Tolls Ruling Could Cost Va. up to $2B If Upheld | Hamptonroads.Com | Pilotonline.Com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

82° forecast THE VIRGINIAN-PILOT SEARCH THE SITE LOG IN EPILOT SUBSCRIPTIONS ADVERTISING PILOT STORE MORE SIGN UP

MARKETPLACE CLASSIFIEDS DEALS SEARCH LOCAL JOBS AUTOS HOMES SHOPPING COUPONS RENTALS LEGALS

NEWS OPINION BUSINESS MILITARY SPORTS WEATHER TRAFFIC OBITS HAMPTONROADS.COM ENTERTAINMENT LIFE MORE

HOME » NEWS » TRAFFIC - TRANSPORTATION Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld

Posted to: Tolls Traffic - Transportation Virginia Login or register to post comments

By Julian Walker Sean The Virginian-Pilot Connaughton, © June 18, 2013 Virginia's transportation RICHMOND secretary Virginia Transportation Secretary Sean Connaughton painted a bleak financial picture for the state if a May court decision striking down planned tolls for the Midtown and Downtown TRAFFIC CAMERAS tunnels is upheld, saying it could cost at least $700 Live views of highways, tunnels million and potentially jeopardize other toll projects. and bridges around Hampton Roads Testifying before state legislators Monday, Connaughton estimated that Virginia would be out $706 million in damages and costs incurred if it RELATED terminated the $2.1 billion contract with Elizabeth Bay Bridge-Tunnel moves toward higher toll, River Crossings to upgrade and operate the expansion - May. 31, 2013 tunnels. Live chat | Portsmouth Mayor Kenneth Wright on tolls - May. 23, 2013 And the liability could be much higher if Virginia Portsmouth judge: State trying to spin tolls and its private partners move forward on the Daily Deal | | Promote your business decision - May. 22, 2013 project but aren't able to collect tolls. Tunnel ruling taking its toll on transportation projects? - May. 21, 2013 In that scenario, Connaughton said, Elizabeth Tolls loom large over road projects like third River Crossings could pursue annual payments of TOOLBOX crossing - May. 17, 2013 $169 million for 57 years to recover lost revenue, Print Financial fallout from ruling on tolls is unclear - an amount exceeding $9.6 billion. But it's unlikely May. 16, 2013 Virginia would be on the hook for that much, he Email Free routes around tunnels are highways to said, citing a worst-case figure closer to $2 billion if nowhere - May. 4, 2013 the state didn't terminate the deal. Virginia could be on hook for $1B Midtown Tunnel debt - May. 3, 2013 Connaughton hopes to avoid such outcomes, SAVE & SHARE telling the House Appropriations Committee the Delicious tunnel toll deal that has caused local consternation is in line with Virginia legal precedent. Digg

Last month, Portsmouth Circuit Judge James A. Reddit Cales Jr. ruled that the General Assembly exceeded its authority by giving the state highway Facebook department broad power to set toll rates. Twitter Connaughton criticized that conclusion Monday. Google "This is something that is not consistent with almost 240 years of building toll facilities in the Yahoo Commonwealth of Virginia," he said. http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 1 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

Terms of the 58-year tunnel deal call for renovating the existing tunnels, building a second Midtown Tunnel tube and extending the Martin Luther King Jr. Freeway in Portsmouth to Interstate 264. The complex financial structure of the project involves state and federal money as well as private investment attracted with the carrot of toll revenue.

Morning and afternoon peak-hour tolls on the tunnels had been slated to start at $1.84 for cars with E-ZPass transponders as of Feb. 1.

The toll start date is in limbo, however, after last month's ruling that the public-private tunnel project and its tolls are unconstitutional. The presiding judge also declined to leave the tolls in effect while the state appeals to the Virginia Supreme Court.

Connaughton said a hearing in that court could come as early as September with a decision anticipated Find. Do. Tag. Share. later this year or early next year. Even if the state loses its appeal, he said, the General Assembly could "potentially rectify this legislatively" next winter. what where FIND The state is evaluating multiple scenarios in the event the project is dealt another blow by the courts.

If Cales' decision stands, Connaughton said, it could call into question the legality of $3.4 billion worth Popular Searches of other public-private road projects around the state. The tunnel contract permits tolls to rise by at least 3.5 percent each year after 2016. It also authorizes Partners the state's private partners to earn an annualized 13.5 percent rate of return on investment. Both provisions are sore points to locals who oppose tolls. News from around Virginia A busload of them traveled from South Hampton Roads to attend the House of Delegates' Appropriations Committee meeting where tolls were on the agenda. They packed the ninth-floor hearing room at the Capitol, an array of everyday citizens and local elected leaders easily identified by the rectangular "No Tolls" stickers on their clothes. They maintain that the Mortgage Personnel deal would foist about $1,000 in annual fees on commuters, many of them with limited means. Hampton Roads Area, VA TowneBank Mortgage Del. Johnny Joannou gave voice to those frustrations Monday. His questions about the real-world impact of the tolls drew applause from audience members. FT Leasing & Marketing Specialist Virginia Beach, VA Confidential "You're talking about a lot of money from a lot of citizens. We're not just talking about money the state LEASING CONSULTANT is putting out," he said, complaining about toll costs coupled with the lack of new capacity on the Chesapeake, Virginia Kotarides Downtown Tunnel. More jobs Citing a still-fragile economy, Joannou criticized a deal he said would affect the lives of "a lot of people that are struggling out there to make a living." Julian Walker, 804-697-1564, [email protected]

COMMENTS ADVISORY: Users are solely responsible for opinions they post here; comments do not reflect the views of The Virginian-Pilot or its websites. Users must follow agreed-upon rules: Be civil, be clean, be on topic; don't attack private individuals, other users or classes of people. Read the full rules here. - Comments are automatically checked for inappropriate language, but readers might find some comments offensive or inaccurate. If you believe a comment violates our rules, click the report violation link below it. [-] Hide Comments

"CHICKEN LITTLE" SCENARIO Submitted by Mr. Wizard on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 3:44 pm. Judge Cales called it.

HOW ABOUT "THIS" IDEA? Submitted by Art Director on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 6:36 pm.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 2 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

We, the people, tell ERC & Skanska to stuff it, and let THEM sue the commonwealth to get any more money out of us. Virginia courts could drag it out for even more years than "they" planned to toll US - Unconstitutionally, I might add. Let the thieves have their day in court and cry for their ill- gotten gains.

TIME TO DO YOUR REAL JOB, BOB Submitted by CookbookLady on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:21 am. You said it! How can they "lose" money they never had? That's like Canada counting every last dollar they "could" get from routing leaky pipelines all over the US, then saying that not having the pipeline "costs" them money. They're lucky to be making the big money that they do now -- "making" profits, not "losing" them. Maybe they're not making every last greedy dime that they could, but by that standard we're all losing millions of dollars that we "could have had" if more favorable circumstances fell on us.

Gov. no-jobs-Bob already has the entire tax revenue to spend. He had no ideas on how to fund transportation other than tolls, and he hasn't done anything to improve tax revenue by stimulating the economy.

DEL. JOHNNY JOANNOU - THE "FIXER" Submitted by poco on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 9:04 am. Remember when this slime got caught "fixing" speeding tickets gotten by his friends and family? He's the PEOPLE'S MAN. Yeah, right. Scumbag politician is what he really is.

JUDGE CALES Submitted by Nanas6 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 9:07 am. It was nice to see that Judge Cales has some of his father's blood in him and made a just and fair decision for the people.

