Page 1 NATIONAL CAPITAL PLANNING COMMISSION + + + + + COMMISSION MEETING
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OPEN SESSION
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THURSDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2012
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The meeting convened in Room 5115, Suite 500, 401 9th Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20004, at 1:00 p.m., Preston Bryant, Jr., Chairman, presiding.
NATIONAL CAPITAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: PRESTON BRYANT, JR., Chairman Presidential Appointee
HOWARD A. DENIS, U.S. House of Representatives GEORGINE GLATZ, Department of Defense JOHN M. HART, Presidential Appointee PETER MAY, Department of the Interior ROBERT E. MILLER, Mayoral Appointee HARRIET TREGONING, Office of the Mayor of the District of Columbia
TOMMY WELLS, Council of the District of Columbia BETH WHITE, Presidential Appointee MINA WRIGHT, General Services Administration NCPC STAFF PRESENT:
MARCEL C. ACOSTA, Executive Director ANNE SCHUYLER, General Counsel DEBORAH B. YOUNG, Secretary to the Commission
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 2 T-A-B-L-E O-F C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S 1 Report of the Chairman, Preston Bryant...... 4
2 Report of the Executive Director, Marcel Acosta ...... 6
3 Legislative Update, Anne Schuyler . . . 10
4 CONSENT CALENDAR - No Presentations
4A 7411 The Yards, Southeast Federal Center, Tingey Street and 4th Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. - Parcel N.. . . 10 4B 7413 Transfer of jurisdiction of a triangular portion of land bordered by Constitution Avenue, N.W., Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., and the National Gallery of Art, West Building ...... 10
5 ACTION ITEMS - With Presentations
5A CPO1 Comprehensive Plan for the National Capital: Federal Elements - Amendments to the Federal Environment Element,
Presentation, David Zaidain...... 13
5B Fort Belvoir, North Post, Fairfax County, Virginia - New Commissary . . . 46 6 INFORMATION PRESENTATION
6A The National Mall Design Competition: Constitution Gardens and Sylvan Theater ...... 92 ADJOURNMENT
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 3 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S
2 1:02 p.m.
3 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Good afternoon
4 and welcome to the National Capital Planning
5 Commission's October 4, 2012 meeting. If you
6 would, please, stand and join me in the Pledge
7 of Allegiance.
8 (Pledge of Allegiance.)
9 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Thank you.
10 I'll note for all that today's
11 meeting is being live streamed on the NCP
12 website. We do have a quorum so without
13 objection we'll proceed with the agenda as has
14 been advertised.
15 [INSERT - Agenda]
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 4 1 1 REPORT OF THE CHAIRMAN
2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Agenda Item No.
3 1 is the Report of the Chairman. I have two
4 items. One is we received a letter from
5 Representative Darrell Issa, Chairman of the
6 House Committee on Oversight and Government
7 Reform designating John Cuaderes as the first
8 alternate, Howie Denis as the second
9 alternate, and Mary Pritschau as the third
10 alternate to the Commission. Howie has
11 previously served as the third and now he's
12 number two.
13 Second item of the Chairman's
14 Report is that yesterday we had our third
15 annual meeting at the Pentagon with DoD,
16 specifically with the Army, Navy, and Air
17 Force commands in the Washington District.
18 Commissioner Provencha, who is the
19 DoD rep, has been instrumental in setting up
20 these meetings as we continue to work for
21 further collaboration between NCPC staff and
22 DoD staff on project planning.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 5 1 Of the 158 projects we have
2 reviewed in FY12 41 of them were DoD so that's
3 roughly a quarter with GSA being No. 2 with 29
4 of the 158 projects. The military-related
5 projects make up a healthy chunk of our work.
6 We stress kind of three things.
7 One is getting NCPC staff involved as early as
8 possible in project planning, certainly well
9 before preparing project budgets and doing
10 appropriations requests. The earlier we are
11 involved, those budgets and appropriations
12 requests the more accurate they can be.
13 Second, we stressed having up-to-
14 date master plans. The Navy Yard joint base,
15 Bolling-Anacostia, and Fort Belvoir being
16 three of the number we are still seeking.
17 Progress is being made on those.
18 Third, we cited the need to try to
19 have what's been described as staying power to
20 those master plans so as installation commands
21 change, the master plans don't continue to be
22 changed as well. When a master plan is
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 6 1 prepared, we like to work with them to see how
2 it can survive installation command changes.
3 The meeting was very good.
4 Everyone understood and certainly agreed with
5 the importance of master plans and how they
6 can help speed up individual projects so it
7 was a very good meeting.
8 Mr. Acosta and Shane Dettman, a
9 senior planner, and I were the three from here
10 who attended. Again, I want to acknowledge
11 Mr. Provencha's role in these meetings. He's
12 been very helpful.
13 That ends the Chairman's Report.
14 Any questions?
15 2 REPORT OF THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
16 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: The third item
17 on the agenda is Legislative Update from Ms.
18 Schuyler.
19 I'm sorry. Excuse me. Second
20 item on the agenda is the Executive Director's
21 Report, Mr. Acosta.
22 MR. ACOSTA: Thank you, Mr.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 7 1 Chairman, and good afternoon. I just have a
2 few items that I would like to report on.
3 First of all, at your desk is a postcard
4 announcing our Federal Urban Design Element
5 Open House. This open house will be held on
6 Wednesday, November 14th at the District
7 Architecture Center on 7th Street. We
8 encourage all of you to attend if you are able
9 to.
10 I would also like to make a few
11 new introductions to our agency. I would like
12 to introduce Dereth Bush.
13 Dereth, would you please stand?
14 Dereth joined the Urban Design and
15 Plan Review Division as a community planner.
16 Ms. Bush received dual masters from City
17 Regional Planning and Architecture from
18 Georgia Institute of Technology. Prior to
19 joining NCPC Ms. Bush served as principal
20 planning technician for the Maryland National
21 Capital Park and Planning Commission.
22 I would also like to introduce
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 8 1 Maureen Tighe. Maureen joined the Physical
2 Planning Division as a community planner. Ms.
3 Tighe received dual masters, again, from City
4 Regional Planning and Architecture from
5 Georgia Tech so that makes two. Ms. Tighe was
6 a designer at Arch-Plan, Inc. before joining
7 NCPC.
8 We would like to welcome them to
9 the agency.
10 Also, I would like to announce
11 that after 41 plus years of federal service
12 including more than eight years at NCPC,
13 Phyllis Vessels, our Human Resources Officer,
14 retired yesterday. Phyllis consistently
15 provided the highest level of service to the
16 staff in managing the agency in the human
17 resources function.
18 She was a great HR officer and we
19 will certainly miss her. Very pleasant
20 demeanor and a very professional attitude at
21 this agency. We wish her the best in her
22 retirement.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 9 1 That concludes my report.
2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Thank you very
3 much. I would like to second that we will
4 miss her. She has been a veteran here and
5 she's been very good. A well-deserved
6 retirement.
7 [INSERT - Report of the Executive Director]
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 10 1 3 LEGISLATIVE UPDATE
2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Third item on
3 the agenda is the Legislative Update, Ms.
4 Schuyler.
5 MS. SCHUYLER: I have one item to
6 report. In late September in both the House
7 and the Senate a new bill pertaining to the
8 National Women's History Museum was introduced
9 to both the House and the Senate.
10 The versions in both houses are
11 identical. The idea behind the bill is to
12 create a commission to study the establishment
13 of a museum and report back to Congress and
14 the President.
15 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Thank you very
16 much.
17 Any questions for Ms. Schuyler?
18 4 CONSENT CALENDAR
19 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: The fourth item
20 on the agenda is the Consent Calendar and we
21 have two items.
22 First is item 4A, The Yards,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 11 1 Southeast Federal Center, Parcel N.
2 Item 4B is the transfer of
3 jurisdiction of a triangular portion of land
4 bordered by Constitution Avenue, N.W.,
5 Pennsylvania, N.W., and the National Gallery
6 of Art, West Building.
7 Any questions on either of those
8 two items?
9 Hearing none, is there a motion on
10 the Consent Calendar?
11 MEMBER MAY: Moved.
12 MEMBER WRIGHT: Second.
13 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: It's been moved
14 and seconded. All in favor of the Consent
15 Calendar being passed say aye.
16 MEMBERS: Aye.
17 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Opposed no? The
18 Calendar is adopted.
19 [INSERT - Parcel N Development]
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 12
1 [INSERT - Transfer of Jurisdiction]
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 13 1 5 ACTION ITEMS - WITH PRESENTATIONS
2 5A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR NATIONAL CAPITAL
3 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: The fifth item
4 on the agendas, 5A, is Amendments to the
5 Federal Environment Element of the
6 Comprehensive Plan.
7 We have Mr. Zaidain. Welcome.
8 MR. ZAIDAIN: Thank you, Mr.
9 Chairman. Good afternoon.
10 The first agenda item in the open
11 session is the final policy adoption for the
12 update to the Federal Environment Element. As
13 many of you are aware, we are working through
14 the existing Comprehensive Plan to update the
15 elements and to evaluate the policies that
16 they contain.
17 Just to kind of give you a quick
18 status of where we are, these are all starting
19 to come to a head. The transportation element
20 was -- the final policy adoption was complete
21 in June through this Commission's action. The
22 environment element is before you today.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 14 1 Next month at the November
2 Commission meeting we will be bringing the
3 draft urban design element to you. This is a
4 brand new element for the Comprehensive Plan
5 and we've been working with the Urban Design
6 Task Force to create that element. That will
7 be coming to you for a draft release. There
8 will also be a public event held on November
9 14th for that element as our Executive
10 Director mentioned.
11 Concurrent with the release of
12 that element we will also be requesting the
13 release of the update to the historic
14 preservation element. Because there is such
15 a significant overlap between the preservation
16 and parts of the urban design element, we
17 thought it would be good to release those
18 drafts concurrently. They are still separate
19 elements but go through the public process at
20 the same time.
21 Then beyond that we are working on
22 the visitors and foreign mission elements and
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 15 1 we are targeting December for their draft
2 presentation. We are working to finalize the
3 work place element and we are also targeting
4 December for the finale of that piece.
5 Then the final element to be
6 updated will be the open space and parks
7 element and we'll begin updating that in 2013.
8 Lots forthcoming related to the Comprehensive
9 Plan.
10 Today's agenda item is the federal
11 environment element. This element was last
12 updated in 2004 and it provides policy
13 recommendations on best management practices
14 and goals for environmental stewardship for
15 federal agencies throughout the National
16 Capital Region.
17 Like all the rest of the elements
18 in the Comprehensive Plan it has specific
19 policy recommendations as well as
20 inspirational statements. Many of the
21 policies also overlap with other elements of
22 the Comprehensive Plan, particularly in this
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 16 1 case the transportation element and some of
2 the recommendations we have for the urban
3 design work.
4 Since 2004 there has been some
5 advancement and some work done throughout the
6 federal government in regards to environmental
7 stewardship. This is what we wanted to
8 account for in our update.
9 In 2007 the Energy Independence
10 and Security Act was signed which provide very
11 strict regulations regarding energy
12 conservation and building design for the
13 federal government.
14 This was followed by Executive
15 Order 13514 which we all know is a the
16 sustainability executive order which built
17 upon the 2007 law to really provide stricter
18 and stronger policy guidance to federal
19 agencies in managing their environmental
20 impacts.
21 Also, the Chesapeake Bay and
22 Anacostia River programs have been initiated.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 17 1 There is a strong Chesapeake Bay program that
2 was embodied in an executive order. The
3 District has been working very hard on
4 cleaning up and revitalizing the Anacostia
5 River. We wanted to reflect that work as
6 well.
7 Also climate change has become a
8 very substantial issue. Work from the
9 Environmental Protection Agency and the
10 Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments
11 has really provided some strong policy
12 direction on the climate change. We wanted to
13 reflect that in this update. As well as
14 advances in scientific research and new best
15 practices for environmental impacts.
16 Stemming from the Sustainability
17 Executive Order, every federal agency has to
18 publish a Strategic Sustainability Performance
19 Plan. As an informational piece we wanted to
20 reflect NCPCs in the environment element.
21 Some of the policy points in our
22 strategic plan include updating and expanding
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 18 1 the federal elements of the Comprehensive Plan
2 which we're still working on. Working closely
3 with the Metropolitan Washington Council of
4 Governments in advancing the Greater
5 Washington 2050. We feel like this is part of
6 our sustainability work.
7 Development a precinct scale eco-
8 district plan for 10th Street and Maryland
9 Avenue, S.W. We are presenting an eco-
10 district project which you are aware of. Also
11 implementing operational standards to help
12 reduce our greenhouse gas emissions and kind
13 of an interesting bragging point, I guess.
14 Currently over 95 percent of NCPC
15 employees walk, bike, or take public
16 transportation to work. We are doing pretty
17 well in that realm and we wanted to reflect
18 this in the environmental element.
19 Getting to the policies
20 themselves, there are 12 existing policy areas
21 ranging from air quality to soils and
22 vegetation to radio frequency or
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 19 1 telecommunication antennas.
2 We went through and evaluated
3 these areas to just update the policies and
4 see if they are consistent with current best
5 practices. We are proposing three new policy
6 areas, one being climate change, two being
7 light pollution, and three being energy
8 conservation.
9 The entire update is included in
10 your EDR and I'm just going to highlight some
11 of the updates and pay particular attention to
12 these three new policy areas.
13 To the existing areas,
14 particularly flood plains, wetlands and
15 watersheds, soil, and wildlife, we built on
16 the current approach in the environment
17 element which is to avoid impacts, protect
18 these resources and mitigate any impacts that
19 may happen.
20 There is an environmental justice
21 section of this element that provides policy
22 guidance to federal agencies. This section
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 20 1 provides policies which require open
2 evaluation of alternatives and really
3 reinforce what is required in the National
4 Environment Policy Act as in regards to public
5 participation.
