.

2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: A motion is

3 always in order that the Chair entertains.

4 Mr. Wells?

5 MEMBER WELLS: In understanding

6 the reluctance to vote against this, is there

7 a concern of testing the jurisdictional

8 relationship to what our action is or what is

9 the ramifications? I mean, is there concern

10 that there will be precedent by forcing an

11 agency to ignore us? What is the concern?

12 MR. ACOSTA: I could answer that.

13 It does trigger a process. In the last round

14 of the PX the Commission actually voted to

15 disapprove that project and forced at that

16 time the Applicant to respond in detail why

17 they were going to do certain things.

18 In the final approval step the

19 Commission again disapproved it. At that time

20 they documented why they weren't going to

21 comply and basically said, "We are going ahead

22 and build it." But it does trigger a process.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 83 1 I do think it got their attention in some

2 aspects of this project but fundamentally it

3 didn't address the Commission's core concerns

4 that they have expressed at that time.

5 MEMBER WELLS: So if this motion

6 passes, it will trigger another -- the same

7 process again?

8 MR. ACOSTA: Yes.

9 MEMBER WELLS: So the purpose of

10 the motion is to send a message by hopefully

11 it not passing because we don't want to put

12 them through the process again?

13 MR. ACOSTA: There are two options

14 here. One is not taking action at all and

15 basically the Commission has seded its ability

16 to make any comments regarding this project.

17 Second is if you could take

18 affirmative action or negative action you are,

19 in fact, sending comments back to the

20 Applicant expressing your concerns about this

21 project. Voice those concerns and they will

22 be placed on record.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 84 1 I think in response to Ms.

2 Wright's concerns, that would at least

3 document your concerns regardless of whether

4 you like it or not and at least relay that to

5 the Applicant in terms of what those concerns

6 are. I think that's the difference.

7 One is you're not saying anything

8 and the Applicant is free to proceed. The

9 second option which is to vote on something

10 will at least allow you to put on record

11 whatever comment you may have. I do think in

12 some respects the comments make some

13 difference.

14 I do think in this case they are

15 basically small-level interventions just

16 because the Army, in fact, at this point in

17 time is not able to make any significant

18 modifications to the site plan in terms of

19 where the buildings are located. Everything

20 that you see right now are essentially small-

21 scale interventions.

22 I would remind the Commission that

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 85 1 at the last meeting it actually had proposed

2 a plan for the other portion of this town

3 center which I do think is significantly

4 better than what they had proposed. It is

5 more of the small-scale retail and residential

6 areas of which this would tie into.

7 I do think at least the Commission

8 at that point got the message across that

9 something had to be done over all with respect

10 to this project. I do think hopefully there

11 are vast improvements to that portion of this

12 area.

13 Unfortunately, with respect to the

14 PX and commissary these are, indeed, just

15 small interventions. Regardless of that, I

16 think you do have choices here.

17 I do share those concerns also but

18 I think with respect to the staff's work we

19 are just trying to make sure that this project

20 regardless of how much intervention is

21 conducted in this area is as good as it can

22 be. I do agree that a lot of this is small

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 86 1 scale but I do think they will make some

2 difference in terms of the quality of the

3 project. They could do more but I think

4 that's the point.

5 The other piece of it is there

6 were a lot of questions about parking and

7 traffic and the number of spaces that they

8 need. I think Mr. May made a good point. The

9 question is whether they can consolidate it

10 into one facility or should it be two.

11 This actually would defer a

12 decision on the remainder of the site plan so

13 at least they could come back and show you

14 kind of a revised version of that and whether

15 they could accommodate the issues that you

16 raised or not, at least with respect to the

17 parking and other portions of it that aren't

18 related to the building.

19 That is the other thing that this

20 recommendation would do, to at least bring

21 that back to the table and at least work those

22 things through so you won't have -- at least

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 87 1 you won't have a major traffic problem on the

2 site.

3 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Remember, this

4 is preliminary approval for the building plan

5 so they will have to come back to us for the

6 final. It's a deferred preliminary approval

7 of the site plans so they still have to come

8 back before us.

9 With that, the Chair would

10 entertain a motion. Any motion. What was the

11 -- so it was articulated? Okay. And there

12 was a second? The motion on the floor is to

13 disapprove the EDR as written.

14 MEMBER HART: To disapprove the

15 plan as submitted. Correct? To disapprove.

16 Indeed. Hearing no further discussion --

17 MEMBER WHITE: Can I just ask one

18 thing so I understand? So does the staff have

19 any changes to your proposed actions based on

20 the discussion of the Commission today? Your

21 proposed action is to approve the building

22 with comments and defer approval on the site.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 88 1 Does that still stand as the staff reaction --

2 or staff action rather?

3 MR. ACOSTA: I think that could

4 work. I think the key is, again, at least at

5 this point, the traffic and parking issues.

6 At least we would like them to come back and

7 bring that back to the Commission, at least in

8 terms of understanding kind of really what is

9 going on with respect to transportation in the

10 area and they think those recommendation do

11 that.

12 I think you are making a statement

13 with respect to the disapproval in terms of

14 the building itself. The deferral will at

15 least leave the site development issues in

16 play until we get further information. We can

17 still work through that.

18 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Well, to make

19 sure I understand, the motion is to amend the

20 EDR to say disapprove instead of approve and

21 then everything else is the same.

22 MEMBER WHITE: Thank you.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 89 1 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: So it's been

2 moved and seconded. All in favor of amending

3 the EDR as noted say aye.

4 MEMBERS: Aye.

5 MEMBER WRIGHT: You mean

6 disapproval.

7 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Yes.

8 MEMBER WRIGHT: Aye.

9 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Opposed no.

10 Just to make sure, all in favor of --

11 MEMBER WRIGHT: Of disapproving.

12 CHAIRMAN BRYANT:-- disapproving.

13 One, two, three, four, five. Those voting the

14 other way. One, two, three, four. So it

15 passes five to four. I'm going to vote to

16 approve. I vote against the motion.

17 MEMBER: Then I think we need to

18 recount.

19 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: It's five to

20 five.

21 MEMBER WELLS: Did the Chair vote?

22 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: I did. Five to

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 90 1 five. It's tied.

2 MEMBER: That was the motion to

3 disapprove. Does anyone want to make a motion

4 to approve?

5 MS. YOUNG: Excuse me.

6 DR. GLATZ: I make a motion to

7 approve it.

8 MS. YOUNG: Dr. Glatz, you cannot

9 vote.

10 DR. GLATZ: Okay. I'm sorry.

11 MS. YOUNG: The first motion was

12 fine.

13 She cannot vote.

14 DR. GLATZ: I was assigned to be a

15 representative today.

16 MS. YOUNG: We have to have a

17 letter from the Secretary of Defense saying

18 that you are sitting for him.