I hope his son the lawyer representing Portsmouth in cases will ultimately find the same good genes, and stop hurting decent people in his hometown with his actions. I'm of the opinion that the son of a Judge should not be allowed to represent the city in which his father is a judge. This needs to be looked into carefully and wise decisions made. He cost a firefighter and his family a great deal, when he followed instruction of the EX City Mgr. and the Ex- City Attorney in his actions when the fireman never did anything wrong, was acquitted and his record expunged, yet Cales fought to keep him from being reinstated.

THE TAXPAYER WILL GET SCREWED ANYWAY!!!!!!! Submitted by Johnnyangel on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 1:57 pm. "Even if the state loses its appeal, he said, the General Assembly could "potentially rectify this legislatively" next winter." Do you know what this means? Well I'll give you my opinion...It means that regardless what happens with the Court's decision, the Politicians will change the laws to take our money. THE TAXPAYER WILL GET SCREWED ANYWAY!!!!!!!

THESE COSTS AND PENALTIES Submitted by Esau on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 3:48 pm.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 3 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

These costs and penalties AGAIN show what a horrendous deal this was in the first place. But it is the responsibility of the State to pay for roads, bridges and tunnels, which the state has abdicated now for decades. No surprise it's going to cost millions, as the toll payers were going to foot that bill. Good roads are in the common interest statewide, and all should pay for them. After all, we will paying for the I-81 widening in the western part of the state.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE T-WORD Submitted by Andre_Gomes on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 3:13 pm. If you make the T-word (as in tax) unspeakable for ideological reasons, just call it a user fee and involve a private company--bingo, it must be the solution. The governor removed a gasoline tax just to institute a gasoline vendor's tax. Roads and bridges have always been a public concern as in "public road" and "public right of way." The increased balkanization of Hampton Roads is not the kind of regionalism we need. The future support needed from all parts of Tidewater for future joint ventures will not come about if we have economic and residency islands. This is just such bad immediate gratification policy to institute tolls this way. Portsmouth cries foul and now Tollbooth Bob's people are blaming the victims!

SEEMS LIKE A BARGAIN Submitted by bfoster35 on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 3:55 pm. "In that scenario, Connaughton said Elizabeth River Crossings could pursue annual payments of $169 million for 57 years to recover lost revenues, an amount exceeding $9.6 billion." Seems like a bargain when compared to the 22 billion ERC would rather collect in tolls from local commuters. At least it would be spread out to the entire state instead of locals only.

HORRIBLE DEAL Submitted by ncpope on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 3:58 pm. This deal was made without any regard for the people of this part of the state and virtually gives our resources away without any compensation to the people who own them, us. Last time I checked this was a commonwealth. That means that the people of the state own the state's resources not the governor or the legislature. Therefore you cannot just sell the rights to them to a profit making entity. Even if you could sell common property to a profit-making entity.. you shouldn't.

HUH? Submitted by bfoster35 on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 3:59 pm. "This is something that is not consistent with almost 240 years of building toll facilities in the Commonwealth of Virginia," Connaughton said of the ruling Monday. What road was Va. tolling 240 years ago?

I THINK IT WAS... Submitted by Art Director on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 6:38 pm. The Dismal Swamp deer path. The cost was 2 tobacco leaves and a clay pipe.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 4 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

BUT WAS IT A PPP Submitted by bfoster35 on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 6:42 pm. But was that a PPP? If so, who made the 13.5%? BTW that wasn't tobacco.

LOOKS LIKE TOLLS STARTED 241 YEARS AGO Submitted by PatW on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 6:59 pm. From page 9 of "A History of Roads in Virginia" http://www.virginiadot.org/about/resources/historyofrds.pdf In 1772, the Virginia legislature cleared the way for what probably was the first toll road in America, when it authorized Augusta County to build a highway over the mountain between Jenning’s Gap and Warm Springs and to establish a toll gate. The road, as outlined by the legislature, was to be financed with 300 pounds advanced by the colony and 900 pounds raised by a lottery. Revenue collected from travelers was to be spent for the upkeep of the road and “towards building... housing for the reception of the poor sick resorting to the said springs.

I STAND CORRECTED Submitted by bfoster35 on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 7:11 pm. Was that first toll road based on the PPP law enacted in 1995 or was there another financing method prior to that? Did they pay back the 900 pounds or did they give the road builder 9000 pounds?

THE NEW NORM Submitted by Sullytown on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 4:04 pm. socialize the losses and privatize the profits.

WHY DOESN'T THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION Submitted by oldsarge3111 on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 4:06 pm. kick in the lions share, A bridge would be much cheaper to build but could cause problems for the Navy. So if the Navy wants/needs tunnels who shouldn't the navy pay for them, or at least the difference in the cost of a tunnel over the cost of a bridge?

YOU'RE REALLY GOING TO CALL Submitted by Sullytown on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 5:16 pm. You're really going to call out the Navy on this one? Without them this area can not survive.

Everyone who lives and does business in the Hampton Roads area directly benefits from the military presence.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 5 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

SO MR. ANTI-OBAMA IS NOW Submitted by louise53 on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 8:42 pm. So Mr. Anti-Obama is now looking for a federal handout from the current adminstration? Too funny!

IT'S INEVITABLE Submitted by you kidding me on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 4:19 pm. The midtown tunnel will have a toll.

AND THE MIDTOWN TUNNEL Submitted by Brinker on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 4:30 pm. and the Midtown Tunnel SHOULD have a toll.

YES IT SHOULD HAVE A TOLL Submitted by AA164 on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 4:46 pm. BUT the tolls should be levied and collected by government and not a private corporation; and any increase in tolls should be made by an elected body of our representatives, someone accountable to the populace. I am from NYC originally and know all about tolls and understand they are a fact of life for water crossing --- but the idea that this deal guarantees a sweetheart rate of return --- and guarantees the ability of a private corporation arbitrarily raise tolls by 3.5% every year for 50 years -- irrespective of costs or inflation or any other financial consideration is ludicrous. The morons who negotiated this should be tarred and feathered. Anyone out there have any doubt that private corp raises tolls every year it can?

TWO GUYS COLLECTING A TOLL...... Submitted by worldview23451 on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 5:05 pm. Guy on the right....Warren Buffett...private buissman accountable to stock holders..... guy on the left..Senator Chuck Shumer...politician accountable to who knows what special interest. which would be better....?

BETTER? Submitted by Art Director on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 6:41 pm. How 'bout Chuck and Warren tied to an anchor at the bottom of the Chesapeake Bay? As the little Wendy's redhead says, "Now, THAT'S better!".

HOW ABOUT RAISING THE GAS TAX A PENNY Submitted by Chris33 on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 6:42 pm. How about raising the gas tax a penny and getting rid of all the tolls?

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 6 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

14 or 3

IN MY OPINION ONLY... Submitted by Art Director on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 7:55 pm. I honestly believe that all of our taxes are high enough. The reason you're not getting your already-taxed money's worth is due to fraud, kickbacks, outrageous waste, and politics in VDOT and other state and federal agencies. Raising any particular tax for any (even statedly good) reason will only encourage more of the same listed above. That why I dispute your reasonable sounding argument.

RAISE THE GAS TAX A PENNY Submitted by Chris33 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 1:18 am. Tolls are a way to tax the middle class, so Republicans can lower income taxes for the rich.

REALLY? Submitted by HappySkeptic on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 7:03 am. That's because the evil rich fly around in Jetson's like air cars that are invisible so the middle class won't see them and be jealous. The evil rich will be able to bypass all of the tolls and the middle class will have to pay!!!