6 We did strengthen the policies in
7 the vegetation section which we are now
8 calling vegetation and tree canopy. The
9 District has a very strong tree canopy. The
10 District of Columbia tree canopy increased 2.1
11 percent since 2006 with a now coverage of 37.2
12 percent. The District has a goal of 40
13 percent by 2035 so obviously coming very, very
14 close to meeting that goal within that time
15 frame.
16 The updates to the policies
17 include a stronger focus on preserving and
18 expanding the tree canopy regionally, replace
19 trees and compensate for tree canopy loss. We
20 do recommend a one-to-one replacement for most
21 trees in federal projects.
22 Also respecting local standards
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 21 1 and guidelines for tree protection. Many of
2 the local communities around the National
3 Capital Region are really focusing their
4 zoning codes and regulations on preserving
5 trees and we think the federal government
6 should strive to meet some of these
7 regulations.
8 A new section that we've added is
9 climate change and the element does reflect
10 the EPA's definition of climate change which
11 is, and I'll just read part of this, "Climate
12 change refers to any significant change in the
13 measures of climate lasting for an extended
14 period of time." We do want to build upon the
15 EPA's work regarding climate change.
16 Climate change really impacts --
17 covers a lot of ground so these policies
18 overlap with other pieces of the Comp Plan as
19 well as within the environment element itself.
20 The policies focus on long-range planning for
21 flooding, run-off, and soil erosion and
22 temperature extremes.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 22 1 It encourages sustainable building
2 design. It does set a zero-net energy
3 standard by 2030 and this is something that
4 comes out of the 2007 EISA law.
5 It encourages District-level
6 energy planning which is something we've seen
7 in the eco-districts in other projects. It
8 supports continued analysis of the impacts of
9 climate change on the National Capital Region.
10 It sets a foundation for establishing
11 partnerships to study the impacts of climate
12 change.
13 Another new policy area is light
14 pollution. In updating the environment
15 element in studying this issue we looked at
16 scientific research on how light pollution can
17 disrupt migratory patterns. It weakens the
18 cleansing of particular matter in the
19 atmosphere and basically can also waste energy
20 when you are using lighting that is
21 unnecessary.
22 The new policies look to eliminate
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 23 1 upward and horizontal spillage of light,
2 provide appropriate light controls, and
3 respect the affects and impact of light on
4 adjacent areas and surrounding context. This
5 is also something that we've gotten into in
6 the urban design element. So just really set
7 some standards for managing lighting use for
8 federal agencies.
9 The final new area is involving
10 energy conservation. We really wanted to
11 reflect many of the standards set in the 2007
12 Energy Independence and Security Act, for
13 EISA. The new policies look to reduce fossil
14 fuel generated energy consumption by 55
15 percent.
16 Thirty percent of hot water in
17 federal buildings should come from solar
18 energy and, again, reiterates the need to
19 encourage District light level energy planning
20 to pool resources and conserve energy.
21 In terms of process, we have held
22 a public comment period which ran from June
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 24 1 11th after the Commission released the draft
2 element. That comment period ran from June to
3 August and we did receive some comments and
4 those are reflected in your EDR.
5 A public meeting was held on June
6 27th so that we could present the draft
7 update. The policies were tweaked after the
8 comment period was closed. A draft narrative
9 has been added and will continue to be edited
10 as the Comp Plan is compiled.
11 This is kind of the process that
12 we're going through in updating the entire
13 Comp Plan is to keep working on the narrative
14 before it's all finalized at which time we'll
15 bring it back to the Commission for full
16 adoption.
17 So the Commission action requested
18 is that the Commission adopt the updated
19 policies to the federal environment element
20 but hold those policies in abeyance until all
21 of the federal elements of the Comprehensive
22 Plan are adopted and the Comp Plan can be
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 25 1 compiled at which time we'll bring back to you
2 for a final adoption of the entire document.
3 That's the end of my presentation
4 and I believe we do have one person signed up
5 to speak.
6 [INSERT - Federal Environment Element of the
7 Comprehensive Plan]
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 26 1 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: We do indeed.
2 We have one person signed up to speak, Mr.
3 Lindsley Williams.
4 [INSERT - SPEAKER LIST]
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 27 1 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Mr. Williams,
2 welcome. If you're representing yourself you
3 have three minutes.
4 MR. WILLIAMS: Members of the
5 Commission, my name is Lindsley Williams,
6 sometimes known as trouble. I'm here to
7 actually support the adoption that's been
8 recommended holding things in abeyance but to
9 bring to your attention three things that came
10 to my attention as I reviewed the document
11 over the weekend.
12 I had two "oh my" moments and one
13 "bingo" moment. The two "oh my" moments
14 relate to the statement of the goal which I
15 found incredibly uninspiring. I took at a
16 crack at trying to give you some words.
17 I don't want you to take what I've
18 written as "take it or leave it" but just to
19 put it before you that these are things that
20 need attention and the goal, it seems to me,
21 is one of those areas that needs attention.
22 The second area that needs
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 28 1 attention, and I'm thinking particularly of
2 the D.C. contribution to the effort in the
3 Southwest Eco-district, is to get it more
4 fully recognized and that will be coming up to
5 you for adoption in, I believe, January. I
6 think it all fits with the time line that has
7 been identified to you in the slides.
8 The final thing which was my sort
9 of "bingo" moment was the realization that we
10 all struggled to meet the requirements of the
11 stormwater management system. There are
12 requirements that are honest because of EPA
13 and because of the problems they're trying to
14 address.
15 We need to see if there's a way to
16 figure out ways of accessing what I call for
17 the moment, not having a better term,
18 unessential. That's not surplus but
19 unessential federal lands so that they can be
20 multi-purposed into solving environmental
21 problems, particularly those related to
22 stormwater, as well as getting on with their
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 29 1 primary purpose of whatever the installation
2 is in question and, at the same time, not
3 causing security issues.
4 That's what the gist of my letter
5 is all about. I don't want to try to read the
6 letter. You also have a supplemental letter,
7 I believe, from David Tuchmann who was
8 explaining, in perhaps a little more detail
9 than I did, what this is all about.
10 I think what David has
11 recommended, David Zaidain has recommended,
12 the Executive Director has recommended is hold
13 these things, modify them as the plans are
14 developed, and I see all three of these things
15 as being something that are potentially
16 amenable to being included and would ask you
17 to sort of nudge staff in that direction but
18 basically go forward with the adoption that's
19 before you. Thank you very much.
20 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Thank you, Mr.
21 Williams.
22 Anyone have any comments or
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 30 1 questions for Mr. Willams?
2 MEMBER MAY: I'm still getting
3 used to the new microphones. I wanted to
4 understand better from you what you regard as
5 unessential land.
6 MR. WILLIAMS: I'm not proud of
7 that word, Mr. May. What I was trying to do
8 is to make sure that I did not use the word
9 surplus because that sets all kinds of alarm
10 bells that makes it sounds like it's not
11 needed.
12 I'm thinking of a range of things
13 that could occur to both give value and solve
14 problems. There are places that involve a
15 buffer strip. Thirty years ago I was involved
16 with an effort to find a solution to a chiller
17 plant that Metro wanted to put into the middle
18 of a residential community in Woodley Park.
19 We found a solution for that by
20 putting it in the buffer, by suggesting and
21 then getting approvals for putting it in the
22 buffer strip of the National Zoological Park.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 31 1 Mr. May has brought before you
2 some ideas about trying to figure out what we
3 can do to get better grass to grow on the
4 Mall. Right now the Mall, particularly the
5 western part of the Mall, is sitting on muck
6 which was dredged up and not very good at
7 absorbing water.
8 It's the kind of thing which if it
9 were repurposed so that it had a really good
10 kind of preparation for it, it could probably
11 become a receiving zone for water and not
12 cause the run-offs that we're experiencing.
13 That's valuable to people that
14 have to meet this EPA requirement and it's not
15 essential if you can get under it and use it
16 and still have the green surface for the
17 people of American to walk on.
18 I look at installations of the
19 Defense Department which have considerable
20 acreage and I'm presuming that there are
21 locations within that which might be wetlands
22 or could be made to better hold back water
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 32 1 from cascading down the Anacostia or down Rock
2 Creek. There is an outfall in the upper end
3 of Rock Creek Park which is getting scoured a
4 lot. There may be things that can be done.
5 All I'm trying to do is say let's
6 see if there is a way in which federal lands
7 and stewards of those lands can partner with
8 those that have problems that need to be
9 solved and have two problems solved at once
10 instead of just one set of requirements that
11 is imposed which can sometimes prove to be
12 really nettlesome in the development world.
13 That's what I had in mind.
14 MEMBER MAY: Okay. I guess you
15 need to work on what the right word is.
16 MR. WILLIAMS: We do.
17 MEMBER MAY: Because, you know,
18 what you talked about that might occur on park
19 land are certainly uses that we are looking at
20 on a regular basis but we would never want to
21 characterize that land as unessential.
22 MR. WILLIAMS: And I wouldn't want
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 33 1 you to either.
2 MEMBER MAY: Okay. I would be
3 concerned if there was a mandate to do those
4 things where other agencies we're doing it now
5 on a voluntary basis and we see the value in
6 it and we want to do everything we can to help
7 our federal partners when we can. We've had
8 some discussions about taking on extra water,
9 for example, in certain areas.
10 MR. WILLIAMS: I hope the members
11 of the Commission saw that what I was trying
12 to suggest was not a mandate but basically a
13 right to knock on the door and say, "May we."
14 That's what I wanted to see, if we could get
15 it more formally expressed so that as
16 opportunities and constraints come along that
17 there is something in writing that says this
18 is a good thing to try.
19 MEMBER MAY: I think you can be
20 encouraged by the fact that a lot of those
21 conversations are already happening driven by
22 a number of causes.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 34 1 I mean, our biggest cause might be
2 the idea of eliminating the Potomac tunnel
3 that is part of the long-term control plan now
4 known as the Clean River Project which would
5 have tremendous and devastating impacts on
6 portions of Rock Creek and the C&O Canal Park
7 if it's built the way it's conceived right
8 now.
9 MEMBER TREGONING: I think this is
10 a really intriguing idea and I think the
11 concept that you might be trying to convey is
12 that whatever the primary purpose of the
13 federal land might be that it might also be
14 able to serve that primary purpose and serve
15 additional purposes that have an environmental
16 benefit. I think that really is an important
17 concept to sort of put out there.
18 Twenty percent of the land in the
19 city is parkland. Most of that is federal.
20 Twenty percent of the land is roads and alleys
21 and driveways. We are looking at the city at
22 repurposing our streets, our rights-of-way, to
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 35 1 see could they do more to benefit the
2 environment including actually managing and
3 storing stormwater.
4 I think it would be an important
5 contribution to look at all the lands that are
6 available in the city to see if we could put
7 them to additional purposes that might be
8 mutually beneficial and I think it's a great
9 suggestion.
10 MR. WILLIAMS: If I might just
11 add, first of all, I wish I had you as co-
12 author. Second, I did not restrict my remarks
13 to District-located federal land.
14 It seems to me that if we can do
15 this, and we're trying to do a policy element
16 for the region, if there is a solution that
17 can be had up the Anacostia and if it's in
18 Prince George's County but still on federal
19 land and it helps me, it helps address the
20 problems of the Anacostia as well as a
21 development site in the District, I don't see
22 that it should be off limits.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 36 1 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Mr. Miller.
2 MEMBER MILLER: Am I on? I'm on.
3 I missed the training session for that last
4 month.
5 Good afternoon. Lindsley, I think
6 all three of your suggestions are worthy of
7 consideration and I would add my voice to
8 yours and others to nudge the staff to maybe
9 incorporate them somehow. My question is did
10 you offer these comments previously during the
11 public comment period?
12 MR. WILLIAMS: No. I have to
13 confess and that's why I identified myself as
14 trouble. I did not see these things until I
15 did a final read over the weekend.
16 The other factor that came to
17 mind, particularly as to the third item, this
18 multipurposing or whatever, I've just become
19 increasingly aware of the difficulty being
20 faced by the pending stormwater regulations.
21 There was, to use another aquatic
22 term, a confluence of factors that led me to
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 37 1 do this. I saw the opportunity to make these
2 comments in the public session, but more
3 particularly the nature of the process that
4 they recommended by your director is to hold
5 all these things in abeyance. I said there's
6 the window of opportunity. I can make
7 comments and not derail the train.
8 MEMBER TREGONING: Would it be
9 appropriate for -- I guess Commission action
10 is final adoption. Should we put a motion out
11 that might be amended?
12 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: I was actually
13 going to ask if the action is for final
14 adoption but we are holding it in abeyance,
15 what position does that put us in to consider
16 some arguably minor but important changes?
17 MR. ACOSTA: You could either make
18 the amendments right now or, as Mr. Zaidain
19 also mentioned, you will be seeing the final
20 plan when it's all completed and you'll be
21 adopting that. We could also point where you
22 made the changes in that document. You could
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 38 1 do either.
2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: So there is
3 still time.
4 MR. ACOSTA: Yes, there's still
5 time to change it because, as David noted,
6 we're going to change some of the narrative.
7 Also there may be other things we find.
8 You'll have another shot at making
9 corrections. If you want us to do it, you
10 could also make the --
11 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Instead of us
12 trying to make changes on the fly, why don't
13 we -- I think staff has got the sense of the
14 Commission that we're more than mildly
15 interested in Mr. Williams' suggestions.
16 Perhaps we give some considered thought to it
17 and work with Mr. Williams as well and maybe
18 bring back amendments later. Is that okay?
19 Ms. Tregoning, is that all right?
20 MEMBER TREGONING: I'm just
21 looking at the language of the Commission
22 action which is final adoption of the updated
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 39 1 policy so I'm just trying to figure out --
2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: That was one of
3 my questions as well.
4 MEMBER TREGONING: Can we call it
5 interim adoption?
6 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Yeah, what
7 posture does that put us in?
8 MR. ZAIDAIN: Well, when we bring
9 the full document back for final adoption to
10 put it into effect, as part of that Commission
11 action we can point out any changes to the
12 policies that may have occurred from the
13 previous adoption if any.