19 DR. GLATZ: I thought that was

20 done. Sorry. It's probably some place in the

21 mail. I'm sorry.

22 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: So it's five to

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 91 1 four then. The motion to disapprove passed

2 five to four.

3 Agenda Item 6A.

4 MS. SCHUYLER: Could I just make a

5 point? Excuse me. I think it's important to

6 note that unless the assignment for the

7 alternates includes the ability for them to

8 vote, they can't vote. Therefore, you who

9 have multiple levels should make sure if

10 another alternate is appearing, they have the

11 authority to vote.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 92 1 6A THE NATIONAL MALL DESIGN COMPETITION

2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Agenda Item 6A

3 is an information presentation on the National

4 Mall Design Competition focusing on

5 Constitution Gardens and Sylvan Theater.

6 We have Ms. Hirsch. Welcome.

7 MS. HIRSCH: Good afternoon. The

8 is here with the Trust

9 for the National Mall to provide two

10 information presentations on two different

11 sites on the National Mall. The first is the

12 Sylvan Theater on the

13 grounds. The second is for Constitution

14 Gardens.

15 The Trust for the National Mall,

16 as you know, held a design competition last

17 year for these sites in an effort to advance

18 the ideas in the National Mall plan. At this

19 point staff has had early consultation with

20 the Park Service and the Trust.

21 Essentially the projects are just

22 at the very early stages. We anticipate that

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 93 1 the projects would be coming before the

2 Commission in the next year or so.

3 With that, I'm going to turn it

4 over to the Park Service and the Trust to

5 introduce the project and the designers.

6 [INSERT - National Mall Design Competition]

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 94 1 MEMBER MAY: Are you looking at me

2 because I thought that maybe --

3 Steve Lorenzetti, did you want to

4 say any opening remarks to kick things off

5 before you pass it onto the Trust?

6 MR. LORENZETTI: I didn't know you

7 were looking at me either.

8 Thank you for letting us come and

9 present. The Trust is our partner. They are

10 helping us with the implementation of the

11 National Mall plan. They have run a design

12 competition for two of our sites, Constitution

13 Gardens, which has -- I understand that was

14 never quite complete in the original SOM

15 design.

16 As well as a re-imaging of how we

17 should use the Sylvan Theater on the

18 Washington Monument grounds. We are working

19 closely with the Trust to try to have these

20 projects come to -- at least one of them come

21 to fruition before our centennial.

22 With that I would like to turn it

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 95 1 over to Caroline Cunningham with the Trust.

2 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Good afternoon.

3 Thank you so much for your time. My name is

4 Caroline Cunningham. I'm the president of the

5 Trust for the National Mall. As both Peter

6 and Steve mentioned, we held a design

7 competition run by Don Stastny. Many of you

8 know him. He developed the design excellence

9 guidelines for GSA.

10 We ran a national competition last

11 year culminating in May in tree designs; one

12 for Constitution Gardens, one for Washington

13 Monument grounds at Sylvan Theater, and one

14 for Union Square in front of the Capitol.

15 Unfortunately -- I think all of

16 the designs are stunning. Unfortunately,

17 Union Square was taken by Congress in December

18 of 2011 in their omnibus or their continuing

19 resolution, I don't know which, which a format

20 of their budget they passed last year.

21 The Trust for the National Mall

22 wanted to present this information to you. I

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 96 1 have to tell you we have been working as part

2 of the steering committee of the design

3 competition with the District Office of

4 Planning, the National Capital Planning

5 Commission, the Smithsonian, the National

6 Gallery of Art, the Commission on Fine Arts,

7 we wanted to make certain that all voices

8 while we were developing the programs for

9 these elements were involved in the outcome.

10 The jury which, I think, is not

11 only very helpful to us but I think came

12 together and made a unanimous decision on the

13 final outcomes of each of these locations. I

14 think what they delivered to us was really

15 quite stunning.

16 I think all of the designs are

17 respectful of the historic context of the

18 park. They also restore the park in a more

19 meaningful sustainable way. In particular, on

20 Constitution Gardens which never really could

21 sustain the quality of environment given the

22 soil and the water systems. We are very proud

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 97 1 to present these to you.

2 The purpose really of this

3 discussion is to get your input before we

4 start discussing alternatives. We wanted to

5 make sure that you had at least exposure with

6 these plans so that you could provide us some

7 guidance as we take the next step. The next

8 step is working through alternatives and

9 getting a very good handle on costs associated

10 with both of these projects.

11 At that point we would turn it

12 over, what we think, probably in February of

13 next year, beginning of March, over to the

14 Park Service and our board of directors with

15 a very strong understanding of costs so they

16 could make a determination on what project to

17 go forward with. Then we would go through the

18 natural alternatives process and take what you

19 will see as original concepts to final design.

20 We anticipate that process will

21 get us to about 2014 while we at the same time

22 raise the funds for these projects. And then,

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 98 1 as Steve said, complete one of the projects by

2 2016 as a gift to the nation for the 100th

3 anniversary of the National Park Service.

4 I am very honored by the quality

5 of work that was done by the designers that

6 were chosen. I'm very grateful to the people

7 who are here who participated on the design

8 competition and the technical advisory group.

9 I think that they helped us shape this project

10 in a very important and an outcome I think

11 will benefit not only the country but the

12 District as well.

13 I will start with Constitution

14 Gardens.

15 MR. GREENSPAN: Good afternoon.

16 I'm Adam Greenspan, a partner at PWP Landscape

17 Architects and we with Rogers Marvel

18 Architects submitted the competition scheme

19 for Constitution Gardens.

20 What we realized when we started

21 our work here was that Peter Walker, who has

22 been working in D.C. for 50 or 60 years, and

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 99 1 I for 20 years, neither of us knew

2 Constitution Gardens by name or where it was.

3 Where it is is around the Vietnam

4 Memorial site and over where that box is

5 adjacent to the Mall proper. The interesting

6 thing about it is it's a curvilinear design,

7 a place that is distinctly different from the

8 rest of the Mall. It's less monumental, more

9 natural in a sense.

10 When we looked at the history of

11 it, we definitely see it as curvilinear but

12 definitely related to modernism, a more

13 biomorphic modernism like the Roberto Burle

14 Marx paintings and drawings. We were

15 definitely drawn to the sinuous line that made

16 the edge, and makes the edge today, of the

17 pond.

18 The fantastic reflection that you

19 get of the Washington Monument and anything

20 around it. We were committed to maintaining

21 these significant character aspects of the

22 piece itself in any new design, but also we

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 100 1 were looking at a lot of the problems that we

2 have there today. This is that sinuous edge

3 today in a number of different areas and that

4 is really emblematic of a lot of deterioration

5 and a lot of death and dying. Two-thirds of

6 the trees that were planted in 1976 have died.