AND THE DOWNTOWN TUNNEL Submitted by bfoster35 on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 6:48 pm. SHOULD NOT

AND SO ... Submitted by jpjones on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 4:47 pm. after we go through this whole rancorous exercise and we end up paying off millions to ERC for a broken contract, we're STILL going to have a toll on the tunnel. I wonder how much that one will be? I guess SOMEBODY will be happy they "won." It looks like The Law of Unintended Consequences just may end up being applicable here.

THE PROBLEM JP Submitted by AA164 on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 4:53 pm. Is the public was not well-represented at all in this "rancourous exercise". This bone-headed deal was conceived without any input from the people. It was hatched and brokered without any input from those who will pay the lion's share of the costs -- or their elected representatives. And to make matters worse we were to accept this bad deal that will only get worse and more expensive as we go down the road (or tunnel) and have ZERO chance at fighting unreasonable increases in the future. So I ask you, what's not to like about this deal, huh?

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 7 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

SOUNDS JUST LIKE LIGHT RAIL Submitted by worldview23451 on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 5:02 pm. Funny how all of these projects do have a similar theme.

THIS BOONDOGLE ALONE WILL Submitted by zatoony on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 4:47 pm. This boondogle alone will sink any further political aspirations McDonnell ever had. His own hometown cant stand him because of this crazy deal. He probably has a cushy job lined up with ERC anyway. The costs to get out of the deal are still cheaper than going through with it. And Gov Bob should have to pay for it out of his own pocket anyway, since he made the illegal deal by himself.

FUNNY HOW THEY DEFLECT RESPONSIBLITY... Submitted by cFrederick on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 4:49 pm. It's funny how the Secretary deflects responsibility for this debacle. I'm happy, I suppose, that the Secretary did not come out and simply blame citizens for this when it was the Secretary, his staff and the governor who established the terms of the deal, believing full well that they had the power to delegate tolling authority to a non-governmental entity (which they should have also known full well that they didn't). Where was AG Cuccinelli when all this was going on?

AG CUCCINELLI Submitted by bfoster35 on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 4:57 pm. AG Cuccinelli was too busy planning to bump Lieutenant Governor Bill Bolling from the nomination for gov and shmoosing with the good folks at Star Scientific.

THE JOKE IS ON THE TAX PAYER & YOU'LL PAY SOON OR Submitted by machineguns on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 5:00 pm. later, no doubt about it. Too bad you can't demand a 13+% return on your bank deposits. Think of the countless man hours wasted discussing this on the dime of the taxpayer no less. 3.5 increase yearly...who got a pocket share of that one off the books? Someone do math on that and see what it will be in 50 years at that rate...it sure won't be 1.84. Shame to all those that let the local working men and women take one up the kazoo. This should have been a burden shared by all throughout the state equally.

$10.28 Submitted by BillyBob999999 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 2:00 pm. $10.28

OTHER PUBLIC PRIVATE TOLL PROJECTS AT RISK....UNTOLD STORY Submitted by worldview23451 on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 5:11 pm.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 8 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

"Also concerning Connaughton is the impact of another decision that could call into question the legality of $3.4 billion worth of other public-private road projects around the state." Here we have some allready existing projects like the Chesapeake Expressway...while administered by the city of Chesapeake was never put through the approval process of the General Assembly...so that with all other PPP projects are up for grabs.

THERE IS NO PRIVATE Submitted by bfoster35 on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 5:38 pm. There is no private in the Chesapeake Expressway. There is no private company making 3.5% increases per year and No private company taking in a 13.5% profit.

AND EASY TO RUN UP EXPENSES Submitted by ethan2 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 2:42 am. And easy to run up expenses so there are other private winners outside of the 13.5% profits.

YEA..YA GOT A CITY COUNCIL COLLECTING MORE THAN 13.5% PROFIT Submitted by worldview23451 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 2:43 am. Yes you have a small town city council doing whatever they choose with "their" tools and all the local fraud that goes along with that and no oversight until one day you have the Governor step in with the State Police and do an investigation. We know how hard it is to "dislodge" local politicians from local city councils and such.... And the Chesapeake expressway is slated for more than 13.5% profits and there is no limit to what they put the tolls at ..look at the $6 tolls there now...

RIGHT NEXT TO Submitted by bfoster35 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:10 am. Yea, right next to the FREE alternative that is about three minutes longer. Unlike the tunnel theft.

NO TOLLS Submitted by BillyBob999999 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 2:15 pm. We go to the Kitty Hawk twice a year and have yet to use the expressway.

I WAS RUNNING LATE AND TOOK Submitted by ethan2 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 3:37 pm. I was running late and took that thing. EZ Pass blink yellow as it drained it. $6 one way? Never again.

THE CHESAPEAKE EXPRESSWAY http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 9 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

Submitted by The Kingfish on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 6:04 pm. Is not a P3 project. There were no direct state or federal dollars involved in the project. The City of Chesapeake owns, operates, and maintains the expressway with Chesapeake citizens taxes & tolls. It was funded from the sale of bonds and an interest bearing loan from the state highway fund that is being paid back. The toll collection point is south of Hillcrest Pkwy and south of the heavily populated area, the old route is still available for motorists that wish to avoid tolls, regular users receive a hefty discount for frequent users with a transponder aquired through the Chesapeake Expressway office.

CHESAPEAKE EXPRESSWAY IS A PPP PROJECT RATE OF RETURN 18.5% Submitted by worldview23451 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 3:15 am. Cost to build $38 Million...Projected revenue to 2035 (bonds will be paid) $500 million collected tolls... "The financing is unique. The City is dedicating its share of the State recordation taxes distributed to localities to pay for approximately half of the annual debt service. The other half of the debt service will come from local general revenues and is being provided by the City of Chesapeake through a contract with the State. http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/chesapeake_expressway/pdf/2010- 10-Chesapeake_Expressway_Report.pdf

MIND BOGGLING Submitted by vb_techie on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 6:40 pm. Ignoring the questionable legality of this whole thing, this one sentence is simply unbelievable: "It also authorizes the state's private partners to earn an annualized 13.5 percent rate of return on investment." 13.5%? THIRTEEN POINT FIVE PERCENT?!?! 5 year CDs are under 2%. Mortgage rates are around 4%. Used cars 7-8%. Heck, there are even credit cards are under 10%. And nobody reviewing/approving this deal thought that maybe, just maybe, perhaps that's an obscenely high rate of return? How exactly do they make the case that the public benefits from this "public/private" deal in any way, shape or form? Is there something else in the agreement that I'm missing which might even the score, at least a little bit?

INTERESTING POINT...WHAT IS THE RATE OF RETURN OF THE CHES EXP? Submitted by worldview23451 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 2:49 am. What is the rate of return of the Chesapeake Expressway...or the Chesapeake Bay Bridge tunnel? I think both are up in that range but do not know off the top of my head. If "rate of return" is an issue what is the "standard" rate of return of a typical toll deal public or private. I think folks would be surprised that the rates of return on all these deals is pretty set and tolls are raised over the years to keep these rates of return. What is the "rate of return" for our electricity or water bills? We have guaranteed rates of return for those as well.

AND WHAT BOTHERS ME IS THAT ROAD BONDS DIDN'T SEEM TO BE Submitted by henry on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 12:08 pm. considered. Right now as you correctly point out returns for investors are quite low. If there is to be a profit on this project why not allow Virginians first to share in that profit by allowing Virginians to buy the road bonds at say a modest $3.5% return. I have no doubt that if Tax free state bonds http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 10 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

were used to finance this project and Virginians were given first crack at buying the bonds, they'd probably sell out. And in all of the negotiations I still don't understand from anyone's standpoint how this deal was a benefit to Virginians or more importantly the local traveling public.