14 MEMBER TREGONING: Can we just
15 call it adoption and not final adoption? Can
16 I make that amendment once we've got the
17 motion?
18 MR. ZAIDAIN: We'll make this a
19 point of the EDR. This change and any other
20 ones that may come up before we bring the
21 whole thing to you we'll make that a point of
22 the EDR when we bring it back.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 40 1 MR. ACOSTA: I guess the point
2 would be either we could wordsmith it right
3 now to reflect kind of the final policies, or
4 just bring it back to you when the whole thing
5 comes together. We can point out what the
6 changes are that you adopted but take out the
7 final.
8 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Okay. Let me
9 get the sense of staff. Do you want us to lay
10 this on the table temporarily for this meeting
11 and let you guys look at it and maybe adopt it
12 now and get it over with, or hold off and work
13 on it a little bit and bring it back when we
14 adopt the final final document?
15 MR. ACOSTA: I think you could
16 adopt it today with Ms. Tregoning's suggestion
17 to strike final off to give us some assurance
18 that not everything is settled. We'll bring
19 the entire Comp Plan back to you early next
20 year for final adoption. That would just make
21 it clear to everybody. Then we'll also point
22 out where the changes have been made to
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 41 1 reflect Mr. Williams' comments at the time.
2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: All right. Is
3 there a motion on the EDR to amend the EDR to
4 strike the word final?
5 MEMBER WHITE: So moved.
6 MEMBER WRIGHT: Second.
7 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: It's been moved
8 and seconded. All in favor of that amendment
9 say aye.
10 MEMBERS: Aye.
11 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Opposed no?
12 That amendment to the EDR is adopted.
13 Any further discussion?
14 Mr. Hart.
15 MEMBER HART: This is not on the
16 amendment of the EDR. I was pleased to see
17 the inclusion of climate change in this
18 environmental element. What I was looking for
19 in that discussion was really a bit more
20 pointed objectives of assessing the hazards
21 that climate change may impose on the
22 environment that we have come accustomed to.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 42 1 In particular, the potential rise
2 in sea level and its affect on the shoreline,
3 things like that, on the shoreline. I would
4 encourage that in the support of the analysis
5 impacts that there be a lot more attention
6 given to potential future land impacts of
7 climate change and, in particular, sea level
8 rise.
9 One foot of sea level rise creates
10 a dramatic change to the shoreline, to the
11 areas that are subject to inundation and flood
12 hazard. I've heard predictions of six to 12
13 feet over the next century of rise.
14 I don't know how legitimate those
15 predictions are but I think given the fact
16 that there's a history of increasing sea level
17 across the globe and the affects of climate on
18 the polar ice caps, that some analysis be
19 given to what is the potential impact, whether
20 it is realistic or projected simply based on
21 some of the past history I think would be very
22 useful.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 43 1 We are a planning agency. We look
2 to the future and we try to study the worse-
3 case scenarios and how to prevent that. I
4 applaud the inclusion of climate change. I
5 would like to see it become the beginning of
6 some significant analysis. Thank you.
7 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Other comments?
8 I had just one question for Mr. Zaidain.
9 I noticed in the public comment
10 section, what few public comments there were,
11 they were all concentrated on solid waste and
12 recycling. Our general response was we don't
13 have authority over solid waste and recycling
14 yet.
15 Elsewhere in the document we do
16 talk about solid waste and recycling in terms
17 of environmental justice. Then in our playing
18 documents kind of like with the southwest eco-
19 district we get into it.
20 So there is not a disconnect
21 between public comment and other evidence to
22 the contrary, can you explain in context why
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 44 1 we don't have authority in terms of what they
2 are asking, yet we do address solid waste and
3 recycling?
4 MR. ZAIDAIN: Maybe I didn't word
5 it correctly in the responses but essentially
6 my understanding of the public comments they
7 were about the certification of recycling
8 centers and solid waste management centers.
9 The USEPA and other agencies
10 certify those types of establishments and we
11 don't. The policies in the Comp Plan are more
12 about what federal agencies should do to
13 manage their solid waste but not so much the
14 certification of facilities.
15 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: I was just
16 looking for some clarification.
17 Sensing no additional questions or
18 comments, is there a motion on adopting as
19 amended the EDR on environmental elements?
20 MEMBER HART: So moved.
21 MEMBER MILLER: Second.
22 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: It's been moved
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 45 1 and seconded. All in favor of the amended EDR
2 say aye.
3 MEMBERS: Aye.
4 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Opposed no.
5 It's unanimously adopted. Thank you, Mr.
6 Zaidain, very much.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 46 1 5B NEW COMMISSARY AT FORT BELVOIR
2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Item 5B on the
3 agenda is the new commissary at Fort Belvoir
4 and we have Mr. Weil.
5 Welcome.
6 MR. WEIL: Thank you. Good
7 afternoon. This is a new commissary project
8 to be located on the north post portion of
9 Fort Belvoir in Fairfax County, Virginia.
10 This project is submitted by the Department of
11 the Army for preliminary building and site
12 development plan review.
13 Fort Belvoir is located
14 approximately 12 miles south of Washington,
15 D.C. just to the east of I-95. Here is a map
16 that shows the Fort and the project location
17 is shown with the red circle as being on the
18 north post.
19 Here is a closeup air photo
20 showing the existing condition. There is the
21 post exchange building and the existing
22 commissary building. There is a larger
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 47 1 planning effort to plan a North Post Town
2 Center which requires the shifting of the post
3 exchange building and the commissary building
4 to the northwest.
5 The Commission reviewed the post
6 exchange project three different times during
7 2010 and 2011. The future post exchange
8 center is currently undergoing construction
9 and is scheduled for opening in 2013.
10 Once that facility is operational
11 the existing post exchange building shown
12 there will be demolished and the future
13 commissary building will be relocated on the
14 site of the existing post exchange building.
15 During the Commission review of
16 the post exchange there were several
17 Commission concerns related to that project,
18 in particular, the large-scale tree removal
19 required by that project, the stormwater
20 management plans, and also a seeming lack of
21 design to the proposed town center plan.
22 This is essentially the place
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 48 1 holder design that was included in the
2 environmental assessment which was done in
3 2010 for that North Post Town Center. You
4 will note the proposed or the future post
5 exchange is the red square and the future
6 commissary building is the blue square.
7 In response to the Commission
8 concerns over the poor design of the northwest
9 town center, the Army worked with NCPC staff
10 to refine that town center concept.
11 The direction we were given due to
12 the relatively late planning stages,
13 relatively late in the planning process for
14 both the post exchange building and the
15 commissary, as well as the financial
16 constraints for the PX and the commissary, the
17 direction we were given was that while those
18 two pieces were essentially fixed as to their
19 forms, the rest of the post town center was a
20 relatively clean slate. NCPC staff worked
21 very closely with the Army to try to redesign
22 that portion of the town center.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 49 1 We looked at some existing
2 examples of successful existing and planned
3 town center-like developments within the
4 region. All of these town center developments
5 cater to both a regional clientele as well as
6 a local clientele which is similar to the
7 North Post Town Center.
8 The Army redesigned the North Post
9 Town Center to reflect a better design. They
10 incorporated a better circulation network
11 throughout the development. They incorporated
12 several special nodes where some special
13 place-making attention would enter into their
14 design. They really increased their mix of
15 uses in the new town center development.
16 In particular, they added some housing which
17 is shown in blue.
18 They also took a step back and
19 really made an effort to really foster more
20 walking, more bicycling, and more transient
21 usage between the existing and planned uses
22 directly adjacent to the new town center, in
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 50 1 particular, south of Gorgas Road and the
2 relatively large residential development
3 located to the southeast of the development
4 known as Lewis Village.
5 One of the other significant
6 design improvements that came out of that
7 effort was the design of a pedestrian
8 promenade that was intended to entice walkers
9 to walk between the more regional uses, the PX
10 center and the commissary, and the rest of the
11 more local town center development. I'll show
12 you that in a few slides.
13 Here is the actual commissary
14 building. This shows the typical red brick
15 facade that is pretty standard throughout Fort
16 Belvoir. This appearance meets the
17 installation design guidelines and is fairly
18 similar to the PX shopping center.
19 Here is a proposed floor plan for
20 the new 140,000 square foot commissary
21 building. This is being designed to meet LEED
22 Silver certification with a cool roof
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 51 1 primarily on the ground level. There will be
2 a 7,500 square foot elevated mezzanine level
3 for staff only.
4 Here is a larger commissary site
5 development plan. You can see the commissary
6 building will be situated in between the new
7 PX shopping center to the left and the rest of
8 the future town center development to the
9 right. I should note that the north is to the
10 left side of the slide.
11 In particular, in this particular
12 site plan, I want to draw your attention to
13 the fact that there will be a shared single
14 use parking facility for customers intended to
15 be shared by both the PX center and the
16 commissary. The customer parking for the
17 commissary will essentially just be expanding
18 the PX center customer lot to the south.
19 Here is a closer view of the site
20 plan. Commercial loading and vendor parking
21 provided along the east side of the commissary
22 in the rear of the building. A separate
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 52 1 employee parking lot with 66 spaces provided
2 to the south as well as future expansion
3 space. And, again, the 522 customer parking
4 lot located along the west side of the
5 building.
6 Here is the pedestrian promenade
7 forecourt area that will be located directly
8 in front of the commissary building. Again,
9 this was a design improvement that came out of
10 the redesign of the North Post Town Center
11 development effort.
12 Here is a closeup of that
13 pedestrian promenade. Again, this will
14 provide a critical segment as part of that
15 pedestrian spine that will encourage walkers
16 between the more local uses to the south and
17 the PX center and the new commissary.
18 You can see the original design to
19 the bottom. It was primarily designed simply
20 as an impervious plaza. The new design still
21 consist of that decorative stamped concrete.
22 However, there's a lot more seating included
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 53 1 now, a lot more pervious surface through
2 planting beds.
3 An effort was really made to try
4 to green it up to provide more of a parkway
5 setting, an environment and space where people
6 would want to gather and congregate and to
7 walk.
8 Here's some renderings showing
9 that newly designed space. This is looking
10 north towards the PX shopping center with the
11 commissary on the right. This is looking
12 southeast back across the space towards one of
13 the proposed commissary entrances. This is a
14 step-back elevated view looking to the
15 northwest. You can see the proposed PX
16 shopping center building to the left and the
17 commissary building to the right.
18 With that, staff reviewed the site
19 development plan. Staff noted that the
20 proposed customer lot is 80 spaces fewer than
21 the existing customer lot for the commissary.
22 The proposed commissary space is
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 54 1 approximately 80 percent larger than the
2 existing commissary. The parking that is
3 provided in the current site plan is less than
4 the amount of customer parking that would be
5 required by Fairfax County for a similar-size
6 development.
7 Staff also noted that the proposed
8 customer parking will be part of a shared use
9 single parking lot to try to encourage as
10 efficient of a customer utilization as
11 possible. However, staff has requested from
12 the Army more detailed customer demand
13 forecast information to really ensure that the
14 customer lot is as minimal as possible.
15 Staff also questioned the need for
16 a fully separate employee lot as well and was
17 wondering if that employee parking could also
18 be accommodated in the shared customer lot as
19 proposed.
20 In terms of stormwater management,
21 the Applicant has indicated that the site
22 design will meet Fairfax County, the
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 55 1 Commonwealth of Virginia, EISA, and Chesapeake
2 Bay Protection Act standards. However, due to
3 the preliminary nature of the design, it has
4 not been finalized to a point yet where you
5 can see those definitive values and really
6 ensure that it will meet those design
7 standards.
8 Staff notes that the proposed
9 design will utilize pervious concrete spaces
10 similar to the PX shopping center parking lot
11 which will help reduce the amount of
12 stormwater impacts.
13 The parking lot will utilize bio-
14 swales and other low-impact development
15 features as much as possible. Again, staff
16 wanted to bring to your attention the improved
17 forecourt area, pedestrian promenade area,
18 which now has a significantly better design
19 and a lot more pervious surface that the
20 existing design and it really kind of ties
21 both the commissary and the PX center more
22 successfully into the rest of the town center
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 56 1 design.
2 [INSERT - New Commissary]
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 57
1 [INSERT - Framework Development Plan]
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 58
1 [INSERT - Letter from Col. Strycula]
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 59 1 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Mr. Weil,
2 further define how much pervious concrete or
3 pervious space is there in the great scheme of
4 things relative to the first design? How much
5 additional is there now than what was
6 proposed?
7 MR. WEIL: Well, I can tell you
8 that approximately 68 percent of the surface
9 area, the parking surface area, will be
10 pervious concrete.
11 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Okay. That's
12 helpful.
13 MR. WEIL: Compared with zero
14 percent before.
15 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: That's helpful.
16 Thank you.
17 MR. WEIL: However, staff received
18 an income information package related to the
19 project reforestation and has requested
20 additional information from the Army on their
21 reforestation plan for the project.
22 Again, staff noted that due to the
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 60 1 preliminary nature of the stormwater design,
2 staff wanted to hold off on recommending
3 approval to ensure that it will, in fact, meet
4 all those various design standards.
5 That is the Executive Director's
6 recommendation to the Commission to approve
7 the preliminary building plans for the new
8 commissary but to defer action on the
9 preliminary site development plan due to
10 inadequate information on the Applicant's
11 reforestation plan, as well as proposed
12 parking and stormwater management plan.
13 And request that prior to
14 submitting for preliminary and final approval
15 of site development plans for the commissary,
16 the Applicant should provide the following:
17 Information on the tree
18 reforestation plan being developed for the
19 master plan update; documentation on the
20 project's compliance with stormwater
21 management standards for Fairfax County,
22 Commonwealth of Virginia, EISA, and Chesapeake
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 61 1 Bay Protection and Restoration Act; and a
2 detailed forecast or projected customer demand
3 for the shared parking lot to recommend the
4 elimination of a separate employee lot.
