ALL ART IS MADE FROM ANGER

Lawrence Weiner talks about structure, art, reality, movies and the making of his second artistic PORN movie.

FROM TIME TO TIME THE ART WORLD FLIRTS Germany, as well as art house and would support it and, if everything goes with explicit sexual images. Let’s take a mainstream post-production facilities smoothly, the film would probably have closer look at Switzerland and explore called Schwarz Film in Bern and Berlin), its premiere during the international art an interesting connection between the and the internationally-recognised artist fair ART 08 in Basel, Switzerland. So far Swiss Erotic art collector and porn film Lawrence Weiner, who once said: “All so good. Weiner isn’t unfamiliar with entrepreneur Edi A.Stöckli (who owns art is made from anger.” Weiner, one of genital escapades on film and shocked the collection in the Museum of Porn in the central figures of , the American artworld with an xxx-rated Art in Zürich, several Swiss porn cine- was born February 10, 1942, in the short film back in the 70s. Then, in mas and adult film productions compa- Bronx, New York. If you’re wondering 1976, the release of ’s nies like Magma Film and Tabu & Love in what conceptual art is, well, here’s a “Deep Throat” received a political back- short definition: “Conceptual Art is lash in the U.S. and actors and produc- based on the notion that the essence of ers were federally indicted for art is an idea, or concept, and may exist conspiracy in the distribution of ob- distinct from and in the absence of an scenity across state lines. In response object as its representation.” During the to the conservative political climate and summer of 2007 at the Locarno Film the infringement of civil rights, Lawrence Festival in Switzerland, Stöckli received Weiner created his own movie, “A Bit of a call from New York: Lawrence wanted Matter and a Little Bit More”. The to shoot a pornographic art film again male/female, subject/object investiga- and the Swiss Institute in New York tion in this movie has no titillating intro-

words: patrick bühler • photos: noritoshi hirakawa

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This production articulates the duction at all; the appetite is not whet- ticulates the sheer banality of ted beforehand. Hardcore, the open- sex. The artist layers the ac- sheer BANALITY of sex. ing shot, shows the crotch areas of a tion with spoken words bor- male and female body engaged in rowed from his children’s The artist layers the action with coitus. Because it was made by a books and scientific/philo- well-known artist, this skin flick was sophical texts. The elusive received as art and was protected by textual sequence thrusts the spoken words. the cultural establishment against the carnal footage forward. It censors of that time. After this now may seem a little bit odd to mention it, scene and puts them into a scenario legendary 1976 arty skin flick, Weiner but nowadays in Western society we where they have to screw each other. has now shot his second porn short have a flood of fleshly images on DVD. This could be refreshing, but in this film, one that is repeatedly counting on Thirty years on from Weiner’s “A Bit of case it is rather disturbing because art world amateurs. In this non-narra- Matter...”, porn has embedded itself even though it is beautifully shot in tive project, titled “Water in Milk Exists” within everyday American culture. Can ProAm style the film has an artificial at- (2008), Weiner uses bodies as objects an artist like Weiner cause a reaction mosphere where people talk untypi- in a filmic landscape. The fuckfest is a today like that seen in the 70s, a time cally for porn films. Instead of a visual essay in which real people ex- where porn was still fighting for its “Yeah, fuck me harder, baby!”, the au- perience the object of human bodies. place in society? He sets the scene by dience listens to sophisticated dia- Rather than recreating the ritualised taking a bunch of New York amateur logue. The cast also behaves rather narratives of porn, this production ar- talents from the NYC (student?) art uninspiringly in a sexual sense. You

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started again throughout the world. There is a conservative reaction and I don’t believe that anybody has the right to tell somebody what to make and what not to make.

So the film can be read as a state- ment, in the 21st century, against an up coming new prudism? Yes, against a prudism and... uhm, it’s very nice of Edi A.Stoekli to be able to show it in a real porn theater, and he is putting it in his real programme.

Please tell us a little bit about the fi- nancing of this project. There’s nothing to tell. It was financed the way a movie is financed. Edi Stoeckli, the “It’s a movie. Movies are TOTALLY Swiss Institute and myself decided to make a movie, so we made a movie. FALSE. But they are the only reality we Coming back to the structure of the ever have to see. film, maybe some viewers will have a ” problem concentrating on the spoken words because the pornographic im- don’t necessarily get aroused when disturbing experience? ages are quite strong. watching this film. This this isn’t jerk-off Not in a pornographic theater (laughs). Perhaps the image is speaking about the porn, guys and girls, it’s art and Weiner same thing. Let’s not make a hierarchy is an artist and not a new raunchy wall- You take the explicit nature of the film between images and the verbal. Let’s say to-wall director, so he has something to point to a certain reality? that a film is information in front of people. else to tell his audience – something I’m not pointing a finger, I’m placing real- There it is. And they make use of what more than a message to make them ity on a screen. And people themselves ever it is they can find to make use of. horny. We caught up with the artist after can place themselves within re- the European premiere in Basel. ality they’re comfortable with... What is the philosophy of the film? They are telling you it’s about structure. Tell us a little bit about your film... what So this means all the people having It’s explicit. The meaning is explicit. is it about? hardcore sex are free, improvising There’s no hidden meaning and the ac- It’s about multiple realities... and it’s about their acts, or did you... tion is explicit. There’s no cheesing, no the advent of chaos. We come to the I was directing. I’m afraid it was a di- hidden meaning and there’s no hiding point where there are simultaneous real- rected movie. behind curtains. ities that we have always been dealing with, the question what is a concept of So you told them to speak some dia- So you’d say it’s reality in its purest reality. But perhaps all realities are at the logue and also told them what kind of form? same moment, at the same time, in the position they have to take in the sex- Of course it’s a film, so it’s not reality, it’s same place... and I brought together a ual acts? an attempt to portrait reality, as all art is an great cast of people and we tried to Yes. It’s a movie. Movies are totally false. attempt to portray material fact and real- make a landscape that was involved with But they are the only reality we ever have ity, but it requires artifice to make the re- multiple realities. That’s what it’s about. to see. ality.

...and the question, of course, is why You shot another sexually-explicit film Are there plans for further screenings does the film have an explicit nature... in the past. of the movie? I think we all share a concept of reality. In 1976. Yes, there will be, probably, at the Centre There’s a reality and there’s also this Pompidou in Paris and in other places as problem people have of putting aside I think the film was a statement well, and at festivals and the DVD is for and making it into something that it’s not. against... sale just like every other porn DVD... They invent a narrative and in fact peo- Against censorship. Yes. At that time they (grins) ple are fucking. were incarcerating people, putting them in jail. And this was a statement against For more information contact the Swiss Which is perhaps, for some people, a censorship. And now censorship has Institute in NYC: www.swissinstitute.net

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