TIME TO INVESTIGATE WHO APPROVED THIS FINE DEAL AND ... Submitted by ohmie on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 7:11 pm. take a good look at their bank account to see how much kick-back money they recieved. It's also time to make them PERSONALLY responsible for any and all damages. The obviously overstepped their athority by making the deal with the foreign owned ERC. This will set a precedent to deter other state officials from abusing and overstepping their athority. Virginia would be out $706 million in damages and costs incurred if it terminated the $2.1 billion contract with Elizabeth River Crossings to upgrade and operate the tunnels. Who ever illegally signed the $2.1 billion contract should be held responsible for the $706 Million. A large part of that 706 should be eaten by ERC for proceeding in a questionable contract to start off with.

INSTALLATION AND MAINTENANCE Submitted by AC1201 on Mon, 06/17/2013 at 7:59 pm. For what we will spend to build and maintain new tunnels at Downtown, Midtown, we could move what's left of the Navy Yard to Little Creek.

MCFOLLY Submitted by jettyhop on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 12:46 am. It's official now, this will be known as *Bob's Folly*. By far his biggest in a continued string of follies. Bob McDonnell, is there anything he touched that didn't get tainted? It has been one debacle after another, but the unconstitutionally foisted tolls sealed behind closed doors,was him at his absolute worse. Virginia needs a Ralph Northam, integrity is currently in very short supply in Richmond.

AGREE WITH EVERYTHING BUT Submitted by zatoony on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:04 am. Agree with everything but the Northampton comment. He isn't even in Richmond yet and screwed over his own constituency by encouraging W&M to absorb EVMS. He has a degree from there meaning he's looking out for his own interests over the people. There are so many reasons why the merger with ODU makes much more sense. Northampton will be a democratic McDonnell. Difference is we already have a glimpse of Northam's true colors before he even leaves Hampton roads.

FOR THE LOVE OF THE BEACH Submitted by b. on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 12:22 pm. For the love of the beach his last name is NORTHAM not NORTHAMPTON. If you're going to talk trash on someone at least have the decency to get their name right.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 11 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

ARE YOU READY! Submitted by sep1966 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 12:51 am. Time to bring on the state owned CASINOS! The money made can pay for these roads and other things...

CASINOS??? Submitted by Chris33 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 1:21 am. Casinos create horrible destruction of families by pushing people to gamble. Raise the gas tax, it will encourage energy conservation and will eliminate the need for tolls. Tolls are just a way for Republicans to make the middle class pay more, so the rich can pay less.

GAS TAXES Submitted by lifter on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 1:56 am. First you need to realize that your gas taxes go into the 'general fund'. to be used to fund any project the state'oops' the commonwealth desires. The gas tax should be kept on its own to be used for highways and such. we have one of the lowest gas taxes in the nation.

ENCOURAGE ENERGY CONSERVATION? Submitted by worldview23451 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 4:10 am. Old Math... so you raise gas tax by 1% ...lets say you are right and you have conservation of ..lets make it easy...conservevation of 1% you have 0 revenue..you still have a problem.

OLD MATH? BAD MATH! Submitted by satuja on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:55 am. Not sure where you took your math classes - Norfolk maybe? $100 in gas revenue, 1% tax, = $1 to the state. If we conserve 1% through efficiency then the next year we have: $99 in gas revenue, 1% tax = $.99 to the state. Where on earth did you get your math??

THE HARDEST PART ABOUT WORD PROBLEMS IS SETTING UP Submitted by TxMike77 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 9:43 am. the equations correctly, not solving them. The question was what net INCREASE do you get from raising tax rates & lowering consumption by conservation. Gas is taxed by the gallon.

100 gallons X 7.5 cents/gallon = $7.50 if you raise the tax rate by 1% & lower the consumption by 1% 99 gallons X 7.575 cents/gallon = $7.49925 = $7.50

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 12 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

YES, THAT IS THE HARD PART Submitted by satuja on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 10:30 am. But I think the original suggested comment "Raise the gas tax 1%" meant 1% of the purchase price of gas (Like sales tax) yes, I know gas isn't taxed that way, but I think thats a misconception that a lot of the public has and really the fundamental problem. Gas should be taxed on a percentage basis not a gallon basis, that would solve this entire revenue issue as it would keep the gas tax up to par with gas prices and inflation.

THAT IS WHAT YOU 'THINK' IT MEANT? Submitted by TxMike77 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 10:37 am. Why in the world would you think that? Then you compond it by criticizing his math based on your new assumptions. Takes gall, man.

WHY? Submitted by satuja on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 3:31 pm. I would think because thats exactly what he said "so you raise gas tax by 1%" Why on earth would you go through all the legislature to raise the gas tax fractions of a penny (using your math, 1/4 of 1 cent). Gall? Hardly, Common Sense? More likely.

LETS MAKE THIS SIMPLE Submitted by worldview23451 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 10:09 am. if you price raise $1 in revenue and cause $1 in conservation you have a net of 0.

PUSHING PEOPLE TO GAMBLE? Submitted by TxMike77 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 6:59 am. It always amazes me how little respect libbies have for their fellow man. I guess it is an occupational hazard. How else could they justify, to themselves, their consistent policy of the nanny-state?

LIB LOGIC Submitted by mustang.freddy on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:01 am. Casinos don't create bad behavior or poor decisions. People are responsible for their own actions. By your logic the Commonwealth pushes people to drive drunk and become alcoholics by operating ABC stores.

YEAH... Submitted by robertm99871 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:24 am.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 13 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

because we all know that rich people don't use the tunnel...they use their private submarines....the people that use the tunnel should pay for it... "pay as you go"

FUNNY,I SPENT A WHOLE WEEK Submitted by b. on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 12:26 pm. Funny,I spent a whole week in Vegas & never gambled once. To blame casinos is unfair. Instead you should blame, the men that cheat on their wives, drunks, drug dealers, & loose women on the destruction of families. That seems more fair.

18.5% RATE OF RETURN OF CHESAPEAKE EXPRESSWAY Submitted by worldview23451 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 3:17 am. And the profits that we pay as users go into City of Chesapeake General Fund (after bond payments). http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/chesapeake_expressway/pdf/2010- 10-Chesapeake_Expressway_Report.pdf

GOOD! Submitted by satuja on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:59 am. Better the profits go back into the General Fund which would support other projects around the city, schools, make-shift prison buildings. Either way, thats money collected mostly from out of state tourists going into the citizens of Chesapeakes general fund rather than a Foreign Country's pockets!

HEY...CHESAPEAKE IS A FOREIGN COUNTRY FOR MOST OF US.... Submitted by worldview23451 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 9:23 am. I live in Virginia Beach...far as I am concerned Chesapeake is a foreign country. After the jail project and animal shelter I am further convinced they operate in a "third world" state of finincial governance.....LOL

WHICH ENDS UP IN TIN FOIL Submitted by ethan2 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 3:42 pm. Which ends up in tin foil jail buildings and baller SPCA buildings :-)

JUST RUN THEM OUT OF TOWN Submitted by vickie123 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 4:36 am. All Hampton Roads Cities and the State just need to run Skanska and their ERC and ERT out of Virginia all together. Send them back to New York and Sweden with their little dog ToTo too. Take the loss and send them packing.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 14 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

GAS TAX IS THE ANSWER Submitted by abc15626 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 4:48 am. I agree with others who have stated a small gas tax is the best source of revenue for Virginia road construction and maintenance.