5 And to note that the Applicant has
6 worked with NCPC staff on the development of
7 a North Post Town Center small area plan in
8 response to previous Commission comments and
9 concerns, but that final North Post Town
10 Center plan will not be available until a
11 draft master plan is submitted to the
12 Commission for review in early 2013.
13 That concludes my presentation.
14 I'm now available to answer any questions. We
15 also have Chris Landgraf here from Fort
16 Belvoir who can answer any questions as well.
17 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: I have one
18 question. If the employee parking lot is
19 eliminated, is that to say it will become
20 green space or what is anticipated?
21 MR. WEIL: That is our hope. Our
22 hope that by having a shared used facility,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 62 1 that facility will have an appropriate number
2 of parking spaces that can accommodate that
3 employee parking as well to create a more
4 efficient parking facility.
5 Yes, our hope would be that space
6 would be green and would be additional
7 pervious space. Also people wouldn't have to
8 necessarily walk across the parking lot to
9 reach the rest of the town center development.
10 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Questions or
11 comments?
12 Mr. May.
13 MEMBER MAY: On the same subject,
14 the employee parking lot, there was a leap of
15 logic that I missed somehow in my reading of
16 the EDR in that it is noted that the employee
17 parking lot is larger than NCPC standards or
18 our standards.
19 There was no explanation of why
20 that simply means the best thing to do is to
21 eliminate it entirely. There is certainly
22 some logical practical reasons why one would
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 63 1 want to have a separate employee parking lot.
2 Having worked at a facility
3 similar to this a million years ago, the
4 policy was always the employees had to park
5 farthest away so the customers could park
6 closer but that's not a very easy thing to
7 enforce. I'm wonderful what the logic is of
8 not wanting to have any kind of separate
9 employee parking.
10 MR. WEIL: Well, basically that
11 was a recommendation based on the parking
12 demand information that we have which is
13 really no information. We just want to make
14 sure that the amount of pervious surface is as
15 minimal as possible in light of the past
16 history of the PX shopping center project.
17 That was just a thought on our part that maybe
18 that could be eliminated until proven
19 otherwise.
20 MEMBER MAY: It was just an
21 attempt to get rid of six parking spaces or
22 whatever it was.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 64 1 MR. WEIL: Right. Correct. And
2 really make sure that any sort of pervious --
3 MEMBER MAY: Because you thought
4 there were too many spaces because the only
5 thing it says in the report is that there are
6 seven too many or something like that.
7 MR. WEIL: Right. Well, I did
8 note, correct, that the proposed employee
9 parking did exceed the parking ratio goal in
10 the Comprehensive Plan.
11 MEMBER MAY: Right.
12 MR. WEIL: But, again, in an
13 effort to try to minimize the amount of
14 pervious surface on site, maybe that parking,
15 that separate parking lot, could be fully
16 eliminated and that employee parking could be
17 accommodated within the larger shared parking
18 facility.
19 DR. GLATZ: I have a question.
20 Peter, are you finished?
21 MEMBER MAY: Go ahead.
22 DR. GLATZ: How does Fort Belvoir
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 65 1 feel about this? What was the rationale? Do
2 we have anyone to answer that question? Do we
3 have a Fort Belvoir representative? I would
4 really like to know.
5 Before you speak I just want to
6 make one thing aware, pervious surface. I'm
7 an incredible environmentalist. I believe in
8 what you all believe but I am also a
9 structural expert and I want to make everyone
10 aware that pervious concrete has absolutely
11 zero structural value.
12 In order to make it work we have
13 to have the right base. If we don't have the
14 right base for it, we have to build the right
15 base. Otherwise, we will have similar
16 problems.
17 When we talk about the six parking
18 spaces could not be accommodated as they are
19 or be pervious, I would like to know how the
20 requirements came about and how do you feel
21 about the ratios which I have a hard time to
22 deal with, too, where we were just building
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 66 1 our TMP for the Pentagon. I would like to see
2 what led you to actually asking for those
3 parking spaces? Could any one of you answer
4 this question?
5 MR. LANDGRAF: We originally
6 requested the spaces based on the total
7 employee staff load for the largest shift. We
8 recognize the fact that we have between 60 and
9 70 full-time permanent employees, and then we
10 have about 53 during the peak shift temporary
11 employees that come in on two four-hour shift
12 changeover times.
13 The parking lot was requested
14 based on that. It was also based on the fact
15 that during that time we have vendors and
16 companies that actually come in during the
17 morning and the afternoon to restock based on
18 heavy demand.
19 What wasn't clearly submitted to
20 the Commission and to the staff, and our
21 design team is actually looking back into
22 based on Michael's questions, is that we do
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 67 1 actually need some of those parking spaces to
2 be designated specifically for the vendor
3 parking so that they can come in the backside
4 of the -- they are coming in smaller vehicles
5 than tractor trailers so they would need
6 spaces that are dedicated for them to be able
7 to off load their materials, bring it into the
8 backside, restock the shelves, and then leave
9 again.
10 That actually occurs throughout
11 the day according to the current commissary
12 operations manager. We are relooking at it
13 based on Michael's comment. I would like to
14 point out, and I did bring this to Michael's
15 attention just yesterday afternoon, that the
16 reason we had placed the employee parking on
17 that portion of the design plan was because it
18 also serves as a secondary use for emergency
19 vehicle access.
20 This is a 140,000 square feet
21 facility, as Michael said. The front part of
22 it is actually a two-story facility and so we
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 68 1 need three-sided access to this facility for
2 firefighting purposes should that ever have to
3 occur.
4 We really won't be able to
5 eliminate, even if we eliminate the parking or
6 we minimize it to the maximum extent practical
7 and get it back under our standards, there
8 will most likely have to be a drive aisle on
9 that side that is at least 24 feet wide to
10 accommodate a ladder truck given the size of
11 this facility.
12 We are looking at it and we do
13 agree that we had seven parking spaces too
14 many listed and we have already brought that
15 to the design team and are prepared to deal
16 with that question in the final submission.
17 MR. WEIL: And also I just want to
18 add something. What I told Chris on the
19 phone, and hopefully this will answer Mr.
20 May's question, again, we just want to know if
21 that employee lot could be fully eliminated.
22 I think the reason why it still
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 69 1 pointed out the fact that there were too many
2 parking spaces based on the ratio was that if
3 it can't be eliminated due to requirements,
4 such as Chris just said, you know, I was just
5 noting that it was still too many employee
6 spaces for that separate parking lot.
7 If the Army decides that they do
8 need a fully separate employee lot, then they
9 should note that based on the goal that they
10 should have no more than 59 spaces.
11 MR. LANDGRAF: And we agree and we
12 are looking at the parking requirements.
13 Again, going to fully identified employee
14 spaces versus flagged spaces that are
15 specifically for vendors, which would be co-
16 located but marked so that they are not for
17 employee parking.
18 Then to answer your question, we
19 are actually doing the full-spectrum analysis
20 for pervious pavement. We've done some
21 borings to determine what our infiltration
22 rates are. We are building our pavement so
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 70 1 that we have a suitable substructure because
2 we don't want failure of the porous concrete.
3 DR. GLATZ: Thank you for answer
4 my question.
5 MR. LANDGRAF: Thank you.
6 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Mr. May, did you
7 have anything else?
8 MEMBER MAY: I don't have
9 questions but when we're ready to discuss it
10 I --
11 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Let's finish the
12 questions.
13 Ms. Tregoning.
14 MEMBER TREGONING: I guess it's a
15 question. I mean, you made it very clear that
16 the PX is now under construction and is sort
17 of not part of the conversation, but I will
18 just point out I think it's somewhat tragic
19 that the PX and the commissary couldn't have
20 been situated across the street from each
21 other and created more of a town center. Now
22 one entire side of this development is all
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 71 1 parking.
2 In general that's just really bad
3 urban design in terms of getting -- you know,
4 you want two-sided retail and you could have
5 actually had all of the same uses and all of
6 the same parking even accommodated in a way
7 that would have been a lot more pedestrian
8 friendly and, frankly, made it more likely
9 that people would walk to those destinations.
10 I will just say it's a tragically
11 missed opportunity and I'm sorry that the Army
12 decided to go ahead with this project and not
13 have taken the time to consider those other
14 ideas.
15 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Other comments
16 or questions?
17 MEMBER WRIGHT: I'm sorry. You
18 opened up the door with the word tragic. I
19 just have to say something about the design
20 quality of these structures. Even though --
21 we are a planning agency so just a small
22 suggestion.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 72 1 If you are going to -- I note that
2 we advised a two-story building so there's
3 this gesture towards the two-story building
4 with these clear story windows that run the
5 length of the mezzanine for the staff offices.
6 Even though they don't run the length of the
7 building, just as a gesture you might continue
8 the fenestration just for grins.
9 I mean, it's just too bad. It
10 could have been much nicer on not just an
11 urban design context but just from -- you
12 know, this whole notion of retail and big
13 stores whether it's a commissary or PX or
14 whatever, you know, we came to some idea 25
15 years ago that big box stores equal town
16 centers somehow.
17 That is not the Army's fault.
18 That we are perpetuating that idea and calling
19 this a town center is among the other
20 tragedies here. I get on Figure 8 the
21 forecourt. It's a really nice attempt to
22 green-up and make some -- take away some of
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 73 1 the impervious acreage on the site.
2 I would ask that you demand more of your
3 designers because I cannot -- I don't know.
4 Maybe people do hang out in front
5 of the commissary but this is not going to be
6 a place that I think you are going to spend a
7 lot of money maintaining it all for nought
8 unless people behave very differently on an
9 Army base than they do in regular life. Maybe
10 they do but it just feels like enterprise
11 lost. Sorry. I can't help myself. I'll be
12 quiet now.
13 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Mr. May.
14 MEMBER MAY: Okay. Since we
15 started down this path, I couldn't agree more
16 with both Ms. Tregoning's comments and Ms.
17 Wright's comments. I mean, this is just --
18 it's almost painful having to review this
19 because of the failings on an urban design
20 level and an architectural level.
21 I mean, the difference between a
22 big box shopping center and a town center is
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 74 1 that you take one box and you turn it around
2 and face it to the other box and they haven't
3 even done that here.
4 MEMBER HART: And it's more than
5 that.
6 MEMBER MAY: Well, I mean, on the
7 most basic level. This is not -- I mean, this
8 doesn't come close to really being a town
9 center, it's the idea of it. But it is what
10 it is. They are very big boxes and I don't
11 think that there is anything we can do to
12 change the fact that they are going to be
13 building very big boxes. I mean, the best we
14 can hope for is better architecture and maybe
15 some slightly better planning and I'm not
16 seeing either of them here.
17 I don't see that it's grounds at
18 this point to say no because I think we've
19 been down that same no road before and it
20 doesn't seem to do very much, although there
21 is some evidence that it has done something.
22 I guess we have to accept this as what we're
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 75 1 going to get in this circumstance. I agree
2 whole heartedly this is just not very good.
3 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Other questions
4 or comments? Hearing none, is there a motion
5 to approve the EDR as written?
6 MEMBER TREGONING: Point of order.
7 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Please.
8 MEMBER TREGONING: Given how the
9 Commission members feel about this and given
10 how without our approval the PX went under
11 construction, why should we approve it is my
12 question.
13 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: This is advisory
14 but we've also made certain information
15 requests that if we don't act on this
16 whatsoever, we're not under any obligation to
17 have -- they are not under any obligation to
18 bring to us. There is hope to do additional
19 work on parking and such. I don't think it's
20 very good not to act at all or to act in the
21 negative.
22 MEMBER TREGONING: We don't have
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 76 1 to act to approve.
2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: We don't have to
3 act to --
4 MEMBER WRIGHT: I'm not sure that
5 I agree with Mr. May that we have no choice
6 but to accept it. I mean, yeah, the universe
7 has no choice but to accept it, it's under
8 construction. But sometimes symbolism is
9 important and bad design is bad design
10 perpetrated by any federal entity.
11 I find it hard to believe that if
12 GSA were to bring a project of this design
13 quality before the Commission, even through we
14 are a planning Commission, the lines between
15 planning and design are quite blurry
16 sometimes.
17 I find it difficult to say we
18 think this is okay. I'm not just -- I feel
19 like this is Groundhog Day over and over and
20 over again. I don't get why we criticize and
21 we say, "Please don't do this. We advise you
22 not to do this." Then every time we say, "But
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 77 1 okay."
2 I'm not inclined to vote for this.
3 I'm certainly not going to move it and I
4 probably will vote no just because I think
5 sometimes it matters to say, "No thank you.
6 Maybe you've made some effort here but it's
7 not quite good enough."
8 MEMBER MAY: I would add -- in
9 response to that I would just say I think
10 there actually has been a little bit of
11 movement and a step in the right direction.
12 I think we are sending a fairly strong message
13 by even having this discussion.
14 I would hate to think that if we
15 voted against it now that the result would be
16 that they would just ignore us. I mean, we
17 have an official process for ignoring us, I
18 know. I think if there is any progress at all
19 and if the staff thinks it's in our best --
20 it's best to advance this even with a tepid
21 vote in favor, maybe that is the best thing to
22 do.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 78 1 MEMBER WRIGHT: Just a question?
2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Hang on a
3 second. I will say that there has been
4 progress made in staff consultation. For
5 example, this is being built on a previously
6 developed site. There has been advances made
7 in parking and stormwater so there has been
8 effective consultation and progress being made
9 between the staffs. I will say that.
10 Also, I will say that some of this
11 is bred by not having an updated master plan,
12 as we all know. The status of the master plan
13 is, again, reflecting on our meeting at DoD
14 yesterday, the Navy, the Army, and the Air
15 Force and military command all to a person
16 understood not only why generally we want
17 updated master plans but they also understand
18 that it's to their benefit process-wise to do
19 this.
20 I have no doubt of their
21 commitment to getting us the master plan
22 because they are working pretty diligently.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 79 1 On this particular master plan I would say
2 that -- correct me if I'm misremembering but
3 it was suppose to be to us this fall.
4 They are three or four months
5 behind so perhaps the first of the year. One
6 could argue they are only three or four months
7 behind which is perhaps something given that
8 it's been years not having any at all. Those
9 are my thoughts.