7 Many of those were replaced once

8 or twice over. The soils there really aren't

9 healthy and are dying and literally slumping

10 into the ground so the form that it had in the

11 beginning is not there any more. The lake

12 itself really was only aesthetic. It wasn't

13 something that was connected to the land and

14 to life.

15 What we believe is that this

16 place, Constitution Gardens, can become a

17 place with a really special kind of life on

18 the Mall, different than every other place on

19 the Mall. Not monumental. A respite away

20 from the larger-scaled areas and, in some

21 ways, a place for smaller groups rather than

22 crowds.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 101 1 What we were looking at was some

2 of the existing trees and the way that the

3 trees in the lower areas, the lower elevations

4 in this gray space here, were the trees that

5 were found to be mostly dead and dying; the

6 red, the orange, and the yellows in this plan

7 versus the green.

8 There were still some green and

9 healthy blue trees as mapped in this survey in

10 the upper areas, the higher elevations. This

11 is because the soil here was slumping. It was

12 waterlogged.

13 The trees weren't able to deal in

14 the conditions that they've been given.

15 There's a lot of construction debris that is

16 likely in the soil there left from

17 architecture that had been on the site before

18 construction and that was just left

19 underneath.

20 The heart of our scheme can be

21 expressed in this section. This is

22 Constitution Avenue over here. This is the

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 102 1 existing lake elevation. We are proposing

2 enhancing the topography all around the lake

3 so that you get this series of rolling hills.

4 Those rolling hills are more like the original

5 grading plan that SOM did that has sunk over

6 time.

7 But we're talking about enhancing

8 that even more so that you have a feeling of

9 enclosure and a feeling of envelopment in this

10 landscape so when you come from the bigger

11 space of the Mall, the traffic of Constitution

12 Avenue, you come through gateways between

13 those hills and enter into a space that will

14 be full of life, integrated life; all people,

15 plants, and animals together.

16 So when we look at this, this is

17 the level of the existing grade today. In the

18 past it was probably up a little bit higher

19 than that. We're proposing putting in a

20 continuous drainage layer of sand so that this

21 entire construction drains well and lives in

22 a health way in the future.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 103 1 One other thing that our scheme

2 does is tries to connect the paths and the

3 experience of Constitution Gardens to the

4 memorials around it; the World War II Memorial

5 as well as the Vietnam Memorial. But also

6 connecting in a more visible and more

7 celebrated way to all of the street coming

8 from the north that go into the park.

9 Even though we do have that

10 undulating edge with the raised topography,

11 there are points where those come down and you

12 are able to walk in. Between a small -- a low

13 wall that runs around, a seat wall that gives

14 the gardens an identity and a place for

15 naming.

16 We've also connected the Vietnam

17 Memorial to an adjusted path system that flows

18 very smoothly and effortlessly from the end of

19 the Vietnam Memorial so that when you come out

20 of that, you can either continue on into the

21 gardens or you continue back to the

22 interpretational area related to Vietnam.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 104 1 What we end up having is a garden

2 that's connected both to D.C. and the rest of

3 the Mall. Inside of that garden, inside of

4 those edges which are surrounded by the

5 topography and a continuous wooded edge that

6 you can see here.

7 We have a lot of nooks and

8 crannies, large spaces and small spaces where

9 there can be events as well as smaller less

10 organized activities for people as they go

11 through.

12 This is an elevation looking south

13 from Constitution Avenue. You see the land

14 form goes up and down, up and down. Each of

15 these points down are those breaks in that low

16 wall as well as that land form. They offer a

17 big welcoming entry into the gardens. But

18 also views.

19 Right now this is an elevation so

20 you can't see it but if you were standing or

21 in your car here, you would get a view across

22 the lake all the way across to the gardens and

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 105 1 the flowering displays on the other side.

2 Another episode that exist today

3 in the garden is the 56 Signers Memorial. We

4 are maintaining that memorial on that island

5 but enhancing it through making a better

6 threshold and nicer bridge and coming across

7 a wetland area and through sort of a scrim of

8 willows onto the more open island.

9 Adding magnolias to that so this

10 really becomes something that is set off in

11 the seasons and you get a different view

12 across the lake.

13 Some of the most interesting ideas

14 we felt in the competition were putting

15 elements within the lake that maintain its

16 reflection and maintain the ways that it

17 contributes today. But also expand either its

18 health and the way that it's integrated with

19 the rest of the garden and ecology or social

20 activity.

21 One of those ideas is the water

22 ring. It's something that exist at the far

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 106 1 eastern end of the lake and is about the size

2 of a hockey rink. This is a space that we

3 think can be drained and turned into an

4 iceskating rink. Something that feels more

5 like you're skating on a frozen pond than

6 skating in an urban setting on a plaza or

7 something like that.

8 In the summer if you drain it only

9 slightly, it reveals a path and a walkway that

10 runs around that slightly lower space in the

11 center so that becomes a venue for model

12 boating like in Central Park or in Paris. And

13 fishing on National Fishing Day is something

14 that already takes place there every year but

15 this will be a new way to experience and get

16 into the lake.

17 So that lake is part of an

18 integrated water system that we have really

19 designed the whole gardens around. We are

20 hoping to collect rain run-off and urban run-

21 off from the buildings across Constitution

22 Avenue, as well as our building, a pavilion

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 107 1 building that Rob will talk about momentarily.

2 We are also looking at containing

3 and collecting all of the surface run-off and

4 the subdrainage into the lake so that becomes

5 then the generator of irrigation water and the

6 place where that water can be filtered and

7 then recycled.

8 The existing work that's being

9 done that connects the reflecting pool to the

10 is something we also looked at

11 continuing and connecting so that the lake can

12 be flushed periodically or topped off with

13 Tidal Basin water as needed.

14 So this represents an integrated

15 topography of the wooded edge at the highest

16 levels with open lawns that are flexible and

17 can be used in different ways by people.

18 Then upland and lowland gardens, a

19 wetland shelf at the bottom where water that

20 moves through this is being filtered as it

21 comes down going into the ground and then

22 transported also in the subterranean sand

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 108 1 layer.

2 Then the pond itself is made much

3 deeper so that it can be maintained in a

4 healthy condition and planted heavily the edge

5 so something more interesting to look at but

6 also something that gets filtered by those

7 plants.

8 So today this is the view that

9 we're having. While this is a legacy and

10 represents a couple of the aspects that we

11 wanted to maintain over time, it also shows

12 some of the problems. We are looking at the

13 things that are liabilities today like the

14 contaminated soil as being something that

15 becomes an integrated part, or an integral

16 part, of our construction.

17 The land forms that we're talking

18 about can be made from the harvested

19 contaminated soil on site so that this can be

20 done in a rather incremental way around the

21 lake or around the site where both trees and

22 soil are harvested and moved.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 109 1 The healthiest trees we're

2 proposing do get salvaged and become part of

3 the woods that runs around the park. Whereas,

4 single trees that are specimen quality could

5 be used as individual trees in open lawn

6 areas.