GAS TAX: A DECLINING SOURCE OF REVENUE Submitted by worldview23451 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 5:21 am. Another Issue:

Over the last several decades states have found that its central revenue source, the motor fuel tax cannot catch up to the increasing fuel efficiency of cars and trucks. But as fuel efficiency has increased, so has the number of miles driven, putting more stress on maintaining roads and bridges. According to the Federal Highway Administration (FHA), from 1980 to 2010, the number of miles driven per vehicle has grown and the average miles per gallon has grown from 11.3 to 16.8. So, people are driving father on less gas, which means less revenue for the states.

ALL THE MORE REASON.. Submitted by satuja on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 10:34 am. Gas tax should be a percentage of cost instead of cents per gallon. While vehicles have become more efficient, their efficiency hasn't out paced the increase in gas. If we've gone from 11.3 to 16.8 over the last 30 years, gas prices have gone from what $.80 to $3.80 in that same time period? If tax revenue were percentage based, there would be plenty of revenue to keep pace with the increased miles.

SPITE IS A BITTER PILL. Submitted by jpjones on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 6:33 am. It's not like ERC would take all that money home overseas. Remember that long list of local subcontractors connected to the project? Recall all those millions that would be injected into the local economy and all the jobs that would be created from construction to maintenance to toll collection and operation? Some folks seem more hell-bent on poking the governor and AG in the eye and praying for a company to fail, than realizing the overall benefits to the local economy. SCHADENFREUDE: scha·den·freu·de, enjoyment obtained from the troubles of others.

NOT QUITE... Submitted by satuja on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 10:37 am. All those local jobs you speak of, construction, maintenance, operation, will all still exist WITHOUT ERC if this were a totally state funded project. All of us talking against ERC and sending the foreign money home aren't against the local money. We're against sending the profits to a foreign country.

INJECTING MILLIONS AND SUCKING MILLIONS Submitted by volkss on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 12:06 pm. You just pointed out the only silver lining on this tolled riddled cloud, but I would like to rebutal that

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 15 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

those millions of dollars being injected into the economy is being sucked out of the citizens wallets. So your point is lost when you think about where a majority of the money is coming from. The strongest words I have heard and ring true everytime I say them: People are struggling to pay their mortgage and now the government wants us to pay a 13th mortgage a year. How in the world could our elected officials think that selling our already paid for roads to a private company was a good idea? Then they are only going to monitor them for a few years before letting them twist the screws until they get every single cent out of us. BAD!

INJECTING MILLIONS AND SUCKING MILLIONS Submitted by volkss on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 12:06 pm. You just pointed out the only silver lining on this tolled riddled cloud, but I would like to rebutal that those millions of dollars being injected into the economy is being sucked out of the citizens wallets. So your point is lost when you think about where a majority of the money is coming from. The strongest words I have heard and ring true everytime I say them: People are struggling to pay their mortgage and now the government wants us to pay a 13th mortgage a year. How in the world could our elected officials think that selling our already paid for roads to a private company was a good idea? Then they are only going to monitor them for a few years before letting them twist the screws until they get every single cent out of us. BAD!

PAYING $100 TO EARN BACK $5 Submitted by ethan2 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 3:54 pm. Paying $100 to earn back $5 isn't very wise.

HOW TO AVOID TUNNEL TOLLS Submitted by mydogcleo on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 6:45 am. HR has thrived because of its water, ports, and rivers. It is a God given resource that few cities enjoy and is responsible for many government and private jobs. Enjoy what you have or move to the desert. You must pay to play. I think user taxes are very fair and not at all unconstitutional.

YOU BREAK THE LAW YOU PAY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES Submitted by vbbum on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 7:02 am. If on Virginia had had a competent AG, he could have advised the governor to veto the bill as it was unconstitutional. I emphasize competent,

WE DON'T WANT OBAMACARE TRAFFIC FIXES Submitted by NO JONES on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 7:06 am. Norva will pay it.

OMINOUS SIGN? Submitted by Samoyed on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 7:08 am. I drive the Midtown Tunnel regularly. I noticed that the camera systems for the toll collection

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 16 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

structures are being installed pretty rapidly. Is this a portend of the news the decision will be overturned? Does it hint some sort of back room deal has been made? Actions speak louder then words. If it was me, I'd be keeping a million worth of electronics in the box ready to ship back until the court battle is over and I knew if I could use it.

THE QUESTION IS, CAN I BUY Submitted by ethan2 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 3:57 pm. The question is, can I buy one of the EZPass readers cheap once this is scrapped? The one I have now -- I don't have the software for it and the company wants $10,000 for code that gets me the IAG protocol :-( :-( So close.

DOMINION POWER RATE OF RETURN 12.5% Submitted by worldview23451 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 7:22 am. The state's largest electric utility rate of return is 12.5 percent, up from the 11.9 percent in 2011. In testimony the company said its actual rate of return was 11.84 percent during 2009-10. Virginia law requires that regulated electric utilities be given an opportunity to earn a fair rate of return — profit — on their rate base Companies also can recover reasonable operating expenses, and state law governs how the corporation commission determines a company's fair rate of return. So the tunnel profit deal is in line with everything else...

APPLES & ORANGES Submitted by wag23455 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:42 am. Utilities provide a NECESSARY resource right to my doorstep, along w/ everyone else's doorstep. Their product is VITAL. In return, we (populace) can expect the occasional rise in cost and accept a 10-12% rate of return, considering much of the profit goes back into infrastructure improvement. ERC on the other hand is not providing a necessary resource. They are picking up cigarette butts, slapping on some paint, changing light bulbs and tiles, and adding a new tunnel which WON'T reduce the liklihood of me having to PAY for the PRIVELAGE of getting stuck in traffic through their tunnel. I'll look for work on this side of the water before I give away my $$$ to a foreign company for the next 60 years!

THEN YOUR ARGUEMENT IS THE PROJECT IS NOT NEEDED AT ALL? Submitted by worldview23451 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:55 am. That is a much different topic when you refer to the actual need of this project rather than the financing structure of the deal.

THREATS Submitted by 101 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 7:29 am. don't threaten me with loses to justify your stupidities. If retaining my freedom from Elizabeth River and the like comes at this high cost, so be it. Then kick out every politician that was involved in this http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 17 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

fiasco. Tolls and the monies from them should come back to the commonwealth to maintain our roads. Back to the drawing board and this time get it right.

SHOULDN'T THE HEADLINE READ Submitted by zatoony on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 7:58 am. Shouldn't the headline read "Hampton roads citizens save 2 billion dollars" and avoid being victimized by crooked politicians and foreign con men?

WORST DEAL EVER MADE Submitted by dogpen on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 7:46 am. & I don't even care if it all blows up because it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!! I don't care if you threaten us w/the bill that's already been accrued, that's just to darn bad, you should've made a better deal. So either right the ship w/the $$'s available or let it sail. Remember, the ring of fire burns everyone & will only further isolate Tidewater. It will only keep people from relocating here & all cost to companies will be passed on to the consumer.

ROCKET SURGEONS? Submitted by mustang.freddy on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:02 am. Looks like the Commonwealth had their best and brightest working on the contract terms.

MUSTANG.FREDDY Submitted by Mr. Wizard on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:41 am. I always like to read your perceptions which are on point. I mean this with all due respect but isn't it the term 'rocket scientist' or 'brain surgeon'? I've never heard of a 'rocket surgeon'. You've scripted the same several times in the past two weeks, mustang. I guess it could be one who conducts operations on rockets. A conflation of old terms is now a new one on these threads. mustang.freddy, you are a true wordsmith visionary!