10 Ms. Wright and then Mr. Hart.
11 MEMBER WRIGHT: That's good but
12 it's a day late and a dollar short and it's
13 just filling out the paperwork really. What
14 I'm talking about is inspirational and setting
15 standards that aren't necessarily goals that
16 are dictated by regulatory goals but rather
17 because it's just the right thing to do.
18 I think we need to take a stand at
19 some point and demand of one another we may
20 not always hit the mark but we should be
21 trying and we should require that of one
22 another. I think that matters.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 80 1 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: I'm not
2 disagreeing.
3 Mr. Hart.
4 MEMBER HART: In addition to the
5 master plan a portion of that is a
6 transportation management plan. I don't see
7 evidence in this that they're responding to
8 the objectives of the transportation
9 management plan with respect to reduced
10 parking, numbers of employees for which there
11 is parking.
12 I need a master plan that makes
13 sense in order to be able to vote on
14 individual projects. While there are a lot of
15 architectural design issues that I take
16 exception to, and I applaud a lot of the
17 environmental steps towards improving the
18 design, I have a basic problem with approving
19 projects that are not in the master plan
20 that's already approved because that is the
21 building framework that all these pieces fall
22 into.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 81 1 Ms. Tregoning.
2 MEMBER TREGONING: I will go on
3 record signifying our disappointment. Should
4 someone move to disapprove the plan? Even if
5 that motion should not carry that would become
6 part of the official record or not? A failed
7 motion?
8 MS. YOUNG: Yes, a failed motion
9 is part of the official record.
10 MEMBER TREGONING: I'm afraid if
11 someone were to move that that it might
12 actually be approved meaning that the motion
13 to disapprove might carry.
14 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: One could always
15 reconsider the motion.
16 MEMBER TREGONING: Is anyone
17 willing to move either one?
18 MEMBER WRIGHT: I'm willing to
19 make a motion to that effect, yes. I am.
20 MEMBER HART: And I will second
21 it.
22 MEMBER TREGONING: To disapprove?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 82 1 MEMBER WRIGHT: To disapprove.
2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: A motion is
3 always in order that the Chair entertains.
4 Mr. Wells?
5 MEMBER WELLS: In understanding
6 the reluctance to vote against this, is there
7 a concern of testing the jurisdictional
8 relationship to what our action is or what is
9 the ramifications? I mean, is there concern
10 that there will be precedent by forcing an
11 agency to ignore us? What is the concern?
12 MR. ACOSTA: I could answer that.
13 It does trigger a process. In the last round
14 of the PX the Commission actually voted to
15 disapprove that project and forced at that
16 time the Applicant to respond in detail why
17 they were going to do certain things.
18 In the final approval step the
19 Commission again disapproved it. At that time
20 they documented why they weren't going to
21 comply and basically said, "We are going ahead
22 and build it." But it does trigger a process.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 83 1 I do think it got their attention in some
2 aspects of this project but fundamentally it
3 didn't address the Commission's core concerns
4 that they have expressed at that time.
5 MEMBER WELLS: So if this motion
6 passes, it will trigger another -- the same
7 process again?
8 MR. ACOSTA: Yes.
9 MEMBER WELLS: So the purpose of
10 the motion is to send a message by hopefully
11 it not passing because we don't want to put
12 them through the process again?
13 MR. ACOSTA: There are two options
14 here. One is not taking action at all and
15 basically the Commission has seded its ability
16 to make any comments regarding this project.
17 Second is if you could take
18 affirmative action or negative action you are,
19 in fact, sending comments back to the
20 Applicant expressing your concerns about this
21 project. Voice those concerns and they will
22 be placed on record.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 84 1 I think in response to Ms.
2 Wright's concerns, that would at least
3 document your concerns regardless of whether
4 you like it or not and at least relay that to
5 the Applicant in terms of what those concerns
6 are. I think that's the difference.
7 One is you're not saying anything
8 and the Applicant is free to proceed. The
9 second option which is to vote on something
10 will at least allow you to put on record
11 whatever comment you may have. I do think in
12 some respects the comments make some
13 difference.
14 I do think in this case they are
15 basically small-level interventions just
16 because the Army, in fact, at this point in
17 time is not able to make any significant
18 modifications to the site plan in terms of
19 where the buildings are located. Everything
20 that you see right now are essentially small-
21 scale interventions.
22 I would remind the Commission that
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 85 1 at the last meeting it actually had proposed
2 a plan for the other portion of this town
3 center which I do think is significantly
4 better than what they had proposed. It is
5 more of the small-scale retail and residential
6 areas of which this would tie into.
7 I do think at least the Commission
8 at that point got the message across that
9 something had to be done over all with respect
10 to this project. I do think hopefully there
11 are vast improvements to that portion of this
12 area.
13 Unfortunately, with respect to the
14 PX and commissary these are, indeed, just
15 small interventions. Regardless of that, I
16 think you do have choices here.
17 I do share those concerns also but
18 I think with respect to the staff's work we
19 are just trying to make sure that this project
20 regardless of how much intervention is
21 conducted in this area is as good as it can
22 be. I do agree that a lot of this is small
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 86 1 scale but I do think they will make some
2 difference in terms of the quality of the
3 project. They could do more but I think
4 that's the point.
5 The other piece of it is there
6 were a lot of questions about parking and
7 traffic and the number of spaces that they
8 need. I think Mr. May made a good point. The
9 question is whether they can consolidate it
10 into one facility or should it be two.
11 This actually would defer a
12 decision on the remainder of the site plan so
13 at least they could come back and show you
14 kind of a revised version of that and whether
15 they could accommodate the issues that you
16 raised or not, at least with respect to the
17 parking and other portions of it that aren't
18 related to the building.
19 That is the other thing that this
20 recommendation would do, to at least bring
21 that back to the table and at least work those
22 things through so you won't have -- at least
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 87 1 you won't have a major traffic problem on the
2 site.
3 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Remember, this
4 is preliminary approval for the building plan
5 so they will have to come back to us for the
6 final. It's a deferred preliminary approval
7 of the site plans so they still have to come
8 back before us.
9 With that, the Chair would
10 entertain a motion. Any motion. What was the
11 -- so it was articulated? Okay. And there
12 was a second? The motion on the floor is to
13 disapprove the EDR as written.
14 MEMBER HART: To disapprove the
15 plan as submitted. Correct? To disapprove.
16 Indeed. Hearing no further discussion --
17 MEMBER WHITE: Can I just ask one
18 thing so I understand? So does the staff have
19 any changes to your proposed actions based on
20 the discussion of the Commission today? Your
21 proposed action is to approve the building
22 with comments and defer approval on the site.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 88 1 Does that still stand as the staff reaction --
2 or staff action rather?
3 MR. ACOSTA: I think that could
4 work. I think the key is, again, at least at
5 this point, the traffic and parking issues.
6 At least we would like them to come back and
7 bring that back to the Commission, at least in
8 terms of understanding kind of really what is
9 going on with respect to transportation in the
10 area and they think those recommendation do
11 that.
12 I think you are making a statement
13 with respect to the disapproval in terms of
14 the building itself. The deferral will at
15 least leave the site development issues in
16 play until we get further information. We can
17 still work through that.
18 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Well, to make
19 sure I understand, the motion is to amend the
20 EDR to say disapprove instead of approve and
21 then everything else is the same.
22 MEMBER WHITE: Thank you.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 89 1 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: So it's been
2 moved and seconded. All in favor of amending
3 the EDR as noted say aye.
4 MEMBERS: Aye.
5 MEMBER WRIGHT: You mean
6 disapproval.
7 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Yes.
8 MEMBER WRIGHT: Aye.
9 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Opposed no.
10 Just to make sure, all in favor of --
11 MEMBER WRIGHT: Of disapproving.
12 CHAIRMAN BRYANT:-- disapproving.
13 One, two, three, four, five. Those voting the
14 other way. One, two, three, four. So it
15 passes five to four. I'm going to vote to
16 approve. I vote against the motion.
17 MEMBER: Then I think we need to
18 recount.
19 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: It's five to
20 five.
21 MEMBER WELLS: Did the Chair vote?
22 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: I did. Five to
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 90 1 five. It's tied.
2 MEMBER: That was the motion to
3 disapprove. Does anyone want to make a motion
4 to approve?
5 MS. YOUNG: Excuse me.
6 DR. GLATZ: I make a motion to
7 approve it.
8 MS. YOUNG: Dr. Glatz, you cannot
9 vote.
10 DR. GLATZ: Okay. I'm sorry.
11 MS. YOUNG: The first motion was
12 fine.
13 She cannot vote.
14 DR. GLATZ: I was assigned to be a
15 representative today.
16 MS. YOUNG: We have to have a
17 letter from the Secretary of Defense saying
18 that you are sitting for him.
19 DR. GLATZ: I thought that was
20 done. Sorry. It's probably some place in the
21 mail. I'm sorry.
22 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: So it's five to
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 91 1 four then. The motion to disapprove passed
2 five to four.
3 Agenda Item 6A.
4 MS. SCHUYLER: Could I just make a
5 point? Excuse me. I think it's important to
6 note that unless the assignment for the
7 alternates includes the ability for them to
8 vote, they can't vote. Therefore, you who
9 have multiple levels should make sure if
10 another alternate is appearing, they have the
11 authority to vote.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 92 1 6A THE NATIONAL MALL DESIGN COMPETITION
2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Agenda Item 6A
3 is an information presentation on the National
4 Mall Design Competition focusing on
5 Constitution Gardens and Sylvan Theater.
6 We have Ms. Hirsch. Welcome.
7 MS. HIRSCH: Good afternoon. The
8 National Park Service is here with the Trust
9 for the National Mall to provide two
10 information presentations on two different
11 sites on the National Mall. The first is the
12 Sylvan Theater on the Washington Monument
13 grounds. The second is for Constitution
14 Gardens.
15 The Trust for the National Mall,
16 as you know, held a design competition last
17 year for these sites in an effort to advance
18 the ideas in the National Mall plan. At this
19 point staff has had early consultation with
20 the Park Service and the Trust.
21 Essentially the projects are just
22 at the very early stages. We anticipate that
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 93 1 the projects would be coming before the
2 Commission in the next year or so.
3 With that, I'm going to turn it
4 over to the Park Service and the Trust to
5 introduce the project and the designers.
6 [INSERT - National Mall Design Competition]
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 94 1 MEMBER MAY: Are you looking at me
2 because I thought that maybe --
3 Steve Lorenzetti, did you want to
4 say any opening remarks to kick things off
5 before you pass it onto the Trust?
6 MR. LORENZETTI: I didn't know you
7 were looking at me either.
8 Thank you for letting us come and
9 present. The Trust is our partner. They are
10 helping us with the implementation of the
11 National Mall plan. They have run a design
12 competition for two of our sites, Constitution
13 Gardens, which has -- I understand that was
14 never quite complete in the original SOM
15 design.
16 As well as a re-imaging of how we
17 should use the Sylvan Theater on the
18 Washington Monument grounds. We are working
19 closely with the Trust to try to have these
20 projects come to -- at least one of them come
21 to fruition before our centennial.
22 With that I would like to turn it
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 95 1 over to Caroline Cunningham with the Trust.
2 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Good afternoon.
3 Thank you so much for your time. My name is
4 Caroline Cunningham. I'm the president of the
5 Trust for the National Mall. As both Peter
6 and Steve mentioned, we held a design
7 competition run by Don Stastny. Many of you
8 know him. He developed the design excellence
9 guidelines for GSA.
10 We ran a national competition last
11 year culminating in May in tree designs; one
12 for Constitution Gardens, one for Washington
13 Monument grounds at Sylvan Theater, and one
14 for Union Square in front of the Capitol.
15 Unfortunately -- I think all of
16 the designs are stunning. Unfortunately,
17 Union Square was taken by Congress in December
18 of 2011 in their omnibus or their continuing
19 resolution, I don't know which, which a format
20 of their budget they passed last year.
21 The Trust for the National Mall
22 wanted to present this information to you. I
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 96 1 have to tell you we have been working as part
2 of the steering committee of the design
3 competition with the District Office of
4 Planning, the National Capital Planning
5 Commission, the Smithsonian, the National
6 Gallery of Art, the Commission on Fine Arts,
7 we wanted to make certain that all voices
8 while we were developing the programs for
9 these elements were involved in the outcome.
10 The jury which, I think, is not
11 only very helpful to us but I think came
12 together and made a unanimous decision on the
13 final outcomes of each of these locations. I
14 think what they delivered to us was really
15 quite stunning.
16 I think all of the designs are
17 respectful of the historic context of the
18 park. They also restore the park in a more
19 meaningful sustainable way. In particular, on
20 Constitution Gardens which never really could
21 sustain the quality of environment given the
22 soil and the water systems. We are very proud
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 97 1 to present these to you.
2 The purpose really of this
3 discussion is to get your input before we
4 start discussing alternatives. We wanted to
5 make sure that you had at least exposure with
6 these plans so that you could provide us some
7 guidance as we take the next step. The next
8 step is working through alternatives and
9 getting a very good handle on costs associated
10 with both of these projects.
11 At that point we would turn it
12 over, what we think, probably in February of
13 next year, beginning of March, over to the
14 Park Service and our board of directors with
15 a very strong understanding of costs so they
16 could make a determination on what project to
17 go forward with. Then we would go through the
18 natural alternatives process and take what you
19 will see as original concepts to final design.
20 We anticipate that process will
21 get us to about 2014 while we at the same time
22 raise the funds for these projects. And then,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 98 1 as Steve said, complete one of the projects by
2 2016 as a gift to the nation for the 100th
3 anniversary of the National Park Service.
4 I am very honored by the quality
5 of work that was done by the designers that
6 were chosen. I'm very grateful to the people
7 who are here who participated on the design
8 competition and the technical advisory group.