7 So when you see this diagram here,

8 this color represents the woods, a sort of

9 composed woodland that is made in part of the

10 trees that we would harvest from the site but

11 aren't of specimen quality but are in good

12 health, larger trees, and then the wetland

13 shelf and the lower plantings. So these are

14 some images of the character of the spaces

15 that we'll be developing.

16 This shows really the distribution

17 around the site. We'll have upland and

18 lowland gardens with different pallets, a

19 wetland shelf, and a wood with understory

20 underneath it separating the maintenance needs

21 of the different kinds of landscapes so the

22 Park Service can maintain lawns and lawns

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 110 1 only, maintain trees with groundcover under

2 them in a different way.

3 Even though we'll have these

4 different types of landscapes and types of

5 expression in the garden, one thing that we

6 try to focus on was the simplicity and the

7 boldness of the original design.

8 As we have a pallet in each of

9 these gardens of different plants to make

10 something has interest and shows itself over

11 the seasons, each season should express itself

12 clearly as one or two colors and organizing

13 that by looking at different heights on the

14 plants that bloom at different times of the

15 year.

16 Within that plan we have an

17 opportunity for a lot of different events.

18 One space I didn't talk about is a large

19 outdoor amphitheater as well as the pavilion

20 that we have at the far eastern edge of the

21 site. Those two spaces are the most highly

22 programmed spaces in the garden and the places

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 111 1 that we can bring lots of people for organized

2 events.

3 The building itself will be the

4 hub for all of that activity that I just

5 talked about. Instead of having a number of

6 pavilions throughout this about 20 acres we

7 are looking at it being one place and one

8 building that fits and is able to serve all of

9 the activities that we have.

10 This is an image of the

11 amphitheater and looking east the pavilion.

12 This amphitheater can range from about 100

13 people or a few people up to 1,000 or 2,000.

14 This is at the far western and the

15 Vietnam Memorial is farther to the left here.

16 The topography all around the pond quiets the

17 sound of whatever goes on inside. We've had

18 studies done so different kinds of events or

19 kinds of celebrations can happen in the garden

20 and not impose themselves on the other

21 activities adjacent to the garden.

22 Lastly, this is an image looking

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 112 1 at what we envision for nighttime here. We

2 use the historical lamp but I think using

3 lighting to both highlight the design that we

4 have and also make it a safer and more useable

5 place through much of the day is something

6 that we are really aiming to do both through

7 the day and through the year.

8 MR. ROGERS: Thank you. Rob

9 Rogers, Rogers Marvel Architects. As we were

10 working with Adam and Dean in their office

11 thinking about the building configuration for

12 the site which, as Adam mentioned, is really

13 about supporting the incredible programmatic

14 opportunities of the rebuilt garden, we also

15 looked at the legacy of the SOM and the Dan

16 Kiley plan and began to imagine how those

17 guide us today in terms of not just the

18 reconstruction of the landscape but the

19 position and proposition for a building in

20 that site.

21 One of the obvious things is to

22 say that we really felt just as the hills and

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 113 1 the low wall have begun the redefinition of

2 Constitution Gardens, this building as a

3 pavilion, as a proposition, has to be a

4 building that belongs to the garden.

5 It's not a memorial. It's not a

6 monument. It's not of the scale of the Mall

7 as a whole. It's really particular to the

8 garden so it's kept low and it's within the

9 canopy trees of Constitution Gardens.

10 When we looked at the original

11 site the SOM building was originally intended

12 at the top of what is now a series of step

13 terraces going down to the lake and we felt

14 that at the time may have been the right

15 place, but since then the World War II

16 Memorial has been constructed and the formal

17 axis exist now north and south from that axis

18 and we really felt that cannot be disrupted by

19 a building in the current configuration.

20 So we pushed the idea of the

21 building to the west as indicated by the large

22 red arrow and thought of it as a very simple

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 114 1 pavilion. Now instead of coming up the

2 terrace steps to arrive at a building, we

3 actually pushed the building and steps

4 together and began to imagine it as a pavilion

5 looking out over the lake but the pavilion

6 then is also a threshold moment to enter

7 Constitution Gardens and announce that special

8 place.

9 We started with a very simple

10 rectilinear piece and just widened it to open

11 it up so it will favor the big long landscape

12 panoramic view looking out across the lake and

13 the gardens.

14 It's also -- as Adam mentioned,

15 when you're moving through Constitution

16 Gardens it's a very spirited curvilinear

17 lyrical kind of walk as you move in and out of

18 the lake, especially now augmented by those

19 gardens.

20 We felt that the shape needed to

21 have a perspectival component so that it would

22 dynamically change as you move around it

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 115 1 throughout the garden experience.

2 We also after building this area

3 up to meet all the current criteria to

4 integrate with the work of the Army Corps and

5 establishing the levee heights so this is the

6 transient height correct to get across and

7 then down into the World War II Memorial do we

8 actually slope slightly up lifting the

9 pavilion as it sort of ramps up so that you've

10 really got a porch and a prospect looking out

11 over the new gardens.

12 It also gives us adequate space

13 underneath for what will become an area of

14 concessions, rest rooms, and classic park

15 amenities, ice skating rental, boat rental,

16 kite rental, things like those opportunities.

17 We've also proposed a plaza-type

18 space on the east side of the pavilion so that

19 we've got a place for school groups and

20 interpretation, education, and gathering as

21 people move to and from the memorials, and a

22 place that actually the pavilion can expand.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 116 1 I'm going to walk you through the

2 pavilion now as a sort of threshold and

3 gateway to the gardens as you move down those

4 large generous stairs, great place for

5 impromptu activities and events, down to the

6 lake level with the concessions, restrooms,

7 park facilities just to your left in this

8 image.

9 The building is really split.

10 There's the big grand stair that takes you

11 down to the lake level, the concessions,

12 restroom, bathrooms on the lower level. We've

13 incorporated very substantial service areas

14 which will be accessed by an independent

15 roadway so we can actually get the kind of

16 service we need to really deliver food, pick

17 up trash, manage some of the park's

18 maintenance relationships.

19 On the upper level you've got the

20 very light ramp, only about 3 percent, up to

21 the prospect and the porch that looks out over

22 the lake, and then a proposed restaurant and

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 117 1 cafe with service areas below. We've proposed

2 initially a diagrid structural system that

3 will span across creating a lattice that gives

4 us the opportunity of both transparency and

5 closed areas where we want condition space and

6 where we want open space.

7 The pavilion is really the heart

8 of the programming that will enable

9 Constitution Gardens to become viable 365 days

10 a year. We are interested not just in the

11 tourist who needs a moment to stop and rest

12 but the resident, the worker who is in D.C.

13 all the time, that this is a place that they

14 can also come in and enjoy the Mall in a park-

15 like setting.