NICE DEAL Submitted by ws53790 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:06 am. you worked out for us Governor. Either we are given the choice of having our knee caps shattered (58 years of tolls) or the state be on the hook for 700 million (amputation of said leg). Nice little Mafia-like deal you conjured up for us. I just hope the voters remember the next time when they go to polls the wonderful joys you have brought the people of Tidewater.

SEE WHAT HAPPENS? Submitted by crazylaughinghyena on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:33 am.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 18 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

I guess all the lucky people who only pay $50 to $100 Personal Property Tax on their vehicles(s) instead of my family that pays $2200 a year got a free ride to use the roads. Now we are going to make the people who go to work everyday pay more. I guess I need to hide my money like the Landscapers do

YOU HAVE THE CHOICE TO BUY Submitted by ethan2 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 3:59 pm. You have the choice to buy an expensive vehicle or a low cost beater.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS! Submitted by TheDeacon on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:36 am. When power goes to ones HEAD!

NO TOLLS Submitted by mustang.freddy on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:49 am. Water crossings are a way of life here and in hundreds of other coastal cities and towns in the U.S. If these other cities and towns are able to construct and maintain modern infrastructure without tolls then we should certainly be able to do the same. I see no difference between tolling the midtown tunnel or tolling the lesner bridge. If we want safe, modern, adequate infrastructure we must pay for it. All of us. No tolls.

THE Submitted by thomasc59457 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:49 am. legislature should have just raised the darn gas tax and EVERYONE pays, these leaders complicate everything. Tolls are legal, paid them all over the world. So I don't see how this court ruling stands. It will be straighted out and we will be paying tolls, just maybe later than February, that I assure you.

TOLLS RULING Submitted by Protector on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 8:50 am. The contractors have been scrambling to finish work even after the first ruling came down that it was unconstitutional. Contractors should not be paid for any work after that date.

EACH CITY SIGNED OFF ON THIS DEAL LETS REMEMBER... Submitted by worldview23451 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 9:07 am. Including Portsmouth. Every detail and dollar. Each city was VERY involved in the process and schedule. Each city had a representive on board during the planning process for years. Each city Mayor was briefed on this deal in detail including Portsmouth. Makes you wonder.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 19 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

A THOUGHT Submitted by i just wanted t... on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 9:10 am. --a foreign comes in here gives a bunch of people that were appointed by other people that couldn't be bothered with their due diligence-a song and dance proposal that seemed to good to be true, --they invest $235 million in a project that will give 13.5% interest for the next 58 years with no risk of ever losing that investment?--I can't blame that company.--it was a good deal for them. --now we are supposed to let this go through, because it will cost too much to not let them do it? If a contract is not legal?--then throw it away!--Isn't that the law?--If the funding is unlawful?,--Isn't the whole contract void?

--If the contract is unlawful?---why are they continuing to do work on something they shouldn't be doing?--STOP THE WORK!

RESULTS OF HAVING YOUR MOUTH MOVE TOO FAST Submitted by mrfingr on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 9:12 am. Scty Connaughton, the reason Virginians will be out so much money is YOU jumped the gun. You (our govt) signed a contract with a company BEFORE even putting it before the people. Now you're trying to back-peddle because cancelling the contract, the govt will still owe the toll company $. Our govt was formed based on the people. NO govt (official) should make major decisions without first talking to the people. D.C. does it all the time and look where they are! You want a large amount of people, in an economy where most have not seen raises in years, to put up/out an additional $80/month (plus fees) to get to/from work - money most don't have to spare - and you signed contracts without talking to us. Looks like your hand got caught in the mousetrap.

BOTTOM LINE THE LEGLESLATURE WILL APPROVE THIS NEXT SESSION... Submitted by worldview23451 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 9:13 am. The Pilot should inform everyone the General Assembly will approve the necessary bill to fix the legal problem and protect the public private structure for these type projects. This is why most GA reps are silent on this and I am sure a bone or two will be tossed to the others to get the necessary votes. Of course that would eliminate all these stories on this topic.....LOL

FORGOT TO SAY..ASSURANCE HAS BEEN GIVEN TO BOND MARKET Submitted by worldview23451 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 9:19 am. Seems that "quiet" assurance has been given to the bond market folks( they back stop the financing of much of this) that public private legal loopholes will be fixed next session in the VA General Assembly to "clean up" this issue.

CONNAUGHTON OUGHT TO BE Submitted by iwonder on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 9:19 am. Connaughton ought to be fired and thrown out the door for structuring such a poison pill deal backed by taxpayer money.

WE VOTED "NO" Submitted by AC1201 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 9:21 am. http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 20 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

We voted NO for the tax increases. Warner and Kaine did zip to alleviate the bottlenecks here. McDonnell takes a hack at it and he's all the bad guy. D if you do, D if you don't. A nice Jordan-style high-rise from Crawford Street to Ballentine Blvd would do nicely. The feds mandate tunnels here, so the fed should pay the difference. No tolls elsewhere? Baloney! Last time I drove round-trip to NY it was over $30 dollars in tolls; that's w/ an EZPass discount and it has been a few years. Very few tolls in NC...NC charges 20 cents per gallon higher gas tax. There are NO free rides. So burn that traffic jam gas and swelter. And if you really are important, just skip the line and jam into the front.

I DON'T THINK ANYONE WOULD MIND PAYING A REASONABLE TOLL Submitted by ohmie on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 9:52 am. IF the planned project would actually make a difference instead of giving a foriegn organization loads of money for many years. This planned project does nothing to solve the problems. If money is spent wisely and the end product eases the traffic problems most people would be all for it. This project does NOT accomplish anything but throwing away hard earned money of the citizens. Connecting existing bottle-necks together does not ease congestion. Adding a new crossing in a different location would. Then you only toll the new crossing not the existing paid for crossings. This is just a money grab and needs to be investigated to see whose pockets are being padded with kick-backs.

YOU DO HAVE A POINT...LOOP AROUND NORFOLK/PORTSMOUTH Submitted by worldview23451 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 10:28 am. We already have the new Monitor Tunnel and 64 to Chesapeake...loop all traffic around Norfolk/Portsmouth area cuts out much of the problem.

HOW EXACTLY DID "WE VOTE NO" ON RAISING GAS TAXES? Submitted by TR on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 3:46 pm. How and when did that occur?

I THINK MY LAST TRIP TO Submitted by ethan2 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 4:02 pm. I think my last trip to Boston ran over $70 in tolls. NYC is always a good chunk of money as well (CBBT, Delaware x 2, Tunnel into Manhattan 1 way, etc.)

I LIVE IN PORTSMOUTH Submitted by sj32 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 9:28 am. I do not drive the tunnels unless I have to. I prefer to go the long way,to avoid the crazy drivers that are on 264. I think that there needs to be some way to collect a cash toll. This toll in the mail fee(fine) will leave a bad impression with anyone who is visiting our area. Or anyone who just needs to use it once in a while for a trip. I do not have the answer on how to do that; just my opinion. If

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 21 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

someone wants to put me on a panel and show me the specs I will help them figure that out. I feel the same way about the Jordan should be able to pay cash there too.