9 I think that they helped us shape this project
10 in a very important and an outcome I think
11 will benefit not only the country but the
12 District as well.
13 I will start with Constitution
14 Gardens.
15 MR. GREENSPAN: Good afternoon.
16 I'm Adam Greenspan, a partner at PWP Landscape
17 Architects and we with Rogers Marvel
18 Architects submitted the competition scheme
19 for Constitution Gardens.
20 What we realized when we started
21 our work here was that Peter Walker, who has
22 been working in D.C. for 50 or 60 years, and
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 99 1 I for 20 years, neither of us knew
2 Constitution Gardens by name or where it was.
3 Where it is is around the Vietnam
4 Memorial site and over where that box is
5 adjacent to the Mall proper. The interesting
6 thing about it is it's a curvilinear design,
7 a place that is distinctly different from the
8 rest of the Mall. It's less monumental, more
9 natural in a sense.
10 When we looked at the history of
11 it, we definitely see it as curvilinear but
12 definitely related to modernism, a more
13 biomorphic modernism like the Roberto Burle
14 Marx paintings and drawings. We were
15 definitely drawn to the sinuous line that made
16 the edge, and makes the edge today, of the
17 pond.
18 The fantastic reflection that you
19 get of the Washington Monument and anything
20 around it. We were committed to maintaining
21 these significant character aspects of the
22 piece itself in any new design, but also we
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 100 1 were looking at a lot of the problems that we
2 have there today. This is that sinuous edge
3 today in a number of different areas and that
4 is really emblematic of a lot of deterioration
5 and a lot of death and dying. Two-thirds of
6 the trees that were planted in 1976 have died.
7 Many of those were replaced once
8 or twice over. The soils there really aren't
9 healthy and are dying and literally slumping
10 into the ground so the form that it had in the
11 beginning is not there any more. The lake
12 itself really was only aesthetic. It wasn't
13 something that was connected to the land and
14 to life.
15 What we believe is that this
16 place, Constitution Gardens, can become a
17 place with a really special kind of life on
18 the Mall, different than every other place on
19 the Mall. Not monumental. A respite away
20 from the larger-scaled areas and, in some
21 ways, a place for smaller groups rather than
22 crowds.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 101 1 What we were looking at was some
2 of the existing trees and the way that the
3 trees in the lower areas, the lower elevations
4 in this gray space here, were the trees that
5 were found to be mostly dead and dying; the
6 red, the orange, and the yellows in this plan
7 versus the green.
8 There were still some green and
9 healthy blue trees as mapped in this survey in
10 the upper areas, the higher elevations. This
11 is because the soil here was slumping. It was
12 waterlogged.
13 The trees weren't able to deal in
14 the conditions that they've been given.
15 There's a lot of construction debris that is
16 likely in the soil there left from
17 architecture that had been on the site before
18 construction and that was just left
19 underneath.
20 The heart of our scheme can be
21 expressed in this section. This is
22 Constitution Avenue over here. This is the
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 102 1 existing lake elevation. We are proposing
2 enhancing the topography all around the lake
3 so that you get this series of rolling hills.
4 Those rolling hills are more like the original
5 grading plan that SOM did that has sunk over
6 time.
7 But we're talking about enhancing
8 that even more so that you have a feeling of
9 enclosure and a feeling of envelopment in this
10 landscape so when you come from the bigger
11 space of the Mall, the traffic of Constitution
12 Avenue, you come through gateways between
13 those hills and enter into a space that will
14 be full of life, integrated life; all people,
15 plants, and animals together.
16 So when we look at this, this is
17 the level of the existing grade today. In the
18 past it was probably up a little bit higher
19 than that. We're proposing putting in a
20 continuous drainage layer of sand so that this
21 entire construction drains well and lives in
22 a health way in the future.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 103 1 One other thing that our scheme
2 does is tries to connect the paths and the
3 experience of Constitution Gardens to the
4 memorials around it; the World War II Memorial
5 as well as the Vietnam Memorial. But also
6 connecting in a more visible and more
7 celebrated way to all of the street coming
8 from the north that go into the park.
9 Even though we do have that
10 undulating edge with the raised topography,
11 there are points where those come down and you
12 are able to walk in. Between a small -- a low
13 wall that runs around, a seat wall that gives
14 the gardens an identity and a place for
15 naming.
16 We've also connected the Vietnam
17 Memorial to an adjusted path system that flows
18 very smoothly and effortlessly from the end of
19 the Vietnam Memorial so that when you come out
20 of that, you can either continue on into the
21 gardens or you continue back to the
22 interpretational area related to Vietnam.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 104 1 What we end up having is a garden
2 that's connected both to D.C. and the rest of
3 the Mall. Inside of that garden, inside of
4 those edges which are surrounded by the
5 topography and a continuous wooded edge that
6 you can see here.
7 We have a lot of nooks and
8 crannies, large spaces and small spaces where
9 there can be events as well as smaller less
10 organized activities for people as they go
11 through.
12 This is an elevation looking south
13 from Constitution Avenue. You see the land
14 form goes up and down, up and down. Each of
15 these points down are those breaks in that low
16 wall as well as that land form. They offer a
17 big welcoming entry into the gardens. But
18 also views.
19 Right now this is an elevation so
20 you can't see it but if you were standing or
21 in your car here, you would get a view across
22 the lake all the way across to the gardens and
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 105 1 the flowering displays on the other side.
2 Another episode that exist today
3 in the garden is the 56 Signers Memorial. We
4 are maintaining that memorial on that island
5 but enhancing it through making a better
6 threshold and nicer bridge and coming across
7 a wetland area and through sort of a scrim of
8 willows onto the more open island.
9 Adding magnolias to that so this
10 really becomes something that is set off in
11 the seasons and you get a different view
12 across the lake.
13 Some of the most interesting ideas
14 we felt in the competition were putting
15 elements within the lake that maintain its
16 reflection and maintain the ways that it
17 contributes today. But also expand either its
18 health and the way that it's integrated with
19 the rest of the garden and ecology or social
20 activity.
21 One of those ideas is the water
22 ring. It's something that exist at the far
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 106 1 eastern end of the lake and is about the size
2 of a hockey rink. This is a space that we
3 think can be drained and turned into an
4 iceskating rink. Something that feels more
5 like you're skating on a frozen pond than
6 skating in an urban setting on a plaza or
7 something like that.
8 In the summer if you drain it only
9 slightly, it reveals a path and a walkway that
10 runs around that slightly lower space in the
11 center so that becomes a venue for model
12 boating like in Central Park or in Paris. And
13 fishing on National Fishing Day is something
14 that already takes place there every year but
15 this will be a new way to experience and get
16 into the lake.
17 So that lake is part of an
18 integrated water system that we have really
19 designed the whole gardens around. We are
20 hoping to collect rain run-off and urban run-
21 off from the buildings across Constitution
22 Avenue, as well as our building, a pavilion
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 107 1 building that Rob will talk about momentarily.
2 We are also looking at containing
3 and collecting all of the surface run-off and
4 the subdrainage into the lake so that becomes
5 then the generator of irrigation water and the
6 place where that water can be filtered and
7 then recycled.
8 The existing work that's being
9 done that connects the reflecting pool to the
10 Tidal Basin is something we also looked at
11 continuing and connecting so that the lake can
12 be flushed periodically or topped off with
13 Tidal Basin water as needed.
14 So this represents an integrated
15 topography of the wooded edge at the highest
16 levels with open lawns that are flexible and
17 can be used in different ways by people.
18 Then upland and lowland gardens, a
19 wetland shelf at the bottom where water that
20 moves through this is being filtered as it
21 comes down going into the ground and then
22 transported also in the subterranean sand
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 108 1 layer.
2 Then the pond itself is made much
3 deeper so that it can be maintained in a
4 healthy condition and planted heavily the edge
5 so something more interesting to look at but
6 also something that gets filtered by those
7 plants.
8 So today this is the view that
9 we're having. While this is a legacy and
10 represents a couple of the aspects that we
11 wanted to maintain over time, it also shows
12 some of the problems. We are looking at the
13 things that are liabilities today like the
14 contaminated soil as being something that
15 becomes an integrated part, or an integral
16 part, of our construction.
17 The land forms that we're talking
18 about can be made from the harvested
19 contaminated soil on site so that this can be
20 done in a rather incremental way around the
21 lake or around the site where both trees and
22 soil are harvested and moved.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 109 1 The healthiest trees we're
2 proposing do get salvaged and become part of
3 the woods that runs around the park. Whereas,
4 single trees that are specimen quality could
5 be used as individual trees in open lawn
6 areas.
7 So when you see this diagram here,
8 this color represents the woods, a sort of
9 composed woodland that is made in part of the
10 trees that we would harvest from the site but
11 aren't of specimen quality but are in good
12 health, larger trees, and then the wetland
13 shelf and the lower plantings. So these are
14 some images of the character of the spaces
15 that we'll be developing.
16 This shows really the distribution
17 around the site. We'll have upland and
18 lowland gardens with different pallets, a
19 wetland shelf, and a wood with understory
20 underneath it separating the maintenance needs
21 of the different kinds of landscapes so the
22 Park Service can maintain lawns and lawns
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 110 1 only, maintain trees with groundcover under
2 them in a different way.
3 Even though we'll have these
4 different types of landscapes and types of
5 expression in the garden, one thing that we
6 try to focus on was the simplicity and the
7 boldness of the original design.
8 As we have a pallet in each of
9 these gardens of different plants to make
10 something has interest and shows itself over
11 the seasons, each season should express itself
12 clearly as one or two colors and organizing
13 that by looking at different heights on the
14 plants that bloom at different times of the
15 year.
16 Within that plan we have an
17 opportunity for a lot of different events.
18 One space I didn't talk about is a large
19 outdoor amphitheater as well as the pavilion
20 that we have at the far eastern edge of the
21 site. Those two spaces are the most highly
22 programmed spaces in the garden and the places
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 111 1 that we can bring lots of people for organized
2 events.
3 The building itself will be the
4 hub for all of that activity that I just
5 talked about. Instead of having a number of
6 pavilions throughout this about 20 acres we
7 are looking at it being one place and one
8 building that fits and is able to serve all of
9 the activities that we have.
10 This is an image of the
11 amphitheater and looking east the pavilion.
12 This amphitheater can range from about 100
13 people or a few people up to 1,000 or 2,000.
14 This is at the far western and the
15 Vietnam Memorial is farther to the left here.
16 The topography all around the pond quiets the
17 sound of whatever goes on inside. We've had
18 studies done so different kinds of events or
19 kinds of celebrations can happen in the garden
20 and not impose themselves on the other
21 activities adjacent to the garden.
22 Lastly, this is an image looking
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 112 1 at what we envision for nighttime here. We
2 use the historical lamp but I think using
3 lighting to both highlight the design that we
4 have and also make it a safer and more useable
5 place through much of the day is something
6 that we are really aiming to do both through
7 the day and through the year.
8 MR. ROGERS: Thank you. Rob
9 Rogers, Rogers Marvel Architects. As we were
10 working with Adam and Dean in their office
11 thinking about the building configuration for
12 the site which, as Adam mentioned, is really
13 about supporting the incredible programmatic
14 opportunities of the rebuilt garden, we also
15 looked at the legacy of the SOM and the Dan
16 Kiley plan and began to imagine how those
17 guide us today in terms of not just the
18 reconstruction of the landscape but the
19 position and proposition for a building in
20 that site.
21 One of the obvious things is to
22 say that we really felt just as the hills and
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 113 1 the low wall have begun the redefinition of
2 Constitution Gardens, this building as a
3 pavilion, as a proposition, has to be a
4 building that belongs to the garden.
5 It's not a memorial. It's not a
6 monument. It's not of the scale of the Mall
7 as a whole. It's really particular to the
8 garden so it's kept low and it's within the
9 canopy trees of Constitution Gardens.
10 When we looked at the original
11 site the SOM building was originally intended
12 at the top of what is now a series of step
13 terraces going down to the lake and we felt
14 that at the time may have been the right
15 place, but since then the World War II
16 Memorial has been constructed and the formal
17 axis exist now north and south from that axis
18 and we really felt that cannot be disrupted by
19 a building in the current configuration.
20 So we pushed the idea of the
21 building to the west as indicated by the large
22 red arrow and thought of it as a very simple
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 114 1 pavilion. Now instead of coming up the
2 terrace steps to arrive at a building, we
3 actually pushed the building and steps
4 together and began to imagine it as a pavilion
5 looking out over the lake but the pavilion
6 then is also a threshold moment to enter
7 Constitution Gardens and announce that special
8 place.
9 We started with a very simple
10 rectilinear piece and just widened it to open
11 it up so it will favor the big long landscape
12 panoramic view looking out across the lake and
13 the gardens.
14 It's also -- as Adam mentioned,
15 when you're moving through Constitution
16 Gardens it's a very spirited curvilinear
17 lyrical kind of walk as you move in and out of
18 the lake, especially now augmented by those
19 gardens.
20 We felt that the shape needed to
21 have a perspectival component so that it would
22 dynamically change as you move around it
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 115 1 throughout the garden experience.
2 We also after building this area
3 up to meet all the current criteria to
4 integrate with the work of the Army Corps and
5 establishing the levee heights so this is the
6 transient height correct to get across and
7 then down into the World War II Memorial do we
8 actually slope slightly up lifting the
9 pavilion as it sort of ramps up so that you've
10 really got a porch and a prospect looking out
11 over the new gardens.
12 It also gives us adequate space
13 underneath for what will become an area of
14 concessions, rest rooms, and classic park
15 amenities, ice skating rental, boat rental,
16 kite rental, things like those opportunities.
17 We've also proposed a plaza-type
18 space on the east side of the pavilion so that
19 we've got a place for school groups and
20 interpretation, education, and gathering as
21 people move to and from the memorials, and a
22 place that actually the pavilion can expand.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 116 1 I'm going to walk you through the
2 pavilion now as a sort of threshold and
3 gateway to the gardens as you move down those
4 large generous stairs, great place for
5 impromptu activities and events, down to the
6 lake level with the concessions, restrooms,
7 park facilities just to your left in this
8 image.