16 At the corner of constitution and

17 17th we've proposed a modest relocation of the

18 Lock Keeper's House which will become an

19 interpretive center for the Constitution

20 Gardens and the Mall.

21 You can see the building is

22 visible through the trees but is not a major

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 118 1 presence from that side. We believe this is

2 a place for these kind of moments of respite

3 and recreation and refreshment along the Mall.

4 Looking forward to this being something that

5 becomes part of the life of the city

6 throughout the year. Thank you very much.

7 MS. HIRSCH: We can either take --

8 we were going to do both presentations and

9 then take questions and comments.

10 MEMBER TREGONING: I was just

11 wondering because if you're going to have to

12 toggle back and forth between presentations --

13 so, you're going to take questions?

14 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Yes. I'm sorry.

15 Please.

16 MEMBER TREGONING: So I liked it.

17 I think it's really beautiful. My only

18 question has to do with the topography changes

19 and the Woodland areas. How deep and how

20 visually impenetrable are those areas? My

21 question is what is the visibility mostly for

22 safety reasons from the exterior of

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 119 1 Constitution Gardens through the Woodland

2 features?

3 MR. GREENSPAN: I think that is

4 something that we are concerned about

5 definitely also. The idea there is that they

6 will be a composed Woodland with lower ground

7 cover There may be a number of trunks coming

8 down but the goal of having mature trees

9 limbed up, no limbs branching below eight feet

10 on these trees, and a lower groundcover.

11 The topography goes up a few feet

12 but these are large land forms so it's not a

13 berm that is discrete and singular where

14 somebody could hide behind it. It's more like

15 a hill. What you'll be seeing will be these

16 moments where you see from Constitution Avenue

17 up to the peak of that hill.

18 As you move through that space

19 you'll get an expanded view of the other side

20 as you move around. You won't see on the

21 other side of the hill but you will see

22 oblique views. Like I showed on the long

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 120 1 elevation, we do have this undulating change

2 so it's not an abrupt or sharp, you know, bump

3 where you can spend time on one side or the

4 other.

5 It's something that is a slow

6 grade going down and slowly coming up again

7 as you move through. This will be closer to

8 the scale of the areas around the Washington

9 Monument today actually in some spaces so

10 larger land forms rather than smaller berms.

11 MEMBER TREGONING: But basically

12 if you're on Constitution Avenue you really

13 can't see any activity happening around

14 Constitution Gardens except for those pathways

15 that punctuate. What is the distance between

16 those roughly?

17 MR. GREENSPAN: This is about --

18 you're asking what is the distance here?

19 MEMBER TREGONING: No. I'm asking

20 the distance -- so if the distance of the land

21 form between the separations, like is as big

22 as a city block? Is it half a block? Is it

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 121 1 200 feet?

2 MR. GREENSPAN: Right now today

3 there is a very small opening or small pathway

4 coming across the street. This is about the

5 width of the entire street so it's probably

6 about 50 feet wide to 70 feet wide with a flap

7 opening in between and then it begins to roll

8 up on either side.

9 MEMBER TREGONING: I'm not asking

10 about the width of the opening. I'm asking

11 the width of the area that because of the land

12 form and the trees you cannot see inside

13 Constitution Garden so how big is that area in

14 between the opening?

15 MR. GREENSPAN: Oh, okay. It

16 wouldn't be that you can't see inside and what

17 we can do as we move forward is look at three

18 dimensional topomodels. That is a block that

19 was there. This is roughly a block or two-

20 thirds of a block.

21 As you are moving down you will

22 get views into the space through here.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 122 1 Because this slopes down and in here we're at

2 a low point so you will be getting view

3 through. It won't be completely separate.

4 MEMBER TREGONING: I know, but

5 what you're saying to me though, and I think

6 it is very beautiful but you are going to walk

7 the length of an entire block before you can

8 look into Constitution Gardens again.

9 While you're in the opening you

10 will be able to have a panorama but when you

11 are not standing in front of the opening, or

12 next to the opening, you're walking an entire

13 block when you don't have a sense of what the

14 activity is inside.

15 MR. GREENSPAN: You will be seeing

16 these windows obliquely as you move down.

17 Yes, there will be about a block where you are

18 not getting a view across the way.

19 MEMBER TREGONING: I would just

20 express some concerns both about safety and

21 about what kind of experience that creates for

22 the pedestrian on Constitution Avenue,

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 123 1 somewhat a deadening experience for the

2 pedestrian that there might be wonderful

3 activity happening but you are not really

4 going to be able to be aware of it because all

5 you're seeing is the rise of the land form and

6 then trees and no human activity basically.

7 MR. GREENSPAN: I think that is

8 something we have to definitely take into

9 account and we'll look at. I think we'll want

10 to make it so that you can see in a little bit

11 more frequently than that.

12 MEMBER WHITE: Going back to your

13 building, I'm sure you have it in the plan and

14 I just didn't see it but the ADA accessibility

15 and how folks in wheelchairs would get from

16 one level to the other.

17 MR. ROGERS: It is there. I'll

18 take you there in one moment.

19 MEMBER WHITE: Right.

20 MR. ROGERS: The terrace is really

21 over this area of service below and then a

22 very modest slope up to this porch. There is

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 124 1 an elevator right here that goes both up and

2 down so that if you come at the lower level,

3 you can ascend right there and have that porch

4 experience. Or if you come in here, you can

5 move up here and take that down as well.

6 MEMBER WHITE: Thank you.

7 MR. ROGERS: There is also -- I

8 would have to go back to the plans but there

9 are pathways that make -- bad analogy --

10 elephant ears, if you will, on either side of

11 the building that come down at that very

12 modest non-railing slope so they connect

13 directly that sort of concentration,

14 refreshment, concession area to the plaza on

15 the top.

16 MEMBER WHITE: So there is still

17 an outdoor alternative?

18 MR. ROGERS: That's correct.

19 MEMBER WHITE: That's great.

20 Thank you.

21 MR. ROGERS: On both the north and

22 south side.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 125 1 MEMBER HART: I think that what

2 we've been shown is very exciting and I look

3 forward to more refinement of the pavilion.

4 I think that almost anything you could do the

5 gardens would be an improvement.

6 I'm excited about the kinds of

7 landscaping that were described, the use of

8 marsh and flowers in an area that is right now

9 not real exciting. I'm not so troubled by the

10 insertion of berms between the points of entry

11 into the park.

12 I like the fact there will be this

13 topographic difference introduced into the

14 Mall where it is basically a very flat

15 landscape as it is now. I think your building

16 on the SOM plan in a way that will be very

17 nice. Thank you.

18 MEMBER WRIGHT: Quick question.

19 Can you take us to, I guess, it's the west

20 elevation of the building? The reason I ask

21 I think it's beautiful. I shouldn't say this

22 but I will. It reminds me of the ICA in

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 126 1 Boston and one of the problems with the ICA is

2 the back of it.