HUGE COSTLY PROJECT THAT DOES NOT SOLVE PROBLEM Submitted by ohmie on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 9:43 am. Has anyone bothered to take a good look at the planned project? Do you see where it solves any problems? All it does is connect several bottle-necks together. To solve the problems you have to add additional routes in other locations to disperse the traffic. Instead of the 16 miles of road/bridge/tunnel an easy solution is 6 miles of road bridge tunnel from Western Freeway (near Cedar Rd) to Crainey Island across river to Terminal Blvd. That six miles will split traffic by adding a crossing in a new location resulting in less traffic on MTT/DTT/HRBT. An immediate relief could be done by putting a Park and Ride on Crainey Island and run Ferry (people not cars) to and from the Navy Base and even ODU. Then use shuttle busses on base and campus

YOU TALKING TUNNELS OR LIGHT RAIL? Submitted by worldview23451 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 10:05 am. Just wondering

THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH Submitted by thomaslien on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 10:14 am. No one likes tolls, just like no likes taxes. However for those of you that oppose tolls what is your alternative for funding transportation projects? The traditional method was the gas tax which worked fine for years until cars and trucks dramatically improved in gas milage so you had a situation where you had more drivers but less money. Tolls helped bridge that gap. I split my time between Nova and Hampton Roads and in Nova I would pay $11 a day in tolls. The new transportation bill replaced the gas tax with sales tax which is smart but that alone won't pay for all the transportation needs. The number of cars on the road grows every year and roads don't pay for themselves. I am a conservitive who was taught that there is no free lunch.

THE ARMY CORE OF ENGINEERS MIGHT NOT BE TO HAPPY WITH THAT IDEA Submitted by ken on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 10:48 am. Since they own Craney Island, they'd have a say, and they'd probably say no. Not to mention that Craney Island is a giant pile of mud, not solid ground. Building anything on it, whether it be a road or parking lot, is not nearly as easy as it sounds. So there's a good chance the reason they didn't come up with a plan similar to yours is because it's not a very good one.

WHINE, WHINE, WHINE Submitted by doobrah on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 10:41 am. If the Gov hadn't entered into an unconstitutional agreement, then Virginia wouldn't be on the hook for possible damages or to pay a private company their guaranteed 13% profit. Let VDOT engineers at state salary (no profit) be paid to do the work, and they will spend their earnings in VA, not Australia. Raise the gas tax to pay for it, just like we pay for western VA roads; those folks out west shouldn't get a pass to pay for Tidewater roads. Stop whining, Connaughton -- y'all knew this from the get go. I would like to see an article going into how the MLK extension will remove the ramps to

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 22 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

London Blvd and dead-end County Street, basically sending everyone to High St. People are unaware of these potential traffic nightmares.

JUST A MESS Submitted by horace1105 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 11:00 am. The state screwed up and now they are crying crocodile tears. ERC should stop immediately with any more building or anything they are doing, incurring more expenses; if they don't then they should lose anything they put into this project as unfunded. I don't see any work stopping and they are going along as if nothing has happened; did our illustrious representatives assure them things will go in their favor. If this deal is not stopped in its tracks every time someone has to pay a toll they will be thinking about the republicans and how they made a mess of this whole situation. Catchphrases tend to stick to a person and tollbooth bob is the next one. Stop this deal and renegotiate one in favor of We The People...

IT'S A WORTHLESS PROJECT Submitted by thrillme on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 11:06 am. This was a worthless project to start with. On top of being a lousy deal, the project will do very little to fix the traffic problems at the Midtown and Downtown tunnels. Remember, the Norfolk side of the Midtown tunnel is a local street. The project doesn't address this at all. It will still be a bottleneck. It isn't even the worst traffic problem in Hampton Roads. Not even close. They should have at least picked something that would have an impact. How about a third crossing? Toll that road only. Of course Gov. Bob's buddies would want a guaranteed profit.

OH NO, THE STATE COULD Submitted by nelson on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 11:21 am. Oh no, the state could "lose" money. Since openly, honestly taking ever more of your money tends to have consequences, instead you must be opinion-molded into believing there's a problem.

TOLLS WILL HAPPEN Submitted by ChuckW698 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 11:59 am. Everyone forgets that a few years ago the state wanted to increase the gas tax to build and repair the tunnels, and interstates in our area. We were told at that time that if we did not do so, that the state would have to put tolls on our roads and tunnels to pay for them, in 5 or 6 years. "WE THE PEOPLE", at that time did not believe them, and now the time is up. As the saying goes, "now is the time to pay the piper". I don't want to pay them anymore than the next guy, but the money to pay for what needs to be done has to come from somewhere. For those who say build a bridge,our area is the worlds largest naval base, and for the ships to come and go, it would take a very high "Golden Gate" style bridge to be big enough to work in our area.

NOT EXACTLY Submitted by AA164 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 12:48 pm. We were told there would be no ADDITIONAL crossing without tolls. Numerous problems with the current deal: It's too expensive to the user. It affixes tolls on structures that aren't being renovated. It provides another tube which empties out into the same residential streets as the current tunnel.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 23 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

Are they redoing Hampton Blvd or Brambleton Blvd? No, so what is gained? Go through tunnel to hit the same red lights you hit now? It guarantees a 3.5% increase PER YEAR, regardless of economic reality, relying on the good graces of a private corporation to keep the tolls down. No legislative input that I know of to keep tolls reasonable. It guarantees an above market return on investor money. And might be unconstitutional. Great!

PIGS AND TOLLS Submitted by lork99 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 12:33 pm. For everyone who objects to this deal because a foreign company will make money, please go through your possessions and dispose of all foreign-made products. This may also include your automobile (that would be a bit ironic). Then come back here and start talking like a level-headed person. And don't forget to throw out your Smithfield hams.

I OBJECT TO IT BECAUSE THE Submitted by Esau on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 1:24 pm. I object to it because the state GUARANTEED 13% annual profits: GUARANTEED 3.5% toll increase ANNUALLY; GUARANTEED a no-compete clause that any new tunnels or bridges that compete with the Downtown and Midtown would require the state to REIMBURSE ERC for lost business; GUARANTEED that ERC did not have to build a second tunnel on the Downtown Tunnel; and GUARANTEED ALL OF THIS FOR 58 years ...... They GUARANTEED $60Billion in profits for a tunnel that costs $2billion to build. Are you for all those guarantees?

AND THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN Submitted by TxMike77 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 1:50 pm. is what?

WHAT OTHER SIDE MIKE Submitted by AA164 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 1:59 pm. No tunnel? Ask folks who use it if they prefer status quo to $2.00 a day, ever increasing for 58 years.

I SUPPOSE THAT IS ONE OF THE OTHER OPTIONS Submitted by TxMike77 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 2:27 pm. Although I do not see the status quo continuing for 58 years. No, I was asking about other options for building the tunnel. The poster seemed to think the plan was too expensive. I was just wondering what alternative proposals they liked, if any.

THE CLAMOR HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE HRBT Submitted by AA164 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 3:47 pm. What is amazing about this whole thing is the biggest problem is the HRBT and not the Midtown. The problem is I-64 between NN and Richmond. What do they do, propose a http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 24 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

tunnel addition spilling out onto Hampton Blvd and Brambleton Ave, with no significant improvements; and a toll road from Suffolk to Richmond, which business owners along 460 hate. So who benefits? The corporations who build them do and not the population of the peninsula and HR. Frankly the alternative is mass transportation (more people in fewer vehicles) and you can cut traffic in tunnels by a significant percentage during peak hours. The current plan does not alleviate the problem and is supremely expensive.

AMEN BROTHER - YOU NAILED IT Submitted by AA164 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 1:56 pm. This is just another example of government (not McDonnell, or Virginia particularly but government in general) monkeying around with capitalism. There is supposed to be a risk reward system that drives capitalism. Someone please explain this corporation's risk? In what world do these folks operate? A guaranteed profit, guaranteed income from tolls, non-compete clauses --- and who is on the pay line here -- predominantly the citizens of Portsmouth, Norfolk, and northern stretches of Chesapeake and Suffolk. The mixing bowl project was around $780 bn and the folks of NOVA pay how much in tolls? $150 mil to widen 6 miles of I-95 -- any tolls associated with that project? This is ridiculous on its face.