9 The building is really split.
10 There's the big grand stair that takes you
11 down to the lake level, the concessions,
12 restroom, bathrooms on the lower level. We've
13 incorporated very substantial service areas
14 which will be accessed by an independent
15 roadway so we can actually get the kind of
16 service we need to really deliver food, pick
17 up trash, manage some of the park's
18 maintenance relationships.
19 On the upper level you've got the
20 very light ramp, only about 3 percent, up to
21 the prospect and the porch that looks out over
22 the lake, and then a proposed restaurant and
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 117 1 cafe with service areas below. We've proposed
2 initially a diagrid structural system that
3 will span across creating a lattice that gives
4 us the opportunity of both transparency and
5 closed areas where we want condition space and
6 where we want open space.
7 The pavilion is really the heart
8 of the programming that will enable
9 Constitution Gardens to become viable 365 days
10 a year. We are interested not just in the
11 tourist who needs a moment to stop and rest
12 but the resident, the worker who is in D.C.
13 all the time, that this is a place that they
14 can also come in and enjoy the Mall in a park-
15 like setting.
16 At the corner of constitution and
17 17th we've proposed a modest relocation of the
18 Lock Keeper's House which will become an
19 interpretive center for the Constitution
20 Gardens and the Mall.
21 You can see the building is
22 visible through the trees but is not a major
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 118 1 presence from that side. We believe this is
2 a place for these kind of moments of respite
3 and recreation and refreshment along the Mall.
4 Looking forward to this being something that
5 becomes part of the life of the city
6 throughout the year. Thank you very much.
7 MS. HIRSCH: We can either take --
8 we were going to do both presentations and
9 then take questions and comments.
10 MEMBER TREGONING: I was just
11 wondering because if you're going to have to
12 toggle back and forth between presentations --
13 so, you're going to take questions?
14 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Yes. I'm sorry.
15 Please.
16 MEMBER TREGONING: So I liked it.
17 I think it's really beautiful. My only
18 question has to do with the topography changes
19 and the Woodland areas. How deep and how
20 visually impenetrable are those areas? My
21 question is what is the visibility mostly for
22 safety reasons from the exterior of
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 119 1 Constitution Gardens through the Woodland
2 features?
3 MR. GREENSPAN: I think that is
4 something that we are concerned about
5 definitely also. The idea there is that they
6 will be a composed Woodland with lower ground
7 cover There may be a number of trunks coming
8 down but the goal of having mature trees
9 limbed up, no limbs branching below eight feet
10 on these trees, and a lower groundcover.
11 The topography goes up a few feet
12 but these are large land forms so it's not a
13 berm that is discrete and singular where
14 somebody could hide behind it. It's more like
15 a hill. What you'll be seeing will be these
16 moments where you see from Constitution Avenue
17 up to the peak of that hill.
18 As you move through that space
19 you'll get an expanded view of the other side
20 as you move around. You won't see on the
21 other side of the hill but you will see
22 oblique views. Like I showed on the long
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 120 1 elevation, we do have this undulating change
2 so it's not an abrupt or sharp, you know, bump
3 where you can spend time on one side or the
4 other.
5 It's something that is a slow
6 grade going down and slowly coming up again
7 as you move through. This will be closer to
8 the scale of the areas around the Washington
9 Monument today actually in some spaces so
10 larger land forms rather than smaller berms.
11 MEMBER TREGONING: But basically
12 if you're on Constitution Avenue you really
13 can't see any activity happening around
14 Constitution Gardens except for those pathways
15 that punctuate. What is the distance between
16 those roughly?
17 MR. GREENSPAN: This is about --
18 you're asking what is the distance here?
19 MEMBER TREGONING: No. I'm asking
20 the distance -- so if the distance of the land
21 form between the separations, like is as big
22 as a city block? Is it half a block? Is it
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 121 1 200 feet?
2 MR. GREENSPAN: Right now today
3 there is a very small opening or small pathway
4 coming across the street. This is about the
5 width of the entire street so it's probably
6 about 50 feet wide to 70 feet wide with a flap
7 opening in between and then it begins to roll
8 up on either side.
9 MEMBER TREGONING: I'm not asking
10 about the width of the opening. I'm asking
11 the width of the area that because of the land
12 form and the trees you cannot see inside
13 Constitution Garden so how big is that area in
14 between the opening?
15 MR. GREENSPAN: Oh, okay. It
16 wouldn't be that you can't see inside and what
17 we can do as we move forward is look at three
18 dimensional topomodels. That is a block that
19 was there. This is roughly a block or two-
20 thirds of a block.
21 As you are moving down you will
22 get views into the space through here.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 122 1 Because this slopes down and in here we're at
2 a low point so you will be getting view
3 through. It won't be completely separate.
4 MEMBER TREGONING: I know, but
5 what you're saying to me though, and I think
6 it is very beautiful but you are going to walk
7 the length of an entire block before you can
8 look into Constitution Gardens again.
9 While you're in the opening you
10 will be able to have a panorama but when you
11 are not standing in front of the opening, or
12 next to the opening, you're walking an entire
13 block when you don't have a sense of what the
14 activity is inside.
15 MR. GREENSPAN: You will be seeing
16 these windows obliquely as you move down.
17 Yes, there will be about a block where you are
18 not getting a view across the way.
19 MEMBER TREGONING: I would just
20 express some concerns both about safety and
21 about what kind of experience that creates for
22 the pedestrian on Constitution Avenue,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 123 1 somewhat a deadening experience for the
2 pedestrian that there might be wonderful
3 activity happening but you are not really
4 going to be able to be aware of it because all
5 you're seeing is the rise of the land form and
6 then trees and no human activity basically.
7 MR. GREENSPAN: I think that is
8 something we have to definitely take into
9 account and we'll look at. I think we'll want
10 to make it so that you can see in a little bit
11 more frequently than that.
12 MEMBER WHITE: Going back to your
13 building, I'm sure you have it in the plan and
14 I just didn't see it but the ADA accessibility
15 and how folks in wheelchairs would get from
16 one level to the other.
17 MR. ROGERS: It is there. I'll
18 take you there in one moment.
19 MEMBER WHITE: Right.
20 MR. ROGERS: The terrace is really
21 over this area of service below and then a
22 very modest slope up to this porch. There is
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 124 1 an elevator right here that goes both up and
2 down so that if you come at the lower level,
3 you can ascend right there and have that porch
4 experience. Or if you come in here, you can
5 move up here and take that down as well.
6 MEMBER WHITE: Thank you.
7 MR. ROGERS: There is also -- I
8 would have to go back to the plans but there
9 are pathways that make -- bad analogy --
10 elephant ears, if you will, on either side of
11 the building that come down at that very
12 modest non-railing slope so they connect
13 directly that sort of concentration,
14 refreshment, concession area to the plaza on
15 the top.
16 MEMBER WHITE: So there is still
17 an outdoor alternative?
18 MR. ROGERS: That's correct.
19 MEMBER WHITE: That's great.
20 Thank you.
21 MR. ROGERS: On both the north and
22 south side.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 125 1 MEMBER HART: I think that what
2 we've been shown is very exciting and I look
3 forward to more refinement of the pavilion.
4 I think that almost anything you could do the
5 gardens would be an improvement.
6 I'm excited about the kinds of
7 landscaping that were described, the use of
8 marsh and flowers in an area that is right now
9 not real exciting. I'm not so troubled by the
10 insertion of berms between the points of entry
11 into the park.
12 I like the fact there will be this
13 topographic difference introduced into the
14 Mall where it is basically a very flat
15 landscape as it is now. I think your building
16 on the SOM plan in a way that will be very
17 nice. Thank you.
18 MEMBER WRIGHT: Quick question.
19 Can you take us to, I guess, it's the west
20 elevation of the building? The reason I ask
21 I think it's beautiful. I shouldn't say this
22 but I will. It reminds me of the ICA in
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 126 1 Boston and one of the problems with the ICA is
2 the back of it.
3 It turns its back on the city and
4 it's beautiful on the harbor. I guess I was
5 wrong, the eastern. I'm directionally
6 challenged. The eastern facade, the one
7 facing the Washington Monument. That one,
8 what would be the back of this building.
9 MR. ROGERS: I don't think the
10 building has a back.
11 MEMBER WRIGHT: Okay. Then I need
12 to look at it more carefully. I mean, it sort
13 of feels like a back, doesn't it?
14 MR. ROGERS: The building is
15 really a threshold.
16 MEMBER WRIGHT: It's an open air.
17 MR. ROGERS: Right now it's very
18 much --
19 MEMBER WRIGHT: Theater sort of
20 thing.
21 MR. ROGERS: It's hardly even
22 called a building because it's still a bit of
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 127 1 an idea at this stage but it's that place that
2 is both containment and threshold.
3 MEMBER WRIGHT: So there's no wall
4 here at all?
5 MR. ROGERS: There's an enclosure,
6 glass enclosure, of the restaurant and cafe.
7 MEMBER WRIGHT: Okay.
8 MR. ROGERS: And then it actually
9 comes down like lattice work and trellis work.
10 MEMBER WRIGHT: Right.
11 MR. ROGERS: We imagine that this
12 is very transparent and porous and this is
13 obviously conditioned and enclosed space.
14 MEMBER WRIGHT: So it's not
15 turning its back on anything. That's great.
16 MR. ROGERS: You should be able to
17 sit here and have a beautiful view of the
18 Washington Monument with a Cabernet or
19 Chardonnay.
20 MEMBER WRIGHT: And we'll know the
21 difference standing there. Where is the --
22 where are your mechanical systems, north side
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 128 1 or where are you going to hide all these
2 things?
3 MR. ROGERS: We do. Look at this
4 plan.
5 MEMBER WRIGHT: Okay. That's what
6 I thought.
7 MR. ROGERS: We've got the
8 stairway, the service elements, service
9 elevators, small accessible bathrooms specific
10 to the restaurant. The large bathrooms are
11 downstairs through the public entryway and
12 elevator. This is also the service core that
13 goes down to the lower level which has the
14 public bathrooms here.
15 This is all the kitchen service,
16 Park Service area in the back. We are looking
17 that we would have potential vehicular access
18 actually pass through here for the Zamboni.
19 MEMBER WRIGHT: Oh, the Zamboni.
20 Of course. Okay. Thank you. I think it's
21 wonderful. I was telling John that when I was
22 in college at GW we used to go down there all
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 129 1 the time but nobody knew it was called
2 Constitution Gardens. Believe it or not, this
3 was the '80s and even then it was long in the
4 tooth.
5 I hope you're thinking really hard
6 about the surfaces because I remember even
7 then when it must have been only seven or
8 eight years old sprawling and it was falling
9 apart from the beginning. I can't remember
10 what the surfaces are but I'm assuming you're
11 going to do something different.
12 MR. GREENSPAN: Right. I mean, it
13 was a lot of asphalt and a lot of chip seal
14 and then holes in those for trees and things
15 like that. All of this the materials, the
16 methods, and the integrated design that we're
17 looking at are both about making a system that
18 works today but something that will be
19 maintainable and long lasting.
20 MR. ROGERS: And to that vein we
21 are just beginning to test some material
22 ideas. One of the things we've really talked
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 130 1 about a lot is, in fact, if not the direct
2 reuse of the stone that is in the terraces
3 now, a very similar kind of stone that makes
4 this base level so that we keep the recall of
5 that threshold series of terraces that are
6 there from the SOM plan.
7 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Terrific. Other
8 questions or comments? Hearing none, thank
9 you very much.
10 That concludes -- sorry. Sylvan.
11 MS. WEISS: Thank you very much.
12 I'm Marion Weiss from Weiss/Manfredi. This is
13 Hallie Boyce from OLIN. We're very thrilled
14 to be selected to design the Washington
15 Monument grounds at the Sylvan Theater and an
16 honor to present today.
17 What is very interesting is that
18 as we were learning about the history of the
19 Sylvan Theater we thought that it was
20 interesting to think that the Mall is our
21 nation's central stage just to begin with.
22 When Alice Pike Barney in 1916
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 131 1 conceived of and in 1917 realized the Sylvan
2 Theater as the first venue for cultural
3 performing events on the Mall, that was an
4 extraordinary change and a real gift.
5 The site as it stands, though,
6 today is something that we might not know is
7 really almost at the heart of the criss-cross
8 of the two axes of the Mall and then the White
9 House and the Jefferson. That proficious
10 location has taken a beating just as many
11 others have.
12 The possibility of looking at this
13 site with such care and focus is one that
14 really allows us to see that where the
15 question mark is it's a strange phenomena
16 where the audience is on the mound and the
17 performers are across the pathway on the other
18 side.
19 Similarly, they are looking
20 towards the buses now as well as the theater
21 so the audience turns its back to the monument
22 which we think is really something that seems
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 132 1 quite strange.
2 Those who are now arriving by
3 buses on Independence Avenue have a flurry of
4 pathways that are still unclear about the
5 invitation to arrive at the Mall or the
6 theater.
7 So for us there were fundamental
8 things that caught our mind. One was that we
9 wanted to return the theater now to this site
10 so that the amphitheater and the audience
11 would face the monument.
12 People when they are looking at
13 performances could also see the monument. We
14 might also recognize its connection to the
15 monument grounds to the south with the Tidal
16 Basin and see that there is not an edge but a
17 center.
18 So the first idea was to include
19 the Washington Monument in all the scales of
20 performance. By lifting the landscape what we
21 were able to do is to create a theater for
22 about 1,000 and then offer another benefit
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 133 1 which was to take this new topography and
2 capture some of the Park Services' offices and
3 Park Ranger station. But, more importantly,
4 conceal the buses because that's the
5 fundamental view that people have from the
6 monument.
7 The other thing, though, that
8 caught our mind was that the Sylvan Theater
9 had a name but no identity of Sylvan within
10 the site. Shakespeare's idea of the forest
11 really captured our imagination to offer both
12 shade and shelter and identity, and then
13 ultimately also think of the connection
14 simultaneously.