3 It turns its back on the city and

4 it's beautiful on the harbor. I guess I was

5 wrong, the eastern. I'm directionally

6 challenged. The eastern facade, the one

7 facing the Washington Monument. That one,

8 what would be the back of this building.

9 MR. ROGERS: I don't think the

10 building has a back.

11 MEMBER WRIGHT: Okay. Then I need

12 to look at it more carefully. I mean, it sort

13 of feels like a back, doesn't it?

14 MR. ROGERS: The building is

15 really a threshold.

16 MEMBER WRIGHT: It's an open air.

17 MR. ROGERS: Right now it's very

18 much --

19 MEMBER WRIGHT: Theater sort of

20 thing.

21 MR. ROGERS: It's hardly even

22 called a building because it's still a bit of

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 127 1 an idea at this stage but it's that place that

2 is both containment and threshold.

3 MEMBER WRIGHT: So there's no wall

4 here at all?

5 MR. ROGERS: There's an enclosure,

6 glass enclosure, of the restaurant and cafe.

7 MEMBER WRIGHT: Okay.

8 MR. ROGERS: And then it actually

9 comes down like lattice work and trellis work.

10 MEMBER WRIGHT: Right.

11 MR. ROGERS: We imagine that this

12 is very transparent and porous and this is

13 obviously conditioned and enclosed space.

14 MEMBER WRIGHT: So it's not

15 turning its back on anything. That's great.

16 MR. ROGERS: You should be able to

17 sit here and have a beautiful view of the

18 Washington Monument with a Cabernet or

19 Chardonnay.

20 MEMBER WRIGHT: And we'll know the

21 difference standing there. Where is the --

22 where are your mechanical systems, north side

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 128 1 or where are you going to hide all these

2 things?

3 MR. ROGERS: We do. Look at this

4 plan.

5 MEMBER WRIGHT: Okay. That's what

6 I thought.

7 MR. ROGERS: We've got the

8 stairway, the service elements, service

9 elevators, small accessible bathrooms specific

10 to the restaurant. The large bathrooms are

11 downstairs through the public entryway and

12 elevator. This is also the service core that

13 goes down to the lower level which has the

14 public bathrooms here.

15 This is all the kitchen service,

16 Park Service area in the back. We are looking

17 that we would have potential vehicular access

18 actually pass through here for the Zamboni.

19 MEMBER WRIGHT: Oh, the Zamboni.

20 Of course. Okay. Thank you. I think it's

21 wonderful. I was telling John that when I was

22 in college at GW we used to go down there all

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 129 1 the time but nobody knew it was called

2 Constitution Gardens. Believe it or not, this

3 was the '80s and even then it was long in the

4 tooth.

5 I hope you're thinking really hard

6 about the surfaces because I remember even

7 then when it must have been only seven or

8 eight years old sprawling and it was falling

9 apart from the beginning. I can't remember

10 what the surfaces are but I'm assuming you're

11 going to do something different.

12 MR. GREENSPAN: Right. I mean, it

13 was a lot of asphalt and a lot of chip seal

14 and then holes in those for trees and things

15 like that. All of this the materials, the

16 methods, and the integrated design that we're

17 looking at are both about making a system that

18 works today but something that will be

19 maintainable and long lasting.

20 MR. ROGERS: And to that vein we

21 are just beginning to test some material

22 ideas. One of the things we've really talked

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 130 1 about a lot is, in fact, if not the direct

2 reuse of the stone that is in the terraces

3 now, a very similar kind of stone that makes

4 this base level so that we keep the recall of

5 that threshold series of terraces that are

6 there from the SOM plan.

7 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Terrific. Other

8 questions or comments? Hearing none, thank

9 you very much.

10 That concludes -- sorry. Sylvan.

11 MS. WEISS: Thank you very much.

12 I'm Marion Weiss from Weiss/Manfredi. This is

13 Hallie Boyce from OLIN. We're very thrilled

14 to be selected to design the Washington

15 Monument grounds at the Sylvan Theater and an

16 honor to present today.

17 What is very interesting is that

18 as we were learning about the history of the

19 Sylvan Theater we thought that it was

20 interesting to think that the Mall is our

21 nation's central stage just to begin with.

22 When Alice Pike Barney in 1916

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 131 1 conceived of and in 1917 realized the Sylvan

2 Theater as the first venue for cultural

3 performing events on the Mall, that was an

4 extraordinary change and a real gift.

5 The site as it stands, though,

6 today is something that we might not know is

7 really almost at the heart of the criss-cross

8 of the two axes of the Mall and then the White

9 House and the Jefferson. That proficious

10 location has taken a beating just as many

11 others have.

12 The possibility of looking at this

13 site with such care and focus is one that

14 really allows us to see that where the

15 question mark is it's a strange phenomena

16 where the audience is on the mound and the

17 performers are across the pathway on the other

18 side.

19 Similarly, they are looking

20 towards the buses now as well as the theater

21 so the audience turns its back to the monument

22 which we think is really something that seems

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 132 1 quite strange.

2 Those who are now arriving by

3 buses on Independence Avenue have a flurry of

4 pathways that are still unclear about the

5 invitation to arrive at the Mall or the

6 theater.

7 So for us there were fundamental

8 things that caught our mind. One was that we

9 wanted to return the theater now to this site

10 so that the amphitheater and the audience

11 would face the monument.

12 People when they are looking at

13 performances could also see the monument. We

14 might also recognize its connection to the

15 monument grounds to the south with the Tidal

16 Basin and see that there is not an edge but a

17 center.

18 So the first idea was to include

19 the Washington Monument in all the scales of

20 performance. By lifting the landscape what we

21 were able to do is to create a theater for

22 about 1,000 and then offer another benefit

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 133 1 which was to take this new topography and

2 capture some of the Park Services' offices and

3 Park Ranger station. But, more importantly,

4 conceal the buses because that's the

5 fundamental view that people have from the

6 monument.

7 The other thing, though, that

8 caught our mind was that the Sylvan Theater

9 had a name but no identity of Sylvan within

10 the site. Shakespeare's idea of the forest

11 really captured our imagination to offer both

12 shade and shelter and identity, and then

13 ultimately also think of the connection

14 simultaneously.

15 Our vision was really to think of

16 this as something that is an enhancement of

17 the landscape and land form and they are there

18 with shade, shelter and performance and

19 potentially future connections to the sun.

20 The setting there, with some

21 apologies to the lightness of the plan, shows

22 that there is a Sylvan pavilion that is the

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 134 1 hinge between 15th and Independence, two

2 plazas north and south, and an unfolding path

3 landscape that allows us to now look, for

4 instance, to our left which is the Sylvan

5 Theater.

6 We are looking across at all the

7 buses but if we have a performance, we can

8 imagine that the topography might actually

9 change the perspective to one of a hillside

10 but studiously pull the topography down and

11 pull the trees apart to open up and keep the

12 views clear towards the and

13 offer gateways now with the Sylvan pavilion to

14 the left and the amphitheater, again, with

15 those views exposed.