SORRY MILLION NOT BILLION Submitted by AA164 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 1:57 pm. Mixing bowl was approx 780 million.

EVERYONE GUARANTEED A PROFIT...HATE TO TELL YA.. Submitted by worldview23451 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 2:06 pm. Dominion Power is guaranteed 12.5% profit...your water bill has a built in profit margin...even our local taxi companies have a guaranteed profit margin to set rates by. Chesapeake Expressway has a guaranteed profit.(at 18.5% at the moment) Ches Bay Bridge Tunnel has a guaranteed profit to set rates to as well.

THE STATE SHOULD HAVE BUILT Submitted by Esau on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 2:18 pm. The state should have built this thing for $2billion. Now it will cost that to the state, and there will be NO tunnel.

AND YOU ARE GUARANTEED...... Submitted by rickh81501 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 2:37 pm. And you are guaranteed to have to pay for something (else) you already paid for and had use of for free. And you are also guaranteed to have even less $$$.

ACTUALLY Submitted by AA164 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 4:02 pm. VA Dominion Power is authorized 10.9% and has asked for 11.5%

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 25 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

The Chesapeake Expressway does not to my knowledge have a "guaranteed profit" -- they have a council that establishes toll rates, primarily to gouge the out of town users during peak weekends. But even in that case the money raised from the tolls goes towards other city priority roads projects. Taxi rates don't "guarantee" profits. They guarantee a level of reimburesement for miles driven.

So I don't know what you are trying to defend here -- to me you are definding the indefensible.

WHATEVER HAPPENED Submitted by nerts on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 1:31 pm. to selling bonds to finance a big project like this. Municipal bonds would have been a better way to go with the DOT contracting the work out, tolls permanently set at a much more reasonable level and interest payments would have been much lower than the guaranteed profit for this company.

Although being mostly republican, I think this idea was extremely poorly thought out, especially the fact that toll rates rise a minimum of 3.5% a year, the company is guaranteed 13.5% profit each year and the added costs of administration fees to non-EZpass tolls. The fee makes the $1.87 toll a $5.87 toll for one way and it will not take but a few years before the toll is so high no one can afford it. No one would complain about $1 tolls.

THE TOLLS THEY ARE A'COMING. Submitted by RedFlag47 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 1:35 pm. When the State Legislature meets in the winter the elections will be over and they will pass legislation to enact the tolls, the right way this time. Of course they will tell us that a toll is not a tax, to keep Grover Norquist happy. The EZPASS sensors will be in place this coming February and all will be well in the Commonwealth. I, for one, am fortunate that I do not have to use either tunnel on a daily basis, but I feel for the the victims of selective taxing.

SO MY $100 INVESTMENT INTO THE TOLL TUNNEL WOULD YIELD Submitted by ODUgarnetandgold on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 1:54 pm. $603,361.71 after an annualized 16.5% growth rate compounded annually for 57 years. Not even kicking in any more money. Where can I sign up?? The cart before the horse. Unreal that we will have to pay for it no matter what. Say goodbye to the 264 paving project.I am sure taxes will go up to pay for this screw up.I will say, the people will have to pay for the roads to be built somehow. I would rather see more taxes, than it go to the venture capitolists.(Unless my long lost uncle sits in the board)

WE'LL HAVE BOTH TOLLS AND GAS TAXES SOON Submitted by thastinger on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 1:53 pm. This is just the beginning of the port of va pet projects. Next comes the "third crossing" which will require the MMBT and HRBT to be tolled IOT make that a viable project. If you stay here long enough, you'll see every crossing tolled but that only takes care of the ports trucks. To address the craters in the roads, everyone will get a gas tax hike as well. PPP tunnels will have no mass transit for the next 58 years at least...it competes with the profits.

VPA? HARDLY! Submitted by satuja on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 3:41 pm.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 26 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

How can you possibly think these tolls benefit the VPA? When it costs $12 or whatever the planned toll is to move a container from Norfolk to Portsmouth, you think thats going to help the VPA/VIT stay competitive? All of those costs get factored in when customers/shiplines look at Virginia to decide if they want to use our Port.

VPA/VIT has a shortage of truckers as it is, adding these tolls will only further shrink their narrow profit margins and make them more scarce.

WHAT DOES HE MEAN 'IF' CALES DECISION STANDS, AS A SWORN Submitted by capt-carl-OV on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 2:01 pm. JURIST for the Commonwealth 'government by the People - for the People' Commonwealth of Virginia. Judge Cales is the Law. Connaughton is the Peter Principal in Action! and to the detriment of the Commonwealth.

"If Cales' decision stands, Connaughton said, it could call into question the legality of $3.4 billion worth of other public-private road projects around the state". ~ of which they should be revisited for their legality'

I DISAGREE WITH TOLLS BUT Submitted by andnowthereisme on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 2:14 pm. I disagree with tolls but either way we pay for this. The truly believe the tunnel projects will proceed and we will have to foot the bill one way or another. And now we will have to pay more due to legal fees the taxpayer will have to absorb. Furthermore, these same people that are fighting the tolls are most likely the same people that complain when they have to sit in traffic or such. Point is either way it is a loss for the citizens. Raise the gas tax and be done with it. With the already stupid fluctuations in gas prices a gas tax would barely be noticed.

MONEY MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND Submitted by lt60 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 2:19 pm. So it's not about whether it's fair or legal but we should allow an illegal act if not allowing it could cost money?

IT'S ASHAME THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY Submitted by RLS on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 2:35 pm. If only those who orchestrated this deal were responsible for paying off the debts that they unconstitutionally signed on too. Or go to jail would even be better.

THE TOLLS Submitted by margaretw94423 on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 3:15 pm. It's time for somebody to play the adult. Of course, what would the adult do?

THE POLITICIANS WANTED TO SHIFT THE BLAME. Submitted by JPOV on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 3:15 pm. They thought they wouldn't have to answer to the people and could blame toll increases on http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 27 of 28 Official: Tolls ruling could cost Va. up to $2B if upheld | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com 6/18/13 4:24 PM

someone other than themselves. To be a politician today all you have to know are two key phrases. 1. "It's not my fault. It's the other guy's fault" 2. "THEY didn't tell me or I would have done something about it."

That's the lot of them - Republican and Democrat alike.

BOTTOM LINE Submitted by jjackson on Tue, 06/18/2013 at 3:26 pm. Even if the state loses its appeal, he said, the General Assembly could "potentially rectify this legislatively"

Comment viewing options Threaded list - expanded Date - oldest first 300 comments per page Save settings Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes. Please note: Threaded comments work best if you view the oldest comments first.

MORE TRAFFIC - TRANSPORTATION STORIES MORE NEWS STORIES Traffic: I-64 lanes reopen after crash at Va. ABC agents make 300-gallon Military Highway moonshine bust Utility work to close part of road in Virginia Man dies while being put in Hampton police Beach custody VDOT improving markings for shoulder Woman seriously injured after being struck lanes on I-264 by VCU bus Light rail extension public meeting tonight Men get 30 days for wearing masks to in Norfolk Beach theater Coast Guard seeks comments on proposal Police seek man in three Va. Beach bank robberies

More articles from: Traffic - Transportation

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/06/official-tolls-ruling-could-cost-va-2b-if-upheld Page 28 of 28