15 Our vision was really to think of
16 this as something that is an enhancement of
17 the landscape and land form and they are there
18 with shade, shelter and performance and
19 potentially future connections to the sun.
20 The setting there, with some
21 apologies to the lightness of the plan, shows
22 that there is a Sylvan pavilion that is the
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 134 1 hinge between 15th and Independence, two
2 plazas north and south, and an unfolding path
3 landscape that allows us to now look, for
4 instance, to our left which is the Sylvan
5 Theater.
6 We are looking across at all the
7 buses but if we have a performance, we can
8 imagine that the topography might actually
9 change the perspective to one of a hillside
10 but studiously pull the topography down and
11 pull the trees apart to open up and keep the
12 views clear towards the Jefferson Memorial and
13 offer gateways now with the Sylvan pavilion to
14 the left and the amphitheater, again, with
15 those views exposed.
16 The question is this is not just a
17 place for performance but is a place of
18 respite, a place to be day to day, a place
19 that should be accessible at all times, to
20 wheelchairs as well, and flexible so that if
21 one is imaging a place of performance for
22 about 10,000 leveraging all the sides of the
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 135 1 mound and the new amphitheater, that we can
2 also understand that this is reframing an
3 historic gateway.
4 Looking now as if we are coming
5 from the Metro, we see Monument Lodge which is
6 a real gift. To our left you can also see
7 there is no sense of front doors or gateways.
8 This is about offering several
9 gateways including this one here that says
10 that we're the Sylvan pavilion. It opens up
11 and keeps itself down as part of the landscape
12 and opens up views to the monument.
13 Similarly now at Independence
14 Avenue where the buses are all lined up that
15 there really should be a sense of arrival at
16 the Mall instead of this confusion. To the
17 left you can see where the Park Service
18 offices are. A high number of restrooms and
19 exhibition give you your bearings.
20 On the right the Sylvan Pavilion
21 which is really a complementary land form with
22 a green roof. The other side then is the
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 136 1 other face where the Sylvan Cafe opens out
2 onto the terrace and you can see that in many
3 ways this is as much a landscape as it is a
4 theater.
5 It's one, though, that the
6 intersection between what is architecture and
7 what is landscape is also connected through
8 sections so that small performances inside,
9 and even to the edge, can take on a new life
10 so that even the Sylvan identity that we see
11 dappled light through the trees could also
12 give configuration, shape, and identity what
13 the interior of this pavilion might be light.
14 If we look at these all together,
15 this really is a kind of fully connected and
16 rejuvenated landscape with new identities and
17 landscape layers that Hallie will describe.
18 MS. BOYCE: Like OLIN's design for
19 the composition of the base of the Washington
20 Monument that you see in the plan on the left,
21 we really began our design exercise with this
22 idea of creating land forms; sculpting the
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 137 1 land to make a place.
2 As well as tree planting, in
3 particular, to frame a new venue here, a green
4 respite on the Mall that would allow for the
5 critical visitor amenities that was needed at
6 its heart.
7 The planting reinforced the
8 sculpting of the land of the amphitheater
9 providing a shady respite. We worked to
10 maintain a lot of the existing trees that are
11 somewhat mature on the west side in order to
12 create a new setting for the Survey Lodge that
13 is right here and further embellish those
14 plantings.
15 While we sculpted the grounds, we
16 also kept the sculpting minimal in this area
17 to protect those trees, but to also tuck back
18 under the land form some of the necessary
19 parking that's required as part of the current
20 program which we'll be reviewing further with
21 the Trust and the National Park Service as we
22 begin the design phases.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 138 1 This was looked at in the larger
2 context of preserving the overall structure of
3 the Mall. The light green shows the very
4 ordered planting for the Mall; the elms, the
5 box, the LAs along the street.
6 The light pink, which I think is
7 very light at the moment -- let me see if I
8 can highlight this for you. The cherry trees
9 that we all know are around the Tidal Basin
10 along here. OLIN also proposed cherry trees
11 that would frame the Washington Monument site
12 as well.
13 It's this dark green planting, the
14 more random planting, like those referred to
15 by Adam at Constitution Gardens which really
16 lent this idea of the Sylvan Grove, a wilder
17 place on the Mall if you will.
18 Our proposal works to rework the
19 ground plane to use lawn minimally and to
20 propose conservation areas in the lighter ran,
21 much like that of Hyde Park in London. These
22 are meadow landscapes using native grasses
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 139 1 which infiltrate water better which attract
2 wildlife and create an easier time for the
3 National Park Service with regards to
4 maintenance. It minimizes maintenance
5 considerably.
6 At the same time we wanted to
7 propose tree planting that would not only
8 attract the wildlife but would also have
9 seasonable interest and proposing fall color
10 in particular around the monument and the
11 green amphitheater.
12 These are the variety of species
13 that one would find here. We think this gives
14 the Park Service additional opportunities to
15 educate the public, millions of children that
16 come here as well, about our environment and
17 the need to make homes for these features.
18 This is a view back to the Lincoln
19 Memorial. This place while it accommodates
20 all the structured events that Marion talked
21 about can also be used as a place just to take
22 in the view, to have a lunch, or meet with a
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 140 1 colleague, or simply play.
2 At the same time the design keeps
3 this place, that is so important at the heart
4 of the Mall, very open to allow for a range of
5 programs and a range of activities; the
6 celebrations, the demonstrations, as well as
7 the recreation that occurs here on a daily
8 basis.
9 We know that it needs to be a
10 resilient landscape and we are talking about
11 the surfacing. The project on the east end of
12 the Mall that's moving forward is very
13 exciting with this need to create even the
14 lawn spaces which can endure these flows of
15 people whether large or small.
16 The design allows for circulation
17 to occur even during an event from east to
18 west and maintains that path just to the south
19 of the mount at the Washington Monument.
20 We have considered the access, as
21 Marion stated, where buses will land on 15th
22 as well as Independence Avenue to the south,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 141 1 and how maintenance will occur on site and
2 we'll be talking further with the National
3 Park Service along those lines.
4 With regards to accessibility, the
5 majority of the amphitheater will be
6 accessible and our gesture of this pedestrian
7 bridge that connects over Independence Avenue,
8 the aspiration there is that would also be
9 completely ADA. We determined that we could
10 keep that 5 percent or less.
11 We talked about preserving,
12 conserving, and extending this landscape to
13 the west creating a new setting for the Survey
14 Lodge. This is what it looks like today.
15 Today there are rangers there who are very
16 helpful to the public so we would like to keep
17 that aspect.
18 But also this idea of creating
19 volunteer programs where the National Park
20 Service rangers become the experts and might
21 take teams of people around the site to help
22 take care of the site or help with some of the
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 142 1 programs there. We think that would really
2 help connect the Mall to the local community
3 in an engaging way.
4 This just shows some of those
5 ideas about the Survey Lodge immediate
6 environment on a smaller scale. Sort of a
7 working landscape, if you will. There was
8 really a need to invent anew here but to pick
9 up on the existing Washington Monument mound
10 and land form at the same time to enrich it
11 with several layers of planting and create an
12 exciting place for people to rest and refresh.
13 We wanted to also make larger
14 connections to the Tidal Basin and beyond. We
15 looked and understood that there is the
16 Memorial loop which is very interesting
17 interest because it connects currently both
18 the Constitution Garden site as well as our
19 site and the Tidal Basin so all within a five-
20 minute walk.
21 We also considered the various
22 users of this site, whether it be families,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 143 1 the large flows of school groups via those
2 buses on Independence Avenue. We know there
3 is quite a running community here in D.C.,
4 particularly around the Tidal Basin.
5 Trying to pick up on the D.C.
6 Bikeshare Program which is so successful and
7 growing. Allow for ease of connections to the
8 World War II and Vietnam Memorial. Then also
9 think of ease of access for those in their
10 senior years. As well as the advent of the
11 new segway, a new way to get around town.
12 We also thought about in the
13 southern portion the image on the left. In
14 the late 19th century this area was a working
15 landscape. There were plots and greenhouses
16 that allowed for the refurbishment of the Mall
17 and its gardens which I think is AJ Downing's
18 idea. We thought there might be a potential
19 in the future to bring that idea back in some
20 way.
21 More immediately, this idea of
22 making this a landscape of performance. Only
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 144 1 putting lawn where the high-traffic areas are
2 required and then planting the rest with mixed
3 meadow really making it both ease of
4 maintenance but also much more sustainable for
5 long-term use.
6 We did also in the competition
7 look at a phased approach and we'll be talking
8 further with the Trust and the National Park
9 Service about those ideas.
10 MS. WEISS: Finally, as Hallie
11 talked about, a high-performance landscape.
12 We could say that the performance should also
13 have been high.
14 To close, it's really taking that
15 historic idea that could take something as
16 delicate as this performance or as robust as
17 this one and think about what it might mean
18 here to host roughly the Sylvan stage today to
19 host a 1,000 people with this reoriented stage
20 with incredible vistas to take the scale of
21 the landscape so that 100, 1,000, or 10,000
22 could work in this place more intimately for
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 145 1 performances that could be indoors or indoors
2 and outdoors, or expandable venue when
3 something extraordinary is going on.
4 Of course, the most important
5 thing is that when you have a theater, you've
6 got to support it and you need to service it.
7 The idea is small performance or service in
8 this particular root, the monument plaza area,
9 and then larger performances with trucks and
10 the stage elevated just to the size of those
11 box trucks allows that to be serviced as well.
12 Most importantly, when you have a
13 stage in the center it needs to be flexible
14 and not too heavy of a structure so that it
15 has a matrix or literally a scaffold beginning
16 that could sustain, say, a trellis restaurant
17 during the day but you could see all these
18 diagrams on the right all the way up to being
19 removed and having all the rigging come in by
20 another performance artist so you can see on
21 the playbill on the right.
22 On the left you see small, medium
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 146 1 film and large, all being able to be
2 accommodated in this one setting that we hope
3 will, in fact, insight the new Sylvan magic
4 which we would imagine would induce new
5 horizons. Thank you.
6 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: That's very
7 exciting.
8 Questions or comments for Sylvan.
9 Mr. Hart.
10 MEMBER HART: I think you've shown
11 us a very exciting idea and I look forward to
12 further refinement of them. There is a
13 component that I do have some reservations
14 about and that is this pedestrian bridge.
15 I hesitate to get too warm on
16 something that divorces pedestrians from the
17 landscape itself by taking them over the road
18 for a long distance separating them from the
19 ground plane.
20 There are places where that makes
21 sense but I'm not sure this is it. As you go
22 farther, please think about what that is in
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 147 1 the landscape and in the streetscape that
2 we're putting together. Thank you.
3 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Ms. White.
4 MEMBER WHITE: I just wanted to
5 make a couple of comments and thank, first,
6 the Park Service and the Trust for the vision
7 and the leadership that you brought to this in
8 the design competition alone.
9 I was really struck by the power
10 of your partnership and really elevating the
11 thinking and what could be done. I really
12 complement the design teams for the grace and
13 the thoughtfulness that you've taken in your
14 approach.
15 It's very clear you have thought a
16 lot about sustainability and stewardship in
17 the way you've approached these spaces. I
18 just think it's breathtaking and I know there
19 are a lot of details that you'll be working
20 out and so forth but I really appreciate you
21 coming here this early on because it's really
22 an inspiring vision. I really wanted to
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 148 1 commend you all for that so thank you.
2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Any other
3 questions or comments?
4 Ms. Tregoning.
5 MEMBER TREGONING: I will just say
6 -- this is mostly to Caroline -- that this is
7 wonderful. We were delighted to be able to
8 participate in the selection. I think both
9 designs are very inspiring.
10 I think we look forward to seeing
11 them again. We have some ideas about how they
12 might change and some concerns but to say that
13 there are enormous improvements over the
14 current conditions is a vast understatement.
15 They really are both very
16 imaginative and beautiful spaces that would be
17 -- they would be jewels in the crown of any
18 city and we will be very lucky to realize them
19 here in Washington so thank you.
20 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Thank you very
21 much. Very exciting. We look forward to
22 having you back.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 149 1 MEMBER WRIGHT: One question.
2 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Yes.
3 MEMBER WRIGHT: I was going to
4 defer to Harriet because I was sure she was
5 going to ask about where the buses go. Where
6 do the buses go?
7 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Steve.
8 MR. LORENZETTI: I don't think we
9 got there yet to be honest. The Park Service
10 has not really weighed in on this plan yet.
11 We are working on a few details so we can
12 weigh in. We want to make sure we respect any
13 processes but buses are certainly something
14 we'll be looking at when we get an opportunity
15 to.
16 MEMBER WRIGHT: Where did you
17 imagine the buses?
18 MS. WEISS: The buses are still
19 there on Independence but they are now
20 screened by the new topography of the
21 amphitheater so in some ways we actually like
22 the reciprocity of the elevation still
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 150 1 allowing the buses to be there. Actually now
2 with the Monument plaza they have a gateway
3 now as opposed to this strange condition that
4 they have right now to arrive.
5 MS. CUNNINGHAM: I would also say
6 that Bob Vogle as assured me that he's finding
7 a location to stick the buses. I don't know
8 that they are part necessarily of the design.
9 Clearly I love that they disappear in the
10 Washington Monument grounds topography change,
11 but I honestly think that figuring out where
12 the buses go is a city/Park Service question.
13 MEMBER WRIGHT: Agreed. I mean,
14 but your designing with the idea that the
15 buses don't go away. Right?
16 MS. WEISS: I idea is there is
17 reciprocity between the high tourism at that
18 location and this landscape might work
19 together.
20 MEMBER WRIGHT: Okay. Thank you.
21 CHAIRMAN BRYANT: Thank you very
22 much. It's very exciting plans. We look
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 151 1 forward to having you back.
2 Noting that there is nothing else
3 to come before us, we are adjourned.
4 (Whereupon, at 3:24 p.m. the
5 meeting was adjourned.)
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C E R T I F I C A T E
This is to certify that the foregoing transcript
In the matter of: Commission Meeting
Before: NCPC
Date: 10-04-12
Place: Washington, DC was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.
------Court Reporter
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