16 The question is this is not just a

17 place for performance but is a place of

18 respite, a place to be day to day, a place

19 that should be accessible at all times, to

20 wheelchairs as well, and flexible so that if

21 one is imaging a place of performance for

22 about 10,000 leveraging all the sides of the

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 135 1 mound and the new amphitheater, that we can

2 also understand that this is reframing an

3 historic gateway.

4 Looking now as if we are coming

5 from the Metro, we see Monument Lodge which is

6 a real gift. To our left you can also see

7 there is no sense of front doors or gateways.

8 This is about offering several

9 gateways including this one here that says

10 that we're the Sylvan pavilion. It opens up

11 and keeps itself down as part of the landscape

12 and opens up views to the monument.

13 Similarly now at Independence

14 Avenue where the buses are all lined up that

15 there really should be a sense of arrival at

16 the Mall instead of this confusion. To the

17 left you can see where the Park Service

18 offices are. A high number of restrooms and

19 exhibition give you your bearings.

20 On the right the Sylvan Pavilion

21 which is really a complementary land form with

22 a green roof. The other side then is the

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 136 1 other face where the Sylvan Cafe opens out

2 onto the terrace and you can see that in many

3 ways this is as much a landscape as it is a

4 theater.

5 It's one, though, that the

6 intersection between what is architecture and

7 what is landscape is also connected through

8 sections so that small performances inside,

9 and even to the edge, can take on a new life

10 so that even the Sylvan identity that we see

11 dappled light through the trees could also

12 give configuration, shape, and identity what

13 the interior of this pavilion might be light.

14 If we look at these all together,

15 this really is a kind of fully connected and

16 rejuvenated landscape with new identities and

17 landscape layers that Hallie will describe.

18 MS. BOYCE: Like OLIN's design for

19 the composition of the base of the Washington

20 Monument that you see in the plan on the left,

21 we really began our design exercise with this

22 idea of creating land forms; sculpting the

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 137 1 land to make a place.

2 As well as tree planting, in

3 particular, to frame a new venue here, a green

4 respite on the Mall that would allow for the

5 critical visitor amenities that was needed at

6 its heart.

7 The planting reinforced the

8 sculpting of the land of the amphitheater

9 providing a shady respite. We worked to

10 maintain a lot of the existing trees that are

11 somewhat mature on the west side in order to

12 create a new setting for the Survey Lodge that

13 is right here and further embellish those

14 plantings.

15 While we sculpted the grounds, we

16 also kept the sculpting minimal in this area

17 to protect those trees, but to also tuck back

18 under the land form some of the necessary

19 parking that's required as part of the current

20 program which we'll be reviewing further with

21 the Trust and the National Park Service as we

22 begin the design phases.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 138 1 This was looked at in the larger

2 context of preserving the overall structure of

3 the Mall. The light green shows the very

4 ordered planting for the Mall; the elms, the

5 box, the LAs along the street.

6 The light pink, which I think is

7 very light at the moment -- let me see if I

8 can highlight this for you. The cherry trees

9 that we all know are around the Tidal Basin

10 along here. OLIN also proposed cherry trees

11 that would frame the Washington Monument site

12 as well.

13 It's this dark green planting, the

14 more random planting, like those referred to

15 by Adam at Constitution Gardens which really

16 lent this idea of the Sylvan Grove, a wilder

17 place on the Mall if you will.

18 Our proposal works to rework the

19 ground plane to use lawn minimally and to

20 propose conservation areas in the lighter ran,

21 much like that of Hyde Park in London. These

22 are meadow landscapes using native grasses

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 139 1 which infiltrate water better which attract

2 wildlife and create an easier time for the

3 National Park Service with regards to

4 maintenance. It minimizes maintenance

5 considerably.

6 At the same time we wanted to

7 propose tree planting that would not only

8 attract the wildlife but would also have

9 seasonable interest and proposing fall color

10 in particular around the monument and the

11 green amphitheater.

12 These are the variety of species

13 that one would find here. We think this gives

14 the Park Service additional opportunities to

15 educate the public, millions of children that

16 come here as well, about our environment and

17 the need to make homes for these features.

18 This is a view back to the Lincoln

19 Memorial. This place while it accommodates

20 all the structured events that Marion talked

21 about can also be used as a place just to take

22 in the view, to have a lunch, or meet with a

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 140 1 colleague, or simply play.

2 At the same time the design keeps

3 this place, that is so important at the heart

4 of the Mall, very open to allow for a range of

5 programs and a range of activities; the

6 celebrations, the demonstrations, as well as

7 the recreation that occurs here on a daily

8 basis.

9 We know that it needs to be a

10 resilient landscape and we are talking about

11 the surfacing. The project on the east end of

12 the Mall that's moving forward is very

13 exciting with this need to create even the

14 lawn spaces which can endure these flows of

15 people whether large or small.

16 The design allows for circulation

17 to occur even during an event from east to

18 west and maintains that path just to the south

19 of the mount at the Washington Monument.

20 We have considered the access, as

21 Marion stated, where buses will land on 15th

22 as well as Independence Avenue to the south,

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 141 1 and how maintenance will occur on site and

2 we'll be talking further with the National

3 Park Service along those lines.

4 With regards to accessibility, the

5 majority of the amphitheater will be

6 accessible and our gesture of this pedestrian

7 bridge that connects over Independence Avenue,

8 the aspiration there is that would also be

9 completely ADA. We determined that we could

10 keep that 5 percent or less.

11 We talked about preserving,

12 conserving, and extending this landscape to

13 the west creating a new setting for the Survey

14 Lodge. This is what it looks like today.

15 Today there are rangers there who are very

16 helpful to the public so we would like to keep

17 that aspect.

18 But also this idea of creating

19 volunteer programs where the National Park

20 Service rangers become the experts and might

21 take teams of people around the site to help

22 take care of the site or help with some of the

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 142 1 programs there. We think that would really

2 help connect the Mall to the local community

3 in an engaging way.

4 This just shows some of those

5 ideas about the Survey Lodge immediate

6 environment on a smaller scale. Sort of a

7 working landscape, if you will. There was

8 really a need to invent anew here but to pick

9 up on the existing Washington Monument mound

10 and land form at the same time to enrich it

11 with several layers of planting and create an

12 exciting place for people to rest and refresh.

13 We wanted to also make larger

14 connections to the Tidal Basin and beyond. We

15 looked and understood that there is the

16 Memorial loop which is very interesting

17 interest because it connects currently both

18 the Constitution Garden site as well as our

19 site and the Tidal Basin so all within a five-

20 minute walk.

21 We also considered the various

22 users of this site, whether it be families,

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 143 1 the large flows of school groups via those

2 buses on Independence Avenue. We know there

3 is quite a running community here in D.C.,

4 particularly around the Tidal Basin.

5 Trying to pick up on the D.C.

6 Bikeshare Program which is so successful and

7 growing. Allow for ease of connections to the

8 World War II and Vietnam Memorial. Then also

9 think of ease of access for those in their

10 senior years. As well as the advent of the

11 new segway, a new way to get around town.

12 We also thought about in the

13 southern portion the image on the left. In

14 the late 19th century this area was a working

15 landscape. There were plots and greenhouses

16 that allowed for the refurbishment of the Mall

17 and its gardens which I think is AJ Downing's

18 idea. We thought there might be a potential

19 in the future to bring that idea back in some

20 way.

21 More immediately, this idea of

22 making this a landscape of performance. Only

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 144 1 putting lawn where the high-traffic areas are

2 required and then planting the rest with mixed

3 meadow really making it both ease of

4 maintenance but also much more sustainable for

5 long-term use.

6 We did also in the competition

7 look at a phased approach and we'll be talking

8 further with the Trust and the National Park

9 Service about those ideas.

10 MS. WEISS: Finally, as Hallie

11 talked about, a high-performance landscape.

12 We could say that the performance should also

13 have been high.

14 To close, it's really taking that

15 historic idea that could take something as

16 delicate as this performance or as robust as

17 this one and think about what it might mean

18 here to host roughly the Sylvan stage today to

19 host a 1,000 people with this reoriented stage

20 with incredible vistas to take the scale of

21 the landscape so that 100, 1,000, or 10,000

22 could work in this place more intimately for

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 145 1 performances that could be indoors or indoors

2 and outdoors, or expandable venue when

3 something extraordinary is going on.

4 Of course, the most important

5 thing is that when you have a theater, you've

6 got to support it and you need to service it.

7 The idea is small performance or service in

8 this particular root, the monument plaza area,

9 and then larger performances with trucks and

10 the stage elevated just to the size of those

11 box trucks allows that to be serviced as well.

12 Most importantly, when you have a

13 stage in the center it needs to be flexible

14 and not too heavy of a structure so that it

15 has a matrix or literally a scaffold beginning

16 that could sustain, say, a trellis restaurant

17 during the day but you could see all these

18 diagrams on the right all the way up to being

19 removed and having all the rigging come in by

20 another performance artist so you can see on

21 the playbill on the right.

22 On the left you see small, medium

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 146 1 film and large, all being able to be

2 accommodated in this one setting that we hope

3 will, in fact, insight the new Sylvan magic

4 which we would imagine would induce new

5 horizons. Thank you.

6 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: That's very

7 exciting.

8 Questions or comments for Sylvan.

9 Mr. Hart.

10 MEMBER HART: I think you've shown

11 us a very exciting idea and I look forward to

12 further refinement of them. There is a

13 component that I do have some reservations

14 about and that is this pedestrian bridge.

15 I hesitate to get too warm on

16 something that divorces pedestrians from the

17 landscape itself by taking them over the road

18 for a long distance separating them from the

19 ground plane.

20 There are places where that makes

21 sense but I'm not sure this is it. As you go

22 farther, please think about what that is in

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 147 1 the landscape and in the streetscape that

2 we're putting together. Thank you.

3 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Ms. White.

4 MEMBER WHITE: I just wanted to

5 make a couple of comments and thank, first,

6 the Park Service and the Trust for the vision

7 and the leadership that you brought to this in

8 the design competition alone.

9 I was really struck by the power

10 of your partnership and really elevating the

11 thinking and what could be done. I really

12 complement the design teams for the grace and

13 the thoughtfulness that you've taken in your

14 approach.

15 It's very clear you have thought a

16 lot about sustainability and stewardship in

17 the way you've approached these spaces. I

18 just think it's breathtaking and I know there

19 are a lot of details that you'll be working

20 out and so forth but I really appreciate you

21 coming here this early on because it's really

22 an inspiring vision. I really wanted to

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 148 1 commend you all for that so thank you.

2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Any other

3 questions or comments?

4 Ms. Tregoning.

5 MEMBER TREGONING: I will just say

6 -- this is mostly to Caroline -- that this is

7 wonderful. We were delighted to be able to

8 participate in the selection. I think both

9 designs are very inspiring.

10 I think we look forward to seeing

11 them again. We have some ideas about how they

12 might change and some concerns but to say that

13 there are enormous improvements over the

14 current conditions is a vast understatement.

15 They really are both very

16 imaginative and beautiful spaces that would be

17 -- they would be jewels in the crown of any

18 city and we will be very lucky to realize them

19 here in Washington so thank you.

20 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Thank you very

21 much. Very exciting. We look forward to

22 having you back.

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 149 1 MEMBER WRIGHT: One question.

2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Yes.

3 MEMBER WRIGHT: I was going to

4 defer to Harriet because I was sure she was

5 going to ask about where the buses go. Where

6 do the buses go?

7 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Steve.

8 MR. LORENZETTI: I don't think we

9 got there yet to be honest. The Park Service

10 has not really weighed in on this plan yet.

11 We are working on a few details so we can

12 weigh in. We want to make sure we respect any

13 processes but buses are certainly something

14 we'll be looking at when we get an opportunity

15 to.

16 MEMBER WRIGHT: Where did you

17 imagine the buses?

18 MS. WEISS: The buses are still

19 there on Independence but they are now

20 screened by the new topography of the

21 amphitheater so in some ways we actually like

22 the reciprocity of the elevation still

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 150 1 allowing the buses to be there. Actually now

2 with the Monument plaza they have a gateway

3 now as opposed to this strange condition that

4 they have right now to arrive.

5 MS. CUNNINGHAM: I would also say

6 that Bob Vogle as assured me that he's finding

7 a location to stick the buses. I don't know

8 that they are part necessarily of the design.

9 Clearly I love that they disappear in the

10 Washington Monument grounds topography change,

11 but I honestly think that figuring out where

12 the buses go is a city/Park Service question.

13 MEMBER WRIGHT: Agreed. I mean,

14 but your designing with the idea that the

15 buses don't go away. Right?

16 MS. WEISS: I idea is there is

17 reciprocity between the high tourism at that

18 location and this landscape might work

19 together.

20 MEMBER WRIGHT: Okay. Thank you.

21 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Thank you very

22 much. It's very exciting plans. We look

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 151 1 forward to having you back.

2 Noting that there is nothing else

3 to come before us, we are adjourned.

4 (Whereupon, at 3:24 p.m. the

5 meeting was adjourned.)

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C E R T I F I C A T E

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript

In the matter of: Commission Meeting

Before: NCPC

Date: 10-04-12

Place: Washington, DC was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.

------Court Reporter

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